April 9, 2025 • 28 mins
Join Lynn Hoffman for this moving episode with the Founder and CEO of Girlilla Marketing, Jennie Smythe. Her company is an award winning digital strategy company representing a large roster of famous entertainers and brands and she has a new book called "Becoming Girilla, My Journey to unleashing good in real life, online and in others."Her unfiltered, inspiring memoir showcases her leadership, resilience and authenticity and she clearly knows the healing power of music.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Music Saved People. When we sit down with people in
this office, I'm constantly like, yeah, but what do you
want people to feel when they see this? Like that's
you know, what do you want them to do with
this information? You want them to take action? Do you
want them to absorb? Do you want them to cry?
Do you want them to laugh? Like? What does that
look like? And I think that when you can approach
(00:23):
it like that, it does provide a little bit more
of a human component to something that is very non human,
which is digital media.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm Len Hoffman, and welcome to the Music Saved Me Podcast,
the podcast where we discuss the healing power of music
and bring you the inside stories from musicians to insiders, inventors,
and even authors. And I think our guest today can
certainly speak from pretty much every aspect of all the
topics and so much more that I just listed. She
(00:56):
is an inspiring figure in the world of music, entered painment,
and leadership. Jenny Smythe is a renowned entrepreneur and the
founder and CEO of Gorilla Marketing in Nashville, spell gi
R Gorilla. Her career spans over two decades, starting in
the music industry at companies like Elektra, Disney's Hollywood Records,
(01:19):
Yahoo Music, Clear Channel. There's so many more. The whole
time would be over listing all your incredible accomplishments. Jenny
is also the author of a new book. It's a
beautiful and inspiring memoir called Becoming Gorilla, and I'm thrilled
to welcome her to Music Save Me. Jenny Smith, Welcome
to the show. It's so great to have you here
in person.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
All right, let's start off with your personal connection to music,
since it's sort of was sort of in the beginning,
in the foundation of your world. Can you share a
moment when music profoundly impacted your life or maybe helped
you through a challenging time.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I one hundred percent I MTV. MTV was a game
changer for me. I was a typical Gen X latchkey kid. I,
you know, had two working parents, two divorced parents, so
I for many hours after school I would go home
(02:21):
and be by myself, you know. And I had an
older sister, but she's six years older than me, and
so she and I often joked that my parents had
two only children, and we really didn't intersect until we
were like thirty years old, you know. I mean she
was an awesome big sister, but she was like too
cool to hang out with me, you know. But MTV
(02:44):
was the staple. And I don't a lot of people
tell their stories about MTV about when it came on air.
I don't actually remember when it came on air. I
just remember that after school, that is what went on
TV downstairs, and then you know, I would bring my
homework down there. I would bring my snacks down there.
(03:06):
We had a TV that you had to you know,
change the dial, and and then eventually VH one came
and so did be ET and so that became the
way that I consumed music, and not only consumed it
from you know, listening to the radio, but like watching
(03:27):
music videos and then seeing those chirons on the TV
of like what label it was, what the video director
was all of that. I was like, hey, like what
is this? You know, what's a record label, what's a
you know, what's a video director? Like what does all
of this mean? And I think generationally we were all
sort of blown away by seeing our music.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Absolutely I did the same thing. I mean, we couldn't
get home fast enough when there was a new you know,
Michael Jackson music video or you know, whatever it was
that they were playing on there. It's a very formative,
although I find it interesting that you were looking at
the labels and and that that information where I was like,
I want to be the host of the show.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You know. Well, I mean we ended up where we
were supposed to be, you know, like I know, right,
and we didn't have the internet, right, so I have
no I have no idea like why that was so
interesting to me, but it was. And then I kept
seeing repetitive names, you know, like what's Sony music, What's
Warner Music? I mean I think like I remember seeing
(04:38):
a Madonna video and figuring out Sire Records and then
going to the record store and asking, how do I
know what other records do Sire Records have? And the
the guy must have looked at you like what who
(04:59):
is this kid? You know? So I remember doing things
like that that were probably just like very odd ball behavior,
but you know, it was it was just in It
was it was interested me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You were inquisitive and you and you wanted to ask questions,
and yeah, well that's how you had to be back then,
because you said there was there was no internet, So
how else do we know unless we asked right exactly
or went to the library, which I was really bad
at not doing.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I was not going to go library, Like, no, no.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
How do you during that time where there's specific artists
or songs that really resonated with you, maybe say during
pivotal moments in your life.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh my gosh, just entire movements of music, right, Like
it was kind of we were in that age where
people started to siphon themselves off into groups based on
the kind of music they listened to. So you were
like a rocker, like you were a stoner, you were
an kid. You know, you can't And I actually liked
(06:04):
everything and so yeah, and so like I didn't. I
didn't try to own that. I didn't try to you know.
I mean I certainly leaned more rock than anything else.
But man, I loved I mean the pop that was
coming out, you know, the Madonnas, the Cyndi Lauppers, the
(06:27):
you know, some of the Blondie videos, the you know,
I mean just they were they were rock too. They
just were massive global pop image icons, you know. I mean,
you just couldn't get it. You couldn't get off the
channel without seeing a strong individual woman.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
How would you say your relationship with music has evolved
over the years.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I still get really excited, Like I mean, it's the
best part of my job, you know, Like I'll it
doesn't matter the types of clients I have. Like when
I hear a good song, it takes me right back
to that place in my heart where I get thrilled
to be excited to be part of a team that
(07:15):
can launch something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Interesting that you say, being a part of a team.
I feel like that's my whole journey in life was
to just work with a really great team. But you
don't always get that right out of the gate, do you.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Oh, you don't. Sometimes you have to build it.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
But when can you build the team if you're still
just starting out, you know, trying to make your way.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Like I mean, that's the thing, right is, like you
have to recognize, you what collaboration you need to be successful.
And you're right, like when you start thinking about it
in a linear fashion, like if it's a money hurdle,
or it's a time hurdle, or you know, all of
(08:00):
the things that we deal with of being entrepreneurs. But
at the heart of it. My job is so uniquely
collaborative that I just I have to find ways to
work with people and get it done. So even if
it's a trade you know, like and sometimes that just
(08:22):
comes in advice, Like I have competitors that I speak
to on the regular you know about what we're doing
and our area of the business. And over the years
that served me really well.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Not to be just for the for the for those listening,
you were very integral in terms of digital marketing or
musical artists.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Is that correct? Would that be?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I mean, I don't know if I would say that
about myself, but I was at the I personally was
part of the generation that came online, and professionally, I
feel like I have been a good usher, a good
bridge between what has happened generationally.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yes, it's big, I mean, especially the last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
When I moved to New York and got my first
job in television, it was VH one Classic, which was
a part of the very beginning of the launch of
digital television, which I had no idea what it was.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I was just thrilled to be there. It didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Still, it's like one of the best things I've ever
seen on television, which a classic, the pop up videos
that VH one did. Oh yes, yes, best programming ever.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, and they should they should still have that on
the air today because there's still so much being done
about it.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
But yeah, that really is.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's an exciting time and interesting that it's taken so long.
It seems like it was yesterday, but now it's really
the thing that's driving everything. Yeah, is so adapting to
that must have been interesting and interesting time for you.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
It was fun, right because we were in and we're
not in a dissimilar time right now because at the
time we still had TV, we had radio, we had touring,
you know, we had magazines, we had newspapers, we had critics,
we had all of that. But we didn't really have
a way to talk directly to our fans. So we
(10:28):
were speaking through third parties, which can be a benefit,
you know, it.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Can be You're right, we don't want to discount them.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
They're very important, right, and it's we didn't have to
do nearly as much damage control, you know, as we
often find ourselves in positions of having to administer. But conversely,
as we grew and you know, digital and the fan
(10:58):
became the gate keeper instead of a lot of other sources.
It the volume of releases became a lot and some
of these other mediums, unfortunately have either dissipated or decreased.
So it's not it is a new opportunity. But every
(11:21):
sort of evolution comes, you know, there's a there's there's
death challenge.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, yea.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So absolutely, it's not. It's not always like just growth
like sometimes it's a little bit of it's a flat line.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It's just a stagnating just Yeah, it's weird because you
would have thought we would have jumped to where we
are now a long time ago. But it's like you said,
it's taken almost two decades to get to the point.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I mean from your perspective being in TV, I mean,
we they're going, they're they're they're behind us. You know,
the music business has always kind of been the stepchild
to movies and the and the TV business. But we
went through this evolution, you know, painfully and publicly, you know,
(12:09):
with Napster and all of that.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yes, and so.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I think everybody in the in the entertainment space had
the benefit of seeing some of our our profound mistakes
in that. So but that's for sure, there's still a lot.
I mean, how many times do you talk to people
a week where they're like, have you seen this show?
And you're like, what where? I don't need? What network
is that? And people are like, I don't you know
(12:34):
it's something something plus whatever, and you're just like, I
don't know, you know, like I'm old now I have
like the networks that I like to watch, and we
move on. You know, no, you're.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But but you're right. And what you just said though
about radio is the same thing. And radio was really
the place where you would go to hear that new
song that everyone was listening to yep, and now they
are starting to to play it, you.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Know, yeah, yes, yeah, and heavy rotation hopefully.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Regarding creative creativity and inspiration you were talking about, you
work a lot with with musicians and bands and groups
that we had mentioned earlier, creative groups. That's not always
easy in the music world to work as a team
because there's so many elements in the from the people
who wrote the music to you know, touring and decision
(13:28):
making and things like that. Have you ever had to
sort of deal in that world where you're helping the
bands to get along in their own groups.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, I mean everybody has a different perception of what
success might look like to them, you know. And also
I mean being in a collaborative environment is I have
said this analogy a thousand times, but I'm like when
you grow up with divorced parents, you learn very quickly
(13:59):
which parent to go to to get the answer that
you want. You know, yes, or you learn that there
are certain things that you might run by somebody versus
somebody else, just based on how you think the the
news might fall on their heart, you know. But for
(14:23):
the most part, the way that we have chosen to operate,
even though it might be more painful, is to just
be fully transparent on you know. Our job isn't to
tell somebody what to do. Really, most artists that we
work with come to the table with a strong vision
(14:44):
of how they want the world to perceive their music,
and every artist knows that once it's out, you can't
actually control that at all. People hold on to things
that you weren't even thinking that they would think would
be a big deal, you know, favorite songs or singles
as it were. Is still a very opinion based, gut
(15:08):
instinct business. And even though digital marketing has slapped some
analytics on it that make it a little less risky
to you know, potentially choose one song over another. The really,
the heart of it is that some person, a human
being on a team, whether it's the artist or a
(15:31):
trusted confidant within the circle, somebody has made the decision
and at some point we all just have to get
behind that decision and do the best we can. But yes,
by making one person happy, ultimately, when you're dealing with teams,
you're making another person potentially unhappy, you know. So it's
(15:56):
a balance. You know, there's a starter, there's a sub
I mean, it's just it's the reality.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved
Me Podcast And by the way, if you like this podcast,
you are going to love our companion podcast called Taken
a Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend buzz Night
and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast, the podcast
(16:27):
where we discuss the healing powers of music with some
of the biggest names in music as well as up
and comers. Many artists talk about music coming to them
in moments of inspiration. As I'm sure you've discussed many times.
Have you personally experienced this in your creative work? Have
you ever been inspired by music or songs?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And I'm inspired by everybody. I mean I see the
world in words, and when people are speaking to me,
I will glob on to one saying or something. A
lot of times it's something in passing. So I am
the annoying person who could be at a dinner and
(17:10):
my friend could be just saying something and passing about
whatever her day is, and she'll say something and I'm like, oh,
I got to write that down, you know, Like I'll
text myself so I don't forget it. Or when I'm
listening to something and I try to really listen, like
I try to get the music, and before I make
(17:32):
any offers of ideas or you know, any suggestions on
what I would do in terms of strategy, I try
to listen. And I think that's pretty rare these days,
you know. I think I think a lot of people
will look at the numbers associated with a particular person
(17:54):
or a particular piece of media and then talk about
how they were going to, you know, deploy it as
opposed to what we are deploying, and the bigger point
is like when we sit down with people in this office,
I'm constantly like, yeah, but what do you want people
to feel when they see this? Yeah, Like that's you know,
(18:17):
what do you want them to do with this information?
Do you want them to take action? Do you want
them to absorb? Do you want them to fry? Do
you want them to laugh? Like? Like, what does that
look like? And I and I think that when you
can approach it like that, it does provide a little
bit more of a human component to something that is
(18:38):
very non human, which is digital media. You know. But
I mean that's just it's harder.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
It is gone are the old fashioned rating systems too,
So you really are in the dark in terms of
that's right. Although the algorithms are a little scary these days,
scary souse, they can really you know, you can advertise
as one to one now, yep, which is amazing, especially
when you're putting out good stuff like music that helps
to deal with the massive i think mental health crisis
(19:13):
that we have going on in the world today and music.
I'm pretty certain that it's been scientifically proven now, especially
through some great interviews that I've had with some scientists,
that it does heal, which explains a lot about the
business as a whole and why it's still here today,
stronger than ever before, and even more of it more kinds.
(19:36):
Do you think music has the power to heal and
transform yourself? And if so, have you seen this in
your own life?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Oh? Not, even aside from the very obvious mental health
everything that you just referenced. The idea in my family,
we have my mom is suffering from dementia from Alzheimer's,
so we've seen the benefit on that. There's things that
(20:06):
she remembers deep deep in her and you know, certainly
people it's well documented in sources that have actual scientific reference,
not me. The idea that you can play somebody a
song from a really you know, prolific time in their
life and they can reconnect to those feelings that they
(20:28):
know where they were when they first heard that song,
or they think about the car that they used to
drive and what did that car smell? Like, you know,
like was it raining? Who was in the car? You know,
like you remember all of these things. And now I'm like, oh,
I sometimes I can't remember what I did on Tuesday,
but like I will listen to a song that I
(20:49):
loved in high school and I could tell you everything
that was happening at that time. You know so too,
Even even if there was no scientific reference to the
benefit of music, I know in my heart that and
every person that I talk to that also loves music,
which is really hard to find a person on the
(21:11):
planet who doesn't like music. Right, But the idea that
you can connect emotionally your memory, your smell, your site,
like all of those things just by listening to a song,
it's incredible. We are incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
You're right, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think that we don't give ourselves as humans enough
credit for how powerful we are and the things that
we're able to do without plugging into a wall.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
For lack of a better way to explain it, I've
always wondered that, you know, if there's electricity in us,
how come we don't have to charge?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, I mean even when you see, like you know,
my kids grow up with the apps you know, like yeah,
Abide or you know whatever, and they use those to
go to sleep and use sometimes they use the noise frequencies,
and just the idea that that is so calming to
(22:08):
our nervous system that we can bring ourselves down to
a place where we can out and RESTful sleep no
matter what is going on in our lives minus menopause,
by the way, and it's just.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Oh, nice to meet you. But I just broke out
into a sweat when you said that.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Sorry, guys, if you're listening, I know, guys hate.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That the idea that you know, my eight year old
knows if he's if he wants to listen to uh
meditation at night, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's great, that really is. You know, it's funny when
we were kids, we didn't have that stuff. Obviously we
were kids. Now all of a sudden, I sound like
can we had.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
To open the window and listen to crickets?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
We ate rock? Should we liked it?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
No?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
We I used to listen to talk radio. I didn't
listen to talk radio. I would just put on talk
radio and I could fall asleep to the tone of
the voice just lulling me sleep.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
So my dad used to joke that if we ever
he ever wanted me to go to sleep, that he
would just put golf on. Yes, I was just done, Yeah,
just out out out on the couch.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
That quiet clap.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Well before I let you go you are an incredible person.
You've gone through so much in your short career, and
you've experienced things in life that most of us do.
You know, love and loss and growth, and but to
(23:41):
levels that most people don't really get to go to,
you know, like president of Country Music Association or you know,
things like that. So with that said, and also you
sit on the board of a special organization called Music
Health Alliance, what would you give for I guess just
something for inspiring words to a young person today who's
(24:02):
starting out into a completely different world than we came
through in terms of adapting and adopting and persevering.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think the biggest piece of advice that I have
for somebody is when you feel yourself saying, but I
don't know what's going to happen in the future, and
you have a negative spin on that. I want to
remind people that when I was in college, this didn't exist.
(24:32):
So I look at it like, yeah, but we don't
know what's going to happen as not a yeah we
don't know what's going to happen. That's so scary. What
are you going to do? You got to have a plant.
I'm like, hey, yeah, you're right. I don't know what's
going to happen. Amazing opportunities may come your way with
just a little patience and hard work, and so you
(24:55):
can't even imagine what the world is going to look
like and the opportunities that are going to come your way.
So you've got to change your mindset on that. I
at this age, with this experience, still have no idea
some days when I walk into the office what I'm
going to have to deal with. And that is not
(25:17):
what stresses me out. What stresses me out is actually
thinking about living the kind of life that I do
something the same way every single day until it's time
to clock out. That's not interesting to me. So when
especially when kids are in college and they're asked that
awful question, what do you want to be when you
(25:38):
grow up? You know, like your job in your twenties
and even even past that is to try a bunch
of things and figure out what doesn't work for you,
you know, And I think that pressure that we put
on ourselves to have all the answers and to have
(25:59):
the plan is just a gigantic disservice because sometimes you
just got to get in there and figure it out.
And for me, historically speaking, when there's confusion and there's chaos,
that's been when I've been the most successful. So it's
it's you got to look for opportunities.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Great advice. Oh and one more thing I lied about
the last question. Becoming Gorilla, which is your new memoir out,
Can you explain why you named it Gorilla g I
R L I L LA.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
So Gorilla Marketing is the name of my company and
it was originally at play off of gorilla warfare, you know,
meeting like underground sort of, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
On the on the down and dirty.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's right. And why I name the book Becoming Gorilla
is because for fifteen years I've been hearing you know,
you can't you you can't. You got to have life
work balance. You got to you know, you got to
keep your work life separate from your home life, separate
from your whatevers. And about five years ago, I just
(27:13):
came to the realization that I am my job in
a way I am. I am what I do and
that's good because I'm super passionate about it. And I
don't put a face on or a uniform on for
eight hours to do this and then go be somebody else.
The rest of the day. So for me, it was
(27:34):
more of a reunion of just saying like, it's this
is who I am, and it happens to coincide with
what I do. But and I really wanted people to
see themselves in my story. And my hope was that
when they were reading it that they would have moments
where they would laugh or laugh at me, you know,
(27:58):
just I identifying with the story themselves.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Well, it's a beautiful book and I think everyone should
go out and grab a copy of it right now.
And I want to thank you so much for being
on Music Save Me, because I know you don't have
a lot of time, but I know you're a good
plate juggler after everything I've read, so Jenny Smith, thank
you so much for being on Music Save Me, and
good luck with everything.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Thank you so much.
Music Saved People. When we sit down with people in
this office, I'm constantly like, yeah, but what do you
want people to feel when they see this? Like that's
you know, what do you want them to do with
this information? You want them to take action? Do you
want them to absorb? Do you want them to cry?
Do you want them to laugh? Like? What does that
look like? And I think that when you can approach
(00:23):
it like that, it does provide a little bit more
of a human component to something that is very non human,
which is digital media.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm Len Hoffman, and welcome to the Music Saved Me Podcast,
the podcast where we discuss the healing power of music
and bring you the inside stories from musicians to insiders, inventors,
and even authors. And I think our guest today can
certainly speak from pretty much every aspect of all the
topics and so much more that I just listed. She
(00:56):
is an inspiring figure in the world of music, entered painment,
and leadership. Jenny Smythe is a renowned entrepreneur and the
founder and CEO of Gorilla Marketing in Nashville, spell gi
R Gorilla. Her career spans over two decades, starting in
the music industry at companies like Elektra, Disney's Hollywood Records,
(01:19):
Yahoo Music, Clear Channel. There's so many more. The whole
time would be over listing all your incredible accomplishments. Jenny
is also the author of a new book. It's a
beautiful and inspiring memoir called Becoming Gorilla, and I'm thrilled
to welcome her to Music Save Me. Jenny Smith, Welcome
to the show. It's so great to have you here
in person.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
All right, let's start off with your personal connection to music,
since it's sort of was sort of in the beginning,
in the foundation of your world. Can you share a
moment when music profoundly impacted your life or maybe helped
you through a challenging time.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I one hundred percent I MTV. MTV was a game
changer for me. I was a typical Gen X latchkey kid. I,
you know, had two working parents, two divorced parents, so
I for many hours after school I would go home
(02:21):
and be by myself, you know. And I had an
older sister, but she's six years older than me, and
so she and I often joked that my parents had
two only children, and we really didn't intersect until we
were like thirty years old, you know. I mean she
was an awesome big sister, but she was like too
cool to hang out with me, you know. But MTV
(02:44):
was the staple. And I don't a lot of people
tell their stories about MTV about when it came on air.
I don't actually remember when it came on air. I
just remember that after school, that is what went on
TV downstairs, and then you know, I would bring my
homework down there. I would bring my snacks down there.
(03:06):
We had a TV that you had to you know,
change the dial, and and then eventually VH one came
and so did be ET and so that became the
way that I consumed music, and not only consumed it
from you know, listening to the radio, but like watching
(03:27):
music videos and then seeing those chirons on the TV
of like what label it was, what the video director
was all of that. I was like, hey, like what
is this? You know, what's a record label, what's a
you know, what's a video director? Like what does all
of this mean? And I think generationally we were all
sort of blown away by seeing our music.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Absolutely I did the same thing. I mean, we couldn't
get home fast enough when there was a new you know,
Michael Jackson music video or you know, whatever it was
that they were playing on there. It's a very formative,
although I find it interesting that you were looking at
the labels and and that that information where I was like,
I want to be the host of the show.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You know. Well, I mean we ended up where we
were supposed to be, you know, like I know, right,
and we didn't have the internet, right, so I have
no I have no idea like why that was so
interesting to me, but it was. And then I kept
seeing repetitive names, you know, like what's Sony music, What's
Warner Music? I mean I think like I remember seeing
(04:38):
a Madonna video and figuring out Sire Records and then
going to the record store and asking, how do I
know what other records do Sire Records have? And the
the guy must have looked at you like what who
(04:59):
is this kid? You know? So I remember doing things
like that that were probably just like very odd ball behavior,
but you know, it was it was just in It
was it was interested me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You were inquisitive and you and you wanted to ask questions,
and yeah, well that's how you had to be back then,
because you said there was there was no internet, So
how else do we know unless we asked right exactly
or went to the library, which I was really bad
at not doing.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I was not going to go library, Like, no, no.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
How do you during that time where there's specific artists
or songs that really resonated with you, maybe say during
pivotal moments in your life.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh my gosh, just entire movements of music, right, Like
it was kind of we were in that age where
people started to siphon themselves off into groups based on
the kind of music they listened to. So you were
like a rocker, like you were a stoner, you were
an kid. You know, you can't And I actually liked
(06:04):
everything and so yeah, and so like I didn't. I
didn't try to own that. I didn't try to you know.
I mean I certainly leaned more rock than anything else.
But man, I loved I mean the pop that was
coming out, you know, the Madonnas, the Cyndi Lauppers, the
(06:27):
you know, some of the Blondie videos, the you know,
I mean just they were they were rock too. They
just were massive global pop image icons, you know. I mean,
you just couldn't get it. You couldn't get off the
channel without seeing a strong individual woman.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
How would you say your relationship with music has evolved
over the years.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I still get really excited, Like I mean, it's the
best part of my job, you know, Like I'll it
doesn't matter the types of clients I have. Like when
I hear a good song, it takes me right back
to that place in my heart where I get thrilled
to be excited to be part of a team that
(07:15):
can launch something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Interesting that you say, being a part of a team.
I feel like that's my whole journey in life was
to just work with a really great team. But you
don't always get that right out of the gate, do you.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Oh, you don't. Sometimes you have to build it.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
But when can you build the team if you're still
just starting out, you know, trying to make your way.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Like I mean, that's the thing, right is, like you
have to recognize, you what collaboration you need to be successful.
And you're right, like when you start thinking about it
in a linear fashion, like if it's a money hurdle,
or it's a time hurdle, or you know, all of
(08:00):
the things that we deal with of being entrepreneurs. But
at the heart of it. My job is so uniquely
collaborative that I just I have to find ways to
work with people and get it done. So even if
it's a trade you know, like and sometimes that just
(08:22):
comes in advice, Like I have competitors that I speak
to on the regular you know about what we're doing
and our area of the business. And over the years
that served me really well.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Not to be just for the for the for those listening,
you were very integral in terms of digital marketing or
musical artists.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Is that correct? Would that be?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I mean, I don't know if I would say that
about myself, but I was at the I personally was
part of the generation that came online, and professionally, I
feel like I have been a good usher, a good
bridge between what has happened generationally.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yes, it's big, I mean, especially the last twenty years.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
When I moved to New York and got my first
job in television, it was VH one Classic, which was
a part of the very beginning of the launch of
digital television, which I had no idea what it was.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I was just thrilled to be there. It didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Still, it's like one of the best things I've ever
seen on television, which a classic, the pop up videos
that VH one did. Oh yes, yes, best programming ever.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, and they should they should still have that on
the air today because there's still so much being done
about it.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
But yeah, that really is.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's an exciting time and interesting that it's taken so long.
It seems like it was yesterday, but now it's really
the thing that's driving everything. Yeah, is so adapting to
that must have been interesting and interesting time for you.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
It was fun, right because we were in and we're
not in a dissimilar time right now because at the
time we still had TV, we had radio, we had touring,
you know, we had magazines, we had newspapers, we had critics,
we had all of that. But we didn't really have
a way to talk directly to our fans. So we
(10:28):
were speaking through third parties, which can be a benefit,
you know, it.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Can be You're right, we don't want to discount them.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
They're very important, right, and it's we didn't have to
do nearly as much damage control, you know, as we
often find ourselves in positions of having to administer. But conversely,
as we grew and you know, digital and the fan
(10:58):
became the gate keeper instead of a lot of other sources.
It the volume of releases became a lot and some
of these other mediums, unfortunately have either dissipated or decreased.
So it's not it is a new opportunity. But every
(11:21):
sort of evolution comes, you know, there's a there's there's
death challenge.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yeah, yeah, yea.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So absolutely, it's not. It's not always like just growth
like sometimes it's a little bit of it's a flat line.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It's just a stagnating just Yeah, it's weird because you
would have thought we would have jumped to where we
are now a long time ago. But it's like you said,
it's taken almost two decades to get to the point.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I mean from your perspective being in TV, I mean,
we they're going, they're they're they're behind us. You know,
the music business has always kind of been the stepchild
to movies and the and the TV business. But we
went through this evolution, you know, painfully and publicly, you know,
(12:09):
with Napster and all of that.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yes, and so.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I think everybody in the in the entertainment space had
the benefit of seeing some of our our profound mistakes
in that. So but that's for sure, there's still a lot.
I mean, how many times do you talk to people
a week where they're like, have you seen this show?
And you're like, what where? I don't need? What network
is that? And people are like, I don't you know
(12:34):
it's something something plus whatever, and you're just like, I
don't know, you know, like I'm old now I have
like the networks that I like to watch, and we
move on. You know, no, you're.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
But but you're right. And what you just said though
about radio is the same thing. And radio was really
the place where you would go to hear that new
song that everyone was listening to yep, and now they
are starting to to play it, you.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Know, yeah, yes, yeah, and heavy rotation hopefully.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Regarding creative creativity and inspiration you were talking about, you
work a lot with with musicians and bands and groups
that we had mentioned earlier, creative groups. That's not always
easy in the music world to work as a team
because there's so many elements in the from the people
who wrote the music to you know, touring and decision
(13:28):
making and things like that. Have you ever had to
sort of deal in that world where you're helping the
bands to get along in their own groups.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, I mean everybody has a different perception of what
success might look like to them, you know. And also
I mean being in a collaborative environment is I have
said this analogy a thousand times, but I'm like when
you grow up with divorced parents, you learn very quickly
(13:59):
which parent to go to to get the answer that
you want. You know, yes, or you learn that there
are certain things that you might run by somebody versus
somebody else, just based on how you think the the
news might fall on their heart, you know. But for
(14:23):
the most part, the way that we have chosen to operate,
even though it might be more painful, is to just
be fully transparent on you know. Our job isn't to
tell somebody what to do. Really, most artists that we
work with come to the table with a strong vision
(14:44):
of how they want the world to perceive their music,
and every artist knows that once it's out, you can't
actually control that at all. People hold on to things
that you weren't even thinking that they would think would
be a big deal, you know, favorite songs or singles
as it were. Is still a very opinion based, gut
(15:08):
instinct business. And even though digital marketing has slapped some
analytics on it that make it a little less risky
to you know, potentially choose one song over another. The really,
the heart of it is that some person, a human
being on a team, whether it's the artist or a
(15:31):
trusted confidant within the circle, somebody has made the decision
and at some point we all just have to get
behind that decision and do the best we can. But yes,
by making one person happy, ultimately, when you're dealing with teams,
you're making another person potentially unhappy, you know. So it's
(15:56):
a balance. You know, there's a starter, there's a sub
I mean, it's just it's the reality.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved
Me Podcast And by the way, if you like this podcast,
you are going to love our companion podcast called Taken
a Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend buzz Night
and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast, the podcast
(16:27):
where we discuss the healing powers of music with some
of the biggest names in music as well as up
and comers. Many artists talk about music coming to them
in moments of inspiration. As I'm sure you've discussed many times.
Have you personally experienced this in your creative work? Have
you ever been inspired by music or songs?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And I'm inspired by everybody. I mean I see the
world in words, and when people are speaking to me,
I will glob on to one saying or something. A
lot of times it's something in passing. So I am
the annoying person who could be at a dinner and
(17:10):
my friend could be just saying something and passing about
whatever her day is, and she'll say something and I'm like, oh,
I got to write that down, you know, Like I'll
text myself so I don't forget it. Or when I'm
listening to something and I try to really listen, like
I try to get the music, and before I make
(17:32):
any offers of ideas or you know, any suggestions on
what I would do in terms of strategy, I try
to listen. And I think that's pretty rare these days,
you know. I think I think a lot of people
will look at the numbers associated with a particular person
(17:54):
or a particular piece of media and then talk about
how they were going to, you know, deploy it as
opposed to what we are deploying, and the bigger point
is like when we sit down with people in this office,
I'm constantly like, yeah, but what do you want people
to feel when they see this? Yeah, Like that's you know,
(18:17):
what do you want them to do with this information?
Do you want them to take action? Do you want
them to absorb? Do you want them to fry? Do
you want them to laugh? Like? Like, what does that
look like? And I and I think that when you
can approach it like that, it does provide a little
bit more of a human component to something that is
(18:38):
very non human, which is digital media. You know. But
I mean that's just it's harder.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
It is gone are the old fashioned rating systems too,
So you really are in the dark in terms of
that's right. Although the algorithms are a little scary these days,
scary souse, they can really you know, you can advertise
as one to one now, yep, which is amazing, especially
when you're putting out good stuff like music that helps
to deal with the massive i think mental health crisis
(19:13):
that we have going on in the world today and music.
I'm pretty certain that it's been scientifically proven now, especially
through some great interviews that I've had with some scientists,
that it does heal, which explains a lot about the
business as a whole and why it's still here today,
stronger than ever before, and even more of it more kinds.
(19:36):
Do you think music has the power to heal and
transform yourself? And if so, have you seen this in
your own life?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Oh? Not, even aside from the very obvious mental health
everything that you just referenced. The idea in my family,
we have my mom is suffering from dementia from Alzheimer's,
so we've seen the benefit on that. There's things that
(20:06):
she remembers deep deep in her and you know, certainly
people it's well documented in sources that have actual scientific reference,
not me. The idea that you can play somebody a
song from a really you know, prolific time in their
life and they can reconnect to those feelings that they
(20:28):
know where they were when they first heard that song,
or they think about the car that they used to
drive and what did that car smell? Like, you know,
like was it raining? Who was in the car? You know,
like you remember all of these things. And now I'm like, oh,
I sometimes I can't remember what I did on Tuesday,
but like I will listen to a song that I
(20:49):
loved in high school and I could tell you everything
that was happening at that time. You know so too,
Even even if there was no scientific reference to the
benefit of music, I know in my heart that and
every person that I talk to that also loves music,
which is really hard to find a person on the
(21:11):
planet who doesn't like music. Right, But the idea that
you can connect emotionally your memory, your smell, your site,
like all of those things just by listening to a song,
it's incredible. We are incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
You're right, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think that we don't give ourselves as humans enough
credit for how powerful we are and the things that
we're able to do without plugging into a wall.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
For lack of a better way to explain it, I've
always wondered that, you know, if there's electricity in us,
how come we don't have to charge?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, I mean even when you see, like you know,
my kids grow up with the apps you know, like yeah,
Abide or you know whatever, and they use those to
go to sleep and use sometimes they use the noise frequencies,
and just the idea that that is so calming to
(22:08):
our nervous system that we can bring ourselves down to
a place where we can out and RESTful sleep no
matter what is going on in our lives minus menopause,
by the way, and it's just.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Oh, nice to meet you. But I just broke out
into a sweat when you said that.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Sorry, guys, if you're listening, I know, guys hate.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That the idea that you know, my eight year old
knows if he's if he wants to listen to uh
meditation at night, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's great, that really is. You know, it's funny when
we were kids, we didn't have that stuff. Obviously we
were kids. Now all of a sudden, I sound like
can we had.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
To open the window and listen to crickets?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
We ate rock? Should we liked it?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
No?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
We I used to listen to talk radio. I didn't
listen to talk radio. I would just put on talk
radio and I could fall asleep to the tone of
the voice just lulling me sleep.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
So my dad used to joke that if we ever
he ever wanted me to go to sleep, that he
would just put golf on. Yes, I was just done, Yeah,
just out out out on the couch.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
That quiet clap.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Well before I let you go you are an incredible person.
You've gone through so much in your short career, and
you've experienced things in life that most of us do.
You know, love and loss and growth, and but to
(23:41):
levels that most people don't really get to go to,
you know, like president of Country Music Association or you know,
things like that. So with that said, and also you
sit on the board of a special organization called Music
Health Alliance, what would you give for I guess just
something for inspiring words to a young person today who's
(24:02):
starting out into a completely different world than we came
through in terms of adapting and adopting and persevering.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think the biggest piece of advice that I have
for somebody is when you feel yourself saying, but I
don't know what's going to happen in the future, and
you have a negative spin on that. I want to
remind people that when I was in college, this didn't exist.
(24:32):
So I look at it like, yeah, but we don't
know what's going to happen as not a yeah we
don't know what's going to happen. That's so scary. What
are you going to do? You got to have a plant.
I'm like, hey, yeah, you're right. I don't know what's
going to happen. Amazing opportunities may come your way with
just a little patience and hard work, and so you
(24:55):
can't even imagine what the world is going to look
like and the opportunities that are going to come your way.
So you've got to change your mindset on that. I
at this age, with this experience, still have no idea
some days when I walk into the office what I'm
going to have to deal with. And that is not
(25:17):
what stresses me out. What stresses me out is actually
thinking about living the kind of life that I do
something the same way every single day until it's time
to clock out. That's not interesting to me. So when
especially when kids are in college and they're asked that
awful question, what do you want to be when you
(25:38):
grow up? You know, like your job in your twenties
and even even past that is to try a bunch
of things and figure out what doesn't work for you,
you know, And I think that pressure that we put
on ourselves to have all the answers and to have
(25:59):
the plan is just a gigantic disservice because sometimes you
just got to get in there and figure it out.
And for me, historically speaking, when there's confusion and there's chaos,
that's been when I've been the most successful. So it's
it's you got to look for opportunities.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Great advice. Oh and one more thing I lied about
the last question. Becoming Gorilla, which is your new memoir out,
Can you explain why you named it Gorilla g I
R L I L LA.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
So Gorilla Marketing is the name of my company and
it was originally at play off of gorilla warfare, you know,
meeting like underground sort of, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
On the on the down and dirty.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's right. And why I name the book Becoming Gorilla
is because for fifteen years I've been hearing you know,
you can't you you can't. You got to have life
work balance. You got to you know, you got to
keep your work life separate from your home life, separate
from your whatevers. And about five years ago, I just
(27:13):
came to the realization that I am my job in
a way I am. I am what I do and
that's good because I'm super passionate about it. And I
don't put a face on or a uniform on for
eight hours to do this and then go be somebody else.
The rest of the day. So for me, it was
(27:34):
more of a reunion of just saying like, it's this
is who I am, and it happens to coincide with
what I do. But and I really wanted people to
see themselves in my story. And my hope was that
when they were reading it that they would have moments
where they would laugh or laugh at me, you know,
(27:58):
just I identifying with the story themselves.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Well, it's a beautiful book and I think everyone should
go out and grab a copy of it right now.
And I want to thank you so much for being
on Music Save Me, because I know you don't have
a lot of time, but I know you're a good
plate juggler after everything I've read, so Jenny Smith, thank
you so much for being on Music Save Me, and
good luck with everything.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Thank you so much.
Host
Lynn Hoffman
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