1984 - Lakers vs Celtics (Part 1)

Hosted by 7-time champion Robert Horry and Jabari Davis, NBA Finals File dives deep into the greatest Finals series in NBA history, breaking down the best moments, storylines and matchups, using rare archival audio from the NBA, and the personal touch that only "Big Shot Bob" can give. 

In this episode of NBA Finals File, we examine the 1984 Finals, Lakers vs Celtics. A seven-game battle that changed the NBA forever, featuring a ton of future Hall-of-Famers and the most intense rivalry in the NBA. Magic Johnson and the Lakers facing Larry Bird and Celtics, the matchup the world had been waiting for since they met in college 5 years earlier. Jabari and Rob discuss the Lakers "Showtime" offense, dealing with the physicality of the Celtics, the crazy heat in the Boston Garden, and in part two, "Big Game" James Worthy will join the show to talk about the series he still has nightmares about to this day.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to NBA Finals File with Robert Ry and
Jabari Davis. Hey, it's Robert Orri and I am excited
to be here. I played sixties season NBA and doing
at sixteen years span. I won seven titles with some
great teams, played with some great players. Guy is off
the charts. I'm so excited to be in to break

(00:37):
down another NBA Finals file. Fun James, the Prime James
with the rejection. And I'm still the guy who grew
up in Los Angeles watching the showtime Lakers. I came
of age watching Rob and his exploits with the Shack
and Kobe Lakers, and now I'm here sitting here talking
to you about the NBA Finals. So life, Your life
really can't be much better than this. We had a

(00:58):
great time breaking down the twenty thirteen finals last week,
you know, so we definitely appreciate each of you for
tuning in again this week as will continue deep diving
into the greatest NBA Finals matchups in history. This week
series will be finals between the Boston Celtics and the
Los Angeles Lakers, which, you know, honestly, regardless of where
the team standing at a given time, I still think

(01:19):
that remains the most famous rivalry in NBA history, and
this rival is gonna go down in history is one
of the greatest all sports. But you know what, tomorrow
fun to think about this series. And there was a
period in the NBA where they talked about the scoring.
I think it was like nineteen ninety between in two thousands,
where the scoring is that in this series, you think

(01:40):
about this, this is what the Lakers average over a
hundred and twenty points in this series and the Boston
Celtics average over a hundred and ten points in this series.
So the score was up, okay, with nobody say it was.
Scoring was up. So I'm excited to deep dive into
this one. Honestly. That's the thing about the showtime Lakers.
They were bringing extremely exciting style of basketball. And I'm

(02:03):
not saying that, you know, the eighties weren't exciting beyond them,
but their you know, their brand was definitely you know
my cup of tea, it was, you know, get up
and play basketball. Was that. It's you know, it's just
starting the peak. You know, the Lakers are bringing in showtime,
the Celtics are bringing in the tradition. The thing about
the Celtics. People don't realize that team got out and
ran two with d J, you know, Maxwell and of

(02:25):
course Bird. That team put up some points and they say,
if it works for the Lakers, it can work for
us too. You know, it's interesting that you that you
mentioned that there's a point in this series that we're
gonna get you later. You know, later in the conversation
were deep. To be honest with you, it is basically
the Celtics doing exactly that. They beat the Lakers at
their own game and it was kind of crazy to see.
And on that note, later in the show, we'll be
joined by Hall of Famer and three time champ with

(02:47):
these Lakers, a man who knows firsthand what you know
what this series was like, Big Game, James Worthy. I'm
not gonna lie to you. I'm extremely excited and and
happy that you were able to land Big Game for this.
You know, I work with Big Game. Uh. We covered
the because and the crazy thing about this is I
didn't know James got down the floor like that. Man.
He was quick man. So it's gonna be exciting to

(03:08):
talk to him about this. Because we talked about the
current Lakes. We never really talked about the past LA
is because you know, growing up a Laker fan, you
watched him in the showtime, you watched him play, and
now they really get to get inside of his dome
and understand the intricacies of this game in this series
and how they used to play with Magic and Kareem.
Think about this, Kareem Man probably the best player to

(03:31):
ever played this game. I know people gonna say what
about MJ, But Kareem he changed the game. So I'm
excited for this one. Absolutely absolutely. Okay, So another thing,
another aspect of this that I really love and let
me I'm wondering if you were in the same place.
I really loved watching the old footage of this series.
To be honest with you, I was instantly transported back
in time as soon as I heard that CBS. You
know the tone underneath everybody and welcome to the Boston Garden.

(03:54):
I'm Brian Muster Parker. Five years ago, Magic Johnson out
of Michigan State Larry Bird out of Indiana State. They
had played for the n c a A Championship. Magic
and Michigan State had won. Now in each of the
last four NBA World Championship Series, either Magic or Bird
has competed, but this is the first time that the
two have gone head to head for the time. It's

(04:16):
I'm not chump that everyone has waited for. Since Magic
and Bird broke into the NBA, the Celtics and the
Lakers have played each other ten times and they are
dead even five victories of Peach like classic show down
the Celtics and the Lakers murdered against Magic. Do you
remember those when you know what those Sunday morning games were, Like,
I'm glad you brought that up, because when I was watching,

(04:37):
I'm like, Okay, this is great coverage. You know, the
game is fast, is old school basketball. They taking hard fouls,
they're getting up, they're not complaining. And then you get
the broadcast and you listen to Tommy Heinson, I'm like, god, dude,
can you stop giving the Celtics all a little But
that's just how it is, Like, can you get somebody

(04:57):
else on this his broadcast? But that would make the
game so great, though, because you've got guys who fell
in love with teams and they were still doing the
broadcasting thing and you wanted the other team to make
that guy come up with some good words to say
about the other team, and it was so hard for Tommy.
But this was a great series. It took me back
to the days, like you said, of you know, old

(05:17):
school basketball, just loving it, watching it and just embracing
this is I think this series is this series that
made me really become a Magic Johnson's fan, really and
it's okay. So it's interesting that that is the case,
especially given, you know, when you're so far removed from it. Uh,
you know, the it's called the Tragic Series. But I'm

(05:37):
gonna be honest with you. As I went through this,
as I went through the footage, and you know, and
I can already see you know, super super producer Peter
in the background shaking his head. But when I went
through the series, I honestly said, you know, Magic was
not bad in this series. He has some moments. I'm
not going to sugarcoat it. I'm you know, there's no
way to get around it. He has some moments, you know,
as well as some other guys had some moments with that.

(05:58):
You know, they're definitely appeared to play, you know, play
a role in the outcome. But in terms of the
in terms of the actual battle, it was really was fantastic.
It was fantastic. And you think about guys like Danny Ainge,
who was key to the Celtics, uh lord later on,
he wasn't even a factor in this series. Him and
be Scott were like rookies, fresh on the scene, playing

(06:21):
you know, miniature roles in this series. And you think
about guys like Bird and Magic who's been balanced since college,
and you know, Magic getting the best of him in college.
Now Bird says, you know what, I'm gonna get my
get back on the bigger stage. And you know, we
we always talk about you know, Kareem and Magic and
Bird and and you know the late great Dennis Johnson.

(06:42):
But you know who really impressed me in this series
was Robert chief Parish. He went to work, he held
his own against career, not saying that he matched Cream
number for number, but he held his own. I mean,
there's a reason why he's a Hall of Famer. And
on that note, let's actually talk about quickly discussed the
historical significance of the matchup. If I'm not mistaken, there
were ten Hall of Famers involved involved in the series,

(07:03):
including the coaches, but for a historical perspective from nineteen
fifty nine eight seven, the Lakers and the Celtics competed
in over a third of the of all finals against
one another. And I'll be honest with you that sounds
crazy to say, but one third of all finals played
during that stretch we're between the were between these two teams.
But the truth is those early Celtics teams absolutely dominated.

(07:26):
You know this rivalry young Lakers fans, They may not,
you know, fully understand the anguish of the sixties. You know,
since the Lakers have if we're being honest, they've won
three of the last four finals matchups. But if you
include the nine Minneapolis Lakers, which the Lakers do with obviously,
Boston had previously owned Los Angeles to the tune of
a six and old record in the in the finals

(07:46):
at the time that these teams twear it off. Let
me bring it to you with this, What has this
rivalry been to you given the fact that you played
six and a half years with the Lakers, and honestly,
as a fan of the NBA in general, I think
for me, being a big fan of basketball, a big
fans in be a you look at this rival and
it's great for basketball. Even though I didn't get a
chance to playing against the Celtics in the finals. Um.

(08:08):
I was kind of upset about that because you want
to you want the history. You want people to reach
back to Red, you want people to reach back to
pat Riley and the Lakers. You want this to be
talked about so you can, you know, stake your claim
in NBA history because these teams have a historical battles
are going back back. You just mentioned all the times
the Celtics have denied the Lakers of championship. Was exciting

(08:32):
for me and for me to sit back and and
relive this moment. I was like a little kid again,
remember sitting in front of the TV and my grandma
was a boy when this game gonna be over with
so I can watch something else, you know. It was
just fun to watch this game and relive it and
and watch why I became a Magic fan, and watch
why Michael Cooper should be in the Hall of Fame,
and watch all these little things that went on the game.

(08:54):
And to get ready to talk to James Worthy about
the Worthy span and how quick he was on the
block and on the wing. It's I'm giddy, man, That's
all I can say. I'm giddy, but I'm getting I'm
ready for this, man, Rob, I can tell you right now,
I woke up four hours early for this because we're
in We're in the same boat. We're in the same boat.
So let's go ahead and let's go and discuss kind
of how the team's got here as we did in

(09:16):
you know, with the first series. On the Celtic side
of things. The previous year they were swept by the
Bucks in the semifinals. This, you know, for this particular
season they finished sixty two and twenty first in the
Atlantic Division. Their path to the finals was a three
one victory over the Bullets. You know, shout out to
you know, shout out to the old Bullets. You know
now that you know Wassington Wizards obviously a four or

(09:37):
three victory over the Knicks, and then a four one
victory over the Bucks. Can right here. People don't understand
that Knicks team with Bernard King and that was something special, man.
But no King, if you go back and dive into
that that series, you know Bernard King played with dislocated
fingers and was still getting buckets. Maybe you know, there's

(10:00):
no question about it. He keeps rubbing them try and
probably to get some filling back into them. So I
saw all I'm gonna say about that. So if people
want to deep dive into that one, you need to
go watch that series. And then you know, bringing it
back to this, for the Lakers previous year they were
swept in the finals. By the six years they finished
fifty this particular season and for people don't know, foos

(10:25):
Moses Malone line when he said fo fo fo and
that's when you rock the baby and put the baby
to see that's the doctor J dunk too. So it's
so many outstanding things about that. Even though they got swept,
people look at that because you had the doctor, you
had Moses. Lakers fans might not want to look into it,
but it was good for basketball. It's one of those

(10:45):
where when you when you're a fan of the team
an organization like the Lakers, you know that you're gonna
have a lot of highs, but you also understand you're
in the spotlight a lot. There's gonna be some of
those moments too, you just have you just and to
be honest with you, this series that we're about to
break out as one of those is one of those
moments exactly. And then you know, for the Lakers side
of things again, you know, once again, they finished fifty

(11:07):
four and twenty eight. They were first in the Pacific
Division that season. Their path to the finals, and and
this one threw me off because I had actually forgotten
that the Kings came from Kansas City. They swept the
Kings in the first round three oh uh, they were
four one over the Mavericks in the second round, and
in the Western Conference finals they took the Sons for two. Yeah,
they had they had a great run. And when you

(11:29):
are a team and you get hot down the stretch,
you look at that run, you know, it really wasn't
challenge like the Celtics were. So that means you should
have a little bit more rest, and you should. You
you're peeking at the right time and you should be
ready to deep dive into this next series and be
ready for them. And coming out to Gate, the Lakers were,
they were, they were, you know, we were the favorite

(11:50):
and we made our wait, they one of the East,
we won the West. So it's like, everybody, just get ready,
sit back, and let's enjoy it. And actually, before we
jump into game one, let's talk about just quickly the
coaching matchup. Because we've got Casey Jones and pat Riley,
both of which you know. Okay, So from Casey Jones
side of things, those of us that go, you know,

(12:11):
go back with this rival. We know he's along. He's
a lifelong Celtic. But one thing that I had forgotten,
or you know that I might, I may not have
ever known he actually got His coaching career started as
a Lakers assistant coach during the seventy two season when
the Lakers beat the Knicks for that title. But this
was jones first year as Boston's head coach, and it
was actually the start of an impressive four year stretch

(12:32):
where Boston represented the Eastern Conference in the finals, ultimately
winning two of them along the way. Can you speak
to Casey Jones and his importance as a coach. You know,
I never got a chance to meet Casey Jones, and
he watching him coach, you would never know he was
coaching in the game. His demeanor was always the same.
He kept it cool, he kept it calm. And for

(12:53):
him to be able to come into that arena, especially Boston,
and for them fans to embrace him because we know
Boston it is not the easiest place for a brother,
and for him to take over the reins as the
coach for the Celtics and lead him to the championship
was It was amazing because, you know, my hats off
to a guy who can go into that type of
pressure and scrutiny and come out on top absolutely without question.

(13:15):
You hear some of the you know, this is not
a secret. You hear some of the stories that Bill
Russell endured and some of the other players have endured.
It is absolutely that much more impressive that Casey Jones
was able to do that. I also want to give
shots out to Red are Back for having the guts
to hire him, because it has to start somewhere, and
for Red are Back to say, you know what, Casey Jones,
you got to him because this team can win a

(13:35):
championship under your leadership. You know what, You're exactly right
and more than anything. And look, I never met Red
are Back. I never had you never had the pleasure.
He seemed like a guy that was all about winning.
It's as simple as that. If you, if you, if
you were able to, if you were able to put
him in a position to win, he was going to
back you. And I can, I can absolutely respect and
appreciate that. So from the from the Lakers side of things,

(13:56):
before we hit this break, you know, Riley, he was
actually in the midst of another very sim the four
year stretch where the Lakers represented the Western Conference and
you know, four consecutive years and they wound up winning
two titles along the way. But extending you know, Riley's
run a bit further, his Lakers ultimately one and won
the West seven of eight times and grabbed four titles
over the entire run. I'll be honest with you, even

(14:18):
though I knew, you know, I know how successful pat
Riley has been obviously, you know, with the Lakers and
then beyond you like, you know, for the last thirty
years afterwards. But there's just something about that winning the
West at that time seven out of eight times is
just absolutely impressive to me. Yeah, when you you look
at his career, it doesn't get talked about enough. You know,
he one with the Lakers, almost one with the Knicks.

(14:40):
Now he wanted the franchise in Manmi. He's a winner
and he has the former where he goes. And when
you have the former guys kind of buying into your system,
you think about it he coached some of the greatest
players that played his game, and he's one of the
greatest coaches. He won a championship as a player, he
won championships as a coach. He won championship as a GM.
You know, next thing he got win championship as an

(15:01):
owner or something else. But the guy, when here he goes,
winning follows him. And when winning follows you get to respect.
You get respect of all the players in the league,
and respect of all the coaches, GMS, everybody. And he
has that empowerment to bring people together and how guys,
you know, put aside their egos and play as one.
It's as simple as that. And on that note, let's

(15:23):
take a quick break before we get into more pat
Riley stuff and come back and discuss the first couple
of games of the series here on the NBA Finals file.
All right, we set the table for the series pretty
well at this stage, but let's go ahead and dive
into game one. So Game one is in Boston, and

(15:43):
this is significant because not only you know, with Boston
thirty three and eight on the year at home this season,
you just didn't walk into the Old Garden in the
playoffs and get very many wins. At least we got
the game in our court, and uh, our fans will
be hyped up and it'll be fun. Rob, I'm interested.
Where's the toughest clone route or advantage that you ever faced?
For me, it was Sacramento Sacramento Kings because the arena

(16:07):
was a small arena, college like atmosphere. The cousters were bad,
and it was one point in time when Phil Jackson
called it a cow bell town and everybody in the arena.
The next time we played their party in cow bells
and we could not hear Phiel call out plays. We
could not hear him do his patent at whistle. So

(16:28):
that was one of those arenas you're like, man, this
thing is loud. But at the end of the day,
when you got Kobe and Shock on your team, the
crowd quickly go side. Yeah, they found a way to
shut him up one way, exactly right. So keeping it
with this series, in Game one, the Lakers actually jumped
out to a fast start and Kareem really asserted himself.
He starts the game five for five, and he does

(16:49):
it in a variety of ways, including getting in transition.
You're punishing him, You're punishing Boston along the baseline, and
of course he's utilizing the patented sky hook you know
from the midpost. But Rob, I was really surprised with
how mobile Kareem still was at this stage when I
was going through the footage of this series. Ahareem abdul
Jabbar revitalized and the oldest player at age thirty seven
in the playoffs has five of the nine points from

(17:11):
the Lakers. So far, he has won an NBA title
for two franchises, Milwaukee and Los Angeles. People were trying
to retire him, and I guess they still are, but
he still has that sky over, the great competitive stir,
best season he's had in a long time, exceptionally well
this year he did that stand down to you as well.
It did thirty seven years old, able to get up
and down the court, um balance migraines throughout this this series.

(17:34):
You don't taught me. The physical conditions of the two
teams are pretty good shape right now. However, Kareem Abdul Jabbar,
who has had migraine headaches which are effective in the past,
he has not had a migraine all year, but today
he has. He did not show up for the pregame
meal this morning or the Laker workout early today. He
says he's feeling better and he's going to play, but
that is a factor. Kareem had a more concrete description

(17:57):
of his frequent migraine attack. It's like a physical mechanical
thing like Jire's being out a line and for him
to be able to do a little moves and sky hook. Man.
I don't think fans or even players understand how pretty
that skuy hook was. And it never I think nine

(18:17):
times I tend it was nothing but the bottom of
the net. It never hit the rim. It was his
patent shot that he went to and nobody could block it.
I'm gonna ask you this. I was gonna I was
gonna say it for later. But why isn't that No
one practices that? Now? I know that there's that one
small garden league. He just got a call up from
the from the g league doing it, But by and large,
nobody does it. Why is it? It's a difficult shot man, Okay,

(18:39):
that's what people don't understand, you know, That's why it
was hard to block. To master that, you've got to
be very skilled. And Kareem think about that. He is
so skilled in so many areas of the game that
you know, he can, you know, hit you with a
jump hook and he hit your job step. He can
get out in field, the lanes. But the sky hook.
That's why he has his whole little organization called the

(19:00):
sky because nobody can repeat that movement because it's too hard.
It's too difficult to learn. It's crazy to think that
it's too difficult to learn. But I'm gonna take your
word for it. I'm gonna absolutely take your word for it.
It's it's but to your to your point, it's such
a beautiful shot and such a perfect weapon. It's just
it's always going to be one of those things that
I wish we saw more of. But anyhow, in this series,

(19:23):
you know, so Kareem starts off five for five, and
like you know, as we already mentioned, he's dominating him.
But your bar and I love pust position. There's an
automatic two with the sky hook, and his passing may
come into play. As he's doubled team more and more
isolated him and Karen with the sky harder throws them
on us wine for five now eleven points. He is
the highest bar in the long game, but even when

(19:44):
Boston adjusted and they started sinking in on Kareem or
doubling him on the catch. Guys started stepping in the
open mid range, you know, and three point shots and
knocking them down. Listen, a fast fight on the town.
And they did it enough to keep Boston's defense honest
throughout the you know, throughout the works of this game.
This is the thing about basketball. When you have a
dominant guy that's killing people in the post, you don't

(20:06):
want to let him keep getting buckets. You want to
try to stop him. So you're gonna, you know, double
team and you try to pick someone who is not
the best shooter to leave open. In Game one, they
left guys open. You had guys rookie by the name
of Byrus Scott go for four team, and you had
Cooper with for eleven. And these guys were coming off

(20:27):
the bench knocking out Jay's They wasn't shooting the long
ball like to do with this damn age, but it
was knocking down mid ranges and that was keeping everybody honest.
And then also allowed you know, Worthy and Magic, those
other two Hall of famers to go off. Larry Byrd
against Cooper Johnson doubles understand by team. It's worth all
the way he could take care of the Corton just

(20:48):
rides Tommy. That's the fastest power forward I know in
the NBA, and that's been for a long long time.
In a lot of ways, he's revolutionized the position. Okay,
so I actually going this is gonna be one of
those moments where I take up for Magic a little bit.
One of the things that I did notice as well,
because again, you know, the knock on Magic was oh, well,
you couldn't shoot it. It really to me was that

(21:10):
the shot looked like a shot put, but it went
in and was effective, especially when he needed it to be.
Magic success on so far hitting from outside, and he
continues to be sold. He has eight points out and
it's a twenty six game. Phoenix made that strategy work
back and down on dreaming, allowing the outside shots for
the Lakers getting over here today. You know, it's it's
so many people that talk about, oh, he couldn't shoot,

(21:32):
but he could score. He can get other people to
score and through. This was early in Magic's career. I
think it was his fifth year in the league, and
he was still learning the game too. He's learning how
to play and learning how to shoot the rock, because
as you get older as the NBA player, your shot
becomes more consistent. You have you have more confidence in
your shot. You know, when I watched Magic, I can

(21:55):
only think of a guy by the name of Jason
Kidd that kind of came in the same situation as Mad.
Magic wasn't a very good shoot. By the time he
left the league, he was a good shooter. And that's
how Magic was he started. He wasn't a good shooting.
I think sometimes when you've got guys like Magic and
Jason Kidd, they're so into trying to make other people
around them better. All they're doing is focus on getting

(22:15):
you the ball in the right spot for you to score,
and they forget that they need to score sometimes, And
like you said, nobody get you know, really nobody in
there's a league as a finished product. So it's it's
really a testament to those to the greatness of those
players to continue to develop over the course of the
of the course of their careers. In this game, Boston's
actually cuts l A's lead down with seven seconds left
in the first half on a on a pair of

(22:36):
bird free throws, but then Magic happens to pick up
his third foul on the play where and Riley brings
Cooper off the bench. Now you already know, I already
know how much of a fan of Cooper as you are.
A good outlet pass from Rambis hits Worthy and stride
and he finds Cooper you four three right before the
halftime buzzer. My question to you is this, I know
that you know plenty of folks will tell you that

(22:57):
there's no such thing as momentum when it comes to sports.
When you tell me, what does a last second shot
like that due to you? You know, like as the
opposing team after you, particularly after you fought back and
chopped down a big lead. Sometimes as athletes we have
that little devil or angel on the shoulders and saying it,
whispering it, it's meant to be. And when you believe

(23:18):
something is meant to be, it can carry you over
into the next half or or the next game or
whatever it may be. And when you hit a shot
like that, it's almost like a sign like, uh, it's
meant to beg you know, and and and it's a
momentum thing. And when you guys like even you go
back to when I played some Mirky Walker hits the shot,

(23:39):
you know against the Sacramento Kings. It's like, Ah, we're
meant to We're meant to win this game. It's a
confidence builder. It gets you riled up and you go
into halftime feeling good. It's the worst thing is going
to halftime down by a lot of points and you
feel demoralized and you can't do anything. But when you
hit a shot at the buzzer like that, especially difficult shot, uh,

(24:00):
it's like it's meant to be. So it's a feel
good thing that does make sense, you know from the
from the fans perspective, we definitely believe in momentum and
things of that nature. But I always wondered, you know,
from the player's side of things, you know what that
feels like. So Boston comes out in the third quarter
and they do but you know, they go to work.
Mikhael does a lot of damage. You know, he's punishing
in the Lakers, you know, in the in the interior,

(24:22):
but the Lakers that are really good job of making
life difficult for Burden this game. To be honest with you,
this was probably the only game where he struggled. He
starts the game off two for nine, the Celtics trying
to get Larry Birth the ball and a low post
to try and take advantage of Michael Cooper. It's much smaller,
but he's not having his game today. Larry b. You know,
he does finish, you know, seven for seventeen and grabs

(24:43):
fourteen rebounds. So make no mistake about it. Birds still
gonna make an impact on the game, but for this
game in particular, by comparison, you know, to how he
performed in the rest of the in the rest of
the series, do you think it was really just a
matter of him like kind of finding the sea legs
or or or just figuring out how to attack, you know,
these Lakers. You know, sometimes guys just start off slow,
and when you're the type of player like Bird, you're

(25:04):
gonna try to get everybody else involved and make the
game easier for you. All the great ones have done that.
And then Bird is one of the best players that
ever played this game. You know, watching him in this series,
I'm like man, Bird could shoot the ball and he
didn't force a lot of shots in this series. He
took with the defense gave him, and that what was important.

(25:24):
You know, if I'm a Celtics fan. At this moment,
I'd be like, no, Bird, take over, take more shots.
But at this day and age, he was getting the
ball to pass. She was getting the ball too. Maxwell.
He was getting to ballto McHale, who had twenty five
points in this game. So you have to say, sometimes
it's not all about me, it's about we. And Bird
knows how to pick a spot. Like you said, I
like a lot of great players. They know when to

(25:44):
step up. Money on the line. Who's the greatest small
forward for you? Let me get your top three, my
top three? Um, it depends. Yeah, it's okay, now it's
not that's hard. Now I'm not in that top five.
I'm skinned. But Scotti, Pippen Um, he's probably gonna be
my number one. And I'm not just going you know,
a lot of people want to go by stats. I'm

(26:05):
going by what I like, what I who in my
top um, Dominique wilkins Um and then the last is
Grant Hill. I think Grant Hill before he got injured
and all these things, he was a dynamic type of player.
I hated guarding him. But those are my three top
small force. You know, so because nowadays you know, it's
Lebron is small forward, he's a power for it is

(26:25):
Katie and small for it is a powerful and so
many other guys now. But for me, I'm going with
the generation I played in and the guys I played against.
It's almost like you can see my face and see
and see the gears grinding, and I was like, wait
a second, what about Lebron? What about k D? What
about But if you're considering them more power forwards, I
can I can see that. I know people are probably
gonna think I'm saying it because I was a small

(26:46):
for it, But to me, small force are always the
best players in the game because they have to do
a little bit of everything. They have to you know,
sometimes bring it up. They got to score in the paint,
they got scoring the outside. They are the utility guys
of the NBA and they do everything. Yeah, I don't
think anybody, I don't think anybody's gonna be mad at
you for that one. But they may be mad at
you for you know, they're gonna they're gonna accuse us

(27:09):
of gate keeping in terms of the you know, the positioning,
you know, with you know, with Larry Bird, because he's
considered a small forward, and Lebron, even though I know
he plays, you know, he plays big for it, he's
still considered a small forward. But outside of you know that,
that's what makes lists of that nature fun for me,
because there's no definitive list. It's all a matter, you know,
it's all a matter, all the matter of opinion. Now,
now if you actually my top five players of all time,

(27:30):
Lebron is gonna be in that list, then you can
be like, why is in that Listen not to top
small for because these are my small forwards. Okay, that
is fair, That is fair, all right. So you know,
so as I mentioned your Boston, they're they're fighting back
throughout the third, they keep it relatively close. In the fourth,
we get down to it just about a minute, you know,
just just just under two minutes, and we have a

(27:52):
we have a scenario where Michaal blocks McAdoo on a
baseline jumper, like I said, just under a minute forty
and winds up actually controlling it. He pushes it a head,
pushes it up to court the cedric Maxwell alas looking
at win on the road and take a one. Nothing
in the series, Macal strips I could do with the ball.
Here's Maxwell, you can handle it, hollow, Yeah, in the basket,

(28:13):
do good offensive foul. Magic actually hustles back and takes
what honestly was a pivotal charge on the play, because
not only would the shot have cut the lead down
the three, but Magic would have actually fouled out if
the call goes the other way. Maxwell can't believe it.
There was plenty of opportunity to get it back into

(28:34):
the middle. It looked like makes decide you're gonna take
it on his own. Let's see what happened, And there
was Magic in perfect position, and he did it with
five personal zone. On the next defensive possession, Kareem you know,
comes up with a steel on Dennis Johnson, pushes the
head to Cooper for the dunk and essentially puts the

(28:55):
game out of reach and important possession for the Boston Celtics,
important defensive molding for the Lakers, and the Lakers turning
to get it. Kareem to cooler, I'm pick bucket, I'm
pick basket. That's Koreem My Bulsar. I see they played
Dennis Johnson for the drive and they closed everything down.
There wasn't much room for him to make a pass

(29:16):
seven point lead with under a minute to go. The
Lakers win this game one fifteen, one on nine, But
the Los Angeles Lakers one in Boston and the nine
game playoffs drinking home, and I've beaten the Boston Celtics
one fifteen, the one on nine to take hey one
a nothing lead. How are you feeling, And obviously you
didn't play in this series, but how are you feeling
in the Lakers position having gone in Game one, stolen

(29:39):
home court advantage, and in particular in the old school
of Boston Garden. That's what you said, the old school
Boston Garden where it's hard to win. It was hard
to win there even when I played in the Garden.
But you have to look at this game. You always
want to take a game one because that can let
you know who you are as a team, especially going

(30:00):
and on to someone else's court and take that very
especially Boston. This is your rival. This is a team
you hate. This is a team that tries to take
you out, not just mentally but physically. So you're going
and you get game one. It's a motivation factor. It's
a scared tactic is to let you know, Hey, those
six years we lost to you. It ain't happened again

(30:22):
for the Laker's sake. If only that were the truth,
I know, right, but fair enough, fair enough, that's how
That's how I would have felt about it. Absolutely. So
now let's go to Game two. Now, this is a
must win situation for the Celtics, because you can't go
down O two at home against especially against a team
that's rolling at the level that the Lakers are rolling
at that point. So Boston jumps out to an early

(30:42):
double digit lead, seven or not, think Boston, it's come
out of the ship right hot. I think the Celtics
got off to just the type of stuff they wanted,
and they have caught the Lakers a little bit by surprise,
unlike Game one, only to see the Lakers fight back
and cut it to within two with a half Celtic later.
At one time, thirteen has been cops to four, and
it's concerning the Boston's side and Korean hacks it in

(31:03):
the hands of Cooper and here's worthy and the Lakers
have come all the way back to them too, and
the Celtics has stunt. They're like a fire that's been
knocked out. The sounds and the Los Angeles Lakers with
a thirteen to two run. Winding up this first half,

(31:26):
I've given the Boston Celtics something to think about. Magic
and Birder each phenomenal in game two, big game again,
like as we mentioned, we're going to be speaking to
him later. He was absolutely on fire throughout and he
actually winds up shooting eleven for twelve from the floor
where he got a pass from Matchick Johnson, and that's
the best passing the ball game inside, and then go
back to the locker room and decide by lottery who's

(31:49):
gonna god Worthy because nobody seems to know where he is.
I had to double check that three or four times
because I thought, no, there's no way he Yeah, eleven
for twelve from the floor in the final Joe James Worthy,
who missed the first shot of the game, and then
he hit and it was pretty much an evenly fought
game across the board. Yeah, you know, you talk about
the Celtics had to win this game. As much as

(32:09):
we know how hard it is to win the guarden,
it's just as hard to win in the forum. So
if you're the Celtics, and you know, if you lose
this game you're down oh two, and you go up
into the forum, you might always just say, hey, you know,
we get to go fishing, because you're not gonna win
two games in the form with you know, the Celtics
battled hard in this game and to that point, you know,

(32:30):
I actually want to credit Casey Jones because he did
he did something that actually I feel like you kind
of changed the momentum of this game. The Lakers were
doing a good job of doing a better job in
game two of limiting Michale. But you know, as I said,
the biggest adjustment that I saw was Danny Ainge goes
from playing two minutes in game one two playing twenty
five minutes in game two. These controls for Faustin Danny's

(32:56):
just gonna six frame. That's not the best of shots.
But the Colts he's a freaky shooter. When he's hot,
he's hot again. You're not taking nothing away from the
you know, late great former Finals MVP Dennis Johnson, but
he straight up he was rough in that game one
and actually shot twenty three times. So the adjustment and

(33:17):
game too, To be honest with you, you're going so
heavily to ange. I actually I do think that changed
that trying to change the tone of the game. Yeah,
you know, when you get a guy like Ange who
played Spotty in this series, he stayed ready. He stayed
ready for the moment. Anytime he called on him, he
came in. He did his thing, and he tried to play.
But the things about adjustments where you know, we know

(33:37):
Bird was gonna do his thing. But you got guys
like the Chief, and you've got Cedric Maxwell who went
for sixteen in this game at twelve rebounds, Because the
way to stop the Lakers fast break, the way to
control the Lakers and get your fast break on was
the rebound. Bird had thirteen, Chief had eleven, Maxwell had twelve.
And think about it, double digit rebounds from be people

(34:00):
that can control the game. It really can. Magic Johnson
is perfect part of spree throw line. He's now six
or six thirty five seconds showing on the clock. Celtics
have two time outs remaining, and the Lakers are up
by two. All right, so moving forward, after a para
Magic free throws, the Lakers have a two point lead.
With just just eighteen seconds left, the Lakers have the

(34:22):
lead by two points. So now one of the Celtics.
What can they do with the Lakers having the ball
with twenty seconds in? This is this is the moment
to be honest with you where I am looking forward
to talking to Worthy about it, because Worthy he's he's
trying to find Byron up on the wing. He floats
a pass. Worthy will lend bound the magic Johnson worst

(34:43):
comes to worst, the Celtics will have to follow. There's
a storm I heard up. It ends up getting picked
off by Gerald Henderson. I'll feel magic back off. Henderson
takes an in, you know, ties the game up with
thirteen seconds to go. For a minute there, I could

(35:04):
hear Johnny was going and still, what do you think
happened there? I don't want to say this was a
matter of James Worthy, you know, just simply trying not
to get foul. But it definitely had a little bit
of a hot potato look to it. I think sometimes
in situations like you're trying to keep the ball moving,
because so many guys nowadays they think, oh, I'm gonna

(35:25):
knock down the two free throws. It ain't about the
free throws. It's about the clock. It's about letting the
clock run so the other team has less time because
if you hold it and the guy comes and follows you,
the clock stops. But if you're moving it before the
guy follows you, the clock is your enemy. And so
if you can do that without getting filed successfully, you're better.

(35:47):
You have a better chance. And I think that's what
Worthy was trying to do, because most guys get the
ball in the hand to try not to get fouled,
not because they're scared to go to the free throw line,
is because they're trying to make the clock their friends.
It's like the coach of Mantra in their head the
entire time, and keep it moving, keep it moving, running
the clock. I get it. I get it. Now, what
about this play from the Celtics perspective, and you know what,
kudos you know to Gerald Henderson on it. Do you

(36:09):
feel like that that play actually is the play of
the series, because like, let's be honest, if he doesn't
make that play in the Lakers end up you'll wind
up winning this game to you know, to the point
that you made you know at the start, at the
start of this this is Curtins. So even though I
know you can't just say, like, oh, one play changes
a series or one play determined the series. It felt
like the play of the series for the Celtics. I

(36:31):
think it was one of the players of this series.
I think the play of the series was you know,
Casey Jones, you know, playing the McHale aims and women
because if you look down line, they had i think
with eight guys in W figures in this game and
it takes a total team after that means everybody was engaged.
Everybody came out and play hard because they know the
importance of this game. But that moment him playing good

(36:53):
defense and understand that you know, guys are gonna try
to move the basketball and stepping into the past lane
and getting that still was huge. And in the final play,
I'm gonna be honest with you, this is the one
that hurts this This is part of the reason why
the series was you know, got its unfortunate nick name.
But we're the inbounds the ball to Byron, who finds
Magic just inside half court down then that magic all

(37:15):
the ball Magic trying to work on Maxwell. Magic hast
a domin full second, Magic has Cedric Maxwell defended him
and he's looking to try to get the ball inside
the Kareem. He can't quite find the angle you know
that he wants, and he essentially winds up dribbling the
clock out before you know, before swinging into magadoo, you know,
as the buzzer sounds. What's that? God, He's gonna now

(37:39):
the subjects they win this game one and I don't know,
and we're gonna go to Los Angeles Spark game three
on Sunday. All rob I'll come to you, because of
course we're all humans, even though we expect superhuman things
at all times from our sports heroes. But was that

(38:01):
simply a matter of what can happen to the best
of us? You know, I think it's for me and
I'm watching Magic. It was his willingness to always try
to pass the ball. You can shoot the ball, so
shoot it. And for you not to get off a
shot with the times you know about to expire, it's
just a mental era is something you know, what you

(38:21):
gotta understand, Yo, It's better to throw up something than nothing.
And I think if you could go back in time,
Magic would have thrown up a shot because he has
the ability to hit off balance shots, so he could
have hit off balance shot to win the game, could
have so many other things and just dribble out the clock.
So I mean, essentially it's a mindset thing at that stage,

(38:43):
you know, where he's simply you're just looking to be
a distributor and not looking you know, each he So
would you say essentially he was still a reluctant scorer
at this stage. I do, I really do when you
watch the game, as so many times where he had
shots and they're back off and trying to double team
Kareem I let Cream or Worthy get the ball, because
there's a situation with Worthy. He's trying to get the

(39:04):
ball to Worthy at one point and Parish steals it.
So he has he had the ability to shoot, but
he was so reluctant to shoot it. And and it's
it's weird that we say, this is about one of
the greatest players ever plays that he had reluctancy to
shoot the ball in games. But that's who he was.
He was the past first type of guy. And I
wish he would, you know, try to shoot that j

(39:25):
but he didn't. As crazy as it sounds, it's almost
like history repeated itself because like a guy that you know,
played something somewhat similarly in his image got the same
type of you know, the same type of criticisms down
the line, I'm talking about Lebron. Why are you looking
at me like that? Like you didn't you didn't hear
the same type of criticisms about Lebron James. You know,
I thought you was talking about me, because you know,

(39:46):
I got traded to Detroit for not shooting the basketball,
So I thought you was talking about me. Rob. I'm
not here to throw shade at you. I'm not here
to throw it at you. Hey, boys, the boys could
throw shade at each Other's fine with it, man, I appreciate,
but you are talking about on the upper level. And
I think Lebron was that type of guy. But Lebron

(40:07):
was He's he was willing to shoot the ball. He
just he just you know, counting on his players to
shoot it. At the end when he everybody said, yo,
you need to take the last shot. But hey, every
okay play a pass the ball. Michael Jordan did, Bryant did,
and guys just have to knock down the shot. I'm
never gonna be mad at folks for making the quote
unquote right basketball player. I'm just not going exactly all right,

(40:27):
let's take another break here, on the NBA Finals file.
When we come back, the series heads west to l A.
And two of the best teams of all time are
going toe to toe l A. Right, that's not Topson
in Los Angeles, Like, let's nothing, let's stop all right

(40:49):
back here on the NBA Finals file, Let's keep it rolling.
Game three in Los Angeles. I'll be honest with you,
there's not a lot to go. Here's not a lot
to discuss here because it was a finals route just
nat Championship game history. The Lakers just poured it on
the Celtics for this one, with seven players reaching double figures,
while the Celtics couldn't really get much going beyond Larry's

(41:10):
thirty point night. The Celtics man out of an on
the speed of the Lakers, as well as a good
game from from Scott Wedman off the bench with sixteen
What men don't to play? I mean it's a threat
point Scott Wetman with a big threat point play. It
looks like he's on the march so far Magic this
is out assists Speaking of the magic Man back home

(41:34):
in the form his first trip of Dove of the series,
fourteen points one assists, eleven rebounds coming to life back
down in the layout, and we right through the Celtics
if they only took that out there like a hot
night through. But think about that twenty one assists. Man,
he was moving to basketball and that goes back to

(41:55):
last game where he's trying to get people involved, and
in Game three at home, he got a lot of
people involved, especially Mr McAdoo. Listen, I recognized throughout history
there have been great offenses. You know, there would be
people that point to the Sons, you know, those great
Sons teams with the seven seconds or less. There'll be
people that you know, speak to many of the Spurs

(42:16):
teams for many reasons. For my money, for my taste,
the showtime Lakers with magic pushing the ball in the
break is the greatest offensive experience that you can have,
especially when you've got guys feeling in length, especially Worthy
and and even Kurt Ramas, Chris Shop and it's all
working for them right now. Loble team on Kree rabbis

(42:45):
so well, find the open man going to the whole
pointies double team. You know, we we haven't talked about
Kurt Ramas. He has seventeen points in that game. The
guy who just goes into paint pounds and grounds and
does all these things, the little dirty things. So seventeen
points for him and Mike McGee fifteen points. You know
that those guys are using in the seven to ten

(43:06):
point range, but when they Abody gets seventeen points and
fifteen points, you know you gotta do it. I'm not
shocked at all that you are the one to bring
up the Young Sun heroes because and we alluded to
this in the first couple of episodes. You know that
I'm of the opinion, you know what you're getting from
the main guys, it's usually the others that end up
making the difference in the series. So those are absolutely

(43:26):
important points, all right, So the Lakers were oute them.
You know, there's really not much going you know, to
take from this, at least it doesn't seem like the
final score was one thirty seven to one oh four.
Are there any takeaways from a game like this in
the series or or doesn't just serve as an anomaly
where the winning coach says, okay, like let's go ahead
and just let's go ahead and just roll the ball

(43:47):
out again. But you use as a motivation factor, and
I guarantee. The casey when inness is these guys just
beat the brakes off to you. Do you have any pride?
And when you're a professional athlete and it is something
sound weird, you rather get beat by four or five
points than they get blown out because that's embarrassing. And

(44:07):
the next game you want to come out and show
people like, oh, that wasn't us, that was a flute.
You're gonna come out and you're gonna play harder, You're
gonna dive on the floor, football is, You're gonna do
so many different things to make sure that you show
people that you're better than getting beat by thirty plus points.
So that was a motivating factor for the self that's
going into game four. I've been a lot of embarrassing
situations before, but uh, this is definitely one of them.

(44:29):
You know, I just feel like they're you know, we
got some great players on this team, but we don't
have the players with the hearts sometimes that we need.
And until we get our hearts where they belong, we're
in trouble. On that note, let's go ahead and take
it the game forward because we're still in Los Angeles
and this is officially when the series gets testy after
a made This this series gets very testy, extremely testy.

(44:58):
It's Larry Burns on the jaw so after a made bucket.
Early on, bird Hip checks Cooper out of bounds where
Coop definitely sold it. You sold it on top of
the axe in itself. But no, let's be real. Birds
Hip checks him because out of nowhere kareem with McKay
guarding Pete's Cooper. The Celtics just have not been able

(45:18):
to pick up that cup. Larry Bird backed up Michael
Cooper into the photographer's lane as he got the inbounds
pass hard going up hard again. Michael Cooper was behind
Larry Bird with Bird under the Celtic basket, was imbounding

(45:39):
it and Larry just backed him away. Are's gone for
the bail out of bounds and Cooper trying to get
around them, so it just backs him into the crowd
to create some room at a little bit too close
to the camera people. I hope they got to close up.
Even I look at that, it reminds me of that
song doing the butt because he picks his butt on

(46:00):
him and pushes him out of bounce. Larry got a
bagel for the five people that will know that reference.
I hope that I hope that they appreciate it. But
the series was really on after Kareem outlets it to Worthy,
who found Rambis streaking up the lane for what would
have been a dunk if not for the fact that
Kevin mckill just basically obliterates him with a clothesline. There's

(46:22):
Kareem outlet to Worthy, Rabbis, now let's watch it Cooker
and the Celtics, and now the benches empty as Larry
Byrd helps Purnt Rabbis, he was that to Celtics, I'd
hit the four hard time out l a by six,

(46:42):
and things have really heated up here at the farm.
You know. It gets everybody up, gets everybody involved, It
winds up spilling into the fans behind the basket. Rob.
This is the point where I'm gonna be honest with you.
As I was watching the footage, I was like, I
wish I was sitting next to Rob right now, because
you strike me as an old school guy. Was that
just good hard basketball or was that even by eighties standards?
That was cheap by eighties standards. And you watched the broadcast,

(47:07):
Tommy Hyson tried to say, oh, he was trying to
hold him up. That is bs on that one man.
He was not trying to hold him, but he was
trying to take him out. And if you look at
this series, it got a little tested from this point on,
where guys know what's the stake. They know they do
they gotta win this game. They don't want to go
down three one, so they're coming at you hard and heavy,
and for them to take Ramus out, for them to

(47:29):
put Cooper in the stands. You know, the Celtics and
bird weren't gonna try to win lose this game. They
were trying to do everything possible that they could to
win this game. And completely understandable. Again, even at this point.
The Lakers at a six point lead at the time
of the takedown, but they still actually had control of
the game. They had a five point leading the final
minute of this game. So coming down to the end,

(47:50):
Paris grabs the Boston's third rebound of the possession and
finishes with it in traffic while getting an an one
with just under thirty seconds. What's a fake a shot?
The rebound Parish and the file against the Lakers. That
will be number six for ad So Kareem files out
the very next time down. He finishes with thirty two points.

(48:13):
It's sixteen seconds left. Bird knocks down the free throw
to tie the game up, and of course these are
big free throws coming up for Larry Bird. You know,
great players like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson love to
be in this situation. It makes one. Kareem filed out.
He scored thirty two points and how eight rebounds. It's

(48:35):
thirty two match this point total in game number one.
Big free throw coming up and the Celtics tie it up.
The Lakers will call their last time out and try,
they hope to set up the winning basket with sixteen
seconds to go with Kareem. Mount Boston then loads the

(48:55):
defense up on the side the Magic is trying to
operate from. And this is that, this is that, that's
a nary that you were alluding to. Really grampus the
Magic to be sure they won't let the time run
out this time as they did in Game two. Magics
trying to hit Worthy, you know, from the post, and
he's got Parish literally just hanging all over him. Eight
seconds Parrish snales at all in the Celtics bolling time

(49:20):
out with three seconds to play, and Magick Johnson didn't
have anywhere to go in there at another mixed steal
my Paris, who saved the game for Boston and over
time in last Thursday's second game. Yes, you know, this
is the situation where I I think back to every
coach I ever had, and they're saying, fake a pass
to make a pass. Magic doesn't fake it. He just

(49:43):
tries to throw an over the top pass too worthy
to a guy who's taller than Worthy in Paris. He
steals it in Oh no, here's another turnover heard, fires
it up. This is one sec in the can shop.
Over time. Okay, So Bird almost makes a running one

(50:03):
footer and McKell actually rebounds it and and misses a
point blake shot that would have that would have won
the game for the Celtics in regulation. Came close, mcal
came close. But they go to overtime, the second overtime
of this World Championship series. But then it goes over time.
It goes over time. But you go back and when

(50:24):
you look at shots like Bird and mckill having you know,
pot shots pretty much, and for the missing that's almost like, Okay,
we're gonna win this thing in overtime. Okay, they did
the run, they came back. We only scored forty five
points in the second half, and that's not like the
Lakers have been doing. Oh series, do you think about it.
They just scored sixty eight points in the first half,

(50:47):
and then they start missing a lot of shots in
the second half, and they didn't having many buckets. But yo,
you know, they say, we can go to overtime. We
got momentum, we should win this thing. But the unfortunate
thing is Kareem's not there. So the Celtics actually pull
away in over time as it it's clear that they
that the Lakers missed Kareem and and really don't have
a second option. So I'm gonna come to you with this,

(51:08):
and this is difficult because I don't in any way
want to, you know, make this about Riley. But one
of the things that I did notice is when Kareem
wasn't an option, it did, and the fast break wasn't
there it did. It just simply didn't seem like they
had a lot of options. Yeah, to me, they should
have said ran the same places they ran for Cream
for Worthy, getting him off the move, but they didn't

(51:29):
do that. They could have did it. They had some
great plays where they ran mcado baseline and some jumpers.
It was almost like, we don't have a cap what
should we do? And that's the That's a good thing
about a lot of coaches. They learned from their mistakes.
They learned that, Okay, I gotta figure out if I
can't get cream, what is my second what is my
third option? You know, pat Rileys the heck of a coach,
and he figured out for the next game, he certainly did.

(51:52):
And this one, like like I said, the Celtics wanted
they wrap it up and overtime clearly a steal by Worthy.
That is Johnson Cooper all over him. You can't do
a thing. Bird turn aloun hits with sixteen silkings to go,
I'm the Lakers, Paul there last bar, they have one
more are a time out and over time Worthy the

(52:18):
Boston Celtic even this NBA World Championship Series two games,
as crazy as it sounds, Birds and just nine for
twenty four in the night, but he still puts up
at twenty nine and twenty one game. You know, watching
this series and you watch Bird, you know, for him
to be a great school, and everybody knows he's a

(52:38):
great school. He gets quiet buckets all the time. What
I mean by that is he gets a tip in
here because he wasn't a dunker. He gets an office
of rebuyd here, he gets then and one here, and
he comes off a pick. You know, we think of bird.
When we think of bird, you think of three pointers, right,
But this guy got buckets into paint. This guy was
a guy who can give buckets anywhere. Bird inside goes out,

(52:59):
that's the basket. But the shocking one was he got
twenty one rebounds. Your eyes are opened up for that game. Man.
So that is Larry Legend at his best, absolutely at
his best, and one of the many reasons why even
though he was a you know, a hated Celtic, he's
one of my favorite players ever played this game. Absolutely
one of my favorites. But you know, also talking about

(53:21):
DJ a couple of games back, getting SUPs to you
by Dan as he has a bounce bounced back game
chipped up an End. I think it was Dennis Johnson.
It is Dennis Johnson who was playing a marvelous game
twenty two points, fourteen assists, and then you got my
favorite guy because his name is Robert Parish. You know,
he had twenty and twelve rebounds. So these guys went

(53:43):
to work. And that's the thing about great players, when
it backs against the wall, they step up in the
most adverse situations. To your point on DJ, I actually
made the note. It's a it's an adjustment that Casey
made again he went back heavy to DJ. You know
the previous game he kind of you, he kind you know,
split time with with Danny Ainge. But DJ actually played

(54:03):
fifty minutes in this game and you you know, and
dished out fourteen assists. So can you speak to the
motivation of of a player when you sit like you know,
for instance, it's not in any way that he's beating
you know, that he's a bad teammate, or that he
doesn't want Danny Ainge to succeed. But as a veteran
and again as a guy, you know, former Finals MVP
in his own right, can you speak to what that
type of motivation is where when when you know, you

(54:25):
basically get sat down. You know a lot of times
you have to do what's best. Let's look at yourself
in the mirrors, is what do I need to do?
To be better. Do I need to be more aggressive?
Do I need to be an attack rode? And if
you've watched DJ in his game, he came out, he
was an attack mode. And sometimes when you sit back,
that takes you out of your rhythm, and he's a
rhythm type player. So he came out, he was shooting

(54:48):
his jumper. He was just playing basketball. And I know
that sounds weird that the game is called basketball, but
sometimes you just let the game come to you. Float,
you come off the drip, but you take shots. And
when you're doing that and not looking for other people,
you can get your game going. And once you get
your game going, it makes it easier for the other players,
like I always talked about, and DJ was that guy

(55:08):
got his points and the guy to assist. And last
note that I that you know that I that I
saw here Big game at thirty in this one, including
ten in overtime and once again fourteen for seventeen on
the night. Just absolutely ridiculous, as crazy as crazy as
it is is. If if this series goes a different direction,
Big Game might actually you know, be a two time
finals m v P. So true because he had that

(55:28):
Worthy's been in the block and he was going to
work on Larry Bird. Oh he was all right. We'll
stop here for this episode as the series is too
too and things are seriously heating up. Be sure to
catch our breakdown of Games five through seven as well
as Finals File awards on the next episode and then
the second part of the series will have a special
guest joined in the show, Big Game. James Worthy will

(55:49):
be coming on to join us and give us first
hand perspective on this incredible series.