January 2, 2020 • 40 mins
On October 3rd, five people are shot in one day. And a witness sees a vehicle.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Monster DC Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating
in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia,
Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
A deadly rampage victims slain randomly, all within a one
mile radius, all within fifteen hours. The first shooting at
six oh four last night, a fifty five year old
Caucasian mail killed in the parking lot of a grocery store.
Then early this morning, at seven forty one, a Hispanic
man mowing his lawn shot dead. Half an hour later,
(00:42):
a forty year old cab driver gunned down while pumping gas.
Then another thirty minutes later, a Hispanic woman shot fatally
in the head.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
It was a wrong eight in the morning.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Aparked my car and I was laid for work, so
I was running.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
My name is Susye Cooper.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
I was very lucky because at eight o'clock in the morning,
I was the only car in that area, so they
could easily have gotten me. I got inside the beauty
shop and I went to have a cup of coffee,
and all of a sudden I heard shot. I was
(01:26):
really shaky. I opened the back.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Door, thinking it was coming from there. No.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
But then night I went back up front of the
shop and I saw this woman sitting on a bench.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
She was dead. It was so hard to believe what
I was saying. You would think you're at a movie scene.
You know, it was a mess.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
The bench was in front of a restaurant, so the
bullet went through the window of the restaurant.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
That poor woman didn't see it coming.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
There is a ruthless person on the loose. What U
nerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders.
Ordinary people doing ordinary things.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
All that the victims appeared to have had in common,
each was shot to death by a single bullet.
Speaker 7 (02:18):
Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are going
to go right straight through our bullet proof vests.
Speaker 8 (02:23):
The massive man on continues, but police admit they don't
know who are, what they're dealing with, or what their
motive might be.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
The White Bag.
Speaker 9 (02:33):
From iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster DC sniper
Thirty four year old Sierah Ramos was sitting on a
bench in front of a Peruvian restaurant when the sniper
shot and killed her. This was now the second day
of attacks. Earlier that morning, Sunny Buchanan and prim Kumar
(02:57):
Wallacher had both been shot and killed, making the third
victim of the day. All of these shootings were horrifying
and tragic, but for some reason, this shooting in particular
always stuck with me, And when I visited the side
of the murder, it unsettled me.
Speaker 10 (03:18):
Oh boy, this feels a little this feels a little
loft putty.
Speaker 9 (03:29):
We're sitting in the parking lot and this is where
Sarah Ramos was killed. Sarah was thirty four years old.
She had just gotten off a bus and she was
sitting on a bench, you know, next to a post office,
and she was reading a book and she was shot.
She was just I mean, the randomness of it. And
(03:50):
that's what really gets you about all of these killings.
You know, you're essentially a sitting duck. You have no
way to defend yourself.
Speaker 10 (03:58):
No one did.
Speaker 9 (04:01):
A woman sitting on a bench reading a book. How
friggin cowardly is that. It's just the idea that she's
just plucked off man And just like that's no regard
for human life at all. That's just that's literally target
practice and they just drive away. That just sort of
(04:22):
brings home for me the depravity of all of it.
Speaker 11 (04:27):
The victim was laying on a bench with a sheet
over her. That was horrible, really. That's the first one
that I went to. My name is John Desulis. I
was a crime analyst for Montgovernent Keny Police. They called
me to interview a witness who only spoke Spanish, Juan
Carlos I think his name is.
Speaker 9 (04:48):
When police first arrived at the crime scene, they found
one Carlos Vieta nearby.
Speaker 11 (04:53):
They don't know if he's a suspect, if he's a witness.
He's probably around twenty two, I think, typical landscape looking
guy where you know the landscape or uniform. So I
took him aside and started asking him questions. He was
pretty clear that he didn't see where the shots came from.
There's a there's an access route that runs parallel to
(05:16):
the parking lot. He was walking down that road and
had actually passed the front of the store where she
was sitting on the bench, and more or less as
soon as he got past the like the corner where
he could see her. He heard the shot. Within a
few seconds, he saw a white box truck leave passed
right by her and then drove west up to Georgia Avenue.
(05:40):
It would have had to have been a drive by shooting.
Almost It was like five seconds or something after he
heard the shots, the van left the scene. He was
the only one that was really close, and he was
the only one that saw any kind of vehicle, And
he described the box truck very well, you know, to
the point where it had like damaged the rear bumper.
Speaker 9 (06:01):
Vita described a white box truck, a delivery truck with
a cab and separate cargo. Area police immediately started pulling
over white box trucks and similar vehicles, but finding that
one truck in the middle of DC's rush hour traffic
was almost impossible.
Speaker 11 (06:17):
Well, you know how many white box trucks there are
out there.
Speaker 7 (06:20):
You're going to see at least two or three white
vans or box trucks sitting in just about every parking
lot in the country. My name is David C. Reichenbaugh,
retired Lieutenant Maryland State Police.
Speaker 9 (06:32):
Reichenball played a major role in the DC sniper investigation
and He later wrote a book that detailed what was
going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 7 (06:41):
About nine thirty or so, I guess it was. I
get a phone call from the Rockville Barrick Dave. I
don't know what's going on here in Montgomery County, but
there's been a rash of shootings. Montgomery police are running
around like crazy. Looks like this might have started the
night before. But we've got three bodies down and a
(07:01):
shooter out there, and Montgomery County is asking for help.
This could be the next terrorist attack. Can you get
the state police rolling? If there's one thing that the
Maryland State Police can do, and it's actually by design,
we can get two hundred to three hundred troopers at
any place in the state within a couple of hours.
(07:24):
Our goal was to just simply flood the entire area
with road troopers to supplement Montgomery County. The troopers were
coming in from all over the state, and I had
brief them on what we knew, which at that time was.
Speaker 12 (07:38):
Very very little.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
We were looking for a couple of guys in a
white box truck shooting people. That's about what we knew.
We didn't know if we had a single shooter. We
didn't know if we had maybe multiple teams. Our troopers
were stopping every white van, every white box truck, and
their instructions were be careful because these guys are using
(08:01):
weapons that are going to go right straight through our
bulletproof vests. And a sniper case is about the worst
con off case you can have. Most homicides, the shooter
has some connection with the victim, boyfriend, girlfriend, ticked off, neighbor, relative,
There's some sort of a connection that can be made.
(08:22):
This case, we have nothing. A white van, white box truck,
and a high speed bullet that's all we had. And
spreading panic. We had plenty of that.
Speaker 13 (08:36):
There have been a number of white vans all across
this county that have been stopped by police. Officer's a
number of people calling in, in fact, so many people that,
as Andrew mentioned, they're inundating the system. Don't call nine
one one unless you feel that you have solid information
about a white box truck.
Speaker 9 (08:53):
Police continued hunting for the white box truck, but the
terror of October third was it over, and twenty minutes
after the Ramo shooting, and just eight miles south on
Connecticut Avenue, the sniper struck again The fourth shooting on
(09:20):
October third, took place at nine fifty eight am. Maria
Welsh stopped by Safeway after dropping off her kids at school.
Speaker 14 (09:28):
So I had come out of the grocery store. Literally,
I remember just so vividly that the parking lot was
completely empty.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
This is very quiet.
Speaker 14 (09:36):
It was probably about ten o'clock in the morning, and
I just was loading the back of my car up
and got in the car.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
And as I started the car and went to back out.
Speaker 14 (09:46):
Of my parking spot, I heard this loud like fop,
this loud like kind of sound. Then at that moment,
there was a gentleman walking behind my car. I remember
like slamming on the brakes and saying, oh my goodness,
did I just hit something? And he says to me, no,
it came from in front of your car. So, as
I was pulling up towards the main road, which is
(10:07):
Connecticut Avenue, I hear someone calling for help and I
kind of look over and I see this woman next
to the vacuum cleaner laying on the ground.
Speaker 9 (10:17):
That woman, Lorii and Louis Rivera, had been cleaning her
mini van using the gas station's vacuum. Now she was
lying on the pavement tangled in the vacuum cleaner's hose.
Maria Welsh, a nurse, jumped out of her car and
raced over to help.
Speaker 14 (10:32):
And as I was running towards her, then I realized
that I probably should have my cell phone in case
I needed an ambulance. I turned to grab my cell phone,
and when I turned background towards her, it looked like
she was having a seizure. I at the time knew
nothing about any snighbors shooting, and I thought that something
had happened with the vacuum, like an electrical current of
some sort. So as I was approaching her, I couldn't
(10:55):
really do anything because the vacuum cleaner was still running.
We always kind of learned that with you know, electrical equipment,
you don't want to touch the victim.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
So I called nine one one.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah to the corner of Rolls Can.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
A woman was waking in her car.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Something go ast you, I'm glacous.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
She's got me out of her nose in her mouth.
Speaker 15 (11:14):
What's coming out of her news in her mouth?
Speaker 16 (11:18):
Station? Yeah.
Speaker 14 (11:19):
The person that answered the phone said, Okay, well, do
you know what happened? I said, no, I don't know
what happened. I just heard this loud noise, like a
loud bang. And she said, what kind of noise do
you think it is? And I said, I don't know,
like a bomb of some.
Speaker 15 (11:32):
Sort, like a bomb. Yeah, but it wasn't a bomb.
Speaker 17 (11:34):
I was like that kind of noise like a gunshot.
Speaker 9 (11:37):
Baby kind of.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
I said, I've never heard a gunshot.
Speaker 14 (11:41):
And she said, okay, just sit tight, we'll send an
ambulance to you.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
And then the vacuum stopped.
Speaker 14 (11:47):
I do remember standing there being like, oh my gosh,
Oh my gosh, what am I going to do for her?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
What can I do for her?
Speaker 14 (11:51):
And at this point a small crowd had sort of
gathered around me, feeling like we have to do something,
you know, what's the matter with her?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Do something?
Speaker 14 (11:57):
And of course I make this big announcement like okay,
I'm a nurse, I'm gonna do CPR. When I went
to go pull the vacuum cleaner hose out from around her,
she started bleeding from her mouth, which then prevented me
from doing any kind of mouth to mouth, so I
just started doing chest compressions. No ambulance arrives, there is
(12:18):
a fire station that's less than a quarter of a
mile from the gas station that I can see, and
I'm thinking, why are they not sending me anything.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
I'm like, I need help.
Speaker 14 (12:28):
There's like a crowd now and we're all screaming, where's
the ambulance, where's the ambulance. I later did find out
that they had told first responders not to respond yet
until the area was secure. And as a nurse, I
can understand that. And you're trying to minimize the amount
of casualties you have. You don't send everybody in, but
when you're in it, I felt like I was being
(12:51):
hung out to dry there for a second.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Within a few minutes, this man shows up in this little.
Speaker 14 (12:55):
Pickup truck with like a tackle box of equipment and
he says, I'm an EMT and I can help you.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
And I said great. I don't know what's happened.
Speaker 14 (13:03):
So at that point I start to notice that there's
like swat team on top of the buildings across the
street from us.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
There's agents everywhere.
Speaker 14 (13:12):
They have wrapped the entire area with like yellow tape,
and they're now gathering people and telling them to go
inside the gas station. And this agent comes up to
me and tells me, I need to get inside the
gas station quickly.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
I was like, I don't understand. I'm doing CPR. I'm
a nurse.
Speaker 14 (13:26):
And he says the EMTs here, he can do it.
You go inside, and I'm like, we really should be
doing two persons CPR, and he's like, I'll do it
and tells me to get inside the gas station. I said,
I don't know why everyone's making such a big deal.
This woman was vacuum your car, Like what is going on?
So now we're all standing in the gas station and
I called my husband at the time and I said, gosh,
I'm so sorry. I decided to stop it the safeway
(13:49):
before coming home, and something happened with some woman vacuumir
car and I ended up doing CPR. So now the
police are telling me I have to stay inside the
gas station. And then within like five minutes, he calls
me back and he's like, okay, you need to get
out of there. That woman was shot and I was like, no,
she wasn't. I think I would know if she'd been shot.
I did CPR on this phone. There's no blood, there's
no gunshot. I don't know what you're talking about. Mind
(14:11):
you the bullet went through her back and then she
fell backwards and landed on her back. There was no
exit wound, so when we're doing CPR and chest compressions.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
There was nothing. You couldn't see anything.
Speaker 14 (14:24):
At this point, I think it was an FBI agent
comes in to take our statements, and I remember asking,
I said, you know, can you just tell me what
happened with the woman?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Was she shot? And he said she was.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
I got a phone call and that was one of
the detectives. He asked me, are you Nelson Rivera. I
said yes, and he said, Glorie is your wife? Said yes,
she just got shot. And you know, from that point
(15:00):
now my life changed completely. My name is Nelson Rivera
and I was married to Laurie and Louis Rivera. I
am from the country of Honduras, Central America. When I
came to the United States, I started going to the
churchurch Jesus Cribe litter Recent and that's when I met Laurie.
(15:24):
She was a member of the church. She was a sweet,
very sweet girl, and I fell in love with her.
And the funny part was I didn't speak no English
at all, so it was hard for me to ask
her out for a date. But I figured out. I
(15:49):
asked my older brother, can you call her? And told
her I wanted to take her out for dinner. So
he called her and she said, yeah, I take her
to a Hispanic restaurant. And I don't know what to
say because I didn't know how to say it. It
was just weird and it's funny at the same time.
(16:12):
You know, I was just looking at her and she
was just looking at me. So after dinner, it was
about eight o'clock at night. In front of us was
the Temple Jesus, very very saying, and I knew that
word Mary, And I asked her, do you want to
(16:32):
marry me? And she told me, are you crazy? And
I guess I was crazy by that time. I was
lucky she took me back. We kept dating for a
while and then we got married in November twenties. First
(16:53):
in nineteen ninety seven, and Joselina she was born in
January nineteen eighty nine, Laurie. She was a good mom.
Joseline always wanted to go to the pool, and she
always wanted Mommy to take her. She was so little,
but she still remembered that mommy was taking her to
(17:15):
the pool, and that's the only memory Jocelyne remember from
her mom that morning before before I left to work.
It was something completely different than any other day. She
was sleeping and I just standing over her by the
(17:38):
side of the bed for about five minutes and then
I left. So when I was driving around eight o'clock
in the morning, I was listening to the news in
the radio and I heard about people being shot in Maryland.
And I think it was about close to nine o'clock.
(17:58):
I got a phone call and that was one of
the detectives and he asked me, are you Nelson Rivera
And I said yes, and he said are you driving?
Said yes, it's somebody with you and I said yes,
(18:21):
and he told me, can you pull over? I got
something to tell you, but I want you to pull over.
So I pulled over and he said, Laurie's your wife.
Said yes, she just got shot. I just got off
(18:46):
of that truck and I run across the street because
I don't know what to do. And you know, I
was lucky a car don't hit me or something. It's
even hard, you know, after her so many years, she
was so young, she was just twenty four years old.
(19:08):
You know, we drove back to Kensington, Maryland, to that
she had gas station where she got shot. You know,
her blood was there, and you know, there was a
lot of people and I was just wondering, you know,
if my daughter was in the car. And fifteen minutes
before that happened, she dropped Jocelyna off on the dacre.
(19:30):
So I kicked her up and she was three years
in eight month. But I said, you know, Joselyne, I
got to talk to you. That was the most hard
part for me to do. What am I going to say?
You know, there's just millions of things to come to
my head. I said, Jocelyne, Mommy is she's not gonna
(19:53):
be with us anymore. She's with heaven with father. Now.
She's gonna watch us from there. She's going to watch
you the whole time. That was not an easy thing
to say. It really really impact Joseline's life. Any holidays,
(20:15):
any mother's day is just it's been hard. When she
was young, you know, she was saying that Daddy, I
just I just want to die, you know, to go
with my mom because she's in heaven, so I want
to be in heaven with her. You know, that was
that was devastating for me every time when she was
(20:39):
saying something like that, I said, you know, it's not
our time yet. I said, everybody is going to have
their own time, and she'll be waiting for us. That's
the kind of thing I was dealing with. And you know,
still and now she's she's twenty, but there are some
(21:02):
moments you've seen. Still miss her mom. You know, it's
not the same.
Speaker 9 (21:16):
While victims' families grieved the senseless loss of their loved ones,
the police and the media were stepping into high gear.
Here's former police Lieutenant David Reichenbaugh again.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
As word was getting out through the media and everywhere,
the panic was starting to set in.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Many of the merchants, out of fear, have locked their
doors and they're letting customers in and out as necessary.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
There's a great deal of fear going on.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
If you remember, this is back in the early days
of cable news, so this was new for law enforcement
to have to deal with a media that was twenty
four to seven. Causes some problems down the road because
it was a learning curve, not only I think for
the media, but also for us.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
There's a lot of concern since these shootings are so
random and it's so public that parents have wanted to
go to the schools and pull their kids out.
Speaker 13 (22:03):
A little while ago, we heard from the local police
Captain Charles Moose.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 18 (22:09):
We have no information that this is anything to do
with the schools. None of the victims have been of
anything close to school age. None of the locations are
close to the schools. I think the school kids are safe.
They will be released under normal schedule. We won't create
a situation of panic of traffic that at this point
the police department is not capable of hounding. Now, certainly
(22:31):
I can't arrest a parent that insists on going to
the school to get their kid, but please don't do it.
It doesn't help the situation at this point. So please
the media if you can help me get that message out.
Speaker 9 (22:45):
Derek Balliles was a public information officer for Montgomery County, Maryland.
It was his jump to manage relations between the media
and the police.
Speaker 16 (22:53):
Dealing with the media on a case that's attracted the
attention of the country was a little bit overwhelming. Showed
up in our parking lot and just set up tents
in In fact, we called it Camp Moose. Those of
us who are public information officers refer to how big
an event is based upon how many chemical toilets are delivered,
and I believe this was a five seater, so it
(23:18):
was big. I'd go out and talk to the media
to find out what they wanted to know, and then
come back to Chief Moose and the others who were
making the decisions about what was going to be said.
We tried to tell the public everything we could about
how to keep safe. Of course, there's things that we
can't tell you because we're in the process of investigating
it at this time that if we were to release
(23:38):
the information early it might ruin everything. We didn't have
a whole lot of information to tell the public, so
we've tried to provide the best information we could to people,
and one of those things was about the white panel van.
Speaker 8 (23:51):
Police have had little to go on, only one witnesses
description of a white truck speeding away from one murder's a.
School Children were kept indoors through the they and police
were on hand when schools let out. Police admit they
don't know who are, what they're dealing with, or what
their motive might be.
Speaker 12 (24:08):
The first big day is like, why Montgomery County, who
has a grudge? What are they trying to prove?
Speaker 9 (24:15):
That's Patrick McNerney, the homicide detective who'd been assigned to
the first murder outside the Shopper's food warehouse. Now after
four more shootings in Montgomery County, the case and potential
motives looked very different.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
Who are people who work for the police department might
be a little unhinged, either current or retired. Let's find
out where these people are and actually put your hand
on them and know where they were during this timeframe.
And that was our first thing we did, kind of
like you know, Wizard of Oz, start at the very
beginning of the yellow brick road and you know, work
your way out.
Speaker 9 (24:51):
But that theory would be quickly thrown out. That night,
at nine to twenty pm, investigators got their first indication
that the snipers weren't just focused on Montgomery County. The
snipers had now moved into the nation's capital. It was
(25:16):
now nine to twenty pm the night of October third.
After laying low for almost twelve hours, the snipers had
just shot their fifth victim of the day, and they
crossed over the border into Washington, d C.
Speaker 18 (25:32):
Yeah, we got get a shot out here on the
I'm on the corner at Georgia and drinking Collomnia.
Speaker 9 (25:37):
Street Intection, California.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Okay, k A l M I A word north just
by the topogra on a KFT.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
He was bleeding like a lor fucker.
Speaker 7 (25:53):
He's greaten that.
Speaker 9 (25:57):
The victim, Pascal Charlot, was a seventy two year old
Haitian immigrant and a retired carpenter. He was standing on
a street corner when he was shot.
Speaker 15 (26:06):
I need to try and drink it over.
Speaker 9 (26:12):
Come on right, Okay there, what's get here?
Speaker 7 (26:16):
It just got shot.
Speaker 16 (26:17):
He's freaking.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
He's like.
Speaker 16 (26:22):
He's still breeding.
Speaker 9 (26:23):
But Pascal Charlotte died less than an hour later. There
were a few witnesses nearby when the shot rang out.
One reported seeing a sedan driving with its headlights off.
Another saw a bright flash of light, but that was
about it. No one had spotted the white box truck
(26:46):
let alone its license played. The next morning, Friday, October fourth,
Maryland's chief medical examiner autopsied the victims and extracted bullet
fragments from their bodies. He sent them to Wall Dandridge, Junior,
a forensic firearm examiner at the ATF lab in Maryland.
Speaker 17 (27:06):
It's not unusual for state and local to ask ATF
to assist them with firearms related crimes.
Speaker 10 (27:14):
ATF, in fact, is the firearms police. Essentially. My name
is Walter Dandridge, Junior.
Speaker 17 (27:21):
I work for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Speaker 10 (27:26):
Firearms have rifling.
Speaker 17 (27:27):
Cut into the barrel and they're in a helical twist
within the barrel, and so when the bullet is fired,
that rifling imparts a spin on the bullet. You see
a quarterback throw a football in slow motion and has
this tight spiral and is flying straight and true. You
want this tight spiral spin in order to maintain the
(27:49):
stability of the projectile.
Speaker 9 (27:52):
A gun's rifling does more than add a spin to
the bullet. It carves grooves into the sides of the
bullet as well, creating marks that a forensic firearm examiner
like Dandridge can analyze. Dandridge compared the bullets from different
shootings against one another to see if they had been
fired from the same gun.
Speaker 17 (28:11):
So I stick one projectile on the left stage of
the comparison microscope, and I'll stick the second projectile on
the right stage of the microscope, and I'm looking through
the eyepiece, and I can manipulate the bullets on each
of those stages, rotating them and looking at the microscopic marks,
I could raise the magnification to twenty twenty five thirty
(28:36):
x and see those marks clearly. If all of that
is corresponding, then we will call that an identification, which
would indicate that they were fired from the same firearm.
Speaker 9 (28:49):
Dandridge confirmed what everyone feared. All of the recovered bullets
had been fired from the same high powered rifle. There
was a sniper on the loose killed one person on Wednesday,
October second, and then five more on Thursday, October third,
And now it was Friday, October fourth, and everyone was
(29:11):
on edge about what would happen next. Here's retired homicide
Detective McNerney again.
Speaker 12 (29:17):
It was Friday. I had just gotten in into the
office and my supervisor, Nick de Carlo, came to me.
He says, listen, you need to get your papers together.
You're going to Fredericksburg, Virginia for a shooting outside of
a Michael's down there.
Speaker 10 (29:33):
Is emercy.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Yes, I am in front of Michaels and somebody's out here,
who need some help?
Speaker 8 (29:38):
Okay, let's go on.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
There was a loud crack and she said she needs
help and she's lying down home.
Speaker 15 (29:47):
So she got injured or uh yeah, I.
Speaker 12 (29:50):
Definitely injured shared herself.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
I'm not sure it was allowed.
Speaker 12 (29:57):
You know, it looks like she's been shot or shot.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Yeah, she saw that.
Speaker 9 (30:01):
Okay, I could come back and get my son out
of her car.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Yeah, I know, let's get Okay, we're getting somebody on
the way. I pulled up and there was a loud
you know, gunshot.
Speaker 13 (30:18):
Did you see anything or anyone?
Speaker 7 (30:20):
You just heard a loud pop.
Speaker 13 (30:22):
I heard the call for help, and.
Speaker 14 (30:23):
I saw the car.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
You saw, Well, I didn't.
Speaker 14 (30:26):
I didn't see the car. You didn't see the car
I saw.
Speaker 6 (30:29):
I noticed that a car was screwing away, but I
did not see it.
Speaker 12 (30:32):
Okay, anyone else, No, the same thing.
Speaker 17 (30:35):
We were aware that the car sped away, but we
did not actually cast us what it was.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
Okay, someone says there was a man in it.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
What about the lady at the sender?
Speaker 14 (30:44):
Did she see it?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Lot?
Speaker 14 (30:45):
Are people around here right now?
Speaker 8 (30:47):
Did you actually see the car?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, she didn't see it.
Speaker 16 (30:51):
Okay, are you in the parking lot.
Speaker 11 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (31:02):
Forty three year old Caroline Seawell was the seventh victim
in just three days. She just finished a simple errand
at Michael's and she was loading bags into her mini
van when a bullet pierced her back. It tore through
her liver and punctured her lung. But when detective McNerney
heard that this shooting, like the first, took place at
(31:22):
a Michael's craft store, he perked up.
Speaker 12 (31:25):
Now we at least have some connection, you know, what
are the connection between these two places? And so this
thing happens in Spotsylvania County in Virginia. My surprise, Nick said, listen,
you got two helicopters waiting for you over at the
police Academy and they'll take you down there. That was
my big adventure to fly in the helicopter with the FBI.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
As Detective McNerney flew south to Fredericksburg, Virginia, Caroline Seawell
was metavacked north to a hospital in Fairfax.
Speaker 12 (31:52):
As a matter of fact, our helicopters crossed one another's
path on the way down there.
Speaker 9 (31:57):
Seawell was rushed into emergency surgery and miraculously she survived. Meanwhile,
mcnerney's helicopter arrived in Fredericksburg.
Speaker 12 (32:07):
We landed right in the parking lot where the Michaels
was down there. And when I went in talking to
the manager of the place, you know, what is your
connection with Montgomery County? Oddly enough, the same guy who
set up the store Montgomery County set up the store
in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Okay, well, now we have a connection.
Then you know, why would somebody want to shoot you
(32:29):
or somebody at the store and we're coming up with
blanks on that.
Speaker 9 (32:34):
McNerney was convinced that the crimes were connected, but he'd
need a bullet to prove it.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
The round was recovered, or what was left of it.
As Sewell was putting stuff in the back of her van,
her arm was up pulling down the tailgate when she
was shot. The round went through her and stayed inside
the rear of the van. I met with the sheriff, explaining,
this is what we have Montgomery County. What you're telling
(33:01):
me here fits the things that we're looking for. And
then there was discussion about what are you going to
do with the round? And they're like, well, we'll submit
it to Virginia State Police and you know, we'll get
something back in a couple of months. Like, let me
make this offer to you. Sign the evidence over to me,
and I'll take it directly down to the ATF lab
(33:21):
and they'll examine it, hopefully within twenty four hours. They
ultimately said that's the better route, and fortunately for me,
the FBI stayed there with their helicopter. It was interesting though,
this was a sniper helicopter, Old Hughy. So on the
way down there, I could sit on the outboard seat
looking out the window, the doors wide open. But on
the way back the guys had their night vision goggles
(33:44):
on and they were sitting on the outboard seat like wow,
I didn't know it would be a target. But I
got back there, I took the round to ATF.
Speaker 17 (33:53):
He had his lights and sirens on and the brakes
were smoking when he reached the lab.
Speaker 9 (33:58):
That's forensic Firearm Examine Walter Dandridge Again.
Speaker 17 (34:02):
There was a lot of urgency during this time, but
the urgency wasn't at the sacrifice of quality. We didn't
do anything different with the sniper investigation other than once
we received the evidence, we worked it right through. If
that meant working all night. We did that as opposed
to quitting after eight hours.
Speaker 12 (34:22):
The next morning decision was, yes, it's included in our case.
Let's get the sheriff up here and do the press announcement.
Speaker 9 (34:33):
The weekend brought a break from the shootings, and some
wondered if the spree had ended as quickly as it began,
but police were working over time. They interviewed employees from Michaels,
questioned white box truck owners, and checked up on people
who'd recently bought or sold rifles in the area, but
they didn't come up with many promising leads. On Saturday,
(34:55):
October fifth, police said they had the tained demand Robert Baker,
who had been reported missing around the time of the shootings.
He'd left his home in Montgomery County, Maryland, and taken
with him a rifle that fired the same kind of
bullets used in the attacks, and reportedly he was affiliated
with militia and white supremacist groups, but after initial hopes
(35:18):
he was connected to the attacks, police ruled him out.
Speaking to the Washington Post, Montgomery County Police Chief Charles
Moose said, quote, I would just like to express the
fact that mister Baker's vehicle is a dark blue GMC
pickup truck. It never has been white, never has been
associated with the white box truck we've been talking about.
(35:45):
The Next day, Sunday, October sixth, marked the first funeral
for one of the victims, prim Kumar Wallaker, the taxi
driver who'd been shot at the gas station. Caroline Namro attended.
She was the doctor who witnessed the shooting and gave
of Wallacher CPR.
Speaker 15 (36:01):
It was very It was very emotional, obviously very devastating
to his family. They asked me what his final words
were and I told them, you know, unfortunately he didn't
have time to say any messages to his family. And
I did relate what had happened, and then they asked
(36:23):
me to speak, which I was quite shocked that they
wanted me to speak.
Speaker 10 (36:27):
It was a very big.
Speaker 15 (36:29):
Funeral, was in a church. During the time that people
were speaking, I had a few minutes to sit down
and collect my thoughts, and I did get up and speak.
I remember saying that it was such a terrible waste
of a life. This is devastating, and I remember thinking
that I should try and say something religious, because it
(36:52):
wasn't a church. So the only thing I could think
of was a blessing to the family, that God would
turn his face to them, shine his light on them,
and give them peace, which is the priestly blessing. And
I said to the police liaison lady, I said, I
don't want my face to be on television. They still
(37:12):
hadn't found the snipers. I didn't want anybody to find
me or come to the house or anything. In the evening,
if I was putting the kids to bed and it
was very quiet in the house, just felt a little nervous.
Speaker 9 (37:27):
Everyone shared that anxiety, even police officers working the case.
Here's retired Maryland State Police Lieutenant David Reichenbaugh.
Speaker 7 (37:35):
Again, I was a parent of a teenage girl at
that point. Hey, your kids are everything. There's concern, there's panic,
and of course there's that. I want to call it
the unrealistic thought process, because I went through it too.
I was concerned about my kid. Is my kid going
to be a target in all this. Now, the police
(37:59):
side of me says, that's just unrealistic and the odds
are astronomical. But dad part of me says, hey, my
kid could be the next target. I guarantee you every parent,
certainly in Montgomery County and now the District of Columbia.
We're beginning to think the same thing. How could you not?
(38:23):
And then Monday October seventh, eight oh eight am, Benjamin
Tasker Middle School are worst fear?
Speaker 9 (38:33):
Next time? On Monster DC Sniper.
Speaker 8 (38:37):
This was a copy of.
Speaker 12 (38:38):
Prince George's County Now on one call.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Well, Hello, this is in middle school.
Speaker 6 (38:43):
Uh you got a child out the station. All right,
I'm the Prince school to school here, I don't know where,
I have no idea.
Speaker 7 (38:56):
That's the deathshead terror card. The message here is that
quite obvious.
Speaker 10 (39:01):
Call me God.
Speaker 7 (39:02):
They decide who lives, they decide who dies.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
There was a very quick realization that this could be
the next stage of a terror campaign.
Speaker 7 (39:14):
And there it is all over network news, which meant
we had an internal leak.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Monster d C Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted
by Tony Harris and produced by iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, alongside producers Trevor Young, ben keebrig and Josh Thain,
Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Are executive producers on behalf
(39:49):
of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stedman and Christina Dana.
Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. If you
haven't already, be to check out the first two seasons,
Atlanta Monster and Monster the Zodiac Killer. If you have
questions or comments, email us at Monster at iHeartMedia dot com,
(40:10):
or you can call us at one eight three three
two eight five six six sixty seven. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Monster DC Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating
in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia,
Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
A deadly rampage victims slain randomly, all within a one
mile radius, all within fifteen hours. The first shooting at
six oh four last night, a fifty five year old
Caucasian mail killed in the parking lot of a grocery store.
Then early this morning, at seven forty one, a Hispanic
man mowing his lawn shot dead. Half an hour later,
(00:42):
a forty year old cab driver gunned down while pumping gas.
Then another thirty minutes later, a Hispanic woman shot fatally
in the head.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
It was a wrong eight in the morning.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Aparked my car and I was laid for work, so
I was running.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
My name is Susye Cooper.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
I was very lucky because at eight o'clock in the morning,
I was the only car in that area, so they
could easily have gotten me. I got inside the beauty
shop and I went to have a cup of coffee,
and all of a sudden I heard shot. I was
(01:26):
really shaky. I opened the back.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Door, thinking it was coming from there. No.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
But then night I went back up front of the
shop and I saw this woman sitting on a bench.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
She was dead. It was so hard to believe what
I was saying. You would think you're at a movie scene.
You know, it was a mess.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
The bench was in front of a restaurant, so the
bullet went through the window of the restaurant.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
That poor woman didn't see it coming.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
There is a ruthless person on the loose. What U
nerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders.
Ordinary people doing ordinary things.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
All that the victims appeared to have had in common,
each was shot to death by a single bullet.
Speaker 7 (02:18):
Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are going
to go right straight through our bullet proof vests.
Speaker 8 (02:23):
The massive man on continues, but police admit they don't
know who are, what they're dealing with, or what their
motive might be.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
The White Bag.
Speaker 9 (02:33):
From iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster DC sniper
Thirty four year old Sierah Ramos was sitting on a
bench in front of a Peruvian restaurant when the sniper
shot and killed her. This was now the second day
of attacks. Earlier that morning, Sunny Buchanan and prim Kumar
(02:57):
Wallacher had both been shot and killed, making the third
victim of the day. All of these shootings were horrifying
and tragic, but for some reason, this shooting in particular
always stuck with me, And when I visited the side
of the murder, it unsettled me.
Speaker 10 (03:18):
Oh boy, this feels a little this feels a little
loft putty.
Speaker 9 (03:29):
We're sitting in the parking lot and this is where
Sarah Ramos was killed. Sarah was thirty four years old.
She had just gotten off a bus and she was
sitting on a bench, you know, next to a post office,
and she was reading a book and she was shot.
She was just I mean, the randomness of it. And
(03:50):
that's what really gets you about all of these killings.
You know, you're essentially a sitting duck. You have no
way to defend yourself.
Speaker 10 (03:58):
No one did.
Speaker 9 (04:01):
A woman sitting on a bench reading a book. How
friggin cowardly is that. It's just the idea that she's
just plucked off man And just like that's no regard
for human life at all. That's just that's literally target
practice and they just drive away. That just sort of
(04:22):
brings home for me the depravity of all of it.
Speaker 11 (04:27):
The victim was laying on a bench with a sheet
over her. That was horrible, really. That's the first one
that I went to. My name is John Desulis. I
was a crime analyst for Montgovernent Keny Police. They called
me to interview a witness who only spoke Spanish, Juan
Carlos I think his name is.
Speaker 9 (04:48):
When police first arrived at the crime scene, they found
one Carlos Vieta nearby.
Speaker 11 (04:53):
They don't know if he's a suspect, if he's a witness.
He's probably around twenty two, I think, typical landscape looking
guy where you know the landscape or uniform. So I
took him aside and started asking him questions. He was
pretty clear that he didn't see where the shots came from.
There's a there's an access route that runs parallel to
(05:16):
the parking lot. He was walking down that road and
had actually passed the front of the store where she
was sitting on the bench, and more or less as
soon as he got past the like the corner where
he could see her. He heard the shot. Within a
few seconds, he saw a white box truck leave passed
right by her and then drove west up to Georgia Avenue.
(05:40):
It would have had to have been a drive by shooting.
Almost It was like five seconds or something after he
heard the shots, the van left the scene. He was
the only one that was really close, and he was
the only one that saw any kind of vehicle, And
he described the box truck very well, you know, to
the point where it had like damaged the rear bumper.
Speaker 9 (06:01):
Vita described a white box truck, a delivery truck with
a cab and separate cargo. Area police immediately started pulling
over white box trucks and similar vehicles, but finding that
one truck in the middle of DC's rush hour traffic
was almost impossible.
Speaker 11 (06:17):
Well, you know how many white box trucks there are
out there.
Speaker 7 (06:20):
You're going to see at least two or three white
vans or box trucks sitting in just about every parking
lot in the country. My name is David C. Reichenbaugh,
retired Lieutenant Maryland State Police.
Speaker 9 (06:32):
Reichenball played a major role in the DC sniper investigation
and He later wrote a book that detailed what was
going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 7 (06:41):
About nine thirty or so, I guess it was. I
get a phone call from the Rockville Barrick Dave. I
don't know what's going on here in Montgomery County, but
there's been a rash of shootings. Montgomery police are running
around like crazy. Looks like this might have started the
night before. But we've got three bodies down and a
(07:01):
shooter out there, and Montgomery County is asking for help.
This could be the next terrorist attack. Can you get
the state police rolling? If there's one thing that the
Maryland State Police can do, and it's actually by design,
we can get two hundred to three hundred troopers at
any place in the state within a couple of hours.
(07:24):
Our goal was to just simply flood the entire area
with road troopers to supplement Montgomery County. The troopers were
coming in from all over the state, and I had
brief them on what we knew, which at that time was.
Speaker 12 (07:38):
Very very little.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
We were looking for a couple of guys in a
white box truck shooting people. That's about what we knew.
We didn't know if we had a single shooter. We
didn't know if we had maybe multiple teams. Our troopers
were stopping every white van, every white box truck, and
their instructions were be careful because these guys are using
(08:01):
weapons that are going to go right straight through our
bulletproof vests. And a sniper case is about the worst
con off case you can have. Most homicides, the shooter
has some connection with the victim, boyfriend, girlfriend, ticked off, neighbor, relative,
There's some sort of a connection that can be made.
(08:22):
This case, we have nothing. A white van, white box truck,
and a high speed bullet that's all we had. And
spreading panic. We had plenty of that.
Speaker 13 (08:36):
There have been a number of white vans all across
this county that have been stopped by police. Officer's a
number of people calling in, in fact, so many people that,
as Andrew mentioned, they're inundating the system. Don't call nine
one one unless you feel that you have solid information
about a white box truck.
Speaker 9 (08:53):
Police continued hunting for the white box truck, but the
terror of October third was it over, and twenty minutes
after the Ramo shooting, and just eight miles south on
Connecticut Avenue, the sniper struck again The fourth shooting on
(09:20):
October third, took place at nine fifty eight am. Maria
Welsh stopped by Safeway after dropping off her kids at school.
Speaker 14 (09:28):
So I had come out of the grocery store. Literally,
I remember just so vividly that the parking lot was
completely empty.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
This is very quiet.
Speaker 14 (09:36):
It was probably about ten o'clock in the morning, and
I just was loading the back of my car up
and got in the car.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
And as I started the car and went to back out.
Speaker 14 (09:46):
Of my parking spot, I heard this loud like fop,
this loud like kind of sound. Then at that moment,
there was a gentleman walking behind my car. I remember
like slamming on the brakes and saying, oh my goodness,
did I just hit something? And he says to me, no,
it came from in front of your car. So, as
I was pulling up towards the main road, which is
(10:07):
Connecticut Avenue, I hear someone calling for help and I
kind of look over and I see this woman next
to the vacuum cleaner laying on the ground.
Speaker 9 (10:17):
That woman, Lorii and Louis Rivera, had been cleaning her
mini van using the gas station's vacuum. Now she was
lying on the pavement tangled in the vacuum cleaner's hose.
Maria Welsh, a nurse, jumped out of her car and
raced over to help.
Speaker 14 (10:32):
And as I was running towards her, then I realized
that I probably should have my cell phone in case
I needed an ambulance. I turned to grab my cell phone,
and when I turned background towards her, it looked like
she was having a seizure. I at the time knew
nothing about any snighbors shooting, and I thought that something
had happened with the vacuum, like an electrical current of
some sort. So as I was approaching her, I couldn't
(10:55):
really do anything because the vacuum cleaner was still running.
We always kind of learned that with you know, electrical equipment,
you don't want to touch the victim.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
So I called nine one one.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah to the corner of Rolls Can.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
A woman was waking in her car.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Something go ast you, I'm glacous.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
She's got me out of her nose in her mouth.
Speaker 15 (11:14):
What's coming out of her news in her mouth?
Speaker 16 (11:18):
Station? Yeah.
Speaker 14 (11:19):
The person that answered the phone said, Okay, well, do
you know what happened? I said, no, I don't know
what happened. I just heard this loud noise, like a
loud bang. And she said, what kind of noise do
you think it is? And I said, I don't know,
like a bomb of some.
Speaker 15 (11:32):
Sort, like a bomb. Yeah, but it wasn't a bomb.
Speaker 17 (11:34):
I was like that kind of noise like a gunshot.
Speaker 9 (11:37):
Baby kind of.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
I said, I've never heard a gunshot.
Speaker 14 (11:41):
And she said, okay, just sit tight, we'll send an
ambulance to you.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
And then the vacuum stopped.
Speaker 14 (11:47):
I do remember standing there being like, oh my gosh,
Oh my gosh, what am I going to do for her?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
What can I do for her?
Speaker 14 (11:51):
And at this point a small crowd had sort of
gathered around me, feeling like we have to do something,
you know, what's the matter with her?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Do something?
Speaker 14 (11:57):
And of course I make this big announcement like okay,
I'm a nurse, I'm gonna do CPR. When I went
to go pull the vacuum cleaner hose out from around her,
she started bleeding from her mouth, which then prevented me
from doing any kind of mouth to mouth, so I
just started doing chest compressions. No ambulance arrives, there is
(12:18):
a fire station that's less than a quarter of a
mile from the gas station that I can see, and
I'm thinking, why are they not sending me anything.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
I'm like, I need help.
Speaker 14 (12:28):
There's like a crowd now and we're all screaming, where's
the ambulance, where's the ambulance. I later did find out
that they had told first responders not to respond yet
until the area was secure. And as a nurse, I
can understand that. And you're trying to minimize the amount
of casualties you have. You don't send everybody in, but
when you're in it, I felt like I was being
(12:51):
hung out to dry there for a second.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Within a few minutes, this man shows up in this little.
Speaker 14 (12:55):
Pickup truck with like a tackle box of equipment and
he says, I'm an EMT and I can help you.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
And I said great. I don't know what's happened.
Speaker 14 (13:03):
So at that point I start to notice that there's
like swat team on top of the buildings across the
street from us.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
There's agents everywhere.
Speaker 14 (13:12):
They have wrapped the entire area with like yellow tape,
and they're now gathering people and telling them to go
inside the gas station. And this agent comes up to
me and tells me, I need to get inside the
gas station quickly.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
I was like, I don't understand. I'm doing CPR. I'm
a nurse.
Speaker 14 (13:26):
And he says the EMTs here, he can do it.
You go inside, and I'm like, we really should be
doing two persons CPR, and he's like, I'll do it
and tells me to get inside the gas station. I said,
I don't know why everyone's making such a big deal.
This woman was vacuum your car, Like what is going on?
So now we're all standing in the gas station and
I called my husband at the time and I said, gosh,
I'm so sorry. I decided to stop it the safeway
(13:49):
before coming home, and something happened with some woman vacuumir
car and I ended up doing CPR. So now the
police are telling me I have to stay inside the
gas station. And then within like five minutes, he calls
me back and he's like, okay, you need to get
out of there. That woman was shot and I was like, no,
she wasn't. I think I would know if she'd been shot.
I did CPR on this phone. There's no blood, there's
no gunshot. I don't know what you're talking about. Mind
(14:11):
you the bullet went through her back and then she
fell backwards and landed on her back. There was no
exit wound, so when we're doing CPR and chest compressions.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
There was nothing. You couldn't see anything.
Speaker 14 (14:24):
At this point, I think it was an FBI agent
comes in to take our statements, and I remember asking,
I said, you know, can you just tell me what
happened with the woman?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Was she shot? And he said she was.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
I got a phone call and that was one of
the detectives. He asked me, are you Nelson Rivera. I
said yes, and he said, Glorie is your wife? Said yes,
she just got shot. And you know, from that point
(15:00):
now my life changed completely. My name is Nelson Rivera
and I was married to Laurie and Louis Rivera. I
am from the country of Honduras, Central America. When I
came to the United States, I started going to the
churchurch Jesus Cribe litter Recent and that's when I met Laurie.
(15:24):
She was a member of the church. She was a sweet,
very sweet girl, and I fell in love with her.
And the funny part was I didn't speak no English
at all, so it was hard for me to ask
her out for a date. But I figured out. I
(15:49):
asked my older brother, can you call her? And told
her I wanted to take her out for dinner. So
he called her and she said, yeah, I take her
to a Hispanic restaurant. And I don't know what to
say because I didn't know how to say it. It
was just weird and it's funny at the same time.
(16:12):
You know, I was just looking at her and she
was just looking at me. So after dinner, it was
about eight o'clock at night. In front of us was
the Temple Jesus, very very saying, and I knew that
word Mary, And I asked her, do you want to
(16:32):
marry me? And she told me, are you crazy? And
I guess I was crazy by that time. I was
lucky she took me back. We kept dating for a
while and then we got married in November twenties. First
(16:53):
in nineteen ninety seven, and Joselina she was born in
January nineteen eighty nine, Laurie. She was a good mom.
Joseline always wanted to go to the pool, and she
always wanted Mommy to take her. She was so little,
but she still remembered that mommy was taking her to
(17:15):
the pool, and that's the only memory Jocelyne remember from
her mom that morning before before I left to work.
It was something completely different than any other day. She
was sleeping and I just standing over her by the
(17:38):
side of the bed for about five minutes and then
I left. So when I was driving around eight o'clock
in the morning, I was listening to the news in
the radio and I heard about people being shot in Maryland.
And I think it was about close to nine o'clock.
(17:58):
I got a phone call and that was one of
the detectives and he asked me, are you Nelson Rivera
And I said yes, and he said are you driving?
Said yes, it's somebody with you and I said yes,
(18:21):
and he told me, can you pull over? I got
something to tell you, but I want you to pull over.
So I pulled over and he said, Laurie's your wife.
Said yes, she just got shot. I just got off
(18:46):
of that truck and I run across the street because
I don't know what to do. And you know, I
was lucky a car don't hit me or something. It's
even hard, you know, after her so many years, she
was so young, she was just twenty four years old.
(19:08):
You know, we drove back to Kensington, Maryland, to that
she had gas station where she got shot. You know,
her blood was there, and you know, there was a
lot of people and I was just wondering, you know,
if my daughter was in the car. And fifteen minutes
before that happened, she dropped Jocelyna off on the dacre.
(19:30):
So I kicked her up and she was three years
in eight month. But I said, you know, Joselyne, I
got to talk to you. That was the most hard
part for me to do. What am I going to say?
You know, there's just millions of things to come to
my head. I said, Jocelyne, Mommy is she's not gonna
(19:53):
be with us anymore. She's with heaven with father. Now.
She's gonna watch us from there. She's going to watch
you the whole time. That was not an easy thing
to say. It really really impact Joseline's life. Any holidays,
(20:15):
any mother's day is just it's been hard. When she
was young, you know, she was saying that Daddy, I
just I just want to die, you know, to go
with my mom because she's in heaven, so I want
to be in heaven with her. You know, that was
that was devastating for me every time when she was
(20:39):
saying something like that, I said, you know, it's not
our time yet. I said, everybody is going to have
their own time, and she'll be waiting for us. That's
the kind of thing I was dealing with. And you know,
still and now she's she's twenty, but there are some
(21:02):
moments you've seen. Still miss her mom. You know, it's
not the same.
Speaker 9 (21:16):
While victims' families grieved the senseless loss of their loved ones,
the police and the media were stepping into high gear.
Here's former police Lieutenant David Reichenbaugh again.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
As word was getting out through the media and everywhere,
the panic was starting to set in.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Many of the merchants, out of fear, have locked their
doors and they're letting customers in and out as necessary.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
There's a great deal of fear going on.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
If you remember, this is back in the early days
of cable news, so this was new for law enforcement
to have to deal with a media that was twenty
four to seven. Causes some problems down the road because
it was a learning curve, not only I think for
the media, but also for us.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
There's a lot of concern since these shootings are so
random and it's so public that parents have wanted to
go to the schools and pull their kids out.
Speaker 13 (22:03):
A little while ago, we heard from the local police
Captain Charles Moose.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 18 (22:09):
We have no information that this is anything to do
with the schools. None of the victims have been of
anything close to school age. None of the locations are
close to the schools. I think the school kids are safe.
They will be released under normal schedule. We won't create
a situation of panic of traffic that at this point
the police department is not capable of hounding. Now, certainly
(22:31):
I can't arrest a parent that insists on going to
the school to get their kid, but please don't do it.
It doesn't help the situation at this point. So please
the media if you can help me get that message out.
Speaker 9 (22:45):
Derek Balliles was a public information officer for Montgomery County, Maryland.
It was his jump to manage relations between the media
and the police.
Speaker 16 (22:53):
Dealing with the media on a case that's attracted the
attention of the country was a little bit overwhelming. Showed
up in our parking lot and just set up tents
in In fact, we called it Camp Moose. Those of
us who are public information officers refer to how big
an event is based upon how many chemical toilets are delivered,
and I believe this was a five seater, so it
(23:18):
was big. I'd go out and talk to the media
to find out what they wanted to know, and then
come back to Chief Moose and the others who were
making the decisions about what was going to be said.
We tried to tell the public everything we could about
how to keep safe. Of course, there's things that we
can't tell you because we're in the process of investigating
it at this time that if we were to release
(23:38):
the information early it might ruin everything. We didn't have
a whole lot of information to tell the public, so
we've tried to provide the best information we could to people,
and one of those things was about the white panel van.
Speaker 8 (23:51):
Police have had little to go on, only one witnesses
description of a white truck speeding away from one murder's a.
School Children were kept indoors through the they and police
were on hand when schools let out. Police admit they
don't know who are, what they're dealing with, or what
their motive might be.
Speaker 12 (24:08):
The first big day is like, why Montgomery County, who
has a grudge? What are they trying to prove?
Speaker 9 (24:15):
That's Patrick McNerney, the homicide detective who'd been assigned to
the first murder outside the Shopper's food warehouse. Now after
four more shootings in Montgomery County, the case and potential
motives looked very different.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
Who are people who work for the police department might
be a little unhinged, either current or retired. Let's find
out where these people are and actually put your hand
on them and know where they were during this timeframe.
And that was our first thing we did, kind of
like you know, Wizard of Oz, start at the very
beginning of the yellow brick road and you know, work
your way out.
Speaker 9 (24:51):
But that theory would be quickly thrown out. That night,
at nine to twenty pm, investigators got their first indication
that the snipers weren't just focused on Montgomery County. The
snipers had now moved into the nation's capital. It was
(25:16):
now nine to twenty pm the night of October third.
After laying low for almost twelve hours, the snipers had
just shot their fifth victim of the day, and they
crossed over the border into Washington, d C.
Speaker 18 (25:32):
Yeah, we got get a shot out here on the
I'm on the corner at Georgia and drinking Collomnia.
Speaker 9 (25:37):
Street Intection, California.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Okay, k A l M I A word north just
by the topogra on a KFT.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
He was bleeding like a lor fucker.
Speaker 7 (25:53):
He's greaten that.
Speaker 9 (25:57):
The victim, Pascal Charlot, was a seventy two year old
Haitian immigrant and a retired carpenter. He was standing on
a street corner when he was shot.
Speaker 15 (26:06):
I need to try and drink it over.
Speaker 9 (26:12):
Come on right, Okay there, what's get here?
Speaker 7 (26:16):
It just got shot.
Speaker 16 (26:17):
He's freaking.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
He's like.
Speaker 16 (26:22):
He's still breeding.
Speaker 9 (26:23):
But Pascal Charlotte died less than an hour later. There
were a few witnesses nearby when the shot rang out.
One reported seeing a sedan driving with its headlights off.
Another saw a bright flash of light, but that was
about it. No one had spotted the white box truck
(26:46):
let alone its license played. The next morning, Friday, October fourth,
Maryland's chief medical examiner autopsied the victims and extracted bullet
fragments from their bodies. He sent them to Wall Dandridge, Junior,
a forensic firearm examiner at the ATF lab in Maryland.
Speaker 17 (27:06):
It's not unusual for state and local to ask ATF
to assist them with firearms related crimes.
Speaker 10 (27:14):
ATF, in fact, is the firearms police. Essentially. My name
is Walter Dandridge, Junior.
Speaker 17 (27:21):
I work for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Speaker 10 (27:26):
Firearms have rifling.
Speaker 17 (27:27):
Cut into the barrel and they're in a helical twist
within the barrel, and so when the bullet is fired,
that rifling imparts a spin on the bullet. You see
a quarterback throw a football in slow motion and has
this tight spiral and is flying straight and true. You
want this tight spiral spin in order to maintain the
(27:49):
stability of the projectile.
Speaker 9 (27:52):
A gun's rifling does more than add a spin to
the bullet. It carves grooves into the sides of the
bullet as well, creating marks that a forensic firearm examiner
like Dandridge can analyze. Dandridge compared the bullets from different
shootings against one another to see if they had been
fired from the same gun.
Speaker 17 (28:11):
So I stick one projectile on the left stage of
the comparison microscope, and I'll stick the second projectile on
the right stage of the microscope, and I'm looking through
the eyepiece, and I can manipulate the bullets on each
of those stages, rotating them and looking at the microscopic marks,
I could raise the magnification to twenty twenty five thirty
(28:36):
x and see those marks clearly. If all of that
is corresponding, then we will call that an identification, which
would indicate that they were fired from the same firearm.
Speaker 9 (28:49):
Dandridge confirmed what everyone feared. All of the recovered bullets
had been fired from the same high powered rifle. There
was a sniper on the loose killed one person on Wednesday,
October second, and then five more on Thursday, October third,
And now it was Friday, October fourth, and everyone was
(29:11):
on edge about what would happen next. Here's retired homicide
Detective McNerney again.
Speaker 12 (29:17):
It was Friday. I had just gotten in into the
office and my supervisor, Nick de Carlo, came to me.
He says, listen, you need to get your papers together.
You're going to Fredericksburg, Virginia for a shooting outside of
a Michael's down there.
Speaker 10 (29:33):
Is emercy.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Yes, I am in front of Michaels and somebody's out here,
who need some help?
Speaker 8 (29:38):
Okay, let's go on.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
There was a loud crack and she said she needs
help and she's lying down home.
Speaker 15 (29:47):
So she got injured or uh yeah, I.
Speaker 12 (29:50):
Definitely injured shared herself.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
I'm not sure it was allowed.
Speaker 12 (29:57):
You know, it looks like she's been shot or shot.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Yeah, she saw that.
Speaker 9 (30:01):
Okay, I could come back and get my son out
of her car.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Yeah, I know, let's get Okay, we're getting somebody on
the way. I pulled up and there was a loud
you know, gunshot.
Speaker 13 (30:18):
Did you see anything or anyone?
Speaker 7 (30:20):
You just heard a loud pop.
Speaker 13 (30:22):
I heard the call for help, and.
Speaker 14 (30:23):
I saw the car.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
You saw, Well, I didn't.
Speaker 14 (30:26):
I didn't see the car. You didn't see the car
I saw.
Speaker 6 (30:29):
I noticed that a car was screwing away, but I
did not see it.
Speaker 12 (30:32):
Okay, anyone else, No, the same thing.
Speaker 17 (30:35):
We were aware that the car sped away, but we
did not actually cast us what it was.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
Okay, someone says there was a man in it.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
What about the lady at the sender?
Speaker 14 (30:44):
Did she see it?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Lot?
Speaker 14 (30:45):
Are people around here right now?
Speaker 8 (30:47):
Did you actually see the car?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, she didn't see it.
Speaker 16 (30:51):
Okay, are you in the parking lot.
Speaker 11 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (31:02):
Forty three year old Caroline Seawell was the seventh victim
in just three days. She just finished a simple errand
at Michael's and she was loading bags into her mini
van when a bullet pierced her back. It tore through
her liver and punctured her lung. But when detective McNerney
heard that this shooting, like the first, took place at
(31:22):
a Michael's craft store, he perked up.
Speaker 12 (31:25):
Now we at least have some connection, you know, what
are the connection between these two places? And so this
thing happens in Spotsylvania County in Virginia. My surprise, Nick said, listen,
you got two helicopters waiting for you over at the
police Academy and they'll take you down there. That was
my big adventure to fly in the helicopter with the FBI.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
As Detective McNerney flew south to Fredericksburg, Virginia, Caroline Seawell
was metavacked north to a hospital in Fairfax.
Speaker 12 (31:52):
As a matter of fact, our helicopters crossed one another's
path on the way down there.
Speaker 9 (31:57):
Seawell was rushed into emergency surgery and miraculously she survived. Meanwhile,
mcnerney's helicopter arrived in Fredericksburg.
Speaker 12 (32:07):
We landed right in the parking lot where the Michaels
was down there. And when I went in talking to
the manager of the place, you know, what is your
connection with Montgomery County? Oddly enough, the same guy who
set up the store Montgomery County set up the store
in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Okay, well, now we have a connection.
Then you know, why would somebody want to shoot you
(32:29):
or somebody at the store and we're coming up with
blanks on that.
Speaker 9 (32:34):
McNerney was convinced that the crimes were connected, but he'd
need a bullet to prove it.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
The round was recovered, or what was left of it.
As Sewell was putting stuff in the back of her van,
her arm was up pulling down the tailgate when she
was shot. The round went through her and stayed inside
the rear of the van. I met with the sheriff, explaining,
this is what we have Montgomery County. What you're telling
(33:01):
me here fits the things that we're looking for. And
then there was discussion about what are you going to
do with the round? And they're like, well, we'll submit
it to Virginia State Police and you know, we'll get
something back in a couple of months. Like, let me
make this offer to you. Sign the evidence over to me,
and I'll take it directly down to the ATF lab
(33:21):
and they'll examine it, hopefully within twenty four hours. They
ultimately said that's the better route, and fortunately for me,
the FBI stayed there with their helicopter. It was interesting though,
this was a sniper helicopter, Old Hughy. So on the
way down there, I could sit on the outboard seat
looking out the window, the doors wide open. But on
the way back the guys had their night vision goggles
(33:44):
on and they were sitting on the outboard seat like wow,
I didn't know it would be a target. But I
got back there, I took the round to ATF.
Speaker 17 (33:53):
He had his lights and sirens on and the brakes
were smoking when he reached the lab.
Speaker 9 (33:58):
That's forensic Firearm Examine Walter Dandridge Again.
Speaker 17 (34:02):
There was a lot of urgency during this time, but
the urgency wasn't at the sacrifice of quality. We didn't
do anything different with the sniper investigation other than once
we received the evidence, we worked it right through. If
that meant working all night. We did that as opposed
to quitting after eight hours.
Speaker 12 (34:22):
The next morning decision was, yes, it's included in our case.
Let's get the sheriff up here and do the press announcement.
Speaker 9 (34:33):
The weekend brought a break from the shootings, and some
wondered if the spree had ended as quickly as it began,
but police were working over time. They interviewed employees from Michaels,
questioned white box truck owners, and checked up on people
who'd recently bought or sold rifles in the area, but
they didn't come up with many promising leads. On Saturday,
(34:55):
October fifth, police said they had the tained demand Robert Baker,
who had been reported missing around the time of the shootings.
He'd left his home in Montgomery County, Maryland, and taken
with him a rifle that fired the same kind of
bullets used in the attacks, and reportedly he was affiliated
with militia and white supremacist groups, but after initial hopes
(35:18):
he was connected to the attacks, police ruled him out.
Speaking to the Washington Post, Montgomery County Police Chief Charles
Moose said, quote, I would just like to express the
fact that mister Baker's vehicle is a dark blue GMC
pickup truck. It never has been white, never has been
associated with the white box truck we've been talking about.
(35:45):
The Next day, Sunday, October sixth, marked the first funeral
for one of the victims, prim Kumar Wallaker, the taxi
driver who'd been shot at the gas station. Caroline Namro attended.
She was the doctor who witnessed the shooting and gave
of Wallacher CPR.
Speaker 15 (36:01):
It was very It was very emotional, obviously very devastating
to his family. They asked me what his final words
were and I told them, you know, unfortunately he didn't
have time to say any messages to his family. And
I did relate what had happened, and then they asked
(36:23):
me to speak, which I was quite shocked that they
wanted me to speak.
Speaker 10 (36:27):
It was a very big.
Speaker 15 (36:29):
Funeral, was in a church. During the time that people
were speaking, I had a few minutes to sit down
and collect my thoughts, and I did get up and speak.
I remember saying that it was such a terrible waste
of a life. This is devastating, and I remember thinking
that I should try and say something religious, because it
(36:52):
wasn't a church. So the only thing I could think
of was a blessing to the family, that God would
turn his face to them, shine his light on them,
and give them peace, which is the priestly blessing. And
I said to the police liaison lady, I said, I
don't want my face to be on television. They still
(37:12):
hadn't found the snipers. I didn't want anybody to find
me or come to the house or anything. In the evening,
if I was putting the kids to bed and it
was very quiet in the house, just felt a little nervous.
Speaker 9 (37:27):
Everyone shared that anxiety, even police officers working the case.
Here's retired Maryland State Police Lieutenant David Reichenbaugh.
Speaker 7 (37:35):
Again, I was a parent of a teenage girl at
that point. Hey, your kids are everything. There's concern, there's panic,
and of course there's that. I want to call it
the unrealistic thought process, because I went through it too.
I was concerned about my kid. Is my kid going
to be a target in all this. Now, the police
(37:59):
side of me says, that's just unrealistic and the odds
are astronomical. But dad part of me says, hey, my
kid could be the next target. I guarantee you every parent,
certainly in Montgomery County and now the District of Columbia.
We're beginning to think the same thing. How could you not?
(38:23):
And then Monday October seventh, eight oh eight am, Benjamin
Tasker Middle School are worst fear?
Speaker 9 (38:33):
Next time? On Monster DC Sniper.
Speaker 8 (38:37):
This was a copy of.
Speaker 12 (38:38):
Prince George's County Now on one call.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Well, Hello, this is in middle school.
Speaker 6 (38:43):
Uh you got a child out the station. All right,
I'm the Prince school to school here, I don't know where,
I have no idea.
Speaker 7 (38:56):
That's the deathshead terror card. The message here is that
quite obvious.
Speaker 10 (39:01):
Call me God.
Speaker 7 (39:02):
They decide who lives, they decide who dies.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
There was a very quick realization that this could be
the next stage of a terror campaign.
Speaker 7 (39:14):
And there it is all over network news, which meant
we had an internal leak.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Monster d C Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted
by Tony Harris and produced by iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, alongside producers Trevor Young, ben keebrig and Josh Thain,
Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Are executive producers on behalf
(39:49):
of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stedman and Christina Dana.
Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. If you
haven't already, be to check out the first two seasons,
Atlanta Monster and Monster the Zodiac Killer. If you have
questions or comments, email us at Monster at iHeartMedia dot com,
(40:10):
or you can call us at one eight three three
two eight five six six sixty seven. Thanks for listening.
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