46 - Skippers Unite!

In a no nonsense episode of My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia discuss the serial killer Leslie Allen Williams and the enigmatic Israel Keyes.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Go, Hi, Hi, How are you hi?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Go?

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Podcasting? Podcasting? Go to do I have podcasting?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
What if this was a podcast about podcasting, that could
be a thing that would be the end of us.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
What if this is a podcast about podcasts to talk
about podcasting?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
What it is a podcast about how to start a podcast?
And then we started listening to it and learn and
we're soon able to start a podcast correctly.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
That would be I think that would be detrimental to
our uh.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
To our brand, our brand, sorry.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Sorry, detrimental to our personalities.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Detrimental to rid our rift styles. Yeah, well this is
all this is all scripted, this part, Isn't it weird
how much we play it natural when actually we're reading
every word we're saying right now.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Off of large teleprompters.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Georgia laugh out lot, Oh shit, Karen laugh even louder
and clap your hands.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Fuck I ayey? Did you say bye? Cy?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Welcome to my Favorite Murder. Welcome to my Favorite Murder.
The podcast that asked the question why do people listen
to this? And doesn't answer it and then talks about
other stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, our blessed, blessed Stephen Ray Morris brought me a
gift today that you know people who know how to
give a gift. Yeah, and it really means a lot,
because like my own mother for years at Christmas, I
would open things and be like you clearly wanted someone else.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
As a child, I walked.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
In tonight and there was a diet Coke tall boy
waiting for me on George's cocky table.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
He doesn't even he puts it in Karen's spot, Like,
he doesn't even say like, hey, Karen, like handed to her.
It's like then he did it when I, like, I
came out and I was like, oh, like, it's just
so sweet and so subtle, and it's like in your spot, thinks.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
All those things Steven.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
And then on top of it, the things I want
the most, which are diet coke and quantity.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Steven's your new mommy, steeze my mommy. And also I
would call them Steve. And also.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Also when I was a young alcoholic, really ready to
take on the world through a slurry speech and secrets.
That's why man secrets. No one wanted to hear I
say it. I would drink Budweiser tall boys from the
corner store. They were cheap and they would get you
like buzzed enough so that you could still use money

(02:50):
and not like lose your lose money or lose.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Your perfect buzz that you should have just ridden, but
instead you added to it always you know what I mean, Yes,
two glasses of champagne here, I am fucking rock me,
like you know, and then like her can.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Then I'm like, well one more than yes, and then
I'm like, oh yeah, stupid.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
And then I go two more. Now let's switch to Jamison's.
Now let's fight the doorman. That's why I had to
stop drinking. It would always go down this path where
I was like, wait, don't do that. Now it's on.
I thought you were like, now it's on to gin. Nope,
Now I'm fighting the door.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Now, Duke's up.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Now it's like I'll kick you in the shin and
then tell you a secret.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Oh I'm plucky. I'm plucky, Karen.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm angry about things that don't make sense. I've had
every advantage in life, and I'm still mad.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
I want it all.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
So thank you, Steve, Thank you Steve, thanks for bringing
back her memories.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Means the world. I'm glad, and thank you all for listening.
Yeah to my favorite murder. That's Karen, by the way,
and that's Georgia. George is still an alcoholic. Karen's alcoholic.
It's all the same. No, I'm still I'm still an alcoholic.
You always are, yes, but you're not an alcoholic or
you would have fucked everything up. You know.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
I'm a practicing I'm a I went to a new
doctor today and I was like a naturiopath.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I can't say it, natural, natriopath.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
A homeopath, NA natural path, a natural path.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
And I was like, how do I explain to her,
like what's wrong with me? Because it's not wrong with me?
And I was like, oh, I know, and I'm a
very highly functioning mess.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh that's it, that's it. Yes, yeah, like I did
she get it? Yes, she was great, she got me awesome. Yeah.
Who can't say that, though? Who would's straight out about themselves?
People who aren't high functioning. Oh that's true.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
You know that might be me or I'm like, I'm
a mess that also can't return phone calls.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Except you're you also clearly don't believe in yourself because
you're incredibly high functioning. Oh that's your a fucking job
and a hit fucking podcast. She became that person Lizzie Cooperman.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, speaking of Hey, we're on the iTunes, fucking I know.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I think we have to cut down the bag corner.
It gets me scared.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
I just wanted to thank everyone for listening. You're right,
because they wouldn't. We wouldn't be on this if nobody listened.
That's exactly right. That's why I wanted to thank you guys. Yeah,
thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
By bye. See later. That was brag corner. That was
That was brag, but but really embarrassed about a corner.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I have a lot of shame issues. That's what I
have to take to my nature path. Brag shame issues,
bragshame corner, guts. You have to take your natural path.
I'm going to take it down a natural path to
a pond. I'm gonna throw it down in the pond
of shame. Oh it's a beautiful pond. It's such a
gorgeous bottomless pond. I go boating there, like sail boating there.
Sometimes I really enjoy myself on the pond of shame.

(05:53):
I bring am what do you parasol? Yes? Right, yeah,
like a like a classy lady from the twenty A
shape a classy, shameful person.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's me. That's me all over.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
What the corners do you want to talk about? I
guess should we get ready to show corners? So like
the Skippers, don't get this part tour corner to corner.
Exciting announcement.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
We're gonna have a tour happening.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
You guys, we're somebody believes were legit because they had
actually planned a semi not really nationwide tour for us
and perhaps slightly outside nature I mean America national.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
We're only going to national parks.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
That's where Karen's trying to say, we're only doing shows
in natural parks, and we're trying we're trying to get
disappeared out of a natural park, like those weird stories
where people disappear out of natural parks.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
And everyone the only you have to chop down a
tree if you're gonna come.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
We're gonna basically chop down all the woods. We're gonna
go find the bad people in the woods. Yeah, and
we're going to live podcasts murder them.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Have you heard the number of like how many do
we already talk about this? How many murderers are and
you've brought that up. What how many murderers are murders
happen in national parks?

Speaker 2 (07:11):
And the whole thing of children disappearing in national parks
and it's like is it an animal or isn't it
a human animal? But if it's an animal, how did
they get so far away? Ten miles clothing thing? Yeah, no,
there's no bones or spoor.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Fuck, I know, we got to do a fucking national
park show.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
National park tour where we're dressed up in park ranger outfit.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Oh I look good and brown.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I know, kind of like I'll do a moss green
thing that put on me, but I'll wear a strong
red lip and they'll be like, I don't know, I
like it anyway. Type ponytails just because they're no nonsense.
And those paths where it looks like we're writing people tickets,
it's like it's.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Love it just we can't get line disease. Hey, do
you guys want to know about our tour?

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Actually should we talk about the thing we brought up now?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
So we're gonna I guess we're gonna be a tour
from like January to April. Yes, but like the most
like we don't want to travel that much tour like
a weekend or tour. We should call it something that
we don't. We should call it we don't try too
hard tour.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right, give us like three weeks and we'll get a
great name of a tour for you.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
We don't care about you. And it's a city we're
not going to. We don't care about it, do it, don't? Okay, okay, Oka, And.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Everyone's hard that we have to go there because we're
actually going to one of the cities I said, I
don't want to go to fucking that's right, all right, ready, okay.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
All of these tickets are going to be for sale
on Friday, Friday, December sixteenth, that's right. But here they are,
so you can fucking prep your shit. Get ready on
your fucking mom's TV.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's right. Get some money, Collect all of those quarters
all around your house. Put them in the coinstar machine.
See how much you get.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah, and take out those random Canadian coins.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
See if they Everyone is screaming at us.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Okay, January twenty first, we're gonna be in Los Angeles
at the Riot Festival. The February seventeenth, we're going to
mean Oakland at the Fox Theater. February eighteenth. We're gonna
be in Vancouver at the Vogues. February nineteenth. We're gonna
mean Seattle at the Neptune. March third.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
We're gonna be in Boston at the Wilbur March fourth.
We're going to be in New York at the Beacon.
So all you people who are not can't go to
the Bellhouse on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Beacon March third. We're making good. It's a very large theater.
Don't be mad, you'll be fine. Where was I?

Speaker 3 (09:25):
March twenty fifth, Portland, Oregon, Revolution Hall? April sixth, Indianapolis
at the Egyptian Room, Innapolis.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
What's up? Best friends?

Speaker 2 (09:34):
And then guess where we're going on April seventh, Milwaukee,
Hell Yeacon Paps Theater?

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Are you serio dude? Is that like the Paps Pops? Yes?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Oh my god, I'm the real so much Paps. I'm
gonna start drinking. Whe't we let me do that? Chet?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
You have one? Can't you have like Paps? And then
you're hungover for if I shot down one beer, it
doesn't count. Just kidding. If it's a kegstand, it's not.
You know, if you're not on your.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Feet, don't make me do a diet coke tall boy,
spit take please.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
And then finally we'll be back at our original place.
Will be on April eighth in Chicago again at the
VIC Theater.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
We love you, Chicago. We're going back to Chicago. To Chicago.
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Then unscheduled, but plan in the works. Planned London, Australi.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, dude, do you know what I've decided? What I
don't know?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Ryan does sound like a dick. But if we go overseas,
I'm fucking flying first cut. I'm flying myself first class.
Oh that's nice because you have all those anxieties about travel,
and my therapist is like, fucking spend a little extra money,
that's right, and it's okay, Like don't buy all the
word shit you buy, so.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Save up, save up, and get one of the craziest,
most expensive.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
But that's very true because I don't know how much
it is. Isn't really crazy. It's like it's going to
be a couple thousand dollars, never mind, I thought to
be like a thousand.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Maybe it'll it'll be pretty expensive, especially if you're go
into like Europe or Australia. But like, for Australia, you
have to. I Actually my father, who is very frugal
and very like no frills, no frills, kill garaf, he
was like, you have to, cause my mother and he
loved Australia and they would go. They went there a
bunch and he was like, we the first time we went,

(11:16):
we flew over coach and they came back executive class,
which I think is just like the cheap man's version flass.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's what it used to be. It's what normal flying
used to be, is a business class.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Before they smashed everybody together.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Anyhow, he basically said, the man who won't spend money
or anything, was like, you have to buy a first
class ticket. If you're going, you're gonna be in a
plane for that long. Treat yourself. It's completely worth it,
so don't feel bad.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
I'm doing it anyway.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Usal please come and see us if you heard your
city or we're gonna have VIP tickets, oh yeah, which
I feel weird about.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Do you look.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
We're just gonna have to buy into the fact that
people will spend extra money to get front row seats
of special poster that no one else can get.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Meet and greet afterwards because we can't meet all of
you like we did in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, that was a special occasion. That was special.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
And then like access and then some merch shit, special merch,
special merch whatever.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
But you can get it.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
You can get like a you know, if your if
it's your friend's birthday and you suddenly got a promotion
at your job, you go ahead and get a few.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
We're not trying a big time, you guys, and part
of it, thank you for coming.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
That's what the Rolling Stones do. So it's what we do.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, you're all VIPs in our hearts, except only if
you buy these tickets.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
You know, we actually should start scripting out this part.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Okay, so they're all going on Tale on December sixteenth. Goodbye, okay,
click click click what else?

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (12:43):
I just saw the pictures on the Facebook of the
DC meet up.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Did you look at it? Did you look at the
cocktails they made? Yes? Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Did you now the cocktail that was the Karen is
exactly my person shut up and I don't know who
that person is, but it was literally like Scotch booie
coffee and like it was pretty middle finger.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
It made me so happy. It was pretty legit. Wait,
let me read the menu. Because the menu was so good,
so it was called that.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
It just said.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
The menu was called drinks, and the underneath it in
parentheses is I do not drink with older people I love.
And then the beer on draft was called stay out
of the Forest and drink local Beer. Then the beer
in the bottle was Toxic Masculinity. Yeah, and then they
had the boot. The cocktails was called I'm going to
go get some juice. In case you're new to this,

(13:31):
these are all things that have come out of our faces.
So there was a Georgia which I loved, pepper spray first,
the fuck politeness, fuck everyone, the sweet honesty, and the
Karen Coffee Scotch vodka, Jesus Roan Booie chocolate bitters.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I bet that was fucking good. I mean, and you
need one.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's truly like and I would have drank three, it's
really I really identified with the Karen.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
And then their jello shot of the week was called
round shit.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, thank you guys, Thank you DC. That's hilarious and
it's very exciting. Although I liked it, what's that?

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Where are we going to? D c oh? I won't
for political reasons. I'm just kidding. For a minute, I
was like, oh, no, you're Karen. Yeah, I don't have
political reason. No, I'm not sure. I guess he's just
like booking the places he's booked. Yeah, this might be
our first kind of tour.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, I mean we're this is Yeah, we're just doing
our best unless this motherfucking implodes. Give you imagine halfway
through we're scratching each other's eyes out. I think one
of those dates is like right around when we started.
It's like our anniversary. That'd be very cool, very cool.
What if our anniversary shows in Indianapolis and we're just
like hands across America.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
I love you, we build a bridge of love. Again.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
I apologize for saying I would never go there it's
too late, because I'm going it's too late.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, No, we're we're going to show up there.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
What if? What if we're there when that there's like
a true crime convention that's there.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I think you did it on purpose. No, I think
we sent him that, like can we go to this?
Are you serious?

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (15:03):
There's a true come convention in Indianapolis and our fucking
amazing dude, like crying.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
A little bit right now? Why just I like I
like it all so much. It's a lot. I like
it so much. It's really a lot. It's good time
like it's so much. Yeah, it's really good. This is crazy.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Now can I change the topic really quick? I can
tell you want to and I'll let you.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Thank you. I'm not comfortable. I'm not comfortable in celebration.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Or this is called this is you get one free
change the topic every episode.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
The yogurt shop murderers were twenty five years ago yesterday.
I have the book right over there. Serious, Yeah, are
you reading the book about it? I haven't started because
because of reasons, but because you can't read, you don't
know how to read.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
The book is called was, it's called Who Killed These Girls?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
By really Lowry, and I think it's new and it's
funny because oh, you know what was happening.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I was gonna do.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
That, and I have a draft of it. And as
I was writing the draft, Emily Gordon texts me and says, have.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
You read Who killed these Girls?

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Who killed the The fucking moment I was typing this shit,
that lost my mind and then I was like, well,
I don't want to sell the chick's slender, so I'm
not gonna so I'm gonna order it.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
And read it first.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
When they I saw the picture on the Facebook page
this morning, and the picture of these girls from this time, niece,
it's it made me well up. It's just like it's
four girls who are just teenage girls, and.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
One was a friend who just wanted to hang out. Well,
you know when you go like you're closing, well, I
don't want to be alone. I'm gonna go hang out
with you, all you clothes and all fucking fill napkin
things or whatever.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, and then when one girl had to bring her
little sister, so her little sister was.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
Hanging out there. You guys don't know about yogurtchhotmers. Don't
look it up because I'm gonna cover it one day.
But it's it's fucking and it's heavy, and it's cold.
Case it's unsolved. But then there's a lot of people
someone was in prison for it, sit and jailed and
confess to it.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I won't say anymore.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Okay, Yeah, I want to borrow this when you're done, Okay.
I just I just wanted to kind of cite it
because it's such a long time and it's a cold case.
I mean, like, whoever went to jail for it is
not the person and.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
And there's such it's just all of us. It's all
of us.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
The reason I haven't started reading it yet is because
I went to therapy the other day and I was like,
I'm extra to press lately, and she's like, well, let's
think about, like what are some triggers in your life
like that.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
You do And I'm like, oh.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
You mean constantly reading and thinking about murders and crimes
and looking at fucking crime scene photos like it's not
just for my job.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, it suppresses me.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
So this week I was going to do a survivor
story just to be like it's okay, But I couldn't
find one.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Are you kidding me? I couldn't wind a good one.
I was just like, oh, well, that's not your jam.
It's not my jam. It's not what you hook into.
It doesn't interest you.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
I mean, you can never go up from Mary Vincent.
What's her name, Oh, Mary Vince, it is Mary Vincent. Yeah,
they can't go up from a fucking pregnant woman beating
the shit out of a woman trying to steal her baby.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, which you've done in the past, and mother, that's
Sarah Peters. You're so good at remembering things I didn't do.
Mary Vincente's now though.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
And Mary vincent who's just I mean, so I'm not
doing one of those Hi, Hi doing a murderer.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, that's what most people have tuned in for. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Also, I just wanted to talk about the now I
just wrote down Peppini. But are you following that case? No? Oh, yes,
you must be, which from a woman who was kidnapped
and she they found her on Thanksgiving Day and it's
up It took place up in Redding, California, which is

(18:49):
up north of Sacramentic. I don't I know, I've seen
the name that I haven't read about it, and they
just did a twenty twenty on it. Oh, there's a
mega thread on the Facebook page. It is the craziest
case and the newest thing that I just read this
morning is so it's basically the woman disappears. It's a
classic thing of their big signs saying please help us.

(19:13):
Then you have to read it. It's just like because
I actually found it.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I saw it on I saw like a oh, there's
a thread on the Facebook page like this must be
a good episode. Yes, so I found it and then
I read and the thing that in the in the conversation,
I was like, why are they who gives a shit?
It's the same thing that always happens, and what you know,
these phonoes don't make it like and I was like,
fuck this. Then, Okay, her husband killed her. Everyone knows
that then, but I didn't realize how recent it was.
And she came back. They found her. Oh she they

(19:40):
found her on the side of the road, chained.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Is this gone girl? Oh?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Hallie was telling me about this. Yes, it's the craziest thing.
And there's all these additional facts that keep unfolding that
are so crazy where it's it's what everyone was saying
in the mega thread, but it's so true. It's like
we're just waiting to find out what really happened. It's
like we're days away from them going they just found
this clue and here's what's actually going on.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Because no one wants to be too high heaven.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yes, and everybody's being very kind of aware of that, like,
don't nobody wants him to blame her or point of fingers,
say you're funny whatever. But if you watch the twenty twenty,
that it doesn't feel right, and there is this.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Do they know it doesn't? Like, can you tell that
they know about it not feeling I didn't.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I it's on my DVR, but I haven't watched it yet.
But there is My sister, of course, was telling me
word for a word all about it. And then there
is a private detective who showed up and said he
had a donation from an anonymous donor to a reward
that he was going to offer from an anonymous donor.
And then he kind of started taking over, like get
in front of everybody, like, hey, here's how it's going

(20:45):
to go, and he it's it's the weirdest.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
It's just weird, weird, weird. Nothing seems right.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I want to say that I could be totally wrong,
but I don't buy it. And you know, I saw
a couple of minutes of like the husband being interviewed. Yeah,
he doesn't seem right.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
It's going to be very interesting in like I think
it'll be like a month or less when something is
revealed and we're all just gonna go holy shit, because
it doesn't it just doesn't add up. And there's all
these extra things that don't make sense. Sorry, this is
a dumb thing to bring up with. I'm not being specific.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
No, it's good.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
People are into it. Gon do let's get merch corner
out of the way. Okay, So we have these new
fucking designs just like holiday designs. They're made by our
friend Kirsten Bencomo, who's like such a fucking badass and
she and she sent them to us and was like,
what do you think of these? And they're like holiday
designs that they say it's like an ugly sweater print

(21:42):
and it says stay sex, you don't get murdered. And
the little like holiday designs are like little tiny weapons,
like they're just it's it's next level.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
It's really fun.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Times from a distance it looks like, oh, look at
that holiday sweater and then you look close and it
says fuck everyone. Yeah, it's just that kind of totally
you know, my favorite murdered style fun that we bring
to you.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, it's gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
And so go to follow Kristin at c M y
Kirsten and on Instagram and then if you just go
to my favorite murder Shirts dot com and I know
everyone was like, why didn't you call it my favorite mercher,
and I'm like, because.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
You know what, everybody has great puns after the fact.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
You know what I mean, you weren't there. You weren't
there mentally, I was not there.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
If you if you not, you personally am some them
Like everybody can think of a great idea when they
have seven weeks to think of it, right.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
I also didn't think this would be a thing, and
so I.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Didn't get fucking clever, and I was like, it's not
gonna be a thing, and people aren't going to understand
and they're not going to correctly put in good night.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I see no stay awake because I feel like I
didn't think this was going to be a thing. Is
the banner that's waving above this podcast.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I love when people like tweet.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Criticisms and I just want to write back, are you
fucking kidding me? Like you do understand? You understand this
is a conversation we're recording.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Do you know how hurt I would feel if they
tweeted that if we put, if we put, if we
tried very fucking hard, like I'd like, shit, we did
our fucking bet.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
I stayed up for seven days research and we like
the state of the art fucking recording studio. But it's
my apartment, and sometimes there's fires outside, and sometimes my
fucking neighbor downstairs is playing World Warcraft very loudly.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
It's a fucking shit show. I mean, it just comes
back to go fuck yourself and the classic Jimmy Pardo
quote listen or don't. We can't. We can't, just can't,
and we want to and we won't, but we can't
do we want to? I don't know do you want to?
For some of the people, maybe do, but do they

(23:51):
even I don't. I don't either, I don't either.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Is it okay? It's okay?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
All right?

Speaker 1 (23:57):
So that's merch corner?

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (23:59):
I guess this has gone on so long? H Yeah,
I know we should we do this quickly. And we're like, yeah,
we're just gonna We're gonna do this quickly or get it,
get it done.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
George's got a storytelling show. We're gonna zip zap zop talkers.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
No way. Well, I just don't get to see you
that much. It's nice to.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Talk to you, miss miss you by.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Uh did you you had a thing you wanted to
tell me?

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I think I read all my things. I love the
fact that I didn't even know her first name when
I said the Peppini case, Sarah, I think or you.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Want to keep coming on about this? Didn't you hate it?
It kind of is the same, though, it really except
minus missing limbs.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
It's except for completely opposite, except for completely not. No,
I don't think I had anything else, uh that I
can remember, but my memory is going so crazy. I
started a new job, which I'm super excited about and
it's going to be super fun. But I, like, I
very cockily told Georgia. I was like, no, this is
going to be easy and we're gonna be I'm gonna

(25:05):
be able to do even more stuff this time because
blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Well of course it's we just.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Non stop ten am to like tonight, I got out it,
you know, going to.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Be honest, Like, my heart was a little broken when
you were like, I'm starting on Monday. Yeah, I'm like,
uh yeah, I had you for two weeks.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
You did, and now we're in the long distance some
murder relationship again.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
We're back to dapping to write civil war letters to each.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Other and we're like each other's what's it called when
you get custody of a kid?

Speaker 1 (25:34):
But like we're together of it. Oh like co parenting.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
We know we're uh when when you can see a
kid sometimes and it has to be super court appointed,
corn appointed friends. So like we Stephen is our fucking
corner corn appointed fucking supervisor, and like you and I
get to be together.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Once a week, we have to make sure we don't
abuse each other. No drinking, No, well, no that's true. Yeah,
I think I can't not work.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I can't. I can't. You're working.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
This is a job.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Now, I know, I know this is a job, but
it I mean, if anything didn't feel like a job,
I would say it's this.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Oh no for sure? Oh fuck that? Yeah, No, this
is fucking This is so stupid, like the fact that
I'm like, I'm depressed. What am I? I'm not doing anything?
Oh my god, I have a fucking career called my
favorite murder.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
No, it's the best. This is hilarious. It's like the
fucking Peppini case. I can't wait to see when unfolds.
It's gonna be either tragic and we were wrong.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yes, or everyone's gonna owe everybody in apology, or fucked
up and hilarious. Right and we were right? Yes, that
sounds fun. I mean that's kind of always the option too. Anyway,
So murder times murder or should we read our horoscopes?
Just relaxed, take a breathe other people's horoscope. But also

(26:55):
people keep on sending, which I love and it's hilarious.
We keep getting Amazon reviews for other things. Did you
see the one where it's a rock in a leather
in a leather like satchel? Really awesome? And I forgot
to retweet that. And we're also getting animals who are friends.
I just keep getting them. I appreciate it. So thanks

(27:17):
everybody for participating. Are you first on my first?

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Sorry? Are you first? Or on my first? Oh? I
thought you said something about a horse. I swear to god?
Are you a horse? Am I a horse? This week?
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I don't remember last week at all, Stephen, We're gonna
need you to take me. Oh last week was that
one of yours that I keep thinking about of the
babysitter and the children?

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Oh? Fuck, that wasn't rough you want? That was first?
Last week? Right? What was yours? No idea? What the
fuck is wrong with us?

Speaker 2 (27:53):
No?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
I mean, I'm like I'm about to be put into
a home. What is wrong? I was last week? Oh, oh, Luca,
fucking guy.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Did you see the people that sent the picture where
Lord Lucan and Brad Pitt? No, oh, yes, I saw
that one, and I saw someone went and took a
photo of the fucking plumber's arms. Yes, that was the best.
We got two pictures of the plumber's arms. Which was
the bar that Lord Lucan I don't know somebody went to.
But then Brad Pitt looks so much like Lord Lucan
when he has his inglorious bastard's mustache.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Calling it here.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
First, this is going to become a movie. Brad Pitt's
going to fucking play someone. We deserve royalties, Yeah, we boom.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
You definitely deserve it.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
We had our hand in this pie, Brad Pitt, Gross,
Phil Gross, but we still want money.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
But we left our hand in there. So then it's
that means it's you.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, okay, and mine's not super long, but it sucks.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Okay, all right, Karen? Yes.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
So.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
In May of nineteen ninety two, thirty nine year old
Leslie Allen Leslie Allan Williams's The Dude of Detroit is
arrested when the police find a woman in the trunk
of his car. All right, so that's where we're starting.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
A woman's body.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Woman, Yes, he ceased? Yes, okay, so no, no, I'm sorry, okay.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Sorry, she's alive. I'm sorry. I immediately started questioning.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
No, you're right to question because they clearly don't know.
Let me start over, okay.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
In May fifteen eighty two, thirty nine year old Leslie
Allan Williams of Detroit is arrested when the police found
a woman in the trunk of his car.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
A live woman. Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
He's charged with attempted murder, attempted rape, and kidnapping. She
had just been abducted from a cemetery that was close by.
She was visiting her mom's grave. What like, can you
pick a fucking better time, dude, Like, I don't know.
Want a good time to get kidnapped is but it's
not then well, I mean, if you're evil, that's the

(29:56):
best time.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah. Oh man, oh wait till you're at your status. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's either that or when you're watching ordinary people, they're
a couple times I'm gonna grab you.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
That is the saddest movie.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, or maybe if you're at the pound yeah, and
then you just walked out of the pound.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Post pound kidnappings.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
That's going to become the new fucking so sad, Oh
that's the new thing.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Or like you're in a dressing room trying to pull
on pants. This is why I don't go in dressing rooms.
That's not why. But also I don't go in dressing rooms.
Fuck that. Okay, I'm just gonna keep thinking thing and
then you got sorry. I love it.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
I know we're missing some good ones. So Leslie Alan
Williams he's a dude again. The first time he was
arrested was when he was a teenager, and he was
convicted of attempted breaking and entering, larceny from an auto,
breaking and entering, assault with intent to commit murder, assault,
and first degree criminal sexual conduct when he's a fucking

(30:54):
a teenager.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
So that was a ton of things. Yeah. Do you
think he's going to straighten his life out?

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Nope. Turns out nope.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
So in nineteen eighty three, he pleads guilty to sexual
assault with intent to commit kidnapping and assault with intent
to sexually penetrate for a kidnapping committed was committed less
than two weeks after he's paroled from prison. So the
original time he gets prison when he was a teenager,
two weeks later he fucking does all this crazy shit
because he's like, I can't control myself.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, he's got out and he's like, what should I do? Pinball? Yeah,
he's like, rehabilitation works. No, it doesn't, it really doesn't.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
So at that time, in eighty three, he gets a
sentence of seven to thirty years. In nineteen ninety, after
serving seven years, he's paroled just.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
The fucking bare minimum. I mean bye.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Even though I like it took two weeks for him
to commit, I mean something that you and I are
going to commit in our lifetimes, probably, but not in
two weeks.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Right, you already have a couple of those.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
I don't want to talk about. It's not better about
what I do is not what I'm guilty of. Like
we're here to point the finger.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
You're so modest, Like you don't even want to make
this about you, and like just guineas, you don't want
to be more badass than Leslie Allen Williams my super
long rap sheet. Okay, paroled after seven years. And then
so when he gets caught with this woman in his
trunks who's still alive. That's two years after he's paroled, So, like,

(32:27):
what was he up to those past two years, Karen?

Speaker 2 (32:30):
He probably had like a bit a bunch of pictures
on his wall and he was connecting pictures with red string.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Mm hm oh they do that in every fucking done
active movie, right, yeah, Like, but not high detective.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
He's like the criminal that's really planning stuff out, Puck.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
I mean, right, you wanted a suggestion, didn't you? I did?
Thank you? Okay, no, I did.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
So.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
While he's in prison, he tells reporters that he should
be quote locked up, and that leads authorities to think
that he might be fucking had done some other crimes.
Then his girlfriend, always the fucking girlfriend, was like, you
know what, he liked to visit this one rural field
near town that maybe you should check that out.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Who visits fields?

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Fucking serial killers here bury bodies right in those fields.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Other than that, it's like, what do you why do
you need to go to a field. You're fine without
going to that field. Oh, unless you're a ghost baseball player,
you don't need to be in that field.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Oh but sure, that was good though. I really liked
that that.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Was like quick, So so his girlfriend. So they go
to this place and they find the body of eighteen
year old Cammi Marie Villanova villain Niova. So it's in
a field near town thirty five miles northwest of Detroit.
They're like, hey, dude, we found this body in this

(33:55):
place you like to hang out.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
And he was like, well, shit, I did it.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
So he canes and then he leads investigators to the
bodies of Michelle Urban, who was sixteen, and her fourteen
year old sister Melissa.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
They were originally thought.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
To be runaways, because that's what fourteen year olds do. Yeah,
he tells them that he had stalked the sisters in
their town of Heartland, it's another suburb of Detroit. He
used to break into homes there, and he used to
break into homes of women he met in his therapist's office.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
He went to therapy, clearly, yeah, he went to therapy.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
This is why I never talked to anyone in the
waiting rooms of therapy, and because I hate everyone.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
And also what do you talk about? I mean, how's
it going? Have you been crying? I've been crying.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Also, it just makes me mad when when we tell
these stories to each other, and it's like, you list
off all these shitty things someone's done. It's like and
his girlfriend were like, yeah, so you can just date.
Really not even his ex girlfriend, like his current relationship
he's having with another.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Adult, probably lives together. She probably like kicks him down
for a fucking diet coax. Yeah, right in the at
the least, at the very least, at the very least,
making that son of a bitch. Castle roles, Honey, I
hope you're happy now. Now, I don't mean that I
hope you're fucking I mean like, I hope you're happy.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
I truly hope she's happy. Better things have happened, Yes,
wishing her well.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
What is it that the South people say where they
say bless her heart's I always say wishing her well?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
He stalks them after he had broken into homes of
women he had met his therapist's office. Fucking awesome. That
makes me feel really great and safe. And he started
stalking these girls and he had been peeping at them.
He saw them eight times over several days while casing
houses to rob fuck. He said he was sexually attracted

(35:56):
to the way Melissa, the younger sister walked.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
No, that's not yours city sexually truck. I mean, it's
you have a problem. It's not the way she walks.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
It's not you're not allowed to be sexually attracted to
something that someone doesn't want.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
You to be. You know what I mean, doesn't make
any sense.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
It's it's a nice concept. Yeah, it doesn't want to
that way. Okay.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
So, armed with a three inch pocket knife, he confronts
the girls by jumping from some bushes and he puts
them in the trunk of his car. Don't get in
that trunk, rapes them, suffocates them. Within an hour of
kidnapping them, Oh god, they're dead.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
This guy's just on a fucking Leazley's a berserker. He's
just like only wants to do bad things all the time.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Well, he's like, I had two weeks before, who knows
how long I'm gonna have before.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
But it's like, well, don't do it, then, don't do
it like you got me. He can't.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
He clearly, clearly, clearly can this is what he wants
to do. Then let's go to therapy and have a relationship.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Fuck an asshole.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
He drives to the Oakland Cemetery Oakwood Cemetery and Fenton
and dumps the girls in a shallow grave that he
had fucking pre made before. Yeah, okay, then, so the
next victim is Cynthia Jones.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
She's sixteen.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
She's found near Milford, which you'll never remember this, but
my husband, Vince Averral is from Milford.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh, with that terrible story of those two girls, I'm
equally awful story of a fucking two sweet girls getting
murdered in a park in Milford.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Well, it just so happens there's another girl from Milford.
So in January, she and her boyfriend Luke were confronted
inside Luke's park car in Milford, which is Michigan Central Park.
So they're fucking parked making out and you're like, I'm safe,
I'm with a guy, everything's fine. It's like there's two
of us, like, buddy up.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Nope.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
They were told he needed their car because he had
just robbed a store, so he was like trying to
get their car. He escorts them both at knife point
in time, the Woods ties Luke to a tree and
takes off with Cindy. He drives an hour to his
apartment and he rapes and torturees her for a few hours,
then took her to Buno Road in Milford. We had

(38:15):
a pre dug actually, I'm sorry, that was a pre
dug grave, four foot grave. Stabs her, rapes her, puts
her unclothed body inside the grave.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Did I ask Vince about this? Yes? I did? And
what he remembers? Did he know?

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, here's what he said. Well, to be fair, he's
the one who told me to do this story. So
I said, what do you remember about this? This is crazy?
Just that her boyfriend got shit because he came up
on them in the park and tied him up and
took her. People wanted to know why he didn't do anything.
We were in eleventh grade.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's so awesome.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
He was in class with her, in school with her
and the boyfriend. People were saying, yeah to the boyfriend, Yeah,
that's fucking He just that's what he remembers.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
And then he asked his friend Dan about it, and
he said he doesn't know if it came from court
or he just remembered this.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
That the guy.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Had had Cynthia for a while before he killed and
raped her, reputedly, and would tell her he'd let her
go if she if she'd just let him each time.
Oh man, So that's what he aroun was probably from
the trial Milford fuck and it's like I've been there.
It's like a charming little suburb suburb. So all three

(39:25):
of the girls as well as as well as the
original on Miss Villanoiva, they disappeared on weekends between September
fourteenth and January twod that's for fucking women then, and
then he said to state police detectives, I don't want
to cause any trouble. I don't want to cause taxpayers
any grief. I want to be locked up, locked me up,

(39:48):
so I don't do it again. I have no control
over my life. Holy shit, I know. So his last
sentencing had been in nineteen eighty three when he threatened
to abduct a woman and he released her unharmed. So
he got a shit ton of breaks from the justice system,
getting light sentences, early paroles after guilty please on a

(40:08):
bunch of charges of breaking and entering, rape and assault
since nineteen seventy one. So multiple fucking breaks for rape,
like you're like, okay, breaking and entering fucking like that
just shows you how much fucking women's bodies meant back then,
rape and fucking assault.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
So he gets.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Sentenced everything, and fucking Detroit goes crazy because they're like,
how the fuck did this happen? And they want to
hold all the of parole board members accountable. Whoa yeah,
So they draft a legislation and make the panel more accountable.
They would get they got expanded, they could only serve
three year terms appointed by the Corrections Director, and they

(40:57):
could have them removed from the parole board.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
And it went crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
And this is kind of why the Detroit or Michigan
prison system is so full. It is because you can't
parole people anymore. Wow, so easily always it is like
really hard to get ever again.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Wow. Yeah. So it's hard to get paroled, so they're
fucking crowded a shit, Okay. Also there's a war on
drugs in it. There shouldn't be okay. And then.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Then so he's sixty two years old. Now he's serving
multiple life sentences in the Carson City Correctional Facility in Michigan.
I hope you don't live there. Everyone, We're not doing
a show there please. So then in July two thousand,
a local woman shares this memory she had from nineteen
seventy six. She says she's the one that got away

(41:47):
and hoped her story would enlighten everyone to trust their instincts.
She said she was followed by a man stocked before
stocking laws were in place, which everyone think back that
there was not stocking laws in place for so long,
for so long. Even now they're light in a lot
of places, right. And he captures her manages to get

(42:09):
away with her mom, and they report the police. There
was nothing they could do because he hadn't committed a crime.
Oh so he was aggressively stalking her, he kidnaped her,
but I don't know if he kidnapped her. Oh he
didn't kid Oh oh sorry, No, I'm sorry. No, I'm
the one.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
No I am.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
In the end, she wrote, it's human nature to assume
that things like this happened to someone else somewhere else.
I'm here to say that it can happen to you,
and it can happen here. I grew up in a
small town called Fenton, Michigan, and the man that chased
me was Leslie Alan Williams. Are you willing to go
on assuming that this can't happen to you?

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Wow? Yeah? Oh so?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
So he chased her and then her mom showed up
and she got away.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, in chase, but he had been aggressively stalking her
before that.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
And the cops were like, well, he didn't commit a crime.
He didn't. Once he stabs you, let us know and
then we'll give him two years in prison.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Well that and yeah, that's why those the people that
got those stocking laws. I mean there's like TV movies
about it where it's just like it's gone on for
so long and it's basically, well, we can't do anything.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I'm terrified of. Have you ever been stocked?

Speaker 2 (43:19):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:21):
I had to creep creep once, but it wasn't like
aggressive stocking. It's just like a place I worked at
that this person would like show up a lot. This
is why again, Like, why isn't attempted murder tried more harshly?
They attempted to murder someone, they didn't do it, So
you're only going to give them a quarter of the
time they would have gotten.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
We can't keep talking about this. Yes we can, and
we can change things. Then we will change the law.
But the law you want to change is you want
attempted murder be changed into murder.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
No, I want it to be fucking I want it
to be harsher sentences.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yes, well, but all around. I mean, I agree with
you in that way. And we are reading stories from
sometimes that are from like twenty thirty years ago, where it.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Almost just is a culture.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
It's a cultural attitude where it's like that's fine, or
they'll go to jail, it'll change, and there is that
thing of like, yes, rape is a you know, there
was a there was a man who I think that
this was a story that was tweeted. He it was
a pedophile. He was arrested and given five hundred and
twenty two years in jail. So it's like, I think

(44:27):
we are catching up to this idea that we want
to ensure that these people don't hurt people anymore. But
the idea that it was set up so that this
man was harsher on himself than the paroles him. He
was saying, please lock me up, please take this seriously.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I mean, that's crazy, yeah, fucked up, and that Vince
knew one of the fucking oh the idea that that
guy got shipped for basically being a victim.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
It wasn't even like people suspected him, you know what
I mean, Like, you know how that happens like, oh,
we think it was the boyfriend. It wasn't even like
it was worse than that because you could never be
proven otherwise, Like it's not like they caught the killer.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It wasn't me.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
And everyone is like sorry, it's like no, you fucking
suck because you didn't do anything.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
You didn't do anything, and it's like you don't know
what the situation is like well, and also if your
life is being threatened, like it's you can't do anything,
that's just people really mismanaging their own anxiety and being
like I'll blame you. This is the easiest thing to do.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Like this wouldn't have happened to me because of this
other thing, right, and.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Which is exactly it's like, yeah, you're trying to make
yourself feel better by going If I was in that situation,
I would have been able to take care of it.
Therefore you are at fault when it's like I don't
think so, Nah, that's and what an awful thing to
do to another person.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, not it? Nah? Hey did you get your haircut?
I cut my hair over my sink tonight and I'm
really cute, does it? Yeah? I'm sorry because I was
thinking about that part of the time. Thank you. But
it's a really good shape.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
It's not like a mom bob though, is it not?
At the least, it's actually super twenties. That's why I
was very distracted.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
But because I keep thinking I look like I would
like be a mom in a minivan commercial.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
You know what I mean? No, it has really good angles. Okay,
thank you. I cut it myself. I went to three
months of beauty school.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
This is the way that we I offset my anxiety
about hearing about terrible things.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Yeah, I want everyone to know that, like, we are
not terrible people. We're just this is like us lightning
a load of fucking pressing anxiety.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
If you think we're terrible because we talk about hair,
f f it stuff, then you can listen or you can't.
What was it a listener? Don't right? No, we can't listen.
You could listen.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Listen, you can't. Nobody cares. It's not it's not. No,
we have to take that part out.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
No we don't. We're all friends here, we're all friends.
We're all best friends.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Now that it's my time, Okay to shine God, Baren,
this is not gonna be good.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
I love it. I made this mistake. Here's I'll walk
you through my mistake please.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
I started going into very deeply researching a woman named
Mary Margaret Ray and she was David letterman stalker for
years in the eighties. And it is a story that
has fascinated me forever because she uh she was obsessed

(47:40):
with David Letterman. She would break into his house, she
would steal his car. She would get pulled over speeding
in his car and tell the cops that she was
missus David Letterman and let they would let her go.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
How did she get in their house? This was back
when they were again.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
This is the time where like he, I'm sure he
locked the front door or whatever, and then she would
be like, I need to get into that house and
make it happen. She would leave presents for him inside
the house. One time he was in bed with his
girlfriend watching TV and they looked up and she was
standing in the hallway.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
My god. Yes, And but here's the mistake that they made.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Because nobody knew anything about stalking and all the psychology
of it. He would talk about it on the TV show.
So she got all this attention and she was like
positive reinforcement. Well, and the thing that she had. She
had a schizophrenia, and it's a very sad story. Of course,
once I started looking at it, it's an incredibly sad
story because she had it and so did two of

(48:39):
her brothers and so did her father.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
So it's just no chance.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
I mean, that's it's so rough, and it's the classic
thing of she would start taking her medication get better
and think she didn't need medications anymore.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
That's everyone. Yeah, even that's who everybody does that even
if she.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Wasn't schizophrenic, she still was fucked, you know by that many.
I mean not that everyone is, but like you're gonna
have some fucking issues.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Well, because schizophrenia they believe is very genetic, right, and
so yeah, it's it's it's very difficult.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And in that family, it's like that. I mean, that's
just such a sad story.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Honey, I mean, I oh, honey, but like what you know, Yeah,
it's just an interesting thing that you have to look
at everyone's life like everyone's kind of a victim and
a fucking yes.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Well, and like it's easy for we. It's the thing
I love the most about this podcast. We just get
to say our opinion. We're not obviously not experts.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Obviously. Oh wait, you're not an expert. Well, I mean
I do.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
I do know how to cut and paste from Wikipedia,
So yes, I am an expert in that way. But yes,
everybody has there's backstory and context to everything, you know.
But anyway, the thing was he would talk about it
like there was a bit. He would call his house
and then go oh good, no one's home and hang
it like there. It was like he would do things

(49:59):
like that on the show. But she not only had schizophrenia,
but she had a thing called erotomania, which is a
delusional disorder where you believe that another person is in
love with you, and usually it's applied to someone with
higher status or it's someone famous.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
No, I have that with Vince. Yeah, no, I got it.
That guy, Elvis and Vince, he they totally love you
so much. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
So, But the problem is that in the delusion, they
think that, uh, the secret admirer is declaring their affection
through special glances, signals, telepathy, or messages through the media
like on your fucking talk show. So then he's actually
doing it.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Didn't anyone tell him?

Speaker 2 (50:48):
They No one knew. They didn't know how to like
that how to handle this situation.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
That's the man thing to do in my mind.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
But it's also just an uneducated like at the time
people were like, toms are funny, you know, it just
really likes you. Yes, stalkers are like you so nice,
don't friend zone him?

Speaker 1 (51:07):
What did you What did you do to make him
stalk you? Kinda thing?

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Exactly why are you wearing short skirts if you don't
want a stalker? Yeah? And the thing that when I
found out this part because I was insanely obsessed with
Letterman when I was growing up. I used to go
to bed and this when I was like twelve and thirteen,
and I would get back up at twelve thirty and
go pull the chair really close to the TV and

(51:33):
watch Letterman from twelve thirty to one thirty every night.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
So you were kind of the stalker too.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
I also want but I just what was happening on
that TV was like, there's this other world out there
that I can't believe exists that I want to be
a part of so bad where it's like Chris Elliot
popping up as the man underneath the stairs type of
stuff where you're like, none of this entertainment is on
my normal daytime TV.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
I love it, so it was very exciting.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
So I kind of like was like, yeah, I get
why she's she wants to go to a hoiuse and
drive his car.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
So she's married to him.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
He's the only it's the only talk show I could
ever fucking stand.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, because he wasn't doing normal talkshow things totally, and
he was so insanely rude.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
So it devolved.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
She actually eventually kind of went off him and started
stalking him an X astronaut. But it was just all
step down, yes, exactly. I bet David Lettermon was like what, Yeah,
he's like bitch. Eventually though, and this is the worst part,
because she knew her life was that it was. She

(52:37):
was just out of control. She killed herself by kneeling
in front of a train. No, And when I heard
that the first time, I was just like, it's so awful.
It's so like, it's so insanely sacrificial, it's so symbolic

(52:58):
or something. And she wrote her other letters saying she
was going to do it, saying I want to die
in the valley that I love, and she did it
some I can't remember it somewhere in like in somewhere
in Montana. I think her some It's just such a
dramatic story. Anyway, I did all this work and research
and then by the end realized, well, that's non a murderer.
That's a very sad story of extreme mental illness and suicide.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
And then I was like, oh, so then I had
to start over.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Oh wait, so you're starting now, So now I'm starting,
but this will be fast.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
You're like, I, so now you're starting. Oh so you're
gonna do too murder. This is the thing.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
And I just I guess I wanted to say all
that because that's what I'm interested in, and that was
a fascination that I had. A person that is a
female stalker is a fascinating concept.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Okay, that almost never happened.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
I like that we can do this because sometimes they'll
find these crazy stories and be like, but there's no murder,
but like, fuck, it's fucked.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Up, right, I think we should talk about those the
fucking title of the book. Yeah, let's change this whole concept.
We really painted ourselves into a corner. Let's Stephen erase
what we've done so fast race the past forty five episodes.
So this is what I did, and this will just
be the fastie because this is actually super fast, so
it's equally fascinating.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
But it's almost like it shorverted. It's a shorty okay, and.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
It's the story of the insane serial killer Israel Keys.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
He's the guy. He's did you ever see.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
That that movie The Minus Man starring uh what his name, oh,
Owen Wilson, And it's basically a guy that just kind
of goes around, really nice, chill guy traveling from town
to town, killing people randomly and leaving.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
This that's basically so Israel Keys. They don't know that
much about him, and he killed people from uh two
thousand and one to twenty twelve, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (55:05):
And he.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Went literally he worked as a contractor in Alaska and
he would take that money and then he also would
rob banks and he would take all that money and
he would buy plane tickets so that he could go
and to random cities, rent cars and go murder somebody.
They wouldn't be connected, nothing would be connected, and then

(55:29):
they would just go to a different city. Fuck. It's
so fucking crazy. And so it's almost like it doesn't
even scare me because it's beyond like it's just beyond
It's almost like he was.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
He has a look like you can see his.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Mugshot online, and he looks like a dude that would
be in like a north Face catalog. Like he's he's
young and kind of cute, and he looks very like sporty.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Like a little weather worn, but like in a hot,
fuck y, rugged way.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Yes, Like he looks like a guy that would be
on a hiking trail, like.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
One of the ages of The Sexiest Man Alive and
the do Seki's commercials.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
He's like thirty something. Am I getting this right? Yes?

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Okay, so the Sexiest Man Alive is into camping.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
This is this guy. Oh also and murder.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
So so he and he would do that. He would
go to remote places, so he would go to hiking trails.
He would go to like national fucking parks and it's
the national park.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
This is the national park guy.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
So he would go into these places and then just
like just steal one person easy, yes easy, and take them, torture, rate,
murder whatever, bury their bodies somewhere and then just move on.
And he would pre planet. So he had Okay, so

(56:55):
I'll just read you what I have. So uh, and
I got a lot of this from this awesome it's
just an FBI press release where they just said here's
everything we know.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
If you know anything, please call us.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
So they're so because when they finally arrested him, he
got arrested, They arrested him, they got him to talk
a little bit, and then he committed suicide and checking dick.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
So they knew.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
They know for a fact that he killed eleven people
for sure, they can like patch it all back. It's
never that, it's so many more because the amount of
planning that went into these things is super crazy. Because
he would bury cases all around the country, so they
were basically like, kill kids with money in them what so,

(57:44):
so he could go there and be like here's my
kill kid, yep, but he wouldn't be traveling with it.
So if the cop pulled him over and he had
a rental car and he was in Arizona, the cop
would be like, oh, it's a dude in a rental car.
You're speeding, knock it off. At no time they're like
what's that duffel bag?

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Or I mean, if you're gonna be that fucking like,
what's the word?

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Organized and dedicated, dedicated, like just be a fucking coder
or something like get a job.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
An I know why you why do you have to
dedicate that? Don't be a dick. I gotta be bad.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
He's gotta be bad, this guy said, apparently when he
got out of the army, so he was like he
got kicked out of the house when he was seventeen
and his parents, who used to be Amish and then
joined some weird they One of the articles said it
was like a cultish church in Wells, Texas, like.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
The Amish like similar to the Amish could.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah, but they like build nice things and they like,
you know, they have that have you ever seen that areas?
That space heater that they make. It's really nice. Come on. Well, anyway,
he got kicked out of the house and his parents
told his siblings you're not allowed to talk to him anymore,
which I want to know what the hell happened.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
But the last said everyone like everyone. He was just
like super ruded Thanksgiving one of the two.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
But so he told the FBI that he had buried
some of those cases. So sorry, I was gonna say.
He went into the army for a while. He got
uh dismember from the Army dish honorated charge discharge us right,
and no, he just regularly discharged.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
But he told people that he was.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
In the army with I can't wait to get out
of the army so I can kill a bunch of people. Cool,
super chill, super like, Oh do you want to go
get a beer later?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Okay, now that's cool because you want to go kill people.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
So, oh that Israel always joking around, You.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Know that guy Israel.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
So he uh so, apparently he has these cashes buried
in and the FBI actually went and found there was
one in Eagle River, Alaska, and there was one near
Blake Falls Reservoir in New York. And then they also, oh,
he admitted to bearing them in Green River, Wyoming.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
And this is why I have a metal detector.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Right and Port Angela's Washington, okay, and he's doing tours
there almost find a cash that'd actually be like a
new geocaching, but you're actually trying to find Israel keys
caches with CZO cashing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
He didn't know any of his victims prior to their abductions.
He described several remote locations that he frequented to look
for them, parks, campgrounds, trail heads, cemeteries, boating areas, and
he frequented prostitutes during his travels sex workers, sorry, sex workers.
And it is unknown at this time if he met

(01:00:58):
any of his victims in this man of course, because
they don't really know who the victims are. Jesus and
he indicated to the FBI that his victims are male
and female and rage from teens too elderly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
See when they get.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
That fucking non specific, they're fucking out of there, like that's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Crazier, right, He wants to kill everybody. He just wants
to kill people. He just wants to kill everybody. Okay,
so his murders occurred in less than ten states, but
he didn't tell them all the locations.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
So basically the he just was doing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
He was kidnapping people in one state and taking them
across state lines intentionally to kill them in a different state,
because then.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
They wouldn't be missing people. They wouldn't be connected to
the missing that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
So they find a body in Kansas and they don't
know anything because the person is missing from whatever state
is next to Kansas.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
How would I know? I only have like a seventh
grade education.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
We are the best podcasters that I've ever podcasted for real.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Also, it says here he would kidnap them in one state,
murder them in a second state, dispose of their body
in a thought state. Why that middleman, because he just
wants to keep it clean, because he wants to be
able to keep doing it no matter what, which he
did four years and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
How oh no, keep going. Sorry, so not trying to
lead you alone.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Uh. He also burglarized twenty to thirty homes and he
committed arson to cover up the homicides. So it's just everything.
He's just throwing it all. It's a it's a it's
a castle roll of bad things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Okay. He starts in nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
His first victim was a girl who was intertubing down
the Deshoots River in Oregon. And uh, Stevens, Stevens Stephen
knows where that is in Bend right now? Oh so
that's on is that on the Yeah, it's a girl
between fourteen and eighteen years old who was tubing. He

(01:03:05):
takes her off of her inner tube, pulls her into
the woods, sexually assaults her, puts her back on the
inner tube, puts her on, and she never reported it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
So the only reason they even know this happened is
because he told them to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
You think you know what you know, one of the
safest places I would think are on the an inner tube,
in the middle of a fucking leg with your friends,
with your friends, and he oh, why, oh god.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Oh, there's the word discharged. In two thousand and one,
he was discharged from the US Army. Then from two
thousand and one July to October, he resided in Nia Bay, Washington,
and there he committed his first homicide. But they don't
know who or where he killed. He just said that's
where he did it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
From two thousand and one to two thousand and five,
he murdered. This is all him telling the FBI he
murdered an unidentified couple in Washington. He refused to tell
them if the couple was married, what their relationship to
one another was. So it's actually not a couple, it's
just two people. He's so samp and they don't know
if they were residents of Washington's tourists or residents he

(01:04:16):
abducted from another state and brought over.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
It's like worse for me when they're unidentified, because it's
just like you just know that there are so many
people suffering, suffering and wondering and waiting and that don't
have answers. Yeah, I mean it's devastating when you do,
but at least you're able to at least you know it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Like it's you're dealing with facts, yeah, and instead of
any possible thing. So it's like he really did want
as many people to suffer as possible awful two thousand
and five to two thousand and six, in the summer
to fall months, he admitted he committed two murders independent
of one another. He used his boat to dispose of
the bodies of these victims, and he stated that at

(01:04:56):
least one of the bodies was disposed of in Crescent
Lake and Washington, where he used anchors to submerge the
body and he he said it was submerged in more
than one hundred feet of water, and that he moved
their cars a distance between where the vehicles were found
and where the crime occurred. And he didn't say who

(01:05:19):
the people were. So basically, when the it sounds like
when the FBI's interviewing him, he's just kind of giving
them the very most basic thing that might even not
be true, right, and that now you go run and
try to figure this out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Good luck with that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
So then he drives from Washington State to Anchorage, Alaska,
where he lives until his arrest. So from two thousand
and seven till twenty twelve, how do you get arrested?
It's at the bottom of this list. Look, I'm gonna
be honest, it's at the bottoms list. He go on, Uh, oh,

(01:05:56):
I know what it is. It's he murdered an old
couple in Vermont and it got a bunch of press
and it was one another one of his super random things.
Oh no, I'm sorry that that got They were like
in the press a bunch. But then he stole the
ATM card of one of his victims. And then when
he went to his sister's wedding in Wills, Texas, he

(01:06:17):
started using the ATM and they they got onto this
stolen ATM cards being used and they.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Got him there. What a fucking rookie move.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
But it also sounds like after this much time, like
eleven years of just constant random catch me or he's like,
I can't do this anymore. There might have been a
part of him that's just like I don't want to
do this. Yeah, because even even something great and fun,
after twelve years, you're like, I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Don't know, you know what I mean, Yeah, that's gonna worn.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
So then it just basically the rest of this fucking
thing is a list of cities and like very vague
crimes and people that they can't And when I was
reading it, and it goes on and on, and there's
a there's a Reddit thread that the person is like
updated on this date in green, updated on this date

(01:07:14):
in purple. So they just keep on finding details and
they it literally is he bought a Southwest ticket from
anchored j Alaska to San Diego. He walked on foot
into Tijuana. He was there for two days, walked on footback,
took a Southwest flight to Tempe, Arizona. And it's this

(01:07:35):
stuff where you're.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
So he has this pattern, like with the entertabing girl,
of just grabbing them and dragging him to the woods,
not like, oh, you know the person who disappeared, we
saw her talking to a you know, shaggy haired dude
in a bar. It's not like she's like he's taking
them home, right, Like you know, pretending to have relationship
with them. He's fucking dragging like there's no there's no connection.

(01:07:57):
You're right, they never saw this person before.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
They don't. They probably never saw him coming.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Like it's a place where people wouldn't be, like if
it's a trailhead snatched.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
And then he's there and gone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Ye. Also in the list, as I'm reading it, he
was in Santa Rosa, which is the town above Pedaloma.
There's a whole part where he's in Napa Valley. He's
all he went on like a hole wine tour up
in northern California, and the whole thing is like that
where I just I started thinking about that where I
got super scared. I saw he flew into the Oakland Airport,

(01:08:32):
he rented a car, he drove up to Napa. Then
he stayed for like one night in one of those
whiny hotels. Then he drove to Santa Rosa where and
I'm looking at the years, like, my god, what year?

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
And was there anybody missing and doing?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
And but then as I read the rest of the list,
it's like, and you could do that with every location
across America.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
But I wonder if he did no, no, he did
but why can't we find them, find the people that
because they don't even know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
It's like there's the missing person's for say tenth year
Zona in two thousand and seven. He did it all. Well,
they don't know. He could have done one. He could
have done them all. He could have just gone there,
drank wine and nap and left. He's that like, and
whatever he was doing, he had his cash thing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, he never.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Nobody ever saw him. He didn't go somewhere to buy
a knife. Yeah, oh god, Yeah, he had money. If
something happened and they were like, you know, he ran
out of money, he would have a cash nearby where
there was like Bill's waiting buried underground.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
He's the fucking best boy scout in the world who's
also a fucking dick.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
If a boy scout went fucking nuts, just like had
to rub that stick to try to make that fire
and just snapped and was like, you know what, I'm
going to be the devil walking on earth? Yeah, for
eleven years. Yeah, And it's just it's so random that
That's the other thing. I realized that this sucks because

(01:10:03):
there's no specific storyline or even like any anybody, because
it's all just like and then he probably killed one
random place, like he's the one that there was.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
I don't know if you ever heard about that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
There were the two kids that were spending the night
on the beach in San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
They just got shot and I almost did on one.
But it's just such a weird They think it's him,
totally was him. They think it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
They do think that it's him, because it's the kind
of thing where when when that murder connection, it makes
no fucking sense. There's nothing left behind their Christian camp
kids who are who are like trying to just have
a camp out one night on the beach for fun,
and they both get shot in the head, execution style.
But there's no way they have anything attached to, like

(01:10:48):
a drug dealer or there's no reason. And he is
the He's the guy that's the no reason murderer.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
Because that doesn't make any like there should be a
pattern to killers, you know exactly, and if you don't
have one, then you're probably less likely to get caught, right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Fuck, it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
It's so crazy, And also it goes on and on,
and then at the end of this thing, there's a
whole chunk called additional additional murders, and so it's like
he would he gave additional details regarding the abduction and
the murder of a female described as having pale skin,
possibly having a wealthy grandmother driving an older car. That's you,

(01:11:30):
Oh my god, it's that there's just a bunch of
I wish.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
What a controlling shit thing to do? And then you're like,
you know how I'm going to get out of this
kill myself?

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Yeah, because I'm sure that the interviewers were like, Okay,
we're starting to we're starting this up.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
We're asking him these questions.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
We're going to bring on Billy Bob. He's fucking cory
to getting shit out of people, like you know, like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
We're going to do this, and we're going to start
really putting some of the stuff together. And with the
information he's giving them, he's saying, I can I can
tell you everywhere I was, I can give you all
these details and then but.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Bye, goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
I'm not actually going like what a what a controlling
insane So if you it to me, this is like
built for web slutes, It's so totally it's so perfect.
But I mean it just goes on and on but
if you go on there and you see if you
know of a missing person or some kind of murder case,

(01:12:28):
it's a really good comparison, I guess chart. Because you
have the years and you do have vague descriptions, you
can they say, if you have information, you can call
the FBI at one eight hundred, call fbon.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
No it isn't Yeah, that's not enough. One. That's not enough.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
C A L that's three L FBON that's four. Fuck,
they're not going to give you not enough numbers? But
what is wrong with my brain that I that call?
It was like, that's three letters.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
But you're the one that's gonna figure that out. You're like,
you know what, the FBI is fucking us over right now?
That doesn't lead anywhere. It's not enough another mystery.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Oh my god, what a fucking idiot, Like I, what
is wrong with you know what? This natural path is
gonna hear me because clearly I got some issues.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Uh So that's I feel like the Israel Keys case
is one where basically what I'm saying is go look
up the name Israel Keys because it'll freak your shit out. Yeah,
but there's not I'm sure there's plenty more to say,
and we'll hear about all of it, But that's as
much as I mean, like, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
You do certain things like as someone who's very aware
of that murders happen, and you know, I do certain
things like when I use my credit card at a
fucking what.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Are they called a meter? Yeah, parking meter.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
I'm like, here's a this is another trace as to
where I was that day in case something happens, you know,
or like I go into a liquor store and the
cameras here, it'll show me going to the liquor store
that day. But if like if that's not if you
can't track someone else having followed you, or like between
this parking meter and something else, like if there's just
snatch and fucking grab.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Well, yeah, because he's not gonna grab you at a
parking meter or in a liquor store. Now she's gonna
he's going to grab the person that decided to go
on a nice nature walk by themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Don't do it, you guys, Why would you do that,
not even by yourself with someone else, even which you
think you're safe. Go impacts of five with knives with
fucking rottweilers with knives taped your hands and knives tape
your rottweilers, and then.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Just tons of guns and just start shooting at any
sound you hear.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
Anyone who fucking approaches you, shoot them, shoot them.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Disclaimer, we're fucking joking. You can't sue us. Yes, we're joking.
We're not liable.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Uh so that's my super unsatisfying actual murderers case of
Israel keys. That's good. Okay, thanks, I did too. Sorry
the one night You're like, can I get off here early?
And I'm like, you know what I'm gonna do? Give
you two What a dick?

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
No, we're good on time? Oh good checking the time.
I mean we're not. But this is more important to me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
I'm sorry. Public school at the Virgil that this is
more important.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
What a great show. Please go to play school at
the Virgil once a month. Public school at the Virgil.
It's not as important as my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Oh my god, No, I'm kidding. It's such a good ship.
That's a joke. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Should we each say one thing that we like or
that makes us happy, one thing that made us happy
in the past week. Yeah, okay, Oh do you want
me to go first, because I have one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Oh, you do have one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
It is I've been listening to You Must Remember This,
the podcast by Karina Longworth, and I'm so obsessed with it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
I started.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Somebody recommended to me the Manson series because she goes
for good. It's Manson's Hollywood. I think it's called and
it's like a six part series. But she, I mean,
talk about research, talk about talk about a person who
cares all her opposite. I mean, if you hate us,
this is a podcast for you. You haven't made it
to the end, but it is. She's your spite listening

(01:16:17):
right now. Yeah, and congratulations because here's the payoff. It's
such it's it's the kind of thing where I didn't
think I was that interested in old time Hollywood, and
it is fascinating. It's gossipy, it's kind of dirty. There's
all these things where you're like, I had no idea
that happened. It's just and it's beautifully done, and so yeah,

(01:16:38):
I highly recommend that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
That's like great. I was going to say, no, you
know what I'm going to say. So I found a
new author that it's like a true crime No, no, no,
it's a fiction fictional author. I'm listening to her audiobooks
and it's like crime and it's fucked up and it's
fucking like a British procedural. So I don't know why
I wasn't didn't know that I was into this, so
I'm just fighting it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Yeah, but like listening to it on an audiobook.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
So it's called Blacklands, the one I'm listening to right
now by Belinda Bauer b a U e R.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
It's fucked like this is she's it's you know what I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Saying, Yeah, Kius, it's not Yeah, it's totally absolutely, I
mean it is, but it's not yeah, and it's not
trying to be no, it just is.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Yeah. Yeah, it's good. Well that's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
Uh, what do we wanna my favorite murder at Instagram,
my favorite murder at twiter.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
We have a is our website, our brand new website up.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Our website is up, and I should have a show's
page that has all our shows on it so you'll
be able to.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Track it there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Yeah, all that information we tried to give you the
be or we did give you at the beginning, you
can have in like a way to reference.

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
The website is called, and I'm trying to think of
something like super like really dumb and funny that it
would be, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
It's just my favorite murder.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
Oh you mean like, oh the funck word murder mystery show.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
Oh yeah, that would be cool.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Sorry, Oh, there's too much talking dot org something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Skippers, skippers, skippers unite you guys, thanks for uniting with
us and listening. We fucking you guys are the ones.
You guys are the ones. You're the one for me
and the people who are for us, and like we truly, truly, truly,

(01:18:24):
truly truly thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
No, stay sexy, even don't get murdered. Elvis, you want
a cookie? Good boy? Bye bye. He did that right
on key waiting he's been waiting, Yeah, he had.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Him fucking tearing up, Like is him saying, what the
fuck where's the cookie? Yeah, he doesn't do that because
his fence always gives him cookies