73 - Chill Satanist

Hang in there, it’s a new My Favorite Murder! This week, Karen and Georgia delve into Berkley Hostage Crisis from 1990 and Fall River Cult Murders.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hi, Welcome to My Favorite Murderer.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's Karen Kilgarott and that's Georgia Heart start and we
are here.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
And we are phony.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
This is how we do the podcast from now on.
I hope you like it.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
We were told by podcast consultants that we should act
like this at the beginning of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
If you're new to this podcast, you can you probably
hate us all we can to back right off.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's the curse anymore. For oh, that's right, you can
right off, you can f write any a.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
You can go to h E double hockey sticks and.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Also email us, because that's you're supposed to get that
this social media aspect to go right.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
We're at Twitter, and we're at.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
And we're at We're both on bum believen though George
is married. What's another one that's good? I actually wait,
you might have to cut this out, Stephen, because I'll
say her name to you, but I don't know it.
But no, it's Lizzie and I were talking about Bumble.
We were just talking about dating in general, what a

(01:18):
nightmare it is in LA and all that stuff. And
in the conversation of her trying to get me to
join a dating app, I convinced her to rejoin Tinder.
What it was the hilarious turn. It was like she
was trying to convince me, and as she was convincing me,
I'm like, well then why don't you do it? And
then she's like, I don't know. I just I don't know.

(01:39):
You know what, You're right? I should sign good? It
was hilarious. You're good.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
You're just like, I'm gonna turn this motherfucker. Are you
going to sign up for any of them? No?

Speaker 3 (01:47):
You're going to meet someone at a fucking gas station
pumping gas.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
You're gonna be like that? Why I keep hanging out
at gas station? You gotta get a nice car. The
problem is, like my arms are always crossed when I'm
getting gas, So I put out negative.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
You're in, You're more interesting. You don't want superficial shit.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Thank you. Also, I just don't. I don't. I wouldn't
know how to pick people based on their picture because.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I don't know that I'm good at im. I'll take
friends phones and be like yes, yes, or like read
their thing. I don't know, because it doesn't matter to me.
There's no fucking stakes in my other game.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
I don't get a ship. I was actually doing it
for Lizzie for a little while. But it's that thing
where then you start seeing what other people's tastes are,
which is really funny, where I'm like, oh, I would
have said yes to that, Lizzie's like, oh no, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
This is a murder podcast by the guys.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
This is called Karen's Diary. That's how we start.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
This is called.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
I don't know. This is called did you hear this
interesting true crime based piece of news which lots of
people tweeted to me on Twitter. There's a woman named
Agnes Gunnd who is basically a crazy rich philanthropist. She
sold a Liechtenstein worth one hundred and sixty five million
dollars Jesus and donated all of the money to criminal

(03:08):
justice reform, specifically with the eye to reduce mass incarceration
in this country.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
And a lot of people sent it to us on
Twitter saying there are some good millionaires out there, and
also like some finally, some positive news that's great, which
I thought was very cool.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
I just found a friend of mine, a friend like
someone she knows is going a dad. He's like sober,
but years and years ago he well he's going to
prison for eight years for having some pot on him
now in Florida though, oh yeah shit, which is.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Just like so heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
His whole family is not going to have his income,
His kids are going to grow up without him. Whatever
he could do to be a productive member of society
as fucked like, it just doesn't make any fucking stipse
to me.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's so crazy. That's some old leftover. Those laws are
now seeming like blue laws. They're just so old and
like blue law. Blue laws are like those laws that
were in I don't know if they were specifically New England,
but it was like it's like you can't you can't
drink on a Sunday Pass County, right, all that old shit.

(04:21):
That's like they're just still on the books because no
one took them off.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
You can't spit because of the nineteen nineteen Spanish flue,
but would walk in it and track it into their
house exactly right, But I mean it should still be illegal.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, that would be nice.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, Hey, okay, so okay, we were going to talk
about Mommy, Dad and dearest finally because we've been promising it.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, but do you have any other short pieces of
business before we get into that discussion business business. Oh
the video of Caleb Brown when she was discovered on
Todd Collop's you know farm or whatever.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Remember when a couple of months ago there was that
they found this them in chained up in storage container. Right, Yeah,
they showed someone was like they have video of them
opening it getting to her, and I was like, I
can't watch this because I pictured her like screamed like
I pictured the end of Texast Chansaw massacre. Yeah, or

(05:19):
she's screaming in insane yep. And it was nothing like that,
and it was almost worse.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I went to watch it. I was I was gonna
watch it with the sound off because I knew that
part would be bad. And the first shot is she's
fully dressed. She's got a chain around her neck, right
like there's a collar around her deck and then a chain.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
She's laying on a mattress, shitty mattress.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
But it looked so weird. She looked like she was
kind of frozen, like she was so scared.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
And how much she'd been in there four months. I'm
not sure Anne had seen before she went in her
boyfriend shot shot and.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Kitta death yeah, and had probably been attack. Yeah, repeatedly. Yes.
And the second it started, I was like, no, I'm
not watching this. I just what for Like, I'm glad
she's rescued, that's great. I want her to get better.
I want her to be strong, all positive vibes. I
don't need to watch that moment of horror.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
I felt bad, but I but I did watch. I
felt bad watching it, but I watched it. I think
what was so interesting to me is how calm she was.
And it kind of hit home of that thing of
everyone always saying you don't know what you're going to
be like, and U what is it a crisis?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
So they're like whenever someone gets killed and they're like,
he acted like so calm, and it's like you don't
ever know what it's going to be like for someone,
and this was like the perfect or like a traumatic event.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
This is the perfect example of that to me. And
she was like immediately like, I've been locked up in
here by Todd Coleheap for this many months.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
He shot and killed my boyfriend. Like she was just like,
here's the information in case I can't.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Get it to you later. Yes, it was, Yeah, it
was amazing. I also think I read in an article
that the cops said to her, uh like something like
where's your buddy or do you know where your buddy is?
Which is her boyfriend, I was murdered, which I just
hated that. I don't know why and maybe the phrasing
sounded differently and I don't I'm just judging the written word,

(07:20):
but I just hated that. It's like, she's not a child,
it's not her buddy, it's not a buddy system yeah
over here, but it's probably just him trying to be like, yeah,
I'm your friend, distancing Okay, yeah, like low key I
like to be judging.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Oh, let's see before we get into that, I wanted
to I wanted to plug the animating podcasts Twitter, which
I think is a new Twitter because it's not a
lot of followers yet. Yes that they I just they
go to animating podcasts on Twitter. There's one of our podcasts,
short little clip that just brought me so much joy

(07:59):
and happiness. It's so hilarious, so hilarious.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
It's amazingly done. First, especially as fast as we talk
and as like talking over like kind of overlapped. Yeah,
where that could not have been easy.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Even like they had my I went mmm, yes, I
just made a noise and it was this perfect It's
just this hilarious cartoon. Steven's in it, nar.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Walls are in it.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Spoiler alert.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's just like they took a clip from our podcast
of us speaking and made it animated.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
It was very exciting. It's a it was a real honor.
But it was also just like kind of cool, so talented,
and also I liked that they it started me talking
to you and pointing at you, which is so mean.
I don't know, and it looked just like us. It
did and Steven, oh my god. When it panned over

(08:47):
to Steven, like I laughed out loud that for it.
It was such a great job. So great job the
animating podcasts. They do it for other podcasts, go on
to their feed.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Fucking best.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
It's very cool, and thank you guys for picking us.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yes, even had a kitten named after him.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Congratulations.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think I cried a little bit.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
They found him in the backyard, right.

Speaker 5 (09:08):
I couldn't think of a higher yeah they Yeah, I
couldn't think of like a I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Like a huge compliment.

Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yeah, I mean it's just I don't know, Yeah, it
just means a lot. It's really cool.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
So the kitten's name is Stephen ray Morris.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Kitten's name is kitten Kitty Raymore, but they're calling it Morris,
which I just think is so perfect.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's very cute, Kitty Raymore.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
It's just so cute. It's a little tiny and it's
a little baby color. It's like tappy, not you Elvis.
It's like a tappy, like a striped like brown and gray. Oh,
it looks like my cat growing up.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Congratulations, Yeah, congratulations.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
That means we don't have to pay you this month, right, yep,
because that's right right about cat payments.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yes, going towards the cat.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's going towards the cat.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
My MoMA, okay, mo me dead and dear man.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
People have been asking and asking for us to please
talk about it. And today on on my uh car
ride over, somebody I checked my Twitter and somebody was like,
are you guys ever going to talk about it? And
in all caps, oh no, they said, have you guys?
So I bet they were asking a very polite way
of like did I miss it? Have you guys talked
about this yet? And just in all caps, I wrote,

(10:16):
not yet.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Let's never talk about it. Let's bring it up every time.
Let's move on right now, I just never, We'll bring
it up every episode.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
So rude, it's time. It's finally time, It's here. It
is Mommy Dead and DearS.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
It was good.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
I moved on. I finally, I finally watched it. I
was the I was the one hanging us up because
I didn't watch it for so long and I just
watched it like three hours ago. Really yeah, nice, I
caught up. It's I loved it. It's so good. It
was amazing. And it's funny because I thought after watching,

(10:52):
since I watched The Keepers first, I was like, well,
that's like a Netflix series. It's this you know, eight
part thing and whatever. Uh. I thought it was really
well done. And also I am now so fascinated with
Gypsy I do. It's like I don't. When they were
talking about the fact that she was raised by this

(11:13):
con woman manipulator and so that's all she knows. Can
you imagine so like her kind of top Like I
already am not the hugest fan of the baby voice,
and that kind of like the giggly baby voice, which
was forced to ye like her mother forced her to
have that personality and to have that kind of like
I'm just a little baby.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Well I'm not definitely an you'll vouch for this, not
a psychologist.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Okay, but wait are you a psychiatrist though?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, you want some pills? Yeah, adderall all around. But
I heard, you know, from someone a long time ago
that when when older adults women have that baby voice,
it's because they experienced trauma as a kid and never
got past it.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, so they sound the same as they did back then. Right,
that sounds cool, right, Yes, let's say say it's real.
Well I've heard the same thing.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Okay, yeah good? Uh yeah, man, she's being interviewed from prison.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, it's just crazy.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
I can't imagine what her inner life is like.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
And I wanted to be mad at that dad so bad.
But like the dad and the stepmom, but you like
you're only seeing it through I feel like if the
mom was still alive and she was putting in her
two cents, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I would have
moved seven states away. Yeah. Even the little clips that

(12:37):
they had of her were frightening. Yeah, like she is
a frightening creepy woman.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
But like, okay, the dad, while hot wasn't very smart,
so I feel like he was just manipulated and con
too clearly for sure, even though his her parents were like, yeah,
we hadn't like they were conned.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes. Well, and also when it's that you know that
she is either she has some personality disorder. I want,
I want, even though all I want to do is
say which one it is, I won't. Well, well, I mean,
if you have munchauss by proxy, which means you're willing
to hurt your child to get attention, socio het righting, dinging, all,

(13:19):
that's the one I know. But also maybe even maybe
even a psychopath. Yeah. Somebody tweeted and said psychopaths can't
feel anxiety, which would.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
I saw say that that was so cool?

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yes, because so they never get nervous, So no matter
what they do or who they're lying to or what
they're doing, they will never have that like you'll never
see the twitch.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
In their eye of like or then like burst out
into rate like because anxiety is nervousness. Yeah, and an
anticipation of a situation or anticipation of something happening. Yeah,
so thank god, I'm clearly not a fucking socio.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
What is it psychopath.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
It's yes, we know you, at least we know you're
not a psycho.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
I'm clearly based on my pharmaceutical history.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Uh, clearly on a psychopath. But I mean, yeah, the
idea because that like going through, because I kept going
when they would say and then she had this surgery,
It's like, how the fuck did it get to the
point where she's having surgery?

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Dude?

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Those doctors, yeah, those I mean, I don't I know
that they moved around a lot of doctors once they got.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Suspicious of it, and she's so manipulated, and they wanted
to believe her. Why would you not believe a sick child.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
But I feel like the first I feel like always
in a in a pediatrician's mind should be this could
possibly be.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
It has to be there. Everyone knows what it is.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
But she's inducing with medicine, right, so she's like, oh,
she has this thing. Then she's giving her medicine that's
giving her the reaction that's making clearly this woman is
smart and knows a little bit about medicine in some way.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
I mean, when they opened the medicine cabinet, oh no,
the medicine closet.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Closet also the pictures around the house, from around the
house where there's just like brand new Disney slippers everywhere where.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
It's like Disney thing was creepy as fuck.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Everything's pink and Disney and creepy. And so she's kind
of a hoarder. She's kind of like this, like put
on these slippers. It's just yeah, it's the creepiest.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
And then you're did you see there was a girl
on Twitter who was who like tagged us and was like,
I just realized that I have a photo of them
with them. It's one of the it's a girl who
listens she like worked for Ronald McDonald house or something. Oh,
that's right, And she's in a photo like a photo
op with them, Yeah, smiling, Yes, honey, you win.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
You won that. And also she thinks she has her
arm around an eight year old and the girl's fucking eighteen.
That's that part of it. Also, because Gypsy's eyes are
like a little close together and a little crossed. Yeah,
and her teeth like stuck straight out, which I'm sure
is from being poisoned.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Dollar they said, like the leukemia medication, we'll fuck like
make your teeth fall out of your fucking head.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
So she kind of has the look about her where
it's like something could be wrong. And then what mother
brings her baby in and is like, you know, oh,
Steven has it. What's her name, let's give her a
Briann is the one who sent us the picture, Bryan.
It's amazing. Also, when you look at this mother, you

(16:21):
look at a person who used to it. Like in
the beginning when they have her the pageant, she was like,
remember she was miss miss Favor Queen.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Or something that was weird to me too, where it's
like she clearly gave a big shit about the way
she looked. Yes, and it's almost like she had this
other project now and so she kind of let it go.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yes, she was living vicariously through her daughter's illness, so
she was eliciting that exact like she wanted pity sympathy.
She wanted like an emotional connection, but she didn't believe
she could have it the way she looked on her own.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Merit, Brian, If it's cool with you, we're going to
post this on Instagram. Stephen WII posts on Instagram because
you know, I fucking never will thank you.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's such a good picture.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
The other show that.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
I don't know if you've watched it, but I randomly
watched it, and you have to and everyone has, especially
if you're into fucking sociopaths, which who isn't the Bernie
maid Off? Oh Ventury with fucking Robert de Niro is
Burnning made Off Gore.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
It is so good.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Oh Okay, I know I'm obsessed with the Bernie made
Off case anyways, and I know it's not murder and
all this shit, but he's a sociopath and so it's
really interesting the way they kind.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Of show it's just such a tragic story.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
He might even be a psychopath too.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, and yeah, it's so good. Oh and then it's
what's her beautiful face as the wife?

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Uh, what's her name? Michelle five her?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh yeah, she's great.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Oh my god, it's it's really fucking good.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Everyone.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Oh, it's really good.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Cool. And that's it for me. That's it for me.
Let's get out of here, Bye bye.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
My Favorite Murder shirts dot com. I don't know, Uh,
how are you?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm good?

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Oh, we have Australia. We're going to Australia and New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Go to my favorite murder dot com slash Live and
we're playing it.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
We're playing, do we play? We're We're gonna mean Australia,
New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
We're coming down to see you down there, so excited?
Get your throw something on the barbie for me that
is not trimp. Oh right? You hate shrimp all seafood?

Speaker 3 (18:28):
Grill? Do they grill a lot?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
There? Are we? Are we making?

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Do they hate us?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Now? I think the barbie is the grill, right, so yes,
it seems like that's a thing of theirs. Okay, they're
like very beachy.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
I'm gonna eat so much food when we go there,
all right?

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh yeah, who goes? Should we should we talk about murder?

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, let's do it?

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Okay me Steven, it's all you all right?

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay? Ran?

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yes you love cults?

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Oh fuck? Yes? Yes?

Speaker 4 (18:56):
Or no?

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Should I lean all the way back and stick my
feet up in there and just listen up because this
is my favorite topic?

Speaker 3 (19:02):
A coffee girl?

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Actually, I found nay night Karen Karen Leaping found what
There was one cult that I wanted to do and
then I don't know why I never did it, but
then I was just like what or other?

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Because I'm not a big cult.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I mean, I love Jamestown obviously, Jonestown Jamestown, clearly, I'm
a big fan.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
I love James Jamestown.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Jamestown that's actually like a really nice little like retreat.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
It's a camp for children with issues.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
I believe Jamestown is like the first settlement in the colonies, right,
But I definitely could be wrong because I can't remember
high school at all, so I wasn't in no way
laughing at you for that part. But I do love
I love the old joke of I'm a huge fan
of this and then say that that's you always go

(19:55):
with them, you do it on purpose. I love it.
Listen when I get shit wrong. I think it's hilarious.
Jonestown is I love it too, obviously because it came
out of San Francisco. It's like when it can be
I mean, that's as a hometown. It's just so epic.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Just the amount of people who actually killed themselves is epic.
Like I looked up Heaven's Gate, which I thought was
really fascinating.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
That's a good one. It's just fucking cool.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Heaven's Gate is so crazy too, because it's so sinister
and yet dull. That's the weirdest part of that. It's
like we think we're going to go to a planet
or a spaceship or whatever. We like computers and we
want to be androgynists, and then we kill ourselves the end.
There's no blood, there's no.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
I think they killed some people, but Heaven's Gate. Yeah,
who like left the thing? Oh yeah, yeah, I'll have
to do it.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Sometimes.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I really want to do Waco because I think it's
way more complicated. I just I kind of don't want
to touch it because it's I think it's pretty fucking inflammatory.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, literally, like, oh that was no it is. You're right,
because I think the story everybody got initially it was
like these lunatics and then it was like place on fire,
and it's like, I don't think there was Yeah there
was children in there.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah, children in there. You weren't letting them come out.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, there's a lot to it. I think didn't last
podcast on the left do Awaco? I'm sure they didn't.
I'm sure they did it beautifully. Okay, anyhow, this is
the Fall Rivers cult murder. Who had never heard of it,
never heard of it? Okay.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
An hour outside of Boston, the town of Fall Rivers
Massachusetts got that one right. In the nineteen seventies, there
was a crazy fucking recession. They had the gas shortage.
You had to wait in line and what was it.
You can only get gas on certain days depending on
when your license plated and.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
What it was. So it was like odd days Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
I mean odd numbers Monday, whatever. I remember waiting in
line with my dad at the I believe it is
now a shell on Pedula Boulevard.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Uh what was gas and go or something?

Speaker 1 (22:05):
It was a something good. I can't I can't remember
what it was, but it was like we were out
in this like out in the different street waiting to
get into the gas station.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
I've done that at Costco before, but not yeah, think
of that. But everyone's broken out of a.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Job, yes, yes, pre Costco there's the idea of even
buying wholesale was like inane. Yeah, everyone was broke. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
So nineteen seventies, Uh, Fall River Rivers is hit super
fucking hard. Factories closed, buildings, abandoned, all that stuff. So
like Main Street is empty, which just led to a
crazy CD underground of drugs and sex working to flourish. Yeah.
So the first victim of the Fall River murders. Can

(22:52):
you Steen, can you look up if it's Fall River
or Fall Rivers. I don't want to get punched in
the face for this. Don't edit this out either. I
just want everyone to know that I'm crossing my eyes
and dotting my teas.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
I don't want to get punched in the face. We've
also gotten kind of intense over here.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
I know my murder.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
We've been threatened because we don't know state abbreviation, and
there are an answers are not enough. The Worcester people
have come after us.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
There's there's no esse. It's Fall River.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Okay, So everyone calmed down? Got this right because I've
written it both ways? Okay, the first victim of the
Fall River murders is say Fall Rivers or Falls River?

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Sorry?

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Sorry, fuck, you know what I'm gonna say both ways,
Falls Rivers murders.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
It gets sad now, so let's okay. Sorry, be cool.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Seventeen year old run away Duren Levec. She had escaped
her new Bedford Foster home and she got out of
there and went to Fall River and turned to sex
work to survive. Seventeen years old, She's and like so
fucking every story you hear about foster homes.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Obviously there are good foster parents out there and all
of yeah, blah blah blah. But man, oh man, Like
I have a friend who grew up in several foster homes,
and it's just like one horrible story after the other.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
It's just that thing of like, well, can you imagine
if working on the street in sex work is the
better alternative than living with your foster family. Yeah, that's
like that you can imagine with them must be like horrible.
Not that there aren't great foster parents out there. In fact,
I want to be one one day, But not in
the seventies.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
There wasn't.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Okay, she was.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
So her body is found on October thirteenth, nineteen seventy nine,
under the bleachers at the local high school.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Her wrists had been bound with fishing line, and she
had been stabbed in the head several times, and her
face what had been beaten so bad that she was unrecognizable. Then,
a month after she had been found, a man named
Andy Maltius goes to the Fall River Police station. He
wants to file a missing person's report for his girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Uh huh, they won't do it.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Ah, fucking there's a twist. Oh, a twenty two year
old sex worker. That's who she is, Barbara Riposa. He
tells her that he's scared for her safety and then
he starts to randomly mumble something about a Satanic cult
and he says he has information relating to the other
murder of Doreen Levec whoa. Yeah, so he is a

(25:35):
very mentally unstable creep. He's a pedophile, a sex sadist,
and a violent rapist. And when he's questioned by the police,
he told them that there was a Satanic cult operating
within the Fall River area and the sex worker community,
so that whole community of drug addicts and sex workers
Jesus Christ are fucking Satanist. And this is during the

(25:57):
Satanic panic, remember that, Yeah, which is like the stupidest thing.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
But then there were Satanists who.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Also it's a violent rapist reporting like, yeah, how bad
does it have to be? Once again, that's just crazy
where it's like I'm I'm the worst person, and I'm
going to go to the police because this is this bad.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
I'm so worried about my girlfriend and yeah, so okay.
Then Karen Marsden she's a twenty year old single mother.
She's a drug addict, teenage runaway. It was a teenage runaway.
She's also working as a sex worker. She comes forward
because she's afraid for her life. She tells the police
at the local pimp Carl Drew was the ringleader of

(26:39):
this satanic cult and that he was responsible for the murders,
the murder.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Excuse me.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
She felt that she knew too much and was too
inside the close knit circle of the satanic group to
remain safe.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
So she's fucking terrified.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
The police offer her protective custody for her cooperation, but.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
She denied it. She didn't want it. Uh oh, who
knows why. I mean, I'm sure she doesn't trust the cops,
and she's a drug addict. You don't make the best
fucking decisions right when you're on drugs. And also if
you're trying to do drugs, you don't want to cop
around him, right, protecting you? Right, You're like, I just
need to get high.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So Drew.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Let's talk about Carl Drew, the woman, the man she
fingered for the murder. Listen, look, listen, you guys said it,
I didn't you guys are gross.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Steven, play back that tape.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
This is a murder podcast, please, I know it all right.
Carl Drew twenty five years old. He's from New Hampshire.
He'd been raised on a small farm, and the story
is that he had a childhood of hard labor and
physical abuse.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
He told a.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Story later of his alcoholic father tying a rope around
his ankles and lowering him down a well to remove
a cluster of dead rats. Oh no, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Why face to face with that shit.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
And also fucking leave him there in the well.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
They'll just what's it called one things? They'll de great, Yeah,
totally leave him in the well.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
How about you pour some goddamn battery acid down that
well and your kid. Well.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
In addition, he lived on the farm, so he was
taught to butcher livestock, and he got the job of
cleaning the farm's slaughter pit. Again, send that kid in there, Dane.
He had a way through rotting carcasses in order to
separate the hides and hoofs for rendering, which you know,
all of that just smelled so horrific.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I mean, and you would smell like that for days,
for days. Well, this is this is like if I
were going with Paltrow and I was like, it was
hard for me too. I made bone broth recently. Stephen
cut that out.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Well, you have to you have to boil the marrow
bones for like forty eight hours and it just gets
the smell that is so horrific and not good.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, did the smell like linger? Oh? Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
So then when I ever, like I can't drink it
now because it's so disgusting, somebody else make your.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, you buy it.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
I know it's expensive, Gwyneth Paltrow, but you guys look
it up the gut issues durn broth.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's really good for you anyways, But.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Where was I?

Speaker 3 (29:19):
At fourteen? He runs away to Fall River.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
He eventually becomes a pimp and he's a Satanist and
he uses Satanism to.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Terrify the sex workers who worked for him.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, he had a felony record convictions for assault, weapons
possession and armed robbery.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
So he's a real great dude. He claims later to
be the son of Satan.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Okay, it's like, who knows did he? Did Satan have kids?

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Oh? I wonder, yeah I do too, Like did they change?
Did Satan change diapers.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
I mean that he wasn't a good father.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Was like she the wife woke up and he's like,
it's your.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Turn, it's your dune. And he's like no, yeah, I'm
sayan fucking Satan. Yeah I have to do it again. Yeah.
Uh the son of Satan.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, okay, come on, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
I mean most people claim to be Satan, right, isn't
that more of the thing. Yeah, okay, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
He makes the sex workers participate in his animal sacrifices
and tells them that the same thing would happen to
them if they disobeyed him.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
So he wasn't one of those nice pimps that are
Roman Talks or nice Satanists or nice Satanists. There are
nice ones. I mean they do some Satanists. That's fine.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
I mean whatever, Yeah, they're chilled out. Yeah. Uh. It
seems just like a tool to control people. It's just
using fear, like this is the thing you're scared of.
I'll use this symbol, yeah, and it'll control your behavior.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
And I'm on all the math, all the fucking like
fall River myth, which is probably not No, that's the
good stuff. Yeah, no offense to them. But so the
Fall River whole. They had like maybe up to ten members.
They're all associated with the Fall River sex trade. So
between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty they held a

(31:09):
bunch of ceremonies deep in the local woods, which sounds creepy.
And during the sciences, this guy, Carl Drew would speak
in different a different voice and in different languages, and
everyone who had been there was like, no, he wasn't gibberish.
He was speaking another language, wow, which I was like,
all right, Um.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Did he know Spanish? Yeah? Had he gotten the Rosetta stone?
Was CD?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
I know pig Latin. That doesn't mean I'm speaking in
another language. And we you and I speak in a
different voice whenever we do fucking ads.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
That's right, So you can do lots of voices.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
I'm not in coloring.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Not impressed with this, Carl, Carl, Carl, your fucking.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Nerd, Carl.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
He's still alive. SOPs. Okay, Steven edited that out for.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Sure, don't edit this whole story up. I forgot to
mention he's still alive.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Okay. First the rituals.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Rituals involved sex and drugs, but then things took a
turn when he was like human sacrifice time.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Oh no, no, okay.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
The second victim is Barbara Raposa, who's twenty two, another
known sex worker.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Her body's discovered. But oh, here's horrible.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
A man is out walking his dog in the forest.
It's a beagle picture it. Yes, His dog starts sniffing
around and starts to kind of chomp on something, and
he thinks it's just an animal because she was so
unrecognizable that he didn't realize it was a human.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Was the full body or just a part?

Speaker 2 (32:38):
I think it was a full body? Oh man, but
in the bushes, you know what I mean. Yes, So
that poor dog and that poor man. Do you think
that dog he ever let the dog like him on
the face again?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
I think he probably put that dog down.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, once I get a taste.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
It's so dark, I know. But it really is. Not
to be hacky and say the same thing we say
all the time. But it's like what I understand. There's
a benefit of going into the forest if you have
a large group and you're there to really hike it
up and be a team or whatever. Walking alone with
your dog in the forest, I feel like there's only
a couple things that can happen to you, and they're bad.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Like your dog doesn't care if it's on the forest
or a sidewalk of a fucking suburb, right, Why it's
like not that your dog is more stoked when he
goes into the why are you?

Speaker 1 (33:24):
And then at the same time, I have to be
totally honest and say I am jealous of that guy
because because he gets to do that, because it's just
that moment must must have been horrifying, and like, just
it's just a seminal moment. It's a watershed moment. I wonder,
I wonder, I don't ever want to know. I wonder.
Here's what I wonder. Are seminal and watershed synonyms or

(33:47):
did I just say two different things.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Seminal is like yeah, no, but they're yeah, they're like explaining, right,
you just said it in better words than defining.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Sometimes I just pick a word out and say it's
whatever my brain off.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
She sounded like the saurus. Jesus, I can't say that
the saurus.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Thank you, You're welcome. Um.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Okay, she had been so Barbara Roposa, she's been badly Okay,
she's got her hands bound, she's face down, she's on
a flat stone that resembles an altar. She had been
so badly beaten again that her skull was crushed. There
were stab wounds to her head again. And yeah. So

(34:33):
then on February nineteen eighty, the cult's third victim was killed.
This is twenty two year old who you may remember,
her name, Karen Marston. Oh, no, woman who had gone
in because she was afraid.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
So, oh no, I'm sorry. I'd immediately assumed it was
the missing woman. But this is the one who fucking
showed up herself. Yeah, the one who went in.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
She's twenty year old, single mother, drug addict, and she
feared for her life. She's going it, came in and
said no, thank you to victims Protection.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
So she is twenty she's the one who comes forward.
So she had been present, it turns out at that
first murder of Doreen Levek, So she had been there.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
So that's how she was why she was afraid. Yeah,
and it terrified her so much that that's why she
went to the police and Carl what's his last name
Drew found out about it.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
So her head.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Was being in with a rock.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Then, according to the story, Drew then broke her neck
with his bare hands. And according to someone else who
had been there, was a cult devotee, devotee, devote devott.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
She was devoted and sex worker. She's seventeen year old
Robin Murphy and she was there and according to her,
Drew handed her a knife and ordered her to slit
Karen's throat. Whoa so then he he cut an X
into her into Karen's chest. Do you want me to

(36:09):
say her last name instead of Karen? No, it's probably okay.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
And he used the blood to put an X on
this Robin Murphy's forehead. Then they played around with this head.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Oh yeah. Drugs, drugs, drugs, That's all I can think.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Can you imagine not even just the detachment of being
able to kill someone, but then to have a human
head in front of you and not like I feel
like I would pass the fuck out seeing why she would?

Speaker 1 (36:39):
You would be in total shock. I mean you would
be that it's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Well clearly, like if I see someone get hurt, I
am empathetic because I understand what getting hurt is and
I see it and I can identify with it.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
So like you're really underlining this point that you're not
a sociopath.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
So I'm a really good right now. Yeah, I'll fucking
yon too.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
See, in case you're a new listener, that's the test
of a sociopath. Of you yawn and the person doesn't
yon too, then they don't have empathy for you.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
It's just this automatic response. No, I mean I but
I deserve saying it's just so gross even that we're
talking about it, much less to witness it be a
part of them take part in it. It doesn't. It's
just defies logic and.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
The fact that not only is there one person who
does it, but you'll know someone else who's cool with
it too, Like the fact that there can be two people,
because I feel like that'd be one in a million people. Yeah,
but I guess they all live in Fall River.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Okay, uh so only wait, telegram just arrived.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
It's everyone who lives in Full River. They're super pissed
at us, but they're suing us. It's for defamation.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
They said Twitter's not fast enough. We needed to let
you know how livid we are.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
It's actually it's a clown and it's a singing telegram.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
But he's got a bloody X on his head. Don't
worry about it.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
So only her school was ever found. And the reason
they found it is because she had had X rays
of her head, which I'm like she had They said
she had sinus issues.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Oh so there was something to compare it, like they
knew who it was. Yeah, got it? Which is crazy.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
So finally a break comes in the case.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
They the police had wiretapped the phone hoping that they
would find Carl Drew speaking about the murders.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
But it's not him.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
It's the seventeen year old girlfriend, Robert Murphy, and she
is a sex worker and aspiring pimp. So she's talking
and it turns out that she was saying that twenty
five year old Drew was not the ringleader, but that
she was that rob seventeen year old Robin Murphy is huh.

(38:47):
Robin Murphy contacts police and she offers to testify against
Andy Maltius. Remember the guy he went in because he
was the girlfriend. Yeah, as a witness to the murder
of girlfriend. So he killed his girlfriend and then went
looking for her is her story?

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Oh? Like, so it was a setup. Basically he was
trying to make himself look innocent.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Maybe unless Robbin's lying? Okay, She also claimed to be
present for the Dorian Levech murder, and she agreed to
turn state's evidence in that case. She was like, I'll
tell you everything. In exchange, she gets a deal where
she's placed in protective protective custody and she gets immunity
in both murders. She was there for them.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
And yeah, then they don't know if she was involved.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, I mean that seems like a dream, Like that's
basically her going, here's what I wish.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, and they're like, granted. Yeah. So the story she
gave police was that Andy Maltius killed his girlfriend, Barbara
Riposa because he found out that.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
She had been cheating on him with another man.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
So he goes to trial first and base mostly on
the testimony of Robin Murphy. In January nineteen eighty one,
he's convicted of the first degree murder of Barbara Roposa,
given a life sentence without the possibility of parole, and
he's later considered to be a suspect in a few
other unsolved area rapes dating back to the early seventies,
but no additional charges are ever brought against him. He

(40:19):
and then later he's found to be clinically insane but
they still didn't overturn the verdict or give him a
new trial or anything like that. But he ended up
dying of cancer in nineteen ninety eight. Wow in prison.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
So then Robin is allowed to plead to the lesser
charge of second degree murder in exchange for her testimony
against everyone, and they keep the immunity deal that she
had going. And she received no additional charges in connection
with either of the other two murders, so she's only
getting charged with the murder the last murder of Karen.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
So basically it was like, whoever runs forward first and
says I will snitch on everybody else else is the
person who gets the deal.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I think so, And like, I'll hear about plea deals
where they're like they agree that you know, the attorneys whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
They agree to the terms of taking a plea only
if the information matches up. Yeah, So if they end
up they would agree to them if this thing is
the case, is this thing is true, which we should
totally have guy back on and ask him about yeah,
because that seems much more you know, uh, what's the word?
Makes much more sense than just being like okay, anything

(41:30):
you say, no no.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
I think isn't that always the rule that the thing
that you say has to then basically solve the crime
and be the thing that convics the person. Right, Yeah,
I'm pretty sure that. Yeah, we should definitely.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Have guy back or like saying that their involvement is
is this that has to be true? You know what
I mean, like, I'll testify, here's my involvement. But if
later it turns out that that involvement isn't true, that
you lie about it, I don't know what's that guy.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
No, it wouldn't be that because that's like then they
would be planning for the person, right, so live which.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
They could find anything. Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Okay, I mean, what a boring part of a show
where we were like, we don't know anything about the law,
but let's say what we feel.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Definitely, let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
It's me going, I don't think it's that, but not
based on anything other than my just my gut.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
I didn't go to law school. Ye, but I bet
there's a really simple explanation to this.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Let's keep talking.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Listen. I'm a psychiatrist, I'm a lawyer, I'm alogist, I'm
a psychologist.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
It's great.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
I'm a cat.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
I'm also a cat.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
So this chick Murphy received or her name what was
her name again, Robin Murphy's. She received a life sentence
with the possibility of parole. She spends twenty four years
in jail, in prison, and then she's released on June tenth,
two thousand and four. But thank god, she violated her
parole and she goes to prison seven years yars later.

(43:01):
She's currently serving her time in a maximum security prison
in Massachusetts, and in eighty four she recants the entire story.
She says, none of it is true. She's trying to
get a new trial. It doesn't happen. She's eligible for
parole in March twenty seventeen, which, if you look at
your calendar, was like two months ago, and they're reviewing
it right now.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Hold on, So, in saying that the whole story is
not true, is what she's saying that the Satanic cult
part's not true? Or she's saying that her part in
the murder isn't true.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I think what she's saying is that the people she
is fingering for the crime didn't actually do it.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Wow, she doesn't. It's not true, got it.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
I don't know exactly if she gave an alternative story.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I couldn't find anything on that.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
So Carl Davis, who's a different Carl who's involved with
the slaughter, with the murder of Karen Marsden, he doesn't
ever stand trial for it, and the following year he's
arrested for assaulting a woman named Sonny Sparta, and according
to the statement by Carl Drew the other guy on

(44:06):
his wait for it, personal blog, he's still in prison.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
He's a blogger.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, it's said that Carl Davis is beat up this
three month pregnant woman Sonny stabbed her in the head
with a knife, and only because she had information implicating him,
Carl Davis and the woman Robin, and that Carl Drew
had nothing to do with it, but she was too scared.
This woman Sonny was then too scared to testify.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Jesus, that just keeps happening with these people.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, so there's some really convoluted, crazy shit going on.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
It kind of makes sense though that they wouldn't be
involving this truly right satanic, scariest person.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Well he's if he's not in prison.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, right, it's almost like that usually happens, where they
manipulate everybody into doing what they want, yeah, the whole time,
and then everyone else takes a fall.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Well, they're proving that. It's proven a couple of times
that they kill people who snitch. Yes, and if Carl
Drew is the killer, then they could talk.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
But because he's locked up, But if the dude who
actually did it isn't locked up, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Listen, that really seemed like it was going somewhere.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
It was you get it, Like I don't even need
to finish it, you know what I mean, Like it's
just I'm just talking. So but okay, so for that stabbing,
he serves seven years and he's now free. This guy
Carl Davis. Fuck okay, getting to these.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
There's a bunch of bad Carls in that aread Carl.
It's so many bad Carls, all right.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
So the case of the first chick, Dauren Levec, never
goes to trial because the district attorney is like, it
would cost too much and it would be futile because
he already has Carl Drew already has a life sentence.
So what's the point. It's called, uh justice? They coverk
out the word all the charges against Okay anyways, Okay,

(46:08):
so people still think that the actual ringleader and the
murder isn't Carl Drew, but is Robin.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
This seventeen year olds want to be pimp girl.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Well, according to according to this blog that he writes,
which I read it and it's actually it's pretty it's good.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
It's like he's he is pissed off about his trial.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
He like goes down the breakthrough of what happened and
you know, all this like prosecutor intimidation to the witnesses
to you know, testify against him, and he says that
her IQ was one hundred and thirty eight. She was
incredibly smart and manipulative, and the attorneys don't want to

(46:50):
admit that they got fooled by a seventeen year old girl.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Apparently, just real quick, So do you think Robin and
Carl like went to the IQ place one day together
and just like took some tests and we're like, oh
my god, what'd you get? Did you get? Would you get?

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Well, they just both went online and did one of
those like take a Q test. They have to put
your email dress in.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
So it's so annoying to get it, you know those
and like you've gotten to the end of it and
you don't want to give them your email address, but like.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
But you have to to find out you went. You
took ten minutes out of here, Yeah, when you were
supposed to be working. I just love that he had
her IQ right there on hand.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Well, he said that they gave it to her when
she went into prison, which I don't think they do.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
How do he know that?

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Good question?

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Just because he has a blog, Let's not give him
all this credit all of a sudden, he's the greatest.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
I think every blogger is the greatest. You know that
about me.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
The minute I fanayone has a blog, I'm like, you
relate because you're also a blogger. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Oh they must be really smart.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh my god, my kindred, my kind my kind like people.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
So they think that Robin acted alone or really it's
a mastermind, and that Drew is actually totally innocent. But
he's convicted of first degree murder and for Karen's murder
and serving a life in Massachusetts no possibility of parole then,
So Robin ends up recanting her statement. She claims she
lied about the whole thing and that the Carl Drew

(48:10):
wasn't even involved. She says, he wasn't even involved. And
three witnesses come forward who had testified against him, that
they had been pressured by the prosecution to testify and
that they actually wanted to testify for him, but they
got too scared and didn't.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
And so sorry. So then according to that story, it's
the other bad.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Carl, it's it's Rob. It's a mystery, maybe Robin and
this other Carl.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Who know.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
I don't know exactly, but Robin is definitely a mastermind
in it. And so who knows who else she worked with.
But that's kind of an amazing movie right there.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, you get it. One of those fanning girls cast them.
It's like Dakota who else is there? There's Dakota L,
there's l I'm sure there's others so talented back at
the house.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah, they have to lose a lot of weight so
they get an Academy Award for it? Is that what
they get?

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Emmy? Uh yeah, if we make if we make it
for a TV, if it's an HBO thing, Okay, then
I would definitely be an Emmy definitely. But that idea
is just like amazing. Who done it who done it?
Was it a seventeen year old running the whole show.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Or was it the fucking twenty five year old pimp
who had a wade through carcasses of animals?

Speaker 1 (49:26):
See really? Also, it's just so uh it's fascinating. I
would love to know how many people were like at
those Was it just as straight up we took her
into the woods and killed her or did they go
ceremonial and was it this big creepy thing? Like it
just seems like now I really want to know what
the actual story is. Was it like were they taking
advantage of Satanic panic and like putting it all under that? Yeah?

(49:48):
Like what the hell?

Speaker 3 (49:49):
I just can't imagine someone really believing in Satan, Like
he never oh wow, hello, he never answered to.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
The Catholic Church.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
That'd be like, it's not like you can believe in
it because he talks to you. But then I'm like, oh,
that's what people think about Jesus, Thank God.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
I mean in a lot of things. Yeah, porns, blogs.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Blog, Look, he's talking to me. Well, the happy ending
of the story is that he has a blog.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
And anyone can, and that blogs forgive you no matter
what you do.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Listen, go to blog spot to start yourself at your.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
What about angel Fire? Isn't that one? Wasn't that a
blog spot?

Speaker 3 (50:31):
What is even angel fire?

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Yeah? It was.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
It was a blog website. It's it's shut down, but
it's all archives so you can still find your old
But what is websites?

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Just like at you it's a hosting program. Yea like blogspot.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
That was the first. My friend had a blog where
she would just rant and talk full shit constantly and
it was like bloody bla angelfire dot net or whatever
it was. And I just thought it was I was
so new and it was the beginning of the Internet
that I thought angel fire was like where all blogs
took place. I was like, oh, angel Fire, that's amazing.
And then later on when that didn't exist anymore, I

(51:07):
was like, oh, there's blogs other places like Yeah, I
just thought it was that one spot. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Well, and then blogs spot became that one spot.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
M hmm. They got a little smarter, then they went
secular with it. They knew it don't involve angels in
this fire sounds satanic. Yeah, that whole concept is a
bit much. It's a bit.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Beyond, like, we don't even believe that, and we believe
in blogs. They're not true. What if blogs were emit,
like blogs were like you know, Curent's like, I don't
think they ever existed, and someone's like, yes they did.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
There's proof. I could print it up, and they're like, yeah, right, yeah,
I believe in blogs.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Oh my wowg is fucking gone from the internet. So
nobody tried to find it, by the way, oh you
took you erased it. I took it down because I
read it recently and I was like, oh my god.
I was like, oh my Gokay.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Was it just like your diary, like your daily thoughts? No,
just give me, just give me a taste of it, Okay.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
I like, I would write really lovely, flourishy, gorgeous tales of.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
You know, my life.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
But then one of them was about my car getting
broken into. Oh were you there, Stephen?

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Now?

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, it was just like it was just you there
in the nineties with me, Stephen, Yeah, Stephen, you were there.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
My blog I met like, I did a reading recently
on read one because it was so stupid.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
But oh oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
It was like a twenty seven year old girl who
wanted to sound fucking what's the word worldly, yeah, yeah,
you know, yeah, stop.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
At twenty seven year olds. I mean, that's that's what
twenty seven year olds were built for.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
That's what the blogs were built for. Yeah, twenty seven
year old. Yeah, amazing. Enough about me, let's talk about
murder cat.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
I wish, I guess, I bet you. That's such a
frustrating part of being a part of the legal system
is so much lying. Well, you just are like, we
have the old thing set up, and you promised me
it was the truth. Now we're going with this story.
Yeah and no, and then four years later you're like,
I lied about all of it. It's like like.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
We went off of that entire thing. That'd be great
if like people stop lying.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
I mean if they found like in the same way
as you can get like a fingerprint analyzed, you can
somehow accurately get a lie detector, like a lie detector
light detector test. It's not those don't work, though they're
fifty to fifty.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
I wonder if people if they came up with, isn't
there a truth? Isn't there like a truth.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Serum powder, Well, they can inject on a truth serum,
but doesn't necessarily mean you will tell the truth.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
And if you're a lot about that, what's that? I
don't know a lot about that.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
About truth serum, I think it's like a it chills
you out. You know what? Why am I talking right now?
If you tell us doctors and chemists, I'll tell you.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
I want to say it's sodium all but I think
that's poison.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
No, no, I think it is sodium pentothal. Did I
get that, Stephen? Do you think it is? Oh?

Speaker 3 (54:06):
My god, I'm so impressed with myself.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
I got that.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
I think you're right too. Yeah, I'm fucking so.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
I think there are people who can beat it, who
can game it when they know it's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Well, when you don't care about anything, you can't do it.
You can trick it.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Also, I think it's I think the reason they don't
use it more is because they can't just shoot up
whoever they want.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, I think I was going to say that it
must be against rights somehow.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
I bet it is. I don't stop lying. I mean,
I'll start with me. What is it, Stephen?

Speaker 5 (54:43):
Sodium pentathol is used to induce comas, anesthesia, euthanasia.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Oh nope, that's the euthanasia that's a truth serum.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
There we go.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
Yeah, used in some places as a truth serum to
weaken the resolve of a subject and make them more
compliant to pressure.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
It's called wine. Yeah exactly. I was gonna say, six
wine coolers, Watermelon Wave, Bartles and James Strawberry strawberry.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
What's that one wine that's like strawberry flavored wine?

Speaker 1 (55:21):
What is it called?

Speaker 3 (55:22):
It's like super cheap and shitty blue nun No, I
don't know what that is, but.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
You'd know it. Uh, thunderbird, night train, night train. No,
someone's yelling at at home. Yeah, anyways, someone's drinking it
at home.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Who gotta hope?

Speaker 1 (55:40):
You gotta hope? Okay, mine this week I picked because
I like doing these ones where I can remember hearing
about it or some kind of love those right, some
kind of thing where you're like, wait, what was that?

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Oh yeah, I get to talk about this.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
So I had this. I can't remember whatever I was
watching or thinking of, but it was like, because this
isn't there. There was a murder in it, but it
was more of a hostage crisis. So this is let's
scare the shit out of me. The man's name was
Murdad dash D and it was the nineteen ninety Berkeley
hostage crisis. Do you remember this? No, nineteen ninety you

(56:18):
were blogging? No, you were too young. Back then? Were
you was just called diarying then back then?

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Were I was ten in nineteen ninety, So no, I
haven't even know how to write yet.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Can you write a ten You could write cursif I bet? Yeah,
I bet you could write a nice paragraph about like
what I did this summer, Yes, with some good ten
dollar words in it. Yeah. Okay, So I was twenty
so I was in San Francisco. Oh so you were
fucking there for it? You know? Sorry, I was. I
was in Sacramento. It could have been you, I mo. Yeah,

(56:51):
I moved to San Francisco when I was twenty two.
So I was Sacramento. So I wasn't like right across
the bay, but we were close by. And it was
on the news. This is this was so crazy because
they when this happened and the news found out about it,
they went live on the news. Okay, so this is
basically what happened. It's September twenty sixth, nineteen ninety, just

(57:13):
before midnight, and a twenty nine year old Iranian male
named Murdaud Dashti and his friend decided to go to
Henry's Public House, which is in the lobby of the
Durant Hotel one block south of the Berkeley Campus in Berkeley, California,

(57:34):
across right across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco. So
Murdaud Dashti had told his friend he had he went
to Berkeley four years earlier. He had graduated with an
engineering degree, and he didn't get a job like he had.
He came from Iran and obviously was super smart and

(57:57):
got into Berkeley which no and I knew do no,
and got this engineering degree. But then when he got
out couldn't get a job. That was like he didn't
get an engineering job, or he had these dreams of
like not in America and now I'm gonna get a
really awesome, high paying job. So we couldn't get it.
And he was he like started doing handyman work and

(58:21):
it was, you know, very much beneath him, but he
needed the money. He had also gotten married. I think
it was the year before he graduated, and his marriage
like kind of crumbled, and the more he wasn't finding
a job and the less money they had and stuff.
The more controlling he was with his wife, and his

(58:42):
wife was like see you later.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Money issues, Yes, bad news.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
So he ends up in this apartment alone and he
was later on the police found out that he was schizophrenic.
He was a paranoid schidsphron. So he had started to
hear voices, but he wasn't He didn't deal with it
in any way. He just was listening to the voices,
fighting with the voices. He was living in that world.

(59:07):
But he didn't ever get any kind of mental help
or medical help for that issue. So that night, on
December twenty sixth, he tells his friend he wants to
go to a bar where a lot of blonde white
women will be and so his friend decides that they
should go to Henry's. And Henry's was this It was

(59:28):
really close to the campus, so a lot of shorty
girls and frat boys would go there and it was
just like this super popular bar. Sounds like a blast. Yeah,
oh sorry. A lot of this I got from a
show that I found online. That's an ID channel show
called Deadly Demands, season one, episode five, and they had

(59:52):
actually in this show a lot of this live footage
that was from KPIX. Now, I don't know if you
remember Channel five in San Francisco in the day area.
KPIX is the local news local TV channel. You know
their jingle kpix No I could. Channel two was the
one we watched the most, which was KTVU. They had

(01:00:13):
a whole song about yeah, there was only one two?
Was there? Like slow, yeoh, isn't that good? There was
only one two? There was only one two? Fucking love that.
And in the late seventies early eighties, when the San
Francisco Giants only ever lost, like they never won a
game ever, there was a like a fifteen second promo
that they would run during the cartoon time and like

(01:00:34):
after school, like four o'clock or whatever, and it was
just like the most janky early eighties graphics of a
baseball player swinging about, but the as he swung, it
was just like flash animation where the colors changed into
like a like a brown and yellow rainbow, so it'd
be he would swing and it'd be like brown light, brown, tan,

(01:00:56):
yellow orange or whatever. And the song that played underneath
it was come on, Giants, hang in there. Oh my god,
how fucking pathetic is that? That's our new thing. Come
when we're feeling low, hang in there, Come on, jorjia,
hang in there. We used to My sister and I

(01:01:16):
used to sing it to each other all the time.
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
One because it's fucking hilarious and horrible. Two because you're singing.
You have a great voice, so it's like it's good,
like if I tried it wouldn't be good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Well, also it's and it's so tacky, it's so ugly.
Everything's brown.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
It doesn't it's brown, And it's the kind of thing
like you would never see it these days because it's like, no,
don't don't cheer on your losing team by basically going
don't quit baseball.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Yeah you'll get there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Yeah, Like, don't walk up the field, don't walk it up.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
So anc I told you it's gonna be terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Come okay, So props to k TVU, but this was KPI,
totally different channel. So they're in Henry's. They call last call.
They're the Dash and his friend are sitting in the
corner and at one point, uh, his friend goes and

(01:02:11):
goes up to get drinks and Dosh goes, hold on,
hold on a second, I'm gonna go out to the car.
He goes out to the car, and he comes back
with a briefcase. Yeah, and uh so last call has called.
Everyone's kind of like they're like wrapping it up. And
at one point Dashi opens the briefcase, pulls out a

(01:02:33):
semi automatic and just starts shooting it into the air
in the bar. In the bar, So there are sixty
seven people in the bar, holy shit at the time,
and half of them run out. Then I think they
said like eight people were shot in that time. So

(01:02:55):
and then everybody else hits the floor and kind of
when this dust settles, he says, he yells to everybody,
if you're hurt, you can leave right now. So weird. Yes,
So there are like one woman in this and deadly,
deadly demands. She she got shot eight times and she
didn't even know it. She was just like sitting there,

(01:03:18):
what the fuck? Yes, And because it's an automatic weapon,
because we fucking need automatic weapons in this country so
fucking badly assault rifles. Everyone had one and this guy
had many. He Yeah, she got shot eight times and
didn't She said, I felt uncomfortable and then I touched
my side and I was bleeding. So she got up

(01:03:38):
and walked out. What the fuck? She's totally probably just
making me feel much better though about what the pain
that you probably I always like think about the pain
when you get shot. Yeah, well you I think you
go into shock like she would go into shock because
she didn't get shot. Yeah, in any she got luckily
was like her side. So she got to leave. And

(01:04:00):
then there was a guy that he shot a guy
right in the chest. A student and two other guys went,
can we please bring him outside because he can't go
out by outside by himself, And she said, you can,
but you have to come back. So they all go outside.
I seriously doubt they came back. Can you imagine, You're like,
I'm a man of my word. I'm here, I'm here

(01:04:20):
a gun So okay. So there's a cop, a patrol
officer that's walking up and down the street and he's
like half a block away. He hears gunshots. He thinks
it might be firecrackers, but he goes to look and
see what it is, and as he gets closer he
sees the people running out of the pub. He realizes

(01:04:43):
then it's gunfire and immediately calls it in. So there's
cops and ambulances and everybody on the scene really quickly,
because luckily someone was right there like the second it
went off. So there's they have the barsar around, did
you know? Very quickly the swat team is on site.

(01:05:04):
And so this is the amazing part. He so the
hurt people leave, he's got everybody else, and he immediately
makes everyone that's still in the bar line up against
the windows that face the There's like a wall of
windows that face the street, and he's like, everybody line
up against the windows. Therefore they're blocking the windows from

(01:05:28):
the cops can't see and they can't shoot into the windows.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
How scary for those people. Yeah, where's his friend right now?
His friend ran out?

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Okay, yeah, and his friend ran out random The cops said,
his name is this He has these guns, like I
didn't know, and he lives up the street. So then
immediately the cops get a search warrant and they go
into his apartment and they start discovering all the things
that they eventually find out about him, which is he
went to Berkeley. He's basically now living almost in Squalor, divorced,

(01:05:57):
and he's written all these letters to the police, to
the government, basically saying, you owe me sixteen trillion dollars
for the psychic services that I've been providing for you.
So he believes that the voices in his head are
the American government telling him what to do, and he

(01:06:18):
has been listening and obeying and now believes he should
be compensated for what he's been doing. And it's so insane.
In the show, they show two hours before he takes
this bar hostage, he had called nine one one in
Berkeley and he's taught, and this woman is so calm

(01:06:39):
and trying to get the information out of him. But
he's basically saying, in a very calm and rational sounding voice,
he's saying, Okay, so I just need the police and
the government to pay me the money they owe me God,
because they have been used, you know, my telepathy. They've

(01:06:59):
been using it, and they said they were going to
pay me, and I need that money. Did you listen
to it? Yes? I didn't really. I thought it was
a reenactment, and then realized because everyone's so chill, Yes
they were. The woman was so professional and he was
so calm that it was not a reenact Wow, And
it was. It's the kind of thing where if I
was a dispatcher, I don't know if I would have

(01:07:21):
stayed on the phone with him as long as she did,
because it sounded like bullshit. It went from reasonable to
super crazy, where you'd go, oh, this is a person
playing a prank. It doesn't sound like a crazy person
at all. He sounds very reasonable and like he just
needs his money. And what he starts telling her is
he needs money because he just got this letter saying
he has to go to jail. And what had happened?

(01:07:42):
What happened was he uh, I think it was like
three weeks before. I can't remember the timeline exactly, but
he because he had didn't have a job, because his
wife left him, because he didn't have any money, he
had taken his car, driven into San Francisco and just
smashed a bunch of really nice cars with his car,

(01:08:02):
and he got arrested for it. He got caught after
having done it. He basically probably went to like Pacific
Heights or knob Hill or some were crazy fancy and
just like smashed all the Mercedes, like parked on one street.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
I mean, wouldn't who wouldn't want to that?

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
It felt pretty great, probably as revenge but then here's
the problem. They arrest him, They bring him into the
police station and they do a strip search on him,
and for him already being in the mental state that
he's in and also being a practicing Muslim, where being naked, like,
they made him strip naked and it was incredibly obviously.

(01:08:39):
I mean, it'd be demeaning to anybody, it doesn't matter
what your religion is. But the way they were saying
it in this story, it made it down like it
was in a religious way, not very inappropriate for familiar
or someone. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Probably now there's like, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
So so that was part of it. So when he
one of his first demands, so what he does is,
once he gets everyone lined up against the wall he
first asked, he makes all the blonde pretty. He says,
all the pretty blonde women in the bar come and
stand in the center. So they do, and he makes

(01:09:17):
them strip. And then there's no, it's not in any
of the articles I found. It wasn't. It was definitely
not in deadly demand. But I heard about this like
it was things that people weren't that they weren't putting
in the newspaper. But basically, after making these women strip,
he made the men in the bar basically sexually assault

(01:09:40):
the women. Oh my god, but no one has that
was in this website. I found that it's like a
police report thing that they do not go into detail
at all. And of course a lot of the men
tried to block his view, so they were pretending to
be doing something that they weren't actually doing. But then
apparently there were things where he was he made like them,

(01:10:03):
But I don't know what it is. It's the creepiest
part of the story, and it's the part that I
remember people talking about the most where it's like what
it just person to person? So who knows the urban
legend element of it because it's so salacious and gross.
But also the thing that I heard was that he

(01:10:25):
made somebody assault someone else with a carrot, and he
talked about bugs bunny a lot like it was this
like one of his fixations. But that to me, that
sounds like it could just as much be an urban
legend as it could be anything else. That's like totally
sounds like crazy carrot in barlately, right, or did he

(01:10:47):
bring it with him because it was part of his
like weird plan to humiliate Like what would humiliate a
person the most. I don't know any way you slice it,
it's hideous and disgusting, but they barely touch on it
in the TV show version. It's just the women standing there,
stripping and stripped and crying and like being humiliated that way.

(01:11:09):
So then the next thing he says is he makes
a guy take a barstool and break out a window.
And then the guy he sits down against the wall,
is squatted down, and he just makes this guy be
his voice for him. So the guy and you see this.
They have news footage of this, because this is they
went live on kpix almost immediately, and you see the

(01:11:31):
guy who's like a frat boy from the eighties. He's
got like, you know, like the blonde hair parted on
the side, and the white shirt or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
He looks scared is he nerves.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Too far away to see that. You can kind of
just see that. It's like an eighties outfit. And he's
basically saying they want he wants. He wants police chief
Frank Jordan is the mayor of the police chief and
he's the police chief I have here somewhere wants him

(01:12:01):
to go on the news and take his pants off.
He wants them to strip from the waist down and
go on live TV.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
This is some dark mirror shit, Yeah, black mirror black
Marry asks is some black mirror shit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
But it's basically he wants he wants to humiliate the
head of the police department the way he was humiliated,
and he wants it to be on TV. Which finally
there's a because I'd only ever heard of those demands
that he had and they just made it sown, Like
can you believe that? It's like, no, there's fucking backstory
to this. Yeah, he was. There's a reason for it,
there is a logic to it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
It's kind of like the center of the whole fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
It really is. And also, why if you smashed your
car into things, why did you have to get strip served?

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Definitely, I mean it's almost like were they yeah, what
was then or were they like he's clearly on some drugs, right,
but he was just schizophrenic or was at that time
of like was it racism?

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Was it? Was it some kind of what was happening? Definitely? Okay,
so no, it is Frank Jordan. Frank Jordan was the
chief of police. Okay, So anyway, they're like, and they're
he's basically saying, he turned on the TV in the bar,
and he's like, I want to see it happening. So

(01:13:14):
the the it's driving the negotiators crazy because he won't
get on the phone and he won't talk himself because
he's he knows if he stands up in front of
that window, they're gonna shoot him. Sure, so he will
only talk through a proxy or you know whatever. So there,
they can't negotiate that way. So they keep saying, like,

(01:13:37):
we need more time. He's also demanding he demanded sixteen
trillion dollars. He also wanted California, Nevada, and Oregon, like
because he wants He is like, this is what I'm owed.
I've done all this work for you psychically, you owe
me this. So anyway, they keep saying we need time

(01:13:58):
or we have to But that's when the negotiators and
the police start to realize this is a very bad
situation because we can't give him even some of what
he needs. We can't even approximate a negotiation here. So
this is going to go back. I think they have
like lied well, but he wanted to see it on
the news. He wanted to see it on his TV,
so he wanted to see something actually happening, and they're like,

(01:14:20):
there's there will not be progress here. So that all happens,
it's like basically in four hours. So it's now four
am and there's no progress, and he's getting really agitated,
and he finally says, I guess I'm going to have
to shoot somebody, which one of you is going to
be the one that gets shot? Oh my gosh. And

(01:14:41):
he's looking around this bar and it's these are college kids.
They're all people that are probably the oldest twenty three,
and they're looking at each other and one guy steps
forward and says, you can shoot me yep. So then
he says, can I go tell them what's about to happen?
And the guy says yes. So he goes to the

(01:15:02):
window and says, I'm about to be I'm about to
be I'm sorry, I'm about to be executed right now.
And of course the police are like they don't know
what to do because they don't have a clear they
don't have a clear in in any way. And it
also was a part of it that the part that
was bad was that it was in this lobby of

(01:15:23):
this hotel. So there's people in the hotel. Holy shit,
and it's the middle of the night, but they know
they're like time is ticking away because pretty soon, like
by seven am, this is a college campus, they're practically
on campus, so like they're not going to be able
to keep people from coming closer and closer to the scene.
So they know they're going to have to do something

(01:15:43):
about it soon. So the guy yells out the window.
Nobody knows what to do. This is on the news
they have, like they were showing this footage. The kid
walks back, he says to the guy, can I say
a prayer? And the guy says yes, And so the
kid says a prayer. They all are just sitting there
like watching, some of them close their eyes, and then

(01:16:05):
the guy shoots into the ceiling. And so when they said,
these people being interviewed who went through this said like
they heard all the noises, that smoke clears, and then
he's still standing there, so they realized that he's just trying.
He's trying to prove that he means business, but he
actually doesn't want to hurt or kill anybody, but he

(01:16:26):
just feels like he's being pushed to the limit.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
That guy who volunteered, they.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Don't say his name. I couldn't find his name anywhere.
I know, amazing hard Stark. What it was my dad, Oh,
my god, your family. My dad's like, oh, that was
a crazy night at work.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Well, I used to go to a co ed bars sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
I took some night classes over at cal Yeah, that's
what he would call it. Cow. So a couple of
the women in the show say that they think that
actually made him feel very empowered and made him feel better.
So it brought the level of tension down a little
bit because it was like because he could choose who's
gonna kill him or not exactly right, and he kind
of chose the better thing. But that's also from outside.

(01:17:08):
The cops freak out because they think someone yells I'm
about to be executed and then there's gunshots.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
So uh, it's so hard to hear these things and
not think of like cell phones, I know, you know
what I mean, Because you're like, oh, I wonder if
someone had their cell phone open and was talking. It's like,
there weren't cell.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Phone nineteen ninety there was nothing. Yeah, it's so weird.
It was nothing. It was such a bizarrely innocent time
in some ways, and then also media wise, very stupid
because the fact that the news was running it live
like people got to watch it as it happened was

(01:17:49):
very bad.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
And then it bolstered him, probably because he was like,
now a big deal and everyone was that's a thing
of like, don't say the killer's name, say the victims' names,
because that's what they want us to be famous.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
Exactly right, And it gave the police no control. Whatever
happened and whatever the newscasters decided to talk about was
what was happening. So when the newscasters found out that
he had been diagnosed as a paranoids getsphrenic, they said
it he saw it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
Then he got all upset, so he got his wife
left him or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Yes, he sees it, and then he's like, it's it's more.
And it's also feeding into his paranoid, schizophrenic idea that
the government is in his head. All of the things
that were happening were feeding into all his worst fears.
That makes sense, and escalating it essentially. Okay, So so

(01:18:39):
they put snipers on the roof across the street, and
at one point they're like, because they're trying to you know,
now it's uh, it's for him. It's getting you know,
it's been going on. So they decide that the snipers
are like, these street lights are actually compromising our position here.
If he looks out the way he can see us
sitting here, he might freak out. So somebody else decides

(01:19:02):
to shoot out the street lights. Well, then he hears dosh,
she hears that happening outside and gets all agitated. Jesus,
that was a bad idea. Yeah, that's when they said.
He his mood starts to swing from he's like rage, screaming,

(01:19:23):
going crazy to sitting quietly and mumbling to himself for
like long periods of time. At five am, he tells
the bartender give everybody four beers. Everybody drank and have fun.
And one of the women being interviewed says, that's when
we knew he was going to kill all of us,

(01:19:44):
because he basically wanted it all to be okay for us.
When it happened, he felt like that it was clear
that the plan was like, have your last four beers,
have your like final raw party, and that's when it
got super scary. Oh in that so he has a briefcase.
Just for the details. In the briefcase, he has a

(01:20:06):
large caliber revolver, two handguns, a fully automatic pistol. Oh sorry, no,
the handguns were one was fully automatic and one was
semi automatic. And then he has ammunition for all three.
So he's just got It's like there, he's not going anywhere.
He's got a briefcase full of stuff. As they're watching

(01:20:30):
the news, the news reports that the boy that he
shot in the chest died at the hospital. Oh no,
and Dashi starts going crazy, going, I didn't do it.
I did not kill him. They're lying. This is the government.
They're lying. I didn't do it. And he loses his shit.
Oh my god, which I think is another really sad

(01:20:52):
part about it, because it's like he went in there.
He had this big plan he was gonna he wanted
to defile America's citizens. He wanted to do to America
what America was doing to him, but he actually didn't,
like actually deep down that he wasn't a killer.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Really he wanted to do that, but he didn't. Doesn't
sound like because letting all the people who got hurt
go is just such a go get help, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
It's yeah, It's not what like a you know, psychopath
would do or a person that's like, I've got this
plan and here's my perfect revenge. It's like a person
with a serious mental issue who's trying to fix the
complete abject desperation of his own life. It's horrifying. So anyway,
so okay, So he tells one of the female hostages

(01:21:45):
to go into to see if she can go find
go into the kitchen, which is now dark, and find
a light switch, like he wanted to go into the
back room for some reason. Well, she goes in there
and then sees that there's an exit door and she
gets the fuck out, and then she goes to the
police and like reports everything that's going on and updates everything.

(01:22:07):
And then another at around four am, another female hostage
she had moved into and hid in the dining room area,
and she managed to open like an accordion style door
that led to the hotel lobby, so she got out too.

(01:22:27):
So then around six point fifteen in the morning, the
rear kitchen door opens again and a third female hostage
who was sent into the kitchen to find a light
not learn his life, does it. Yeah, he just wants
that light so bad that he's not seeing his mistake.
So she gets out too, So now there's thirty three
people still in the pub with him. Now the problem

(01:22:52):
is again because it's the nineties, there's no cell phones
or anything. The whole phone system is the hotel's phone system,
so it's you know that crazy thing of like it's
all the lines are connected to the lobby. So it
took them that a really long time to just go
straight to the pub phone. So they finally start calling
the pub phone and he won't answer it, and he's saying,

(01:23:14):
they're just trying to get to me. They're trying to
distract me, and just not coincidentally, but by chance or whatever,
the is that the same The phone's cord couldn't stretch
past the bar, so when the phone was ringing, he
was like, bring it to me, but it couldn't reach
where he was, so he would have had to get

(01:23:34):
up and walk to the bar to answer the phone,
which he believed was a trick. So he makes a guy, Yeah,
it's just one more thing where it's like everything's feeding
into his paranoia. So he makes a guy get on
the phone, and again by proxy, they're trying to negotiate,
which it doesn't work, and the guy is demanding yelling
stuff and whatever, and the proxy is kind of trying

(01:23:55):
to say the calm version of what the guy is saying,
because he's like, I want sixteen trillion dollars for my
mental to lep at the services. It's all that stuff.
So they had basically they knew they were at an
impasse because they weren't going to be able to negotiate
with him. There was no They had done everything that

(01:24:15):
they could in terms of negotiation. So they knew now
that the waiting strategy that part was over because they
had they had to take some kind of an action.
So they decided they were going to do diversion tactics,
which is basically when the swap team goes in in
two teams, and one of the team rolls in like
a flash canister, and then the other team comes in

(01:24:37):
from the other side. So when they they it's seven
twenty three in the morning, so they'd been there for
fucking almost eight hours. They roll in the flash canister
and everyone starts screaming, and the cops come in and

(01:24:57):
they the second team like opens the door and they're like,
get out, get out, get out. So some people are
running and as he stands up from his place where
he'd been, you know, like crouched against the wall, and
he starts moving toward a booth where he had all
these people seated. And when the swat team saw him

(01:25:17):
moving toward that group of hostages, they shot him. They
they yelled for him to put the gun down or whatever,
and he didn't, and he kept moving and so they
shot him there, and then they got the rest of
the hostages out and then they got dashed into an
ambulance and he died on the way to the hospital. Yeah,
and holy shit, essentially, the they the news was using

(01:25:45):
high power cameras, they were monitoring police radios, they were
seeking public interviews. They were broadcasting detailed and often uncooborated
information the entire night and never thinking about what would happen.
And they actually, I'm not sure if it was kpi

(01:26:08):
X or a different news place, but they had they
reported the swat team plan on the news and the
only reason Dashie didn't see it is because he had
turned it to a different channel at that point. Just
fuck just by luck, because they were just basically it
was almost like having never been in that scenario before
they were like, let's go with the story, let's keep

(01:26:30):
It's the reason that like, it's the reason we are
now in this twenty four hour news cycle is that
is capturing and poisoned the minds to so many people
because the news does it for money and because they
keep eyes on the screen. And this was almost like
one of the first versions of that and the worst
versions of it. Yeah, so anyway to this to date,

(01:26:54):
they say this incident is one of the most significant
hostage rescue, significant and successful hostage rescue operations in US history. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's amazing that they were able
to do that without anyone else getting hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
Yes, you know, yeah they didn't shoot anybody or no,
no innocent bystanders. But it's really crazy when in that
show Watching in the morning light when they when those
people start finally start running and there's just swap people
all the way up the street going like this and
just people in eighties clothes fucking like booking it up
the street. Have I never seen that?

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
It's yeah, I'm just picturing the Columbine video, the footage
of the kids getting out of the Yeah, and how
scary that is.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
It's so so awful. That is so terrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
You just got to wonder what you do in those
like you personally would do in those situations. And as
much as I'm like, it's the thing of like, well
those girls escaped, but like at what cost? You know too,
because you're always like, well they're going to kill someone
else because escape. But then they were able to probably
tell police where he was crouched and what he was
doing and what he yes, like what this situation was inside.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Also, the girl that got shot shot eight times, her
friends had to stay behind, so she had all this guilt.
She got to leave and her friends were there, so
she's like met you any times I think, yeah, you're shoddy.
Times you're you're free and clear. But I mean, that's
what a terrible scenario to even be in totally and yeah,

(01:28:31):
it's just it's just such a crazy, fucking unbelievable thing
that happened.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
Yeah, well fuck man, Yeah that's how we want God
bless amen. Okay, positive thing this week, Positive thing this week,
go ahead. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Last night I got to see the movie The Big Sick,
which our friends Emily Gordon and Kummel nan Gianni made
and it was so lovely and such a great romantic
story that isn't shitty.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
It's always weird because I've.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Known Emily for a long time and she told me
the story about how it's a story of how they
started dating and she told me this and just to
watch it and kumeos in it and Zoe Kazan, who's
so fucking talent.

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
It was just please go watch it. It's just such
a great movie of like, is it out?

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
I think it's coming out this weekend or something, Okay soon, Yeah,
but it was just so lovely and it was great
to see.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
Great to see that made me really happy. Nice, yeah cool.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
What about you? Well, I guess I'll just do I
can do the simple one of that. I get to
write on Baskets this new season, which is very exciting.
It's amazing. I love that job and I love the
people that work there, and it's just like a very
very very cool room to work in. Yeah, and that's
so great. So yeah, So that's it's even though it's

(01:30:02):
hard to have. This is now a full time job
with this podcast, so to have two is challenging, but
we've done it before.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
We have Well, thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
To you guys. Yes, thank you. We hope everything it
was great. I hope you are happy. This has been
my favorite murder you guys, thank you. Stay sexy and
don't get murdered. Bye bye.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
Made me want a cookie.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
I