Ride or Dies Reunion: Part 2

The four peas in a podcast are back to cover part 2 of the reunion! Devyn Simone, Da'Vonne Rogers, Tori Deal, Aneesa Ferreira (and a special guest feature from Olivia Kaiser) get into all the allegations and drama from this season. And make sure you stay till the end for a huge reveal featuring your favorite scuba diver. 

Catch part two of the reunion next week and we'll see you back here right after for a brand-new episode of MTV's Official Challenge Podcast.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone. I'm Devin Simone and I am Davon Rogers.
I'm an e Sa Ferrara, and I'm Tory Deal. And
this is MTV's official Challenge podcast. We're at the Needy, Greedy,
this is the end, guy, can we get shut here?
There were a lot of nellys. Uh this episode. Oh,
this episode. I cried for him. I love Nelson, I do,

(00:22):
except for when he called Olivia a city girl right
when they were backstage. Id to drop that Olivia's still
trying to figure out what makes her a city girl.
I cackle. I think I cackled because I laughed from him.
She's laughing in the background. I know you were so
messy in these fells when you were like get this,
get and you're pointing of ship. I told her, I'm like,

(00:42):
you're about to see some shit. So it was so
I can't that was that was foul. But I think
Nelson's feelings were still just hurt. So he tried to
drop that in there, and his feelings were definitely hurt,
Yeah they were. But more of that story, you know,
there's always more to the story that nobody tells us. Oh,
of course. And I think that, like I said, the relationships.
We might as well just get to it. Relationships in
the house don't always work out well when you get

(01:04):
into the room. Usually world they're one or two that
may last year's Tories, an example, Tory and Brad even
got married other Tories. You saw these people work out
and then you saw a lot of them fail. So right,
the percentage of people that fail are higher, much higher.
It's exceptionally right. And I think Olivia was going through

(01:25):
a lot of shit like she. I mean, she even
told me, she was like, I have to I probably
have to get surgery. I feel like I look like shit,
Like I don't want to be this vulnerable around anybody
right now, Like I want to be with my family.
And that's totally understandable. So listen, Yeah, listening to them talk,
both of them, it was like super reasonable. It's like
as somebody who's gone through the challenge and had a
significant other and then lasted on there a long period

(01:45):
of time and realized that I was using that person
as just an escape from my own reality and found
strength within myself when I was alone. It's like I
totally relate to Olivia. So of course I feel bad
for Nelson because you root for somebody who has feelings
for somebody else. You want them to do well. But
I don't know. I'm with Olivia on this one. I
think you have to grow individually. They weren't right for
each other. So but Nelson tells it in his friendships too,

(02:06):
like he pushes forward. He loves the shit out of
these people, you know, and I feel like maybe he
needs to pick better people. Nelson's we can talk about
this yet style, Devin, Maybe you should, Maybe you should start,
especially in the friend department, because I still and very
much so him. I don't think Fancy is his friend.
I don't Maybe I should reach out to Nelson anyway. Um,

(02:29):
but we love Nelson and you know, speaking of city Girl,
I just have to shout out Tory city girl nails
that she has on right now right I can't see them,
thank you. The bottoms are red like okay, oh still
let up? Yes, I need you to flick them off

(02:49):
and give them to me for dinner tonight because I
look like uh not city girl, child girl, look like
child girl out here. Oh yeah, come to my house.
I got everything you need everything. I have, these tiny
little hands, the tiny little nail I love it so much,
so we started this so obviously, you guys, we talked
so much that even before we officially start recording, we
start talking. And we started this by talking about bananas,

(03:13):
and Davon got some heat, apparently more than I did.
But I also got some tweets around a question of
if we are like contractually obligated to not talk about
people we're talking about. I don't know if if y'all
haven't figured out yet, we do not hold our tongues
at all. I certainly don't. But with that said, sometimes
these conversations are really long because we talk a lot,

(03:34):
and therefore they do get edited down because we can't
have a three hour podcast episode. But my thoughts are, yeah,
you know, or my question is, I guess what are
your thoughts about the whole bananas Veronica thing. It just
clearly struck a chord and you can see that there
is a long history between the two of them. Were
like they might not be the best of friends, and
it got yeah, you know, when you sit in a

(03:55):
room and it's like, it just gets awkward. And I
think that Johnny just doesn't like to talk about his
personal life because a lot of it has been very
public um, but also there's a history there so and
Veronica is a very I would like to say she
kind of plays by the book when it comes to
like I guess in terms of like her values and

(04:17):
her opinions, not plays by the book, but she is
very like these are my values, these are my boundaries,
this is my ship. So I think when she sees
a violation, she calls it it hurts me. I'm not
saying she is the because it wasn't relevant to her.
I kind of felt like it was weird to me,
Like I get that there's a long history, and it

(04:37):
probably too was because there was ninety nine thousand a
y'all on that stage, So some parts of it felt
disjointed when people who rightfully so were chiming in because
they were a part of the group. But like I
think it just derived from like the tweet and they
needed to see, like why people her opinion, yes, because
it was like Veronica, you tweeted this, Yeah, what was

(04:58):
the why? What's the origin this? Why do you feel
the way? Yes? So I'm I'm I'm making note of
that because I don't want it to seem as if
she just inserted herself and something that was none of
her business. She was definitely as right, that's fair. But
I mean, yeah, well to be fair even further than that,
if you're going to tweet about something like then you're

(05:18):
inserting yourself and thank you, that's just being brought up
on the show than granted, Like I think this is
the other way. I'm looking at it objectively. We're all
getting paid to sit at the reunion. I don't know
what else Veronica talked about. Her and Durrell weren't there
for very long and weren't wrapped up in any storylines.
So if I'm getting paid to just sit there, maybe
I am going to throw in a few things because
I'm not having a segment. I don't know, I'm not.

(05:40):
That's totally fair. I mean yeah, I think that's fair.
And this isn't like shade at Veronica, like I like Veronica.
It's more just how impassioned she was in that comment.
And then I was actually surprised to get tweets and
whatever about it about because it's like people, it's not
been a secret that Bananas has been an f boy,
Like I don't that I don't is that news to people?

(06:01):
That's not I think it's where he's coming from. Is
a little bit more is what him like the sword
like the person that it's coming from, rather than the
information got him agitated information itself, whether the information is
true or not, it's really the person that's stating, well,
you did such and such, you know, So had it

(06:23):
been somebody else, maybe his reaction he would be different.
I don't know. Yeah, Well, to Tory's point about you know,
her not really Vernica not really being there for long
and not really having a segment when they did give
her an opportunity, I do appreciate the fact that she
didn't bite her tongue. She said what she had to say,
so she took the most of that moment. I as
a viewer, am definitely glad she did it, and she

(06:44):
always will though you can always expect Vernica to speak
her mind and I yeah for sure, I love that,
Yeah for sure, I agree. Moving on, Should we talk
about Turbo's video? I don't. Can we name this episode?
Uh pussy chicken? I know, I get a level four

(07:06):
because it's four of us level four chickens. Yeah, but
there's only one Devin, and yet he was a level
two pussy chicken, like that's where. Yeah, because there was
the first pussy chicken, so he had to be a
level two. I loved the video. I felt like he
ran everybody down. I loved it. I thought it was entertainment.
I love that you said that you enjoyed the two Tory,

(07:26):
even though he was talking a lot about you girl,
when he said you needed from your faces, I fell
out because it was it was it was funny. The
only thing I didn't like, and I will say this,
is when he called Nanny cheap. Yeah. I didn't like that. Yeah.
The only reason I didn't like that was because I
was there for War of the Worlds. I can never
say that, right, I think I did this time. I

(07:47):
was there for that when they bonded, and I watched
them bond and I saw how patient she was, how
gentle she was with him, and vice versa, how they
were with each other. And so I wasn't in the house,
so I don't know what he saw or what she
saw or what happened. But to see them get to
a point now where he's calling her cheap, I'm just like, oh,
this is it's heartbreaking. It's really sad. It was sad

(08:07):
to hear that Yeah, Turbot's interesting because I on the
contrary of him saying I have two faces, which in
retrospect I believe is out of calculation. Like I'm playing
a game. I'm gonna be whoever the fuck I want
to be, to whoever I want to be to get money.
I'm not here, Tom, I have friends outside the show.
I'm not there to be your friend. And if I
am being your friend and it's authentic, cool, But if
it's not, whatever, I don't care but him, he would

(08:28):
come up and no, City Girls nails have changed. I
don't care more about anybody two episodes ago to now,
I got the nails, she got the high bunch. She
just needs some hoops and we're there. Yeah, she does
need some hoops with her name going across them in
the middle. You guys are crazy. Let's see pancakes. No, listen,

(08:50):
just listen to me. I'm I literally like I can
appreciate it for what it is. And I think that
he's interesting because I've talked to him on a side
before and he has literally been like in the game
on the show, I will put on a face and
I will say whatever I got to say to win,
and then after the show's over like, there is no
b there's no drama, like he also feels and plays

(09:12):
into this character that he's developing, because that was he
definitely came across as like an overly overly, overly overly
I'm studying for my final exam, well practice read rather
than it was. But it was delivered. It was, but
it was delivered not the editors having his back by

(09:34):
putting but with the sound effect in the trash. Yes,
that part was funny and the sound effects were funny.
But do you think he really chickened out from coming
or do you think they always planned because I don't
know that it would have been delivered as well if
it if he hadn't you know they had awful If
he would have showed up and tried that, it's just
cry Yeah, I don't. Yeah. The video is so much

(09:56):
more like he took his time to show his after abilities,
his editing abilities, all coming to collect them with him,
them rings, he coming to get him and fitting them stones.
There you go, he coming to get up for Molly.
So glad I went. He wasn't really either. He was there,
he wasn't. He was in the corner. He wasses corner.

(10:18):
Next you heard that I'm bringing I'm not scared unlike
Unlike I go in with the same face. Now maybe
different hair, but I go on the same face every time.
Come at it. If I said, I stand by it, um,
but he was very it was the pussy chicken is
just between that and like Nelson and needy greedy. I
think those are probably two of my favorite challenge phrases

(10:39):
of all three. Now, like Nelson said, more things that
are really funny. I told Nelson after we did our
interview with him on this podcast, I text him and
was like, you need to start doing merch with your phrases,
Like you need like I can help you. You need
to start doing merch. He was like, oh my god,
such a good idea. I'll call you tomorrow. Like I'm like, Nelson,

(10:59):
you could be so much money right now, all of
this stuff you say and like what are you? What
are you doing? Don't call me now. After listening to this, Nelson,
I will not answer. Your time is fast. How else
did you guys feel on the reunion? Like there was
so much stuff like can we talk about Amber's revelation there?
That was really interesting and also interesting given that Tory.

(11:23):
When you and Devin were on, we talked about neurodivergence, right,
and we talked a little bit about like brains thinking
differently and all of that stuff. And so Amber's revelation
that she's been diagnosed with autism, I think it's so brave,
so so so brave. I also got a message from
a listener who said that they appreciated the podcast episode
where we talked about neuro divergence because their child has

(11:46):
a version of that, and that just they appreciated us
normalizing it and making it not something that's like stigmatized.
So I can only imagine that this episode with Amber
pushes that that much further. But how did you guys
feel being there when that was revealed, Like, what was
the energy in the room? What were your thoughts? I
definitely think it was shocked because nobody was really expecting

(12:06):
her to say that, And then I think people were
trying to support her and trying to figure out how
but it was mostly just like listening and taking it
all in, right, like you're trying to understand them more
and on a deeper level, and she really did. She
was proud of it and so taking in that and
then taking in the fact that she was pregnant. These
are two major announces, Yeah, on a reunion like major.

(12:27):
I think it definitely caught some people by surprise, just
because like certain people don't don't like Amber, and I
think that they were trying to figure out if it
was real or not. But in my opinion, if somebody's
gonna say this and speak their truth, let them be
their truth. It's not up to me to decide whether
or not I believe it. That's that's their truth, and
like it doesn't matter what I think about it. So well,

(12:49):
some of the things too, that I've heard people complain about,
or that through the Great ND people complained about regarding
Amber and the symptoms she described, and just the very
very little I know about autism makes sense, like of
people feeling like she's not genuine, or that she mirrors
or that she's fake in certain ways, right, like that
narrative was sort of spread about her. But that can
be a trait of autism, is you don't fully feel

(13:12):
comfortable in your space and yourself. So like it makes sense,
you know, I don't think she's faking it for sure,
And I agree with you, Tori. I think if someone's
going to be that brave to say that that's bold,
because not everyone is going to be as understanding. But
I also think it makes sense around why for some
people maybe she felt inauthentic in moments, because that is
a trait when you don't feel authentic in yourself, to

(13:34):
try and mirror what you see happening. So she talks
about how she lied at one point, basically saying she
wasn't on medication when she was on medication. So in
the past she had done things that were not exactly
aligned with what was happening, so that I think that's
what made people question her. But her ability to own
it in this moment then under makes it all clearer
or why maybe she was acting certain ways. So I

(13:55):
think that this whole thing is just helping us to
see her more clearly. So and I think I was
gonna say, I think this is an opportunity to give
her some grace because at the end of the day,
her actions were heard trying to figure it out herself.
She was trying to figure out who she was, how
to navigate it, and how to show it to other people,
you know what I mean. And so she's trying to

(14:16):
figure this thing out as she goes, and honestly, as
somebody who has been I feel like we all have
humans or go through a phase where it's like who
am I? I need to figure out who I am?
And a lot of us don't learn it until where
you know what I'm saying, And so I just I'm
glad she finally knows who she is and can walk
and stand in her troop. So congratulations to you Amber

(14:37):
for being so brave and speaking enough for yourself like
pregnancy and that at the same time, Oh, I just
want to hug you and just let you know that
you are loved and you got this, Mama, you got it.
And like we said with the episode with Devin, like
neuro divergence literally just means that your brain thinks differently.
And as as time goes on, what I think has

(14:57):
been really great as people are starting to see there's
truly superpowers with your brain thinking differently. I believe part
of the reason why um, you know Devon or you
know Team Dave and Dave, but why he excels in
the way that he does in the challenge around puzzles
and all that is because of you know, hes Y,
the ADHD which he shared with us, which is a

(15:18):
form of neuro divergence. I have it as well, and
so it means that you react differently, but you can.
Really it doesn't mean it no longer should be stigmatized
that it's a disadvantage because it really can serve as
an advantage in other ways that when you know it
and when you own it. And so I'm excited for
Amber to really be unlocking her in vinity star power

(15:39):
can be and be able to make so so much
of that because it's such a spectrum as well. And
so I think two. Sometimes people think, oh, I've met
one autistic person. I know what that looks like. It's like, no,
not the biggest thing. Yea, autism looks very different. Yeah,
you can't put it in a box. You know. Reality
TV sometimes it gets the label of toxic because it
can be, but it's also entertaining. But I love when

(16:01):
there are moments of opportunity to like to shine a
light on on good things and growth into open perspectives.
And I'm really happy that they that she shared that
on the reunion and that that was on the show
and featured, because I think that's an important conversation. Yeah, Okay, guys,
we need to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
We'll be right back after this. Okay, girl, we'll speaking

(16:33):
of conversations. Okay, yeah, yeah, because I want to get
down to it. Did you or did you not tell
Mariah that she needed to sleep with somebody in order? No?
I did not know. So why does she? Why is
she saying that? I don't fucking know. That's what I
sit on the stage, like roll the tapes where I

(16:54):
ever she like, where I slut shamed you or ever
said that? Because Johnny would come to me every day
and be like, this is just gonna be a slow road,
and she is. And her and I had even talked.
I'm like, you have your values, and you have your boundaries,
and I love that you have them, Okay, And we
sat on the couch, as God is my witness, and
I said that to her. I would never, as anyone knows,

(17:16):
tell some woman that she needs to sleep with anyone
to get anything, especially on a motherfucking challenge. I haven't
had to have sex with anybody to get anywhere, So
that would never be my advice for anyone. Very adamant
that you said that she was. She was very angry
about a lot of things, and I think that it
was crazy because it was about Fessie and then I
got dragged into that. But did you see him say that?

(17:38):
He was like, I think he said something like I
was like, I got off the hook there. Yeah, he
was like, I got off the hook. I was like, yeah,
you did. And I think and Maria and I have
talked and she was like, I want this to be
in the past, and she had some anxiety. We both
had some anxiety about this episode because I don't like
to lose my cool. Yeah, but like I said, when
she said I didn't have a voice, she even says it,

(17:59):
and I said it on the podcast, and then she
reiterated that. I think she watched back and she was like, damn,
I should have said things when I was there, and
I think that really made her upset. So when she
got there, she had all of the things that she
wanted to say to everyone in what I didn't appreciate
was like, well, you know, a lot of people feel
the same way I do about you, and then said

(18:20):
Johnny had said things about me, and I'm like Olivia
and Theresa my friends. Yeah, and if anybody else has
anything on the stage to say to me, I think
they already have Yeah, but no one was going to
speak up and say I don't like when people do that. Well,
everyone's talked about you, like I don't like that kind
of conversation is between you and I, right, And we
went out to lunch two days before that, So I'm like,

(18:41):
wait before she said that, con yes, you, So my
whole thing is if we're going to squash beef, then
let it be squashed. If you were going to bring
up all this stuff on the reunion that we already
talked about, then yeah, Well I think it just and
not that I think that like she shouldn't have a
conversation with you prior, but like if she felt like
she didn't express herself enough on t you could see
how she would have wanted to express it on the

(19:02):
reunion and somewhere else. But how do you what if
what if I'm not saying she's thinking about a call back,
but what if she is? If I get it? You know, Um,
how do you feel about how she talked to me, Tori?
I think that, Um, you handled yourself well, I really do.
That's not what I asked you. How the words right

(19:23):
out in my mouth. I honestly, I think that you
handled yourself well. But I think that she probably felt
at some point like she felt with me, distance from
all of us, and I think we did isolate her
in a way. So I don't think we did. I
don't understand when we become kumbaya to everyone. I'm not
saying was watching either. We weren't me neither. But no,

(19:44):
she hung out with the rookie girls that we weren't
all close with, so she went to where we were comfortable,
which is me and you or me and Johnny or whatever.
Like I said, her and I aren't the same age.
We don't talk about the same things. Bessie was like,
I have a friend. She talks a lot. You guys
will probably get along. That's how we produced us at
the airport where she said I was rude. I was
already drinking and I was tired, and I knew we

(20:05):
were about to get in a stressful situation. This show
is not called the Challenge best Friends, and I used
to think it was until I realized that's not entertaining.
One and Two, how do you win a game show
if you're friends with everybody? It took me a long
time to realize it's sure, but not everyone's going to
get along. And it's like, I don't like the fact
that we're judged based on the fact that we may

(20:27):
not like someone, not that we're saying we're isolating them
or whatever. She had plenty of friends, more friends than
we had. She had her whole little squad. Yeah, I
do think that it's interesting that she came at you
and not more at other people, considering some of the
way things went down on the show. Like obviously those
who can't see the video, by the way, a niece,
why this is why they're like, oh about the podcast?

(20:50):
About the podcast is because Devin likes to call me
out on all of my facial expressions that I wish
you would just not talk about because I'm just trying
to give the whole Someone asked if we would do twitch,
by the way, because they really see our facial expressions.
I'm trying to give the full and the whole context.
And you're not wrong in feeling your feelings are valid, Anissa,
and so we just I'm just trying to lift them up.

(21:10):
As Tori is telling her piece and Mariah and I
have totally squashed everything. We talked about everything, and I
hated that I came out of character, but I also
felt like, well, I'm also going to defend my character.
Of course you are. I don't think you were. I mean, look,
anybody being attacked like that, whether whatever she was saying
was her perception or true or whatever, I think anyone

(21:31):
would respond. And given that you guys had lunched two
days prior, where you're thinking things were okay, like for me,
that I that's like the biggest shock, Like I would
totally be like, wait what, I will say this too,
for and this is true for all all of us here.
You know, it's been so long, and especially for some

(21:52):
of you guys like Anissa and Tory who've done many
upon many upon many upon many upon many upon many
upon fast forward, commercial breakback, many upon many upon seasons
um that that the feeling you have when you're doing
your first one, and the insecurity around when you're doing
your first one, and perception and all of that, it's
like it's like I remember my first Real World season.

(22:13):
It is the only season I ever regretted of anything
I've ever done, because I too didn't feel like I
got to tell my story like I was so nervous
about what to say, and I didn't speak my voice
and blah blah blah. And so when I came back,
I was very different and more like, here, take me
as I am. So I think the grace was rookie.
Sometimes it doesn't justify all their behavior. But just when
you're a first time we're thrown into this, it's different

(22:36):
than when you've done it a few times and you
know people and you've just found yourself. You're a little
more confident in yourself or who you are. Ye, I screamed,
this is the first time you've done this in the argument, Yeah,
so yeah, I was trying to like de escalate while yelling. Yeah.
I was like to say, I don't know if that's
the tactics. I tried whatever I could, you know. Yeah, So, Davon,

(22:59):
you're making it fas because you said it very polite
and that's just not my experience. My experience my first
season of the Challenge, where the vets were very quicky,
they were very clicky, and um, the gate was locked
and I had to force the lockdown in order to
get in the best way I could. And I don't know,
no one died from it. But it's that doesn't mean

(23:19):
you're not uncomfortable along the way, and it shouldn't be
that type of situation. The environment itself is already uncomfortable.
Who are you to make it even more uncomfortable for me?
But who were they to have to like roll up
the red carpet. I'm just playing out the red carpet,
and I feel you don't have to roll out the
red carpet, but you don't have to go above and
beyond to make me feel like you're hazing me. This
is not a fraternity. Well, no, there was no There

(23:40):
was no hazing on my season. I'm not gonna say
that because nobody like putting their hands on me, hazing
or nothing like that. But it was very much so.
We are here, you're there, and you have to work
to get here. And I'm like, that's cool. I'll do
the job, but you don't have to be nasty as
I'm doing the job to get there. This, this environment itself,
the challenges itself is are very difficult. It's a very

(24:01):
stressful environment. And I understand it. You guys have seniority,
you guys have been there, y'all put into work. I've
been doing this for years. You made name for yourself.
That's great, that's awesome, But you were a rookie once
before too, and then when you felt when you came
in there's no grace there, and it's like I had
to do what you need to do it too. But
I also I get what you're saying, and I totally

(24:23):
get that. I also feel like for people that came
from Real World or Big Brother or like had a
starting show, kind of got an eye, like kind of
got a heads up into like what this world kind
of looks like in a non well, yours is a
competition more so, and so it's tories. But like for
Devin and I, my life would say for five months
of like we're going through real shit. So I was

(24:45):
ready to go when we went on the first one,
I was like, oh shit, vacation. But the game was
also different. Yeah, but it was a popularity contest because
there were no eliminations. Yeah, so people didn't like you.
You were out of there, so that was even worse. Yeah,
it wasn't like you were a threat in the game
because because she has a good athlete and she had
a great partner, So it's like it wasn't even that

(25:06):
back then it was like we don't like you, you you
can go yeah, And it's true she came from no
show that was her first and I think that makes
a big difference to Yeah. I agree. It's a lot
being living your life in front of a camera like that,
and I'm glad she found she felt she found her voice.
I'm also glad that the podcast got so many shout outs.

(25:27):
Listen at the same time and you know, going to
hate me Anissa and Torria person today, David and I
came on this podcast because they've managed to walk the
line so well that I like to be real for
the people that is all shout out to play with
said people. Um not that I don't get call to do. So,

(25:49):
you know what, I really want to have that conversation
because it's it's it's uncomfortable for me as somebody who
really don't care. Like at the end of the day,
I feel like if I ever do go back into
a season, if you're going to throw me in on
something I sit on a podcast, then let's go because
you want to pick me out whatever it is, what
it is like, I don't have that fear, but I
do feel like on this podcast certain things are not

(26:11):
discussed in full depth the way that they should be.
And I don't know if that's because I'm going back
on another season I'm gonna have to see these people,
or is it I just genuinely have nothing to say
about it? Well what specifically, It's been a lot of
different things. I can't pinpoint one thing in particular, but
it's been a lot of conversations that we've had and

(26:32):
rather than answer, it's been like a, well, I think
it comes down to, like what is being talked about? Like,
I don't think I've ever actually shied away from a
true opinion about something if I felt strongly enough about it.
But there is a point in time where it's like,
is it gonna benefit me to say this? I don't know.
And at the end of the day, I'm gonna look
out for myself and but I'm still gonna speak when
it comes to things that I feel like deserved to

(26:54):
be talked about. So I think it's just very certain
it's circumstantial. I want to know what Dave Hanna's sick, Yeah,
I want I want to know what which what you
would like us to go more? In one oh, okay example,
here you go Tori last week. Last week, we were
having a conversation and we were talking about the Jordan

(27:15):
versus Anissa situation, right, and I asked you, or I
think it was brought up, how you felt about it
or whatever, and you basically borderline defended Jordan as opposed
to stating him being in the wrong. And I think
I've heard you say before in that situation you didn't

(27:36):
fully agree with what he was saying to Anissa. So
and I talked to Anisa about this after, like me,
watching the way Jordan and a Nissa spoke, it was
triggering for me because of the way him and I
would talk to each other. So I didn't ever want
to interject myself in that in that conversation because it
brought back up old memories of him and I. So
I'm not just I'm not defending her as a friend

(27:56):
because I'm also going through my own traumatic experience really
living moments with him as an individual. So I'm taking
a step back just for that reason. And that's all
I feel like that. I get that, I get that,
but it ain't just that. It's a lot of situations.
Johnny is one album and it's a lot of other situations.
You guys, I just feel like, well, when it comes
to this podcast, it is supposed to be an opportunity

(28:18):
for us to just really talk. Can I say this, though,
I think that there is with any good show, you
need balance, and I think the four of us provide
such a good balance. Like every one of us here
has the styles and the ways and the whatever that
people respond to. And that's based on all the reviews
I've read and read it threads and comments. So I
don't think every one of us has to be the

(28:40):
first one to like push a question to you know,
and and and we we all kind of challenge each
other in different ways. Like you know, Anissa forever gets
mad because I talk about like challenges me when I
talk about her her facial expressions, and everybody knows I
make them. Yes, she definitely secret. You really should I
make them on camera? Yeah, you guys, it's they're even better.

(29:01):
I can't help I try, actually to you. But I
think that as this like sisterhood, I actually think we
have like a perfect mix of a balance, because too
much of any one thing is just that it's too much,
And like Tori said, too if it's a genuine generin
general consensus on something, then it's like sometimes not needed
to like go in depth on and if there's different opinions,

(29:23):
then I think that we have that too. Okay, we
obviously need to take a break. Don't go anywhere, you
guys will be right back after this. Getting more into
this reunion, what were your thoughts on Nourice and the

(29:47):
Johnny hook up and then Nurse saying that Johnny is
indeed still blocked um from social media, but that but
that she hooked up with him the night before the reunion.
Were you guys shocked by that at all? It's just
I already knew that's what out tory. That's exactly. Oh
it's so toxic. Yeah, I mean like they're I've I've

(30:07):
lived that life before, I've walked that path. I've blocked
people and fucked them. Like that's an old version of me.
So I see people who do that now and I'm like,
stiff arm, stiff arm that because it's toxic patterns and
like it's only going to lead to dead ends. Yeah. Yeah,
there's no way to back up from that. Like once
you block, block bang, bang and block, once you B

(30:28):
and B. I feel like that is the forward trajectory
of the relationship. You only have a B. You have
an f W B B B friendship for right, Like
that's what That sets the tone for the rest of it.
I don't think you can go back and be like,
let's have a relationship now. There's a meme about that,
like from loved to block to like a true love
story or something like that, from baby Story. Are they

(30:52):
together now? I don't know. I'll ask her tonight. Oh
but I don't think so. Oh no, Olivia in the
background saying hello, Oh wait, okay, wait is that Olivia
in the background. Yeahs Olivia, she's in my dad. Oh,
oh Olivia, we love you so much and so yes,

(31:13):
of course, what you say for you, you're trading Nelson
out for me. I told she loved me. I mean
but that I mean she he knew that as soon
as soon as he voted her in that one time
or that two times, three times? Um Anissa, Speaking of
your facial expressions, the face you made when Bessie said
he and Nelson are similar in real life? Oh my god,

(31:35):
what did I do? You looked? I mean, just the
face was like, uh, it was like the math wasn't
math like your face said that, like because he was
serious that he was like, yeah, you know, me and Nelson,
I think when we were similar in real life. Just
I'm still confused by that state. I don't even think
Nelson how, I don't And when did they hang out?
I don't know, I'm I don't, I don't know how.

(31:57):
I'm still very team. I don't think they're friends, like
I don't I think Nelson really maybe Fessie's Fray, but
I don't think is Nelson's Frain at all. And I
also want to say I appreciate this O Marion journey
that Nelson is on. Um, this journey, I can't deal
with you. But I'm gonna need baby to get a

(32:17):
little man because it's not really wing for me. We've
already seen him. Man. I don't like when he has
misdirected anger. He actually okay on me in the he
stabbed on me while filming that. Why what happened because
when well, I think because looking back it doesn't make sense.
But it was after like the whole deal I cut

(32:37):
with Fessie and Jordan, he felt like he wasn't a
part of that. Yeah, so he snapped about that and
so what did he say? Do you remember? Basically like
you're fake, you're a snake, You're this, you're that, and
so none of that made it so wow, did he apology?
Are you guys good? Now? Like? Did he apologize? And
immediately after all of that he came up to me
after and I was like, I just want you to
know we're all good. And I was like, Nelson, I
don't give a fuck. You can think I'm a snake anyway,

(32:58):
I don't care. Like it's all good, We're cool. I
actually ran in him at the airport two days ago.
Like it's the nails talking, right, I know, right, she
is a clickity clack y'all are gonna know I have these? Yeah,
she's talking a lot with her hands to the real quick. Yeah,
it's just you know, I think I talk with the
hands all the time, but I think the nails make it.

(33:18):
Oh you nails always make you. So what did you say?
Is there something else you would like to say? Davion?
What is it that you want me to speak on Dave?
For those listening, just to narrate. Basically, Davon and Anissa
are now imitating and talking with their hands, but no
one's going but let me say shout out to Davon's
Daisy Nails. She has a light Easter Easter celebration on

(33:41):
and I love that. So I do think Nelson has
has a spice to him. But for some reason that
got edited out, maybe because who knows why it's not
I think he was more so sad about the Olivia thing. Yeah, yeah,
he was. Really Olivia, you broke Anissa. Tell your your
visitor you broken Olivia. You broke Nelson's heart, but not really,

(34:03):
But then tell your visitor that I suppose you know Nelson.
Nelson falls in love, you know, every day, every day. Yeah, well,
we've talked about Also, there's camp syndrome. It's a real thing.
It's part of the reason many of these things don't last.
You're in, you're limited, and you're who you're around. You
start to be like, oh, this person's appealing, and I
love the way they say to everybody like and like,

(34:27):
that's just camp syndrome is a real, very vague You
walk outside and you're like, damn, that palm tree looks good.
Anybody noticed the leaves on that thing? I had a
crush on the audio It could be dead. Remember yahout
camp syndrome is real. But I do want to know
who camped out on Oh can we talk about the

(34:49):
camping out on fancy jacket? Do you want to stand? O? God?
Because thank god it was white or cream? Wait? Who saw?
Who discovered it? Is what I want to How did
they find out it was you? Well, somebody a birdie
had told me. I don't really remember the bird I

(35:09):
swear um flew on my shoulder and said, oh my god,
there may be some DNA on a jacket. Oh I
know the birdie. The birdie flew into your bed. She's
sitting right behind you. That would make sense. I don't know. Lin,
did you tell me that? Oh? Live told me. I
told you. I knew it. I knew it. I will

(35:30):
say one thing. She's she's very honest, she told me.
And then I just giggled a lot because we would
Argentina was cold. We were there in the winter, so festy.
You know him? He loves clearly a white puffer at
a white sweater. Mmm, both with the fur wait the
jacket with after without knowing that, yeah, I think so.

(35:50):
So I told him. He was like, that's my homie.
D Dad. I'm like, so you're defend that's nasty. Maybe
I love I love Olivia, but I'm stripping the sheets,
not right now. I mean, but if she was in
bed with somebody else and there's there's DNA on my anywhere,
I'm either burning or hot water to it. I'm not

(36:10):
wearing it like I would have had to have the
finest dry cleaning Argentina could afford, Like, give me what
you got. That's a whole different way of sharing DNA.
And speaking of sharing DNA, let's talk about the Tory
Laurel Jordan thing. Um So, when Maria brought up Tory
about this whole Laurel Jordan hooking back up, Like, what

(36:33):
were your real thoughts, because I felt like, I don't know,
I felt you were super cool about it. They were
all like, yeah, I felt like there would have been
stronger feelings now that you got the clickity clack nails.
I'd love to hear her take her take, No, hobnously,
you want to know how I feel. I've gotten so
much heat over the years for hooking up with multiple people.

(36:55):
So for me to expose that Jordan has yet hooked
up again with somebody else from the show almost made
me feel like everybody points to fingers at me, but
like he's a dude, he's also doing the same shit,
put the heat that way. So I honestly, especially after
everything Jordan and I've been through, I have no feelings
for him anymore. So I genuinely don't care. The The
only like positive feeling that came from it, and this

(37:17):
is unfortunately at Laurel's expense, was that Jordan now gets
it also exposed for sleeping around the way I do.
And I just wanted to be I want us both
to be looked at evenly like that, like I have
numbers on my list, he's got numbers on his list.
We're even right. So that's how I feel about it.
And so it was Laurel because Laurel was with Nicole,
and then you know, yeah, can I wanted to Yeah,

(37:38):
I want to know about that. I'm not David, Dad.
I don't want to go down the yellow brick road
with you right now to it. I am so eff
and curious. We'll talk later. What I do want to
know is how you guys felt about seeing her be
vulnerable about Hara Fiel, like that that was a moment
for me, like to see her cry about that situation.

(38:00):
I was just kind of like, okay, like there was
something really real there because it went from Michelle here
to like this very soft like I really felt this, yeah,
you know, and I think we all you could feel
it through just watching it. Yeah, like there was just
something deeper that perhaps she well clearly she hadn't shared
with us, and we clearly couldn't see just from their interaction.

(38:24):
I definitely think Laurel had very obvious and deep feelings
for him, Like after she left and after Jordan and
Maurice had, you know, their moment later in the season,
Rossio and I snuggled like a bunch of times, and
after all of that, none of that even made air.
But after she had heard rumors of it, I think somebody,
maybe Mariah mentioned it to her. So I went up
and I had a conversation with her and I'm like, hey,

(38:46):
like I was snuggling with Rossio, like I wanted to know,
do you care about him? Because if you do at
this reunion, like he was kind of like flirting on
me a little bit, I'm like, I don't know this
is about to happen, So I'm like, let me ask
Laurel straight up, like do you have feelings for him?
And I will totally back off? And she was like
I do and I was like, okay, cool, I'll done.
So I think that at the time it was very real.
But um, you know, I mean, it doesn't seem like

(39:07):
there's anything happening. Now, would you say that, I think
that's real? Dope? If she would to her, yeah, it
is dope, And then it's dope that you stop to
figure out there's nothing going on. Now. What makes you
say that? Well, just because the post that on social
media with her and Nicole's Sanata, right, what weren't they
like holding hands? Wasn't Nicole? No? But sometimes things sometimes
things change, Okay, yeah, look, the third time's the charm. Okay,

(39:30):
that's all I'm gonna say. If you know, you know
the third time is the charm? Um uh yeah, but
that is very big of you, Tory, to to go
up and then respect that. I think some of the
fights in the house at least this season probably could
have been stopped if by yeah, by conversation, because even
the reason was, like, you know, she wished she would
have done things differently, do we believe that that she

(39:51):
would know things different? She did not give a differently
energy at all. She looked beautiful, though she didn't give
it to different She did just made a face. She
didn't I'm sorry. Even the body language and the like
tapping of the foot the whole time she was riled
up and didn't seem to I don't know, but I
also could come off like she was uncomfortable. Yeah, that's
kind of do I answer this? And that's how I

(40:12):
felt too, because there's no malice like she was like
do you think I mean, I genuinely think that that
she's kind of like she's cool about shit, Like you know,
we've had conversations about guys and sex, and I just
think she was kind of uncomfortable too, like, but I
also feel like, and this is no shade to her,
This is just in general when you say you feel

(40:33):
bad after the fact, Wow, that's that's the only thing,
like I And this isn't to her. This is I mean,
I was hooking up a Korey and he had a
whole girlfriend, and I mean that was more his shit
than mine. But don't say sorry to a girlfriend after
just don't do it right, you know what I mean?
Do you like that honest thing that I just said,
I'm very proud. I do. I do. I think she

(40:58):
I think it was a sincerity to what she said.
But here's the reason why I think she genuinely wants
to be Tori's friend. There's something about her that wants
to be Tori's friend, and I think it's a I
think if it was anybody else, there would be no, no, Okay,
whatever I did, it is done, because she has a
very whatever I did, it is done attitude. But I
think because she really wants to be friends with Tor,

(41:19):
I think she was really affected by the way she
hurt Tory. That's what I think I do too, because
I don't think she cares what people say about her
whatever she wants to do, which I I mean, like,
of course everyone does to a yeah, yeah, but in
general no, She's like yeah, I mean just which is
powerful because it takes sometimes years for people to grow

(41:40):
into that feeling. So I really respect that about her.
But I also agree, like her and I have had
awesome conversations post this whole thing happening, and like yeah,
with her and Jordan not actually working out and her
realizing what it was like, Yeah, maybe she I genuinely
believe her. I do think that she was regretful and
I like her me too. She'll be here this evening.
What is that face, Devin. I don't know. I just

(42:02):
don't know how I feel about I don't I do
believe she I believe that she was since here and
what she said to you, Tori, and I do believe
that she wants to be Tori's friend. I believe all
of that. Um, I don't know, just some I'm just
still dissecting it all. And uh, I'm sure when I
see them more seasons than I can, I'll be able
to give my personal analysis. But I don't know. I

(42:23):
just feel like they're not paying extra for that personal
analysis now, and that's why you haven't been matched. And
he said, and I'm kidding, um, because I personal analysis
and data collection. Thank no. I just mean that she
that there were moments that she it was like she
came across as a bit of a dichotomy in the
in the not necessarily not as much in the season

(42:45):
in my opinion, but certainly in the two part reunion
were there are moments that came across almost borderline mean
girl in a way to me. And then the moments
where she came across, Like I do think she was
since here what she shared to you, um Tori, and
so it's really just sort of understand and we can disagree.
That's the whole. I agree, and I can see how
you can see that, But being there and sitting there

(43:07):
and seeing like certain, I mean, I think Raven was
attacking on genuine hurt feelings and that was her motivation.
But you're not gonna call me a hoh that many
times and me not react because then it's like, well, well,
what was wrong with me? But it wasn't just at
the Raven thing. It was just her responses to something,

(43:29):
multiple things. And I agree that guy, Well I was
just talking about the one, the one general thing that
lasted for about an hour of her like that can
set your mood. Oh yeah. So I'm just saying there
are a number of variables that we have to take
into account that affect the way that people hammle themselves,
like people that haven't been in that environment either, like

(43:49):
how do I navigate? Like what do I do with
my backs against the wall? What do I do when
I get these questions? I think it's kind of like
everybody kind of as a deer in the headlights. Everybody's
kind of like, how do I do this? Like, I'm
like us who have done it for so long, we
kind of know how to I think, so I think
that's I think that literally, my trainer would say, like

(44:09):
I always have to get a second opinion to prove
that she was right in the first place. I'm sorry,
but that's the way I understand things is by talking
them out. Okay, so before these weirdos get any weirder,
we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right
back after this. Before these weirdos get any weirder, what

(44:35):
are you gonna say? Day? Oh, I'm just gonna ask
Anisa what was her opinion when Chauncey kind of like
backed her in the corner about the podcast? Wow? Oh well,
I didn't really care that much because one I had
already talked to amber Um and it was like I
was trying to be like fun about shit and like
alluding like things may get a little sneaky, like it

(44:57):
wasn't you know, it wasn't malicious. So once I think
we had Chauncey on the podcast and I explained it
to him, he understood that more. I just think that
he was an easy name to grab because it was like, oh,
well she actually said something like I have evidence so
I could use this, But it was more so of
a her saying like I don't want any of the

(45:20):
Vets to win to I want Nannie to win. I
want everyone to win. I want you know, just like
more of like inconsistencies than like, I never said she
was a bad person, you know what I mean. So
it wasn't like talking about people's gameplay. I don't think
it's a diss. I agree, So this isn't my character analysis.
I think she's a wonderful person. I'm really sweet. It's

(45:43):
we all like have played the game, stupid Tory me.
Everyone has played it not the smartest way, you know.
And I don't think that's a diss. That's on your ship,
like sometimes we mess up. Yeah, and that's all like,
and I'm allowed to have that opinion. Um, and maybe
in that moment, fresh off the season, my feelings may

(46:06):
have been different than they are now. You know, any
knowledge on this alleged group chat, so I mean I
heard of said group chat, but we're still trying to
figure out what it is. Because they even showed me
the group chat. I didn't see anything. Oh, well you
didn't see anything that talked about Olivia. Were in that

(46:29):
group chat? Yeah? Was anything said about Amber? No? So
there is in fact a group chat. There's a group chat,
but there's a ton of group chat, like, yeah, we
have a group chat. We don't even use it. We
really It was like Tory said, f I have to
work with you guys, I don't want to talk to you.
Davon talks to me. Davon talks to me and gives

(46:51):
me like baby little sermons and pumps me up a
little bit. And I don't even get that. I get
I talked to Davon on Twitter because that's what she knows.
I don't. She asked me random questions and then when
I respond, she does not respond back with her answer
of the question. That is the extent different experience over here.
Not to brag, but what has been a great episode.

(47:14):
It's been a great Oh this season, Well, there was
a lot, there was a lot of people, a lot
of things going. I love how they ended it on
a um, you know, a magic Chauncey moment. Uh yeah, him,
not Davon, stop it, Davon, what she's turned on? Those eyes,

(47:40):
those eyes down, We're like, yeah, I could talk liked it.
I am not, And I think that is perfectly okay
because that is somebody else's man. So I should not
be turned on anyway with that one question that's burning.
And since Davon insisted that we ask all the questions.
A few moments ago when we talked about camp syndrome
and being a real thing, and you know that we

(48:02):
know that happened to the episode. I knew it was
coming and Devon agreed, She's like camp syndrome, So that
means she understands that there could be someone in the
house that you're attracted to. Devon, who I forgot would
have been? Who is your camp syndrome person? Tell us
a little bit more about that, please? How is your
I have not done anybody around, but who in your
would who? Whom? You know? What I'm asking what? Who

(48:26):
are you attracted? And the challenge everybody all three of
us have revealed something or acknowledge something. I mean on
ours are on TV. But Devon, who from the Challenged
World Challenged family? Was you know, your camp buddy or
would have been your camp I canna say all the
truth and I'm probably gonna go, I'll kind of flag

(48:47):
for this whatever I'm here, um, not not in present day.
Not not in present day. And I'm gonna say that
because I don't want it to be awkward if I
ever run into this person again. Not in present day,
but once upon a time. You know, Jesus has are
you attracted? No? I had no, Not to Jesus. It's
not even Sunday if you don't go back and tell
her who Okay? Um, oh Jesus, guys, I think my

(49:12):
hip Hello. No, Nope, that's microphone. Don't standard. You can't
hold them to a standard. You can't hold yourself too.
So if you want to talk about it, Jesus, Oh,
y'all don't even y'all don't know him not he goes
to a different school. I hate that wasn't the question.
If you don't answer the question, I don't want to

(49:33):
play Dave bon we have all Nope, Nope, you can't
be weak. You've been You literally just said on this
podcast and called out Tory and Nisa for not answering
questions one question all season and you're not gonna answer. Okay,
so um not the inc On Final Reckoning, which was
my first season, I did. I. I was attracted to Nelson,

(50:00):
but what who? I thought I was gonna be a bitch.
But it was before he started talking. Once we got
a conversation, I was like, oh no, this isn't gonna work.
And then I just love the next time he sees you,
he's gonna no. No, no, no, no, no no no,
there's not a thing. There's nothing. It's not a thing.
Oh but this is this is how we were able

(50:22):
to connect because we're both from Eaglewood. We both would
have conversations about where we grew up at him, her
trying to rationalize it, she has to wow, Devon and Nelson.
Somebody listening put together a mean, that's not the two
of them. Please, I will retweet it. I will post
it across the Devon's walking on stage and he's just
sitting there. Yes, we just got to put him in there.

(50:46):
It's okay. But the no one like the one that
everybody knows about is THEO. Like I thought THEO was attractive,
but then that is fine. That was nowhere. I have
seen him in person, but I think he's attractive. But yeah,
it was Nelson. It was oh yeah, I got so
much camp stuff that y'all don't know about and y'all
never will. And that concludes our podcast. That's out. We

(51:11):
finally got her to answer a question. I feel so
good about it. Now we got to get Davon and
Nelson to get done with you. Devin, relax, we're supposed
to You're supposed to counsel him and match him somewhere else.
I know I wouldn't do that to Nelson, what I mean,

(51:35):
so I love them both very much. This is wow.
I didn't see that coming either. That was not that
was not on the bingo card. I'm glad I have
this time with you, ladies. It has been real. Oh.
I love you guys so much. Sisterhood it is. Yeah.
I think where Rider dies at this point, at this
point four pas in a podcast. Oh you better hold

(51:59):
on to that before better get the rights to that
right now? So so so, Tori. That means you're not
putting me into elimination. I can you imagine if we
were all on a scene together, I know, like, actually
we can't, we actually can't. We have an alliance. I
guess that actually be pretty funny. I imagine me standing
down there. You broke the pea code, broke right like Nelson,

(52:24):
go get your girl right? No, all right, well you listen,
you guys, Davon tell people where they can follow you
and send you beautiful pictures of Nelson. Let's not, let's
let's not. Just just don't send me no pictures of
nobody unlessage Jesus or scriptures. Um you can. You can't

(52:49):
on Twitter at Dave Davon, Underscore, Instagram, day Lion, Diane
Underscore Devin. When we're going to people find you, I
can't even talk. I was waiting for you to say YouTube,
but she didn't say. Wow. You guys can find me
on my website Devin Simone dot com at seven with
a why Simone with an eye. You can also find
me on I g at Devin Simone, TikTok at Devin Simone.

(53:11):
You can also follow me on Amazon, so go to
amazon dot com, slash shop slash Devin Simone. When I'll
give you shout outs there, Torrey, where can they find you?
Clickity clack girl, black ybody else alone? Um, well, you
guys can follow me at Tory Underscore deal and please,
if you like this podcast, rate and review it, send

(53:31):
us some love because you know I read them now so,
but any where can we follow you? That's why you
got that attitude. She was like, we almost forgot our friend. Um,
you guys can follow me. I'll be left in the
background at Anissa MTV on Instagram. I peaked on Twitter
and I didn't find anything that exciting, so I still

(53:53):
don't really deal with it. So you can just find
me on Instagram and yeah, right, and with Lewis, and
you're on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and tell a friend,
tell everyone, and you can catch the Challenge World Championship
start in March eighth on Paramount Plus. Yes, and you
can catch Davon and Nelson if you look really closely,
So keep your eyes out for that and we'll see

(54:15):
you back here right after that for a brand new
episode of MTV's official Challenge podcast, or peas in a
podcast way Out