When Fascism Comes for You

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native lamp Pod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership
with Recent Choice Media.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Home, y'all. This is episode counted forty seven of Native Lamppod,
where we give you our breakdown on all things politics
and culture. Please help me. Welcome our co hosts, my
co host Tiffany Cross and Angela Raie. What's up ladies,
Andrew and of course I'm manager Gillam. Thank you for
the introduction. Angel How y'all doing your respected places great?

Speaker 3 (00:35):
It's glooming right now in here. Yeah, I mean I'm
in Seattle. Is just gray. It's not rainy, it's just
gray right now. It's turning in the fall.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
You could have been here.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
I could not have been there. But I will see
you this weekend shortly. I will see you tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
That's it. That's it.

Speaker 5 (00:50):
But technically today for the podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Tomorrow mis today. Speaking of podcasts, Angela, what's on your
mind which you want to talk about today?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
I want to talk about a lot. I want to
talk about John F. Kelly, a different JFK who is
Donald Trump's former Department of Homeland Security secretary and his
former White House Chief of Staff saying that it turns
out he actually is a fascist.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Ah, thank you for mentioning that word, because today I
would love for us to dig into what the heck
gets fascism? What does it look like right now? Because
I think some of us, you know, have thrown the
term around and now we need to deepen into what
does it mean in the event that we actually have
to deal with a fascist president? And tiff, what's up?

Speaker 4 (01:34):
I want to talk about what's happening, and that is
Vice President Harris's town hall, former President Trump's interview with
Joe Rogan, and these early voting numbers. And I mean
my question that I have for you guys is does
anything make a difference at this point?

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, guess what we should get into your question on
you cool with kicking your question off first?

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Yes, I think if I know correctly, there is a
viewer who asked questions and that's right on topic.

Speaker 6 (02:01):
Let's here lamb pid Kelly Michelle again being greedy with
another question. So there's been a lot of chatter in
terms of the Harris campaign not investing enough into black media.
I know she has a lot of people to please,
but I guess the question is or the statement has

(02:24):
been that it's been less than one percent that she
has invested or they have invested into black media in
terms of marketing and advertising dollars. I know that she
is doing and making herculean effort in terms of reaching everyone. Charlemagne,
she's going on thought, she's doing everything they ask her

(02:44):
to do it. She says, Okay, but I guess the
question again is do you have any ideas on why
there aren't any marketing or advertising dollars spent on black
media platforms?

Speaker 4 (03:01):
All right, So I like this question because we've talked
about this a bit on the podcast before, and I'll
just revisit it for folks, because this is not if
you haven't worked in politics, This isn't common knowledge. So
I'm appreciative of the viewer who gets it, who understands.
So there's a difference between earned media and paid media,
and so Vice President Harris has certainly, to her point,

(03:21):
made a herculean effort with earned media. She did the
Breakfast or not the Breakfast Club, but she sat down
for the interview with Charlemagne, she did Roland Martin. She's
also done niche media markets and some smaller interviews. As
I just talked about in the intro, she's doing the
CNN town hall, which is not specific to black media,
but it certainly is relevant to what she's doing. She's

(03:45):
participating in that by the time you guys hear this,
it will have already taken place. But it took place
in Chester Township, Pennsylvania. And this, just so you guys know,
is the same night that she and Trump were supposed
to debate again. He of course declined, and so CNN
offered her this slot. I think that she has at
a later effort, her campaign has started to put money

(04:09):
in black media. I think it's a fair criticism. Might
be curious what my co hosts have to say. I
think it's a fair criticism of a lot of these campaigns.
And I'm not just gonna say that to Vice President
Harris because this goes down ballot for Senate racis where
are you spending your dollars? And I remember us talking
about this with them on the effort to go after
those nicky Haley voters early on. So it is a
fair question I think to ask, well, why aren't we

(04:30):
spending more dollars in black media? My honest question at
this point is what more can Vice President Harris do?
Even what more can Donald Trump do? I don't really
care about him, but I just think at this point
it is already written the outcome of this race. If
you are undecided, I don't believe that there are too

(04:51):
many undecided voters. There might be people deciding to vote.
But even if you're deciding to vote, what are you
basing your decision on? At this point, it just like, yes,
they should keep running and sprinting and doing everything. But
I don't know what's going to tilt the skills outside
of a GOTV game, Like how many people show up
in early voting and how many people show up on

(05:12):
election data cast ballots. That's the only thing that matters.
I can't pull over polls fifteen different poles a day.
I can't follow this, you know, rotten media narrative that
they just like to keep people tuned in. They get
something out of people feeling inks at this point, let's
just let's get it done. But Angela Andrew, I know
y'all may feel differently, so I'm curious if y'all think

(05:33):
at this point that anything can change.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Angela would love to hear in the media buying and
then I love the question TI if I get through
it after Angela.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I do think that given the fact that the Harris
campaign has raised over a billion dollars in three months,
that they certainly could spend a lot more money with
black lead organizations and with black lead media. I think
that one, you know, frankly, our good brother and friend
Lenard's interview with Kamala Harris and the fact that it

(06:04):
is now as of today, over thirty five billion social
impressions demonstrate that black facing content and hosts can actually
be a much better strategy for candidates and campaigns than.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
What we normally see.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
I remember complaining, frankly when Kamala Harris went to do
the interview with Dana Bash on CNN, wondering who she
was going to get because the folks who are going
to turn into that interview, for the most part, are
attracted to and interested into interested in political media.

Speaker 5 (06:37):
What is my point?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
I think that it has everything to do with where
you buy media and where.

Speaker 5 (06:42):
You participate in interviews.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Those things can peacefully coexist and they can go on
facing platforms. I'm saying black facing because some of black
facing some but I get it.

Speaker 5 (06:55):
Some of them are not.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Like Blackfast Club is on iHeart, but Black Effect is
a black owned network that iHeart is in a venture
with a joint venture with and so it makes sense
that Breakfast Club airing that interview, Breakfast Club being on
Black Effects and on iHeart, that actually can also build

(07:17):
well for our communities. We have to pay attention to
the fact that these seasons, and this is something that
some white folks won't tell you, but this is the
time of the year where people figure out ways to
ensure their long term longevity and viability through the campaign season.
They spend a lot of money. And it's not just

(07:39):
black folks who figure out their survival during a campaign season.
It is also white facing platforms. So that's a roundabout
way to say, I think they could do more. They
have done better in the final weeks leading up to
the election, but I do think they could do more,
and she should. I also think that she should go
on more conservative platforms, but I'll save that for another
part of the conference.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
Shure to hear.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Your thoughts on that. If you were to save it
five I'm curious for that.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
Andrew punted to me for media. I'll come back around.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
To that I wanted you for both. But I will say,
to your point, exclamation marking it, something like seventy to
eighty percent of these budgets are going to be spent
in media, advise commercials, eighty percent of a billion dollars.
And that's not to say what the outside groups are spending,
you know, particularly on the Trump side, how much money
they have. You know, they're just in the tang tif

(08:29):
to your question, I think right now, she's got to
try to win every day. I think every single day.
It is about getting out there, being everywhere all the time.
There's no such thing as oversaturation if you're Kamala Harrison,
Tim Wallas at this point, because we needed to be
at the forebrain of every single person. Not the ones

(08:50):
who follow political podcasts and media, not the ones who
are reading the paper every day, not those who are
sleepless because they are so anxious about the outcome of
this election, but regular folks who are not tuning in
at this level, who are getting their news largely through
somebody Snapchat and Instagram and Facebook feeds. They need to
know that an election is approaching, and we ought to

(09:11):
be trumpeting it like it's a second coming, right like
this thing is going down and you can vote right now.
I'm not certain that there is going to be much
shift in people's opinion around whether they're going to vote
for her or for Trump. I think you're right, things
are baked in. But what I do think is turnout
is going to be everything. So right now you'll see
a lot of great historic numbers being posted for early

(09:34):
voting and a lot of places that we're concerned about.
But then on election Day, Trump's fokes come out and
they wallop us. They wallop us on election day voting.
We can't be beat like that on election day, which
means every day we got to be voting. And then
on election day we've got to have mass turnof from
those people who weren't sure they were going to vote,
who have now determined that this election is important enough

(09:55):
they're showing up. And Angela, I wanted to hear you
on this one too. I just wanted you to address
the media thing because you had more expertise.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Uh, well, I don't know about that. You actually ran
a campaign and you know exactly how much how much
I say, how much money money, Yeah, I'm ad buyers
on the on the organizations and the corporations that got
the advice, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
You know, I think the other thing. I actually just
want to get into the fascism conversations.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
I'll demeir you want to save your thing, your conservative
your thoughts about her going on conservative platforms or fascism.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
No, I think I've been clear about my what I
think she should do it conservative labor.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
I just feel like this, I'll say something, Well, then
I'll say something I want to. Can we play the
Hassam Minaj sound bite? Because I think he encapsulates a
large voting block that I find that I find myself
very frustrated with. Let's roll that bite.

Speaker 7 (10:48):
I'm part of a generation of men that don't read
but listen to podcasts, terrifying.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
All my homies out here. Texting me alpha male means
just hard times make hard men, hard men, make good times.
Good times make soft men. A society will never value
its men until the wolves are at the door. I'm like, Sanjay,
you're a software engineer. Shut the fuck up. Why why

(11:19):
are you texting me like you're Julius Caesar? Whatever? Bro
Mamba mentality, Mamba mentality, Sanjay, you blew your knee out
playing pickleball, and you're quoting Kobe Bryant.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Now for all, I love Hassamnaj. I think he does
such a great job of like a smart, funny humor.
But this is kind of my challenge, and I think
this kind of shifts us into the fascism conversation because
there are these pockets of men who are seduced by fascism.
I know we'll talk about it from a global perspective,

(11:55):
Andrew and a historical perspective, but present day I'm having
challenge is because you know, I said this to Andrew
or earlier on the phone. It feels like sometimes ninety
percent of the people function off the intelligence of ten
percent of people. I say that because when I'm in
debates with people, it's okay if you don't know. I

(12:16):
don't know everything you know. I ask questions. When I
don't know, I'm curious. I go on a fact finding
mission when people have like I have personally sent Vice
President Harris's Platform for Black Men to several people. I
have personally had conversations with people outside of the black
community on policy. I've even talked about them a few
times on this show. And when the information is so

(12:38):
readily available to you. It's not going to be spoon
fed to you on fucking TikTok. It's not going to
be handed to you on a silver platter like you do.
Have to participate in this here, democracy and willful ignorance
is a privilege. It's like somehow like our our history
taught we didn't have that privilege, Like we had to
be informed, we had to know what we were talking

(12:58):
about to participate in this CYSM them. So I find
myself increasingly frustrated with people who are like, no, I
just choose to be ignorant. I know, I can I
have this stuff right in front of my face or
be honest about You're not ignorant, but you like the BS,
the racism, the xenophobia, the misogyny that Trump espouses because
you can't really he cannot beat her on policy. So

(13:20):
curious y'alls thoughts?

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, you know, first of all, I love the I
love the satire here, and sometimes it's the best way
out of serious conversation is to get people with a
laugh first, because I do think the implications of what
was said there, you know, listening to podcasts, I mean,
that's at least an exaggerated, an exaggerated form of hearing
somebody's opinions or thoughts and maybe news, depending upon who

(13:42):
you're hearing it from. But a lot of people are
getting it from even less than that, a couple of
seconds on a topic, arriving out of it as an expert. Right,
But I do think, what what what was being joked about?
This hyper masculinity that Trump is expecting from the podium
is also showing up in these closing ads. Right, there's

(14:03):
a reason why all over the country they got one line,
their one closing argument is about transgend gender folk. The
whole thing is boiled down to that. And you've got
folks out here, now, you know, a lot of men
and masculine men or maybe whatever that is. However you
show up running around here thinking they're gonna get infected
with with with with with with being you know, being

(14:28):
trans by looking or being near or if they're on
their kids teams or and the truth is is, like
we're talking about the smallest, smallest, smallest percentage of people
period in the world who are confronting unmitigated hate every
single day, having to convince themselves that they're worth they're
worth it to crawl out of bed and live right.
But this is who they're taking direct aim at, and

(14:48):
there's a reason for it. They want to make this
feel like it's so big, it's so everywhere, and your
kids are next, so that these folks. Yeah, so all
these folks end up, you know, arriving at the polls,
you know, hi for you know, hyped up on something
because Trump told them that they were about to turn trands.
I mean, I don't like, it doesn't even make sense,
but that's kind of what's happening here. I think it's unfortunate,

(15:11):
and I think it's lowbrow, and I think he's swinging
at emotion here, but emotion can be a very very
powerful motivator to voting.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I do want to say, y'all, I have a bone
to pick though with assimonage here, and that is.

Speaker 5 (15:24):
For the people who listen to podcasts, Please keep listening because.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Especially this so come you home.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
We do not pooh pooh those who want to listen
to podcasts, and hopefully you will read as well. Hopefully
our podcast inspires you to read and not to espouse
conspiracy theories. But you know, I may have one. I
may actually have one. I think you guys that this
whole idea of fascism is not something that just popped

(15:55):
up with Donald Trump. I believe as Harry Reid, God
rest his soul, said that Donald Trump is the Republican
Party's Frankenstein. And to that end, I don't know if
General Kelly agrees with us on the Frankenstein piece, but
I do think he agrees with us on fascism.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
So if we can roll that clip that we begin.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, do you what do you think?

Speaker 5 (16:17):
Do you think he's a fascist?

Speaker 8 (16:21):
Well, I'm looking at the definition of fascism. It's a
far right, authoritarian, ulter nationalist political ideology and movement characterized
by actoral leader, centralized hypocrisy, militarism, e flicible suppression of opposition,
belief in a natural social hierarchy. So certainly, in my experience,

(16:49):
those are the times he thinks we've worked better in
terms of running America. You know, again back to this
issue of U. You know, democracy is UH is complicated,
UH messy to operate. Probably the worst kind of government

(17:10):
there is except for all the other ones. I think
Churchill ones said.

Speaker 7 (17:14):
That, and and and again.

Speaker 8 (17:17):
Our constitution are founder is built in to the Constitution
into the way our government operates, built in a lot
of checks and balances, and was didn't design the governess
streamlined and whatnot. So but but certainly the former president
UH is in the far right area, certainly an authoritarian,

(17:47):
admires people who are dictators. He has said that, so
he certainly falls into the into the general definition of
of fascists for sure.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I wanted to play that for all of the reasons
that we know t if you were saying earlier on
our production call that we do a lot of preaching
to the choir, and so let's convene the church, because
I think that it's important for us to talk about
what fascism is. Of course, General Kelly in that clip
runs down a definition. I'm curious to know what you

(18:20):
all's definitions are and how this applies.

Speaker 5 (18:24):
Now. I definitely have some thoughts.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, I was just gonna say, if you wouldn't mind
introducing who John Kelly is.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Oh yeah, sorry, I did that at the top of
the show, but just to reiterate.

Speaker 5 (18:34):
John F. Kelly, not to be confused with John F.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Kennedy, was Donald Trump's former chief of staff from twenty
seventeen to twenty nineteen. Prior to serving in that role,
he served as the Homeland Security Secretary for a whopping
six months.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yeah. Yes, so I have a lot of challenges with
John Kelly there. I find him coming out at this
point interesting. So fascism, it comes from the rise of fascism.
Even the word fascist comes from an Italian word. It's
like it's fascist but spelled differently. It sounds like I'm

(19:12):
saying the same thing but spelled differently. And my thoughts,
I would say fascism is an idea of worshiping an
authority figure, and that authority figure invokes a cult like following,
and they enforced their ideology through methods of violence and manipulation.
Given that definition, I think that's what we are seeing.

(19:36):
You form tight knit communities. And of course the United
States remembers the rise of fascism in our recent history.
We can go back a lot further, but in our
recent history, Mussolini, this is how they invented the word fascism.
Mussolini carried these twin visions and became the Prime Minister
of Italy in nineteen twenty two, and he remains infamous

(19:58):
to this day for his work. So yeah, I agree,
with John Kelly. But I'll tell you, Angela, my challenge
with all these never trumpers and people who work for
the Trump administration and people who quit on January sixth,
You knew exactly who this man was on January fifth, fourth, third,
you know exactly who this man was in twenty sixteen,
twenty fifteen, we knew exactly who this man was in

(20:20):
the eighties. Our community knew exactly who this man was
in the nineteen seventies. So again I would go back
to my point of willful ignorance, because a part of
cultivating this culture of violence does come I think from
is nothing wrong. Obviously, we want people to continue to
listen to these podcasts. But I love angel that you said,
but please be sure to read as well. We are

(20:40):
not reporters. You know, we're giving our opinion here. You know,
there is a whole separate entity of news outlets, actual
news outlets who are digging into stories, they're reporting things
that happen, and we trust that you all can form
your own opinions. We come here in exchange in healthy
ideas and ideology about us. But even if somebody was saying, well,
this is where I get my news from I would

(21:01):
encourage you, like we the three of us that around
and say we want to talk about these three things.
It's a lot more happening. So I think fascism rises
in ignorance. Well, the more informed populations are, the less
likely popular popular populism is to rise. But Andrew, I
want to hear because I know you want to talk
about Pinoche. I definitely wanted to.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
I mean, I guess for me the reason why this
is really resonant or important is we hear the term
fascism and fascism thrown out a lot, and I think
people sort of adopt it as maybe just a political insult,
but it's not just a trading of barbes between people.
You're a fascist and you're a socialist and you're there's
real meaning, there's real thought, there's a real ideology that

(21:44):
informs this. Tiffany, you were just saying, how we knew
who he was, We knew who he was, we knew
who he was. That's right. But now he knows who
we are. He knows that you can't put a giant,
you can't put a general Kelly back in his cabinet.
He knows the folks who went in under the intention
that they could maybe guide the horse. Well, now this

(22:05):
horse is buck He's not to be guided by anybody.
He knows who his political foes are on the left
and the right and so on and so forth, so
he's not bringing them in and all. That's why I
think the urgency of this when I hear Liz Cheney
and also Kamala Harrison last night, or President Obama and
so many other surrogates come out, this man unguarded, unchecked,

(22:28):
with a Supreme Court that looks pretty much prepared to represtent,
whatever he does is going to be out of control,
out of control, and so the word, I guess fascism
takes on new meaning for all of us. And you know,
if we view it through this aspect, one definition that
I sort of adopted is, you know, and I think
many experts and mass political movement study now agree that

(22:53):
fascism emphasizes nationalism, militarism, and the supremacy of a nation
for an individual, with the exception of the fact that
it promotes a cult to personality. Fascist regimes cultivate images
of their leaders as great figures to be loved and admired.
I think we see and we hear this all the
time with with with interviews coming directly from Trump. You know,

(23:17):
Trump rallies. This model of government stands in contrast to
liberal democracies. That's what we hold ourselves up as today
and as the Framers put it, if we could keep it,
liberal democracies supports individual rights, competitive elections, and political dissent.
That's where we are today, where we appreciate those factors.

(23:39):
But fascist regimes are revolutionary and nature. They advocate the
overthrow of existing governments and persecution of their political enemies.
These regimes are highly conservative in their championing of traditional values,
and although fascist leaders typically claim to support every man,

(24:00):
the everyday person, their regimes often align with powerful business
and truest. Does any of this resonate with the folks
on the listening end of this when you see Elon
Musk going into his pocket prepared to spend a million
dollars a day and what I believe is an illegal scheme,
But either way, a million dollars a day and then
writing checks three times seventy five million dollars a pop

(24:21):
for true?

Speaker 4 (24:22):
Is that legal? Even now? I don't know that anybody
go away in But because Angela worked on Angela. I
will tell y'all is super aware and contest of compliance.
So when I heard that, I'm like, I don't even
know that's that's least in it.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
Right to the Department of Justice.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Right to the Department Justice, Like there's you cannot buy
or persuade people to vote a certain way. And even
if you're saying it's you know, you're encouraging registration. We
know what he's doing based on even how he's shifting
the algorithm on Twitter. Sure, Elon Musk is a part
of what happens in a fascist society. But I think
one of the most telling things that John Kelly said

(25:03):
in that interview was centralized hypocrisy. Centralized hypocrisy. It is
not the unfolding of fascism now. It was the unfolding
of fascism.

Speaker 9 (25:14):
Then.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
We saw fascism unfolding when he questioned Barack Obama's first
certificate and where he was born. Right, We were a
fascist society when they came out with a concept of
alternative facts.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
It was a fascist society.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
When this man, this white man, because this is pertinent
to the point, this white man could have three baby mothers,
could go bankrupt. God knows how many times could have
a loan from his father and still fumble the bag
could get be indicted ninety one times reduced to eighty
eight times. The judge who he appointed and was Senate

(25:53):
confirmed throughout the case.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Now she's being considered for Attorney general.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
It was fascism when Donald Trump new classified ad runs
and it says wanted yes men only.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
That is fascism.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
It's fascism when it is religious nationalism, and the Christian
Rights says the only candidate of choice is Donald Trump
because he espouses Christian principles, and they turn a blind
eye to every bit of violence. On January sixth, it
was fascism when it was about ethnic nationalism and making
America great again, and they harken back to a time

(26:27):
that where black people were harmed the greatest. We have
a major problem on our hand, and it is that hands,
and it is that fascism began long ago, and folks
are just realizing what it means.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
The fascism began long ago, even before this trumpet. I
mean fascism came to the United States on the hills
of Mussolini in the nineteen thirties. It was so bad
here that even the Aco you had to come out,
even though students, the history, you guys are rid of
brown shirts, the white hit the yellow shirts, and to
the point when they ran out of shorts and then
it was like the black Shorts group. But fascism has
penetrated American society for almost a century. So this has

(27:00):
been rising slowly over the years. That's why I say
when we black folks of all people, because we've been
on the receiving end of it, know how to view it.
And the way it was treated even then in the
nineteen thirties was like a joke like Mussolini supporters, because
it wasn't our government. Mussolini supporters are kind of like
an inconvenience. And it got more and more intense and
eventually became more violent. There's been a consistent rise of

(27:23):
fascism in this country.

Speaker 7 (27:24):
Well.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
The only exception I would take with its existence here
in America is that it has not yet to this point,
it had not yet taken over the whole of institutions
at different levels of our society. There have been able
to be checks and balances in the stages of fascism.
I would agree that it has been long in the making.

(27:45):
And I'll just just stay real quick with the five
stages of fascism. According to political science. Researchers say, and
one is emerging out of disillusionment. And we could all
give examples to this. Number two established legitimacy as a
political party. Third, gaining power via right wing partnerships. Fourth

(28:09):
using power to dominate institutions. This is the stage I
think we would be at in upon a second Trump administration.
In fifth implementing radical reforms. And these are reforms that,
over time take take away civil liberties, take away civil rights,
take away chance, take it, take again all the all

(28:29):
of the fomenting that we've seen and that we're experiencing
right now. It almost feels like it doesn't happen overnight.
But y'all don't pay attention to the signs. We we
oftentimes don't pay attention to the signs as they are
right here dangling in front of us, until all of
a sudden we wake up. And then and then you know,
it feels like the world has you know, it feels

(28:51):
like the world has ended.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think we're well in it, and I hear your
point that it's not. We're not all the way there
or it's it's right in front of us. But I
would argue that there are some institutions that have already
been corrupted, including the Supreme Court, which we've talked about
on the show, including the House of Representatives that could
not select a speaker because of it. Like, I think
that we really I think that we really cannot get

(29:15):
away from that. I think the other thing that we
have to pay attention to, and this is why I
agree with you Tip that it was long before Trump,
but he became the poster child, the singular face of it,
the authoritarian ruler, the dictator rule, right like that. Before that,
it was the trifectas in state governments that Republicans were
long pushing now to be fair, In twenty twenty two,

(29:36):
there were seventeen states where Democrats had a trifecta, but
there were twenty two where Republicans had a trifecta, and
four more where there were super majorities veto proof majorities
in those states, those were by design and by with intention,
right they pursued having these full, full single party rules

(29:58):
on the state level that only helped Donald Trump. Some
of you at home may be saying, why, well, there's
such thing as a constitutional convention, and if they ever
want to amend the Constitution, they have to have two
thirds of us of the States agree with them to
change or to add an amendment to the Constitution. This
is by design, and it has been in play for

(30:19):
a really long time. I wouldn't say since the nineteen
twenties and thirties, but I would say it's been by
design for a long time.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
Since Rage, it has been no.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
What I'm saying, I like, we've seen shifts and then
we've seen it go back. I'm saying by design on
the Republican level, with the Koch brothers, with Alec, with
all of these things, at least since the nineteen eighties,
with Reagan, I will say.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
Thirty posts, a new deal, and the whole warrior is so, the.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Whole fascism came out of the time, the period between
World War I'm not confused about that.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
I'm saying that you're your friend. We're not saying you're confused.
I think you're making a point for the audience.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Andrew, Yeah, I am trying to make a point for
the audience, which is simply to say there is a
period under which fascism got its definition in an end
its examples, which were obviously first through Mussolini and then
through Hitler. But what I'm saying about the reason why
I don't want people to believe that we have survived
through this is that it gets we're talking about when

(31:15):
you look at the examples of fascism that is extreme,
uh in part in all parts of the world. And
we've seen it in South America, we've seen it in
are obviously Europe. But you're talking about militaries that then
become compliant to a to a to First a president
who then fit who legally through through liberal democracies, comes
into power. But then while they're in power, they change rules, laws, constitutions,

(31:39):
implementing documents, so on and so forth, so that they
extend the life of their term to forever until they die.
They then uh get rid of constitutions and civil liberties.
We then lose hold of our own personal rights. And
it's it's it will come in the blink of an eye, y'all.
Donald Trump has already told when you vote, you don't

(32:00):
have to worry about voting again. He's already said I
may just stay president, live there, right, stay there for life.
He's already told us, I'll be a dictator, but only
on day one. He's already said that the enemies are
enemies from within, and therefore I can, as the commander
in chief, compel the US military and the National Guard
to intervene against my domestic enemies. That's not what That's

(32:23):
not how democracies work. That is not how liberal democracies work.
And so I just what, Let's believe the man when
he says a thing that he's going to do. Let's
believe him. Because now no guardrails, and already one of
the institutions have fallen to him, the US Supreme Court
and thereby the Court's rule of law. It's all in

(32:47):
his pocket. So to me, the threat is the threat
is so huge. And I just think that for those
of us, I know, we're not preaching to the choir,
because you know, we're all in the choir. We're all
in this together. But we have to I think, use
the time between now an election day to move as
many people as we possibly can to the polls who

(33:08):
may not understand the strength of this threat, but know
that something's not right. I just think we have to.
This is the time that we've got to activate. When
you asked, Tiff, what can change? Only thing that can
change is the force and the strength by which we
all moved to move people to the polls.

Speaker 4 (33:22):
And to this, I think I think you Ally was
gonna say, what's gotta change right now is the break?
But I want to pick up on Angela's plan on
the other side, because I think Angela is one hundred
percent right. Is here is happening now, So what do
we do about that? So we'll pick that up on
the other side.

Speaker 10 (33:45):
Former President Obama was back out and invoke the potential
of sexism in his appeal to black men to support
the vice president. Was it a mistake for the former
president to say what he did? What was your That's
what we heard from former President Obama.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
You know, I think that it's wonderful that President Obama
is out hitting the trail for democracy, frankly, And what
I think is a mistake is to let white folks
escape their accountability that they must face for not showing
up to save democracy themselves. Like they want to get
mad at presidential candidates right when they don't wear a
flag lapel pin or they don't see you pledging allegiance

(34:25):
to the flag. That's what they want to get upset about. Now,
the face of patriotism to them looks like trying to
tear down the Capitol in a terrorist attack on January sixth,
twenty twenty one. So the responsibility of saving democracy should
be on the largest demographic in this country, that is
white men and white women. So I wanted to play

(34:45):
that for y'all, not because you aren't completely tired of
hearing my voices, and you can hear it right now,
but just because I think it's been fascinating to me
speaking of fascism the way this clip has been run. Now,
listening to it on the back in, I can understand.
I'm just trying to be fair. Listen, if they hear
things from all sides, Maybe because I referenced January sixth,

(35:08):
they thought I was calling for another insurrection. Maybe that's
what they were doing, but that's not happening, especially because
people who I love dearly, who are my professional family,
work on Capitol Hill. So certainly I'm not calling for
violence on Capitol Hill or anywhere else for that matter.

Speaker 5 (35:24):
But I'm fascinated to understand y'all.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
How since we did see it in together promoting our
Detroit Live show shout out to Atlanta. We will be
there with you all on Friday. How in the world
they got for my words, this church girl's words.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
On accountability? How that is violence?

Speaker 3 (35:47):
There have been and TIF made this point earlier on
our production call too. It's not reasonable people who are
making this point. But when I tell you, one Republican
tweeter posted it, and all of the Republican rags, all
of the papers, all of their blogs ran with the
exact same thing. Their discipline is on point. Y'all shout
up a slow clap for y'all's discipline.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
But you're wrong, and you know you're wrong.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
And so I just I wanted to just have a
conversation with y'all briefly as we get out of fascism,
to like go into accountability and what accountability looks like
to y'all, because it looks very different to me than
what has been espoused on these platforms, Like they know
that's not what I miss. So I want to hear
what y'all think accountability actually means.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Well, I mean, I obviously understood your point Angela about accountability.
I think accountability is the child of responsibility, and I
think we all have a responsibility to this here democracy.
I think you know this would happen every week on

(36:53):
my show, and Angela, you know, stranger to this every
time you're on TV. You know they clip it. Andrew,
for sure, you don't check a lot of things, but
I imagine if you check your social media Instagram, you'd be
tagged in a lot of these right wing things. So
it seems so big to us because we have ourselves
Google News Alert and we get it. But the truth
is this is a small sect of society. I think
the people left on Twitter at this point, Twitter is

(37:17):
not what it once was. So these right wing mag
these fringe outlets, it's a small group of people who
are trying to drum up this thing. It becomes real,
Angela because when you're saying accountability and someone takes that
a different way and they start attacking you personally, and
you start getting emails. I mean I've gotten letters to

(37:37):
my house before, I've gotten detailed to my website about
the detail on which ways they would rape me or
what they would do to family members. And so you
consume all these words and it's like, I, you know,
I maybe it's a fringe outlet of people. Maybe it's
only five thousand people who read this, but the impact
of that is very real. That is fascism. That is

(37:58):
how fascism is one hundred percent right here, and that's
how it becomes violent. Reasonable people understood exactly even if
they disagreed, Even if there were white people who said, well,
I don't know about that, they could disagree. Reasonab people
understood your point. Responsibility, accountability, like you all are willing
to throw it all away to vote for this man.

(38:19):
Don't show us no more sound bites of black men.
Don't be in no more round tables of black men
talking about that they don't represent anybody, They don't represent
a large enough constituency because most black men are supporting
Vice President Harris. Angelo's point was talk to conservative white
people about how they're going to vote, because they're the
ones who voted overwhelmed across all socio economic background. They

(38:41):
voted overwhelmingly for him in twenty sixteen and again in
twenty twenty, and they appear to be poised to do
that again. So I understood what you were saying, Angela,
And I will tell you I was in the fire
one time, and Angela's been in the fire. A lot,
and we are two different people people. They've literally had
a headline of like Tiffany Cross said this blah blah blah,

(39:03):
and it was Angela's picture on the cover of it.
And so then I started getting tags easy like Tiffany said,
we got a whole white people kind of I'm like,
that was Angela. I agree, I echoed my sister, but
was not me. But I understood what you were saying.
And I'm also just sorry that you have to go
through that, because I know what that's like. I know
you frustrating.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
I really brought this up as an example, and what's
hoping we could have a broader conversation about accountability period,
because I think that that is a word that does
mean something very different to some of these white folks.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
I'm not talking about even the French.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
I think when they hear accountability, just like when they
hear power sharing power with black people, sharing power people
of color is a terrifying concept to them because of
how they've abused it historically. Accountability one and the same
facing accountability to a slaveholder was whipping your slaves, right,
That's not what accountability means to me, Andrew.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
I want to hear what you were say about accountability.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Why I was just say your words were clear. You
said the responsibility for saving democracy is to march themselves
to the polls. I don't know what was violent about that.
I don't know what was calling for violence about that.
I thought it was a true statement that quite frankly,
if white men and white women were to give us

(40:21):
the majority, give liberal democracy, give common sense, give us
right the majority of their votes, we all would be
over all would be done settled. But I think as
we see and said we've all said in different ways
on this show, different voters come to the polls with
different motivations, and if there, if they are where they are,

(40:43):
they're there for a reason. They have decided to prioritize
something else over what we believe is is the priority,
which is small d democracy and all the other things
that we care about. And they've decided that maybe what
is in their best interests is a white nationalist fascist
as president who will protect their part of the earth.

(41:06):
And I think that's unfortunate and shortsighted, and just like
Rome never thought it would fall, you know, a great Britain,
once the superpower of the globe, thought it would never
fall in its empire, Russia and its empire. Empires do fall, Yeah,
and they And again it's you know, we don't think

(41:26):
it happens overnight, but in a blink of an eye
we look up.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
But I think that's the point angels making. It does
not happen overnight, like we are crumbling now, We've been
crumbling for centuries. I wanted to hear more about what
you were saying, Angela about because I think that's such
a key point and feeds to Andrew's point about fascism.
The point that you're making why white people are afraid
of that word accountability and you were creating a wrinkle

(41:53):
in time between that and enslavement and that and oppression
and how white people have used power. I would love
to make that point so it could be my own,
but I want you to finish. I want you to
finish what you were saying, because I think that's such
a key point.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, I just I think that I see power differently, right,
Like I was raising the house with an activist who
taught us about the Rainbow Coalition. I'll like Reverend Jackson
and the fact that if we gain power and if
we gain access, then we are gaining access for everyone.
That's the point that our good friend Latasha Brown is
always making when I'm talking about accountability. It is in

(42:27):
the tradition of the Black Church, accountability means you repent,
you confess, you repent, you turn from your wicked ways,
and you go in another direction. Right Like, to me,
that isn't about being chastised, and it certainly isn't about violence.
I don't like to kill spiders. I like we try
to pick them up in knapkins and throw them outside. Now,
if it jump out the napkins, spider me and you

(42:48):
have a problem.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
But other than that, I really don't believe. I don't
believe in violence. I don't want to be violent. I
grew up in a non violent tradition. Now I believe
in self defense, you know, But I just I don't know.
I think that ultimately, when they have to face the
music on why they are hearing things in this way,
it's because of their own experiences and their own ancestral

(43:13):
memory and what they're carrying in their DNA, and they
also have to face accountability for that. They got to
come to terms with what that is and why therapy
y'all go I believe in it.

Speaker 5 (43:23):
I approved this message.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
Also, like the pain that we carry from it, just
to acknowledge it. Because you're not saying none of us
are saying like every white person is bad, every white
person is doing something. But white people do benefit from
a system that oppresses us largely, and we have to
be careful not to equate classism and racism, you know,

(43:47):
because then I've been on panels with people were like,
I grew up poor and my family didn't have anything,
and I made it myself. It's like, yeah, you still
had certain benefits. Like we all, most of us grew
up poor in our community. Look at the world's gap.
Most of us came from nothing and built ourselves up.
Our hurdles that we had to scale looked a lot different.
The hurdles that we had to leap looked a lot different.

(44:09):
From there. There may be some commonality, but it still
looked different. Andrew, I'm curious because you keep saying like
in the blink of an eye, it happens. Do you
think we are at the line crossing, like we have
crossed the line into fascist.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
I think I think this is the election that will
determine that. I don't disagree with you that we've had again,
if there's stages to this thing, if this thing happens,
and I think the assault on facts was the beginning
of it. The fact that we had a whole administration
that tried to convince us that they were you were

(44:44):
entitled to your own set of facts, that there's no
common anything, there's no common truth, there's no common right,
there's no common understand there's none of that. Dismiss with
all of that. And when you dismiss, when you suspend
with a free press and an arbiter of truth and
non truth, and you get to be that for yourselves.
Hold up everybody, because now you're telling me to go

(45:06):
check a source. Why is that source the source to check?
Why isn't mine the right source? Why isn't Fox News Bible?
Why isn't Why isn't what I listened to and the
shows that I patronize, Why why isn't that the fact?
Why isn't that true? And so the getting rid of that,
and I think we are at that stage. I don't
think that they're shared belief between what's real and what

(45:27):
isn't the fact that Donald Trump went out and told
people that FEMA was only for a certain group of people,
and if you made this much in the government was
taking your houses and all that I mean just flat
out lies. But guess what those lies took flight amongst
a group of people. The next thing I just wanted
to say is on this point of Angela mentioned Reverend
Jackson in the political ideology that helped to shape her

(45:49):
own friend Man right. I think we have to acknowledge
that there are other models and examples of how you
deal with power, what you do to get it, and
how you keep it, other models that have been I
think the majoritarian belief since the beginning of time, which
is power is a limited quality, is of limited supply,

(46:10):
and that it must be harbored and held and kept
to me. And if it's shared with anybody, that's sharing
means the loss of mind. So it's a zero sum game.
Whereas many of us were brought into believed in a
tradition that power is infinite, there is no limit to it.
In fact, the more the more you give it, the
more you get. Have you ever empowered somebody who you

(46:31):
work with? Have you ever empowered an intern and said
why don't you go do this? They don't they use
that as a responsibility to grow in an example. But
they're still looking to you as a leader. You haven't
lost anything. So but if you believe that if you
share power, and I think this is true of many
of the folks who are bought in the brought up

(46:53):
in the eurocentric a line of thinking of what power
is is that it's limited and I've got to cheap
it where all my mind you will, you will strip
my fingers from it. Versus let's be ubiquitous with it. Everybody,
get some.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
You know one thing that we should do.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
We know that part of what's happened with fascism and
the teflon down is that most of what is thrown
at him doesn't stick, including eighty eight plus felony indictments.
I would say, though that get got Giuliani. That was
not his story, and so he is now having to
face accountability for what he's done and is not a

(47:32):
violent sense of accountability. But child, did he get God
for all of his resources? Let's roll the clip of
the woman who.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Oh, can we sorry? Can we play what Juliani said first? Okay,
if you don't mind, because I want them to hear
exactly he should be accountable tip.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
I was like, that's a great idea.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Let's take take this basics of hooked on phonics class
to the clip.

Speaker 11 (47:57):
Of Ruby Freeman and Shae Freeman Laws and one other
gentleman quite obviously surreptitiously passing around us B ports as
if they are vials of heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's.

Speaker 7 (48:11):
Obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor they
are engaged in surreptitious illegal activity again that day and
after a week ago, and they're still walking around Georgia.
Line should have been they should have been should have
been questioned already. There are places of work, their homes

(48:31):
should have been searched for evidence of ballots, for evidence
of us V ports, for evidence.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Of voter fraud.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Before we get to this clip of Ruby Freeman, I
just want to remind you all that that man who
tried to compare taking USB hard drives to vials of
cocaine is also the man that has been disbarred over
these false election claims.

Speaker 5 (48:56):
That he's associated with the.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
And has been made to pay over one hundred and
forty eight million dollars in damages for destroying these women's lives.
He is also being charged with a felony related to
trying to get falsified documents related to Donald Trump's election.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
Results in Arizona.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
So Giuliani is, he's got some problems on his hands,
but let's see how he's taking these problems to the
wrong one and he found out with accountability.

Speaker 9 (49:30):
For now, I want people to understand this money will
never solve all of my problems. I can never move
back into the house that I called home. I will
always have to be careful about where I go and

(49:52):
who I choose to share my name with. I miss
my home, I miss my neighbor, and I miss my name.
I've heard some of you. Don't be sad for me.
Don't waste your time being angry at those who did

(50:16):
this to me and my daughter. We are more than conquerors.
Pray for us as we continue to fight the good
fight of faith.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
When we say that democracy is built on the backs
of black people, particularly black women, Ruby Freeman is the
type of black women who has led the charge historically
and for many centuries, preserving a democracy that many times
did not even support or look out for. Her and

(50:48):
Rudolph William Louis Giuliani is the poster child of what
it looks like when white supremacy intersects with democracy and
believes that democracy is only for the few. That is fascism,
if nothing else. This man tried to file for bankruptcy
the day after the judgment, the defamation suit judgment, where

(51:10):
he would have had to fork over the cash to
pay these women for the lies that he told about them,
for the death threats they then faced, and for ruining
their reputations and their ability to further uphold elections and
the processes that they have spent their lives protecting for us.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
That's all I got to say about.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Well, black women are disproportionately lesson workers in Georgia, so
Missus Freeman and Missus Freeman mass This wasn't the clip
that we played, but there she was defiant. There, you
know she had seen some level of justice. But I
just want to remind people that on during the January
sixth hearing where she actually testified, she was broken. I mean,

(51:50):
she was tearful as she recounted what she had gone through.
And she's known as Lady Ruby, and she asked, do
you know what it's like to have the president of
the United States and his kind make you a target
of them. You Also, we didn't hear from Shae Mass,
her daughter, but Shae Moss was saying, I'm my mother's

(52:11):
only child. I have a child, my grandmother's only grandchild.
And they talked about not being able to leave and
people confronting them. Shay Moss phone kept bringing over and
over and over and over because he was thocks they
couldn't go out together like they were the recipients of
all types of threats. So I'm happy to see her

(52:32):
like upbeat and getting something. But I have to say
I remember watching their testimony in real time. I mean
it was gripping. It was gripping to see these two
black women face a congressional hearing and detail for the
United States government what they had gone through. And they
both cried through their testimony. That is the result of fascism,

(52:54):
That is the result of violence. And those are the
people for everyone who was conflicted about how I don't
believe y'all really exists. But if there are people out
there who still trying to decide between Trump and Vice President,
here is he empowered people to displace these two black
women who are bigger patriots than you.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, and you know Tiffany overcoming and coming through trauma.
One day can be those teary I can't put a
word or a sentence together, and the next day can
be I can do this. This is strength. Thank you
Lord for you know, bathing me in the good sense
and my health and my strength. And then the next
day fall right back into that place when you think

(53:37):
about the neighborhood you can no longer live in, or
the alias name that you go by because you're terrified
if they hear your real name, what might meet you
on the other side of those words. She was scared
to order food, that's right.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
She couldn't because she didn't want to give her name.
He couldn't even order food.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
So that and they will live with that, as she said,
no matter the amount of money they get, that that's
staying they'll live with forever. Why because alternative facts have
convinced the whole half of the country to a narrative
that they'll never disbelieve. And they'll always look at these
women as as as to who got something undeserving, something
they didn't deserve for being black. Probably that's what they

(54:15):
trumpet up in their minds. To be. But this is
another reason why I don't think we can. We can.
You don't give power, You don't give more power to
peep to a person like Donald Trump and Juliani. Who
who does with power what they did to these two
women and and countless others who we can't name, right,
and I loved, In fact, I love to see the
Central Park five file suit uh recently against Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Sorry, not that that's the same thing, but they did
too on the the cease and desist for Yeah, have
the right to use somebody's words and twist them? How
do you feel like you have the right to say
that somebody cheated when they didn't on an election? How
do you feel like you have the right to accuse
these young people who have been exonerated of rape and

(55:02):
you still out here like what is wrong with you?

Speaker 4 (55:05):
I have to tell you, Angela, that ad is playing
in Atlanta on repeat to back to back to back,
and it's clear who they're targeting. I've only read it.
I didn't go back and watch. How were his words
taken out of context? So I've only read it and
in the context, you only read the quote, But what
exactly was he saying?

Speaker 7 (55:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (55:24):
I think, well, I know that he's what he said
repeatedly is the point was that he was watching the
ad and he knew that it was like her words
were taken out of context. This was Leonard and Enby talking.
They knew that her words were taken out of context.
And they were talking about how they were doing something
else and listening and were like, I want my to
Experimentney going to that. Like they were saying how effective

(55:45):
the ad was and problematic, like because they heard another
one and now they're using that splice. They spliced the
original ad with them responding to the ad, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
But Vice President here, so this is just so people
may not seeing that. But Vice President here was saying
that she supported gender affirming care. And I think it
wasn't they the way they cut it. I think they
were talking about prisons, but I think she was referencing
people in ice detention. I'm not being exact at I
don't I don't have to vange that, but it was
it was something to that extent, And so Charlemagne and

(56:18):
dj Envy were saying, if that is the case, they
did not want their No, that they didn't They.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Were saying that they knew that in that moment that
they had cut a small portion of her answer in
an interview and it was taken out of context. But
because like you're focused on football, they're like, oh my god,
I heard this, and I'm like, that's it's effective. That's
all they were saying, Like.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
It was affected.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
But they made it seem like, you know when you're like,
I don't want to do that, like you're saying how
you initially responded, but they're saying that that was lifted
out of context because this is this wasn't even the point.
They're like, they're doing a great job at targeting us
because that almost worked on me.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
But that so I think we got to have a
conversation about this at some point because that can't be
the thing that's effective. And you know, it's like the
trans community and this is it is ubiquitous here, like
even in Issmosis walking down the street, like people have
so much to say about it, and I don't know
the statistics off the top of my head, but it

(57:18):
is for sure less than three percent of society. Gender
affirming care is not something that impacts all of these people,
and they are making it their central ad and I
just I wish that that was not an effective ad.
I wish people could just look at that and say,
who gives a shit? Like I'm worried about my mortgage,
I'm worried about my tastes.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
I'm worried about because there are people.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
No, I want to hear what you have to say.
I want to hear what you have to say, but
I'm making the point like that it should not be effective,
Like that can't be the effective ad. Even if you're
saying this is a big deal, we're essentially saying, well, yeah,
if that was what she was saying, then yes, I
would be mad that my tax dollars were going to
pay for gender care. And I'm saying that, right, there

(58:02):
is an issue, But do you know all the things
that your tax dollars that And I think that that's
the point, Like there are a ton of people who
are frustrated about AID going to Ukraine, AID going to Israel,
AID going to all these places when they're hurting, and
so I think it's literally harping on a place like
you guys know, you don't have the resources you.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Once had, in part thanks to Donald Trump's tax credits. Right,
that did not help you, but there are all these
things that are benefiting United States taxpayer dollars, and this
is another one, and you're like, but when is it
going to benefit me? So they're playing that up and
they use familiar faces in our community to justify that ad.
But I think that there is a larger conversation to

(58:42):
be held about where our taxpaer dollars are going, how
they're being spent, and to ensure that the same thing,
just like power should not be from a scarcity model,
neither should our taxpayer dollars. We should be ensuring that
Medicaid is not on the chopping block, that Medicare is
not on the chopping block, that insulent Donald Trump comes
back in office is not going skyrocket back up. There

(59:04):
are a bunch of things that we need to be
talking through, but the main thing that we need to
understand is there's only one candidate in the race to
ensure that your taxpayer dollars are treated with respect and
that you are not hurting and in harm's way, And
it wasn't just a STEMI check that ensured that you
were not in harms way. That is the larger conversation.
They took one moment, though something where people are saying,

(59:27):
I don't know if I want my taxpayer dollars to
go to that, especially because the full thing was not
It wasn't And even man, I'm gonna be honest with you,
there are a lot of folks, church folks, you know,
folks in between. You don't understand. There are people's children
who don't understand and don't want to support that.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
That is a really.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Tough position to put people in when they don't see
their taxpayer dollars even fully funding SNAP benefits.

Speaker 4 (59:53):
Right, But that I guess that's my issue, Angela, because
it's like they aren't the ad they running are not
talking about tax dollars going to Ukraine. They're running are
not talking about tax dollars going to anything but gender.
They decided that's the thing that we can tap into
black men about and if there are black women, know
they are black men, if they are black people there No,

(01:00:13):
I'm talking about this specific ads, not just turn black
men is. Let me just let me. I'm saying their intention,
whoever is benefitting from it, their intention with all that's fine,
I'm looking at the imagery on and where these ads
are being run by night. Yes, yes they don't because
there's no place where only black people are tuning in.

(01:00:35):
But that ad for sure is meant to target black
men being men men men. Well, they've used black imagery.
They have him Trump surrounded by black men in the
stills they use, and it is all over Atlanta. It's
not all over DC. It wasn't all over Detroit, but
it's definitely all over It's absolutely I didn't see Detroit

(01:00:57):
like that's what I'm saying, Well, that's what I think.
That's a national but I'm saying in Atlanta like billboards everywhere.
But either way, that's I guess beside the point. I
think the issue I'm saying is that cannot be the
issue that gets us. It's like we're saying, you know, well,
we're going to shoot on this group of people because
we don't like that or we don't understand it, or

(01:01:17):
next is going to be the migrants.

Speaker 10 (01:01:19):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
That's the the discussion I think we need to have,
and I don't. I don't know how to have it
because I you know, I have it privately with people
who I've heard say things. My Glam team was saying
something about the lgbt CO community, but it was focused
on trans people, and I don't I don't know, guys.
I just think it's that that can't be the thing
that we let divide us. And it's not even a

(01:01:41):
large enough statistic that it is impacting, like our tax dollars,
all the things we pay for it. That's not even
a big thing. And they've buying you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Correct. Yeah, But I think I think this campaign is
being run on two totally different planes. I think Kamala
Harris's effort is in large part appealing to the logic, logic,

(01:02:11):
the intellect, in the respect of the voters that they
care about these issues that they say they care about
the economy, expanding opportunity, making sure that women have access
to health and their own reproductive choice decisions. And then
you've got Donald Trump here running an ad that is
strictly about grievance and emotion. And I think this is

(01:02:33):
in some ways a battle between what is the aspirational
where we want to go as a country, and the
other is completely an assault on culture, appealing to the
emotions in the fears of people, stoking that grievance and
stoking that fear. And I think the election results are
pretty much going to be a contest between whether or

(01:02:55):
not we're voting our future and aspiration or we're voting
our fears, our in our other rising or other rhythms.
And the truth is is that both have been effective
in elections over the course of over the course of
our lives. Of our lives, they've both been effective. And
so this is going to me, that's the context.

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
Say it again, is one more effective than the other
in your opinion?

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I mean, I love when I feel hopeful and as
you know, and aspired to, but I also know I
lose sleep over things that cause me to be afraid
or concerned, particularly when it comes to my children or
my family.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
And that's what they've always is one more effective for you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
And yeah, I think that it's not about what works
for me or works what works on me, because I
come at this with a little bit of a bias
and my point of privileges that I've worked in this
this is the only thing that I have worked in
right other than TV. And so what I can say
is that it has been extraordinarily effective since the beginning
of time. Fear works. Terrorizing people works, It gets you,

(01:04:02):
It forces people into doing the thing that they are
not there they're reluctantly doing. And so, yeah, I mean,
fear sadly has been a part of our political discourse,
from Bill Clinton's sister Souldia moment to Willie Horton.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
To you know, Donald Trump. I mean that was a
fraidiance that Ronald Reagan's war on drugs.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
You know, the welfare black welfare queen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Yeah, crime, crime is overriding our communities. People are saying
that they're being impacted by crime, but crime rates are
going down, but they still feel like they're seeing more
car jackings and robbing and all of those things.

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
Like so it's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Reagan also had an aspirational sense too, Okay, to your point, right,
it was make America regagain. But like we're the city
upon a hill, you know, we're the thing to be
the light, the shining beacon of the world. Let's get
back to that. Obama, Kennedy good examples of aspirations. We
can turn the page, we can have hope, we can
we can be better.

Speaker 5 (01:04:58):
I'm not saying that it has they communicate our.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
Both, No, nobody's discreeing with you, Angel I think Andrew's
making a plan and I'm like, yes, that is a
good through line. Because they were aspirational and they didn't
call them the Great Communicator for nothing, and that man
won forty nine states with that. So I think you're
just talking about what's effective and what's not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
I think they both are affected, and I do think
it matters the mood that people are in. If you're angry,
you're mad about the price of this and and Donald
Trump has told you who to blame.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
For that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
You're walking in there.

Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
One way and me, can I ask you a quick question.
The u a w President came out this week and
said that, let's be honest, we know a lot of
our members are going to vote for Trump. The Democrats
need to learn how to better frame messaging to the
working class. I surmise that the white was silent and yeah,

(01:05:55):
but do you all think that that Democrats do have
to improve their messaging, especially if y'all are saying fear works,
Like do Democrats need to be talking about policy or
is there a fear on the other side to say
you are taking us to a fascist government? Like how
can they harness this messaging strategy if it makes any
difference at all? So they're based.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Yeah, I think it's disingenuous to say that Democrats are
not trying to also harp on fear. And by the way,
harping on fear doesn't mean they're not legitimate fears, right,
It just means they were pointing them out. The focus
on Project twenty twenty five is a fear based tactic.
The focus on Donald Trump as a fascist is a
tear is a fear based tactic. The focus on him

(01:06:36):
having control over all the courts and every level of
government is a fear based tactic. The focus on January
sixth is a fear based tactic. It doesn't mean that
those things are not real, but they are harping on
our greatest fears. On Donald Trump's side, focusing on migrants
taking over the country is a fear based tactic. I
also think it's false. Focusing on the inability to have

(01:06:59):
a fear election and they're sure therefore we should never
have another election is a fear based tactic. Also, nets,
let me stop doing this because I'm gonna keep pointing
out all the reasons why he lies.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
We could go on for.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
And guess what. But the test is is that I
do believe the test is where they close what do
they want people to have on their minds as they
are going to vote, and you are well. I think
all of us would say, probably without debate, that Donald
Trump has made his bed in the fear column, that
he is betting on the other rising of Americans and

(01:07:33):
your fear of what you don't have, and that person
is to blame for it, as as the decision factor
for you, And I think for Kamala it's probably gonna
be a little bit of both. I think she's going
to be reminding women about what they have at Steak.
I think she's going to be reminding those of us
who are believers in democracy what we have at Steak.
But I also think she's saying, we can put an
end to this mess. We can turn the page right

(01:07:55):
now to the kind of future that you and I
and our children and our children show children want to
walk into you. And we'll see which is more effective
at the end of the day. I have a belief,
but we'll see.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
Can we invoke some fear right now? These are your bites, Andrew,
but I want to play them.

Speaker 5 (01:08:10):
I want to.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
I know rap, but I've said the show, but this
could be the way we close the show. As far
as I'm well, this won't be the way we close
the show. I want you all to hear this is
fear base, but it is a reasonable rational fear. Can

(01:08:32):
we please play the two sound bites from Donald Trump
from this week alone.

Speaker 12 (01:08:37):
Under no circumstances you are promising America tonight.

Speaker 7 (01:08:41):
You would never abuse power as retribution against anybody.

Speaker 12 (01:08:45):
Except for day one, except he's going to christ except
for day one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Meaning I want to close the border and I want
to drill. That's not that's real, that's not that's not retribution.
I'm going to be I'm gonna you know, I love
this guy. He says, you're not going to be a dictator,
are you?

Speaker 12 (01:09:04):
I said no, no, No other than day one, we're
closing the border and we're drilling, drilling, drilling.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
After that, I'm not a dating Okay. That sounds to
me like you're going back to Trump knew exactly what
he was saying, the violence and the retribution. He skipped
over it and talked policy. But he knows exactly what
was being.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
Because we don't know that except for day one. Can
encompass a lot of things. But let's take another look.
Because the interesting thing and I don't to be fair,
I don't know if that was from this week, but
for for sure recent history this month, Sureles made another exactly,
he made other comments, and the entire GOP came out
and saying, oh, he didn't mean it, he didn't mean it.
He didn't mean it. I want you all to hear

(01:09:44):
in his own words, who he considers an enemy. Take
a listen.

Speaker 12 (01:09:49):
That's an enemy from within. That's really that is a
threat to democracy. These are bad people. We have a
lot of bad people. But when you look at Shifty
Shift and some of the others, U, yeah, they are
to me, the enemy from with it. I think Nancy
Pelosi is an enemy from within.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
Well, he goes on to say, he goes on to
name Adam Schiff and other people.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
He also goes on to say he would use the military.

Speaker 6 (01:10:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
We also point out this is after Nancy Pelosi's husband
was damn near beat to death in her home. Like,
this is insane. This man, he's targeting our friends. He's
targeted literally recently targeted one of our friends. After after
after Sonny asked a question of Kamala Harris on the View,
he went after Sonny, he went after WHOOPI Goldberg like, I.

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
Mean, this man went after Joy, went after Yeah, you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:37):
Know that was right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Yeah, we have to stop excusing and letting Republicans get
away with excuses shaping. I know we're not but but
but but I mean, I mean the media. It's not
just the media. I'm talking about the royal we of
all of us, which is he doesn't really mean it.
He doesn't really mean it. It may not apply to
anybody on this podcast. I may I apply to you

(01:11:00):
listening in your own car, but it applies by and
large to the royal we who keep thinking that there's
a check on him, that he can't do what he
wants to do. And by the way, he doesn't want
to do what he said he wants to do. Anyway,
y'all are just exaggerating that. Excuse time out for it.
The man is telling us, in plain sight exactly what
he wants to do, and I believe them. And that's

(01:11:22):
exactly why don't I don't believe you get another shot at.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
The We didn't play the clip of him talking about
what would happen with funding from the Department of Education
for schools that taught that this country was built at
the hands of slaves and that it was on stolen land.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
He said that he would defund those schools. I think
it's important for us to note that as well.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
That is fascism. To end with the show in the
show there, that is the point. Can we end on
a happy night?

Speaker 4 (01:11:49):
And can we talk about the show?

Speaker 7 (01:11:50):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (01:11:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
Are we going to do a mini pod and then
we need to talk about the show.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Okay, let's get hope and change and many pride?

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
Really do y'all want to talk about hope and change
on the mini bus?

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
We could talk about well, we could.

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
Want to talk about I don't know, Angela, what you got? Okay,
Well we don't know what we're going to talk about,
So stay tuned, pod tune into the mini pot. Can
I tell you the mini pody?

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I tell you that's something I'm taking a point of
personal privilege for my birthday weekend coming up. My birthday wish.
My birthday wish is that you all will join us
in the atl shout it because we will be live
from the gathering spot on October twenty fifth. It is
spell House homecoming weekend, and there's no better place to
be than in a town hall conversation with.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
Native lamp pot where you are always welcome home.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
We are so close to this selection. We want to
ensure we are hearing your thoughts. We want to hear
the good, the bad, the ugly, then different. We could
hear hope and change, We could hear fear and wrath.
We want to hear all the things from you all
at the gathering spot this Friday at one thirty pm
Eastern in Atlanta, atl Shardy Aten Town.

Speaker 4 (01:12:59):
I got people text and me during this whole podcast.
People were texting me how can I get tickets to
come see you off Friday?

Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
Tell them to go to native lad dot com and
sign up.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
Okay, go to Native Land before.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
We close, guys, any reflections on Detroit one for me?
Thank you, thank you, Thank you who came out and
sat down.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
Anybody else, I thank you. It was a good show.
I am a little annoyed because Angela stole my cta,
but yes, my cta was gonna be. Angela's birthday is Saturday.
Everybody joined me and whizzing her happy birthday. She keeps saying,

(01:13:36):
the only things you want for her birthday is to
win the election and to do got Andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
We will, obviously we can do better than just winning
the election. For your birth you know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
We're gonna make it decide you guys.

Speaker 5 (01:13:47):
Ever, I don't know. Maybe we talk about this on
the pot, but I'm like actually annoyed.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
I don't want anything else I can when I tell you,
I can't think of anything else. I want to knock
on doors with my friends. I want to do phone banking.
If we go out to eat for snacks, I wanted
to talk to people in the restaurant like. I don't
know if like as gloom and doom as I was
like outside of seat he today, I don't know if
I am feeling like I.

Speaker 5 (01:14:13):
Really believe we can convince stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
I believe we can convince some people to change their
minds if they haven't turned into dog off ballats yet.
So I watch y'all to come see us, even if
you disagree. I want you to come see us on
Friday at the Gathering Spot. So my birthday wish from
the audience is come see us at the Gathering Spot
on ten twenty five. My shout out is to one
of our listeners who says she's a big fan from

(01:14:35):
New Jersey and she came to Detroit to see the show,
and she was so glad she did.

Speaker 5 (01:14:39):
So we're so glad we got to beat you. Sis.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Forgive me for not knowing your name right now, but
I'm gonna look it up and shout you out next
week as well. So we are so grateful.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
That was my favorite part.

Speaker 5 (01:14:47):
You're so grateful.

Speaker 4 (01:14:48):
That was my favorite part. We had a meet and
greet before if y'all saw our live, we were talking
about that after the show wrapped. Angel you had to
run because you were running to a flight, guys, and
then Isla popped up in a wardrobe, say she left,
and then little Pink too, you want to.

Speaker 5 (01:15:03):
Be closing a plane.

Speaker 4 (01:15:07):
I thought you left and I didn't know that you
just went to that. I thought you left and went
back to the hotel and everything. That makes a lot
more sense. I was like, where did she go and
get back that past? Okay, that makes sense. But I
loved being able to come face to face with people,
to hear what people like, and you know, just meeting
our listeners because we feel like we know y'all from

(01:15:27):
y'all comments and your questions, and we invite that. I
kept telling everybody put it on video and send it
to us. But that was honestly my favorite part. So
if y'all come to the gathering spot on Friday, like
we're not untouchable, you know, like we will mingo, we'll
chat with you guys. We'll here, we'll take your questions,
and hopefully we'll have time in the show. I don't know,
I haven't seen the run down, but hopefully we'll have
time in the show to have some interactive you know,

(01:15:48):
we live with.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
You guys, dude with black Men. I feel like was honestly,
you guys. I hate to be biased, but I think
Detroit was my favorite podcast ever. It was it felt
it felt like it felt like we centered what we

(01:16:09):
wanted to discuss and voices. It wasn't about somebody with
the platform. To me, it really was about hearing different
perspectives and being engaged in a conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:16:19):
It felt very It felt like welcome home.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
It felt like a home kitchen table conversation, and I
really really enjoyed that. So thank y'all so much for
what you did to facilitate this amazing space every week,
TIF and Andrew.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
It's no this the Detroit, but my favorite, to be
honest was Kim's Kim Black Oh that was Mia one too, Yes,
because it was interactive. We didn't have guests like we
just they could hear us talk and they could talk
with us. And everybody in that room had such wisdom
to lay out and had such deep interpersonal thoughts and

(01:16:52):
political strategy. Y'll take a like delivered a sermage. You know,
I just remember every comment. I'm like, man, we could.
I wanted to cut that entire episode for social media because,
like all of it was so amazing, and I like
it when it's less guests. I know the viewers like
to have guests, but I like to have audience interacts,
you know. I like to hear from our viewers, and

(01:17:14):
I think our viewers want to hear what we have
to say. And I like when they can stand up
and say, I don't know, Taveny, I disagree with that,
or like, I don't know Angela, I might have a
different thought, or like I love They always said we
love you Andrew, we voted for you, Andrew.

Speaker 5 (01:17:27):
I love a g I love all the episodes, interested
none of them are my favorite. He got three kids.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
They know they've all been different. Each of them have
all been different and have offered something I think very
special and unique to the listeners to be able to
walk away from because they certainly offered something different to me,
but all of them different and I love that part
of it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:50):
Well, can I just shout out one more thing?

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
We had April Variton, who is the first black woman
president of s c IU ever. She joined us on
Saturday and to trade as well. Like even being six,
she was like, I'm knocking doors, I'm come talk to y'all.
I'm gonna figure this out. That is a no limit
soldier right there. So April, we see you. We're very
grateful for your partnership for you, yes, and we got

(01:18:12):
your back for show.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
So yes, that's real. We should all be pulling her
because when they win, we all win. Yeah, come on,
get it done. But before we end the show, y'all,
I want to remind everyone to please leave us a
review and subscribe to Native lamppod. As you know we
always say, We're available on all platforms, YouTube and obviously

(01:18:34):
all the places you get your your pods. New episodes
drop every Thursday. You can also follow us some social media.
We are Angelo Ride, Tiffany Cross, and Andrew Gilliam. Welcome home, everybody.
We've got just twelve right twelve until election.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Thank you for joining the Natives intention of what the
info and all of the latest Rock Gillam and cross
connected to the statement that you leave on our socials.
Thank you sincerely for the pass reason for your choices cleared.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
So grateful to the execute.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
Roles for serve, defend and protect the truth even in PA.
For welcome home to all of the Natives wait.

Speaker 9 (01:19:13):
Thank you, welcomesso.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeart Radio in partnership
with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
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Tiffany Cross

Andrew Gillum

Angela Rye

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