33 - What About Mimi?

This week, Karen and Georgia talk the increasingly surreal Jane Mixer case along with the Co-ed Killer and then recount the incredible survival of Jennifer Morey. Come have tea with us, Rosemary & Thyme style on My Favorite Murder.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's how we started it this week.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hi everybody, Hi, are you there? Hello?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, that's Karen. Who's this that's Karen. Oh, and that's Georgia.
Thank you answer our voices if you can't tell them apart.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Oh, yeah, you do yours?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Okay, Hi, this is Georgia. I gasp into the microphone
a lot.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hi. This is Karen, I sing and it lie and
this is my Favorite Murder, which is a podcast where
we talk about murders that happen that interest us and
intrigue us and hopefully make your time at work in
the swimming pool or on a darkened road while you

(01:00):
take a walk, go buy a little bit faster.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Goodbye byey.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
That was it.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's such an effort to do like an official beginning
of this fucking pod.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Let's get into it. Let's fucking get into it.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Let's pass it all by.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
He's keeping well, so Jacob, okay, so this is the
thing we wanted to talk about that I said, don't
fucking talk to me about and tell our podcast right,
which very stern. I'm very stern. So Jacob Weterling fat
that has bought this? What is he thirteen year old
kid who went.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
He was kidnapped. He was kidnapped. It was him, his
brother and a friend. They were riding their bikes to
the store and a guy held them a gunpoint and
told the other two to run away and took.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Jacob nineteen eighty nine. Which we have said many times
that the eighties are going to be under arrest for
being fucking shitty.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
It was not a good time for us as children.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, speaking of I just watched a documentary that is
now on Netflix over the weekend called Who Took Johnny.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Stared at that all weekend, going watch it, Karen, this
is supposed to be your thing, and I couldn't bring
myself to watch because I've heard them talk about it
on the last podcast I left, and it is so
dark and it's so creepy, and it is so not
your average kidnapping. I just didn't want to have to
take it in.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I agree, there's a lot of information. The thing I
took away from it, hold on, Johnny, I'm fucking reading.
The thing I took away from it is that his mother,
and like this is the only positive thing, is the
biggest badass in the fucking world. So the whole thing

(02:38):
like kind of centers follows her around and what she
had to go through, like when her son got kidnapped,
and when the police seventy two hour waiting period for
this little boy who in the dark on his paper
route in the morning, his papers were left behind, his
adorable doc sund which was left behind, which why would

(03:01):
you do that? And they said they thought he ran away.
So she had to go to great lengths for years
and years and became an advocate just like John Walsh's
without a TV show for children. And it's amazing what
she's done.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
I can't I can't take it in.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
You gotta watch it.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
And I just am so tired. I'm so tired.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
No, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, but the Franklin cover up it comes into play.
It's so hard to believe. I have such a hard
time with so many of these. Like there's two things.
One of them is that a guy gets arrested and
says that he was one of the people who took
Johnny Gosh and he became a sex slave. And the
other thing is that the mom says that she saw

(03:46):
him Johnny as an adult came to her door. And
those two things, like if you believe them both, it's
a fucking insane story. If you don't, then it's a
fucking insane story because people are crazy.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, everything about it is you know, it's if it
was just everything peeled away of just the facts that
you actually know. It's an intense tragedy of just a
child disappearing. It's the it's the worst case scenario because
then you're a grieving parent who never gets relief and
what that might do to you. But then there's also

(04:23):
the thing of it's just like I think the reason
people like stranger things or whatever, it's that thing of, well,
then you must be crazy if you are in grief
to this degree. Yeah, you And of course with the mothers,
with women, it's always you're crazy. And so a woman
trying to get answers and get her child help and
get some action when she's being deemed crazy, which is

(04:45):
the ultimate stamp that people can negate you and your
voice with.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, she was saying, that's happening like men men are stern,
but women are shrill. You know.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's the patriarchy, it's the butts of the standard bullshit.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
And yet she was able to change laws and be
an advocate for children who have gone missing and turn
her grief into something useful and worthwhile. Not that grief
is not those things.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
But no, that's great, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
She's amazing. Uh yeah, I definitely. I know it's a
hard it's a hard case, but it's a really good
fine watchumentary. Fine, fine, fine, I quit your four jobs
that you have and stay home and watch Who Took Johnny?

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Here's what I did to and but sorry. We started
that by mentioning that Jacob wetterlings remains were finally found,
so his parents have rest, and there was a lot
of people who sent us that. It makes me really
happy that people send us those articles and they're so
you know, enthusiastically like, oh, it's such a nice idea
to think that after all these years, those at least,

(05:56):
at the very least those parents have a little bit
of rest. Yeah, and little bit like it just at
least they know where he is.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well. I was so I read that about him being found,
and they hadn't released a lot of details about it.
Now that there's more stuff coming out, like who, like
the guy confessed to it and that's how they found
the body. But so the whole time I was watching
Who Took Johnny? I was just and all these twists
and turns that maybe was this, and it could have
been this, and he might be still alive in an
adult and all these things, and I couldn't help. But

(06:25):
just like picture this sad his bones buried somewhere remote
and he has in the exact same way he looked
when he got taken, and these crazy stories of what
happened that are just not true, and in the meantime,
these lonely bones somewhere. It just made me sad.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
I know, it's it's so tragic. It's heavy, heavy shit.
That's why I'm going to clumsily segue now into my
next piece of housekeeping, because let's just let's not live
there forever so they get too dark, not at all. No,
this is what this is what we like, but we
can't just like you know, we have to continue it. Yeah.

(07:08):
I have an apology to make for anyone who heard
me talk shit about the British procedural Rosemary and Time,
because what I did this weekend was watch probably twenty
episodes of Rosemary and Time, which is a hilarious. It's
not supposed to be hilarious. But I found it so enjoyable,

(07:29):
so relaxing. It's two like middle aged British women who
are gardeners and they go they keep getting hired. It's
very murder she Roadie makes ever. There's two of them
and they get hired to fix people's beautiful British gardens.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
It kind of like two fat ladies.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, but they're very attractive women, okay, And I found
the two fat ladies attractive in their own way.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
They don't have to they had great personalities. Okay.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Anyhow, these two are so enjoyable to watch the murders,
which is little Chris. There's always two murders. Everywhere they go.
People are dropping like flies. No one cares. They're never suspected.
But half of more than half of the show, it
takes place in the most gorgeous gardens you've ever seen,

(08:13):
so there's a real like you can see them aiming
at like probably like a sixty year old lady who's
gonna sit in her chair at night knit eat some
candy and watch this show.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
It sounds fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
I was that lady this weekend, and I fucking loved it.
I was so relaxed. You have to see it. It's
but one time someone asked me about British procedurals and
someone recommended Rosemary in Time, And oh was I flippant
about how that was Grandma Grandma crime show? And I
don't care. Well, I apologize whoever I said that to you.

(08:44):
I am one thousand percent wrong. I love Rosemary Time
with the best of them and Pam Ferris and I
wrote their names down because Felicity Kendall and Pam Ferris
are the two stars. They're so goddamn good. And Pam
Ferris went on to star in a show called Call
the Midwife, which I also love a lot.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Which one was she she.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Is the nun that wears the habit all the time.
She's like all business nuns. Yeah, it's like she looks
like every one in my family.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
I love that show, Call them Midwife.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
I love Call the Midwife. And she's she's like, holds
it down on there. So she's been on British TV
for like forty years.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
It sounds like a combination of murder, she wrote, and
the Great British Bakeoff.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yes, where you're just kind of being soothed by British voices,
a little violence gorgeous flowers.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I mean, you can't have one without the other, and
you shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
And also they what I love is in a British procedural,
you will watch them casually drinking tea, and I just
love the fact that people like cut out time in
the day now drink tea and eat cookies.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Think there's bourbon in there. I'm not just saying that
because I just had Bourman and I mean it's probably everywhere,
I mean deep.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Down, I mean as you on, uh well, just like vodka,
Hunderd Grain vodka.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Other housekeeping housekeeping.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think the Rosemary and Time apology was my number
one housekeeping pretty much this week.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
That was correction corner.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, that was a huge correction because also once again
I've gotten it wrong with England.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh hey, we're in Entertainment Weekly. Oh hey, Gues's right.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
We just found this out tonight. Someone very nice HEROI
I'll look them up. They were like a stage mom
that I've never had that gave a ship where they
it's D Train. Of course, D Train's there from D
Train at D Train rights, Hey did you see the
show in Entertainment Weekly? Congrats And the answer was no,

(10:48):
we absolutely Havenot. We didn't know it was going to
be in there. We're in there with Atlas Obscuro, which
is a rad website. We're in there with a band
called Sunlit Youth.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm sure young people love them.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
I'm sure that they're cool. It's like a bunch of
dudes in stretched out white T shirts with really sparse
facial hair.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Can I read you my textic? Change about it with
my dad?

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Please?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
So I send him the photo that d Train sent us,
and I said, my podcast is an entertainment weekly, because
you know, the only thing that seems legitimate is if
are on television or in a magazine. That's right, Like,
it doesn't matter if you're on the website.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
And he said, OMG, wonderful, very proud of you. Go girl, Marty.
Then he said comedian. I like the sound of that,
and I said me too, And he said, is this
on Facebook? I'd like to share it? Daddy.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
That's your job, Dad, Thanks, Dad, go ahead and throw
that up on Facebook with a baby picture.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Let's see it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Well that's funny because I texted my sister Adrian and Audrey,
who are my hometown posse and all fans of the show,
not Laura, and listen to it.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Your sister doesn't go.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
She's like, I don't have time a fuck, And I
literally have told her when she can listen to I'm like,
when you drive after you drop off your daughter.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
My sister in law's the only one who listens to it.
My family like, my not related person is the only
one who can hear my voice. And I love it, hate.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Me well Audrey and Audrey and Adrian both totally listened
to it. So I went onto our NonStop constant group
text and just went, hey, you guys, look, we're in
entertainment weekly. No one answered for a while, and then
Adrian responded, what magazine is that. I'm like, I don't
make me fuck say it twice wow. And then no

(12:36):
one answered for a while, and then I had written
will someone please go buy one and give it to
my dad? And so then nobody answers for a while,
and then Adrian comes back and goes, Laura, are you
on that? You're like hello, yeah, and I was like
this is classic, and then I was like, sorry for bragging,
and then my sister called me, of course, I'm so

(12:57):
proud of you.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah. I sent it to my mom, I haven't heard
a word from my mother. Well hates me? No kidding.
Can I just shout out Yolanda, my sister in law,
and how sweet she is? Is she listening? Yeah? Oh?

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Was she at the wedding? Of course I may have
met her.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, she's a doll.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Thanks, Yolanda. You're the most important kind of family, which
is the family that listens to it.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Doesn't hate you for cracking an egg over your their
head and when you were five, that's right.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
There's no grudges, no old grudges with those in laws.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
All I've been in her mind is a great aunt.
Good time party gal, Yeah, good time party. Probably a
good gift giver. I would say I'm terrible at good giving. Really,
she's a great gift I'm a piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
What gift cards? It's all Starbucks gift cards everywhere.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
I just forget. Yeah. More than that, I try.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
To make it seem like as if I'm a Seventh
day Adventist. I don't give gift.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I don't either.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Karen doesn't do that.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Can we agree, and we did this on our last birthdays,
that we don't give each other gifts?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Let's not do that each other never no, I might.
I might pick you up something and they see it totally.
It's like that's okay, Well year around. Yeah, but if
it has to be on your birthday, I'm going to
let you down.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I don't want you to be stressed out and then
feel guilty.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
No way.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I don't even we podcasted on your birthday and I
didn't even know it is your birthday.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Because I don't want to put that shit on people.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
But then I feel older.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I didn't know, I know, But what do you get.
I'm not on Facebook. I keep to myself. I'm a
fiercely private person.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Hey, it's my birthday today. You can't say that.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Didn't it feel weird? Just now?

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:33):
All right, let's talk about murder. Are you ready?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
That was called That was called family forum. That last
part that was called.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Working out friendship details, friendship rules. This is an important
thing because I swear to God if I'm friends with
the person and they give me some fucking three stacks
of beautifully wrapped gifts and I'm like, get off. Yeah,
we're not going to be I don't want this from you.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
You're going to be very disappointed when your birthday rolls
around getting this for me, and then I feel obligated,
and then I wrote this card that's like, hey, thank
you for.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Forcing this, get me out of me?

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Can I just take you for a fucking meal? All right? Yeah?
And actually you should and I will. I feel you
owe me.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Who went first last week?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think you did?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Good? Am I wrong? All right? We're taking a quickie break,
stay tuned, and then my favorite murders are happening. We're
back and we're back and hi, Hey, all right Georges

(15:43):
first this week? Okay, so are you ready to put
your phone down and listen to me?

Speaker 1 (15:48):
I was gonna send you that picture you get me
every good damn tongue?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
What if I was that big of a dick?

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Are you ready to listen?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
That's my one trigger is phone stuff. No, I'm kidding.
I don't give a shit about anything.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I'm pulling this microphone forward and leading.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Pay go to instagram dot com slash my favorite murder
to see a photo we just took.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yes, I have no makeup on, neither do.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I and my pants are just completely unbuttoned and unzipped.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's my Alicia Keys photo. All right, I'm taking this out.
Is it going to make a lot of noise or
I'm not going to make one move.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Steven, you better tell her if she.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
I just want to relax keeping an eye on her. Okay,
give me the finger, all right, all.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right, So my favorite murder this week is that of
Gary Earle Leaderman and the Michigan murders. So it's kind
of a it's kind of a mashup, Okay, all right.
In the late nineteen sixties, there was a serial killer
targeting young women in the college town of ann Arbor, Michigan. Oh.

(16:55):
He was called the co Ed Killer. He became known
as a co Ed Killer, and he murdered women in
and ran ann Arbor in a two year period.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
His mo was picking up young women between the ages
of thirteen and twenty one. Then he would rape, beat,
and murder them, typically by stabbing or strangulation. Sometimes their
bodies would be mutilated, which I don't get into. Don't worry,
ok if you're a squeamish after death before being discarded
in a desolate area. And he was also known to

(17:28):
visit their bodies before they were found. Ooh, yeah, he
was a fucking creep. Yeah, like a gross, fucked up,
sadistic creep he was.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
He was the og dead Bundy. It sounds like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, he was. Like I think, I don't know, I
should have looked this up. But they must have had
the term serial killer already because they called him that.
But it was like before this was like a known thing, right,
serial killing. So two young women attributed to the co
ed Killer had been found when the body of Jane Mixer,
a brilliant twenty three year old law student at the

(18:02):
University of Michigan, was found on March twenty first, nineteen
sixty nine. She was found in a cemetery just west
of ann Arbor, and it was assumed she was a
victim of the serial killer, the co ed Killer, but
some of the details of her murder were different than
the established em o of the co ed Killer. Jane

(18:23):
had disappeared after posting a note on a college ride
share bulletin board. Oh fuck right, I mean ah, honey, yeah.
She was seeking a ride across the state to her
hometown of Muskegan, where she intended Oh god, this is
the worst part. She intended to inform her family of

(18:44):
her engagement and emminent moved to New York like she
intended to inform everyone of the beautiful life she was
building for herself. Yeah, and was excited to start.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
She just had some great news. Yeah, it's like, oh,
her parents had been waiting to for this day.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, a guy she met at law school who was
a sweet angel. They were gonna move to New York
and pursue their careers.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Her sweet baby angle.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
I forgot about.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
That's my saying.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Hell, all right, thank you. Yeah, it makes me really sad.
But you know, like I wonder how like there's one
thing about hitchhiking that we are always like down hitchhike,
but the other thing of like putting it. Hey, if
anyone's heading to like fucking Miskegan, are you ride?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
I mean, in this day and age, I think it's
a little bit better, right, if you're gonna do that?
He in nineteen sixty nine. Don't get away from any
corkboard of any kind. Yeah, there's nothing good is happening now.
Everything's laced with acid.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Come on, Oh those were great quotes. Amazing.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, I'm really mad about it. I had no idea.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
No, it's ridiculous. So her body had been found in
a cemetery atop a grave. Wow, she had been and
we learned this from how to Say This from Jean Benet.
Garrotted correct, Yeah, garreted garretted all right with a nylon
stalking and it wasn't her own stocking. It was come
to kind of find out. But the way she died

(20:17):
was that she was shot twice in the head with
a twenty two caliber. She hadn't been beaten or sexually
assaulted like the other victims of the co ed killer had,
but she did have her dress pulled up showing her underwear,
but it had been carefully covered up with her yellow
raincoat afterwards, and her shoes and her copy of Catch
twenty two had been carefully placed nearby. So like this

(20:41):
person took care.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
It was like painting a picture.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, And like covering her body is such I mean,
we all know what it means now, but back then
it was like we didn't understand, like that really meant
caretaking this person.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right, which means a personal relationship. Usually I didn't Yes,
you're right, all right. I thought that's what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
No, but you're right. I just yeah, it means yeah,
you're so smart. I'm just gonna hand this whole podcast. Oready,
don't do it by please don't do it. So four
days after she's discovered the body, another body of the
co ed victim the coed killer is found Marilyn Skelton.

(21:23):
She disappeared while hitchhiking and ann Arbor, and her murder
more closely resembled the m of the Seriou killer. I
wrote fucked up fact. Each woman up until this point,
including Jane Mixer, had been menstruating at the time of
their death. Oh what in the actual fact? What? What
are the chances? Okay?

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Who works at the tampon store is my first as I'm.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Oh, you think it's a well? They were sanitary napkins,
like one up to their chins? Who sold the.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Sanitary napkin belts? Did you just say that one up
to their chins?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Seeing these things?

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Can I tell you a hilarious and very quick anecdote
always my friend Lisa Lanyon, who I went to Hydeshould.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
You saying her full name? Are you about to telling him? No?
She'd like it? Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
I spent the night at her house one night and
I went in to wash my face before we went
to bed. I couldn't find anything to hold my hair back,
and then I found this this uh, this white elastic
weird headband that had plastic clips on it. I was like, whatever,
double it up, threw my hair back, washed my face,
Oh my god. Came out of the bathroom. Her mother
started laughing so hard she could not breathe. And then

(22:35):
Lisa was like, Karen, you have a sanitary napkin belt
on your head.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
The joke is on man, because what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (22:42):
It was like some old thing I think she I
think the story was like her mom showed her like,
this is what you used to have to use and
then threw it in the bathroom drawer.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Oh my god, it was like.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Some old things she found of, Like, Lisa, can you
believe this used to have? Her mom had this great
Boston accent. Her mom was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
That is the most beautiful story I've ever heard in
my I own.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Her mom lost her mind when she saw me, and
she was like, you are the funniest girl. Where I
was like, I was just putting your band in my hair.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
How embarrassing. Loo good for you for washing your face
before bed. Thanks pro tip. As someone who has open
adult acne on her face right now, I always wash
her face before bed.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Seriously, It's something that's very hard to do. Once you're
in your like fourth episode of Rosemary time, you're like,
I'm not getting off this couch.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Who cares? That's why within arms reach at all times,
you have face wipes everywhere going girl.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Tip for the lazy, There'll be more of those coming out.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
We're very lazy. That was a great segue. That was
the best story. Okay, sorry, no, don't sorry. That needs
to be the girl who makes those amazing cartoons of us.
Oh yeah, comic strips of us. Yeah, can she?

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Can?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
That lovely girl please make one of this story.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, and give me a button nose, I demanded.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Everyone keeps commenting when I put photos like drawings on
Instagram of how that you have a button knows an
amazing cheek book in every drawing. Because you do.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
That's right, You just bend people to your will. Tell
me I'm pretty old hair bless you, chalus. Matt McCarthy
actually texted me button knows the other morning.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
He did ill shout out to Matt McCarthy. He was sarcastic. Yeah,
but he listens, He listens and loves. Maybe he sarcastically listens.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
No, I think he genuinely listens, but was being sarcastic
about my button.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Okay, so Matt McCarthy or that we watch wrestling pot.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
You watch wrestling podcasts? You like wrestling? All right?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
All right, back to the story, back to the murders,
back to murder. All right, So all had been menstruating, crazy, creepy,
fucking weird and like seems linked. Right, what are the chances?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
What are the chances? That's insane.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
So after three more murders of a thirteen year old
named Don Luis Bassim and twenty one year old Alice
Elizabeth Callum, with his final victim, which was due to
his capture, being an eighteen year old named Karen Sue Beneman,
John Norman Collins, a former fraternity dude, was caught.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
He's that young. Oh he's just former.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
No, he was. He was oh god, I don't know
his age, but he was a young man.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
He was in college college age too.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, and honestly, like between you and me, he was
fucking hot.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Oh that's they're the worst. That's the fuck it. It's
the Ted Bundy thing.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Well, that's why these girls would get in his car
and get on his motorcycle. He was a cute college dude.
Not anymore. He's fucking gross but looking an old photo
of right, he was.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
No, one's gonna drop the disk guy.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
And if a guy rolls up.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
And is like, hey, hey, can you help me with
my thing? And yeah, and they look creepy, people are
going to go No. I can use my very basic
senses to be like no, thanks.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, it's his hot thing of trusting an attractive face,
that's right.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Giving credit to being attractive is that means you're a
good person, trustworthy person.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
So what does it mean that people think I'm a
terrible person? Does that mean I'm not attractive? Nobody thinks
that you're.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Trying to give people rides Always you're rolling up and
trying to get.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
People to get into your car to not kill them.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, just to drive them around and talk about your
own stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah. It just seems like to event Sometimes when I
say I went to therapy today, all I mean is
I picked someone up and made them drive around with
me for an hour.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
You made them listen to you for an hour.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I'm gonna give him twenty bucks and drop them off.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Hey. So, he had been interviewed by police previously but
had been eliminated as a suspect, and part of the
reason he was caught was due to the identification by
a clerk of the wig shop which is last victim
named Karen had visited. Yes, this was an episode of

(27:04):
the crime to remember.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
The one with the car. But it's like the one
thing they knew about him, Like they had no idea
who it was for a long time, but the one
thing they knew it was like a blue car.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
It was a motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Oh, is that the one where the little girl gets kidnapped,
like from her driveway? Yeah, and they knew the car. Yeah,
and that.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Turns out it was a guy that lived right in
the neighborhood. Yeah, Okay, I'm combining. Sorry, I'm combined. No,
you are right though, So Karen the last Karen. I've
watched too many crime shows all the same in my
mind now.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
So Karen.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Karen, the last person who was murdered by him that day,
the day of her disappearance, had visited a whig shop,
and the clerk had remembered that Karen was visiting her
sort of purchase a hair piece, and there was a
young man waiting outside for her. On a blue motorcycle. Ooh,

(28:03):
and Karen told the clerk me and man, this bums
me out. Ready, She said to the clerk to observe
the man with whom she had accepted a ride and
cocky in a motorcycle, stating that she had made two
foolish errors in her life, purchasing a wig and accepting
a ride from a stranger. And then she stated, I've

(28:24):
got to be either the bravest or the dumbest girl
alive because I've just accepted a ride from this guy.
What are the fucking chances? She was then seen climbing
onto the motorcycle before riding away with him.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
You know that makes me think of It's like when
you get a bad feeling in your gut.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
And you make light of it, that's right, ah, And
you feel like, oh, if I just say this to
one person, it'll make it less a bad feeling. That's
crazy and exactly like this crazy thing just happened to me.
This person assaulted me. And you're like you should be
taking it seriously.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Well, no, I just mean it more in the way
of like before anything happened, before anything bad happens. But
you do have the thing of this isn't right, like what.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I was gonna I mean, from your own life, are
we fighting?

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Like what?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
No, I have it from your own life.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Most of the time, if I get a thing, I walk,
I don't do this. But I think probably back when
I drank, I would do it more right. But there
wasn't a lot of information coming in because of like
the gallons of whiskey that I had inside.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, there's definitely jokes I've made that are like like,
I have a hot date tonight and it's like, well,
it's just this with this person you don't fucking know. Yeah,
and it's and you're really actually you should be afraid.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, you're nervous, and you're telling people and you're trying
not to act quote unquote weird by telling them I'm nervous.
So you're just trying to make a joke about it.
But and I got married, so it's fun.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
No. But one time I did go on a date
with someone. I was going on to a date with
someone and I gave his phone number to my best friend.
This is before self like most before cell phones, to
be like hey, if I don't show up tomorrow, yeah,
this here's my and here's his info.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah that's not cool. Well, but also now because a
lot of people talk about this to us, which is,
I don't want to leave my house. I'm so anxious,
I'm so nervous. I think everyone's going to kill me
or whatever, which I think is people connecting with us
and people reaching out. They have heard us say it,
they're going to just say it too because they're admitting it.

(30:40):
But there's also that thing of just it's just a
safety precaution. Nobody cares, nobody thinks you're weird. You give
that number, and then you just have a little thing
in place because it's I think it's a smart thing
to do. It's just taking it's being proactive for yourself. Yeah,
because yeah, you're going to go on a date if
you've met a person, none of the other other alarm

(31:01):
bells are going on.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Right, It doesn't mean you shouldn't that's a person you
shouldn't go on a date with, because it's just being precautious.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
But yeah, but also do that thing that might feel weird,
but you can just do it for with a friend.
You don't have to do it to every person, you know. Yeah,
then you're being like neurotic. Yeah, but you put a
little safety sure measure out there.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, ready, except the ride.
So that's how he one of the one of the
main ways he got caught. That led to all the
other evidence against him, and in August nineteen seventy, John

(31:44):
Norman Collins was found guilty of first to murder of Karen,
his last victim, and he was sentenced to sort of
life imprisonment with hard labor and solitary confinement. He never
admitted his guilt in either the murder of Karen or
any of the other murderers linked to the Michigan murder
he is suspected of committing. So they only tried him

(32:05):
for that one crime, for the one murder that they
have a ton of evidence on and I witnessed evidence,
and then he was never going to get out, so
they didn't try him for the other murders, which has
to be hard when you're the family of those other victims.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
And how many other people were there.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Well here's okay, So here's the rest of the story.
Oh so they I mean, up until two thousand and two,
they figured he had like seven murders in the area.
But the case of Jane Mixer, who was considered solved
by the fact that John Norman Collins had did it

(32:40):
until two thousand and two, when Michigan State detectives noticed
that a lot of the details of her murder didn't
match up with Collins crimes. So they took a look
at the case again and they took three drops of
sweat that had been on Jane Mixer's pantyhose and a
single drop of blood that had been on her hand
to be tested for Danna all Right, the DNA didn't

(33:03):
match John Norman Collins, the co ed killer, but it
did match sixty two year old Gary Lieerman, who was
a former nurse from Southwestern Michigan who was a drug
salesman in Michigan at the time of the murders in
the area. It was thought that Liederman was the person

(33:24):
who had responded to Jane's note on the college ride
share bulletin asking for a lift home, because somehow a
dorm room book a phone book in the dorm rooms
read the words quote Mixer and Muskegon, which is where

(33:44):
she was going, and were linked to his handwriting. But
that was in two thousand and two that they found
those or that they linked those all right anyways, so
that they.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Had the evidence, but they just hadn't kind of put
anything or other, Yes, sitting somewhere.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yes. And then when his house was searched where he
had lived with his wife of twenty seven years, two
polaroid pictures of a sixteen year old foreign exchange student
who had lived with him and his wife were found.
The girl was drugged, unconscious, lying on his bed with
her clothing pulled back to show her junk and it

(34:26):
was similar to the pose that Jane had been left
in the cemetery. Whoa So the sweat stains linked to Leederman,
not the serial killer, but the drop of blood found
on her hand was linked through DNA to someone else.
It was a Detroit man who was at the time

(34:48):
of the DNA match, serving life in prison for murder.
The problem was ready for this that John Ruellis, who's
name match the blood drop, was four years old at
the time of the murder. Right, so the defense argued
that the state police lab had contaminated the samples. When

(35:11):
both men's DNA were tested at the lab within a
day of each other. Leaderman's had been tested separately. He
had a recent arrest for forging prescription meds from where
he worked as a nurse, and Ruella's was for murder.
But the cross contamination made the DNA match. To Liederman,

(35:34):
it should have made it in the in the court
case just null and void because if you find someone
else's DNA on this person, that is, there's no way
that person could have come into the crime, then the
rest of the DNA should be fucking thrown out of
thrown out? Is evidence? Right?

Speaker 1 (35:50):
What is that?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Are you saying that's the law or not? Just like logic,
that's logic to me. We can get to that. It
didn't get thrown out. The press execution argued that rue Wells,
who was four years old at the time and a
chronic nose bleeder, must have been at the crime scene
and somehow got a drop of blood on your face.

(36:13):
That you're making is correct? Is what I feel too.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, a four year old with the bloodys wandered over
to a dead body.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
They didn't argue that there was a mistake in the
crime lag crime lab, but the other DNA was legitimate.
And here's why they said that there was a four
year old boy in the cemetery and had somehow gotten
his blood on her.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
That in and of itself is the creepiest thing We've
talked about this whole episode. The idea of a four
year old with a bloody nose walking through a cemetery, yeah,
and stumbling upon a dead body.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
And it's absurd, But he was convicted. Leederman was convicted
of the murder of Jane Mixer based on the DNA
evidence and these other little basic things. M According to
the book Inside the Cell, The Dark Side of Forensic
DNA by Aaron Murphy, which we all need to read immediately,

(37:06):
I'm fucking buying, the lab analyst admitted that they routinely
processed samples from different cases at the same time, as
well as one of the negative controls processed in this
case at the time that the pane hoose sample WASSS
that was processed had become contaminated. Like not even connected

(37:26):
to all of this, but the analyst had tried to
hide that fact. Oh. In addition, Ruyl's DNA wasn't even
processed at that lab. It was sent out for testing
in a different location, but they still were able to
cross contaminate at that at the lab where it had originated.

(37:47):
Like that's some fucked up shit. Yeah, right, So after
minutes of deliberation laterman was convicted of first degree murder
and got life in prison.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Minutes of deliberation, HM, Jesus.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
I know, all right, So I kind of wrote these
things of like, here's what's hard to argue with a
leaderman being guilty is that all of the crimes that
were talking, including mixers, had to do with ride somewhere,
which was the mo of the co ed killer. They

(38:21):
all had something tied around their necks, some of which
didn't belong to the murder victim, including Jane's. The first
you were menstruating, which is fucking insane, bizarre. They were
all left in locations where they would eventually be found,
kind of on purpose. They all were connected to the university,
which I mean, if you live in ann Arborth, it's

(38:42):
kind of hard not to.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it's a university town.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
A lot of them were strangled, and the fifth known
victim was shot in the head as well, so it
wasn't totally against his emo. But at the same time,
the majority of those murders he was never tried and
convicted for, so it's not like we can say that
he did them definitively right. But according to Leederman's roommate
in college, Leaderman owned and liked to shoot at twenty

(39:08):
two caliber and he was obsessed with the serial murders. Ooh,
so it's kind of the it's kind of this any
it reminds me of making a murderer where it's like,
I don't know if he's guilty or innocent, but he
shouldn't have been prosecuted based on these pieces of evidence.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, that's right, And that's really the only thing you
have at the end of the day, because everything else
is bias and circumstance and kind of judgment.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah. And it was two thousand and two at the
height of like CSI being a big thing and everyone
thinking DNA was like the end all be all and
not realizing that so much of it, like eye witness testimony,
was flawed because it was because human error.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
And people not admitting like covering up Yehan air is
like good God.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, so that's that's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
So you believe that Leederman should not be in jail.
You think that that last death, that the woman that
was found on the graveyard is a co ed killer.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
I don't think I can't say that definitively. I think
there should have been more evidence to try. I feel like,
now in twenty sixteen, we should go back and look
and find whatever other evidence we can find and DNA
tests those other victims that we are attributing to the
co ed killer kind of cross reference them with Jane

(40:34):
Mixer and see what really happened. But I don't I'm not.
I can't say definitively that he should be let out.
I just think in the same way Steven Avery was like,
should get a new trial, and you know, Cereal a
Non said it should be. You know, you can't convict someone,
especially when they have shoddy defense based on these basic things.

(41:00):
Is that you know, in the future we're going to
laugh at as like I know, and the future could
be like four years right, right, I mean, CWE thousand
and two seems not that long ago. Right, It's so huge.
It's a huge difference when it comes to like scientific
evidence and all this.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Now, where do you think, uh, where do you think
that bloody four year old plays into this?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
I mean, that's the most fun. That's the that's the
only reason I'm talking about this murder is because that
is so fucking insane and so clearly human error of
cross contamination in that lab. I can't believe the trial
went forward after that was found out.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
That lawyer, when he found that out, that that's what
that blood spatter was, must have been so stoked the defense,
who I don't know who ever found that it was
just like this is I think the defense big reveal
of like is this blood well four years old?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
The defense should have been stoked that that was that
they found a four year old's blood who had been
whose DNA had been tested in the same lab a
day before. But for some reason he didn't pursue that
enough in the trial to convince the jury that that
was fucking insane.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Because at the time, you like you're saying, it's like
DNA is a lock.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, I mean those prosecutors were good.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I'm sure. Well, and also you get somebody it's like
it's you know, people want a thing like that. People
want that story finished close period. They want they want
it closed up, and they want somebody to pay. Yeah,
and that's a hard position. You know. We've felt that

(42:45):
same way, Yeah, where it's just like erase what's happening,
or like somebody gets justice.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, justice is such a fraudulent term.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
So this week I'm going back to my tried and true,
which is I'm going to retell you one of my
favorite episodes, If I Survived.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Well, I never I've never seen this show, so please do.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
And this one I love because this plays on if you,
if you have some home alone, as a young lady
fears this is going to cause some problems. So spoiler alert,
trigger alert, scary scary alert. Oh no, it has all
these pieces And the first time I saw this on

(43:28):
I Survived, I was like gripping the couch. I was
so freaked out. So essentially it goes a little something
like this. It's April fifteenth, nineteen ninety five, and a young, bright, beautiful, successful,

(43:49):
twenty five year old young lawyer named Jennifer morey Is
goes out and has a drink with her friends after
work one night.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Big mistake, her fault. She goes.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
She's at the local alehouse, all her friends are there.
She doesn't want to go. At first, they convince her
to stay. Then she ends up having a great time
and she stays until midnight. Then her friend drives her
home and she lives in an apartment complex called Bayou

(44:23):
Park in Houston. And the reason that she picked this
apartment complex to move into was because it was all
about security and it had not just like you know,
the the apartment security guards they had. They actually hired
Pinkerton security guards to work at this place.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
So we go back in time. That's still a thing.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
No, they've been around. That's how long they've been around.
It's still like a major company. So and that name
means a lot to people in security. So, uh, that's
why she picked that apartment building to live in. So
she goes home at midnight, goes in. Let's say she
washed her face, which is what you should do before
you go to bed, ladies. So she goes in, gets

(45:09):
ready for bed, goes to bed, turns out all the lights,
wakes up at four am. There's someone on top of her. No, yeah, yeah,
I get ready for this. It's going to be this
the whole time. So there's someone straddling her and she
can feel something on her neck and she realizes someone No,

(45:30):
is not. She realizes someone's broken into an apartment and
they're attempting to rape her. She can't figure out if
she's dreaming. At first, it's that horrible in between feelings,
and she finally when she becomes fully awake and she
realizes someone straddling her, they've got a knife to her
throat and they're going to rape her, she just starts fighting.
Good for her, so she does everything she can. She

(45:55):
she fights this guy. She grabs the knife. It's all
the stuff, all the crazy shit, and she's fighting him
so hard that he cuts her from the cheekbone to
the middle of her neck and he slices her neck over.
So she keeps on fighting, but suddenly it gets very

(46:17):
slippery and there's blood everywhere, and finally she starts losing
blood and like the fight goes out of her. He
takes her by the hair and he pulls her across
out of the bed, across the room, throws her into
the bathroom and says, you stay in here, and you

(46:38):
do not move, and he slams the door, and so
she throws her back up against the door. In the bathroom,
she grabs a washcloth and she puts it up against
her wound. Pressure constant pressure when you have a wound
like that. She throws her feet up against the wall
and she's like jammed herself there. So he can't come

(46:59):
back in. And then she sits there and waits and listens,
and she hears him zip his pants up, and then
she waits, and then she hears the door close, and
then she waits a little bit longer to make sure,
and then she goes to open the door, and she
can't open the door because there's so much blood on
her hands that she cannot get a grip on the door.

(47:22):
And she's pulling at it and pulling out it. And
then she actually says in the story, she actually started
laughing because she was like, Oh, this is how I'm
going to die. I get stuck. I get stuck in
the bathroom, and that's how I can't get help. So
finally she gets out. She yanks the door open, she
gets out, She fumbles to throw on the hallway light.

(47:42):
The lights are dead. Oh god, she crawls. She gets
to the phone. Phone's dead. No no, no, no, yeah.
So then she finds her cell phone. It's live. She
brings it back into the bathroom and she calls time
on one. So that night a man named Richard Everett

(48:03):
was working, was the dispatcher. He had just gotten onto
his shift.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Got heroes.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
So this is four am when this started, so uh so,
I guess he was starting a very early morning shift,
maybe middle of nine, I don't know. So she explains
to him what's happened, and he just starts telling her,
you're going to be fine. Just try to stay calm,

(48:31):
don't talk that much. We just keep it. The cops
and the ambulance are on their way right now. They're
going to be there really soon.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
You know, we could listen to this right now and
we're going to be fine. There's no fucking way I
would ever listen to it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
And she's saying, I'm bleeding so much, you please make
sure they hurry or whatever, and he's like, they're coming
there as fast as they can. Just hold that washcloth.
You're gonna be okay. And so, after like ten minutes,
he's just talking her down and she's actually starting to
calm down and she's feeling okay. There's a knock at
the door. No, no, no, So she's like, there's someone's

(49:05):
knocking at the door, and he's like, who is it?
And she goes, well, hold, so she yells from the
bathroom who is it, and he says, this is Brian Gibson.
The security guard that's on duty tonight. No, I just
got attacked by a guy who jumped off your balcony.
Are you okay?

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Is that true? Is it true?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
And she doesn't know, so she's like, he goes, are
you okay? You should let me in, and she goes,
I'm okay, I'm talking to nine one one right now.
And the dispatcher on nine to one one goes, wait,
what's going on and she goes, no, it's okay. It's
the security guard. He wants me to let him in,
and Richard Everett, for no reason except for gut goes,

(49:50):
do not let him in the door, and she goes, no,
it's Pinkerton's security. That's the whole apartment, Like, that's the
whole setup here, and he goes, he said, here's the thing,
we haven't notified security at your apartment complex yet, so
unless they have a police scanner.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yeah, but if he's someone jumping off, that doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
What is he gonna do? We don't know about that story.
But he goes, we just don't know what that is,
so just don't let him in. So she's like, I'm
not gonna let you in right now. Like Guy's like
it's I swear it's okay. Here's my badge, you know,
Like he's he's like, I just need to help you.
Are you you know, are you bleeding? There's blood out here?
You know. I want to make sure that you're okay.

(50:34):
And she's like, I'm fine. The cops are on their way,
and he's like, I know I can hear the alarms,
you know, I know CPR, I can help you whatever,
and and and he goes, I'm sorry, I just the
dispatcher says to Jennifer, I just don't think you should
let him in. And she's like, okay, I'm really scared though,
I'm starting to lose blood. I'm getting light headed.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
I gotta have a coochie twins.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
This is so exciting, Like what if I what if
I pass out and I'm here and the door is locked,
they kick and so he's just he just keeps talking
to her, and he's like, just listen to the sound
on my voice. I'm watching the cops drive up the street.
They are three minutes away, so you just have to
hang on for three more minutes. And meanwhile, the guy's like, Jennifer,

(51:19):
can you talk to me? Are you okay? You know,
can you just let me in? And so he wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
If he was supposed to be there, he wouldn't be
so insistent. He wouldn't, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Like, well, but it's a woman who's bleeding and there's blood.
It's like, clearly there's a scenario. Now, if you were
a security guard and you knew a woman had just
gotten attacked with a knight, you would kick the door down.
And she's in there bleeding out and freaking out and
not letting anybody help her, you might kick the door down. Yeah,
So but Richard's like, I don't know, so just don't

(51:53):
do it. Well, then the knocking starts getting harder. He's like,
you need to let me in here, and she then
she's starting freak out because now she doesn't trust anybody.
She has no idea what to do. But then suddenly
she hears the sirens in the background, so she knows
the police. And he's like, do you hear the sirens?
They are coming up the driveway road. She's like yes,

(52:15):
and he goes so the ambulance is there, like you
are going to live, You're fine, so just keep that
door shit and you will be fine. Well, the knocking stop.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Oh my god, I got.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
It's totally silent outside of the door. So now she's
more scared because she's like, what the fuck is it.
When the cops pull up to this apartment complex, this
security guard, Brian Gibson, meets them out there and he
is a mess. He is bleeding from his right hand,
there's blood on his face, there's blood on his uniform. Sure,

(52:45):
and he tells the police his story that he walked up,
he saw a guy, he jumped down from her second
story balcony and attacked him. They got into this fight,
and the guy ran off into the woods into a
field over on the side, and he didn't see where
he went. And then he went up to check on
the lady, who will not let him in. Who's freaking
out right, So the cops are like, all right, stay here,

(53:07):
sounds good. They start to check everything out. There's no
trail into the grasses, Dewey, no at six am, no nothing,
So they're like, get that guy and put him in
a room over there. They go up to Jennifer's apartment
that the ambulance has already taken her away. She's going
to live because the show was called I survived. She

(53:29):
told the story herself with a big old scar in
her neck. She's gorgeous. This woman is like gorgeous and
a lawyer, so she's she's killing it. The cops go
into her apartment. There's blood everywhere. There's also a Pinkerton
hat and there's men's underwear on the ground and a
knife farm So they pick up all this shit and

(53:50):
they go back down to Brian Gibbson. They the Pinkerton's
security guard that works there.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
How is that in there?

Speaker 1 (53:55):
And they say can you take your shirt off please?
And he's like, no, I no, it's fine. I was
actually the one that was attacked. They like, take your
shirt off. There's claw marks all over his body. Oh
my god, he's not wearing underwear. Nope, he has shaved
his pubic care. No pubic care meaning no hair left behind.

(54:15):
That's exactly right. And he didn't have a hat because
he was the person the security guard at the apartment
building where she lived.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Did he have keys to everywhere? Was? Well?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
He didn't have. Oh yeah, he must have had keys
to get into her house, master or some key or
he could have like I mean he had total access.
Oh sorry, shit, that was the most upsetting thing that
I read. No, no, no, but I just forgot it.
It's he was calling her by her first name when
he was talking to her before when he was first

(54:50):
on her, which I think is one of other The
other reasons she got so freaked out and fought so
hard is because it's like, what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Guess how much I'm sleeping tonight? Zero?

Speaker 1 (55:02):
But she survived. It turns out, Yeah, so they arrest him.
He gets twenty years for attempted murder.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, what the fuck? And he's on parole now what No,
I'm going to fucking in Texas, jump off my second
story balcony.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
He's on Pearl in Texas.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
When is attempted murder going to be treated like what
it was intended to be?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Like murder?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
You mean murder? Right? That is so troubling to me
that it's like, well, you didn't get away with it.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
See you're not because she lived.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Right, simply because she fought, so you don't. You don't
deserve the punishment of what you were intending to fucking do. Well.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
And also the cops are positive that if she had
let him in when he came back next time to
quote unquote check on her. He would have killed her
and picked up all his shit.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
He totally, totally.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
There's that is absolutely there. The cops are positive that's
the reason.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
So did what's the name of the guy the uh
the N one dispatcher?

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Did he get Richard Everett?

Speaker 2 (56:07):
All of the ribbons and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
They're still friends to this day. He went to her wedding. Yeah,
my god, Yeah, they're close friends.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
I'm gonna cry.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah. And she talks about him when in her episode
of I Survived, She the way she talks about him
is like one of the sweetest things you've ever seen.
I can't deal with that because he and the worst
moment of her life like saved her life essentially in
that way that like beautiful things happened too, hideous fucking things.
And she went on to become the trauma support the

(56:42):
director of Trauma Support Services of North Texas. Gorgeous and
she I read a thing. She went around. I mean
it was twenty fifteen, I think when the article what
the article is from twenty thirteen or twenty fifteen. She
was going around speaking at schools and telling people horrible
things happen in life. But it's all about what you're prepared,

(57:04):
how you're prepared for them, And basically she gave this
talk that was kind of like the stuff that we
talk about, which is like running scenarios and thinking about
these things can actually help you not panic and not
completely lose it when something really upsetting happens because you've
kind of run a scenario. You know where your cell

(57:24):
phone is, you have things plant, you know where flashlights are, like,
you have things planned out a little bit, so you
at least can put a plan together.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
It's a good way to like to make sense of
your anxiety and that like, well, maybe someday this anxiety
or this thing that me thinking about these awful things
happening is going to make me better in a situation
where I need to not fucking panic because I've already
run the scenario through my head.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yeah, and also it can take away from that, like
you don't need to beat yourself up for thinking about it. Yeah,
you don't need to tell yourself you're crazy for thinking
about it. You're smart for thinking about it, and you're
empowered for thinking about it, and you're taking action. It's
not you know, you don't have to live in it
and shut the door, you go out in your life
knowing that you are armed with information.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
And having an awareness and that security that you you know,
you've done as much as you can with your anxiety
to prepare yourself, but you're not letting it take over
your life. Yeah, and get in the way, like you're
you're not going to never leave the house again because
you're aware of all these fucking terrible things to happen.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Well. And also it's like, this isn't a story about
how all security guards are evil. So a lot of
them do just as good shit as Richard Everett, the
nine one one dispatcher did. A lot of them have
you know good that good intentions of I took this
job because I want to help people for this exact reason.
But you take it on a case by case basis. Yeah,
So if you meet a person you get the weird

(58:50):
feeling in your gut, absolutely trust yourself and just get
out of there. You know what I mean, you don't,
That's that's what all that's about.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
It's like to the individual, well, arm yourself with knowledge,
but don't let that overwhelm you.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah, and also take a break every once in a while.
And like the other day is some girls like I
had a She tweeted, I had a hard day at work.
I'm gonna drink wine and watch I survived, And I
wrote back, drink wine and watch Bob's Burger if you
already had a bad day, relaxed.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
That's a great suggestion.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Take a break. Watch fucking Rosemary and Time, where it's
a lot of nice flowers, a lot of great accents.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
It's chill.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
You don't live in it, like like visit and then
go somewhere else for a while.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
That's a beautiful take it. Have a glass of wine
and watch Bob's Burgers as like Bob's Burgers.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Is the Oh my god, it makes me so happy.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
It is the most a perfect show.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
It's positive, it's a family that loves each other, that's funny,
that isn't perfect at all, and it's hilarious relatable.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
My six year old nephew is obsessed with Bob's Burgers.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
The songs they write for that show are the best
comedy songs there are. Yeah, it is my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
How they come up with those every episode goos my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Whoever their musical I should look it up right now.
Whoever their musical director is fucking straight up one thousand
props to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Yeah, nuts And that's Karen. That was You tell those
stories so well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
It's almost like I'm not cheating, Yeah, when I am.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I wouldn't know. This is a podcast where some of
the time I just retell TV shows.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
But you say that, but you tell them, you don't
read them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
That's true because I've seen that one. Jennifer's I've watched
probably five times because she tells it's it's so compelling.
She's so real, she's upset at certain points, she's very
angry and like very self righteous at certain points. It's
a fucking awesome thing to behold. So she's a great survivor.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
You tell it to me like we're at a party together,
Whereas like if I did mine, it would be like
so many missing elements of it because I can't remember
half the shit that like I have to kind of
like go off my own notes, which I don't copy
and paste, but you know I lead with them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Right, Yeah, But I mean I'm just copying her story. Wow,
I mean, that's that's stories though, you just Yeah, That's
how I learned to tell stories is just both of
my parents, That's all they did.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah, it's like we're sitting by the fire.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Two cavemen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Two cavemen, sitting by fire, tales as old as time.
The only thing we have to eat our cookies.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Oh did someone come running from.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I didn't say it right. Oh, he's just he's a
job of the hut right now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Guys, thanks for listening. Do all the things that you're
supposed to do and support. We love you. We couldn't
be doing better. And it's because you guys all listen
and support and do all the things we always ask
you to do. Couldn't thank you more for that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
The best listener like you, guys are the best.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
It's we are so lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
We are so fucking lucky. Just make sure that Tuesday
Saxony and you don't get murdered. Elvis, you want to
cook Key, You want to cook y