White Folks & Bad Law with Elie Mystal

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Native lamdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice Media.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome home, y'all, this is Native lamppod.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
We are An episode is seventy three.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm your host, Angela Raie, along with hosts Tiffany Cross
and Andrew gillim And today we have a very very
special guest, our good friend Ellie Miss Style, who is
the writer of not one, but two amazing books. Today
we're talking about bad law, ten popular laws that are
ruining America, and there are a lot of other things
that are ruinning America. So we'll get into all of
that today, as well as several other items. So we're

(00:37):
going to jump right in. I want to hear what
y'all want to talk about. I know, I just want
to shout out everybody who subscribe to our YouTube channel.
We are now at one hundred thousand subscribers and guilty,
so shout out to all of you. Thank you for
supporting this NAACP Image Award winning show. And I want
to ask you all what you want to talk about today.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
You know, I got to be excited about talking about
Ellie's book Ellie.

Speaker 5 (01:05):
I read your book.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
It's amazing, and I think the ten laws that you
elected to write about are very applicable to what's happening
in the news right now.

Speaker 5 (01:13):
So that's what's on my mind.

Speaker 6 (01:15):
Andrewitch you got, I got Ellie on digital and I
am excited about today's conversation. But I'm also excited about
something else that happened this week that I think confused
a little fire into the Democratic and maybe the American
people writ large, and that is our good brother, Senator
Cory Booker.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Amazing, So we'll talk about Corey Booker. I know we're
also going to talk about the madness that is the
House floor. Why would Speaker Johnson just decide to adjourn
in the middle of a voting week. They need to
get to work, But also we don't know if they
would even do that. But we're going to talk about
that and so much more. We're going to get into
all of this with our guest host today, Ellie Misstyle.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Let's jump into it.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
So I actually want to start talking about proxy voting
today with this video from Representative Melanie Stansbury, who also
joined us on the State of the People marathon. Just briefly,
but I want you ought to hear what she has
to say about Mike Johnson canceling all votes this week
as a result of this issue.

Speaker 7 (02:15):
Well, it is always an adventure around here. This afternoon,
they tried to run the rule that allows us to
vote on various pieces of legislation that included their entire
agenda for the week, and part of what they included
in that rule was some language to try to shut

(02:36):
down a bipartisan petition that was signed by the majority
of House members on both sides of the aisle to
make it possible for new parents with newborns to proxy vote,
which means you can vote remotely so that you don't
have to endanger your baby and new parents by coming

(02:57):
in in those early days. And like I said, it
was bipartisan. It was supported by both some of the
most conservative and progressive members and both sides of the aisle.
And the Speaker is so hell bent and shutting down
this bipartisan petition, and we're not sure why that it

(03:19):
got voted down. The rule got voted down on the
floor which was trying to shut that down, and rather
than try to take it back up, make a compromise
give parents the ability to vote remotely as they're recovering
from the birth of a child. He canceled votes for

(03:39):
the rest of the week and just shut the entire
thing down.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
This is so crazy.

Speaker 7 (03:44):
It doesn't even like. The way this place is operating
is like a madhouse right now.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
But I guess we'll regroup and hopefully.

Speaker 7 (03:54):
We'll get back on track and I'll see you guys soon.

Speaker 6 (03:58):
No, the second graders are loose and in chargeous. I'm
curious to know if y'all think the speaker is more
offended by accommodating women who just gave birth or and
by the way, this is for ten weeks. They're ten
weeks where these folks get to vote remote after having

(04:19):
a baby, being a mother or father welcoming a baby
into the world that they would be able to have
a proxy vote. I'm just curious because the other part
that we don't talk a lot about around Project twenty
twenty five is the real misogynistic, very unilateral view that
they take of the family and their desire to see

(04:40):
the woman at home in the kitchen, barefoot bearing babies
and daddy going out to work is their view, and
it's almost in equal portion to the dismantlement of dei
and the privatization of government and all that other stuff.
But their views on the family are hardcore in that document,
and it's reiterated time and time again. So I'm just

(05:02):
curious to know if y'all a you think he's more
offended by women being able to vote proxy after giving
birth or does it upset them that men might possibly
be included. And that's just taking a male, female view
of a family, But there are many versions of what
families look like.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
I mean, I take your point, Andrew, and I think
it's really interesting that these strange bedfellows are advocating for this.
And look, Anna, Paulina Luna, who is the other person
at the center of this controversy is from your neck
of the woods, Andrew.

Speaker 6 (05:34):
And yeah, further south than me, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
In Florida, and she is batshit crazy an election denier.
And it's like, you voted for the same people who
are denying you your right to vote. Which brings me
to this literary masterpiece here, because Ellie, one of the
first pieces, the first laws that you talk about, is
voter suppression, and this is a form of voter suppression.

(05:59):
Gear words elected members of Congress. So I'm curious your
thoughts on this.

Speaker 8 (06:04):
Yeah, So to answer answer to answer Andrew's question, I
absolutely think it is laser focus directed at women who
have the audacity to unchain themselves from the stove and
try to go out to do their job. And what
they're basically trying to set up is a two tiered
system where they can say women congressmen can't do the job.
Women congress people can't do the job the same way

(06:26):
that women that men can do the job, and so
we shouldn't elect them to Congress. And that is there,
That is the thin end of the wedge to more
generally restrict voting rights for women in general. I think
it's laser focused on the misogyny and the family issues,
and it's also like one of these things. And I
talk about this a little bit in the book. If

(06:47):
you think about like how this country is structured and
the deep roots of misogyny that are layered into this country.
Here's a pop quiz. How many legislatures in American history
have been controlled by women, have had a majority women
in their in the legend of zer right And the

(07:08):
answer is, of course never in Congress, not once in
American history has called him had a majority of women.
The first one was Nevada in two thousand and eighteen.
That was had the Nevada State House was had a
majority of women over men. When you think about the
fact that women have made up about half the half

(07:30):
of the population forever because that's how DNA works, and
yet women have only made up the majority in a
few state houses Posts twenty eighteen and never in Congress,
you can see how this entire country is kind of
by men for men, consistently stamping on the women's right

(07:54):
to vote, right to choose, right to do anything other
than have babies and make sandwiches and so. I in
the book, I talk about how the very first voter
registration kind of proposal was in Massachusetts in eighteen hundred
and there was this back and forth between the Attorney
General of Massachusetts and John Adams, who would go on

(08:16):
to be the second President of the United States, and
the attorney general was arguing that they should lower the
property requirements for white men to vote right because remember
this is this is the eighteen hundreds. You know, black
people aren't voting because they're not considered people. Women aren't
voting because they're not considered people. Poor white men are
not being allowed to vote because they're not considered people,

(08:38):
and they're trying to lower the property requirements for poorer
white men to vote. And Adams, opposing this measure, literally says, well,
if you let poor white men vote, I mean, what's
next women voting? I mean, come on, guys, like that's
his literal argument in a letter. So the mass the

(08:59):
misogne sticker roots of this country are deep, and make
an argument in the book that the nineteen sixty five
Civil Rights Act is the most important piece of legislation
ever passed in this country because not only did it
take us out of our apartheid past, it's the first
law that made full, fair and equal elections even a
possibility on paper. People also forget before the nineteen sixty

(09:23):
five Civil Rights Act, the Nineteenth Amendment, which gave women
the right to vote, didn't mean jack for black women.
Black women were not voting because white suffragettes the one
the privilege in the nineteenth Amendment. Now I know, they
had to wait until the nineteen sixty five Voting Rights
Act to even have a shot at voting, which is

(09:44):
why that piece of legislation is so important, and that's
why the Republicans are always trying to tear it.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Can I ask you, Angela, because you're the only person
among us who has worked on Capitol Hill, how does
it work now if somebody is pregnant, Like, how did
your members, as a former executive director of the Congression
Black Caucus, if somebody had to be out, how did
it work when a vote came up?

Speaker 3 (10:06):
It didn't.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
But I was gonna mention that some of the background
on this that I think is important is that there
was a member of Congress, a Democratic member from Colorado,
who had some challenges around the birth of her child,
and they and asked for proxy voting. This is a
bipartisan measure. As crazy as you say, this woman is

(10:26):
who left the Freedom Caucus behind this issue. There are
some moments where permanent interests trump your permanent enemies or
your permanent friends, as we always talk about. So I
think that it is important to understand that when there
was a national crisis, the pandemic, they voted by proxy.
There was a piece in here that would have allowed

(10:47):
someone not just the twelve weeks of a new mother,
but also if they're experiencing a serious medical condition. There
are a number of members, including Sylvester Turner who passed
literally the night of or the day after the joint
address from Donald Trump, that are in the middle of
health crises. Congressman Sheila Jackson Lee who had cancer right

(11:12):
Congressman coming to was very ill, Donald Payne Senior and
Donald Payne Junior who were very ill. There are always
reasons why your humanity should leave first. And what I
would agree with you on tip is this question around
what did you expect from this party, this party that
doesn't want to democratize access to healthcare because health issues
and concerns and challenges and conditions are absolutely nonpartisan, but

(11:38):
they still want to make you pay for health care
costs at a premium unless you're a healthcare or health
insurance company. Chip Roy, who last night tweeted or Tuesday
night when this happened, tweeted, proxy voting is unconstitutional and
will be abused and expanded.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Show up for work or don't run for congress.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, god forbid that life happens to your friends, because
that is what we're dealing with. How can you not
account for a health emergency something with your child? Human
beings are what make up Congress. Congress is not and
you know an institution that exists and is run by robots,
although sometimes I wonder, given their the conditions of the heart, if.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
They are not, how could you vote that way? It's
sane to me?

Speaker 8 (12:22):
Can we also talk about how should I leave this
country treats new mothers generally, and especially for the party
that claims to be pro life and pro family. I
did it.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Just dropped to EO on ivf Ellie.

Speaker 8 (12:35):
Like like I like to tell people like never like
I do a lot of TV for free, right, and
I always like to tell people never never discount the
male privilege that allows me to do so much free
television at a moment's moments, right, because I got two kids.
I got a twelve year old and a nine year old.
And yet if you call me at five o'clock and

(12:56):
say can you be in studio at eight o'clock? That's
but I can do it because my wife is going
to be home to take care of our children. Right.
Flip that around, and in a lot of households, how
many women are with partners who can drop their jobs
and are willing to drop their jobs and drop their
careers at the drop of a hat because the woman

(13:19):
gets called into the studio unexpectedly at eight o'clock for free.
How many women are with husbands that are going to
do that or with partners that are going to do that.
Not everybody, Not everybody. And we're not even talking And
I know I'm looking at Tiffany right now, we're not
even talking about you know, Tiffany has to get into
the studio what three hours before me to do this

(13:40):
and the hair and whatever to make sure they're at
Whereas I can just roll my fat ass up whenever
I want to with the pick in the hair and
be like yo, I'm good to go. Let's roll right
like the I've been in these green rooms. I'm sure
you guys have too, with women guests who are there
with their kids because they could not get child care

(14:01):
to do the hit to advance their career or make
their points. And this is just that small slice of
weird life that is kind of live television, right. This
lack of care or help that we give to families,
and especially families with young children, permeates our society, and
the burden disproportionately falls on women. To just add that

(14:26):
to the list to just add that to the pile
that's on our society, that's on not a lot of
people not having the best partners. There are lots of
ways that we can skin it. But the party that
most often talks about family, talks about life, talks about
the sanctity of the family, is also the party that

(14:48):
makes it as hard as possible to raise children in
this society.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
All right, on the other side of this break, we'll
get to hear directly from our leader for the moment Saturday,
Corey Book, stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Speaking of the party that's making it hard.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
I think this is a good moment to talk about
someone that was calling out all of the parties, that
party's hypocrisy, and he did it for twenty five hours.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Let's roll, This isn't it.

Speaker 9 (15:27):
And so I've tried over the last twenty five hours
in one minute to center the conversation back on what
will we do with good conscience. People who are saying
I serve this country, I risked my life, shouldn't fail
to keep my job. People are saying this country once
made itself the envy of the world because we invested

(15:49):
in high quality education for every child. I don't like
what's going on the end of the Department of Education.
People are saying, I worked harder than I ever have,
but the prices on everything in my life were getting higher.
People who are saying that America I learned about in school,
the one where people's rights are protected. The people are
saying that why are we yet again going through another
healthcare battle that threatens millions of people. The people are

(16:10):
saying that I'm worried about the financial security in the
future of my country. The voices of folks and so
I end by saying simply this where I started was
John Lewis. I don't know how to solve this. I
don't know how to stop us from going down this road.
Chuck Schumer's now told me that they're greasing the skids
to do these things. I'm sorry, but I know who

(16:34):
does have the power, the people of the United States
of America. The power of the people is greater than
the people in power. It is time to heed the
words of the man. I began this whole thing with
John Lewis. I beg folks to take his example of
his early days, where he made himself determined to show

(16:54):
his love for his country at a time the country
didn't love him. To love this country so much and
be such a patriot that he endured meetings savagely on
the Edmund Pettis Bridge, at lunch counters, on freedom rides.
He said he had to do something. He would not
normalize a moment like this. He would not just go

(17:15):
along with business as usual. He wouldn't know how to
solve it. But there's one thing that he would do
that I hope we all can do that. I think
I did a little bit of tonight. He said, for
us to go out and cause some good trouble, necessary

(17:35):
trouble to redeem the soul of our nation. I want
you to redeem the dream. Let's be bold in America,
not to being into great Americans, not divide us against
each other. Let's be bolder in America with a vision
that inspires, with hope that starts with the people of

(17:58):
the United States of America. That's how this country started,
we the people. Let's get back to the ideals that
others are threatening. Let's get back to our founding documents
that those are perfect geniuses. Had some very special words
at the end of the Declaration of Independence. Was one
of the greatest in all of humanity, declarations of interdependence,
when our founder said we must mutually pledge, pledge to

(18:20):
each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.
We need that now from all Americans. This is a
moral moment. It's not left or right, it's right or wrong.
It's getting good trouble, my friend, Madam President, I yield the.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
Floor, Angela Tiffany, Ellie, what did what did that? What
did that twenty five plus hours do to you? As
we sit right now in this country knowing all what
all kind of hell is breaking loose? I'm just curious,
given all the that's come down over the transition of
power since Trump resumed office, I'm just curious what that

(19:06):
did for you emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, mentally, whatever.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Ow Yo, my time to Ellie, But can I just
give a quick history why this was so significant, Because
one of the frustrations I always have is how the
media missed it and missed this moment completely without giving context.
So he broke the record of strom Thurman, who was
an infamous segregationist who previously filibustered for more than twenty

(19:33):
five hours, and a thing that he was protesting was
the Civil Rights Act, the nineteen fifty seven Civil Rights Act,
and how he sustained himself as he had one foot
off the floor and it was a bucket where he
could relieve himself so he could keep one foot on
the floor and he ate little bits of hamburger meat,
just because he was that incensed about giving equality to people.

(19:57):
And I think why it is so important to put
that in context our listeners and our viewers is because
as those civil rights are getting rolled back today, Senator
Corey Booker. Because and Angela will correct me if I'm wrong.
This wasn't a filibuster, This was an open debate, and
so it was a speech, right and so he you know,
I kind of feel like, you know, I think Angela

(20:21):
had some frustration with me some weeks ago. So I'm like,
I don't know what to do, Like I feel hopeless,
and she's like, well.

Speaker 8 (20:27):
What are you doing?

Speaker 4 (20:28):
You know, like we have things going on, like get
a part of this fight. And ever since then, I
have to say I've been feeling.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
A little more hopeful every day. And that moment gave
me hope.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
You know, being a part of a fight gave me
hope and seeing him do that gave me hope. So
I think the historical context there is so important and
shout out because this isn't just a podcast, you know,
this is an area where we can come and talk
about these things and be honest about feeling discouraged.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
And on that particular day, I got some encouragement.

Speaker 8 (20:56):
So yeah, I guess I'll speak to the spiritual first
before I speak to the intellectual part and spiritually, and
I am not a spiritual man, so that is even
a little bit weird for me to say. But I
think that I echo Tiffany so so very much when
I say that I am tired. I am often despondent,

(21:19):
the part of me that people see on the radio
on television that takes such incredible energy, and I when
the camera goes off or when the mic goes off,
that energy just drains out of me. And I feel
so tired and scared and worried about my family. And

(21:40):
I was literally on a went to bed at eight
o'clock because I had to get up at three o'clock
in the morning to take a train out of Boston.
And when I got up at three o'clock, he was
still talking. And when I got on the train, he
was still talking. And when I got my train came in,
he was still talking. And I was looking at that
man and I was like, fool, you're the one who's tired. Nah, Bro,

(22:04):
you don't, you don't. It just reminded me I don't
get to be tired, and not just because Corey Booker
wasn't tired. I've talked about this before, but I but
I'll do this thing sometimes when I'm feeling really down,
just really like I can't go on, I can't fight
these people. I should just move to Montreal. I should
just move out of the country, right. And I'm like

(22:24):
in a CBS and I'm seeing all these white folks
in the CBS, and I'm like, you probably hate me,
maybe I hate you too, right, And then I think,
what would Frederick Douglas say, Right, Frederick Douglas was right
next to me in the CBS. What would he say?
And he would say, Bro, you're you're tired, my man.
I was a slave, right. I taught myself how to read.

(22:47):
I didn't have no schoolhouse rock And you're tired, right,
my brother. You have every book in the world available
on a magical device in your pocket. Hmm, right, I
had to, Right, I had to risk my life for
like a few pages, right, for a few letters. And

(23:09):
you have every book in the world and your you
can write any book you want to and you're tired. Nah, brother,
you don't get to be tired. And Booker reminded me
that we do not come from a defeated people, right,
We do not come from a bowed or cowed people.

(23:30):
We come from fighters, We come from struggle, right. And
it just it was a it was unnecessary after so
much of the crap the Democrats have done, placard Gate,
you know, at the sity of the Union, at the
fake state of the Union, after so much crap that
Democrats have done that has been enervating to me. That

(23:51):
has felt like knives in my back. Right to see
Booker out there, standing out front and taking some heat
for all the rest of us. Reminded me that we
don't get to be tired, We don't get to be depressed.
Our job is to push the rock, and it doesn't
matter if the rock makes it to the top of
the mountain, because then the next generation up we'll just

(24:12):
push it a little bit more. We wouldn't be here
if people behind us hadn't been pushing the rock when
it looked hopeless, right, and so now we got all
we got to do is keep pushing the rock and
keep trying. And so that's spiritually what that meant for me,
very quickly. Intellectually also important. And these people who were
just like, oh, it was just a stunt first of all, Yeah,

(24:33):
it was a stunt because the Democrats don't have any power.
So what are we supposed to do other than stunt
on these fools? That's literally what we can do right now.
Number one. Number two, how do you think the conversation
gets started? Right when people have been asking me with
my book, like, you know, why did you write this
book when you didn't know who was gonna win the election?
It's like, dude, I wrote this book before Joe Biden's

(24:55):
first the Band. I was pretty sure who was gonna
win the election when I wrote it. All right, I'm
not under any illusions. I wrote the book because I've
been calling it my start of writing Project twenty twenty nine.
Right when did Republicans start writing Project twenty twenty five?
In twenty twenty one when they had no power? When
they at lust when they got in their asses kick

(25:15):
and they were so pissed off they tried to attack
the capitol and that didn't work, and that's when they
started planning for twenty twenty five. So in the same way,
this is when I start planning for twenty twenty nine, right.
And the thing about Booker is that he reminds us
that you have to start from somewhere, you have to
build momentum and build the conversation from somewhere. And he's

(25:39):
obviously a person who is trying to start and build
that momentum that sure will not have an immediate effect today,
but it's how we build forward. We're too much of
a nation of front runners, right, We're too much of
a nation of like if we didn't win, if we
can't win tomorrow, then it wasn't worth it. No, No,

(26:00):
it's building towards winning is actually what the work is
that we have to do right now.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
I really appreciate what you're what you're saying, Ellie. I've
watched that.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Portion of Corey's closing five times and every time I
get chills, and every time I'm ready to cry. And
the first thing that comes to mind is like, why
he ain't challenging Chuck Schumer like, what what's good? I
will tell you too. I was looking at your introduction.
I have not read this book yet, Ellie, and I'm sorry.
I'm going to read it. I'm very excited about actually,

(26:35):
but it's remarkable to me that what Corey kept referencing
on the floor is that he was trying to beat
the man that was trying to ensure that he would
never be able to stand on the floor of the
Senate floor. And it's this is about something so much bigger.
There's another segregationist that is ever present now, sign in
executive orders every single day. And one of the things

(26:55):
that you say in here is, if it were up
to me, I treat every law passed before nineteen sixty
five as presumptively unconstitutional. And I think that that is
such a great point, and it would be a great
starting point if only we had some white allies in
the House and the Senate that could understand that, if
only we had judges on the courts at the federal

(27:17):
level who could understand that, that can understand that we've
been operating at a deficit. And even though we just
celebrated or commemorated really bloody Sunday, the sixtieth anniversary of
Bloody Sunday this year later this year, the Voting Rights
Act of nineteen sixty five. We still are not free,
and they're dialing back these laws every single day. In fact,

(27:37):
in Wisconsin, while folks are celebrating the victory of the
Supreme Court justice, they also constitutionally it's not a state
constitution mandate for voter ID, which means it can't be
challenged anymore. What is the path forward to us deciding
that all of these laws are unconstitutional where they are
steady using them as building blocks for how to oppress
us further in twenty twenty.

Speaker 8 (27:59):
Five, you gotta get democrats and as you say, white
allies and black allies ready to fight, like ready to
understand the need to repeal these laws. That's why I
wrote the book, and ready to basically not give these
laws nearly as much credit. If all you've got for
why we should do X versus Y is that an

(28:21):
all white man said so in nineteen twenty one, you
can miss me with that, right, that is not a
winning argument to me. You have to give me a
present day reason for why your idea or your law
should exist that we used to do it that way.
That's not an argument that the slavers really wanted it
that way. That's not an argument. I don't care what

(28:44):
the slavers wanted. But one of the things that I
believe we have a problem with as a country, as
a party, and sometimes as a people, is that we
accept the bad note right, we accept we accept the
bad as like there, well, there's nothing we can do
about the past. We can only look forward to the future. Now, No,
we can do some things about the past, at least
the parts of the past that are still like reaching

(29:06):
their hands out to grab us and hold us back. Now, no,
we can do something about that, right, And that's kind
of what I try to refocus and reform the debate around,
like these things in the past that still affect us
today are things from the past that still need to
be stamped out and fight and fought. And it's not
enough to just do the back and forth of comedy

(29:28):
of like, oh, well, this is how we always did it,
so it's how we're gonna continue doing enough, miss me,
with that, I don't.

Speaker 6 (29:34):
I think you're doing some much much deeper than that,
And that is and I'd like you to give us
some guidance and the listeners some guidance on this is
we're almost always operating from the place where the table
is already set right, where we're not adding anything new
to the table. We are barely taking anything off. If anything,

(29:56):
we're just mending the glass that broke on the table.
But we are all accepting what came before. And I
think in thinking about getting rid of a whole set
of laws that pre existed a date, you are tapping
into your imagination. You are deepening into what it is

(30:17):
to if we had a blank sheet of paper, then
you just start writing from the blank spot. And I
like to know where do you give yourself permission? And
then how do we give others permission to think about
just society in general, wherever we are at our local level,
at our county's, state, national level, how do we how

(30:40):
do we begin the process of decoupling ourselves from a
commitment to what has been to really affirmatively saying, you
know what, man, if I could dream this the shit I.

Speaker 8 (30:52):
Do, this is what should be right, This is what
should be part of So I have two answers to
that question. One, I didn't come up with this. I
learned this by watching South Africa, right, because South Africa
had a racist, horrible bore constitution. Right, and when they
got free, you know, Mendela is free and Matt Damon

(31:13):
wins a rugby game and like all this stuff is
going on, Right, what did South Africa do. Did they
just go say, like, oh, our old racist constitution, We're
just gonna make some amendments and you know, change some
of the terms and now we're good. No, they were like,
get that shit out of here, get it just get
it straight out here, throw it out, the bath, the water,
the baby, all of it. Throw it out. We're starting again,

(31:36):
and we're starting again this time asking everybody, not just
the white folks. Right. South Africa had a whole different
constitutional convention that included, yes, the majority black population, but
also whites. Whites were not unrepresented in the New African
South African Constitutional Congress, right, and they wrote a new
document which now stands as one of the best written

(31:59):
constitution in the world. If you ask legal scholars and
human rights watchers, South Africa has exceeded our constitution because
they started again from front first principles, right, So that's
number one. Like, if if you the the idea that
put like this, the idea that my people were kidnapped, captured,

(32:21):
brought here and slaved here, got free, but then still
have to live under the laws as they were understood
by their enslavers. Nah, that ain't freedom. That ain't freedom.
That is a different form of capture. Right, you don't
have you can go back throughout history. You don't have
vikings getting you know, kidnapped by the Romans and then

(32:45):
getting free and at all. I'm just gonna stay here
in Rome and live as or No, that's not that's
not how it happens. Right, So if we're gonna if
we're gonna be free, at some point, we have to
address the terrible laws and terrible principles of the plast
as brought to us by our enslavers. Right, So that's
kind of big picture number one. Number two, Just on
the ground in the trenches, Never accept the premise of

(33:09):
the question. Never accept the bad premise of their questions, right,
Never accept that it that we we just have to
wait a little bit longer for white folks to get
an attle bit better. No, no, no, no, Like it's the
fierce urgency of now that I'm talking about, Right, we
can right now start changing some of these things in

(33:29):
our first in our local communities, then statewide, and then
and then nationally. And again, that's not something that I
came up with. That is something that I learned from
watching Republicans, because when Republicans take power, look at how
they use it. They use it maximally. I made the
argument that Republicans come into office with that sledgehammer and

(33:50):
they just smash things. They smash what they don't like,
they smash what they think is holding them back. Right,
Democrats come into power with super glue and sell it tape,
and we're gonna duct tape the thoughts back to get
there and protect the institutions. And that no, and I'm
trying to talk about, let's come into power if we're
ever allowed to have it again with a sledgehammer. There

(34:11):
are other things that we need to smash. That's why
you'll never hear me really defend institutions. I'm not an
institutionalist because the institutions most of the time are shitty,
especially to me. Trump is taking a piss all over
the FBI. You don't hear me saying like we need
to restore the FBI. Nah, the FBI. I don't think

(34:32):
that we should take it down the way Trump is
taking it down. I don't think that we should politicize
it and turn it into truly a secret police the
way Trump and Cash Pattel want to do it. But
I don't think that what we really need to do
is just go back to the way the FBI worked
when it was I don't know, not investigating Brett Cabinack. No,
I don't think that FBI was any goddamn better, right,

(34:55):
No need to. We need to fix and reform the FBI.
But I'm not gonna defend the in of the FBI.
I'm not going to defend any institution. I'm not going
to defend the institution of the filibuster. Are you kidding me?
That's terrible, I hope, and one of the reasons why
I was pissed at Placard Gate. I want the Republicans
to right now be forced to break the filibuster. I

(35:17):
want them to have to break the filibuster in order
to get their horrible agenda through because it's clear to
me that only Republicans have the stones to do it.
Democrats will never have the stones to do it unless
Republicans do it first. So I want Republicans to break
that so then if we ever get power again, we

(35:37):
can break it.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
Right there, Ellie, I want to talk about some of
the things that you write in your book, because one
I could listen to you and Andrew talk because Andrew,
I would argue as our resident institutionalist, so and then
he has these very eloquent questions that he asked you.
But some of the things. One thing that I loved
about your book is I go to law school, you know,

(36:01):
and so.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
I typically, well, typically, hey.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
I typically ask people who did go to law school
explain things to me. And Angela and I have a
friend Albert, and he's always saying, like, read the opinions
like they're written in a way that they are, you know,
digestible for people who didn't go to law school.

Speaker 5 (36:21):
And your book is written that way.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
The intro that Angela is referencing your whole thought process
about erasing every law before in nineteen sixty five, it
is written in such a witty way that's funny, but
also it enrages you and the way that you break
down these laws. One question you ask, which is your
chapters are all questions and you say how can you

(36:44):
murder someone if you didn't kill anybody? Another chapter is
how do they fit the Federal budget inside People's wounds?

Speaker 5 (36:50):
And it starts you out at.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
These big, big, overarching themes, and then you go into
these stories and your breakdown is so amazing that I
was able to get through this book so quickly, and
I understood every piece of it. And I have the
pleasure of knowing you, so I could text you as
I was reading, and it was just so well written.
I so want to ask this question, but I would
be stealing it from my brother Andrew. Andrew has such

(37:16):
a great question that I want to hear your thoughts on,
and he has a very eloquent way of asking these questions.
But Andrew, I'm curious your thoughts. And I know we're
gonna do this later as a whole special, But when
we were talking this morning, you said you wanted to
get Ellie's thoughts.

Speaker 6 (37:31):
On YO, so set up, set up, and Ellie, I
don't know this.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
I want to hear, but we first have to take
this break and be right back.

Speaker 6 (37:57):
It is, as you probably observed, particularly amongst black academicians,
black lawyers, even civil rights leaders of the past have
been beginning the opening of this relitigation of Brown v.
Board and whether or not that should have been our fight,
and whether or not the Supreme Court decided rightly or

(38:19):
should Plessy v. Ferguson still be which is for those
I think all of us know this as shorthand, but
you know, plus to b. Ferguson the decision that basically
says separate but equal, but inherently unequal right. And then
of course the fight became around how it is that
we have integration and equality by virtue of basically the

(38:45):
mixing of of of the races in our in our
public education system. And I'm just I don't know if
you've entered that that fray of conversation and whether some
of this feels a little sacrilegious even to me. I
got to tell you to because I'm so faithful to
the work that was done there. But it did beg

(39:05):
the question as we as we ask. I talked to
some the old heads that I know who live around,
who are in my family, and there's some real striking
divergent opinions about whether or not we should have kept
us or if integration was a right fight to be had.

Speaker 8 (39:21):
Yeah, I have weighed into this a little bit because
I also know Michael Harriet, and so you can't know
having to form an opinion about this. So the first
thing I want to say about integration and Brown v.
Bordived specifically as a legal case, was that you have
to remember that the black people push pushing, not just
Brown v. Bordived, but all of the other associated integration cases.

(39:45):
We're not asking for integration. We were asking for our
money back, right. Brown v. Bordived is the top line case.
But there was another case in South Carolina that was
consolidated into the same case about integration, and what they
we were asking for was not coequal black and white schools.
They were asking for a bus so that black students

(40:08):
could get busted to their black school as opposed to
to having to walk eight miles literally in the rain
and swamps of North Carolina, when the white kids had
ten buses. Give us one. We paid taxes, Give us
a bus for our kids. That was what they were
asking for, not to go to the white school, but
to have the opportunity to make the black school as

(40:31):
best and accessible as it could be with the taxpayer
money that the whites were already extracting from our community.
And the answer from the Supreme Court was not give
blacks the money that they have put into the system.
It was throw them into the white schools, and then
they can't bitch anymore, right, which is an answer, right,

(40:52):
But the actual ask was give us our money back.
And you see this happen all the time in litigation
around black issues, where we're asking for one thing, and
even when we win, the court doesn't give us what
we ask for, they give us something else. They give
us what they think is the most beneficial for white people,
even when they agree with our point, to say nothing

(41:15):
of what happens when they disagree with our point. Right,
So on that kind of thirty thousand foot look at integration,
Always remember the quest for integration was not the quest
to have the opportunity to eat lunch with Chip Harrington.
The second. I don't give a damn about Chip. I
don't want I don't need to, I don't need to
hang out with Chip. I want the money. I want

(41:38):
the money that our people have put into the system
to come back out to our people at the equivalent rate.
And that is what white people have always denied us, Right,
That's number one number two on the kind of social
questions of integration. I grew up an I am an
integrated man, right. I went to phrenominantly white school. I

(42:00):
was the only black kid and most of my schools
and most of my classrooms, and that was difficult, right
that that has scarring, psychological scarring, other scarring. I know
Pearl Jam's lyrics better than I know nass right, like
this just it's I do I can. I can sing
you a Pearl Jam song right now at the.

Speaker 6 (42:20):
Time to give me some Tom petty, Tom petty.

Speaker 10 (42:25):
She grew up in Indiana Town and a good look
at mama who never was around, like I can do
them all right because I went to white schools and
that's just how I'm gonna roll right right, So that's scarring,
like never never goes away.

Speaker 8 (42:38):
I do believe the integration was great for white folks
because the Chris Rock has this great joke. All black
people can do is wait for better white folks to
show up. The white folks right now a little bit
better than the white folks one hundred years ago. Hopefully
in a hundred years there'll be some even better white folks. Right.
That's like, that's.

Speaker 11 (42:59):
That's about right on the movie like You Got It,
Like integration, I provided value to the white folks who
met me right throughout all of my education, right, I
was doing double duty.

Speaker 8 (43:13):
I was educating myself, but I was also educating them.
And now those white people are better off for having
met me. Their children are better off for having met me.
Their children are better off from having met my kids.
I am a I am an educator of white folks, right,
and that is part of the way that we make
a better generation of white people. So kind of utilitarianly speaking,

(43:37):
I think integration was great for the country. Was it
great for me personally? I don't know. That's hard to say,
because it's hard to then unravel all of the other things.
If integration comes but the money doesn't come, then it
was clearly then segregation was clearly worse for me. In
this kind of Wakanda future where we don't have integration
but we do have all of our money, am I

(43:58):
better or worse off? That's really just hard to say, right,
It's hard to project into some truly at that point
science fiction future where black people receive all the resources
we need and deserve and then live in a separate
society if the white folks ever, But it'd be interesting

(44:20):
to try, right, if the white folks ever wanted to
pay us back, give us our reparations, give us our
back pay, and then give us the land that we
should have. Right. I don't know how that. I don't
know that we're worse off than you get you want
to get, because you know I was. I'm always like,
you gotta give your reparations. But reparations with that land
means nothing. So we'll take whatever. We'll take New York,

(44:43):
New Jersey, you know, New England. We'll just take all
that y' all can have, Texas or whatever. We'll we'll
take our little enclave, you know, north of Philly, south
of bangor like, let's go give us the money back
and we'll see what we can do. I think we
would thrive in that situation, and I would I would

(45:04):
like to play that out. But you understand, Andrew, that
is a science fiction play. That is not something that's
actually gonna happen, given what white people were actually willing
to do. I think integration is probably the best answer.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
I gotta ask you on this, and if we can
take it to the thirty thousand feet level, for some
of the more basic among us.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
I will be one of the basics.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
You know, I think that there's this remarkable conversation that's
happening right now about like.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
How we meet the moment?

Speaker 1 (45:38):
What are black people supposed to do for ourselves right now?
There's a debate about whether or not we should be
resting or working. You and you already said, like Frederick
Douglass told you, probably through this pick brother, you don't
get to be tired, right like, so we understand all
of that, but also we still get questions every week,
Ellie from somebody in our audience.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
It's like, what do we do? Where do we go
from here?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
What's next? And I know I'm gonna put you in
you and Tiff on one side of the doom spectrum
and me and Andrew on the other. But if you were
tapping into the hope that comes from the ancestors, the
work that you know that you stand on the fact,
like the bar today for me is white folks are
better better.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Off for having met me. Okay, Like I know, I
say educate, but I love it. I love it like
I should have reparations for two reasons.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Now your ass and you work my ass to death,
Like I get it, and I just would like to
ask you in this what is the thing that would
make you feel hopeful, even if you.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Don't see it right now? What is the thing?

Speaker 12 (46:44):
Like?

Speaker 3 (46:45):
We know there's bad law, where's the good law coming from? Ellie?

Speaker 1 (46:48):
We know that you know that we have to fight back,
that that is our most reasonable service. But what does
it look like to get to the point where we
can rest? What is that? What is that verse version
of America? Are you just like Jeremiah right, goddamn America?

Speaker 8 (47:04):
Like, where are we at?

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Where are we at?

Speaker 8 (47:06):
Where we at the version of America where we can rest?
I don't that that's that's too hopeful for me.

Speaker 12 (47:12):
I don't want to.

Speaker 9 (47:15):
Hear.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
I don't see the version where we can rest. And
it's partially you know again, I have children, and uh
so I want to I want to I want to
answer this question this way. So my mother was born
in nineteen fifty in Mississippi, segregated South black woman you know,
has horrible stories about having going her father. I'm a
quarter of Chinese. Her father was Chinese, and so in
the South the Chinese uh men got to be treated

(47:39):
like half white. So there were, so my mom couldn't
go to the one library in her town, but her
dad could go in. And so she's got horrible stories
about kind of waiting on the steps of the library
waiting for her dad to check out books for her
while she's sitting on the steps, and the white people
walking by here just calling her everything the son of God, saying,
you know you can't go there, you know you can't

(48:00):
go in there. She's like, I'm literally on the step right,
so that's where she starts, right, and then I show
up and I do whatever I do. I you know,
Barack Obama gets elected and she's like, we won, We won,
and she's so happy. And then we start losing, and
then we start losing and losing and losing. I can

(48:22):
see it just wearing on her face and her soul.
And she says to me, in twenty seventeen, right, so
not even the second eruption of racial violence. In twenty seventeen,
She's like, I cannot believe that my grandkids are gonna
have to fight the same battles that I fought. You

(48:44):
couldn't have told me in the sixties and the seventies
that my grandkids were gonna have to fight the same
battles that I fought as a gen X black person.
I realized that I grew up in a bubble, in
a time bubble, in a warped bubble where, for a
brief moment, this country was actually interested in moving forward,

(49:04):
This country was actually interested in integration, in justice, in fairness.
That was a bubble. That wasn't what my mom grew
up with, and it's not what my children are gonna
grow up with. Right And so when you say, like
this point where we can rest now, we can never
rest because they will always try to take it from us.
You know, one of the things that I have learned

(49:26):
for sure about white folks in this country is that
they never take a loss as a defeat. They never
take a loss as the end of the story. They
don't retreat, They reload, and they will come. If we
win a RTE today, white folks will be at the
door trying to take it away tomorrow. So there is

(49:49):
no rest, no never rest, because they will always try
to get it. That said, what would make me feel
like we are winning or that we're winning more than
we're losing. Well, first of all, you'll see why I'm
stopping for a second. A lot of these boomers are

(50:10):
gonna die soon, right, like some of this dead hand
control that we have right now, like they are dying
off at this point. My generation gen X has failed.
As a generation, gen X has failed, and we need
to own our failure. We had an opportunity to push
the ball forward as a generation. We failed. But the

(50:31):
millennials haven't failed yet. Gen Z hasn't failed yet, and
I don't think they're gonna fail, right. So what gives
me hope is when I see younger people taking up
the mantle and pushing that rock forward. And every time
I go into one of these rooms, and you know, Angela,
you you got you guys know the rooms that I'm
talking about, right, We're in rooms where really old people.

(50:55):
We're in rooms where like I'm one of the youngest
people in there, and I should not be the youngest
people in any goddamn leadership room.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Are we at the damn kids table?

Speaker 13 (51:05):
You know?

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Anyway?

Speaker 8 (51:07):
And one of the things that I say in these
rooms is that we the old heads, need to get
out the way and let the kids lead. They will
make mistakes, they will not get it entirely right, But
you know I'm a dad. I show up at the
game with orange slices, right. I don't show up in
the game to play, right. I'm not trying to score

(51:29):
the winning goal or score the time. I'm trying to
bring the kids out for pizza afterwards, right, Because I
have things now that they don't have, like a mortgage
I've gotten, right, I've got disposable income, and you know,
and if they want to access some of my wisdom
or experience while I'm funding them in whatever ways that

(51:49):
I can and helping them in whatever ways that I can,
that's great. But I don't get to lead it because
my generation had a chance to lead it and we
screwed it up. So what will give me hope and
what makes me feel better is when I see these
young people out there doing what they're doing the Justinson Tennessee, right, like, like,
those are the guys that are our future. You know,

(52:11):
we I am already part of the past, and my
charge is to simply help the younger generation fight battles
that my generation fought and lost, but my mother's generation
fought and won.

Speaker 5 (52:26):
Hmm, I got goose listening to Ellie.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
I just want they never take a loss as at
after it when we look at what's happening throughout history.
That is that's so accurate. I just want to make
a quick reference Angela. You talked about meeting the moment,
and I just want to say, Angela wrote a substack
on the five ways to meet the moment. I think
I got it right, Yes, the five ways to meet

(52:51):
the moment to meet. Yeah, so you all can subscribe
to her substack to get that. But Ellie, you are
I mean, I really got goosebumps off that. And it's
something for us all to consider that white folks never
take a loss as a defeat.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
If that is the case, then how do we move forward?

Speaker 4 (53:07):
And I would also say that Ellie is more on
the side of Angela and Andrew like you are hopeful.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
I'm hopeful about this moment.

Speaker 8 (53:15):
Oh, because we can beat them, just because because we
beat them before.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Specific Yeah, we want to know, Eli asked, and what
you talk about. Yes, tell us how we never have
to accept the losses of defeat.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Tell me that.

Speaker 8 (53:27):
Again, we don't come from a defeated people. We organize it, right,
We organized, we activate. Look, I am very focused on
the twenty twenty six primary. I don't think we're gonna
have a free and fair election all right in twenty
twenties in the near term, right, I think it's gonna
be one of those things where like Trump when he
runs again in twenty twenty eight, says I won with
nine to six percent of the vote, like he's a
war lord in you know, a country that the Avengers

(53:50):
have to go fight in Segovia or whatever. But we're
gonna have a free and fair Democratic primary in twenty
twenty six. For that's that's gonna be free, that's gonna
be fair. And that is what I'm laser focused on
because I think about the Tea Party, Right, how did
the Tea Party announce itself to the world as a
force to be reckoned with in this country by being
a Democrat?

Speaker 6 (54:11):
Nah?

Speaker 8 (54:12):
Protest Nah. They took out Eric Cant, They took out
a young, up and coming Republican leader in Virginia, and
they took him out and they lost the seat. They
put up a crazy Republican and the Republican got swamped
in Virginia, which is now pretty much a blue state.
They lost the seat, but they told other Republicans, you're

(54:34):
gonna play ball with us. The Tea Party, and we're
not doing the centrist moderate bull crap like Eric Canter.
Twenty twenty five is our opportunity to do that for
our side. Twenty twenty five is our opportunity to go
out and tell some of these Democrats you're not getting
through the primary process if you don't play to our
issues and fight the way that we know that we
need to fight, and we might lose a seat. We

(54:55):
might lose two seats right if we elect if we
primary out moderate centrists, meleiemouthed Democrats and replace them with
actual fighters. But that would be okay because that would
announce to the rest of the party coming into the
twenty twenty eight cycle. Y'all better not come weak. You
go hard in the paint, or you don't come in

(55:16):
here at all. And that is what I am focused
on right now, and it's something that I think everybody
can do right now to start to change the course
of this nation. And the other thing we say it,
people like us say it all the time, and I
just I really don't think people understand how important it
is to actually call your representatives, to actually show up

(55:41):
at their town halls and bitch and moan and scream
and bring signs and throw tomatoes and do all the
things like that actually works. Politicians generally are not the
most courageous people.

Speaker 6 (55:53):
In the world, am all right.

Speaker 8 (55:55):
They are people with their finger in the wind trying
to figure out which way it's blowing. They're people who
see a parade marching down the street and run ahead
to leave the parade because they want to be a leader,
but they're not actually leaving the movement. So when you
flood these people with your voice, with your activism, with
your energy, they listen. My dad was a local politician,

(56:19):
and lord knows, I saw him take some weird positions
when his inbox got filled up. I heard him say
some things I didn't think I was ever going to
hear him say when that answering machine couldn't accept no
more calls.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
You about all right, y'all, we gotta pay some bills.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 8 (56:45):
No.

Speaker 6 (56:45):
I said this to Angela that we were talking one weekend,
and I said, you know, you know, politicians are are
some of the most you know, sort of leaderless. They're
not the most courageous bunch. And you got silent on
the other end of the phone. And because at this
point we were talking about national politics, and I said,
we just they just they're followers in so many ways. Yes,

(57:08):
there's the there's the finger up, and then there's of
course the entrenchment of these polls. All the polls are
saying D D. And I'm like, I'm sorry, when do
we When do we stop reading the polls and start
shaping them? Isn't that's what leadership is supposed to be?
But shouldn't you be here telling me another way of thinking,
of doing, of being and see if I could subscribe

(57:32):
to that perspective, and then so doing we start to
lead and then shape how other people believe and feel
about it. Ellie, I really thought.

Speaker 8 (57:41):
On this show right now, everybody on this show right
now is one to get fired from a job. You've
been there, right, has been fired from a job, has
been has stood ten toes down, and then like, oh,
you're going to have to fire my ass because I'm
not going to do that thing you want me to do. Right,

(58:03):
That's what there are so few politicians like that. Politicians
don't want to get fired from no job. And I
do think that that is one of the that is
why they need outside pressure, because the thing that they
are scared about. I've met politicians, congress people, Senator I
think who has never been fired from a job. And
let me just tell you, if you ain't never been fired,

(58:24):
I don't trust your ass. I'm sorry. If you ain't
never been fired, I do not trust you, because that
means at some point, at some point, some boss has
been willing to say something, and you've been going to
say yes, And I'm like, no, no, no, I've been
fired for so many jobs, right, because that's the only
way I know how to beat Yeah, So sorry, I

(58:44):
cut you off, Andrew, No, because this is where the.

Speaker 6 (58:46):
Question was going for you, which is a lot of
us have seen a sort of collapse at the whole
checks and balance system, certainly as a relates to the
Congress and the executive And given your familiarity with the
courts and your your your life's work has required navigating
through them, I'm just curious whether or not you feel

(59:06):
like they're going to hold, Like, is anyone coming to
save us?

Speaker 8 (59:12):
Is anyone?

Speaker 6 (59:13):
Is it gonna be? Is the court stop qu as
obviously through the democratic process and protests, but we have
life cycles to that. It's the next election before we
know the verdict, it's the next you know, so on
and so forth. So in the meantime between time, what
do you is it fair for Is it a failed
hope for people to say this thing might get the

(59:36):
courts may catch it.

Speaker 8 (59:38):
Yeah. No, the courts are not a stop sign. It's
a they're a turnstyle, all right. The way that I've
written about this in the Nation, and I'll put it
very simply, there are things that that Donald Trump has
the physical power to do. Right. He physically controls the military,
He physically controls the paramilitary, the secret police, all of
his forces. He physically controls the money. On issues where

(01:00:01):
Donald Trump is in physical control, John Roberts will fold
like a cheap chair. He will not. John Roberts does
not want a confrontation with Donald Trump on the law
because Roberts is pretty sure that Donald Trump will ignore
a Supreme Court order and do what he wants anyway.
And there's nothing that makes the Supreme Court look worse,

(01:00:23):
there's nothing that makes it look more effeckless than having
a powerful executive ignore one of their orders. So John
Roberts will try to avoid that one on one confrontation
with Trump. With Trump, you know, courts versus the executive
And so when on issues where Trump has all of
the power, Roberts is going to cave. He'll might wag

(01:00:44):
his finger and be like, I don't like the process
you used, right, he might bump it back, remand it
they'll call it back to a lower court, basically to
give Trump a second, third, fourth bite at the apple.
That's exactly, by the way, what he did with the
Muslim band. If you remember, Trump lost the first two
Muslim bands cases, but never forever, because again, they don't retreat,
they just reload. Roberts was like, try it again, try

(01:01:06):
it again, and eventually Trump got it right and got
his Muslim band. That's how Roberts will deal with issues
where Trump has all the power. On issues where Trump
doesn't have all of the power, where he can't do
what he wants to do unless state and local officials
follow his rules, Roberts and the Supreme Court might push
back a little bit there. Right, So, I think about
some of these lawsuits against sanctuary cities, against you know,

(01:01:28):
New York State or whatever with congestion pricing, where Trump
can't force hulkl to do what Trump wants her to
do unless the Supreme Court agrees. If the Supreme Court
sides with Hchel, Hulko's gonna stand, you know, two fingers
up and be like, what come on, bro? And if
Trump wants to stop that, he's gonna have to put
troops on the GW right. So like, on those issues,

(01:01:50):
I think Roberts might stand up. But on these issues
of like can he abduct people off the street and
send them away for writing newspaper articles, Roberts is gonna
say he can. He might not say that dire, but
he's not gonna stop him. Does Trump have to turn
the planes around? You notice you noticed that Roberts went
out there and said, like, impeaching judges is bad. He
didn't say ignoring lower court orders is bad. He said,

(01:02:13):
do the appeals process, bro, who knows, maybe you'll win, sir,
That's what he said. So, no, the courts are not
coming to save us on these issues where Trump is
acting with physical military authority. The rest of the stuff
we might get to.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
So we do have a viewer question. And Andrew has.

Speaker 8 (01:02:39):
Some yes my hair is real, that's the sorry, and has.

Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
Some secret clip he wants to play. But we're gonna
do theiss.

Speaker 6 (01:02:48):
Well, no, the breaking The setup of the clip is
that the breaking news was gonna show Mike Johnson and
the Republican cloak room secret footage of how he reacted
to his his eleven Republicans bucking the system in voting
with all the Democrats.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I want to see that. I didn't see it.

Speaker 6 (01:03:06):
Yeah, secret footage. That's tomorrow, and that is it for
us today. And we will leave you with a I
can't do it, We'll do it live. Okay, we'll do
it live.

Speaker 8 (01:03:21):
Do it live.

Speaker 6 (01:03:22):
I can, I'll write it and we'll do it live.
The thing sucks.

Speaker 10 (01:03:30):
Four.

Speaker 6 (01:03:33):
That's tomorrow, and that is it for us today. I'm Bill, O'Reilly,
thanks again for watching. We'll leave you with sting and
a cut off his new album Take It Away. So yeah,
that was speaker Johnson's.

Speaker 14 (01:03:43):
Uh, I know, we'll do it.

Speaker 6 (01:03:53):
Lie all right, I'll write it myself.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
And well we have a real viewer question. I don't
know what the view is. Let's roll that with.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Andrew is a permanent troll on the podcast with something.

Speaker 15 (01:04:07):
Native Lampard is BJ Bruneius from New Orleans, Louisiana, and I'm.

Speaker 13 (01:04:10):
Gonna tell you I was triggered by.

Speaker 15 (01:04:13):
This conversation, and let me tell you why, because I
don't know no black people who identify as gay before
they identify as black.

Speaker 10 (01:04:21):
Not one.

Speaker 13 (01:04:22):
Straight people are the ones who make a big deal
out of who we go to bed with. So the
idea that we would identify first with who we sleeping with,
when who we sleeping with is is how y'all high
the lens through with y'all view us, not the lens
through what we view ourselves. So we always black first.
I got a problem with black people taking on the

(01:04:44):
views of white folk. White folk view marginalized communities gaining
aspects of equality as a zero sum game, meaning that
they got to lose something in order for other people
to gain. How did we get to a place where
black people feel the exact same way about gay people,
like for gay people to gain rights means that black

(01:05:08):
people lost something. Andrew, make that make sense to me
because I don't get it as a black man.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Where is Brunie is Brunie is on the show?

Speaker 8 (01:05:21):
Conversation?

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Excellent? This can Let's make that. Let's replay that, and
let's like that our mini pie. We know Ellie actually
has to go where.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
A little.

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
Thoughts on that because that was if.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
You guys don't mind, if we can do our ct
as for this show, and then we'll just stay and
let that be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Okay, people want to stay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I okay, okay, So do you guys have ct A
s or do we see Andrews.

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
Blow your nose on camera?

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
I told him he does it. I told him he
does this.

Speaker 8 (01:06:01):
Any you just said I do?

Speaker 6 (01:06:03):
Was the blow that I said, I don't?

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Okay, Well we have anyway, I did.

Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
Ane and I talked about this.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
I don't like when people call there a dinner napkins grow.

Speaker 8 (01:06:15):
Where are you supposed to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
The bathroom?

Speaker 8 (01:06:20):
I gonna get all the way up and go all
the way to the bathroom.

Speaker 6 (01:06:23):
Book get out of here. Maybe that out of be
the many no no, you little tissue boxes way way
answer that the bathroom always bat that is not at table.

Speaker 8 (01:06:44):
I got, I got ishoe boxes.

Speaker 6 (01:06:46):
I go tissues and win just in everything, Angela, keep living.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Okay, living my mom, Okay, my c I'll be quick.
I got any quick ones. Yes, my c t A is,
please do not blow your nose at a dinner table
like that is like we even go if I do
want to vomit, if I hear somebody clearing their nostrils
while I'm eating, I don't like it. And to my
second CTA is just for Ellie who wrote this brilliant book,

(01:07:15):
and I hope everybody buys bad laws and popular laws
that are ruining America. While Angela and Andrew are giving
their CTAs, I would like to request of you. You
mentioned that you have two kids, but you actually have three,
and I think our viewers, I know the listeners won't
be able to, but.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
Our viewers would like to see your youngest.

Speaker 6 (01:07:32):
One to see please.

Speaker 5 (01:07:34):
I saw him in the beginning of the show.

Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
It's Cassandra hert Thank you, Andrew, and I do know
that she is not schizophrenic.

Speaker 5 (01:07:43):
So Cassandra, oh my.

Speaker 12 (01:07:47):
God, not not a cad again, like, why are we here?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
You got Helly? Calm down? This is Elly's this.

Speaker 8 (01:08:08):
Is what this is my animal, you know, because the
thing about dogs that are really awesome is that, sorry,
the thing about dogs that are so awesome is that
they don't give a ship I come home. She doesn't.
She's not like, oh my god, did you see what
Trump did? She doesn't care.

Speaker 6 (01:08:22):
Oh my god, how long have you been gone?

Speaker 8 (01:08:25):
Do you have any food? That's what I would like to.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Know, rub my belly.

Speaker 8 (01:08:31):
Can I do a call to action besides please God?
So obviously first, like by my buckets, also available on
ad on Audible in case you like to hear me
screaming at you. But the second call is absolutely, especially
based on the conversation that we've had today. Don't give up.
Don't give up these people historic I say all the time,

(01:08:54):
we are living in a fascist state. But let's remember,
fascist state don't last very long because they always overplay
their hand. They always always overplay their hand. So don't
give up right now, don't don't turn in, turnout, and
and that's how we're gonna get through it.

Speaker 16 (01:09:17):
Andrew, No, I mean a salute, by the way, to
all those voters who came out in this last week
and show their might, their power, their strength, because we're
also beating back the.

Speaker 6 (01:09:28):
Other side by winning at the ballot box and in
places where we have an outright one. We have shrunk
the margins in the very least by one half of
what they were previously in support of the of the
Republican Party. So day after day, you know, act after act,
step after step, we're shredding.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Them I'm gonna take from Ellie tiff is normally our
resident plagiarist.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
But I'm going to do that today.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
They never take a loss as a defeat, and I
love that so much because I do think that that
can become our own mantra, that we never have to
take a loss as a defeat. We may lose the
battle today, but we can certainly still win the war.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
And on that we have launched the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
State of the People Power Tour, we hope that you
all will consider joining us. I'm going to ask my
podcast co host to go on the road with us
and see if we can't do some shows while we're
moving around encouraging people and being in solidarity with other podcasts.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
We can have a coalition based podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
But we want to make sure no matter what we're doing,
that we are finding our hands to do something. We
were on the Win with Black Women Call on Sunday
and Dwana Thompson, who runs Woke Vote, was saying how
after the election something broken her. And she was saying
how being together and working on this project, the Power Tour,

(01:10:51):
which launches in Atlanta on April twenty sixth, has reignited
something in her and I got to tell you all
there being lolo or talking to each other all the
time about go to.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Bed, you go to bed, you go to bed, you
go to bed, you gotta go to bed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
But we are energized by what's happening, and there's something
about not giving up in this moment that does feel
spiritual lity. And so I'm so grateful that you said
that that we get to stand on the shoulders of
our ancestors who never gave up because they believed in
a better future for all of us. So I would
just admonish all of you to sign up to lean

(01:11:27):
into volunteer. We have some incredible listeners and viewers on
this podcast. Supporters, please tell us what we're missing. Tell
us about that workshop that you know you could run
in any one of these ten cities. Sign up on
State of the People at STATEOFTHEPPL dot com. Native Lampad
will be present. We can't help but to show up,
and so we ask that you all show up with us.

(01:11:48):
Elie O'll be there too. We'll have him yelling on
the stage somewhere maybe in a few places, and he'll
be slaying these books.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Y'all, So make sure you come out show up.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Remember to tune in wherever you get your podcast we
are available. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube at
Native lampod so that you can become you know, maybe
one hundred.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
And first thousand subscriber.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Listen, and so we just want to make sure that
we stay in lockstep with you. If there's something you
want us to talk about, drop us a line. If
you want us to hear your comments or your questions.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Send him in.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Also, y'all, we had an amazing question from Bruni as
who I was like, as soon as he started talking,
I was like, oh, he my cousin. He's a light
skinned black man from New Orleans. We're gonna run that
thing back in a podcast that Ellie even has to
sit in.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Elle gotta go, and he's staying for this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
So we're gonna run that question in our next podcast
on why do we move like white people?

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Y'all, we know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Better than this, But before we get there, As always,
we want to remind everyone to leave us a review
and subscribe to Native Land Pod.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
We're available on all platforms and YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
New episodes drop Thursday and Friday, with solo pods Monday
and Tuesday. If you want more, check Out's Politics and
Off the Cup the other shows on Reason Choice Media network,
and don't forget to follow us on social media and
subscribe to our text or email list on our website
Native lampod dot com. We are Angela Rae, Tiffany Cross,
Andrew Gilliam. Thank you Ellie Misstal for joining us today.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
There are five.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Hundred and seventy nine entire days until midterm elections and
hopefully we'll be able to vote until next time.

Speaker 12 (01:13:18):
Welcome home, y'all, wet them home.

Speaker 13 (01:13:21):
Morning.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Please, Thank you for joining the Natives. Attention to what
the info and all of the latest rock gulum and
cross connected to the statements that you leave on our socials.
Thank you sincerely for the patients reason for your choice
is cleared. So grateful it took the execute roads. Thank
you for serve, defend and protect the truth, even if paint.

Speaker 6 (01:13:40):
We're going walking home to all of the Natives.

Speaker 7 (01:13:42):
We thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Reason Choice. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Tiffany Cross

Andrew Gillum

Angela Rye

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