477 - The Greatest Depression

On today’s episode, Karen covers Linda Riss and Burt Pugach and Georgia tells the story of the Great Emu War.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Say hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's Georgia Hardstar.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
That's Karen Kilkara.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
We're dressed for Easter.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I keep accidentally doing that, like dressing for holidays, for
Easter specifically. Oh, I just think I have a lot
of pastels in my wardrobe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I feel like Easter was a huge holiday in nineteen
sixty two.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, what did you guys do?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
First of all, fuck you, I was born in nineteen seventy.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
That's not what I meant. Wow, that would have been
so shitty.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I was like, really, what'd you guys do back there?
You were married people, astronaut what you used to like
to do for fun on Easter?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
It was a bigger deal. I think it still is though.
I went to the park near my house and there
were like three different amps, like doing all the Easter
cookout thing right and hiding things.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I mean, separate from it being a religious holiday, I
do think it is the most fun, second only to
Halloween or Christmas yau, but like it's like a mid
spring fun thing for kids that I remember looking forward
to it just because it'd been like what do we
go On's the next thing? Where we get to like
have a kid time totally.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, that must have been nice for you Christians.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh yes, God, we christ did around all and died eggs,
but we did It made me laugh because so the
hospitals are the family that we grew up next door to,
who we spend every holiday with and did, like I
have pictures of my uncle Steve with a cigarette and
his hand pointing to where the eggs are hidden, because
I'm like three years old and the youngest. So we

(01:48):
always did Easter together and we would go and die
eggs a little like the night before in the barn
blah blah blah. And my cousin's TV did that with
his daughters and Nora and whatever. But of course everyone's
ignore is a senior. His daughters are out of the house.
So my sister calls because they weren't going to do

(02:08):
Easter because it was just a bunch of adults, and
like sin, Steve called my sister brengoes, we have to
do Easter and she's like yeah, okay. He's like, We're
not just gonna not do it, just we have to
keep doing it. She's like, okay, can do it.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
It's like getting through it.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's like since nineteen seventy two, right, so sixty three,
our families have gotten together and somehow been like, yes,
today is the day. Here's some eggs, kids whatever, because chocolate.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Same with Passover, which involves hiding something for the kids
to find an egg, same thing. It's like so clearly yeah,
these things. But the difference is and the reason we're
not as excited about Passover is the hours. It feels
like a storytelling and like prayers and shit. Before you
pray over the wine, you pray over, the list, you
pray over. Then it's like can we fucking eat?

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Like everyone hates it, But then the youngest some lines.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yes, the youngest gets some line, and that's the.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Day I was turned on too Judaism as a religion
and a lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
As the youngest. For a long time, it was pretty
fucking that's where I shine. That must be why I'm
so good at this.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
It probably is I'm a performer.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I'm a natural.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
And did you know your lines or did you have
to read them out of a book?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
I read them because it looked very like studious. Yes,
that's very special and Jewish.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
And you're like, these are all the things that I.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Will believe me. This was about me special.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
That is a really weird parallel though I never thought
about that. The Passover is on Jewish Easter essentially, or Easters.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
No, because Christian Passover came first.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
That's right, and full of respect to you and yours,
thanks for the idea.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Ours has a lot less bloodshed more candy.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
It was the one son as opposed to any.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Right, all the sense. Well, I'm wearing this because I
think it's I unconsciously put it on because I'm listening
to Miranda Julized new book. It's called All Fours. Oh
so I just cosplayed as her today completely on an accident.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Okay, so here we are.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Do you like that book? Yeah? I love the book.
She's an incredible writer. But it's one of those things
where it's like this is definitely going to get you depressed.
It's like, are you ready to get in that headspace
right now? And I don't know what the answer is, but.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
You're gonna find out. I will find out midway.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, so that's what I'm doing. Have you heard? I
can't believe we haven't talked about this about Valerie the docks, and.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I thought you were going to talk about the corrections
corner that we have. No I have not heard about
Valerie the docks.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Before we get to the bad stuff, Let's just talk
about the good stuff, which is kind of it's good
and bad. Valerie the docks and went with her family
on a trip in South Australia to Kangaroo Island. They
did some camping. Okay, Valerie got loose and it's been
like sixteen weeks and she keeps getting spotted owning this
fucking island somehow surviving. She won't come to anyone, but

(04:57):
she's like taking over the island and writing.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
And and basically doesn't want to be found.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
I don't know, it won't come to anyone, and her
owners are devastated. But it's this kind of thing of
like shit, man, she's fucking she's like living free, living
the island life. I mean, it's like pretty impressive. She's
just this like, you know, sporty little lowrider who's just
fucking tearing across.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Is she like hanging out with kangaroos or is that
just the name.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
I don't know. I don't know who she's hanging out with.
I don't know what she's eating or how she's surviving.
I don't know where she's sleeping, but she doesn't look emaciated.
She looks like there's something going on, or she's like
made a pact with the other animals there and they're
like they've taken her in.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
You're gonna help me. I'll be the personality higher.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's me.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's me, the doctrine, Valerie. I'll definitely make your party
more fun. I can't help you hr or clean. That is.
I immediately pictured her for some reason standing on the edge
of a cliff Elizabeth in Pride and Prejudice exactly. She's
just like, finally, it's the life I wanted.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Domain my kingdom. I don't know. She's like a hero
for our ages like get the fuck run away and
fucking go live on an island.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Do what you want, Valerie. And to all the Valerie
the docsin is out there that are listening right now, girl,
find your kangaroo island, your kangaroo island, whatever it is,
and run around on it and live. Don't come back
for any call or text.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Not at all. It's so like Cookie, you go tweet
tweet and she'd be out your fucking feet in two seconds.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, maybe maybe that just reminded me. This morning, Blossom
was barking like a lunatic, which I'm like, is this
your new thing? In the morning, I raked over. There
was a puppy coyote trying to come up onto the patio,
and I ran over to make sure. And there were
four other.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Ones, like grown ones or puppies, puppies but like and
you the maker.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Then Blossom, oh my god, and there to make friends
so they can eat her later. Anyway, the coyote drama
will not end in my backyard.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Oh my god, that's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
It was like a little pack and it did look
like cute stray dogs. And then I was like, visa,
do visa the dogs?

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, it takes like four of them right now, but
in the future it will just take one. You know,
I've never seen bride and prejudice. I know, I know,
I know. There's so many people I.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Don't want to fight. I don't want to fight.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's not there was no like decision made. Really, not
that kind of girl, and so it never came up.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
A girl with a heart and a brain.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
And sense and sensibility, you see, you truly will love it.
I know I will, like I don't know it's taking
me so long.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, and also Matthew McFadden. Yeah, everyone's favorite part of Succession.
Oh yeah is the romantic lead.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
I just heard a whole thing about his hand twitch
and I'm like, why I have to see this? I
have to see it. Here's what I'll say.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
First of all, I literally just watched it yesterday.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Okay, it is cinematically one of the more satisfying movies
that's ever been made. It's not just like, it's not
just a Janaus kind of type of thingru Okay, there's
so much incredible acting. So many of the best of
the best British actors are in the movie. Brenda Blethlin

(08:08):
as the irritating mother will free your soul. You will
love her so much.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
I guess it's just like I know i'd be a
peasant back then, So why do I want to watch
fucking rich people trapesing around for real? Calling in love?
I know I'd be a peasant, or i'd be a
scullery maid, or i'd be you know, something something dirty,
something shitty, something with like my fingernails were always gross.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
And like you have a lot of like liver paste
under your fingernails.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
And like so many children for some reason. Yeah, so
like why I don't I don't know, like right, not today,
I don't. But you got that absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, you would have been required to definitely give it.
You know what, just put it fifteen minutes on your
timer and then start it and see where you Okay.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
I know all of it. I know that. Okay. Yeah,
no one get mad at me, please.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
No, no. But there's a bit of the warning of like, oh,
this is somehow historical or it's going to be dry
in some way.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yes, it's not, okay, Okay, I mean the only reason
I watched Bridgerton and I liked it was because you
told me there was something really dirty. It was like,
I gotta check this out? Should I? So tell me
there's something in sense and sensibility. There's like a like
a Skinamax scene.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Okay, but it's pride and prejudice first off, that's what
I meant, skins and skinsibility. It's a yeah, there's a
really intense fingering scene through it three quarters the way
is that what you want to hear? But it's really
like locked eyes. It's insane.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Doctor Shockers comes around and just blows everything out of
the water in this tiny town and then it goes
back to norld.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
It's very it's very strength.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Pop it. Let's do this podcast.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Let's do a correction corner, and then knowing full well
that we're gonna have to do another corrections corner for
what I just said about Jane Austin book. This one
makes me laugh really hard because I think our audience
now knows us so well that they're like.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
I know what you meant.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Of course, of course you don't know this, but I
will be nice and tell you.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
I love that, Like, I think what you meant was
like trying to like we can't think of a word,
and they know what we're trying to say.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Also, truly, and I don't know how many times I
have to say this when I just say stuff, I
that is what I'm doing. There's in no way did
I think that as you were retelling me the Amistad Trial,
that when you were like John Adams blah blah blah,
that I would that my response was going to be
historically accurate from an educated mind, any of those things.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
No, no memory. Well, so, in the story from last
week the Amistad Trial, which is episode four, seventy six.
I explained that President Van Buren appeals the decision for
the amistad party to return home, and then I say
that the abolitionist ask former president and current Massachusetts Congressman
John Quincy Adams, you know him, I say, to represent

(10:48):
the group in court.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
My response is, of course, Paul Giamony.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Your response to everything. They don't always. We always cut
a lot of that out because otherwise this whole show
would be just talking that Paul Giamati.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
But but still.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Referring to his You were referring to his TV miniseries
John Adams. Yeah. Well, Stephanie, a listener emailed with the
corrections corner. John Quincy Adams is the son of John Adams.
It's actually a very common mistake. And then Elizabeth dot
Gray on Instagram also caught it, commenting, I'm so sorry,
but Paul Giamatti played John Adams. John Quincy was his son.

(11:24):
Played Bite the Hotty hot Hot Evan Moss Backgrack, who
has one of those like why he's so hot without
being hot? Looks like Walton Goggins, Yes, exactly, Why am
I so attracted to this person? Well?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I was gonna say because Evan Moss Backrock, who is
the brother from The.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Bear, of course and from Girls the fucking Incredible. His
character was incredible and a total piece of shit and
Girls are so good.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
But also he has a little bit of Vince in
his face. To me, when I first watched The Bear,
I was like, that guy looks like this.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
And he has Vinces like coloring to the blonde. Oh
my god, you're totally.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Right, like this soft eyes of like the eyes of
a person that's going, what are you doing, ma'am? Yeah
all the time?

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Who knows your actual like he knows what's behind what
you're doing. Yeah, and you can't trick him.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
No, yeah, no, it's real.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
And he's gonna use it. This guy though, he looks
like he's gonna use it against you in the future,
right Vince.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Won Vince is like, I'm gonna I'm going to help
you book a hotel with this information and I have about.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
This is how I know, like to do something really
nice for you. But this guy is like this guy,
I'm your drug dealer. Careful. So, uh, that's corrections corner.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Anyway, Did that help all your history students? We drove
that one right into the wall. Well, listen. Here's what's important.
We have a podcast network and there's a lot of
stuff going on there is.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
It's called exactly right media. Yeah, here's some highlights.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah. This week on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul head
to nineteen twenty four England for part one of they're
two part series about a young couple faced with an
unplanned pregnancy and a police force faced with an open
and shot murder case until a new discovery changes anything.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah. And then over on The Knife, our newest show
that we're so proud of, Hannah and Pasha bring you
the story of Jennifer Thompson, a college student who survived
her brutal assault. She did everything she could to help
identify her attacker, only to learn years later that the
wrong man had been convicted. You should be listening to
The Knife regularly. It's so freaking good.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
They're so great. Also, they just got featured on iTunes
in like The Knife as a podcast just got.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Featured, so dow it noteworthy. Yeah, go take a look.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
At that and you will see also very new, very
noteworthy podcast that we love so much as Ghosted by
ros Hernandez. This week, Roz is honestly stunned when iconic
actor and comedian Moe Collins, who I love the most, incredible,
the funniest, she shows up with a real life haunted
house story that has everything a poltergeist, a ghost, a portal,

(13:53):
and a very freaked out real estate agent.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
M Collins is incredible, so funny, a natural. Finally, and
I Said No Gifts to survivor contestant Zeke Smith disobeys
Bridger with a gift by bringing him a gift. Even
though the podcast is called I Said No Gifts, they
don't care and they just keep bringing him gifts. They
chat about processed cheese, airport renovations, and the universal truth
of dust.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Shit, what could it be? That's heavy? What's the universal truth?
It's just everywhere and it We're made of it. It's
like in our it's our skin pores. It's also stars.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Also, here's a special announcement for anybody listening who lives
in the Chicago area. Two of our podcasts are coming
to the Den Theater in Chicago. So first, the Banana
Boys are performing They're live on May eighth, and then
I Said No Gifts is taking the stage to record
a live episode on May twenty third, so go to
the den theater laugh. Then you can come home and

(14:45):
listen to your own laughter. A few days later on
I said, no gifts so fun, go.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
To the dentheater dot com. Those two shows are I
feel like all the shows on our network, but those
two specifically are so good. Live. Oh yes, like you
will have the best time. Go by yourself, bring a
first date. It'll like, it'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yes, both of those You're completely right. Both of those
shows as something to do one night, will deliver in
every way.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Absolutely Yeah, and exciting merch news. This week's episode of
Rewind was originally released right after the twenty sixteen election,
and we said then our infamous quote, this is terrible,
keep going, and so we're re releasing some of that
merch that Karen. If you're watching this on our YouTube
page exactly right, media, you'll see all this fucking incredible.

(15:28):
Oh my god, that t shirt's.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Great, right, I knew you would love that.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
We brought it back.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
We have made a gigantic tote bag that you can
root around in forever.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
You guys are tote people.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
These sweatpants, which I told the story the other day,
I wore my own merch out because these sweatpants are
so comfortable you don't want to take them off.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
I have the Vickio I married ones, and they're like
the softest thing, so soft.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
So soft and very cash that it's this is terrible.
Keep going is just kind of right up on your hip.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
I might take these pretty lucky.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
And then of course the mug, the mug the best mugiver.
And I love this color combination. Blue and light blue
are my stark blue. Light blue are my favorite combination.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Real nice, very good. So go to exactly right store
dot com and you can see all of it and
get whatever you feel like.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
That's right, And you know, with all the protests that
are basically happening every weekend, now, just remember that this
was a saying that you and I came up with.
One of us said this is terrible, the other one
said keep going. It's from our twenty sixteenth yeah, after
the election episode, and so we're relaunching it now for
these terrible times that we live in to just bring

(16:34):
people some sort of comfort.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
You know what I said, I said Sally Forth to
Vince today. Oh yeah, yeah, it's like, what are.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
We gonna do?

Speaker 3 (16:40):
What I'm I Sally Forth. Yeah, got to and it
felt real and right.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, you have to listen to gold Gym, The Home Gym,
Good old Home Jim.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
All right, you're first, that's right.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
So my story this week, And I remember when Maren
and I were talking about it as a story, because
this documentary about this story came out in two thousand
and seven and I saw it very soon after, and
it's the living proof of like it was a different time.
Even though it was only two thousand and seven, it
seems recent. But the story I'm about to tell you,

(17:17):
and the way it was kind of presented at the
time compared to how it probably would be presented now
is pretty crazy. There's a lot to be grateful for
in terms of where we are right now, even though
it's terrible and we have to keep going. Also, there's
some good stuff. So let's start at the beginning. It's
the morning of June fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine. It's right

(17:40):
before my first birthday, and twenty two year old Linda Riss,
who's a beautiful woman. A lot of people say she
looks like Elizabeth Taylor. She actually just kind of has
a little baby face and she's very kind of glamorous,
but I'm sure Liz Taylor was like the height of
beauty at the time, so they're just saying she was
just an attractive woman. So Linda's about to leave her

(18:01):
bronx apartment where she lives with her mother to head
into work in Manhattan, where she works as a receptionist.
But before she can do that, the doorbell rings. Linda's
mother asks who's there, and from the other side of
the door, a man calls out package for Miss Linda Riss.
So that's not weird. Linda's used to getting gifts, either
from her doting fiance Larry, or from friends and family

(18:25):
who are sending them gifts because Larry and Linda just
recently announced their engagement. In fact, their engagement party had
been the night before, so the idea of getting sent
something to the apartment wasn't weird. But as Linda opens
the front door to see what she's been sent, she
only sees the delivery man for a flash, and then

(18:46):
she feels what she thinks is boiling water having been
thrown in her face. God, her mother screams in horror
as Linda starts screaming in pain, her eyes are burning,
her skin is burning. She's rushed to the hospital, where
she'll learn that, of course that liquid was not hot water.
It was a lie. Fuck right, So if you don't know,
that's the chemical that used to be used in soap

(19:08):
and cleaning products. It's very caustic in its raw form,
and that means it can burn human skin. And the obsessive,
delusional man behind this attack seems committed to making Linda's
life a living hell. This is just the beginning of
a long and twisted, not love story, kind of the
opposite of a love story that's presented as a love story,

(19:28):
of course, and was at the time, the details of
which will feed the tabloid press for decades, and in
the early two thousands becomes a documentary called Crazy Love.
This is the story of Linda Ryss and Bert Poohgash.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
I think I've heard of this one.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think you have. Yeah, So the main sources used
today are the two thousand and seven documentary Crazy Love,
directed by Dan Klores and Fisher Stevens.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
The actually definitely saw that, but it's been so long.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yes, yeah, it was like a very early at that time,
a documentary which is like can you believe this story?
And it was kind of reflective on can you believe
what the tabloids used to be like or what these things,
you know, what used to fill up our daily media.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, how we were okay talking about certain things in
ways that were just completely inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, exactly, having the media kind of present the stories
and this is what you will think of this now, right.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
It's like when they call it a crime of passion,
where it's like, that's not a fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Right, Yeah, okay. So the other sources are the book
A Very Different Love Story by Barry Steinbach and several
articles from the New York Times archives, and the rest
of our sources are in the show notes. So this
story actually starts two years before this lie attack in
nineteen fifty seven, when a very successful thirty year old
negligence attorney named Bert Pugash sees twenty one year old

(20:47):
Linda Riss standing alone in a park and Bert will
later say, quote, I thought she was the most magnificent,
gorgeous looking female I had ever seen. She was so
proud looking, the way she carried herself, with her shoulders
throat back, her head held high, her long dark brown
hair just stirring in the breeze. Literally, from the moment
I saw her from thirty feet away, I fell hopelessly

(21:09):
in love with her.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
So he's at a zoo explaining, yes, animal, the female female.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Of this the species species. She's proud, she's proud with
long hair.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Fur is long.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yes, and luxurious. I also think it's kind of sad
because you were not in love with her, right. I
did to her, probably mostly sexually, right, and you don't
know her as a person at all. So he introduces
himself to Linda. He wants to win her over, so
he begins to send her flowers and gifts. It's a
clear case of love bombing, and he's got the money.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
To do it.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
He takes her out to the city's swankiest nightclubs. They
rub elbows with celebrities. He takes her flying in his airplane.
It's just a classic kind of like, I'm going to
invade your life. You're the thing I want. I'm going
to get it.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
We're all in, let's do this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
As charming as it seems at first, he's also emotionally
volatile and manipulative. He's constantly pressuring Linda to sleep with him.
She won't do it unless they're married. Then he goes
on to accusing her of having sex with other men
behind his back, and he is so NonStop and confrontational
about this fact that Linda. This is such a time

(22:21):
and place horror show. Linda goes to a doctor to
get him to confirm her virginity for Bert. Oh my god,
old she twenty two?

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Wow. Yeah, that's creepy.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
It's super creepy. And it's like, so a guy in
a park comes up to you, yeah, and just won't
leave you alone.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
And now he owns your fucking body in life.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, and now you're answering to him in this way
because he has a plane, right, or because he'll take
you to cool places. I mean, it was the setup
back then, Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
It was.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
The whole idea is like, you get pretty enough and
then you get these things, yeah, and whatever comes along
with that, you deal with.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Them totally, totally okay.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
So Linda's very young. This relationship is very confusing for her.
Bert is dazzling her with attention and affection and all
the things his wealth can afford, but he also treats
her terribly at times, and then things begin to escalate
to physical violence. So several months into their relationship, Linda

(23:19):
then finds out Bert is married and has a young daughter.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Oh shit, yes, So that's.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
When she decides she's had enough. This is not the
romance that has been presented or that she wants it
to be. Bert swears to her that he's in the
process of ending his marriage. He even shows Linda his
divorce papers as proof. She's skeptical, and she will later say, quote,
I never trusted Bert. I never trusted men. When Bert

(23:45):
showed me a divorce decree, I wrote down the number
and I had a lawyer check it. Not many girls
would do that.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Damn girl. I feel like if you have to go
that far though, it doesn't matter if it's real.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Or not right you know, yes, and also I'm sorry.
So if you prove it is real, the love's back on.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Like he's still lied to you about being married.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, that's the let's focus on the real problem, right.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
You don't have to have a huge excuse, like the
divorce papers are wrong to break up with someone, right, held, just.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Like not anymore. But back then I think that's the
vibe is like this is your chance to get married,
or this is your chance to landa you know a lawyer,
something amazing. So Linda does her due diligence and it
pays off. She finds out Bert's divorce papers are fake wow,
and he himself is a lawyer, so he just asked

(24:36):
his secretary to mock up convincing looking documents. So this
is when Linda finally ends things, and not long after
she does, she meets someone new, this guy named Larry.
Larry is only a year older than Linda and he
doesn't have the money that Bert does, but Linda describes
him as quote a nice, easygoing guy. He's also described

(24:57):
as quote one of the most beautiful men she had
ever seen.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
So now she's at the fucking zoo. Yes, I'll have
that koala.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
She's like, how about I get some of this? And
then also, maybe money isn't the thing I'm looking for here.
The young couple genuinely seems happy together, but Bert isn't
ready to let Linda go. He bombards her with calls
and impromptu visits, begging her to take him back. At first,
she finds it sort of flattering, because I mean, like,

(25:23):
and that is the play. We are always talking about
what women did or didn't do, and whether they handled
it right or not or anything. And it's like you're
getting the full court press by this con man, and
it's your fault that you're falling for.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
We've all been twenty two. It's like twenty two hard.
It's fucking hard.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Oh So, at first Linda finds all of it pretty flattering,
but then she says, quote, it shortly becomes very stifling.
Bert was relentless. He would not stop calling, he would
not stop following me. It was a time of hell
for me. So Linda is forced to continue to reject Bert,
and then Bert begins to spiral. Soon he's threatening to

(26:02):
take his own life. He's also saying things to people
like quote, if I can't have her, I'll see to
it that nobody will. And Bert actually goes so far
as to hire men to throw rocks at Linda's window,
hoping that she will then turn to him for protection.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh okay, weird.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Of course she knows it's him. She's very freaked out
by this escalating behavior, and so finally she goes to
the cops. What's the course of this song? They don't
help her, Linda says, quote, the police officer at the
desk told me that they weren't going to do anything
quote because he's a lawyer. So she decides to take
matters into her own hands. She changes her phone number,

(26:42):
which telling you it's if it's nineteen sixty something. At
this point, changing her phone number is I bet you
she had to like to submit tons of paperwork to
do that big pain in the ass. Then she finds
a receptionist job one block from the nearest subway stop,
so she doesn't have to, like my God, expose herself
or go all around. She even tries to file legal

(27:04):
charges against Bert, but he retaliates by writing his own
bogus claims aimed at making the Risus lives miserable. So God,
he's like ready and willing and very able to weaponize
the kind of legal system against her and in defense
of himself. So now it's the spring of nineteen fifty nine.
Oh it's fifty nine, which, yes, it They just got phones.

(27:25):
Now she's trying to change her number. They're like, ma'am,
we don't have anymore. It's still murray Hill three, five
seventy nine.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
No other phone numbers.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
It only goes up to five thousand. Okay, So the
spring of nineteen fifty nine, Linda and her boyfriend Larry
get engaged, and as you can imagine, Bert freaks out.
Linda will later say a quote, that was my undoing
the minute I accepted a ring and got engaged. That's
when Bert went ballistic completely. That's when he really lost it.

(27:53):
So Bert shows up outside of Linda's house with a
loaded gun, fully prepared to shoot Linda and Larry as
they leave her home, but at the last minute, he
changes his mind. He will later admit, quote, it's not
an easy thing to kill, to shoot a person, I
had to retreat. She kind of making himself sound like
a victim in that situation. This is too hard for me,

(28:14):
where it's like this was your idea. Yeah, So instead
of doing the dirty work himself, Bert decides he's going
to outsource the job. That brings us back to the
morning June fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine, when the man Linda
thinks is a delivery person throws a lie in her face.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
So the fuck could you get to do something like that?
I mean, like this person is just a rando and
is like, yep, I'll do that. Sure, I'll disfigure a stranger.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
And usually at the end of these stories, they disfigure
a person for like three hundred dollars, right exactly, So,
of course this horrible thing happens. Linda's rushed to the hospital.
Her friend will later remember quote Linda just lay there
unconscious with greasy medications smeared all over her eyes and face.
There were massive scars all around her eyes. Her cheeks

(29:03):
and forehead were burned terribly. So when Linda wakes up
in the hospital the next morning, she can't see. She's
so distraught that her friends and family are afraid that
she might take her own life. And they actually install
bars on the windows of the hospital room. So it
was so long ago that there weren't already bars on

(29:24):
the windows of hospital rooms. Those windows could open. Meanwhile,
order the violin attack on a young, beautiful bride to
be draws the interest of tabloid reporters, which is kind
of strange. It's like the lead up to like the
National Inquirer of the eighties, but like, I feel like this,
we've done versions of this. There's a lot of celebrity

(29:46):
versions whatever, but this kind of straight up a stranger.
It's the Sherry Peppini that I think that it died.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
There's a scoop and we need it. Yeah, this is
like salacious.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, it just doesn't feel like they do this as
much A yeah, it's complete.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
So Linda gives them a statement when they call, saying, quote,
you read about these things, but you don't believe they
could ever happen to you. Why did it happen to me?
I only hope to die. So she really gives them
a quote.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, they're looking for silacious, and they're looking for
a horror show, and she gives it to them. So
from there, the media interest around Linda's attack grows and grows,
and her story makes headlines across New York. Meanwhile, everyone
who knows Bert Puhgash has the same thought. He has
to be behind this attack. Linda spends nearly three months

(30:36):
recovering in the hospital, and she's placed under police production
after the fact. Although she regains about eighty percent of
her vision in one eye, she's lost her other eye
oh my god, as well as all her hair. She
has permanent scarring on her face, and the entire time
that she's recovering in the hospital, Bert is continually sending

(30:57):
her flowers the fuck, calling her constantly and repeatedly asking
to see her. Oh so just relentless sponster. Based on
the descriptions from Linda and her mother, the police note
that Bert was not the one who threw the light
in her face, but they're certain he's behind it. Unlike
before when Linda asked for help and got ignored, detectors

(31:20):
are now working very hard to see that she gets justice.
And then I wrote in all caps now that she's
lost an eye, like.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
She needed it a minute before that.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Well, also, it just is that thing of like people
not only didn't see the warning signs of like an
obsessive stalker type like this, it was romanticized. It was
like kind of in the media of like, isn't this
sad for this bride. We're not talking about the guy
at all. We're not saying here's a well known lawyer
in this city. It's just get the quote from her totally.

(31:51):
So the cops just needs solid evidence to secure Bert's
conviction so that they can make an arrest.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Fortunately for the cops, Burt can't keep his mouth shut.
Investigator secure warrant to bug his law office and immediately
catch him on tape, basically admitting that he orchestrated the
attack on Linda. So he's finally arrested on October thirtieth,
nineteen fifty nine, along with the three men that he
hired to help him carry out that attack. Yeah, so

(32:20):
the Daily News reports this, Linda brought to the station
house by her policewoman guard, identified the lie thrower, and
then kissed every one of the detectives who had worked
so hard. And then I just wrote, in all caps,
I don't like.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
That at all all. No, maybe it's like a thank you.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Maybe, but also just gross.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
It's gross.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
What are we doing? So, as Bert's trial looms ahead
of him, his wife leaves him. I might it's so wild.
He's disparted. He's no longer a lawyer. It sound like
I said disparted, but I said, is what I meant
in my heart. Of course, Linda hates him, so at

(33:05):
this point he has nothing to lose, and he starts
acting like it. He tries to mess with everyone involved
in the trial. So he starts filing frivolous lawsuits against
the judge in the case, against the DA as well
as against the City of New York itself, right before
he's supposed to head into the courtroom one day, he
takes the lens out of his eyeglasses and attempts to

(33:26):
slit his wrists, but totally just superficial wounds. According to
writer Barry Steinback, this was Bert's attempt at orchestrating a mistrial.
Barry Steinbeck says, quote, he thought it would incapacitate him
for several weeks, too long for the jury to be held.
But it doesn't. The scheme doesn't work. His wounds are

(33:47):
not going to hold any trial back. So in July
of nineteen sixty two, Bert Pugash is found guilty of
soliciting the lie attack and is handed a maximum sentence
of thirty years in prison. When Linda is asked for
her though on the sentencing, she says, quote, I didn't
think it was long enough. I wanted him to rot
in there. And the other men are sentenced as well,

(34:08):
so Linda's discharged from the hospital. In the fall of
nineteen fifty nine, she tries to start over. She moves
into a brand new apartment so she's not in the
apartment where the attack happened anymore. She starts to go
out in public. She wears stylish wigs. She always wears
big dark sunglasses, she has an artificial eye. She basically
is kind of trying to get back out there, but

(34:30):
she has this future that she planned that's just fading away.
Comes to her fiance, well, she this is very, very sad,
but she can tell she feels like Larry wants to
get out of the engagement and that he's basically feels
like he has to go through with it. So she
basically tells him she's like letting him out of it.

(34:51):
So she says, I don't think it's safe for you
to be in this because he's going to do something
and giving him who gives him an out? He takes
the app terrible way to find out that's not your
true love, but how it is, and she's right, who
knows what he's going to do once he gets out
of jail. It's not going to be for a while,
but who knows. So Larry does argue at first, he

(35:13):
promises to stay by her side, but he does eventually
end the engagement, and Linda's in this spot now where
it's just kind of like, so the person that I
did want to marry doesn't stay in and then this
guy that I kind of just dated and thought I
was having a romance with is my nightmare and this
is just these are my choices now, oh no, Yeah.

(35:35):
So she does start seeing a man who seems interested
in her. They date for a while, he even proposes,
but the man has never seen Linda without her sunglasses on,
and so she's really anxious. She is objectively a gorgeous woman. Yeah,
obviously she's been scarred and you know, had there's damage
because of that attack. But this is a woman who's

(35:58):
gorgeous enough and came up in this very sexist and
very repressed time where a woman was raised to build
her worth on how men, how attracted men were to her.
That was life back then. So this kind of anxiety
and this kind of like, oh, I hope he still
picks me is pretty par for the course. Linda's friend

(36:22):
suggests that she make arrangements to meet with her boyfriend
purely for the reason of having him see her without
the dark glasses on. So here's what Linda has to
say about that plan. She says, quote, lo and behold,
he came up to the office one day and I
was wearing my clear glasses and apparently it kind of
floored him. Let me put it that way. It was

(36:44):
more than he expected. He couldn't handle it. You know.
It devastated me. It hurt me, destroyed me. She also says,
you have to understand, I'm now a different person. I'm
walking around with shades. I'm never taking off these shades.
I'm not thinking in terms of ever getting married. It's
just not going to happen. I am now damaged merchandise.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
So that brings us into the early seventies and now
Bert in his mid forties. He's doing time in Attica upstate,
and he served about a decade of his sentence, and
of course has learned nothing. He continues to HARASSM.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Linda.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
She says, quote, Bert used to send me mail from prison,
pages and pages of letters. I used to change numbers
like you would change underwear. Didn't work, It never helped.
No matter what I did, there was no getting away.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
From Oh my god, he wouldn't give it up. No.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
And also, no one's doing it.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
And I think that he'd be like he'd get a
restraining order against himself. Yeah, I mean like he wouldn't
be able to send those They intercepted them at the prison. Yeah.
She couldn't call her something.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
It was pre all those things getting set up where
it's like, so, don't let the guy in jail for
attacking this woman send.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Letters to this harm continue harassing her. Let's put it
on the blackout list. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
So in nineteen sevenone, as everyone knows because Georgia covered
this on this show, there's a huge prison riot at Attica.
And during that time, somehow Bert crosses paths with civil
rights attorney William Kunstler. Cunseler is probably most famous for
representing the anti Vietnam War protesters known as the Chicago Seven,

(38:20):
but he also has a deep roster of notable clients.
And remember, Bert is a rich guy, an ex lawyer himself.
He has been giving legal advice to his fellow inmates,
and that's probably how he met Cunseler. Either way, the
two develop some sort of a relationship, and so then
Linda's phone rings and she says, quote, one day, Bill

(38:42):
Kunstler gets on the phone and tells me how much
Bert loves me and he wants to get back with
me in all this crap. And I said, if he's
so freak and interested, then why the hell doesn't he
send me some money. I'm living like a present. I
have no money, let him show his good faith end quote. Okay,
So Linda's in her mid thirties. She has been losing
vision in her remaining eye. Because of that, she can't

(39:04):
work anymore. So getting money from the man who violently
assaulted her is appropriate and seems normal. So Counsuler reports
this message back to Bert, who sees it as a win,
of course, because at least Linda's actually communicating back with him.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, he sees that as like an opening. Yes.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
So, in the documentary Crazy Love, Bert claims this is
when he starts charging for the legal advice he's giving
to his fellow inmates, and soon he's able to send
Linda around one hundred dollars a week. It's hard to
tell exactly how much he sends Linda, he claims in
the documentary. He sends her four thousand dollars, which is
how much in today's money.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
In seventy two, four thousand, nineteen thousand.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Thirty thousand.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yes, so he's sending her money, which to me is
like kind of a good faith thing of like, yes,
you took away her vision, yeah, the court should have
probably yeah yeah, okay, which should have been that, but
this is prehistory caveman times. So. Fourteen years into his sentence,
in March of nineteen seventy four, forty seven year old

(40:08):
Bert Pugash has a scheduled parole hearing, and Linda knows
it's coming, so she writes to the parole board. She
tells them to deny his request. She says she'd like
to see him die behind bars. She actually writes quote,
I want him to come out of prison in a box.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
The judge grants him parole. No Bert is ordered to
stay away from Linda as a condition of his.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Release, which he follows. Story is over yep.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
In fact, though he it's such a big news story
that he has been released from prison that although he's
not allowed to contact Linda directly, he suddenly has a
better way to reach her, which is on the local
news so media. Literally a week after he's paroled, Linda's
watching TV and she sees a clip of him in

(40:56):
an interview where he turns and looks directly into the
camera and says, Linda, I know you're out there, Linda.
I love you, Linda. I want to marry you.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh my god. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
And now he's free that's awful. And if you are
the reporter for the New York Post, totally whatever it is,
you're like, we're back on gold.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
This is gold.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
It's gold.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
And you're not even going to think about morally if
we should do this or not.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
No, no, no, because we have to. And it's been
going on at this point for like twenty years.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Yeah, this story is they're so giving, so much. So.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Linda's thirty five years old at this point, honey, it's
nineteen seventy four. Then in terms of single lady years,
she's about fifty five. In that statement. In the documentary
Crazy Love, a Friend will simply describe Linda as having
quote no One on the horizon, so big concern for everybody.
At the time, some of Linda's own friends, including the

(41:56):
policewoman who met Linda while protecting her from Bert before
he was convicted, begin to encourage Linda to reach.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Out to Bert.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
What yes, So it's like, they're saying, but he loves
you so much, what else have you got?

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Kind of Yeah, I mean he's better than being alone somehow.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, yes, get a dog. God forbid, you'd be an
old maid. You could have this guy. Yeah, you could
have this guy so, and also she's if she has
friends and families saying that to her, and then she's
also the one going through this deal with however she
feels about her appearance and the change of it. So,

(42:38):
about three months after Bert is released from prison, that
same policewoman arranges a meeting between Bert and Linda Honey.
At first it's awkward, but Linda also finds it at
first disarming and then kind of comforting because she says, quote,
in jail, they made a new man out of Bert.
He was muscular, he looked good. I wore my clear

(43:01):
glasses and this is this hurts me deeply. Sorry I'm
still in this quote. But I wore my clear glasses.
I don't think I could have revealed myself with clear
glasses to anyone else. He saw no difference to him.
I was still beautiful.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
They the psychological trauma alone, yep, is just so clear
based on that.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, and the damage that would be done to like
feeling like you might be in love with a person.
Then you're like, oh, but I have this thing and
take your sunglasses off and that person's like, by yeah,
which is also just what everyone goes through in relationships.
At some point you have some sort of right right
symbolic sunglasses that you end up taking off and people
are like, no way.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Or they're like okay, but you're so damaged that you're like,
but I don't believe you, And so I refuse to
I refuse to allow it, yause I just won't believe it.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
And this guy who has harmed her reparably has gotten
her to that point where it's like, well, then it'll
just be me. He'll be the only one broker broker
and like worked this system to his advantage in the
most horrifying way.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
So Linda's convinced to give Bert a chance, and eight
months after he walks out of prison for attacking her
with Lye, Linda accepts Bert's proposal and they get married.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
No Yes.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
The New York Daily News runs the.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Front how they lost their mind over at the media.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
The New York Daily News runs the front page headline
quote woman wed's man who blinded her.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Jesus okay.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Many years later, The New York Times reports on the
many factors that lead to Linda's decision to marry her abuser,
noting this this is the list of the factors quote,
a Christian sense of forgiveness, the advice of a fortune teller,
the fear that another woman would scoop up mister poohgash.
But mostly she cited her need to move forward. And

(44:58):
then there's a quote from Linda saying, if you're soh know,
remain bitter and obsessed, it will destroy you.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Okay, but you still don't need to Okay. Tough misguided.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
That last line, of course, echoes Bert's own crazy obsession,
but in his case it seems to have gotten him
exactly what he wanted.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, it worked.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
So the surprise is that Bert and Linda stay married
for decades.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Jesus.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
They settle into a strange, sometimes combative, but apparently functional partnership,
but instead of retreating to their own private life, they
become media darlings. The couple does the round on talk shows,
they sit for newspaper profiles. They lean into the tabloid
coverage that so often frames our relationship as a quirky,
twisted love story instead of just a one long, strange

(45:46):
cycle of abuse. Bert eventually starts working as a paralegal,
and he even brags after their wedding quote, my incub
doubled the first week, doubled, maybe tripled gross, super gross.
So Bert knows how to stay in the headlines. More
than two decades after marrying Linda. In nineteen ninety seven,
he's arrested again, this time for harassment. You heard that right.

(46:10):
While Linda is recovering from heart surgery, Bert meets a
woman and begins a five year affair with her.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Fuck you.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
So, this woman accuses Bert of threatening her life, even
telling her he'd quote blind her like Linda, oh my
god if she ever refuses to see him. So when
this story comes out, in response, Bert insists he was
never going to actually hurt her.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
I was just threatening this woman, okay.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Even though your record is one to know of actually
threatening to hurting. Meanwhile, Linda is of course furious, but
stands by him. She tells reporters quote for all intents
and purposes, he's been a good husband. He sucks right now.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Are you crying?

Speaker 2 (46:53):
No, it's so disturbed. I know.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
It's horrible.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, it's horrible and sad. It's so like one hallway
going one direction. You have to get to the end,
which is marriage.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Anyway possible. You have to how do we.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Do you think that women of today have fully incorporated
this lesson. That alone is better than this.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
I think a larger percentage of women now, much larger
double triple, probably understand that.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah, but it seems recent that idea.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
It can't be there can't be that many.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, I guess you not a lock later, let's talk after, Okay.
So Bert gets arrested and has to go to trial
for threatening this woman. Linda acts as a character witness
at that trial.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
How are you going to do that?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Do you know she's going to walk in in her sunglasses?

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Well, he hasn't done that much bad stuff since he
threw fucking lie in my face.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Well here's it's a little. Uh, it's not as as
it might sound. Because Bert is his own lawyer in
this trial. So he's ultimately convicted of second degree harassment.
None of their plan works. He beats the stronger charges,
so I guess that part does. He only serves fifteen
days in jail for threatening this woman. From here, life

(48:18):
presses on for the two. In two thousand and seven,
when Bert is around eighty years old and Linda is
around seven years old, they become the subject of the
documentary Crazy Love and director Dan Kloris tells The New
York Times that Bert's possessiveness was still on full display
during the filming. For example, Burt could not follow the

(48:38):
very simple orders to stay away from Linda during the shoots.
Claoraes says, quote, she didn't want him there. She wanted
to talk. I told Bert not to come back for
seven hours. Every hour his key would be in the lock,
and I would tell him to go away just like.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, I get won't drop, won't.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, there's no controlling yes. The film's release prompts another
wave of coverage on the couple, which results in a
very telling line from The Guardian reporter Mary Anne MacDonald,
who writes, quote, having spoken to Burt on the phone,
I have taken an intense dislike to him. Already creepy man.
So twenty thirteen, when Linda Riss is seventy five years old,

(49:18):
she dies of heart failure through sobs, Bert tells the
Associated Press. That is that's it for me?

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Right there? Say it press?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Through sobs, Bert tells the Associated Press, so did you
just get right on the phone with the AP? He
tells them, quote this was a very fairy tale romance.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
I mean I guess in like old school for fairy tales.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, yeah, for Grim's sixteen hundreds German where children get eaten,
eaten and cook and everyone's parents dies. Yes, yes, sir,
hardcore fairy tale. So Over the years, Bert pooh Gosh
has expressed remorse for what he put Linda through, even
established a foundation in her honor for the visually impaired.

(50:03):
He caused it, that caused, Yes, he caused.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
You can't. It doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
It doesn't. It certainly doesn't.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
He promised to leave that foundation fifteen his fifteen million
dollar estate, but instead, when Bert dies on Christmas Eve
in twenty twenty, at the age of ninety three, every
penny goes to who would you.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Think that girlfriend who took him to court.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
A brand new one, a caregiver claiming to have been
romantically involved with him in his final years.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Fuck, I mean she got hers then, fifteen? How did
you get fifteen million dollars?

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Well maybe it was his from before being a lawyer,
and he had some stashed away, he said, is his
pay one up times three? I'm sure they sold stories.
I'm sure they got paid to be in places. I
don't know okay. As of a twenty twenty one reporting,
Bert's state is the subject of a lawsuit alleging that
he had been coerced into changing his will ahead of
his death. Unclear where that investigation stands today. But it's

(51:06):
just one more bizarre twist in a saga that, despite
so much coverage framing it this way, hardly feels like
it can be called the love story. In fact, back
in the late seventies, when Linda Riss was asked by
a reporter if she ever loved Bert, her answer seemed
pointedly elusive. She said, quote, I don't even like the word.
It's so hard to define. And that's the story of

(51:30):
the crazy love of Linda Riss and Bert. Oh gosh, wow,
I want to see a picture. Yeah, that's devastating, insane.
Oh man, oh she was so beautiful. Wow that makes
me sick. So, oh my god, what great job. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Okay, now it's your turn. Now it's my turn, and
we're gonna take it. Okay, great, not right away. This
is about a not well known war that took place
in Western Australia in the nineteen thirties. Oh that, I mean,
it's so not well known that We got one email

(52:16):
from a listener about it in the Gmail. That's it. Okay,
But I think it's going to be your new favorite war. Okay,
I have so many.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I mean, yeah, it's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough.
I'd say my first favorite wars is mash Okay.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna start cold, and I'll tell
you what it's called. Okay, in a moment. Okay, I'll wait,
please wait, okay, please hold. So we're in the aftermath
of World War One. Thousands of veterans who are nicknamed
soldier settlers, moved to Western Australia and it's a vast
area with a huge array of climates. There's tropical coast

(52:53):
up north, desert in the interior, a Mediterranean climate similar
to parts of California on the southwestern coasts. It's a
fucking beautiful place. We should all move to.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
We should, don't you think. Remember we did like a
tour which was kind of southeastern.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Yeah, we didn't go to Perth.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
We didn't go to Perth or next time.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
So the Australian government has bought thousands of tracts of
land to sell to the soldiers at discounted prices in
an effort to reward the men for their service with
farmland to develop and profit from. So they're trying to
you know, expand back. Yeah, there are more than five
thousand soldiers who buy land under the scheme, and the
problem is that the amount of land with good soil

(53:34):
for farming in Western Australia is kind of low, so
many of these soldiers are stuck out on tracks with
low quality soil and a host of other issues that
haven't really been thought through. In the end, most of
these soldiers wind up raising sheep and planting wheat, which
is what's most suited to the climate. And in the
nineteen twenties there's actually a string of really good years.

(53:57):
The wheat grows well, the farmers are insulated a bit
from back years by selling wool from the sheep, and
everyone is making money. Everything's fine. Then in nineteen twenty nine,
your favorite great depression happens. The Great Depression, the Great,
the greatest, the greatest Depression. I was falling asleep last
night to the world according to Kunk by filming the Kunk,
of course. So it's truly one of the best books

(54:19):
ever in period.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Oh, I thought you're talking about the TV show. You're
listening to the book.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Yeah, the audiobook I'm listening to. Yeah, okay. Got at first.
When the Great Depression starts, the price of wheat stays
pretty stable. Other prices for goods tank in Australia, so
the government pushes a big initiative to get farmers to
produce more wheat because it's selling.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Hey, great, let's just do it.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
The slogan they come up with for the farmers to
grow more wheat is I.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Guess, hey, it's wheat time.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Guys. Nope, it's it's more complicated. It's just grow more wheat.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Damn it.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
I should have had you on their creative team. Goddamn it.
The Australian Prime minister promises the farmers that the government
will buy the wheat at a good price. Australian farmers
enthusiastically take him up on this offer, vastly expanding their
wheat production.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
But by the early nineteen thirties there's a new prime minister.
That always fucking happens. You never planned for that every time.
That's Joseph Lyons, and the global price of wheat tanks
tanks for nothing. The government.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
You acted like you were reading off the page was
good one.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
The government, which already is facing a massive deficit, actually
goes back on the previous prime minister's promise because they
can do that. So the situation is already fairly bleak
at this point. By October of nineteen thirty two, that's
where we are when that year's wheat harvest is supposed
to start. Farmers in the town I'm going to get
these wrong Australians. I'm real sorry, farmers near the towns

(55:53):
of Campion and Wallgulin. That sounds right, yeah, reporting issue.
This area is one of the drier parts of the
state and it wasn't as well suited to farming already.
Right before the farmers are meant to start harvesting their
wheat on this land, a plague overtakes the farms and
rieks havoc on the crops they trample, they devour. There

(56:16):
more than a nuisance. There, a downright pestilence of epic proportions.
This is the story of the Great Emu War. Oh
WHOA what Emu. All of a sudden, these poor gentlemen farm,
It's like it's not going great.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
They're just trying to make the best of it, and suddenly.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
They talk their wife into coming. It's gonna be great.
We're gonna be farmers, We're gonna own lake. It's okay.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
It's you're afraid of birds. That's fine. There's hardly any
birds out here.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Yeah. No, it's totally fine. It's Australia. It could go wrong.
I mean wild animal WHI.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Is not snake, snakes, cocks and big shout out to
my researcher Ali Elkin for even coming up with this story.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Because so good. I saw it and responded in all
caps because it was so exciting, you know. Yes, So
let me tell you a little bit about EMUs, since
I don't know how familiar you are with them.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I could be thinking of kiwi, which is the small bird.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
You're you're it's not a kiwi. This is the large
one that looks kind of like a ostrich. Yeah, okay, yeah, okay.
So emas are actually native to Australia. And I wrote, like,
Charlie's thereon Wait, that's not right, is she? I think
she's South African? You know who I met? I met
Nicole Kidman. Oh yes, Barbie, I'm a Barbie Margot Margaret Robbie's. Fuck, man,

(57:36):
I can't even get that. Don't believe what word I said.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
You had so many choices I did, just.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Blonde beautiful actresses, and I picked the wrong fucking one.
They're the world's second or third largest bird. I couldn't
tell based on searching. Right there, right after ostriches, So
ostritriches are bigger than them. Then there's EMUs. Emas are
considered one of the closest living relatives to dinosaurs. Yes, right, okay,
particularly to raptors. Oh man. Yeah, they're the only species

(58:04):
of bird that has calf muscles.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
That's so crazy, creepy and little uh like fighting Irish
tattoos on those calf muscles even worse, and.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
They can jump seven feet high. They can sprint for
short distances of forty miles per hour.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
No, that's fast.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
It is. It's like on the freeway here. And that's
actually about the speed of an average racehorse too, So
they're fucking.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Fast, little share it's fast.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Right. Emu's have a pouch in their throat that they
used to make deep booming and grunting sounds for communications
that are Wow. You know I was gonna say that
this is YouTube, particularly during breeding season. Hey, and then
here is where a note to Georgia, Ali put a
video of an emu running to see how fast it

(58:53):
could go. And then I got into a fucking rabbit
hole of emu videos. How to go? I wrote zoos
because emos get zoomies. Emu's playing fetch with a little
girl dog and baby. There's a one with a dog
and a baby emu playing. They're fucking adorable.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Okay, so is this like people now have emu farms,
like they're raising them like Austin. Yes, okay, so.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
Yeah, so I went down this rabbit hole I saw
them run. It totally looked like the beginning of Jurassic
Park with all these long necks, just like they're really
fun and I want one now, and you're I was.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Gonna say, and you're like, but thence, come on, just
one more ems.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
And actually, some EMUs can be gentle and affectionate if
they're raised that way from a young age, but others
can be aggressive and moody, especially if they're not socialized
property dittoh, and they may react angrily to being touched
or handled. Hey, hey, when's yeah, so they have tiny wings,
so they're flightless, but they're known to migrate very long

(59:53):
distances in search of food and water. In the past,
EMUs typically moved through this area that we're in toward
the coast with out staying long before. But there's been
a drought in nineteen thirty two, and the creation of
this new farmland has both cleared areas of vegetation and
obstacles and has established new water sources for livestock and irrigation.

(01:00:15):
It's the perfect place for EMUs. So in this area
in this time period, guess how many migratory EMUs visit
this area at once.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
I'm gonna go ahead and say, you don't have to
guess if you don't want to. I mean, look, I
don't want I don't want to guess, but I have
to guess. No, I really want to. I want emu
standing here. How many do you think fucking showed up
for the Great Emu War? Five hundred twenty thousand?

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
What twenty fucking thousand EMUs onto this like smallish area.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Because also they're eating that wheat.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
They're eating the wheat, yep, they're drinking all the irrigated water.
They're like stomping, they're trampling. They're like wreaking habit partying.
They're fucking partying.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
This is their kind of what do you call it?
Burning man? It's a nineteen thirty two early burning man.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Totally. You meet me on the plaia a man, be
yourself to put that number in perspective, Ali, let me
know that twenty thousand EMUs would fill your typical arena
where an NBA team would play. It's the exact capacity
of the crypto dot com arena. So you're not even
playing basketball. And then you look up into the crowd
and it's fucking just all to all EMUs and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
They're like doing weird shit, like they're gonna come down.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Right, they're like getting ready to and they're dinosaurs.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
They're dinosaurs the same amount of feathers as ostriches.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
I think, so, yeah, yeah, they're similar to ostrich.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
They you would think it was an ostrich.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Yeah you would. You would. Yeah, you'd get it wrong,
and you wouldn't be stupid right for it. Yeah, that's
what we keep telling ourselves. Right, And to make matters worse,
high tariffs and posed in the post war and depression
area have made wire netting prohibitively expensive, so they can't
afford to fence out the EMUs. That's not a choice,

(01:02:10):
I know. So it's literally a perfect story. It is.
So the farmers who are all vets, remember they're all
veterans to World War One. Yeah, say to the level
headed thing, and they write to the Minister of Defense
asking asking to be supplied with machine guns to kill
the emos as you do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Well, the problem is, and I think we've talked about
this a lot of like it's sheer numbers where it's like, yeah,
if it was five hundred EMUs, right, they would be
a little more reasonable twenty thousand of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
These one two thousand and then. So maybe because the
government has jerked these farmers around so many times with
the price of weed already, they kind of know they're
in trouble with these farmers already. They want to appear
like they're helping them. So the minister says yes to
the gun request. But since the government in Australia has
smart brains that think in a normal way, machine guns

(01:03:00):
are tightly regulated there. Yes, can you imagine, I mean,
what a world to live in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
But also they just because the farmer soldiers asked for
machine guns, why can't they just have regular guns?

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Right? They wanted machine guns. I know, it sounds more fun. Probably,
they're probably poured out of their fucking mindes at this
point and they're in rage and rage. So instead, three
specially trained soldiers are sent from Perth to the region
to operate the machine guns. Okay, okay, everyone doesn't get
a machine gun. Great, these three guys get a machine gun.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Will send machine guns to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
You with people who can operate them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Good plan.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
And it's not just like a little machine gun that
you can hold and operate and move around with. It's
a huge tube that needs to be propped up. It
has a wheel of bullets. It's like, you know, a
World War One type gun. Yeah, the rest of the
farmers are allowed to help shoot at the EMUs, but
they have to use boring all regular rifles. Okay, So
the farmers also agree to house the three military specialists
and to pay for the ammunition for the guns. Not

(01:04:00):
the greatest deal.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Plan or deal for them. Yeah, but you do have
to do that thing where like after a while you're like, sure,
but you did agree to do this huge, crazy thing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Yes, that's true, but under what pretenses? Like what they
lies true.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Where it's like, oh, you can farm this beautiful area,
but it's Australia, so it's like it's all snakes and spiders.
Yeah they can't. The expectation couldn't have been.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
And no EMUs easy, Yeah, there was no no emu clause,
no emut clause.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
We guarantee no large bird.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Will come at you, non mass legit dinosaur hordes of them, yeah, okay.
So the army specialists are overseen by a man named
Major Gwynned Purvis. When Aubrey Meredith is his name.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Or his sixth first names.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Yeah, cool, And so he's there overseeing it. And then
a cinematographer also joins the group to film the anti
emu offensive okay, which is great, presumably because people in
the Australian government believed it would be successful. They're like,
let's send a cameraman out there and this will be
great propaganda for like what we do for our farmers.
The soldiers arrive on November two, nineteen thirty two, and

(01:05:11):
the war begins. On the first day they arrive, a
flock of fifty EMUs is spotted at one of the farms,
so they set up their guns on some nearby high ground.
The guns jam almost immediately and the EMUs scatter.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Ooh.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
The next day the soldiers have a bit more successful.
They set up ambushes around water sources, but immediately proves
to be very slow going Between the rifles and the
machine guns, the soldiers are able to pick off about
out of twenty thousand EMUs in one day. They pick
off about twelve EMUs max. Before the rest of the
flock has scurried out of range. Yeah, so in a

(01:05:46):
day's work, that's twelve EMUs out of twenty thousand, and
that's a good day. It turns out, Oh, the farmers
in the military have woefully underestimated their adversaries. I told
you about how fast they are, and I told you
about how they have calf muscles.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
So they're like, so they're cool, yeah, kind of hot.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
The soldiers that were sent to the farms, they start
getting nervous. They've been instructed by one of their commanding
officers to bring back at least one hundred EMU skins
because EMU feathers are used to decorate the ceremonial helmets
for a particular military union in Australia. So this commanding
officer was like Hey, this is a great way to
get a bunch of fucking emos. But it's becoming increasingly

(01:06:24):
apparent that killing any EMUs, let alone a hundred to
bring back, is not going to be easy. Yeah, because
the EMUs have now started to appoint their own officers, oh,
who act as scouts for the rest of the flock. Yes, yes,
they're fucking smart.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
They went back to headquarters and they said, sorry, those
guys on the hill do not want what's best for us. No,
something's going down, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
One EMU work correspondent wrote at the time, quote, the
EMUs have proved that they are not so stupid as
they are usually considered to be because they didn't run
around like fucking any like they do run around. They
look goofy like turkeys. But doesn't mean they're dumb, no,
he says. Each mom has its leader, always an enormous
black plumed bird standing fully six feet high, who keeps

(01:07:11):
watch while his fellows busy themselves with the wheat. At
the first suspicious sign, he gives a signal, and dozens
of heads stretch up out of the crop. Dinosaurs A
few birds will take fright, starting a headlong stampede. Into
the scrub, the leader always remaining until his followers have
reached safety.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
End quote. Shit, So fucking Papa Bear is like, hey, guys,
here they are. That was a scatter.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
We've survived for hundreds of millions of years, so we
got this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
There, We're fucking dinosaurs.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
No one panic.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Remember those cavemen from back then, real recently they.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Barely made it. It's those guys. These are cousins of
those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
They think they're gonna kill us the kid. After the
first week of the EMU war, it is reported that
the group have used twenty five hundred rounds of ammunition
to kill just three hundred EMUs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
And that's a generous estimate that comes from one of
the military specialists. And you know they fucking raise those
numbers absolutely. So I'm gonna read you this quote. The
one person who wrote towards Gmail about like you guys
should cover the story it's really crazy is someone named
Zach Greedy. She hear and zig Greedy included a quote
from someone named John p Rafferty that came from the Wikipedia.

(01:08:28):
So here is that quote that Zagratty included. Okay, quote
the machine gunner's dream of point blank fire into serried
masses of EMUs were soon dissipated. The EMU command had
evidently ordered gerrilla tactics, and its unwieldy army soon split
up into innumerable small units that made use of the
military equipment uneconomic, meaning like you're wasting your fucking bullets. Yep. Meanwhile,

(01:08:54):
in Parliament, Prime Minister Joseph Lyons remember him, is now
facing questions about the expense of the EMA War. One
of the members of Parliament from Sydney asked sarcastically if
any of the parties involved in the EMA War should
be receiving a medal. Harsh yeah, and someone says, if
anyone should be getting a medal, it should be the EMUs.
That sounds like a fun Parliament.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
It's true.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
After two weeks the EMUs seem to have learned the
range of the machine guns. They fucking you can't. You
can't hit me this far, you can't get me. I'm
out of your range.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
It's like when you can't leave the part of the
couch that you have won, right, so then your sister
just walks just out of range of like, well, then
I'll go get myself like a cookie, and you can't
have one exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
They set up shop in the wheat fields just out
of that range and move every time the soldiers reposition themselves,
scatter when the farmers get close with the rifles. All
this scattering and running is also causing the EMUs to
trample more wheat than they would have if you had
never started this fucking Ema war. After the most successful
day of the war, maybe two dozen EMUs are killed rip.

(01:09:58):
One of the military specialists examined one of the dead
EMUs and finds that it has five bullets in its body,
some of which are clearly old wounds from the beginning
of the campaign. Oh sh, which means that the EMUs
are staying alive and running it close to full speed
even after being shot multiple times, Like they're fucking terminator.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Yes, they're like, oh no, we're going to yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Isn't that creepy? Like it's exciting a message with his body.
It's looking more and more like the EMUs will win
the war, until suddenly, on December second, the war is
called off. I think they're like, let's put our fucking losses.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Yes, this is insanity.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
The soldiers claim to have killed between one thousand and
two thousand EMUs out of roughly twenty thousand that were
in the combat zone, and the EMUs seem to become
a part of life for the farmers at this point,
having bested the soldiers. Still, in future years, the soldiers
settlers will continue to request machine guns to fight off
the fucking EMUs because I'm about the reproducing, but the

(01:10:58):
Australian Ministry of Defense will turn them down every time. Instead,
the soldier settlers are supplied with additional rifles, and eventually
they become more successful at fending off the EMUs on.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Their own, picking them off one at a time.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Yeah. Between the nineteen forties and nineteen sixties, the farmers
kill more than two hundred thousand of them under a
bounty system. Oh that's a lot. Peter doesn't like that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
No, that's bad.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
I mean, they're so cute little babies, are They're so cute?

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
I mean, can't it be like you just get rid
of enough so that your stuff isn't at risk?

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
It always has to be this like, now they've killed
two hundred thousand, lay, now they're in danger.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Yeah, exactly. Okay, So then later, eventually the price of
fencing comes down, and this becomes a much more practical
way to deal with EMUs than fucking killing hundreds and
hundreds and hundreds of them. Then, in nineteen ninety nine,
EMUs become a protected species in Australia. Yay, And there
are about six hundred thousand of them living in Australia today,

(01:11:56):
which is considered a strong population. So good, good, good good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
They all riddled with bullets and old wounds.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Yeah, oh my god. Yeah, Grandpa is telling the stories
about how you survived the Emu War.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
They thought they got me with this one. I just
kept running.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Major Meredith remember him with a really long name. He
goes on to have a story to military career, having
already served in World War One, he also serves in
World War Two and in the Korean War with distinction.
But I bet that Emu war stuck in his cross.
That's the one that you think, That's the one he
fucking couldn't win. Yeah, and that is the story of
the Great Emu War.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
It's totally insane.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
It's so good. Here's a farmer with an emo emu. Oh,
it's pretty sad.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
He's all mad.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
He's a big bird, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Yeah, that is a big old bird.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
You know, he's saying giky, He's saying, my calves, please,
my calves.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
All right, that was great, Thank you, Thank you Ali
for finding that in the depths of the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Nice one, Ali. I really didn't understand what we were
doing at the beginning, No, but it was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
What do you think was gonna happen?

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
I don't know, but I'm really happy to hear, like
the idea that like, here's how we're gonna use sheer
brute force to solve a problem, and then that problems
like you're not going to that doesn't work that way.
That's always I think a better you know, it's good.
It helps people evolve better ideas.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Yeah, you got to learn how to live in harmony
with nature. Yeah, you get your ass kicked if not.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Or how about somebody figures out cheap barbed wire, You fools,
You could have saved yourself so much time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Okay, so let's do fucking raise and then we're also
going to do our own fucking rays, which I love
because it makes me think throughout my week, like what's
going well and what's going on? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Yes, I think that was one of the ideas when
we originally thought of this was kind of like focusing
on the positive and gratitude and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Pay attention to the good things. Yeah, so mine is
that I finally bought and put together my my very
self put together one of those bird feeders that have
a camera and an app on it that you can
see who's eaten your bird feed So far it's a
squirrel and an adorable mouse and that's it. So it's

(01:14:15):
not going great.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Well, you're it's kind of your urban version where you
need to get the you need to get the birds.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
Yeah. There, but the squirrel's like he's like angry. It's
been really fun watching them try to figure out how
to get to it. And he did or she did
and they finally made it. Yeah, like it'd be like, hey,
you have an animal and be like climbing the tree
near it clearly trying to like jump somehow. Yeah, it's
like it's charming, but.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
There's a whole adventure. You know. We got my dad
dot for Christmas. Yeah, we still have no one's put
it up or like, well he's not gonna put it up, right,
Me and Laura not gonna put it. Kind of hard
I guess we have to task grab it somehow. Yeah,
well I can do it now, I get on there.
Great if you wouldn't mind driving out, not at all.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
What's worse.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
I'm going to do a fucking ride that is as
superficial as possible. The thing that's been really getting me
through like the last month is just like a timed
like a timed and planned morning latte where it's like
this little special kickoff treat. Yes that then, I don't
know why, just that thing where it's like instead of

(01:15:17):
like waking up and just being like soldier through it,
like get these things done or start whatever, it's like no, no, no,
it's like it's latte. It's a little like I'm still
laying in bed, and then I get it, I order it,
and I pick it up and then it's just my
little thing that gets me from like this block of
time to that block of.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Time that is so hugely important in your day to
day life.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
I think I'm very inspired by the millennials and the
gen Zers who are always about like get yourself a
little treat.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Yeah, they're real big into that, yeah, because they're like, hey,
guess what if I don't do this I'm still not
gonna be able to afford a house, so I'm gonna
fucking do it so and have a daily fucking moment
of joy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Yes, get agro about finding your little things of joy
so you can go from little piece of joy to.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
Little piece of joy. It's very important.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
It's very nice approach.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
Okay, now we're going to read yours. You guys can
comment them anywhere you want on Instagram, on all the
places LinkedIn. Yeah, get over there, dot netphizpizz YouTube. We
have youtubes up now and you can comment your fucking
horays there. So here are yours? You want me to
go first?

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Okay, this one fucking eya for fucking hooray. Nice all.
It's from our email. Hi ladies and everyone at exactly right.
Today I accepted my dream job as an elementary school librarian. Yes, oh,
I remember mine so important. I have worked so hard
for this and I cannot wait to help kids see
themselves in the books they read, especially now when reading

(01:16:42):
and books are under attack by our government SSDGM, and
always remember to fight for libraries and for public education.
Nanny he him, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
You, Manny dot Manny you're so right now that libraries
and books are under attack from our government. Is a
true st being made on this podcast in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
Manny is sallying forth.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Manny is kicking ass. Thank you and thank you to
all librarians.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Definitely okay, you go okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Well, this one is, It says my fucking horay is
fast food chili question mark? Question mark. This was sentence
into my favorite murdered Gmail. It says, yeppature is. After
avoiding Wendy's chili my entire life due to the notion
of errant floating thumbs in it, I was finally brave
enough to order it after listening to Karen's recent deep dive.

(01:17:36):
I'm happy to report that the chili is pretty damn decent. Wow,
And honestly, in this motherfucking upside down world, having one
more decent option for lunch is in fact a fucking
heray I mean right, and then it says so so
thanks Karen. I also told my boyfriend he should start
eating walnuts before drinking his coffee because I heard on
a podcast that it's good for your esophagus and heartburn.

(01:17:59):
He looked at me quizzically and said, but you only
listened to murder podcasts. Yeah, I replied, yep, that's where
I heard about it. So I guess tbd on whether
or not he takes the advice. Thanks crew for all
you do. Lindsey, Ah, Lindsay, Lindsey's just turning it all around.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
I love it, Chili. My last one's from Instagram. My
hashtag fucking array is that. On Sunday, I completed MFM.
That's my first marathon. Hey, it was hashtag fucking hard,
but I finished it in three hours, forty eight minutes
and raised one point five k for a local cat rescue.
Hey hat Pad Pause Animal Rescue who specialize in senior,

(01:18:42):
sick and hard to adopt cats. I also volunteer and
foster for them. They rock. I conquered about of flu
and a dog attack during my training Jesus, and I'm
pretty fucking pleased with myself. MFM kept me going through
many long runs. Love the pod now to ice my
old knees at And it's Sophia with a ton of
s's in the beginning and a ton of days at

(01:19:03):
the end. Sophia. Yeah, cad Pause Animal Rescue. Everyone go
follow them.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
That's a great one. Yeah, Sophia is getting it all
done well, same with this person. This is also from
the email, and the subject line of it is want
to be on stage with Bernie Sanders and that it
says last week I got this text from my friend
and union president, and then in parentheses it says, I'm
her VP asking me if I want to be on
stage at the Fighting Oligarchy tour stop in Fulsome, California

(01:19:30):
the next day. Wow. The answer was obviously yes, and
that's how I ended up in the VIP section directly
behind AOC and Bernie, representing my local and state Teachers union.
The event was huge. We could see the constant stream
of people coming in the whole time. It was surreal
and it filled me with such hope in this very
dark time. My face made it on national news today,

(01:19:53):
and then in parentheses it says look for me in
the pink sunglasses shoot, and then it says it blows
my mind that my coworkers and I were part of
history that night. Good will prevail if we stand together,
when we fight, we win. Rachel amazing. Hell, Yes, Rachel,
great job, great work, and thank you. Teachers and teachers'

(01:20:14):
unions fighting for education.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
For their children, not just for their children, for everyone's children,
even the people who are fighting against them.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Yep, all of those children still get fought for because
we got to do this and stand up against straight
up fucking fascism in America in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
Amen, and thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you
being here. Thanks strong.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
We're locking arms together audio wise, spiritually, emotionally, stay.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Sexy, and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Goodbye, Elvis, Do you want a cookie?

Speaker 4 (01:20:58):
This has been an exactly Right production.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
Our editor is Aristotle os Vedo.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
This episode was mixed by Leona Scuolacci.

Speaker 4 (01:21:07):
Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and now.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
You can watch us on Exactly Wright's YouTube page. While
you're there, please like and subscribe.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
Good byebye