July 12, 2024 • 61 mins
On this episode of NBA DNA, Hannah dives into the first dynasty of the new millennium, the Shaq/Kobe Los Angeles Lakers of the early 2000s. Lakers owner and President Jeanie Buss, and seven-time NBA champion Robert Horry join the show to discuss the team’s iconic three-peat, the secret behind Phil Jackson’s success, and what Shaq and Kobe’s teammates wish you knew about their relationship.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
September twentieth, nineteen seventy three, twenty nine year old Billy
gene Kinks steps onto the court at Houston's Astrodome. She
has been one of the world's best tennis players for
more than a decade. The year before, she became the
fifth woman in history to win a career Grand Slam.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's a fact, isn't it that if they were both males,
Billy Jean ding, We're a male.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
She actually excels over Rigs in such manners.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Per opponent in the Battle of the Sexist is fifty
five year old Bobby Riggs, who in nineteen thirty nine,
four years before Billy Jean was born, was the number
one player in the world. Now he's working as a
tennis promoter and making headlines for calling the women's game inferior.
His latest claim is that he could be any woman
(00:53):
in the world.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
This is the scene in the Astrodome.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I'm down to the floor of the Astrodome with a
couple of great champions who are here to to happening.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The lead up to the match is a spectacle. King
enters the court Cleopatra style, carried by four shirtless men.
She gives Riggs a piglet to symbolize as male chauvinism.
Ninety million people are watching from home, including Los Angeles
businessman Jerry Buss and his eleven year old daughter, Jeanie.
(01:23):
As history has documented, Billy Jean dominated the match and
became an enduring force for equality. A year later, founding
World Team Tennis, a freewheeling mixed gender league that featured
some of the greatest players in the world.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Zins God's Tide her Ring another golden momment from Wimbledy.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
World Team Tennis was all about in arena entertainment, and
doctor Jerry Bus, who was itching to buy a professional
sports team, became one of the league's first owners, of
the La Strings in nineteen seventy four. Bus was a
chemist with a seriously lucrative real estate business, best known,
(02:16):
of course, for later buying the Lakers.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
The World Trophy to the owner of the Los Angeles Lakers,
the new World Champions of Basketball, and I'm proud to
do it.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
And here you go, Jerry Buss, it's yours.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
That didn't happen for another five years. Meanwhile, doctor Buss
was determined to bring his daughter into the male dominated
world of sports business. He brought Genie to team meetings
and when she was nineteen and a student at USC
BUS made her general manager of the La Strings.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
When he offered me the job, I was still in school.
I said this great, I can quit school and just
focus on my job, and he was, you know, very much,
you could have the job as long as you go
to school. So that made it difficult because I was
balancing schoolwork and my social life and trying to run
(03:14):
a tennis team. You know, he saw something in me
that I had the ambition to do that, in the discipline,
to be able to schedule and do things so that
I could accomplish, you know, meet the requirements of my.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Job and World Team Centis was so crazy. That was
like a really fun, relegably great idea. Do you remember
like an early accomplishment that you had, whether it was
a player or promotion or anything like that where you
just felt like I did a really good job that
worked out really well.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
You know, we were really fortunate that Martina Navrachulova was
available to play, and so she was, you know, the
first player I drafted the LA Strings, and you know
she was it was as she was making her way
up to being the number one player in the world.
Speaker 8 (04:10):
We'll see Martinez looking for this forehand to come up
the line.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
Now, watch if she comes to the SA.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
And she loved World Team Tennis and she loved the
camaraderie of being with a team. So I think that
was really something special, was having that opportunity to really
get to know a superstar on their ascent. And we
won a championship that year.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The Bus family was all about championships. That became the
family business. In nineteen seventy nine, doctor Buss purchased the
Los Angeles Lakers, the La Kings, the Great Western Forum,
and a thirteen hundred acre ranch from Jack Ted Cook.
The total sixty seven and a half million dollars. Jeannie
(04:59):
was named president of the Great Western Forum.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
You know, it was such a great experience for me
because I had always been the promoter of events. So
promoters the one that puts together the event, the activity,
the show, and they put it into your venue. Now,
as the head of the arena, I got a different
(05:24):
view of what it was like for a promoter to
come into a venue and what a venue needed in
order to support the show or the event.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Doctor Buss transformed the Lakers into showtime entertainment worthy of
Tinseltown THEA From nineteen eighty to eighty nine, the Lakers
won five titles in eight trips to the NBA Finals,
establishing expectations that still exist and which Genie inherited when
(06:02):
she took over the team.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Well, you know, you just look at timing, you know,
and some things are just luck. My dad drafting Magic Johnson,
somebody that could, you know, light the show on fire
with his smile.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
This man has a smile that lights up a television
screen from here, the bangor Maid.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
He was just one of those great personalities and great
basketball players. So, you know, winning the championship. But I
also like to underline the fact that during the eighties,
we you know, we had the Rams and the Raiders
here in Los Angeles, and eventually both teams moved out.
(06:50):
So there was a twenty year period where in a
major league city, we had no NFL to compete with,
and that further cemented the Lakers just being a team
from Los Angeles representing Los Angeles the Magic Man.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
What's more, the showtime Lakers, as you said, really put
you guys on the map and made Los Angeles a
championship city. What sort of pressure was there to maintain
or get back to that standard when you took over
the Lakers.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Well, you know, there's there's the standard, and then there's
the Purple and Gold standard, and you know that's you know,
it's hard to compete with your past success. Our fans
expect nothing but the best, and that's what makes them
the best fans in the NBA. So there's a lot
of pressure to win in Los Angeles. You know, by design,
(07:50):
the NBA has, you know, through a salarycap system, a
revenue sharing system. You know, they're trying to even play
field and create more parody. It's just that much harder
for any one team to dominate.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
It's a different environment than you know, when my dad
started in the eighties, when there was no salary cap.
Every time Larry Bird got a new contract, my dad
would call Magic and rip up the old one and
give him a new one. You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 9 (08:24):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
My dad always wanted Magic to be the highest paid player,
and you could do that because there weren't the same
rules that are in place now.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
But a decade of dominance in the eighties was followed
by a decade of disappointment in the nineties, the Lakers
were in rebuild mode. They built a solid cast Eddie Jones,
Robert Ory, Glenn, Rice, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, and as
for the stars LA had come to expect. Twenty four
(09:01):
year old Chiquill O'Neal was acquired from the Orlando Magic
in nineteen ninety six. Second and nineteen year old Kobe
Bryant came into the NBA that same year, straight out
of high school.
Speaker 10 (09:17):
The Charlotte Hornets select Kobe Bryant from Lower Merion High
School in.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Pennsylvan acquired by the Lakers in a draft day trade
with the Charlotte Hornets. It is a step off from
high school, and I understand that.
Speaker 11 (09:30):
So therefore, every time I step on a basketball court,
I'm going to put a strong effort out there on
the floor.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
I'm not going to leave anything on the floor.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But the Shack and Kobe show was not an immediate
Hollywood hit.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
These Spurns has a better individual talent than the Lakers,
but I am going to say they have.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
A better team.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
A four game suite by the Utah Jazz in the
nineteen ninety eight Western Conference Finals exposed the Lakers team
that had a lot of growing to do.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Total domination by the experienced Utah Jazz against the youthful Talada.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Los Angeles Lakers, and so in nineteen ninety nine, Doctor
Buss looked to the most successful coach of the era
to bring it all together.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Without feather Ado, the new coach at the Los Angeles Lakers,
Phil Jackson.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
From the NBA and iHeart podcast This is NBA DNA
with Me Hannah Storm, Episode nine, The Lake Show, January thirteenth,
(10:45):
nineteen ninety nine, Chicago, Illinois, Credentialed members of the media
assemble on the floor of the United Center for a
press conference with Michael Jordan.
Speaker 7 (10:57):
For the second time in little more than five years.
Speaker 12 (10:59):
Michael Jordan is choosing to walk away from the NBA.
Now it looks like he's gonna be walking away for good.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Only six months earlier, Jordan led the Bulls to their
six NBA championship under head coach Phil Jackson.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
My Everybody, Hannah Store back here in Chicago. In the
past decade, the Chicago Bulls have forged one of sports
from great dynasties. Five NBA titles in the last seven
years and now just one went away from a six championship.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Mj had won the league MVP and Defensive Player of
the Year, famously ending his Bulls career with the last
second dagger to sink the Utah Jazz for a six
rings and second three people.
Speaker 8 (11:39):
In ship number six Michael against Russell twelve seconds eleven
ten Jordan a dry.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Hain't fire y hey scars.
Speaker 10 (11:51):
Football's late eighty seven eighty six work five at two
tats lap oh.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Why it was the end of an era. That same
month that Jordan retired, the Bulls traded Scottie Pippen. The
preeminent dynasty of the nineties was over. Did Michael Jordan
know that you had no intention of attorney?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, Yeah, he pretty much knew it. You know, we
talked tremendous amount of time throughout the season, and we
sort of had that vibe, the feeling after the season
that you know, it was pretty much our last time together.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Phil Jackson had been the first Domino general manager. Jerry
Krause made it clear that Jackson's contract would not be renewed,
and after the finals, he left the franchise, literally riding
off into the sunset on his motorcycle.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Hebe on the moat loud Girl now Hobby Bryant working
in the light.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And meanwhile, the Lakers had one of the most promising
tandems in the NBA, Shaquille O'Neill and Kobe Bryant, but
they have been swept out of the playoffs for two
years in a row. Doctor Buss bequeathed the running of
(13:09):
the franchise to his daughter, Jeanie. Can you paint the
picture of when you were promoted to executive vice president
in nineteen ninety nine, what the state of the franchise was,
you know, what you were stepping into and taking over.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
You know, Shaq Shaquille O'Neill had joined the Lakers as
a free agent in ninety six. Kobe Bryant was drafted
by Jerry West in nineteen ninety six. You know, we
had a couple of years with these two very well
established shack and this young rookie who won the Slam
(13:45):
Dunk contest his rookie year, and my dad, you know,
was getting frustrated. He wanted to win, and he decided
to make a change and bring in a new coach.
And the coach that he hired was Phil Jackson. And
my reaction was, are you sure that's a good idea
(14:07):
given the fact he's kind of a big personality. You've
already got a really big personality in Shack, a really
big personality in Kobe. And he said, you know, he's
got an offensive system that I really want the Lakers
to run. And that was the Triangle and Phil Jackson
took the job, and of course I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
It was a high stakes time for the Lakers. New coach,
new system, new season, new venue. That same year that
Phil started with the Lakers, they moved from the Great
Western Forum to the Staples Center in downtown La.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Our fans did not We're not excited about it at all.
They'd been used to going to Inglewood for you know,
forty years to see their team, and there was a
lot of people stressed out. And you know, I remember
getting phone calls from fans saying, I want the same
seat that I have at the Forum, and I said, well,
(15:06):
you can have your seat that's at the Forum, but
the Lakers aren't going to be there down to see them.
And you know, the best thing that happened was we
won a championship that first year. Because people were concerned, like,
are we giving away our mojo or advantage everything that
(15:26):
the forum meant to our history.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
The jess Rose and Miller even whydn't look well, we
don't run around on the defense too much.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
BUS made Jackson one of the highest paid coaches in
the league, thirty million over five years, and he brought
his zim master holistic approach to LA from burning sage
in the locker room to giving his players summer reading assignments.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
I thought he was a hippie dude. I mean I
didn't know, like you know, it was he married, Did
he have a family. I had no idea. I really
didn't pay that much attention except I remembered when he
left the Bulls, which was, you know, now we've we've
watched we've all watched the Last Dance documentary, which then
(16:22):
kind of tells that whole story of the Bulls had
decided Phil, this is your last year. You're not coming back.
And so when that season was over and they win
the championship and he's lighting the cigar like he always did,
they showed him riding a motorcycle from the practice facility
(16:44):
like he was going off into the sunset like, Oh
my gosh, he's just such drama, you know, And I'm like, oh,
is this really going to play here in la And
were used to like Pat Riley and you know, and
Phil's more of a like, you know, free spirit, and
Pat was like Armani suits, so oh yeah, very buttoned off,
(17:09):
very slick, very like contained, totally different, very different. So
I mean, I'm glad my dad didn't listen to me.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Why do you think that, looking back, that Phil Jackson
was the right person to bring, as you said, these
really big personalities together and mold them into a unit.
Why do you think that was so successful as you
look back.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
On it, You know, it was really about getting them
on the same page. Shack wanted to win. He was
tired of being labeled the superstar who couldn't push the
team over the edge to win the championship. And then
you had Kobe, who was a student of the game,
(17:52):
and you know, here was this opportunity because he had
studied Michael Jordan so much. Here now to have the
same teachers as someone he idolized so much kind of unlocked,
you know, so much potential in his brain. And you know,
(18:13):
Phil was the eager teacher the first time you met
my dad. He asked, my dad, you know, why do
you want me to come coach your team? And my
dad said, well, I'm giving you a five year deal,
and I expect you to win a championship. I'm tired
of losing. And Phil was, you know, why wouldn't you
want me to win five? You know that's the way. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
In his first Lakers press conference, Phil promised to help
Shack move into a leadership role, and he called Kobe Jordanes.
Balancing the two personalities would become essential to the team's success,
and Jeanie leaned on her experience from her earliest days
as a sports executive.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Luckily, you know, in my earlier career, I you know,
not only had promoted World Team tennis the LA Strings,
but also promoted championship type matches in exhibitions. So you know,
we would have Yvonne Lendall play Andre Agascy, Jimmy Connors,
(19:20):
John McEnroe. And the most difficult match that we ever
had to make was Jimmy Connors versus John McEnroe because
they never wanted to have to play each other. They
did not vibe. Okay, it was like having to convince
each one of them that they were my favorite. Jimmy,
(19:45):
you're my favorite, you know, like we got to bring
John in and then John, I know how you feel
about Jimmy, but like, you know, and it was just
really because you know, when they had to play each
other in a tournament, they didn't want either one of
them to have the edge over the other. So whoever
won this exhibition might mentally it may carry over into
(20:09):
the US Open finals. And so now you fast forward
to Shaquille O'Neill and Kobe Bryant. I loved both of them,
but you know, they were competitive for attention. Whose team
is this? And so you know, just walking that fine
line of you're my favorite, no, you're and you know,
(20:35):
really the main thing was there was room enough for both.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
On the court. It was critical for Jackson to get
buy in for his triangle offense, but Kobe thought it
was limiting for his game.
Speaker 13 (20:53):
There were some personal goals that were standing in front
of the group goals, and that all had to be
kind of figured out. It was a situation which you know,
I was asking them to kind of fit into roles
and demanded the team to play more unselfish basketball.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Phil brought in someone familiar with the triangle, a guy
who had played for him in Chicago, John Sally.
Speaker 14 (21:17):
I thought, in order to work in California, you have
to play for the Lakers. So one day was watching.
It was nineteen ninety nine. I never forget it was
the shortened season. I was watching the Lakers and they
were losing. I think they lost in the first round
of the playoffs. And they had Shaq and Kobe and
JL Reed and Dennis Rodman and all these people, and
(21:40):
something made me pick up the phone and call Phil Jackson,
and he goes, what's up long to all of them,
and I said, you're not going to let these guys
not win a championship party. I said, come on, I
left five doors from Shack. I know Kobe, we can talk.
They need the system. People don't realize it's the system.
So when I got on the Laker I was a
(22:01):
glorified coach in the player's uniform.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Here's Robert or on the change with Jackson at the helm.
When he came to the Lakers. What did he bring
to that equation? Like, how did he make it all work?
Speaker 15 (22:14):
Stability? You know, here's the thing. Stability and direction. We
had four All Stars the previous year, Eddie Jones, Kobe,
Shaq Nick four All Stars getting swept by Utah. So
you have to think about the stabilion. And also when
you bring in someone like a Phil Jackson, who's coach
the greatest, and Michael Jordan, you're gonna bring in that discipline.
(22:36):
You know, Shaq was very disciplined that summer. I even
put on like five pounds ten pounds a muscle going
into that season. Kobe came in like bigger. We all
came in physically ready to start that training camp because
you know what to expect when you've been under the
coach for two or three years, you know how to train.
We had no idea what fields training camps were.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Going to be.
Speaker 15 (22:57):
We were going to run a lot, we were going
to run the triangle each and every day until we
got it. So everybody came in shape and and ready.
And I think that was the biggest key, because Shaq
started a season off just so dominant, you know, because
first no.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
Kobe got Hurt's right. We just rove Shack's coattails to
the best record in the NBA that year.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
Fox Waits'neil's a paint jumps, ry stars and pay beautiful
deliberty by Shaquillo mew.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
In nineteen ninety nine, Phil's first year with the Lakers,
they went sixty seven and fifteen, and Shaq became the
NBA MVP.
Speaker 10 (23:36):
Number one in scoring, number two and rebounds number three,
in block shots four as since the game almost and
only three people played more minutes as you were leading
your team to sixty seven victoriation.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
It's a pleasure to watch you grow. Congratulations, nineteen ninety nine, two.
Speaker 10 (23:55):
Thousand, NBA MVP, Shaquille.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
It was fun.
Speaker 15 (24:02):
And you've never played with a dominant big man. You
don't understand how fun it is. Just look at the
Denver Nuggets. They know how fun it is. And it's
so fun to play with a dominant big man who
demands a double team, who can pass, and who allows
you to press up defensively on the perimeter and funnel
guys him so he can block shot. But you think
(24:26):
about what Shaq demanded when he was playing double teams.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Hack of Shock. It was so much fun playing with Shaq.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
A perfect ash from Toby Bryant, great execution by Shock.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Young Kobe began to blossom under Jackson averaging twenty nine
points and five assists of games, and he was named
to the NBA's All Defensive Second Team. Here's Phil reflecting
on that first year, courtesy of ESPN.
Speaker 9 (25:04):
Tolb me a nice struggle a lot the first year.
It was I will tell you, like looking at Michael
Jordan and come fly with me or whatever that video was.
He had everything all in markings. The way he posed,
the way he held himself, it was almost amazing. And
there were times I would pull him to the sideline
(25:26):
and say, don't try to take over this game. It's
not time. Don't try to take over this game. But
he was dying to do so, and he was ready
to do so.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
In the air up the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
The Lakers moved quickly through the first few rounds of
the playoffs, beating the Sacramento Kings and Phoenix Suns in
five games each.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Kneel against devots.
Speaker 12 (26:03):
You love the playoffs because of star players come to
the front.
Speaker 14 (26:07):
That's what this is all about.
Speaker 8 (26:08):
Kobe Spina left breasfe shine under patrol of them.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You had championship experience. Did you ever speak up about
that or what was it that you brought to the
table because you you already had two titles.
Speaker 15 (26:23):
Yeah, I didn't have to say anything because we had
a coach who had six titles. And so for me,
sometimes there is a player when you're sitting on the
bus and guys would talk.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
You know, Kobe will always ask.
Speaker 15 (26:33):
Me about dreams, footwork, and he would ask me about
you know, Clyde's you know, his ability to get out
on the break and certain little things like that. But
he never asked about, you know, how it is to
win a championship. I never really had to, you know,
say anything, because Phil was the one like, hey, this
is what we need to do, this is what we
have to do, and think about it. Like I said,
(26:54):
he coached Max Michael Jordan. When this guy talks, everybody's
gonna be listening.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Jackson led the franchise back to the NBA Finals to
face the Indiana Pacers led by future Hall of Famer
Reggie Miller and old Lakers nemesis head coach Larry Bird.
Hoosiers versus Hollywood.
Speaker 11 (27:18):
Ladies and gentlemen are very pleasant.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Good evening to you from the beautiful Staples Center, Los Angeles, California.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Tonight, the real season begins.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
The Lakers came out hot, dominating Game one, shooting fifteen
for twenty. In the first quarter of the Finals, O'Neil.
Speaker 8 (27:33):
Puts it down and it's eleven first quarter points.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
He's on his way to a forty point night.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
In Game two, Kobe sprained his ankle during a Lakers win.
The Pacers took Game three and the Lakers game four
in over time.
Speaker 10 (27:49):
Your turn, mister Bryants, What if you got for us
this time?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Kobe? Pull up tony two.
Speaker 8 (27:54):
Yes, if you want to be a hero, you gotta
take her shots.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Thanks to a heroic performance by a still recovering Kobe
and a missed buzzer beater by Indiana's Reggie Miller.
Speaker 8 (28:08):
Oh, and that's it, the Lakers take a three one
series lead.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That says one for the Then the Pacers crushed the
Lakers at home in Game five.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
That's still handling on top, waits for putting. Reggie Millard steps.
Speaker 13 (28:24):
Inside off of facing shot.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yes, nails the three ball for the left corner.
Speaker 13 (28:30):
I don't like to think of a team that has
championship quality in it that loses by thirty three points.
And you know, we have to prove something to ourselves
when we go back home.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
In this regard, there was always this calmness, you know,
and it was very deliberate by Phil to never let
the players see you sweat, right, So he always stayed
calm so that the players could always have a place
to check in and check into that calmness. And there
(29:04):
was something about watching those teams you just never doubted
that they were going to pull a rabbit out of their.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Hat, both teams battling for their collective lives.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Fox waits for Shaq. He doesn't come so far.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
The Lakers gave Hollywood the ending they had wanted since
nineteen eighty eight, a championship, beating the Pacers one sixteen
to one eleven. Shaq had forty one points and twelve
rebounds and was named Finals MVP.
Speaker 10 (29:46):
Congratulations to the NBA two thousand.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
Champions, Los Angeles Lakers, their fans in the city.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I'm not wanting to y'all.
Speaker 8 (30:03):
We're gonna be.
Speaker 16 (30:03):
One next year.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
To y'all.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
The Bus family envisioned the first dynasty of the New millennium,
picking up where the Bulls and MJ had left off.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
What a steal by Kobe going on the runway.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
That is where you do the comparisons to the Jordan
here's John Sally.
Speaker 14 (30:31):
I told Michael he's tied soap detergent and Kobe is
tied point two or ever grief when he did nothing
when I got on the Lakers too, he watched tons
of films.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
He's so serious.
Speaker 14 (30:46):
He watched tons of film.
Speaker 9 (30:49):
Didn't you know.
Speaker 14 (30:50):
He couldn't go out, so he couldn't hang out. So
he was just imagined, not worrying about anything and just
playing basketball. The blessing was he came in so early.
He had a father who played in the Pros. His
mother is a wonderful woman. His sisters were like he
had an unbelievable support. Like I tell people, when Kobe
(31:12):
came into the NBA.
Speaker 7 (31:13):
He lived at home with his parents.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's right.
Speaker 14 (31:16):
But Jerry West saw the same thing I saw when
I got to him. It was it's a fire that
I have not seen anywhere else. Kobe was like that.
We ran sprints. He ran him. He didn't jog him
when he took his shots. Same feeling, the tenacious idea
of this guy's in front of me. I had to
(31:36):
move the ball here. That was all in his brain.
I'm going to be I mean, I asked him too
one time. I said, so, you're the next Michael Jordan.
He said, no, I'm the first Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Here's Phil Jackson.
Speaker 9 (31:51):
I arranged a meeting between Michael and Kobe two give
him a little impression of how to handle the in
a restricted basketball system that relied on passing the ball
to available teammates and wanting to go one on one
with this guy in front of you. So I arranged
(32:14):
we had a little meeting in the cigar room off
the bar downstairs, and Michael and I were sitting there
and Kobe walked in after a shower and the press
and went on, and he sat down and he said, Michael,
I can take you one on one. And Michael said, well,
(32:39):
I think you might. I'm thirty seven or twenty two, right,
But that was part of his growing up years, and
his teammates would come to me and say, you know,
Kobe never goes out with us. He's always in his room,
he's watching tape, he's doing this and that, but he's
not really associating with us. And so I pulled him
aside and I said, you want to be to the
(33:00):
team someday, don't you? And he said, oh, I should
be captain. Now, I said, Gobe, you don't associate with
your teammates. Here's separate the part. Well, they think about
the girls and hubcaps and cars and whatever. I'm watching
the game. It's a serious business for me. And that
was how he was.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
It was serious business and defending the title. Point Guard
Derek Fisher missed the first sixty two games of the
season due to a foot injury. And then there was
Kobe and Shaq both speaking openly about each other in
the media, and a loss to the Golden State Warriors
in December of two thousand. Kobe scored fifty one points,
but took too many ill advised shots down the.
Speaker 13 (33:41):
Stretch, and it kind of exacerbated the situation we were
in that, you know, he was trying to win it
all by himself a lot of nights.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
By January, after a twenty three point loss to the Clippers,
the team's frustrations had reached new heights. Here's Shaq.
Speaker 11 (34:01):
I've never been the one to get into whose team
it is, who's this, and who's that. But when it was,
when everything went through me, the outcome was good. It
was sixty seven and fifteen playing with enthusiasm.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Shaq was a showman just as he is today, a
pitch man extraordinary, a star on screen and a rapper.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
For all my friends in the media who like quotes,
mark this quote down. From this day on, I would
like to be known as the Big Aristotle.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
But one could argue Kobe may have been a bit
more like Aristotle with a cerebral approach to basketball as
he developed his own philosophy.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Phil had the way of breaking through, and he didn't
treat everybody the same. He knew how to talk to
each person. And you know, remember him telling me that,
you know, Jeanie, at some point Kobe will rebel against me.
(35:08):
And I said, no, he loves you. Are you kidding?
But you guys are winning? But and he goes, no,
it's just it's just that's just the way it's human nature.
I'm an authority figure. You know, as somebody comes of age,
then they challenge, you know, what was there before so
that they can establish their identity. And you know, I
(35:29):
mean Phil the psychology of it all, and of course
we all know that that's kind of what happened. You know,
what do they what's the old say? Like when the
students already the teacher will come, and they will and
Phill was the teacher.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Here's Derek Fisher.
Speaker 17 (35:48):
The things going on, I guess with Kobe and Shack
were well documented, but it was too much focus put
on that, and I think, you know, for a lot
of us as members of the team, you know, we
kind of stepped back and also started attention to that
a lot instead of really being held accountable for what
we could do to help the team.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
In March, Kobe suffered an injury that kept him out
of the lineup for nine games. It turned out to
be the reset everyone needed during the.
Speaker 13 (36:14):
Period of time that Kobe set out. We had to
change our style back to where Shaq had the dominant
space on the floor, and once we got to that,
we executed very well. And I think that when Kobe
came back, it was really his impression that I'm going
to come back and I'm going to make this transition
into this team.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I was underneath of the baseline with Kobe n figuring
far and I'm selfish played by Kobe.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
The Lakers turned a corner and won their final eight
regular season games, beating the Sacramento Kings to take the
division titles.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
It again, O'Neil once again to Quidy two points, and
then a.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Better guard Kobe.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
The cacular Shocky Corby, and then they took off.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
I mean they only lost one game in the entire playoffs.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I mean that's regarded as one of the best all time.
Do you remember about that finals run? Why was that
team just so dominant?
Speaker 5 (37:13):
You know it was it was about everybody finding their
space in the triangle, trusting in each other, and then
that just familiarity of having a core group of guys return,
you know, they don't have to go through a learning
process again, you know, and it was only going to
(37:34):
get better now. Nobody could predict that the kind of
run that they went on. It was a lot of.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
The posterized so long.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
The Lakers sweat the Western Conference playoffs, first the Trailblazers,
who had taken them to a game seven the year before.
Then the Sacramento.
Speaker 16 (38:01):
Man slam Dollar, who one of a friend you absolutely
have to love what your cheek.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And finally the top seeded San Antonio.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Spurs comes outside to Bryant.
Speaker 8 (38:14):
He's hoping he shoots for three good over Bryant, connecting
they have dealt a severe and perhaps fatal balls of
a Spurs championship hulks man.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Kobe dropped seventy three points in games one and two
on the road, earning high praise from Shack.
Speaker 11 (38:35):
I told Kobe today he was my idols play. No,
I'm sure he's playing phenomenal. I mean, I don't know
what else to say. I think he's the best player.
Speaker 7 (38:46):
In the league.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
The Lakers wrapped it up in Game four at Staples.
Shaq finished with twenty six points and ten rebounds. Kobe
had twenty four points and eleven assists. I didn't even
imagine how you look back on that time, like what
what did you think and feel that your most important
contribution was during that time, because that's just that was
(39:11):
just iconic.
Speaker 7 (39:12):
That run.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
Whatever my dad needed, He'd tell me what he wanted
and I'd go execute. Like that's just that's just how
we worked. And as you know, the significant other of
the coach, I felt a little bit like I was
like Mama bear, you know, like this was I'm the
like team mom in a way, and so however I
(39:37):
could be however I could funnel information to Phil through
the wives, you know, if one family was struggling, because
you know, the kid's not sleeping at night. You know,
I'd make sure phil would get that information. It was
kind of like a wheel that, you know, everything kind
(39:57):
of fed off of each other in and it was
a cohesive unit.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
The lakers perfect playoff run would come to a screeching
halt in Game one of the NBA Finals. The Philadelphia
seventy six Ers, led by league MVP Allen Iverson, had
come to play, backed up by.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Iverson down the floor.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
He goes against O'Neil Allen by the big man Scoop
lap As Good and.
Speaker 8 (40:21):
The Lakers are being humiliated here at this point of
the ballgame, this.
Speaker 12 (40:26):
Is not going the way Los Angeles and its fans.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Iverson was unstoppable, scoring forty eight points. The Lakers lost
in overtime at home, one oh seven to one oh one.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
Shot blocked down to three.
Speaker 15 (40:41):
Snow with the ball.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
He's gonna have to do it himself.
Speaker 15 (40:42):
Back go to Allen.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
He comes out the right side baseline paint open. Good.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
What an incredible shot by Iverson, spinning like a top
through the paint.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
The Lakers responded with two straight wins, taking control of
the series with an end of game dagger in Game
three by big shot Rocks Robert or Oi'll.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Take a.
Speaker 16 (41:03):
Running away in the face of Philadelphia nails the three
ball for the left corner of Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I mean Magic's called you, which rightfully so one of
the greatest clutch players in history. In Game three in
the finals against Philly, I mean, this series is tied.
You know, you hit this three pointer with forty seven
seconds left and then you hit a free throw and
you guys win the game. What do you remember about that?
Speaker 15 (41:29):
In particular, I remember me running to the corner. I
was feeling and I think what people don't understand about
when you are who you are. What I mean by
that not not the upper echelon players who get plays
right for them. You might be shooting the ball pretty good,
but you might not get it again because the ball
is going through Shaq, going through Kobe.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
And that's one thing I love about b Shaw.
Speaker 15 (41:52):
B Shaw is I'm gonna go to the hot guy,
and he knew I had been shooting the ball pretty good,
so he came to me in the corner, and instead
of me looking for anybody, I took the shot from
the corner to put us well, to put us up
and I remember fans yelling behind you know what, Philly
fans are saying outrageous stuff, and I never respond to anybody.
(42:12):
But after I made that shot, I look at the
guy and I say some things I know I shouldn't
have said, like shut the f up.
Speaker 16 (42:22):
I couldn't help because the Philly fans, they just get
under you. Sometimes when you do something spectacular, you got
to say it. And plus I'm the type of person
I'm not gonna say nothing doing the game, but I
will say something at the end of the game when
I know he got in at hand, because I ain't trying.
Speaker 7 (42:35):
To give anybody no spark or no bulletin board material.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
You know, that's a momentum changer because then once that happens,
you know you've struck your your enemy, you know, the
person that you're fighting. You've drawn blood, and like, how
are they going to deal with that that wound? Are
they going to be able to pull it back and
get back on track? Are they gonna drop down a
(43:02):
notch and your team is gonna move ahead? You know,
sitting in the stands and watching that, it's it's like
where you're like, Okay, I'm I'm gonna stay really quiet
because I don't want to draw attention to myself.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Right, Oh my gosh, do you get really nervous because
you always you you always look pretty calm on the outside.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
Do you get nervous? Yes? Absolutely right, It never ends.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
The Lakers took the title in Game five at Staples,
finishing with the best record ever in the history of
the NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
Back to back titles for the Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
I remember my dad after the first one saying to me,
why does why does he have to make it look
so easy?
Speaker 7 (43:59):
You know?
Speaker 5 (44:01):
But it really is about everybody committing to what the
goal is, and everybody kind of sacrificing what they're about
their ego and about their game and how they can
fit in and create something bigger than just the sum
of its part.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
You know. Kobe comes first with the Jeff and then
you follow with me the knockout.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Kobe and Shaq began the next season as co captains,
Perfect Cash.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And Kobe Bryan Great execution by Shock.
Speaker 15 (44:38):
So many people talk about the riff, the beef, whatever
you want to call it, between Shack and Kobe. If
you ever just hung out with us as a team,
locker room practices bus. They never once said anything to
us about what was going on between them. It must
have been some much that was handled with Field because
we're going to practice, laugh and joke and this is
(44:59):
what you can tell, well, you don't like someone after practices,
everybody sits in the locker room their icing and doing
it is them. Dudes would laugh and talk to each other,
tell jokes either. I was just you know, in my
own world and never I never saw the beef. You know,
do you think about this when you looking back at
the first championship that we won there, who were the
(45:20):
first people to embrace shacking Kobe?
Speaker 7 (45:23):
Right? And then next championship Shack and Kobe And for me,
I'm like, where is this beef?
Speaker 15 (45:28):
I remember going into a third championship it started coming
out that you know, it was, you know, a hierarchy
going on. It's beef going on. And I remember telling press,
you know what, we don't need them anymore. Let's just
trade Shack and Kobe. I said that's a joke, right,
and they both come to like, oh, you're gonna trade me.
I'm like, there was a joke, dude, it was a joke.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And so yeah, you were trying to point out just
how like kind of ridiculous it was. You guys were
winning winning championships, but I never.
Speaker 15 (45:57):
I personally, I never saw it. And because I you
know me, I'm just a fun loving guy. I've never
played with anybody I didn't like. I'm always trying to
have a conversation with people and trying to get know
people off the court, because you know, basketball is basketball,
but we are at the basketball we are human beings
with fathers, and I just tried to get to know
everybody on that on that playing field, and it was
(46:18):
great to get to know those guys. And and for me,
the beef was so ridiculous because we both get in
the same championship ring, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
The Lakers quest for a three peete began with the
sweep of the Blazers in Round.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
One brows there comes frying where a shot.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
They dispatched the Spurs in five. In the semis Kobe
dropped forty five in Game one and average thirty three
for the series.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Coming off the strip shot homing.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
The real drama began in the Western Conference Finals against
a familiar foe in the Sacramento Kings.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
These two teams backla both dings. There is some there's
not a lot of loss between theaster.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Clot So Game four Western Conference Finals in two thousand
and two and you hit this three porter with a
second left on the clock over Chris Weber, uh huh,
and you guys win one hundred and ninety nine. The
Kings were leading that series, by the way. The Staples
Center was going like berserk.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Yes, we're a lot of shoven. Second, what an more
about question?
Speaker 1 (47:49):
What do you recall about that?
Speaker 15 (47:50):
If you if I could take off my jack you
see I'm getting, I would be getting goosebumps.
Speaker 7 (47:54):
I've made a lot of big shots.
Speaker 15 (47:56):
That shot is the only shot when you just mentioned it,
I get goosebumps because to me, making that shot was
like the birth of one of my kids.
Speaker 7 (48:05):
That's how special it is to me. Because give me
a little history. I grew up a big Laker fan.
Speaker 15 (48:11):
I grew up a big Magic Johnson fan, and then
able to knock down that shot in Staples and have
the fans chant my name is. It is the greatest
feeling I started having your kids and being drafted into
the NBA.
Speaker 7 (48:28):
For me, I remember walking off and in the locker room.
Speaker 15 (48:32):
The fans I think stayed there maybe five to ten
minutes after the game, still chanting my name. As a player,
your ego always gets some gets in the way of
gets the best of you sometime, but this is the
one time the ego.
Speaker 7 (48:43):
Was just like, yeah, you deserve this dog. And for me, man,
it was it's like when I go to meet my maker,
I want that video played at my funeral.
Speaker 15 (48:56):
It's the best moment, like, you know, in my basketball career,
you know that shot, doing it in the Laker uniform
for one of the greatest franchises ever.
Speaker 7 (49:03):
Man, it's extra special.
Speaker 5 (49:07):
It's hard to explain the faith that you have, like
because it's just it's always seemed something would change the tide.
And whether that was you know, Phil changing you know,
like his substitutions, or Kobe's determination and will Shacks physical dominance,
(49:32):
something would break open and then there'd be this like okay,
we're making a run. Okay, you know, and oh we're
catching up. Now we're only down by twelve. And then
when you have somebody like Robert or who is so
underrated the fact that he could win in so many
different roles and so many different offenses and contribute to
(49:57):
championship teams in various organsanizations like that doesn't happen, you know,
like it's it's so rare, and he's one of them,
and him not afraid to take that big shot.
Speaker 8 (50:11):
Christy inbounds to Weber underneath tiped away by the Lakers,
Fisher has.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
It and the King came close, game seven overtime.
Speaker 8 (50:20):
To the world champion Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
But the Lake Show wasn't over. An anti climactic sweep
of the nets.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
Swing again, the open shot up again.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
And the Lakers had their three people, three p.
Speaker 6 (50:37):
And a sweep for the world champion Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 8 (50:42):
Phil Jackson has won for his night NBA Championship.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
The Purple and Gold standard upheld. As you look back
on it, what do you think was the hardest part
of achieving a three peat? Because it hasn't been done since.
You might have made it look easy the Lakers, but
it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (51:08):
Well, you can see it like we didn't win four
in a row, and then what happens isn't you know?
I would I would think the Warriors, you know, and
the Bowls of the nineties, they could talk about what
happens just internally that you know, Phil even has a
saying there there isn't enough success to go around the
(51:30):
success of the team that all of a sudden, any
ego gets involved, Well, they wouldn't have won without that,
you know, Robert or hitting that shot. You know my contracts, Uh,
where am I getting paid? And it's really difficult to
sustain that kind of success, you know, it it carries
(51:52):
its own weight and you know, you like to think
that it would fortify you, but it's it's a leading
time and you got to make the most of it
and try to maximize the amount of wins that you
can get.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
You know, there's a lot of ways to look back
on the past, right and you can look back on
that era and say, wow, had Shack and Kobe say together,
there would be even more rings. Or you can look
back and say that's the way it was meant to be.
How do you look back on that in retrospect? What's
your perspective?
Speaker 5 (52:26):
I think, you know, with the experience that I have,
what I'd like to share with the younger people, the
younger players in our organization is enjoy the moment. You know,
it's so hard to get there, and it's really special
when you do like, savor it, savor it as long
(52:49):
as you can. And what I really loved about Phil
was every year he would start a season, no matter
you know, who was coming back, who leaving, he would
start a season like, Okay, here's how we win a championship.
Some years it was, you know, kind of like a
(53:09):
straight line to the championship. And sometimes literally you're going
to have to climb the Himalayas in order to win
a championship. That's how hard it's going to be. But
there's always a chance that we can. We can win this,
and here's how we're going to do it. And this
is what I need from you, and each player set
their expectations. Here's here's how you're going to contribute to
(53:33):
us winning. And you know that that's really a message
that I try to pass to to everyone involved in
this organization. And and why I was so against teams
who would tank, Like tanking is uh saddling coaches and
(53:54):
players with losing records that have nothing seem to do
with them, and like the arrogance of a front office
to say, we don't think we can win a championship,
so we're going to just pile on and be as
bad as possible. It's such a disservice to people who
(54:15):
have spent their entire life trying to win.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Is there a part of you that wishes, maybe a
large part of you, that people would stop focusing on
the Kobe and Shack relationship and appreciate what they accomplished
together rather than the differences that they had when they
were both young men. I mean, Kobe is a teenager
coming into the league. Certainly the two of them put
(54:45):
that to rest, but I'm wondering their perspective on it.
Speaker 5 (54:48):
Yeah, you know, it just it's as time goes on,
it will it won't be the story that people will
want to talk about. Then want to talk about what
they did accomplish together, you know. And I know that
they had appreciation and the love for each other. I
(55:10):
saw it, you know, not in front of the cameras.
They really really did appreciate each other and support each other.
And you know, I even you know, when Shaquille said,
Sharif had, you know, his heart surgery. You know, Kobe
was like the first one to check on him, and
(55:32):
they really had a special bond and they knew it.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
That Lakers team was the last in the NBA to
three peat. The Shaq Kobe era ended in two thousand
and four, Shaq traded to the Miami Heat, where he
would win another title. As Kobe led the Lakers to
two more championships. Genie gave him a forty eight and
a half million dollar contract late in his career, coming
off an Achilles injury. He retired wearing the Bull and Gold,
(56:01):
dropping a magical sixty points in his final game.
Speaker 6 (56:04):
From one last gamer, Ryan are the moves with the
jump berd He fine fifty eight points and the Lakers leave.
Speaker 4 (56:16):
I can't believe it's come to an end.
Speaker 18 (56:19):
You guys will always be in my heart and I sincerely,
sincerely appreciate it. No words can describe how I phil
about you guys, and uh, thank you, Thank you from
the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
God, I love you guys, and uh, I love you guys.
What can I say, mambou?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
How gratifying is it for you? Because of the family
aspect of the Lakers, that Kobe was able to be
a Laker for his entire career, That's just an incredible
accomplishment and also rare.
Speaker 5 (56:57):
He loved the Lakers so much and I am so
grateful that, you know, he spent his entire career as
a Laker, because he could have easily failed or asked
to be traded. He didn't. He stuck it out for
twenty years, and that we were able to retire his
(57:21):
jerseys and celebrate him so that he would you know,
there was no doubt how much we loved him as
fans and as an organization, and we got that opportunity
to celebrate him and retire both his members, and you know,
(57:43):
I'm grateful that we had that.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
The Lakers remain essentially a family business, from doctor Buss
to Jeanie to the stars treated Lake family and manifested
in a tangible way in this year's NBA Draft.
Speaker 12 (57:59):
With a fifty fifth pick in the twenty twenty four
NBA Draft, the Los Angeles Lakers select Ronnie James from
the University of Southern California.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
It does always kind of go back to a family.
You know, you would go into the press conferences afterwards,
and maybe it's because it was really run by a family.
You know, you and your dad, your brother there did
feel like that extended to the players.
Speaker 5 (58:24):
You know, I saw it on the other side when
when you know, I dated Phil for fifteen years, and
so when I was his significant other, I learned how
to look at the team through the lens of a coach.
And I remember getting in a fight with him because
he was bringing the team in on Thanksgiving to practice,
(58:46):
and I'm like, why are you doing that? Give them
one day off? And he said, Genie, what I'm trying
to show them by having them practice on Thanksgiving and
they'll have enough time to go home and have their
dinner with their family. But I wanted to. I want
to establish that this is their family as well, and
(59:09):
that's a that's powerful. When a coach can harness that
and create that family dynamic, then then you know you
have something really special.
Speaker 1 (59:20):
The genesis of this podcast was because I wanted to
tell my father's story as a former commissioner of the
a BA. And that's something that you and I have
always gone in common, how inspired we were by our
dads and how our dads change our lives. When you
think about your dad today as we sit here, what's
(59:41):
the first thing that comes to mind?
Speaker 5 (59:43):
You know how passionate he was about the Lakers team,
and you know, winning and building something that was his
dream and accomplishing the goal of making the Lakers want
of the most dominant teams in the NBA, because he
(01:00:05):
felt that there was such a bias with the East
Coast media that teams on the West Coast really didn't
get their due. And you know, he really had something
to prove, and he did it. He proved it. So
he's just really remarkable.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Next time on NBA DNA, The Doves Dynasty NBA DNA
with Hannah Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts, The
NBA and Brainstorm and Productions. The show is written and
(01:00:50):
executive produced by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver
and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver.
Our senior are Peter Kowder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese.
Editing and sound design by Kurt Garren and Julia Weaver.
The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean
(01:01:13):
ty Tone, Steve Wintraup, and Jason Weikelt
September twentieth, nineteen seventy three, twenty nine year old Billy
gene Kinks steps onto the court at Houston's Astrodome. She
has been one of the world's best tennis players for
more than a decade. The year before, she became the
fifth woman in history to win a career Grand Slam.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's a fact, isn't it that if they were both males,
Billy Jean ding, We're a male.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
She actually excels over Rigs in such manners.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Per opponent in the Battle of the Sexist is fifty
five year old Bobby Riggs, who in nineteen thirty nine,
four years before Billy Jean was born, was the number
one player in the world. Now he's working as a
tennis promoter and making headlines for calling the women's game inferior.
His latest claim is that he could be any woman
(00:53):
in the world.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
This is the scene in the Astrodome.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I'm down to the floor of the Astrodome with a
couple of great champions who are here to to happening.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The lead up to the match is a spectacle. King
enters the court Cleopatra style, carried by four shirtless men.
She gives Riggs a piglet to symbolize as male chauvinism.
Ninety million people are watching from home, including Los Angeles
businessman Jerry Buss and his eleven year old daughter, Jeanie.
(01:23):
As history has documented, Billy Jean dominated the match and
became an enduring force for equality. A year later, founding
World Team Tennis, a freewheeling mixed gender league that featured
some of the greatest players in the world.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Zins God's Tide her Ring another golden momment from Wimbledy.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
World Team Tennis was all about in arena entertainment, and
doctor Jerry Bus, who was itching to buy a professional
sports team, became one of the league's first owners, of
the La Strings in nineteen seventy four. Bus was a
chemist with a seriously lucrative real estate business, best known,
(02:16):
of course, for later buying the Lakers.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
The World Trophy to the owner of the Los Angeles Lakers,
the new World Champions of Basketball, and I'm proud to
do it.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
And here you go, Jerry Buss, it's yours.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
That didn't happen for another five years. Meanwhile, doctor Buss
was determined to bring his daughter into the male dominated
world of sports business. He brought Genie to team meetings
and when she was nineteen and a student at USC
BUS made her general manager of the La Strings.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
When he offered me the job, I was still in school.
I said this great, I can quit school and just
focus on my job, and he was, you know, very much,
you could have the job as long as you go
to school. So that made it difficult because I was
balancing schoolwork and my social life and trying to run
(03:14):
a tennis team. You know, he saw something in me
that I had the ambition to do that, in the discipline,
to be able to schedule and do things so that
I could accomplish, you know, meet the requirements of my.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Job and World Team Centis was so crazy. That was
like a really fun, relegably great idea. Do you remember
like an early accomplishment that you had, whether it was
a player or promotion or anything like that where you
just felt like I did a really good job that
worked out really well.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
You know, we were really fortunate that Martina Navrachulova was
available to play, and so she was, you know, the
first player I drafted the LA Strings, and you know
she was it was as she was making her way
up to being the number one player in the world.
Speaker 8 (04:10):
We'll see Martinez looking for this forehand to come up
the line.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
Now, watch if she comes to the SA.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
And she loved World Team Tennis and she loved the
camaraderie of being with a team. So I think that
was really something special, was having that opportunity to really
get to know a superstar on their ascent. And we
won a championship that year.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The Bus family was all about championships. That became the
family business. In nineteen seventy nine, doctor Buss purchased the
Los Angeles Lakers, the La Kings, the Great Western Forum,
and a thirteen hundred acre ranch from Jack Ted Cook.
The total sixty seven and a half million dollars. Jeannie
(04:59):
was named president of the Great Western Forum.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
You know, it was such a great experience for me
because I had always been the promoter of events. So
promoters the one that puts together the event, the activity,
the show, and they put it into your venue. Now,
as the head of the arena, I got a different
(05:24):
view of what it was like for a promoter to
come into a venue and what a venue needed in
order to support the show or the event.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Doctor Buss transformed the Lakers into showtime entertainment worthy of
Tinseltown THEA From nineteen eighty to eighty nine, the Lakers
won five titles in eight trips to the NBA Finals,
establishing expectations that still exist and which Genie inherited when
(06:02):
she took over the team.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Well, you know, you just look at timing, you know,
and some things are just luck. My dad drafting Magic Johnson,
somebody that could, you know, light the show on fire
with his smile.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
This man has a smile that lights up a television
screen from here, the bangor Maid.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
He was just one of those great personalities and great
basketball players. So, you know, winning the championship. But I
also like to underline the fact that during the eighties,
we you know, we had the Rams and the Raiders
here in Los Angeles, and eventually both teams moved out.
(06:50):
So there was a twenty year period where in a
major league city, we had no NFL to compete with,
and that further cemented the Lakers just being a team
from Los Angeles representing Los Angeles the Magic Man.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
What's more, the showtime Lakers, as you said, really put
you guys on the map and made Los Angeles a
championship city. What sort of pressure was there to maintain
or get back to that standard when you took over
the Lakers.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Well, you know, there's there's the standard, and then there's
the Purple and Gold standard, and you know that's you know,
it's hard to compete with your past success. Our fans
expect nothing but the best, and that's what makes them
the best fans in the NBA. So there's a lot
of pressure to win in Los Angeles. You know, by design,
(07:50):
the NBA has, you know, through a salarycap system, a
revenue sharing system. You know, they're trying to even play
field and create more parody. It's just that much harder
for any one team to dominate.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
It's a different environment than you know, when my dad
started in the eighties, when there was no salary cap.
Every time Larry Bird got a new contract, my dad
would call Magic and rip up the old one and
give him a new one. You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 9 (08:24):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
My dad always wanted Magic to be the highest paid player,
and you could do that because there weren't the same
rules that are in place now.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
But a decade of dominance in the eighties was followed
by a decade of disappointment in the nineties, the Lakers
were in rebuild mode. They built a solid cast Eddie Jones,
Robert Ory, Glenn, Rice, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, and as
for the stars LA had come to expect. Twenty four
(09:01):
year old Chiquill O'Neal was acquired from the Orlando Magic
in nineteen ninety six. Second and nineteen year old Kobe
Bryant came into the NBA that same year, straight out
of high school.
Speaker 10 (09:17):
The Charlotte Hornets select Kobe Bryant from Lower Merion High
School in.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Pennsylvan acquired by the Lakers in a draft day trade
with the Charlotte Hornets. It is a step off from
high school, and I understand that.
Speaker 11 (09:30):
So therefore, every time I step on a basketball court,
I'm going to put a strong effort out there on
the floor.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
I'm not going to leave anything on the floor.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But the Shack and Kobe show was not an immediate
Hollywood hit.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 8 (09:43):
These Spurns has a better individual talent than the Lakers,
but I am going to say they have.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
A better team.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
A four game suite by the Utah Jazz in the
nineteen ninety eight Western Conference Finals exposed the Lakers team
that had a lot of growing to do.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Total domination by the experienced Utah Jazz against the youthful Talada.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Los Angeles Lakers, and so in nineteen ninety nine, Doctor
Buss looked to the most successful coach of the era
to bring it all together.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Without feather Ado, the new coach at the Los Angeles Lakers,
Phil Jackson.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
From the NBA and iHeart podcast This is NBA DNA
with Me Hannah Storm, Episode nine, The Lake Show, January thirteenth,
(10:45):
nineteen ninety nine, Chicago, Illinois, Credentialed members of the media
assemble on the floor of the United Center for a
press conference with Michael Jordan.
Speaker 7 (10:57):
For the second time in little more than five years.
Speaker 12 (10:59):
Michael Jordan is choosing to walk away from the NBA.
Now it looks like he's gonna be walking away for good.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Only six months earlier, Jordan led the Bulls to their
six NBA championship under head coach Phil Jackson.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
My Everybody, Hannah Store back here in Chicago. In the
past decade, the Chicago Bulls have forged one of sports
from great dynasties. Five NBA titles in the last seven
years and now just one went away from a six championship.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Mj had won the league MVP and Defensive Player of
the Year, famously ending his Bulls career with the last
second dagger to sink the Utah Jazz for a six
rings and second three people.
Speaker 8 (11:39):
In ship number six Michael against Russell twelve seconds eleven
ten Jordan a dry.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Hain't fire y hey scars.
Speaker 10 (11:51):
Football's late eighty seven eighty six work five at two
tats lap oh.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Why it was the end of an era. That same
month that Jordan retired, the Bulls traded Scottie Pippen. The
preeminent dynasty of the nineties was over. Did Michael Jordan
know that you had no intention of attorney?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, Yeah, he pretty much knew it. You know, we
talked tremendous amount of time throughout the season, and we
sort of had that vibe, the feeling after the season
that you know, it was pretty much our last time together.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Phil Jackson had been the first Domino general manager. Jerry
Krause made it clear that Jackson's contract would not be renewed,
and after the finals, he left the franchise, literally riding
off into the sunset on his motorcycle.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Hebe on the moat loud Girl now Hobby Bryant working
in the light.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And meanwhile, the Lakers had one of the most promising
tandems in the NBA, Shaquille O'Neill and Kobe Bryant, but
they have been swept out of the playoffs for two
years in a row. Doctor Buss bequeathed the running of
(13:09):
the franchise to his daughter, Jeanie. Can you paint the
picture of when you were promoted to executive vice president
in nineteen ninety nine, what the state of the franchise was,
you know, what you were stepping into and taking over.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
You know, Shaq Shaquille O'Neill had joined the Lakers as
a free agent in ninety six. Kobe Bryant was drafted
by Jerry West in nineteen ninety six. You know, we
had a couple of years with these two very well
established shack and this young rookie who won the Slam
(13:45):
Dunk contest his rookie year, and my dad, you know,
was getting frustrated. He wanted to win, and he decided
to make a change and bring in a new coach.
And the coach that he hired was Phil Jackson. And
my reaction was, are you sure that's a good idea
(14:07):
given the fact he's kind of a big personality. You've
already got a really big personality in Shack, a really
big personality in Kobe. And he said, you know, he's
got an offensive system that I really want the Lakers
to run. And that was the Triangle and Phil Jackson
took the job, and of course I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
It was a high stakes time for the Lakers. New coach,
new system, new season, new venue. That same year that
Phil started with the Lakers, they moved from the Great
Western Forum to the Staples Center in downtown La.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Our fans did not We're not excited about it at all.
They'd been used to going to Inglewood for you know,
forty years to see their team, and there was a
lot of people stressed out. And you know, I remember
getting phone calls from fans saying, I want the same
seat that I have at the Forum, and I said, well,
(15:06):
you can have your seat that's at the Forum, but
the Lakers aren't going to be there down to see them.
And you know, the best thing that happened was we
won a championship that first year. Because people were concerned, like,
are we giving away our mojo or advantage everything that
(15:26):
the forum meant to our history.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
The jess Rose and Miller even whydn't look well, we
don't run around on the defense too much.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
BUS made Jackson one of the highest paid coaches in
the league, thirty million over five years, and he brought
his zim master holistic approach to LA from burning sage
in the locker room to giving his players summer reading assignments.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
I thought he was a hippie dude. I mean I
didn't know, like you know, it was he married, Did
he have a family. I had no idea. I really
didn't pay that much attention except I remembered when he
left the Bulls, which was, you know, now we've we've
watched we've all watched the Last Dance documentary, which then
(16:22):
kind of tells that whole story of the Bulls had
decided Phil, this is your last year. You're not coming back.
And so when that season was over and they win
the championship and he's lighting the cigar like he always did,
they showed him riding a motorcycle from the practice facility
(16:44):
like he was going off into the sunset like, Oh
my gosh, he's just such drama, you know, And I'm like, oh,
is this really going to play here in la And
were used to like Pat Riley and you know, and
Phil's more of a like, you know, free spirit, and
Pat was like Armani suits, so oh yeah, very buttoned off,
(17:09):
very slick, very like contained, totally different, very different. So
I mean, I'm glad my dad didn't listen to me.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Why do you think that, looking back, that Phil Jackson
was the right person to bring, as you said, these
really big personalities together and mold them into a unit.
Why do you think that was so successful as you
look back.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
On it, You know, it was really about getting them
on the same page. Shack wanted to win. He was
tired of being labeled the superstar who couldn't push the
team over the edge to win the championship. And then
you had Kobe, who was a student of the game,
(17:52):
and you know, here was this opportunity because he had
studied Michael Jordan so much. Here now to have the
same teachers as someone he idolized so much kind of unlocked,
you know, so much potential in his brain. And you know,
(18:13):
Phil was the eager teacher the first time you met
my dad. He asked, my dad, you know, why do
you want me to come coach your team? And my
dad said, well, I'm giving you a five year deal,
and I expect you to win a championship. I'm tired
of losing. And Phil was, you know, why wouldn't you
want me to win five? You know that's the way. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
In his first Lakers press conference, Phil promised to help
Shack move into a leadership role, and he called Kobe Jordanes.
Balancing the two personalities would become essential to the team's success,
and Jeanie leaned on her experience from her earliest days
as a sports executive.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
Luckily, you know, in my earlier career, I you know,
not only had promoted World Team tennis the LA Strings,
but also promoted championship type matches in exhibitions. So you know,
we would have Yvonne Lendall play Andre Agascy, Jimmy Connors,
(19:20):
John McEnroe. And the most difficult match that we ever
had to make was Jimmy Connors versus John McEnroe because
they never wanted to have to play each other. They
did not vibe. Okay, it was like having to convince
each one of them that they were my favorite. Jimmy,
(19:45):
you're my favorite, you know, like we got to bring
John in and then John, I know how you feel
about Jimmy, but like, you know, and it was just
really because you know, when they had to play each
other in a tournament, they didn't want either one of
them to have the edge over the other. So whoever
won this exhibition might mentally it may carry over into
(20:09):
the US Open finals. And so now you fast forward
to Shaquille O'Neill and Kobe Bryant. I loved both of them,
but you know, they were competitive for attention. Whose team
is this? And so you know, just walking that fine
line of you're my favorite, no, you're and you know,
(20:35):
really the main thing was there was room enough for both.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
On the court. It was critical for Jackson to get
buy in for his triangle offense, but Kobe thought it
was limiting for his game.
Speaker 13 (20:53):
There were some personal goals that were standing in front
of the group goals, and that all had to be
kind of figured out. It was a situation which you know,
I was asking them to kind of fit into roles
and demanded the team to play more unselfish basketball.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Phil brought in someone familiar with the triangle, a guy
who had played for him in Chicago, John Sally.
Speaker 14 (21:17):
I thought, in order to work in California, you have
to play for the Lakers. So one day was watching.
It was nineteen ninety nine. I never forget it was
the shortened season. I was watching the Lakers and they
were losing. I think they lost in the first round
of the playoffs. And they had Shaq and Kobe and
JL Reed and Dennis Rodman and all these people, and
(21:40):
something made me pick up the phone and call Phil Jackson,
and he goes, what's up long to all of them,
and I said, you're not going to let these guys
not win a championship party. I said, come on, I
left five doors from Shack. I know Kobe, we can talk.
They need the system. People don't realize it's the system.
So when I got on the Laker I was a
(22:01):
glorified coach in the player's uniform.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Here's Robert or on the change with Jackson at the helm.
When he came to the Lakers. What did he bring
to that equation? Like, how did he make it all work?
Speaker 15 (22:14):
Stability? You know, here's the thing. Stability and direction. We
had four All Stars the previous year, Eddie Jones, Kobe,
Shaq Nick four All Stars getting swept by Utah. So
you have to think about the stabilion. And also when
you bring in someone like a Phil Jackson, who's coach
the greatest, and Michael Jordan, you're gonna bring in that discipline.
(22:36):
You know, Shaq was very disciplined that summer. I even
put on like five pounds ten pounds a muscle going
into that season. Kobe came in like bigger. We all
came in physically ready to start that training camp because
you know what to expect when you've been under the
coach for two or three years, you know how to train.
We had no idea what fields training camps were.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Going to be.
Speaker 15 (22:57):
We were going to run a lot, we were going
to run the triangle each and every day until we
got it. So everybody came in shape and and ready.
And I think that was the biggest key, because Shaq
started a season off just so dominant, you know, because
first no.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
Kobe got Hurt's right. We just rove Shack's coattails to
the best record in the NBA that year.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
Fox Waits'neil's a paint jumps, ry stars and pay beautiful
deliberty by Shaquillo mew.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
In nineteen ninety nine, Phil's first year with the Lakers,
they went sixty seven and fifteen, and Shaq became the
NBA MVP.
Speaker 10 (23:36):
Number one in scoring, number two and rebounds number three,
in block shots four as since the game almost and
only three people played more minutes as you were leading
your team to sixty seven victoriation.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
It's a pleasure to watch you grow. Congratulations, nineteen ninety nine, two.
Speaker 10 (23:55):
Thousand, NBA MVP, Shaquille.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
It was fun.
Speaker 15 (24:02):
And you've never played with a dominant big man. You
don't understand how fun it is. Just look at the
Denver Nuggets. They know how fun it is. And it's
so fun to play with a dominant big man who
demands a double team, who can pass, and who allows
you to press up defensively on the perimeter and funnel
guys him so he can block shot. But you think
(24:26):
about what Shaq demanded when he was playing double teams.
Speaker 7 (24:31):
Hack of Shock. It was so much fun playing with Shaq.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
A perfect ash from Toby Bryant, great execution by Shock.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Young Kobe began to blossom under Jackson averaging twenty nine
points and five assists of games, and he was named
to the NBA's All Defensive Second Team. Here's Phil reflecting
on that first year, courtesy of ESPN.
Speaker 9 (25:04):
Tolb me a nice struggle a lot the first year.
It was I will tell you, like looking at Michael
Jordan and come fly with me or whatever that video was.
He had everything all in markings. The way he posed,
the way he held himself, it was almost amazing. And
there were times I would pull him to the sideline
(25:26):
and say, don't try to take over this game. It's
not time. Don't try to take over this game. But
he was dying to do so, and he was ready
to do so.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
In the air up the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
The Lakers moved quickly through the first few rounds of
the playoffs, beating the Sacramento Kings and Phoenix Suns in
five games each.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Kneel against devots.
Speaker 12 (26:03):
You love the playoffs because of star players come to
the front.
Speaker 14 (26:07):
That's what this is all about.
Speaker 8 (26:08):
Kobe Spina left breasfe shine under patrol of them.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You had championship experience. Did you ever speak up about
that or what was it that you brought to the
table because you you already had two titles.
Speaker 15 (26:23):
Yeah, I didn't have to say anything because we had
a coach who had six titles. And so for me,
sometimes there is a player when you're sitting on the
bus and guys would talk.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
You know, Kobe will always ask.
Speaker 15 (26:33):
Me about dreams, footwork, and he would ask me about
you know, Clyde's you know, his ability to get out
on the break and certain little things like that. But
he never asked about, you know, how it is to
win a championship. I never really had to, you know,
say anything, because Phil was the one like, hey, this
is what we need to do, this is what we
have to do, and think about it. Like I said,
(26:54):
he coached Max Michael Jordan. When this guy talks, everybody's
gonna be listening.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Jackson led the franchise back to the NBA Finals to
face the Indiana Pacers led by future Hall of Famer
Reggie Miller and old Lakers nemesis head coach Larry Bird.
Hoosiers versus Hollywood.
Speaker 11 (27:18):
Ladies and gentlemen are very pleasant.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Good evening to you from the beautiful Staples Center, Los Angeles, California.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Tonight, the real season begins.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
The Lakers came out hot, dominating Game one, shooting fifteen
for twenty. In the first quarter of the Finals, O'Neil.
Speaker 8 (27:33):
Puts it down and it's eleven first quarter points.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
He's on his way to a forty point night.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
In Game two, Kobe sprained his ankle during a Lakers win.
The Pacers took Game three and the Lakers game four
in over time.
Speaker 10 (27:49):
Your turn, mister Bryants, What if you got for us
this time?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Kobe? Pull up tony two.
Speaker 8 (27:54):
Yes, if you want to be a hero, you gotta
take her shots.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Thanks to a heroic performance by a still recovering Kobe
and a missed buzzer beater by Indiana's Reggie Miller.
Speaker 8 (28:08):
Oh, and that's it, the Lakers take a three one
series lead.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That says one for the Then the Pacers crushed the
Lakers at home in Game five.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
That's still handling on top, waits for putting. Reggie Millard steps.
Speaker 13 (28:24):
Inside off of facing shot.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yes, nails the three ball for the left corner.
Speaker 13 (28:30):
I don't like to think of a team that has
championship quality in it that loses by thirty three points.
And you know, we have to prove something to ourselves
when we go back home.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
In this regard, there was always this calmness, you know,
and it was very deliberate by Phil to never let
the players see you sweat, right, So he always stayed
calm so that the players could always have a place
to check in and check into that calmness. And there
(29:04):
was something about watching those teams you just never doubted
that they were going to pull a rabbit out of their.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Hat, both teams battling for their collective lives.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Fox waits for Shaq. He doesn't come so far.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
The Lakers gave Hollywood the ending they had wanted since
nineteen eighty eight, a championship, beating the Pacers one sixteen
to one eleven. Shaq had forty one points and twelve
rebounds and was named Finals MVP.
Speaker 10 (29:46):
Congratulations to the NBA two thousand.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
Champions, Los Angeles Lakers, their fans in the city.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I'm not wanting to y'all.
Speaker 8 (30:03):
We're gonna be.
Speaker 16 (30:03):
One next year.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
To y'all.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
The Bus family envisioned the first dynasty of the New millennium,
picking up where the Bulls and MJ had left off.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
What a steal by Kobe going on the runway.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
That is where you do the comparisons to the Jordan
here's John Sally.
Speaker 14 (30:31):
I told Michael he's tied soap detergent and Kobe is
tied point two or ever grief when he did nothing
when I got on the Lakers too, he watched tons
of films.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
He's so serious.
Speaker 14 (30:46):
He watched tons of film.
Speaker 9 (30:49):
Didn't you know.
Speaker 14 (30:50):
He couldn't go out, so he couldn't hang out. So
he was just imagined, not worrying about anything and just
playing basketball. The blessing was he came in so early.
He had a father who played in the Pros. His
mother is a wonderful woman. His sisters were like he
had an unbelievable support. Like I tell people, when Kobe
(31:12):
came into the NBA.
Speaker 7 (31:13):
He lived at home with his parents.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's right.
Speaker 14 (31:16):
But Jerry West saw the same thing I saw when
I got to him. It was it's a fire that
I have not seen anywhere else. Kobe was like that.
We ran sprints. He ran him. He didn't jog him
when he took his shots. Same feeling, the tenacious idea
of this guy's in front of me. I had to
(31:36):
move the ball here. That was all in his brain.
I'm going to be I mean, I asked him too
one time. I said, so, you're the next Michael Jordan.
He said, no, I'm the first Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Here's Phil Jackson.
Speaker 9 (31:51):
I arranged a meeting between Michael and Kobe two give
him a little impression of how to handle the in
a restricted basketball system that relied on passing the ball
to available teammates and wanting to go one on one
with this guy in front of you. So I arranged
(32:14):
we had a little meeting in the cigar room off
the bar downstairs, and Michael and I were sitting there
and Kobe walked in after a shower and the press
and went on, and he sat down and he said, Michael,
I can take you one on one. And Michael said, well,
(32:39):
I think you might. I'm thirty seven or twenty two, right,
But that was part of his growing up years, and
his teammates would come to me and say, you know,
Kobe never goes out with us. He's always in his room,
he's watching tape, he's doing this and that, but he's
not really associating with us. And so I pulled him
aside and I said, you want to be to the
(33:00):
team someday, don't you? And he said, oh, I should
be captain. Now, I said, Gobe, you don't associate with
your teammates. Here's separate the part. Well, they think about
the girls and hubcaps and cars and whatever. I'm watching
the game. It's a serious business for me. And that
was how he was.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
It was serious business and defending the title. Point Guard
Derek Fisher missed the first sixty two games of the
season due to a foot injury. And then there was
Kobe and Shaq both speaking openly about each other in
the media, and a loss to the Golden State Warriors
in December of two thousand. Kobe scored fifty one points,
but took too many ill advised shots down the.
Speaker 13 (33:41):
Stretch, and it kind of exacerbated the situation we were
in that, you know, he was trying to win it
all by himself a lot of nights.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
By January, after a twenty three point loss to the Clippers,
the team's frustrations had reached new heights. Here's Shaq.
Speaker 11 (34:01):
I've never been the one to get into whose team
it is, who's this, and who's that. But when it was,
when everything went through me, the outcome was good. It
was sixty seven and fifteen playing with enthusiasm.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Shaq was a showman just as he is today, a
pitch man extraordinary, a star on screen and a rapper.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
For all my friends in the media who like quotes,
mark this quote down. From this day on, I would
like to be known as the Big Aristotle.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
But one could argue Kobe may have been a bit
more like Aristotle with a cerebral approach to basketball as
he developed his own philosophy.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Phil had the way of breaking through, and he didn't
treat everybody the same. He knew how to talk to
each person. And you know, remember him telling me that,
you know, Jeanie, at some point Kobe will rebel against me.
(35:08):
And I said, no, he loves you. Are you kidding?
But you guys are winning? But and he goes, no,
it's just it's just that's just the way it's human nature.
I'm an authority figure. You know, as somebody comes of age,
then they challenge, you know, what was there before so
that they can establish their identity. And you know, I
(35:29):
mean Phil the psychology of it all, and of course
we all know that that's kind of what happened. You know,
what do they what's the old say? Like when the
students already the teacher will come, and they will and
Phill was the teacher.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Here's Derek Fisher.
Speaker 17 (35:48):
The things going on, I guess with Kobe and Shack
were well documented, but it was too much focus put
on that, and I think, you know, for a lot
of us as members of the team, you know, we
kind of stepped back and also started attention to that
a lot instead of really being held accountable for what
we could do to help the team.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
In March, Kobe suffered an injury that kept him out
of the lineup for nine games. It turned out to
be the reset everyone needed during the.
Speaker 13 (36:14):
Period of time that Kobe set out. We had to
change our style back to where Shaq had the dominant
space on the floor, and once we got to that,
we executed very well. And I think that when Kobe
came back, it was really his impression that I'm going
to come back and I'm going to make this transition
into this team.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I was underneath of the baseline with Kobe n figuring
far and I'm selfish played by Kobe.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
The Lakers turned a corner and won their final eight
regular season games, beating the Sacramento Kings to take the
division titles.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
It again, O'Neil once again to Quidy two points, and
then a.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Better guard Kobe.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
The cacular Shocky Corby, and then they took off.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
I mean they only lost one game in the entire playoffs.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I mean that's regarded as one of the best all time.
Do you remember about that finals run? Why was that
team just so dominant?
Speaker 5 (37:13):
You know it was it was about everybody finding their
space in the triangle, trusting in each other, and then
that just familiarity of having a core group of guys return,
you know, they don't have to go through a learning
process again, you know, and it was only going to
(37:34):
get better now. Nobody could predict that the kind of
run that they went on. It was a lot of.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
The posterized so long.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
The Lakers sweat the Western Conference playoffs, first the Trailblazers,
who had taken them to a game seven the year before.
Then the Sacramento.
Speaker 16 (38:01):
Man slam Dollar, who one of a friend you absolutely
have to love what your cheek.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And finally the top seeded San Antonio.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Spurs comes outside to Bryant.
Speaker 8 (38:14):
He's hoping he shoots for three good over Bryant, connecting
they have dealt a severe and perhaps fatal balls of
a Spurs championship hulks man.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Kobe dropped seventy three points in games one and two
on the road, earning high praise from Shack.
Speaker 11 (38:35):
I told Kobe today he was my idols play. No,
I'm sure he's playing phenomenal. I mean, I don't know
what else to say. I think he's the best player.
Speaker 7 (38:46):
In the league.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
The Lakers wrapped it up in Game four at Staples.
Shaq finished with twenty six points and ten rebounds. Kobe
had twenty four points and eleven assists. I didn't even
imagine how you look back on that time, like what
what did you think and feel that your most important
contribution was during that time, because that's just that was
(39:11):
just iconic.
Speaker 7 (39:12):
That run.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
Whatever my dad needed, He'd tell me what he wanted
and I'd go execute. Like that's just that's just how
we worked. And as you know, the significant other of
the coach, I felt a little bit like I was
like Mama bear, you know, like this was I'm the
like team mom in a way, and so however I
(39:37):
could be however I could funnel information to Phil through
the wives, you know, if one family was struggling, because
you know, the kid's not sleeping at night. You know,
I'd make sure phil would get that information. It was
kind of like a wheel that, you know, everything kind
(39:57):
of fed off of each other in and it was
a cohesive unit.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
The lakers perfect playoff run would come to a screeching
halt in Game one of the NBA Finals. The Philadelphia
seventy six Ers, led by league MVP Allen Iverson, had
come to play, backed up by.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Iverson down the floor.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
He goes against O'Neil Allen by the big man Scoop
lap As Good and.
Speaker 8 (40:21):
The Lakers are being humiliated here at this point of
the ballgame, this.
Speaker 12 (40:26):
Is not going the way Los Angeles and its fans.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Iverson was unstoppable, scoring forty eight points. The Lakers lost
in overtime at home, one oh seven to one oh one.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
Shot blocked down to three.
Speaker 15 (40:41):
Snow with the ball.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
He's gonna have to do it himself.
Speaker 15 (40:42):
Back go to Allen.
Speaker 4 (40:43):
He comes out the right side baseline paint open. Good.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
What an incredible shot by Iverson, spinning like a top
through the paint.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
The Lakers responded with two straight wins, taking control of
the series with an end of game dagger in Game
three by big shot Rocks Robert or Oi'll.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Take a.
Speaker 16 (41:03):
Running away in the face of Philadelphia nails the three
ball for the left corner of Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I mean Magic's called you, which rightfully so one of
the greatest clutch players in history. In Game three in
the finals against Philly, I mean, this series is tied.
You know, you hit this three pointer with forty seven
seconds left and then you hit a free throw and
you guys win the game. What do you remember about that?
Speaker 15 (41:29):
In particular, I remember me running to the corner. I
was feeling and I think what people don't understand about
when you are who you are. What I mean by
that not not the upper echelon players who get plays
right for them. You might be shooting the ball pretty good,
but you might not get it again because the ball
is going through Shaq, going through Kobe.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
And that's one thing I love about b Shaw.
Speaker 15 (41:52):
B Shaw is I'm gonna go to the hot guy,
and he knew I had been shooting the ball pretty good,
so he came to me in the corner, and instead
of me looking for anybody, I took the shot from
the corner to put us well, to put us up
and I remember fans yelling behind you know what, Philly
fans are saying outrageous stuff, and I never respond to anybody.
(42:12):
But after I made that shot, I look at the
guy and I say some things I know I shouldn't
have said, like shut the f up.
Speaker 16 (42:22):
I couldn't help because the Philly fans, they just get
under you. Sometimes when you do something spectacular, you got
to say it. And plus I'm the type of person
I'm not gonna say nothing doing the game, but I
will say something at the end of the game when
I know he got in at hand, because I ain't trying.
Speaker 7 (42:35):
To give anybody no spark or no bulletin board material.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
You know, that's a momentum changer because then once that happens,
you know you've struck your your enemy, you know, the
person that you're fighting. You've drawn blood, and like, how
are they going to deal with that that wound? Are
they going to be able to pull it back and
get back on track? Are they gonna drop down a
(43:02):
notch and your team is gonna move ahead? You know,
sitting in the stands and watching that, it's it's like
where you're like, Okay, I'm I'm gonna stay really quiet
because I don't want to draw attention to myself.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Right, Oh my gosh, do you get really nervous because
you always you you always look pretty calm on the outside.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
Do you get nervous? Yes? Absolutely right, It never ends.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
The Lakers took the title in Game five at Staples,
finishing with the best record ever in the history of
the NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
Back to back titles for the Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
I remember my dad after the first one saying to me,
why does why does he have to make it look
so easy?
Speaker 7 (43:59):
You know?
Speaker 5 (44:01):
But it really is about everybody committing to what the
goal is, and everybody kind of sacrificing what they're about
their ego and about their game and how they can
fit in and create something bigger than just the sum
of its part.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
You know. Kobe comes first with the Jeff and then
you follow with me the knockout.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Kobe and Shaq began the next season as co captains,
Perfect Cash.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And Kobe Bryan Great execution by Shock.
Speaker 15 (44:38):
So many people talk about the riff, the beef, whatever
you want to call it, between Shack and Kobe. If
you ever just hung out with us as a team,
locker room practices bus. They never once said anything to
us about what was going on between them. It must
have been some much that was handled with Field because
we're going to practice, laugh and joke and this is
(44:59):
what you can tell, well, you don't like someone after practices,
everybody sits in the locker room their icing and doing
it is them. Dudes would laugh and talk to each other,
tell jokes either. I was just you know, in my
own world and never I never saw the beef. You know,
do you think about this when you looking back at
the first championship that we won there, who were the
(45:20):
first people to embrace shacking Kobe?
Speaker 7 (45:23):
Right? And then next championship Shack and Kobe And for me,
I'm like, where is this beef?
Speaker 15 (45:28):
I remember going into a third championship it started coming
out that you know, it was, you know, a hierarchy
going on. It's beef going on. And I remember telling press,
you know what, we don't need them anymore. Let's just
trade Shack and Kobe. I said that's a joke, right,
and they both come to like, oh, you're gonna trade me.
I'm like, there was a joke, dude, it was a joke.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And so yeah, you were trying to point out just
how like kind of ridiculous it was. You guys were
winning winning championships, but I never.
Speaker 15 (45:57):
I personally, I never saw it. And because I you
know me, I'm just a fun loving guy. I've never
played with anybody I didn't like. I'm always trying to
have a conversation with people and trying to get know
people off the court, because you know, basketball is basketball,
but we are at the basketball we are human beings
with fathers, and I just tried to get to know
everybody on that on that playing field, and it was
(46:18):
great to get to know those guys. And and for me,
the beef was so ridiculous because we both get in
the same championship ring, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
The Lakers quest for a three peete began with the
sweep of the Blazers in Round.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
One brows there comes frying where a shot.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
They dispatched the Spurs in five. In the semis Kobe
dropped forty five in Game one and average thirty three
for the series.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Coming off the strip shot homing.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
The real drama began in the Western Conference Finals against
a familiar foe in the Sacramento Kings.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
These two teams backla both dings. There is some there's
not a lot of loss between theaster.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Clot So Game four Western Conference Finals in two thousand
and two and you hit this three porter with a
second left on the clock over Chris Weber, uh huh,
and you guys win one hundred and ninety nine. The
Kings were leading that series, by the way. The Staples
Center was going like berserk.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Yes, we're a lot of shoven. Second, what an more
about question?
Speaker 1 (47:49):
What do you recall about that?
Speaker 15 (47:50):
If you if I could take off my jack you
see I'm getting, I would be getting goosebumps.
Speaker 7 (47:54):
I've made a lot of big shots.
Speaker 15 (47:56):
That shot is the only shot when you just mentioned it,
I get goosebumps because to me, making that shot was
like the birth of one of my kids.
Speaker 7 (48:05):
That's how special it is to me. Because give me
a little history. I grew up a big Laker fan.
Speaker 15 (48:11):
I grew up a big Magic Johnson fan, and then
able to knock down that shot in Staples and have
the fans chant my name is. It is the greatest
feeling I started having your kids and being drafted into
the NBA.
Speaker 7 (48:28):
For me, I remember walking off and in the locker room.
Speaker 15 (48:32):
The fans I think stayed there maybe five to ten
minutes after the game, still chanting my name. As a player,
your ego always gets some gets in the way of
gets the best of you sometime, but this is the
one time the ego.
Speaker 7 (48:43):
Was just like, yeah, you deserve this dog. And for me, man,
it was it's like when I go to meet my maker,
I want that video played at my funeral.
Speaker 15 (48:56):
It's the best moment, like, you know, in my basketball career,
you know that shot, doing it in the Laker uniform
for one of the greatest franchises ever.
Speaker 7 (49:03):
Man, it's extra special.
Speaker 5 (49:07):
It's hard to explain the faith that you have, like
because it's just it's always seemed something would change the tide.
And whether that was you know, Phil changing you know,
like his substitutions, or Kobe's determination and will Shacks physical dominance,
(49:32):
something would break open and then there'd be this like okay,
we're making a run. Okay, you know, and oh we're
catching up. Now we're only down by twelve. And then
when you have somebody like Robert or who is so
underrated the fact that he could win in so many
different roles and so many different offenses and contribute to
(49:57):
championship teams in various organsanizations like that doesn't happen, you know,
like it's it's so rare, and he's one of them,
and him not afraid to take that big shot.
Speaker 8 (50:11):
Christy inbounds to Weber underneath tiped away by the Lakers,
Fisher has.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
It and the King came close, game seven overtime.
Speaker 8 (50:20):
To the world champion Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
But the Lake Show wasn't over. An anti climactic sweep
of the nets.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
Swing again, the open shot up again.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
And the Lakers had their three people, three p.
Speaker 6 (50:37):
And a sweep for the world champion Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 8 (50:42):
Phil Jackson has won for his night NBA Championship.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
The Purple and Gold standard upheld. As you look back
on it, what do you think was the hardest part
of achieving a three peat? Because it hasn't been done since.
You might have made it look easy the Lakers, but
it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (51:08):
Well, you can see it like we didn't win four
in a row, and then what happens isn't you know?
I would I would think the Warriors, you know, and
the Bowls of the nineties, they could talk about what
happens just internally that you know, Phil even has a
saying there there isn't enough success to go around the
(51:30):
success of the team that all of a sudden, any
ego gets involved, Well, they wouldn't have won without that,
you know, Robert or hitting that shot. You know my contracts, Uh,
where am I getting paid? And it's really difficult to
sustain that kind of success, you know, it it carries
(51:52):
its own weight and you know, you like to think
that it would fortify you, but it's it's a leading
time and you got to make the most of it
and try to maximize the amount of wins that you
can get.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
You know, there's a lot of ways to look back
on the past, right and you can look back on
that era and say, wow, had Shack and Kobe say together,
there would be even more rings. Or you can look
back and say that's the way it was meant to be.
How do you look back on that in retrospect? What's
your perspective?
Speaker 5 (52:26):
I think, you know, with the experience that I have,
what I'd like to share with the younger people, the
younger players in our organization is enjoy the moment. You know,
it's so hard to get there, and it's really special
when you do like, savor it, savor it as long
(52:49):
as you can. And what I really loved about Phil
was every year he would start a season, no matter
you know, who was coming back, who leaving, he would
start a season like, Okay, here's how we win a championship.
Some years it was, you know, kind of like a
(53:09):
straight line to the championship. And sometimes literally you're going
to have to climb the Himalayas in order to win
a championship. That's how hard it's going to be. But
there's always a chance that we can. We can win this,
and here's how we're going to do it. And this
is what I need from you, and each player set
their expectations. Here's here's how you're going to contribute to
(53:33):
us winning. And you know that that's really a message
that I try to pass to to everyone involved in
this organization. And and why I was so against teams
who would tank, Like tanking is uh saddling coaches and
(53:54):
players with losing records that have nothing seem to do
with them, and like the arrogance of a front office
to say, we don't think we can win a championship,
so we're going to just pile on and be as
bad as possible. It's such a disservice to people who
(54:15):
have spent their entire life trying to win.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Is there a part of you that wishes, maybe a
large part of you, that people would stop focusing on
the Kobe and Shack relationship and appreciate what they accomplished
together rather than the differences that they had when they
were both young men. I mean, Kobe is a teenager
coming into the league. Certainly the two of them put
(54:45):
that to rest, but I'm wondering their perspective on it.
Speaker 5 (54:48):
Yeah, you know, it just it's as time goes on,
it will it won't be the story that people will
want to talk about. Then want to talk about what
they did accomplish together, you know. And I know that
they had appreciation and the love for each other. I
(55:10):
saw it, you know, not in front of the cameras.
They really really did appreciate each other and support each other.
And you know, I even you know, when Shaquille said,
Sharif had, you know, his heart surgery. You know, Kobe
was like the first one to check on him, and
(55:32):
they really had a special bond and they knew it.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
That Lakers team was the last in the NBA to
three peat. The Shaq Kobe era ended in two thousand
and four, Shaq traded to the Miami Heat, where he
would win another title. As Kobe led the Lakers to
two more championships. Genie gave him a forty eight and
a half million dollar contract late in his career, coming
off an Achilles injury. He retired wearing the Bull and Gold,
(56:01):
dropping a magical sixty points in his final game.
Speaker 6 (56:04):
From one last gamer, Ryan are the moves with the
jump berd He fine fifty eight points and the Lakers leave.
Speaker 4 (56:16):
I can't believe it's come to an end.
Speaker 18 (56:19):
You guys will always be in my heart and I sincerely,
sincerely appreciate it. No words can describe how I phil
about you guys, and uh, thank you, Thank you from
the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
God, I love you guys, and uh, I love you guys.
What can I say, mambou?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
How gratifying is it for you? Because of the family
aspect of the Lakers, that Kobe was able to be
a Laker for his entire career, That's just an incredible
accomplishment and also rare.
Speaker 5 (56:57):
He loved the Lakers so much and I am so
grateful that, you know, he spent his entire career as
a Laker, because he could have easily failed or asked
to be traded. He didn't. He stuck it out for
twenty years, and that we were able to retire his
(57:21):
jerseys and celebrate him so that he would you know,
there was no doubt how much we loved him as
fans and as an organization, and we got that opportunity
to celebrate him and retire both his members, and you know,
(57:43):
I'm grateful that we had that.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
The Lakers remain essentially a family business, from doctor Buss
to Jeanie to the stars treated Lake family and manifested
in a tangible way in this year's NBA Draft.
Speaker 12 (57:59):
With a fifty fifth pick in the twenty twenty four
NBA Draft, the Los Angeles Lakers select Ronnie James from
the University of Southern California.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
It does always kind of go back to a family.
You know, you would go into the press conferences afterwards,
and maybe it's because it was really run by a family.
You know, you and your dad, your brother there did
feel like that extended to the players.
Speaker 5 (58:24):
You know, I saw it on the other side when
when you know, I dated Phil for fifteen years, and
so when I was his significant other, I learned how
to look at the team through the lens of a coach.
And I remember getting in a fight with him because
he was bringing the team in on Thanksgiving to practice,
(58:46):
and I'm like, why are you doing that? Give them
one day off? And he said, Genie, what I'm trying
to show them by having them practice on Thanksgiving and
they'll have enough time to go home and have their
dinner with their family. But I wanted to. I want
to establish that this is their family as well, and
(59:09):
that's a that's powerful. When a coach can harness that
and create that family dynamic, then then you know you
have something really special.
Speaker 1 (59:20):
The genesis of this podcast was because I wanted to
tell my father's story as a former commissioner of the
a BA. And that's something that you and I have
always gone in common, how inspired we were by our
dads and how our dads change our lives. When you
think about your dad today as we sit here, what's
(59:41):
the first thing that comes to mind?
Speaker 5 (59:43):
You know how passionate he was about the Lakers team,
and you know, winning and building something that was his
dream and accomplishing the goal of making the Lakers want
of the most dominant teams in the NBA, because he
(01:00:05):
felt that there was such a bias with the East
Coast media that teams on the West Coast really didn't
get their due. And you know, he really had something
to prove, and he did it. He proved it. So
he's just really remarkable.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Next time on NBA DNA, The Doves Dynasty NBA DNA
with Hannah Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts, The
NBA and Brainstorm and Productions. The show is written and
(01:00:50):
executive produced by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver
and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver.
Our senior are Peter Kowder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese.
Editing and sound design by Kurt Garren and Julia Weaver.
The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean
(01:01:13):
ty Tone, Steve Wintraup, and Jason Weikelt
Host
Hannah Storm
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