April 17, 2025 • 24 mins
Corporate culture is a big buzzword these days, but for our guests it’s integral to how they do business. Bill Koenigsberg, CEO of Horizon Media, feels personally accountable for his employees, while Progressive Insurance CMO Remi Kent shares how the pandemic made her bring her values to the workplace during her time at 3M. WPP’s Christian Juhl shares how the power of culture was a differentiator in business at Group M, while General Motors’ Norm de Greve shares why as CMO of CVS he allowed for a locally-defined culture that varied across stores. Plus, former CMO of Ford Suzy Deering addresses work-life balance.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to Math and Magic. I'm Bob Pittman. On this show,
we've talked about the power of a compelling story, how
data driven technology can help businesses stay agile, and of course,
the beauty that results from the intersection of those concepts.
The Math and Magic. In today's bonus episode, I'm want
to focus on something a little different, corporate culture.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
The term corporate.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Culture became popular in the nineteen eighties and has resurfaced
a lot following the pandemic. I look at it as values, beliefs,
and behaviors that shape a work environment. Simply put, it's
the personality of a company that at its best increases morale,
drives innovation, and leads to employee retention. My guests today
stand out in their ability to create and maintain a
(00:53):
strong corporate culture. Take Bill Koeningsberg. Bill is the founder
and CEO of Horizon Media and Average Sizing, a marketing
firm that's been named one of ad Age's Best places
to work. His advice build a culture where business is personal.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Being a CEO and an owner, I think bears an enormous,
bigger responsibility because there is no one else to blame.
You can't blame the shareholders, you can't blame the stock market.
I have the responsibility of not just twenty five hundred employees,
but their families and their kids. You know, I feel
I have the responsibility for five to ten thousand people.
(01:34):
It's taught me about having a responsibility to everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You are not only a great manager, entrepreneur, business owner,
but you're also a professional. I mean, you understand media
and media buying. You're not some manager managing those professionals.
What happens when you have one of your really great
people at one point of view and you have another
and you've got all the votes and they've got one vote?
Maybe how do you deal with it? That's why I
(02:00):
love sparring. I'm saying that endearingly. I want people that
are going to make me feel uncomfortable. One of my
mantras around the agency is that I'm not feeling uncomfortable
enough these days. I am flexible, and I'm teachable, and
I am bendable. And if you ever get to a
point where you don't think you're teachable, you're in trouble.
And if you ever get to a point where you
think you arrived, you're going to get run over. And
(02:22):
I want to hire the smartest people around me who
can make me smarter and make me think differently. I
stand very strong on my opinions, and if someone is
strong enough to convince me that I'm wrong, I will
absolutely change what they have to convent you. You're not
going to roll over and say we let you do
the wrong thing.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
To let you do it.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And as a leader, and you know this, Bob, sometimes
because you have such a big rearview mirror and you've
seen every single problem, you will make a decision just
based on that experience quickly and firmly, before someone has
an opportunity to tell you their different point of view.
And I try to be very sensitive to that. Even
though I think I know the answer going in you
(02:59):
still you will have to open up your mind. I
was in a meeting two days ago that I was
not very happy about because someone was making me feel
very uncomfortable with what they were presenting to me. And
then I had to remember I had asked my people
to make me feel uncomfortable, and I had to say,
you know what, even though this is a surprise to
(03:21):
me and even though you're asking this from me, it's
making me feel really uncomfortable, and that's what I've asked
you to do. I appreciate you doing that, and I'm
going to trust you.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We talked about culture and overused word, but in your place,
I know your company and I've walked through your space.
You really do live the culture. How do you define
the culture?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Work and outside of work are becoming intermingled together in
today's twenty four to seven world. So we believe in
what we call the third bucket. You get your salary,
a bunch of people get bonuses, and we probably have
over one hundred different extracurricular activities that fall into the
third bucket. That's about traveling to a foreign country and
helping people who are less privileged than you are. It's
(04:04):
about building homes in different places. It's about a limitless
advancement program for women. It's about Upstart You and entrepreneurial
program for people who want to start their own businesses.
It's about having six or seven different diversity and inclusion
groups within my organization who can meet as a community.
It's about treating our people with respect. It's about giving
(04:24):
people a voice. It's about giving back. We built that
culture over the last thirty years, and that culture is
the heartbeat of our company.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So tell us a little bit, because I know what
relates to your culture about your physical space, the physical
work space you have for those people who have not
seen it, such special space with this great outdoor rooftop.
Talk a little bit about how you imagined that space
and what you intended for to do for the company.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Early on in my journey, I was worried about survival,
but I couldn't afford it a great work environment. I
actually didn't think it was important, believe it or not.
In two thousand and eight. In two thousand and nine,
when the world started to fall apart, my leases were
coming up, and I was in four buildings in New
York City, and I started to feel that environment started
to mean a hell of a lot more to people
(05:12):
and how people wanted to work from a community perspective.
I could have renewed my leases in three or four
different buildings in the city, and we decided to look
around and we found this amazing, beautiful old building. But
then I got the price tag of what it was
going to cost to completely renovate and build the office
of the future. It was a thirty million dollar investment,
(05:33):
and I decided to take the plunge. That was another
big fork in the road, and we built out offices
with beautiful terraces and a theater and a health center
and a big gym and a yoga studio, in sleep
pods and meditation rooms. That's the environment that we created.
And I have to tell you, Bob, it paid off
tenfold from a retention perspective, from a new business perspective,
(05:56):
from attracting new employees into our space, to someone like
Taylor Swift wanting to do a concert up there, to
film companies left and right coming in and wanting to
film in our space, commercial production in our space. It
was one of the best decisions I ever made. And
the thought process all along was to build a home,
not an office, but to build a home. And I
(06:19):
think that's what it's become.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Like.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Bill Christian Jewel knows a thing or two about motivating
his employees. During his time as global CEO of the
media investment company Group In, Christian oversaw thirty five thousand
employees worldwide. Before he moved to Group M, he worked
at companies like Microsoft and Publicists, but it was at
Essence that he learned a lesson about corporate culture that
he carries with him today.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
Going into run Essence, which the time is about three
hundred people, really shaped my view on culture and the
power of culture as a true economic differentiator for a business.
Tell then people talk about culture. They put mission revision
on the walls and you see him around your office
and okay, great. But the very first management meeting I
had with the three founders of Essence, we run it
out of the little room and soho offts in New York.
(07:07):
And I was already for the job. I started as
a us CEO only, so I built these plans and
growth targets and key accounts and management team structures and
what we were going to do and technology implementations. And
I walk into this room and they're already there, and
there are four chairs facing each other with no table
(07:27):
in between, no screens, a little coffee bar, and Matt Isaac's,
who was the SEEO at the times, has had a seat.
And before you can even really the same name, Okay, I'm
ready to show you guys what I think the North American.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Plan should be.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
And he goes, no, no, no, We've got three hours just
to talk about how you're doing what we think this
thing might look like and feel like over time.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I don't know if you've ever done that.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Really, just sit there with no table in a square
with four people that you don't really know that well
while you're trying to oppress them about your knowledge of
the business or what have you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
But it's extremely uncomfortable.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
There's no barriers, and there was no preconceived notion, and
we sat there and sort of hashed out an understanding
of what essence was and how we wanted to treat
each other as a management team, and how we wanted
that to show up in our people. And I sum
it up now and I've brought it to group them
as well. It's assuming positive intent at every turn, and
I want every day to group them to feel like
(08:17):
this is the place where their expression is welcome, or
creative ideas are welcome, where they can disagree with management,
where they can speak up, and where they're trusted, and
where it's an environment of positive intent.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
When you took over, you flew something like over two
hundred thousand miles to meet people all across group in
Were you doing those kinds of meetings like you did
with the founders of Essence, where you just sat and
talked as opposed to show me your presentation.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Yeah, I had an odd entrance point into Group them, right,
we sold Essence into it. So I was a earnout CEO,
So I was sort of a witness to the management
team for three years. When I took over the job
about three years ago. Now, one of the first things
I did was just get the manager team together, and
I said, we're going to do things differently. We're going
to trust each other, We're going to listen to each other.
(09:05):
We're going to build a strategy together, and we're going
to share that strategy with all thirty five thousand employees
so that they know what the purpose of Group M is,
what the purpose of the agencies are, how we can
count in our technology division. Up until that point, Group
M was a collection of companies in so trying to
sit down and talk about the future of this industry.
(09:26):
And media is becoming technology driven. It looks more like
software than it looks like manual planning, and in media deals,
we're going to get really good in automation and understanding technology,
and that means investing hundreds and minds of dollars in
doing it once, not doing it in sixty different methods
with different partners in every market around the world. And
getting people aligned to that type of thinking requires a
(09:49):
singularity of culture and understanding of how we're going to
hold each other to account.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
It was essential for Christian to establish lined culture throughout
his organization, but of course there's more than one way
to approach company culture today. Norm degrev is the CMO
of General Motors. When I spoke with him on Mathemagic,
he was CMO at CVS and shared a different vision
for getting thousands of employees.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
On the same page, we talk about purpose a lot
related to will it help you sell more products? The
big surprise is how much it's helped in recruiting. How
much people want to be part of that. They want
to be part of something that is making a difference
in the world. They want to participate in that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
At all levels. At all levels, you've got is it
two hundred thousand employees now three three hundred thousand? How
do you market your mission internally? I mean, you've got
this fantastic story now, but as you just talked about marketing,
they're not going to learn it themselves. Somebody's got to
help them. How do you do it?
Speaker 7 (10:55):
It's got to be in everything to do. So if
you go to our website or you do anything to
learn about CVS, you are going to see the purpose
right away, and you're going to hear about the actions
that we're taking about our desire to have a meaningful
difference and impact in the world. Then when you come
in from the first day, we've restructured everything. The onboarding
is that way. All of our executive meetings are that way.
(11:15):
You hear about this again and again and again, and
it comes into the culture, and then those people when
they're talking to others, they use the same words. It
is really amazing to me in some ways what a
brand for a company was to consumers in a way
a purposes to employees and recruiting. You know, I could
go work lots of places, but this one feels a
little different and a little better because it's got that purpose.
(11:37):
I could buy lots of things, but this one feels
a little different and better because it's got a brand.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Do you do an internal telecast, podcast, town hall meeting?
What are your techniques to get it out?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (11:46):
So the challenge that we have is the dispersion of
our employees. We have ten thousand locations. You know, Disney's
an amazing company, but they have two locations, and so
what they can do in two locations is just fundamentally
different than what we can do in ten.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Thous one hundred and fifty eight locations. Than we thought
we had a lot, I'm suddenly feeling very small, and so.
Speaker 7 (12:03):
You appreciate though, the problem of how do you get
everybody to think the same way and be on the
same page. We've done podcasting to all the employee base,
We've done video blogs. We are changing everything in our
stores so that in set of the standard communications that
come down that are quite dry, they'll pick up a
device of the moment they come in, and that device
will be preloaded with stuff that's more site sound in
(12:23):
motion for them to understand what we're all about. And
then there's the kind of the standard big town halls
and stuff like that. General Stan McCrystal came in to
talk to us. At one point he ran Jaysak in
the Middle East with special Forces, but he was talking
about how they were structured in a very hierarchical way,
exactly the way he should be to win a war traditionally,
and they were fighting an army that was structured in
(12:46):
a very dispersed sort of way, and they had to
change everything they did. And I still remember that because
that's exactly what we are. We're so dispersed, so you
can't really operate in a hierarchical way if you want
them to change. And this is where again you get
back to purpose. You have to know the why, and
they have to know the why, and then you have
to trust their judgment to make the right decisions in
each of those locations.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
We'll be right back after a quick break. Welcome back
to today's bonus episode of Math and Magic. About a year
after I started this podcast, the world as we know
it changed. COVID nineteen forced everyone from the biggest Fortune
(13:29):
five hundred company to the smallest mom and pop to
rethink their business strategy. Times like that can deal a
major blow to company culture. There's so much uncertainty, but
there's also opportunity at iHeart. COVID opened up new ways
to connect with local communities, a chance to use radio
and podcasting to make people feel less alone, and unprecedented
(13:50):
growth in the audio space. For my next guest. The
pandemic provided an opportunity to overhaul corporate culture. Today, Remy
Kent is the CMO Atrest of Insurance. In twenty twenty,
she was just starting as the global Chief Marketing Officer
Threems Consumer Business Group, task with marketing three MS life
saving products. At the height of the global pandemic.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
All of us were handling work and home and everything
was melting together.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
People were scared.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I think people were going through dramatic changes dependent upon
what their home lives were. A lot of my people
have young kids that they had to manage, and so
my leadership style, I would say, I consider myself a
human centered leader.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I had to really really.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Make sure that I showed up that way, and that
was making myself more accessible. I tried to be as
clear as possible. I tried to remove busy work or
excess work that was focused.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I tried to just have real.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Conversations with people and check in and let them know.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
That it was okay not to be okay and be relatable.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
That was really important, and so I think that's how
my leadership shifted. I think people started to know more
about me, and I started to know more about others.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think all of us suddenly found ourselves as a
work from home company, which most of us never imagined
we would do. What surprised you about it?
Speaker 5 (15:30):
What surprised me the most was that for me, my
humanity came out more than ever through the pandemic. And
maybe it was the combination of COVID, but also what
was happening with George Floyd and kind of the awakening
that the world was having to racism. I think I
(15:52):
was more myself than I had ever been and bringing
my full self to work.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Do you think as a leader that you felt before
this pandemic that you had to sort of suppress your humanity,
put a face on it, put a mask on, and
that somehow the pandemic changed that.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I think what.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
The pandemic did was, of course, when there is something
that is a threat to you or your family or
your well being, you really think about what's important.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And for me, love is important.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
People are important, and so that's what brought that to
the forefront for me. And I just think that as
I've matured as a leader, I know that to be
most effective in the magic that I bring to my work,
the more I can be more human, be more myself,
(16:49):
accept the good and the flaws, and fully embrace myself
and others. Just the better work I do and the
more high performance teams I built.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You talked about George Floyd earlier, the other big major
event of twenty twenty, all of America really came face
to face with the issue of racial injustice. You're a
black woman in a major American corporation. How did you
use your position at three M to make a difference
and how did it affect you?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
This has been interesting and frankly continues to be an
interesting daily challenge.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So your question about how did I use my position?
Number one?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
I think I have a responsibility as a black woman
to be the voice for others that maybe don't feel
heard or don't have the ability to speak up, especially
in corporate America, as to how racial injustice shows up for.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Them every day in their workplace.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
Really using those moments to listen first hear kind of
what our workforce is saying, and making sure that we're
talking to those underrepresented people in the workforce, black and
Hispanic and really getting their true experience and being willing
(18:16):
to listen even when it I think when you talk
about racism often the word just evokes rejection, right, people
want to say, well, I'm not racist, and so that
defense often gets in the way of hearing real life
experiences for people. So what I use my role to
(18:40):
do is to definitely speak up myself and then be
a conduit for others then actively saying what are we
going to do about it? So I sit on my
CEO advisory counsel and really really helping to provide input
(19:01):
as to corporate America has a responsibility here and we
need to get our house in order first, right, and
so what does that look like? We are we clear
on the data, are we disaggregating the data? Are we
publishing the data and making ourselves accountable and so really
(19:24):
being a partner in that and frankly being a safe
place for people to bounce things off of that. You know,
there's the fear of saying the wrong thing, and I
wanted to be a person who could have that exchange
and hopefully that person walk away better educated. And so
(19:47):
it's been tiring, but it has been These conversations have
to happen, and I think it's the only thing that
leads to change.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Let's talk about some advice you have as a senior
corporate executive, how do you build corporate cultures to support
your brand and marketing goals?
Speaker 8 (20:07):
Bob, This is a good question, and it's an important one,
and I am in the midst of it. I think
building culture is one of the most important things we
can do as a leader, and I don't know that
there is a recipe for it, but I think it
starts with being the culture that you want to see
(20:29):
and really making sure that that culture is set. But
then also, I hate to use the word governance, but
I'm going to use it rewarding and recognizing those who
exhibit the cultural attributes that you are setting forward and
really really bringing visibility to those behaviors.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Broadly, like Remy, Susie Dearing understand that's that a strong
corporate culture comes from leading by example. Today, Susie serves
on the board as some of the most recognizable brands
in the world. Before that, she was the global CMO
at Ford Motor Company. She says building corporate culture can
(21:13):
be a challenge because she puts it, there are so
many different flavors to it.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
I think the part for me and my philosophy is
I need to be true to my leadership style. And
I want to ensure that I'm building an organization and
a team that doesn't lead from fear, but they lead
from opportunity. I want to ensure that there's a safe
place to where there can be very honest conversations, because
(21:40):
one thing I will tell you that has always been
very evident to me is in order for there to
be transformation, you have to have respect, and you have
to have transparency, and you have to make sure that
everybody feels that they're aligned. And I may not be
able to influence that across the entire corporation, but if
I can establish that within my own team and influence
(22:01):
the teams around me, then great. But I won't falter
from really making sure that I can at least establish
that piece of it that I can have direct influence over.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
How about diversity, what's the special power that comes to
a company from a strong focus on diversity and inclusion?
Speaker 9 (22:20):
Well, it becomes a secret power because I mean, if
you imagine that you can bring in diverse thinking and
diverse people and cultures and backgrounds and really apply it
differently to you, to one just you personally, it makes
you better. It makes you a better leader.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It makes you a better human.
Speaker 9 (22:41):
I know there's so many stats out there about the
more diverse the leadership team is, the more profit the
company sees. Candidly, I feel like that we still treat
it as a pet project, and I don't think that's
what it is. It's part of your strategy and it's
part of how you just operate, think and perform.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I know you put a great value on family. How
do you manage that work life balance?
Speaker 9 (23:05):
Well, I first realized that it isn't balancing if I
was striving for something impossible that was never gonna going
to help. I do look at it as making sure
that there's as much harmony and that I can live
up to the priorities that I set for myself. And
I'm very straightforward with my team about that and to
(23:27):
those that I work with that my priorities are God, family,
and work in that order. If the first two things
get out of whack, the third thing gets really messed up.
And so as long as I can keep myself honest
to that, and I expect even my team members and
my family to hold me accountable to those priorities, that
becomes my guidepost. Doesn't mean that there aren't long hours.
(23:47):
There doesn't mean that there's not moments that I have
to pull away from the family to take care of something.
It's just that I do that with respect and understanding
as much as I possibly can. Can't tell you get
it right all the time by any means, but you know,
I also expect that I get back those moments and
being present when I am with my family, because if
I'm doing that for work, then it's at least expected
(24:08):
that I can make sure that I'm doing that back
for my family.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That's it for this bonus episode of Math and Magic.
I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening
to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. The
show is created and hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks
to Sydney Rosenblut for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent,
which is no small feat. The Math and Magic team
is Jessica Crime Chitch and Bahath Fraser. Our executive producers
are Ali Perry and Nikki Etoor. Until next time,
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to Math and Magic. I'm Bob Pittman. On this show,
we've talked about the power of a compelling story, how
data driven technology can help businesses stay agile, and of course,
the beauty that results from the intersection of those concepts.
The Math and Magic. In today's bonus episode, I'm want
to focus on something a little different, corporate culture.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
The term corporate.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Culture became popular in the nineteen eighties and has resurfaced
a lot following the pandemic. I look at it as values, beliefs,
and behaviors that shape a work environment. Simply put, it's
the personality of a company that at its best increases morale,
drives innovation, and leads to employee retention. My guests today
stand out in their ability to create and maintain a
(00:53):
strong corporate culture. Take Bill Koeningsberg. Bill is the founder
and CEO of Horizon Media and Average Sizing, a marketing
firm that's been named one of ad Age's Best places
to work. His advice build a culture where business is personal.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Being a CEO and an owner, I think bears an enormous,
bigger responsibility because there is no one else to blame.
You can't blame the shareholders, you can't blame the stock market.
I have the responsibility of not just twenty five hundred employees,
but their families and their kids. You know, I feel
I have the responsibility for five to ten thousand people.
(01:34):
It's taught me about having a responsibility to everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You are not only a great manager, entrepreneur, business owner,
but you're also a professional. I mean, you understand media
and media buying. You're not some manager managing those professionals.
What happens when you have one of your really great
people at one point of view and you have another
and you've got all the votes and they've got one vote?
Maybe how do you deal with it? That's why I
(02:00):
love sparring. I'm saying that endearingly. I want people that
are going to make me feel uncomfortable. One of my
mantras around the agency is that I'm not feeling uncomfortable
enough these days. I am flexible, and I'm teachable, and
I am bendable. And if you ever get to a
point where you don't think you're teachable, you're in trouble.
And if you ever get to a point where you
think you arrived, you're going to get run over. And
(02:22):
I want to hire the smartest people around me who
can make me smarter and make me think differently. I
stand very strong on my opinions, and if someone is
strong enough to convince me that I'm wrong, I will
absolutely change what they have to convent you. You're not
going to roll over and say we let you do
the wrong thing.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
To let you do it.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And as a leader, and you know this, Bob, sometimes
because you have such a big rearview mirror and you've
seen every single problem, you will make a decision just
based on that experience quickly and firmly, before someone has
an opportunity to tell you their different point of view.
And I try to be very sensitive to that. Even
though I think I know the answer going in you
(02:59):
still you will have to open up your mind. I
was in a meeting two days ago that I was
not very happy about because someone was making me feel
very uncomfortable with what they were presenting to me. And
then I had to remember I had asked my people
to make me feel uncomfortable, and I had to say,
you know what, even though this is a surprise to
(03:21):
me and even though you're asking this from me, it's
making me feel really uncomfortable, and that's what I've asked
you to do. I appreciate you doing that, and I'm
going to trust you.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We talked about culture and overused word, but in your place,
I know your company and I've walked through your space.
You really do live the culture. How do you define
the culture?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Work and outside of work are becoming intermingled together in
today's twenty four to seven world. So we believe in
what we call the third bucket. You get your salary,
a bunch of people get bonuses, and we probably have
over one hundred different extracurricular activities that fall into the
third bucket. That's about traveling to a foreign country and
helping people who are less privileged than you are. It's
(04:04):
about building homes in different places. It's about a limitless
advancement program for women. It's about Upstart You and entrepreneurial
program for people who want to start their own businesses.
It's about having six or seven different diversity and inclusion
groups within my organization who can meet as a community.
It's about treating our people with respect. It's about giving
(04:24):
people a voice. It's about giving back. We built that
culture over the last thirty years, and that culture is
the heartbeat of our company.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So tell us a little bit, because I know what
relates to your culture about your physical space, the physical
work space you have for those people who have not
seen it, such special space with this great outdoor rooftop.
Talk a little bit about how you imagined that space
and what you intended for to do for the company.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Early on in my journey, I was worried about survival,
but I couldn't afford it a great work environment. I
actually didn't think it was important, believe it or not.
In two thousand and eight. In two thousand and nine,
when the world started to fall apart, my leases were
coming up, and I was in four buildings in New
York City, and I started to feel that environment started
to mean a hell of a lot more to people
(05:12):
and how people wanted to work from a community perspective.
I could have renewed my leases in three or four
different buildings in the city, and we decided to look
around and we found this amazing, beautiful old building. But
then I got the price tag of what it was
going to cost to completely renovate and build the office
of the future. It was a thirty million dollar investment,
(05:33):
and I decided to take the plunge. That was another
big fork in the road, and we built out offices
with beautiful terraces and a theater and a health center
and a big gym and a yoga studio, in sleep
pods and meditation rooms. That's the environment that we created.
And I have to tell you, Bob, it paid off
tenfold from a retention perspective, from a new business perspective,
(05:56):
from attracting new employees into our space, to someone like
Taylor Swift wanting to do a concert up there, to
film companies left and right coming in and wanting to
film in our space, commercial production in our space. It
was one of the best decisions I ever made. And
the thought process all along was to build a home,
not an office, but to build a home. And I
(06:19):
think that's what it's become.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Like.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Bill Christian Jewel knows a thing or two about motivating
his employees. During his time as global CEO of the
media investment company Group In, Christian oversaw thirty five thousand
employees worldwide. Before he moved to Group M, he worked
at companies like Microsoft and Publicists, but it was at
Essence that he learned a lesson about corporate culture that
he carries with him today.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
Going into run Essence, which the time is about three
hundred people, really shaped my view on culture and the
power of culture as a true economic differentiator for a business.
Tell then people talk about culture. They put mission revision
on the walls and you see him around your office
and okay, great. But the very first management meeting I
had with the three founders of Essence, we run it
out of the little room and soho offts in New York.
(07:07):
And I was already for the job. I started as
a us CEO only, so I built these plans and
growth targets and key accounts and management team structures and
what we were going to do and technology implementations. And
I walk into this room and they're already there, and
there are four chairs facing each other with no table
(07:27):
in between, no screens, a little coffee bar, and Matt Isaac's,
who was the SEEO at the times, has had a seat.
And before you can even really the same name, Okay, I'm
ready to show you guys what I think the North American.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Plan should be.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
And he goes, no, no, no, We've got three hours just
to talk about how you're doing what we think this
thing might look like and feel like over time.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I don't know if you've ever done that.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Really, just sit there with no table in a square
with four people that you don't really know that well
while you're trying to oppress them about your knowledge of
the business or what have you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
But it's extremely uncomfortable.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
There's no barriers, and there was no preconceived notion, and
we sat there and sort of hashed out an understanding
of what essence was and how we wanted to treat
each other as a management team, and how we wanted
that to show up in our people. And I sum
it up now and I've brought it to group them
as well. It's assuming positive intent at every turn, and
I want every day to group them to feel like
(08:17):
this is the place where their expression is welcome, or
creative ideas are welcome, where they can disagree with management,
where they can speak up, and where they're trusted, and
where it's an environment of positive intent.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
When you took over, you flew something like over two
hundred thousand miles to meet people all across group in
Were you doing those kinds of meetings like you did
with the founders of Essence, where you just sat and
talked as opposed to show me your presentation.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Yeah, I had an odd entrance point into Group them, right,
we sold Essence into it. So I was a earnout CEO,
So I was sort of a witness to the management
team for three years. When I took over the job
about three years ago. Now, one of the first things
I did was just get the manager team together, and
I said, we're going to do things differently. We're going
to trust each other, We're going to listen to each other.
(09:05):
We're going to build a strategy together, and we're going
to share that strategy with all thirty five thousand employees
so that they know what the purpose of Group M is,
what the purpose of the agencies are, how we can
count in our technology division. Up until that point, Group
M was a collection of companies in so trying to
sit down and talk about the future of this industry.
(09:26):
And media is becoming technology driven. It looks more like
software than it looks like manual planning, and in media deals,
we're going to get really good in automation and understanding technology,
and that means investing hundreds and minds of dollars in
doing it once, not doing it in sixty different methods
with different partners in every market around the world. And
getting people aligned to that type of thinking requires a
(09:49):
singularity of culture and understanding of how we're going to
hold each other to account.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
It was essential for Christian to establish lined culture throughout
his organization, but of course there's more than one way
to approach company culture today. Norm degrev is the CMO
of General Motors. When I spoke with him on Mathemagic,
he was CMO at CVS and shared a different vision
for getting thousands of employees.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
On the same page, we talk about purpose a lot
related to will it help you sell more products? The
big surprise is how much it's helped in recruiting. How
much people want to be part of that. They want
to be part of something that is making a difference
in the world. They want to participate in that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
At all levels. At all levels, you've got is it
two hundred thousand employees now three three hundred thousand? How
do you market your mission internally? I mean, you've got
this fantastic story now, but as you just talked about marketing,
they're not going to learn it themselves. Somebody's got to
help them. How do you do it?
Speaker 7 (10:55):
It's got to be in everything to do. So if
you go to our website or you do anything to
learn about CVS, you are going to see the purpose
right away, and you're going to hear about the actions
that we're taking about our desire to have a meaningful
difference and impact in the world. Then when you come
in from the first day, we've restructured everything. The onboarding
is that way. All of our executive meetings are that way.
(11:15):
You hear about this again and again and again, and
it comes into the culture, and then those people when
they're talking to others, they use the same words. It
is really amazing to me in some ways what a
brand for a company was to consumers in a way
a purposes to employees and recruiting. You know, I could
go work lots of places, but this one feels a
little different and a little better because it's got that purpose.
(11:37):
I could buy lots of things, but this one feels
a little different and better because it's got a brand.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Do you do an internal telecast, podcast, town hall meeting?
What are your techniques to get it out?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (11:46):
So the challenge that we have is the dispersion of
our employees. We have ten thousand locations. You know, Disney's
an amazing company, but they have two locations, and so
what they can do in two locations is just fundamentally
different than what we can do in ten.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Thous one hundred and fifty eight locations. Than we thought
we had a lot, I'm suddenly feeling very small, and so.
Speaker 7 (12:03):
You appreciate though, the problem of how do you get
everybody to think the same way and be on the
same page. We've done podcasting to all the employee base,
We've done video blogs. We are changing everything in our
stores so that in set of the standard communications that
come down that are quite dry, they'll pick up a
device of the moment they come in, and that device
will be preloaded with stuff that's more site sound in
(12:23):
motion for them to understand what we're all about. And
then there's the kind of the standard big town halls
and stuff like that. General Stan McCrystal came in to
talk to us. At one point he ran Jaysak in
the Middle East with special Forces, but he was talking
about how they were structured in a very hierarchical way,
exactly the way he should be to win a war traditionally,
and they were fighting an army that was structured in
(12:46):
a very dispersed sort of way, and they had to
change everything they did. And I still remember that because
that's exactly what we are. We're so dispersed, so you
can't really operate in a hierarchical way if you want
them to change. And this is where again you get
back to purpose. You have to know the why, and
they have to know the why, and then you have
to trust their judgment to make the right decisions in
each of those locations.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
We'll be right back after a quick break. Welcome back
to today's bonus episode of Math and Magic. About a year
after I started this podcast, the world as we know
it changed. COVID nineteen forced everyone from the biggest Fortune
(13:29):
five hundred company to the smallest mom and pop to
rethink their business strategy. Times like that can deal a
major blow to company culture. There's so much uncertainty, but
there's also opportunity at iHeart. COVID opened up new ways
to connect with local communities, a chance to use radio
and podcasting to make people feel less alone, and unprecedented
(13:50):
growth in the audio space. For my next guest. The
pandemic provided an opportunity to overhaul corporate culture. Today, Remy
Kent is the CMO Atrest of Insurance. In twenty twenty,
she was just starting as the global Chief Marketing Officer
Threems Consumer Business Group, task with marketing three MS life
saving products. At the height of the global pandemic.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
All of us were handling work and home and everything
was melting together.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
People were scared.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I think people were going through dramatic changes dependent upon
what their home lives were. A lot of my people
have young kids that they had to manage, and so
my leadership style, I would say, I consider myself a
human centered leader.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I had to really really.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Make sure that I showed up that way, and that
was making myself more accessible. I tried to be as
clear as possible. I tried to remove busy work or
excess work that was focused.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I tried to just have real.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Conversations with people and check in and let them know.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
That it was okay not to be okay and be relatable.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
That was really important, and so I think that's how
my leadership shifted. I think people started to know more
about me, and I started to know more about others.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think all of us suddenly found ourselves as a
work from home company, which most of us never imagined
we would do. What surprised you about it?
Speaker 5 (15:30):
What surprised me the most was that for me, my
humanity came out more than ever through the pandemic. And
maybe it was the combination of COVID, but also what
was happening with George Floyd and kind of the awakening
that the world was having to racism. I think I
(15:52):
was more myself than I had ever been and bringing
my full self to work.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Do you think as a leader that you felt before
this pandemic that you had to sort of suppress your humanity,
put a face on it, put a mask on, and
that somehow the pandemic changed that.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I think what.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
The pandemic did was, of course, when there is something
that is a threat to you or your family or
your well being, you really think about what's important.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And for me, love is important.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
People are important, and so that's what brought that to
the forefront for me. And I just think that as
I've matured as a leader, I know that to be
most effective in the magic that I bring to my work,
the more I can be more human, be more myself,
(16:49):
accept the good and the flaws, and fully embrace myself
and others. Just the better work I do and the
more high performance teams I built.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You talked about George Floyd earlier, the other big major
event of twenty twenty, all of America really came face
to face with the issue of racial injustice. You're a
black woman in a major American corporation. How did you
use your position at three M to make a difference
and how did it affect you?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
This has been interesting and frankly continues to be an
interesting daily challenge.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So your question about how did I use my position?
Number one?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
I think I have a responsibility as a black woman
to be the voice for others that maybe don't feel
heard or don't have the ability to speak up, especially
in corporate America, as to how racial injustice shows up for.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Them every day in their workplace.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
Really using those moments to listen first hear kind of
what our workforce is saying, and making sure that we're
talking to those underrepresented people in the workforce, black and
Hispanic and really getting their true experience and being willing
(18:16):
to listen even when it I think when you talk
about racism often the word just evokes rejection, right, people
want to say, well, I'm not racist, and so that
defense often gets in the way of hearing real life
experiences for people. So what I use my role to
(18:40):
do is to definitely speak up myself and then be
a conduit for others then actively saying what are we
going to do about it? So I sit on my
CEO advisory counsel and really really helping to provide input
(19:01):
as to corporate America has a responsibility here and we
need to get our house in order first, right, and
so what does that look like? We are we clear
on the data, are we disaggregating the data? Are we
publishing the data and making ourselves accountable and so really
(19:24):
being a partner in that and frankly being a safe
place for people to bounce things off of that. You know,
there's the fear of saying the wrong thing, and I
wanted to be a person who could have that exchange
and hopefully that person walk away better educated. And so
(19:47):
it's been tiring, but it has been These conversations have
to happen, and I think it's the only thing that
leads to change.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Let's talk about some advice you have as a senior
corporate executive, how do you build corporate cultures to support
your brand and marketing goals?
Speaker 8 (20:07):
Bob, This is a good question, and it's an important one,
and I am in the midst of it. I think
building culture is one of the most important things we
can do as a leader, and I don't know that
there is a recipe for it, but I think it
starts with being the culture that you want to see
(20:29):
and really making sure that that culture is set. But
then also, I hate to use the word governance, but
I'm going to use it rewarding and recognizing those who
exhibit the cultural attributes that you are setting forward and
really really bringing visibility to those behaviors.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Broadly, like Remy, Susie Dearing understand that's that a strong
corporate culture comes from leading by example. Today, Susie serves
on the board as some of the most recognizable brands
in the world. Before that, she was the global CMO
at Ford Motor Company. She says building corporate culture can
(21:13):
be a challenge because she puts it, there are so
many different flavors to it.
Speaker 9 (21:18):
I think the part for me and my philosophy is
I need to be true to my leadership style. And
I want to ensure that I'm building an organization and
a team that doesn't lead from fear, but they lead
from opportunity. I want to ensure that there's a safe
place to where there can be very honest conversations, because
(21:40):
one thing I will tell you that has always been
very evident to me is in order for there to
be transformation, you have to have respect, and you have
to have transparency, and you have to make sure that
everybody feels that they're aligned. And I may not be
able to influence that across the entire corporation, but if
I can establish that within my own team and influence
(22:01):
the teams around me, then great. But I won't falter
from really making sure that I can at least establish
that piece of it that I can have direct influence over.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
How about diversity, what's the special power that comes to
a company from a strong focus on diversity and inclusion?
Speaker 9 (22:20):
Well, it becomes a secret power because I mean, if
you imagine that you can bring in diverse thinking and
diverse people and cultures and backgrounds and really apply it
differently to you, to one just you personally, it makes
you better. It makes you a better leader.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It makes you a better human.
Speaker 9 (22:41):
I know there's so many stats out there about the
more diverse the leadership team is, the more profit the
company sees. Candidly, I feel like that we still treat
it as a pet project, and I don't think that's
what it is. It's part of your strategy and it's
part of how you just operate, think and perform.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I know you put a great value on family. How
do you manage that work life balance?
Speaker 9 (23:05):
Well, I first realized that it isn't balancing if I
was striving for something impossible that was never gonna going
to help. I do look at it as making sure
that there's as much harmony and that I can live
up to the priorities that I set for myself. And
I'm very straightforward with my team about that and to
(23:27):
those that I work with that my priorities are God, family,
and work in that order. If the first two things
get out of whack, the third thing gets really messed up.
And so as long as I can keep myself honest
to that, and I expect even my team members and
my family to hold me accountable to those priorities, that
becomes my guidepost. Doesn't mean that there aren't long hours.
(23:47):
There doesn't mean that there's not moments that I have
to pull away from the family to take care of something.
It's just that I do that with respect and understanding
as much as I possibly can. Can't tell you get
it right all the time by any means, but you know,
I also expect that I get back those moments and
being present when I am with my family, because if
I'm doing that for work, then it's at least expected
(24:08):
that I can make sure that I'm doing that back
for my family.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That's it for this bonus episode of Math and Magic.
I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening
to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. The
show is created and hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks
to Sydney Rosenblut for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent,
which is no small feat. The Math and Magic team
is Jessica Crime Chitch and Bahath Fraser. Our executive producers
are Ali Perry and Nikki Etoor. Until next time,
Host
Bob Pittman
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