January 27, 2025 • 34 mins
“Five years after his passing, we are honored to share the story of Kobe Bryant—arguably one of the greatest and most competitive professional athletes of all time,” said Eric Johnson, Executive Producer for CNN Original Series
During this episode, we explore the complexities of Kobe's character, his impact on sports and culture, and the nuances of his relationships with the Executive Producer, Eric Johnson.
The docu-series further delves into Kobe's life, providing insights into his early years, his rise in the NBA, his challenges, and the global mourning following his tragic death.
Johnson emphasizes the importance of understanding Kobe as a multifaceted individual--a sports icon and a person with personal struggles and triumphs.
Although for many, Kobe's passing still resonates as deeply as it did five years ago, Cari shares this sentiment, and this episode is a homage to his legacy.
Kobe: The Making of a Legend is NOW AVAILABLE on CNN.
Connect @CariChampion @johnsonerich
Watch: Kobe: The Making of a Legend
Subscribe Cari Champion's YOUTUBE Channel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, everybody, welcome to Naked Sports. We are doing a
today's show about Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bean Bryant, many of
you may know Sunday was a fifth anniversary of Kobe
Bryant's death, and it still feels for me anyway, as
a Lakers fan, loud and proud with my Lakers shirt on,
it still feels to me very real. It feels as
(00:25):
if it's not something that I have been able to
come to terms with. And also it also just reminds
me that life is just so precious. And so there
is a docuseries that came out this weekend Saturday, January
twenty fifth, and it is about the making of a legend,
Kobe Bean Bryant, and it gives us the before and
(00:46):
after of Kobe. It gives us Kobe as a kid
in Italy. It gives us Kobe before he went to
the league, and then it gives us Kobe, you know,
while he's in the league and trying to figure it out.
And like any hero, there are so many different sides
to Kobe that some people love and some people don't.
Is that perfect intersection of being a hero but also
(01:08):
being someone that can be villainized at the same time,
every one of our heroes lives in that dichotomy of
where they are loved and hated. And it also talks
about Colorado, and I do believe to me, approaching what
did or did not happen in Colorado has been arguably
the hardest story to reconcile about Kobe Bryant as one
(01:32):
of his biggest fans, I also believe there are people
who are confused by that as well. But I'm gonna
say the ugly part out loud. The truth of it
is is that winning solves all and we're watching it
in real time in life, but with all of our
heroes and our famous people. But I'm really excited about
the stock You series because I think it's time to
(01:53):
honor him in many other ways ways that allow us.
If you are a fan of sport, if you are
a fan of the Lakers, if you're a fan of
Kobe Bryant, it allows us to get some answers to
such a gray figure. And by gray, I mean he
lived in the middle. We only knew what we needed
to know. He didn't tell us much about who he was.
(02:15):
I really don't know much about his family life, or
how he grew up. I don't really know much about
his relationships with the people he played with, and as
a fan, I think I want all of those answers.
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
(02:38):
the common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
To get to for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records,
Kayman Clark broke the all time single game assist record.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
To the polls where history is written, and now we
have Kamala Harrison, it feels more like women are sort
of taken what they've always deserved, as opposed to waiting
on somebody to give them what they deserve.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Gary Champion.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
My name is Eric Johnson.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I am executive producer for CNN original series. I'm also
EP of some of our singular hours, Blindsided on her Terms,
Serena Williams taking on Taylor Swift. We did Call Me Country,
which is a Beyonce doc that we did last year,
and then we did the Making of Martha Stewart last January,
(03:58):
and this year the making of a Legend with That's
about Kobe.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Right, Kobe believed in himself even at the youngest possible age.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I have decided to skip college and take my talent
to the NBA.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Huge, global to people who may never even know what
a basketball looks like.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Felt this present?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
How did this all come about?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So I'm a huge basketball fan, Knicks fan.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Admittedly, I'm sorry, I'm not Tokyo Tokyo Takyoh Carrie, but.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I'll make a huge basketball fan. I love basketball.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I love this game that's built around putting a ball
in a hoop, and that's the whole game it's about.
It's just simple, and it has evolved into something that
is artful, that is political, that gets people angry, that
makes people smile, makes people laugh, makes people cry, and
(05:00):
and has done all those things with me, and after
Kobe died tragically five years ago, you know, he was
one of my favorite players. Even though he tormented my knicks,
he was one of my favorite players, just like the
heart that he poured into this game that again is
about just simple putting a ball into a basket. And
(05:21):
so something that struck me after he died and when
we were searching for what our next you know, Bio
was going to be from my team, something that struck
me was that I really didn't feel that people after
he passed really knew why.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
His story connected with them.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
His death brought a lot of people together in a
way that was surprising to me. I was surprised by
the amount of just the global love that people had
on this individual at that moment, and I was really
just taken by it. But I didn't feel that people
(06:03):
really connected with this idea that he had a family,
he had something.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Beyond just him on the court.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And when we were putting this and we were developing this,
I wanted to know more about his parents, his relationships
off the court. We wanted to know. I knew that
he grew up in Italy and with his dead and.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, that part especially is very vague, like, yeah, grew
up in Italy.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
That was the life.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
You spoke a Tai and we knew that, But you're right.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
You didn't really know why that was important, how it
framed him.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I knew about when we get into Colorado and all
of that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
When the alleged assault that happened, I knew enough about it,
but I didn't really think that deeply into it. And
so when we were building this, you know, I was
curious about what things made.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
This man the man that he was, and we.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Started doing a lot of research. We sent the team
out out to Europe, to Italy for a couple of
weeks to talk to his friends out.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
There, you know, and let me I hate to do
this right here, but when you say you sent the
team out to Italy and you have to talk to
his friends and family, never once did you think, let
me call it the biggest Kobe fan. I know she
deserves some positive she deserves to be in Italy journo.
We had just given so much love and all of
the bone.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
That I did not go on that trip either.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Okay, okay, fine, let me just move on from that. Okay, No,
this sounds wonderful. I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, So we sent a team there just to get
to know or to speak to people that grew up
with him there correct and could tell us his story
in fluent Italian. There we got all of this amazing
footage that we've never seen of Kobe and his family
living there.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
And then when.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We started doing our research and our archival search for
video here in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia. My whole family's from Philly.
I love Philadelphia. It was interesting to understand how that
city shaped him.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
And then Los Angeles, of course, like there's no place
that loves Kobe more than that city. And so you
have this this guy that was built by a lot
more than just the stuff that he did on the court,
and that was something that we were just eager to
get into.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
When I was looking at these screeners, there are three
because it's this is a three part docuseriies. So you're welcome,
ladies and gentlemen who loves sports and Kobe. What I
thought was really interesting was you were able in these
three episodes to talk about very almost segmented parts of
his life that were very important to what we remember.
(08:42):
One and who he was, how Kobe was, you know,
Kobe before and after Colorado, Kobe before and after the
Achilles to tear, Kobe before and after Shock. Quite frankly,
these he had lives, and they were all and it
could have been happening simultaneously. But at the end of
the day, Kope was. He connected with so many different
(09:03):
I think with me for different reasons than he would
connect with you. I like that he didn't like to
talk to people. I like that he was nobody's friend.
I like that he was really clear that I can't
pass you the ball because you don't work hard enough
in practice, so I can't trust you to me. There
was no emotion to the way in which he played,
unless it was about this singular thing, which was winning. Now.
(09:26):
When he came to Los Angeles, I remember like it
was yesterday. Talk to me about what people will learn
about a kid coming straight from high school, because the
social equity is different when you come to a team
like the Los Angeles Lakers and you're eighteen years old
and you're just shooting shots randomly. What were you able
to discover about his personality when he left high school
(09:47):
and went to Los Angeles to play professional sports. One
of a few.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Man confidence is not even the word it is.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I kept thinking back and when we were doing this,
when we were looking at it him as a teenager
going to the NBA, I'm thinking about myself. You try to,
you know, empathize and as much as you can.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I am not I'm a terrible basketball player.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
But I'm thinking about you were entering not a workforce,
You're entering a profession. So that's one part of it.
It's a physical profession against people that are that you idolize,
and so you're as a kid and yet he was
bigger than most kids his ageality, you're entering this place
and it's a serious sport. They want to jack you up,
(10:32):
and he did not enter that sport soft.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, he entered thinking I'm better than you.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I'm not going to do all of that rookie stuff
that you make the rookies carry this and then I'm
not going to do any of it.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Because I'm not. Because I'm not, and I'm not going
to apologize.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
And because I don't. I shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I shouldn't, And it's it is, I don't know how
you have that.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That's something. And Chase McGrady says, this team when I
sat that with him. He said, I not everybody has that, correct,
you know, that's something you're born with. Is this super
confidence his parents, And this is something that I was
very much eager to kind of explore as much as
(11:16):
we could. His father was a basketball player. His mother
taught him great discipline and competitiveness, and he took that
from them and their belief.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
They had a lot of belief in him.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
When he went off to the NBA, they were right
there and said, oh, yeah, he can do it.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
And I just that's mind boggling.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's mind boggling because usually your parents are trying to
hold you back. But the way he even carried himself,
there's an image there's a clip that you use that
we've seen over before, but when he was leaving high
school and he just stood at the podium and he
was just looking around like you're welcome, it felt very presidential. Yeah,
shades on his head. He was like, let me bless
you all with this information that I'm going to share.
(11:56):
I'm gonna go ahead and take my palettes, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
And I remember that the moment, and it's when do
you a high schooler?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And it's hard for people to see what he was then,
because he's so tall and he's in a suit.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
But like, this is an actual kid.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
That is going to correct Jordan correct and that is
out there saying he's.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Better correct and he was a kid.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
He's a kid, and if.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
He believed it or not, he believed it, you know
what I mean, Like.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
And so and also to go through that whole season
really not caring if people like you, which is something
we all, you know, we struggled now with imposter syndrome
and this and that and the other thing.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
And he's just like, yeah, I'm an impostor. I don't care.
And it's it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I'm like, did I say that? Warngway do such and such?
Like Melway's like, I don't know what happened. Amnesia. The
greats have amnesia. It's the saying in sports, the greats
have amnesia. They're able to forget and focus on what
happens in life. But I mean that applies to life.
But the people who don't ruminate over things and just
do what they know their instinct tells him to do,
whether that be truly authentic or pa really well or
(13:01):
just really special. And he was one of those special guys.
I think a lot of that had to do he
let me, let me put him on the couch. I
think a lot of that had to do too with
his relationship with his parents. As we know, he didn't
have one, and that is a really hard thing to understand.
That wound is tough, no matter how how comfortable he was.
(13:21):
How do you think what were you able to discover
without obviously giving everything away, but what were you able
to discover in this docu series about that, about that
relationship that went unrepaired even until his death.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, I mean I think that it's complicated, and I'm
I'm in listen. I'm in no position to judge anybody's
relationship with their family member, especially when you're very young
and you start making money and your parents are living
with you. I can imagine, and you're Kobe're you're the
best at something at your level, and you're trying to
(13:56):
grapple with being the best and also being a man
and also so trying to you know, he would still
we were told he was still like taking the trash
out for his folks and stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
It was like a real they were a real unit.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I think there are things that we don't know, and
we won't know until those groups decide to kind of
come out and talk about them in terms of what
really went on with their relationship on things that we
just didn't see.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But I do think, I like, I mean, I'm an idealist.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I like to believe that, you know, he's still carried
a lot of the lessons that they taught him on
and off the court. And when we it was really
fun to hear the interviews few as they are with
his mom and with his father. Yeah, that's yeah, you
can you can really hear him in that, you know,
(14:46):
and it you know, it's sad to think about how
their their relationship was fractured, but it's also you hope
that he was able to kind of carry on some
of the major lessons that they taught.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So when we come back explains how they decided to
approach the infamous Colorado rape accusations back in a moment.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant has been accused of
sexual assault. In the back of his mind, he was
thinking like that, in my family exam exam, like that.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
How would you describe Colorado? How would you describe the
rape out allegations Kobe before and Kobe after, and how
the world viewed him.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So let's let's take a step back, because I the
Colorado part of it. I want to.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Touch on.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
How we used it and why I felt, as the
executive producer, that it was important for us to talk
about this, and that is.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
When you start to look at his life.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And when I started to look at the actual transcripts
and dig into it, I had misremembered a lot from
my time when when that story happened.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
There were just things in my brain.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I had remembered that whole a situation much differently than
when I actually started to read what happened.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
And I was I was struck by that.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And it's conflicting because you have your thoughts about this
person and how they died and how you remember them
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
What were you conflicted by?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I don't think I knew the coverage as well as
I thought I knew it in terms of what the
young lady had said happened. I certainly don't remember reading
that apology letter, which is remarkable from Kobe.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You don't remember the letter.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I don't remember at that time. There were just things
that like I personally was not. I remembered the story differently, okay,
And so for me it was important to see how
he was before that, like you mentioned, then after.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
How was he before? In your eyes?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
In my eyes, he.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Was choose my words carefully, sure, yeah, podcasts yeah yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
In my in my brain, I felt like there was
a vulnerability after the fact, there was I think the
Mamba mentality after he after that whole episode, how he
kind of drilled down and was able to channel his
feelings someplace in a way that I don't think he
(17:39):
really was before. Something that I was just really saying,
I'm saying after because beforehand the thing.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That I'm alway, there's and there's eight Kobe exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
But I think the thing that I was very struck
struck by when reading the transcript is just how open
he was with the officers who spoke to Yeah, and
I was struck by that this man who you said
it he didn't talk to. He was very very private,
and in this moment when he's talking to telling people
what happened, he is open. He's vulnerable in that moment,
(18:15):
and I'm sure he probably looks at it much differently.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
It would look at it much differently after the fact.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
But I do feel like there was a change in him,
you know, as as there would have been. And I
think that any honest documentary about him has to has
to address in a serious way. You know what happened
in Colorado, where's that young lady's voice in all of this,
and how that story transformed his life. I was also
(18:44):
struck by the way the cultural culturally have, the way
the culture responded.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
He was on getting a Kid's Choice Award.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I believe it was like two weeks after this happened,
which is for him.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I understand the pr of the world we're in, but
it was just it was just it was what interesting
to be this.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Space of Wow, that's just wild hearing you say that,
because I really I don't look at it that way,
but I know I am so biased. And I also
think there is this because he's passed away, people almost
hesitate to talk about that because you don't want to
speak ill of those who are not here. Of course,
do you remember the gil do we incorporate and I
don't want to give anybody. Okay, So the Gail King
(19:27):
of it all when she right after Kobe's death death
she interviewed Lisa Leslie do you remember that? And she
pushed back and the question was fair. Her commentary, I
don't think was do you think Kobe? She questioned whether
or not he did what he was accused of in Colorado?
That's a fair question. That's just a question. Do you
(19:48):
think it? And then and then when Lisa was like no,
adamantly not, Gail's pushback was, how would you know? That's
just not fair? He wouldn't be that way around you.
Then he and I That's what threw everybody off sent
the question because I feel as a journalist the question
is on the record, which is why I mean, I
think it's inbounds, which is why I'm glad you incorporated it.
But I am I am a believer, especially being in
(20:10):
sports for the majority of my life, that winning solves all.
Oh you have to say the quiet part out loud.
Oh Yeah, I don't care who you are. I don't
care what you do. I don't care what crimes you commit.
Are you bringing me joy in my sports and my
personal life? Whatever joy you're bringing me. We absolve athletes
like there is no tomorrow, and we see that happen.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
We see him travel from the courtroom while a game
is playing, go on to the court and score a
buzzer beater. It is incredible, but it also speaks to
American culture, a culture it's not necessarily even sports or
Kobe relating to what you're saying, which is when you're
(20:51):
killing it, people willing, and so I do think that
that is worth I think that the discomfort that I
think we both have even talking about it now, it's
like it's awkward, and there's an awkward discomfort in talking
about it. But that's one of the reasons why I
was it. I want to make essentiain like I want
(21:13):
to make people uncomfortable, but I want to make sure
that the work we do, it's it makes people think
about how we But you can believe you can come
to the same conclusion and love him at the end
of it, and that is all you.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And that is me. But we should, we should, we
should talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I got to talk openly about what happened, and I
would encourage everybody to do their own research, search into.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
These transcripts available out there.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Everything we've reported in here is has been reported. The
audio you hear of Kobe talking about what happened. Those
are his words, and it's interesting to hear that, and
it was stuff that I just had not I kind
of had put it in an a vault for myself,
and so when we had the opportunity to dig deeper
(21:59):
into this story, you know, I wanted to make sure
we're giving an honest interpretation of someone's full life. But
I feel, I really do feel like it would have
been doing an injustice to him to ignore things, even
if they make us feel a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Well, that's the beauty right of what we do, to
look at the world in a way in which and
ask questions and force people to think. I remember, because
it's not I support the Lakers. I've been a diehard
Laker fan since I was a kid. I didn't have
a choice, and I remember when this was happening. I
was living in Florida. I was a local news reporter,
and then even when I moved to LA working in
Sports Center, and I would always talk about how Kobe's
(22:36):
my favorite player without fail. Whenever I did that, there
would be a women's rights group saying, how could you
support this type of person. They're very adamant that they
didn't like Kobe, and I said, this is one of
these things I cannot explain to you. And I was like,
this is one of these things that feels very hypocritical.
Considering how I try to speak for women. I have
(22:56):
been very adamant about standing up for talk abou different
athletes who have had criminal records for for abusing women.
And here I am in the in this intersection, knowing
that someone can say everything that I'm saying about ex athlete,
they could say about Kobe Bryant. And I was so
in defense of Kobe Bryant. And there was no rhyme
(23:18):
or reason outside of the fact that I am a
fan and fanatically in love with the Lakers. And it
felt so uncomfortable. But I had to make peace with
that as I wear my Kobe shirt. I had to
make peace with that. And I know that people are
upset with that. That intersection is a real intersection of life.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
That's everything.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, that's nuanced, yes, And I think that's something we
try to do really well in the original series at CNN.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
When you look at the stuff that.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
We have coming out this year, Luther, these are these
are nuances I'm waiting for Luthor. He's out it's it's
it's these are nuances.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Wait, Luther is out. When did when did it come
beyond Maxim February?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Luther, all of them Okay, from skinny to big to
in betweens. Because you can't give me one, luthgive it
much like we're discussing Kobe and the Kobe's Oh.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
That what you're talking about, that awkward intersection. I have
been there, not only with this story, but with lots
of stories, and I think.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
That that's a good place.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
There's somebody wrong with being at that place, as long
as you're you're aware of it and you're asking those yourself,
those questions like he.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Just reveals who we are exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
And really that his story the reason I love stories
like his, like Serena's, these are to me the most
American stories. They're complicated, the criminal case will be dropped.
He had to take a good, hard look at himself
and decide who am I really.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
That's when Black Mombel was born.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Back in a moment, it's.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
One of the most remarkable stories in sports history.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
The last thing you think is someone's going to pass away.
The world actually stood still for a moment when you
we all know how the story ends in terms of
what happened with Kobe? How do you how do you
view his death? Because during that time, two things were happening,
(25:23):
the pandemic with the world shut down maybe a month
or and some change.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
It was right after because I remember I was like
March eleventh, I was like at work, which I would
not have been at at that band, but it was
like the last one of the last big gatherings. I
believe was that it was like a national morning, and
then the pandemic really started to pick up right after.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I believe, Yeah, you're right, Oh what will we What
will we learn about Kobe and GG and sadly the
other people who were in the helicopter that day? What
will we learn that we don't already know? How do
you talk about that?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I think what you learn and what I was struck
by is Kobe ended his career really at the top
as playing his greatest basketball as good. He scored like
sixty some odd points in his final game, and that
could easily have been.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
A chapter that kind of closed.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
But he he had this obsession with this idea of
being a storyteller, and I think when I first heard that,
I was like.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, what does that mean? You know?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
But he really was a story.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Dear basketball. That letter he put in the Players Tribune
was really beautiful.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
That's exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And really you see we get we have a whole
section and there's gonna be a digital extra that looks
into deer basketball and some of the other written works
that he did.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, this man loved to tell stories.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
He was a real lover and believer of women's sports
in a way that I think that people know but
they don't.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
He was ahead of the game, Like, really he was
ahead of the game. He was ahead of the game.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
And I think you.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
See you see a glimmer of what his life may
have been. And that's the part at the end of
the episode that I think is just wrenching, is because
you see him driving kind of towards this bigger life.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Oh we do is so sad. I cry all the time, surrible.
I'm not gonna cry on this interview. I promised myself,
I will ask you this. Do you feel like this
will provide I don't know a better insight to who
Kobe Bryan is. He was such an enigma. Players to
this day will say I remember Rick Fox saying Kobe.
(27:51):
We just want to We just want to know. You
need us because Kobe was very isolated, intentionally isolated, and
I think there are many reasons for that, but there
is such a mystery about who he was on and
off the court intentionally. It makes us want more. That's
why I feel like this docu series is so right
on time, obviously, but so important because we want to
(28:13):
know all we can know. We want to know everything.
If he could have done a last dance, you know,
in the way in which Jordan did Last Dance, it
would be just as big, it would be just as revolutionary,
it would be it would be really defining because no
one knew, and no one to this day can really
say definitely what his relationship was with his mother, what
his relationship was with his wife, what his relationship really
(28:34):
was with his teammates, if he really even really liked
all of them that he had. Why did he and
Jack really break up?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I have so many questions, big questions, and those documentaries
they will be out at some point. People will tell
each one of those stories differently. I want to know
everything that you want to know. For what we didn't hear,
we tried to give you from CNN and a look
(29:01):
at who this man was and these critical moments of
his life as a young person.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
At somebody going through one of.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
The biggest news stories that I was brought up with,
that you kind of look back and rescrutinize it and
scrutinize it again in a different way, and then somebody
who what was their life beyond basketball? That's what we
tried to do. We tried to bring and I think
we succeeded in giving people information in parts of his
(29:31):
life that perhaps they didn't know. It's important for me
that people see these athletes, these public figures and so on,
outside of their profession as much as we can, to
see them as fullsome lawed human beings, because that's what
(29:52):
life is. There's a lot in Kobe's life that you
could look at and be like, this makes me mad,
Why what are you you like this? Why didn't you
do X, Y and Z?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Ask those questions.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
You know you're not going to get answers to all
of them, but we hope to give him a little
just I learned so much about him in here that
I didn't know, and some of it had already been
out there, and we were able to kind of just
look back and for me, you know, like I'm on
TikTok Instagram reels. You go, you scroll up, you see
a Kobe trip, you know, little nuggative information or factoid
(30:27):
or a little inspirational thing.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like he's very and I was. It was nice to
see beyond just this way.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We want to remember him and just try to see
this guy that was a kid at one point throwing
rocks off his bicycle in the middle of that to
be the Italian country side.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
That's just it's just super cool.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I think he's amazing, and I think his family, his
parents deserve a lot of credit and worked really hard
to bring this guy where he was where he eventually,
and I think his wife has done an amazing job
securing and protecting his legacy beyond. And so I'm eager
(31:10):
to see these other works that will come out at
some point that delve into different parts of his life.
But I hope in the meantime people enjoy what we
what we offered them.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
It's perfect, it's great. Haven't you seen It's amazing. I'm
gonna say it. I haven't seen it. It's already amazing.
Anyone who loves Kobe is going to love.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
This and please when you are like, just text me.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I'm I'm on a time because twenty seven forty seven, Yeah,
get it.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
I get it. I was like, Okay, so then why
y'all do that?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, I needed a tight shot of No, it's going
to be amazing. I won't even be so granular. I
think it's I think it's important that these stories about
our legends that have unified us. To your point, when
he died, it was global. It was a global loss.
It wasn't a Los Angeles loss. Although living in the
city covering the story at the time, there was a
(32:03):
true darkness over the city. It felt eerily quiet. Yeah,
And every morning I'd get up and go to work
at Sports Center, and I was at La Live, which
is across the street from what I like to still
call Staples, but some people like to call it Crypto,
and so I the people dropping their memorials, Oh my god,
I had to be at work at four am or am.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
My god, people were pulled up in pork.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I was like, oh, and it felt very special because
it was the city that he grew up in and
we had watched him be a silly young guy on
the court to a real leader.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
That thing about him is you I know. For me,
it's like you grow up with people.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
We grew up with him.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
I feel like you know them.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yet I feel the same way about Serena. When we
did that, I felt like I I have grown up
with her and knew her. With the braids and with
people saying all things that I watched her push back
and I felt I really felt a different type.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Of connection with her. She's my She's my Kobe, like I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oh, really, I love her a lot too, though I
love her a lot. My last thought and then I'll
let you go. Isn't it interesting interesting that the people
that we admire most admire or and or like or
seem to be goats have such mystery to them. There's
so much mystery to them. There's mystery to Jordan's Serena, Kobe,
Tom Brady. I'll go down there with Tiger Woods, like
(33:22):
we don't know anything about them, but the fact that
what they show us and they give us that and
it's so intentional, it's.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Because it's it really does pour out onto whatever the court.
Serena shows you who she is. She is one herself
on the tennis, this ball and exactly I'm angry today,
you gotta know. Yeah, And Kobe, I think black mom,
but that was him saying, I'm this is who I
am right now, going to give it.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
All to you, Tiger, all of them.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And so when it's off the court, we're left our
own devices, those journalists to figure out.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
To figure it out and read it in between the lines.
Eric Johnson, Executive producer, Kobe The Making of a Legend
premiere's Saturday, January twenty fifth on CNN nine pm Eastern
Standard Time. Thank you so much, Eric, I appreciate you,
Thank you, thank you. Naked Sports written and executive produced
by me Kerry Champion, produced by Jock Vice Thomas sound
(34:19):
Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu Sayle Shabby.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast
network in iHeartMedia
Hey, everybody, welcome to Naked Sports. We are doing a
today's show about Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bean Bryant, many of
you may know Sunday was a fifth anniversary of Kobe
Bryant's death, and it still feels for me anyway, as
a Lakers fan, loud and proud with my Lakers shirt on,
it still feels to me very real. It feels as
(00:25):
if it's not something that I have been able to
come to terms with. And also it also just reminds
me that life is just so precious. And so there
is a docuseries that came out this weekend Saturday, January
twenty fifth, and it is about the making of a legend,
Kobe Bean Bryant, and it gives us the before and
(00:46):
after of Kobe. It gives us Kobe as a kid
in Italy. It gives us Kobe before he went to
the league, and then it gives us Kobe, you know,
while he's in the league and trying to figure it out.
And like any hero, there are so many different sides
to Kobe that some people love and some people don't.
Is that perfect intersection of being a hero but also
(01:08):
being someone that can be villainized at the same time,
every one of our heroes lives in that dichotomy of
where they are loved and hated. And it also talks
about Colorado, and I do believe to me, approaching what
did or did not happen in Colorado has been arguably
the hardest story to reconcile about Kobe Bryant as one
(01:32):
of his biggest fans, I also believe there are people
who are confused by that as well. But I'm gonna
say the ugly part out loud. The truth of it
is is that winning solves all and we're watching it
in real time in life, but with all of our
heroes and our famous people. But I'm really excited about
the stock You series because I think it's time to
(01:53):
honor him in many other ways ways that allow us.
If you are a fan of sport, if you are
a fan of the Lakers, if you're a fan of
Kobe Bryant, it allows us to get some answers to
such a gray figure. And by gray, I mean he
lived in the middle. We only knew what we needed
to know. He didn't tell us much about who he was.
(02:15):
I really don't know much about his family life, or
how he grew up. I don't really know much about
his relationships with the people he played with, and as
a fan, I think I want all of those answers.
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
(02:38):
the common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
To get to for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records,
Kayman Clark broke the all time single game assist record.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
To the polls where history is written, and now we
have Kamala Harrison, it feels more like women are sort
of taken what they've always deserved, as opposed to waiting
on somebody to give them what they deserve.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Gary Champion.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
My name is Eric Johnson.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I am executive producer for CNN original series. I'm also
EP of some of our singular hours, Blindsided on her Terms,
Serena Williams taking on Taylor Swift. We did Call Me Country,
which is a Beyonce doc that we did last year,
and then we did the Making of Martha Stewart last January,
(03:58):
and this year the making of a Legend with That's
about Kobe.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Right, Kobe believed in himself even at the youngest possible age.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I have decided to skip college and take my talent
to the NBA.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Huge, global to people who may never even know what
a basketball looks like.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Felt this present?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
How did this all come about?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
So I'm a huge basketball fan, Knicks fan.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Admittedly, I'm sorry, I'm not Tokyo Tokyo Takyoh Carrie, but.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I'll make a huge basketball fan. I love basketball.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I love this game that's built around putting a ball
in a hoop, and that's the whole game it's about.
It's just simple, and it has evolved into something that
is artful, that is political, that gets people angry, that
makes people smile, makes people laugh, makes people cry, and
(05:00):
and has done all those things with me, and after
Kobe died tragically five years ago, you know, he was
one of my favorite players. Even though he tormented my knicks,
he was one of my favorite players, just like the
heart that he poured into this game that again is
about just simple putting a ball into a basket. And
(05:21):
so something that struck me after he died and when
we were searching for what our next you know, Bio
was going to be from my team, something that struck
me was that I really didn't feel that people after
he passed really knew why.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
His story connected with them.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
His death brought a lot of people together in a
way that was surprising to me. I was surprised by
the amount of just the global love that people had
on this individual at that moment, and I was really
just taken by it. But I didn't feel that people
(06:03):
really connected with this idea that he had a family,
he had something.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Beyond just him on the court.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And when we were putting this and we were developing this,
I wanted to know more about his parents, his relationships
off the court. We wanted to know. I knew that
he grew up in Italy and with his dead and.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, that part especially is very vague, like, yeah, grew
up in Italy.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
That was the life.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
You spoke a Tai and we knew that, But you're right.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
You didn't really know why that was important, how it
framed him.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I knew about when we get into Colorado and all
of that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
When the alleged assault that happened, I knew enough about it,
but I didn't really think that deeply into it. And
so when we were building this, you know, I was
curious about what things made.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
This man the man that he was, and we.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Started doing a lot of research. We sent the team
out out to Europe, to Italy for a couple of
weeks to talk to his friends out.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
There, you know, and let me I hate to do
this right here, but when you say you sent the
team out to Italy and you have to talk to
his friends and family, never once did you think, let
me call it the biggest Kobe fan. I know she
deserves some positive she deserves to be in Italy journo.
We had just given so much love and all of
the bone.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
That I did not go on that trip either.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Okay, okay, fine, let me just move on from that. Okay, No,
this sounds wonderful. I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, So we sent a team there just to get
to know or to speak to people that grew up
with him there correct and could tell us his story
in fluent Italian. There we got all of this amazing
footage that we've never seen of Kobe and his family
living there.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
And then when.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
We started doing our research and our archival search for
video here in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia. My whole family's from Philly.
I love Philadelphia. It was interesting to understand how that
city shaped him.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
And then Los Angeles, of course, like there's no place
that loves Kobe more than that city. And so you
have this this guy that was built by a lot
more than just the stuff that he did on the court,
and that was something that we were just eager to
get into.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
When I was looking at these screeners, there are three
because it's this is a three part docuseriies. So you're welcome,
ladies and gentlemen who loves sports and Kobe. What I
thought was really interesting was you were able in these
three episodes to talk about very almost segmented parts of
his life that were very important to what we remember.
(08:42):
One and who he was, how Kobe was, you know,
Kobe before and after Colorado, Kobe before and after the
Achilles to tear, Kobe before and after Shock. Quite frankly,
these he had lives, and they were all and it
could have been happening simultaneously. But at the end of
the day, Kope was. He connected with so many different
(09:03):
I think with me for different reasons than he would
connect with you. I like that he didn't like to
talk to people. I like that he was nobody's friend.
I like that he was really clear that I can't
pass you the ball because you don't work hard enough
in practice, so I can't trust you to me. There
was no emotion to the way in which he played,
unless it was about this singular thing, which was winning. Now.
(09:26):
When he came to Los Angeles, I remember like it
was yesterday. Talk to me about what people will learn
about a kid coming straight from high school, because the
social equity is different when you come to a team
like the Los Angeles Lakers and you're eighteen years old
and you're just shooting shots randomly. What were you able
to discover about his personality when he left high school
(09:47):
and went to Los Angeles to play professional sports. One
of a few.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Man confidence is not even the word it is.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I kept thinking back and when we were doing this,
when we were looking at it him as a teenager
going to the NBA, I'm thinking about myself. You try to,
you know, empathize and as much as you can.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I am not I'm a terrible basketball player.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
But I'm thinking about you were entering not a workforce,
You're entering a profession. So that's one part of it.
It's a physical profession against people that are that you idolize,
and so you're as a kid and yet he was
bigger than most kids his ageality, you're entering this place
and it's a serious sport. They want to jack you up,
(10:32):
and he did not enter that sport soft.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, he entered thinking I'm better than you.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I'm not going to do all of that rookie stuff
that you make the rookies carry this and then I'm
not going to do any of it.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Because I'm not. Because I'm not, and I'm not going
to apologize.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
And because I don't. I shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I shouldn't, And it's it is, I don't know how
you have that.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That's something. And Chase McGrady says, this team when I
sat that with him. He said, I not everybody has that, correct,
you know, that's something you're born with. Is this super
confidence his parents, And this is something that I was
very much eager to kind of explore as much as
(11:16):
we could. His father was a basketball player. His mother
taught him great discipline and competitiveness, and he took that
from them and their belief.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
They had a lot of belief in him.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
When he went off to the NBA, they were right
there and said, oh, yeah, he can do it.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
And I just that's mind boggling.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's mind boggling because usually your parents are trying to
hold you back. But the way he even carried himself,
there's an image there's a clip that you use that
we've seen over before, but when he was leaving high
school and he just stood at the podium and he
was just looking around like you're welcome, it felt very presidential. Yeah,
shades on his head. He was like, let me bless
you all with this information that I'm going to share.
(11:56):
I'm gonna go ahead and take my palettes, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
And I remember that the moment, and it's when do
you a high schooler?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And it's hard for people to see what he was then,
because he's so tall and he's in a suit.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
But like, this is an actual kid.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
That is going to correct Jordan correct and that is
out there saying he's.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Better correct and he was a kid.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
He's a kid, and if.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
He believed it or not, he believed it, you know
what I mean, Like.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
And so and also to go through that whole season
really not caring if people like you, which is something
we all, you know, we struggled now with imposter syndrome
and this and that and the other thing.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
And he's just like, yeah, I'm an impostor. I don't care.
And it's it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I'm like, did I say that? Warngway do such and such?
Like Melway's like, I don't know what happened. Amnesia. The
greats have amnesia. It's the saying in sports, the greats
have amnesia. They're able to forget and focus on what
happens in life. But I mean that applies to life.
But the people who don't ruminate over things and just
do what they know their instinct tells him to do,
whether that be truly authentic or pa really well or
(13:01):
just really special. And he was one of those special guys.
I think a lot of that had to do he
let me, let me put him on the couch. I
think a lot of that had to do too with
his relationship with his parents. As we know, he didn't
have one, and that is a really hard thing to understand.
That wound is tough, no matter how how comfortable he was.
(13:21):
How do you think what were you able to discover
without obviously giving everything away, but what were you able
to discover in this docu series about that, about that
relationship that went unrepaired even until his death.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, I mean I think that it's complicated, and I'm
I'm in listen. I'm in no position to judge anybody's
relationship with their family member, especially when you're very young
and you start making money and your parents are living
with you. I can imagine, and you're Kobe're you're the
best at something at your level, and you're trying to
(13:56):
grapple with being the best and also being a man
and also so trying to you know, he would still
we were told he was still like taking the trash
out for his folks and stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
It was like a real they were a real unit.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I think there are things that we don't know, and
we won't know until those groups decide to kind of
come out and talk about them in terms of what
really went on with their relationship on things that we
just didn't see.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But I do think, I like, I mean, I'm an idealist.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I like to believe that, you know, he's still carried
a lot of the lessons that they taught him on
and off the court. And when we it was really
fun to hear the interviews few as they are with
his mom and with his father. Yeah, that's yeah, you
can you can really hear him in that, you know,
(14:46):
and it you know, it's sad to think about how
their their relationship was fractured, but it's also you hope
that he was able to kind of carry on some
of the major lessons that they taught.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So when we come back explains how they decided to
approach the infamous Colorado rape accusations back in a moment.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant has been accused of
sexual assault. In the back of his mind, he was
thinking like that, in my family exam exam, like that.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
How would you describe Colorado? How would you describe the
rape out allegations Kobe before and Kobe after, and how
the world viewed him.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So let's let's take a step back, because I the
Colorado part of it. I want to.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Touch on.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
How we used it and why I felt, as the
executive producer, that it was important for us to talk
about this, and that is.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
When you start to look at his life.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And when I started to look at the actual transcripts
and dig into it, I had misremembered a lot from
my time when when that story happened.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
There were just things in my brain.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I had remembered that whole a situation much differently than
when I actually started to read what happened.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
And I was I was struck by that.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And it's conflicting because you have your thoughts about this
person and how they died and how you remember them
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
What were you conflicted by?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I don't think I knew the coverage as well as
I thought I knew it in terms of what the
young lady had said happened. I certainly don't remember reading
that apology letter, which is remarkable from Kobe.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You don't remember the letter.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I don't remember at that time. There were just things
that like I personally was not. I remembered the story differently, okay,
And so for me it was important to see how
he was before that, like you mentioned, then after.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
How was he before? In your eyes?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
In my eyes, he.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Was choose my words carefully, sure, yeah, podcasts yeah yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
In my in my brain, I felt like there was
a vulnerability after the fact, there was I think the
Mamba mentality after he after that whole episode, how he
kind of drilled down and was able to channel his
feelings someplace in a way that I don't think he
(17:39):
really was before. Something that I was just really saying,
I'm saying after because beforehand the thing.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That I'm alway, there's and there's eight Kobe exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
But I think the thing that I was very struck
struck by when reading the transcript is just how open
he was with the officers who spoke to Yeah, and
I was struck by that this man who you said
it he didn't talk to. He was very very private,
and in this moment when he's talking to telling people
what happened, he is open. He's vulnerable in that moment,
(18:15):
and I'm sure he probably looks at it much differently.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
It would look at it much differently after the fact.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
But I do feel like there was a change in him,
you know, as as there would have been. And I
think that any honest documentary about him has to has
to address in a serious way. You know what happened
in Colorado, where's that young lady's voice in all of this,
and how that story transformed his life. I was also
(18:44):
struck by the way the cultural culturally have, the way
the culture responded.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
He was on getting a Kid's Choice Award.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I believe it was like two weeks after this happened,
which is for him.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I understand the pr of the world we're in, but
it was just it was just it was what interesting
to be this.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Space of Wow, that's just wild hearing you say that,
because I really I don't look at it that way,
but I know I am so biased. And I also
think there is this because he's passed away, people almost
hesitate to talk about that because you don't want to
speak ill of those who are not here. Of course,
do you remember the gil do we incorporate and I
don't want to give anybody. Okay, So the Gail King
(19:27):
of it all when she right after Kobe's death death
she interviewed Lisa Leslie do you remember that? And she
pushed back and the question was fair. Her commentary, I
don't think was do you think Kobe? She questioned whether
or not he did what he was accused of in Colorado?
That's a fair question. That's just a question. Do you
(19:48):
think it? And then and then when Lisa was like no,
adamantly not, Gail's pushback was, how would you know? That's
just not fair? He wouldn't be that way around you.
Then he and I That's what threw everybody off sent
the question because I feel as a journalist the question
is on the record, which is why I mean, I
think it's inbounds, which is why I'm glad you incorporated it.
But I am I am a believer, especially being in
(20:10):
sports for the majority of my life, that winning solves all.
Oh you have to say the quiet part out loud.
Oh Yeah, I don't care who you are. I don't
care what you do. I don't care what crimes you commit.
Are you bringing me joy in my sports and my
personal life? Whatever joy you're bringing me. We absolve athletes
like there is no tomorrow, and we see that happen.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
We see him travel from the courtroom while a game
is playing, go on to the court and score a
buzzer beater. It is incredible, but it also speaks to
American culture, a culture it's not necessarily even sports or
Kobe relating to what you're saying, which is when you're
(20:51):
killing it, people willing, and so I do think that
that is worth I think that the discomfort that I
think we both have even talking about it now, it's
like it's awkward, and there's an awkward discomfort in talking
about it. But that's one of the reasons why I
was it. I want to make essentiain like I want
(21:13):
to make people uncomfortable, but I want to make sure
that the work we do, it's it makes people think
about how we But you can believe you can come
to the same conclusion and love him at the end
of it, and that is all you.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And that is me. But we should, we should, we
should talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I got to talk openly about what happened, and I
would encourage everybody to do their own research, search into.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
These transcripts available out there.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Everything we've reported in here is has been reported. The
audio you hear of Kobe talking about what happened. Those
are his words, and it's interesting to hear that, and
it was stuff that I just had not I kind
of had put it in an a vault for myself,
and so when we had the opportunity to dig deeper
(21:59):
into this story, you know, I wanted to make sure
we're giving an honest interpretation of someone's full life. But
I feel, I really do feel like it would have
been doing an injustice to him to ignore things, even
if they make us feel a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Well, that's the beauty right of what we do, to
look at the world in a way in which and
ask questions and force people to think. I remember, because
it's not I support the Lakers. I've been a diehard
Laker fan since I was a kid. I didn't have
a choice, and I remember when this was happening. I
was living in Florida. I was a local news reporter,
and then even when I moved to LA working in
Sports Center, and I would always talk about how Kobe's
(22:36):
my favorite player without fail. Whenever I did that, there
would be a women's rights group saying, how could you
support this type of person. They're very adamant that they
didn't like Kobe, and I said, this is one of
these things I cannot explain to you. And I was like,
this is one of these things that feels very hypocritical.
Considering how I try to speak for women. I have
(22:56):
been very adamant about standing up for talk abou different
athletes who have had criminal records for for abusing women.
And here I am in the in this intersection, knowing
that someone can say everything that I'm saying about ex athlete,
they could say about Kobe Bryant. And I was so
in defense of Kobe Bryant. And there was no rhyme
(23:18):
or reason outside of the fact that I am a
fan and fanatically in love with the Lakers. And it
felt so uncomfortable. But I had to make peace with
that as I wear my Kobe shirt. I had to
make peace with that. And I know that people are
upset with that. That intersection is a real intersection of life.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
That's everything.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, that's nuanced, yes, And I think that's something we
try to do really well in the original series at CNN.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
When you look at the stuff that.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
We have coming out this year, Luther, these are these
are nuances I'm waiting for Luthor. He's out it's it's
it's these are nuances.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Wait, Luther is out. When did when did it come
beyond Maxim February?
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Luther, all of them Okay, from skinny to big to
in betweens. Because you can't give me one, luthgive it
much like we're discussing Kobe and the Kobe's Oh.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
That what you're talking about, that awkward intersection. I have
been there, not only with this story, but with lots
of stories, and I think.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
That that's a good place.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
There's somebody wrong with being at that place, as long
as you're you're aware of it and you're asking those yourself,
those questions like he.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Just reveals who we are exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
And really that his story the reason I love stories
like his, like Serena's, these are to me the most
American stories. They're complicated, the criminal case will be dropped.
He had to take a good, hard look at himself
and decide who am I really.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
That's when Black Mombel was born.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Back in a moment, it's.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
One of the most remarkable stories in sports history.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
The last thing you think is someone's going to pass away.
The world actually stood still for a moment when you
we all know how the story ends in terms of
what happened with Kobe? How do you how do you
view his death? Because during that time, two things were happening,
(25:23):
the pandemic with the world shut down maybe a month
or and some change.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
It was right after because I remember I was like
March eleventh, I was like at work, which I would
not have been at at that band, but it was
like the last one of the last big gatherings. I
believe was that it was like a national morning, and
then the pandemic really started to pick up right after.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I believe, Yeah, you're right, Oh what will we What
will we learn about Kobe and GG and sadly the
other people who were in the helicopter that day? What
will we learn that we don't already know? How do
you talk about that?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I think what you learn and what I was struck
by is Kobe ended his career really at the top
as playing his greatest basketball as good. He scored like
sixty some odd points in his final game, and that
could easily have been.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
A chapter that kind of closed.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
But he he had this obsession with this idea of
being a storyteller, and I think when I first heard that,
I was like.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, what does that mean? You know?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
But he really was a story.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Dear basketball. That letter he put in the Players Tribune
was really beautiful.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
That's exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And really you see we get we have a whole
section and there's gonna be a digital extra that looks
into deer basketball and some of the other written works
that he did.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, this man loved to tell stories.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
He was a real lover and believer of women's sports
in a way that I think that people know but
they don't.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
He was ahead of the game, Like, really he was
ahead of the game. He was ahead of the game.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
And I think you.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
See you see a glimmer of what his life may
have been. And that's the part at the end of
the episode that I think is just wrenching, is because
you see him driving kind of towards this bigger life.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Oh we do is so sad. I cry all the time, surrible.
I'm not gonna cry on this interview. I promised myself,
I will ask you this. Do you feel like this
will provide I don't know a better insight to who
Kobe Bryan is. He was such an enigma. Players to
this day will say I remember Rick Fox saying Kobe.
(27:51):
We just want to We just want to know. You
need us because Kobe was very isolated, intentionally isolated, and
I think there are many reasons for that, but there
is such a mystery about who he was on and
off the court intentionally. It makes us want more. That's
why I feel like this docu series is so right
on time, obviously, but so important because we want to
(28:13):
know all we can know. We want to know everything.
If he could have done a last dance, you know,
in the way in which Jordan did Last Dance, it
would be just as big, it would be just as revolutionary,
it would be it would be really defining because no
one knew, and no one to this day can really
say definitely what his relationship was with his mother, what
his relationship was with his wife, what his relationship really
(28:34):
was with his teammates, if he really even really liked
all of them that he had. Why did he and
Jack really break up?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I have so many questions, big questions, and those documentaries
they will be out at some point. People will tell
each one of those stories differently. I want to know
everything that you want to know. For what we didn't hear,
we tried to give you from CNN and a look
(29:01):
at who this man was and these critical moments of
his life as a young person.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
At somebody going through one of.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
The biggest news stories that I was brought up with,
that you kind of look back and rescrutinize it and
scrutinize it again in a different way, and then somebody
who what was their life beyond basketball? That's what we
tried to do. We tried to bring and I think
we succeeded in giving people information in parts of his
(29:31):
life that perhaps they didn't know. It's important for me
that people see these athletes, these public figures and so on,
outside of their profession as much as we can, to
see them as fullsome lawed human beings, because that's what
(29:52):
life is. There's a lot in Kobe's life that you
could look at and be like, this makes me mad,
Why what are you you like this? Why didn't you
do X, Y and Z?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Ask those questions.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
You know you're not going to get answers to all
of them, but we hope to give him a little
just I learned so much about him in here that
I didn't know, and some of it had already been
out there, and we were able to kind of just
look back and for me, you know, like I'm on
TikTok Instagram reels. You go, you scroll up, you see
a Kobe trip, you know, little nuggative information or factoid
(30:27):
or a little inspirational thing.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like he's very and I was. It was nice to
see beyond just this way.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We want to remember him and just try to see
this guy that was a kid at one point throwing
rocks off his bicycle in the middle of that to
be the Italian country side.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
That's just it's just super cool.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I think he's amazing, and I think his family, his
parents deserve a lot of credit and worked really hard
to bring this guy where he was where he eventually,
and I think his wife has done an amazing job
securing and protecting his legacy beyond. And so I'm eager
(31:10):
to see these other works that will come out at
some point that delve into different parts of his life.
But I hope in the meantime people enjoy what we
what we offered them.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
It's perfect, it's great. Haven't you seen It's amazing. I'm
gonna say it. I haven't seen it. It's already amazing.
Anyone who loves Kobe is going to love.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
This and please when you are like, just text me.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I'm I'm on a time because twenty seven forty seven, Yeah,
get it.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
I get it. I was like, Okay, so then why
y'all do that?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, I needed a tight shot of No, it's going
to be amazing. I won't even be so granular. I
think it's I think it's important that these stories about
our legends that have unified us. To your point, when
he died, it was global. It was a global loss.
It wasn't a Los Angeles loss. Although living in the
city covering the story at the time, there was a
(32:03):
true darkness over the city. It felt eerily quiet. Yeah,
And every morning I'd get up and go to work
at Sports Center, and I was at La Live, which
is across the street from what I like to still
call Staples, but some people like to call it Crypto,
and so I the people dropping their memorials, Oh my god,
I had to be at work at four am or am.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
My god, people were pulled up in pork.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I was like, oh, and it felt very special because
it was the city that he grew up in and
we had watched him be a silly young guy on
the court to a real leader.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
That thing about him is you I know. For me,
it's like you grow up with people.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
We grew up with him.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
I feel like you know them.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yet I feel the same way about Serena. When we
did that, I felt like I I have grown up
with her and knew her. With the braids and with
people saying all things that I watched her push back
and I felt I really felt a different type.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Of connection with her. She's my She's my Kobe, like I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oh, really, I love her a lot too, though I
love her a lot. My last thought and then I'll
let you go. Isn't it interesting interesting that the people
that we admire most admire or and or like or
seem to be goats have such mystery to them. There's
so much mystery to them. There's mystery to Jordan's Serena, Kobe,
Tom Brady. I'll go down there with Tiger Woods, like
(33:22):
we don't know anything about them, but the fact that
what they show us and they give us that and
it's so intentional, it's.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Because it's it really does pour out onto whatever the court.
Serena shows you who she is. She is one herself
on the tennis, this ball and exactly I'm angry today,
you gotta know. Yeah, And Kobe, I think black mom,
but that was him saying, I'm this is who I
am right now, going to give it.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
All to you, Tiger, all of them.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And so when it's off the court, we're left our
own devices, those journalists to figure out.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
To figure it out and read it in between the lines.
Eric Johnson, Executive producer, Kobe The Making of a Legend
premiere's Saturday, January twenty fifth on CNN nine pm Eastern
Standard Time. Thank you so much, Eric, I appreciate you,
Thank you, thank you. Naked Sports written and executive produced
by me Kerry Champion, produced by Jock Vice Thomas sound
(34:19):
Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu Sayle Shabby.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast
network in iHeartMedia
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