November 18, 2024 • 50 mins
Darren Waller a former NFL athlete, shares his journey of self-discovery, addiction, and recovery with us in this episode. He discusses the duality of his identity and some of the challenges he faced while navigating life as a professional athlete. Waller's candid reflections on his struggles with addiction and the path to recovery highlight the importance of self-acceptance and finding purpose beyond sports.
Waller shares his vulnerable experience of an overdose, the subsequent realization of his addiction, the transformative power of music, and his commitment to finding a deeper purpose in his life moving forward.
Listen to the NEW EP: Internal Warfare: This Too Shall Pass
Connect: @CariChampion @RakkWall
Learn More: DarrenWaller.Org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You know, sometimes you got to sit still and get
right with your maker. But dance has come to you.
Let life on phone how it's supposed to. You know
what I'm saying, or you don't believe me this week,
I'm Darren Waller, formerly known as an NFL athlete, played
(00:26):
eight years in the NFL. But I'm try you're living life.
I'm an artist, an uncle, I'm a brother, I'm a friend,
a son. I love to be out in nature. I
love all things. I'm just loving the human experience.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
What type of artists are you? What art do you
partake in?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I partake in the creation of good music. You could
say I'm hip hop because that's kind of what I
grew up on. And yeah, I'm proud to be a
part of what hip hop is contributing to culture. But
I'm influenced by all styles of music and they all
kind of show up in little ways. The two CDs
that got the most rotation in my in My Walkman
Growing Up where jay Z Black Album and Kanye West Graduation.
(01:03):
So you know guys that were, you know, vulnerable to
an extent in their rapps talking about what they've gone through,
what they've climbed through, you know, I got like Kanye
what he had to persist through just to get to
where he was musically, those kind of guys, But just
like just the standard of excellence and what they're doing.
When I listen to that music, I'm like, Okay, that's
the standard. So like when I make something, that's what
(01:24):
I'm trying to strive for. I'm not trying to make
something to kind of come up or let people know like, oh,
he's rapping. I'm like, I want to contribute something to
music to where people can walk away and be like oh,
or like think about something differently or change their perspective.
Will be moving too fast walking my pace. May even
knew that I was top ten before I dropped in
over the Baby, and they thought they have me boxed in.
I was locked in the whole way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Darren Waller is a former NFL tight end who has
shared his story over the years. Recently retired from the league,
he spends his time now making music and I would
also say honoring his shadows as he recovers from drug addiction.
In this episode of Naked Sports, Waller is raw and graphic,
and it could be triggering for some who may be
(02:04):
recovering from an addiction or still in the fight. But
my hope is that his story helps and heals. Welcome
to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at the
intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal the
(02:25):
common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying to.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Get to for almost thirty years.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Kayden Clark wrote the all time single game assists record.
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
To the polls where history is written, and now we
have Kamala Harrison, it feels more like women are sort
of taken what they've always deserved, as opposed to waiting
on somebody to give them what they've deserved.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community do we create. In each episode, will
sit down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because
at the core of it all, how we see one
issue shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I always been told I can't be Meani yoka, I
do what my mother say, don't know. I thought life
was easy to just really harm and it must be
another way. A boy goes turn into a man, we
do you know, he can't run and he gotta go
right through it? No way.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I know when you wrap, what do you wrap about?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Mainly I'm rofughing about my experiences, the struggles I've had,
just like me trying to figure out, you know, myself,
how to love and accept myself. Because there's times where
it's like I feel great about myself and what I'm doing.
I've always been this, you know, performer for people, and
that's kind of giving me my word for a while,
but realizing the other side of that to where it's
like if I'm not performing or if I'm just to
(04:00):
be my authentic self and I make mistakes, like am
I still lovable? Like? Am I still all these things?
So I rap about all those things. And I also
grew up in Atlanta and listening to the New York hip
hop where dudes around there, you know, trying to get
their bars off.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okay, do a little bit of that. Okay, So just
yesterday you released minip You want to tell us about it?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, so the EPE is called internal Warfare. This two
shot pass. There's been a few EPs this year where
I've like combined the name of a couple of songs
in the project to make the title. So but with that,
it's like, like I said, there's there's always been two
sides of me. There's this me that's like, you know, loving, caring,
you know, has depth, and there's this other side of
me that's like, you know, through my football journey and
(04:42):
just through life and trying to figure out where I
fit just being like competitive and aggressive and you know,
just having a point to prove. There's these two sides
that often clash within me. But when I'm able to
accept those two kind of like we talked about before,
that's where I'm able to find the piece, you know,
that two shot pass. I don't always have to feel
the way that I feel forever. So that's kind of
(05:03):
the theme bot.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
When you say there's two sides, I'm curious because I
think everyone experiences that, But why can't that just be
the whole of you, the some of who you are?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
That's honestly the goal, Like you hit the nail on
the head, like it gets the goal, just to be
like there's my therapist Alwa says, there's no bad parts
right parts there, there's nothing bad. They're all just some
ways in which I'm trying to keep myself safe or
you know, ultimately fine fulfillment in life. They are these
you know, sometimes coping mechanisms, survival tactics, but really they're
(05:32):
just all me and they deserve to be loved and accepted.
But for most of my life it's always like, well,
it's been like a perfectionist trying to be accepted by people.
So it's like if it's not fitting the good label,
it's shunned until like I can because I don't want
people to see me the way that I see myself
my life.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So it's it's interesting because labels are like when we
put a label on anything. And I even told you
that I was listening to Internal Warfare this morning as
I was preparing for this interview, and I assumed that
I would not enjoy it as much as I enjoyed it.
I assumed that, which was so unfair. And I don't
(06:11):
like labels, but I find myself just conditioned. This is
a human condition. You do that with people without even
knowing it, and it was to me, what I was
able to hear was someone reconciling the good and the bad.
But really it was this beautiful alchemy of who you
ultimately are. I just was like, we're also complicated in
so many ways. We don't have to be one thing.
(06:33):
Do you when you grew up, and this is not
even a heavy question, do you feel like because I
know my therapist will always say it is because the
way you grew.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Up, So.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, I mean, I'm coming in touch with every area
of my life is being traced back to my childhood
and like that early part of your life from like
zero to eight is where your brain is formed and
like how you believe yourself to be in the world,
and zero to eight for me, it was like I
don't know where I fit in. I don't feel like
I'm welcomed or accepted as I am. I feel like
(07:05):
I'm not enough. I feel like I have to change.
So it's like I can be a thirty two year
old man sometimes and still showing up as that eight
year old version of myself because this real trauma. That's
how I came to find my way in the world.
I guess I grew up the suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia. Okay,
thirty minutes north. Nobody knows where Actworth, Georgia is. People
alread know where Cannessas is now. But yeah, like thirty
(07:26):
minutes north of Atlanta's so very nice neighborhood, good public schools.
Nothing in the environment that was triggering or harming to
my development or nor in the home either. My parents
are still married to this day, thirty eight years. But
it was just the social aspect of things where it's
like I feel like a total alien everywhere that I go.
(07:48):
I mean, so I was like they put me on
this gifted academic path and a lot of times like
I was one of two or the only black kid
in my classes. And then it's like through that route,
I'm a little of a nerd, and so I get
around like football teammates and they're like, you know, everybody
feel like they got to be macho, and I'm like
the nerd that's got to go do homework or you
know what I'm saying, like, or my classes are in
(08:09):
a completing way. It's like why are you nerdy? Why
are you this? Why are you that? And it's like
I had friends growing up, my neighborhood who became my
good friends. We just did all the same stuff together.
They were white, and so it's like, oh, you ain't
And as a kid, it's like, I don't really. I
wish I had like the adult version of me for
them to be like, man, that's that's just them trying
to find their own way and projecting that on you
(08:30):
because you're interested into things. But I didn't have that,
So I'm just like, oh damn, I don't want to
feel like this. So I'm around these people, I'm act
like this around them. I'm gonna be like this. I'm
in that room. I got to make sure I show
up like this.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I hear that all the times from my friends who
are bi racial, mixed, however you want to describe it,
because that is a label. It is a true label,
and it's so unfortunate. Do you how do you identify
if someone said to you, are you a black man?
Or would you like, I'm a mixed man. You know
how tighter woods will say, well, I'm not one hundred percent.
Do you feel like you have to identify with black
(09:02):
and or white or what? I don't know what you're
mixed with?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I'm black, like my dad's just like light skin. My
mom is dark skins, like I'm black. So I'm really like,
well you do I mix at all? I gotta do
an ancestry kit or.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Something racist, Carrie, I think you.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Do an ancestry can go walking to me like, what
are some people think? I'm the media?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know you have you got to do the kid.
We need the kid.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I ordered the kid recently, but and I put this
live in it but I think I left town and
it's still on my counter months later.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But don't send them all your information because they're going
to use that to AIU. Okay, no, seriously, that is
because you look like everything is something else. People tell
you that your entire life.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, all people still to this day interesting fascinating.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I'm racist. I'll deal with that. So so when did
you start? When did you start playing football?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I was four years old. We had just moved to Georgia.
We were in Colorado. Out of my dad moved. We
moved to Georgia, so my dad got a job at
Coke and I guess they were just kind of like
starting to throw me into things. My first year of football,
I was playing the offensive line. I wish I had
my I think my mom still has a picture somewhere,
but she put me out there with like this padding
all over my body, like bicet pad, elbow pads, playing
(10:21):
offensive line, defensive line. But then the next year, when
I was five, I started playing quarterback. And I played
quarterback all the way up until high school. And I
was just fascinated with like NFL films. I would binge
watch it and my parents will tell stories about like
I'd be out there playing quarterback and the coach to
run and play and I'd be like, we can't run
it this way because the way the defense is set up.
We got to run like a counter back this way
and stuff like that. So I was like, as a kid,
(10:43):
like my I was, I was definitely gifted, like intellectually,
so like football was where I devoted a lot of
that too, and other sports played basketball and baseball, but football.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Was like the first one that was your So if
you played, you played other sports obviously. And it's so
funny when someone has a position of tight end, you
immediately think, oh, they should be playing ball, you know,
you immediately think that ended basketball rather right, when did
you decide that football was going to be the path.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Well, the other sports kind of got eliminated going into
high school. I think I was probably like doing too
much playing baseball, like pitching and playing outfield. So I
have an elbow injury that I ended up hurting pretty
bad my sophomore of high school playing football, and then
I got kicked off the basketball team halfway through my
junior year probub when I was getting good, which is
like my first year was for varsity. Football was my
junior year too, So.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Why did you get kicked off arrested? Okay, well that
could happen, right, it happened.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It was like, well, I feel like I had like
too much pride to go back the next year because
they kicked me off. But then for my junior year,
I was like, I had a good year, Like I
played defense, I had a whole bunch of tackles, and
then I got my first couple of scholarship offers at
the end of my junior year, and I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Football, it is football, it is yeah, so it eliminated
and told you where you were going to go. I
of course have to get to why were we arrested?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So there were these kids on my football team in
high school and they liked bashing people's car windows out
with like bat and like throwing coke cans and rocks
through people's house windows. And I was like, you know,
this kit trying to be cool and be yeah, and
so I was like, I'll drive us and go around.
And we were in the neighborhood next to the neighborhood
(12:21):
that I lived in, and then somebody was out walking
their dog or somebody saw got my license plate and
maybe I was just like parked in one spot like
a very amateur.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, we're criminal.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And then like basically like I had to take the
fall for everything. So I had, like you know, that
was the first offender, but I had like felony damage
to property and trespassing things I had to go.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I was in court like you don't write out your people. Nah,
you just took the all for them. Wow, that says
a lot about you.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
It's kind of like culture though you can't.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You just had to take the all, but you did
they have as much to lose as you had in
terms of their upside. Did they play sports where they.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Were all all on the football team, these were all
like all the dudes were talented in the car.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Did they go bro no, none of them did okay,
but you okay? So then you were like, yeah, it
was me.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
They got reduced to misdemeanors. So I was like on
probation for a bit and had to do like this
diversion program and go take all these classes, and then
I was fine.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Only reason why I asked is something about the how
old were you at the time, seventeen? There's something about
that age because for me, I got arrested probably when
I was fourteen for shop lives and I don't know what.
I just to do it. I was bored, and I
was hanging around a bunch of people who were doing
it and they were getting new and I think to myself,
(13:44):
I had three hundred hours of community service. I spent
my whole summer doing community service. And I was so
embarrassed by that. But when you're bored, I think that's
just a level of how smart we are and we
have nowhere to place all of this this energy that
we have. Did you ever think of it that one?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah? And there's at least for me, there's this there's
me being an atticant, Like there's this addiction to high
risk behaviors that has been a theme throughout my life,
but like so stuff like that, Like I was shoplifting,
I was, you know, stealing a whole lot in college
and doing all these things. But it's like I'm getting this, like, oh.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It was so much fun. Yeah, it was a rush.
It was like, if I can get away with it,
let me do it again and again and again. When
did you know you had a problem with drugs?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I don't think I ever thought I did. I always
thought I was in control, probably until I overdosed.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
When Naked Sports continues, Darren relives the day he overdosed
back in a moment.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yoga Dog Dog.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
This episode of Naked Sport is about Darren Waller and
the life that he's lived and of course, what's next
after being in the NFL. He shared his story of
addiction and recovery on other platforms. We begin now when
Darren chairs what was once his drug of choice? When
did you start taking drugs?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
First thing was like painkillers my sophomore year high school,
fifteen years old. Then they started smoking weed, then introduced
to bud Light and sky vodka along the way as well.
So yeah, it was just it just kind of built
up and then by the time I went to college.
I was just like full time, partying, part time athlete.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And you never thought you had a problem.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Nah, because I could always, like, you know, show up
and be like respectful and look you in the eye.
And my grades were always good, and you know, and
I'm playing football. I have all these things I can
justify like, I can't have a problem. I'm a Division
one athlete, I'm at a great college. I'm YadA, YadA, YadA,
and so I could always hide behind that and just
be like, yeah, I'm just in college having a good time.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Interesting and so you were like, I'm fine. I'm all said,
they didn't. So when you get to there was no
level where you as you were in college or even
I know, when you got to the pros. But they
do drug tests.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I got into the system of guys that on my
college team that are like, you know, if we go
on this route, we got to be locked in. And
so when they would drug test us, they would drug
test us at the indoor facility, which we had to
walk up good ways to practice. So every day of
practice it was like a five hour energy shot bottle
of clean pea that I had in my girdle and
(16:35):
I'd put it over with my sneakers. So when they
practice ended, there'd be aligned for the drug tests. Your
crotch would be hot from practice because your PA had
to be a certain temperature or for them to accept it,
otherwise they'd be like nah, obviously. So I'd put it
in my crotch, keep it warm, and there'd be a
hole in the bott of my girdle and you can
squeeze the pee out into the cup. So I was
passing numerous tests.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
How did you even how did you even come up
with that plan? Really curious that the process to be
like so, just so I won't get caught, this is
what I should do.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I mean, I was just basically soaking in knowledge from
what older guys on the team that I was rolling
with we're doing. I'll just absorbed it like a sponge,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So it's a whole process.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, in order to you know, keep what I'm doing
a lot, because I'm willing to do whatever for me
to keep doing what I'm doing. That's addiction.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wow, fascinating, I feel because it feel like I had
so much trouble. I didn't feel like there was a
lot of trouble to you back then.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Looking back, it was looking back just the whole time.
It was exhausting, Like, but it's crazy in the moment,
you don't see it that way. You're just like, oh man,
I gotta like because when I do, you know, get
to where I want to get, Like, it's the piece
that comes from taking what I'm.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Taking, right, So when you then I'm fast, I'm fast forwarding.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So you go through college, you're able to avoid evade
whatever word you want to use this system because you
are really intelligent. This is what I always think. It's
interesting when people are breaking the law doing something that
they shouldn't do. Myself included, that's when you see how
smart someone because they're dumb criminals.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Right something crazy. So so I almost almost didn't make
it through college. It's like three strike thing. So I
had two strikes and made it out. But there was
one time where I think I had like a little
bit of clean time because like I was just under
I had to lay low for just like a little bit.
And it was after a fall camp scrimmage on a
Saturday morning. We had a piss test and this is
(18:28):
when they introduced a mouth swab. And they do a
mouth swab, they can detect if you views like the
last twenty four or forty eight hours and there was
a dude on my team where he's like odds to me,
He's like, I'm about to fail. So we swapped mouth swabs.
I give him my saliva, like so he can pass
the test. Like I've been clean, yeah for a little bit,
(18:49):
Like I can help you today.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I get your like, look, I could do anything
for you.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
They're sending me to outpatient programs and I'm getting tested
like like so there's like a little bit of spread
in there where I was like, all right, I'm clean,
but so I could help him day.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, that is crazy to me. So you're like
I'm the main one. But that tells me something. That
tells me you were really talented. That tells me that
they did everything to protect you because you were so
talented and you knew that and they knew that you
had a problem. Because if they're sending you to programs
and they're trying to take care of you, whoever they
is who was the day Georgia Tech.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah Yeah, my college coach, coach Johnson, he would always
be like anytime I came into his office, He's like
you're tripping. But anytime they ask him an interview, he'd
be like, he playing on Sunday, And it's like I
didn't even believe I was going to play on Sunday. Interesting,
that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Does that Did that make you feel good about yourself?
Knowing how talented you were that they would do by
any means necessary to protect you.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I couldn't see it that way because I didn't really
have a lot of confidence in myself.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
How'd you see it?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Self respect? It was just like it was just like
that's a comp You know how people are, like they're
just like so awkward when they receive compliments. It's like
they just cannot refuse it. They're like, ah, nah, I
wasn't just that was kind of me like silently, I
just like I don't even know how to receive it.
So I just don't feel good about myself on a
day to day basis.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Did they ever try to do a mini intervention? Was
there ever a time where someone said, you're so talented,
you really got it, you really got to take care
of yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
A lot of people said that a lot of people
at Georgia Tech. John Harbaugh repeatedly with the Ravens. Ozzie
knew some would say that they come down in the
Cafeterian nig what do you do?
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Like?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What do we gotta like? What do we gotta do?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And I'm just like, I leave that day get high?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
What did you say when they say that?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Just like I'm trying to stop man Like, I'm not
like I give people to run around, Like that's giving
a run around.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh, but you knew you were telling them what they
wanted to hear, basically, But you knew right away you
get high when you leave. Was that guilt?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, that shame weighs on you. It's heavy, heavy, is exhausting.
And then it's like you're trying to go out on
the field and think like you're this undisciplined person in
your personal life and like having shame and not really
a lot of confidence. Suppos I'm supposed to go out
in the field and be this disciplined performer with confidence,
loyal to my team. It doesn't it's got to be
(21:07):
you got to be that person. And just without the pads.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
On, I am listening to you tell this like version
of this story, and all I think as I'm hearing
you say this is that people really cared about you
and really really loved you and really wanted you to
be your best at all times. Like you had a
community of people fighting for you. Why you weren't fighting
for yourself all the time. And I know that probably
(21:31):
makes you feel guilty, but I also would feel I
was like on the outside looking in, I'm like, oh,
he's really special. I think it was more than just
your talent. They really felt like you were special. Did
you feel that, Yeah, it.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Was just hard to receive that level of love. I'm
just like, you know, kind of talk about the therapist
saying from when we were kids, like from his kids.
I'm just like, I got to be doing something for
people to love me. It's the truth that's in my mind. Ye.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Same.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So it's like I'm doing all these things that I
know people would think are crazy if they knew I
was doing them. So it's like I'm a piece of
shit in your mind kind of. And so it's like
when people it's hard for you to process. So it's
like if anybody was what was really loved, it was
just like, ah, get away from me. Can people at
arm's length because they're trying to the walls are closing
(22:18):
it as opposed to me being able to see it
as love.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
That's nice. That's nice, meaning like it's nice for you
to recognize what it is now and the outside looking in.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So then I can see Ozzie and Harwack coming to you, Sam,
what's going on? You got to get it together and
you're not the only one. I don't want you to
feel like that. I hope I'm not making you feel
like why just why aren't you doing this? I understand
that that is a real issue, because it's that's addictive behavior.
And then you find yourself in a space where you,
I guess maybe fail too many drug tests and they
(22:47):
suspend you wait and they're like enough to not way
too many. Well, You're like, you have no idea. How
many drug tests do you think you failed? Well, while
you were in the league.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean there was there was time like I'm getting
a weekly FedEx saying you tested positive for oxycodon, just
positive for cocaine, just positive for marijuana, alcohol like weekly.
And then there was a point in time after my
second season where I tore my label on my shoulder
and I was just like, I'm just about to burn
(23:17):
this all to the ground and I was just failing
every test on purpose. So I'll say one hundred maybe
at least probably Wow.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, So what did it take for them to finally suspend.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
You for you do?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
You got to rack up two hundred what what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So if you just look at the scale, you got
to rack up a lot of failed tests just to
even be suspended for a game, like you go through.
The first time you fail tests, they put you in
the drug program. You're just in the program. There's no
real consequences. Next test your doc. One games pay, but
you still play. Then it's two games pay. Then it's
four games pay all before you even get to being
suspended for a game. Then it's you're suspended one game
(23:57):
and then two games, then four games in eight games.
Then I'll stand here playing for free a year.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's not funny.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Dudes on the practice Squadudes on the practice squad were
making more money than me my second year.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
That still didn't bother you.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Hooks too deep at that point, so yes, ye're not
making a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Fascinating, it really is, because it just talks about how
strong it can be. Whatever it is, whatever the device is,
whatever the addiction is. It could be it doesn't have
to be drugs. It could be a relationship, it could
be shopping, like we talked about. Whatever it is, it
could be. It could have such a hold on you
that it doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So then you finally get to the point where they
suspend you for a year, and you and you know
that it's time, right, what do you feel? Are you embarrassed?
Are you ashamed?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, definitely ashamed. I remember I have a cousin, she
lived in DC, and she was a part of this
board of people that are like, it's like a leader
summer leadership, a council for these kids in DC that are,
you know, trying to go whatever path are trying to go,
and they wanted me to come speak on it. I
think it was like the day after I got suspended,
I'm up there. I'm like, I'm a complete fraud.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Kids.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I don't think it hit yet, but I got the
letter and I was like, man, like, I'm up here
telling these kids a whole bunch of mores like that
I'm not really living, you know. So it's and then
from there I was just like I started using more.
I mean I'm I'm coming hills doing cold drinking.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Great were here, We're gonna go all in.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I had to get stop. People were like, when you
decided to stop. I was like, it wouldn't me decided
to stop. I got stopped, I got parked.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, I have a question, but what you said about
being a fraud. I had just interviewed Elliott Connie and
he said the same thing about himself, but he was
a fraud in a very different way. He said when
he was playing baseball in college, he would see kids,
I mean dudes would come up to him and or
one dude in particular kind of nerd, and he was like, man,
you got the life you play. You did that. I
(26:00):
just want to be And he was like, such a
for all my life is horrible.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh, I know that feeling also well when I was
I guess one probably the thing that made me most
fulfilled playing football, honestly was like when we would be
at practice and there would be like young guys on
the team or and you could see like they may
drop past or they may do something, and it's like, look,
there's kind of like a kid that's on the island
on their own. Feeling like I just messed all this up.
It's like going over there and being like, ay bro,
(26:26):
like don't trip, Like.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Why did it fulfill you?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Because I could just see myself back in my early
career in times where it was just like I'm suffering
by myself, and like those little moments start to stack,
it can start the snowball as far as your mental
health is concerned. I'll just go there and be like
just playing that. He'd be like, ay bro, like you
ain't got to stay in that, Like there's no there's
no one thing that can ultimately define you. Because for me,
(26:51):
it's like I was defined by pass and mistakes. There's
no hell hout to me.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
My equivalent would be pronouncing someone's name wrong. Yes, that
happened in air. Okay, let's talk about the day if
you don't mind day that part.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah. August eleven, twenty seventeen. I yeah, overdosed on. I
was taking a Perker set and the other people in
Baltimore at the time that are like, hey, like be careful,
they're pressing pills.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Now.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It could be fitting all D D and so, but
you know people are like, ah, it can't happen to me,
Like I'm I'm probably like I'm this athlete and at
the time, I would snort pills because like you get
hit quicker, like did you take them orally like twenty
minutes or so, like I need to be need for
that immediately. Then I pulled up to the giant grocery
(27:40):
store by my apartment and it was like about to
get out the car, but then I was like, oo,
if I get this car, I'm gonna just PLoP on
the ground, like it'll be a whole scene, like, can't
have that. I just closed the door and just like
sat back in my car and it was just like
somebody pulled the plug from behind the TV.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Really, yeah, when you're aware, you're aware, are you?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Like I was just it was just like I was
like one second, it was like like like the plug
by the TV got pulled, and I'm just like and
then I wake up and it's like nighttime.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And are you in the same space, And I'm like cold.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
And like like big huge beads of sweat, Like you
never think your beads of sweat would be that big.
It was just like whole like and I was just like.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, no one came to the car, No one knocked
on the door. No one noticed you sleeping. You were
just in the parking lot by yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Then what I went home?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
My dad had landed. We were supposed to be moving
out of my apartment the next day because I was
I got suspended. I was moving back home to my parents,
and I just you know, got together and just started
moving stuff out and just went home and never really
told anybody until like I go through go through therapy,
and then you're like, oh, like you just falling. I
didn't just voluntarily take a nap that day.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, So did someone have to tell you you overdose?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
You like putting the pieces together? Like after I was like, ah,
like that's what that was.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So you didn't know what that was. And then you
got on a plane and you you packed up, you
bet your dad like no big deal, and kept doing
your own thing.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I just thought I was like too high or just like.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Do you know how incredibly lucky you are? Right and
so blessed.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
All the story?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Wow, that's amazing. But your whole life, your whole life,
So what do you do with this this vacation that
the NFL gives you?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I went to rehab and Maine.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
What made you do that because you overdosed.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, So that was when I didn't say anything coming
out of it. But once I got home, it was
just like I got a call from the Ravens doctors.
They're like, we're afraid for your life. We're still getting
your toxicology results. It just keeps getting worse and worse.
Like and so like once you see this addiction specialist
in Georgia and I went there and and the dudes like, yeah,
I took this assessment. They're like, yeah, you need to
(29:54):
go to rehab immediately, dual diagnosis, substance peace, mental health,
everything like go.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
And you're like I'm out.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I was just like you do what really need it?
You're still Then it's like then after that, I was
like okay, like I'm open. Then my parents kind of
had a moment wherever it was like you could tell
like they wish they never had to have told me.
But it's basically like, yeah, addiction kind of runs in
this tree.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh so it's all coming together.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
So it's like I didn't really have a shot to
not be like this.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
But then it's like a moment of like, oh, well,
what are you gonna do now?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
So wow, that's a lot. Yeah, so your parents tell
you that it runs in the family, and how do
you respond to that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think I respond pretty positively, just just enough openness
to go and be like all right, like let me
see what they got. And then it was just like
a game changing experience, which means getting in touch with
like the first time, like I'm honest about how I'm
really doing and how I'm really feeling. And it's just
like I instantly feel lighter, like when I have somewhere
(31:01):
to like put this gest that I just have fermenting
on the other side of me.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yes, I'm excited, and it's.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Like, oh, okay, that's started diving into like the one
on one therapy and going to meetings and you know,
doing all those things, and it's just like it was
exactly what I needed. And I came home and kept
going to meetings, got a job at Sprouts.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
When we return, Darren tells us about his job stocking
shelves at Sprouts while he was waiting to get back
in the NFL. He also talks about ultimately deciding to
retire from the league and getting a divorce from w
NBA superstar Kelsey Plum back in a moment.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
This too pass. If you depressed us, know that it's
too pass. When you're afraid, remember this shot pass. I
know it's hard, dog to pass what you're telling Bro
showed your head king this too shot pass. You know
you wish you with dad a baby. This is too
shot past. You can't see the way, but it's too
shot past.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Yeah, I just want.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
To turn the page on this whole thing. I'm done
with this chapter. I'm done being an actor. No, they
don't really care that. Just want to be entertained.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
What about me after?
Speaker 1 (32:53):
What about my joy? What about my feast? Dog, I'm
gonna need green pastors. But I'll keep telling you that
I'm fine, that I want to make it work. But
it's not time I want to. I was at a
grocery clerk, so I was just like making the shelves
look nice, and uh, people wanted autograph six pH water.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Wait a second, do people know who you were while
you were working at sprouts?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I was not like a bit like maybe they did,
but like I didn't really have anything.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Physically, you don't look like somebody.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
They were just like, yeah, can you get this off
the top?
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Yeah, because you're.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Like physically this big person is working. You don't look
like you should be working here, Like.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Shouldn't you be on the field somewhere. It's a long story,
I tell you.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Talk to you too. So during that year you worked
at Sprout, you went to therapy. Life humbles you and
a very oh. But the fact that you went and
got a job says so much about you. Do you understand,
Like I'm sitting here like happy for you because you
did that. You didn't have to appreciate that you didn't
have to or did you want?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I needed structure. That's why I realized like, if I
don't got structure, I'm I'm fucked.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So this dude that worked that assistant storemander As Sprouts
when church my parents, She's like, oh, we got job openings.
And I was like, all right. I thought I was
gonna go there and be like, oh, I'm a George
Stay graduate. I could be an assistant manager too. And
I was like, oh, we need a grocery clerk.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And I was like, and you did it, and you
did it. That makes me happy for you.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
That's how God works. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
He's such a good guy. Then the suspension is wrapping up, right,
talk to me about how you got back into the
league and then you did so well.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, it's just all crazy because I didn't even want
to go back for real. But then I started training
and I was realizing, like, I don't really have anybody
that measures this up against. But I feel like I'm
getting pretty good or just like you know, like building
in my skill set. It's improving. And I get back
to the Ravens that get reinstated in my first day
of training camp and whut they're cooking everybody. But then
they drafted Mark Andrews and hitting hers and they're like,
(34:47):
you know, they already goodan because I mean I never
really showed anything that they could put trust in. So
I got cutting put on a practice squad. I was
in the practice squad for like ten eleven weeks, and
then we were there's a way they played the play
the Raiders one Sunday and rather doing my pregame routine,
me and this other receiver on the team, we'd run
and throw extra routes with RG three would throw to us.
(35:08):
And so that day I just do that and come
in to the locker room and put my sweats on,
watch the game, go home. The next morning my agent's like,
you got signed by the Oakland Raiders. You're going to
Oakland and your flights at like noon. I'm not after shit.
So I was like, yeah, I could use a new
scene because you know, they were used to me being
the yeah, and they were like they were like, oh,
(35:29):
we're proud of you how you're developing, Like if somebody
gets hurt, we'll give you a shot. And I'm just
like I need a new a scene where people kind
of like like they're excited.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
They're like, we want you here where Yeah, you would
have always been a relationship where they want you.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, it's just a different level. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, coach,
I'm gone and went to the Raiders and first couple
of games I played special teams. And there was a
week we played the Bengals. They had a couple of
plays in me and for offense, and I touched the
ball twice in the game. The first one I took
a just sweep for like twenty five yards and the
other one I caught a pass for like forty someven yards.
And I was like, yeah, this is like a this
(36:01):
is you can't even write script this shit.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah. I remember covering you always talk about how great
you were and your story was so inspirational? Was that
to me? And I always thought to myself on the
outside looking in, when everyone would have these what we
call packages about you and what you had been able
to accomplish, I thought that felt like pressure, maybe undue pressure.
Did you like the attention that you were receiving and
(36:25):
the way the narrative had splipped from you know, he
had this problem, but now he's back and he's bigger
than ever, and he's great, and this is an inspirational
story and he's Was that any pressure for you?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
It all happened really fast. I went from working at
sprouts to second best player in my position, like right
on Travis Cocy's heels, and signing a big contract in
less than a year and a half.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
So it's all happened fast, and I was not used
to being I was on the star at every level.
Like I was in high school, I was like the
third highest recreated recruited player on my team. There's coaches
that would come for two other guys and they wouldn't
talk to me. In college, I was one of the
lowest rated recruits in the class. I don't think I
had a thousand yards receiving my entire four years combined
in college was like nine hundred and seven yards. Like
that's not eye popping to anyone. My first few years
(37:13):
in the league, I was just playing special teams, so
it's like I was never like in that role of
like he's the So it was very strange to deal with.
And it's like did you like it?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Did you love it? How it felty outside of strange?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I like that. I feel like it was like another high,
you know, Like I wasn't doing drugs and alcohol anymore,
but the highs that came from that, highs that came
from relationships with women, access to that, you know, and
just the plays and just the plays on the field,
the hot like real like the endorphins and the highs
you get from making those plays. It was just like
that was like those maybe feel good, but then it's
like those are all temporary, you know, so it's like
(37:49):
come down and I'm like I'm still the guy that's
like I'm good at football, but like I'm not. I
am I'm not willing to die for this shit, Like
you know, everybody's like each sleep breathe, like that was
just never me and I always feel like I had
kind of had to hide that and.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Just still still yet another thing. You can get to
the top of one mountain and then you got to
climb another. In your mind, it's always the way how
do you stay sober?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, sobriety is like a whole different thing for me
now because I feel like drugs and alcohol for a while,
I was like, oh, this is victory, like I've won,
But really it was just like that was just like
the entry level for me because it's really you're not
if you're dealing with drugs and alcohol, you're not really
dealing with the root. You're dealing with the symptom. So
it's like there's a reason why I started to use
drugs and alcohol. So if you take that, take those away,
(38:34):
I still got to deal with what put me in
that place, which I don't thinkl like I ever really did.
Like the success happened so fast. I'm just like, oh,
my life's great, Like I'm good. I'm this person people
think is like this beacon of hope for recovery and
turn my life around. What could go wrong? And it's
really just like now I'm learning, Like through all those years,
(38:54):
through all the like relationships and the addictive patterns and relationships.
Just like, sobriety is more so to do with like
any emotional level than it is like what I may
be using, Like the behavior can always change. So it's
just like it's a whole new journey.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Now there is sobriety is is there this? I don't know,
So I'm asking you, is there a constant because I
fight to fight an urge of taking a pill or
doing you know, having some whatever it is, I'm taking cocaine,
whatever it may be. Is there a constant urge to
(39:28):
not do that or put yourself in rooms where that
is happening, or in positions or places where people are
doing that around.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You at this position in our recovery. No, it's not
drugs or alcohol. It's it's more so from the emotional
place of like I need to do some behavior to
not deal with the discomfort that I feel on some level.
Like so that behavior could be shopping, it could be
a relationship, it could be whatever. And it's like, so
(39:57):
it's not like I'm trying to use drugs, alcoholicy, It's like,
how do I learn to sit with the discomfort of
my feelings and like take the contrary action that I
to what I want to take to be able to
regulate myself and to be able to you know, be
the person that God wants me to be as opposed
to like still being this person that needs to get
(40:18):
a fix from something to feel better. That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, that's so heavy. Yeah, that's heavy. Wow, I don't
understand it, but I empathize with it. But I think
everybody has their own emotional struggle, and I think that
it's you know, I honestly believe God gives his tough
as battles to the strongest soldier so that you can
use your platform to encourage everybody. You then get married,
(40:46):
and then you get a divorce very publicly, a public marriage,
a public divorce. Was there any time during that transition
where you felt like I can't deal and I need
to cope. I need to do old school coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, absolutely, for sure, one hundred percent, Like because that's
that's tough, like and for me, like that's where the
patterns of the addictive patterns being in relationships went all
the way up until being with her, And so it's
like realizing now that it's like my definition of love
needs to be like completely retooled and dug up and
(41:24):
have a new foundation, because what's love to me is
really just like an emotional high. So it's like when
the emotional highest therapist that I work with, she was like,
you know, this is not to take a shot, but
it's like the relationships that you've been in in your
past is like people are dopamine vending machines, and when
they don't have any more soda left in the vending machine,
(41:45):
you go to a different vending machine to find it
a sprite. And so it's just like Mike Tyson good bunch,
It's like, and it's like sitting with the fact that
it's like, you know, looking back, it's like man addicted
pattern of just going coming in and out of people's
lives and things almost feeling like a blur when you
(42:06):
look back on these relationships. So it's just like that's
the crux of the work. Now.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
It's just like what you describe isn't foreign. But I
think men and women do that.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Oh, I see all the time now. I hear in
the songs on the radio, I see it in the
movies we watch, Yeah, I see I see it through
a completely different lens. Now and it's just like, yeah,
it almost makes me appreciate It's just like developing a
new definition of what intimacy is because it's not sex,
it's not you know those things that we think it is.
It's just like allowing yourself to be in front of
another person.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Guards down, Like, that's the hardest thing.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I've never been able to do that.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
That's the hardest thing.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Anyn, I'm running for the hills.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, yeah, don't don't ask me to show you who
I am? How dare you? Dare you ask me to
reveal who I am? Vulnerably sat of here? Excuse my
French fact? When you realize that that in this relationship
that you were in, when the high was gone, you
were like, I can't do this anymore? What does that
(43:07):
look like when the high is gone? I And here's
the reason why I asked, because your relationship was touted
so publicly and it was so beautiful, and everyone thought
it was what they wanted. You know how people are,
and it probably was what you wanted right.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Right, it was.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, when when does it turn? When do you realize
I'm not getting this high that I need to be here?
What does that look like? In your life.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
It's a combination of things, starting with you know, getting
traded I think they are, getting back from honeymoon, and
then being you know, cross country by myself most of time,
and no network of friends, not really going to meetings,
relationship with God and faith kind of dwindling, and so
putting me back into that state of like you know,
(43:52):
seeking a high. And then there's gets the point where
she comes out there and you know, she's in a
new environment, no network of people out there, this is
a new chapter of her life, you know, and me
being a person like I was supposed to be like
that stable you know, support for her to be like okay,
like this is where we're going to get through the
season where it's just like I'm like this ain't this
(44:15):
ain't the high that I'm used to and just literally
like vanishing.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, you find yourself in a lot of ups and downs,
really really big highs and then really really really extremes.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
There's no there's ever never there's never.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
A middle ground for you. Never have you ever have
you ever in your life remember a time where it's
been middle of ground.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Nah, it's starting to be formed now, putting some new
cement on the ground now, but yeah, never never before
this year. As it's built, you.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Go to a new team, you play for the Giants
for a bit, and you decide you get sick. Help
me know the process to that that led you to retirement.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, I mean that was wicked before. So we played
the Buffalo Bills last year Week six, and I just
had this moment. We're running I think it's like first
quarter or second quarter. We're running this running play and
I'm like leading through the hole. I'm a full back
down here, but this play is very effective, Like we're
it's probably the best blockie I've ever happened. Like it
(45:16):
was blowing the coach's mind. They're like, what the hell
I was like, I don't know. But in the first quarter,
I'm just looking at the moon, I don't know, and
I'm just like, what the fuck am I doing? Like
like literally, I'm like, yeah, I'm out, Like like I'm like,
I'm gonna finish this year and give them all that
I got. Like I try to have those kind of morals,
but like, I'm not here because I want to be here,
(45:40):
and I'm saying, yes, this is where I want to
be in my life, and I think like the next week,
I had like one hundred yards in a touchdown and
they were like, yeah, he's back, Like we're about to
get on the roll. And when my teammates I told
I was done, I was like, I came out after
I scored, I touched down doubt if. I was like,
I'm still done and yeah, but then it was I
got hurt against the Jets end of October. The following week,
(46:02):
the following Monday, I was shooting a video with a rod,
so I stayed back. I was hurt, got back to
my condo. Long story short, I think I had COVID
coming down with his fever, and I'm like, ah fuck,
I got it again. Like I got to just sweat
it out for the night, but then I couldn't breathe.
I came down with like this viral infection of my
lungs and then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm losing consciousness.
So I'm like trying to call nine one one and
(46:23):
they're saying they can't understand me. Then I finally get
to my address clear enough and I get up out
of my bedroom, cut the lights on, stumbled and propped
the shoe on the door. So the paramaids could just
swing the door open and sit on the couch, and
I was just like breathing, fighting for my life, and
in between I'll take breast. I would yell help to
try to wake up my neighbors. And then I was like, damn,
(46:44):
I'm about to die here on this couch and I
don't really like the way that I'm going out, And
so the paramac and the cop got there just as
I was like really starting to fade. And then I'm
just sitting in the hospital for three and a half days.
I need help pissing, he help shit, and need help eating.
And then I'm just like, yeah, the same, the same,
the life. Man, Like I don't know, Like I'm like
(47:05):
I've given a lot to the game, and I feel
I just feel like my mission is accomplished here, and
I feel like God had to do a lot to
show me that and for me to be like okay
and to step out of my comfort zone, because the
worst thing I want to do is look crazy to
other people and step out and say this is what
I'm doing and won't behold guy's like, oh yeah, we
(47:26):
about to hid them with the triple whammy at the
beginning of the year. So yeah, very intense, very intense year.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
How many lives do you have?
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I'm pushing cats to the limits, like I got, I
got a few.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
More than nine, more than nine. I feel like your
purpose is bigger than I than you even know.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, I have no idea at this very moment. I
have no idea. Some days I'm like, I think I
know where I'm headed, Like I feel like it's like
some days where I'm like, like yesterday, I don't know
what the fucking but I know, like the decisions I
may are supposed to have me in this season of
me kind of abandoning everything that I think I know.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I'm rooting for.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
You can feel it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
You feel it.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Darren Waller, thank you for being on naked. You were
really naked. Oh yeah, reruly naked, like you came to play.
He don't have no clothes. Okay, I know you got
to get out of here. Thank you so much for
doing this. No, it was all you inspire me. It's inspiring.
I think if there's one thing I will say, I
hope you can replace whatever shame it is you have
(48:37):
with inspiration. Because your origin story and the arc, the
ups and the downs, and ups and the downs are
so familiar. Everyone has it, they're just not as honest
about it. Yeah, and when you talk about it, it
inspires me. Music in this episode of Naked Sports came
(48:59):
from your truly Darren Waller, Internal Warfare, his latest EP.
Also the other album Walking Miracle. Check it out wherever
you stream your music. Thank you again, Darren for being
so naked and allowing us to use your music. I
hope you all enjoyed this edition of Naked Sports. Have
a good one.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
That it is facts at the toe and the front.
Y'all might want to head to the back. In fact,
you know how I'm coming this therapy on mospit. I
learned to carry my weight and I ain't did a
reperol crossbit yet. Here are a lot of niggas talking
about their own bosshit. But I can't respect somebody that
ain't failed out and ain't lost shit. You know. See,
my life circumstances have taught me some valuable lessons. It's
(49:42):
all about the space through what lens are you viewing
the world. I had to really sit back and evaluate mine,
and as a result, my life changed forever.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Kerry Champion,
produced by Jacques Thomas Sound Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Associate producer Olubusayl. Shabby Naked Sports is a part of
the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
You know, sometimes you got to sit still and get
right with your maker. But dance has come to you.
Let life on phone how it's supposed to. You know
what I'm saying, or you don't believe me this week,
I'm Darren Waller, formerly known as an NFL athlete, played
(00:26):
eight years in the NFL. But I'm try you're living life.
I'm an artist, an uncle, I'm a brother, I'm a friend,
a son. I love to be out in nature. I
love all things. I'm just loving the human experience.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
What type of artists are you? What art do you
partake in?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I partake in the creation of good music. You could
say I'm hip hop because that's kind of what I
grew up on. And yeah, I'm proud to be a
part of what hip hop is contributing to culture. But
I'm influenced by all styles of music and they all
kind of show up in little ways. The two CDs
that got the most rotation in my in My Walkman
Growing Up where jay Z Black Album and Kanye West Graduation.
(01:03):
So you know guys that were, you know, vulnerable to
an extent in their rapps talking about what they've gone through,
what they've climbed through, you know, I got like Kanye
what he had to persist through just to get to
where he was musically, those kind of guys, But just
like just the standard of excellence and what they're doing.
When I listen to that music, I'm like, Okay, that's
the standard. So like when I make something, that's what
(01:24):
I'm trying to strive for. I'm not trying to make
something to kind of come up or let people know like, oh,
he's rapping. I'm like, I want to contribute something to
music to where people can walk away and be like oh,
or like think about something differently or change their perspective.
Will be moving too fast walking my pace. May even
knew that I was top ten before I dropped in
over the Baby, and they thought they have me boxed in.
I was locked in the whole way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Darren Waller is a former NFL tight end who has
shared his story over the years. Recently retired from the league,
he spends his time now making music and I would
also say honoring his shadows as he recovers from drug addiction.
In this episode of Naked Sports, Waller is raw and graphic,
and it could be triggering for some who may be
(02:04):
recovering from an addiction or still in the fight. But
my hope is that his story helps and heals. Welcome
to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at the
intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal the
(02:25):
common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying to.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Get to for almost thirty years.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Kayden Clark wrote the all time single game assists record.
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
To the polls where history is written, and now we
have Kamala Harrison, it feels more like women are sort
of taken what they've always deserved, as opposed to waiting
on somebody to give them what they've deserved.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community do we create. In each episode, will
sit down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because
at the core of it all, how we see one
issue shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I always been told I can't be Meani yoka, I
do what my mother say, don't know. I thought life
was easy to just really harm and it must be
another way. A boy goes turn into a man, we
do you know, he can't run and he gotta go
right through it? No way.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I know when you wrap, what do you wrap about?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Mainly I'm rofughing about my experiences, the struggles I've had,
just like me trying to figure out, you know, myself,
how to love and accept myself. Because there's times where
it's like I feel great about myself and what I'm doing.
I've always been this, you know, performer for people, and
that's kind of giving me my word for a while,
but realizing the other side of that to where it's
like if I'm not performing or if I'm just to
(04:00):
be my authentic self and I make mistakes, like am
I still lovable? Like? Am I still all these things?
So I rap about all those things. And I also
grew up in Atlanta and listening to the New York hip
hop where dudes around there, you know, trying to get
their bars off.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okay, do a little bit of that. Okay, So just
yesterday you released minip You want to tell us about it?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, so the EPE is called internal Warfare. This two
shot pass. There's been a few EPs this year where
I've like combined the name of a couple of songs
in the project to make the title. So but with that,
it's like, like I said, there's there's always been two
sides of me. There's this me that's like, you know, loving, caring,
you know, has depth, and there's this other side of
me that's like, you know, through my football journey and
(04:42):
just through life and trying to figure out where I
fit just being like competitive and aggressive and you know,
just having a point to prove. There's these two sides
that often clash within me. But when I'm able to
accept those two kind of like we talked about before,
that's where I'm able to find the piece, you know,
that two shot pass. I don't always have to feel
the way that I feel forever. So that's kind of
(05:03):
the theme bot.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
When you say there's two sides, I'm curious because I
think everyone experiences that, But why can't that just be
the whole of you, the some of who you are?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
That's honestly the goal, Like you hit the nail on
the head, like it gets the goal, just to be
like there's my therapist Alwa says, there's no bad parts
right parts there, there's nothing bad. They're all just some
ways in which I'm trying to keep myself safe or
you know, ultimately fine fulfillment in life. They are these
you know, sometimes coping mechanisms, survival tactics, but really they're
(05:32):
just all me and they deserve to be loved and accepted.
But for most of my life it's always like, well,
it's been like a perfectionist trying to be accepted by people.
So it's like if it's not fitting the good label,
it's shunned until like I can because I don't want
people to see me the way that I see myself
my life.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So it's it's interesting because labels are like when we
put a label on anything. And I even told you
that I was listening to Internal Warfare this morning as
I was preparing for this interview, and I assumed that
I would not enjoy it as much as I enjoyed it.
I assumed that, which was so unfair. And I don't
(06:11):
like labels, but I find myself just conditioned. This is
a human condition. You do that with people without even
knowing it, and it was to me, what I was
able to hear was someone reconciling the good and the bad.
But really it was this beautiful alchemy of who you
ultimately are. I just was like, we're also complicated in
so many ways. We don't have to be one thing.
(06:33):
Do you when you grew up, and this is not
even a heavy question, do you feel like because I
know my therapist will always say it is because the
way you grew.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Up, So.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, I mean, I'm coming in touch with every area
of my life is being traced back to my childhood
and like that early part of your life from like
zero to eight is where your brain is formed and
like how you believe yourself to be in the world,
and zero to eight for me, it was like I
don't know where I fit in. I don't feel like
I'm welcomed or accepted as I am. I feel like
(07:05):
I'm not enough. I feel like I have to change.
So it's like I can be a thirty two year
old man sometimes and still showing up as that eight
year old version of myself because this real trauma. That's
how I came to find my way in the world.
I guess I grew up the suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia. Okay,
thirty minutes north. Nobody knows where Actworth, Georgia is. People
alread know where Cannessas is now. But yeah, like thirty
(07:26):
minutes north of Atlanta's so very nice neighborhood, good public schools.
Nothing in the environment that was triggering or harming to
my development or nor in the home either. My parents
are still married to this day, thirty eight years. But
it was just the social aspect of things where it's
like I feel like a total alien everywhere that I go.
(07:48):
I mean, so I was like they put me on
this gifted academic path and a lot of times like
I was one of two or the only black kid
in my classes. And then it's like through that route,
I'm a little of a nerd, and so I get
around like football teammates and they're like, you know, everybody
feel like they got to be macho, and I'm like
the nerd that's got to go do homework or you
know what I'm saying, like, or my classes are in
(08:09):
a completing way. It's like why are you nerdy? Why
are you this? Why are you that? And it's like
I had friends growing up, my neighborhood who became my
good friends. We just did all the same stuff together.
They were white, and so it's like, oh, you ain't
And as a kid, it's like, I don't really. I
wish I had like the adult version of me for
them to be like, man, that's that's just them trying
to find their own way and projecting that on you
(08:30):
because you're interested into things. But I didn't have that,
So I'm just like, oh damn, I don't want to
feel like this. So I'm around these people, I'm act
like this around them. I'm gonna be like this. I'm
in that room. I got to make sure I show
up like this.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I hear that all the times from my friends who
are bi racial, mixed, however you want to describe it,
because that is a label. It is a true label,
and it's so unfortunate. Do you how do you identify
if someone said to you, are you a black man?
Or would you like, I'm a mixed man. You know
how tighter woods will say, well, I'm not one hundred percent.
Do you feel like you have to identify with black
(09:02):
and or white or what? I don't know what you're
mixed with?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I'm black, like my dad's just like light skin. My
mom is dark skins, like I'm black. So I'm really like,
well you do I mix at all? I gotta do
an ancestry kit or.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Something racist, Carrie, I think you.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Do an ancestry can go walking to me like, what
are some people think? I'm the media?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know you have you got to do the kid.
We need the kid.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I ordered the kid recently, but and I put this
live in it but I think I left town and
it's still on my counter months later.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But don't send them all your information because they're going
to use that to AIU. Okay, no, seriously, that is
because you look like everything is something else. People tell
you that your entire life.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, all people still to this day interesting fascinating.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I'm racist. I'll deal with that. So so when did
you start? When did you start playing football?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I was four years old. We had just moved to Georgia.
We were in Colorado. Out of my dad moved. We
moved to Georgia, so my dad got a job at
Coke and I guess they were just kind of like
starting to throw me into things. My first year of football,
I was playing the offensive line. I wish I had
my I think my mom still has a picture somewhere,
but she put me out there with like this padding
all over my body, like bicet pad, elbow pads, playing
(10:21):
offensive line, defensive line. But then the next year, when
I was five, I started playing quarterback. And I played
quarterback all the way up until high school. And I
was just fascinated with like NFL films. I would binge
watch it and my parents will tell stories about like
I'd be out there playing quarterback and the coach to
run and play and I'd be like, we can't run
it this way because the way the defense is set up.
We got to run like a counter back this way
and stuff like that. So I was like, as a kid,
(10:43):
like my I was, I was definitely gifted, like intellectually,
so like football was where I devoted a lot of
that too, and other sports played basketball and baseball, but football.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Was like the first one that was your So if
you played, you played other sports obviously. And it's so
funny when someone has a position of tight end, you
immediately think, oh, they should be playing ball, you know,
you immediately think that ended basketball rather right, when did
you decide that football was going to be the path.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Well, the other sports kind of got eliminated going into
high school. I think I was probably like doing too
much playing baseball, like pitching and playing outfield. So I
have an elbow injury that I ended up hurting pretty
bad my sophomore of high school playing football, and then
I got kicked off the basketball team halfway through my
junior year probub when I was getting good, which is
like my first year was for varsity. Football was my
junior year too, So.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Why did you get kicked off arrested? Okay, well that
could happen, right, it happened.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It was like, well, I feel like I had like
too much pride to go back the next year because
they kicked me off. But then for my junior year,
I was like, I had a good year, Like I
played defense, I had a whole bunch of tackles, and
then I got my first couple of scholarship offers at
the end of my junior year, and I was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Football, it is football, it is yeah, so it eliminated
and told you where you were going to go. I
of course have to get to why were we arrested?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So there were these kids on my football team in
high school and they liked bashing people's car windows out
with like bat and like throwing coke cans and rocks
through people's house windows. And I was like, you know,
this kit trying to be cool and be yeah, and
so I was like, I'll drive us and go around.
And we were in the neighborhood next to the neighborhood
(12:21):
that I lived in, and then somebody was out walking
their dog or somebody saw got my license plate and
maybe I was just like parked in one spot like
a very amateur.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, we're criminal.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And then like basically like I had to take the
fall for everything. So I had, like you know, that
was the first offender, but I had like felony damage
to property and trespassing things I had to go.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I was in court like you don't write out your people. Nah,
you just took the all for them. Wow, that says
a lot about you.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
It's kind of like culture though you can't.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
You just had to take the all, but you did
they have as much to lose as you had in
terms of their upside. Did they play sports where they.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Were all all on the football team, these were all
like all the dudes were talented in the car.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Did they go bro no, none of them did okay,
but you okay? So then you were like, yeah, it
was me.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
They got reduced to misdemeanors. So I was like on
probation for a bit and had to do like this
diversion program and go take all these classes, and then
I was fine.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Only reason why I asked is something about the how
old were you at the time, seventeen? There's something about
that age because for me, I got arrested probably when
I was fourteen for shop lives and I don't know what.
I just to do it. I was bored, and I
was hanging around a bunch of people who were doing
it and they were getting new and I think to myself,
(13:44):
I had three hundred hours of community service. I spent
my whole summer doing community service. And I was so
embarrassed by that. But when you're bored, I think that's
just a level of how smart we are and we
have nowhere to place all of this this energy that
we have. Did you ever think of it that one?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah? And there's at least for me, there's this there's
me being an atticant, Like there's this addiction to high
risk behaviors that has been a theme throughout my life,
but like so stuff like that, Like I was shoplifting,
I was, you know, stealing a whole lot in college
and doing all these things. But it's like I'm getting this, like, oh.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It was so much fun. Yeah, it was a rush.
It was like, if I can get away with it,
let me do it again and again and again. When
did you know you had a problem with drugs?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I don't think I ever thought I did. I always
thought I was in control, probably until I overdosed.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
When Naked Sports continues, Darren relives the day he overdosed
back in a moment.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yoga Dog Dog.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
This episode of Naked Sport is about Darren Waller and
the life that he's lived and of course, what's next
after being in the NFL. He shared his story of
addiction and recovery on other platforms. We begin now when
Darren chairs what was once his drug of choice? When
did you start taking drugs?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
First thing was like painkillers my sophomore year high school,
fifteen years old. Then they started smoking weed, then introduced
to bud Light and sky vodka along the way as well.
So yeah, it was just it just kind of built
up and then by the time I went to college.
I was just like full time, partying, part time athlete.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And you never thought you had a problem.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Nah, because I could always, like, you know, show up
and be like respectful and look you in the eye.
And my grades were always good, and you know, and
I'm playing football. I have all these things I can
justify like, I can't have a problem. I'm a Division
one athlete, I'm at a great college. I'm YadA, YadA, YadA,
and so I could always hide behind that and just
be like, yeah, I'm just in college having a good time.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Interesting and so you were like, I'm fine. I'm all said,
they didn't. So when you get to there was no
level where you as you were in college or even
I know, when you got to the pros. But they
do drug tests.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I got into the system of guys that on my
college team that are like, you know, if we go
on this route, we got to be locked in. And
so when they would drug test us, they would drug
test us at the indoor facility, which we had to
walk up good ways to practice. So every day of
practice it was like a five hour energy shot bottle
of clean pea that I had in my girdle and
(16:35):
I'd put it over with my sneakers. So when they
practice ended, there'd be aligned for the drug tests. Your
crotch would be hot from practice because your PA had
to be a certain temperature or for them to accept it,
otherwise they'd be like nah, obviously. So I'd put it
in my crotch, keep it warm, and there'd be a
hole in the bott of my girdle and you can
squeeze the pee out into the cup. So I was
passing numerous tests.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
How did you even how did you even come up
with that plan? Really curious that the process to be
like so, just so I won't get caught, this is
what I should do.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I mean, I was just basically soaking in knowledge from
what older guys on the team that I was rolling
with we're doing. I'll just absorbed it like a sponge,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So it's a whole process.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, in order to you know, keep what I'm doing
a lot, because I'm willing to do whatever for me
to keep doing what I'm doing. That's addiction.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wow, fascinating, I feel because it feel like I had
so much trouble. I didn't feel like there was a
lot of trouble to you back then.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Looking back, it was looking back just the whole time.
It was exhausting, Like, but it's crazy in the moment,
you don't see it that way. You're just like, oh man,
I gotta like because when I do, you know, get
to where I want to get, Like, it's the piece
that comes from taking what I'm.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Taking, right, So when you then I'm fast, I'm fast forwarding.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
So you go through college, you're able to avoid evade
whatever word you want to use this system because you
are really intelligent. This is what I always think. It's
interesting when people are breaking the law doing something that
they shouldn't do. Myself included, that's when you see how
smart someone because they're dumb criminals.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Right something crazy. So so I almost almost didn't make
it through college. It's like three strike thing. So I
had two strikes and made it out. But there was
one time where I think I had like a little
bit of clean time because like I was just under
I had to lay low for just like a little bit.
And it was after a fall camp scrimmage on a
Saturday morning. We had a piss test and this is
(18:28):
when they introduced a mouth swab. And they do a
mouth swab, they can detect if you views like the
last twenty four or forty eight hours and there was
a dude on my team where he's like odds to me,
He's like, I'm about to fail. So we swapped mouth swabs.
I give him my saliva, like so he can pass
the test. Like I've been clean, yeah for a little bit,
(18:49):
Like I can help you today.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I get your like, look, I could do anything
for you.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
They're sending me to outpatient programs and I'm getting tested
like like so there's like a little bit of spread
in there where I was like, all right, I'm clean,
but so I could help him day.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
You know, that is crazy to me. So you're like
I'm the main one. But that tells me something. That
tells me you were really talented. That tells me that
they did everything to protect you because you were so
talented and you knew that and they knew that you
had a problem. Because if they're sending you to programs
and they're trying to take care of you, whoever they
is who was the day Georgia Tech.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah Yeah, my college coach, coach Johnson, he would always
be like anytime I came into his office, He's like
you're tripping. But anytime they ask him an interview, he'd
be like, he playing on Sunday, And it's like I
didn't even believe I was going to play on Sunday. Interesting,
that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Does that Did that make you feel good about yourself?
Knowing how talented you were that they would do by
any means necessary to protect you.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I couldn't see it that way because I didn't really
have a lot of confidence in myself.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
How'd you see it?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Self respect? It was just like it was just like
that's a comp You know how people are, like they're
just like so awkward when they receive compliments. It's like
they just cannot refuse it. They're like, ah, nah, I
wasn't just that was kind of me like silently, I
just like I don't even know how to receive it.
So I just don't feel good about myself on a
day to day basis.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Did they ever try to do a mini intervention? Was
there ever a time where someone said, you're so talented,
you really got it, you really got to take care
of yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
A lot of people said that a lot of people
at Georgia Tech. John Harbaugh repeatedly with the Ravens. Ozzie
knew some would say that they come down in the
Cafeterian nig what do you do?
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Like?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What do we gotta like? What do we gotta do?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And I'm just like, I leave that day get high?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
What did you say when they say that?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Just like I'm trying to stop man Like, I'm not
like I give people to run around, Like that's giving
a run around.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh, but you knew you were telling them what they
wanted to hear, basically, But you knew right away you
get high when you leave. Was that guilt?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, that shame weighs on you. It's heavy, heavy, is exhausting.
And then it's like you're trying to go out on
the field and think like you're this undisciplined person in
your personal life and like having shame and not really
a lot of confidence. Suppos I'm supposed to go out
in the field and be this disciplined performer with confidence,
loyal to my team. It doesn't it's got to be
(21:07):
you got to be that person. And just without the pads.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
On, I am listening to you tell this like version
of this story, and all I think as I'm hearing
you say this is that people really cared about you
and really really loved you and really wanted you to
be your best at all times. Like you had a
community of people fighting for you. Why you weren't fighting
for yourself all the time. And I know that probably
(21:31):
makes you feel guilty, but I also would feel I
was like on the outside looking in, I'm like, oh,
he's really special. I think it was more than just
your talent. They really felt like you were special. Did
you feel that, Yeah, it.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Was just hard to receive that level of love. I'm
just like, you know, kind of talk about the therapist
saying from when we were kids, like from his kids.
I'm just like, I got to be doing something for
people to love me. It's the truth that's in my mind. Ye.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Same.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So it's like I'm doing all these things that I
know people would think are crazy if they knew I
was doing them. So it's like I'm a piece of
shit in your mind kind of. And so it's like
when people it's hard for you to process. So it's
like if anybody was what was really loved, it was
just like, ah, get away from me. Can people at
arm's length because they're trying to the walls are closing
(22:18):
it as opposed to me being able to see it
as love.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
That's nice. That's nice, meaning like it's nice for you
to recognize what it is now and the outside looking in.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So then I can see Ozzie and Harwack coming to you, Sam,
what's going on? You got to get it together and
you're not the only one. I don't want you to
feel like that. I hope I'm not making you feel
like why just why aren't you doing this? I understand
that that is a real issue, because it's that's addictive behavior.
And then you find yourself in a space where you,
I guess maybe fail too many drug tests and they
(22:47):
suspend you wait and they're like enough to not way
too many. Well, You're like, you have no idea. How
many drug tests do you think you failed? Well, while
you were in the league.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean there was there was time like I'm getting
a weekly FedEx saying you tested positive for oxycodon, just
positive for cocaine, just positive for marijuana, alcohol like weekly.
And then there was a point in time after my
second season where I tore my label on my shoulder
and I was just like, I'm just about to burn
(23:17):
this all to the ground and I was just failing
every test on purpose. So I'll say one hundred maybe
at least probably Wow.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, So what did it take for them to finally suspend.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
You for you do?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
You got to rack up two hundred what what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So if you just look at the scale, you got
to rack up a lot of failed tests just to
even be suspended for a game, like you go through.
The first time you fail tests, they put you in
the drug program. You're just in the program. There's no
real consequences. Next test your doc. One games pay, but
you still play. Then it's two games pay. Then it's
four games pay all before you even get to being
suspended for a game. Then it's you're suspended one game
(23:57):
and then two games, then four games in eight games.
Then I'll stand here playing for free a year.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's not funny.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Dudes on the practice Squadudes on the practice squad were
making more money than me my second year.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
That still didn't bother you.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Hooks too deep at that point, so yes, ye're not
making a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Fascinating, it really is, because it just talks about how
strong it can be. Whatever it is, whatever the device is,
whatever the addiction is. It could be it doesn't have
to be drugs. It could be a relationship, it could
be shopping, like we talked about. Whatever it is, it
could be. It could have such a hold on you
that it doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So then you finally get to the point where they
suspend you for a year, and you and you know
that it's time, right, what do you feel? Are you embarrassed?
Are you ashamed?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, definitely ashamed. I remember I have a cousin, she
lived in DC, and she was a part of this
board of people that are like, it's like a leader
summer leadership, a council for these kids in DC that are,
you know, trying to go whatever path are trying to go,
and they wanted me to come speak on it. I
think it was like the day after I got suspended,
I'm up there. I'm like, I'm a complete fraud.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Kids.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I don't think it hit yet, but I got the
letter and I was like, man, like, I'm up here
telling these kids a whole bunch of mores like that
I'm not really living, you know. So it's and then
from there I was just like I started using more.
I mean I'm I'm coming hills doing cold drinking.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Great were here, We're gonna go all in.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I had to get stop. People were like, when you
decided to stop. I was like, it wouldn't me decided
to stop. I got stopped, I got parked.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, I have a question, but what you said about
being a fraud. I had just interviewed Elliott Connie and
he said the same thing about himself, but he was
a fraud in a very different way. He said when
he was playing baseball in college, he would see kids,
I mean dudes would come up to him and or
one dude in particular kind of nerd, and he was like, man,
you got the life you play. You did that. I
(26:00):
just want to be And he was like, such a
for all my life is horrible.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh, I know that feeling also well when I was
I guess one probably the thing that made me most
fulfilled playing football, honestly was like when we would be
at practice and there would be like young guys on
the team or and you could see like they may
drop past or they may do something, and it's like, look,
there's kind of like a kid that's on the island
on their own. Feeling like I just messed all this up.
It's like going over there and being like, ay bro,
(26:26):
like don't trip, Like.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Why did it fulfill you?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Because I could just see myself back in my early
career in times where it was just like I'm suffering
by myself, and like those little moments start to stack,
it can start the snowball as far as your mental
health is concerned. I'll just go there and be like
just playing that. He'd be like, ay bro, like you
ain't got to stay in that, Like there's no there's
no one thing that can ultimately define you. Because for me,
(26:51):
it's like I was defined by pass and mistakes. There's
no hell hout to me.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
My equivalent would be pronouncing someone's name wrong. Yes, that
happened in air. Okay, let's talk about the day if
you don't mind day that part.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah. August eleven, twenty seventeen. I yeah, overdosed on. I
was taking a Perker set and the other people in
Baltimore at the time that are like, hey, like be careful,
they're pressing pills.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Now.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It could be fitting all D D and so, but
you know people are like, ah, it can't happen to me,
Like I'm I'm probably like I'm this athlete and at
the time, I would snort pills because like you get
hit quicker, like did you take them orally like twenty
minutes or so, like I need to be need for
that immediately. Then I pulled up to the giant grocery
(27:40):
store by my apartment and it was like about to
get out the car, but then I was like, oo,
if I get this car, I'm gonna just PLoP on
the ground, like it'll be a whole scene, like, can't
have that. I just closed the door and just like
sat back in my car and it was just like
somebody pulled the plug from behind the TV.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Really, yeah, when you're aware, you're aware, are you?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Like I was just it was just like I was
like one second, it was like like like the plug
by the TV got pulled, and I'm just like and
then I wake up and it's like nighttime.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And are you in the same space, And I'm like cold.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
And like like big huge beads of sweat, Like you
never think your beads of sweat would be that big.
It was just like whole like and I was just like.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, no one came to the car, No one knocked
on the door. No one noticed you sleeping. You were
just in the parking lot by yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Then what I went home?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
My dad had landed. We were supposed to be moving
out of my apartment the next day because I was
I got suspended. I was moving back home to my parents,
and I just you know, got together and just started
moving stuff out and just went home and never really
told anybody until like I go through go through therapy,
and then you're like, oh, like you just falling. I
didn't just voluntarily take a nap that day.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, So did someone have to tell you you overdose?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
You like putting the pieces together? Like after I was like, ah,
like that's what that was.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So you didn't know what that was. And then you
got on a plane and you you packed up, you
bet your dad like no big deal, and kept doing
your own thing.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I just thought I was like too high or just like.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Do you know how incredibly lucky you are? Right and
so blessed.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
All the story?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Wow, that's amazing. But your whole life, your whole life,
So what do you do with this this vacation that
the NFL gives you?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I went to rehab and Maine.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
What made you do that because you overdosed.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, So that was when I didn't say anything coming
out of it. But once I got home, it was
just like I got a call from the Ravens doctors.
They're like, we're afraid for your life. We're still getting
your toxicology results. It just keeps getting worse and worse.
Like and so like once you see this addiction specialist
in Georgia and I went there and and the dudes like, yeah,
I took this assessment. They're like, yeah, you need to
(29:54):
go to rehab immediately, dual diagnosis, substance peace, mental health,
everything like go.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
And you're like I'm out.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I was just like you do what really need it?
You're still Then it's like then after that, I was
like okay, like I'm open. Then my parents kind of
had a moment wherever it was like you could tell
like they wish they never had to have told me.
But it's basically like, yeah, addiction kind of runs in
this tree.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh so it's all coming together.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
So it's like I didn't really have a shot to
not be like this.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
But then it's like a moment of like, oh, well,
what are you gonna do now?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
So wow, that's a lot. Yeah, so your parents tell
you that it runs in the family, and how do
you respond to that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think I respond pretty positively, just just enough openness
to go and be like all right, like let me
see what they got. And then it was just like
a game changing experience, which means getting in touch with
like the first time, like I'm honest about how I'm
really doing and how I'm really feeling. And it's just
like I instantly feel lighter, like when I have somewhere
(31:01):
to like put this gest that I just have fermenting
on the other side of me.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yes, I'm excited, and it's.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Like, oh, okay, that's started diving into like the one
on one therapy and going to meetings and you know,
doing all those things, and it's just like it was
exactly what I needed. And I came home and kept
going to meetings, got a job at Sprouts.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
When we return, Darren tells us about his job stocking
shelves at Sprouts while he was waiting to get back
in the NFL. He also talks about ultimately deciding to
retire from the league and getting a divorce from w
NBA superstar Kelsey Plum back in a moment.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
This too pass. If you depressed us, know that it's
too pass. When you're afraid, remember this shot pass. I
know it's hard, dog to pass what you're telling Bro
showed your head king this too shot pass. You know
you wish you with dad a baby. This is too
shot past. You can't see the way, but it's too
shot past.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Yeah, I just want.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
To turn the page on this whole thing. I'm done
with this chapter. I'm done being an actor. No, they
don't really care that. Just want to be entertained.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
What about me after?
Speaker 1 (32:53):
What about my joy? What about my feast? Dog, I'm
gonna need green pastors. But I'll keep telling you that
I'm fine, that I want to make it work. But
it's not time I want to. I was at a
grocery clerk, so I was just like making the shelves
look nice, and uh, people wanted autograph six pH water.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Wait a second, do people know who you were while
you were working at sprouts?
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I was not like a bit like maybe they did,
but like I didn't really have anything.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Physically, you don't look like somebody.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
They were just like, yeah, can you get this off
the top?
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Yeah, because you're.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Like physically this big person is working. You don't look
like you should be working here, Like.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Shouldn't you be on the field somewhere. It's a long story,
I tell you.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Talk to you too. So during that year you worked
at Sprout, you went to therapy. Life humbles you and
a very oh. But the fact that you went and
got a job says so much about you. Do you understand,
Like I'm sitting here like happy for you because you
did that. You didn't have to appreciate that you didn't
have to or did you want?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I needed structure. That's why I realized like, if I
don't got structure, I'm I'm fucked.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So this dude that worked that assistant storemander As Sprouts
when church my parents, She's like, oh, we got job openings.
And I was like, all right. I thought I was
gonna go there and be like, oh, I'm a George
Stay graduate. I could be an assistant manager too. And
I was like, oh, we need a grocery clerk.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
And I was like, and you did it, and you
did it. That makes me happy for you.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
That's how God works. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
He's such a good guy. Then the suspension is wrapping up, right,
talk to me about how you got back into the
league and then you did so well.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, it's just all crazy because I didn't even want
to go back for real. But then I started training
and I was realizing, like, I don't really have anybody
that measures this up against. But I feel like I'm
getting pretty good or just like you know, like building
in my skill set. It's improving. And I get back
to the Ravens that get reinstated in my first day
of training camp and whut they're cooking everybody. But then
they drafted Mark Andrews and hitting hers and they're like,
(34:47):
you know, they already goodan because I mean I never
really showed anything that they could put trust in. So
I got cutting put on a practice squad. I was
in the practice squad for like ten eleven weeks, and
then we were there's a way they played the play
the Raiders one Sunday and rather doing my pregame routine,
me and this other receiver on the team, we'd run
and throw extra routes with RG three would throw to us.
(35:08):
And so that day I just do that and come
in to the locker room and put my sweats on,
watch the game, go home. The next morning my agent's like,
you got signed by the Oakland Raiders. You're going to
Oakland and your flights at like noon. I'm not after shit.
So I was like, yeah, I could use a new
scene because you know, they were used to me being
the yeah, and they were like they were like, oh,
(35:29):
we're proud of you how you're developing, Like if somebody
gets hurt, we'll give you a shot. And I'm just
like I need a new a scene where people kind
of like like they're excited.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
They're like, we want you here where Yeah, you would
have always been a relationship where they want you.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, it's just a different level. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, coach,
I'm gone and went to the Raiders and first couple
of games I played special teams. And there was a
week we played the Bengals. They had a couple of
plays in me and for offense, and I touched the
ball twice in the game. The first one I took
a just sweep for like twenty five yards and the
other one I caught a pass for like forty someven yards.
And I was like, yeah, this is like a this
(36:01):
is you can't even write script this shit.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah. I remember covering you always talk about how great
you were and your story was so inspirational? Was that
to me? And I always thought to myself on the
outside looking in, when everyone would have these what we
call packages about you and what you had been able
to accomplish, I thought that felt like pressure, maybe undue pressure.
Did you like the attention that you were receiving and
(36:25):
the way the narrative had splipped from you know, he
had this problem, but now he's back and he's bigger
than ever, and he's great, and this is an inspirational
story and he's Was that any pressure for you?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
It all happened really fast. I went from working at
sprouts to second best player in my position, like right
on Travis Cocy's heels, and signing a big contract in
less than a year and a half.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
So it's all happened fast, and I was not used
to being I was on the star at every level.
Like I was in high school, I was like the
third highest recreated recruited player on my team. There's coaches
that would come for two other guys and they wouldn't
talk to me. In college, I was one of the
lowest rated recruits in the class. I don't think I
had a thousand yards receiving my entire four years combined
in college was like nine hundred and seven yards. Like
that's not eye popping to anyone. My first few years
(37:13):
in the league, I was just playing special teams, so
it's like I was never like in that role of
like he's the So it was very strange to deal with.
And it's like did you like it?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Did you love it? How it felty outside of strange?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I like that. I feel like it was like another high,
you know, Like I wasn't doing drugs and alcohol anymore,
but the highs that came from that, highs that came
from relationships with women, access to that, you know, and
just the plays and just the plays on the field,
the hot like real like the endorphins and the highs
you get from making those plays. It was just like
that was like those maybe feel good, but then it's
like those are all temporary, you know, so it's like
(37:49):
come down and I'm like I'm still the guy that's
like I'm good at football, but like I'm not. I
am I'm not willing to die for this shit, Like
you know, everybody's like each sleep breathe, like that was
just never me and I always feel like I had
kind of had to hide that and.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Just still still yet another thing. You can get to
the top of one mountain and then you got to
climb another. In your mind, it's always the way how
do you stay sober?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, sobriety is like a whole different thing for me
now because I feel like drugs and alcohol for a while,
I was like, oh, this is victory, like I've won,
But really it was just like that was just like
the entry level for me because it's really you're not
if you're dealing with drugs and alcohol, you're not really
dealing with the root. You're dealing with the symptom. So
it's like there's a reason why I started to use
drugs and alcohol. So if you take that, take those away,
(38:34):
I still got to deal with what put me in
that place, which I don't thinkl like I ever really did.
Like the success happened so fast. I'm just like, oh,
my life's great, Like I'm good. I'm this person people
think is like this beacon of hope for recovery and
turn my life around. What could go wrong? And it's
really just like now I'm learning, Like through all those years,
(38:54):
through all the like relationships and the addictive patterns and relationships.
Just like, sobriety is more so to do with like
any emotional level than it is like what I may
be using, Like the behavior can always change. So it's
just like it's a whole new journey.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Now there is sobriety is is there this? I don't know,
So I'm asking you, is there a constant because I
fight to fight an urge of taking a pill or
doing you know, having some whatever it is, I'm taking cocaine,
whatever it may be. Is there a constant urge to
(39:28):
not do that or put yourself in rooms where that
is happening, or in positions or places where people are
doing that around.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You at this position in our recovery. No, it's not
drugs or alcohol. It's it's more so from the emotional
place of like I need to do some behavior to
not deal with the discomfort that I feel on some level.
Like so that behavior could be shopping, it could be
a relationship, it could be whatever. And it's like, so
(39:57):
it's not like I'm trying to use drugs, alcoholicy, It's like,
how do I learn to sit with the discomfort of
my feelings and like take the contrary action that I
to what I want to take to be able to
regulate myself and to be able to you know, be
the person that God wants me to be as opposed
to like still being this person that needs to get
(40:18):
a fix from something to feel better. That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, that's so heavy. Yeah, that's heavy. Wow, I don't
understand it, but I empathize with it. But I think
everybody has their own emotional struggle, and I think that
it's you know, I honestly believe God gives his tough
as battles to the strongest soldier so that you can
use your platform to encourage everybody. You then get married,
(40:46):
and then you get a divorce very publicly, a public marriage,
a public divorce. Was there any time during that transition
where you felt like I can't deal and I need
to cope. I need to do old school coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, absolutely, for sure, one hundred percent, Like because that's
that's tough, like and for me, like that's where the
patterns of the addictive patterns being in relationships went all
the way up until being with her, And so it's
like realizing now that it's like my definition of love
needs to be like completely retooled and dug up and
(41:24):
have a new foundation, because what's love to me is
really just like an emotional high. So it's like when
the emotional highest therapist that I work with, she was like,
you know, this is not to take a shot, but
it's like the relationships that you've been in in your
past is like people are dopamine vending machines, and when
they don't have any more soda left in the vending machine,
(41:45):
you go to a different vending machine to find it
a sprite. And so it's just like Mike Tyson good bunch,
It's like, and it's like sitting with the fact that
it's like, you know, looking back, it's like man addicted
pattern of just going coming in and out of people's
lives and things almost feeling like a blur when you
(42:06):
look back on these relationships. So it's just like that's
the crux of the work. Now.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
It's just like what you describe isn't foreign. But I
think men and women do that.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Oh, I see all the time now. I hear in
the songs on the radio, I see it in the
movies we watch, Yeah, I see I see it through
a completely different lens. Now and it's just like, yeah,
it almost makes me appreciate It's just like developing a
new definition of what intimacy is because it's not sex,
it's not you know those things that we think it is.
It's just like allowing yourself to be in front of
another person.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Guards down, Like, that's the hardest thing.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I've never been able to do that.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
That's the hardest thing.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Anyn, I'm running for the hills.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, yeah, don't don't ask me to show you who
I am? How dare you? Dare you ask me to
reveal who I am? Vulnerably sat of here? Excuse my
French fact? When you realize that that in this relationship
that you were in, when the high was gone, you
were like, I can't do this anymore? What does that
(43:07):
look like when the high is gone? I And here's
the reason why I asked, because your relationship was touted
so publicly and it was so beautiful, and everyone thought
it was what they wanted. You know how people are,
and it probably was what you wanted right.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Right, it was.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, when when does it turn? When do you realize
I'm not getting this high that I need to be here?
What does that look like? In your life.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
It's a combination of things, starting with you know, getting
traded I think they are, getting back from honeymoon, and
then being you know, cross country by myself most of time,
and no network of friends, not really going to meetings,
relationship with God and faith kind of dwindling, and so
putting me back into that state of like you know,
(43:52):
seeking a high. And then there's gets the point where
she comes out there and you know, she's in a
new environment, no network of people out there, this is
a new chapter of her life, you know, and me
being a person like I was supposed to be like
that stable you know, support for her to be like okay,
like this is where we're going to get through the
season where it's just like I'm like this ain't this
(44:15):
ain't the high that I'm used to and just literally
like vanishing.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, you find yourself in a lot of ups and downs,
really really big highs and then really really really extremes.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
There's no there's ever never there's never.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
A middle ground for you. Never have you ever have
you ever in your life remember a time where it's
been middle of ground.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Nah, it's starting to be formed now, putting some new
cement on the ground now, but yeah, never never before
this year. As it's built, you.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Go to a new team, you play for the Giants
for a bit, and you decide you get sick. Help
me know the process to that that led you to retirement.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, I mean that was wicked before. So we played
the Buffalo Bills last year Week six, and I just
had this moment. We're running I think it's like first
quarter or second quarter. We're running this running play and
I'm like leading through the hole. I'm a full back
down here, but this play is very effective, Like we're
it's probably the best blockie I've ever happened. Like it
(45:16):
was blowing the coach's mind. They're like, what the hell
I was like, I don't know. But in the first quarter,
I'm just looking at the moon, I don't know, and
I'm just like, what the fuck am I doing? Like
like literally, I'm like, yeah, I'm out, Like like I'm like,
I'm gonna finish this year and give them all that
I got. Like I try to have those kind of morals,
but like, I'm not here because I want to be here,
(45:40):
and I'm saying, yes, this is where I want to
be in my life, and I think like the next week,
I had like one hundred yards in a touchdown and
they were like, yeah, he's back, Like we're about to
get on the roll. And when my teammates I told
I was done, I was like, I came out after
I scored, I touched down doubt if. I was like,
I'm still done and yeah, but then it was I
got hurt against the Jets end of October. The following week,
(46:02):
the following Monday, I was shooting a video with a rod,
so I stayed back. I was hurt, got back to
my condo. Long story short, I think I had COVID
coming down with his fever, and I'm like, ah fuck,
I got it again. Like I got to just sweat
it out for the night, but then I couldn't breathe.
I came down with like this viral infection of my
lungs and then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm losing consciousness.
So I'm like trying to call nine one one and
(46:23):
they're saying they can't understand me. Then I finally get
to my address clear enough and I get up out
of my bedroom, cut the lights on, stumbled and propped
the shoe on the door. So the paramaids could just
swing the door open and sit on the couch, and
I was just like breathing, fighting for my life, and
in between I'll take breast. I would yell help to
try to wake up my neighbors. And then I was like, damn,
(46:44):
I'm about to die here on this couch and I
don't really like the way that I'm going out, And
so the paramac and the cop got there just as
I was like really starting to fade. And then I'm
just sitting in the hospital for three and a half days.
I need help pissing, he help shit, and need help eating.
And then I'm just like, yeah, the same, the same,
the life. Man, Like I don't know, Like I'm like
(47:05):
I've given a lot to the game, and I feel
I just feel like my mission is accomplished here, and
I feel like God had to do a lot to
show me that and for me to be like okay
and to step out of my comfort zone, because the
worst thing I want to do is look crazy to
other people and step out and say this is what
I'm doing and won't behold guy's like, oh yeah, we
(47:26):
about to hid them with the triple whammy at the
beginning of the year. So yeah, very intense, very intense year.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
How many lives do you have?
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I'm pushing cats to the limits, like I got, I
got a few.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
More than nine, more than nine. I feel like your
purpose is bigger than I than you even know.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, I have no idea at this very moment. I
have no idea. Some days I'm like, I think I
know where I'm headed, Like I feel like it's like
some days where I'm like, like yesterday, I don't know
what the fucking but I know, like the decisions I
may are supposed to have me in this season of
me kind of abandoning everything that I think I know.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I'm rooting for.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
You can feel it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
You feel it.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Darren Waller, thank you for being on naked. You were
really naked. Oh yeah, reruly naked, like you came to play.
He don't have no clothes. Okay, I know you got
to get out of here. Thank you so much for
doing this. No, it was all you inspire me. It's inspiring.
I think if there's one thing I will say, I
hope you can replace whatever shame it is you have
(48:37):
with inspiration. Because your origin story and the arc, the
ups and the downs, and ups and the downs are
so familiar. Everyone has it, they're just not as honest
about it. Yeah, and when you talk about it, it
inspires me. Music in this episode of Naked Sports came
(48:59):
from your truly Darren Waller, Internal Warfare, his latest EP.
Also the other album Walking Miracle. Check it out wherever
you stream your music. Thank you again, Darren for being
so naked and allowing us to use your music. I
hope you all enjoyed this edition of Naked Sports. Have
a good one.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
That it is facts at the toe and the front.
Y'all might want to head to the back. In fact,
you know how I'm coming this therapy on mospit. I
learned to carry my weight and I ain't did a
reperol crossbit yet. Here are a lot of niggas talking
about their own bosshit. But I can't respect somebody that
ain't failed out and ain't lost shit. You know. See,
my life circumstances have taught me some valuable lessons. It's
(49:42):
all about the space through what lens are you viewing
the world. I had to really sit back and evaluate mine,
and as a result, my life changed forever.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Kerry Champion,
produced by Jacques Thomas Sound Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Associate producer Olubusayl. Shabby Naked Sports is a part of
the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
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