Brave New World w/ Ben Driebergen

Mr. Shake Your Tables is on the podcast today! Ben Driebergen joins Da'Vonne and Aneesa to discuss his first elimination, the team USA implosion, and being the odd man out in a house of people who are not happy about it.

Catch new episodes The Challenge: World Championship, Wednesdays on Paramount+ and we'll see you back here next week for a brand-new episode of MTV's Official Challenge Podcast.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, I'm Anissa Ferrara. Hey y'all, I'm Davion Rogers
and this is MTV's official challenge podcast, the Best Podcast,
and we are officially yellow Jacket up Proof. If you
haven't seen, I love Yellow Jacket. The Banana Packpack is
featured one of the episodes, and the kids are watching,

(00:22):
and I am so excited because that's our show. Oh,
that's so cool. We made it. We made it, from
Time Square to Showtime. We made it. I'm excited. Did
you just looking yawn? They would have never known that
if you hadn't said you. This lady put two hands
up to yawn like it was a wall, and I

(00:43):
couldn't see her. I'm so mad. No one can see us,
but what they can see is this week's episode. Let's
talk about it. Yes. Oh, first of all, shout out
to this entire season, because so far this has been
such a great season, saying cliffhangers and all, it's been
really really good. This particular episode came in Hot Hot

(01:08):
Were you expecting Ben and Casey to be the ones
thrown into elimination? No? I had no idea that through
me for a loop because it was Durrell and Kiki
doing right, and because of that, I feel like they
were just a mouthpiece for a bigger situation that was
going on. Yeah, and it's so crazy, Sam, It's so

(01:30):
crazy because I've been over here fighting the air and
calling it Durrell because I would be wanting him to
make some big moves, but he's so busy, like, oh,
I don't want to do anything because I don't want
to shake the tables. And you literally just shook a table.
You did, You picked up the table and you shook it.
Oh my goodness, like not even realizing it, just shook

(01:51):
a table. Because now it's did he think that because
they thought that they were when when Casey and Ben
are like self proclaimed, we are at the bottom of
these alliances? Yeah, you know, did Darrell then think? You
know what? I just tossed him and it's not a
big deal. Unbeknownst to him and me because I found
out Casey been working. I didn't know that Casey. I

(02:14):
had no clue. Listen, Casey been doing some things this season,
no clue, Like I'm loving watching her play this season.
I want to assass him because Casey doesn't bullshit, but
she's also she's not stupid. She may be nice, but
she's not stupid, and all of that is being shown
this season, and I'm super, super super excited for her.
We are both signed up for this season. We should

(02:37):
have went no, I mean just to watch it. Oh,
because I'm flying. I'm flying right here. Except for this elimination.
I think I would have been okay, this elimination. We
would have did it. It was easy, mad me versu
you or I would have held that for you and
you would have just mapped it out. Yeah. I could
have did the Mad. I couldn't have held it. I
couldn't have held the way you could have held the
way I could have held that. But Cake eight times

(02:59):
for I looked at those equations to me out. I
was really surprised that West didn't get that. I was
very surprised West didn't get that. People get real like
adrenaline of nerves really just get the best to you sometimes,
where you just eight times four is every anything but
thirty two. That just gets us to our segments of
king or queen of the world and on another planet.

(03:21):
So as always I always toss it to you, who
is your king or queen of the world this episode,
and who was on another planet. I have to give
the queen to Emily. I just I know that if
I am ever in a situation in the ocean and
I can't make it back, Emily may day come in

(03:41):
and get me. I feel like she is a lifeguard
I've always wanted. I've never seen a woman swim that
fast one of the life jacket. Even if she didn't
have a life jacket, she beat the fast any of
the fast people there, she went into that life jacket
one she could have warned eighteen. I know she said,
I'm gonna keep going back for yes, and I'm I'm
gonna get him. Where was your ad West? Where? I mean, yes,

(04:04):
where was you ad listen? Compared to her, anyone would
have looked like a snail. She was so fast, So
shout out to all of your training, because that's not
something that's just like you just wake up and you're fast.
Because I would have wrapped my little arms around her,
and she would have been She would have carried me

(04:24):
home because I could you imagine, and I would have
had no shame. But we're gonna wind. I would have
had no shame. We won't get last. I'll ride you
and very little bitch the whole time. I don't care
I look at a rag doll, but you know we
won't be last, right, So who was on another planet

(04:46):
for you this episode? I mean no offense to Grant,
but I well, it just kind of was like everyone
else hit the target, but you and Grants athletics. So
this is no shade to him. Mean, it's a toss
up between Grant and Ben and West not getting this
eight times four. I'm really more mad at the eight

(05:07):
times four. But Grant also physically made himself look like
he was on another planet when he didn't make it
like he was gone. It's so crazy that you say
that because my king of the world is Grant, and
I well, he did keep going. It's just something that
really is like the marking of a good challenge. Yes,

(05:27):
he gave it very much, and you know me, I
am a sucker for the little engine they could, and
he gave very much that Like he messed that knee
leg whatever it was, he messed him myself usne and
kept trucking right, and I just felt like physically he
wasn't there, so it was like he's on another planet.
But it really is the math that really got me
this episode, So for me, it's more of the math,

(05:49):
and now I feel bad. Yeah, it definitely was the math.
It was the math because I didn't understand. I know,
we both sat here watching and I was doing it
in my head and I was like, why is this
not happening for anyone else? Like what the fuck? What
is going on? And my thing is I give people
a lot of grace when you have to, like I
don't know, drink something and induce a math, or run

(06:11):
thirty miles and induce some math. Y'all just had to
do some math. So y'all to walk a few steps
in the sand and then math. This should have been
an easy situation, like there was no I mean it's
always pressure going into elimination, but there was no pressure
to do this right now. There was pressure for the
girls because well for Zara, there was pressure. Casey was

(06:33):
holding it damn right right. Bizarre started why Ben didn't
hold it because of his shoulder. Everything, Yeah, should one
hundred percent because of his shoulder. He just had a
surgery four months ago. He said, So we'll hear about
it because we have the Chaos creator himself here today
and Ben is going to tell us all about why

(06:55):
he is the house's favorite challenger, yes, and what is
what is pushing him, what it's like to win his
first elimination, what it's like to be paired up with Casey,
and what's it like to be kind of the odd
man out and to to start, you know, piloting your
own course. I'm so happy that he came to hang
out with us, mister shaken table table again. Okay, so

(07:23):
you won't be able to see the cowboy hat, but
stay tuned. Our interview with Ben is coming up. Nack.
This is the part of the podcast where we get
to interview someone who's actually been creating a little well

(07:48):
messie drama in the house and I'm not mad at it.
The man in the hat. Please welcome Ben podcast. Thank you.
Let's do it. Is it is it. It's messy, it's messy.
It's good man, it's Ben. It's necessarily exactly we needed it.

(08:09):
It's necessary. It's see, it's necessarily messy. See. Um, yes, Ben,
I'm happy about what's going on. And I want to know.
So you did challenge USA? Yeah? Yeah, did challenge usay
with Justine, Danny and Sarah there, Okay, did you and

(08:31):
Sarah have this like riff, then yes, why does she
not like you? And do you not like her just
as much? M I think? Um, I think the fallen
out came on Challenge USA, and um we I realize
that we weren't as good as friends as some might
have thought. After VIR season forty and you know Danny

(08:53):
and Justine in that train with Tyson, Like, granted, I
probably do things to alienate myself, but you know, coming
into Worlds, I didn't feels comfortable with Danny and Sarah.
I felt really good with just team, but not so
much with Danny and Sarah. And then the build up
two Worlds, there was always like this distrust from that group,

(09:16):
you know, with just communication and like it was just
always felt like the outsiders. So going into Worlds, I
felt that we were going to be Team USA strong,
knowing that there was this riff that we were all
trying to patch up coming into Worlds. But you know,
you have to keep an eye on on the Survivors.
So did you and Sarah play a similar game on

(09:39):
Survivor or was it completely different? Um? No? I mean
for my season that I won, I got to a
certain point and then everybody thought that I was a
biggest threat and tried taking me out, and so I
was basically on my own from that one, and I
had to get idols and get to the end and
make fired. You know, I ended up winning with four already.

(10:00):
I just really wanted to make an alliance, and so
Tony and Sarah, like I stuck with him. I was
the yes man with him, right, we were too copped
in a marine and Jeremy was in there for wild Firefighter,
and it was just like, yeah, let's all three you
get to the end. I love Jeremy. Jeremy's incredible, and
you know, that's kind of what's my game went on

(10:20):
for that, and then coming into Challenge You to say,
I hadn't really seen the Challenge, watched a couple of Challenges,
and I knew it was a little different than Survivor
and you could play a certain way it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I love them both, by the way. Yeah, and so
I think that like the game plays from Survivor and
the Challenge are like separate, And so I tried changing
it during Challenge You to say maybe a little bit

(10:44):
and not reliance so much on Sarah, which I didn't
do on forty, but I wanted to keep the alliance
where Yeah, Challenge, it's good to have alliances, don't get
me wrong, but you don't have to have that number one.
And if you go into elimination, you can end up
saving yourself. But I didn't want Sarah and I to
be a package and challenge you to say and I

(11:06):
think that rubbed her the wrong way and it created
just this rift between us, two good competitors, two winners,
and uh now now it's playing out on the Challenge,
so it's interesting. It's yeah, we're gamers and it is
what it is, and no hard feelings towards Danny either
or Sarah um or just E and you know we

(11:27):
uh we all compete and they have their opinions and
I have my opinions. And I think it kind of
showed on this episode what everybody thought of each other
coming into the worlds. Yeah, and we tried patching that
and keeping that under you know, team USA strong. And
once those cracks start feeling, you know, you get one
freezing night and those cracks get bigger. So it's getting

(11:49):
chili And now I don't want to fly past that.
Like you didn't just say what you had just said, right,
you made a statement that you weren't as closed or
didn't trust or Danny anymore as you previously, but you
still had a locked in with Jesse. What caused the
detachment from what happened Sarah and Danny basically on Challenge

(12:10):
us say it had to come down with Challenge us say,
and Danny on Challenge you to say, I really thought
we were good going into Worlds. Danny played a great
game on Challenge you say, I thought we were golden.
There was no riffs, We would talk to each other,
you know, like what I assumed was men and be
honest with each other. And and then you come into

(12:33):
this one and he starts playing more of that KG
so forever. I mean, I could just get that feeling
from both Sarah and Danny where Danny's like mood completely
changed and it's playing out now like he's playing a
different game than he played on Challenge. You was say,
great game, that's his that's his prerogative, being partner with
Tory and wanting to vote Jordan. I don't know if
that's like you beat that drum and eventually you're going

(12:56):
to become a target. And I think that was My
biggest problem being attached with Danny and Sarah was a
drums that they were beaten. I didn't want to get
in rhythm with them, you know what I mean? Um,
Danny College, the way you said that, I may have
to use it. You ever see me say that on TV?
Just know that I might not give you credit, but
I'll give you credit now. Yeah, just give me a

(13:16):
little week. Just give me a little week. No, you know,
And that's that's kind of you got to be fluent
and flow with this game and your alliances. And honestly,
if you're not feeling people and your your your alliances
are like doing things like maybe feel make you feel
uncomfortable or you know, I'm sure I was doing things
that made them feel uncomfortable. But um, you know, I'm

(13:38):
just not a yes man. I'm not going to sit
there and do what I know. We saw that, right,
I hate yes man, Like put up a bit of
a fight, like nobody likes it easy, Like don't take
it lying down. Like I'm very big on standing up
for what you believe in and going against the grain sometimes.
I mean, there's a strategic there's some strategy two going

(14:00):
along with the group, even though you don't think the
same as them, and then making necessary moves when you
have to. But I don't know what's going to happen yet,
so I can't assume that that's going to happen. All
I know is that, I mean, it might be a
weird transition. But I don't know about you, Ben, But
do you think Durrell and Kiki throwing you in casey

(14:23):
in was something that other people had maybe talked to
them about in a way like, yo, you probably should
do that. Yeah, definitely, that's what happened. Um. You know
with the Australians, they were pretty good and of keeping
their legends out of the loop, right, Yes, is awesome,
but I think Emily kept him the darkness a lot

(14:44):
of things, yes, yeah, yeah, and the same thing with um,
you know, Kiki and Durrell having Sarah and Danny come
to you and we were Australia USA stronger to start,
so there was a base there, right, there was an
absolute base. Um. The Australians were definitely weary of Troy

(15:06):
and Kiki at the beginning of the season. I mean,
Emily throws Kiki's name out and it's like the okay,
we can put Keki in their two eliminations she goes
in and the other thing against Claudia, and so there
was a riff there all the whole time. But we
were like, okay, the two strongest things, we get together.
But then you start looking around and you see Troy
and Amber on the bottom of Australia and Casey and

(15:27):
I on the bottom of USA. And USA's not something
I want to be a part of right now, you know,
and everyone's you know, say what you want. Jordan. I
really like Jordan out there. Um Me and him connected on.
But you know, he when he went volunteery to go
to Ukraine and help out at the very beginning of
all that stuff, that was something I admired from being

(15:49):
in the Marine Corps and going and represent your flag
and just being in that kind of zone not a
lot of people get to experience. And so I really
like Jordan. Um. I wasn't scared to compete against Jordan
in the final either, right, I'm not scared of Danny,
I'm not scared of feel I don't Johnny West, none
of them. You know, all these guys are all legends
out there, and I'm out here to compete with the

(16:11):
best and if I win, I'm gonna be the best.
And if I lose, yeah, I'm gonna lose to the best.
Right And so yeah, and everyone, first off, everyone out
there is phenomenal. Right, Yeah, if you look at the teams,
everyone's stacked. There's no worse worst part, like nobody's bad. No, no,
it was impressive, honestly, all the legends were so impressive.

(16:31):
And the same with the MVPs. And um lost my
point there, but yeah, I want to when you say
you're not a yes man, I completely agree. And we
watched that play out in the previous episode, and I
want to run back to that real quick. What made
you shake the tables in such a way because it
was a full blown earthquake, okay, And I just want

(16:52):
to know what brought that about. It was a great television,
but what brought it about strategically? So, um, yeah, so
where did this go wrong? Danny came to me, right, yeah,
right or wrong? Right? Right? On what side you're on?
Danny came to me after a certain thing and it

(17:13):
came out of nowhere and he was like, dude, are
we are we out? Like we're not on the same
page anymore? Right, And I'm like, what are you talking about.
I'm like, no, I think we're good. Like we can
have discussions and disagreements, but like, I'm pretty sure we're
still on the same page. And so that was one
of the key things. And then honestly, the way Sarah
conducted herself in the house and like either spoke or

(17:35):
didn't speak to me was concerning too. It was very distant, right,
like people in your lines people. And and so I
saw us as an option to go in through USA
because of that, and I wanted to have you know,
I just didn't want to sit there and be like, Okay,
Australia USA, we'll get as far as we can. But

(17:56):
there's two people at the bottom, which is clear and
Troy and Amber and Casey and I that we're going
to be thrown in. And so instead of voting out
all these other numbers that everyone else wants to vote out,
why not break off from that group, right, and then
go pick up all these numbers before those numbers don't
mean nothing and you have no more votes, right, you
don't want to do anything too early. You don't want

(18:17):
to do anything too late. And honestly, the flow of
the game, like dictates how I maneuver my alliances and honestly,
the people that are in those alliances. I like to
align myself with good people, trustworthy people, and people that
are going to give you the same respect back that
you're given, right, Yeah, and so that's something I look
forward in alliance and when that stuff starts falling out,
like this is a game show, okay, Yeah, we are

(18:40):
there to win money, and so that's what I do.
I try to win money. So what is your with
that criteria, right of what you look for in other allies?
Which teams were your like perfect ally to have Casey,

(19:01):
I mean that's the way. Yeah, you know, we um
definitely vibe together. It was amazing. We would talk in
the mornings and just have real quick talks, not be
seen talking too much, and like we wanted to just
go with the flow, right and just get to the end.
That was our goal, get to the end, you know,
not create too many ways. Oh. One of the other
things that happened, say it one day, I was laid

(19:23):
in bed all day okay and didn't get out of
bed and was like it was the date of the
elimination when West loss, and so we did dominations the
night before went out, had a weird feeling, woke up
like and just didn't want to get out of bed,
and so stayed around the house. And then later on,
right before the elimination, Casey came to me and she's like, hey,

(19:45):
you should probably slow your role, like you're gaming a lot,
like you know, you saw like you don't want to
be doing what West is doing basically, And she didn't
say that, but she other people said that I was
doing that, and I'm like, where is this. I've been
in bed all day today, like I haven't talked to
anyone a day. What's going on? And so when we
went to the elimination, I had such a funny feeling

(20:06):
that I packed my bags before we went to the elimination,
even in my civilian clothes, because that's how much of
the vibe like everyone was given off and so that's
why I packed my back. Are you normally like that though?
Are you look a big energy like it shit feels
off to you unpacking a shit like I'm getting ready?
Yeah I gotta go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've like yeah,

(20:26):
there's been multiple times you know where, and it's really
interesting on these shows. Can you just get these feelings
and you wonder where they come from, you know. And
I think it's being that close to that many people
for that many hours that you just really start picking
up energy. And I think that's the true thing, like
positive energy, negative energy, and you know, little liars running
around the house, you know. And there's also that paranoia

(20:47):
that like people you try like to play the most
level head of game you can, but you can't help
think like there's somebody that had said something, there's somebody
who's plotting about something. Yeah, but the way I the
way I curbed a paranoia is like what have you seen?
What have you heard? And what are the sources that
you've either like heard them from, you know what I mean?
And so yeah, I get that. I'm just saying like

(21:08):
when you get to like six weeks, ten weeks, you
know what I mean, like like being kind of like
you know how the rooms are set up. It's just
like people stop whispering or the whispering like you don't
know what's going on. And I think it can happen.
After a couple of weeks it starts to kick in
of like not even paranoia, you know, somebody's talking about

(21:29):
you somewhere yeah, there's these rooms were so close together
and the hallways, like the mansion was beautiful, but like
their voices would carry down the hallways and so like
I heard Emily talking with Yes about throwing me in
case yet because yes, you had no idea about like
that plant, right, And so Emily's down in the in

(21:50):
the quarter there and their voice or just echoing, and
she's like it worked perfect, you know, Danny and Sarah
and I wanted to get Ben in and like and
just spilled the beans. Yes, and like finally brought Yes
up to what was going on because the corner, Yes,
like he was good with Amber and Troy and like
there was nothing and uh yeah, and so I heard
that all and I was just like you snap, like

(22:11):
I knew it, you know what I mean, Like I'm
wrong sometimes sometimes four that's when you're wrong. You're wrong,
That's where I'm wrong. Yeah, I can't do that, but
I get I guess I could read people pretty well though,
and which is a skill. And also you know I
think that watching you, Like, I mean, I've played this
game more times than I than i'd like to admit

(22:33):
or remember. Um, and it's stressful. But like I don't know.
It takes like a certain person to like really stand
up for themselves in these situations, especially when like they
feel like they're being wronged or like pointed out. I
don't know, I just I mean, I respect it. And
it's fun to watch, like not fun, but I mean
it's fun because I'm not there. Oh it's fun. It's

(22:55):
really fun to watch because because I've been on it
and Dave's been on it, and we know that like
what it's like to kind of watch all of our
friends protect our friends and you know, a long list
of that which I get and I've been a part of.
But I've also been on the side that you're on
where it's like I want to you know, rock with
who I rock with and run the final with who

(23:17):
I respect and and you know, don't mind winning or
losing to and you know, sometimes it works to your
benefit and sometimes it doesn't. But it makes for great
television to see somebody really stick to their guns and
be like, nah, I don't want to do that exactly,
but you know, our time score is whatever I think
it is, Yeah, exactly, apple Pie, But um, nobody having

(23:42):
Casey though I benefited by having a partner in Casey
right where you look at the rift between touring Danny um,
so being able to yeah, yeah, so being able to
maneuver through the house with a partner I could trust
and talk to and like rely on on a vote, right,
you say you see it in this one, THEO says
that like they're just it's a wasted vote. What's the

(24:03):
point of like being aligned with you if you're not
even like gonna your vote doesn't count. Your vote doesn't
matter if you two can't decide, right. And then just
the riff between Danny and Torry, I mean everyone you
know in the room you could see it, and then
it was just it was uncomfortable. It was really uncomble.
But again that's the point of the challenges, to make

(24:26):
you uncomfortable and kind of beat you down and then
you know, bring you back up. So okay, so wait,
before we go any further, hold on to you being
cowboy hats. We need to take a quick break and
we'll be right back after this. I want to get

(24:51):
into this elimination, okay, because Durrell and keep well Durrell.
Durrell said, as you and Casey immediately, what goes through
your mind? So you see like on the show, like
my head's down, I got my hat. I'm just ready.
It's game time, right, I'm getting ready to go play football.

(25:11):
I'm getting ready getting the shooting ride, a bowl, whatever
it might be, you know what I mean. Like, I'm
I got my game face on Casey and I m
once our name's got nominated. She looked at me and
she's like, hey, let's go do this. She's like, huh
no celebrating, No, nothing was going there to take care
of her business. And you know, get in and get out.
And that's what we did. We went in there. You
see us after we win. There was no fist bumps. No,

(25:33):
you know what I mean between her and I. There
was no clapping or flipping off the rest of the
people in there, because we wanted everyone to know, look
like you took a shot. We knew it was coming,
but don't do it again. Yeah, you know I like that.
I'd like how after the elimination, you guys did good cop,
good cop, not good cop bad cop. You did good coup,

(25:54):
good cop. No chicken legs through that. This conversation you
guys have with Durrell and Kiki after the elimination, Yeah,
you know, we just didn't want them because again, Kiki's
on the bottom of the Australians from what I've seen, right, Like, yeah,
they're Australian strong, which is fine, but there's Emily and

(26:17):
Grant and then there's Kiki and Troy and that was
kind of like straight from the horse's mouth of Grant
and Emily and so m I didn't want to push
Kiki away or Durell away. We knew it. I knew
it was a situation. It was a shitty situation for them,
and there was little birdies in their ears, on their shoulders, chirping,

(26:40):
chirping pretty loud, and so I didn't I didn't want
to push away, you know, Kiki Durell. I just want
to be like, hey, man, I understand it, I respect it,
you know, ken, I know, why can I deal and
fill it out? And a little later on I think,
like that night, Durell ended up just telling me he's like,
you know, um, I didn't know who to say. I
really didn't lie, like the fact that, you you know,

(27:01):
try putting Troy and plus I had Sarah and Danny said,
you know, I was greenlit to go in. Okay, there
we go. Yeah, so whoa. Yeah, it's all stems from
those feelings from you know, coming into worlds and at
the end of a challenge you to say, well, doesn't
that feel good though when you get that confirmation, because
it lets you know I'm not paranoid, like this is

(27:23):
for real, like this is what's really happening. Yeah, yeah
it is because there is paranoia, Like I'm paranoid as well,
but I think after being on time right like ye them,
but I didn't feel like being on After so many times,
you learn how to control which paranoia right, like it
is actually real and the other part that's just like

(27:43):
a phantom paranoia that just lives inside of me. Yeah, partmentalize. Yeah. Yeah.
So you get the news and Danny puts it out there,
like Danny says to Dan, doesn't give a fuck, it doesn't.
Danny was like Ben, you can go get bury even
the sand with those math equations. You know what's funny

(28:04):
is that Danny. Uh you know, I think all of
us are liked that though, but when when our confessions
and we're by ourselves were a certain way, but Danny
was never that way to my face. Danny would was
always respectful, kind, never portrayed any like. I mean we
had that one conversation about like are we are we
still together? And then she you know, it's you don't
He's kind of two faced. I'll just say it, you

(28:26):
know what I mean to my Like, after seeing that,
I wish you would have just talked to me. And
that's the thing with Danny and I think coming in
I was willing to work with with Danny because we
hadn't played together we had except on Survivor, right, but
we played on Challenge of say that's a different thing, um,
So I was really willing to work and talk and
discussing through with Danny. On the other hand, Sarah like

(28:48):
I know Sarah's game. I know I should play these games.
I played these games with her, and I was very
cagy with that. Plus Sarah's in Danny's here, and I
think that's kind of what separated, Like, well, if you
can do that her, you know, whatever it is, what
it is. And I'm a loyal person. I really am. Yeah,
Like if you look on season forty, you know when
Sarah got caught trying to vote me out and she

(29:09):
didn't want to ruin any relationships. So I'm like, look,
you can do it. I still love you. It's a game, well,
you know what I mean. And and so I'm loyal
un telling you you pissed me off, and as you
should be. Yeah, yeah, So, No, I think Danny's a
great guy. I had no hard feelings. Um, I think
he blocked me or something on Instagram, which I think

(29:30):
he probably has some hard feelings again for me. But
you know, has Keiki set any text messages to I
mean text messages. Has she tweeted about you? No? No,
on the show in the game about his wife, Danny's wife, Yeah,
I mean, you know. And what's crazy is I had
a survivor thing down there in Houston right before this
World's event, and Danny was down there and Kiki was

(29:51):
down there, and I'm telling you what, we had a
hell of a time. They took me around Houston, took
me to bars that I had never even thought i'd
ever go to. It was so much I would love, Oh,
it was everybody loved to see it though, you know
what I mean. In there. It was so much fun though,
and I had a really good time. And so coming
into the world, That's what I thought Danny's relationship was

(30:14):
really you know, what I mean, And I think it
just separated from like day one. I mean, I don't
know they they had they were worried about me coming in.
Justine talked about it on Banana's podcast, and all that
did was it just confirm my feelings about like how
they were feeling. So, you know, I have to ask,

(30:36):
do you think if Sarah was not on this season?
If she were not on this season, do you think
you and Danny's relationship would be different or alliance would
be different if she worked for a question. That's I mean,
I guess I can only speak to that from my standpoint,
and from my standpoint in Houston when it was just
him and I and Kiki and you know, hanging out. Um,

(30:59):
I think we would have been solid, right, But that's
just from me right now. Yeah, I also thought that
even with Sarah being on the show. I don't know
what was put in ahead his head but or what
you know, I don't know. I'm not sure. I can't
speak for Danny. For me, I was one aligned with him,

(31:19):
Justine about eighty percent aligned with Sarah only because of
Justine and Danny and Tim USA. Yeah, realistically, like, yeah,
let's keep this USA strong let's go together. We'll get
to the end. And that's honestly what I wanted to do.
That was my game plan going. And you know these
games plans are I mean, it's being in the military.

(31:41):
Your your plan is only as good as the first shot.
And once the first shots taken, everything goes goes to shit.
And well a shot was taken and it's gone to shit.
So after that shot was taken and it went to shit,
West had a lot to say. Yeah, how did you
feel about his sweet sweet speech? You know, um, I

(32:04):
thought it was pretty cool, honestly, because it's two worlds colliding.
You got MTV, you got CBS, and you got such
big characters and winners, and I mean, you guys have
been on for multiple you guys are legends, right like
the Challenge. The Challenge people are legends. You're not a
legend and survivor unless you win, right, And so I

(32:27):
don't know because the sorree is definitely to me, she
is alleged, that's true. There's there's a couple outliers where
all the challengers not and so with so many big
personalities coming in and clide and you can see it,
there's no weak links and then just that like it's
almost was almost an acceptance from the MTV Challengers. Granted

(32:50):
it was coming from the West, but you could see
the way the rest of the legends are playing and
they're giving respect to us, and I came in and
talking like listen, I'm shut my mouth. This is your sandbox.
I'm here to, you know, like build a couple of
sand castles and call it good with with all the
legends and obviously have my own agenda. I just wasn't
as as stubborn about it, you know, some of the others,

(33:11):
but you know, it's it's their sand pit. And to
beat West was like crazy, especially you know, he's a
self proclaimed genius and he is a genius and oh no,
not win eight times four. But no, it was just
it was cool. It was cool. It was maybe maybe yeah,
but it was neat to all right, he's you girls,

(33:33):
he's all right. Um, I don't want to sly past
this entire episode and not acknowledge you winning your very
first elimination because that is huge, Okay, in the challenged world,
that is huge. So how did that feel to get
your first win under your belt? Like that's that's a
big deal. Yeah, it was. I screwed it through on
USA never went into elimination um, and that was kind

(33:55):
of like a tactic of mine too. I just I
didn't want to go into elimination, have that year of
like I just want to play it kind of safe.
And this one I knew I was going to go
into elimination. I didn't know when it was going to happen.
And to get like my stripes against West and Zara,
because Zara is a competitor. She is so fast, so strong,
I mean, watching that girl run in the Qualifier episode

(34:18):
one and like from there and on, she was so
impressive and she's such a sweet all of all of man,
it was incredible. The Argentine and MS and Uk it was.
It was so much fun to be around so many
people with so many different accents and uh you know,
terms for words and slang and it was it was
just a good time, like socially, to be around a

(34:38):
different group of people like that. It was fun. But no,
Zar and West. To get my stripes on was incredible,
Like it's a big thing, I think, beating West, so yeah,
not many people can say they got stripes off of him,
so that is huge. Yeah, yeah, it's he's he's he's
a legend in itself too, So it was it was cool.
It was I'm gonna I'm honored, you know, I'm honored. Yeah, UM,

(35:00):
want to get into this, this daily the challenge, right, Um,
First of all, how far it was the slam because
it looks a little brutal. It was brutal. It was brutal.
So where we jumped off that um, the big old
platform and that drop was forty feet, I mean it
was high. It was like, I don't get scared. I
wasn't scared, like watching like looking down at TJ, like

(35:23):
you can't be scared, plus all the cameras, but there
was like an actress seeing grant you. So I've done
those flops before where you and you have to land
on your back. You can't land on you but the
safest way to do is just trust your fault. But
you don't want to over like rotate either. So it's
kind of a pury feeling. But we swam once we
hit that, I don't know, it was a long way.

(35:46):
We swam all the way to the end of this pit.
It was like a rock quarry that was filled in.
Definitely probably a football field and a half about one
hundred and fifty yards, and then you had to swim
one hundred and fifty yards, if not more, there's probably
too fo I was probably four hundred yards. It was
it was long. It was long. I was gassed my
shoulder to swimming like that, Like I got a giant

(36:08):
screw in my shoulder like four months. It's a huge
giant screw and rubber bands and everything, and swimming I
was like, holy, it's working my shoulders working in saying
with the qualifier and it was cool. It was really
neat for our viewers. So our listeners sorry who did
not watch USA the can you tell them what happened
to you and how you ended up getting injured? Yeah,

(36:29):
so on challenge A say, during one of the mini finals,
I fell with a tire. I had it wrapped around
my neck and then underneath an armpit. And so when
I fell, my right arm and shoulder completely separated and
I collarbone. It tore all the I hate all of that.
The rotator cuff in there as well, and then I

(36:51):
had a tear in my meniscus, my left meniscus knee
as well, core meniscus and rotator cuff and collarbone on
the same thing. So then I wanted to compete. Like
being able not to compete was like heartreaking being there
in Patagonia and just knowing especially I love to do
agree any because that's well, you know, sound like Uncle Rico,
Like I could have won it, you know, I could

(37:13):
throw this schooball over that their mountain, but um no,
I had came home and I had surgery and a
surgery on my knee and shoulder on the same day
in the same like wow, same procedure. They moving around
from one room to the other to the other and
then back to the recovery room. And then four months
later I was flying out to South Africa in Cape

(37:35):
Town to go crazy if this thing works. Yeah, that's good.
I'm glad that you came back from a lot of
people say after shoulder surgery, sh it's not the same.
I know after an injury like that, like shoulder injury
period like impact, hitting water, swimming, like when you haven't
done it in a while. Definitely, Like there's a neuromuscular
aspect that like freaks you out about it, like you

(37:56):
get kind of nervous that like, yeah, floming day happen,
but you just power were through it and then you
deal with it after. But that adrenaline something else too.
It is. Yeah, I'm still doing physical therapy with it
and us going every week and making sure getting back
to one hundred percent. And now I'm feeling really good
with it, and the same with money and just just
health in general. That's good. That's good. So what was

(38:18):
it like watching m Grant's injury in person? Like did
you at that point? Did you everybody or you assume
that he was out of the game or was it
like fifty fifty toss up? Like how was that? No? Watching?
So when he left the platform, like you knew it
wasn't going to be good, Like I thought he was
gonna hit the blob because when you see him jump,
he jumps like to the side kind of deal instead

(38:39):
of just straightforward. When he jumped aside, it just it
it moved his like torso and but where you want
to hit to the back and just moved it to
the left, left, And when he hit that thing, everybody
knew it was bad, especially because John Any didn't move
but you know, three feet off the air and kind
of just rolled up bag like he missed it completely,
and to get caught in that little booty there in

(39:01):
the wedge there, it was bad, but what a beast
to continue on and swim with that bum knee like that, right,
like yeah, he got out and you didn't really know
he was here. He was like it's kind of messed up,
but to hear what actually happened, like it was really impressive,
like there's no quitna that guy. Yeah, how did it
feel watching the fish the dolphin herself that Emily compete

(39:28):
in this challenge to see an Olympian swim? Do you
know what's crazy is I didn't get to actually see
her compete. She was the one person her and yes,
one compair that we didn't get to see compete like that.
And I was really bummed because anybody swimming, I wanted
to watch her swim. And when I got back, I
was like did I miss it? Did I miss it?
And like, yeah, you shoul seeing her, like I know

(39:49):
she's one. Like to see an Olympians swim like that,
you know, and just think like she was in a
life vest and everybody was like, holy gosh, she's so
she didn't have that life a song she'd be twice
as fast thought about that, because that life has sucks.
She was out like in a boat. I don't think
it looked like she had like a motor underneath her.

(40:12):
It was so her feet didn't even look like they
were moving. I'm like, are you dolphin kicking under there?
Because I didn't say, I'm like, yes, you'd have just
gone our back and been like, I'm on dolphin like
a jet ski. Everybody loved jets. But no, I mean yes,
when he got out, he was like, damn that, I'm
gonna be embarrassed, you know. But he's like, at least
it's a golden medal, a gold medal Olympus. Though, I

(40:35):
was like, you guys got to think that she's an Olympian.
It was one gold medal, man, She's gonna be all
the guys here, buddy. Yeah, I want to know this
one thing to move a little bit forward. There was
a moment and you had mentioned respect between the legends
and the global competitors, and then we see this bananas
and Sarah argument. My goodness, how did you feel about that?

(40:58):
Watching that? That is your typical Sarah, you know, um,
that is when she's hard headed. She's hard knows and
when she's set in her way. She set her way
right or wrong, and you know she can You can
have a book in front of her and be like, hey,
this book is read right and it's a red book,

(41:18):
but she's like, no, it's blue and uh, and she's
gonna stick to it. So watching that happen, it was
not surprising watching Danny. You know, I just never saw
that side of Danny on a challenge you to say
at all, So um, that was really surprising too. And
I just didn't I don't understand at this point. I
get that you might not want to run against Jordan.
Jordan's a beast. Jordan is a specimen of athleticism, right,

(41:44):
Like the guy's phenomenal running and endurance and whatever else.
But like you were partnered with like someone that's not
gonna and she's already told Tori. He's already told Danny that,
like Tory's not gonna say Jordan's name, you know, And
I just, uh, I didn't want to be like it
was just it confused me about where he was going, right,

(42:05):
Like he talks about what direction are we headed in?
And I think that's like the same thing I was asking, like,
what are you what direction are you headed? Like, I
understand your strategy, but how are we going to accomplish
that without you pissing Tory off or making like a
big fuss at a table in front of every right,
you know, So I wish, you know, I wish we
could have worked it out, but you know, you never

(42:26):
know what was the deal with Danny and THEO what
happened there? So Danny, what's crazy? Was this vote too? Is? Um?
So we're now we're moving on to the next where Grant. Okay,
So with this one, we were walking down the stairs.

(42:47):
We were walking down the stairs and Danny, I think
was just kind of After watching the show, I can
only presume that maybe he was flustered because things weren't
going his way. Grant's lost, right, and so he's in
front of me and Casey and I was like I
was saying, I was like, man, if we get thrown
in over some fucking stupid stalemate, right, I'm gonna be pissed.

(43:10):
And then Danny turned around and he's like, we'll tell
your partner to vote the right way. Well I was like,
mm okay. So then I let Casey know. I was like, hey, Casey,
like Danny just said this, yehnest. So then we go
to that and Danny starts chirping off it THEO right,
and Theo's like, buddy, what do you do? Like what

(43:30):
I mean? I think a lot of us were THEO
in that moment, you know. And he's like, well, I'm
old man, And I'm like, well, isn't that what you
just told me to do was tell my partner to
vote the way otherwise, like we're gonna go in and
what power do you have right now in saying that?
And so Casey got pissed and she's like it was
it was? It was that deliberation was pretty heated. It

(43:53):
kept going after that a bit and then wait, so
were there are more altercations? Like Casey got into it? Well,
Danny and I I kind of got into it um
at the table, and you know, all I share. All
I said was like, listen, man, you you know, I
understand where you're coming from, but you yelling at everyone
at the table is not a good look for like
I met that as like Team USA, an Alliance member

(44:16):
or anyone like that, Like you're creating ways for no
reason right now? No reason? Why'soever? Like? And I just
didn't want to be a part of that. And Sarah
and Danny also kept themselves quite a bit, you know
what I mean, and weren't very social at the very
beginning and just kind of played their sadukus and hung
out with Emily and Grant and you know, they made
it very clear what their alliance was. So wow. Yeah.

(44:42):
Oh if I could have been a fly on the
wall at all, right, anything like a bug or a butterfly,
I would like day lights switch. Well, actually I can't
be a light switch. I want to move around. I'd
be a nat too. I'm on the show. I'd like
to to pass still, but I'll come on the show
with Nats and then we could just put back and

(45:03):
be like, well, actually we know the real scoop because
we were there. Yeah. No, it's cool to see back too,
because like you know their confessions and they're talking, you
know stuff you're not prevy two at the time, and
you need to come back and see it. Um, it's interesting,
it's really fun. It's it's you know, these shows are
so fun and watching them are even more fun. Yeah.

(45:24):
So when did the wheel start turning for you for
this Amber plan? When when did that come about. Okay,
because let me tell you that's at the City on Fire.
So when when did that come about? Yeah, And what's
crazy is I even went up to Johnny, like Casey
and I went up to Johnny. That move was so fashioned,
Like tor came to Casey and I told us at

(45:45):
and and we're like, no, no way, both case and like,
we're not voting Amber. Amber is friends with Michelle. I'm
friends with Michelle. Um. Michelle said that I could trust
Amber going in and when we were picking partners and
Ambers like because Chet, we didn't want people to know
our relationship and there was no relationship, just a connection
of trust between through Michelle, So we hardly talked or

(46:07):
anything like that. For clarity, when you mentioned that Michelle
for our listeners, when you mentioned that Michelle told you
to trust Amber, you're speaking of Michelle from Survivor. Correct, Yeah,
Michelle from Survivor and Michelle Fitzgerald and she's on the challenge.
There you go, yeah, there you go. Yeah. But when
it came time to it, I came, Tory told Casey
and I. Then case and I went to Johnny and
we're like, hey, we can switch this, but like we

(46:30):
want you let in on it because like, yeah, Johnny's
with Justine and those are two that I trust for
not trust, but like team USA. So then Johnny's like, well,
if you can get it done, we could do it.
So then Casey and I just go right before the
vote and tell Amber what's going on, you know, and
tell her the truth, and and then she came downstairs

(46:52):
fired up, you know. And I think a lot of
that had to do with the vibe, but the deliberation
before when it was kind of heated and people were
or no, I guess that was that one. Yeah, so
that's what it was. Um, Troy and Amber. I tried
leaning back from Grant and being like, hey, you guys
are on the bottom of the one that we got

(47:12):
thrown it. Like I did try to do that because
it was gonna be another stalemate or it was a
stalemate on that one. Anyways, I was trying to get
Troy and Amber to change their votes. They ultimately didn't
end up changing their votes, but that seed was planted
in their head, which is a natural truth about them
being on the bottom. And so this next one comes around,
I think more um, Amber got like aware of what

(47:35):
was going on, and so when she came down on
that one and she started to vote, she was ready
to go. She didn't care, like now I Amber's fired up,
Now Casey's fired up, and now I'm fired up, right,
And it was it was It was great seeing Amber's fantastic,
she's she's a sweetheart and if you cross her like,
she's gonna let you know, you know, And so it
was cool. It was cool to see people just finally

(47:56):
start standing up for themselves. I don't know what these
you know, self reclaim big dogs think that they get
to come in and run the house like whenever they
want and just do whatever they want and say whatever
they want. And we got to fall in line. Well,
we're there, we're winners. I'm a winner. There's an other
winners in the house. And here's the reason for that.
We're here for the bag too. Don't think that we're not.
But we're not gonna sit around and we're not on leashes.

(48:19):
Like I'm not a leash person. I know that's right,
I'm not a leash. Oh. So in the snake Peak, right,
there is a scene with you sitting next to Casey
and your head is down. You want to give us
a little tease about what that is, about what may
have happened because you look like he just got stabbed

(48:40):
in the heart. Okay, yeah, and so so I so,
I mean, so much has gone on from Casey and
I being blindsided which set us on our path now
and then um coming up. I can only tell you

(49:01):
that there's gonna be a lot more people beating the
drums and a lot more people out of rhythm like it.
Oh yeah, um, you know things. It's fun, it's exciting,
like next episode from here on out. I mean, like
the whole season has been fun to watch and watching
it play out as it is and getting all the
inside information that you aren't like, I cannot wait to

(49:24):
see the next episode, the one after that, the one
after that, you know what I mean. Like, it's it's good.
It's good. It's gonna play out and it's gonna be great.
It's gonna be a great season. Everybody out there just
working butts off, every the crew of the cast. You know.
South Africa was beautiful, Cape Town was amazing. Oh boy,
isn't it so gorgeous? Yeah, it was amazing. I'd love

(49:46):
to hear your excitement about this show. It's so it's
so good and refreshing to be a part of a
production that you are excited to watch as a viewer,
you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean we're so
blessed to get to do this stuff. And so that's
why I just love I love the game, I love
the challenges. I love honestly everyone that comes into these
because everyone is there for a reason, and everyone has

(50:09):
worked hard for some point to be on the Challenge
or be on Survivor. They've wanted it, they want to
be there, and it's fun. We work her asses off.
We you know, miss our families, and now we're on
television and getting ridiculed on Reddit and Twitter and whatever else.
And because you can't let that noise in, you's got
to be special and or not be special, but feel

(50:32):
lucky to be where you're at. You know, there's so
much more love than hate out there, you know. So yeah,
there is absorbab all of that shit. Keep it moving,
and we hope, you know, you get your little bag
that's coming. I'm so glad that you said that, because
I think we tend to get showered with so much love,
but then it's like that one hate will stick out

(50:52):
like a sore thumb and it's like, why is that there?
And you like focus on it? But yeah, I totally agree.
Focus on the love. Yeah, you know, when you walk barefoot,
you know or whatnot, you might get through your sand
a bunch, but everyone's while. You'll hit a rock, right,
just pull it out, throw it away and say fuck it.
Yeah that's that's yeah exactly. I love that, Ben. Where

(51:18):
can the people find you on the social immedias? Oh?
Just the Instagram? Just the Graham there. Uh, I did
the cameo thing they got, they reeled me in. Now
they are doing the cameo and what's that you just
reminded me? Yeah, check yourself. Cameo is fine, it's fun.
So where can the people find you? What's your cameo?

(51:39):
What's your Instagram? Oh? Yeah, we did this last time.
I had to look last time too. Think it's Ben drebergain, right,
Drebin Ben? Maybe no? Oh we have Ben draggin no
space on the Instagram and then the cameo. I think Ben,
I cannot It'll be your name. I think that's all

(52:01):
it is. Band said, if you want to find me,
google me that. Yeah. Man, I just like, hey, I'm
I do the competing. I do the puking, uh you
know what I mean, like that kind of stuff. I
do the breaking. And you're a big puker, by the way,
so violent. If I were next to you during a qualifier,

(52:23):
I would have stopped and been like, can he be
disqualified for puking on me? Or can I switch places? Oh?
My god? And the worst part of that was it's
like it got to a point where like he's like,
you can't puke anymore out, like you are on the
verge of being disqualified right now, and flex of an
ant like stomach, the stomach of a of a tiny

(52:45):
little bug. No, the smell, how will you ever know
the smell of these drinks? When it like so the
wind we were standing there and the wind blew class
they were really pungent. Oh it was that they traveled. Yeah,
it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. But then so
I get down with that, and I was the first
one down, and and I like was so loud, And
that was like kind of intentional, like I really I mean,
don't get me wrong, I puke very violent, loud like,

(53:07):
but I made sure to ramp it up just to
make it so much worse for everyone else right, and
because everyone's gagging. So I'm never doing this next to you.
If there's food and it's me and you or I
will get away. Ye, bring your plugs to every challenge.
So after I ran away, I gave him one more
like as I was running away, just you know, it

(53:28):
was so fun. It's a good strategy though, because some people,
if they hear it, it'll make them do it, So
it could work in your favorite strategically. I'm also a puker.
If I watched someone puke though, you know what I mean, Like,
so it don't work, Yeah, it don't work. Yeah, So
if I got to be the first one puking, that's
what I'm that. I think that's my goal, is like
eating challenge, Like as long as I'm the first one puking,
then like that's mine, is all of the puking. I'm

(53:54):
so glad you came to hang out fun. It was
nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. Yeah,
your last interview you did with us was great. This
one was great. You're just great across the board. Keep
I hope that you keep shaking the tables this season.
I'm so excited to watch who knows what's gonna happen, right, Like,
I'm okay, that's what we like to hear. Yeah, it's

(54:16):
exciting to watch you. You're gonna move this season from
MVP to legend, and I want to see it. That's
I don't know about that, but well, like I want
to see I got it. I gotta get a win first.
I gotta get a win. I gotta get a win.
I got my elimination win. Let's hope I win this season. So, okay,
we were over here watching every week. All right, love

(54:36):
you both, honestly, I love you. Love you it to me,
all right, friends, Like that was such a great interview.

(54:56):
I'm so excited and glad that being came to hang
out with us. He gave perspective. He let us know
that it was some realty going on in the deliberation.
That made me so happy. I wish we would have
got an opportunity to so I'm like, they have cameras
in the rooms, show us, show us, because I want
to see that. He said, Casey turned up. I never

(55:17):
seen Casey turned up. I want to see that time
on Total Madness she turned up. Oh no, a little bit.
She cranked. She didn't turn up, she cranked, she was turned,
she crank crank a little bit. But we're about to
have nicknames for every single person on the show and
I can't wait they're coming. Where can the people see

(55:42):
you get cranked up? If they won't do on my
dull ass Instagram where I don't crank anything? Um Anissa MTV?
That's a n E s a MTV. And where gonna
find you? Mayor of Twitterland? You know what. I'm in retirement,
so you can just find me as a regular civilian

(56:03):
in Twitterville, USA at Ja Dahan Underscore. I think I've
been delivered from being the mayor. There's a lot of
toxicity that goes with that, so the Lord has brought
me a bout of that. And you can find me
on Instagram at Davion Diane Underscore, and you can also
find me on this podcast. Then, if you happen to
like this podcast, make sure you rate and review us

(56:27):
on Spotify or Apple podcast until a friend and after
telling that friend at new episodes of The Challenge World
Championship Wednesdays on Paramount Plus. Yes, and We'll see you
back here next week with a brand new episode of
MTV's official Challenge podcast The best podcast s,