1984 - Lakers vs Celtics (Part 2)

Hosted by 7-time champion Robert Horry and Jabari Davis, NBA Finals File dives deep into the greatest Finals series in NBA history, breaking down the best moments, storylines and matchups, using rare archival audio from the NBA, and the personal touch that only "Big Shot Bob" can give. 

In this episode of NBA Finals File, we examine the 1984 Finals, Lakers vs Celtics. A seven-game battle that changed the NBA forever, featuring a ton of Hall-of-Famers and the most intense rivalry in the NBA. Magic Johnson and the Lakers facing Larry Bird and Celtics, the matchup the world had been waiting for since they met in college 5 years earlier. Jabari and Rob discuss the Lakers "Showtime" offense, dealing with the physicality of the Celtics, the crazy heat in the Boston Garden, and in part two, "Big Game" James Worthy will join the show to talk about the series he still has nightmares about to this day.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to the NBA Finals filed with Robert Roy
and Jibari Davis. Were just past the midway point of
this epic seven game series that's tied at two to
two as we head in the game five the Boston
Celtics a world championship series, and of course we're joined
by Hall of Famer three time champion Finals m v
P in his own right with the Los Angeles Lakers

(00:24):
and a man that knows firsthand what this series was like,
Big Game, James Worthy, Thanks so much for joining as
a pleasure. How's everyone living life? That's you on the show? Absolutely,
and well we'll just go ahead and keep it rolling.
We know the fireworks throughout Game four where it felt
like the Celtics and no no disrespect, James, it felt
like the Celtics got the better of the physical aspect

(00:45):
of the game as they took it to the Lakers
and in their own building and Big Game. Since we have,
we may as well last you directly. What was the
tone in that locker room after after that game and
heading into Game five? Well, I mean, yeah, the Celtics,
you know, were historically a great team and they had
a certain style of play and you know, the Lakers
had a showtime something that was un familiar to the league.

(01:09):
It wasn't your traditional set it up past move. It
was a different six nine point guard sky hook and
a lot of fast breaks. And so the physicality came
about when Boston couldn't stop us. You know, that was
an old Red Art back trick that they used to
get physical and we weren't used to that. And instead

(01:29):
of us, you know, stand with our own you know concept,
we tried to play their style and that's what got
us into trouble because we weren't that type of physical team.
I believe pat Riley doesn't want to play a physical
ball game. The only physical game he wants to play
is to outrun the Boston Celtics, take advantage of a
great speed that they have. He intends to try and

(01:51):
run the Celtics right out of the Boston Garden. He's
gonna do a lot of substituting. Jamal Wilkes, Mike McGee,
gonna play a lot of time tonight. Now, as far
as the Boston Celtics, Sir and everyone said that this
is a brand of basketball they have to play, do
you think will continue with tonight? I think that it's
long been coming to a tract, that power game of
the Celtics, the muscle. So I don't think they're intending

(02:11):
to give it up tonight just because of my cup
of our headline. At least we weren't that year. Uh.
We came back uh in five, knowing that we had
to have a little bit of that. But it was
really really a difficult competition and difficult game. I mean,
you know, losing that game, uh, and then you know,
coming back into the you know, humidity of Boston Garden

(02:34):
and the fans there, they were extremely nasty and at
the other poor number forty two changes are worthy and
you know, we stayed in the hotel where they just
never let up firearms, you know, all throughout the night

(02:55):
and phone calls, you know, even though even though you
tell the operator to turn your phone off. They just
everyone was in on it. And Boston they were just
some horrible fans. So you had to, you know, you
had to deal with a lot of stuff going into
that seay good eating everybody, and welcome. I am Bred Musburger.
It has been my experience through the years that game
five of any six or seven game championship series is

(03:18):
the most emotional and the most pivotal. The team that
wins here tonight knows that it needs only one of
the next two five basketball if you will to win
a championship. Thank you very much. Brand. A lot of
people think that the turning point in Game four, in
which the Celtics even the series, came with five minutes
to go in the third period. The Lakers were leading
by six points and Kurt Rambas was going in for
what looked like an easy layup and watch him and

(03:40):
number thirty two, Kevin McHale of the Celtics. It was
McHale who took Rambas down and that's where it all started.
That was the beginning of it all as far as
the Lakers were concerned. And now here is Kevin McHale's
side of the story. And then pat Riley the Lakers
was an unfortunate incident. Was just a case of two
people running in opposite directions and I reached out to
grab them like this, and he was running about gun

(04:01):
fast that and my arm just kept going. I couldnking
mother handing around him to grab him. You know, I
did try to grab him. I stated this before. If
there's anybody that team. I wouldn't want to hurt it's curtain,
and you see it. I saw it in in my
mind that was as flagrant and followed as I've ever seen.
But in the in the hurricane, you always try to
find the eye of this storm, and we're gonna try
to find a very calm place tonight. All right, So
let's talk about you. You're going back into game You

(04:22):
going to back into Boston the heat game. You just
alluded to some of the extras that you had to do,
that you had to deal with Game five. The building
is reportedly nine degrees at the tip. Somehow there's no
air conditioning. Before we even go there. Have you ever
played in another setting like that in your professional career?
Not inside? I mean I played outside growing up in

(04:44):
the South. I mean we played all day outside what
we call the dust boards. But this particular I'm not
even gonna call it arena. You know, they had no
heat in the winter and no air in the summer,
and June was like one of the oddest months with
the humidity. They had air conditioned in their room, and
I remember Gary V ordering these fans, uh, these big fans,

(05:10):
to kind of keep our locker room you know, cool
down as much as possible. Ordered a couple of air
conditioning things to try to cool off the locker room,
portable ones plug them in, blew the circuits in Boston
Garden and the locker rooms weren't like the modern day
locker rooms. They were like really like small with stalls.

(05:32):
Everybody was really close to one another. I mean there's
photos of us dying from heat before the game. You know,
we're sitting in there before the game and it was
just it was just hard. You had to drink a
lot of fluids. So they set for game number five.
The Celtics are in white, the Lakers there the dark day,
the farm and the temperature. As friends said, we'll get

(05:54):
over a hundred. It's closed to nine right now. They
had the advantage. One. We didn't hadn't learned how to
play physical. It wasn't there. You know, we were afraid.
But when we got physical, it was very obvious and
very out of character. And so going into that garden,
man with those two deficiencies, the heat, the crowd, and

(06:19):
then you know, they were good the Boston So they
were good team, you know with Parish and Bird Michale,
you know, and they were physical and we had to
adapt to that. It didn't feel like you were breathing air.
It's like you're breathing something. But it wasn't how many
any of any effect in your loan. And and speaking
of those conditions, you know, once again, at at one

(06:39):
point in the second half, during the time out, you
had Kareem with an oxygen mask on, you know, like
on the Laker's bench. So Boston Celtics, who are playing
in the same humidity, look as pressed has anything, and
the Lakers looked like aeric sauska, you know, playing at
Thennis Johnson made magic. Johnson had a chance to really

(07:01):
wrap him up and not let him get a layup.
And ty Rolet Truder was word his team doesn't do that.
But Karene meets the bottle going for him right now
over the face. Lots of whips. This is no fun
for a big guy playing in this heat. You had
Larry literally being fanned by five guys, and you know what,
I wasn't mad at the tactic. It was all hands

(07:23):
on deck, but it was teammates and staffers behind the bitch.
You guys were absolutely going through it. After that, you know,
we asked Larry about it, and they said, Hell's hider
back home playing a French slack, but you know, keeping
it with the action. Bird was particularly good that night.
The Lakers had several chances and here's Horry Bird chuck
him down in the part, and he had Coope matched

(07:46):
up against him as the primary defender. And I always
kind of wondered, and can you speak to this. It
felt like Bird used this size and really took advantage
in the post, in the midpost, anytime the Lakers were
anytime you guys were slow to double or Lee shade
over with some help. But what about Cooper and Bird? Well,
Cooper and they've been trying to take him in the
low post most of the series. That's what's been crossing

(08:08):
most of the problem. As soon as they move on
to the outside, Cooper comes out with him and the
Celtics have lost the ball. It'll be Lakers ball gone
and the inside game opens up a little bit. And
they haven't really done it yet the Celtics. He's bigger
than Cooper, not quicker, and Cooper has really played the
passing lane well against Larry Bird. It is still Laker ball.
Given mind that the Larry Bird has been the Lakers

(08:30):
Celtics leading scorer. He has not shot well at all
in this series? Was that just the tactic? And and
don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from
Coop who was obviously an incredible defender, but he simply
was out, you know, outsized in this one. Yeah, Cooper
was our best defender against Bird. You know, I would
play Larry Bird in the first you know, half a
little bit the third quarter, but when we really needed

(08:52):
some real defense, our best defense Coop, regardless of the size,
Larry Bird us this muscle against Cooper inside. As they
pointed out, and Larry Bird has quoted, it's saying that
Coop wore him down. I mean all hundred and sixty
pounds of him. Uh. Coop was a nasty dude man,

(09:14):
and you know you had to make Bird work hard.
And that's what That's what Bird respected about Cooper is
that he wasn't afraid of him. And yes, we knew
he was going to post him up. The double team
was coming. We just wanted to get out of his hands.
But there may have been a size mismatch, but not
a disadvantage my opinion. Big game throughout this series, you know,

(09:37):
you always know, their best six man was Kevin mckial
and if you go through this series, he really only
had one good game in the first five and that
was Game one. We had twenty five points, and I
feel like with him, if he scored over fifteen points,
that's when he was gonna help Celtic get dubbed. And
in this game, Game five, he had nineteen and ten.

(09:59):
So what were y'all outlook on how to guard mcale
because he's he was he's considered to me one of
the pump fake kings that he can get to that
line for a one. Yeah, Rob, you know, obviously you
know Lardberg got a lot of praise, but I don't
think they've win the championships. They won without one Kevin
McHale and then Dennis Johnson. But Kevin was unstoppable. McNeil.

(10:22):
It starts the second period and is playing with three
personal fouls, gets the first point and the Celtics lead
twenty eight twenty six. He was the center right now.
He hits over dater from her own from macale. He
had size, length and a soft touch and footwork and um,

(10:45):
you know, he was a great offensive refounder. So we
really struggled with him. Uh. You know, sometimes we put
curd on it, a C Green, a C Green out
there and try to run him up and down the court.
He had to guard me a lot, so you know,
we trying to do everything we can to make him work.
But you know, when he got going, uh, he was.

(11:06):
He was critical and so you know, not being able
to eliminate his points, especially as offensive rebounds. He was
a madman of the offense. He just beat you in
the back of the neck. You know, they just let
you play back. There only only two referees. Man, you
got away with a lot of stuff. This is a
rough and tumble game, they don't mistake about it. And

(11:27):
it's happening all over the Florida top. Both teams are
going at each other whenever you're getting near the basking.
That really stunned. The flash elbows hit with bodies and
so Riley said, they're gonna try and run away from him.
It looks like that going out for the ten rounds
or the fifteen round championship. But you know it was
nothing that you got the way with, you know, illegal play.

(11:50):
It was just a little bit more physical and Kevin
was you know, rob he was unstoppable. When I think
of Power Forwards, I think of him as being you know,
you know people talk about karm Alone and Tim Duncan.
I would love to see, you know, Kevin Kelly to
play against karm Alone a little bit. But in his hey,
they man he was. He was tough. You know, since

(12:12):
we're on that Power Forward talk, and I didn't realize this.
I know from getting to know you and being in
the studio with you, I hear how much you talk
about Bob McAdoo. McAdoo hits the shot outside. Mob McAdoo,
who's the Lakers mime scar off the bench and a
shot very well in the series since a nice Bowl
Game number one, and I felt with the way he

(12:34):
played in each and every game until he got the
game seven where he could not play. Y'all, he was
vital to your offense, bird defending. McAdoo puts a great
bake on Larry Murden goes in and I could do
showing some moves inside. You know about his shooting ability
outside and in this game five he had eighteen. So
can you talk about how great McAdoo was since we

(12:56):
owned the story of Power Forwards, because McAdoo was coming
off the beach and getting buckets for you guys. Yeah,
Bob mcadode was the first junior college player to coach
Smith at my album out of North Carolina. He took
he never really took junior college players, but Bob mcadode
was the first man. And uh, he was a prolific

(13:18):
score and you know, I think he should have won
m VP in Night two when the Lakers big Philip
Death that he came off the bench and just scorched.
He could shoot, man, he could shoot, He could put
it on the floor a little bit and healthy. Bob
mcadood really in nineteen eighty five gave us a big left.

(13:38):
But in eighty four he wasn't available. But Bob mcadoode
was an amazing power for me on the miss By Parish,
I could and if you're looking for another offensive threat,
Bob I could do a quickly. Yet when you got
that outside shotgun like he does tonight, you've got a weapon.

(14:01):
And nobody ever be able to turn him off because
once he gets going, he stopped and he talked trash
to he'll he'll talk trash right in your face and
tell you like I was the first big band to
put it on the floor. He used to tell Magic
this all the time. He wasn't the first big man
to put it on the floor because when Bob Back
and Do play with Buffalo, he used to bring it

(14:21):
up and pop and you know, he wasn't shooting a
lot of threes, but top of the key deadly jump
shot was just amazing that he could pump fake and
put it on the floor. So you know, when people
say who would you pick, there's a power forward. You
had your you know, pick up team. You know people
think carm alone, Tim Duncan. You know they think some
of it. But when I want to flat out score

(14:43):
in the gym, Bob Back and Do, man, he's gonna
be hard to beat. And don't never play him in
a horse game. Don't ever play him in the horse game.
You will not win. I think he's backing the thousand
because he shoots just a little bank shot from the
center of the ram, so like four ft. It's just
killed the Lakers trying to climb back. The Lakers have

(15:07):
out played the Boston Celtics for three games pro games.
Really as Karine gets inside and gets a basket in
the file and this is the first game in the
series that the Celtics have out play the Lakers and
if they hold on and win the game, they're leading
three to two. We have a long way to go.
So Boston controls the action for a lot of the night,
but Kareem gets an end when it does cut a

(15:28):
double digit lead down the eight three seventy five with
a minute twenty four left and the third quarter, trem
has the three point play eighty three to seventy five,
one twenty four remaining. You guys did a good job
of defending Bird on the other end, but then Aane
steps into a three and pushes it back to a
double digit lead. Great point of tap by day Larry

(15:51):
Bird has two of them. I'm a dainty Age has one.
Great point plays and with under a minute to go
off the Celtics lead again by eleven. The Celtics wind
up closing the quarter on a baseline jumper from Bird
where he pump fakes Rampas and you into the stands
essentially before knocking it down. Heye fines it open, Bird
takes Rampis second. In that moment, the you know Bird

(16:14):
scores eleven in the quarter. You know the Celtics are
up eleven Boston Garden is going absolutely nuts heading into
the time out. What are you guys thinking, what are
you feeling in that moment? Well, as an athlete, you
gotta respond. I mean, you know, um, you have to
try to do whatever you can to change the moment,
even though things were starting to look a little bit
bleak for us. That's all you can do at that moment.

(16:36):
You look up at the clock and you see how
much time there's left, and you think every scenario possible
they can get you tied up or forced over time.
But at the same time, subconsciously, and this happens to
just about every athlete, subconsciously, you're saying damn, and your
shoulders shrug and you you kind of just take a big,

(16:58):
big side because you know you're playing so hard and
things just don't go your way. It's like it's like
when big shot Rob hit that shot against Sacramento. Sacramento
played so great, great defense, blah blah blah, and then
boom the dagger. So there's some parts of that. There's
an athlete that you can't avoid feeling. But as long

(17:21):
as you look up at the clock and you say, okay,
what do we have to do we need to get
a big stop or a big shot. But you do
feel that pressure, you know you it's just it's just
common that you feel it and you gotta play through it.
And the crowd begins to give the Celtics a standing
ovation as they run down the last second of the game.

(17:45):
And it was the Boston Celtics defense which held the
Los Angeles Lingers to percent shooting, the lowist of the playoffs,
and the Boston Celtics have in resounding fashion when the
big second half half troumps to Los Angeles Lakers one
three to take the three to two lead in the

(18:07):
World Championship Series. And we'll be back to Boston Garden.
And you have to give both teams tremendous credit for
playing at four the admitted team death. It seems as
though they held up a little better than we did.
The man who made the difference tonight was Mr Burne.
I have to ask this question you just alluded to,
you know, Bob mcadood being great at trash talk. You're
in this series, you're playing against Bird. Can you talk

(18:27):
about the trash talk that he gave you? You know,
he never really I think Burt knew who to talk trash.
I mean he talked a little trash. It didn't get personal.
It would always be surrounded if by something that happened,
like with the team, like Evan was a hard file.
I think he knew better than to talk trash directly

(18:49):
at me because I was given number okay, okay, and
he didn't have to guard me, so he knew not
to get me, you know, wired up, because I think,
you know, sometimes guys stop trash to you. There's two
things you can do. You can get a little bit
intimidated and not really are you can said, oh is
he talking trash? It's over. So he never really came

(19:11):
directly at me, but there were some times where, you know,
I heard stories where he tell people what he was
gonna do, Like I've had that before. He's like, yeah,
Paris gonna set a pick and h you're gonna try
to fight over the top, and I'm gonna pop to
the corner and and and pop up three right in
his face. Down. He's done that. He's done that. You know,

(19:33):
he's that's common going into the All Star weekend, going
into the uh you know, to locker room right before
the three point contest and going in and telling all
the three points contestants, which one of y'all are coming
in second? You know he used to He used to
do that kind of stuff all the time, but he
never came, you know, directly at me. He do better

(19:55):
than the poke the bear. Speaking of poking the bear,
let's go to Game six in Los Angeles. You guys
are in a must win situation. Celtics just one victory
away from winning the championship. For the Lakers, not only
must they win here this afternoon, but they'd have to
win a seventh game in Boston Backs against a proverbial wall.
You're down three two. Kareem is is suffering from a migraine,

(20:16):
at least reportedly hidden into that game, and actually misses
some of the pregame planning as a result. The first
thing is, we just found out just maybe ten seconds
ago the Kareem does not have the migraine now, but
earlier he did, and words spread like wildfire through the
forum among the fans that Kareem was sick. At that time,
Kareem was on the trainers table. He had an I
V and I have been throwing up all morning. He
had a severe migraine headache, and they had two doctors

(20:38):
including the Rams team doctor and the Lakers doctor working
on him. Now he is fine. We are told pat
Riley seems calm and he's gonna start him. But it
doesn't actually seem like it. It impacts you, guys, because
everybody looked rejuvenated. The offense was back in gear. You know,
get you got back to pushing tempo. You you know,
the Lakers got ninety four points from Kareem, Coop Magic
and yourself alone. But there's one point that I actually

(21:01):
do want to ask you about you. We're gonna speaking
about poking a beer because things got a little bit
testy surrounding you and Cedric Maxwell. This is a pressent game,
particularly for the Lakers who are tailing for the two,
and Maxwell causes the steel and here's Henderson two on
one Boston. Maxwell is pushed and knocked away. If I
were to you, and Maxwell doesn't like it. And how

(21:31):
the Lakers are giving the Celtics that don't say their
own medicine, Well, I don't think it's the same caliber
admit as the one that the Michael gave to uh Rambis.
That was a direct question behind into the supports. That's
really a no. No, Well this wasn't exactly a feather push. No,
that's what I'm saying. And they they playing the clothesline Rambis.

(21:52):
But watch this row directly from behind A push in
the back. That is really the worst positible foul that
you can get. I really truly believe McCall was trying
to home ramp us up and I watched this from behind. Uh,
that's when you can really get hurt when you're going
accelerate the man's speed into the support. Well, the Lakers

(22:14):
have no choice in many ways today. They have to
come out and play physical because that's how the Boston Celtics.
I've turned this series around, and it started with their
victory and Game four, And I'm gonna ask you this,
the play where you pushed him essentially into the stands.
Was that a bit of Gastonia versus Kingston coming out?

(22:35):
That was some of that North Cacilatic going out of it, man,
some of that old country you know, I grew up
a huge fan of Serject Max was and we're good
friends today. I just did his podcast maybe about four
or five months ago. He played at You and C. C. Charlotte,
which was about twenty minutes from Gastonian from my hometown.
So I used to go see him play when I

(22:56):
was in like junior high in high school. But it
had gotten so asty in that entire series, if you
can recall, Uh, not only were the physical, but they
would stick their head in our locker room and say,
you know the fakers, the Los Angeles bakers, and uh,
they would give us choke signs. You know, during the

(23:18):
game we had given away a couple of games, we
had mis free throws, the choke label started to come out.
I think they were in our heads at that time,
and and they sort of had our number. As we
really got into a retalent or a type of mentality,
you know, you missed a free through, they would literally
put sc particularly would literally put his his hands over

(23:40):
his neck like choke signs and mL car with that
damn pile. But they were just big miles man, and
I just got tired of it. You know. They had
ripped my man Kurt Ramis, you know, out of the air.
Uh and and didn't even get a technical file. There
was just two shots. So I was young. It was
my first time in the NBA finals and having gone

(24:04):
through all that you know, Turmoil playing him talking all
that trash. When I saw him on that breakaway and
he's he was you know, something just came over me,
like no freebees. I had heard that concept, like no
free layoups. So when I saw the opportunity, I tried

(24:25):
to push him into the pad. You know that that
was that was my intention. But at the point, at
that point, I didn't care way last enough. I was
just angry. I was mad. You know, we had lost
game too, and because of Eric passed that I made,
we could have gone up too. Oh even though we

(24:46):
had one game one, we had accomplished what we came
in there to do, but we could have. We could have,
you know, had games two. I think that was the championship.
It got away from me, you know, and when they
say Robb got seven, they should be saying I got
four at least, you know what I'm saying. You know,
I wasn't going to bring it there big game. But

(25:07):
you know, to your point on that play, I did
wonder if if you if you guys in the locker
room felt like not that you know, the series changed
on your one errant pass, but with Gerald Henderson picks
that ball off, and and puts it up and then
you obviously end up losing that game. Does it feel
like you left one on the on the table, So
that does make sense. Yeah. I still wake up and
sweat some night thinking about that about two or three

(25:29):
times a year. Man, I wake up, Oh yeah, yeah,
you always remember those man that was That was a
tough one. I was young. I tried to get the
ball out of my hands. Worth They will live bound
the Magic Johnson. The worst comes to worst, the Celtics.
I'll have to file this stuff. Knowing you're not supposed
to make a cross court pass. And you know, I

(25:52):
saw Barring Scott over there, but and then the ball
was in the air and I could just see it
Gerald Henderson coming and when he got it, I went
to block the shot, and I could feel the basketball
just barely braise my my finger tips. You know, I
got like I didn't get a piece of it, but

(26:13):
I could barely feel like the ball just passed my
finger tips. But almost got a block on on on
his layer. But anyway, that's history. In game six, you know,
it was a battle. You guys went back and forth,
but really, you know what I noticed in the second half,
you know, would really, you know, would put some distance
between you guys and the Celtics at the end. Was

(26:34):
in my estimation was your defensive intensity? Dennis Johnson The
medal is also how Maxwell feels it. One second on
the shot clock and Dennis Johnson g said off the
side of the blackboard, justice, the second clock expires good
defense by the Lakers. Can you speak to the defense

(26:54):
that you guys know that you guys prided yourselves on. Well,
one of Pat Rally's coach Rally's famous quotes is no defense,
no rebound, no ring. You know. So uh we you know,
a showtime was what it was. It was fast break,
it was high octane. But you know, we we had
we had a defensive presidents as well. This type of

(27:16):
defense that the Lakers are playing a little scrambled like
get in the passing ways and the stook picking up
to get back to their own man, what's the speed
to get that fast break gone? And so we knew
that we had to slow down Macale, we had to
slow down Bird. We had to and we also had
to run ourselves cook for going around Davis Johnson's so
worthy two thirty nine in the third period and the

(27:42):
Lakers are making a lie. But our practices back in
the day were mostly defensive oriented. Pat rally, you know,
pay for Adolf bro. You know that, Kentucky. There's hard,
no and very precise about defense. A little little different
defense we were ables played back then. We didn't switch

(28:04):
as much, We fought through, we trapped. We even did
more like half court four court presses to uptake the tempo.
So we knew that in order to win and push
the game seven, it had to be on the defensive. Then,
you know you're talking about defense. In that second half,
you only held those guys to to forty three points

(28:24):
and you guys went out for sixty. But Likens with
a small line off our starting to assert themselves on
the offensive board, and the Celtics time have only scores
two field goals in the last twelve minutes. When you
go into the locker room at halftime, and I know me,
I try not to think about the score. I just said,
you know what, I'm not gonna worry about the score.

(28:46):
I'm gonna go ahead and just play as hard as
I possibly can. What mindset do you guys or did
you guys have going into halftime in Game six? Being
down and knowing that you had to come out in
that second half and give it you Uh, we knew
the third quarter was was was critical. We knew that

(29:06):
we could beat there if we played the way we
knew how to play, and so we were always down,
sometimes maybe a game or maybe by a few points,
but we would never out just the way we our
mindset was. You know, we knew that playing against Boston,
paying against Utah, you know, uh, pening against Portman, pening

(29:27):
against Dallas Mavericks, you know some of the there was
some good teams back then. We knew that we were
gonna be down sometimes but never out once you get clicking,
and especially if we get our fast break on it,
force and turnovers we do that was key. And being
you know, at home, you just can't lose at home.
All those things come into play and with us it

(29:50):
you know, there was no you know, there was a
sense of urgency where there was no pressure. It was
just like we just gotta go out here and jump
on them. And we knew we were better athletes. We
knew were faster, and you know, we knew we swung
them like bees and played our game and didn't give up.

(30:10):
Particularly offensive rebounds. That was the thing back in the
day with Boston that just killed you. You know, twenty
four seconds a good defense. Here comes Keth McHale or
Robert Parish, and we knew if we did that, you know,
we could we can wear them down and uh make
some stops and get back in the game. So when
this one a Kareem skyhook at the along the baseline
basically put it out of reached under five minutes left,

(30:32):
we may be in for one of the memorable one.
There's Kareem seven part lead for the Lakers and they're
pulling away with nearly four and a half ago. I
will Boston fight back, But when just about three minutes
to go, it's the Lakers again, and then Lakers know

(30:57):
they're gonna go back to Boston. I think that was
the trench. Are like that, Dick, Your Lakers never looked back.
You end up taking the game one nineteen o eight,
big victory for the Lakers. The Celtics are not surprised.

(31:17):
Had Riley's team is even and it's gonna be Casey
and Riley Parris and Kareeb Magic and Larry Bird in
the deciding game Tuesday night at Abdul Jabbar scored thirty
points to lead All Stars. Larry Bird Haight a dramatic
victory by the Lakers as we had to game seven.

(31:39):
Even though we got Game six, I didn't feel good
about where we were. And as a coach, even though
you're going in the game seven with great players, you
just didn't have that kind of feeling. Coming up next
Lakers versus Celtics, Game seven, Boston Garden. It doesn't get
any better than that. And you know, once again we
got big game in it in the house. So let's
go ahead and get his opinion on Oh, oh you

(32:07):
dinner some of them lemons? Man, you've got a lemon?
Try yeah? Back here, Game seven, Lakers versus Celtics in
the Guarden. Everything is back there to be had. History
the Boston Garden retired numbers World Championship banners. We have

(32:29):
a chance to do something that northern team has ever done.
Go back to Boston Garden, win the World championship on
that parquet floor. It ends up being Birds revenge game stop.
I was sweeping in Ford, but it's one a little
bit longer. Now we're just have to do seven now, Bird,
it famously squared off against Magic in the college championship game,

(32:49):
you know, just five years earlier, and obviously it come
up short. Larry Byrd and Magic Johnson when they met
for the s c A Championship several years ago, and
with Magic Johnson's state team that hel and Larry Bird
is close to gaining revenge and that personal battle with
Magic Johnson. The great Bill Russell never lost one said

(33:11):
it best of seventh Games when he wrote, You're about
to run your guts out in five or six miles
of short, frantic sprints. The President has expressed interest in
the outcome. While you're waiting there, shivering in your own sweat,
you can literally feel the energy about to be released
by the fans of the stand. Boston actually started, You
actually started the game, kind of taking a page from

(33:33):
the Lakers playbook. Michael Cooper on the mist parents out
to Maxwell. It's a three on two great for Boston,
and Larry Bird is as a second basket. James, I
actually want to get your opinion on this. It felt
like they made a concerted effort to come out and
run and run you guys as much as possible. Now,

(33:55):
was it simply just a matter of that's that was
the best tactic at that time. Or did it feel
like they were like kind of taking a page from
your book. Well, no, they definitely couldn't take a page
from our book because they couldn't run like we did.
But they had a running game. Here's Dennis Johnson out
of the pack, Maxwell and mccad The Celtics are up

(34:19):
by the eight points at that time. Kevin McHale simply
beat the Lakers down the car they holding topch own.
On the Celtics run. They may not look grateful. They
are hard runners, but they get up the car. But
it wasn't like with the Magic style or Cooper Byron.
You know, they didn't have the sprinters. But I think
twofold one they wanted to try to run Kareem down.

(34:40):
Uh you know, they thought they could run Kareem and
you know he wasn't even like you know, older, but
they thought, you know, in a seventh game they could
they could wears down in that humidity. And I can't
even tell you, Uh, the humidity in Boston, it's like
playing against six people. It it is, because it's like

(35:01):
it's just all day long. When you leave that hotel room,
it just hits you, and we were drinking gatorade water
months in advance, like two months anticipating, you know, being there,
and uh, and it was just I can't even tell
you just drained. You warm it up. You only want
to warm up during the game. So it's hot, it's muggy,

(35:23):
and you gotta play through that, and you can. Most
athletes know how to get through it. But it was
just at the beginning, it was just hard. And I think,
you know, uh, they're used to it, they played in it.
You're just like I grew up in the South and
for a long time I was amused to it, you know,
moreing lawns and that stuff. And when I moved out

(35:44):
here to California, man, I quickly adapted a different you
know climate. So, uh, that wasn't like the truth of
the matter. They were they were good and they jumped.
There was a Game seven and you know, they had
lost game six. They had a lot of intent, they
had like a lot of incentives. So did we, and
then it was game seven. We had never beat the Celtics,

(36:06):
but for them losing Game six in l a and
then coming home, that is a heavy bird to carry
for a visiting team when you know it's that critical,
but you know we had to show up, we had
to put So it's a back and forth game. And
I mean, you know I've already asked Rob this, and
so I mean, I'm interested in your thoughts on it.

(36:27):
It was an eleven point deficit that you cut down
the three in the final ninety seconds, three bottle and
now the Lakers can put it to bread with a
minute behalf now remaining, Isaac Johnson goes up the ball
and here Tennis Johnson two on one break and I've
walked by Coker. I want to play by Coker. He
saved the basket, a sure basket by Boston. Where are

(36:51):
they coming back? It's the temper, right, that's a three
point game, one on five, one on two. But then
on your magic gets caught in traffic. He turns it over.
Johnson with the ball, the Lakers tied to cut it
to water, and he loses it again. Look, Gunnis Johnson

(37:11):
has called in against Cooper again, and this time he's
filed magic. Johnson lost the ball twice coming down the court.
Once he was saved by Cooper, but not this time.
In all of those mistakes he made in Game two
in Game four. That makes you become more cautious. I
think magic and under these circumstances, gets more cautious. You

(37:31):
should be playing with Maura Vanda. Then you get a
miss jumper on the other end and in a misput
back as well, the Lakers Cooper wall for three parts.
Kareem gets the rebound, throws up short and Ti bunds
of the cap and the bostonself. It's had a pole
Port lead. That is Johnson using up some time an

(37:53):
now a foul don't basket A foulers call at this
place is Fettler? Can can you speak to what that
feels like when you're on the court, when you're bat only,
especially when you've cut that and you're cut down a
big lead, when you end up with a turnover, a
couple of bad pleas in a row. It's just frustrated, man.
It's frustrating when you know you a little bit better

(38:16):
and they were good, but you know the mistakes you made,
and you know how you just didn't take care of
situations when you have to. All those things kind of
come into play. But once again, you know you keep
looking and keep looking up at the clock and saying,
what's possible. But when you know it's like getting pretty bleak,
you start saying to you, said, damn should have had

(38:38):
a game too. You know, all those things started coming in,
you know, celebrate you this pack in Boston, Seltons lead
by seven. Well does it hurt when you know it's
not gonna be your right magic? I tell you ran

(39:00):
the clock out, you know, game seven, we should have
got a shot up. You know, you can't go back
and replay it. But those are the scars that you
live with for the rest of your life. Rob don't
know nothing about that. He never lost in the fund,
know nothing about that. I'm sure he could call those
some things from Alabama, baby, but I'm sure there are

(39:22):
some things that you know, the things that you those
are the things that you live with. And you know,
it's also the beauty of being an athlete. It's the
pain and the grind and then the rewards that you
get out of it. And then you know, it's like
the old wide world sports. You know, it's like the
sweet smell of victory and the agony and defeat. All

(39:44):
that stuff really makes you an athlete. And everyone's had it.
Every athletes had it. Pain, injury, you know, disappointment. That's
what being an athlete is all about. Yeah, for me, James,
you know, you look at this game. We remember in
game five how bad the humidity was, and then you
go into game seven, you're thinking about, Okay, you said

(40:06):
it earlier. You're preparing for this humidity, and then you
look around. Your rotation is short because McAdoo is out
and you're not playing anybody on the bench. And I
noticed in that game your top dogs, meaning you, Magic,
Coop and Cap play forty plus minutes. Do you think
that has something to do with you guys down the

(40:27):
stretch not able to score as many points in that
fourth quarter, because in that fourth quarter, you guys only
had twenty four, but you needed more to win that game.
So do you think the fatigue played an issue in
this game? And Rob, you know, in a seven game serious,
they're gonna start taking some things away, are making it harder.
But we were hauling a lot of minutes. You know,

(40:50):
throughout that series we didn't play anybody. Bob McAdoo was out,
Coop came off the bench. Yeah, and I forgot started.
I forget Jamal Wilkes had a mcvirus and he was
not healthy. Throughout this series. Yes, yeah, and he wasn't
you know, we weren't playing Mitch cup Chat. We really
weren't playing you know, even Mike McGee or Larry's none

(41:12):
of those guys we're playing. So we had hauled a
lot of minutes, you know, all throughout the playoffs. So
you know, fatigue is always a factor. The last man
stands is usually the ones that's stronger and could last.
You know, obviously, don't you know, you don't like to
use that, but looking back, you know, there wasn't no
low manners back then. It was just like come on

(41:34):
with it, come on with it. But you know, it
was just the way it was, man But you know,
the following year, we learned from that year, rob We
learned from that year because you look at next year,
you look at when we needed to bring in somebody
to waste some files and stuff. We learned from them.
And you know what, honestly, I have to circle back
with one more thing about this game, because you actually

(41:56):
set it up perfectly when you spoke of poking the bear.
Now you've seen corn Bread into the stands in game
six and in game seven he comes out and he
has you know, as they win going away. He has
eight and eight as well against Magic Johnson. Moving inside
basket is in the file. Somehow he always goes. I
noticed one of the big games he is very much

(42:18):
they do you feel like that might have been a
little bit of poking the barrel on on your good
free and corn Bread? Yeah, I mean corn Bread was good.
You know, he was a nice post up player, you know,
big hy and uh he got the best of me
that year. I know that he'll tell you that. But
I have several photos to be dunking on him now

(42:38):
the over the three times that we played him, so
he remained silent today. We did beat him two out
of three times. Should have been three, but it was.
It was the best series of my career. Of course,
you know, Detroit was good and get a chance to
play MJ. But those Celtics series were no kind of

(43:00):
frame the NBA and kind of brought the NBA to
a place that they hadn't been to. They didn't have
television contracts, you know, it was a different league. You know,
the average salary was like, you know, a hundred thousand
dollars or something like that. So it was good that
to be a part of you know, the start of

(43:20):
something with Bird and magic. The Lakers had never beaten
the Celtics all those years that Elgin Baylor and Jerry
you know, Jerry West never went back to Boston all
those years that we played them. He never went back
because they lost seven times to Bill Russell. And so

(43:42):
we knew we were representing ourselves, but we also were
representing all those players and fans, Chick Hearn and everybody
who just died with those Celtics dominants. So we lost
in eighty Phobo were able to pull of about in
the eighties. So it was it was a great, great

(44:03):
time in a great decade and great Gray having real difficulty,
Dick just getting the crowd off to play the remainder
of this twenty six seconds. Casey Jones is asking everybody
to get back. The photographers are all around, and now
the Celtic players are urging the fans to stay off.

(44:24):
There's nothing that can hardness to an extent a victory
moment more than for the game not to be completed. Well,
they're gonna have to complete because twenty six seconds, that's
plenty enough time for the Lakers to do something. I
wish these people would get back. You know, you go
seven games, that's one of the classics. Final seconds to pay.

(44:51):
It's over. The Boston Celtics are the NBA World Champions
and up growing seven games series with the Los Angeles Lakers.
The Celtics with the best record in the league with
the second best record in the league. The final score

(45:12):
Boston at Los Angeles one oh two. It's my pleasure
to present the Larry O'Brian Trophy to the NBA World
Champion ninety four of Boston Celtics. Congratulations for Red Alberta
number fifteen. What a way to go. I'm wondering do
you feel like even though you guys had one together

(45:33):
in the past, or that you know, like that iteration
of the Lakers had one together? Since this was I
think this was everyone's first experience with the Boston rivalry
in the finals. Do you almost feel like you needed
that as a building block, you know, heading into those
next two matchups that you had with them. I think
what we experienced, yeah, we definitely you know, needed that,
you know, I don't I don't want to say we

(45:55):
needed to feel what it was like to lose, but
we definitely felt the rivalry over the year. Yeah, I
really founded and did a great job, and that's why
they had a chance. You know, we we helped him,
we gave it to him, and they won. And at
the same time, you know, all that was time get up.
I didn't even really care about it when I first

(46:16):
came in the league because I didn't really know that
much about it. I used to be a Celtic fan
growing up when Joe Joe White, Paul Silas, and Charlie
Scott played. You know, and when you realize the impact,
you're talking about two different styles of basketball. One was
accepted over time, the great Boston Celtics one on the

(46:39):
West Coast was not. You know, going into Boston, there
was two ways to get in there. You could travel
at extra thirty minutes to traffic and go all the
way around and come up this wooden ramp. That's how
how find this Jim Boy and are the bus could
let you off U h exactly where the train gets off.

(47:03):
And so you're going bus gets off train, let's out.
You're going in the arena to this certain elevator that
takes you down. But while are you waiting for that elevator,
those fans are coming in the causeway and they're just
letting you have it. And you know, nowadays you wouldn't
have that, you know, guys wouldn't they have security and everything.
So you had to deal with a lot of stuff.

(47:25):
So I understood going in the box and what what
the mentality was. And they loved their their sports figures,
and you know, we didn't want to lose. But losing
well everything into a perspective, full circle, and so they're
prepared us for you know, what was to come next.
You know, when I when I watched the ending of

(47:47):
the game selling, I saw lanky bird truck a couple
of people, a couple of fans that stormed the court.
So come on, be honest, did you truck a couple
of fans and fresh stracon trying to get off the
court before they know they did anything? Crazy? Rob, this
is a true story. Uh you played did you play

(48:07):
the guard? You did? Yes? Yes? Yeah, okay. So at
the end of that game seven, Uh, it was a
mad house and you could see prior to the clock
running out of time. You can see the policemen or
the security guards like surrounding the court. The fans were
already h ready to come out. They were gonna make

(48:29):
a mad rush. So I saw that and I was like, man,
we gotta get out of here quickly. As a team.
I think, you know, most of us got out fairly quickly.
But but I do remember the footage of Larry Bird
and he was cocking his own fans man like, I
was like, yeah, thank you, Larry, I'm glad, I'm glad

(48:51):
you were. Okay, all right, let's take one more quick break.
But when we come back, we give out the NBA
Finals Final awards for this series, including a very prestigious
Big Shot Bob Award for the most clutch player. Find
out who wins after the break, and maybe we can
keep James around for an award. All right, welcome back

(49:16):
here on the NBA Finals file. Let's go ahead and
knock these awards out. Let's actually kick things off with
the big Shot Bob Award. Go ahead and take us away.
We're give an award called the Big Shot Bob Award.
So who would be your big shot of this series?
Combat to build a Bird because uh, as much as
I don't, you know, not a big fan, he was
an amazing ball player. He's a big shots and carry

(49:39):
that team, And so you can't deny its greatness and
what he was able to do to to carry them
to a championship. You know, And on the flip side
of my big shot of the game, is James Big
Game worthy? Outside of Game three? Your performance was incredible,
you know, a young guy in the league stepping into
the finals for his first time and performing at a

(50:01):
high level. And I'm not just saying that because you're
on this show, but you're my big shot of this game.
I was ready, Rob, I was ready. And on that note,
thank you so much for joining us to Dave James.
I definitely appreciate your time and appreciate your insight, appreciate
you know, just blessing us, blessing us with those stories.
Thank you, Big Gay. All right, Absolutely fantastic to have

(50:23):
Big Game on with us. I'll be honest with you,
I would star struct the entire time. I'm saying, I
sit across from you on these shows and I'm sitting
here starstruck, and then you bring in your Big Game,
so it's just you're just setting me up for failure.
It's setting me up for all types of mistakes and
along the way. But no, fantastic to have him. Let's
go ahead and get into the rest of these awards.
If you don't. Who's your m v P for this

(50:44):
is now? I mean, is it? Is it anybody other
than Bird? You know what, as much as I would
like to give that ward to someone other than Bird,
his hand down, Larry Bird, Larry Legend was dominant in
this series, averaging twenty plus ones and in rebounds and
double digit rebounds. This guy was simply amazing. Congratulations, you

(51:06):
were the most Valuable Player and I must add that
they said you were gonna be the m v P
if Boston even lost this game tonight. That's how great
this series was. What does it mean, Delarious means a lot.
But there's a lot of players out there are still
capable winning MVP Award and r King and the Bar
and some of the others. But right now we're just
feel happy about winning. Larry. Does this get you even

(51:28):
with magic or what happened between Michigan State Indiana State
all those years ago that we're professions now? But I
want this with for Tarr Hope. You wanted for Tara Hope.
I'll tell you that great series and we're gonna be
back with Statson and some of the Oka or the
boss at Celtics locker rooms. Just the moment, very thank you,

(51:49):
and I give him the m v P just for
the way he exited the court after he wanted all, look,
I'm not even Gonnam mince words. Larry Bird was absolutely
fantastic in the series. I think you know, you know
that I think all time Magic is the guy, but
in this series, at this point in their lives, Larry

(52:11):
took the crop Bird spot does up anyway? Well, you
said an help question that Larry Bird the man. The
Celtics were levered c You know that now they tied
it up to too, you know, in terms of personal titles.
But it just into two big games point from earlier.
It just made eighty five that much more, you know,

(52:32):
that much more serious to him, and then obviously eighty
seven to foll. But yeah, Larry Bird was myam VB
without question. What about the your best role player? I
think for me the best role player was Cedric Maxwell
because James talked about that push in the back. Even
though Cedric was uh up and down with scoring, I
think he played played good defense on Magic. Sometimes they

(52:55):
you know, they put a bigger guy on Magic, but
Cedric Maxwell to me was a guy who stepped up
big in Game seven, you know, going out having eight
that's huge. They asked me about this, what the championship
means to you. It's great. Great. I think we played
with our hearts. I like to say hello to my mom,

(53:16):
all my friend brothers, all the megas out there in
the world. I win number one, baby. Yet, so he
is my role player the game because he didn't get
a lot of plays right for him, but he stepped
up big in the biggest moment. I'm not mad at
that selection. And to be honest with you, I think
I agree because the trouble is, like, for instance, like
I can't call Big Game a role player. He's all
you know, he ends up being a Hall of Famer,

(53:36):
and you know he was. He was a pivotal part
of the pivotal part of this this series. Kevin mckill.
You know, he had some ups and downs in this series.
So truth be told, I I do agree with you.
I think Centrin Maxwell is probably the guy there. Yeah. Oh,
you know, A close second for me was Robert Pass
just because I like the name Robert, just because we're
gonna stick with that one, all right. Not mad at
you not mad at you, Mr Mr Robert Keith Thori,

(53:58):
All right, what about the coaching matchup? And I didn't
want to be disrespectful with you know, with James on
the line, but I do think the Casey outcoached the
mess out of this series. I think I do best
leave in the world right now, the best telling y'all
out there, like very much. I'm just the whole thing

(54:21):
by myself, and I got something help from raw, from
Larah Bird. However, thanks for this guy help me throughout
the whole year. And you know what, I I won't
say Casey out coached him. I just think that in
Game seven, pat Riley ran into a rotation problem because
he didn't have Bob McAdoo who was out. Silk Wilkes

(54:43):
was sick. And when you got two of your your
your top guys coming off the bench unavailable, it's a problem.
And you gotta look at what Casey did. You know,
He says, Okay, these guys are shorthanded, let's run them.
Let's trying to make Cape right. Because there's no Bob
McAdoo to come in this game and to get points

(55:04):
in his replaced as his replacement. So I give Casey
Jones the top coach of this series because he took
a page out of pat Riley's book and use it
against him. And I'm not mad at that. I'm not
mad at that. I can already hear Boston fans being
mad at us for not saying, wait a second, Scott Wedman,
he was injured, you know, like in the second half
of the second half of the of of the you know,

(55:25):
the series. But the truth of the matter is, you're right.
If you don't have the horses, you don't have the horses.
But two cases credit, you know. I do think in
that Game seven, they came out and said we're gonna
beat you at your game, and that's exactly what they did.
So fantastic time honestly breaking down this series with you.
Do you have any final thoughts on the series? I
think the eighty four finals was a stepping stone for

(55:46):
the NBA um with David Stern been in the building
and realizing how great a match up this was. It
started in college with Larry Legend versus the Magic Man,
and to carry over into a bigger stage. And David
Stern looked at this and says, man, there's so many
things that we can, you know, use this for to

(56:08):
advance the NBA and to protect our players because if
you look at the way they crashed the floor after
they wanted, somebody could have got hurt, not just the
opposing team, but your the home team. And so he
took care of that. But he also went out and said, yo, yo, TV,
look who we did. Don't delay us anymore. Hey, TV,

(56:28):
look at the sponsorship we brought in. Give us more.
And you have to take your hat off to David
Stern for sin the greatness of this series and utilizing
the bird the Magic matchup to expand the NBA the
way he did. I think this series alone is why
so many players in the NBA are having the contracts

(56:51):
that they had, because David Stern was a visionary to
see what this series was doing and what was gonna
do for the NBA without without a doubt, and and
to be honest with you, while you know there there's
always gonna be criticisms of you know, lead commissioners because
you know they're never going to do everything that everyone
wants them to do. I will say the NBA absolutely

(57:13):
grew as was globalized as a result, you know, from
David starn And and if this was the origin or
if it was the you know, the origin of it
was you know, him recognizing that that college matchup and
you know, you know, you know Magic winding up in
Los Angeles and you know, perfect to you know, perfect
to cast Larry Bird winding up in in Boston. Kudos
to him for having that foresight. Kudos for him, you know,

(57:33):
for forgetting the NBA off of tape delay and you know,
things and things of that nature, because I don't think
the league is as great as it is currently, you know,
without those without the changes and in the you know,
the progress that was made in the eighties. You know,
some things were just meant to be and the stars
were in alignment for this to happen. And thank God
for that. Absolutely. All right, thanks so much for tuning
in this week. Make sure you tune in next week

(57:54):
when we're breaking down the finals with a great Center's
matchup as well as somebody from on the show.