February 14, 2025 • 49 mins
What would philosopher and political economist Adam Smith think of Donald Trump’s love of tariffs? What would he make of the Republican president’s approach to taxes and deregulation? On this episode of Merryn Talks Money, recorded last week in Dubai, a special panel joins host Merryn Somerset Webb to try and answer those questions using Smith’s texts as a guide. They also talk about the global investment landscape and how the Gulf region, and particularly the United Arab Emirates, is a good place to launch a career.
In front of an audience at the Heriot-Watt University campus, Webb was joined by Adam Dixon, chair in sustainable capitalism at Panmure House, Ashley Hunter, founding partner of A. Hunter & Co., and Iqbal Kham, chief executive of Fajr Capital Group, an impact-driven investment firm.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to Marin Talks Money,
the podcast in which people who know the markets explain
the markets. I'm Meren sum zet Word. This week we're
(00:23):
bringing you a panel I hosted in Dubai last week.
It was at the Herriot wat University Campus, which is
part of the Edinburgh Business School. With me on stage
was Adam Dixon, Chair of Sustainable Capitalism at PAMA House,
Ashley Hunter, founding partner of a Hunter Company, which is
a global risk management, advisory and consultant firm, and Ikval Kahan,
CEO of Farja Capital, which is an impact driven investment firm.
(00:48):
We spoke for nearly an hour about what Adam Smith
might make of Donald Trump's tariff policies, about tax rules,
about deregulation, and about where the passion should factor into
your career planning. So for this week's episode of bringing
an edited version of that conversation and to keep the
traditional live, we started as we do it, our friends
shows and the panelist shows a favorite Adam Smith quote
(01:08):
to kick off the conversation. Here is my panel in Dubai,
starting with Adam Dixon sharing his favorite Adam Smith quote.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
The one problem about smith quotes is that he wrote
in the eighteenth century, and I don't know. I'm a
native speaker, and I even find understanding Smith's writing to
be difficult, so I'll try to read slowly. And my
quote comes from the Theory of Moral Sentiments, not his
more famous book The Wealth of Nations. And my quote
(01:39):
is the great body of the party are commonly intoxicated
with the imaginary beauty of this ideal system of which
they have no experience, but which has been represented to
them in all the most dazzling colors, in which the
eloquence of their leaders could paint it excellent.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
One of my favorite quotes. Why did you choose that quote?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So I chose this quote not to pick on Donald Trump.
I will be very diplomatic in what I have to say,
but given that we're what two or three weeks into
the Trump presidency, every day is a new executive order
that dismantles some part of the US government, both domestically
(02:29):
and internationally. There's threats of tariffs against Canada and Mexico,
which you know, twenty four hours after the fact, are stopped,
and everyone's thinking, what's going to happen? Next in the
Trump Show. It's quite entertaining. I don't know what Ashley
thinks about it, but I thought, and again, this is
not to critique Trump or to give an opinion on
(02:50):
what is transpiring.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
But why I chose.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It is basically to set people at ease. I'm always
shocked that people believe every single thing that Trump says.
You know, he's been president before, he said a lot
of things. Does he believe everything he says? I don't
think so. But you talk to people and they think, oh,
the United States is gonna invade Greenland, and you think, really,
(03:16):
it's not gonna invade Greenland.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
The United States is gonna leave NATO, It's not gonna
do that. And so I think I just wanted to
because Trump is so eloquent, not He's so bombastic in
his pronouncements on what he wants.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
To do, and people believe it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
This grandeur of make America great again. Actually we should
step back a bit and say, well, actually, does he
believe everything he says? Maybe, but that we should also
remember that. And this is what Smith was writing about
was he was very much a conservative conservative in the
sense of he did not like revolutions of the like
(03:57):
that Trump is promising because he thinks there disruptive in
a bad way. And so I think we all need
to look at Trump as being, yes, an interesting force,
and some of the things he's doing will be disruptive,
but we shouldn't necessarily believe everything that we're hearing.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's also, I mean, one of the senses of this
quote is that everyone believes that there is an ideal
system under which one should live, but in fact, the
most effective system is the muddle through a system that
we all live in, the one where you do. Everyone
does the best they can on any particular day, and
we know from attempts to create idyllic glands, yes, that
it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, absolutely, and that's that's That's exactly the point. This,
this man of system, as he calls that, this who
offers the people this ideal system is usually a charlatan.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, there is no ideal system. But I suppose the
other question is should we believe him more this time
because this is his second term, he's not looking to
be re elected again. We hope that this is a
this is a this is a fo one and done,
and that means that he might be prepared. This time around,
his government is better prepared, the systems around him are better.
(05:08):
But also he may be prepared to follow through in
a much more risk friendly way to him than he
might have been in his first term.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So two responses that one, sometimes change is good, sometimes
disruption is good. Right, So we shouldn't necessarily and this
is again I don't want to make a give a
position on whether I think something is good or bad,
but just to say that change in any country and
any government is not necessarily a bad thing. So some
of the changes that he and his ministration want to
(05:39):
make may be good. Obviously that means some may be
incredibly bad. The other point to mention is, and sorry
for the lesson on American politics and American government, is
that there, in principles, should be three co equal branches
of government, and the executive branch is not the most powerful.
(06:03):
There's still the Congress, and there's still the judiciary. Judiciary,
excuse me. And in principle too, there's fifty states with
as well decentralized forms of power. And this was also
something that was very much discussed in the eighteenth century
among the likes of Adam Smith and just to say,
then that means that, yes, his administration might be prepared,
(06:26):
but there's still Congress and there's still the judiciary. And
if Congress goes along with it, well, then that's what
the people voted for.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
When we have the first thing that pops into my
head when you say we should have these three equal
parts of government. And perhaps in the US sometimes like now,
maybe the executive has too much power. In the UK,
we now coming to the belief that the judiciary has
far too much power. And that's a different type of problem. Actually,
I know you wanted to say something there. Again, I
could feel it.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
You know what, I adam to your point. I think
that some disruptive behavior is good. I think when this
ruption becomes a vehicle from like turning away from what
is important, I think then it becomes a problem. So
I think currently what we have is an administration that
(07:12):
is trying to create chaos so that we don't realize
all the trouble that we are about to encounter.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
But Trump did say before he was during the campaign
that he didn't want to tax Americans that are living abroad.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
No, No, don't we jumping any guns.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, I'm not jumping a gun, just foreshadowing some discussion.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
But let me ask both of you. Then let me
ask both of you, and if you have a thought here,
you've talked about some change being good, some change being bad,
some disruption being good. What are the things, because we're
not a negative podcast, what are the things that are
happening under this new administration that you might approve of,
that you might say, well, this is good, this is good,
this should happen.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
I think he's very business. I think he's pro business.
And for someone who owns a business, who sold businesses,
who likes business, I think he has created an air
of we're open for business, and I think that that
means that we're going to have less regulation. I think
that that means that we're going to have less hoops
to jump through. I think M and A will actually
(08:11):
start to pick up again, which we did not have
under the past administration. So, to be quite honest with you, yes,
as far as business is concerned right now, I'm optimistic.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, but what about Okay, here's one another one of
my favorite quotes. I'm just going to chuck right out
you here. Okay, by means of glasses, hotbeds, and hot wolves.
Very good grapes can be raised in Scotland. That's not
actually true, by the way, I'm just passulous. And very
good wine too can be made of them at about
thirty times the expense for which at least equally good
(08:42):
can be bought from foreign countries. Would it be a
reasonable law to prohibit the importation of all foreign wines
merely to encourage the making of Clarence and Burgundy in Scotland.
So that's Adam smith view on tariffs. Very bad thing.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
What Okay, I am not a projectionist. I think if
it makes more sense to get it somewhere else for cheaper,
I mean, there are a lot of women right now
who are going to be very upset that they're not
getting their sheine and tamu.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Ok, you'll need to explain that not everybody will understand
that reference.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
So in America there are two very dominant low cost
e commerce and women in America on TikTok, which is
another thing that we love. They do their sheine hals
where you can effectively buy a month's worth of clothing
for about five bucks. And now the United States Postal
(09:39):
Service has now decided that they're no longer going to
accept shipments from China or Hong Kong, which basically means
that all of the sheene and Tamu halls that are
happening on TikTok, which my husband can attest to, takes
up the majority of my evening. It is going to
go considerably down now that this is no longer available.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Now this is related to it. It's related to the
removal of an exemption for duty paid on packages coming
into the US with under eight hundred.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Dollars, right and along with the fact that they're just
in this tear war, I mean he left the tariffs
on China that that is not going to make them happy.
They're looking for all ways to like disrupt any company
doing business there. At Google, Apple, They're all now being.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
The Chinese stock market has reacted very happily to these
terrfs being lower than expected. So bad expectation management.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
You have to manage your expectations. But I think to
some degree this is not going to end well for
anybody in the US because we actually source so many
of our goods from Chinese manufacturers. I mean, all of
Trump's merch comes from China.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
True, But okay, well, let's let's look at it. Like this.
Let me let me ask Adam. Then. I mean, the
reason that he wants to do this is because of
the hollowing out of the manufacturing base in the US,
which is a very bad thing in lots of ways
because it removes high quality, high income jobs from the US.
And also it's a national shit security problem at a
time of geopolitical difficulty. So there are strong reasons to
think that one should try and encourage not necessarily the
(11:07):
making of more burgundy in the US, but certainly the
building of new manufacturing plants that could enhance incomes in
the US and also provide national security over the long term.
So in that sense, could you argue with a small
tariff on stuff coming from China.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So I mean, what you've highlighted, though, is there's a
schism in the Republican Party and there's the say free trade,
Wall Street journal reading crowd, and then there's the more
nationalist wing of the party. And I think that schism
is something to watch because this is where Trump's tariffs
(11:47):
will be fought out. It's interesting though, that what happened
with Mexico and Canada just over the last twenty four
hours is that threatened tariffs and then actually we're going
to pause them, right, So this is much of it
as a negotiating tactic on China. Again, the tariffs aren't
as high as they expected, because again, will Trump be
(12:11):
able to rebuild the American manufacturing classes when Elon Musk
is automating production and manufacture and we.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Have so maybe we just don't need the manufacturing classes,
but we need the manufacturing plants.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I want to say that Montesquieu when he talked about
separation of powers legislature, executive, judiciary as the way to
run a government, we have a fourth class of power
and influence, which is the multi billionaire class called Elon Musk,
and he is trying to completely destroy the American civil
(12:51):
service and he has a view on everything and this
tariffs are very inflationary. We have seen this as script playout.
And as far as mister Trump is concerned, second term
Trump has been waiting for a long time to come
up with policies and second Trump. Second term US presidents
(13:12):
are hardly accountable. There are those who think about their
legacy and there are those who think about themselves. I
think mister Trump is in the later category, where he
has to do everything as a Trump perspective, his perspective,
his family's perspective. And I think this will be very
inflationary for the world because he's singularly responsible for deglobalizing
(13:36):
the world economy, and we will all pay the price
that inflation will come roaring back. And when inflation comes,
it takes long time to come, but it takes longer
to subdue it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
But doesn't it feel like we've already got that? And
certainly in the worst we have that hangover from COVID,
it hasn't quite left us. Those pulses are still coming
and we can see it constantly in the wage numbers.
You notice the rather high wage numbers out of Japan
this week. You know, we see it pulsing again and again.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, but I think, you know, putting on tariffs and
creating an environment where Trump is going to do this
or that. Whether he does it or not, it is
destabilizing the world and the deglobalization which is happening all
across the world majority minority nations, where the majority in
every country feels that they are a minority. The world
(14:30):
is being divided into them and us, which is not
the outcome which we want. And I think it is
leading to the world being decivilized. I mean, go to Africa.
The impact of tariffs, the impact of inflation, the impact
of on currencies of the emerging market is huge. And
I think this will all play out in the next
(14:52):
four years. And remember that the legacy has the control
of the executive. He has the control of his cabinet,
which he should as a president, but he also has
control over the judiciary. So the separation of powers is
kind of becoming very weak in America. In such an environment,
(15:13):
it's easy to take wrong policies without much debate and
make things worse for the world as a whole.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay, goth challenge for you. One positive of two term Trump.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I think Trump is a doer, so it's better to
have take action than rather have inaction. We had four
years of Biden's inaction and as a result, economic policy, political,
international peace all suffered. Whether you agree with Trump or not,
(15:46):
he is a doer and I think he will do things.
If he gets majority of the things right, then he
will have a positive impact.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I think we're going to go onto a second quote, Ashley,
Can I move on to you?
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (16:01):
The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the
support of the government as nearly as possible in proportion
to their respective abilities, that is, in proportion to the
revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Of the state.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
I obviously, I'm sure you can tell. I'm American, and
I am a little bitter because unlike many of my
friends who are expats, they enjoy the ability to not
pay taxes in their respective countries. However, as an American,
the IRS follows me every year they find me, and
(16:40):
every year I send them money. And I don't live
in the US. I do not enjoy the spoils of
living on US soil. Yet I still pay to contribute
to everyone else to enjoy the riches of my labor
in the UAE.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But Ashton, don't you feel that what you're paying for
is the right to hold an American passport? And there
are an awful lot of people who would pay an
awful lot to hold the passport that you have, And
so paying that tax is simply the passport premium that
(17:20):
you owe to the country that protects you.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
One might say that, but there are a lot of
other countries out here that offer up protections for a
lot less than not pay for mine.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Well, maybe they're wrong, I mean, but it is a problem,
isn't it. I mean this idea that the tax you
pay should be connected to the services, one way or
another that you receive. And of course there is a
price for being citizen. Of course, there is a price
for holding a passport to a country that allows you
have an American falls pretty high up when it comes
to the passport index every year that tells you how
(17:54):
many countries you can go to visa free for example.
You know it's near the top, along with the UK
passports and a lot of other European mines, etc. So
there's something to there's some value in that. But then
you get to the point where you feel, as you
do a lot of countries at the moment, that you're
paying an awful lot and not getting much back. I
mean the statistic that is always thrown around in the
UK at the moment everyone hates rich people in the UK.
(18:17):
At the moment we hate rich people, which is why
they're all coming to live here in Dubai. The top
one percent of income taxpayers in the UK pay twenty
eight percent of all income tax. They earn around thirteen
percent of all income. So we're no longer living with
a progressive system. We're living with an ultra ultra progressive system.
(18:37):
And if you, of course you get nothing for yours
zero zero, how would you change that system?
Speaker 6 (18:43):
I think we should have a global flat tax, a.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Global flat tax at what level?
Speaker 6 (18:50):
I haven't gotten there yet. I'll let Adam sort those
details out. But I don't have an issue with tax.
I just think that it should be distributed. There just
needs to be a better job because obviously America does
provide some level of comfort insecurity, and I'm sure others
(19:11):
also enjoy that security and safety. So a global flat
tax to me seems like a nice, healthy like middle ground.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, temp cent or so ten seven.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
America.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
But in that sense, I mean, you're coming out more
and more as a Trump supporter every second, and that
you know one thing, one thing that is happening in
the US is that if he has his way with
the American bureaucracy, and we were speaking earlier, won't we
about US eight and the extraordinary things that American taxpayer
money ends up being spent on. If he has his
way with the bureaucracy, if he manages to reduce the
(19:50):
cost of government very significantly, and he's talking about them
being able to bring down tax raids very significantly. You mean,
and will be sitting here in four years and you'll
be going that that Donald Trump, what a guy.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
Perhaps at this juncture, I do not see it. I
think trying to unravel the United States federal government with
all of its problems. It is a functioning, dysfunctional organization,
and there is something inherently comfortable in the disorganization because
(20:23):
you at least know that every month Social Security checks
will be sent out on a certain day. Right if
you are on assistant living, you do realize that those
payments will come every month. Is it functional? Absolutely not?
Does the VA have holes? Are there issues?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (20:40):
But there is something about having functional government and trying
to dismantle it like it is a corporation. To me,
I just I cannot see that happening, and I don't
see it working. He can try now. I do stand
behind his text.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I see it.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
There is another very famous Adam Swifth quote that first
to tax, that I also like the tax which each
individual is bound to pay ought to be certain and arbitrary,
the time of payment, the manner of payment, the quantity
to be paid, ought all to be clear and planned
the contributor and to every other person. And I know
(21:17):
that the tax code in the US is out of control.
The tax code in the UK is completely out of control.
We normally when we talk about the tax code, we
talk about it in terms of the works of Shakespeare.
It is longer than the whole the entirety of his production,
but is also of course significantly longer than the Wealth
of Nations, which and I do believe all of you
who said you read it, but it is very, very long.
(21:38):
The UK tax code is now longer than the wealth
of nations moral sentiments combined times A couple of times
i'd say, so it doesn't. It no longer fits any
smith rules about tax. Now you all have views on
tax and how it should be charged and how it
should be paid.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
The thing about tax is this, it only goes up,
whether it is vad or personal tax sation, corporate taxation.
My view on taxation I've been a resident of the
United Kingdom is and I paid taxes over a long
period of time, is that my money goes for good causes.
It doesn't go for causes, which I don't believe in it,
(22:14):
and I pay taxes happily because it is helping those
who are in need. But I think actually you could
move to France and call yourself that you are an
artist and you will get taxed at zero person.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yes, or in Ireland. You can do that in Ireland
as well.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Taxation is also a mechanism to attract people of talent
to your country, and the French government, with all their
bureaucracy I have done it very well. So I suggest
that Ashley considers moving to France and giving her American
nationality after five years.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
Okay, no, I'm staying in the US. For any Americans listening.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I'm just curious to ask a question about taxes here
in the UAE. Europe is very high. Tax in the
US spit lower than Europe and UK, but it's still high,
whereas here in the UAE and around the Gulf generally
taxes are low to non existent. At what point will
do Bay have to start taxing?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
But we do have taxation, We have VAT and there
are certain items which are exempted, and we AT across
the GCC is increasing, and I think taxation in personal
form will not happen for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So actually will be Okay.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Okay, I am not being taxed in this lovely country.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Okay, But here's a question for you, then, Adam, in
the US, once AI has produced the most extraordinary productivity
boom and changed everything, streamlined the bureaucracy of the country,
and also reduced the costs of doing almost everything to nothing,
we won't require to acts in the usiver or is
(24:02):
it too much false promise in AI? Do think?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't know what to think about AI. I think
there's a lot of hype around it. I think the
very specific tasks will be automated clerical work. So I
think the question, though, that you're wanting to get at,
is will large swaths of the public not have jobs?
And therefore what we have to start thinking about things
like universal basic income or some kind of support. I
(24:25):
don't think that's going to happen. I think will be
a very long time. And I think, like with other
technological advances and changes, we've always found other things to do.
And let's go back to what John Maynard Kines called for.
I said, wouldn't be nice to have a twenty hour week?
I mean, if we could work less but then be
more productive. So I think, But I mean the real
question is is productivity in America is very good and
(24:47):
very high. What I'm really concerned about is productivity in
old Europe and old UK, which is flat lined. This
region of the world. There's lots of productivity and there's
a lot of dynamism, which I think is useful to see.
So I think that that's the real kind of question.
Is America will be fine for the most part. Ashley
might not come back, but you know, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So is there an AI bubble in the US? You
said there's a lot of hype around it?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Well, I mean what we saw recently with this deep
seek and that kind of spooked the markets. And I
still think there's probably money to be made, obviously over
the long term on those companies that have the data
that can feed into AI models. But it's going to
be the specific uses of AI and those companies that
can take not the big, large language models, but the
(25:34):
more specific ones and use them to do things like
find the cure for cancer or you solve some problem
that we have. That's where I think money can be made.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
We often get the question about what should I study
at university with AI? Or the jobs will be gone,
et cetera, et cetera. And we always say the same thing,
you cannot imagine the jobs of the future. We know
they will come, but you cannot imagine them. And I
saw that in action today on the beach here in Dubai.
Twenty years ago. There is no way I would ever
believe for a second that anyone could make a living
as an influencer. But here on the beach endless people
(26:09):
taking photographs of themselves, you know, setting up little tripods
and posing around the place, et cetera. And I said
to the kids, well, earth are they doing? And you
know their influencers. This is a career we couldn't have
imagined twenty years ago. How I mean, it's not what
I strictly approve of, but how extraordinarily creative we are
in the production of these jobs.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Do you go out and see influences all over the place.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Not really, but they do impact our businesses. We have
food businesses which we use the influencers to bring more
customers in. So there are some businesses where they do
work very well.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Free food excellent.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So the cote which I have chosen is a very
personal quote for me. It is from the Theory of
Moral Sense Sentiment seventeen fifty nine. For to what purpose
is all the toil and bustle of this world? What
is the end of avarice and ambition, of the pursuit
of wealth, power and pre eminence? And I chose this
(27:09):
courte because when I was in a school in India,
studying in a Roman Catholic school as a Muslim, and
I read a poem written by Thomas Gray, an elegy
written in a country churchyard, and in that he says,
the path of greatness and glory lead but to the grave.
(27:32):
At the end of our lives. None of us will
take anything with us. We are merely trustees and custodians.
And as trustees and custodians, we have been given a
very big responsibility. We are the vice regents of this world.
Whether it is the environment, whether it is the climate,
whether it is healthcare, we have big responsibilities. So I
(27:57):
chose this because this is the ultimate reality of life.
And the purpose of an economy is to build a fairer,
just and a better world for all.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And how does that affect the way you invest?
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Well? We are an ethical firm. We run on the
Islamic principle which is called sharia, and if one sentence
can describe it, we invest in that which is good
for mankind. In the Quran there is a word called
yenphone nas We invest in that which is good for mankind.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
How do you know what will be good for mankind?
I mean there's a question, isn't it, And that you
invest in something you can't tell the results of investing
in that. And you could look at an investment that
you think, well, Hanna write the look at that much
and be entirely wrong, and it turned out to be
absolutely fantastic for mankind. I mean, AI is a classic
of that, right bit Dolgi. But it might turn out
to be really good.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
There is a lot of consensus across the world. Fortunately,
ESG investments, impact investments, whatever you want to call it,
and you know what to avoid. You don't invest into
the defense sector. You don't invest into environmentally destructive companies.
And when you invest, you ask yourself. And we have
(29:11):
this philosophy of better ownership. If I own anything, how
will I be a better owner? And can I be
a better owner? And during our investment we ask ourselves
are we being a better owner? And you are tested
for that. We have a business here which is food business,
and anyone of you who like food zarthur Z, please
(29:33):
go and buy double of zarthur Z today cinnabon, five
guys and all those businesses. We were about to sell
this business and COVID came. We had one four hundred
and eighty six employees and the buyer, we told him
this is what's on the card with businesses. Food business
are going to suffer. He said, don't worry, I will
(29:54):
fire half of the workforce. We didn't sell the business.
We created in stayed a welfare fund, not from the
company's resources, but from the employees. We put our money
and we said we will not let you down. We
will not abandoned you. It was a terrible time. So
(30:16):
you invest into business in a way that you have
a responsibility as us toward but.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That will come as payback, right, and that those employees
will now be very loyal to the business.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
They are indeed, and if you go to Zartha and
Zeth you will get very good service.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
And now only I've just wanted to just ask you
briefly all the businesses that you invest in a private right,
you're not investing in listed businesses.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yes, we invest into private businesses. We invest into good
to better businesses, in education, in health care. We've just
invested a billion dollars in a healthcare company in the region.
And these are big opportunities to create an impact. And
when we invest into health care, we make sure that
we have a proposition for the people who can only
afford in the affordable segment of healthcare, but we also
(31:03):
have mid market and the premium segment, because you need
to make sure that you can use technology to have
an offering of the people who cannot afford the expensive
hospitals and to equalize.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, okay, right, have we got questions there? One is
the back here.
Speaker 7 (31:23):
So I have two questions. One is to Ashlyn m
and the other is just for anyone who would take
up the question. So my first question is about investing
and what advice would you have for young people that
want the young adults that want to venture into investing.
What advice do you have for us? And the other
(31:43):
one is more of a personal question. So, since I
aspired to become a business small girl, what skill should
I learn between negotiating or pitching? Which do you think
would just shoot me out there?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Isn't a tripod on the beach with the influencer kind of, I.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Just get a tripod. You're all good? Oh why didn't
you take the second one? Fast?
Speaker 6 (32:06):
I'll take the second one. I definitely think pitching is overrated.
I think no one ever people try to put their
best foot forward, but if you really care about something,
you become very nervous. So I think sometimes it just
takes someone getting to know you. So I've always found
that negotiation is always where I am strongest. It's my
(32:28):
strong suit. It also gives me time to calm down
because I get very excited about stuff and I don't
like to lose, and so I always just say the
negotiation is easier than the pitch.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Okay, eggbo pitch on negotiation.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I think I would say that you should follow your heart,
follow your passion. If work for your passion, that will
create your pension. You know, it's very very important to
do that. Money is a problem for mediocrity in whether
it's a corporate entity or a country or an individual.
Money is never ever a problem for excellence, So excel
(33:08):
in whatever you do.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, I need to contradict you here. I'm really sorry.
Don't like to do this with a panelist, but do
not follow your passions. Do not follow your passions, almost
certain that you will not be good at the thing
you're passionate about, or not good enough. Right, So I
always say to people, don't follow your passions. Get a
good job that does something useful, make some money, and
(33:30):
play your guitar in your spare time.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
I'm here to tell you that's exactly what happened. I
was a classical violinist. I thought I was going to
be a full time violinist and played in a couple
of symphonies. To Marin's point, I was not good enough
and I needed to eat, so my dad told me
to go into insurance.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Unless your passion is accountancy, you know, well why did
you do it? An investing you have for the young starting.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Out, invest in what you know, and invest in where
you know, and invest with whom you know. Avoid the
funds or investments where there is a lot of fee
built into it. So when you are young, you should
build an index fund which is low fees, because feast
(34:22):
eats up about twenty to twenty five percent of your
potential profitability and you can't time the market. Just every
month set aside. But the biggest investment which you can
make is in yourself. Invest in yourself, believe in yourself,
and excel in it. And with do apologies to the chair,
(34:44):
follow your heart, follow your passion.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
All right, I'll tell you what, apart from that very
last sentence, that was some of the best investing advice
I've ever heard. Absolut brilliant. Thank you. Right, take another
question on the corridor here, no corridor ale Hi.
Speaker 8 (35:00):
My question to Ashley. You mentioned deregulation, you know how
it's helped economy, you know at times, and you touch
based on that. My question is that the last time
there was a deregulation in US, we saw a big recession,
you know, financial deregulation. And I see now that you know,
there's a lot of deta regulation happening in the big text,
like you know, the net neutrality or I think some
(35:21):
today just some bodice of dad. What do you what's
your point on that?
Speaker 6 (35:27):
So, yes, okay, I can see that there could potentially
be an issue depending on how far the deregulation goes, right,
so you can curb inflation with how far you decide
to go with deregulation. If you're just gonna let the
floodgates open and let the SEC just close the blind
out everything, Yes, I could see that being a problem.
I think more nearly what Trump and a fool's theory
(35:49):
is to try to guess what he's thinking, right, But
what what I think he would like is to make
it a little bit easier. I think our past administration
had so many roadblocks and it made it so difficult
to get a deal done to even I mean, private
equity decided to just like stop looking at deals, to
(36:11):
just stop thinking about M and A altogether. And I
do think that that slows down an economy, right, that
people lose steam, they lose hope, they get bored. I
think in this instance it is picking up steam. You
are seeing more private equity deals, you are seeing people
talk about it. DeVos. I mean, for all of its
talk about you know, DEI, it was talk about the
(36:33):
fact that basically, yes, M and A it's looking more promising.
Private equity is looking to deploy more capital, and as
far as the US is concerned, that's good for us, right,
I mean, we like when we're able to acquire things.
I'm sure you've noticed.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
You know, our world has become a bottom line society.
We measure every relationship about how much money can we
make and and it's led by America. America has a
statue of liberty, which means free markets, which is what
Adam Smith wanted. But if Adam Smith had his way,
he would have created a statue of responsibility in America.
(37:14):
And I think the deregulation, unfettered control is will be
disastrous for America. Quantitative easing is very inflationary. The fact
that banks have control over financial interimidiation in the payment system.
It is the only industry in which you can in
(37:36):
good times privatize the profits, in bad times socialize the
losses because the bank's control the payment systems. The other
thing which is very important is that the difference between
corporate banking, commercial banking and investment banking. Way back, we
would remember in history there were two senators called Senator
(37:57):
Glass and Senator's Teagle had a Glass Degal act to
make sure America does not have any great depression. Markets
go in cycles. I think we are at the high
point of the cycles, and every country has a responsibility
to the people who are not well off. How many
(38:19):
people are going to be heard by this deregulation, by
this bottom line society which we are creating.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
If I might just add on Adam Smith, the group
of people he was most concerned with, if you across
his texts, was the poor. Those are the people that
he was most concerned with, and he wanted to unleash
their creativity. And so I think we can always look
back to Smith and I assume he's this rabid free
(38:49):
market here. It was always again this idea of responsibility
and allowing for everyone to flourish, which.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Is why you picture your quote from moral sentiments.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Right Indeed, and Adam, you know that the world, as
I said earlier, we are becoming a majority minority nation.
The world is decivilizing. Today. You walk in the UK,
you could be stabbed with a knife for no reason.
In America, a bullet can hit you. All of Africa
is decivilizing. What happened to Sudan in many countries. But
(39:22):
I think we should always remember that when we classify
human beings as them in us, in the final analysis,
there is no them, It's all us. We could be
in that position where we could be an immigrant and
we could be looking for a job So our responsibility
(39:43):
toward those who are less fortunate is a sacred responsibility Smithian,
and and those who take care of it are going
to be blessed in every possible way.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I want to take you back to something you said
earlier about markets going in cycles and at the peak
of the market cycle. Is that something that you would
follow across the stock market. So we've talked about the
US market briefly earlier, and we talked about how wanted
invest when one's young. If you're young and you're starting investing,
should you be avoiding the American stock market?
Speaker 4 (40:17):
No, not necessarily. There is always in the stock market
companies which create value. So you must invest with your
heart as well, and mind your heart is that I
want to invest in a company which does good, a
company which is run by good people, by honest people,
a company which is fair. See, competence and excellence are interlinked,
(40:43):
and integrity and competence are also interlinked.
Speaker 6 (40:46):
Okay, I just have one final thought. The equities in
the US are valued pretty high right now.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Right.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
I think any great portfolio manager or any prudent individual,
especially if you are investing when you're young, it's costing
too much to buy into the US stock market, you
could potentially offset that cost by probably investing in the
UK stock market to say, right, because the US stock market,
(41:14):
the UK stock market, I mean, there aren't very many there,
but there is something you can find something there.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
It's quite a lord left good lord.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
Yes, there's something there. So I always just think that
good portfolio management is Yes, it is going to be
very difficult to buy into the US stock market right now,
especially if you're young, especially if funds are not just limitless,
and good portfolio management would be to look at the
UK stock market, to look at some of the other
(41:44):
larger stock markets, you know, Sweden, wherever, to just kind
if you want to just get your foot in the door. Obviously,
I'd probably start with the UK after the US.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
What about the regional stock markets here?
Speaker 6 (41:57):
Yes, I I I like the stock market the regional
stock market here, and there are obviously some very large
brands that are currently on that are currently listed, and
they are trading very well, and they're also getting look
sie from global markets. This is also a very good
place to invest obviously.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
In the meanwhile, do invest into gold as a head
against inflation.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yes, I love gold, I love gol too Google.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yes, so we as we discussed today the inflation problems
and that the lot of countries haven't recovered after the
COVID and the recession makes us, like university students, all
of us questions like how we should tend out? What
should you do to make your feel like yourself turned out?
Especially with all these projections, with the recessions and stuff.
(42:48):
But yeah, like I would love to hear from you
and like in the region and overall in the UK,
and you ask, it's very important, I feel like for
all of us here, So I am.
Speaker 9 (42:57):
So.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
I went to UNI in the US for a grad school,
and the reason why I actually did get a job
is because I left the US. So I think you
all are in a very unique position and in a position,
quite honestly, where you are much more marketable because you
have an international background. You know, you're not sitting. I mean,
I went to Texas A and m It's a fine school,
(43:21):
created some geniuses. But after that I took a job
that moved me to Manana, and because I was one
of the few people that was willing to move and
to go somewhere else. I think the problem is is
if you benchmark your success against a US graduate. It's
not It doesn't make any sense because a US graduate
(43:42):
wants to stay in the US, that job market is small.
If you are an international NBA student and you are
fine with moving to Singapore, you are going to fare
much better right because you are interested in moving around
and quite honestly, you're doing the opposite of what the
US is trying to do. Anyway, You're becoming more global.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
The most important attribute you can have as a young
graduate is to believe in yourself emotional resilience and remember.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
That passion again but no, no.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Not passion, emotional resilience, and you remember that you will
face rejection after rejection. Every know always leads to a
better yes. And you've got to believe that there is
an opportunity which is tailor made for you. It is
waiting for you, if only you would believe.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I still don't know what I want to do when
I grow up, and I think that's but it's important
because I think it's it's this journey where especially as
an academic, it's it's a marathon. It's not a sprint.
It's it's it's how long you can persist. But it's
about finding opportunities and trying new things and being willing
to take risks, moving to different countries. And I think
(44:52):
that's the more enjoyable. It's enjoy the process rather than
oh how much my making, because good opportunities will come.
Speaker 10 (44:59):
Mike was in today's to mister Khan. So many years
defunds focus on environmental factors, wherein it is very difficult
to quantify the social impacts that actually has. So how
could investors like you or anyone who's actually investing into
mankind ensure their money is truly driving a positive social
(45:21):
change in this world?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Okay? What are the parameters for certainty?
Speaker 4 (45:24):
So the one line answer, as directed by the chairperson,
we don't have a democracy here is that look at
the rankings of the ESG fund. It is published, it
is rated, and go for the top upper courtile and
you will be well served.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I have used here, but I'm going to leave us
to one side. Now other questions. We have another one
on the ile here, thank you.
Speaker 9 (45:50):
So we are in the UAE where the epicenter. We
can see that our brewer and our baker are fighting
out they what are the opportunity is that the UAE
has today in the next four or five years of
this whole geopolitical landscape in terms of growing this economy.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Okay, good question. I'll tell you what we're gonna. We're
gonna We're gonna make that a shorter question and say,
I'm a graduate today, which sector am I gonna look
for work in if I'm staying in the UA?
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Insurance, finance, Tourism in Dubai. If you are working and
you get into tourism objective, but that's growing very fast,
but the government depends on your specialization as well.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
So that's my answer to tourism, insurance.
Speaker 11 (46:34):
Last question, My question is about real estate investment. And
as you could see, I mean the regionally, there is
a real estate bomb, especially in Dubai. And what is
your take on the real estate investment locally and globally
looking at the historical cycles of ups and down.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
So real estate is at the moment in the real
and in the world, but especially in the region, very high.
So it's closer to the highs and closer to a
correction than at the bottom. But you know, both bottom
picking or the calling the top is a very risky business.
Maybe it'll grow up by another fifteen twenty thirty percent,
(47:18):
but it has already grown up so much that you
have to be careful. And in the real estate, it's
about location, which everybody used to call it's about a
specification and how you structure your investments. That become very weird.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
I was hoping you were going to say that if
you were going to buy a house of some kind
in a topy market like this, you should buy one
you have a passion for.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
You don't like the word passion to you.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
You have a problem.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
I just worry that we give people with that.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
People expect to be able to follow their passion and
make a career out of it, and so often that
such a ali I want people to try and be practical,
That's all I love to agree.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
If you're a married man, let your wife choose the house.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
All right, we're gonna We're gonna have to end it there.
Thank you, ri Well, thank you Asley, thank you Adam,
thank you so much for going today. Thanks, thank you,
thank you so much to Harriet what for hosting us today.
Has been absolutely wonderful, and Heather, thank you so much
to you for facilitating all of this. Now we can clap.
(48:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Thanks for listening to this.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Week's Marrying Talks Money. If you like our show, rate review,
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and keep sending
questions or comments to Merroring Money at Bloomberg dot net.
You can also follow me and John on Twitter or
x I'm at Marinus w and John is John Underscore Epic.
This is a It was hosted by Me Maren Zamsette Web.
The show was produced by Someasadi and Moses and sound
(49:05):
designed by Blake Maples. Special thanks to the team with
Harriet What and of course to all our guests Adam Dixon,
Ashley Hunter and Ikpal Khan.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to Marin Talks Money,
the podcast in which people who know the markets explain
the markets. I'm Meren sum zet Word. This week we're
(00:23):
bringing you a panel I hosted in Dubai last week.
It was at the Herriot wat University Campus, which is
part of the Edinburgh Business School. With me on stage
was Adam Dixon, Chair of Sustainable Capitalism at PAMA House,
Ashley Hunter, founding partner of a Hunter Company, which is
a global risk management, advisory and consultant firm, and Ikval Kahan,
CEO of Farja Capital, which is an impact driven investment firm.
(00:48):
We spoke for nearly an hour about what Adam Smith
might make of Donald Trump's tariff policies, about tax rules,
about deregulation, and about where the passion should factor into
your career planning. So for this week's episode of bringing
an edited version of that conversation and to keep the
traditional live, we started as we do it, our friends
shows and the panelist shows a favorite Adam Smith quote
(01:08):
to kick off the conversation. Here is my panel in Dubai,
starting with Adam Dixon sharing his favorite Adam Smith quote.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
The one problem about smith quotes is that he wrote
in the eighteenth century, and I don't know. I'm a
native speaker, and I even find understanding Smith's writing to
be difficult, so I'll try to read slowly. And my
quote comes from the Theory of Moral Sentiments, not his
more famous book The Wealth of Nations. And my quote
(01:39):
is the great body of the party are commonly intoxicated
with the imaginary beauty of this ideal system of which
they have no experience, but which has been represented to
them in all the most dazzling colors, in which the
eloquence of their leaders could paint it excellent.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
One of my favorite quotes. Why did you choose that quote?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So I chose this quote not to pick on Donald Trump.
I will be very diplomatic in what I have to say,
but given that we're what two or three weeks into
the Trump presidency, every day is a new executive order
that dismantles some part of the US government, both domestically
(02:29):
and internationally. There's threats of tariffs against Canada and Mexico,
which you know, twenty four hours after the fact, are stopped,
and everyone's thinking, what's going to happen? Next in the
Trump Show. It's quite entertaining. I don't know what Ashley
thinks about it, but I thought, and again, this is
not to critique Trump or to give an opinion on
(02:50):
what is transpiring.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
But why I chose.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It is basically to set people at ease. I'm always
shocked that people believe every single thing that Trump says.
You know, he's been president before, he said a lot
of things. Does he believe everything he says? I don't
think so. But you talk to people and they think, oh,
the United States is gonna invade Greenland, and you think, really,
(03:16):
it's not gonna invade Greenland.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
The United States is gonna leave NATO, It's not gonna
do that. And so I think I just wanted to
because Trump is so eloquent, not He's so bombastic in
his pronouncements on what he wants.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
To do, and people believe it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
This grandeur of make America great again. Actually we should
step back a bit and say, well, actually, does he
believe everything he says? Maybe, but that we should also
remember that. And this is what Smith was writing about
was he was very much a conservative conservative in the
sense of he did not like revolutions of the like
(03:57):
that Trump is promising because he thinks there disruptive in
a bad way. And so I think we all need
to look at Trump as being, yes, an interesting force,
and some of the things he's doing will be disruptive,
but we shouldn't necessarily believe everything that we're hearing.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's also, I mean, one of the senses of this
quote is that everyone believes that there is an ideal
system under which one should live, but in fact, the
most effective system is the muddle through a system that
we all live in, the one where you do. Everyone
does the best they can on any particular day, and
we know from attempts to create idyllic glands, yes, that
it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, absolutely, and that's that's That's exactly the point. This,
this man of system, as he calls that, this who
offers the people this ideal system is usually a charlatan.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, there is no ideal system. But I suppose the
other question is should we believe him more this time
because this is his second term, he's not looking to
be re elected again. We hope that this is a
this is a this is a fo one and done,
and that means that he might be prepared. This time around,
his government is better prepared, the systems around him are better.
(05:08):
But also he may be prepared to follow through in
a much more risk friendly way to him than he
might have been in his first term.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So two responses that one, sometimes change is good, sometimes
disruption is good. Right, So we shouldn't necessarily and this
is again I don't want to make a give a
position on whether I think something is good or bad,
but just to say that change in any country and
any government is not necessarily a bad thing. So some
of the changes that he and his ministration want to
(05:39):
make may be good. Obviously that means some may be
incredibly bad. The other point to mention is, and sorry
for the lesson on American politics and American government, is
that there, in principles, should be three co equal branches
of government, and the executive branch is not the most powerful.
(06:03):
There's still the Congress, and there's still the judiciary. Judiciary,
excuse me. And in principle too, there's fifty states with
as well decentralized forms of power. And this was also
something that was very much discussed in the eighteenth century
among the likes of Adam Smith and just to say,
then that means that, yes, his administration might be prepared,
(06:26):
but there's still Congress and there's still the judiciary. And
if Congress goes along with it, well, then that's what
the people voted for.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
When we have the first thing that pops into my
head when you say we should have these three equal
parts of government. And perhaps in the US sometimes like now,
maybe the executive has too much power. In the UK,
we now coming to the belief that the judiciary has
far too much power. And that's a different type of problem. Actually,
I know you wanted to say something there. Again, I
could feel it.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
You know what, I adam to your point. I think
that some disruptive behavior is good. I think when this
ruption becomes a vehicle from like turning away from what
is important, I think then it becomes a problem. So
I think currently what we have is an administration that
(07:12):
is trying to create chaos so that we don't realize
all the trouble that we are about to encounter.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
But Trump did say before he was during the campaign
that he didn't want to tax Americans that are living abroad.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
No, No, don't we jumping any guns.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, I'm not jumping a gun, just foreshadowing some discussion.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
But let me ask both of you. Then let me
ask both of you, and if you have a thought here,
you've talked about some change being good, some change being bad,
some disruption being good. What are the things, because we're
not a negative podcast, what are the things that are
happening under this new administration that you might approve of,
that you might say, well, this is good, this is good,
this should happen.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
I think he's very business. I think he's pro business.
And for someone who owns a business, who sold businesses,
who likes business, I think he has created an air
of we're open for business, and I think that that
means that we're going to have less regulation. I think
that that means that we're going to have less hoops
to jump through. I think M and A will actually
(08:11):
start to pick up again, which we did not have
under the past administration. So, to be quite honest with you, yes,
as far as business is concerned right now, I'm optimistic.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, but what about Okay, here's one another one of
my favorite quotes. I'm just going to chuck right out
you here. Okay, by means of glasses, hotbeds, and hot wolves.
Very good grapes can be raised in Scotland. That's not
actually true, by the way, I'm just passulous. And very
good wine too can be made of them at about
thirty times the expense for which at least equally good
(08:42):
can be bought from foreign countries. Would it be a
reasonable law to prohibit the importation of all foreign wines
merely to encourage the making of Clarence and Burgundy in Scotland.
So that's Adam smith view on tariffs. Very bad thing.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
What Okay, I am not a projectionist. I think if
it makes more sense to get it somewhere else for cheaper,
I mean, there are a lot of women right now
who are going to be very upset that they're not
getting their sheine and tamu.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Ok, you'll need to explain that not everybody will understand
that reference.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
So in America there are two very dominant low cost
e commerce and women in America on TikTok, which is
another thing that we love. They do their sheine hals
where you can effectively buy a month's worth of clothing
for about five bucks. And now the United States Postal
(09:39):
Service has now decided that they're no longer going to
accept shipments from China or Hong Kong, which basically means
that all of the sheene and Tamu halls that are
happening on TikTok, which my husband can attest to, takes
up the majority of my evening. It is going to
go considerably down now that this is no longer available.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Now this is related to it. It's related to the
removal of an exemption for duty paid on packages coming
into the US with under eight hundred.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Dollars, right and along with the fact that they're just
in this tear war, I mean he left the tariffs
on China that that is not going to make them happy.
They're looking for all ways to like disrupt any company
doing business there. At Google, Apple, They're all now being.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
The Chinese stock market has reacted very happily to these
terrfs being lower than expected. So bad expectation management.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
You have to manage your expectations. But I think to
some degree this is not going to end well for
anybody in the US because we actually source so many
of our goods from Chinese manufacturers. I mean, all of
Trump's merch comes from China.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
True, But okay, well, let's let's look at it. Like this.
Let me let me ask Adam. Then. I mean, the
reason that he wants to do this is because of
the hollowing out of the manufacturing base in the US,
which is a very bad thing in lots of ways
because it removes high quality, high income jobs from the US.
And also it's a national shit security problem at a
time of geopolitical difficulty. So there are strong reasons to
think that one should try and encourage not necessarily the
(11:07):
making of more burgundy in the US, but certainly the
building of new manufacturing plants that could enhance incomes in
the US and also provide national security over the long term.
So in that sense, could you argue with a small
tariff on stuff coming from China.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So I mean, what you've highlighted, though, is there's a
schism in the Republican Party and there's the say free trade,
Wall Street journal reading crowd, and then there's the more
nationalist wing of the party. And I think that schism
is something to watch because this is where Trump's tariffs
(11:47):
will be fought out. It's interesting though, that what happened
with Mexico and Canada just over the last twenty four
hours is that threatened tariffs and then actually we're going
to pause them, right, So this is much of it
as a negotiating tactic on China. Again, the tariffs aren't
as high as they expected, because again, will Trump be
(12:11):
able to rebuild the American manufacturing classes when Elon Musk
is automating production and manufacture and we.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Have so maybe we just don't need the manufacturing classes,
but we need the manufacturing plants.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I want to say that Montesquieu when he talked about
separation of powers legislature, executive, judiciary as the way to
run a government, we have a fourth class of power
and influence, which is the multi billionaire class called Elon Musk,
and he is trying to completely destroy the American civil
(12:51):
service and he has a view on everything and this
tariffs are very inflationary. We have seen this as script playout.
And as far as mister Trump is concerned, second term
Trump has been waiting for a long time to come
up with policies and second Trump. Second term US presidents
(13:12):
are hardly accountable. There are those who think about their
legacy and there are those who think about themselves. I
think mister Trump is in the later category, where he
has to do everything as a Trump perspective, his perspective,
his family's perspective. And I think this will be very
inflationary for the world because he's singularly responsible for deglobalizing
(13:36):
the world economy, and we will all pay the price
that inflation will come roaring back. And when inflation comes,
it takes long time to come, but it takes longer
to subdue it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
But doesn't it feel like we've already got that? And
certainly in the worst we have that hangover from COVID,
it hasn't quite left us. Those pulses are still coming
and we can see it constantly in the wage numbers.
You notice the rather high wage numbers out of Japan
this week. You know, we see it pulsing again and again.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, but I think, you know, putting on tariffs and
creating an environment where Trump is going to do this
or that. Whether he does it or not, it is
destabilizing the world and the deglobalization which is happening all
across the world majority minority nations, where the majority in
every country feels that they are a minority. The world
(14:30):
is being divided into them and us, which is not
the outcome which we want. And I think it is
leading to the world being decivilized. I mean, go to Africa.
The impact of tariffs, the impact of inflation, the impact
of on currencies of the emerging market is huge. And
I think this will all play out in the next
(14:52):
four years. And remember that the legacy has the control
of the executive. He has the control of his cabinet,
which he should as a president, but he also has
control over the judiciary. So the separation of powers is
kind of becoming very weak in America. In such an environment,
(15:13):
it's easy to take wrong policies without much debate and
make things worse for the world as a whole.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay, goth challenge for you. One positive of two term Trump.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I think Trump is a doer, so it's better to
have take action than rather have inaction. We had four
years of Biden's inaction and as a result, economic policy, political,
international peace all suffered. Whether you agree with Trump or not,
(15:46):
he is a doer and I think he will do things.
If he gets majority of the things right, then he
will have a positive impact.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I think we're going to go onto a second quote, Ashley,
Can I move on to you?
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (16:01):
The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the
support of the government as nearly as possible in proportion
to their respective abilities, that is, in proportion to the
revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Of the state.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
I obviously, I'm sure you can tell. I'm American, and
I am a little bitter because unlike many of my
friends who are expats, they enjoy the ability to not
pay taxes in their respective countries. However, as an American,
the IRS follows me every year they find me, and
(16:40):
every year I send them money. And I don't live
in the US. I do not enjoy the spoils of
living on US soil. Yet I still pay to contribute
to everyone else to enjoy the riches of my labor
in the UAE.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But Ashton, don't you feel that what you're paying for
is the right to hold an American passport? And there
are an awful lot of people who would pay an
awful lot to hold the passport that you have, And
so paying that tax is simply the passport premium that
(17:20):
you owe to the country that protects you.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
One might say that, but there are a lot of
other countries out here that offer up protections for a
lot less than not pay for mine.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Well, maybe they're wrong, I mean, but it is a problem,
isn't it. I mean this idea that the tax you
pay should be connected to the services, one way or
another that you receive. And of course there is a
price for being citizen. Of course, there is a price
for holding a passport to a country that allows you
have an American falls pretty high up when it comes
to the passport index every year that tells you how
(17:54):
many countries you can go to visa free for example.
You know it's near the top, along with the UK
passports and a lot of other European mines, etc. So
there's something to there's some value in that. But then
you get to the point where you feel, as you
do a lot of countries at the moment, that you're
paying an awful lot and not getting much back. I
mean the statistic that is always thrown around in the
UK at the moment everyone hates rich people in the UK.
(18:17):
At the moment we hate rich people, which is why
they're all coming to live here in Dubai. The top
one percent of income taxpayers in the UK pay twenty
eight percent of all income tax. They earn around thirteen
percent of all income. So we're no longer living with
a progressive system. We're living with an ultra ultra progressive system.
(18:37):
And if you, of course you get nothing for yours
zero zero, how would you change that system?
Speaker 6 (18:43):
I think we should have a global flat tax, a.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Global flat tax at what level?
Speaker 6 (18:50):
I haven't gotten there yet. I'll let Adam sort those
details out. But I don't have an issue with tax.
I just think that it should be distributed. There just
needs to be a better job because obviously America does
provide some level of comfort insecurity, and I'm sure others
(19:11):
also enjoy that security and safety. So a global flat
tax to me seems like a nice, healthy like middle ground.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, temp cent or so ten seven.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
America.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
But in that sense, I mean, you're coming out more
and more as a Trump supporter every second, and that
you know one thing, one thing that is happening in
the US is that if he has his way with
the American bureaucracy, and we were speaking earlier, won't we
about US eight and the extraordinary things that American taxpayer
money ends up being spent on. If he has his
way with the bureaucracy, if he manages to reduce the
(19:50):
cost of government very significantly, and he's talking about them
being able to bring down tax raids very significantly. You mean,
and will be sitting here in four years and you'll
be going that that Donald Trump, what a guy.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
Perhaps at this juncture, I do not see it. I
think trying to unravel the United States federal government with
all of its problems. It is a functioning, dysfunctional organization,
and there is something inherently comfortable in the disorganization because
(20:23):
you at least know that every month Social Security checks
will be sent out on a certain day. Right if
you are on assistant living, you do realize that those
payments will come every month. Is it functional? Absolutely not?
Does the VA have holes? Are there issues?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (20:40):
But there is something about having functional government and trying
to dismantle it like it is a corporation. To me,
I just I cannot see that happening, and I don't
see it working. He can try now. I do stand
behind his text.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I see it.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
There is another very famous Adam Swifth quote that first
to tax, that I also like the tax which each
individual is bound to pay ought to be certain and arbitrary,
the time of payment, the manner of payment, the quantity
to be paid, ought all to be clear and planned
the contributor and to every other person. And I know
(21:17):
that the tax code in the US is out of control.
The tax code in the UK is completely out of control.
We normally when we talk about the tax code, we
talk about it in terms of the works of Shakespeare.
It is longer than the whole the entirety of his production,
but is also of course significantly longer than the Wealth
of Nations, which and I do believe all of you
who said you read it, but it is very, very long.
(21:38):
The UK tax code is now longer than the wealth
of nations moral sentiments combined times A couple of times
i'd say, so it doesn't. It no longer fits any
smith rules about tax. Now you all have views on
tax and how it should be charged and how it
should be paid.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
The thing about tax is this, it only goes up,
whether it is vad or personal tax sation, corporate taxation.
My view on taxation I've been a resident of the
United Kingdom is and I paid taxes over a long
period of time, is that my money goes for good causes.
It doesn't go for causes, which I don't believe in it,
(22:14):
and I pay taxes happily because it is helping those
who are in need. But I think actually you could
move to France and call yourself that you are an
artist and you will get taxed at zero person.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yes, or in Ireland. You can do that in Ireland
as well.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Taxation is also a mechanism to attract people of talent
to your country, and the French government, with all their
bureaucracy I have done it very well. So I suggest
that Ashley considers moving to France and giving her American
nationality after five years.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
Okay, no, I'm staying in the US. For any Americans listening.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I'm just curious to ask a question about taxes here
in the UAE. Europe is very high. Tax in the
US spit lower than Europe and UK, but it's still high,
whereas here in the UAE and around the Gulf generally
taxes are low to non existent. At what point will
do Bay have to start taxing?
Speaker 4 (23:18):
But we do have taxation, We have VAT and there
are certain items which are exempted, and we AT across
the GCC is increasing, and I think taxation in personal
form will not happen for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So actually will be Okay.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Okay, I am not being taxed in this lovely country.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Okay, But here's a question for you, then, Adam, in
the US, once AI has produced the most extraordinary productivity
boom and changed everything, streamlined the bureaucracy of the country,
and also reduced the costs of doing almost everything to nothing,
we won't require to acts in the usiver or is
(24:02):
it too much false promise in AI? Do think?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't know what to think about AI. I think
there's a lot of hype around it. I think the
very specific tasks will be automated clerical work. So I
think the question, though, that you're wanting to get at,
is will large swaths of the public not have jobs?
And therefore what we have to start thinking about things
like universal basic income or some kind of support. I
(24:25):
don't think that's going to happen. I think will be
a very long time. And I think, like with other
technological advances and changes, we've always found other things to do.
And let's go back to what John Maynard Kines called for.
I said, wouldn't be nice to have a twenty hour week?
I mean, if we could work less but then be
more productive. So I think, But I mean the real
question is is productivity in America is very good and
(24:47):
very high. What I'm really concerned about is productivity in
old Europe and old UK, which is flat lined. This
region of the world. There's lots of productivity and there's
a lot of dynamism, which I think is useful to see.
So I think that that's the real kind of question.
Is America will be fine for the most part. Ashley
might not come back, but you know, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So is there an AI bubble in the US? You
said there's a lot of hype around it?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Well, I mean what we saw recently with this deep
seek and that kind of spooked the markets. And I
still think there's probably money to be made, obviously over
the long term on those companies that have the data
that can feed into AI models. But it's going to
be the specific uses of AI and those companies that
can take not the big, large language models, but the
(25:34):
more specific ones and use them to do things like
find the cure for cancer or you solve some problem
that we have. That's where I think money can be made.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
We often get the question about what should I study
at university with AI? Or the jobs will be gone,
et cetera, et cetera. And we always say the same thing,
you cannot imagine the jobs of the future. We know
they will come, but you cannot imagine them. And I
saw that in action today on the beach here in Dubai.
Twenty years ago. There is no way I would ever
believe for a second that anyone could make a living
as an influencer. But here on the beach endless people
(26:09):
taking photographs of themselves, you know, setting up little tripods
and posing around the place, et cetera. And I said
to the kids, well, earth are they doing? And you
know their influencers. This is a career we couldn't have
imagined twenty years ago. How I mean, it's not what
I strictly approve of, but how extraordinarily creative we are
in the production of these jobs.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Do you go out and see influences all over the place.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Not really, but they do impact our businesses. We have
food businesses which we use the influencers to bring more
customers in. So there are some businesses where they do
work very well.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Free food excellent.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So the cote which I have chosen is a very
personal quote for me. It is from the Theory of
Moral Sense Sentiment seventeen fifty nine. For to what purpose
is all the toil and bustle of this world? What
is the end of avarice and ambition, of the pursuit
of wealth, power and pre eminence? And I chose this
(27:09):
courte because when I was in a school in India,
studying in a Roman Catholic school as a Muslim, and
I read a poem written by Thomas Gray, an elegy
written in a country churchyard, and in that he says,
the path of greatness and glory lead but to the grave.
(27:32):
At the end of our lives. None of us will
take anything with us. We are merely trustees and custodians.
And as trustees and custodians, we have been given a
very big responsibility. We are the vice regents of this world.
Whether it is the environment, whether it is the climate,
whether it is healthcare, we have big responsibilities. So I
(27:57):
chose this because this is the ultimate reality of life.
And the purpose of an economy is to build a fairer,
just and a better world for all.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And how does that affect the way you invest?
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Well? We are an ethical firm. We run on the
Islamic principle which is called sharia, and if one sentence
can describe it, we invest in that which is good
for mankind. In the Quran there is a word called
yenphone nas We invest in that which is good for mankind.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
How do you know what will be good for mankind?
I mean there's a question, isn't it, And that you
invest in something you can't tell the results of investing
in that. And you could look at an investment that
you think, well, Hanna write the look at that much
and be entirely wrong, and it turned out to be
absolutely fantastic for mankind. I mean, AI is a classic
of that, right bit Dolgi. But it might turn out
to be really good.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
There is a lot of consensus across the world. Fortunately,
ESG investments, impact investments, whatever you want to call it,
and you know what to avoid. You don't invest into
the defense sector. You don't invest into environmentally destructive companies.
And when you invest, you ask yourself. And we have
(29:11):
this philosophy of better ownership. If I own anything, how
will I be a better owner? And can I be
a better owner? And during our investment we ask ourselves
are we being a better owner? And you are tested
for that. We have a business here which is food business,
and anyone of you who like food zarthur Z, please
(29:33):
go and buy double of zarthur Z today cinnabon, five
guys and all those businesses. We were about to sell
this business and COVID came. We had one four hundred
and eighty six employees and the buyer, we told him
this is what's on the card with businesses. Food business
are going to suffer. He said, don't worry, I will
(29:54):
fire half of the workforce. We didn't sell the business.
We created in stayed a welfare fund, not from the
company's resources, but from the employees. We put our money
and we said we will not let you down. We
will not abandoned you. It was a terrible time. So
(30:16):
you invest into business in a way that you have
a responsibility as us toward but.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That will come as payback, right, and that those employees
will now be very loyal to the business.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
They are indeed, and if you go to Zartha and
Zeth you will get very good service.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
And now only I've just wanted to just ask you
briefly all the businesses that you invest in a private right,
you're not investing in listed businesses.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yes, we invest into private businesses. We invest into good
to better businesses, in education, in health care. We've just
invested a billion dollars in a healthcare company in the region.
And these are big opportunities to create an impact. And
when we invest into health care, we make sure that
we have a proposition for the people who can only
afford in the affordable segment of healthcare, but we also
(31:03):
have mid market and the premium segment, because you need
to make sure that you can use technology to have
an offering of the people who cannot afford the expensive
hospitals and to equalize.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, okay, right, have we got questions there? One is
the back here.
Speaker 7 (31:23):
So I have two questions. One is to Ashlyn m
and the other is just for anyone who would take
up the question. So my first question is about investing
and what advice would you have for young people that
want the young adults that want to venture into investing.
What advice do you have for us? And the other
(31:43):
one is more of a personal question. So, since I
aspired to become a business small girl, what skill should
I learn between negotiating or pitching? Which do you think
would just shoot me out there?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Isn't a tripod on the beach with the influencer kind of, I.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Just get a tripod. You're all good? Oh why didn't
you take the second one? Fast?
Speaker 6 (32:06):
I'll take the second one. I definitely think pitching is overrated.
I think no one ever people try to put their
best foot forward, but if you really care about something,
you become very nervous. So I think sometimes it just
takes someone getting to know you. So I've always found
that negotiation is always where I am strongest. It's my
(32:28):
strong suit. It also gives me time to calm down
because I get very excited about stuff and I don't
like to lose, and so I always just say the
negotiation is easier than the pitch.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Okay, eggbo pitch on negotiation.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I think I would say that you should follow your heart,
follow your passion. If work for your passion, that will
create your pension. You know, it's very very important to
do that. Money is a problem for mediocrity in whether
it's a corporate entity or a country or an individual.
Money is never ever a problem for excellence, So excel
(33:08):
in whatever you do.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, I need to contradict you here. I'm really sorry.
Don't like to do this with a panelist, but do
not follow your passions. Do not follow your passions, almost
certain that you will not be good at the thing
you're passionate about, or not good enough. Right, So I
always say to people, don't follow your passions. Get a
good job that does something useful, make some money, and
(33:30):
play your guitar in your spare time.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
I'm here to tell you that's exactly what happened. I
was a classical violinist. I thought I was going to
be a full time violinist and played in a couple
of symphonies. To Marin's point, I was not good enough
and I needed to eat, so my dad told me
to go into insurance.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Unless your passion is accountancy, you know, well why did
you do it? An investing you have for the young starting.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Out, invest in what you know, and invest in where
you know, and invest with whom you know. Avoid the
funds or investments where there is a lot of fee
built into it. So when you are young, you should
build an index fund which is low fees, because feast
(34:22):
eats up about twenty to twenty five percent of your
potential profitability and you can't time the market. Just every
month set aside. But the biggest investment which you can
make is in yourself. Invest in yourself, believe in yourself,
and excel in it. And with do apologies to the chair,
(34:44):
follow your heart, follow your passion.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
All right, I'll tell you what, apart from that very
last sentence, that was some of the best investing advice
I've ever heard. Absolut brilliant. Thank you. Right, take another
question on the corridor here, no corridor ale Hi.
Speaker 8 (35:00):
My question to Ashley. You mentioned deregulation, you know how
it's helped economy, you know at times, and you touch
based on that. My question is that the last time
there was a deregulation in US, we saw a big recession,
you know, financial deregulation. And I see now that you know,
there's a lot of deta regulation happening in the big text,
like you know, the net neutrality or I think some
(35:21):
today just some bodice of dad. What do you what's
your point on that?
Speaker 6 (35:27):
So, yes, okay, I can see that there could potentially
be an issue depending on how far the deregulation goes, right,
so you can curb inflation with how far you decide
to go with deregulation. If you're just gonna let the
floodgates open and let the SEC just close the blind
out everything, Yes, I could see that being a problem.
I think more nearly what Trump and a fool's theory
(35:49):
is to try to guess what he's thinking, right, But
what what I think he would like is to make
it a little bit easier. I think our past administration
had so many roadblocks and it made it so difficult
to get a deal done to even I mean, private
equity decided to just like stop looking at deals, to
(36:11):
just stop thinking about M and A altogether. And I
do think that that slows down an economy, right, that
people lose steam, they lose hope, they get bored. I
think in this instance it is picking up steam. You
are seeing more private equity deals, you are seeing people
talk about it. DeVos. I mean, for all of its
talk about you know, DEI, it was talk about the
(36:33):
fact that basically, yes, M and A it's looking more promising.
Private equity is looking to deploy more capital, and as
far as the US is concerned, that's good for us, right,
I mean, we like when we're able to acquire things.
I'm sure you've noticed.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
You know, our world has become a bottom line society.
We measure every relationship about how much money can we
make and and it's led by America. America has a
statue of liberty, which means free markets, which is what
Adam Smith wanted. But if Adam Smith had his way,
he would have created a statue of responsibility in America.
(37:14):
And I think the deregulation, unfettered control is will be
disastrous for America. Quantitative easing is very inflationary. The fact
that banks have control over financial interimidiation in the payment system.
It is the only industry in which you can in
(37:36):
good times privatize the profits, in bad times socialize the
losses because the bank's control the payment systems. The other
thing which is very important is that the difference between
corporate banking, commercial banking and investment banking. Way back, we
would remember in history there were two senators called Senator
(37:57):
Glass and Senator's Teagle had a Glass Degal act to
make sure America does not have any great depression. Markets
go in cycles. I think we are at the high
point of the cycles, and every country has a responsibility
to the people who are not well off. How many
(38:19):
people are going to be heard by this deregulation, by
this bottom line society which we are creating.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
If I might just add on Adam Smith, the group
of people he was most concerned with, if you across
his texts, was the poor. Those are the people that
he was most concerned with, and he wanted to unleash
their creativity. And so I think we can always look
back to Smith and I assume he's this rabid free
(38:49):
market here. It was always again this idea of responsibility
and allowing for everyone to flourish, which.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Is why you picture your quote from moral sentiments.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Right Indeed, and Adam, you know that the world, as
I said earlier, we are becoming a majority minority nation.
The world is decivilizing. Today. You walk in the UK,
you could be stabbed with a knife for no reason.
In America, a bullet can hit you. All of Africa
is decivilizing. What happened to Sudan in many countries. But
(39:22):
I think we should always remember that when we classify
human beings as them in us, in the final analysis,
there is no them, It's all us. We could be
in that position where we could be an immigrant and
we could be looking for a job So our responsibility
(39:43):
toward those who are less fortunate is a sacred responsibility Smithian,
and and those who take care of it are going
to be blessed in every possible way.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I want to take you back to something you said
earlier about markets going in cycles and at the peak
of the market cycle. Is that something that you would
follow across the stock market. So we've talked about the
US market briefly earlier, and we talked about how wanted
invest when one's young. If you're young and you're starting investing,
should you be avoiding the American stock market?
Speaker 4 (40:17):
No, not necessarily. There is always in the stock market
companies which create value. So you must invest with your
heart as well, and mind your heart is that I
want to invest in a company which does good, a
company which is run by good people, by honest people,
a company which is fair. See, competence and excellence are interlinked,
(40:43):
and integrity and competence are also interlinked.
Speaker 6 (40:46):
Okay, I just have one final thought. The equities in
the US are valued pretty high right now.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Right.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
I think any great portfolio manager or any prudent individual,
especially if you are investing when you're young, it's costing
too much to buy into the US stock market, you
could potentially offset that cost by probably investing in the
UK stock market to say, right, because the US stock market,
(41:14):
the UK stock market, I mean, there aren't very many there,
but there is something you can find something there.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
It's quite a lord left good lord.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
Yes, there's something there. So I always just think that
good portfolio management is Yes, it is going to be
very difficult to buy into the US stock market right now,
especially if you're young, especially if funds are not just limitless,
and good portfolio management would be to look at the
UK stock market, to look at some of the other
(41:44):
larger stock markets, you know, Sweden, wherever, to just kind
if you want to just get your foot in the door. Obviously,
I'd probably start with the UK after the US.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
What about the regional stock markets here?
Speaker 6 (41:57):
Yes, I I I like the stock market the regional
stock market here, and there are obviously some very large
brands that are currently on that are currently listed, and
they are trading very well, and they're also getting look
sie from global markets. This is also a very good
place to invest obviously.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
In the meanwhile, do invest into gold as a head
against inflation.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yes, I love gold, I love gol too Google.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yes, so we as we discussed today the inflation problems
and that the lot of countries haven't recovered after the
COVID and the recession makes us, like university students, all
of us questions like how we should tend out? What
should you do to make your feel like yourself turned out?
Especially with all these projections, with the recessions and stuff.
(42:48):
But yeah, like I would love to hear from you
and like in the region and overall in the UK,
and you ask, it's very important, I feel like for
all of us here, So I am.
Speaker 9 (42:57):
So.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
I went to UNI in the US for a grad school,
and the reason why I actually did get a job
is because I left the US. So I think you
all are in a very unique position and in a position,
quite honestly, where you are much more marketable because you
have an international background. You know, you're not sitting. I mean,
I went to Texas A and m It's a fine school,
(43:21):
created some geniuses. But after that I took a job
that moved me to Manana, and because I was one
of the few people that was willing to move and
to go somewhere else. I think the problem is is
if you benchmark your success against a US graduate. It's
not It doesn't make any sense because a US graduate
(43:42):
wants to stay in the US, that job market is small.
If you are an international NBA student and you are
fine with moving to Singapore, you are going to fare
much better right because you are interested in moving around
and quite honestly, you're doing the opposite of what the
US is trying to do. Anyway, You're becoming more global.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
The most important attribute you can have as a young
graduate is to believe in yourself emotional resilience and remember.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
That passion again but no, no.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Not passion, emotional resilience, and you remember that you will
face rejection after rejection. Every know always leads to a
better yes. And you've got to believe that there is
an opportunity which is tailor made for you. It is
waiting for you, if only you would believe.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I still don't know what I want to do when
I grow up, and I think that's but it's important
because I think it's it's this journey where especially as
an academic, it's it's a marathon. It's not a sprint.
It's it's it's how long you can persist. But it's
about finding opportunities and trying new things and being willing
to take risks, moving to different countries. And I think
(44:52):
that's the more enjoyable. It's enjoy the process rather than
oh how much my making, because good opportunities will come.
Speaker 10 (44:59):
Mike was in today's to mister Khan. So many years
defunds focus on environmental factors, wherein it is very difficult
to quantify the social impacts that actually has. So how
could investors like you or anyone who's actually investing into
mankind ensure their money is truly driving a positive social
(45:21):
change in this world?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Okay? What are the parameters for certainty?
Speaker 4 (45:24):
So the one line answer, as directed by the chairperson,
we don't have a democracy here is that look at
the rankings of the ESG fund. It is published, it
is rated, and go for the top upper courtile and
you will be well served.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I have used here, but I'm going to leave us
to one side. Now other questions. We have another one
on the ile here, thank you.
Speaker 9 (45:50):
So we are in the UAE where the epicenter. We
can see that our brewer and our baker are fighting
out they what are the opportunity is that the UAE
has today in the next four or five years of
this whole geopolitical landscape in terms of growing this economy.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Okay, good question. I'll tell you what we're gonna. We're
gonna We're gonna make that a shorter question and say,
I'm a graduate today, which sector am I gonna look
for work in if I'm staying in the UA?
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Insurance, finance, Tourism in Dubai. If you are working and
you get into tourism objective, but that's growing very fast,
but the government depends on your specialization as well.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
So that's my answer to tourism, insurance.
Speaker 11 (46:34):
Last question, My question is about real estate investment. And
as you could see, I mean the regionally, there is
a real estate bomb, especially in Dubai. And what is
your take on the real estate investment locally and globally
looking at the historical cycles of ups and down.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
So real estate is at the moment in the real
and in the world, but especially in the region, very high.
So it's closer to the highs and closer to a
correction than at the bottom. But you know, both bottom
picking or the calling the top is a very risky business.
Maybe it'll grow up by another fifteen twenty thirty percent,
(47:18):
but it has already grown up so much that you
have to be careful. And in the real estate, it's
about location, which everybody used to call it's about a
specification and how you structure your investments. That become very weird.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
I was hoping you were going to say that if
you were going to buy a house of some kind
in a topy market like this, you should buy one
you have a passion for.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
You don't like the word passion to you.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
You have a problem.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
I just worry that we give people with that.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
People expect to be able to follow their passion and
make a career out of it, and so often that
such a ali I want people to try and be practical,
That's all I love to agree.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
If you're a married man, let your wife choose the house.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
All right, we're gonna We're gonna have to end it there.
Thank you, ri Well, thank you Asley, thank you Adam,
thank you so much for going today. Thanks, thank you,
thank you so much to Harriet what for hosting us today.
Has been absolutely wonderful, and Heather, thank you so much
to you for facilitating all of this. Now we can clap.
(48:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Thanks for listening to this.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Week's Marrying Talks Money. If you like our show, rate review,
and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and keep sending
questions or comments to Merroring Money at Bloomberg dot net.
You can also follow me and John on Twitter or
x I'm at Marinus w and John is John Underscore Epic.
This is a It was hosted by Me Maren Zamsette Web.
The show was produced by Someasadi and Moses and sound
(49:05):
designed by Blake Maples. Special thanks to the team with
Harriet What and of course to all our guests Adam Dixon,
Ashley Hunter and Ikpal Khan.
Host
Merryn Somerset Webb
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