134 - Live at the Connor Palace in Cleveland

Karen and Georgia cover Ed Edwards and the Kirtland cult killings.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:37):
What's that clean? Yay?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, yes, spotlight.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
It's the brightest spotlight in the world.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
We truly can't see anyone but the people with their
teeth against the stage?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Are you guys, Sarah? I'm I want to talk to
the people that work here. I think we can get
like two more rows here in the front. Don't you
at least layer.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
It up a little bit, get kicked in the face
if we get them. Punk rock, don't piss us off.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
We're a punk rock podcast. Yeah right, Oh my god,
We're finally in Cleveland. This was This was not the
city Georgia was talking.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
It was not. Why did I ever say that there
was a state? I think it was that I didn't
want to go to.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
We were young, We were young podcasts. We were real stupid.
We did we didn't think anyone was listening and were
just chitting chatting away.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
We went to.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
We had been to like we had done like a
three hundred room place before, Like, why would anyone come?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm not going to this place.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
It's like, yesh, you are yeah, shut up, Steven, Yes,
let's hear it. He's not here.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
He's not here, but.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yes, exactly there he is?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
He that out there.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Look, it's Steven's cookie face.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Explain it. Explain this to it's Stephen.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Well, it's it's perfectly Stephen. Georgia. We looked at it.
I said, it has his grabbing eyes. Let him see
look at those. Stephen's eyes are always like do you
need anything? Georgia sent him a picture of it, and
he responded, I wish my lips were that full. That's

(02:40):
our Steve.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's our Stevie. Thank you. Danielle at MK sweets, she made.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes box of like all those cookies, and one of them.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
I've never seen this before.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
It was like a pink, cute, little like beauty shop
thing and it said fingers and faces.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Fucking fingers and faces.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Love it. We love a good side joke.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
She's some phony cookie making pseudo listener. She knows the
deep live show references like fingers and faces.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, speaking of the ones you just painted.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh my god, I literally did this two minutes ago.
And then I was like, we are standing outside of
the door, and I go, Georgia, can you fluff my
hair up for me? I can't get in there right now?
What with my fingers and my faces? Can't do it?
I thought you were really going to bust out with
something right there that felt good. Do you want to

(03:34):
sing a little Mermaid again?

Speaker 4 (03:36):
No?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Okay, I do want to tell you guys that I
forgot my meds on this trip.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
It's not my fault. Full transparency sharing all night, have
birth control, you have no boundaries. I really did that.
Here's what happened.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
I'm look so good at packing and I put on
my stuff and my little thing and then I hang
up and then it's like everything is there. And then uh,
electricity went out of my apartment before we like write
as we were leaving the house, pay the bill.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's fine, that's Elvis unplugging something. I guess you can't go.
He loves me because he loves you so much much
more than Stephen.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
And as I was leaving, and then Vince is like
Vince's misters, like we have to leave right now for
the airport.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Sure in a good way, because.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'm like, we can get there twenty minutes before. So
the thing fell, everything fell out of it. I picked
it all up in the dark. Didn't pick up my pill.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Now just birth are all pill?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Everyone?

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Every pill? Honey?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
No, no, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
So I call like fucking shout out to CBS who
were fucking on it.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
I mean promo code murder.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Oh that's right. At live shows. Now we're doing ads too.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's there. These are high integration ads where we totally
pretend like we're talking about something and this none of.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
This happened because I can't live without my Wellbutrin.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Let's get that.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Oh my god, dude, that's the that's the ship right there.
And we start naming uh zell Jans or whatever, and
it's just fucking that's my beach house, that's my mountains house.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
That's my beach and mountain house.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
I can live without Wellbutrin, but you can't fucking live
without effects are what's effects for anxiety? And it does
this thing that everyone who's not taken it for a
day knows. It gives you this thing that they call
the zapps. Oh so you're just like you just your
brain kind of like gets to like a little ketch up, catcha.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's fucking creepy.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, this is gonna be a separate, separate topic. Okay,
And this is uh just because uh, if you have
an effects or pill, I would love to just look
at it for one second. I just want to see
what color it is. Not now after we'll talk about it.
But just I don't know. Pall me an effectsre.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Okays, no, you're asking for me.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I'm jokingly asking for you without involving you.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Got it.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Oh so the cops don't arrest us?

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Got it?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Well?

Speaker 3 (06:14):
I called CVS and I was like, Hi, I did
this thing, and like in a half an hour, they
gave me like two pills for today and tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh they covered you, fucking CVS. But then, how your
family lives in a pharmacy?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I was like, I can just ask.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
I could have asked the crowd for Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
But I don't want to take your pills.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Someone rolls up one of those little blacks's suitcases. I'm
actually an effects or rep. You're doing great business for
our company.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
However, if in nine months from now I'm pregnant, this is.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
The reason, Oh my god, that child would immediately become
a nun. You know how, like you're paint, you always
do the opposite thing that your parents want you to do.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Heay to congya slut.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, I guess I am all right. I meant I
was trying to think opposite of murder.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Oh, they get it.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Same dip.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's all sins, yeah, an e mt yes, or a murderer, right.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
I guess. Oh, this is a gorgeous rug. I wish
you could. You guys can see it, right, That's why
you paid top dollar for those seats up there.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
We'll be selling replications at the merch table after the.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Show, little mouse pads that are just this rug.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Oh really is lovely.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Oh, by the bye, this is my favorite murder.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Hey a true crime comedy rug podcast. That's Karen Kilgara.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
And that's Georgia Hartstar And we're all here to talk
about tragedy uh within within a uh a gazebo of comedy.
Let's say it that way. The tragedy is not funny,

(08:19):
but what we have a great time in this gazebo
around it.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be a sad gazebo or
a happy gazebo that.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
We're just there. It's a it's we contain.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Multitudes, and so does the gazebo.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
And and really bottom line is if you don't like it,
get the fuck up. People just start storming up the aisle.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Everyone who works are quits and just fucking leaves. No, no, no, no,
we don't know you we need you.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Uh no, let's see, it's real fucking cold here. Just
so oh I don't know. I'm sure you.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Know, but you guys know now right, I feel.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
When we left la it was eighty two.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Oh my god, they've turned on us. Listen.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
We don't use aerosol or not responsible for the We didn't.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Create this particular hole in the Oza.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
No.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Sorry, I feel like that the reason they're giving us
a spotlight is to recreate how it is in La
is A. It's a balmy seventy eight up here right.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Now, really is.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
We don't know how. I well, I don't know how
to dress in cold. I don't understand when when someone's
like it's twenty whatever, I'm like, well, I don't know
what that means. I'm gonna wear this cute trench coat.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
I'm just gonna just keep on keeping on with what
I've got going.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's all I got.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
And we it was again that thing where we step
out of the body of the airplane and that little
gap between the airplane and the walkway.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's like, what the.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Alaska it was snowball time. I was like, this is
super uncool.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
But but we're doing it.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
We did it and barred a coat to do it. No,
we love it. So I mean, if there's any place
to come and discuss tragic murders, Cleveland's got it going on,
you guys.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
I think Ohio as a whole, Like we could just
do Ohio over and over.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
This state drive. It doesn't always happen because sometimes, you know,
there's a lot of things that the qualifiers for a
live show story that you need, you know, a couple
of things going on, a couple elements in it, you know,
not just a straightforward horrible thing that happened. And uh man,
just Ohio keeps on giving it just like hand over fist.

(10:52):
How about this? Do you like clowns? What about rivers
catching on fire? What about fu? Fuck?

Speaker 2 (11:00):
What about clowns catching rivers on fire?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Could you imagine? What about a balloon drop that kills people?
That's real?

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Fuck Superman? He saves people?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
What about Superman?

Speaker 2 (11:14):
But you guys have made him up anyway.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
In the airport, there's, as you know, in your beautiful airport,
there's a Superman station where they're where Superman is hold
he's he's holding really still. And then there's a story
of Superman being broadcast allowed to everybody waiting for their bag,
which is nice. They should do that in every city.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Not with Superman.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
No, no, no, that would be a rip off.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, what would LA do?

Speaker 1 (11:42):
But there was a little like probably two year old
boy that was so stoked that Superman was in the airport.
But I thought he was saying souvenirs, and I was like,
that is the cutest thing in the world that he
wants to buy souvenirs. Meanwhile, Superman was five feet away
from me, just just eight feet tall and like a

(12:03):
man's voice blasting like Superman was invented, and I'm like, oh,
he said souvenirs. It's a toddler that loves keepsakes, keychains.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
He's got a collection of keychains.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
He's got little license plates for his bicycle.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
But he kept screaming Superman, and his dad would take get,
take him away from it, put him down, and the
kid would fucking rip back over to Superman. And he
was yelling at in a way that made me kind
of sad, because I can make anything sad.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
When you don't have your zell jams exactly whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Where it was just like he was screaming Superman and
like not understanding why the rest of us who are
like sad and old and like understand what life is like.
He was letting everyone know, and why isn't anyone like Superman?

Speaker 2 (12:50):
You guys?

Speaker 1 (12:51):
He's like, why are you facing that fucking luggage rotunda
that just keeps spinning, staring at it like moths to
a flame. Superman is right fucking there, right, so tragic
to be a child. Oh so stupid?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Right, you just don't know anything?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Fucking stupid, stupid, stupid.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Shouldn't do you?

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Wait a second? Is this a new seventies dress from
the last one?

Speaker 3 (13:22):
This is not the last seventies dress I had that
has cat hair on it. It's the other seventies dress.
It's a new hair on Oh shit, look at that.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
I mean it's just everyone I.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Was excited about it.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Oh, I mean the cat hair.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Oh no, this is I've had this before, but this
is sticking to my rule of only wearing comfortable seventies
and eighties dresses from now on.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Walk it down, walk it down the rug?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Look at her?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Oh yeah, oh and let's start up here.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Cut my own bag.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, girl, got to do it when you're out of
your pills and you got nothing to do.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, teeny tiny scissors, chit cho.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's right, let's talk about your You have a revelation,
uh for an exclamation?

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yep, couple when we I bought a new dress from,
of course, the fashion retailer Target, and right, I'm always
like twenty nine ninety nine. Hell yes, Then I'm surprised
when you uh it says you can wash it, but

(14:28):
you can't wash it. You can't. So I on the
where were we last the New Orleans knowledge?

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Uh the first night I went out in that dress
having had washed it. Then afterwards people are so kind
to post pictures of my middle aged ass on stage,
and it looked like I had thrown on a child's romper,
had been like watch this, this will be fucking hilarious,
and then gone out on stage mortified. So of course

(15:00):
I do my backup outfit, which is I keep ending
up in my backup outfits.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
You can't call them that anymore.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
I can't. This is the front up outfit. I just
want to I, like many of you, just want to
wear pajamas in public.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
So oh, we had a new idea of A come
as you listen, Yes, right, just come the way you listen?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Do you work out when you listen to podcast?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Are you a doctor?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Come in your scrubs poop?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Are you a clinique a helper?

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Bring us clinique where you're bring.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Us clinique and your white clinique fake doctor's outfit? You
fake clinique, bitches? What that's how I that's how you
find out? I'm land Comb hardcore hardcore land Comb till
I dot.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
A placement, product placement, product placement, just a.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Dollar bills falling from the ceiling.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Also, but this is your farewell tour of the South A.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yes, that's right. I'm gonna burn this when I get home.
I also just can't find the time to make myself
look nice, so I overcompensate with the hair, and then
I see what happens.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
I dig it.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
The hair is great.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's fun. I mean you think like you're you're at
a historic theater. Uh where the huge show with a
ton of people, wear your sweats? Where your sweats? Why
even have this opportunity and power if you can't abuse
it terribly well, if.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
You show that you care, then they won't respect you.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
That's exactly right. That's when they start using you.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Well, like how they say I've heard like on improvates
like don't dress cute because they they'll be mad at you,
so they won't laugh at your shit. Where it's like, well,
I just want to dress cute all the time.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, oh, or be good at improv. There's always that.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah sorry, one girl on the team that we had
to put on you can't you can't dress like you
like yourself.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, exactly, fuck you, fuck you and your rules. Wait,
what do we work this about? Now? There's an improv
team in the center of this audiotest, like they're finally
saying what I've always wanted to say.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Hey, the down Should we sit down? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
I like a mid height kind of high low chair,
so it'll be interesting. Usually the seats up here and
there's a lot of danger for me and getting into it. Boom,
done and done.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Does anyone have a phone book? Do they still make
phone books or phone books?

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Do they make them only for you to throw them away? Oh?

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Good, I just want to Yeah, this is going to
go to the hometown murder person. I'm sorry, We're get
your cookies away, but we can't eat all of them.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Okay, let's get real, let's get reality.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Okay, it's me okay, and I'm excited because we don't
always have control over our own images. But tonight, tonight, tonight,
we have control. We can go back and forth.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
And in.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
The last I believe it was Nashville. Wasn't that the
one we were like? And so they got married and
there's a picture of them as a couple, and then
it was like two three, four, five six.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
It made for great comedy just to be like, it's
still up there, it's still up there this time.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's not happening.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Unless we do it to ourselves, which we absolutely will. Okay, guys,
there's again we said it. So many people to choose from,
so many, so many classics, but when I looked up
this story, I couldn't not do it. And I don't
know if you know it. It's the unbelievable story of

(19:12):
serial killer Ed Edwards.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Oh my god, do you know it? Of course?

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Dude? There he is now no ed Edwards, Edward Edwards
not his real name, if you can believe that. Okay,
So today, in looking this up, Steve steven sends us
all of our links. He does a lot of like
ground Steve that he does a lot of research for us,

(19:39):
which is great. But then I stumbled there's a show
and a lot of you probably have heard of it
or is watched it, but I never have because I'm
almost fifty. It's on YouTube and it's called brain Scratch.
Have you watched it? Guy? He's that Okay, it's so good.
It's a guy. Okay, this is These are the guys.

(19:59):
It's a guy named John Lorden, and he basically takes
you through these cases, like he started this one by
reading the Wikipedia page, which so I'm like, that's my thing.
But he basically is like pulls you through all the
research all that like amazing stuff where I'm like, oh,
these are the people that hate our show. We're like, oh,

(20:20):
they care about facts and dates. But it's you have
to watch it because it's not just this case. He's
got shows about all the all the true crime stories
that interest you and they're really cool. So and because
of the show, I had a nervous breakdown around two
PM because this story changed quite violently near the middle end.

(20:43):
So let me just we'll just walk you through it.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
So did you think like, I got this story.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Everything's fine. It straight forward as a Sarah killer. Here
we go, Yes, and then found out some secret shit
about him. I think I know one of the secret things.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
And I'm excited. Get away. I'm excited our first fight.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
It's blaink it's plain. No, no, no, there's a nine
on it. Page nine.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
I did you a favor?

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Okay, yeah, we didn't need that anyway. Should we raffle
this off? Guys? Come on? Also, there's just so you know,
there's not eight pages. Okay, look at page eight. Is
that was a mistake? Okay? Edward Edwards who was born
Charles Murray?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
What is his name? What if born in Charles Charles
Murray Murray, don't worry Edward Edwards.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Edward Edwards born Bill Murray. What I knew that guy
was suspicious when he kept dropping in on everyone's wedding. Okay?
He was born in Akron, that's right, Akron on June fourteenth,
nineteen thirty three. He was illegitimate and this is fucking

(22:01):
horrible and really heavy. When he was around five, he
witnessed his mother's suicide. O horrifying. So a couple of
years later, he goes there's they send him to an
orphanage in Parma. Uh. I'm two for due with these
city pronouncements. I can't. I'm so stoked.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
It's good.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Fuck we didn't ask anybody about that.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's no yes with a sea. No, that's not right.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
We hold on. I just need the people up there
to know, all of a sudden, Willowe, that's not the
one we need it. But just so you know, everyone
in the front just started naming cities they think we
can't pronounce.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Raised hand just whatever came to mind. Kayah, what is it?

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Cuyahoga, Kyahoga? But anyone like that? Anyone? Wait, the Cuyahoga River.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh, I know that one.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
That's not the same as the city you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
I might have made up a word.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
No you didn't. That city's in mind too. We're gonna
pick one person you're not helping. You said you just
said kaya Hogo was the city we're trying.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
It's not about.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
And that's fucking insanity. I bet you're not even from here. Ooh,
she's given me the eye.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
No she's crying.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Oh oh sorry, I donut my glasses on. I thought
you wanted to fight me. Sorry, when the time comes,
I'm going to ask you what the city name is.
Stop crying so that you don't like you're let the
swelling go down. Gets later on, it's around page five. Okay, okay,

(23:46):
So he gets sent to this orphanage. Later on in life,
he claims that the nuns there beat him physically and
emotionally abused him, which is very easy to believe. But
then he blames his later life of criminal insanity on that.
We call bullshade always on that. So no ed So.
He also claimed that when a Nunn asked him when

(24:09):
he was little what he wanted to be when he
grew up, he said, quote, sister, I'm going to be
a crook, and I'm going to be a good one.
So in nineteen forty eight, when he was fifteen, he
was sent to a reform school in Pennsylvania, and two
years later.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I think you pronounced that right, No, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
So two years later he returned to Akron and he
started committing burglaries. Then he he basically he got to
switch out. He was in juvenile detention. They said, if
you join the Marines, you can leave here, and he's like,
sounds great, almost immediately goes a walk from Camp Lejune
in North Carolina. Just people from everywhere in Cleveland. How

(24:55):
about Paris, France? Really no, I've heard of pairs France. Okay,
you guys are fun. So in April of nineteen fifty two,

(25:16):
oh shit, it's on page one.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Okay, show her. You guys are gonna.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
Say that city chili coffee, nothing like cooy ho gu.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Chili coffee.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Chili coffee.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
You guys thought that that was the one we could pronounce.
Nobody fucking yelled at.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
You're dead.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
She did stop talking.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Even though I just had a full conversation with her.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Okay, but she raised her hand. That's true.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yes, we need to him in place. Okay. So the
reason he went to chilli coffee is if I've always
known it, uh for two years, is because he was
impersonating a marine and he stole a car and went
across state lines. So he ends up getting dishonorably discharged
from the Marines. According to him, because later on you'll see,

(26:20):
he wrote an autobiography, so he yes, my least favorite thing.
He described himself as being ruggedly handsome and equally cunning,
which doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Was he either?

Speaker 1 (26:34):
So he's he's saying he's ruggedly cunning. Yeah, he's cunning
like a mountain is handsome. He was equally handsome to
a rugged cunning cu cunning. He claimed to have spent
his twenties hitchhiking, forging checks, and having sex all across
the country too. Oh my god, in your twenties when

(26:58):
you forged that first check and you're like, I'm myself.
Finally I know who I am. Okay, let's you may
have seen this guy before. Wonderful?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh I think that which goes that way? Yeah? Oh
right up those nostrils?

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Was he in sublime now that I look at it
this way? Fake beauty mark. They used to always do
that in the sixties. It's probably sh started as, is it,
and they just painted black.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
With the wish he had full lips too.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
He's starting a little Stephen mustache, buto, or maybe he
just has large upper lips surface. Anyway, remember that face.
It's gonna come up later. Picture it right now, wearing glasses. Okay,
then we're gonna stop talking about it. Okay. So uh

(27:56):
uh uh. He claims that, after being held on burglary charges,
an Apron. In nineteen fifty five, he broke out of
prison by pushing past a guard.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Oh yeah, just being rude.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Well you watch it, well, excuse oose me. That's how
lots of prisons work. It was a honor based into
his honor system prison. It's like you promised, you promised
to stay here and not push.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So then he fled across the country, holding up gas
stations for money as he went. And he said that
during that time he never wore a mask because he
wanted to be famous. You're right, So.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
After been a YouTuber?

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Did I?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I bet he would have been a YouTuber.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
So after a series of armed robberies in nineteen fifty six,
six Woo, he was arrested in Montana and he was
sentenced to the penitentiary and deer Lodge. Okay, so he's
released from there. Thanks clear the cookie area, thank you.
He was released from there in July of nineteen fifty nine.
But then he was taken to Portland to stand trial

(29:05):
for two armed robberies in nineteen fifty six. So they
like were like, oh, that's the guy from our thing,
bring him over there. He gets there, he's sentenced to
five years probation. But while he's there, Uh oh no, sorry,
this is different time. Wait while he's there or another time.
This guy literally did so many fucking crimes. The idea

(29:26):
that he just kept getting paroled and getting out really
is the reflection of the time and the color of
his fucking skin. I'll tell you that, because it's so nuts.
It's just like, oh, you, you held up another gas station.
You know what, We're gonna go ahead and give you
a slap on the wrist. Get out of here, you nut.

(29:48):
So he he stood trial in Portland for two armed
robberies in fifty six. Then he broke out of jail
in nineteen sixty in Portland, where he'd this could this
could be a serious Wikipedia mistake I made. But it
says here where he'd been arrested for pulling a false
fire alarm.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
It was a big deal back then. I mean, it
wasn't it like a fucking prank that nerds did.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
No, that was like, you know why, because back then
you couldn't just reset a fire alarm. Once you pulled
it, it was broken forever. It's not true, okay, But while
they had him there for the false fire alarm, he
was questioned in connection with the double murder of a
young couple from Portland named Beverly Allen and Larry Peyton,
but no charges were filed. They could only question him

(30:34):
or they only questioned him. So then, so he's broken
out of jail and Portland they're looking for him. He's
traced to Colorado, where he Oh, it just you don't
seem like you mean it. So I don't know how
to live there.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
They're here now, so they're like, eh, they're okay, childhood
but happy to be here now.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
I'm happy to be here. The air's a little thick
for me. Okay. Here's how they traced him to Colorado.
He had he'd been cashing checks from the Portland Bowling Club,
which he was a member of in Portland.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
They had their own checks.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, I guess he was the treasurer of the Portland
Bowling Club or friends with the treasurer. And apparently they
had tens of thousands of dollars in the kitty. Do
you know, I'm just kidding. Oh.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
I was like, I gott to join a boiler a
bowling league, A boiling league.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
I'm going to join a boiling lea.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
How funny that would have been if I could have
said it correctly.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
If you would just start a boiling league where you
make hard boiled eggs and spaghetti, I could join that
top ramen.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Easy.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Okay, Just can someone write down the boiling league for
a TV pitch that we're gonna do Food Network? No, yeaestema,
I'll get it. You don't have to worry about it. Okay. So,
because of all this and they can't find him, the
bowling leg and all that shit, in November of nineteen
sixty one, the FBI places him on the ten most
Wanted list, which is what he wanted. It's all about

(32:20):
crossing state lines when he was confined after a robbery conviction.
They've got him on all this stuff. So he's captured
two months later in Atlanta with his wife. Now he
is a wife. All the sudme how did he find
time to date with all the robberies and pushing of
prison guards that he had been doing. Still there was
time for love, and Ed Edwards made it.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
You think he met her on the bowling league.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
He was like, that throat is hot. I'm gonna buy
her a corn dog. See where this thing goes?

Speaker 2 (32:52):
You've yeah, you know I do love bowling though, you
know I love corn dogs. Oh hello, I love bowling too.
Why don't we? Why are we podcasting right now? We can?

Speaker 1 (33:07):
There's got to be a bowling league we can join
around here. Okay, oh my god, everybody's got something to
yell about tonight. I love that there's a bowling league.
Bowling league came tonight, the True Crime Love and Bowling
League in Cleveland. Hell, yes, okay, So they send him

(33:32):
when they can finally capture him, when he's on the
ten most wanted list, they send him to Levenworth for
sixteen years. He's paroled five years later. Of course, they
just don't want him to stay. So this is where
Ed the Conman takes over. So he gets out of
Levenworth and he claims that a benevolent guard that he

(33:53):
met in Levenworth. I didn't that's a cut and paste word.
I would never use it, but a kindly guard. It
had helped him reform while he was in jail. And
now he wrote a book on his life of being
a lifelong criminal called The Metamorphosis of a Criminal Colon
The True Life Story of Ed Edward's Fake name. True

(34:17):
Life Story of a Fake name. Yeah, so that he
releases that in nineteen seventy two, and he based and
he starts, he goes on the circuit and becomes an
inspirational speaker. Yes, hold the phone. What oh that's the fam.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Oh he has children.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah. Oh yeah, he ends up him. That's him up there. Yeah,
he's gained some weight. Let's not be critical. That's what
happens when you settle down. Look, she has my bangs
a little You think she cut those herself too. She
cut those herself after a couple of white wines.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
You know me, you know it.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
They they end up having five kids.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Gap. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
And this is him as a family.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Man, all right. Oh, and then we're gonna and then.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
We're just gonna show you. This is This was a
it's a recording of his inspirational speech called uh it
says there. Ed Edwards says, build a fire in the person,
not under them, Build a fire in the person, not
under them.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
I feel like that was the first draft and he
should have kept going yeah with that.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
A lot of times when you're trying to pick a title,
it's good to like spitball three, four ten ideas.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Also, that smile is so creepy. Anyone looks that happy
as a fucking monster.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yes, it looks like he like he takes the bottom
half of his face off at night. It's a weird thought, Karen,
that's a weird thought.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
It's like all he knows about smiling as you just
have to scrunch your entire face into the middle.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yes you no, move this part down, keep these very still.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Eh eh, we did it. We really have. So everybody
gets real inspired by his inspirational, motivational speaking, and he
ends up going on to television shows in nineteen seventy
two to Tell the Truth program, which I'm sure you
loved back then, and a show called What's My Line?

(36:22):
He was this is to tell the Truth, where so
a panel would have to figure out if you were
lying about your life story.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Serial killer. Yep, hey a liar. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Okay, I'm sorry, but I feel like that to tell
the truth, FONT needs to come back. And then also
those whatever those robot.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Things are back there. They're like penis robots.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Just what are they?

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I didn't want to.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Say it the first time she said Penis robots out
loud to my face. I just like shows. Things looked
like this when I was very small, So when I
see it again, it just.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Like makes you happy.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
It does a little bit, but then it also is like, oh, also,
i'm alone, like someone put me in a room alone.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
It takes you back to a time when you loved souvenirs, right, God.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I remember when I loved souvenirs. All right. So he's
basically a kind of a pseudo celebrity. Everybody loves the
idea that a man who was a lifelong criminal went
into prison and a benevolent prison guard helped him see,
you know, his way to living a life of lighting

(37:41):
fires inside of people. I'm very inspired by that.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
That really were how the story ended. It'd be a
beautiful web story, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
And then he lit several people on phone. Oh not that, just.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Like legitimately, if your reform, Oh yeah, it would be
a great story.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
The part would be fun too.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
It's it's the idea that I like a lot of
times when we talk about things like this, when you're like,
how did this person get away with this for so long?
It's because other people want it to be true. So
then when it starts to flake away of this is
in no way true, You're like, no, but it is true.
He wa, he wa, he lit a fire inside me.

(38:18):
So the fame drives up, of course, as it always does.
And I hope you remember that this is all We're
all on a clock here. So he goes back to
the skill that he learned in prison, which is carpentry.
I mean, I'm a handyman. He buys a house in
nineteen seventy four, he buys a house in Doyleston and Ohio.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
And everyone hates it.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
No one fucking cheer or I'm saying it wrong. Doyleston sucks, Doylestown.
There's no W in this.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Good not to be the one fucking ones Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
It's a W. I mean, it's a silent, invisible W.
Thank you, finally someone being helpful. Okay. In Doyle's town,

(39:25):
he builds a house, uh for his or he remodels
house for himself and his wife and five kids, and
and then around town. He becomes this family man. And
of course he does the thing that all great psychopaths do.
He begins to try to ingratiate himself with the police.
So he hangs out. Although he's a big talker, not

(39:45):
a not a big drinker, but he hangs out in bars, listens,
gets people to talk to him, and then basically becomes
a snitch. So he starts telling the police about local
crimes that he's heard about, and and he hangs out
with the police. They hang out at their house. Basically,

(40:10):
they come home one night and their house is burning
down and the police and the fire department find evidence
of arson. And so Edwards tells his family that some
criminal he informed on found out that he was the
snitch and so that now we have to go on
the run. And so he starts moving his family to

(40:32):
a new state like every six months or so. Because
it turns out that ed Edwards is going to shock you.
He was not reformed in Love and War.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, his record was bullshited, even though the cover was beautiful.
So real quick, we're going to skip ahead to nineteen
eighty to this cold case. So in the August of
nineteen eighty in Jefferson County, Wisconsin, a young couple, Oh sorry,
my CAB's here, I have to go. Why that's the

(41:07):
Jefferson County bird caller when he's here tonight or she
women can whistle too, Karen Okay. So August of nineteen eighty,
a young couple named Tim Hack and Kelly Drew. They
go to a wedding reception at a place called the
Conquered House, which was this big place where they held

(41:28):
There was like two wedding receptions being held there that night.
They're both nineteen years old. They were high school sweethearts.
They left the party together, the reception together, and they
were never seen again. The next day, Tim's dad goes
to the Conquered House, finds Tim's car still in the
parking lot. Then five days later they start finding pieces

(41:50):
of Kelly Drew's clothing, like out in the country. We'll
have the whole thing's out in the country but around
So then the police have to go in in interview
everybody that was at the Conquered House that night, all
the guests from both weddings, and they end up with
no leads. There's no clues, and the case goes cold.

(42:12):
Two months later, their bodies were found. Tim Hack had
been stabbed to death, Kelly Drew had been strangled, and
that's when this case became known in Wisconsin as the
Sweetheart murders. And it was cold for decades. So almost
twenty nine years later, This is in two thousand and nine.

(42:33):
The state of Wisconsin gets a cold case grant and
they get to reopen five cold cases, and the Sweetheart
murders are one of them. So what they do is
they go in, they get Kelly's clothing and they find
DNA on it, and they send it to the lab
to get tested to see if they can match it.
And they they do find DNA from semen on her pants,

(42:53):
and so once they know that they might be able
to match it, the police make this announcement to the public.
If anybody has any information about these two young people's murders,
anybody that was at the conquered house that night, any anything,
we want to hear from you. Well. At the same time,

(43:15):
a forty eight year old mother of two named April
Belaccio had been reading reading up on cold cases. She
read this article and when she sees the picture of
the conquered house, she stops cold because she remembers when
her family lived in Jefferson County, and she remembered that
her father had been the handyman at the conquered house,

(43:35):
and she remembered that two days after the that's right,
I'm building up to it. Slowly. Two days after the
couple disappeared, her father woke the family up in the
middle of the night, put them all in a car,
and moved to Pennsylvania. Her father was ed edwards, that's right,
she has she had, that's right. I think that was

(43:56):
the mom. That was the mom. This is the daughter.
So that's one of those babies.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, the daughter had My bad, Oh they didn't.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I thought you meant the mom.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I don't know the daughter.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Okay, forget it. I was looking at that mom's calick
going like, oh, take me forever to blow the dry
that out and make that work.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh my god, Okay, this is very exciting.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Uh So here's how here's went down. And she basically
is this is like I feel like it's kind of
what we're all in it for. Where you read an
article and suddenly you get cold chills and you're like,
I know that face, I'm the witness that you need
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Well, did you see some girl did it today about
the Bachelor?

Speaker 1 (44:30):
What did you see the Bachelor?

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Some fucking girl?

Speaker 3 (44:36):
There's like a missing photo in a fucking humble, humble
times of like, look at all these missing people and
some girl like some fucking girl isn't a true climb
clearly looking at me, He's like that girl's a contestant
on the Bachelor, right.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Ah, she's on the Bachelor. It's really her. Holy shit,
she told.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Her mom she was going to work at a marijuana
farm instead of telling her she's gonna be on the.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Bachelor because her mom would be too ashamed.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yeah, but I'm thinking that maybe the Bachelor is a
front for a marijuana farm.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Ooh, they all work.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
That would explain a lot of stuff on that show.
What what if the rose that the guy gives is
just paint red red painted pot.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Or yeah, that's how they traffic the stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Out of there. Will you take this across state lines
and be my bride?

Speaker 2 (45:25):
That's right?

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Uh, okay, off topic, anyhow, we're back. So a couple
of years after they moved to Pennsylvania in nineteen eighty two,
she then remembers that one night her mom had been
in the hospital for an injury, her dad took all
the kids camping and spent the night. When they went
home the next day, their house had been burned down.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Because also, who the fuck wants the Hey, kids, your
mom's in the hospital, really sick.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Well, let's go camping the woods.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
This had been the third time that their house had
been burned down. Now it supported this theory that or
this storyline that he was giving his family of bad
guys are after us, and they're trying to get me
because I was a snitch. Well, to April surprise, her
three brothers went to the police and said, we're the
ones that burned the house down because our dad made

(46:18):
us do it. So in nineteen eighty two, Ed Edwards
was arrested for arson and he was sentenced to two
years in prison in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
I guess when you burn your own house now, they
don't care that much.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
It's your fucking house. Yeah, don't light stuff on fire,
but whatever you did it. He got out in nineteen
eighty seven, and then now he decides he's going to
be the family man. He's going to rededicate himself to
this family. So he comes back and one of the
sons is went off to college, but he still has
the four kids at home, plus a boy named Danny

(46:54):
Glockner who is one of his son's friends. They all
went to high school. Danny came from a really troubled
family here in Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
More trouble than your dad is. Yeah, you know, fuck
an arsonist.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
He thought he was going to the perfect family. So
he starts hanging out. He becomes like a member of
the family and he stays with them for years. Actually, uh,
Ed tried to adopt him and the judge was like, no,
he's nineteen. But the judge did allow Danny to change

(47:30):
his name from Danny Glockner to Danny Boy Edwards. Yeah,
so h yeah, I don't like it either. So then
Danny joined after high school. Ed encouraged Danny to join
the military, and so he hurt his ankle. How this

(47:52):
fucking story go. He hurt his ankle and he was
gonna get discharged, and so he was telling Ed about
that problem, and Ed was like, uh. He basically was like,
that's it's such a disgrace if you get discharged from
the army. Whatever. So that guy was dishonorably discharged, so
he would know. So Danny ends up going a wall

(48:16):
two days before he was supposed to be medically discharged
from the army, and he remains missing for a year,
and apparently Ed Edwards was obsessed with the fact that
he was missing, and he told the police he was
going to do everything he could to try to find Danny.
A year later, hunters find a shallow grave in the
woods behind the cemetery in a city. It's Danny Boy

(48:37):
Edwards and he'd been shot to death in the back
of the head. Oh my god, So ed Edwards is distraught.
He's going crazy about it. At Danny's funeral, he is
asking people, what do you think happened to Danny? Uh huh,
very appropriate. So that case ends up going cold. The
police can't find any leads about that. So you're pass

(49:01):
and all five of the Edwards kids are sitting they're
all grown up now, April has her own last name.
They're all talking about Danny's murder and what they think
could have happened. And one of the older kids brings
up the fact, you know mom, in nineteen eighty two,
Mom was in the hospital, but you remember why she
was in the hospital. Dad stabbed her. Yes, so they

(49:25):
didn't not all the kids knew this, so they all
start like sharing this information. Apparently.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Oh man, when kids, when fucking siblings get high together,
shit comes at Yeah, that's right, right.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's like it takes like one Thanksgiving party where everyone
has a little too much baileyes, and it's like, well guess.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
What, uh huh, that didn't happen that way. You don't
remember it.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh you think you Aunt Carol's so great. Listen, well
this is even more horrifying. Apparently Ed Edwards came home
one day and he won. There was a bag of
potato chips he wanted to eat, and he found it
half eaten. Because there's fucking ninety seven kids in their family,
and that's all that happens when you have more than

(50:06):
two children in the family, it's an eating contest. He
finds out that the bag's been half eaten, and he
stabs his wife over it.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
But I still half left. I mean, also, don't stab
your wife.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
But like, no, you're right, there's tons of problems, tons
of problems. I just picked one with that reaction. Yeah,
he really went He really went straight to sixty. He
didn't even there was no discussion. There's no who did
this sit down respecting people's potato chips. Okay, But so

(50:43):
it's the older kids going this is what, this is
this and this is that. And then we came home
and then then our house was burned down for them
one millionth time. So April starts to realize her father
is not the person she remembers him to be. And
she was only eleven years old when the Sweetheart murders
happened in Wisconsin, but she did remember that her father
was the handyman at the Conquered house, and she also

(51:05):
remembers that he came home that night, the night that
they disappeared, with a cut on his nose and a
black eye, and he told his wife he had been
in a fight. But then later when the police came
to question him, because he was the handyman, he told
the police that it was from a hunting accident. So
he changed his story, and April remembered that she said,
as she saw that picture and like as the city

(51:26):
name and the place where he worked, it was all
coming together and she started having like these weird recovered
memories that the information. Yeah, so he tells the cops
hunting accident, and then two days later they move away
in the middle of the night, which is the It
is a good time to move because there's not a
traffic is better. Yeah, you're not like boxes back and

(51:49):
forth to the car.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Sweating sunburns. That's the problems.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
I'm not sure what's next here. Oh him, I wanted
you to see that jacket that he wore on to
tell that truth. I don't know if his wife sewed
it for him off the couch or what the fuck happened.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
But he looks like, you know, an evangelical preacher or something.
He does, actually he does an all American person.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
He looks like a different another kind of person that
could light a fire inside you.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Not under with the lord. Oh shit, don't.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Look what is that is where it gets good?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Okay, I know, I know, and I have to hurry
up because it's taken too long. But essentially so, April
calls Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. She talks to Detective Chad Garcia,
and she's basically like, my dad fucking killed it is
responsible for the Sweetheart murders. So this detective who I'm

(52:56):
in love with. Of course, he he looks up the case.
He rereads the interview. He sees where ed Edwards said
that his injuries were from a hunting accident, which is insane,
like clearly fight injuries, and he's like, oh, I hit
myself in the face with the gun twice. Then he

(53:17):
reads Ed Edwards's book, The Metamorphosis of a Criminal and
sees that this guy's basically fucking nuts out of his mind.
So three weeks later he calls April lets her know
that the DNA that they took from Kelly Drew's pant,
that sample that they sent it into the lab and
they also got DNA from Ed Edwards and it was

(53:39):
a match. So they extra died him back to Wisconsin
to charge him with a double murder. So at this point,
old Ed Edwards is seventy seven, he's got like permanent
oxygen tank, he's got diabetes, he's very overweight, in very
poor health. He knows they have him for the Sweetheart murders,
but when he's in custody, he finds out that Wisconsin

(54:01):
does not have the death penalty. So he writes a
letter to the Ohio authorities and says, you're going to
want to come talk to me because I got some
shit to say to you. And so the cops from
Ohio come up, and then he starts confessing to the
nineteen seventy seven unsolved murder case of eighteen year old
Judah Stroud and twenty one year old Bill Avaco, who

(54:25):
had both been shot in the neck while they were
in a car. It was another lover's lane situation. Their
bodies had been left in a public park. Then he
confesses to the nineteen ninety six murder of his own
foster son, Danny Boy. That's right, he had ed to.
What really had happened was ed had convinced Danny to
go a wall from the army said, come out into

(54:47):
the woods. I'm going to show you how you get
out of how you get out of military duty, and
Danny's thinking he's going to show him some like shoot
yourself in the pand or whatever it is, and that's
when Ed Edwards shot him point blank. And it turns
out that Edwards was planning to cash in Danny's two
hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy, which he

(55:08):
never got to do so in the end, after all
of that, at Edward's pled guilty to five murders, he
asked for the death penalty, they said nobody. Instead he
got four life sentences. But don't get too excited because
he was only in jail a month and then he
died of natural stupid bastard, Okay, now, Detective Chad Garcia

(55:32):
of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office says he is quote
pretty confident that there are at least five to seven
more murders Ed Edwards committed, and he gave a list
of fifteen confirmed and suspected victims. So they have all
these murders that hook into the timeline of Ed Edwards,
which brings me to the mental breakdown part of the story,

(55:54):
because as I'm watching Brain Scratch.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Your mental breakdown, I thought you meant.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
His Oh now okay, now he's gone. Now. So remember
in the show, I think you did Nathan Barjona on
this show. So we've often recommended the TV show Real Detectives,
where real detectives tell you the story of cases that
they had to work on and ended up closing and
so on that show. On the episode about Nathan Barjona,

(56:18):
the most hideous child killer of all time, I.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Mean, that's a fucking contest to win.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, I mean you really, there's a lot of competition,
but that one bummed me out incredibly badly. Nothing else
bothers me on this show, it's all so fun. But
on that show, former police detective John Cameron is the
detective that's explaining that story, and he's the one that

(56:43):
closed that case.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
So John Cameron has written a book called It's Me Edward,
Wayne Edwards, the serial Killer You've Never Heard Of, And
in the book he details the murders that Edwards has
been convicted of. Then he provides analysis and argument for
a bunch of other murders that he thinks that Edwards
is could be responsible for, including the murder of Adam

(57:07):
Walsh in nineteen nineteen eighty one, the murder of Jean
bonname Ramsay in nineteen ninety six. But he was in Boulder,
was in Boulder. He was in Bolder, and he looked
like Santa Claus. Shit, he looked like Santa Claus.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
I'm okay, I buy it.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Okay, thank you. You just have to say it twice
and then you're convinced.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Say it, really it looks like Santa Claus.

Speaker 5 (57:31):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
And then the robin Hood Hills murders of Stevie Branch,
Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore. Now this is, of course,
all of this is like, it's it's theory, it's conjecture.
But so you know how, and April says this in
her there's any of your interview of hers where she
talks about remembering how her father, as we said, ingratiating

(57:53):
himself with the police. He was obsessed with police procedure
of going in and basically watching the crime that he
committed that other people were getting sent to jail for.
He liked to go in and kind of stand around
and be like interesting. So in the documentary that we've
all seen of the West Memphis three, there's this very

(58:14):
famous scene where these parents are at their son's grave.
I believe this is Christopher Buyer's parents. It's the saddest
thing in the world at at the grave and then
in the background.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
No, no, no, yeah, is that him?

Speaker 1 (58:31):
That's they say it's him? Now a lot of dudes
look like that. So it's like it does look like
Santa on vacation for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Does he have money in his hand?

Speaker 1 (58:46):
I don't know what the fuck? If you watch you
can see it in the clip, and it's just the
documentary just cuts away like there's other people at the
cemetery that will they believe that this is him at
the cemetery? Shit, well, guess what else in making a
murderer that's him? In the hallway behind the lawyers say sure,

(59:07):
it's him.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
They know it's him.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
That is him, because you'll see there's oh shit. I
don't think I have pictures of him later, but basically
you can see he's like, yeah, it's big. He has
a real pointy, kind of downward facing nose. And anyway,
that John Cameron theorizes that he set up Stephen Avery
because he holds on he lived an hour away at

(59:33):
the time of Teresa Halbeck's murder, and she disappeared on
Halloween night, and he killed people on Halloween night. That's
a bunch of the they traced. Uh. I feel like
now people are yelling at me. I don't like it
at all. This is not my fucking theory. It stressed
me out more than you don't like it. Imagine me

(59:55):
at three o'clock thinking I was done with my homework
and then this shit pops up, and it's the most
interesting theory I've ever heard in my life. You got
him back.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
They're back, they're back, and they love you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
They love it. Okay, okay, okay, he's basically the Zelig
of modern murder, this man. But there's one more. Oh yes,
that's right. John Cameron says that Ed Edwards is the
Zodiac Killer. Sorry, Ted Cruz, that's what I only got

(01:00:36):
to this part of the story. I got it to
this part at like what six o'clock, and I was
that was past the pictures point. You can't I can't
get Stephen pictures past like five point thirty or whatever.
So this is where you would see a side by
side of early ed Edwards and that drawing of this
of the Zodiac where he has glasses. Oh my god,
I'm seeing my brain a fucking plain whitkeye face and

(01:01:00):
appoint he knows And if you just had some glasses on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Like kind of pin lipped, right, is it him? Did
you think you did?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Yeah, it's him. It's definitely him. Well, here, here's the
here's the thing. Uh. He lived in northern California in
the sixties. He at the same time as each of
the Zodiac's murders, and some claim that he closely matches
that original description. Others say fuck no. But April at

(01:01:33):
Edward's daughter, says that he used to make the kids
watch videos about the Zodiac Killer, and while they watched it,
he would scream, that's not how it happens.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I want her hometown murder fucking told dude, she.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Just gets up and walks on stage. Give me that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
At done, so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Essentially to learn more about this cave. There's so I mean,
like I was going totally insane. So basically, if you
want to see April talk about how her father is
a serial killer. It two weeks ago on Investigation Discovery,
there's a show called People Magazine Investigates and right, we

(01:02:19):
all love People Magazine. It's the true crime Bible murderers.
They're just like, as the show was called, My Father
the serial Killer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Oh my god, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
April telling this whole story. It's super awesome. But also
on Spike TV, they produce a six part documentary documentary
series based on John Cameron's theories called It Was Him
with Ed Edwards's grandson, a guy named Wayne Wolf, and
they both go in and explore all John Cameron's theories

(01:02:54):
about where he was and how he possibly could be
involved in pretty much every famous of modern time. Yeah,
basically that's the story of Ed Edwards. There's lots more.
Sorry that took so long. There might be one more

(01:03:16):
picture on there, but I don't know what.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Yeah, I don't want to show mine roller fucking coaster ride?

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
That was That was?

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
That was insanity. Go on to brain scratchers dot com
because it has like all the research. It has all
this stuff, like raw research that this guy has collected
and it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
That was bananas. Yeah, now that I am pilled up
and ready to go, Yeah, okay, are you guys ready
for a fucked up story?

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
I had never fucking heard of this. Oh it's bananas.
The Kirtland cult killings.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Oh shit, Holy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Do you know this?

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I do not? All right? And god damn it, I
love a cult.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
I know you do. Yeah, I know you do. This
is the worst mass murder in the history of Lake County.
Fuck mass murderers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah, really quick. I feel like we should have explained
this before to the people who are brought here tonight
against their will.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I don't know the about the podcast. All the people
who work here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Partners of people who were like, I don't want you,
but you did the thing with me, so I'll go.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
To this with you. I didn't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
When you hear this cheering, it is not cheering for death.
Nobody's cheering for that. It's more of like we've all
been sitting alone with this information for so long, and
now we get to do it together.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
All right, does that help?

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
So, Curtlyn, cult killing's okay, So let's talk about the
cult leader first, Okay, fucking this dick, Jeffrey Lundgren. He
was born in May of nineteen fifteen, Independence, Missouri. He's
the child of super no one cheers, Nope, okay, No
Mormon's here. Okay, He's a child of strict, super religious parents.
They're members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of

(01:05:09):
Latter day Saints.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
It's a small offshoot of Mormonism.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Unlike most religions.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
They're open to the idea of modern day prophets, right,
so okay, yeah. So according to sources, he Jeffrey was
severely abused as a child, and he was a loner
throughout high school. But as he grew into adulthood he
became a religious fanatic. He was excellent memorizing verses in
the Bible and the Church.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Of Mormon book yep, the Book of Mormon, you know,
but from the Church, which.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
He studied endlessly. So he's obsessed with religion. He goes
to Central Central Missouri State University and he spends his.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
But you don't like the city, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
He uh.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
He hangs out at a house for RLDS youth and
he meets another student there named Alice Keeler. She had
been told by a church elder that she was destined
to marry a great church leader. So when she finds
Jeffrey Langern, who's like, Hey, what's up. I'm a modern
day prophet.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Here's here. Listen to me spout all this fucking Bible shit.
I memorized, you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Know, college stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
You know what I mean? Yeah, I know the book
from Mormon. What's up.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
She's like, oh shit, Oh this is him. Fuck, it's him,
This is it's him. So but they start fooling around
out of wedlock.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Which they're not supposed to do. No, unacceptable, right, And
so Alice gets pregnant and then Jeffrey flunks out of
college whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
They get married. Oh I forgot that. That's the college
that we cheer for is people who flunked out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, flunk outs. Yeah it can work too. Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
They get married in by nineteen eighty, they have four children.
They're all still super religious, and by this time he'stars
telling jeffreystar was telling his wife that he had visions
that he was at the crucifixion and that he was
with Christ when he died, and he can see and
he can also see the future.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Just really quick, just to point out, people never have
visions where like I was at the crucifixion, but I
was way in the back and there's like a there's
a tall guy in front of me, talked really loud
the whole time. I didn't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Or was that the crucifixion, But it was for one
of the other guys.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
It was that those other criminals.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
It wasn't for the one that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
It was the upside down guys. It was not. It
was nothing to write home about. That never happens. Everybody's Cleopatra.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
And Alice was like, great, she believes him.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
She better she has four of his kids.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
He then told her that God had told him that
they needed to move to Kirtland, Ohio.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
It must be nice.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
If God's like, hey, then it must be a nice place.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
God's like, there's this amazing four bedroom house, really good
square footage. There's a great room.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
So that's where the first Church of the Mormon faith
was and it's a mecca for Mormons. So they're like,
move there and like get more religious.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
If you can. I try it. Gave it a whirl.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
So in April nineteen eighty four, the Lungern family and
moves from Missouri to Kirtland, and Jeffrey volunteers is a
tour guide for the historic Kirkland Temple. And he also
worked as a Bible study teacher. But the church like, what,
like the main dude, what do they call him?

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Priests?

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
I don't know, not in the LDS, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Okay, well this main dude not God.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
He's the one below God. Yeah, he's walking he's the elder.
The elder I knew at first.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
One of the cheech eld.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
One of the church elders, is like walking by his
Bible study thing. He and he hears Jeffrey b like
forget everything that they just said at the church today.
Listen to me everything, and it is like spouting all
this negative shit about like hell and stuff, which I
guess they're not stoked on. Well yeah, you know, to children,
no to like older people, Okay, And so the elders

(01:09:07):
are like, bro, you can't do that. And so they
also suspected him stealing twenty five to forty thousand dollars
from temple, the Temple Store, and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
So the Temple Bowling League.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
So they kick his ass out of the church.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
You said, the Temple store.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
Yeah, they had like a souvenir store, a souvenir like this,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Got it?

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
Souvenirs like the Book of Mormon or Big Superman. What
about a foam finger.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
It's just like hey, God.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Pointing up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Yeah, yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
So this by this time a'rend nineteen eighty seven, though
he had already won over a small flock of his
study group, about a dozen people flock, and he by
claiming that he was a prophet following God's org and
promising that they would see the face of God if
they followed his teachings. So they believed him, so they
left the church with him, and he began to prophesize

(01:10:10):
that Kirtland would be the sight of the Second Coming
of Christ.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Wow, Kurtland, Ohio, why not do you have a picture?
Oh I hear the picture of the Second Coming, of
the picture of God's face.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
See all ready for this. So this is the Lungdren family.
That's Alice, and that's an asshole over here. He looks
like a real fun guy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
I just they look happy, and that's what's important, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
So the Lundren family and their four children and around
eight of their followers all move into a house together.
What a bummer, fifteen acre rental property in Kirtland. It's
got a cent year old house that they all live in,
and also a barn. And they and the followers all
call Jeffrey and Alice's mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Ye, no the red flag.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
No no, no, yeah, unless unless you're on Mama's family. Don't.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Every night they have intense scripture classes taught by Jeffrey.
Of course he can do it for hours and hours
on end, and they just fucking sit there and listen
and preach his craziness.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
His negative bullshit.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
He tells his followers that everything they knew was wrong.
They had to erase their memories and start over with
what he told them, and they weren't allowed to pray
without him, and dude, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
They can't tell I'm praying right now. You don't know,
can't tell me, got it? Sorry? I do that, amen.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
They turn over their paychecks. Click, they turn over their
paychecks to him, and all their possessions to him. Fucking
classic cult shit right here. He would ease drop on
the cult members and that made them believe that he
could read their minds.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Oh no, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
He's like got the glass up to the wall.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
Cult members were forbidden to talk amongst themselves. I couldn't
talk to each other.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
What's the upside of this cult? Just not having to
think that much?

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
We get a high fived one day if they talked around,
if they talked amongst each other, it was it was
a sin. And he called it murmuring, just like, oh
my god. And he made them all fast and he
would like fucking eat all this food around them and
shit and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Like threatened them. It was.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
He was a psychotic person, and he was really charismatic
and I think really good at speaking.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
I think he was definitely, I hope so psychopath. So.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
One of the families that had become devoted followers of
Jeffrey Lugren was the Averies. In nineteen eighty seven, Dennis Avery,
he was an assistant in a bank in Missouri, moved
to Kirtland with his wife, Cheryl, and their three daughters. Trina,
who was fifteen, Rebecca was thirteen and Karen was seven.
They were a family of bookworms. They were really passive people,

(01:13:09):
and Jeffrey would complain about the Averys because Dennis let
Cheryl quote wear the pants in the family, which he
thought was fucking sacrilegious, Like, it's a sin that you're
letting your wife tell you to pick up your fucking
socks off the floor.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Yeah, because she's talking and that's not allowed.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
No, she's not being subservient, So wow, it's a sin.
Dennis gave him ten thousand dollars from the sale of
their Missouri home, but he kept some of the money
for himself and his family, and he also wouldn't live
in the house with them, and so Jeffrey was pissed
off about that too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Here's a picture of the Avery's. Oh they're nice, we
can oh, okay, okay, whoa so so Lungren began preaching
about the end of days and planned a raid on
the temple that fucking fired his ass.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
You mean the main Mormon temple?

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Uh huh okay.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
He was like, we're going to raid it, and that
this time they had started practicing military maneuvers and stockpiling
weapons and dressing in military garb.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
A bad sign at church. Yeah, not what it's about.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
And all the neighbors were like, uh, this isn't good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Yeah, I'm like told on him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
And also one of the cult members at this point,
Kevin Curry, who in nineteen eighty eight was like, I'm
out of here. This is not what I fucking signed
up for. He goes to the FBI and tells them
about his plan to use lethal force to seize the
Kirtland Temple. It was planned for May third, nineteen eighty eight,
which was Lungren's thirty eighth birthday, which is like, happy
fucking birthday to me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Yeah, he's one of those like it's my birthday all month. Yeah,
And at the end we're gonna go out for Margarita's
and then where we're going to raid the temple?

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Right, So, the FBI passes the infel along to Kirtland
Police Chief Dennis Yar, and the day before the attack,
they're like, Jeffrey, can you come talk to us for
a minute at the police station, and he's like, no, no, no,
I'm not going to do that, I swear. But the
when he gets back home to his cult, he doesn't
tell them about that. He was like, I had a

(01:15:15):
conversation with God who told me we're not going to
raid the church.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Okay, you know in there, because then he was.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
But then he was like nervous that they weren't going
to believe in him anymore because he didn't follow through
with it. But he's like, but don't worry, We're still
going to fucking do something violent.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
And they're like, great, that's all we want as followers
of this religion.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Yeah, So instead of focusing on the church, he turns
his attention to his own flock, which he says has
evil in it and they need to quote cleanse sin
from the group. He says that that sin is the Avery's.
It gets worse. Yeah, always, uh, you know, every time

(01:15:56):
I look over here to tell you guys something and
then look back, I can't see the because my retinas
are burned. So takes a minute. He tells his followers
that the end of days are approaching, something that I
love to fucking say all the time, but I don't
kill people. And he promised other followers would get salvation
if they sacrifice the Avery family.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
It's insanity, yes, so they had been at this point.
Is his whole flock, which are all normal people.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
They're like husbands and wives and people who have normal
jobs and were just really into their faith had been
so whipped up into a religious frenzy that they were
ready to do whatever he told them to do because
of the return of Jesus Christ. So on April seventeenth,
nineteen eighty nine, the Averys are called to the Langern residence,
and when they get there in the evening, one of

(01:16:46):
the members of the cult, Wie Alaveraz, said she thought
it must be God's will that this was going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
She walked. So basically they go, what I know this one?
You do?

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Now? The world was done with it? Yes, I just
remembered you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
I'd never heard of it before.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
But are they going to walk them to the barn?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Fuck?

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Okay, did you see an episode of something about it?
Was an American Justice about it? Yeah, listen, you guys,
hear what's his name, Bill Curtis, Will Curtis's voice in
your head?

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
But they were not going to go to the leather jacket.
Leather jacket for no reason.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
So they bring the family to the house and Dennis
Avery Is asked to go into the barn for whatever reason,
he's walked there. He's rendered unconscious of the stun gun.
He's gagged and this is the father and dragged to
a pre dug pit where he shot. Jeffrey shoots him
in the back of the head twice and he dies. Next, Cheryl,

(01:17:50):
the wife, is lured when she told that was that
her husband needed help. She's bound and lowered in the
pit and she's shot three times and dies. And after that,
the three daughters, Trina fifteen, Becky thirteen, and Karen seven
are also shot and killed and placed next to their
parents in the pits. And all these fucking members are there,

(01:18:11):
and they knew what was going to happen, and they
all go along with it. In fact, some of one
of the members stood outside the barn while this happened
and ran a chainsaw so the neighbors wouldn't hear the
gun mail off.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Well, they're indeed like all of their humanity was stripped away.
That's the whole thing of cults, where you'd lose yourself entirely,
and it all becomes about this person you're following, and
you just don't you're just doing what they say. That's
the craziest. That's why they're so fascinating is how does
that happen to a person that manages a bank or

(01:18:43):
does anything that you think, oh, you would know not
to do this, But it's that it's how culture.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Well, there was one woman who was Jeffrey's cousin who
like joined the culture, was like a single mom, and
later in interviews she's just like, I wanted someone to
make all the decisions for me. I was scared and
didn't you know, didn't want to live my own life,
and so it was nice to have someone make decisions
for me. So at what point are you then You're like, no,
I mean you'd hope it would be this point, but
they do.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
But also it is that thing too, the idea of
the promise of say, like whatever the promise ends up being,
like Jesus is returning, that becomes so real, and that
idea is your salvation. So you're going to do anything
it takes to make sure that that happens.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
It's yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Going to say something real sacrilegious, but I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Say it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
I mean, what if what if? What if it's not
that great? When you go to heaven and you did
all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
First, I'm like, I guess it's cool. Yeah, what if
it's just like a shitty diner and you're like, oh,
it's really looking forward to this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
For this, for this, Sorry Jesus, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
I'm Jewish. I don't have to apologize.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Uh boop. I just have to call my aunt who's
a nun and tell her everything that we did tonight.
Then I'll be fine.

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Cool d during the fl Okay, Then, the neighbors did
say they had only heard chainsaws running that night, God.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
Which is a horrible, horrible thing to hear at night. Yeah,
you're not cutting wood at night.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Not safe.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
The bodies of the Avery family are covered in lime
and buried in the pit, then covered with they just
like scatter trash all over it, and then they go
back to the farmhouse and hold a prayer meeting.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
The very fucking next morning.

Speaker 3 (01:20:39):
The FBI and cops show up to the house to
kind of do a welfare check, and because of the
complaints from the neighbors who are sick of nighttime chain saws. Yeah,
so imagine this fucking flock is like, oh shit, like
the next morning, Yeah, but they're just there. They don't
even know what's going on yet. So the FBI interviews everyone,
make sure they all want to be there, you know,

(01:21:01):
by choice.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
And one of.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
The police members is like, well, what about there's a
family called the Avery's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Do you need to interview them?

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
And they said no because they weren't deemed important because
they weren't as active in the cult. So they never
sought to find them, sought to find them, maybe sought
them out, sought them out, get sought them out. Okay, Steven, Okay.
So later that day they're like, that was a close call.
Let's get the fuck out of here. So they they

(01:21:27):
get the fuck out of there. Oh, and they go
to a remote campsite in West Virginia.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Where they lived in the guys, where they live in
the fucking wilderness.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Wilderness for boo exactly, there is a strong booing section
that I'm into right here.

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
They go live in the wilderness for seven months. What
fucking bummer man did they? And the whole time they
were like, dude, you told us that he was going
to come to Kirtland, and so why are we here?

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Quick change of plants. Yeah, it is still my birthday.
I want to camp.

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
And after all these months the fucking Lungren family are
like just kidding, it's going It's gonna happen in southern California,
and they fucking take off and leave everyone behind a family.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Really.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
Yeah, So everyone is suddenly like, oh shit, fuck, we
might have made a huge mistake. So by December thirty
feet in nineteen eighty nine, this cult member, Larry Johnson,
whose wife had left him to take up with the
Lungrens too in so sunny southern California, was like, oh shit,

(01:22:40):
this was a bad idea, and he contacts atf agents
in Kansas City.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
He spills the beans.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
Tells them fucking everything, including details of his own involvement
in the murders, and gives the agents a hand drag
map of the barrier of the barn where the pit
is where they can find the body. Yes, so on
January third, I guess they wait till after New Year's.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
They were just trying to arrange schedules and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
So you know, they couldn't get hold of the judge
from design a fucking search warrant. Yeah, because the judge
is just plastered out of his Why this is not
I mean, you never know, I'm making shuit up that
could be true. So they searched the burial pit based
on the drawings, and after clearing away large amounts of
garbage and debris they get they begin digging in with

(01:23:25):
by the time it's dark out, they find the first
set of human remains. They find Dennis. Then they find
the rest of the bodies and they're all horrified. This
is like a nice, you know, suburban town with a
lot of religious people in it. And so a restaurants
are issued for Lungren and twelve of his followers, including Alice,

(01:23:46):
his wife, and their nineteen year old son, Damon.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
You named your kid Damon.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
It's close to Damien, which is Satanic or demon. Richard
brand is one of the cult members.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Richard Brandson, Virgin Airlines.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
Sharon Blon, Chili Van Johnson, Daniel Craft, sh Sharon Bluntsklee Bunchley,
Ronald buff Susan Left, Devorah Olivera's Dennis Patrick, Tanya Patrick,
and Gregory Winship. Uh so, here's I think I have
a photo of all of them. I mean at once,

(01:24:19):
s don't worry.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Here we go. So these are the people that fled
to La No, these are all of them.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Oh, it's everybody memberies, look.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
At their dead us.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
This was was this a lens Crafter's cult? M rough stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Yeah, but but so.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
The charges against the twelve accomplices ranged from conspiracy to
commit aggravated murdered complicity to aggravated murder and kidnapping, and
by inside of one week, all the suspects are in
police custody. Some of the members had charges dropped. Not
many due to non involvement, are only given obstruction of
justice charges, but the rest of them get some fucking

(01:25:09):
hard ass time. Richard Brand is one of them. Richard
Brand is twenty six years old when he was arrested
in connection with the murders of the Averys.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
He's he's just like explain it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
He's a fucking college graduate with a degree in civil engineering,
and he participated to avoid a life sentence. He agrees
to plead guilty to five counts of complicity to aggravated
murder in exchange for testimony against Jeffrey Lungern and other
cult members. He was in the barn on in the
night when the Averys were murdered, and he so Jeffrey

(01:25:43):
Langren is the triggerman. But bah bah bah bah, he
says they were all willing accomplices, though his job was
to help bind and gag the victims before they were shot.
It's insane, so Ronald Luff, he's a key in planning
and facilitating the murders. With Jeffrey sentenced to one hundred
and seventy years in life to life, Alice Lugren, who

(01:26:05):
was trying to say that you know, she wasn't really
part of it, she was just a subservient wife, and
that he was abusive.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Ever, the jury was like.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Hell fucking no, She's sentenced to one hundred and fifty
years to life in prison. Two months later, their son
Damon is sentenced to four consecutive life terms without parole
for one hundred and twenty years.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
Shit.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
And then so Jeffrey Lungren's trial starts in nineteen ninety
and it only takes two hours for the jury to
find him guilty of five counts each of aggravated murder
and kidnapping. But then on his ed is sentencing, he's
allowed to give like a talk whatever what five fucking
hours he preaches his insane fucking shit for five hours.

(01:26:49):
He like stands at this pulpit like he's giving a
fucking sermon and goes on and on, and everyone in
the court room is like, we could see how fucking
insane he was. Like, he just seems so crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
And attack one more life sentence.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
All right, here's a photo of him after when he
was arrested. You know, he's like a low rent fabio.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Oh ouch ouch, Yeah, I don't know if you wore
that jacket, I'd listen to what he had to say. Shit,
I know, white tracksuit, who are you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
Blah blah blah. Hold on two hours. Then he he
gets sentenced to die in the electric chair.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Oh shit. Plea deals are reached with because of that sermon.
All right, sorry, sorry, cancel that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
Cancel that order.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Plea deals are reached with six defendants who agreed to
provide testimony exchange for reduced sentences. All those defendants have
been parolled, six of them. Five of those people spent
about twenty years behind bars before going free. Five are
now in prison after having served their wait five or
now out of prison. Four are still serving time, including

(01:28:06):
Alice Langren, and she's not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Eligible for parole until.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
And then there's a period at the end of that time,
Like what Georgia I think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
Like twenty ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Okay, okay, that's a great number.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Okay, all right, So then October twenty fourth, two thousand
and six, with this he had last of the appeals
are exhausted. Jeffrey Langren is executed by lethal injection at
the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility, sixteen years after he murdered
the Avery family.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Yeah, a smattering of polite applause for lethal injection.

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
He died with no family or friends among the witnesses,
and no one claimed his body, and he was buried
in a prison grade shit.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Shit.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
However, a Missouri church community raised thousands of dollars no no, no, no, no, no,
come on, nope, to pay for the burial of the
Avery family in Missouri.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
See, of course they did. That's what real church does.
That's what real church does.

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
And they launched a children's charity and memory of Trina,
Rebecca and Karen Avery.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Yay.

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
And that is the fucking Curtling cult. Fully, you guys, God.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
This was a heavy episode.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
It's heavy.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
I would have had a breakdown if Steven's beautiful face
wasn't here.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
It takes you Stephen's cookie face for getting us through though.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
It's just like having him in the loft.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
It's just like brushing your hair with his mustache. Stuff
that gets you through the hard times? Do we have
We always have time for a hometown.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
Okay, you have to shouldn't even if your hand is
up right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
Now, you're not even gorgeous lights. Look at this, oh beautiful. Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
You have to listen to rules because they're crucial. Crucial rules,
crucial rules. Here we go balcony. It's not happening. I'm
so sorry, I'm so sorry. This is a union theater.
We have to leave it at a certain time. We
can't wait for you to haul your ass down here. Okay,
here's the rules. We want it to be a local story.

(01:30:37):
Don't come up here and tell some fucking Florida story.
We don't Wyo, Ohio, Cleveland anywhere nearby. Also, as you know,
you can't be so drunk that you can't tell your
own story. Buzz is fine, but you have to keep
it moving. This is the crucial rule that we realize
in the last couple shows. Please remember as the storyteller

(01:30:58):
and as the hometown teller. Tonight, everyone else in the
audience hates your guts so I wouldn't shout out a
friend when you got up here. I wouldn't be kissing
fingers and pointing to people. I would tell your story quickly, factually,
make sure you know the names, you know, make sure
that you've got it in hand.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
But not but you can't. All right, here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Yeah, so was there any other was what rules?

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
Obviously you can't read off the piece of paper. People
know how to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
At this point, some one just said my name.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Of course they're saying your name. Don't be a sap Hi.
Now she's crying. There's also the other rules. There's no crying,
or there's only crying. Look those things, everybody. That's the
man who've got us here tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
Hi?

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
What's your name?

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
My name Carly?

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
Remember here? I have to let him look at you, Harley,
Hi Carly with a se yes the sea.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
Where are you from? You have fuzz? Where are you from?

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
I am from Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Get up there, Get up on them. I'm from Cleveland. Yes,
that's what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
So all your friends win the matching shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
Girl made some shirt that's adorable?

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (01:32:28):
Says SSDGM with a murdery scene beautiful the forest.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
They were pointing at you furiously. Why is it because
you have a great hometown.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
It's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
It's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
Okay, I like it, humble, Okay, kick all of you.

Speaker 4 (01:32:44):
I'm very concerned about being respectful towards people involved, so
I'm not gonna directly name names. Okay, okay, okay, okay.
So in about twenty eleven, I guess I was working
at as a substitute English teacher at my old high school,

(01:33:09):
which is strange in itself, where I met some pretty
awesome new English teachers, and one was this young woman.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Sorry, can we just take a moment to clap for
English teachers? Yes, thank you, God bless him. They're all
also uber drivers. Okay, that's right. I've been paying half
of my sister's mortgage for years, so it is teacher.

Speaker 4 (01:33:41):
So anyways, I met this young woman who was fresh
out of college, you know, still living at home, really.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
Passionate about her job.

Speaker 4 (01:33:50):
And anyways, I met her, and I'm sitting in the
office and the head of the department walks in and
she's like, oh, young Betta teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:34:01):
I'm not naming your name.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Let's call her. What are the color let's call her Annie.

Speaker 4 (01:34:05):
Great, Okay, She's like, Annie, have you heard anything about
your mom?

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
Like where you know I heard? She was calm, like
do you have heard it from her? Where is she?
Do you know anything? And I was like ooh. Anyways,
and Annie was all like, oh, yeah, you know, she.

Speaker 4 (01:34:23):
Left a few weeks ago, and you know, we're not
that concerned.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
My dad said, she just like, you know, met.

Speaker 4 (01:34:29):
Up with this group and you know, we'll see her eventually.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
And basically it was kind of like, we're okay.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
Anyways, a few weeks later, I get an email from
the school saying Annie's mom did not join a cult.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
She was murdered by her husband. Oh Annie's dad.

Speaker 4 (01:34:55):
Anyways, as the story goes, U, why are you laughing?
It's nervousness at a nervousness. So anyways, Annie's Annie apparently
got suspicious of what was going on in our house.

(01:35:15):
Apparently there was a foul stench coming from her garage and.

Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
Kept asking her dad what is that?

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
What is that?

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
Apparently they kept chickens in their backyard and he was
claiming that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
One of the chickens had died and he just hadn't
cleaned up the body or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:35:34):
So clearly Annie was smarter than that and eventually was
very disturbed by it and called the police, and the
police showed up. Turns out her mom's body was in
the garage.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
Apparently she was had a.

Speaker 4 (01:35:55):
Stuffed in a sleeping bag with a plastic bag over
head was like panties stuck in her mouth, and a
tarp over her body that was duct taped, bag of
lime bleach, everything all right there. Apparently when the police
showed up, the dad was trying to like block Oh,

(01:36:17):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:36:18):
Side note, the dad was an ex cop.

Speaker 4 (01:36:20):
Uh oh, here we go, living in the town that
he worked for, So when the police showed up, I
am assuming he was not happy to see his old
colleagues trying to break into their garage and he had
to be tased in order to get in where they
found this terrible scene.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
Oh my god. Anyways, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
Did you ever see Annie again?

Speaker 4 (01:36:48):
She did not come back to her work because I
know and then but now she is back at the
school and apparently living an awesome life. And you know,
I'm not friends with her anymore. I was more of
an acquaintance type thing. But it was one of those
things that was like, oh my god, I know this
person that this happened to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
And Soviet insane Carly, you guys look good.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
She gets.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
Yeah, that's right. Great job, I mean, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
Gives the Vince the Mike or Karen, Oh, you can
give it to him.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
Fun fun. Now she has a job. Great job, Carle,
g job Carly. Oh awesome, Wow that went really fast,
you guys. I'm so sweaty. Thank you so much for
everything you guys were. It's so crazy that we say

(01:37:54):
this every show, but we're so thrilled that we get
to do this. We have the best fucking time. We
love coming out and actually meeting the people that listen
to our insane podcast and the fact that you guys
turn up the way you do, the way you sell
out theaters this size for us. Thank you so much.
It's so amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
We're so thrilled and we're so happy and feel so
lucky we get to be a part of this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
So thank you guys for supporting us. Yeah, and we
love you.

Speaker 1 (01:38:23):
We love you and stay sexy and jump bye Cleveland.
Thank you.