February 3, 2025 • 56 mins
Get ready for Part Two of our extraordinary, exclusive conversation with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer on My Legacy! Along with hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger – Mel dives even deeper into the pivotal moments and powerful lessons that shaped her path.
Picking up where they left off, Mel delves into her "Let Them Theory," a mindset tool at the heart of her bestselling book that reshaped her relationships, strengthened her bond with Sawyer, and helped her reclaim her inner peace. Sawyer shares how this approach guided her through heartbreak and repaired their mother/daughter relationship.
With reflections on forgiveness, personal responsibility, and the courage to let go of control, this episode offers a roadmap for navigating love, family, and life’s challenges with grace and empowerment.
If you missed Part One, be sure to listen for the full story behind this unforgettable conversation.
Creator and Executive Producer: Suzanne Hayward
Co-Executive Producer: Lisa Lisle
A/V and Editing by Garcia Creative
Produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Executive Producer Gabrielle Collins, and distributed by iHeart Media.
All clips of Mel Robbins, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Rebecca Gupta are from future episodes of My Legacy podcast.
Like our podcast? Visit http://youtube.com/@mylegacymovement to see full episodes.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I didn't learn as till I was fifty four years old.
If I had known this way back when, I would
literally not have been a walking red flag for most
of my life. I would not have taken my stress
out on my family. I would have been more peaceful
and more powerful because I had no idea how much
power I'd given to other people.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And that was the incredible male Robbins with a powerful
realization that reshaped our relationships, her family, and even her
sense of self. And she's about to share it with us.
This is My Legacy a podcast hosted by me and
my husband, Martin Luther King, the third oldest son of
doctor Martin Luther King Junior and Coretta Scott King. Together
(00:48):
we're caring for their iconic legacy of equality, peace and
justice for all. Plus we're joined by our good friends
New York Times best selling authors Mark and Craig Kilberger.
Last week we began an unforgettable conversation with mel and
her daughter Sawyer. It's the first interview they've ever done together,
and we were all a part of it. It was raw,
(01:11):
emotional and filled with moments that had all of us laughing, crying,
and rethinking the way we approached love, family, and forgiveness.
If you thought part one was eye opening, get ready
for part two, as Mel reveals her transformative let Them theory,
how it healed her and Sawyer's relationship, and her invaluable
(01:33):
wisdom for overcoming heartbreak. Let's pick up right where we
left off. Welcome to my legacy.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Mel, your new book, The Left Them Theory. It encourages
people to just let control go over other people's choices.
And the part that I love is that you said
it helped to heal and fortify your relationship with your daughter.
Can you share both the theory and how it brought
you closer together?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Absolutely so. The leat thein theory is a simple mindset
tool that helps you identify, literally in a moment, what's
in your control and what's not in your control, and
the way that you use it is very simple. If
you're in a situation and some other person is stressing
you out or upsetting you or offending you, or you're
worried about them, or they're treating you poorly, you literally
(02:18):
say let them because the number one thing in life
that you will never ever, ever ever be able to
control is another human being. You can't control what they think.
You can't control what they do. You cannot control how
they feel, period, And any psychologists will tell you that
any time that you spend trying to only makes you
feel more stressed, out, frustrated, and out of control and
(02:43):
the problem for all of us. And I didn't learn
this so I was fifty four years old. If I
had known this way back when, I would literally not
have been a walking red flag for most of my life.
I would not have taken my stress out of my family,
have been more peaceful and more powerful because I had
(03:03):
no idea how much power I'd given to other people,
and neither nobody does, because we don't understand how we're
turning other people into the problem. And I've got very
important and exciting information, and it says, if you feel
tired in life, if you are frustrated, if you're stuck,
if you're stressed out, if you feel like you never
(03:24):
have time for yourself, if you're just not as happy
as you'd like to be, the problem isn't you. The
problem is you're unknowingly giving power to other people, and
you do it in four ways. You allow them to
stress you out, you worry about and you manage what
they're thinking. You navigate your life based on their moods
(03:45):
and their opinions and their disappointment and their guilt and
their expectations, and you paralyze yourself because you're chronically comparing
yourself to them and telling yourself that if they're successful
or they're this, then I can't have it, and it's
simply not true. And what the let them theory does
is that any situation that you're in, and you're going
(04:05):
to use it with your family more than anybody, because
I think family teaches you how to love people you
hate sometimes, right, you gotta let them because you're not
going to change them. And what you will learn as
you start to use this is people only change when
they feel like changing. People only change when they're ready
to change. People only change when they're ready to do
(04:26):
the hard work to change. And the other piece that
you have to embrace is that we think worrying about
or pressuring or judging or pushing people to change motivates
people to change. It's actually the opposite. If you look
at the wiring of a human being, everybody has a
fundamental need for control. When you're in control of what
(04:48):
you're thinking about in your decisions and your future and
the environment that you're in, you actually feel safe. And
the problem is if Martin's doing something that is worrying now,
his behavior is something I want to control. But Martin
has the same need to control his life as I do.
(05:08):
So when I start to push on Martin or suggests
that Martin should do this or should do that, what
does Martin do? Martin pushes back because he needs to
be in control. And I didn't realize that I was
creating so much unnecessary friction and frustration and distance with
(05:28):
people in my life. I didn't realize how much time
and energy I was losing, because you know, let's just
take a simple example. You're at the grocery store and
there's five people in front of you and there's one cashier.
We've all been there, right, yes, And immediately the stress
(05:49):
rises up inside you. And then all of a sudden,
you get agitated, and then you start thinking why are
they not calling it? And then you're looking around, and
then you start thinking you can run the store better
than anybody, right, And now let's just stop and actually
really look at what this is. This is you giving
power to something that you do not control and When
(06:10):
you do that, a number of things happen. Number one,
did you notice as the stress goes up, your life
force energy goes out. So you are allowing stupid, meaningless,
all kinds of irritating people that are beneath you and
not worth your time and energy. You are allowing it
(06:31):
to exhaust you, and you don't have to. And the
solution is just to say let them, and immediately you
feel peace because what you're doing is you're tapping into
a tremendous like I feel like I've got everybody's ancestors
with me. Because this is an application of stoicism, of Buddhism,
of radical acceptance, of detachment, theory of literally not reacting
(06:59):
and staying in your piece, and then something interesting happens.
You say the second part, which is let me, let
me remind myself that in any situation, I have power
because there are three things I can control. I can
control what I think about. Next, I can control what
I do or I don't do. Because you can leave
the supermarket. You could if you never have time to
(07:24):
talk to your friends, you could pick up the phone
and call your friend or your grandma. You could practice meditation.
You could say a prayer if you say, let me
and remind yourself that you have power, right, And so
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And also you said, you know all of these different ancestors,
you're bringing in the ancestor of Martin Luther King junior
in the whole civil rights movement. Yes, because I think
what people also forget is that when you're talking about
the lunch counters, when you're talking about the freedom.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Writers, yes they trained. Yes, you know, they.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Didn't just go in you know, and so and I'll
be non reactious.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yes, and it was a.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Lot of what exactly that you're talking about, and let
them like this is like they're going to do this. Yes,
I you know, I choose, I choose how then I
will respond to that. And what I also think is
important is like you have to it is training.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It is you know, you have to think about it
and you have to.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, it is disciplined. And here's the other thing it
is because a lot of people hear this and then
they'll say, wait, you're just allowing people to walk all
over you, You're allowing people to abuse you. And I'm like,
oh no, it's the opposite, because you're actually allowing it. Now,
when you say let them, it's almost like you're allowing
it without allowing it, because you're saying, I see the
(08:47):
reality here, and I see that I can't control this,
and so I choose my response because I know I
do have power. And oftentimes the best response is no response.
The response is peace. And we give too much energy
and too much fear into things we can't control, and
(09:07):
in doing so, we blind ourselves to the fact that
you always have control. And whether you're talking about a
family dynamic, or you're talking about a community, or you're
talking about a world at large, I see. I find
it just so sad and fascinating that we always let
the most challenging and toxic behavior seem to get all
(09:28):
the power. But I actually think the opposite is true.
I believe that the person that is peaceful, I believe
that the person that understands their power. I believe the
person who actually constantly reminds themselves, wait a minute, I
have power here because I have power over my thoughts,
I have power over my actions. I have power over
(09:49):
how I allow my emotions to rise and fall. And
it's inside that power that any single person can change
something for the better.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, that's what because you're responding and not reacting. Yes,
and responding is when you come from a place of power.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes. And it's also how you take personal responsibility. Let's
talk about responsibility, because the word responsibility is just the
ability to respond and everybody has that. And so when
you really remind yourself of that, now you can be
(10:29):
the person that changes everything. Because it just takes one
person to change the energy and dynamic in a family.
It takes one person who cares enough to change the
politics in a country. It takes one person to just
shift everything. And if you don't like where you're at,
(10:49):
or you don't like where your family's at, or you
don't like something in a relationship, or you don't like
something in the world at large, that one person is you.
And as long as you give your time and energy,
and you give other people power their opinions, there all
of it that none of what you can control. You
are not present to the power you actually have and
(11:10):
the time and the energy that you need to create
the change that you're capable of changing.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Two thoughts come to mind as you're speaking. One of them.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It's like the serenity prayers my grandmother would always say.
Our grandmother would alway talk about, you know, change the
things you can, you know, forget the things you can't.
Was the difference. But the second thought that came through
my mind was as you talked about that, the lack
of reaction. It is like the nonviolence movement. Nonviolence is
not non action, and the let them is that power
to not let the negative drive your choices. But in fact,
(11:41):
even under the toughest circumstances, you have the ability still
to respond. And Martin, I think of the most extraordinary thing.
I think one of the most extraordinary acts of courage.
Wasn't only your dad, there's also your grandfather.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Yeah, so I think everyone knows that my father was
assassinated I was ten years old. My father's mother was
also assassinated in the church while playing the Lord's prayer.
And again my grandfather, as a minister, had been preaching forgiveness.
It's one thing to preach that, but then to have
(12:16):
to practice it and exemplify it. Because you've gone through
this situation, you're telling all your parishioners, yes, because you
can say that, but now you can say, from a
personal standpoint, I haven't impacted. But this is the way
I choose. I choose to forgive, I choose to continue
to show up in love. And he did that many
(12:40):
in many ways throughout his sermons, basically saying, I refuse
to allow a man that killed my lovely wife nor
my son to.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Reduce me to hatred.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
I love everybody. I'm every man's brother. That was a
choice that impacted us directly, meaning my siblings and I
obviously my mom and siblings and I, even though we
had learned it as children, now we had to live
through it. And again a choice because we could have
chosen to be angry and hostile and hateful. This is
what I can control. This is how I'm gonna choose
(13:12):
to live my life, and hopefully it sets an example.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
For others well.
Speaker 7 (13:16):
And didn't let hatred come into his heart?
Speaker 6 (13:18):
No, he did not.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
He did not allow that.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
One thing I do want to say that this reminds
me so much because when I speak, and I use
the story a lot as relates to our nation and world,
but I think it also relates to everything personal. And
I talk about the story of the two wolves, heard
that story, and I talk about the fact that that
little girl goes up to her grandmother and says that
(13:43):
you know, grandmother, that there is a war going on
inside of me. And there are these two wolves in
their battle, and I'm not sure which one is gonna win,
because one is full of anger and bitterness and hatred
and hostility, and yet there's another wolf that's full of
love and nobleness and peacefulness, and they're really out of battle,
and I grandmother tell me what to do.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Who's going to win?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And our grandmother looked at her and said, the wolf
that you feed. And I think that this reminds me
let them like, we get to choose what wolf are
we going to feed? We get to choose that in
the world, and that's the wolf that we'll win. And
we get to also choose that as individuals, and we
have to decide every day what wolf we're going to
(14:27):
be feeding.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
More with Mel Robbins and her daughter about how their
new book transformed their relationship.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
We'll be right back afterword from our partners.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
We're back with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer on
my legacy, Andre. The next question is yours.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Now, Sawyer, when you're writing this book together, you're actually
working on a relationship, chap or why you were going
through a breakup, correct, do you mind? Can you talk
just a little bit about that and maybe give someone
advice that is going through a very heart breakup. You know,
(15:15):
it's particularly when you're well at any age.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 8 (15:20):
So ironically, actually I was writing the breakup chapter, or
starting to write it, and that morning and then that
night I got broken up with And so then the
next morning I'm like, this is horrible.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I can't let them move on.
Speaker 8 (15:41):
Rip delete, delete, delete, And but then I really thought
about it, and over the course of a few months, like,
I was so upset, and I think when someone goes
through a breakup, there.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Is no good advice.
Speaker 8 (16:00):
There's no toolkit, there's no YouTube video, there is nothing
anyone can say to make you feel better. And what
people often tell you is the generic, oh, you just
have to learn to love yourself again, which at that point.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
You hate yourself.
Speaker 8 (16:18):
You feel ugly, you feel undesired, you feel unloved and rejected.
And so I really wanted, as we continued to write
this chapter together, to make sure that the person reading
it actually could put as Mal always does, but put
(16:39):
action towards it. It's not just some blank advice where
you don't actually know what to do, and so we
both have the same therapist and Davin smartest woman in
the world. And what Ann told me to do is well,
first she explained that when you go through a breakup
(17:00):
that it's actually you and your partner or your past partner.
Your bodies and your neurological makeup is intertwined, and so
actually what's happening is they're breaking patterns in your body.
And that impulse to text them fifteen times a day,
(17:22):
or feeling like they are sleeping next to you, or
you can hear them in the car, or you want
to call them and tell them about something, all of
those little impulses in your body are because the pattern
is so locked in and interwined that the process of
a breakup is actually about breaking those patterns in your body.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yes, and it's so hardened.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
So it's actually grief because when you go through a breakup,
it is the death of a future or a person.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
That is no longer here.
Speaker 8 (17:57):
And so I think as we were writing the breakup chapter,
I wanted to make sure that we had.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Really actual advice.
Speaker 8 (18:08):
And so what I will tell to all of you
who are listening, if you are going through a breakup,
is first of all, you're not alone. And second of
all is I encourage you to do what me and
Mel call a thirty day rule. And the thirty day
rule or reset or all of that is basically to
(18:28):
cut contact for thirty days. And that doesn't just mean
don't reach out to them, don't text them. It means
you cannot look at any photos, any voice, memos.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Social media, no social media. You can snapchat and mute everything.
Speaker 8 (18:44):
Because what happens, and this is what and described to me,
is that every single time you reach out to them,
or you hear their voice which is especially really bad,
or you're looking through past photos. Every single time you
do that, it re in states the neurological pathways in
your body to that convinces you that they are still
(19:06):
around and they're still in your life, and they're not
that life is no longer, and so you are basically
trying every time you connect with one of those items
or photos, it prolongs the heartbreak, It prolongs the grief,
and so we encourage everyone to do a thirty day
(19:27):
reset and do not reach out to them.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And that's where they let them comes in because you're
gonna have to say how many times a day? Would
you say?
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Let them like twenty times a day?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
And then do you literally block because I know, like
okay mail. Back in our days, you know we could
just you know, you know, block the phone number or
not look at photos. So does that mean now for
your age our doors, does that mean no social media?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Like?
Speaker 4 (19:52):
So do you everything?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Do you physically block your social media?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Like just like you know, you can't it sober until
you quit drinking.
Speaker 8 (20:01):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And while you go through that process, your body's going
to go through withdrawal because you're learning how to live
life without it. And that's why you have to say,
let them, let them leave, let them move on, let
them hook up with somebody else, and let me remind
myself that they're gone. Let me remind myself that every
time I look at their location or I listen to
a voice memo, that I am keeping myself trapped in
(20:25):
a life that no longer exists. And so it is
a form of grief. And the hardest thing about being
a parent is that when you see somebody that you
love struggling, you would put yourself in front of a
moving car in order to take it away. But When
you do that, you basically communicate to somebody that I
don't believe you're strong enough to handle this. And so
(20:46):
I had to let her grieve. I had to let
her wear pajamas and sit in her bed for three days.
I had to let her ask me to remove him
from the digital camera rotation situation. And as I'm like
going pause, pause, because I'm even pausing it because I'm like,
maybe looking back together, maybe look at back, you know,
and so let them, let them, let them, and let
(21:07):
me remind myself that I cannot heal for her. Yeah,
let me remind myself that she is capable of moving
through this. Let me remind myself it's not my job
to take her pain away. It's my job to comfort
her in her pain.
Speaker 8 (21:26):
And what I will also say why I think the
Latin theory is so powerful is obviously when you use it.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
It's with my ex.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
I was just saying let them constantly to myself, But
you can also use it in communication because at first
you are not so amazing.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
As you described.
Speaker 8 (21:46):
She was always trying to talk about it, always trying
to say are you okay?
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Are you okay?
Speaker 8 (21:51):
And I would say I am trying to let you,
let them, let you have your own process through this,
because I know you are also losing someone in your
life and something you.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
And vision was going to happen.
Speaker 8 (22:06):
And at the same time, I need you to let
me cry and be depressed and eat bond bonds every
single night and just leave me alone a little bit,
and I need you to let me take a break
and to not talk about it and to come to
you when I need you, and I promise I will.
(22:29):
And so I feel like you can also use it
in communication, which acknowledges what you want, but it also
acknowledges what I need and what I want.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, it really brought us like and this is what
I mean, like the process of it, of writing this
book and researching this book, it really and using the
let them theory and exploring it around love and stress
and struggles and trying to change other people because that's
what we do, right. We want we, you know, wanting
someone to do better, wanting someone to be motivated, wanting
(23:01):
someone to forgive. That's a beautiful thing to see possibility
for someone else. That's not the problem. The problem is
how we go about it, and we don't realize we're
working against the wiring of human beings and when you
should push yourself, but when it comes to the people
in your life, you actually have to let them live
(23:21):
their lives because it creates space for true connection and
change to be. I mean, after all, love is truly
loving somebody for who they are and for who they're not.
And a lot of us live up here and we
really are living in the possibility and in the fantasy,
(23:42):
but we are not truly accepting and connecting with the
reality of the person that we wake up next to
or we sit across the table with. And all we
want is to feel like the people that are in
our lives actually see us for who we are. And
you know, do you want to know? And oftentimes it's true,
especially when we think we know best, and we underestimate
(24:03):
how hard people are already working. The hardest working person,
for example, in a classroom is not the kid getting a's.
It's the kid who's failing. The person who is actually
working the hardest on their weight is the person who's unhealthy.
People know when they're not thriving, People know when they're
not reaching their potential. People know when they're quietly quitting
(24:26):
on themselves. And so when you and I, with the
best of our intentions, keep going, why do you keep
dating these losers? Or can't you be more motivated, or
you know, why wouldn't you take better care of yourself?
That just adds more pressure on top of somebody who
already feels like they're not measuring up and they're in
deep conflict with themselves. And when you learn to let
(24:48):
someone cry it out, you learn to let someone learn
from the greatest teacher in the world, which is life.
When you do not shield people from the consequences of
their decisions, but instead you stand by their side and
you believe in the power that they have to meet
the challenges of their life, then you create the space
(25:11):
for a human being to reach their own potential on
their own timeline. And what happened for us is I
think so many relationships, particularly in family. I don't know
how you guys feel about your relationship with your daughter,
but there's that intense love and then there's that like,
oh right, and we were like a death by a
thousand cuts with one another. We're constantly missing the mark
(25:35):
a little bit, and then one of us would be
offended or annoyed and then she'd go off, and then
I'd go after and we'd try to talk, and then
I'd try to buy or something like whatever, let's just
make this go away, and you would then manipulate and
be like, let's go to them all because now we're
going to be like, oh my god. That I'd be
mad because I'd be like, I just watched all this stuff,
and now you're not nice to me. But what were
gonna say?
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Oh no, I was just gonna say.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
I think within a very short summary our relationship, and
this is what I haven't.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Described yet, but too.
Speaker 8 (26:04):
Like two years ago, I was we were doing some therapy,
and I had this vision of me as like an infant,
like one or two months old, and it was as
if I was looking up. I was in a crib
and I was looking up into this at the ceiling,
and I remember wanting my mom to come, and she,
(26:30):
like my dad, kept coming to pick me up. Or
this woman who her name was Jonie Twining, who helped
during the postpartum depression with her and her giving birth
to me, kept picking me up, and all I wanted
was my mom.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
And all I wanted was my mom.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
And she never came, and I honestly think that is
a real memory. And when I started going through childhood,
I think her working all the time reaffirm that in
my mind is that I always wanted her to come
and like pick me up and be with me and
give me attention and make me feel like I mattered,
(27:09):
And she was off doing amazing things.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
But always away.
Speaker 8 (27:16):
So it confirmed to me that, at least in my mind,
that I didn't matter. And so I think then that
is what created the tension between us. Is I then
developed the mindset, well, I don't need you and I
don't want you, and I can do this on my own,
and I'm gonna go to Cambodia and I'm going to
go to Asia, and I don't need any of your
(27:37):
money or any of your help, and I'm never working
for you. And and I think that at the same time,
like all I wanted was to be near her and
to be her and looking.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Up to her.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
And it wasn't until we finally started working together this
entire past year that I obviously, I think it not
only brought us closer in proximity, which helps, but I
think the let them theory and using the let them
theory with each other is actually what healed that entire separation,
(28:16):
because I was finally able to let her be who
she is without wanting to change her and without wanting to, like,
without getting mad at her all the time because of little.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Things that I thought we were annoying.
Speaker 8 (28:31):
Or I thought we're disrespectful, or I wanted her attention
on me versus someone else. And so I think that
it wasn't until I was able to say, let them
and acknowledge.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
This is who she is.
Speaker 8 (28:42):
She's freaking crazy and pisses me off and is the
creative and I'm like the OCD organization. So writing a
book was very dramatic sometimes, but it wasn't until I
was able to let her be who she is and
accept it and have more compassion and more of a
(29:04):
lens into everything that she goes through every day and
how much work she actually does. Oh my gosh, Like
when I joined the company, I couldn't even believe how
many areas and how many people rely on her and
how big the company is.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
And I, like my siblings don't know that. They would
have never known that.
Speaker 8 (29:22):
They still probably will never know that because they don't
see her in her everyday element.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
But again, I.
Speaker 8 (29:29):
Couldn't just let them, because then I felt, whenever you
just let them, you can find yourself very lonely or
without many friends because you feel superior.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
You're like, I'm better than them. Let them, I'm the
bigger person. Let them. I don't have to do anything.
I'm gonna sit in my silence. I'm gonna cut off this.
Speaker 8 (29:51):
Relationship, let them, let them, let them. I know I
can't control you, but I'm not gonna do anything about it.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
But it wasn't until I started saying let me, like
I am.
Speaker 8 (30:00):
I am in control of me and my mom's relationship.
She's not in control of our relationship. I am, And
so I need to show up differently. I need to
be more open. I need to have more open arms.
I need to let me. Except that she's going to
rewrite the manuscript eleven times, and I'm going to let them,
(30:20):
and I'm gonna let me.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And the corresponding thing happened to me because again, it's
about peace internally and what you can control, and it's
about learning to allow people to be who they are
and see them, perhaps for the very first time. And
I think it's very easy. As a child, I know
I did this with my parents to forget this is
their first time being a human being, this is their
(30:43):
parent that you can only give people what's been given
to you. You can only meet someone as deeply as
you've met yourself. And I think it was Oprah that
tells a story about how you know if you're a
person that needs a gallon of love and somebody has
only a quarter cup to give. If they give you
the quarter cup, they've given you everything. It just didn't
(31:07):
feel adequate for what you needed, which is that mismatch
I'm talking about. And so it creates so much more
compassion because it forces you to really see people for
who they are and who they aren't, not through the
lens of judgment, but through acceptance. And then when you
say they let me part, it is true. I am
(31:30):
responsible for our relationship, just like she said, She's responsible
because I'm responsible for the energy that I bring. Just
like your grandfather said, I'm responsible for the peace inside me.
Why on earth would I give it to this person?
And so I'm going to take the power back because
that's where the power lies. And so what I started
to notice, because just like my creativity and ADHD drives
(31:54):
are absolutely bananas her intensity and the Excel spreadsheets and
the this is like, I can't think like that. And
then she would get all front and I'd be like,
let her, let her go upstairs to a room and
remove herself because she needs to, and let me not
go try to solve this. And what I also noticed
is that when I wasn't so frustrated or there wasn't
(32:18):
a lot of tension between us, I actually saw what
I wanted, which was I wanted to hug her. I
wanted to go check on her, not through a place
of changing, but through loving.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
One of the things that I keep feeling as I'm
looking at both of you, but particularly you Sawyer, is
that the whole the Rich Shoes and at the end
of the Wizard of Oz and when she was told
that it was within you, all alone, exactly all your
powers always yeah, And so that I feel like the journey,
even that you've been on up into this point, one
(32:54):
of the things I just want to say to you,
I just you know that the power has been within
you all of the Thank.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
You, grab a refill on your coffee or tea, because
you won't want to miss the rest of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
We'll be right back. You're listening to my legacy.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
We're back with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer Andre.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Go ahead and take it away.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Okay, So menopause is having a well deserved moment, right
and gen X and younger women are really starting to
have a conversation about everything that goes with it and
to know that we need answers. So as you are
(33:44):
someone that's asking all of the experts and all of
those aging questions that so many women have been too
embarrassed to ask for too long, I think that we
think that everything stops at childbearing and that's it. And
then you know, so, how have you seen this empower
your listeners? And then what have you heard from them?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
This is an excellent question. So just to give you
a sense of just how important of a topic this is,
Apple just named an episode that we did on menopause
with one of the leading female doctors on it as
the number two most downloaded and shared episode of any
(34:27):
podcast anywhere in the world of the year this year.
And the reason why this is important is because there
is every single day. I think their research is eight
thousand women in our menopause. And what I didn't know
because this is like a gigantic what how could I
(34:47):
get through life? And not no simple facts like this,
Like I had no idea that women were not actually
included in clinical research until the nineteen eighties because of
our hormones are fluctuating, so it can throw off clinical
t trials, and even to this day, they mostly use
women that are postmenopausal so that our hormones are not impacted.
And so the drugs that we're taking are almost like
(35:09):
golf tees. The guys get the ones that are a
little bigger and then we move the dosage up, but
we're not actually looking at the impact on hormones, so
that's a problem. Second thing that blew my mind is
that if you think about a woman's body, every single
organ of a woman's body has receptors for estrogen. Estrogen
(35:30):
is like the oil in a car. It runs everything.
And women used to have a lifespan that was less
than fifty years old, which is why if you look
at the hormone kind of ranges of women, we peak
in terms of the natural estrogen that's created in our
bodies right around the child bearing years. And if you
(35:54):
look at like life expectancy rates way back in the day. Well,
most women die before they are fifty anyways, So if
all the estrogen is gone, who cares because she doesn't
need it because she's dead. But by the time a
woman turns, and I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, but
it's something like forty years old, you have one percent
of the estrogen in your body left. If your brain
(36:15):
requires estrogen, if your muscles require estrogen, if your heart,
if every part of your body has a receptor for estrogen,
you want to know why it does because it needs
it to run. And so women for years have been
wondering why on Earth After I have kids, am I
itchy and dry and grumpy and I can't remember things?
And my body temperature is like like I literally, if
(36:39):
I'm in a cold climate and I have a hot flash,
you can actually see smoke coming off my skin like
it's and I'm like, I'm not mad at you, Chris,
I'm just like hot, honey. And so hearing this information,
it suddenly makes sense. I'm not crazy. The body that
I'm in actually has out lived the evolution of the
(37:01):
way it's designed. And so one of the reasons why
hormone replacement therapy, if it is safe for you and
for the majority of women, it is is so revolutionaries
because you're actually just putting oil back in the body
so it can run correctly. And it starts to make
sense if you think about it that way. And for
too long women have been told that they're crazy, or
(37:22):
that they're this, or that they're making their symptoms up
or this or that or the other thing, and we're
not crazy. And thankfully women are now talking about this.
Doctors are going through training because you know, doctor Mary
Claire Haveer, who is the person that came on, who
is the medical expert you know, basically said when I
was an obgen going through medical training, we literally had
(37:45):
like a couple paragraphs in a textbook to medical school
even for the clinical rotations being an obgentant. People just
didn't even know. And it turns out the research from
ten years ago that scared everybody to death about replacement
therapy was largely overblown and not correct, and it has
been mostly pulled back, and so women haven't been given
(38:08):
the information. And as you know, women of color and
from different ethnic backgrounds have even more discrimination toward them
in terms of how these things impact you based on
your DNA, based on your your heritage, based on your
skin color, based on access to care, and so.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Based on how you treated when you go to care.
Your symptoms are even at women of color, black women,
your symptoms are even less. If you think that white
women are not heard, Yes, the symptoms are just not
even acknowledged.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yes. And so one of the things that I am
hopeful about is that, you know, when I launched the
podcasts that I have, I just had this vision walk
with a friend. You know, when you take a walk
with a friend, you and I know we're gonna be
walking and talking a lot, a lot, a lot. You know,
we will be sharing all kinds of stuff that you're
not gonna be happy about. My husband's not gonna be having.
(39:01):
We're to be talking about our daughters and swapping stories
and advice, and we're both going to leave feeling better.
We're both going to feel like we have something we
want to try or do. We both feel like somebody
heard us and validated how we feel. And that's all
I wanted the podcast to be. And I also was
excited to put it in Boston because it literally is
the world's home of higher education, and how cool would
(39:22):
it be to have all of these people that are
teaching the classes and in the labs, hop on the
bikes and come on over. And that's what's been happening.
And so to have doctors that the majority of us
wouldn't even be able to get an appointment with to
come and share information that every human being deserves and
(39:43):
has a right to have access to. We're talking about
information that helps you live a healthy and happy life,
which is exactly what you're doing here. You are democratizing
information that every human being deserves to live a filled, healthy,
dignified life. And you're opening up the potential of the
(40:07):
legacy that somebody leaves through how they live it. And
if you can help people do better for themselves, for
the people that they care about, for their communities, you
are creating this ripple effect. And so for women, we
are waking up and realizing, wait a minute, like I
don't have to like you're gonna have to say let
(40:28):
them because you get angry, right, But the power is
not in somebody else being wrong. The power isn't going Okay, well,
let me focus on what I'm going to think, do
and say, and if this idiot is not treating me
the way I need to. I can leave any appointment,
I can leave any medical office. I can leave any
dining room table, any text chain, any interview, any date,
(40:50):
at any time, and I do not have to sit
here and listen to somebody in a white coat tell
me something that you know is not the way I
want to hear it. I have the power to leave
this conversation and go talk to somebody else. I have
the power to listen to this podcast and to learn
what I need to learn from somebody that has studied
this stuff. And so I'm really excited because the work
(41:13):
that you're doing and some of the topics that we're
covering are truly giving people the information that they need
in order to change their lives for the better. Because
again going back to why am I so driven to
be a person that is warm and that is sharing
information and using my life and my struggles and the
things that I wish were better or that I'm screwing
(41:35):
up as the canvas upon which I'm trying to help
and I'm trying to heal and do better myself, is
because if you don't know, you can't make it better.
If you don't know what the actual problem is, how
on Earth are you going to solve it? And so
whether it is for me being dyslexic and ADHD and
(41:57):
not getting diagnosed until I was forty seven, and I
was diagnosed the same way the majority of women are
diagnosed because my son was going through the evaluations at
school and I started going, oh, I looked for a
whole on me, And sure enough, it turns out I
didn't actually ever have anxiety. I had dyslexia and ADHD,
and nobody knew it because in the nineteen seventies when
(42:19):
they were studying ADHD, they only studied boys, and boys
present jumpie, and they have symptoms that are the exact
opposite of girls. Girls get quiet, they start to get
very very inward and hyperfocusing. Yes, so you miss it
because they can lock in and you're like, well, that
kid doesn't have ADHD. And so there is a huge
generation of women, almost thirty years of us who were
(42:42):
diagnosed with anxiety, and our teens in our twenties, and
the real issue was dyslexia. The real issue is anxiety,
and this is so sad, and we can actually change this.
And I also think a lot about the fact I
was a public defender when I came out of law school.
I for legal aid in New York City. And the
(43:03):
majority of people in prison have a learning disability. And
if you do not have an adult figure out what
you are struggling with, what adults do is they label
you a problem. And when somebody is exhibiting challenging behavior,
which you do, if you're sitting in a classroom and
(43:26):
your brain doesn't learn the way that people's brains learn,
or you can't communicate what you need, adults punish people
who are challenging. And the fact is people do well
in the can kids in particular. And it's not an
issue of motivation or capability or willpower. It's an issue
of skills that are missing and simple problems that need
(43:48):
to be solved. And so if you can change one
person's life because they listen to this and they share
it with somebody, then that's an incredible thing to do
with your life. And if my story and my struggles
and you know, look, I am happy to have struggled.
Even though I caused myself pain. I do not regret that.
(44:12):
I do wish I hadn't caused other people pain. But
if I can struggle for as long as I did,
with anxiety and with patterns of behavior that were very
painful to me and painful to other people because I
didn't know the core problems. But then I learn about it,
and now I can share it with millions of people.
(44:35):
I will take that every day. I'll take the hit.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
We'll be back shortly with more from this inspiring conversation.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
What does it shall be mean to you?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
It shall be? My husband and I got tattoos on
our fifteenth wedding an versary and I was like, we're
gonna get matching tattoos. You know we're not. And so Chris,
of course, going in he had figured his out and
I was panic stricken because I could not figure out
what to do.
Speaker 4 (45:12):
And his was really good.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Oh yes, he won, and I was so annoyed once
he told me because it was so good.
Speaker 8 (45:17):
He has he has the tattoo right here and it
says one gate. And he used to be a ski
racer growing up, and his dad always used to tell him,
who passed away in two thousand and seven, always used
to tell him, just take one gate like a ski
gate at a time, Just take one gate at a time,
Just take one gate at a time. And he translated
(45:39):
that to like one day, one moment, one second, and
he is like the most calm Buddhist zen person I've
ever been. Really, yes, so present, he's a death doula.
He's so incredible. But he took letters from his dad
and gotten oh and gotten in and got an eve
(46:02):
and got a gee and got it morphed together and
put on his on his arm.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
And of course, being the bitch that I am, when
he came and told me that profound story and you've
got your hand over your heart, I was like, oh.
Speaker 8 (46:16):
What am I going to do?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
If I had heard it back then, I would have
been able to regulate myself like me.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
And so I was just panic stricken because we were
about to go to the appointment and a friends and
I'm like, I still don't know what to get, and
she goes, you should get it. She'll be I'm like why,
And she said, will you say that all the time?
I said, what do you mean? She said, oh, you
always tell me if you just put your head down
and you chip away at it and you give up
your timeline, it shall be. I didn't even know I
(46:51):
said it. And so then we get to the tattoo
parlor so I'm like, okay, I do that, and I
realized I didn't have a font. So then I'm on
their laptop looking at the drop down menu on word,
like what should I do?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
And that was may I actually a moment because it's
words and I have one to.
Speaker 7 (47:10):
These are imagining family so we can capture.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Well, mine's on my wrist.
Speaker 4 (47:17):
And mine's on the side of my right.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Beautiful, so you have three almost like the Bethlehem Star.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
So your dad your acual like everybody.
Speaker 8 (47:27):
The whole experience was inspired by my grandmother, my dad's mom,
who she is shout out to JJ. She is actually
the grandmother I went to Cambodia with and taught English with.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
And she is eighty seven years old.
Speaker 8 (47:43):
She's literally walks four miles every single day.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
She's four eleven.
Speaker 8 (47:49):
She is the energy of a firecracker. She is the
most amazing human being in the world.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
And she had a friend of hers who.
Speaker 8 (48:02):
Is dying, was dying and she asked her friend, what
do you think happens when you die? And without with
all conviction, her friend had said, I'm going to be
a star, and I'm going to be a star. All
of us are going to be stars. If you look
up at the sky at night, there's billions and billions
(48:23):
and billions of stars. And the reason behind that is
because when you go up and you become a star,
a star, you can then look over all of your
family members, and shooting stars are stars that travel to
other people to see different people. And so then JJ
was like, I'm going to get a star tattooed on me.
(48:43):
And she's eighty seven and so first tattoo. And so
then of course when she told me, I was like, well,
I need to get a star because I'm going to
be a star and you're going to be a star.
And then so all five of us, our entire family, Me, Mom, Dad, Oakley,
Kendall and JJ, we all got our tattoo appointment and
(49:03):
went and we all have different stars yep.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
And then I put our whole family like, so I
have this, I have a Sawyer star in an Oakley
and Chris and me and and.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
I have one star and five dots for every single
one of the.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Well, it's one of my best friends who she actually
is a death doula really and she was with my
mom when my mom passed, and it was the most
incredible gift that anyone could give to give us. And
she also has something she created called Star Day and
it's it's when you celebrate your ancestors on the day
(49:36):
that they went to go back to live in the stars.
So I need to get you wrote a children's book
and it's and so yeah, I'm telling you we are well, well,
you know, I'll get you the whole book and it's
all about that. And then you celebrate that day that
they went back to be in the stars, and so
you you eat their favorite food and you you talked about.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Oh my gosh, I love that.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
I love you.
Speaker 8 (50:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (50:02):
Great concept.
Speaker 7 (50:04):
Well, something that we are contemplating a lot and would
love to get your theory on is the difference between
the Western concept of happiness versus fulfillment and fulfillment as
a source from within, a source from love, and the
Western concept of happiness is this treadmill that we can
ever often ever achieve because we're always seeking the next thing.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Well, the cool thing about the distinction that I'm going
to share with you is that it comes from someone's research.
And the person I'm going to cite is doctor Tall
Ben Shahar. It was one of the kind of original
rockstar happiness professors at one of the Ivy League schools,
(50:45):
and he has this concept that I love because happiness.
What we get wrong about it is we believe that
there is a thing out there that will make you
happy all the time. And the problem with that is
once you get the thing, your happiness or your excitement
(51:06):
or enthusiasm, whatever you call it, just disappears right away
because you got the thing. And we have this relentless
need to feel good. So we're constantly looking out there
and we think, well, maybe the car, or maybe you know,
it's the boyfriend or the girlfriend, or maybe it's a
certain dollar in the bank, or maybe it's a certain
number on the scale, or it's a certain friend group
(51:27):
or whatever that is going to create this feeling inside
me that I sow not only want, but you actually
deserve to feel good in your life. But we're going
about it wrong. And so he basically says, anytime you
want something out there, it's like staring at the sun
if you look directly at the sun, just like you
(51:47):
look directly at your bank account and say I'm gonna
be happy if I have a million dollars in that
bank account. You're going to get sun spots, and you're
going to be blinded and you're going to be miserable
as you're trying to get it, because because you're going
to think you're only going to feel good once you
get there. Instead, he says, I want you to take
(52:09):
the sun and put it through a prism and it
creates a rainbow. And when you realize that that's what's
available to you right now, that's what you can bring
into your life right now, that it's not really out there.
It's all the things that you can take in and
bring in here that truly create fulfillment.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
So sorrya Martan.
Speaker 6 (52:39):
What's one thing you'd want your mom to know about
the impact she's had on your life.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
So much?
Speaker 8 (52:51):
But the first thing that came to mind is, I
think growing up, I thought that my legacy was being
mel Robinson's daughter, and I think in writing this book together.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
And just getting to spend so much time.
Speaker 8 (53:18):
With you, but it's actually a lot bigger than that,
and it's the Latin theory and it's so many more
things that I have not achieved, and so thank you
for opening that vision for me.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I love you, I love you, and you know what
I'm gonna tell you, Oh God, I had the easy part.
I just had to learn to create the space for
you to see it yourself. Proud of you, I.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Gotta say, I got three kids and so just listening
to you and.
Speaker 5 (53:58):
Away a lot for work.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
To see the two of you, as you said, go
through your journey, but be at this incredibly strong place together,
to see you work together, create together. To hear the
love in your voice. Oh my god, I love the
honesty and everything about the conversation. Love them for who
they are, and love them for who they are not
(54:21):
my god. I think we can all reflect on that
with our family and friends. Can't control others, you know,
we just need to let them and to let me.
Speaker 5 (54:32):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
And you can only meet someone as deeply as you've
met yourself. And it has been such a gift for
all of us to spend so much time with both
of you and to have this extraordinary experience as mother
and daughter and friend and co journeer on this together.
So thank you to both of you for leaving an
(54:55):
extraordinary legacy. Every single day.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Thank you, thank you for this experience. So what a
beautiful experience that you've created for us to be able
to dig deeper into our own experience and what we've learned,
sometimes a hard way, always always amazing. Wow.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Thank you for joining us. We are so grateful to
have you as part of this journey. If you enjoy
today's conversation, subscribe and share the podcast with friends, family,
and loved ones, and follow us on social media. You
can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at my
Legacy Movement. You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel
(55:48):
at my Legacy Movement. At the heart of this podcast
is doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the
power of connection. Produced by Legacy Plus Studio in partnership
with iHeartRadio creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward, co executive
producer Lisa Lyle, editing an av by Garcia creator. My
(56:10):
Legacy podcast is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts. Until next time, may you find
connection and inspiration to live your most fulfilled life.
I didn't learn as till I was fifty four years old.
If I had known this way back when, I would
literally not have been a walking red flag for most
of my life. I would not have taken my stress
out on my family. I would have been more peaceful
and more powerful because I had no idea how much
power I'd given to other people.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And that was the incredible male Robbins with a powerful
realization that reshaped our relationships, her family, and even her
sense of self. And she's about to share it with us.
This is My Legacy a podcast hosted by me and
my husband, Martin Luther King, the third oldest son of
doctor Martin Luther King Junior and Coretta Scott King. Together
(00:48):
we're caring for their iconic legacy of equality, peace and
justice for all. Plus we're joined by our good friends
New York Times best selling authors Mark and Craig Kilberger.
Last week we began an unforgettable conversation with mel and
her daughter Sawyer. It's the first interview they've ever done together,
and we were all a part of it. It was raw,
(01:11):
emotional and filled with moments that had all of us laughing, crying,
and rethinking the way we approached love, family, and forgiveness.
If you thought part one was eye opening, get ready
for part two, as Mel reveals her transformative let Them theory,
how it healed her and Sawyer's relationship, and her invaluable
(01:33):
wisdom for overcoming heartbreak. Let's pick up right where we
left off. Welcome to my legacy.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Mel, your new book, The Left Them Theory. It encourages
people to just let control go over other people's choices.
And the part that I love is that you said
it helped to heal and fortify your relationship with your daughter.
Can you share both the theory and how it brought
you closer together?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Absolutely so. The leat thein theory is a simple mindset
tool that helps you identify, literally in a moment, what's
in your control and what's not in your control, and
the way that you use it is very simple. If
you're in a situation and some other person is stressing
you out or upsetting you or offending you, or you're
worried about them, or they're treating you poorly, you literally
(02:18):
say let them because the number one thing in life
that you will never ever, ever ever be able to
control is another human being. You can't control what they think.
You can't control what they do. You cannot control how
they feel, period, And any psychologists will tell you that
any time that you spend trying to only makes you
feel more stressed, out, frustrated, and out of control and
(02:43):
the problem for all of us. And I didn't learn
this so I was fifty four years old. If I
had known this way back when, I would literally not
have been a walking red flag for most of my life.
I would not have taken my stress out of my family,
have been more peaceful and more powerful because I had
(03:03):
no idea how much power I'd given to other people,
and neither nobody does, because we don't understand how we're
turning other people into the problem. And I've got very
important and exciting information, and it says, if you feel
tired in life, if you are frustrated, if you're stuck,
if you're stressed out, if you feel like you never
(03:24):
have time for yourself, if you're just not as happy
as you'd like to be, the problem isn't you. The
problem is you're unknowingly giving power to other people, and
you do it in four ways. You allow them to
stress you out, you worry about and you manage what
they're thinking. You navigate your life based on their moods
(03:45):
and their opinions and their disappointment and their guilt and
their expectations, and you paralyze yourself because you're chronically comparing
yourself to them and telling yourself that if they're successful
or they're this, then I can't have it, and it's
simply not true. And what the let them theory does
is that any situation that you're in, and you're going
(04:05):
to use it with your family more than anybody, because
I think family teaches you how to love people you
hate sometimes, right, you gotta let them because you're not
going to change them. And what you will learn as
you start to use this is people only change when
they feel like changing. People only change when they're ready
to change. People only change when they're ready to do
(04:26):
the hard work to change. And the other piece that
you have to embrace is that we think worrying about
or pressuring or judging or pushing people to change motivates
people to change. It's actually the opposite. If you look
at the wiring of a human being, everybody has a
fundamental need for control. When you're in control of what
(04:48):
you're thinking about in your decisions and your future and
the environment that you're in, you actually feel safe. And
the problem is if Martin's doing something that is worrying now,
his behavior is something I want to control. But Martin
has the same need to control his life as I do.
(05:08):
So when I start to push on Martin or suggests
that Martin should do this or should do that, what
does Martin do? Martin pushes back because he needs to
be in control. And I didn't realize that I was
creating so much unnecessary friction and frustration and distance with
(05:28):
people in my life. I didn't realize how much time
and energy I was losing, because you know, let's just
take a simple example. You're at the grocery store and
there's five people in front of you and there's one cashier.
We've all been there, right, yes, And immediately the stress
(05:49):
rises up inside you. And then all of a sudden,
you get agitated, and then you start thinking why are
they not calling it? And then you're looking around, and
then you start thinking you can run the store better
than anybody, right, And now let's just stop and actually
really look at what this is. This is you giving
power to something that you do not control and When
(06:10):
you do that, a number of things happen. Number one,
did you notice as the stress goes up, your life
force energy goes out. So you are allowing stupid, meaningless,
all kinds of irritating people that are beneath you and
not worth your time and energy. You are allowing it
(06:31):
to exhaust you, and you don't have to. And the
solution is just to say let them, and immediately you
feel peace because what you're doing is you're tapping into
a tremendous like I feel like I've got everybody's ancestors
with me. Because this is an application of stoicism, of Buddhism,
of radical acceptance, of detachment, theory of literally not reacting
(06:59):
and staying in your piece, and then something interesting happens.
You say the second part, which is let me, let
me remind myself that in any situation, I have power
because there are three things I can control. I can
control what I think about. Next, I can control what
I do or I don't do. Because you can leave
the supermarket. You could if you never have time to
(07:24):
talk to your friends, you could pick up the phone
and call your friend or your grandma. You could practice meditation.
You could say a prayer if you say, let me
and remind yourself that you have power, right, And so
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And also you said, you know all of these different ancestors,
you're bringing in the ancestor of Martin Luther King junior
in the whole civil rights movement. Yes, because I think
what people also forget is that when you're talking about
the lunch counters, when you're talking about the freedom.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Writers, yes they trained. Yes, you know, they.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Didn't just go in you know, and so and I'll
be non reactious.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yes, and it was a.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Lot of what exactly that you're talking about, and let
them like this is like they're going to do this. Yes,
I you know, I choose, I choose how then I
will respond to that. And what I also think is
important is like you have to it is training.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It is you know, you have to think about it
and you have to.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, it is disciplined. And here's the other thing it
is because a lot of people hear this and then
they'll say, wait, you're just allowing people to walk all
over you, You're allowing people to abuse you. And I'm like,
oh no, it's the opposite, because you're actually allowing it. Now,
when you say let them, it's almost like you're allowing
it without allowing it, because you're saying, I see the
(08:47):
reality here, and I see that I can't control this,
and so I choose my response because I know I
do have power. And oftentimes the best response is no response.
The response is peace. And we give too much energy
and too much fear into things we can't control, and
(09:07):
in doing so, we blind ourselves to the fact that
you always have control. And whether you're talking about a
family dynamic, or you're talking about a community, or you're
talking about a world at large, I see. I find
it just so sad and fascinating that we always let
the most challenging and toxic behavior seem to get all
(09:28):
the power. But I actually think the opposite is true.
I believe that the person that is peaceful, I believe
that the person that understands their power. I believe the
person who actually constantly reminds themselves, wait a minute, I
have power here because I have power over my thoughts,
I have power over my actions. I have power over
(09:49):
how I allow my emotions to rise and fall. And
it's inside that power that any single person can change
something for the better.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, that's what because you're responding and not reacting. Yes,
and responding is when you come from a place of power.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes. And it's also how you take personal responsibility. Let's
talk about responsibility, because the word responsibility is just the
ability to respond and everybody has that. And so when
you really remind yourself of that, now you can be
(10:29):
the person that changes everything. Because it just takes one
person to change the energy and dynamic in a family.
It takes one person who cares enough to change the
politics in a country. It takes one person to just
shift everything. And if you don't like where you're at,
(10:49):
or you don't like where your family's at, or you
don't like something in a relationship, or you don't like
something in the world at large, that one person is you.
And as long as you give your time and energy,
and you give other people power their opinions, there all
of it that none of what you can control. You
are not present to the power you actually have and
(11:10):
the time and the energy that you need to create
the change that you're capable of changing.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Two thoughts come to mind as you're speaking. One of them.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It's like the serenity prayers my grandmother would always say.
Our grandmother would alway talk about, you know, change the
things you can, you know, forget the things you can't.
Was the difference. But the second thought that came through
my mind was as you talked about that, the lack
of reaction. It is like the nonviolence movement. Nonviolence is
not non action, and the let them is that power
to not let the negative drive your choices. But in fact,
(11:41):
even under the toughest circumstances, you have the ability still
to respond. And Martin, I think of the most extraordinary thing.
I think one of the most extraordinary acts of courage.
Wasn't only your dad, there's also your grandfather.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Yeah, so I think everyone knows that my father was
assassinated I was ten years old. My father's mother was
also assassinated in the church while playing the Lord's prayer.
And again my grandfather, as a minister, had been preaching forgiveness.
It's one thing to preach that, but then to have
(12:16):
to practice it and exemplify it. Because you've gone through
this situation, you're telling all your parishioners, yes, because you
can say that, but now you can say, from a
personal standpoint, I haven't impacted. But this is the way
I choose. I choose to forgive, I choose to continue
to show up in love. And he did that many
(12:40):
in many ways throughout his sermons, basically saying, I refuse
to allow a man that killed my lovely wife nor
my son to.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Reduce me to hatred.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
I love everybody. I'm every man's brother. That was a
choice that impacted us directly, meaning my siblings and I
obviously my mom and siblings and I, even though we
had learned it as children, now we had to live
through it. And again a choice because we could have
chosen to be angry and hostile and hateful. This is
what I can control. This is how I'm gonna choose
(13:12):
to live my life, and hopefully it sets an example.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
For others well.
Speaker 7 (13:16):
And didn't let hatred come into his heart?
Speaker 6 (13:18):
No, he did not.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
He did not allow that.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
One thing I do want to say that this reminds
me so much because when I speak, and I use
the story a lot as relates to our nation and world,
but I think it also relates to everything personal. And
I talk about the story of the two wolves, heard
that story, and I talk about the fact that that
little girl goes up to her grandmother and says that
(13:43):
you know, grandmother, that there is a war going on
inside of me. And there are these two wolves in
their battle, and I'm not sure which one is gonna win,
because one is full of anger and bitterness and hatred
and hostility, and yet there's another wolf that's full of
love and nobleness and peacefulness, and they're really out of battle,
and I grandmother tell me what to do.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Who's going to win?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And our grandmother looked at her and said, the wolf
that you feed. And I think that this reminds me
let them like, we get to choose what wolf are
we going to feed? We get to choose that in
the world, and that's the wolf that we'll win. And
we get to also choose that as individuals, and we
have to decide every day what wolf we're going to
(14:27):
be feeding.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
More with Mel Robbins and her daughter about how their
new book transformed their relationship.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
We'll be right back afterword from our partners.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
We're back with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer on
my legacy, Andre. The next question is yours.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Now, Sawyer, when you're writing this book together, you're actually
working on a relationship, chap or why you were going
through a breakup, correct, do you mind? Can you talk
just a little bit about that and maybe give someone
advice that is going through a very heart breakup. You know,
(15:15):
it's particularly when you're well at any age.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 8 (15:20):
So ironically, actually I was writing the breakup chapter, or
starting to write it, and that morning and then that
night I got broken up with And so then the
next morning I'm like, this is horrible.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I can't let them move on.
Speaker 8 (15:41):
Rip delete, delete, delete, And but then I really thought
about it, and over the course of a few months, like,
I was so upset, and I think when someone goes
through a breakup, there.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Is no good advice.
Speaker 8 (16:00):
There's no toolkit, there's no YouTube video, there is nothing
anyone can say to make you feel better. And what
people often tell you is the generic, oh, you just
have to learn to love yourself again, which at that point.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
You hate yourself.
Speaker 8 (16:18):
You feel ugly, you feel undesired, you feel unloved and rejected.
And so I really wanted, as we continued to write
this chapter together, to make sure that the person reading
it actually could put as Mal always does, but put
(16:39):
action towards it. It's not just some blank advice where
you don't actually know what to do, and so we
both have the same therapist and Davin smartest woman in
the world. And what Ann told me to do is well,
first she explained that when you go through a breakup
(17:00):
that it's actually you and your partner or your past partner.
Your bodies and your neurological makeup is intertwined, and so
actually what's happening is they're breaking patterns in your body.
And that impulse to text them fifteen times a day,
(17:22):
or feeling like they are sleeping next to you, or
you can hear them in the car, or you want
to call them and tell them about something, all of
those little impulses in your body are because the pattern
is so locked in and interwined that the process of
a breakup is actually about breaking those patterns in your body.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yes, and it's so hardened.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
So it's actually grief because when you go through a breakup,
it is the death of a future or a person.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
That is no longer here.
Speaker 8 (17:57):
And so I think as we were writing the breakup chapter,
I wanted to make sure that we had.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Really actual advice.
Speaker 8 (18:08):
And so what I will tell to all of you
who are listening, if you are going through a breakup,
is first of all, you're not alone. And second of
all is I encourage you to do what me and
Mel call a thirty day rule. And the thirty day
rule or reset or all of that is basically to
(18:28):
cut contact for thirty days. And that doesn't just mean
don't reach out to them, don't text them. It means
you cannot look at any photos, any voice, memos.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Social media, no social media. You can snapchat and mute everything.
Speaker 8 (18:44):
Because what happens, and this is what and described to me,
is that every single time you reach out to them,
or you hear their voice which is especially really bad,
or you're looking through past photos. Every single time you
do that, it re in states the neurological pathways in
your body to that convinces you that they are still
(19:06):
around and they're still in your life, and they're not
that life is no longer, and so you are basically
trying every time you connect with one of those items
or photos, it prolongs the heartbreak, It prolongs the grief,
and so we encourage everyone to do a thirty day
(19:27):
reset and do not reach out to them.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And that's where they let them comes in because you're
gonna have to say how many times a day? Would
you say?
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Let them like twenty times a day?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
And then do you literally block because I know, like
okay mail. Back in our days, you know we could
just you know, you know, block the phone number or
not look at photos. So does that mean now for
your age our doors, does that mean no social media?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Like?
Speaker 4 (19:52):
So do you everything?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Do you physically block your social media?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Like just like you know, you can't it sober until
you quit drinking.
Speaker 8 (20:01):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And while you go through that process, your body's going
to go through withdrawal because you're learning how to live
life without it. And that's why you have to say,
let them, let them leave, let them move on, let
them hook up with somebody else, and let me remind
myself that they're gone. Let me remind myself that every
time I look at their location or I listen to
a voice memo, that I am keeping myself trapped in
(20:25):
a life that no longer exists. And so it is
a form of grief. And the hardest thing about being
a parent is that when you see somebody that you
love struggling, you would put yourself in front of a
moving car in order to take it away. But When
you do that, you basically communicate to somebody that I
don't believe you're strong enough to handle this. And so
(20:46):
I had to let her grieve. I had to let
her wear pajamas and sit in her bed for three days.
I had to let her ask me to remove him
from the digital camera rotation situation. And as I'm like
going pause, pause, because I'm even pausing it because I'm like,
maybe looking back together, maybe look at back, you know,
and so let them, let them, let them, and let
(21:07):
me remind myself that I cannot heal for her. Yeah,
let me remind myself that she is capable of moving
through this. Let me remind myself it's not my job
to take her pain away. It's my job to comfort
her in her pain.
Speaker 8 (21:26):
And what I will also say why I think the
Latin theory is so powerful is obviously when you use it.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
It's with my ex.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
I was just saying let them constantly to myself, But
you can also use it in communication because at first
you are not so amazing.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
As you described.
Speaker 8 (21:46):
She was always trying to talk about it, always trying
to say are you okay?
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Are you okay?
Speaker 8 (21:51):
And I would say I am trying to let you,
let them, let you have your own process through this,
because I know you are also losing someone in your
life and something you.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
And vision was going to happen.
Speaker 8 (22:06):
And at the same time, I need you to let
me cry and be depressed and eat bond bonds every
single night and just leave me alone a little bit,
and I need you to let me take a break
and to not talk about it and to come to
you when I need you, and I promise I will.
(22:29):
And so I feel like you can also use it
in communication, which acknowledges what you want, but it also
acknowledges what I need and what I want.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, it really brought us like and this is what
I mean, like the process of it, of writing this
book and researching this book, it really and using the
let them theory and exploring it around love and stress
and struggles and trying to change other people because that's
what we do, right. We want we, you know, wanting
someone to do better, wanting someone to be motivated, wanting
(23:01):
someone to forgive. That's a beautiful thing to see possibility
for someone else. That's not the problem. The problem is
how we go about it, and we don't realize we're
working against the wiring of human beings and when you
should push yourself, but when it comes to the people
in your life, you actually have to let them live
(23:21):
their lives because it creates space for true connection and
change to be. I mean, after all, love is truly
loving somebody for who they are and for who they're not.
And a lot of us live up here and we
really are living in the possibility and in the fantasy,
(23:42):
but we are not truly accepting and connecting with the
reality of the person that we wake up next to
or we sit across the table with. And all we
want is to feel like the people that are in
our lives actually see us for who we are. And
you know, do you want to know? And oftentimes it's true,
especially when we think we know best, and we underestimate
(24:03):
how hard people are already working. The hardest working person,
for example, in a classroom is not the kid getting a's.
It's the kid who's failing. The person who is actually
working the hardest on their weight is the person who's unhealthy.
People know when they're not thriving, People know when they're
not reaching their potential. People know when they're quietly quitting
(24:26):
on themselves. And so when you and I, with the
best of our intentions, keep going, why do you keep
dating these losers? Or can't you be more motivated, or
you know, why wouldn't you take better care of yourself?
That just adds more pressure on top of somebody who
already feels like they're not measuring up and they're in
deep conflict with themselves. And when you learn to let
(24:48):
someone cry it out, you learn to let someone learn
from the greatest teacher in the world, which is life.
When you do not shield people from the consequences of
their decisions, but instead you stand by their side and
you believe in the power that they have to meet
the challenges of their life, then you create the space
(25:11):
for a human being to reach their own potential on
their own timeline. And what happened for us is I
think so many relationships, particularly in family. I don't know
how you guys feel about your relationship with your daughter,
but there's that intense love and then there's that like,
oh right, and we were like a death by a
thousand cuts with one another. We're constantly missing the mark
(25:35):
a little bit, and then one of us would be
offended or annoyed and then she'd go off, and then
I'd go after and we'd try to talk, and then
I'd try to buy or something like whatever, let's just
make this go away, and you would then manipulate and
be like, let's go to them all because now we're
going to be like, oh my god. That I'd be
mad because I'd be like, I just watched all this stuff,
and now you're not nice to me. But what were
gonna say?
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Oh no, I was just gonna say.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
I think within a very short summary our relationship, and
this is what I haven't.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Described yet, but too.
Speaker 8 (26:04):
Like two years ago, I was we were doing some therapy,
and I had this vision of me as like an infant,
like one or two months old, and it was as
if I was looking up. I was in a crib
and I was looking up into this at the ceiling,
and I remember wanting my mom to come, and she,
(26:30):
like my dad, kept coming to pick me up. Or
this woman who her name was Jonie Twining, who helped
during the postpartum depression with her and her giving birth
to me, kept picking me up, and all I wanted
was my mom.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
And all I wanted was my mom.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
And she never came, and I honestly think that is
a real memory. And when I started going through childhood,
I think her working all the time reaffirm that in
my mind is that I always wanted her to come
and like pick me up and be with me and
give me attention and make me feel like I mattered,
(27:09):
And she was off doing amazing things.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
But always away.
Speaker 8 (27:16):
So it confirmed to me that, at least in my mind,
that I didn't matter. And so I think then that
is what created the tension between us. Is I then
developed the mindset, well, I don't need you and I
don't want you, and I can do this on my own,
and I'm gonna go to Cambodia and I'm going to
go to Asia, and I don't need any of your
(27:37):
money or any of your help, and I'm never working
for you. And and I think that at the same time,
like all I wanted was to be near her and
to be her and looking.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Up to her.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
And it wasn't until we finally started working together this
entire past year that I obviously, I think it not
only brought us closer in proximity, which helps, but I
think the let them theory and using the let them
theory with each other is actually what healed that entire separation,
(28:16):
because I was finally able to let her be who
she is without wanting to change her and without wanting to, like,
without getting mad at her all the time because of little.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Things that I thought we were annoying.
Speaker 8 (28:31):
Or I thought we're disrespectful, or I wanted her attention
on me versus someone else. And so I think that
it wasn't until I was able to say, let them
and acknowledge.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
This is who she is.
Speaker 8 (28:42):
She's freaking crazy and pisses me off and is the
creative and I'm like the OCD organization. So writing a
book was very dramatic sometimes, but it wasn't until I
was able to let her be who she is and
accept it and have more compassion and more of a
(29:04):
lens into everything that she goes through every day and
how much work she actually does. Oh my gosh, Like
when I joined the company, I couldn't even believe how
many areas and how many people rely on her and
how big the company is.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
And I, like my siblings don't know that. They would
have never known that.
Speaker 8 (29:22):
They still probably will never know that because they don't
see her in her everyday element.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
But again, I.
Speaker 8 (29:29):
Couldn't just let them, because then I felt, whenever you
just let them, you can find yourself very lonely or
without many friends because you feel superior.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
You're like, I'm better than them. Let them, I'm the
bigger person. Let them. I don't have to do anything.
I'm gonna sit in my silence. I'm gonna cut off this.
Speaker 8 (29:51):
Relationship, let them, let them, let them. I know I
can't control you, but I'm not gonna do anything about it.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
But it wasn't until I started saying let me, like
I am.
Speaker 8 (30:00):
I am in control of me and my mom's relationship.
She's not in control of our relationship. I am, And
so I need to show up differently. I need to
be more open. I need to have more open arms.
I need to let me. Except that she's going to
rewrite the manuscript eleven times, and I'm going to let them,
(30:20):
and I'm gonna let me.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And the corresponding thing happened to me because again, it's
about peace internally and what you can control, and it's
about learning to allow people to be who they are
and see them, perhaps for the very first time. And
I think it's very easy. As a child, I know
I did this with my parents to forget this is
their first time being a human being, this is their
(30:43):
parent that you can only give people what's been given
to you. You can only meet someone as deeply as
you've met yourself. And I think it was Oprah that
tells a story about how you know if you're a
person that needs a gallon of love and somebody has
only a quarter cup to give. If they give you
the quarter cup, they've given you everything. It just didn't
(31:07):
feel adequate for what you needed, which is that mismatch
I'm talking about. And so it creates so much more
compassion because it forces you to really see people for
who they are and who they aren't, not through the
lens of judgment, but through acceptance. And then when you
say they let me part, it is true. I am
(31:30):
responsible for our relationship, just like she said, She's responsible
because I'm responsible for the energy that I bring. Just
like your grandfather said, I'm responsible for the peace inside me.
Why on earth would I give it to this person?
And so I'm going to take the power back because
that's where the power lies. And so what I started
to notice, because just like my creativity and ADHD drives
(31:54):
are absolutely bananas her intensity and the Excel spreadsheets and
the this is like, I can't think like that. And
then she would get all front and I'd be like,
let her, let her go upstairs to a room and
remove herself because she needs to, and let me not
go try to solve this. And what I also noticed
is that when I wasn't so frustrated or there wasn't
(32:18):
a lot of tension between us, I actually saw what
I wanted, which was I wanted to hug her. I
wanted to go check on her, not through a place
of changing, but through loving.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
One of the things that I keep feeling as I'm
looking at both of you, but particularly you Sawyer, is
that the whole the Rich Shoes and at the end
of the Wizard of Oz and when she was told
that it was within you, all alone, exactly all your
powers always yeah, And so that I feel like the journey,
even that you've been on up into this point, one
(32:54):
of the things I just want to say to you,
I just you know that the power has been within
you all of the Thank.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
You, grab a refill on your coffee or tea, because
you won't want to miss the rest of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
We'll be right back. You're listening to my legacy.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
We're back with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer Andre.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Go ahead and take it away.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Okay, So menopause is having a well deserved moment, right
and gen X and younger women are really starting to
have a conversation about everything that goes with it and
to know that we need answers. So as you are
(33:44):
someone that's asking all of the experts and all of
those aging questions that so many women have been too
embarrassed to ask for too long, I think that we
think that everything stops at childbearing and that's it. And
then you know, so, how have you seen this empower
your listeners? And then what have you heard from them?
Speaker 1 (34:06):
This is an excellent question. So just to give you
a sense of just how important of a topic this is,
Apple just named an episode that we did on menopause
with one of the leading female doctors on it as
the number two most downloaded and shared episode of any
(34:27):
podcast anywhere in the world of the year this year.
And the reason why this is important is because there
is every single day. I think their research is eight
thousand women in our menopause. And what I didn't know
because this is like a gigantic what how could I
(34:47):
get through life? And not no simple facts like this,
Like I had no idea that women were not actually
included in clinical research until the nineteen eighties because of
our hormones are fluctuating, so it can throw off clinical
t trials, and even to this day, they mostly use
women that are postmenopausal so that our hormones are not impacted.
And so the drugs that we're taking are almost like
(35:09):
golf tees. The guys get the ones that are a
little bigger and then we move the dosage up, but
we're not actually looking at the impact on hormones, so
that's a problem. Second thing that blew my mind is
that if you think about a woman's body, every single
organ of a woman's body has receptors for estrogen. Estrogen
(35:30):
is like the oil in a car. It runs everything.
And women used to have a lifespan that was less
than fifty years old, which is why if you look
at the hormone kind of ranges of women, we peak
in terms of the natural estrogen that's created in our
bodies right around the child bearing years. And if you
(35:54):
look at like life expectancy rates way back in the day. Well,
most women die before they are fifty anyways, So if
all the estrogen is gone, who cares because she doesn't
need it because she's dead. But by the time a
woman turns, and I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, but
it's something like forty years old, you have one percent
of the estrogen in your body left. If your brain
(36:15):
requires estrogen, if your muscles require estrogen, if your heart,
if every part of your body has a receptor for estrogen,
you want to know why it does because it needs
it to run. And so women for years have been
wondering why on Earth After I have kids, am I
itchy and dry and grumpy and I can't remember things?
And my body temperature is like like I literally, if
(36:39):
I'm in a cold climate and I have a hot flash,
you can actually see smoke coming off my skin like
it's and I'm like, I'm not mad at you, Chris,
I'm just like hot, honey. And so hearing this information,
it suddenly makes sense. I'm not crazy. The body that
I'm in actually has out lived the evolution of the
(37:01):
way it's designed. And so one of the reasons why
hormone replacement therapy, if it is safe for you and
for the majority of women, it is is so revolutionaries
because you're actually just putting oil back in the body
so it can run correctly. And it starts to make
sense if you think about it that way. And for
too long women have been told that they're crazy, or
(37:22):
that they're this, or that they're making their symptoms up
or this or that or the other thing, and we're
not crazy. And thankfully women are now talking about this.
Doctors are going through training because you know, doctor Mary
Claire Haveer, who is the person that came on, who
is the medical expert you know, basically said when I
was an obgen going through medical training, we literally had
(37:45):
like a couple paragraphs in a textbook to medical school
even for the clinical rotations being an obgentant. People just
didn't even know. And it turns out the research from
ten years ago that scared everybody to death about replacement
therapy was largely overblown and not correct, and it has
been mostly pulled back, and so women haven't been given
(38:08):
the information. And as you know, women of color and
from different ethnic backgrounds have even more discrimination toward them
in terms of how these things impact you based on
your DNA, based on your your heritage, based on your
skin color, based on access to care, and so.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Based on how you treated when you go to care.
Your symptoms are even at women of color, black women,
your symptoms are even less. If you think that white
women are not heard, Yes, the symptoms are just not
even acknowledged.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yes. And so one of the things that I am
hopeful about is that, you know, when I launched the
podcasts that I have, I just had this vision walk
with a friend. You know, when you take a walk
with a friend, you and I know we're gonna be
walking and talking a lot, a lot, a lot. You know,
we will be sharing all kinds of stuff that you're
not gonna be happy about. My husband's not gonna be having.
(39:01):
We're to be talking about our daughters and swapping stories
and advice, and we're both going to leave feeling better.
We're both going to feel like we have something we
want to try or do. We both feel like somebody
heard us and validated how we feel. And that's all
I wanted the podcast to be. And I also was
excited to put it in Boston because it literally is
the world's home of higher education, and how cool would
(39:22):
it be to have all of these people that are
teaching the classes and in the labs, hop on the
bikes and come on over. And that's what's been happening.
And so to have doctors that the majority of us
wouldn't even be able to get an appointment with to
come and share information that every human being deserves and
(39:43):
has a right to have access to. We're talking about
information that helps you live a healthy and happy life,
which is exactly what you're doing here. You are democratizing
information that every human being deserves to live a filled, healthy,
dignified life. And you're opening up the potential of the
(40:07):
legacy that somebody leaves through how they live it. And
if you can help people do better for themselves, for
the people that they care about, for their communities, you
are creating this ripple effect. And so for women, we
are waking up and realizing, wait a minute, like I
don't have to like you're gonna have to say let
(40:28):
them because you get angry, right, But the power is
not in somebody else being wrong. The power isn't going Okay, well,
let me focus on what I'm going to think, do
and say, and if this idiot is not treating me
the way I need to. I can leave any appointment,
I can leave any medical office. I can leave any
dining room table, any text chain, any interview, any date,
(40:50):
at any time, and I do not have to sit
here and listen to somebody in a white coat tell
me something that you know is not the way I
want to hear it. I have the power to leave
this conversation and go talk to somebody else. I have
the power to listen to this podcast and to learn
what I need to learn from somebody that has studied
this stuff. And so I'm really excited because the work
(41:13):
that you're doing and some of the topics that we're
covering are truly giving people the information that they need
in order to change their lives for the better. Because
again going back to why am I so driven to
be a person that is warm and that is sharing
information and using my life and my struggles and the
things that I wish were better or that I'm screwing
(41:35):
up as the canvas upon which I'm trying to help
and I'm trying to heal and do better myself, is
because if you don't know, you can't make it better.
If you don't know what the actual problem is, how
on Earth are you going to solve it? And so
whether it is for me being dyslexic and ADHD and
(41:57):
not getting diagnosed until I was forty seven, and I
was diagnosed the same way the majority of women are
diagnosed because my son was going through the evaluations at
school and I started going, oh, I looked for a
whole on me, And sure enough, it turns out I
didn't actually ever have anxiety. I had dyslexia and ADHD,
and nobody knew it because in the nineteen seventies when
(42:19):
they were studying ADHD, they only studied boys, and boys
present jumpie, and they have symptoms that are the exact
opposite of girls. Girls get quiet, they start to get
very very inward and hyperfocusing. Yes, so you miss it
because they can lock in and you're like, well, that
kid doesn't have ADHD. And so there is a huge
generation of women, almost thirty years of us who were
(42:42):
diagnosed with anxiety, and our teens in our twenties, and
the real issue was dyslexia. The real issue is anxiety,
and this is so sad, and we can actually change this.
And I also think a lot about the fact I
was a public defender when I came out of law school.
I for legal aid in New York City. And the
(43:03):
majority of people in prison have a learning disability. And
if you do not have an adult figure out what
you are struggling with, what adults do is they label
you a problem. And when somebody is exhibiting challenging behavior,
which you do, if you're sitting in a classroom and
(43:26):
your brain doesn't learn the way that people's brains learn,
or you can't communicate what you need, adults punish people
who are challenging. And the fact is people do well
in the can kids in particular. And it's not an
issue of motivation or capability or willpower. It's an issue
of skills that are missing and simple problems that need
(43:48):
to be solved. And so if you can change one
person's life because they listen to this and they share
it with somebody, then that's an incredible thing to do
with your life. And if my story and my struggles
and you know, look, I am happy to have struggled.
Even though I caused myself pain. I do not regret that.
(44:12):
I do wish I hadn't caused other people pain. But
if I can struggle for as long as I did,
with anxiety and with patterns of behavior that were very
painful to me and painful to other people because I
didn't know the core problems. But then I learn about it,
and now I can share it with millions of people.
(44:35):
I will take that every day. I'll take the hit.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
We'll be back shortly with more from this inspiring conversation.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
What does it shall be mean to you?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
It shall be? My husband and I got tattoos on
our fifteenth wedding an versary and I was like, we're
gonna get matching tattoos. You know we're not. And so Chris,
of course, going in he had figured his out and
I was panic stricken because I could not figure out
what to do.
Speaker 4 (45:12):
And his was really good.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Oh yes, he won, and I was so annoyed once
he told me because it was so good.
Speaker 8 (45:17):
He has he has the tattoo right here and it
says one gate. And he used to be a ski
racer growing up, and his dad always used to tell him,
who passed away in two thousand and seven, always used
to tell him, just take one gate like a ski
gate at a time, Just take one gate at a time,
Just take one gate at a time. And he translated
(45:39):
that to like one day, one moment, one second, and
he is like the most calm Buddhist zen person I've
ever been. Really, yes, so present, he's a death doula.
He's so incredible. But he took letters from his dad
and gotten oh and gotten in and got an eve
(46:02):
and got a gee and got it morphed together and
put on his on his arm.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
And of course, being the bitch that I am, when
he came and told me that profound story and you've
got your hand over your heart, I was like, oh.
Speaker 8 (46:16):
What am I going to do?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
If I had heard it back then, I would have
been able to regulate myself like me.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
And so I was just panic stricken because we were
about to go to the appointment and a friends and
I'm like, I still don't know what to get, and
she goes, you should get it. She'll be I'm like why,
And she said, will you say that all the time?
I said, what do you mean? She said, oh, you
always tell me if you just put your head down
and you chip away at it and you give up
your timeline, it shall be. I didn't even know I
(46:51):
said it. And so then we get to the tattoo
parlor so I'm like, okay, I do that, and I
realized I didn't have a font. So then I'm on
their laptop looking at the drop down menu on word,
like what should I do?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
And that was may I actually a moment because it's
words and I have one to.
Speaker 7 (47:10):
These are imagining family so we can capture.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Well, mine's on my wrist.
Speaker 4 (47:17):
And mine's on the side of my right.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Beautiful, so you have three almost like the Bethlehem Star.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
So your dad your acual like everybody.
Speaker 8 (47:27):
The whole experience was inspired by my grandmother, my dad's mom,
who she is shout out to JJ. She is actually
the grandmother I went to Cambodia with and taught English with.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
And she is eighty seven years old.
Speaker 8 (47:43):
She's literally walks four miles every single day.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
She's four eleven.
Speaker 8 (47:49):
She is the energy of a firecracker. She is the
most amazing human being in the world.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
And she had a friend of hers who.
Speaker 8 (48:02):
Is dying, was dying and she asked her friend, what
do you think happens when you die? And without with
all conviction, her friend had said, I'm going to be
a star, and I'm going to be a star. All
of us are going to be stars. If you look
up at the sky at night, there's billions and billions
(48:23):
and billions of stars. And the reason behind that is
because when you go up and you become a star,
a star, you can then look over all of your
family members, and shooting stars are stars that travel to
other people to see different people. And so then JJ
was like, I'm going to get a star tattooed on me.
(48:43):
And she's eighty seven and so first tattoo. And so
then of course when she told me, I was like, well,
I need to get a star because I'm going to
be a star and you're going to be a star.
And then so all five of us, our entire family, Me, Mom, Dad, Oakley,
Kendall and JJ, we all got our tattoo appointment and
(49:03):
went and we all have different stars yep.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
And then I put our whole family like, so I
have this, I have a Sawyer star in an Oakley
and Chris and me and and.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
I have one star and five dots for every single
one of the.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Well, it's one of my best friends who she actually
is a death doula really and she was with my
mom when my mom passed, and it was the most
incredible gift that anyone could give to give us. And
she also has something she created called Star Day and
it's it's when you celebrate your ancestors on the day
(49:36):
that they went to go back to live in the stars.
So I need to get you wrote a children's book
and it's and so yeah, I'm telling you we are well, well,
you know, I'll get you the whole book and it's
all about that. And then you celebrate that day that
they went back to be in the stars, and so
you you eat their favorite food and you you talked about.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Oh my gosh, I love that.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
I love you.
Speaker 8 (50:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (50:02):
Great concept.
Speaker 7 (50:04):
Well, something that we are contemplating a lot and would
love to get your theory on is the difference between
the Western concept of happiness versus fulfillment and fulfillment as
a source from within, a source from love, and the
Western concept of happiness is this treadmill that we can
ever often ever achieve because we're always seeking the next thing.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Well, the cool thing about the distinction that I'm going
to share with you is that it comes from someone's research.
And the person I'm going to cite is doctor Tall
Ben Shahar. It was one of the kind of original
rockstar happiness professors at one of the Ivy League schools,
(50:45):
and he has this concept that I love because happiness.
What we get wrong about it is we believe that
there is a thing out there that will make you
happy all the time. And the problem with that is
once you get the thing, your happiness or your excitement
(51:06):
or enthusiasm, whatever you call it, just disappears right away
because you got the thing. And we have this relentless
need to feel good. So we're constantly looking out there
and we think, well, maybe the car, or maybe you know,
it's the boyfriend or the girlfriend, or maybe it's a
certain dollar in the bank, or maybe it's a certain
number on the scale, or it's a certain friend group
(51:27):
or whatever that is going to create this feeling inside
me that I sow not only want, but you actually
deserve to feel good in your life. But we're going
about it wrong. And so he basically says, anytime you
want something out there, it's like staring at the sun
if you look directly at the sun, just like you
(51:47):
look directly at your bank account and say I'm gonna
be happy if I have a million dollars in that
bank account. You're going to get sun spots, and you're
going to be blinded and you're going to be miserable
as you're trying to get it, because because you're going
to think you're only going to feel good once you
get there. Instead, he says, I want you to take
(52:09):
the sun and put it through a prism and it
creates a rainbow. And when you realize that that's what's
available to you right now, that's what you can bring
into your life right now, that it's not really out there.
It's all the things that you can take in and
bring in here that truly create fulfillment.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
So sorrya Martan.
Speaker 6 (52:39):
What's one thing you'd want your mom to know about
the impact she's had on your life.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
So much?
Speaker 8 (52:51):
But the first thing that came to mind is, I
think growing up, I thought that my legacy was being
mel Robinson's daughter, and I think in writing this book together.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
And just getting to spend so much time.
Speaker 8 (53:18):
With you, but it's actually a lot bigger than that,
and it's the Latin theory and it's so many more
things that I have not achieved, and so thank you
for opening that vision for me.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I love you, I love you, and you know what
I'm gonna tell you, Oh God, I had the easy part.
I just had to learn to create the space for
you to see it yourself. Proud of you, I.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Gotta say, I got three kids and so just listening
to you and.
Speaker 5 (53:58):
Away a lot for work.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
To see the two of you, as you said, go
through your journey, but be at this incredibly strong place together,
to see you work together, create together. To hear the
love in your voice. Oh my god, I love the
honesty and everything about the conversation. Love them for who
they are, and love them for who they are not
(54:21):
my god. I think we can all reflect on that
with our family and friends. Can't control others, you know,
we just need to let them and to let me.
Speaker 5 (54:32):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
And you can only meet someone as deeply as you've
met yourself. And it has been such a gift for
all of us to spend so much time with both
of you and to have this extraordinary experience as mother
and daughter and friend and co journeer on this together.
So thank you to both of you for leaving an
(54:55):
extraordinary legacy. Every single day.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Thank you, thank you for this experience. So what a
beautiful experience that you've created for us to be able
to dig deeper into our own experience and what we've learned,
sometimes a hard way, always always amazing. Wow.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Thank you for joining us. We are so grateful to
have you as part of this journey. If you enjoy
today's conversation, subscribe and share the podcast with friends, family,
and loved ones, and follow us on social media. You
can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at my
Legacy Movement. You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel
(55:48):
at my Legacy Movement. At the heart of this podcast
is doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the
power of connection. Produced by Legacy Plus Studio in partnership
with iHeartRadio creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward, co executive
producer Lisa Lyle, editing an av by Garcia creator. My
(56:10):
Legacy podcast is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts. Until next time, may you find
connection and inspiration to live your most fulfilled life.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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