March 6, 2025 • 52 mins
Are you ready for your closeup? After a couple of weeks of having some of their favorite former co-stars on the pod (Nine-Nine!), Stephanie and Melissa are feeling real thespian. This week, they’re talking about Acting. From their theater school roots to their thoughts on method acting, strap in because we’re getting realllllllll nerdy. And the Oscar for best podcast listener in the world goes to… you!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
More, more Better, More, More Better, More. Welcome to More Better,
a podcast where we stop pretending to have it all
together and embrace the journey of becoming a little more
(00:22):
better every day, or at least trying to. That's Stephanie Beatrice,
and that's Melissa and Merrow. And this you know what
this is because you've turned it on. It's you clicked it. Yeah,
that's right, you clicked it on purpose that it's so
rude you clicked it. Welcome back to the to the
(00:49):
podcast where to absolutely non experts expertly guide you through
our non expert advice. We're really us here to talk
some ship. Yeah that's right ship. How you doing friend?
I'm okay, you know, just hanging in there. Just yeah,
(01:09):
hanged and haanging in there. More Better. So this week
on the pod, we're going to talk about, uh, we're
gonna talk about acting. It's about to get real nerdy,
real insidery, oral niche. Hopefully it's funny, but you know,
(01:29):
we can't promise you that. I'm just gonna come out
straight and say that we cannot promise that this will
be funny. We hope it is, but it might just
be super super nerdy and this is not all research
that we haven't done. We've done this research because we
went to school for the ship. Yeah, we did yeah,
degrees in this Yeah. Well, I mean technically I don't
(01:52):
have my degree. I don't think. But it didn't did
you not finish? Wait? Do I not know that I
fail a class? I failed a stage management class because
I can't management. Yes, we had to take everything, and
I think, like, I think I may have my degree now,
(02:14):
like I think that they, Oh did you get an honorary?
I might listen, I fancy. I mean, I went through
the whole program. I did everything. I the only thing
that I like, haven't I think? I like I it
just listen. Organization. Organization wasn't my forte. When I was
(02:35):
in college, I was a disaster on two legs. Like
it was a mess. And now now I'm a different story.
I could chase that class with flying colors, but at
the time with their eyes closed at the time, well,
I don't know about that, but at the time I
was a mess. I just couldn't. It was like you
had to keep a binder and you had to keep
like cues and like I kept thinking, like what am
(02:59):
I ever going to this I'm never going to do.
That's what I was going to say. The fact that
they made stage management a requirement was in that same
clearer degree. But yeah, I a class, I'll take a test,
but like the test was you that feels.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Like an elective, That feels like an election telling me,
I mean, I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I couldn't believe it. I was like, what, I failed
this class and they were like, you did. Anyway, that
that is not a failed class does not mean anything
in the end. I mean, it might mean that you
don't have no but it means less if you're like,
I'm not trying to be a dentist, I'm just playing pretend.
So probably fine.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I think I think you've done okay for yourself despite
that stage management.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I feel fine. I think you've done more than a fine.
But yes, What's what's really funny about this is that
this is the thing that we both love to do
so much. So this might go all over the place,
but I do I do want to touch on stuff
that we like about it. So we're going to talk about,
you know, our experience getting into it a little bit bit.
(04:06):
But if you've listened to the pod or like know
us at all, Like we've talked a little bit about
this already on the pod. We're going to talk about
stuff like different kinds of techniques that we like, our
actual training, if there's techniques that we don't like, performances
that we've seen, stuff like that, so and then like
(04:30):
how we prep. So if you're into that kind of stuff,
then yay. And if you're not, thank you so much
for joining us on the pod and we'll see next week. Okay, bye.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
You know what I love too that we're talking about this.
I don't know if you've noticed this, but uh, and
because I've always been curious why, and I want to
know what you think. Have you ever noticed that, you know,
they do these like actor round tables or like back
in the day when there used to be like the
actors studio, which I used to fu love, which it
(05:01):
happened less on inside the actor's studio actually because they
would get pretty in depth and nerdy there, but like
this general kind of cageeness that actors have about their
like specific technique or like how they prep or like
what the things they do. Have you noticed this that
like it's almost like and I don't know if it's
like gatekeeping or which I'm just like, there's so many
(05:25):
different approaches and techniques, Like just because you talk about
one doesn't mean that like there's going to be this
influx of actors that are all of a sudden amazing,
like you know, or is it just like a self
consciousness Like I don't want to sound real stupid or that. Yeah,
I mean, but I just feel like actors get real
cagey when they are talking about technique or their approach, right.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Is it just me? Well, Okay, I have some thoughts.
I yes, I agree. I think there's like a certain
amount of cageness that happens. I think acting is like uh,
I mean, it's when you break it down, it's like
playing pretend, like really really hard, you know, Like that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
It is also a hard thing to describe like exactly
what you do. Yeah, that's it's very difficult. And some
people have gifts in some ways and and others have
gifts in other ways. And you know that's why sometimes
you watch something and you're like, God, this person is
so believable in this thing. And sometimes you watch something
and you're like, oh God, this person's so famous and
they got this.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Role and like yeah, and I don't know, you know,
so yeah, I think there's and there's so many like
political things that go into casting, like you know, and
who you're, who your parents are, and you know how
old you are, how old you look like if you've
had a baby, or you know what ethnicity you look. Yeah,
(06:48):
it's so it's there's so many bits. So, like I
think a lot of actors talking about acting sometimes I
think it's because we do play pretend, but we take
it so seriously. We take it so seriously that when
we talk about it the way that we actually feel
(07:09):
about it, sometimes it sounds to people that don't really
understand what we're doing in that way, it sounds like,
what are you talking about? You're not like fucking oh.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, like get off your high hors, you're not all that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know, you're not saving lives, right, I'm not. You know,
you're not you're not doing any of that. So it
sounds it can sound like people are really full of themselves. Yeah,
that's true. So I think some actors just like avoid that,
probably because there are pr people are like, don't talk
about your process because people often sound fucking full of themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So maybe that yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, because I now,
as you said that, I like flash to like seeing
some actors that get like real into like talk and
they do kind of get this like tone in their void.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Well do that, you know, and then it's.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Just like, oh my god, shut up are yeah, and
like that's real, Like I'm sorry. In advance, if we
cut to five minutes from now, we're like, so I
just like need to put myself in this frame of
men and then I transcend and the work flows through
my body and onto the screen channel.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, yeah, cut to five minutes from now. I mean
that's a hard thing about talking about it because it
is such an ephemeral you know, it's like it's like
dust in the wind a little bit.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, you know, it's like dust and it's like this
mystical little thing that you're always chasing.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean, I don't know what's
the first what's the first performance that you ever saw
that you were like, holy shit, m holy fucking shit,
where you where you could delineate and my own I'm
gonna be really specific about this, okay, where you could
delineate as a kid, you were like, oh that since acting,
(09:01):
and they're really good at it I have not not
like yeah, okay, okay, I want to hear I have one.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Claire Dans my so called life. She was thirteen or
fourteen when she did that show.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
She was wow.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yes, And that was the thing when I found out
how old she was, because I think I was around
the same age, and she was so good on that show,
and then she did Little Women shortly after.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Oh my god, she's so good in Little Women.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And she's she's a teenager and Little Women, and there
was something about like like not even being aware that
like someone that young could do that, and then it
kind of sparking I think something in me of like
could like almost giving me permission to like, oh, you
can be.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Great at something at this age.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like maybe I just always quantified things as like you
need time and experience in training and and then at
a certain point you're good. But like this idea that
maybe you have a certain level of talent or and
you can train at any age and like be grat
at a thing. She was so phenomenal in that show
and in that movie that those two performances, and she
(10:17):
was so young. It was really her age and her
youth that like struck me. Yeah, of just like the
pot like that it was even possible, Like yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, it just that's cool. What about you? I mean
when you bring up Claar Danes, I remember seeing Romeo
and Juliet bos Lehrman's Romeo and Juliet at sixteen. In
Romeo and Juliet, I think she's so young family, but
the whole cast phenomenal. That's another one, so youthful, so phenomenal.
(10:50):
Like I think by that time I kind of understood
that acting. I was like, oh, this is a job
that you could do, right, but like when this is
slightly embarrassing, but like Tom Hanks and Forrest Gump, oh
my god, that was another one.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Tom Hank saw that in the theater those years where
it was like Forrest Gump Philadelphia, Like he just had
this one of these movies where he was like incredible
and so fucking different in every single role. Oh. I
remember going to one of my college auditions and like
they asked me about an actor that I looked up to,
(11:25):
and I was like, I was like nervous about how
it was going to be received because at that point
he was still like it was like when he was
doing those movies.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
But Prior to that, he was known as a comedy actor.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yea, And I loved all his comedies, Oh my god,
all his comedies Turner and Huge, Splash, like big, all
of those iconic and so I remember I was like
nervous to say, and I was.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Like, well, I don't know, uh, you know, this is
a good one. But like, I really love Tom Hanks.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I think he's amazing and like so different in all
his roles.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And then they kind of like Tom Hanks but like
but like his hit, I feel like it was like
early yeah, yeah, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Was like maybe just Philadelphia and Forrest Gump had come
out by that whomeint Yeah, I mean that was the
first time that I remember openly.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Weeping in a movie. Yes, and also at the same
time thinking, this is what I want to do for people.
I want to people. I want people to feel stuff. Yeah,
I want people to feel stuff and like be able
to feel stuff because of the thing that I do.
And I didn't exactly know what that meant, but I
(12:41):
think elements of that are still what I feel about acting.
It's like some people, you know, that's why we go
to the movies. I think why we go to the
movies where we watch TV is like we want to
have an experience. Yeah, and sometimes that experience is like
comfort and closeness, and sometimes that experience is joy and fun.
(13:04):
And sometimes that experience is like a repetition of some
like comforting feeling that we had as kids. And sometimes
that experience is like I'm going to go on a
fucking ride and I don't know what's gonna happen after,
and you know, and all of those things are like
they are the experience of diving into a story, and like,
(13:26):
that's what I want to do. I want to be
in things that feel so real that people were like, whoo,
yeah that was crazy. That ride was crazy. You know. Yeah,
that ride was so fun. I want to go back
on that ride. You know. That's yeah. That that movie.
Wo that movie. I mean I still remember. So we
were sitting in the middle of the theater and I
was like sobbing and my sister was like stop.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It also one of the best, one of the best
movie soundtracks of all time. Oh my god, so beautiful
all time. I used to play it NonStop.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
So that.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
But also the instrument yes, like the score of that
movie gorgeous, is gorgeous, gorgeous?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Bang on a song here? I still remember it. When
did you start? You Like, I think we've talked about
this before, so you can give a condensed version of this,
but like.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I guess I kind of technically started kind of young.
I started as a dancer, as I've said, going to
dance classes, and then I followed a dance teacher to
this dance in theater school where they had acting classes
and musical comedy classes. The musical comedy class was like
the popular one that a lot of the kids did,
and I think that was And so I was like,
(14:48):
when did I start with a musical comedy?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Like nine or ten? Thank god?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And I just fell in love with it because it
was it was singing and it was dancing, and it
was un was comedy. I didn't. I wasn't like super
plugged into the fact that it was comedy, you know.
I just liked getting laughs. And then it was you know,
and then it was like drama too, sometimes like depending
(15:13):
on but we would do basically musical scenes from different
Broadway shows and or movie musicals, and uh, and I
loved it. I was like obsessed. And then yeah, I
started taking more acting classes from there, and what about you.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It was junior high like public school, you know, theater
and more like a speech in debate class, and then
they did like plays every year and so like it
was starting to get my fee in that way and
like going, ooh, that's fun, you know, like yeah, turning
disappearing into somebody else. Yeah, it was My main thing
was like nobody knows it's me, you know, I get
(15:53):
to be somebody totally different, somebody that's like so much
more confident than me, yeah, or like yeah, or really
silly and just so so like expressions of self that
were just so different. But I did Little Women in
high school. I was Joe and that was a big
deal for me. It was such a big deal. It
(16:14):
was so fun and just thrilling, exciting, you know. I
had a little wig. It looked really good.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
My first play in high school was I'm trying to
remember which one, but it was a Neil Simon play.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Not Neil Simon in high school. Yeah, oh my god,
I can't remember which one it was. But it was good.
It was funny, dang, you know. But at that time,
I don't think I really understood anything about technique really.
I mean, we were kind of learning things in class,
(16:51):
but it was, like I said, it was public school.
It was more like just you just like throw yourself
at it and kind of see what sticks. So it
was really just on instinct. It was just like what
do I think instinctually that might be right, you know,
And it was mostly like learning lines and like figuring
out where you stand on the stage. It wasn't any
(17:12):
like I didn't have any like technical stuff yet. It
was all I was working solely on instincts, solely on
instinct until probably senior year of high school, and then
maybe I like read something, you know, like maybe we
did like some exercise or something. But I really didn't
have any like training training other than just trying stuff,
(17:36):
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, yeah, kind I mean I think there was I
got a basic introduction to technique through the dance and
theater school I attended, and then in high school the
drama club. The drama teacher was like I think, you know,
he used to be an actor and he went to
theater school, and so I remember having a basic knowledge
of like what's your action verb in the scene, and
(18:00):
what's your intention at the start of the scene.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And or what's your moment before.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Like these kind of I think overall kind of things
because when I got to college, I definitely was mostly
working off instinct, but I did have like a basic
vocabulary for like how you know the acting one oh one? Right,
like who's your character and what are you trying to
do in the scene?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
And like, yeah, I feel like I have memories of.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
One of my teachers, you know, if they would stop
a scene being like what are you trying to do?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
What are you? What are you doing? Oh? I didn't
have that until college.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, we didn't, and then in college it got like
much more specific, but like yeah, like knowing that, oh
I should I should have a verb when I go
into a scene like in my mind and my god,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I wish I had, you know, I wish I had
right now, I wish I had my like notebook from
I had this teacher in college, Rob Rasnowski. He was phenomenal, phenomenal,
and he had us. He had a class that was
like acting one oh one. Basically it was like acting
one on one, one on two, I think for the semesters,
and it was like how to break down a scene?
(19:11):
Who are you in the scene? What do you want
from the other person in the scene? How what is
the verb?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Where what you know? It was the first time that
I ever ever was taught like you can look at
the script and like look at everything anybody says about
your character. You can look at this script and see
like what the actions are around your care what your
character's doing, Like what do people say about your character?
What do people not say about your character? Where is
(19:39):
your character when different scenes are taking place? Like it
was all about like how to take like mine the
actual written words for what all thea that the script gives. Yes, Yeah,
it was the first time that I ever was like
this is the map. This is the map, and then
you can build on the map. But this is the
map for the thing, right. It was like so exciting
(20:01):
to learn that. I still remember doing scenes from that
clot because first we'd break it down and we would
like highlight the scripts and like show you know, show
different you know, ten highlighters and you're highlighting like what
the different things are, and like showing you a little
you know, key to your map and like this is
your action words and these are the these are things
(20:22):
other people say about you, and these are things you
say about yourself and this is what you want, this
is what you're hiding, and blah blah blah. And then
he had us team up with someone in the class
and do the scene. Like he assigned us all different characters,
and then we would do the scenes with another person
who had been assigned the other character in the scene.
And it was like one of the first times I
remember things like clicking for me in a way that
(20:44):
wasn't about necessarily, like, ooh, this person is just like me.
This character that I'm playing, I understand completely. It's like oheah,
I learned more about the character and now I can
play them in a way that feels real to me
in the scenes. Yes, Rob Oh, great teacher. Great teacher.
Teacher Rob. He was also one of the first teachers
(21:05):
that was like, you got to bring yourself to the
things that you do. Like h I would riff and
do my mom's very thick accent, her Bolivian accent. I
would riff and do it all the time in class.
And then he made me audition for something hot Old Baltimore.
He made me audition for it and do the accent
for the character. He was like, no, I want you
(21:26):
to read the scenes of the accent. I was like, uh,
I don't think so, and he was like, I want
you to read the scenes of the accent. And it
was like the whole the whole scene like blossom. Yeah,
and the character blossomed. And that was one of my
first roles in college, was hot Old Baltimore. Was like
it just like burst out of me. It was so fun.
Oh oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, let's talk about exercises that acting teachers have made
us too.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Hey, I hate it so much. This is the thing
that I really struggle with. This because we've talked about
this on the pod. I don't I struggle with like
stupid shit, you know. And some days I'm just like,
I don't know how walking around in the room like
a cat is gonna serve what we're doing here. I
don't understand how, And maybe it is just to shake
(22:23):
you out of your like stupid, like yeah, stupid. You know.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I had an acting teacher that I was not very
fond of once in college, and he had to do
the same warm up every day, which was like walk
around in a circle and then he would say like.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's really cold.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's cold, and like, so everyone be like fucking shivering
and like doing all this stuff. Then you'd be like,
it's really hot, it's really hot. Someone's following you. You
feel like someone's following you. And every I thought that
exercise was such a fucking bullshit. I was like, I
don't get the point of this. You've never explained what
the point of this is. This isn't a warm up.
Everyone's just indicatingating behavior for like indicating what a dirty
(23:05):
acting it is such a dirty word.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Anytime I get super triggered anytime a director has like
given me a note like you're indicating for those of
you who are maybe listening to this and don't do
what we do, And you're like, what the fuck are
they talking about? Uh? Indicating means like basically that somebody
doesn't believe you, Like it's basically what it is.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And you're not believable that you're just like making a
show of doing the action.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Right, So like if you're supposed to be cold in
the scene or just like shivering and doing all this stuff,
but like it's not real, like it's you know, itis
is fake. Yes, And yeah, so I used to just
like walk in the circle and not do anything it's
so funny.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Oh my god, would you ever get called out? No, no, no,
because paying attention anyway, I or I know. I think
it was to give him some credit.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I think it was he was coming from a place
of like, it's your interpretation, so like, yeah, I would
maybe like rub my arm if it was like.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Film acting a little bit, you're just yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Was playing everything super subtle. But I just really hated it.
But going back to one that you brought up, I
will push back. I have a hot take on animal
work because I do like it, and I do think
it's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I think, yes, it.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Breaks because you feel fucking stupid when you're doing it.
Like when a teacher would ask you to like walk
across the room. We used to play a game where, uh,
we would have to choose an animal. We'd walk across
the room and the class would have to guess what
animal we were fuck or.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
But we would have to do the animal as a character.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So for example, I think I chose like turtle ones
and I like tried to be this like old lady
that just would like stretch her neck out and like
see if it was safe and then like kind of
like go back in and like walk around. But I
what I found with those exercises was you can discover
(25:06):
like physicalities for character and interesting ways.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, that's real, that's really real. I mean, none of
this stuff is garbage. It's just sometimes, but it's also
like garbage when you're nineteen and you're like, I'm an actor,
what is this trap? A hun And the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Is is like you have to do all those exercises
to essentially, like I think, build your actor toolbox, right,
because this is not like a one size fits all
type of thing.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
There's techniques and things that work for some people that
do not fucking work for others.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, and you know, so it's it's like something you
kind of have to go through and you feel super
uncomfortable and you hate most of it. Most of it
feels like fucking bullshit and you hate it. And then
once in a while there'll be one that just like
unlocks something and you you file it away and your
little actor box and you're like, I'm gonna use that
(26:01):
one day. One day that's gonna come in handy, and
then it does. And like, I think it's just about
building the tools because the thing I think that's for
me really challenging about our day, about our job is
like every day is so different, and sometimes you have
personal shit going on or your mind is somewhere else,
and like when you arrive on set, like you have
(26:23):
to do that job, you have to live in that character's.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, brain and body.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, And sometimes it's not enough to just like imagine
yourself conjure yourself there right like and I think that's
where like the craft or the technique comes in, because
there's days where I'm just like, oh, I need help
right now, and I will find myself like truly going
(26:51):
back to the basics, it's like I'm super unfocused or
I'm dealing with this personal shit, but I gotta do this.
So like what is my intention in this scene? It
is my moment before, Like what can I do to
get myself like into this headspace?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah? Yeah. One of the things I liked about college
for me was that there wasn't one specific technique that
we studied, and it was just that there were a
bunch of different ones that we worked through, and that
was helpful to me. It has become helpful to me
in my professional life, and it was helpful to me
(27:28):
in college because not some things like don't always work,
meaning like something's just don't like you're saying sometimes that
day that fucking thing is not your sense memory moment,
It just isn't. She's not she's not coming that there.
Stay there, Try something else, like you gotta just like
(27:48):
try something else, right. And the more I feel the
more that you know about this stuff, the more that
you're trying stuff more like I'm walking like a bug
in turtle or whatever, more stuff you discover, you know.
And sometimes I like to randomly watch people's audition.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Tapes like on YouTube and stuff, because I find, like
I did it today because it was like.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
What is what what are they doing? You know, like
how are they doing this? And what I find a
lot is that more than likely their performance that they
give in the film is actually the performance that they
gave in the audition. Yeah, you know, because I just
fucking rite for it. They were just right for it,
and they were ready. They were ready, They had all
(28:35):
their stuff memorized, and they knew the take that they
were going to do, and they trusted that what their
work was, and they were just it was just you know,
like you could be really right for something. Now I'm
going on a tangent, but like you could be really
right for something and like not be ready for it
and not have your technique down and not be memorized
and not be not be awake and alive in the scene,
(29:00):
and like maybe you're really really right for it, but like, oh,
like you know. One of the things I think that
I've learned a lot in the past few years is like,
you know, when you're in college, Well, when I was
in college, I kind of thought, oh, the director's supposed
to like help you, guide you and like right for
(29:20):
this performance out of you. And yeah, it's just not
really that way. The director has so many things going on,
and yes, sometimes the director's job is to give you
a key and unlock something with you, but they've also
got a jillion bajillion other things going on, and so
(29:41):
really what they need is for you as an actor
to be ready from the get from the accition, basically
like to be that's what they see.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, you're just an instrument and a giant orchestra that
they're conducting.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Right, and so like you need to know how to
play your instrument. You really need to be like first chair.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's so true. They're there to like, yes, I think
guide you. I think maybe elevate, like you said, unlock something.
But like they're they're not gonna Your performance is up
to you.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, man, it really is.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I really the times that i've directed, I've really loved
watching all the auditions and I felt like I learned,
you know, you hear it so much and everyone says it, like,
but if you're an actor, if any chance you could
get to watch people's auditions is really valuable because what
you mostly see is most of the people you see
could do it, and they'd be great. You know, in
(30:37):
some instances they'd be fine, but it would be good,
like you you know, you know, it wouldn't ruin the scene,
It wouldn't ruin the episode. But and most of the
time the person it goes to either just made a
strong choice that works in their audition that like set
them apart from everyone else, because there's like, you read
a scene, and if you have ten people, pretty much
(31:01):
all ten are going to more or less read that
scene the same way. And then sometimes there's gonna be
one or two people that just put an extra specific
thing on it, or they put a flare on it,
or they just make a big choice in one section,
and then that kind of sets them apart. And then
the other thing that no one can fucking explain or
control is like an essence thing, like they just feel
(31:24):
like that character, Like you can't even put your finger
on it. They just you can picture them in wardrobe,
and you can picture them in the scene and it's
like just a vibe that they have.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Oh my god, that makes my stomach so.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Frustrating, because you want a stomach I know, I know,
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
God, cause I have to put some shape and I'm
just like, oh.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
No, So how do you prep for an audition?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Let's talk about that. I study a lot. I read
the script. I read the script because I think a
lot of times people don't. Yes, I remember reading this
book a long time ago. I don't know if I
still have it. It's called Talent is Overrated. But one
of the things that they talk about in that book
is that, like, you know, there's a lot of talented people,
(32:17):
but there's not a lot of people that will want
to put in the work. So just by putting in
the work, you separate yourself from the other talented people, right,
And so like I'm going to memorize the motherfucking living
daylights out of that audition. Those sides, like, I'm going
to have them memorize. I've run them already probably ten
(32:39):
times each yeah, with my sister, and I'm going to
memorize them more after this recording. M Yeah, I need
to be fully memorized for auditions.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I am.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I try to be like as much off the page
as I can be, because I think when I look
at people's auditions, like when I look at people that
book the job, a lot of times they're like up
and they're acting with the reader, or they're acting with
their significant other whoever they're they're reading with, or just
like with him with them, you know, as opposed to
(33:12):
like down and trying to find stuff. Not to say
that I don't, but I really really want to be
completely off book. But it's hard, Like I mean thinking
about like making big choices and being like sometimes you're
just not right for the thing. I'm like, I don't know,
I know if I'm gonna be right, but I mean
like I could play it like, but I might not
(33:34):
be right for it. So like sometimes you just have
to sort.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Of like like do it anyway, even though you feel
like sick to your stomach about it, but also there's
also that there's always a possibility that yes, maybe on
the page you're like, I don't know if I'm right
for this, but then they see you and they see
something new and different and they're like, oh, maybe this
character isn't what we originally thought. This is so much
more interesting Stephanie, my mattress is so much more interesting
(34:02):
in this.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Role, and now we kind of want Tot's like, let's hope,
let's pray, and so let's pray and hope.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I once did a like an alumni panel NYU and
it was all actors and this one actor, Noah Weisberg.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
What up?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Noah very talented actor, works all the time, it's Broadway
and TV, and he had the best freaking gems at
this panel, and he talked about auditioning and he completely
like reframed it for me that because at that time
I was like working but still struggling auditioning all the time,
(34:42):
mostly getting rejected. And he was like, my audition is
I get to go to work that day, I get
to do this thing that I love to do for
twenty minutes or an hour or.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Whatever it is. If it's on tape, it's in a
room wherever it is.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
I get to go to work, and he's like, and
I don't look at it as an audition. I just
look at it is like I get to go to
work today. Today, I get to go to work.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And that's great advice. But I cannot separate. I can't separate. Also,
I am not getting paid. I mean, right, it's so
hard to separate. I get to do this fun scene
and also like, but I also want I want to
(35:24):
do this scene again. I want to do it on
film with actors that I like and enjoy their work,
and I want to play with the other person. Yeah,
like doing a scene by yourself at home, or like
even with a reader, even if they're really good, it's
just not the same as like doing it with somebody
who's work you admire or like or you don't know
(35:48):
and you're learning from. It's just like it's it's so
electric when it's like really happening, as opposed to like
I'm auditioning for something, you know, It's like one is
just so different than the other. Even so the core
of the thing still has to be the same, which
is like your ability to conjure, conjure the realness the
(36:08):
realness of the thing more really quick, Let's talk about
like speaking of conjuring. Let's talk about conjuring. Let's talk
about like, there's a bunch of techniques of acting. I
struggle with some of them. I don't love some of them.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Let's talk about the ones that I studied in school
were the big The big ones are like, Okay, Stanislavski
UH method acting, which just Strasburg stella Adler, which was
another Uh Santislavski student.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
She and Strasburg were students of Santaslavski Meisner Meisner, Meisterisner Meisner. Now,
there's a lot of things about Meisner that are great.
There's some things that are I love Uda Hagen, I
will say I do love Uda Hagen's book, Yes, and
(37:12):
particularly when I was a younger actor, because I think,
especially as a younger actor, I got super into the
feeling of like I don't know how to apply these techniques.
And Hogen udah Hagen is very very about like substitution.
It's like substitution of real life experience.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
To me, it's a it's a clearer it's a clearer
definition of substitution than Strasburg's sort of approach to substitution
to me, was always almost like self indulgent, Like I
felt like.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So a n YU.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
All these studios were like you when you become a
drama major, you audition, you get into NYU, they place
you in a studio. And so there's a Strasburg Studio,
the Adler Studio, the Meisner Studio, the Atlantic Theater Company Studio,
and blah blah blahlah lah. I was in the musical
Theater one. So I got like a little sprinkling of
everything and I kind of noticed sorry little bit of
(38:11):
shade to the Strasburg.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Studio.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I felt like when I would watch the Strasburg actors
act in some things that they were all like very
like internal, like in their own world as opposed to
like really reacting and listening off of another actor.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Because I and then when I like learned more about
the technique, I was like, oh, that makes sense, Like
it's so based in substitution, but from this like really
kind of internal place inside place where I felt like
Udah Haugen's approach to substitution was more I don't know,
it was more active.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
It was more like.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Taking the event or taking the feeling that you're substituting
and placing it in but still like create using instinct
and imagine work and being in the scene.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. Getting I'm like, sup,
just got super nerdy. No. No, I'm curious about like
whether those Stosberg students, like whether if you put a
camera on them, would it still feel sort of self
indulgent and you know, like if you cut them into
a film, like if they edited their performance, would it
(39:22):
feel that way or would it look really really real
because they're really like like using sense, memory and going
through something. I don't know, I don't know the answer
to that, but like I'm curious about that because I've
certainly seen I mean, I've seen a lot of shows
on Broadway and off, but I've seen actors that are
film actors on Broadway that are phenomenal and commanding of
(39:47):
an audience and like incredible and like, you know, just electric.
And then I've seen film actors who are you know,
really really good on television in television and film, and
then they're on stage and I'm like, well, I'm glad
I'm sitting in the fourth row because like if I
was in the back of the house, I couldn't see
(40:08):
any of what you were feeling. And it's a beautiful performance,
but it's not a stage. It's so small. Yeah, right,
So like those two things are really really different things,
really different things. And then you see the opposite too.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
You see actors that are brilliant in theater, brilliant on Broadway,
and then you put them on camera film everything is
just too big too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, it's it's is my constant feeling. But because the
balance of like sometimes I'm not sure what the tone
of the thing is that I'm auditioning for, you know,
because like I read it in one tone, but maybe
it's not that tone, and then I like make it
take a big swing, and I'm like, well, I don't know,
you know, like, yeah, I don't know if it's that
(40:50):
or was I in the right play? Was I in
the right play? Or was I was I in the
theater next door. That's a really hard one. I mean,
I think for me as a younger actor or substitution,
which you know, to give you like not a professional no.
Our interpretation is like you use your personal experiences to
(41:14):
help you create a reaction to what's happening to the character.
So like, if you have never lived through somebody dying
and your scene is about someone dying, right, Like, you
use something that's close, like maybe you had a pet die,
or maybe you like lost someone that was really close
to you, or maybe you have a fear of dying,
(41:35):
and like you use that and put it into the
scene and to like help you emotionally get to the
place where you are locked a lot of emotion. But
then you're also saying the lines that are in the scene,
right and like sometimes and still today, I'll use it
in a pinch, but I rarely use it anymore because
it's too much for me sometimes, Does that make sense? Like, well,
(41:58):
it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
I I my first year acting teacher was like my
mentor at Doug Mauston. He was incredible and he when
he was teaching us substitution, I remember him saying, you
can't use anything that you haven't healed from because it
will fuck with your mind.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
That's such a big, big, big, big great piece of advice.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yes, And he was like, if you think of your
memories as and your painful memories as like scabs or scars, right, Like,
don't use it while it's a scab, because then you're
just ripping that scab open every time. He was like,
you have to wait till it's it's a scar and
then you can go back and access it.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
That's really interesting if.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
That works for you, which that you know, Yeah, I've
always struggled with substitution, but he was very adamant about
not using things that are more raw unless unless well
there was a stipulation of like, if it's helping you process,
there it is.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
There it is if it's helping you.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Work through sar things, Yeah, as long as that it's
that approach. But if you're just going back to a
really painful thing and reliving it over and over again, yeah, yeah.
He was like, your work will eventually suffer, but more importantly,
you'll suffer as a human being.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
You'll sufferer, and like that's one of the things that's
most important about using substitution is not being really careful
with it, because it is it is like giving of yourself.
And I would say, I would say, like, if you
use something too much, you can deaden yourself, Like the
(43:36):
sharpness of that thing becomes dull, and the your ability
to use it, it's like you can still cut with
a dull knife. But it can it's like you're digging
at something like really gnarly, you know. Yeah. I mean
I have used substitution before in acting where it's like
(43:58):
I will just this make sense or not, but like
I won't like dig into it. I'll just like touch it,
you know, like just like a little touch of it,
and then like I touch it, I burn. Like I
you don't even burn my finger. I just like feel
the heat of it and then move away and like
do the scene. Yeah, and like take the take the
energy of the of the of the heat and go
(44:20):
into the scene. You don't have to put your whole
fucking hand on the fire, right, Like, you just take
a little bit of it and move yourself through into
the scene. I don't. I don't think that's suffering hard,
hard hard for the thing because I've done it.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
I've done that already in my youth, and I don't
want to do it again.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I also don't. I'm not a method actor. I think
a lot of people don't really understand method.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I feel like it's a term that's been tossed around
in a very uh sloppy way in the last couple decades.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, it's just a type technique.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It doesn't mean like you know when they taught And
it's funny to me when they talk about like method
actors that are in character all day on set, at
least the way I was taught, like these different techniques
that fall under the method umbrella.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
That's not method. Like the method is that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You can click into your character and then drop it
when you need to drop it like that that was
always taught to me, is like the whole point it wasn't.
I don't know where. At some point it became.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Like you have to do this all the time. You
have to do this.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
All the time, and like live in the thing, like
and if you're going to be drunk in a scene,
actually be drunk.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Like that's not method like that you you're no, Like
that's the opposite. I will say the thing that I'm
talking the thing that I was talking about that sort
of like touching something is something that Strasburg talked about
a lot, which is like emotional recall distinctive moments an
actor has had in their real life and repurposing those
(45:58):
moments to convey a character convincingly on stage. So like
that to me is like part of what's tricky about Strasbourg,
and like all of this stuff is like acting is
a lot of it is in your brain, psychological stuff
that then you convey through your body and mouth and
the way your face looks or whatever you indicate like
(46:20):
what you're feeling, right, But yeah, it starts in your brain.
So like different people's brains work different ways, which is
why there are all these techniques, because not one is
gonna work for everyone.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
No more.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Before we wrap this up, because we've been talking about
this for the fucking ever. One of my favorite books
is this book that I read when I was younger,
called The Actor and the Target by Declan Donellan, who's
a theater director.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Oh yes, it's been sitting on my nightstand for months.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Specific technique. I really enjoyed this book as a young actor,
and like I've gone back to it quite a bit
because Donald talks about the target, which is a specific,
active focal point outside of the actor that directs their
performance and helps them overcome common acting anxieties like feeling
(47:23):
lost or feeling unsure about what to do. It is
like a practical it's basically a practical guide. But what
he says essentially is like you want something in this scene,
like you want something, so not only just like focus
on what you want, but like the thing that you
want is constantly changing, like you desire you know, maybe
(47:47):
it's someone, but like your desire for them is like
sometimes you're what you're desiring is like, well, I need
you to listen to me right now, like, oh, now
I need you to like calm down, Okay. Now I
need you to like sit in this chair so that
I can tell you what I need. Now I need
you to look at me. Now I need you to
you know, like now I need the room to be quiet.
Now I need like the space to like and now
(48:09):
I need to not be sweating. Oh my god. You
know it's like the thing, the thing that you need
is constantly shifting and changing and is like moving. The
target is moving, so like you have to be moving
also not like physically moving, but like your brain has
to be like going, like how do I continue to
get the thing that I want? I love that it's
really sounds it sounds a little bit too to me.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Of Like, there was this book that David was reading
once about it was actually about professional athletes. Oh and
they talk about the flow being in flow and when
you're like snowboarders, for example, we'll talk about being in
flow and they go down and every trick is just
like flowing out of them and they're moving seamlessly from
(48:51):
when the target keeps moving, but they're with it the
whole time, and I think it does you know. The
goal is always to feel that in a scene, and when
it really happens, it's like this incredible feeling where you're
just yeah, I think your eye is on that target
and you're following the target as it moves, but you're
and you're with your partner and you're you're both in
(49:13):
flow together and moments are happening and the scene just
clicks and it's you know, and when it finishes, you're
just like, holy shit, I was like really living in it.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, from start to finish.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
You know, there was no even even if there's technical
things that happen where you have to like it, it didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
It didn't matter like part of it. It was part
of it.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
You leaned on your right foot for camera because you
know whatever, Like yeah, and like just that phrase, I
always like really loved of like that.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
That's the goal.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
That's the goal going into like every scene after action
is like being in flow and just like one moment
to the other rights like all these techniques and things
that we've talked about, is like that's the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
It doesn't always happen. My favorite thing though, it's just
but it is readable reeling. Yes, and then the day,
I mean the day goes by, you know, the days
on set are slow. But what happens when the camera's
rolling is like, it's my favorite when they say action
and they're like, okay, we're ready, it's going. It's happening.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
You're just playing and new things happen and little surprises happen.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Even if things are frustrating, even if it's yeah, fuck,
I didn't do the fucking thing, ah, you know whatever
it is, it's like it's still that moment between action
and cut is like a moment of peace.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, except when you audition, it's not as funny.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Except auditions. Fuck auditions, just kidding me. Give me this job.
I love this job. I would It's great writing. It's
really really funny. More better anyway. Thanks First, if you
stuck around until the end of this, Wow, Wow, you
(50:56):
are a true nerd. I feel like we should send
you a certificate. We welcome you into the club.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, yeah, man, if you're interested in this kind of
stuff where like, if you ever want to hear us
talk more about this, we will do another episode.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
But if you don't, you can let us on that too.
If you were like I tuned the fuck out when
you guys were talking about acting, we'll be like, fine, yeah,
you know what that you do bo, you do you
and we'll do us, which is why you like us anyway,
because you like her acting. So I don't know what
you're complaining about.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
All right, Let's see see you next next week, see
you next week.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Bye bye. More Better. Do you have something you'd like
to be more better at that you want us to
talk about in a future episode?
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Can you relate to our struggles or have you tried
one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
gmail dot com and include a voice note if you
want to be featured on the pod. Ooh, More Better
with Stephanie Melissa is a production from WV Sound and
iHeartMedia's Mikuura podcast network, hosted by by me, Steffie Beatriz,
and Melissa Fumero. More Better is produced by Isis Madrid.
And Sophie Spencer Zebos. Our executive producers are Wilmer Valderrama
(52:08):
and Leo Clem at w V Sound. This episode was
edited by Isis Madrid and engineered by Sean Tracy and
features original music by Madison Davenport and Helo boy. Our
cover art is by vincent Remy's and photography by David Avolos.
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. See you
next week's sucker Ups. Bye,
More, more Better, More, More Better, More. Welcome to More Better,
a podcast where we stop pretending to have it all
together and embrace the journey of becoming a little more
(00:22):
better every day, or at least trying to. That's Stephanie Beatrice,
and that's Melissa and Merrow. And this you know what
this is because you've turned it on. It's you clicked it. Yeah,
that's right, you clicked it on purpose that it's so
rude you clicked it. Welcome back to the to the
(00:49):
podcast where to absolutely non experts expertly guide you through
our non expert advice. We're really us here to talk
some ship. Yeah that's right ship. How you doing friend?
I'm okay, you know, just hanging in there. Just yeah,
(01:09):
hanged and haanging in there. More Better. So this week
on the pod, we're going to talk about, uh, we're
gonna talk about acting. It's about to get real nerdy,
real insidery, oral niche. Hopefully it's funny, but you know,
(01:29):
we can't promise you that. I'm just gonna come out
straight and say that we cannot promise that this will
be funny. We hope it is, but it might just
be super super nerdy and this is not all research
that we haven't done. We've done this research because we
went to school for the ship. Yeah, we did yeah,
degrees in this Yeah. Well, I mean technically I don't
(01:52):
have my degree. I don't think. But it didn't did
you not finish? Wait? Do I not know that I
fail a class? I failed a stage management class because
I can't management. Yes, we had to take everything, and
I think, like, I think I may have my degree now,
(02:14):
like I think that they, Oh did you get an honorary?
I might listen, I fancy. I mean, I went through
the whole program. I did everything. I the only thing
that I like, haven't I think? I like I it
just listen. Organization. Organization wasn't my forte. When I was
(02:35):
in college, I was a disaster on two legs. Like
it was a mess. And now now I'm a different story.
I could chase that class with flying colors, but at
the time with their eyes closed at the time, well,
I don't know about that, but at the time I
was a mess. I just couldn't. It was like you
had to keep a binder and you had to keep
like cues and like I kept thinking, like what am
(02:59):
I ever going to this I'm never going to do.
That's what I was going to say. The fact that
they made stage management a requirement was in that same
clearer degree. But yeah, I a class, I'll take a test,
but like the test was you that feels.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Like an elective, That feels like an election telling me,
I mean, I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I couldn't believe it. I was like, what, I failed
this class and they were like, you did. Anyway, that
that is not a failed class does not mean anything
in the end. I mean, it might mean that you
don't have no but it means less if you're like,
I'm not trying to be a dentist, I'm just playing pretend.
So probably fine.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I think I think you've done okay for yourself despite
that stage management.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I feel fine. I think you've done more than a fine.
But yes, What's what's really funny about this is that
this is the thing that we both love to do
so much. So this might go all over the place,
but I do I do want to touch on stuff
that we like about it. So we're going to talk about,
you know, our experience getting into it a little bit bit.
(04:06):
But if you've listened to the pod or like know
us at all, Like we've talked a little bit about
this already on the pod. We're going to talk about
stuff like different kinds of techniques that we like, our
actual training, if there's techniques that we don't like, performances
that we've seen, stuff like that, so and then like
(04:30):
how we prep. So if you're into that kind of stuff,
then yay. And if you're not, thank you so much
for joining us on the pod and we'll see next week. Okay, bye.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
You know what I love too that we're talking about this.
I don't know if you've noticed this, but uh, and
because I've always been curious why, and I want to
know what you think. Have you ever noticed that, you know,
they do these like actor round tables or like back
in the day when there used to be like the
actors studio, which I used to fu love, which it
(05:01):
happened less on inside the actor's studio actually because they
would get pretty in depth and nerdy there, but like
this general kind of cageeness that actors have about their
like specific technique or like how they prep or like
what the things they do. Have you noticed this that
like it's almost like and I don't know if it's
like gatekeeping or which I'm just like, there's so many
(05:25):
different approaches and techniques, Like just because you talk about
one doesn't mean that like there's going to be this
influx of actors that are all of a sudden amazing,
like you know, or is it just like a self
consciousness Like I don't want to sound real stupid or that. Yeah,
I mean, but I just feel like actors get real
cagey when they are talking about technique or their approach, right.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Is it just me? Well, Okay, I have some thoughts.
I yes, I agree. I think there's like a certain
amount of cageness that happens. I think acting is like uh,
I mean, it's when you break it down, it's like
playing pretend, like really really hard, you know, Like that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
It is also a hard thing to describe like exactly
what you do. Yeah, that's it's very difficult. And some
people have gifts in some ways and and others have
gifts in other ways. And you know that's why sometimes
you watch something and you're like, God, this person is
so believable in this thing. And sometimes you watch something
and you're like, oh God, this person's so famous and
they got this.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Role and like yeah, and I don't know, you know,
so yeah, I think there's and there's so many like
political things that go into casting, like you know, and
who you're, who your parents are, and you know how
old you are, how old you look like if you've
had a baby, or you know what ethnicity you look. Yeah,
(06:48):
it's so it's there's so many bits. So, like I
think a lot of actors talking about acting sometimes I
think it's because we do play pretend, but we take
it so seriously. We take it so seriously that when
we talk about it the way that we actually feel
(07:09):
about it, sometimes it sounds to people that don't really
understand what we're doing in that way, it sounds like,
what are you talking about? You're not like fucking oh.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, like get off your high hors, you're not all that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know, you're not saving lives, right, I'm not. You know,
you're not you're not doing any of that. So it
sounds it can sound like people are really full of themselves. Yeah,
that's true. So I think some actors just like avoid that,
probably because there are pr people are like, don't talk
about your process because people often sound fucking full of themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So maybe that yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, because I now,
as you said that, I like flash to like seeing
some actors that get like real into like talk and
they do kind of get this like tone in their void.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Well do that, you know, and then it's.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Just like, oh my god, shut up are yeah, and
like that's real, Like I'm sorry. In advance, if we
cut to five minutes from now, we're like, so I
just like need to put myself in this frame of
men and then I transcend and the work flows through
my body and onto the screen channel.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, yeah, cut to five minutes from now. I mean
that's a hard thing about talking about it because it
is such an ephemeral you know, it's like it's like
dust in the wind a little bit.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, you know, it's like dust and it's like this
mystical little thing that you're always chasing.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean, I don't know what's
the first what's the first performance that you ever saw
that you were like, holy shit, m holy fucking shit,
where you where you could delineate and my own I'm
gonna be really specific about this, okay, where you could
delineate as a kid, you were like, oh that since acting,
(09:01):
and they're really good at it I have not not
like yeah, okay, okay, I want to hear I have one.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Claire Dans my so called life. She was thirteen or
fourteen when she did that show.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
She was wow.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yes, And that was the thing when I found out
how old she was, because I think I was around
the same age, and she was so good on that show,
and then she did Little Women shortly after.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Oh my god, she's so good in Little Women.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And she's she's a teenager and Little Women, and there
was something about like like not even being aware that
like someone that young could do that, and then it
kind of sparking I think something in me of like
could like almost giving me permission to like, oh, you
can be.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Great at something at this age.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like maybe I just always quantified things as like you
need time and experience in training and and then at
a certain point you're good. But like this idea that
maybe you have a certain level of talent or and
you can train at any age and like be grat
at a thing. She was so phenomenal in that show
and in that movie that those two performances, and she
(10:17):
was so young. It was really her age and her
youth that like struck me. Yeah, of just like the
pot like that it was even possible, Like yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, it just that's cool. What about you? I mean
when you bring up Claar Danes, I remember seeing Romeo
and Juliet bos Lehrman's Romeo and Juliet at sixteen. In
Romeo and Juliet, I think she's so young family, but
the whole cast phenomenal. That's another one, so youthful, so phenomenal.
(10:50):
Like I think by that time I kind of understood
that acting. I was like, oh, this is a job
that you could do, right, but like when this is
slightly embarrassing, but like Tom Hanks and Forrest Gump, oh
my god, that was another one.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Tom Hank saw that in the theater those years where
it was like Forrest Gump Philadelphia, Like he just had
this one of these movies where he was like incredible
and so fucking different in every single role. Oh. I
remember going to one of my college auditions and like
they asked me about an actor that I looked up to,
(11:25):
and I was like, I was like nervous about how
it was going to be received because at that point
he was still like it was like when he was
doing those movies.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
But Prior to that, he was known as a comedy actor.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yea, And I loved all his comedies, Oh my god,
all his comedies Turner and Huge, Splash, like big, all
of those iconic and so I remember I was like
nervous to say, and I was.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Like, well, I don't know, uh, you know, this is
a good one. But like, I really love Tom Hanks.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I think he's amazing and like so different in all
his roles.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And then they kind of like Tom Hanks but like
but like his hit, I feel like it was like
early yeah, yeah, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, it.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Was like maybe just Philadelphia and Forrest Gump had come
out by that whomeint Yeah, I mean that was the
first time that I remember openly.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Weeping in a movie. Yes, and also at the same
time thinking, this is what I want to do for people.
I want to people. I want people to feel stuff. Yeah,
I want people to feel stuff and like be able
to feel stuff because of the thing that I do.
And I didn't exactly know what that meant, but I
(12:41):
think elements of that are still what I feel about acting.
It's like some people, you know, that's why we go
to the movies. I think why we go to the
movies where we watch TV is like we want to
have an experience. Yeah, and sometimes that experience is like
comfort and closeness, and sometimes that experience is joy and fun.
(13:04):
And sometimes that experience is like a repetition of some
like comforting feeling that we had as kids. And sometimes
that experience is like I'm going to go on a
fucking ride and I don't know what's gonna happen after,
and you know, and all of those things are like
they are the experience of diving into a story, and like,
(13:26):
that's what I want to do. I want to be
in things that feel so real that people were like, whoo,
yeah that was crazy. That ride was crazy. You know. Yeah,
that ride was so fun. I want to go back
on that ride. You know. That's yeah. That that movie.
Wo that movie. I mean I still remember. So we
were sitting in the middle of the theater and I
was like sobbing and my sister was like stop.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It also one of the best, one of the best
movie soundtracks of all time. Oh my god, so beautiful
all time. I used to play it NonStop.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
So that.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
But also the instrument yes, like the score of that
movie gorgeous, is gorgeous, gorgeous?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Bang on a song here? I still remember it. When
did you start? You Like, I think we've talked about
this before, so you can give a condensed version of this,
but like.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I guess I kind of technically started kind of young.
I started as a dancer, as I've said, going to
dance classes, and then I followed a dance teacher to
this dance in theater school where they had acting classes
and musical comedy classes. The musical comedy class was like
the popular one that a lot of the kids did,
and I think that was And so I was like,
(14:48):
when did I start with a musical comedy?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Like nine or ten? Thank god?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And I just fell in love with it because it
was it was singing and it was dancing, and it
was un was comedy. I didn't. I wasn't like super
plugged into the fact that it was comedy, you know.
I just liked getting laughs. And then it was you know,
and then it was like drama too, sometimes like depending
(15:13):
on but we would do basically musical scenes from different
Broadway shows and or movie musicals, and uh, and I
loved it. I was like obsessed. And then yeah, I
started taking more acting classes from there, and what about you.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It was junior high like public school, you know, theater
and more like a speech in debate class, and then
they did like plays every year and so like it
was starting to get my fee in that way and
like going, ooh, that's fun, you know, like yeah, turning
disappearing into somebody else. Yeah, it was My main thing
was like nobody knows it's me, you know, I get
(15:53):
to be somebody totally different, somebody that's like so much
more confident than me, yeah, or like yeah, or really
silly and just so so like expressions of self that
were just so different. But I did Little Women in
high school. I was Joe and that was a big
deal for me. It was such a big deal. It
(16:14):
was so fun and just thrilling, exciting, you know. I
had a little wig. It looked really good.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
My first play in high school was I'm trying to
remember which one, but it was a Neil Simon play.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Not Neil Simon in high school. Yeah, oh my god,
I can't remember which one it was. But it was good.
It was funny, dang, you know. But at that time,
I don't think I really understood anything about technique really.
I mean, we were kind of learning things in class,
(16:51):
but it was, like I said, it was public school.
It was more like just you just like throw yourself
at it and kind of see what sticks. So it
was really just on instinct. It was just like what
do I think instinctually that might be right, you know,
And it was mostly like learning lines and like figuring
out where you stand on the stage. It wasn't any
(17:12):
like I didn't have any like technical stuff yet. It
was all I was working solely on instincts, solely on
instinct until probably senior year of high school, and then
maybe I like read something, you know, like maybe we
did like some exercise or something. But I really didn't
have any like training training other than just trying stuff,
(17:36):
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, yeah, kind I mean I think there was I
got a basic introduction to technique through the dance and
theater school I attended, and then in high school the
drama club. The drama teacher was like I think, you know,
he used to be an actor and he went to
theater school, and so I remember having a basic knowledge
of like what's your action verb in the scene, and
(18:00):
what's your intention at the start of the scene.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And or what's your moment before.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Like these kind of I think overall kind of things
because when I got to college, I definitely was mostly
working off instinct, but I did have like a basic
vocabulary for like how you know the acting one oh one? Right,
like who's your character and what are you trying to
do in the scene?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
And like, yeah, I feel like I have memories of.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
One of my teachers, you know, if they would stop
a scene being like what are you trying to do?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
What are you? What are you doing? Oh? I didn't
have that until college.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, we didn't, and then in college it got like
much more specific, but like yeah, like knowing that, oh
I should I should have a verb when I go
into a scene like in my mind and my god,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I wish I had, you know, I wish I had
right now, I wish I had my like notebook from
I had this teacher in college, Rob Rasnowski. He was phenomenal, phenomenal,
and he had us. He had a class that was
like acting one oh one. Basically it was like acting
one on one, one on two, I think for the semesters,
and it was like how to break down a scene?
(19:11):
Who are you in the scene? What do you want
from the other person in the scene? How what is
the verb?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Where what you know? It was the first time that
I ever ever was taught like you can look at
the script and like look at everything anybody says about
your character. You can look at this script and see
like what the actions are around your care what your
character's doing, Like what do people say about your character?
What do people not say about your character? Where is
(19:39):
your character when different scenes are taking place? Like it
was all about like how to take like mine the
actual written words for what all thea that the script gives. Yes, Yeah,
it was the first time that I ever was like
this is the map. This is the map, and then
you can build on the map. But this is the
map for the thing, right. It was like so exciting
(20:01):
to learn that. I still remember doing scenes from that
clot because first we'd break it down and we would
like highlight the scripts and like show you know, show
different you know, ten highlighters and you're highlighting like what
the different things are, and like showing you a little
you know, key to your map and like this is
your action words and these are the these are things
(20:22):
other people say about you, and these are things you
say about yourself and this is what you want, this
is what you're hiding, and blah blah blah. And then
he had us team up with someone in the class
and do the scene. Like he assigned us all different characters,
and then we would do the scenes with another person
who had been assigned the other character in the scene.
And it was like one of the first times I
remember things like clicking for me in a way that
(20:44):
wasn't about necessarily, like, ooh, this person is just like me.
This character that I'm playing, I understand completely. It's like oheah,
I learned more about the character and now I can
play them in a way that feels real to me
in the scenes. Yes, Rob Oh, great teacher. Great teacher.
Teacher Rob. He was also one of the first teachers
(21:05):
that was like, you got to bring yourself to the
things that you do. Like h I would riff and
do my mom's very thick accent, her Bolivian accent. I
would riff and do it all the time in class.
And then he made me audition for something hot Old Baltimore.
He made me audition for it and do the accent
for the character. He was like, no, I want you
(21:26):
to read the scenes of the accent. I was like, uh,
I don't think so, and he was like, I want
you to read the scenes of the accent. And it
was like the whole the whole scene like blossom. Yeah,
and the character blossomed. And that was one of my
first roles in college, was hot Old Baltimore. Was like
it just like burst out of me. It was so fun.
Oh oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, let's talk about exercises that acting teachers have made
us too.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Hey, I hate it so much. This is the thing
that I really struggle with. This because we've talked about
this on the pod. I don't I struggle with like
stupid shit, you know. And some days I'm just like,
I don't know how walking around in the room like
a cat is gonna serve what we're doing here. I
don't understand how, And maybe it is just to shake
(22:23):
you out of your like stupid, like yeah, stupid. You know.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I had an acting teacher that I was not very
fond of once in college, and he had to do
the same warm up every day, which was like walk
around in a circle and then he would say like.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's really cold.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's cold, and like, so everyone be like fucking shivering
and like doing all this stuff. Then you'd be like,
it's really hot, it's really hot. Someone's following you. You
feel like someone's following you. And every I thought that
exercise was such a fucking bullshit. I was like, I
don't get the point of this. You've never explained what
the point of this is. This isn't a warm up.
Everyone's just indicatingating behavior for like indicating what a dirty
(23:05):
acting it is such a dirty word.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Anytime I get super triggered anytime a director has like
given me a note like you're indicating for those of
you who are maybe listening to this and don't do
what we do, And you're like, what the fuck are
they talking about? Uh? Indicating means like basically that somebody
doesn't believe you, Like it's basically what it is.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And you're not believable that you're just like making a
show of doing the action.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Right, So like if you're supposed to be cold in
the scene or just like shivering and doing all this stuff,
but like it's not real, like it's you know, itis
is fake. Yes, And yeah, so I used to just
like walk in the circle and not do anything it's
so funny.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Oh my god, would you ever get called out? No, no, no,
because paying attention anyway, I or I know. I think
it was to give him some credit.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I think it was he was coming from a place
of like, it's your interpretation, so like, yeah, I would
maybe like rub my arm if it was like.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Film acting a little bit, you're just yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Was playing everything super subtle. But I just really hated it.
But going back to one that you brought up, I
will push back. I have a hot take on animal
work because I do like it, and I do think
it's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I think, yes, it.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Breaks because you feel fucking stupid when you're doing it.
Like when a teacher would ask you to like walk
across the room. We used to play a game where, uh,
we would have to choose an animal. We'd walk across
the room and the class would have to guess what
animal we were fuck or.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
But we would have to do the animal as a character.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So for example, I think I chose like turtle ones
and I like tried to be this like old lady
that just would like stretch her neck out and like
see if it was safe and then like kind of
like go back in and like walk around. But I
what I found with those exercises was you can discover
(25:06):
like physicalities for character and interesting ways.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, that's real, that's really real. I mean, none of
this stuff is garbage. It's just sometimes, but it's also
like garbage when you're nineteen and you're like, I'm an actor,
what is this trap? A hun And the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Is is like you have to do all those exercises
to essentially, like I think, build your actor toolbox, right,
because this is not like a one size fits all
type of thing.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
There's techniques and things that work for some people that
do not fucking work for others.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, and you know, so it's it's like something you
kind of have to go through and you feel super
uncomfortable and you hate most of it. Most of it
feels like fucking bullshit and you hate it. And then
once in a while there'll be one that just like
unlocks something and you you file it away and your
little actor box and you're like, I'm gonna use that
(26:01):
one day. One day that's gonna come in handy, and
then it does. And like, I think it's just about
building the tools because the thing I think that's for
me really challenging about our day, about our job is
like every day is so different, and sometimes you have
personal shit going on or your mind is somewhere else,
and like when you arrive on set, like you have
(26:23):
to do that job, you have to live in that character's.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, brain and body.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, And sometimes it's not enough to just like imagine
yourself conjure yourself there right like and I think that's
where like the craft or the technique comes in, because
there's days where I'm just like, oh, I need help
right now, and I will find myself like truly going
(26:51):
back to the basics, it's like I'm super unfocused or
I'm dealing with this personal shit, but I gotta do this.
So like what is my intention in this scene? It
is my moment before, Like what can I do to
get myself like into this headspace?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah? Yeah. One of the things I liked about college
for me was that there wasn't one specific technique that
we studied, and it was just that there were a
bunch of different ones that we worked through, and that
was helpful to me. It has become helpful to me
in my professional life, and it was helpful to me
(27:28):
in college because not some things like don't always work,
meaning like something's just don't like you're saying sometimes that
day that fucking thing is not your sense memory moment,
It just isn't. She's not she's not coming that there.
Stay there, Try something else, like you gotta just like
(27:48):
try something else, right. And the more I feel the
more that you know about this stuff, the more that
you're trying stuff more like I'm walking like a bug
in turtle or whatever, more stuff you discover, you know.
And sometimes I like to randomly watch people's audition.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Tapes like on YouTube and stuff, because I find, like
I did it today because it was like.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
What is what what are they doing? You know, like
how are they doing this? And what I find a
lot is that more than likely their performance that they
give in the film is actually the performance that they
gave in the audition. Yeah, you know, because I just
fucking rite for it. They were just right for it,
and they were ready. They were ready, They had all
(28:35):
their stuff memorized, and they knew the take that they
were going to do, and they trusted that what their
work was, and they were just it was just you know,
like you could be really right for something. Now I'm
going on a tangent, but like you could be really
right for something and like not be ready for it
and not have your technique down and not be memorized
and not be not be awake and alive in the scene,
(29:00):
and like maybe you're really really right for it, but like, oh,
like you know. One of the things I think that
I've learned a lot in the past few years is like,
you know, when you're in college, Well, when I was
in college, I kind of thought, oh, the director's supposed
to like help you, guide you and like right for
(29:20):
this performance out of you. And yeah, it's just not
really that way. The director has so many things going on,
and yes, sometimes the director's job is to give you
a key and unlock something with you, but they've also
got a jillion bajillion other things going on, and so
(29:41):
really what they need is for you as an actor
to be ready from the get from the accition, basically
like to be that's what they see.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, you're just an instrument and a giant orchestra that
they're conducting.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Right, and so like you need to know how to
play your instrument. You really need to be like first chair.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's so true. They're there to like, yes, I think
guide you. I think maybe elevate, like you said, unlock something.
But like they're they're not gonna Your performance is up
to you.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, man, it really is.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I really the times that i've directed, I've really loved
watching all the auditions and I felt like I learned,
you know, you hear it so much and everyone says it, like,
but if you're an actor, if any chance you could
get to watch people's auditions is really valuable because what
you mostly see is most of the people you see
could do it, and they'd be great. You know, in
(30:37):
some instances they'd be fine, but it would be good,
like you you know, you know, it wouldn't ruin the scene,
It wouldn't ruin the episode. But and most of the
time the person it goes to either just made a
strong choice that works in their audition that like set
them apart from everyone else, because there's like, you read
a scene, and if you have ten people, pretty much
(31:01):
all ten are going to more or less read that
scene the same way. And then sometimes there's gonna be
one or two people that just put an extra specific
thing on it, or they put a flare on it,
or they just make a big choice in one section,
and then that kind of sets them apart. And then
the other thing that no one can fucking explain or
control is like an essence thing, like they just feel
(31:24):
like that character, Like you can't even put your finger
on it. They just you can picture them in wardrobe,
and you can picture them in the scene and it's
like just a vibe that they have.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Oh my god, that makes my stomach so.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Frustrating, because you want a stomach I know, I know,
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
God, cause I have to put some shape and I'm
just like, oh.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
No, So how do you prep for an audition?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Let's talk about that. I study a lot. I read
the script. I read the script because I think a
lot of times people don't. Yes, I remember reading this
book a long time ago. I don't know if I
still have it. It's called Talent is Overrated. But one
of the things that they talk about in that book
is that, like, you know, there's a lot of talented people,
(32:17):
but there's not a lot of people that will want
to put in the work. So just by putting in
the work, you separate yourself from the other talented people, right,
And so like I'm going to memorize the motherfucking living
daylights out of that audition. Those sides, like, I'm going
to have them memorize. I've run them already probably ten
(32:39):
times each yeah, with my sister, and I'm going to
memorize them more after this recording. M Yeah, I need
to be fully memorized for auditions.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I am.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I try to be like as much off the page
as I can be, because I think when I look
at people's auditions, like when I look at people that
book the job, a lot of times they're like up
and they're acting with the reader, or they're acting with
their significant other whoever they're they're reading with, or just
like with him with them, you know, as opposed to
(33:12):
like down and trying to find stuff. Not to say
that I don't, but I really really want to be
completely off book. But it's hard, Like I mean thinking
about like making big choices and being like sometimes you're
just not right for the thing. I'm like, I don't know,
I know if I'm gonna be right, but I mean
like I could play it like, but I might not
(33:34):
be right for it. So like sometimes you just have
to sort.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Of like like do it anyway, even though you feel
like sick to your stomach about it, but also there's
also that there's always a possibility that yes, maybe on
the page you're like, I don't know if I'm right
for this, but then they see you and they see
something new and different and they're like, oh, maybe this
character isn't what we originally thought. This is so much
more interesting Stephanie, my mattress is so much more interesting
(34:02):
in this.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Role, and now we kind of want Tot's like, let's hope,
let's pray, and so let's pray and hope.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I once did a like an alumni panel NYU and
it was all actors and this one actor, Noah Weisberg.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
What up?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Noah very talented actor, works all the time, it's Broadway
and TV, and he had the best freaking gems at
this panel, and he talked about auditioning and he completely
like reframed it for me that because at that time
I was like working but still struggling auditioning all the time,
(34:42):
mostly getting rejected. And he was like, my audition is
I get to go to work that day, I get
to do this thing that I love to do for
twenty minutes or an hour or.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Whatever it is. If it's on tape, it's in a
room wherever it is.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
I get to go to work, and he's like, and
I don't look at it as an audition. I just
look at it is like I get to go to
work today. Today, I get to go to work.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And that's great advice. But I cannot separate. I can't separate. Also,
I am not getting paid. I mean, right, it's so
hard to separate. I get to do this fun scene
and also like, but I also want I want to
(35:24):
do this scene again. I want to do it on
film with actors that I like and enjoy their work,
and I want to play with the other person. Yeah,
like doing a scene by yourself at home, or like
even with a reader, even if they're really good, it's
just not the same as like doing it with somebody
who's work you admire or like or you don't know
(35:48):
and you're learning from. It's just like it's it's so
electric when it's like really happening, as opposed to like
I'm auditioning for something, you know, It's like one is
just so different than the other. Even so the core
of the thing still has to be the same, which
is like your ability to conjure, conjure the realness the
(36:08):
realness of the thing more really quick, Let's talk about
like speaking of conjuring. Let's talk about conjuring. Let's talk
about like, there's a bunch of techniques of acting. I
struggle with some of them. I don't love some of them.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Let's talk about the ones that I studied in school
were the big The big ones are like, Okay, Stanislavski
UH method acting, which just Strasburg stella Adler, which was
another Uh Santislavski student.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
She and Strasburg were students of Santaslavski Meisner Meisner, Meisterisner Meisner. Now,
there's a lot of things about Meisner that are great.
There's some things that are I love Uda Hagen, I
will say I do love Uda Hagen's book, Yes, and
(37:12):
particularly when I was a younger actor, because I think,
especially as a younger actor, I got super into the
feeling of like I don't know how to apply these techniques.
And Hogen udah Hagen is very very about like substitution.
It's like substitution of real life experience.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
To me, it's a it's a clearer it's a clearer
definition of substitution than Strasburg's sort of approach to substitution
to me, was always almost like self indulgent, Like I
felt like.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So a n YU.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
All these studios were like you when you become a
drama major, you audition, you get into NYU, they place
you in a studio. And so there's a Strasburg Studio,
the Adler Studio, the Meisner Studio, the Atlantic Theater Company Studio,
and blah blah blahlah lah. I was in the musical
Theater one. So I got like a little sprinkling of
everything and I kind of noticed sorry little bit of
(38:11):
shade to the Strasburg.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Studio.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I felt like when I would watch the Strasburg actors
act in some things that they were all like very
like internal, like in their own world as opposed to
like really reacting and listening off of another actor.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Because I and then when I like learned more about
the technique, I was like, oh, that makes sense, Like
it's so based in substitution, but from this like really
kind of internal place inside place where I felt like
Udah Haugen's approach to substitution was more I don't know,
it was more active.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
It was more like.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Taking the event or taking the feeling that you're substituting
and placing it in but still like create using instinct
and imagine work and being in the scene.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. Getting I'm like, sup,
just got super nerdy. No. No, I'm curious about like
whether those Stosberg students, like whether if you put a
camera on them, would it still feel sort of self
indulgent and you know, like if you cut them into
a film, like if they edited their performance, would it
(39:22):
feel that way or would it look really really real
because they're really like like using sense, memory and going
through something. I don't know, I don't know the answer
to that, but like I'm curious about that because I've
certainly seen I mean, I've seen a lot of shows
on Broadway and off, but I've seen actors that are
film actors on Broadway that are phenomenal and commanding of
(39:47):
an audience and like incredible and like, you know, just electric.
And then I've seen film actors who are you know,
really really good on television in television and film, and
then they're on stage and I'm like, well, I'm glad
I'm sitting in the fourth row because like if I
was in the back of the house, I couldn't see
(40:08):
any of what you were feeling. And it's a beautiful performance,
but it's not a stage. It's so small. Yeah, right,
So like those two things are really really different things,
really different things. And then you see the opposite too.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
You see actors that are brilliant in theater, brilliant on Broadway,
and then you put them on camera film everything is
just too big too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, it's it's is my constant feeling. But because the
balance of like sometimes I'm not sure what the tone
of the thing is that I'm auditioning for, you know,
because like I read it in one tone, but maybe
it's not that tone, and then I like make it
take a big swing, and I'm like, well, I don't know,
you know, like, yeah, I don't know if it's that
(40:50):
or was I in the right play? Was I in
the right play? Or was I was I in the
theater next door. That's a really hard one. I mean,
I think for me as a younger actor or substitution,
which you know, to give you like not a professional no.
Our interpretation is like you use your personal experiences to
(41:14):
help you create a reaction to what's happening to the character.
So like, if you have never lived through somebody dying
and your scene is about someone dying, right, Like, you
use something that's close, like maybe you had a pet die,
or maybe you like lost someone that was really close
to you, or maybe you have a fear of dying,
(41:35):
and like you use that and put it into the
scene and to like help you emotionally get to the
place where you are locked a lot of emotion. But
then you're also saying the lines that are in the scene,
right and like sometimes and still today, I'll use it
in a pinch, but I rarely use it anymore because
it's too much for me sometimes, Does that make sense? Like, well,
(41:58):
it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
I I my first year acting teacher was like my
mentor at Doug Mauston. He was incredible and he when
he was teaching us substitution, I remember him saying, you
can't use anything that you haven't healed from because it
will fuck with your mind.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
That's such a big, big, big, big great piece of advice.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yes, And he was like, if you think of your
memories as and your painful memories as like scabs or scars, right, Like,
don't use it while it's a scab, because then you're
just ripping that scab open every time. He was like,
you have to wait till it's it's a scar and
then you can go back and access it.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
That's really interesting if.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
That works for you, which that you know, Yeah, I've
always struggled with substitution, but he was very adamant about
not using things that are more raw unless unless well
there was a stipulation of like, if it's helping you process,
there it is.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
There it is if it's helping you.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Work through sar things, Yeah, as long as that it's
that approach. But if you're just going back to a
really painful thing and reliving it over and over again, yeah, yeah.
He was like, your work will eventually suffer, but more importantly,
you'll suffer as a human being.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
You'll sufferer, and like that's one of the things that's
most important about using substitution is not being really careful
with it, because it is it is like giving of yourself.
And I would say, I would say, like, if you
use something too much, you can deaden yourself, Like the
(43:36):
sharpness of that thing becomes dull, and the your ability
to use it, it's like you can still cut with
a dull knife. But it can it's like you're digging
at something like really gnarly, you know. Yeah. I mean
I have used substitution before in acting where it's like
(43:58):
I will just this make sense or not, but like
I won't like dig into it. I'll just like touch it,
you know, like just like a little touch of it,
and then like I touch it, I burn. Like I
you don't even burn my finger. I just like feel
the heat of it and then move away and like
do the scene. Yeah, and like take the take the
energy of the of the of the heat and go
(44:20):
into the scene. You don't have to put your whole
fucking hand on the fire, right, Like, you just take
a little bit of it and move yourself through into
the scene. I don't. I don't think that's suffering hard,
hard hard for the thing because I've done it.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
I've done that already in my youth, and I don't
want to do it again.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I also don't. I'm not a method actor. I think
a lot of people don't really understand method.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I feel like it's a term that's been tossed around
in a very uh sloppy way in the last couple decades.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, it's just a type technique.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It doesn't mean like you know when they taught And
it's funny to me when they talk about like method
actors that are in character all day on set, at
least the way I was taught, like these different techniques
that fall under the method umbrella.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
That's not method. Like the method is that.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You can click into your character and then drop it
when you need to drop it like that that was
always taught to me, is like the whole point it wasn't.
I don't know where. At some point it became.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Like you have to do this all the time. You
have to do this.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
All the time, and like live in the thing, like
and if you're going to be drunk in a scene,
actually be drunk.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Like that's not method like that you you're no, Like
that's the opposite. I will say the thing that I'm
talking the thing that I was talking about that sort
of like touching something is something that Strasburg talked about
a lot, which is like emotional recall distinctive moments an
actor has had in their real life and repurposing those
(45:58):
moments to convey a character convincingly on stage. So like
that to me is like part of what's tricky about Strasbourg,
and like all of this stuff is like acting is
a lot of it is in your brain, psychological stuff
that then you convey through your body and mouth and
the way your face looks or whatever you indicate like
(46:20):
what you're feeling, right, But yeah, it starts in your brain.
So like different people's brains work different ways, which is
why there are all these techniques, because not one is
gonna work for everyone.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
No more.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Before we wrap this up, because we've been talking about
this for the fucking ever. One of my favorite books
is this book that I read when I was younger,
called The Actor and the Target by Declan Donellan, who's
a theater director.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Oh yes, it's been sitting on my nightstand for months.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Specific technique. I really enjoyed this book as a young actor,
and like I've gone back to it quite a bit
because Donald talks about the target, which is a specific,
active focal point outside of the actor that directs their
performance and helps them overcome common acting anxieties like feeling
(47:23):
lost or feeling unsure about what to do. It is
like a practical it's basically a practical guide. But what
he says essentially is like you want something in this scene,
like you want something, so not only just like focus
on what you want, but like the thing that you
want is constantly changing, like you desire you know, maybe
(47:47):
it's someone, but like your desire for them is like
sometimes you're what you're desiring is like, well, I need
you to listen to me right now, like, oh, now
I need you to like calm down, Okay. Now I
need you to like sit in this chair so that
I can tell you what I need. Now I need
you to look at me. Now I need you to
you know, like now I need the room to be quiet.
Now I need like the space to like and now
(48:09):
I need to not be sweating. Oh my god. You
know it's like the thing, the thing that you need
is constantly shifting and changing and is like moving. The
target is moving, so like you have to be moving
also not like physically moving, but like your brain has
to be like going, like how do I continue to
get the thing that I want? I love that it's
really sounds it sounds a little bit too to me.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Of Like, there was this book that David was reading
once about it was actually about professional athletes. Oh and
they talk about the flow being in flow and when
you're like snowboarders, for example, we'll talk about being in
flow and they go down and every trick is just
like flowing out of them and they're moving seamlessly from
(48:51):
when the target keeps moving, but they're with it the
whole time, and I think it does you know. The
goal is always to feel that in a scene, and when
it really happens, it's like this incredible feeling where you're
just yeah, I think your eye is on that target
and you're following the target as it moves, but you're
and you're with your partner and you're you're both in
(49:13):
flow together and moments are happening and the scene just
clicks and it's you know, and when it finishes, you're
just like, holy shit, I was like really living in it.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, from start to finish.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
You know, there was no even even if there's technical
things that happen where you have to like it, it didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
It didn't matter like part of it. It was part
of it.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
You leaned on your right foot for camera because you
know whatever, Like yeah, and like just that phrase, I
always like really loved of like that.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
That's the goal.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
That's the goal going into like every scene after action
is like being in flow and just like one moment
to the other rights like all these techniques and things
that we've talked about, is like that's the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
It doesn't always happen. My favorite thing though, it's just
but it is readable reeling. Yes, and then the day,
I mean the day goes by, you know, the days
on set are slow. But what happens when the camera's
rolling is like, it's my favorite when they say action
and they're like, okay, we're ready, it's going. It's happening.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
You're just playing and new things happen and little surprises happen.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Even if things are frustrating, even if it's yeah, fuck,
I didn't do the fucking thing, ah, you know whatever
it is, it's like it's still that moment between action
and cut is like a moment of peace.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, except when you audition, it's not as funny.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Except auditions. Fuck auditions, just kidding me. Give me this job.
I love this job. I would It's great writing. It's
really really funny. More better anyway. Thanks First, if you
stuck around until the end of this, Wow, Wow, you
(50:56):
are a true nerd. I feel like we should send
you a certificate. We welcome you into the club.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, yeah, man, if you're interested in this kind of
stuff where like, if you ever want to hear us
talk more about this, we will do another episode.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
But if you don't, you can let us on that too.
If you were like I tuned the fuck out when
you guys were talking about acting, we'll be like, fine, yeah,
you know what that you do bo, you do you
and we'll do us, which is why you like us anyway,
because you like her acting. So I don't know what
you're complaining about.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
All right, Let's see see you next next week, see
you next week.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Bye bye. More Better. Do you have something you'd like
to be more better at that you want us to
talk about in a future episode?
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Can you relate to our struggles or have you tried
one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
gmail dot com and include a voice note if you
want to be featured on the pod. Ooh, More Better
with Stephanie Melissa is a production from WV Sound and
iHeartMedia's Mikuura podcast network, hosted by by me, Steffie Beatriz,
and Melissa Fumero. More Better is produced by Isis Madrid.
And Sophie Spencer Zebos. Our executive producers are Wilmer Valderrama
(52:08):
and Leo Clem at w V Sound. This episode was
edited by Isis Madrid and engineered by Sean Tracy and
features original music by Madison Davenport and Helo boy. Our
cover art is by vincent Remy's and photography by David Avolos.
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. See you
next week's sucker Ups. Bye,
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Beatriz
Melissa Fumero
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