January 17, 2024 • 31 mins
In this special bonus episode, Matt reaches out to renowned psychic medium Cindy Kaza (Travel Channel; Max). In this episode, she explores Matt’s home, which leads to a haunting discovery in the basement and the apparition of a mother still mourning for her lost child.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Murder Homes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everything has a memory attached, everything pulled memory. So when
people say if these walls could talk, what they literally? Can?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I feed a motor read them.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
If you remember the episode about my house forty fifth Street,
my neighbor Manny told me that, in addition to the
murderer that used to live in my house, he also
saw a blonde eyed, blue eyed ghost child wearing vintage
clothes in the basement while playing video games with Israel,
his best friend who lived here. And that was just
one of the many encounters he and his brothers and
sisters had with a child who was there really a
(00:36):
ghost living in my home? I wanted to find out more,
so I got Israel's number for Manny to find out
if he or his family had any recollection of the
ghost too. This is Murder Holmes. I'm Matt Marinovich.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
The first time my sister saw him and she was
coming home and she was walking up the stairs and
the little boy ran across the stop flight of stairs
when the banister goes into the apartment, and he ran
into the apartment. She went in looking for my little brother,
who looked jumpikes a little boy, but no one was home.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
That's Israel. I managed to catch up with him on
the phone for a moment while he was busy at
work to talk about the ghost he saw in my house.
The reception on the phone wasn't the best, but I
really wanted to know more about what he saw. He
told me it wasn't the only time he saw the
ghost too, is Israel.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Did you see him any other times?
Speaker 6 (01:38):
When we were younger, we had a pool in our
backyards and he would looked out the windows, so he'd
be on the first floor window looking out, and then
he'd be on the second floor window looking out.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
And then Manny said that he saw him watching the
basement with you guys.
Speaker 6 (01:51):
We were playing video games, and when you walked down
the basement stairs, that first door used to be in
my game room. We used to sit in there, me, Manny,
a bunch of our friends and video games, and we
were always either go on the crack because it got
hot in there. We didn't have any he in the basement,
and it looked like my little brother kept looking in
and we're like, yo, go somewhere, you're being annoying, And
(02:13):
my little brother wasn't home. It was a little boy
looking in to see what we were doing.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Were you scared or freaked out or how did you
feel about it?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
The first couple of times, I really honestly was like, oh.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
Maybe I was just see anything. And I remember talking
to Manny and we were kids, so to us it
was like, oh, Peona's playing a joke. As we got older,
my sister started telling me stories about seeing him, because
it was one of.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Those things that I didn't think much of it. As
we got older and we moved out the house, we
would talk about the little boy and I'm like, wait,
I thought I was just see anything.
Speaker 7 (02:46):
My sisters then started telling me stories like I had
an older sister and she said she was sleeping and
she felt someone rubbing her hair, and when she woke up,
he was standing at the edge of the bed.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
I know.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
My brother said one time he was sleeping that my
brother moved into that basement room and his TV went
on and his video games had gone, and then the
minute he turned to look, someone would run out his room.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
So I used to get in trouble because he thought
it was me.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Was there anything else that was strange that you didn't remember.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
In that house? I don't know if you ever hear,
but yeah, also is like an old lady that used
to sing in the basement.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Okay, I used to be in a basement a lot.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
So there's three rooms in the basement.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
So the front room was our hangout room, gaming room,
The middal room was kind of like the junk room.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
In the third room was a boiler room. The mindal
room you would.
Speaker 7 (03:40):
Hear singing it, so it was almost like you wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Even go in that room.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
That's where we kept like our bits, and whenever we
went to get a bike, we wanted someone with us
because we would hear someone singing in the room.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I asked Manny what the lady sounded like, and he
said it sounded like an older lady humming. And there
was much scarier than the boy because they saw the boys,
but they never saw the woman did down.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
Like an older home like someone who was singing a.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Melody, like a pleasant melody, or like a more haunt
like a creaky melodie, not like a sweet I'm trying
to you know, you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
After my conversations with Manny and Israel, I was starting
to worry that I was not only living in a
house previously occupied by a murderer, but a house occupied
by ghosts. And then I made the mistake of telling
my girlfriend Silka, and for the first few days after
the news, she refused to go downstairs with me unless
I accompanied her. I always consider myself a ghost agnostic person,
(04:37):
but my mind started playing tricks on me a bit.
What if I looked up the stairs and the kid
was standing there staring at me? So I contacted Cindy Kasa,
whose voice you heard at the beginning of this episode.
Cindy is a psychic medium who is best known for
her work on Travel Channels, The Dead Files, The Holtzer Files,
and Ghost of Devil's Perch. She agreed to come by
(04:58):
the house and tell me what she saw. I asked
my two producers, Jab and Evan to help record, and
my girlfriend Silka, who is a scientist and skeptical of
anything related to ghost decided to tag along out of curiosity.
I didn't really know how Cindy liked to work, so
once she arrived, we asked her what a process was
like and how she usually liked to start. Here's what
(05:19):
you told us.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Usually when I come to a location where people are
claiming that there's paranormal activity. I don't like to really
know anything that's actually better, and then I just see
naturally what comes in, so I kind of will get
pulled to wherever I'm getting pulled. I do something called
psychometry sometimes too, which is when you can touch an
object or a wall or the land and you can
(05:42):
see the psychic imprinting of memories left behind on it.
So it's about also interpreting whether or not the haunting
is actually intelligent, meaning people are having intelligent interactions with
the spirit that's really present, or if it's the energetic
imprint left behind.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
In this case, I feel like it's active.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But I'll just say like sometimes if there's a huge
imprint left behind in a location, people might see a
spirit walking in the same location, back and forth all
the time, in the same spot, and so my question
is why would a spirit stay in the same spot
for eternity. So a lot of times when people experience that,
it's actually an energetic imprint or memory left behind, So
(06:23):
it could be a number of things happening.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The other part of it is the person or people
that live here. Are you open? Are you not open?
Do you have natural gifts.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So we'll get into that because a lot of times,
you know, people that are super open and naturally tapped
into the spirit world, even if they don't really try
to be that energy can call in spirits and they're
not all necessarily from this location. So I always say
(06:51):
a medium, think of it like a lighthouse in the
middle of the ocean, and all the spirits are like,
I'm going there, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I asked Cindy if she preferred to stay quiet while
she did her work, or if we could ask our questions.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I would rather just kind of go through and see
what I'm seeing and then ask me questions if I
have a break. The thing that gets a little bit
frustrating is if I'm in the middle of sensing something,
if a question comes at me, it kind of shoots.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Me out of it.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Cindy told us that she usually has an immediate feeling
about a place when she steps in through the door,
and thankfully my home was not giving her bad vibes.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It doesn't feel negative. It doesn't at all. So it's
not like I would say you need to move out
of here.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
It's not that at all. Look, I want to show
where yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I have to tell people like should you say or
should you go? And I'll be honest with you, like
sometimes it feels so ridiculous and telling somebody they need
to move.
Speaker 8 (07:43):
Out of their home, But I mean it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Happens where people have so much activity and so much drama.
It literally is tearing a family apart, and it's a problem.
But most of the time it's not that traumatic, and
I don't feel that here.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I asked Cindy about the worst home she ever encountered.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So I work for a Discovery Child channel, so they
put me on a serial killer run from Think a
few things. So we investigated Danny Rolling the Gainesville Rippert.
The two our specials is called Scream the True Story.
What a lot of people don't know is the Scream franchise,
the movies. They were loosely based on the life of
(08:21):
the serial killer. So we went to investigate near the
university where he killed.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
A bunch of people, and then we went to his
childhood home. And for me, it was really scary.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
One because when I was connecting in with his energy,
his emotions, his thoughts, I felt like I was being
really manipulated, like a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Or a sociopath with manipulating, because there was this one.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Part where I was like, oh my gosh, I have
so much empathy for this guy because he was abused
and I know he did this.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I was really getting kind.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Of swept away in that part of it, and then
the next moment it switched to this rage, and so
I had felt like I had no control over what
was happening in my own mind. Right, I felt vulnerable,
And cases like that are psychological, right, it gets in
your mind in lingers, right, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Felt like I was pushed by ghosts. Like that's honestly
never happened to me. It did, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I generally believe that I'm protected. I don't go into
anything from a place of fear, and I think that
case made me a little bit more cautious though the
energies that I'm tapping into.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
We also asked Cindy about where she had boy as
the murderer. His presence was something I worried about, to
be honest, a lot more than the child ghost, and
we wanted to know if that's something she could also
sense even if he didn't die here.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So in this case, because initially I'm like oh, it
doesn't feel bad here.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
What I could pick up on is.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The energetic imprint left behind or the psychic imprint left
behind of that person living here. I don't feel that
the spirit of the murderers here. That's not how it
comes through to me. But everything has a memory attached
to it. Everything holds memory. But I don't feel that
negative energy here.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I asked Cindy how being a medium works, how she
taps into these ghosts and energies.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I always describe mediumship like playing a game of pictionary,
trades and telephone all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I see, which is called clairvoyance.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's like if you were to think of an image
of your loved one in your minds.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So most of the time it's through imagery. If you
have dreams or.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Visions of things with pictures like a movie playing in
your head, it's very much through pictures and seeing. I hear,
which is called Claire audience, but it's usually not external
auditory like you're hearing me seek to you now, like
if you were to sing the words to your favorite
song in your head.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I can feel, which is called Claire sentience.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So people that are empaths that feel the emotions of spirits,
like I could feel if a spirit was angry, right.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And then there's another clare called clar cognizance, which is
the knowing.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So sometimes you just stand in front of them, but
you just know something about them.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
You're like, how did I know that? So sometimes people
smell things.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's old factory, so you might smell cigarette smoke, perfume, whatever,
and some people taste There's all these different ways that
mediums and psychics receive information, and one spirit can give
you several different pieces of information using several different players.
It's about understanding how to interpret all of these pieces
that might feel scattered or might feel like they're not
(11:48):
connected or random, and actually.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
They are connected.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So all things to kind of pay attention to when
you're living in a location that has activity.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
If you were in a room in the house, for example.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Where the killer lives, and you go in that room
and you start to feel angry or aggressive or anxious,
it just could be the imprinting left behind the energy
of the emotions that he felt when he was in
the room. If you start to feel crazy, if you
start to feel dizzy, areas in a home where there
(12:21):
might be a heavy residual. You can literally walk into
them and you start to feel different.
Speaker 8 (12:26):
How do you discern just the anxiety of that versus
the imprinting.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, so it's tricky, right because you already know that
he lived there.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So I would say if you felt that way without
knowing he lived there, and you went into that room
before you had this information, and every time you went
in you were feeling not like yourself, anxious, stressed, that
would be something.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
To look at.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
We'll be back after a short break. We're back with
murder homes, thankfully. Cindy says, you didn't feel rare, she'd baz,
but you definitely did feel the presence of something. So
(13:14):
I decided to take her down to the basement first,
since it was where Manny and Israel said they saw
the ghost child and where Israel had heard the creepy
old woman humming. Okay, when we got to the basement,
Cindy says, she immediately felt something.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Okay, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So this is one unit right like this, But did
it used to be two units where it was converted? Okay,
So it used to be a lot bigger, right, and
now it's smaller. So there's something from the way it
used to be, like the energy from the past that's
leading into your space.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It's bleeding into yours.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
But there's a reason for that, because I'm trying to
go back in time and see it's like, do you
know where the original kitchen used to be?
Speaker 9 (14:11):
There's a kitchen upstairs where we are a kitchen, and
they also a kitchen on the second floor down.
Speaker 8 (14:15):
Here, it was just like a toilet kind of situation
and it cooked.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Do they cook down here though?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Ever? That's what it is because I feel like it's
down here, but there's a kitchen, so there must have
been cooking that happens down here.
Speaker 8 (14:27):
Where you're staying with one room and this would be
another one.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Because I keep feeling like.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Like I'm going back to Ireland, like the time of
their Irish servants that would be in homes, you know,
against their will really and they were weren't treated well.
So I feel like there's a connection to that history here. Okay,
So there must have been a woman here that was
working here that was a maid or I don't even
(14:56):
like saying made because she feels more like she's like, no,
I was a servant, like made, being polite and I
feel like she is actually present in this location.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
She's not mean, but.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
She shows me she likes to look after the kids,
so she must have been like a nanny too, so
I know that she loves children, so that's part of
the reason she's here too. There's that piece of her
that wants to be around babies and kids. And I'm
smelling do you ever smell food cooking when nobody's cooking?
Or there's a name that I'm hearing. It's Elizabeth, So
(15:33):
sometimes I don't know how it's connected.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I'm just gonna give it to you. It's like I
hear Elizabeth clearly.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
But I also feel like this woman, like I see
a child, a boy, a little boy that is standing
directly next to her.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So there's the woman and then there's a little boy.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
She's watching out for him. That's why she's here, because
he's here and she has to take care of him.
That's at least the sense I get. And I don't
know how he passed away yet, quite sure. I think
he's sick, Like I don't think he's murdered or anything
like that. I think he just gets really really ill
and passes away and super sweet like energy. But also
(16:11):
a little bit confused. You know, it's like what am
what am I doing here?
Speaker 9 (16:15):
You know? Interesting because the room you're standing. So I
talked to the guy who lives in Florida and now
who lived here for years and played here. It was
a child here, you know, And so they did say
there was three rooms in the room you're the area
you're standing would have been in the middle room. And
it's the one place that really freaks him out because
you could hear a woman humming.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Fanny, that's nice, just like the nanny humming to humming.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Not like a happy.
Speaker 9 (16:42):
Or he said, more ponting or more of the things.
That that was the thing that scared him the most.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, but she's not She's not mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think it's more like I would say sad is
a better word, you know, when you're forced to have
to be somewhere away from your family and you're not
really treated very well. But she found so much joy
in looking after kids. I don't even think that she
knew this little boy necessarily in life. But if you
can imagine these aspects of the spirits being here and
(17:14):
they see each other, and she feels like she has
a purpose to be here.
Speaker 8 (17:18):
It's interesting just because that phone call today.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
At that moment, I also remember that my daughter, many
years ago, had drawn a picture of an old woman
and pinned it up on the post right where Cindy
was standing. My daughter had never really explained to me why,
but I had kept it up there out of nostalgia.
I pointed this out to Cindy.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Oh, I was a woman.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Did she just draw it?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Oh, it's super interesting. That's weird.
Speaker 8 (17:44):
It's funny, right, you know that's been there since they
were like seven or eight.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Any of your kids ever say they saw spirits or some.
Speaker 9 (17:54):
Spirits around them, not only that they didn't like the
upstairs okay small, but they didn't here or see anything.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It was then that Cindy also turned to Silka, my girlfriend,
the skeptical scientist, and told her that she believed she
had intuitive gifts.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Also, Wow, it's like, I don't know if it's because
you're I mean, I think you're super open intuitively, just
saying open to spirits.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
But also now I'm like, now I'm here, I'm like,
are they all coming in? Because I literally just saw
this man walk through the wall. You're not going to
see him don't worry. It's like in my mind, but
I feel like he died from a heroin overdose. But
I don't think he's from this building. I think he's
like really close by here and he's just you have
like spirits that kind of come and go.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It's like a train station, you know.
Speaker 9 (18:44):
And I can tell you also, let the guy died
of HIV aid's back in eighty six.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
His furniture still in there and it's empty since he died.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Oh my gosh, Okay, interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I think we came down here to feel into that woman, right,
that's an important piece and the little boy. That's why
she's here, right, So just so you know, she's not
here to harm anyone. She's here to look after the
little boy in the spirit world, so he doesn't feel alone.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I don't know that they need each other.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
But honestly, the year that I'm seeing that's significant is
like I feel like I'm like eighteen eighty eight. There's
some connection there, but again not one hundred percent. My
feeling is she didn't know him in the living and
that they connected in the spirit world. Here.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
We'll be back after a short break. We're back with
murder Homes. I led Cindy and the rest of the
group up the basement steps to the second floor.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I saw in my mind's eye a woman wearing a black.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Dress, and you know, it's like she went to a funeral, like.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
She's mourning the death of if it's the mother of
the boy. I'm trying to sense it, Like I just
see her wearing this black dress. There's just so much
deep grief. There's a lot of prayer. It's not the
same woman as downstairs, right, It's totally different woman. And
she's making me feel again like I'm feeling her emotions
(20:19):
just so sad, so depressed, deep grief the loss of
her child. But then I also feel like her husband
died too, like she lost everyone.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
That's how I feel.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
She's just kind of stuck here by herself. But this
is going back sometime.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Is that the room?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't I don't feel
his energy here.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
This is before that, Like I don't know what this
feels like. I don't know how old is this building.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Okay, so it's like back to that time and then
maybe in nineteen twenties too.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
It's hard. Timelines are a little bit after.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Not from the guy I'll go in there and see her.
They don't feel him.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
But I see the woman from the Dass morning looking
out the window, like I just see her staring out
the window.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So when you're outside, do I ever see people looking
out the window?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Or has anybody ever claimed to see spirits in the
windows when they're not inside.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
When City asked me that, I immedately thought of Israel's
story about seeing the ghost child staring out the window
when they were in the pool. I was about to
tell her about it, but she asked me to pause
because she was sensing something else.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And then I just heard a tea kettle going off, right,
it's this whole it's interesting, like it started whistling. I
feel like I'm brought back to the time where it's
like tea time, high teeth, and I feel like there's
like a woman here that was part of a wealthy.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Family now in that room.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So that's a bedroom I keep seeing in that room.
It feels more of an imprint of a businessman. I
feel like he would have been somebody that had like
high status, right or I see all this banking and
money and obviously well to do people knew this man?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Sometimes they hear names.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm just going to say it. It's like I heard Rogers.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Maybe it's a last name or Roger or something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
It's not bad. None of it's bad. I'm like, I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
To sift through, like even the woman in the black,
but I do feel like she is here. Do I
sense anything about the murderer that lived there? I literally don't.
It's like, doesn't hit me that way.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I don't feel afraid. I don't even.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Really sense it as being like part of the activity here,
So I wouldn't worry about that so much. Sometimes the
stories that were told that make us like freak out.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Next we popped in the bedroom I share with Silka,
and City says something that both Silka and I found
rather alarming.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Is this your bedroom?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Do anything bad here? Except I will say this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I feel like, again, the woman who worked here, who
is part of working here, checks in on you. I
don't know if you've ever felt like somebody's watching you
when you're sleeping a woman, But it's not bad, just
kind of checking in. Was there a fire here at
some point?
Speaker 8 (23:07):
I know, was it some kind of small fire? Because
I saw old charred bricks in the basement.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, because it just smelled smoke. Something happened here,
even if it's a small fire, there's an imprint left
behind for that. But what I would say is like,
when I'm kind of tapping into the space, be careful
of water leaking, water damage in here.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, oh okay, that's why I like, why am I
seeing that? So it was literally in here?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, Yeah, you just have to keep an eye on that. Look,
the spirits of the house want the house to be
kept in order, so they will help you see that.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Yeah, they wouldn't be angry if it was not kept.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I mean, they don't like it when people don't take
care of their house. But I don't sense that in
this particular case. Okay, yeah, yeah, it's nothing negative.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
You know, I keep seeing a horse. You know how
people had horse and buggies. It's that time period, you know.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
I mean, it's really old. It's old old fashion wallpaper.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Interesting. We go back downstairs and oh, by the way
back to you though, Well.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
We're going to talk about.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
At this point again, Sinney looked at Sika to make
the point that she was extremely open to attracting spirits
you're more.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Open, I think than anything.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, it's a sensing spirits to attracting spirits
in so remember I said, a mediums something that's open.
It's like a lighthouse, and the Middle Osian it's like that.
So they see you, they know that you can sense them,
so they're like, I'm going there because I'm scientists.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So yeah, I wouldn't say believe in that kind of
things if you cannot see it all matter it or
if there's no data about it. Yeah, but have you
had experiences No, not in a sense that I remembered
you know that I saw something, But did you ever
feel anything? I have dreams of loved ones that have died, yes,
(25:12):
but I thought it's a normal thing to have, like
dreams about the people. It can be.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
But I'll ask you this the visitation dreams. So after
people die, a really common experience is people have very
vivid dreams where the loved one who's passed away comes in.
You wake up and you're like, wow, that was a
different kind of dream. I really felt like my loved
one was there.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And Stilka admitted something that surprised even me. She had
frequently had dreams like this.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yes, I considered it like a normal thing to happen
like many years later.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
And you still remember that dream today very like clearly. Yeah,
Because if it's.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
A you know, a lot of fun who had died
many years before unexpected.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
In my world, that's a visitation dream from the spirits.
Can't something that's every person who die then like.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Leaves the spirit behind. Because everyone also has a history.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It doesn't mean that every spirit of everyone that ever
lived here and die.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
So this is what I think.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Look, I can't claim to know that I understand everything
that's going on in the other world. I believe everything's energy, right.
I believe there's a soul. I believe that if there's
a trauma, there's a fragments, and it's an opportunity as
a medium to sit with these parts of the soul
that maybe have pragvented, that want to be reintegrated to
(26:32):
the oneness or whatever.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You want to call it, to have a conversation with them.
So do I think that every soul is trapped.
Speaker 8 (26:39):
In a location?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I mean you would think of all the souls I
probably should be picking up on the murder, but I
don't sense them at all.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I don't sense them like as single. I'm like, no,
he's not here, That's not what I'm sensing.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I told Sinny that this was a relief because of
all the creepy things that it happened in my house,
it was Rashid Boza's presence that haunted me the most.
At this point, I asked Cindy if I could tell
her what Israel and Manny had told me about the ghost,
and she said it was fine since she was down
exploring the house. I told her it was uncanny that
she'd placed the woman in the exact place where Israel
(27:16):
and his family heard the haunting humming. She'd also nail
the memory Israel had of the ghost looking out the window,
which I knew would have me looking over my shoulder
the next time I watered the grass. I also told
her that I never fully believed in ghosts because I
had never experienced it myself, but that I'd asked Israel
about it and he said he'd felt the same way,
and then he experienced it and he just knew it
(27:38):
was a real thing.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
And that's how it is.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Look, I've been doing this for quite some time, and
I tell people you kind of have to have your
own experience to fully believe it, because I can tell
you holding along what I'm sensing and what I believe,
but until you actually feel it, it's kind of ineffable, right.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I asked Cindy if there was anything we could do
living around this house with all these ghosts, the idea
which was starting to freak me out, especially the woman
watching over us in the bedroom when we.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Sleep, you could just say hi to them, like Hi,
thank you for being here, thank you for looking after
our home, because that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Especially the woman downstairs.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I strongly feel like when she was here, she was
made servants, and so she's used to looking after the space,
so that's what she does.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Make her a cup of tea. Maybe you're drinking tea
in the morning or coffee and then looking weird, but
just like, put a little extra tea.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
The name Elizabeth came in really, really strong, so maybe
I think that's her name.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Just say Elizabeth.
Speaker 8 (28:41):
I like that name. Soka's name a child jack finding
too trendy.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Okay, whatever you do, edit hear his name Elizabeth. See
the name came to you? Okay? Did you really come
to you? Yeah? I remember, I said sometimes you just
know things I didn't exist that I've thought of.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I mean, that's Larry hogpisence when you're like, oh it
just landed in my brain?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
How did that get here?
Speaker 8 (29:11):
Cindy, do you feel she is more open to spirits
than I am?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I think you're both open. Okay, it's like this.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
If it feels too weird to be like, oh, I
send spirits, it's like, maybe.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
You just have a heightened sense. Let's call it an intuition.
Let's call it I trust my gut.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Let's say you can sense things about people, and you're
really good at reading people, like you know when somebody's
bs highly intuitive?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Does that feel better than talking to spirits?
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Look it's all connected.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
After our encounter with Cindy, I still wasn't sure that
Washid Baz's spirit wasn't haunting the house quite honestly, And
now Cindy had added two new ghosts to the picture,
Elizabeth and the morning lady wearing the black clothes on
the second floor. Now, sil can I both fall asleep
with a somewhat disconcerting feeling that a grieving woman and
he's watching us. I've plugged in all the old night
(30:03):
lights I used to use when the kids were little
and leave the downstairs light on. And what about Jack, Well,
apparently he likes to go on vacation too. On a
recent trip to Maine, we stayed at a quaint airbnb,
which seemed just fine until I pulled back the bedroom
door and saw a black and white photo of a
blond haired, blue eyed boy eerily smiling at me. When
(30:24):
I told Silka, she told me I just ruined her night.
We made up over dinner, a towel neatly placed over
the photograph on the wall between you and me. Silka
is going to have to get used to this, especially
since Cindy says she's a medium now. And if you're
listening to this and you think you've seen or heard
something unusual in your home, take Cindy's advice and keep
an open mind. It might just be worth finding out
(30:46):
what ghosts might be living with you or watching you
when you sleep. This is Murder Holmes. I'm Matt Mrinovitch.
(31:09):
Murder Holmes is created by and executive producer by Matt Marinovich.
Executive producers are Jennifer Bassett and Taylor Chicogne. Story editor
is Jennifer Bassett. Supervising producer is Carl Ktel. Producer is
Evan Tyer. Thanks to Nicholas Harder for sound design and editing.
Special thanks to Ali Perry and Nikkiatore. Murder Holmes is
(31:33):
the production of iHeart Podcasts. For more shows from iHeart Podcasts,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Murder Homes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Everything has a memory attached, everything pulled memory. So when
people say if these walls could talk, what they literally? Can?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I feed a motor read them.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
If you remember the episode about my house forty fifth Street,
my neighbor Manny told me that, in addition to the
murderer that used to live in my house, he also
saw a blonde eyed, blue eyed ghost child wearing vintage
clothes in the basement while playing video games with Israel,
his best friend who lived here. And that was just
one of the many encounters he and his brothers and
sisters had with a child who was there really a
(00:36):
ghost living in my home? I wanted to find out more,
so I got Israel's number for Manny to find out
if he or his family had any recollection of the
ghost too. This is Murder Holmes. I'm Matt Marinovich.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
The first time my sister saw him and she was
coming home and she was walking up the stairs and
the little boy ran across the stop flight of stairs
when the banister goes into the apartment, and he ran
into the apartment. She went in looking for my little brother,
who looked jumpikes a little boy, but no one was home.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
That's Israel. I managed to catch up with him on
the phone for a moment while he was busy at
work to talk about the ghost he saw in my house.
The reception on the phone wasn't the best, but I
really wanted to know more about what he saw. He
told me it wasn't the only time he saw the
ghost too, is Israel.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Did you see him any other times?
Speaker 6 (01:38):
When we were younger, we had a pool in our
backyards and he would looked out the windows, so he'd
be on the first floor window looking out, and then
he'd be on the second floor window looking out.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
And then Manny said that he saw him watching the
basement with you guys.
Speaker 6 (01:51):
We were playing video games, and when you walked down
the basement stairs, that first door used to be in
my game room. We used to sit in there, me, Manny,
a bunch of our friends and video games, and we
were always either go on the crack because it got
hot in there. We didn't have any he in the basement,
and it looked like my little brother kept looking in
and we're like, yo, go somewhere, you're being annoying, And
(02:13):
my little brother wasn't home. It was a little boy
looking in to see what we were doing.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Were you scared or freaked out or how did you
feel about it?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
The first couple of times, I really honestly was like, oh.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
Maybe I was just see anything. And I remember talking
to Manny and we were kids, so to us it
was like, oh, Peona's playing a joke. As we got older,
my sister started telling me stories about seeing him, because
it was one of.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Those things that I didn't think much of it. As
we got older and we moved out the house, we
would talk about the little boy and I'm like, wait,
I thought I was just see anything.
Speaker 7 (02:46):
My sisters then started telling me stories like I had
an older sister and she said she was sleeping and
she felt someone rubbing her hair, and when she woke up,
he was standing at the edge of the bed.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
I know.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
My brother said one time he was sleeping that my
brother moved into that basement room and his TV went
on and his video games had gone, and then the
minute he turned to look, someone would run out his room.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
So I used to get in trouble because he thought
it was me.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Was there anything else that was strange that you didn't remember.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
In that house? I don't know if you ever hear,
but yeah, also is like an old lady that used
to sing in the basement.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Okay, I used to be in a basement a lot.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
So there's three rooms in the basement.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
So the front room was our hangout room, gaming room,
The middal room was kind of like the junk room.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
In the third room was a boiler room. The mindal
room you would.
Speaker 7 (03:40):
Hear singing it, so it was almost like you wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Even go in that room.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
That's where we kept like our bits, and whenever we
went to get a bike, we wanted someone with us
because we would hear someone singing in the room.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I asked Manny what the lady sounded like, and he
said it sounded like an older lady humming. And there
was much scarier than the boy because they saw the boys,
but they never saw the woman did down.
Speaker 7 (04:02):
Like an older home like someone who was singing a.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Melody, like a pleasant melody, or like a more haunt
like a creaky melodie, not like a sweet I'm trying
to you know, you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
After my conversations with Manny and Israel, I was starting
to worry that I was not only living in a
house previously occupied by a murderer, but a house occupied
by ghosts. And then I made the mistake of telling
my girlfriend Silka, and for the first few days after
the news, she refused to go downstairs with me unless
I accompanied her. I always consider myself a ghost agnostic person,
(04:37):
but my mind started playing tricks on me a bit.
What if I looked up the stairs and the kid
was standing there staring at me? So I contacted Cindy Kasa,
whose voice you heard at the beginning of this episode.
Cindy is a psychic medium who is best known for
her work on Travel Channels, The Dead Files, The Holtzer Files,
and Ghost of Devil's Perch. She agreed to come by
(04:58):
the house and tell me what she saw. I asked
my two producers, Jab and Evan to help record, and
my girlfriend Silka, who is a scientist and skeptical of
anything related to ghost decided to tag along out of curiosity.
I didn't really know how Cindy liked to work, so
once she arrived, we asked her what a process was
like and how she usually liked to start. Here's what
(05:19):
you told us.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Usually when I come to a location where people are
claiming that there's paranormal activity. I don't like to really
know anything that's actually better, and then I just see
naturally what comes in, so I kind of will get
pulled to wherever I'm getting pulled. I do something called
psychometry sometimes too, which is when you can touch an
object or a wall or the land and you can
(05:42):
see the psychic imprinting of memories left behind on it.
So it's about also interpreting whether or not the haunting
is actually intelligent, meaning people are having intelligent interactions with
the spirit that's really present, or if it's the energetic
imprint left behind.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
In this case, I feel like it's active.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But I'll just say like sometimes if there's a huge
imprint left behind in a location, people might see a
spirit walking in the same location, back and forth all
the time, in the same spot, and so my question
is why would a spirit stay in the same spot
for eternity. So a lot of times when people experience that,
it's actually an energetic imprint or memory left behind, So
(06:23):
it could be a number of things happening.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The other part of it is the person or people
that live here. Are you open? Are you not open?
Do you have natural gifts.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So we'll get into that because a lot of times,
you know, people that are super open and naturally tapped
into the spirit world, even if they don't really try
to be that energy can call in spirits and they're
not all necessarily from this location. So I always say
(06:51):
a medium, think of it like a lighthouse in the
middle of the ocean, and all the spirits are like,
I'm going there, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I asked Cindy if she preferred to stay quiet while
she did her work, or if we could ask our questions.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I would rather just kind of go through and see
what I'm seeing and then ask me questions if I
have a break. The thing that gets a little bit
frustrating is if I'm in the middle of sensing something,
if a question comes at me, it kind of shoots.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Me out of it.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Cindy told us that she usually has an immediate feeling
about a place when she steps in through the door,
and thankfully my home was not giving her bad vibes.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It doesn't feel negative. It doesn't at all. So it's
not like I would say you need to move out
of here.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
It's not that at all. Look, I want to show
where yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I have to tell people like should you say or
should you go? And I'll be honest with you, like
sometimes it feels so ridiculous and telling somebody they need
to move.
Speaker 8 (07:43):
Out of their home, But I mean it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Happens where people have so much activity and so much drama.
It literally is tearing a family apart, and it's a problem.
But most of the time it's not that traumatic, and
I don't feel that here.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I asked Cindy about the worst home she ever encountered.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So I work for a Discovery Child channel, so they
put me on a serial killer run from Think a
few things. So we investigated Danny Rolling the Gainesville Rippert.
The two our specials is called Scream the True Story.
What a lot of people don't know is the Scream franchise,
the movies. They were loosely based on the life of
(08:21):
the serial killer. So we went to investigate near the
university where he killed.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
A bunch of people, and then we went to his
childhood home. And for me, it was really scary.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
One because when I was connecting in with his energy,
his emotions, his thoughts, I felt like I was being
really manipulated, like a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Or a sociopath with manipulating, because there was this one.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Part where I was like, oh my gosh, I have
so much empathy for this guy because he was abused
and I know he did this.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I was really getting kind.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Of swept away in that part of it, and then
the next moment it switched to this rage, and so
I had felt like I had no control over what
was happening in my own mind. Right, I felt vulnerable,
And cases like that are psychological, right, it gets in
your mind in lingers, right, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Felt like I was pushed by ghosts. Like that's honestly
never happened to me. It did, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I generally believe that I'm protected. I don't go into
anything from a place of fear, and I think that
case made me a little bit more cautious though the
energies that I'm tapping into.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
We also asked Cindy about where she had boy as
the murderer. His presence was something I worried about, to
be honest, a lot more than the child ghost, and
we wanted to know if that's something she could also
sense even if he didn't die here.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So in this case, because initially I'm like oh, it
doesn't feel bad here.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
What I could pick up on is.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The energetic imprint left behind or the psychic imprint left
behind of that person living here. I don't feel that
the spirit of the murderers here. That's not how it
comes through to me. But everything has a memory attached
to it. Everything holds memory. But I don't feel that
negative energy here.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I asked Cindy how being a medium works, how she
taps into these ghosts and energies.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I always describe mediumship like playing a game of pictionary,
trades and telephone all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I see, which is called clairvoyance.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's like if you were to think of an image
of your loved one in your minds.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So most of the time it's through imagery. If you
have dreams or.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Visions of things with pictures like a movie playing in
your head, it's very much through pictures and seeing. I hear,
which is called Claire audience, but it's usually not external
auditory like you're hearing me seek to you now, like
if you were to sing the words to your favorite
song in your head.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I can feel, which is called Claire sentience.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So people that are empaths that feel the emotions of spirits,
like I could feel if a spirit was angry, right.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And then there's another clare called clar cognizance, which is
the knowing.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So sometimes you just stand in front of them, but
you just know something about them.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
You're like, how did I know that? So sometimes people
smell things.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's old factory, so you might smell cigarette smoke, perfume, whatever,
and some people taste There's all these different ways that
mediums and psychics receive information, and one spirit can give
you several different pieces of information using several different players.
It's about understanding how to interpret all of these pieces
that might feel scattered or might feel like they're not
(11:48):
connected or random, and actually.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
They are connected.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So all things to kind of pay attention to when
you're living in a location that has activity.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
If you were in a room in the house, for example.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Where the killer lives, and you go in that room
and you start to feel angry or aggressive or anxious,
it just could be the imprinting left behind the energy
of the emotions that he felt when he was in
the room. If you start to feel crazy, if you
start to feel dizzy, areas in a home where there
(12:21):
might be a heavy residual. You can literally walk into
them and you start to feel different.
Speaker 8 (12:26):
How do you discern just the anxiety of that versus
the imprinting.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, so it's tricky, right because you already know that
he lived there.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So I would say if you felt that way without
knowing he lived there, and you went into that room
before you had this information, and every time you went
in you were feeling not like yourself, anxious, stressed, that
would be something.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
To look at.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
We'll be back after a short break. We're back with
murder homes, thankfully. Cindy says, you didn't feel rare, she'd baz,
but you definitely did feel the presence of something. So
(13:14):
I decided to take her down to the basement first,
since it was where Manny and Israel said they saw
the ghost child and where Israel had heard the creepy
old woman humming. Okay, when we got to the basement,
Cindy says, she immediately felt something.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Okay, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So this is one unit right like this, But did
it used to be two units where it was converted? Okay,
So it used to be a lot bigger, right, and
now it's smaller. So there's something from the way it
used to be, like the energy from the past that's
leading into your space.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It's bleeding into yours.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
But there's a reason for that, because I'm trying to
go back in time and see it's like, do you
know where the original kitchen used to be?
Speaker 9 (14:11):
There's a kitchen upstairs where we are a kitchen, and
they also a kitchen on the second floor down.
Speaker 8 (14:15):
Here, it was just like a toilet kind of situation
and it cooked.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Do they cook down here though?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Ever? That's what it is because I feel like it's
down here, but there's a kitchen, so there must have
been cooking that happens down here.
Speaker 8 (14:27):
Where you're staying with one room and this would be
another one.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Because I keep feeling like.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Like I'm going back to Ireland, like the time of
their Irish servants that would be in homes, you know,
against their will really and they were weren't treated well.
So I feel like there's a connection to that history here. Okay,
So there must have been a woman here that was
working here that was a maid or I don't even
(14:56):
like saying made because she feels more like she's like, no,
I was a servant, like made, being polite and I
feel like she is actually present in this location.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
She's not mean, but.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
She shows me she likes to look after the kids,
so she must have been like a nanny too, so
I know that she loves children, so that's part of
the reason she's here too. There's that piece of her
that wants to be around babies and kids. And I'm
smelling do you ever smell food cooking when nobody's cooking?
Or there's a name that I'm hearing. It's Elizabeth, So
(15:33):
sometimes I don't know how it's connected.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I'm just gonna give it to you. It's like I
hear Elizabeth clearly.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
But I also feel like this woman, like I see
a child, a boy, a little boy that is standing
directly next to her.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So there's the woman and then there's a little boy.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
She's watching out for him. That's why she's here, because
he's here and she has to take care of him.
That's at least the sense I get. And I don't
know how he passed away yet, quite sure. I think
he's sick, Like I don't think he's murdered or anything
like that. I think he just gets really really ill
and passes away and super sweet like energy. But also
(16:11):
a little bit confused. You know, it's like what am
what am I doing here?
Speaker 9 (16:15):
You know? Interesting because the room you're standing. So I
talked to the guy who lives in Florida and now
who lived here for years and played here. It was
a child here, you know, And so they did say
there was three rooms in the room you're the area
you're standing would have been in the middle room. And
it's the one place that really freaks him out because
you could hear a woman humming.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Fanny, that's nice, just like the nanny humming to humming.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Not like a happy.
Speaker 9 (16:42):
Or he said, more ponting or more of the things.
That that was the thing that scared him the most.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, but she's not She's not mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I think it's more like I would say sad is
a better word, you know, when you're forced to have
to be somewhere away from your family and you're not
really treated very well. But she found so much joy
in looking after kids. I don't even think that she
knew this little boy necessarily in life. But if you
can imagine these aspects of the spirits being here and
(17:14):
they see each other, and she feels like she has
a purpose to be here.
Speaker 8 (17:18):
It's interesting just because that phone call today.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
At that moment, I also remember that my daughter, many
years ago, had drawn a picture of an old woman
and pinned it up on the post right where Cindy
was standing. My daughter had never really explained to me why,
but I had kept it up there out of nostalgia.
I pointed this out to Cindy.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Oh, I was a woman.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Did she just draw it?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Oh, it's super interesting. That's weird.
Speaker 8 (17:44):
It's funny, right, you know that's been there since they
were like seven or eight.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Any of your kids ever say they saw spirits or some.
Speaker 9 (17:54):
Spirits around them, not only that they didn't like the
upstairs okay small, but they didn't here or see anything.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It was then that Cindy also turned to Silka, my girlfriend,
the skeptical scientist, and told her that she believed she
had intuitive gifts.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Also, Wow, it's like, I don't know if it's because
you're I mean, I think you're super open intuitively, just
saying open to spirits.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
But also now I'm like, now I'm here, I'm like,
are they all coming in? Because I literally just saw
this man walk through the wall. You're not going to
see him don't worry. It's like in my mind, but
I feel like he died from a heroin overdose. But
I don't think he's from this building. I think he's
like really close by here and he's just you have
like spirits that kind of come and go.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It's like a train station, you know.
Speaker 9 (18:44):
And I can tell you also, let the guy died
of HIV aid's back in eighty six.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
His furniture still in there and it's empty since he died.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Oh my gosh, Okay, interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I think we came down here to feel into that woman, right,
that's an important piece and the little boy. That's why
she's here, right, So just so you know, she's not
here to harm anyone. She's here to look after the
little boy in the spirit world, so he doesn't feel alone.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I don't know that they need each other.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
But honestly, the year that I'm seeing that's significant is
like I feel like I'm like eighteen eighty eight. There's
some connection there, but again not one hundred percent. My
feeling is she didn't know him in the living and
that they connected in the spirit world. Here.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
We'll be back after a short break. We're back with
murder Homes. I led Cindy and the rest of the
group up the basement steps to the second floor.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I saw in my mind's eye a woman wearing a black.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Dress, and you know, it's like she went to a funeral, like.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
She's mourning the death of if it's the mother of
the boy. I'm trying to sense it, Like I just
see her wearing this black dress. There's just so much
deep grief. There's a lot of prayer. It's not the
same woman as downstairs, right, It's totally different woman. And
she's making me feel again like I'm feeling her emotions
(20:19):
just so sad, so depressed, deep grief the loss of
her child. But then I also feel like her husband
died too, like she lost everyone.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
That's how I feel.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
She's just kind of stuck here by herself. But this
is going back sometime.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Is that the room?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't I don't feel
his energy here.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
This is before that, Like I don't know what this
feels like. I don't know how old is this building.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Okay, so it's like back to that time and then
maybe in nineteen twenties too.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
It's hard. Timelines are a little bit after.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Not from the guy I'll go in there and see her.
They don't feel him.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
But I see the woman from the Dass morning looking
out the window, like I just see her staring out
the window.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So when you're outside, do I ever see people looking
out the window?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Or has anybody ever claimed to see spirits in the
windows when they're not inside.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
When City asked me that, I immedately thought of Israel's
story about seeing the ghost child staring out the window
when they were in the pool. I was about to
tell her about it, but she asked me to pause
because she was sensing something else.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And then I just heard a tea kettle going off, right,
it's this whole it's interesting, like it started whistling. I
feel like I'm brought back to the time where it's
like tea time, high teeth, and I feel like there's
like a woman here that was part of a wealthy.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Family now in that room.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So that's a bedroom I keep seeing in that room.
It feels more of an imprint of a businessman. I
feel like he would have been somebody that had like
high status, right or I see all this banking and
money and obviously well to do people knew this man?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Sometimes they hear names.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm just going to say it. It's like I heard Rogers.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Maybe it's a last name or Roger or something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
It's not bad. None of it's bad. I'm like, I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
To sift through, like even the woman in the black,
but I do feel like she is here. Do I
sense anything about the murderer that lived there? I literally don't.
It's like, doesn't hit me that way.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I don't feel afraid. I don't even.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Really sense it as being like part of the activity here,
So I wouldn't worry about that so much. Sometimes the
stories that were told that make us like freak out.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Next we popped in the bedroom I share with Silka,
and City says something that both Silka and I found
rather alarming.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Is this your bedroom?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Do anything bad here? Except I will say this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I feel like, again, the woman who worked here, who
is part of working here, checks in on you. I
don't know if you've ever felt like somebody's watching you
when you're sleeping a woman, But it's not bad, just
kind of checking in. Was there a fire here at
some point?
Speaker 8 (23:07):
I know, was it some kind of small fire? Because
I saw old charred bricks in the basement.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, because it just smelled smoke. Something happened here,
even if it's a small fire, there's an imprint left
behind for that. But what I would say is like,
when I'm kind of tapping into the space, be careful
of water leaking, water damage in here.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, oh okay, that's why I like, why am I
seeing that? So it was literally in here?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, Yeah, you just have to keep an eye on that. Look,
the spirits of the house want the house to be
kept in order, so they will help you see that.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Yeah, they wouldn't be angry if it was not kept.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I mean, they don't like it when people don't take
care of their house. But I don't sense that in
this particular case. Okay, yeah, yeah, it's nothing negative.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
You know, I keep seeing a horse. You know how
people had horse and buggies. It's that time period, you know.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
I mean, it's really old. It's old old fashion wallpaper.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Interesting. We go back downstairs and oh, by the way
back to you though, Well.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
We're going to talk about.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
At this point again, Sinney looked at Sika to make
the point that she was extremely open to attracting spirits
you're more.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Open, I think than anything.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, it's a sensing spirits to attracting spirits
in so remember I said, a mediums something that's open.
It's like a lighthouse, and the Middle Osian it's like that.
So they see you, they know that you can sense them,
so they're like, I'm going there because I'm scientists.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So yeah, I wouldn't say believe in that kind of
things if you cannot see it all matter it or
if there's no data about it. Yeah, but have you
had experiences No, not in a sense that I remembered
you know that I saw something, But did you ever
feel anything? I have dreams of loved ones that have died, yes,
(25:12):
but I thought it's a normal thing to have, like
dreams about the people. It can be.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
But I'll ask you this the visitation dreams. So after
people die, a really common experience is people have very
vivid dreams where the loved one who's passed away comes in.
You wake up and you're like, wow, that was a
different kind of dream. I really felt like my loved
one was there.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And Stilka admitted something that surprised even me. She had
frequently had dreams like this.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yes, I considered it like a normal thing to happen
like many years later.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
And you still remember that dream today very like clearly. Yeah,
Because if it's.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
A you know, a lot of fun who had died
many years before unexpected.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
In my world, that's a visitation dream from the spirits.
Can't something that's every person who die then like.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Leaves the spirit behind. Because everyone also has a history.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It doesn't mean that every spirit of everyone that ever
lived here and die.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
So this is what I think.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Look, I can't claim to know that I understand everything
that's going on in the other world. I believe everything's energy, right.
I believe there's a soul. I believe that if there's
a trauma, there's a fragments, and it's an opportunity as
a medium to sit with these parts of the soul
that maybe have pragvented, that want to be reintegrated to
(26:32):
the oneness or whatever.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You want to call it, to have a conversation with them.
So do I think that every soul is trapped.
Speaker 8 (26:39):
In a location?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I mean you would think of all the souls I
probably should be picking up on the murder, but I
don't sense them at all.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I don't sense them like as single. I'm like, no,
he's not here, That's not what I'm sensing.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I told Sinny that this was a relief because of
all the creepy things that it happened in my house,
it was Rashid Boza's presence that haunted me the most.
At this point, I asked Cindy if I could tell
her what Israel and Manny had told me about the ghost,
and she said it was fine since she was down
exploring the house. I told her it was uncanny that
she'd placed the woman in the exact place where Israel
(27:16):
and his family heard the haunting humming. She'd also nail
the memory Israel had of the ghost looking out the window,
which I knew would have me looking over my shoulder
the next time I watered the grass. I also told
her that I never fully believed in ghosts because I
had never experienced it myself, but that I'd asked Israel
about it and he said he'd felt the same way,
and then he experienced it and he just knew it
(27:38):
was a real thing.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
And that's how it is.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Look, I've been doing this for quite some time, and
I tell people you kind of have to have your
own experience to fully believe it, because I can tell
you holding along what I'm sensing and what I believe,
but until you actually feel it, it's kind of ineffable, right.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I asked Cindy if there was anything we could do
living around this house with all these ghosts, the idea
which was starting to freak me out, especially the woman
watching over us in the bedroom when we.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Sleep, you could just say hi to them, like Hi,
thank you for being here, thank you for looking after
our home, because that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Especially the woman downstairs.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I strongly feel like when she was here, she was
made servants, and so she's used to looking after the space,
so that's what she does.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Make her a cup of tea. Maybe you're drinking tea
in the morning or coffee and then looking weird, but
just like, put a little extra tea.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
The name Elizabeth came in really, really strong, so maybe
I think that's her name.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Just say Elizabeth.
Speaker 8 (28:41):
I like that name. Soka's name a child jack finding
too trendy.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Okay, whatever you do, edit hear his name Elizabeth. See
the name came to you? Okay? Did you really come
to you? Yeah? I remember, I said sometimes you just
know things I didn't exist that I've thought of.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I mean, that's Larry hogpisence when you're like, oh it
just landed in my brain?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
How did that get here?
Speaker 8 (29:11):
Cindy, do you feel she is more open to spirits
than I am?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I think you're both open. Okay, it's like this.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
If it feels too weird to be like, oh, I
send spirits, it's like, maybe.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
You just have a heightened sense. Let's call it an intuition.
Let's call it I trust my gut.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Let's say you can sense things about people, and you're
really good at reading people, like you know when somebody's
bs highly intuitive?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Does that feel better than talking to spirits?
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Look it's all connected.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
After our encounter with Cindy, I still wasn't sure that
Washid Baz's spirit wasn't haunting the house quite honestly, And
now Cindy had added two new ghosts to the picture,
Elizabeth and the morning lady wearing the black clothes on
the second floor. Now, sil can I both fall asleep
with a somewhat disconcerting feeling that a grieving woman and
he's watching us. I've plugged in all the old night
(30:03):
lights I used to use when the kids were little
and leave the downstairs light on. And what about Jack, Well,
apparently he likes to go on vacation too. On a
recent trip to Maine, we stayed at a quaint airbnb,
which seemed just fine until I pulled back the bedroom
door and saw a black and white photo of a
blond haired, blue eyed boy eerily smiling at me. When
(30:24):
I told Silka, she told me I just ruined her night.
We made up over dinner, a towel neatly placed over
the photograph on the wall between you and me. Silka
is going to have to get used to this, especially
since Cindy says she's a medium now. And if you're
listening to this and you think you've seen or heard
something unusual in your home, take Cindy's advice and keep
an open mind. It might just be worth finding out
(30:46):
what ghosts might be living with you or watching you
when you sleep. This is Murder Holmes. I'm Matt Mrinovitch.
(31:09):
Murder Holmes is created by and executive producer by Matt Marinovich.
Executive producers are Jennifer Bassett and Taylor Chicogne. Story editor
is Jennifer Bassett. Supervising producer is Carl Ktel. Producer is
Evan Tyer. Thanks to Nicholas Harder for sound design and editing.
Special thanks to Ali Perry and Nikkiatore. Murder Holmes is
(31:33):
the production of iHeart Podcasts. For more shows from iHeart Podcasts,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Host
Matt Marinovich
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.