October 3, 2023 • 19 mins
Face cream, a Bristol liquor business, and a lifelong reverence for the elderly are just a few of the rather ordinary and disparate inspirations Paul McCartney brought together in the creation of a masterpiece: “Eleanor Rigby.” In this episode, McCartney and Paul Muldoon tease out the song's lyrical inspirations and discuss the influence a Bernard Herrmann score for a Hitchcock film had on the lead single from 1966’s “Revolver."
“McCartney: A Life in Lyrics” is a co-production between iHeart Media, MPL and Pushkin Industries.
The series was produced by Pejk Malinovski and Sara McCrea; written by Sara McCrea; edited by Dan O’Donnell and Sophie Crane; mastered by Jason Gambrell with sound design by Pejk Malinovski. The series is executive produced by Leital Molad, Justin Richmond, Lee Eastman, Scott Rodger and Paul McCartney.
Thanks to Lee Eastman, Richard Ewbank, Scott Rodger, Aoife Corbett and Steve Ithell.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, everyone, it's Paul muldoon. Before we get to this episode,
I wanted to let you know that you can binge
all twelve episodes of McCartney A Life and Lyrics right
now ad free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find
Pushkin Plus on the McCartney A Life and Lyrics Show,
(00:40):
pedge in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm, slash Plus.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh my god, I wanted to become a person who
wrote songs, and I wanted to be someone who's life
was in music.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm Paul muldoun. I'm a poet, a lover of not
only the lyric poem, but the song lyric. Over the
past several years, I've got to spend time with one
of the greatest songwriters of our era.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
And will you look at me, it's happened.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I'm going on too. I'm actually a performer. I'm actually
I'm a songwriter. My god, Well that that crypta homie.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
That is sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a
book looking at the lyrics of more than one hundred
and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours
of our conversations. This is McCartney a life in lyrics,
(01:52):
a masterclass, a memoir, and an improvised journey with one
of the most iconic figures in popular music. Each episode
is centered around the writing of a particular song, the
people and the circumstances that inspired it. In this episode,
(02:12):
eleanor Rigby. Not many people know this, but an early
ambition of Paul McCartney's was to be a poet.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I feel okay about admitting to the fact that, yeah,
I wanted to look a bit bookish. I wanted to
smoke a pipe on the top deck of a boss.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
McCartney was friendly with the poet Allen Ginsberg, who had
even revised some of McCartney's poems.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,
starving hysterical megan. I knew Ginsburg quite well, and he
edited some of my poems.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And did he attempt to edit eleanor Rigby.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
No, he said, that's a that's a great poem. I'm
very pleased. It was like in the best review.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
The subject of eleanor Rigby kept coming up in my
conversations with Paul McCartney. It was like a reference point
for him, a beacon. He would steer By. There are
many ways into this song, many things to talk about,
(03:40):
but let's start with the central character, eleanor Rigby herself.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I wanted a character who some God all the little
old ladies that I'd known, and I'm looking back on it,
and I knew quite a few.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Paul McCartney's dad had brought Paul and his brother up
to be rather gallant. He taught them to stand up
for old ladies on buses and he.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Was the type who went off his hat good morning.
So I've been kind of encouraged to if I ever
saw an old lady struggling with shopping, I would be
the gallant young man. Can I carry that for you?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh God, be lovely.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Thank you for much chat chat chat, go to the
house drop it off. Would you like a cup of tea?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Paul was an active Boy Scout and one of his
favorite activities was barber Job Week, a common boy Scout
activity throughout England at the time.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
In Maidenhead, Buckinghamshire, a group of enterprising cabs turn up
in the town hall for their Bobbi Job task.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Where kids would knock on doors and offer their services
for a shilling.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I'm so glad I had to do all of this,
like knocking on doors. Yes, excuse me, it's Bob job week.
Have you any jobs that you would like me to do?
And most of it would be puzzled as to what
when I'd liked what I said, Well, if you got
shared out of the back and maybe it's and he's tidying,
Oh yes, that's going to or if you've got the
(05:12):
garden needs taking, oh yes. Have to give them the ideas.
So I would, And in this way I kind of
got to meet a lot of older people and I
really loved it. I mean, once I got ten Bob,
and I think they kind of liked me.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
These relationships with elderly women are the original inspiration for
Eleanor Rigby.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
So I imagined this lady and gave her a scenario, and
she's picking up the rice in the church.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
Helena Rigby picks up the rice in a church where
a wedding has been so.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
She's cleaning up in the church, which immediately sort of
puts her in a social position and gives us an
idea that there might be a little bit of poignancy
with this rice. And it's not for her. It was
where a wedding had been And then she waits at
the window and facing the jar by the door.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Waits at the window, wearing the face that she keeps
in a job by the door. Who is it for?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
My mom's favorite was Nivia, and I love it to
this day.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Beautiful packaging.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Ye kind of scared me a little that women used
quite so much cold cream.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
They call them greasy stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It was my dread when I got older and got married,
that I would marry someone who would say, oh I
love and would put one of these big shower capsule
on the curlers and have masses of things. And I
really so I played on my mind quite a bit.
So she's just wearing the face she keeps in the
job by the door.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
The name Eleanor had come partly from the actress Eleanor Brawn,
a star at the time who had briefly dated John
Lennon and starred in The Beatles nineteen sixty five movie Help.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I Am not what I seem.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Sure, Hey, my skin so right through to the skin.
There's more here than meets the eye. See Eleanor, I
think was always a thing she Because we worked with
Eleanor Brown took me a long time to think of
Elana or Rigby.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Paul's girlfriend at the time, Jane Asher, was also an actress,
and one time when she was playing at the Bristol
Old Vic, Paul was wandering around outside.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I was wondering, I'm waiting for the play to finish
and saw this shot. Said Rigby. Well, that's there's my surname. Right.
It's nice, it's ordinary, but it's striking, it's strong, it's
got all the sort of stuff I've been looking for.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
This is how Paul McCartney remembers it. Others have pointed
out that the Rigby name have come from somewhere different.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
There is a grave up in Wilton Church with John
and I wandered around endlessly talking about our future, and
there is a grave there.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
On the gravestone is the name eleanor Rigby, and not
far from it another grave with the name McKenzie on it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I don't remember. I we haven't seen that grave, stores not,
but it's been suggested to me that, you know, psychologically,
I will have seen it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I think we do see things without seeing. Of course
we don't.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They plant themselves to plain and then I have to
go to Bristol and see it and go ah.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
The other main character in the song started out as
Father McCartney, but it changed during a writing session with
John Lennon.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I had father McCartney because it was the right syllables,
and I remember playing in.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
These said that's great.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Father McCartney loved it. I said, no, I'm really not
comfortable with it because it's my dad and my father McCartney.
Father McKay's me, you know, it's it's not I don't
want to I don't want to be that personal with this.
So we literally got the phone book out and went
on from McCartney, McCartney, McCartney, McKenzie, that's.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Good, father McKenzie.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
And then we had him working, but his work was
darning his socks, because he was a sort of poor old.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Vicar darning his sucks in the night when there's nobody there.
What does he care?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
All the lonely people where a lovely.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Duel.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Father McCartney didn't make it into the lyrics of Elma Rigby,
but he did play an important role in Paul's musical upbringing.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
My dad had sat me down as a kid and
taught me and my brother the idea of harmony. Every
brother sang in harmony, so me and my brother did.
I once performed in a talent competition with my brother
Mike when I was eleven, and we sang Bye Bye Love.
(10:39):
Didn't win, obviously, not talented enough for the Bottling's crowd.
My dad was self taught, had learned, listened to things
and could play them. You know, I said, Dad, teach
me piana like you play. He said no, So he
(11:01):
said I can't play. Said you can't. I can't hear you.
He said no, I can't play properly. You've got to
go and learn.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So Partney went out to learn from a proper piano teacher,
but he didn't find that kind of music lesson to
be so stimulating.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
He just killed me.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I couldn't do it when you go, and you'd go
to I've heard better stuff than this on the radio.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
This is not great, but okay, I'm sure we have
to start here. And then she set homework. Go home
and learn what a crotchet and the quaver and thing
us and come back. So it was like, I've got
homework from school. I don't need your homework.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
But Paul McCartney was twenty one and the Beatles already
gaining national popularity. He gave the piano lessons another go, and.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
This was Royal Guildhall School of Music guy and he tried,
but by then I'd written Alan Rugby. But he had
to take me back to the five finger exercise do do?
I couldn't. I couldn't do the show. I just didn't
want to do it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Many of Paul's peers felt the same way about traditional
musical training.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Everyone in my generation, all of us groups John George,
Paul and Ringo, Nick, Charlie Peace and so I don't
think any of us can read music. And now I
will teach a kid how to play the piano how
we learned it, and I will show them a couple
(12:44):
of chords to get started on, and if they're musical,
they're off. You get C D minor E minor F
G A minor right there. That's like most of the
Beatles songs. That's more than you need to know.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Which leads us back to eleanor Rigby, a song that
grew from a single chord.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
In its basic sense, it's just an E minor chord,
and all the fun happens with my melody and the
syncopation and the words. Do do do. It's all against
the form fast.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Who is it for?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
George Martin, the Beatles producer, had introduced Paul to the
idea of the string quartet on the song Yesterday.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And I had resisted the idea at first, but when
it worked, I fell in love with the idea. So
I knew now that I wanted to do a similar
thing with eleanor Rigby. So I would go around to
George's house with arrange a little session, and I said
to him, you know, I'm fascinated by Bach, because I
(14:02):
suddenly grasped that there was mathematics. I could see one
two one two, and then on top of that one
two three four one two three four one two now
forming a sort of pyramid, and then one three four, five,
(14:23):
six seven eight, one to three foot five six seven
and one to three foot pat sixteen star. So I
loved this two four eight sixteenth thing. And I brought
this idea and talked to George about this, and he said, well, Bach,
(14:43):
you know, would have done this, and he laid out
the chords as he had done on yesterday. George, talking
about this later, would say that he then became inspired
by Bernard Hermann, who had written the psycho music right,
which is very dramatic, and he wanted to bring some
of that into the arrangements.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Alfred hitched cox nineteen sixties classic about the Sinister Bates
Motel had been a huge box office success Dirty Night.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
He had vacancy.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
We have twelve vacancies, twelve cabins, twelve vacancies.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
In the movie, Anthony Perkins character meles with his dead
mother and takes revenge on his desires.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Whether she's just a stranger, she's hungry.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
And it's writing out together. They kill Janet Lee in
that famous char scene, and it's Bernard Hermann's stabbing violins
that make that scene so iconic. While eleanor Rigby isn't
(16:03):
a film, of course, McCartney says that writing the lyrics
was like structuring a movie.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Well, I was seeing is like a film just in
my god imagination. I've got two protagonists that are lonely.
She and then him. He's not sort of you don't
feel so sorry for him, but he's lonely. So you've
got these two. So all the lonely people now becomes
the chorus where do they belong? Where do they come from?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And in the third verse, the characters are brought together.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Died in the church, so we brought her back to
a rice cleaning duties. And so one day she keels
over in the church and was buried along with her name. So, yeah,
she dies, and then he comes back. He's the one
who buries and he's wiping his hands as he walks
from the great No one was saved, And that's your
(16:59):
sort of wrap up to the story.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And of course there's some kind of strain connection between
the elderly woman, and of course in Psycho it turns
out to be a woman who's kind of mummified in
some ways, the kind of crazy Linco strange.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Maybe George thought that link as well. That's possibly he's
thinking just purely musically. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
When you finished it, did you realize at that moment,
you know, this is one hell of us all.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I thought, this is a cracker. You do you do
when you've when you've got something that that Linda's dad
used to say, he's left ball twitched.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
There's a physical response.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Rigby died in the church and was buried alone with
the name Nobody came Boto McKenzie widering no Dad from
his hands as he watched from the grave. No one
was saved all Alonely do they all call.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
All alone? Do they belonge?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Eleanor Rigby from the Beatles nineteen sixty six album Revolver.
In the next episode, we traveled behind the Iron Curtain
to let ourselves in one one of the greatest jokes
(19:04):
of the Cold War era.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Back in the U. S.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
S R.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Back in the U.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
S s R.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
McCartney A Life in Lyrics is a co production between
iHeartMedia n p L. And Pushkin Industries.
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, everyone, it's Paul muldoon. Before we get to this episode,
I wanted to let you know that you can binge
all twelve episodes of McCartney A Life and Lyrics right
now ad free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find
Pushkin Plus on the McCartney A Life and Lyrics Show,
(00:40):
pedge in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm, slash Plus.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Oh my god, I wanted to become a person who
wrote songs, and I wanted to be someone who's life
was in music.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm Paul muldoun. I'm a poet, a lover of not
only the lyric poem, but the song lyric. Over the
past several years, I've got to spend time with one
of the greatest songwriters of our era.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
And will you look at me, it's happened.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I'm going on too. I'm actually a performer. I'm actually
I'm a songwriter. My god, Well that that crypta homie.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
That is sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a
book looking at the lyrics of more than one hundred
and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours
of our conversations. This is McCartney a life in lyrics,
(01:52):
a masterclass, a memoir, and an improvised journey with one
of the most iconic figures in popular music. Each episode
is centered around the writing of a particular song, the
people and the circumstances that inspired it. In this episode,
(02:12):
eleanor Rigby. Not many people know this, but an early
ambition of Paul McCartney's was to be a poet.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I feel okay about admitting to the fact that, yeah,
I wanted to look a bit bookish. I wanted to
smoke a pipe on the top deck of a boss.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
McCartney was friendly with the poet Allen Ginsberg, who had
even revised some of McCartney's poems.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,
starving hysterical megan. I knew Ginsburg quite well, and he
edited some of my poems.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And did he attempt to edit eleanor Rigby.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
No, he said, that's a that's a great poem. I'm
very pleased. It was like in the best review.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
The subject of eleanor Rigby kept coming up in my
conversations with Paul McCartney. It was like a reference point
for him, a beacon. He would steer By. There are
many ways into this song, many things to talk about,
(03:40):
but let's start with the central character, eleanor Rigby herself.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I wanted a character who some God all the little
old ladies that I'd known, and I'm looking back on it,
and I knew quite a few.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Paul McCartney's dad had brought Paul and his brother up
to be rather gallant. He taught them to stand up
for old ladies on buses and he.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Was the type who went off his hat good morning.
So I've been kind of encouraged to if I ever
saw an old lady struggling with shopping, I would be
the gallant young man. Can I carry that for you?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh God, be lovely.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Thank you for much chat chat chat, go to the
house drop it off. Would you like a cup of tea?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Paul was an active Boy Scout and one of his
favorite activities was barber Job Week, a common boy Scout
activity throughout England at the time.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
In Maidenhead, Buckinghamshire, a group of enterprising cabs turn up
in the town hall for their Bobbi Job task.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Where kids would knock on doors and offer their services
for a shilling.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I'm so glad I had to do all of this,
like knocking on doors. Yes, excuse me, it's Bob job week.
Have you any jobs that you would like me to do?
And most of it would be puzzled as to what
when I'd liked what I said, Well, if you got
shared out of the back and maybe it's and he's tidying,
Oh yes, that's going to or if you've got the
(05:12):
garden needs taking, oh yes. Have to give them the ideas.
So I would, And in this way I kind of
got to meet a lot of older people and I
really loved it. I mean, once I got ten Bob,
and I think they kind of liked me.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
These relationships with elderly women are the original inspiration for
Eleanor Rigby.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
So I imagined this lady and gave her a scenario, and
she's picking up the rice in the church.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
Helena Rigby picks up the rice in a church where
a wedding has been so.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
She's cleaning up in the church, which immediately sort of
puts her in a social position and gives us an
idea that there might be a little bit of poignancy
with this rice. And it's not for her. It was
where a wedding had been And then she waits at
the window and facing the jar by the door.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Waits at the window, wearing the face that she keeps
in a job by the door. Who is it for?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
My mom's favorite was Nivia, and I love it to
this day.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Beautiful packaging.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Ye kind of scared me a little that women used
quite so much cold cream.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
They call them greasy stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It was my dread when I got older and got married,
that I would marry someone who would say, oh I
love and would put one of these big shower capsule
on the curlers and have masses of things. And I
really so I played on my mind quite a bit.
So she's just wearing the face she keeps in the
job by the door.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
The name Eleanor had come partly from the actress Eleanor Brawn,
a star at the time who had briefly dated John
Lennon and starred in The Beatles nineteen sixty five movie Help.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I Am not what I seem.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Sure, Hey, my skin so right through to the skin.
There's more here than meets the eye. See Eleanor, I
think was always a thing she Because we worked with
Eleanor Brown took me a long time to think of
Elana or Rigby.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Paul's girlfriend at the time, Jane Asher, was also an actress,
and one time when she was playing at the Bristol
Old Vic, Paul was wandering around outside.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I was wondering, I'm waiting for the play to finish
and saw this shot. Said Rigby. Well, that's there's my surname. Right.
It's nice, it's ordinary, but it's striking, it's strong, it's
got all the sort of stuff I've been looking for.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
This is how Paul McCartney remembers it. Others have pointed
out that the Rigby name have come from somewhere different.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
There is a grave up in Wilton Church with John
and I wandered around endlessly talking about our future, and
there is a grave there.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
On the gravestone is the name eleanor Rigby, and not
far from it another grave with the name McKenzie on it.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I don't remember. I we haven't seen that grave, stores not,
but it's been suggested to me that, you know, psychologically,
I will have seen it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I think we do see things without seeing. Of course
we don't.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They plant themselves to plain and then I have to
go to Bristol and see it and go ah.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
The other main character in the song started out as
Father McCartney, but it changed during a writing session with
John Lennon.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I had father McCartney because it was the right syllables,
and I remember playing in.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
These said that's great.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Father McCartney loved it. I said, no, I'm really not
comfortable with it because it's my dad and my father McCartney.
Father McKay's me, you know, it's it's not I don't
want to I don't want to be that personal with this.
So we literally got the phone book out and went
on from McCartney, McCartney, McCartney, McKenzie, that's.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Good, father McKenzie.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
And then we had him working, but his work was
darning his socks, because he was a sort of poor old.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Vicar darning his sucks in the night when there's nobody there.
What does he care?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
All the lonely people where a lovely.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Duel.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Father McCartney didn't make it into the lyrics of Elma Rigby,
but he did play an important role in Paul's musical upbringing.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
My dad had sat me down as a kid and
taught me and my brother the idea of harmony. Every
brother sang in harmony, so me and my brother did.
I once performed in a talent competition with my brother
Mike when I was eleven, and we sang Bye Bye Love.
(10:39):
Didn't win, obviously, not talented enough for the Bottling's crowd.
My dad was self taught, had learned, listened to things
and could play them. You know, I said, Dad, teach
me piana like you play. He said no, So he
(11:01):
said I can't play. Said you can't. I can't hear you.
He said no, I can't play properly. You've got to
go and learn.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So Partney went out to learn from a proper piano teacher,
but he didn't find that kind of music lesson to
be so stimulating.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
He just killed me.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I couldn't do it when you go, and you'd go
to I've heard better stuff than this on the radio.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
This is not great, but okay, I'm sure we have
to start here. And then she set homework. Go home
and learn what a crotchet and the quaver and thing
us and come back. So it was like, I've got
homework from school. I don't need your homework.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
But Paul McCartney was twenty one and the Beatles already
gaining national popularity. He gave the piano lessons another go, and.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
This was Royal Guildhall School of Music guy and he tried,
but by then I'd written Alan Rugby. But he had
to take me back to the five finger exercise do do?
I couldn't. I couldn't do the show. I just didn't
want to do it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Many of Paul's peers felt the same way about traditional
musical training.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Everyone in my generation, all of us groups John George,
Paul and Ringo, Nick, Charlie Peace and so I don't
think any of us can read music. And now I
will teach a kid how to play the piano how
we learned it, and I will show them a couple
(12:44):
of chords to get started on, and if they're musical,
they're off. You get C D minor E minor F
G A minor right there. That's like most of the
Beatles songs. That's more than you need to know.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Which leads us back to eleanor Rigby, a song that
grew from a single chord.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
In its basic sense, it's just an E minor chord,
and all the fun happens with my melody and the
syncopation and the words. Do do do. It's all against
the form fast.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Who is it for?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
George Martin, the Beatles producer, had introduced Paul to the
idea of the string quartet on the song Yesterday.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And I had resisted the idea at first, but when
it worked, I fell in love with the idea. So
I knew now that I wanted to do a similar
thing with eleanor Rigby. So I would go around to
George's house with arrange a little session, and I said
to him, you know, I'm fascinated by Bach, because I
(14:02):
suddenly grasped that there was mathematics. I could see one
two one two, and then on top of that one
two three four one two three four one two now
forming a sort of pyramid, and then one three four, five,
(14:23):
six seven eight, one to three foot five six seven
and one to three foot pat sixteen star. So I
loved this two four eight sixteenth thing. And I brought
this idea and talked to George about this, and he said, well, Bach,
(14:43):
you know, would have done this, and he laid out
the chords as he had done on yesterday. George, talking
about this later, would say that he then became inspired
by Bernard Hermann, who had written the psycho music right,
which is very dramatic, and he wanted to bring some
of that into the arrangements.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Alfred hitched cox nineteen sixties classic about the Sinister Bates
Motel had been a huge box office success Dirty Night.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
He had vacancy.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
We have twelve vacancies, twelve cabins, twelve vacancies.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
In the movie, Anthony Perkins character meles with his dead
mother and takes revenge on his desires.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Whether she's just a stranger, she's hungry.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
And it's writing out together. They kill Janet Lee in
that famous char scene, and it's Bernard Hermann's stabbing violins
that make that scene so iconic. While eleanor Rigby isn't
(16:03):
a film, of course, McCartney says that writing the lyrics
was like structuring a movie.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Well, I was seeing is like a film just in
my god imagination. I've got two protagonists that are lonely.
She and then him. He's not sort of you don't
feel so sorry for him, but he's lonely. So you've
got these two. So all the lonely people now becomes
the chorus where do they belong? Where do they come from?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And in the third verse, the characters are brought together.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Died in the church, so we brought her back to
a rice cleaning duties. And so one day she keels
over in the church and was buried along with her name. So, yeah,
she dies, and then he comes back. He's the one
who buries and he's wiping his hands as he walks
from the great No one was saved, And that's your
(16:59):
sort of wrap up to the story.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And of course there's some kind of strain connection between
the elderly woman, and of course in Psycho it turns
out to be a woman who's kind of mummified in
some ways, the kind of crazy Linco strange.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Maybe George thought that link as well. That's possibly he's
thinking just purely musically. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
When you finished it, did you realize at that moment,
you know, this is one hell of us all.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I thought, this is a cracker. You do you do
when you've when you've got something that that Linda's dad
used to say, he's left ball twitched.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
There's a physical response.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Rigby died in the church and was buried alone with
the name Nobody came Boto McKenzie widering no Dad from
his hands as he watched from the grave. No one
was saved all Alonely do they all call.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
All alone? Do they belonge?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Eleanor Rigby from the Beatles nineteen sixty six album Revolver.
In the next episode, we traveled behind the Iron Curtain
to let ourselves in one one of the greatest jokes
(19:04):
of the Cold War era.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Back in the U. S.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
S R.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Back in the U.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
S s R.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
McCartney A Life in Lyrics is a co production between
iHeartMedia n p L. And Pushkin Industries.
Host
Paul McCartney
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