July 19, 2022 • 33 mins
Darilyn welcomes Samantha Williams to this week's episode of Morenita. Talent beyond compare and wise beyond her years, Samantha shares with Darilyn the identity struggles she faced as an Afro-Latina growing up and in the industry. It gets real on the show as they discuss personal struggles and how they overcame them. ¡Te invitamos!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh yeah, me hint that. I just want to give
you a heads up. The program you are about to
hear may have some explicit language, it may not. It
also depends on where the vibes and the spirit leads us.
Hope you enjoy. Welcome to Moranita, a deep dive into
the Latin X experience. With Monita, we want to create
(00:23):
a community and a shared space with you while sharing
knowledge and inspiration. This show is about celebrating our culture
with guests who exemplify the best of us. I'm Darrylene
Gastillo Ethane Vito. You guys, I think I just found
my sister's soulmate. I recently had the pleasure of meeting
(00:46):
Samantha Williams, a fellow Afro Latina performer, while I was
traveling in Chicago, and I instantly felt the vibes and
I said, you must be a guest on Monita. That's
how these things happen, sintime, y'all. If we vibe, we vibe.
Sam graciously accepted, and you are about to hear a
lot of joy, a lot of realness, and a lot
(01:09):
of Afro Latina love. Sam has graced the Broadway stage
and shows like Dear Evan Hanson and Caroline or Change,
and is currently starring in a musical called Life After
in Chicago at the Goodman Theater. Go support the arts
if you're in the che Town area. There is so
much good theater happening right now in Chicago. It's lit
(01:31):
me hint that there's a lot to unpack on this one.
Sam is a Puerto Rican Dominican who grew up in McCallen, Texas.
You heard that right. She tells us about her experience
growing up as an Afro Latina in the South and
how that really created some identity struggles. We even go
deeper and discussed the black versus Latino stigma. We both
grew up hearing similar comments about our blackness that challenge
(01:54):
our identity, comments like your Dominican not black, or you're
black not Latino. Sam and I shared these moments of
confusion together and how we grew from them. We share
how Latina people come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and genders.
One is not greater than the other, and one does
not negate our blackness nor our Latinia. I even get
(02:15):
extra real on this topic as I share a very
personal moment that is connected. I gotta say listening to Sam,
I learned so much from her. Even in expressing some
of my struggles, she gives me advice and a word
on how to deal with identity issues and things like
imposter syndrome. She is wise beyond her years and I'm
(02:36):
so lucky to have shared this space with her, and
I hope you feel lucky to samee Vito, Sam, welcome
to Anita. Happy here. So I have to admit UM
just for the listeners so they understand the vibes. I
(02:59):
met Sam over the weekend UM. I went to Chicago
to see a friend of mine, one of my best friends,
Tyler Hardwick. He's been on the show before UM perform
in Stepan Wolf in an amazing show called Choir Boy.
And Sam was walking through the building and I'm like,
I know this girl's face because I didn't tell Sam
(03:19):
this when I first met her, but I'm like, I'm
pretty sure she's Dominican. I think she's Dominican. And Sam,
I have to be very honest with you, Like when
I started like in theater and whatnot, like I was
like the only Dominican girl. It was like me and
like maybe another girl that was it. So when other
(03:41):
Afro Latina's were coming into the room, I was like, Okay, yeah,
so I always feel like you kind of like you're
drawn to that, and I was drawn to that with
you and me and another friend were at the pool
and I was like, oh my god, I think that's
that girl, Sammy. I think I've seen her in fun Instagram.
I think she's Latina. Is that the person I'm thinking of?
(04:03):
And then like, while you were sitting there on your
computer at the pool, I was like instagramming. I was like, Yeah,
that's her. I love that. So I'm obsessed because I'm
I mean, first off, like just sickly talented. So I
was happy to like get to meet you in person finally,
and I was like, I have to have you on
(04:23):
the show because I just feel like there's so much
that I want to know about you and our listeners
I'm sure as well. Um. As I mentioned in in
the intro, sam has been on Broadway. She is now
in Chicago doing an amazing show that we'll get to
talk about soon. Um. When I first met you was
(04:45):
you were like, I'm from Texas, and I was like,
at from Texas, Okay, I need to know about this
and how that world was like for you before we
get into like all the amazing things that you do.
I'm so curious what you're experience was being in Afro
Latina and not being Mexicana in Texas. Yes, not being
(05:05):
Mexicana in Texas. You put it perfectly. It was Oh
my god, wait is that a musical that we're writing?
Not being in Texas? Put it in your nose tap
right now so we don't forget. Yeah, tell us about that. Um, yeah,
I mean it was rough. My mom is from the Bronx,
(05:27):
Bodica from the Bronx. My dad is straight from d
R and they met in New York. And then when
I was like six months old, my dad got a
job in Texas, and like any immigrant, he followed the opportunities.
We landed in McAllen, Texas, which is like five minutes
(05:49):
away from Mexico. But there was actually like kind of
a good like Dominican Cuban community there. Randomly, Dominicans be
everywhere everywhere everywhere, Like half the doctors there were Dominican,
and like my dad had gone to med school with
some of them, and that's how he kind of landed
there um So, I was there for like until I
(06:12):
was like eight, but then we moved to Lufkin, Texas.
And in Lufkin, Texas, that's East Texas, far away from Mexico,
and it was just you were either white, you were black,
or you were Mexican. But usually you were either white
or you were black. So I just kind of was
like in the middle of it all and I didn't
(06:33):
really know where I fit in. Um So, I had
a lot of identity issues growing up then. Been also
like there's a part of like being Dominican when you're
younger and like being like, well, I'm not black, I'm Dominican,
you know what I mean. So I had to really
come to terms with my blackness. And now I love
it obviously, but you know, it was a long journey.
(06:54):
Um but now we're here. Yeah, I mean high soul
sister in my entire life because I mean people wouldn't know.
But like in New York, I was born in the Bronx,
I was we left that when I was five from
the city. Um and I was technically raised in Rockland County,
(07:15):
where it's really an hour away from the city, but
where I went to school, you were either white, black
or Mexican. They didn't know what Dominican was. They were like, what,
Darylyn's kind of black, but she's not really black because
she speaks Spanish and like her hair is kind of curly.
And then I wasn't white enough for my white friends,
right because all of that. And then of course the
Mexicanos were like, hey, Latin not where literally literally they
(07:36):
were harsh and I would try to speak, I would
like speak Spanish. I would be like no, like and
they were like, they're still not cutting eggs. So I
completely feel you on that. Let's rewind and talk about
this black Dominican thing, because child, I never read like comments.
(07:57):
I remember our first episode here on what I Need
that was with him out of Nega you can't get
any more Dominican and black, so um, and I remember,
I guess because it like our my first episode, I
read a comment and it was like, oh, I don't
know why this mon Aneta show is out here saying
like we're black, We're not black, this and that, and
(08:19):
this is why I'm doing this show. This is why
I'm doing this podcast to educate you and understanding that
you can be black and Latine. You can be white
and Latina. You can be all these things and be
different colors in different shades, and that's what we talk
about here. So let's talk about this black Dominican thing
because it really be irking me. Now, is that something
(08:40):
for you that happened in your family, like in your home,
because we could be real about that too, because for me,
not it didn't happen in my home specifically, but it
happened in my cousin's home, to my aunts and uncles
sometimes my grandmother, my grandparents homes. She's crazy And we
(09:02):
love you, guys, we love so much, but I'm curious
for you, like where was that? Where was that mindset? Like?
Where was that? Where was that readed for you? When
did that start? Yeah? Okay, So I was really lucky
in that my dad, who's Dominican, understood his blackness was
black af made it very clear that we were black, um,
(09:25):
but his family was not always you know, they were
not always on game with that, and like there was
also like hella colorism that went on and it was
just like a whole thing. But for me, it was
more of like uh like especially having like my mom
(09:46):
was Bodigua and like lighter skinned and had like long hair. Um.
I always wanted to be more like her. And from
what I saw in my family, in my extended family,
was that lighter people were always kind of like pushed
to this pedestal, you know. Not I don't think it
(10:06):
was conscious. It's just the way they were raised back then,
you know, That's just how it was. And so in
my life, I was like, well, I don't want to
be considered black because I'm not I'm Latina. I'm not
you know, I don't. That's not for me, Like I'm
I'm above that yetada, Yeah, I didn't know. Um. And
I also felt like whenever I corrected people and being like, oh,
(10:28):
I'm not black, I'm I'm Hispanic, they'd be like, oh, okay, cool,
you can come, you know what I mean, like like that,
especially with white people. So like it took me a
long time to come to terms with my blackness. But
also I will say that like sometimes as an after
Latina with like curly hair and like brown skin, sometimes
(10:53):
saying you're black to other black people, they're not with that.
So how do I go through life as an obviously
black person without spending all my time trying to convince
people of my blackness, which no other fucking black people
have to do. You just are you know you are?
You are black and it should be that simple. But
(11:15):
because I think of the Eurocentric standard and colonization that's
in literally every single culture, we do everything through a
white lens where we have to prove even to our
own people that we are black enough. Um. So yeah,
that's what I that's kind of my journey with that. Okay,
(11:36):
we speak speak thirty five am Okay, come on. So
the one thing that I'm so fascinated for you because
I don't know if we've had different experiences. I've spoken
to a couple of other Afro Latino friends, then I'm
sure we have in common. Like actually Rossa and a
couple other amazing UM performers. What is that experience for
(12:00):
you in theater because I have I have a very
traumatic experience with the being accepted within the black community. Yeah,
I mean too, Okay, I'm curious. Um. I mean also
(12:31):
like you have a sister for life. I'm here any time.
I'm so happy because I need I need this because
it's so hard to talk about it with people that
don't really get it. But for you, like how are
you navigating that? And also if just for the listeners
to grasp what have you been through that? And you
don't have to like go into detail or shore names
(12:51):
or whatever you're comfortable with, but like, what have you
been through where it's been a challenge for you and
the industry not only in life but within the industry.
So what is that for you and how are you
processing that? So for me, all this kind of started
when I went to college. I went to Pace University,
and by the time I was in college, by the
time I went to high school, I had moved to Houston,
(13:13):
which was a bigger city. I came to terms with
my blackness, and I was kind of like in it,
you know, and like accepting myself. So by the time
I came to New York, I was eighteen. Um, we
did a workshop reading of Carolina Change and I got
Caroline and that within itself was like a whole deal
(13:37):
to some of the black kids, because they were like, well,
you're not really black, so why should you be playing this,
Like how are you going to be able to? And
I was literally like, are you kidding me? Like I
I don't even know, Like I don't even know how
to defend myself. I just you know, so, I I
(13:58):
went through like a few years of college feeling like
I had to prove myself, but also feeling that I
didn't really fit in because like I wasn't raised in
an African American household. I was raising a Dominican Puerto
Rican household where we listened to like Mark Anthony and
Wandos Guerra every morning on Sundays. But that doesn't mean
my blackness is any less, you know. It's just a
(14:20):
kind of different subgenre of black. And I think that
because other people aren't necessarily always educated on what that is,
they assumed that it is not enough. And I always
felt like I was never enough for like a lot
of black people because they didn't really understand, you know. Um.
(14:44):
And then I finally found my community. I went to
a party in Brooklyn and I'll never forget this, and
there was like a lot of other black actors there.
I had just in my first show. I was in
Dervon Hanson at the time, and I remember being so
nervous about like feeling like if I had like how
I was going to navigate in that circle and you
(15:06):
know whatever, And they were so accepting and they got
it and I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then
after that, I've just kind of been like I'm not
gonna defend myself or prove anything to you, but just
know like this is what it is. And since then,
I feel like I've been able to come into my own.
But then it also goes into like the whole situation
(15:26):
with white people and like, especially in this industry, sometimes
I'll get like film auditions specifically for like Latina girl
like spicy whatever, Like it will literally be in the
in the thing, and like, I like I auditioned for them.
But sometimes I even think like they don't understand that
I am Latina, Like they can't like a lot of
(15:49):
white people don't see like once they see the brown skin,
they're like, oh, well, like why did was this mistake?
You know, I see that a lot on TV. I
don't see a lot of after Latina representation at all.
So it's been really weird to navigate. I don't know
if I heed that right, No, you did. You did
a great job. You did an amazing job. So right now,
let's say you get a role. Because I'm sure I've
(16:11):
struggled with this, like yesterday, like today, Um, let's say
you get a role and it's like, let's say you
get it called in for Caroline. Do you I got
called in for Caroline. By the way, when everybody Sam
was in Caroline or changed on the Broadway. Just to
put that out there, Um, I got called in for Caroline.
(16:32):
I felt extremely uncomfortable going in for the audition. And
I've been realizing maybe I'm putting this more on myself
rather than people putting it on me, that I'm creating
some of this pressure. Yeah, but it's a combination of
the two, because it wouldn't even be a thought if
nobody put it in your head to begin with. That's
(16:52):
what exactly exactly. And I'm like I'm doing and even
my managers like Darylyn you can sing the ship out
of this, and like you are am I missing something?
Like I'm very confused and I'm just and I and
and it's like, oh, well, like am I black enough,
I'm a lighter skin tone? Are they just going to
look at me as this like light skin like Afro
(17:14):
Latina and like, oh, her last name is Castillo, which
has happened to me because when I was in Lion King, Um,
I was coming into cover Nala and apparently there was
word behind the scenes that people were upset that my
last name was Gastillo. So it's like, I mean and
that was my first that was my first you know,
(17:35):
like your dear Evan Hanson, that was my first thing,
and that really set the tone for me and like
traumatize me a lot. And I'm working through that. But
it's like, how do you handle that? Like, you get
a role that maybe you have that thought where you're like,
should I go in for this? Are there roles that
(17:55):
you turned down? Because I have to be honest, I
do turn down some roles. Yeah, where I'm like, I
don't know if like this is authentically like gonna be
great for me to tell this story. I don't know
if that's if it's going to be coming from an
authentic place. I feel like a fellow um, you know,
a fellow black actor could maybe do a better job
or connect with it in a different way and it
(18:17):
might be a better opportunity for somebody else. Absolutely, how
do you deal with that? Yeah? I feel like white
casting directors and agents and managers will see a breakdown
for a black person and then send it to everyone
without even looking at what the character even is. So
(18:38):
like when I get sent like a million like Nigerian
American roles and like stuff like that, I'm like, no,
I don't even like I don't even look Nigeria. Like
there's nothing I can't give. I can't tell that story
with honesty, you know what I mean. I never really
had the issue with the last name thing because my
last name is Williams. But whoever is listening, let is
(19:00):
be proof that we came from the same place and
my last name is Williams and her last name is Castillo.
Like it we are so like mixed with a bunch
of them. Yeah, so it's like, let that be proof
that you can you can be anything. Um, but I
I definitely there are definitely rules where I'm like, I think,
(19:22):
like somebody else would be better for this, and like
I know that about myself, but that could be anything
that could be having to do with raised personality, um,
you know, sexual orientation, whatever. And I think as long
as I stay honest with myself and what I actually
how I want to be perceived and the things that
(19:43):
I feel I can actually do honor to and tell respectfully,
then I'm good. So that thanks for that lesson. But
I do wish you. I wish you would have gone.
Did you go in for Caroline? Did you end up
saying I didn't. I decided not to. Um, I wish
you would have gone in. But I understand the political syndrome.
(20:06):
I get it. Yeah, the impostor syndrome is real. And
I have to say, it's just while I was singing it,
and while I was doing it, I just there was
something in my heart that I was like, I don't
know about this, and I don't know why. I don't
know what it was. Um, but I'm working through that.
You know that. Every day I think we all are
(20:27):
and figuring all that out. But yeah, day by day,
moment by moment, it's nice to hear that you're not
the only one, right. It's nice to hear like, oh
you you two us too. Yeah. Um, you went to
(20:52):
Pace Pace University and then you landed a role on
Dear Evan Hanson, which is such an incredible show. And
I have to say, as a woman of color, to
be in the show, um, that's a huge, huge thing. Yeah.
(21:16):
If you guys don't really know, um, well there's a
movie of Dear Evan Hanson. Um, and there's also like, Okay,
I'm just gonna say the show is very white, um
so um so, it was really awesome to see women
of color in the show rising to the occasion and
having that opportunity. What was that like for you? You
can be honest to the to the level of honesty
(21:38):
that you want to see. It was an interesting experience,
to say the least. I am so happy that I
am so grateful for it. Obviously, it's like a dream
come true to be a hit show and my first
Broadway show in while I was in college and stuff.
And I was so lucky because while I was in
Evan Hanson, the guy who played my I like counterpart,
(22:01):
the other funny person, was also black, so and he
was actually also mixed with all sorts of things. So
he and I and he was the first um black
male in that company skylak to Lynch and he yeah,
he's amazing, and he became my best friend and like
we kind of like stuck with each other the whole
(22:22):
time because listen, it was I mean, when you're when
you're in a show that you're the only one and
you have somebody else is the only one with you, Like, yeah,
you naturally gravitate towards that because you guys can experience
things together and go through the process of all this together.
And it's tough. I mean there was tough. Yeah. There
(22:45):
were days where like it was like you know, you
have We were like I was twenty he was I
don't know how old he was, like maybe like twenty
five or something, and there was a day where we
had to get our hair cut and like we didn't
know until we got to the theater and like, we're
not just gonna have some white lady cut her hair. Sorry, Meg,
she's a great woman. She's amazing and I would even
(23:05):
say this her face, but like literally like we didn't
know what to do. So we hid in my dressing room. Well,
someone was walking on the door. We literally hid turn
the lights off and like didn't answer until like way
later nobody was there, and then like got out, snuck
out because we didn't want anyone to mess with our
curls and like ruin our ship. But like again, this
(23:27):
wasn't like I think twenty eighteen is when I started
this show, So it's like a little bit you know,
I think before quotation, Yeah, because we've dealt with some
crazy stuff with our hair. Hair is like also a
whole other Like people don't understand Sam, You're gonna come back,
We're gonna talk about here, Okay, dear of Enhanson goes,
(23:50):
you're learning all these lessons, beautiful. Then you get to
be in a black and black, black, black black show,
Carolina Change on Broadway, and you got to be around
incredible actresses like Asia Thomas shout out to in Asia.
I mean, what a difference that. I don't think I
realized how much more comfortable I am around my own
(24:12):
fellow people, because like, goddamn, it's just a completely different vibe. Um.
But there was also like a level of imposter syndrome
because like part of me was like damn, like, am
I even like black enough to be here? Like goddamn,
you know that's how I always feel. Yeah, yeah, so
(24:32):
I definitely had that. But god, I was so lucky
that everyone in the cast was just like so welcoming
and like kind of like held me. I was also
like the youngest person there besides the people who the
kids who played my younger siblings, so I just felt
very held and lifted. And also the black people there
(24:54):
were hella pro black, so like they saw me, they said, yeah,
he's mad it but you're black. You know. It was
very and they were like that, like welcome, you know
what I mean, come to your people, especially like they
knew a lot about my experience that I had before
with Evan Hansen and feeling really uncomfortable there, So like
I felt really taken care of and like lucky, protected, protected,
(25:18):
I guess. Yeah. And also like this show is all
about ancestry and it's also about like being black in
the South, which I don't think anyone else there was
from the South. So like for me, like I was
like hit, like I understood that to a t and um,
I felt like I even had things that I could
(25:40):
teach some of my black counterparts that they may have
not experienced. So it was like, really, it's really cool
to be on that side of it. I wish I
totally wish I saw the show. I was on tour,
and then obviously you know, everything went to yeah, I
mean if it's literally like it happens like in the
thick of the pandemic, like I remember are we stopped
(26:02):
March twelve, which is when everything shut down, and that
was our day of the invited dress and then when
we came back, we were one of the first shows
to come back, and like the pandemic was still happening,
so a lot of people weren't able to come see it,
but it was. It was honestly such a good healing
experience for me. Great show. And then now you are
(26:22):
in town right now doing a musical or a play musica. Yeah, okay,
what what is it called. It's called Life After. It's
at the Goodman Theater. Comes see us. We're here till July,
I believe, and yeah, it's it's so fun. I love it.
(26:43):
What's the premise of the show? Give us a quick
quick you know. So it's about the girl who loses
her dad in a car accident. Her dad gets in
a car accident and on her birthday, and uh, the
last conversation that they had was a huge fight, and
(27:05):
she never really fights with her dad or does anything
like that. And so basically she's trying to figure out,
like was she in the car to go and look
for her, like what was he doing, Like he was
like on a random street, like she didn't really understand.
And then throughout the play, she's basically going through the
stages of grief. While figuring out why her dad was
(27:26):
out there, and also coming to terms with the fact that, like, yes,
she yelled at him in that moment, but like it
was just a moment and she didn't think that was
going to be the last moment um. And basically at
the end of the play, she realizes that, like, not
everything is black and white, some things are allowed to
live in the gray, and she kind of comes to
(27:48):
term with her grief and is able to release her dad. Um.
But it's actually really funny. I know it sounds sad,
but it's a really funny, like just beautiful family musical.
And you're the girl and I'm the girl. Yes, I'm
the girl. And in this play, my dad is white
and my mom is black. So it's just like, listen,
(28:11):
we can do this. You guys can do it. We
can do it all. And Skylar, who you met, obviously
she's playing my older sister and her actual parents are
black and white, so she looks lighter skin. But I
don't know, seeing our family like that on stage is
so real. I have cousins who are are Skylar's color,
(28:32):
Like you can be any color, you know, It's just
absolutely it's great. So it's educating. It's educating. Go catch
at you guys if you're in Chicago. Um, Sam is
a force. Sam. I got some questions for you. Oh
I'm ready. We got some questions. Okay, if you could
be in any production, play any role, or even just
(28:54):
be in a production, like if you even it's like ensemble, Like, oh,
I just want to be in that show something. What
would it be that's on Broadway right now? I like
that's playing. Let's just say like no, let's just say
anything like it could have been on Broadway. It could
have been already. Know, I want to be I want
to be and I want to be Memi and Rent Yeah,
(29:17):
or I want to be in the ensemble of rent
sas can we put this into existing. I've been wanting to.
I've been in for Memi. Okay, first off, I'm just going, okay,
this might be a little tam I. I got, I
got some big boot I got some big boobies. Okay,
but Mimi, they never want they never want car Delicious.
They always want like, yeah, that's been like my journey
(29:39):
with Memi. Well they're doing it at the paper mill soon,
right or something like that. So we'll see, we'll see
you there. Let's see what pops up there. Okay, Okay, Memi,
I love that. You'd be amazing. You should just do
our own anything like anything? Yeah, like I'll be Roger.
(30:02):
I would love to play Roger and Rent. Let's be real. Actually,
actually I'm gonna he's want to change my answer to Roger. Roger? Okay, Roger,
that Roger, but only if you're Mimi. Only if you're Meemi. Yeah,
you heard that paper mill. We want a gender bending Rent. Yes, okay.
Our second question, if you could have a last like
your last meal, what would the meal be like your
(30:26):
last thing? You have sancho of course, yeah, san Cocho
with those sons on the side. And who's making the
sancho Maya Bata even though she just passed rest in peace.
I love her and I love her, but she made
the best son Cocha. Oh my god? So yes, hers
(30:50):
and something about son culture just hits differently. Okay. Third
and last final question, what reminds you of home or
makes you feel like home? You and say again, I
can't swern Gocha no, because my mom was always too
lazy to make it, which I don't blame her. It
takes my mom is the same way that go down,
(31:13):
go down to Dikeman, go to go to it. Yeah,
y um, what reminds me of home? I think if
I'm ever somewhere and the Senia Cruz song comes out,
that's like a Mama you know that one? That song?
(31:42):
Like bro, when I hear that, I'm like, it's like
I'm taken back, um, because I remember my mom would
like blast that on Sundays to clean it and just
like I don't know that song is is what stopped,
It's what started every party. That's song, So that would
probably be the one. Sammy. If our listeners want to
(32:08):
follow you, follow your journey, see what you're doing, see
where you at. This is the social media plug. Where
can we find you? How do we find you? On Instagram?
I'm at s A w M. I E saw me
because my name was taken. And I also have an
Instagram account for the food that I make. It's called Sammy.
(32:32):
It's called Sammy makes Yummy Food. It's really silly. But
if you guys are interested in food content, follow me there.
I love that, Sammy. Thank you so much for coming
on underneath that. I don't think this is going to
be the last time You are such a light and
I wish you the best on your show and closing
in Chicago and can't wait to see what you do next. Yes,
(32:52):
you too. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me,
and it was good to meet you last weekend. Likewise, likewise,
I'm so glad we did this. A Monanita is a
production of Sonato and partnership with I Heart Radios michaela
podcast network. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit
(33:13):
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Oh yeah, me hint that. I just want to give
you a heads up. The program you are about to
hear may have some explicit language, it may not. It
also depends on where the vibes and the spirit leads us.
Hope you enjoy. Welcome to Moranita, a deep dive into
the Latin X experience. With Monita, we want to create
(00:23):
a community and a shared space with you while sharing
knowledge and inspiration. This show is about celebrating our culture
with guests who exemplify the best of us. I'm Darrylene
Gastillo Ethane Vito. You guys, I think I just found
my sister's soulmate. I recently had the pleasure of meeting
(00:46):
Samantha Williams, a fellow Afro Latina performer, while I was
traveling in Chicago, and I instantly felt the vibes and
I said, you must be a guest on Monita. That's
how these things happen, sintime, y'all. If we vibe, we vibe.
Sam graciously accepted, and you are about to hear a
lot of joy, a lot of realness, and a lot
(01:09):
of Afro Latina love. Sam has graced the Broadway stage
and shows like Dear Evan Hanson and Caroline or Change,
and is currently starring in a musical called Life After
in Chicago at the Goodman Theater. Go support the arts
if you're in the che Town area. There is so
much good theater happening right now in Chicago. It's lit
(01:31):
me hint that there's a lot to unpack on this one.
Sam is a Puerto Rican Dominican who grew up in McCallen, Texas.
You heard that right. She tells us about her experience
growing up as an Afro Latina in the South and
how that really created some identity struggles. We even go
deeper and discussed the black versus Latino stigma. We both
grew up hearing similar comments about our blackness that challenge
(01:54):
our identity, comments like your Dominican not black, or you're
black not Latino. Sam and I shared these moments of
confusion together and how we grew from them. We share
how Latina people come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and genders.
One is not greater than the other, and one does
not negate our blackness nor our Latinia. I even get
(02:15):
extra real on this topic as I share a very
personal moment that is connected. I gotta say listening to Sam,
I learned so much from her. Even in expressing some
of my struggles, she gives me advice and a word
on how to deal with identity issues and things like
imposter syndrome. She is wise beyond her years and I'm
(02:36):
so lucky to have shared this space with her, and
I hope you feel lucky to samee Vito, Sam, welcome
to Anita. Happy here. So I have to admit UM
just for the listeners so they understand the vibes. I
(02:59):
met Sam over the weekend UM. I went to Chicago
to see a friend of mine, one of my best friends,
Tyler Hardwick. He's been on the show before UM perform
in Stepan Wolf in an amazing show called Choir Boy.
And Sam was walking through the building and I'm like,
I know this girl's face because I didn't tell Sam
(03:19):
this when I first met her, but I'm like, I'm
pretty sure she's Dominican. I think she's Dominican. And Sam,
I have to be very honest with you, Like when
I started like in theater and whatnot, like I was
like the only Dominican girl. It was like me and
like maybe another girl that was it. So when other
(03:41):
Afro Latina's were coming into the room, I was like, Okay, yeah,
so I always feel like you kind of like you're
drawn to that, and I was drawn to that with
you and me and another friend were at the pool
and I was like, oh my god, I think that's
that girl, Sammy. I think I've seen her in fun Instagram.
I think she's Latina. Is that the person I'm thinking of?
(04:03):
And then like, while you were sitting there on your
computer at the pool, I was like instagramming. I was like, Yeah,
that's her. I love that. So I'm obsessed because I'm
I mean, first off, like just sickly talented. So I
was happy to like get to meet you in person finally,
and I was like, I have to have you on
(04:23):
the show because I just feel like there's so much
that I want to know about you and our listeners
I'm sure as well. Um. As I mentioned in in
the intro, sam has been on Broadway. She is now
in Chicago doing an amazing show that we'll get to
talk about soon. Um. When I first met you was
(04:45):
you were like, I'm from Texas, and I was like,
at from Texas, Okay, I need to know about this
and how that world was like for you before we
get into like all the amazing things that you do.
I'm so curious what you're experience was being in Afro
Latina and not being Mexicana in Texas. Yes, not being
(05:05):
Mexicana in Texas. You put it perfectly. It was Oh
my god, wait is that a musical that we're writing?
Not being in Texas? Put it in your nose tap
right now so we don't forget. Yeah, tell us about that. Um, yeah,
I mean it was rough. My mom is from the Bronx,
(05:27):
Bodica from the Bronx. My dad is straight from d
R and they met in New York. And then when
I was like six months old, my dad got a
job in Texas, and like any immigrant, he followed the opportunities.
We landed in McAllen, Texas, which is like five minutes
(05:49):
away from Mexico. But there was actually like kind of
a good like Dominican Cuban community there. Randomly, Dominicans be
everywhere everywhere everywhere, Like half the doctors there were Dominican,
and like my dad had gone to med school with
some of them, and that's how he kind of landed
there um So, I was there for like until I
(06:12):
was like eight, but then we moved to Lufkin, Texas.
And in Lufkin, Texas, that's East Texas, far away from Mexico,
and it was just you were either white, you were black,
or you were Mexican. But usually you were either white
or you were black. So I just kind of was
like in the middle of it all and I didn't
(06:33):
really know where I fit in. Um So, I had
a lot of identity issues growing up then. Been also
like there's a part of like being Dominican when you're
younger and like being like, well, I'm not black, I'm Dominican,
you know what I mean. So I had to really
come to terms with my blackness. And now I love
it obviously, but you know, it was a long journey.
(06:54):
Um but now we're here. Yeah, I mean high soul
sister in my entire life because I mean people wouldn't know.
But like in New York, I was born in the Bronx,
I was we left that when I was five from
the city. Um and I was technically raised in Rockland County,
(07:15):
where it's really an hour away from the city, but
where I went to school, you were either white, black
or Mexican. They didn't know what Dominican was. They were like, what,
Darylyn's kind of black, but she's not really black because
she speaks Spanish and like her hair is kind of curly.
And then I wasn't white enough for my white friends,
right because all of that. And then of course the
Mexicanos were like, hey, Latin not where literally literally they
(07:36):
were harsh and I would try to speak, I would
like speak Spanish. I would be like no, like and
they were like, they're still not cutting eggs. So I
completely feel you on that. Let's rewind and talk about
this black Dominican thing, because child, I never read like comments.
(07:57):
I remember our first episode here on what I Need
that was with him out of Nega you can't get
any more Dominican and black, so um, and I remember,
I guess because it like our my first episode, I
read a comment and it was like, oh, I don't
know why this mon Aneta show is out here saying
like we're black, We're not black, this and that, and
(08:19):
this is why I'm doing this show. This is why
I'm doing this podcast to educate you and understanding that
you can be black and Latine. You can be white
and Latina. You can be all these things and be
different colors in different shades, and that's what we talk
about here. So let's talk about this black Dominican thing
because it really be irking me. Now, is that something
(08:40):
for you that happened in your family, like in your home,
because we could be real about that too, because for me,
not it didn't happen in my home specifically, but it
happened in my cousin's home, to my aunts and uncles
sometimes my grandmother, my grandparents homes. She's crazy And we
(09:02):
love you, guys, we love so much, but I'm curious
for you, like where was that? Where was that mindset? Like?
Where was that? Where was that readed for you? When
did that start? Yeah? Okay, So I was really lucky
in that my dad, who's Dominican, understood his blackness was
black af made it very clear that we were black, um,
(09:25):
but his family was not always you know, they were
not always on game with that, and like there was
also like hella colorism that went on and it was
just like a whole thing. But for me, it was
more of like uh like especially having like my mom
(09:46):
was Bodigua and like lighter skinned and had like long hair. Um.
I always wanted to be more like her. And from
what I saw in my family, in my extended family,
was that lighter people were always kind of like pushed
to this pedestal, you know. Not I don't think it
(10:06):
was conscious. It's just the way they were raised back then,
you know, That's just how it was. And so in
my life, I was like, well, I don't want to
be considered black because I'm not I'm Latina. I'm not
you know, I don't. That's not for me, Like I'm
I'm above that yetada, Yeah, I didn't know. Um. And
I also felt like whenever I corrected people and being like, oh,
(10:28):
I'm not black, I'm I'm Hispanic, they'd be like, oh, okay, cool,
you can come, you know what I mean, like like that,
especially with white people. So like it took me a
long time to come to terms with my blackness. But
also I will say that like sometimes as an after
Latina with like curly hair and like brown skin, sometimes
(10:53):
saying you're black to other black people, they're not with that.
So how do I go through life as an obviously
black person without spending all my time trying to convince
people of my blackness, which no other fucking black people
have to do. You just are you know you are?
You are black and it should be that simple. But
(11:15):
because I think of the Eurocentric standard and colonization that's
in literally every single culture, we do everything through a
white lens where we have to prove even to our
own people that we are black enough. Um. So yeah,
that's what I that's kind of my journey with that. Okay,
(11:36):
we speak speak thirty five am Okay, come on. So
the one thing that I'm so fascinated for you because
I don't know if we've had different experiences. I've spoken
to a couple of other Afro Latino friends, then I'm
sure we have in common. Like actually Rossa and a
couple other amazing UM performers. What is that experience for
(12:00):
you in theater because I have I have a very
traumatic experience with the being accepted within the black community. Yeah,
I mean too, Okay, I'm curious. Um. I mean also
(12:31):
like you have a sister for life. I'm here any time.
I'm so happy because I need I need this because
it's so hard to talk about it with people that
don't really get it. But for you, like how are
you navigating that? And also if just for the listeners
to grasp what have you been through that? And you
don't have to like go into detail or shore names
(12:51):
or whatever you're comfortable with, but like, what have you
been through where it's been a challenge for you and
the industry not only in life but within the industry.
So what is that for you and how are you
processing that? So for me, all this kind of started
when I went to college. I went to Pace University,
and by the time I was in college, by the
time I went to high school, I had moved to Houston,
(13:13):
which was a bigger city. I came to terms with
my blackness, and I was kind of like in it,
you know, and like accepting myself. So by the time
I came to New York, I was eighteen. Um, we
did a workshop reading of Carolina Change and I got
Caroline and that within itself was like a whole deal
(13:37):
to some of the black kids, because they were like, well,
you're not really black, so why should you be playing this,
Like how are you going to be able to? And
I was literally like, are you kidding me? Like I
I don't even know, Like I don't even know how
to defend myself. I just you know, so, I I
(13:58):
went through like a few years of college feeling like
I had to prove myself, but also feeling that I
didn't really fit in because like I wasn't raised in
an African American household. I was raising a Dominican Puerto
Rican household where we listened to like Mark Anthony and
Wandos Guerra every morning on Sundays. But that doesn't mean
my blackness is any less, you know. It's just a
(14:20):
kind of different subgenre of black. And I think that
because other people aren't necessarily always educated on what that is,
they assumed that it is not enough. And I always
felt like I was never enough for like a lot
of black people because they didn't really understand, you know. Um.
(14:44):
And then I finally found my community. I went to
a party in Brooklyn and I'll never forget this, and
there was like a lot of other black actors there.
I had just in my first show. I was in
Dervon Hanson at the time, and I remember being so
nervous about like feeling like if I had like how
I was going to navigate in that circle and you
(15:06):
know whatever, And they were so accepting and they got
it and I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then
after that, I've just kind of been like I'm not
gonna defend myself or prove anything to you, but just
know like this is what it is. And since then,
I feel like I've been able to come into my own.
But then it also goes into like the whole situation
(15:26):
with white people and like, especially in this industry, sometimes
I'll get like film auditions specifically for like Latina girl
like spicy whatever, Like it will literally be in the
in the thing, and like, I like I auditioned for them.
But sometimes I even think like they don't understand that
I am Latina, Like they can't like a lot of
(15:49):
white people don't see like once they see the brown skin,
they're like, oh, well, like why did was this mistake?
You know, I see that a lot on TV. I
don't see a lot of after Latina representation at all.
So it's been really weird to navigate. I don't know
if I heed that right, No, you did. You did
a great job. You did an amazing job. So right now,
let's say you get a role. Because I'm sure I've
(16:11):
struggled with this, like yesterday, like today, Um, let's say
you get a role and it's like, let's say you
get it called in for Caroline. Do you I got
called in for Caroline. By the way, when everybody Sam
was in Caroline or changed on the Broadway. Just to
put that out there, Um, I got called in for Caroline.
(16:32):
I felt extremely uncomfortable going in for the audition. And
I've been realizing maybe I'm putting this more on myself
rather than people putting it on me, that I'm creating
some of this pressure. Yeah, but it's a combination of
the two, because it wouldn't even be a thought if
nobody put it in your head to begin with. That's
(16:52):
what exactly exactly. And I'm like I'm doing and even
my managers like Darylyn you can sing the ship out
of this, and like you are am I missing something?
Like I'm very confused and I'm just and I and
and it's like, oh, well, like am I black enough,
I'm a lighter skin tone? Are they just going to
look at me as this like light skin like Afro
(17:14):
Latina and like, oh, her last name is Castillo, which
has happened to me because when I was in Lion King, Um,
I was coming into cover Nala and apparently there was
word behind the scenes that people were upset that my
last name was Gastillo. So it's like, I mean and
that was my first that was my first you know,
(17:35):
like your dear Evan Hanson, that was my first thing,
and that really set the tone for me and like
traumatize me a lot. And I'm working through that. But
it's like, how do you handle that? Like, you get
a role that maybe you have that thought where you're like,
should I go in for this? Are there roles that
(17:55):
you turned down? Because I have to be honest, I
do turn down some roles. Yeah, where I'm like, I
don't know if like this is authentically like gonna be
great for me to tell this story. I don't know
if that's if it's going to be coming from an
authentic place. I feel like a fellow um, you know,
a fellow black actor could maybe do a better job
or connect with it in a different way and it
(18:17):
might be a better opportunity for somebody else. Absolutely, how
do you deal with that? Yeah? I feel like white
casting directors and agents and managers will see a breakdown
for a black person and then send it to everyone
without even looking at what the character even is. So
(18:38):
like when I get sent like a million like Nigerian
American roles and like stuff like that, I'm like, no,
I don't even like I don't even look Nigeria. Like
there's nothing I can't give. I can't tell that story
with honesty, you know what I mean. I never really
had the issue with the last name thing because my
last name is Williams. But whoever is listening, let is
(19:00):
be proof that we came from the same place and
my last name is Williams and her last name is Castillo.
Like it we are so like mixed with a bunch
of them. Yeah, so it's like, let that be proof
that you can you can be anything. Um, but I
I definitely there are definitely rules where I'm like, I think,
(19:22):
like somebody else would be better for this, and like
I know that about myself, but that could be anything
that could be having to do with raised personality, um,
you know, sexual orientation, whatever. And I think as long
as I stay honest with myself and what I actually
how I want to be perceived and the things that
(19:43):
I feel I can actually do honor to and tell respectfully,
then I'm good. So that thanks for that lesson. But
I do wish you. I wish you would have gone.
Did you go in for Caroline? Did you end up
saying I didn't. I decided not to. Um, I wish
you would have gone in. But I understand the political syndrome.
(20:06):
I get it. Yeah, the impostor syndrome is real. And
I have to say, it's just while I was singing it,
and while I was doing it, I just there was
something in my heart that I was like, I don't
know about this, and I don't know why. I don't
know what it was. Um, but I'm working through that.
You know that. Every day I think we all are
(20:27):
and figuring all that out. But yeah, day by day,
moment by moment, it's nice to hear that you're not
the only one, right. It's nice to hear like, oh
you you two us too. Yeah. Um, you went to
(20:52):
Pace Pace University and then you landed a role on
Dear Evan Hanson, which is such an incredible show. And
I have to say, as a woman of color, to
be in the show, um, that's a huge, huge thing. Yeah.
(21:16):
If you guys don't really know, um, well there's a
movie of Dear Evan Hanson. Um, and there's also like, Okay,
I'm just gonna say the show is very white, um
so um so, it was really awesome to see women
of color in the show rising to the occasion and
having that opportunity. What was that like for you? You
can be honest to the to the level of honesty
(21:38):
that you want to see. It was an interesting experience,
to say the least. I am so happy that I
am so grateful for it. Obviously, it's like a dream
come true to be a hit show and my first
Broadway show in while I was in college and stuff.
And I was so lucky because while I was in
Evan Hanson, the guy who played my I like counterpart,
(22:01):
the other funny person, was also black, so and he
was actually also mixed with all sorts of things. So
he and I and he was the first um black
male in that company skylak to Lynch and he yeah,
he's amazing, and he became my best friend and like
we kind of like stuck with each other the whole
(22:22):
time because listen, it was I mean, when you're when
you're in a show that you're the only one and
you have somebody else is the only one with you, Like, yeah,
you naturally gravitate towards that because you guys can experience
things together and go through the process of all this together.
And it's tough. I mean there was tough. Yeah. There
(22:45):
were days where like it was like you know, you
have We were like I was twenty he was I
don't know how old he was, like maybe like twenty
five or something, and there was a day where we
had to get our hair cut and like we didn't
know until we got to the theater and like, we're
not just gonna have some white lady cut her hair. Sorry, Meg,
she's a great woman. She's amazing and I would even
(23:05):
say this her face, but like literally like we didn't
know what to do. So we hid in my dressing room. Well,
someone was walking on the door. We literally hid turn
the lights off and like didn't answer until like way
later nobody was there, and then like got out, snuck
out because we didn't want anyone to mess with our
curls and like ruin our ship. But like again, this
(23:27):
wasn't like I think twenty eighteen is when I started
this show, So it's like a little bit you know,
I think before quotation, Yeah, because we've dealt with some
crazy stuff with our hair. Hair is like also a
whole other Like people don't understand Sam, You're gonna come back,
We're gonna talk about here, Okay, dear of Enhanson goes,
(23:50):
you're learning all these lessons, beautiful. Then you get to
be in a black and black, black, black black show,
Carolina Change on Broadway, and you got to be around
incredible actresses like Asia Thomas shout out to in Asia.
I mean, what a difference that. I don't think I
realized how much more comfortable I am around my own
(24:12):
fellow people, because like, goddamn, it's just a completely different vibe. Um.
But there was also like a level of imposter syndrome
because like part of me was like damn, like, am
I even like black enough to be here? Like goddamn,
you know that's how I always feel. Yeah, yeah, so
(24:32):
I definitely had that. But god, I was so lucky
that everyone in the cast was just like so welcoming
and like kind of like held me. I was also
like the youngest person there besides the people who the
kids who played my younger siblings, so I just felt
very held and lifted. And also the black people there
(24:54):
were hella pro black, so like they saw me, they said, yeah,
he's mad it but you're black. You know. It was
very and they were like that, like welcome, you know
what I mean, come to your people, especially like they
knew a lot about my experience that I had before
with Evan Hansen and feeling really uncomfortable there, So like
I felt really taken care of and like lucky, protected, protected,
(25:18):
I guess. Yeah. And also like this show is all
about ancestry and it's also about like being black in
the South, which I don't think anyone else there was
from the South. So like for me, like I was
like hit, like I understood that to a t and um,
I felt like I even had things that I could
(25:40):
teach some of my black counterparts that they may have
not experienced. So it was like, really, it's really cool
to be on that side of it. I wish I
totally wish I saw the show. I was on tour,
and then obviously you know, everything went to yeah, I
mean if it's literally like it happens like in the
thick of the pandemic, like I remember are we stopped
(26:02):
March twelve, which is when everything shut down, and that
was our day of the invited dress and then when
we came back, we were one of the first shows
to come back, and like the pandemic was still happening,
so a lot of people weren't able to come see it,
but it was. It was honestly such a good healing
experience for me. Great show. And then now you are
(26:22):
in town right now doing a musical or a play musica. Yeah, okay,
what what is it called. It's called Life After. It's
at the Goodman Theater. Comes see us. We're here till July,
I believe, and yeah, it's it's so fun. I love it.
(26:43):
What's the premise of the show? Give us a quick
quick you know. So it's about the girl who loses
her dad in a car accident. Her dad gets in
a car accident and on her birthday, and uh, the
last conversation that they had was a huge fight, and
(27:05):
she never really fights with her dad or does anything
like that. And so basically she's trying to figure out,
like was she in the car to go and look
for her, like what was he doing, Like he was
like on a random street, like she didn't really understand.
And then throughout the play, she's basically going through the
stages of grief. While figuring out why her dad was
(27:26):
out there, and also coming to terms with the fact that, like, yes,
she yelled at him in that moment, but like it
was just a moment and she didn't think that was
going to be the last moment um. And basically at
the end of the play, she realizes that, like, not
everything is black and white, some things are allowed to
live in the gray, and she kind of comes to
(27:48):
term with her grief and is able to release her dad. Um.
But it's actually really funny. I know it sounds sad,
but it's a really funny, like just beautiful family musical.
And you're the girl and I'm the girl. Yes, I'm
the girl. And in this play, my dad is white
and my mom is black. So it's just like, listen,
(28:11):
we can do this. You guys can do it. We
can do it all. And Skylar, who you met, obviously
she's playing my older sister and her actual parents are
black and white, so she looks lighter skin. But I
don't know, seeing our family like that on stage is
so real. I have cousins who are are Skylar's color,
(28:32):
Like you can be any color, you know, It's just
absolutely it's great. So it's educating. It's educating. Go catch
at you guys if you're in Chicago. Um, Sam is
a force. Sam. I got some questions for you. Oh
I'm ready. We got some questions. Okay, if you could
be in any production, play any role, or even just
(28:54):
be in a production, like if you even it's like ensemble, Like, oh,
I just want to be in that show something. What
would it be that's on Broadway right now? I like
that's playing. Let's just say like no, let's just say
anything like it could have been on Broadway. It could
have been already. Know, I want to be I want
to be and I want to be Memi and Rent Yeah,
(29:17):
or I want to be in the ensemble of rent
sas can we put this into existing. I've been wanting to.
I've been in for Memi. Okay, first off, I'm just going, okay,
this might be a little tam I. I got, I
got some big boot I got some big boobies. Okay,
but Mimi, they never want they never want car Delicious.
They always want like, yeah, that's been like my journey
(29:39):
with Memi. Well they're doing it at the paper mill soon,
right or something like that. So we'll see, we'll see
you there. Let's see what pops up there. Okay, Okay, Memi,
I love that. You'd be amazing. You should just do
our own anything like anything? Yeah, like I'll be Roger.
(30:02):
I would love to play Roger and Rent. Let's be real. Actually,
actually I'm gonna he's want to change my answer to Roger. Roger? Okay, Roger,
that Roger, but only if you're Mimi. Only if you're Meemi. Yeah,
you heard that paper mill. We want a gender bending Rent. Yes, okay.
Our second question, if you could have a last like
your last meal, what would the meal be like your
(30:26):
last thing? You have sancho of course, yeah, san Cocho
with those sons on the side. And who's making the
sancho Maya Bata even though she just passed rest in peace.
I love her and I love her, but she made
the best son Cocha. Oh my god? So yes, hers
(30:50):
and something about son culture just hits differently. Okay. Third
and last final question, what reminds you of home or
makes you feel like home? You and say again, I
can't swern Gocha no, because my mom was always too
lazy to make it, which I don't blame her. It
takes my mom is the same way that go down,
(31:13):
go down to Dikeman, go to go to it. Yeah,
y um, what reminds me of home? I think if
I'm ever somewhere and the Senia Cruz song comes out,
that's like a Mama you know that one? That song?
(31:42):
Like bro, when I hear that, I'm like, it's like
I'm taken back, um, because I remember my mom would
like blast that on Sundays to clean it and just
like I don't know that song is is what stopped,
It's what started every party. That's song, So that would
probably be the one. Sammy. If our listeners want to
(32:08):
follow you, follow your journey, see what you're doing, see
where you at. This is the social media plug. Where
can we find you? How do we find you? On Instagram?
I'm at s A w M. I E saw me
because my name was taken. And I also have an
Instagram account for the food that I make. It's called Sammy.
(32:32):
It's called Sammy makes Yummy Food. It's really silly. But
if you guys are interested in food content, follow me there.
I love that, Sammy. Thank you so much for coming
on underneath that. I don't think this is going to
be the last time You are such a light and
I wish you the best on your show and closing
in Chicago and can't wait to see what you do next. Yes,
(32:52):
you too. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me,
and it was good to meet you last weekend. Likewise, likewise,
I'm so glad we did this. A Monanita is a
production of Sonato and partnership with I Heart Radios michaela
podcast network. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit
(33:13):
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
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