April 15, 2025 • 12 mins
As hosts Merryn Somerset Webb and John Stepek, continue on with part 3 of their UK housing mini-series, they help answer a listener question on the pros and cons of buying a shared ownership property in the UK. They are joined by Ray Boulger, of independent mortgage brokers, John Charcol.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to MEREN Talk
to Your Money, the personal finance edition of Merin Talks
Money and this bonus podcast, we talk about the best
(00:23):
strategy for making the most of your money. Ameren Sunset
Web and with me senior reporter and author of the
Money Distilled newsletter, John Staffact.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hi John, Hi Man.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
John.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
As you know, we are continuing on with our housing
series and we have got another very special expert guest
on today.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Today we'll be speaking with Ray Bulger. Ray is the
senior Mortgage Technical Manager Senior.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Mortgage Technical Manager that's QUB title at independent mortgage broker
John Charcoal and is regarded as not just an authority,
but the authority within the mortgage industry. We've asked Ray
Endaalba's answer one of our listener questions.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Thank you so much for being on the show. Ray,
We appreciate it. So here we go. Here's the question.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Him Merrily and John. My name is Ulu and I'm
London based. I'm looking to buy a flat soon and
was considering shared ownership. I was wondering what are the
pros and cons of shared ownership and would you consider
it over traditional mortgages.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
My instinct there, and we'll get along to this, but
my instinct is don't touch it with a barge pole,
run for your life, and read somewhere else instead. But
you may have a more nuanced view, So I'm wondered
maybe we could start with perhaps you could.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Just explain to us what is shared ownership? What does
that mean? Who are you sharing it with?
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Shared ownership basically means that you buy a property which
will at the moment be a leasehold property, whether it's
a house or flat, but with the rules that the
governments bring in shortly, I guess that would become common
hold in future, and you normally buy it in conjunction
with a housing association. You would buy between ten and
(01:59):
seventy five percent of the property, and the housing association
owns the rest. You would probably need a mortgage between
buy your share of the property, and it is possible
to get a mortgage of up to one hundred percent
of the amount you're boring. The housing association will charge
and rent on the balance, and normally rent will be
(02:20):
a subsidized rate, which frankly is the only way the
multipayments on this full of proposition work. So that's MutS
and bolts bit.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So you find a house or a flat, it's normally
going to be in some kind of housing association estate.
I would guess it's going to be housing a station
the tional council approved. You find a house that you
would like to have, you can't afford to buy the
whole thing. You look at what you can afford to buy,
You take out a mortgage for that amount of the
(02:49):
ten thirty percent whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
The housing A Station continues to own the rest.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
You pay pro rata rent for that section. And then
so you end up being liable for the mortgage on
your share for the rent on the share that you
don't own. And then because it's a lease hold, presumably
there is ground rent and service charges and all that
kind of thing as well upkeep of cumula areas, and
so you then pay your pro writ share of that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Is that right?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
No, Unfortunately that's not so. One of the downside is
that even though you may only own as little as
ten percent of the property, you are responsible for one
hundred percent of the service charge, one hundred percent of
the ground rent, one hundred percent of the maintenance such
as any work you want to do on your property,
such as you're decorating it. So generally speaking, buying as
(03:42):
little as ten percent, whilst it's an option, frankly, I
think in most cases makes little sense.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Okay, I calling you that, and I just wanted to
hear you say it.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So, if you have your shared ownership house and you
put in a new kitchen which increases the value of
the house by say ten percent, and you only own
twenty percent of the house, the other eighty percent of
the uplift effectively goes to the housing association, and you
would need to buy it back when you increase your
share of the ownership.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yes, if you did a major refurbishment like putting in
a new kitchen, then it would usually be possible to
actually have evaluation pre and post and you would get
part of the benefit of that. And if you have
normal decorations, then yes, you're responsible for all of that.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay, So just to be clear, this all sounds insanely expensive,
and I can see how it might make sense if
you genuinely believed that over time you were going to
buy the full one hundred percent, and it was some
way you genuinely wanted to live for a long time,
and the estate in which you had chosen to live
(04:49):
was extremely well managed, and you didn't have long term
service change problems, and if he didn't have, for example,
cladding problems. But out with all those things, and of
course house price continuing to go up, so the thing.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Is worth something.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
When you try and sell it out With all that,
it seems insane. Why would you not just rent somewhere?
I mean, because you're effectively a renter, you're not an owner,
you have none of the control, you have none of
the power, and your expenses that seem to me extremely
a high, particularly as mortgage rates rise.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
What am I missing?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
I don't think you're missing very much at all. The
one thing perhaps you are missing is that what you
do have with shared ownership, which you don't have with renting,
is security of tenure. That's perhaps the main benefit. But
you're paying an awful lot for that security of tenure.
So I think what's also worth bearing your mind is
that what we find is a lot of first time
buyers is that they do have options they don't realize
(05:41):
they have. You can, for example, get one hundred percent
mortgages in certain circumstances. There are other lenders that will
offer you a mortgage with just the five thousand pounds deposit.
So for some people, because they think the maximum they
can borrow is nine ninety five percent, there may be
another option even without a posit. Likewise, even though in
(06:03):
many cases the maximum you can borrow is four and
a half times income, there are other lenders that will
lend you up to six times income. So if your
problem is not enough income, that may be avail hand it. Likewise,
you can get mortgages on what's known as a sore
propriety aura basis, where a family member helps you with
the affordability. So before contemplating show ownership, I would recommend
(06:27):
that anybody who's considering this talks to a good independent
broker who has an understanding of the whole market and
looks at all the other options and only looks I've shared,
I've really known the options work.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
For So I just want to ask you one more question.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
For John is champion the fit to get into shared
ownerseral questions, but I want to ask you one more
before I let him loose. So, if you have to
buy your share from an approved provider of shared ownership housing,
which is going to be a local counsel or housing
association etc.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
When it comes to.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Sell, and is lightly what I'm say, you just have
no control here when it comes to sell. Presumably you
can again only sell that share to a buyer who
is being pre approved by the.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Council or housing association.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So you're not particularly free when you'll buy, You're not
particularly free when you're living there, and you're certainly not
free to sell to anybody when it comes to selling,
and that might make it difficult.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Is that fair I just been two down on this.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
No, that's absolutely right. So you will certainly first have
to offer the property to the housing association and if
they can't find a buyer within say six months, sometimes
you may have an option to sell on there pro market,
but that clearly is a restraint restriction or potential buyers
and therefore the price you might get a property. One
(07:44):
other thing to consider is if you do want to staircase,
which means buying a further share identically not prove affordability.
And one thing I would strongly recommend anybody contemplating buying
any property frankly, but in particular shared owners, is to
make sure they use an independent solicitor, not a solicitor
(08:04):
recommended by the housing association, so we know you're getting genuine,
independent advice rather than perhaps advice from somebody who have
a conflict of interest.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Is suggesting that you can't trust your local housing association.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Ray, Well, we all know some of the problems with
conflict of interest. Many of the problems with Brown Went
dubbling every ten years were cause by buyers using solicit
of recommended by the developer.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Ray, is it also the case that more often than not,
when you enter a shared ownership contract like this, you're
buying a new house, what's the percentative new versus old?
Because of course there's another whole area of jeopardy if
you put your hard down cash into a brand new house.
Because I don't know what the statistics are at the moment,
but historically a new house has lost sixteen percent of
(08:50):
its value the second that broke and puts the nice
Shanny keys in your hand.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So that doesn't help.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
No, that's certainly true in them Georgia of cases, you
would be looking at a new property. And of course
one of the benefits if one's going to look at
positive here is if you're buying new property, what's the
point you make about value is relevant. You will probably
have relatively low heating costs because one you've propped it
up to comply with current government regulations.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
That's about the best effort of grasping in the silver
lining I've ever heard on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Ray, Thank you, No, I was tinking to my original
analysis here, kids run for the hills, John.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I mean, I don't have that many more questions, but
one thing I would ask. The shared ownation has been
around for actually quite a long time now, and so
clearly people are using it. So I'm just wanting in
practical terms, either the volume of horror stories is not
as high as I think. I certainly felt that it
would be five years old from when it first became popular,
(09:48):
So I mean, why do you think that is? Why
is it still around?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Anybody who is struggling to find a deposit and affordability
may find it. The fullibility works a bit better with
shared ownership. But I think the point that was made
earlier in terms of perhaps thinking of renting until you
can afford to buy a property in the ordany way,
is the key one. If you buy a shared ownership
property and then at a later stage you're ready to
(10:14):
buy a property in a normal way, you will no
longer be a first time buyer, which means you may
then end up paying more stampfew from land tax, which
is frankly the main benefit these days in being a
first time buyer. So I think that is really a
key point. If you can't afford to buy property in
the ordiny way, bearing in mind all the legal implications
and problems even when you want to staircase up when
(10:36):
you want to sell, that's a strong argument for renting
rather than shared ownership.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
In my view, it strikes me that one of the
big big problems is the complexities of the legal seed.
And obviously a lot of these properties are also new
and a lot of them are flats and lease orders. Well,
from your experience, who do mortgage lend does feel about this?
Is it hard that you get a mortgage and shared
donership proper? These are the actually relatively relaxed about it.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Well, there are plenty of lenders who will lend on
shared ownership of properties. Building societies tend to have the
line's share of this for the market. So whilst not
every lender will provide you with the mortgage on the
shared ownership property, there is plenty of choice, and there
are a few lenders who will actually give you one
hundred percent mortgage on the part you're buying, although most
will limited denied you one ninety five percent. So the
(11:26):
mortgage is not in itself a problem. However, you will
probably pay a higher interest rate because you've got restaurants.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Thank you very much to no. I think that's that's
all my questions, and I basically have to agree with
both of you. It sounds like very much a last
resort chained of option.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, I mean all I would say that I'm amazed
that Ray has managed to find a negative to shared
ownership that I hadn't even thought of, which was not
being a first time buyer anymore and losing your stamp
duty advantage. So the unusual, we have someone on who
can find a negative about something that John and I
hadn't thought of given away that are minds except we
hugely appreciate that too.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Great.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Thank you very much, indeed, and John, as usual, thank
you and thanks for listening to this week's Maren Talk
to Your Money. If you like our show, rate review
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Also shure to
follow me and John on X or Twitter. I'm at
Maren sw John is John Underscore Steppeic. This episode was
produced by Summersadi and Moses and special thanks to Raybel Jerk.
(12:24):
Questions and comments on this show and all our shows
is always welcome. Our show email is merin Money at
Bloomberg dot net
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to MEREN Talk
to Your Money, the personal finance edition of Merin Talks
Money and this bonus podcast, we talk about the best
(00:23):
strategy for making the most of your money. Ameren Sunset
Web and with me senior reporter and author of the
Money Distilled newsletter, John Staffact.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hi John, Hi Man.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
John.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
As you know, we are continuing on with our housing
series and we have got another very special expert guest
on today.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Today we'll be speaking with Ray Bulger. Ray is the
senior Mortgage Technical Manager Senior.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Mortgage Technical Manager that's QUB title at independent mortgage broker
John Charcoal and is regarded as not just an authority,
but the authority within the mortgage industry. We've asked Ray
Endaalba's answer one of our listener questions.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Thank you so much for being on the show. Ray,
We appreciate it. So here we go. Here's the question.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Him Merrily and John. My name is Ulu and I'm
London based. I'm looking to buy a flat soon and
was considering shared ownership. I was wondering what are the
pros and cons of shared ownership and would you consider
it over traditional mortgages.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
My instinct there, and we'll get along to this, but
my instinct is don't touch it with a barge pole,
run for your life, and read somewhere else instead. But
you may have a more nuanced view, So I'm wondered
maybe we could start with perhaps you could.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Just explain to us what is shared ownership? What does
that mean? Who are you sharing it with?
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Shared ownership basically means that you buy a property which
will at the moment be a leasehold property, whether it's
a house or flat, but with the rules that the
governments bring in shortly, I guess that would become common
hold in future, and you normally buy it in conjunction
with a housing association. You would buy between ten and
(01:59):
seventy five percent of the property, and the housing association
owns the rest. You would probably need a mortgage between
buy your share of the property, and it is possible
to get a mortgage of up to one hundred percent
of the amount you're boring. The housing association will charge
and rent on the balance, and normally rent will be
(02:20):
a subsidized rate, which frankly is the only way the
multipayments on this full of proposition work. So that's MutS
and bolts bit.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So you find a house or a flat, it's normally
going to be in some kind of housing association estate.
I would guess it's going to be housing a station
the tional council approved. You find a house that you
would like to have, you can't afford to buy the
whole thing. You look at what you can afford to buy,
You take out a mortgage for that amount of the
(02:49):
ten thirty percent whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
The housing A Station continues to own the rest.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
You pay pro rata rent for that section. And then
so you end up being liable for the mortgage on
your share for the rent on the share that you
don't own. And then because it's a lease hold, presumably
there is ground rent and service charges and all that
kind of thing as well upkeep of cumula areas, and
so you then pay your pro writ share of that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Is that right?
Speaker 5 (03:20):
No, Unfortunately that's not so. One of the downside is
that even though you may only own as little as
ten percent of the property, you are responsible for one
hundred percent of the service charge, one hundred percent of
the ground rent, one hundred percent of the maintenance such
as any work you want to do on your property,
such as you're decorating it. So generally speaking, buying as
(03:42):
little as ten percent, whilst it's an option, frankly, I
think in most cases makes little sense.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Okay, I calling you that, and I just wanted to
hear you say it.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So, if you have your shared ownership house and you
put in a new kitchen which increases the value of
the house by say ten percent, and you only own
twenty percent of the house, the other eighty percent of
the uplift effectively goes to the housing association, and you
would need to buy it back when you increase your
share of the ownership.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Yes, if you did a major refurbishment like putting in
a new kitchen, then it would usually be possible to
actually have evaluation pre and post and you would get
part of the benefit of that. And if you have
normal decorations, then yes, you're responsible for all of that.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay, So just to be clear, this all sounds insanely expensive,
and I can see how it might make sense if
you genuinely believed that over time you were going to
buy the full one hundred percent, and it was some
way you genuinely wanted to live for a long time,
and the estate in which you had chosen to live
(04:49):
was extremely well managed, and you didn't have long term
service change problems, and if he didn't have, for example,
cladding problems. But out with all those things, and of
course house price continuing to go up, so the thing.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Is worth something.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
When you try and sell it out With all that,
it seems insane. Why would you not just rent somewhere?
I mean, because you're effectively a renter, you're not an owner,
you have none of the control, you have none of
the power, and your expenses that seem to me extremely
a high, particularly as mortgage rates rise.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
What am I missing?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
I don't think you're missing very much at all. The
one thing perhaps you are missing is that what you
do have with shared ownership, which you don't have with renting,
is security of tenure. That's perhaps the main benefit. But
you're paying an awful lot for that security of tenure.
So I think what's also worth bearing your mind is
that what we find is a lot of first time
buyers is that they do have options they don't realize
(05:41):
they have. You can, for example, get one hundred percent
mortgages in certain circumstances. There are other lenders that will
offer you a mortgage with just the five thousand pounds deposit.
So for some people, because they think the maximum they
can borrow is nine ninety five percent, there may be
another option even without a posit. Likewise, even though in
(06:03):
many cases the maximum you can borrow is four and
a half times income, there are other lenders that will
lend you up to six times income. So if your
problem is not enough income, that may be avail hand it. Likewise,
you can get mortgages on what's known as a sore
propriety aura basis, where a family member helps you with
the affordability. So before contemplating show ownership, I would recommend
(06:27):
that anybody who's considering this talks to a good independent
broker who has an understanding of the whole market and
looks at all the other options and only looks I've shared,
I've really known the options work.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
For So I just want to ask you one more question.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
For John is champion the fit to get into shared
ownerseral questions, but I want to ask you one more
before I let him loose. So, if you have to
buy your share from an approved provider of shared ownership housing,
which is going to be a local counsel or housing
association etc.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
When it comes to.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Sell, and is lightly what I'm say, you just have
no control here when it comes to sell. Presumably you
can again only sell that share to a buyer who
is being pre approved by the.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Council or housing association.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So you're not particularly free when you'll buy, You're not
particularly free when you're living there, and you're certainly not
free to sell to anybody when it comes to selling,
and that might make it difficult.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Is that fair I just been two down on this.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
No, that's absolutely right. So you will certainly first have
to offer the property to the housing association and if
they can't find a buyer within say six months, sometimes
you may have an option to sell on there pro market,
but that clearly is a restraint restriction or potential buyers
and therefore the price you might get a property. One
(07:44):
other thing to consider is if you do want to staircase,
which means buying a further share identically not prove affordability.
And one thing I would strongly recommend anybody contemplating buying
any property frankly, but in particular shared owners, is to
make sure they use an independent solicitor, not a solicitor
(08:04):
recommended by the housing association, so we know you're getting genuine,
independent advice rather than perhaps advice from somebody who have
a conflict of interest.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Is suggesting that you can't trust your local housing association.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Ray, Well, we all know some of the problems with
conflict of interest. Many of the problems with Brown Went
dubbling every ten years were cause by buyers using solicit
of recommended by the developer.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Ray, is it also the case that more often than not,
when you enter a shared ownership contract like this, you're
buying a new house, what's the percentative new versus old?
Because of course there's another whole area of jeopardy if
you put your hard down cash into a brand new house.
Because I don't know what the statistics are at the moment,
but historically a new house has lost sixteen percent of
(08:50):
its value the second that broke and puts the nice
Shanny keys in your hand.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So that doesn't help.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
No, that's certainly true in them Georgia of cases, you
would be looking at a new property. And of course
one of the benefits if one's going to look at
positive here is if you're buying new property, what's the
point you make about value is relevant. You will probably
have relatively low heating costs because one you've propped it
up to comply with current government regulations.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
That's about the best effort of grasping in the silver
lining I've ever heard on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Ray, Thank you, No, I was tinking to my original
analysis here, kids run for the hills, John.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I mean, I don't have that many more questions, but
one thing I would ask. The shared ownation has been
around for actually quite a long time now, and so
clearly people are using it. So I'm just wanting in
practical terms, either the volume of horror stories is not
as high as I think. I certainly felt that it
would be five years old from when it first became popular,
(09:48):
So I mean, why do you think that is? Why
is it still around?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Anybody who is struggling to find a deposit and affordability
may find it. The fullibility works a bit better with
shared ownership. But I think the point that was made
earlier in terms of perhaps thinking of renting until you
can afford to buy a property in the ordany way,
is the key one. If you buy a shared ownership
property and then at a later stage you're ready to
(10:14):
buy a property in a normal way, you will no
longer be a first time buyer, which means you may
then end up paying more stampfew from land tax, which
is frankly the main benefit these days in being a
first time buyer. So I think that is really a
key point. If you can't afford to buy property in
the ordiny way, bearing in mind all the legal implications
and problems even when you want to staircase up when
(10:36):
you want to sell, that's a strong argument for renting
rather than shared ownership.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
In my view, it strikes me that one of the
big big problems is the complexities of the legal seed.
And obviously a lot of these properties are also new
and a lot of them are flats and lease orders. Well,
from your experience, who do mortgage lend does feel about this?
Is it hard that you get a mortgage and shared
donership proper? These are the actually relatively relaxed about it.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Well, there are plenty of lenders who will lend on
shared ownership of properties. Building societies tend to have the
line's share of this for the market. So whilst not
every lender will provide you with the mortgage on the
shared ownership property, there is plenty of choice, and there
are a few lenders who will actually give you one
hundred percent mortgage on the part you're buying, although most
will limited denied you one ninety five percent. So the
(11:26):
mortgage is not in itself a problem. However, you will
probably pay a higher interest rate because you've got restaurants.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Thank you very much to no. I think that's that's
all my questions, and I basically have to agree with
both of you. It sounds like very much a last
resort chained of option.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, I mean all I would say that I'm amazed
that Ray has managed to find a negative to shared
ownership that I hadn't even thought of, which was not
being a first time buyer anymore and losing your stamp
duty advantage. So the unusual, we have someone on who
can find a negative about something that John and I
hadn't thought of given away that are minds except we
hugely appreciate that too.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Great.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Thank you very much, indeed, and John, as usual, thank
you and thanks for listening to this week's Maren Talk
to Your Money. If you like our show, rate review
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Also shure to
follow me and John on X or Twitter. I'm at
Maren sw John is John Underscore Steppeic. This episode was
produced by Summersadi and Moses and special thanks to Raybel Jerk.
(12:24):
Questions and comments on this show and all our shows
is always welcome. Our show email is merin Money at
Bloomberg dot net
Host
Merryn Somerset Webb
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.