March 28, 2022 • 29 mins
Hosted by Sarah Kustok, NBA Flashback is the podcast that takes you back to the best moments in NBA history through exclusive archival audio from the NBA vault, along with new interviews with the players and coaches who were in the building.
In this episode of NBA Flashback, we go back to March 29th, 1990 and relive the night that Hakeem Olajuwon recorded just the 3rd quadruple-double in NBA history. We talk with Hakeem's long-time teammate, and a guy who actually outscored Hakeem in this game, Buck Johnson, about how Hakeem developed his all-around game, where Hakeem ranks among the all-time greats, and even Hakeem's rapping skills.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
NBA Flashback is a production of iHeart Radio in the
NBA And Akim gets a block, He gets a second block, stiff,
gonna try it again? Yeah, you get the dog block.
When will I ever learned? Never apparently says get that
stuff all. It's just all a one getting up in
(00:24):
the air with rules to operate. Find a turn based wine. Hey,
allow you on here. David Robinson, Jeff bam Bogle looking
on coming. He swept at home from my field, makes
(00:50):
a move left her. How I was gonna got from
my Hackim the dream a la Juan one of the
best players in NBA history, maybe the most skilled in
athletic big man ever to play in the league. During
the season, he led the NBA in both rebounds and blocks,
(01:13):
and on this special night, he did something that has
only been accomplished four times in NBA history, a quadruple double.
I'm sarahcu Stock and you're listening to NBA Flashback, the
show that takes you back to the greatest moments in
NBA history, using archival audio from the NBA as well
as new interviews with the players and coaches who were
(01:36):
in the building. On today's episode, we go back to
March when mc hammer was taken over the world with
You Can't Touch This. The Simpsons had just started their
first season and McAuley culkin was soon to be left
home alone for the holidays. We're nearing the end of
the NBA regular season and the Rockets and Bucks are
(01:58):
both battling for playoff spots. On this night in Houston,
a twenty seven year old Hakim a la Juan had
something special in store for Milwaukee. And we are joined
by a man who was a la Juan's teammate for
six years and actually outscored Hakim in this game, Buck Johnson.
I am thrilled to have Buck Johnson joining us here,
(02:19):
taking us back to March twenty nine, Bucks versus the Rockets,
a Chem a la Juan with that quadruple double. Welcome
back to the Summit, everybody, Bill Warrel along with Mike
Ellan man the HNC crew, as we've got NBA action
for you tonight. Milwaukee thirty seven and thirty two with
one of the best road records in the NBA going
(02:40):
against the Houston Rockets thirty six. Rockets one game behind
Seattle in the battle for that eight playoff spot, but
Bucket It's just so great to have you and great
to talk with you. And most importantly, I was looking back.
We're gonna be talking a lot about Hakim, but I
was looking back at your numbers and everything that you
were able to accomplish. The season was your best in
(03:01):
the NBA. You started every game for the Rockets, your
average fifteen points, five rebounds, three assists. What was the
key to your success that season? Well, you know, I
think it was signing a new contract. You know that
had always helped, right, I think in January that year,
I signed an extension and so man, I was so
(03:22):
excited to be, you know, to be brought back on
with the Rockets for its second term for you know,
a new contract. And so that was one of my
best years as a Rocket, and so I was. I
was very excited to be playing alongside of Kim of
laj Juan, and we had a lot of a great
guys like Oldest Thorpe and Larry Smith and Sleepy Floyd.
(03:42):
Starting right up for your at one guard six ft
three in Georgia number Eric sleep before head guard six
four inches from Florida state number fifteen, Joel. We're gonna
at one forward six seven inches for Labama number one,
(04:05):
but Johnson at forward six b genities for promnence number
thirty three, Oldish from the University of Houston, number thirty four.
So I appeared with some really great guys, and so
I was very excited to be a part of the team.
(04:27):
How we needs to be a part of the team.
How would you describe what your role was on that team?
So for me, mostly my role was more of a
defensive role. You know, I was I was the guy
that would you know, take on the the opposing score
on the other team. And usually back in those days,
it was mostly the two guards and the three small forwards.
(04:47):
You know, it took up most of the scoring and
did a lot of scoring most of the teams, and
so I had to match up with those guys, and
so defensively, my my role on the team was more
of a defensive role, even though though I add some
some some pretty good numbers. Um, I got most of
my points out in uh in transition, and so being
able to you know, run and then get out in
(05:09):
transition was it was how I was able to to
get my scoring in on that here. I love that
you bring that up, Buck, because in particular watching this game.
First of all, it was a really crucial game. You
guys were in a battle for the eighth playoff spot
in the West. But early in the game you had
a tremendous block. You ran the floor, scored. On the
other end, I offer a fast break and transition initiates
(05:34):
a fast break. All this I didn't think you was
keeven passing it so quick and the pass was it
in this game in particular, the strategy to get out
and run against the bucks or do you feel like
that was very characteristic of how you guys played, But
that was that was mostly how we played. You know,
uh in the head courts said, you know a team
(05:56):
alage one, he got most of the touches down low
in the head quest sets. So that's he was such
a threat offensively. You know, he was unguardable back in
those days. You on working on stuff from seven points
(06:16):
where I had you on. But you mentioned that Hakim
he had tremendous body control and quickness for a big man,
and you got to watch him develop his skills in
the NBA. Take us inside, you know, the gym, the practice,
the practice hours, all of those times that so many
people weren't able to see. How did he work on
his moves during practice? Well, I think he did. And
(06:38):
what we would do each before each game, um in particular,
before games would started to Kim and I we were
rushed again inside the the arena thing and and get
our uniforms on and go out, go out, And before
the actual game started, he and I would ben We
even worked up us a laugh there, a good sweat
playing a one on one game. And so I knew
(07:00):
from him guard me as a small folk, what he
would do to those centers who who wasn't uh as quick,
you know, on their feet and stuff. And so from
him being able to guard me the way he was
able to guard me in and vice versa, I just
knew that it was not going to be in the
center that could keep up with him. And so he
practiced a lot on his perimeter game and his his
(07:21):
all around game. Even when you know nobody was watching,
he would always get in there, and he challenged me
and challenge other than some of the guards to even
get out there with him and and work on his
perimeter game. Even the way back then, you know, were
you guys keeping scoring those one on one games? You
know I tried. You know, I did all my best
to win one of those games, but he he would
(07:43):
never let me win. Even if I did win, he
would he wouldn't see when me when the tester that
I won that day. You know, yeah, he would, he would.
It was hard to beat him, even in practice, even
in you know, pick up, even in one on one stuff.
He would just like I said, he was ahead of
his time way back then. You know. Well, fortunately the
(08:05):
games you didn't have to play against him, and he
was he was on your side. So obviously in order
to get the quadruple double, had to pass the ball
really well. And in this game he was getting double team,
triple team on the block, and he did such a
nice job of finding the open man the triple teams. Yeah,
(08:26):
doing notice recognize the triple team and got it out
in a hurry. That's the key. That's what was it
like for someone like you to play with the team
because so much of the defense was focused on him
and made it so much easier for most of us
because like you said, he demanded a double team. You know,
(08:49):
no matter who we played, it was no center in
the league that could guard him one on one, and
so he decommanded the double team almost each game that
we played, and so for us, you know, and that's
why I know when I left there, Robert Ory, which
was he was a lot better jump shooting than I was.
He was able to capitalize off of some of those
double teams a lot more than I did because he
(09:11):
was such a he was a lot better jump shooting
than I was. I was more of a slasher, you know, driver, Uh,
get to the end, get out of transition and get
basket and transition. But for most of our guards, man,
he made the game so easy for us because he
demanded double teams, and he when he passed it out,
you know, we swing the ball a couple of times,
we had wide open shots. So he did make the
(09:31):
game a lot easier for everybody on the team. Early
in his career, it's it seemed like a little bit
of trouble passing out of the double team. How much
did you see how to work on that and developed
that throughout the course of his career, You're right, And
then the beginning the first when I first got that
first couple of years or so, it was a challenge
sometimes for him, But man, I mean after you know,
(09:54):
getting double teams so much. You know, throughout his career
he became just an excellent pass out of the of
a team and so it took him a little while,
but man, once he got it, man, he just I mean,
and that's why they were able to go on to
win championships because of his willingness to pass out of
the double team and get his guys open to make
the game easier for everybody. Hakeem's longtime teammate Clyde Drexler
(10:15):
reflected on a la Juan's growth is a passer developed.
I mean, here's a guy who was, uh, having trouble
passing out the double team is the first couple of
years in the league. And then from that he became
a great passer. He became a great teammate, and his
game just matured. Like all young players, you know, you
have facets of your game that are stronger than others.
But when you become complete, that's when it's fun to watch,
(10:38):
and that's when it's like artistry. It's it's like fun
to watch a guy who's on top of his game,
who knows everything, knows when to do it, where to
do it, and what for, and his teammates love that.
If you you have a guy you played with like that,
it's the thing of beauty coming up. Hakim is racking
up the stats and closing in on history. But there's
(11:00):
more to the story. This wasn't the first time a
La Juan had come very close to a quadruple double.
Robertson over at enbund reblock all right, rise you on,
(11:27):
thanks you down, has eight points. There was a play
early in the second quarter where Hakim blocks a shot,
gets the rebound, gets the ball back on the other end,
it passes to you for the assists. And it seemed
like watching him through his career, he didn't block shots
into the crowd. It wasn't about, you know, the showmanship value.
(11:48):
He would block shots and try to get the ball
on the run. So wid you on the thirteen points,
nine rebounds, five block shots, and three assist and we're
still in the first half. Your team is played so well.
He just never has a bad game one way or
the other. He dodges damn it. I just can't remember
(12:10):
the last time I saw him with a poor game.
We are some games, Michael. You'd rather see him pass
it a little more, maybe create a little more offense
for the rest of his teammates. But other than that,
that's about really the only fault. What did his defense
do in helping to generate your offense and generating your pace?
Oh yeah, well it made it. Like I said, he's
on all of us offensively as well as defensively, because
(12:32):
we knew that if we did get beat, and you know,
if you're up and playing defensive pressure defense, sometimes you're
gonna get beat. But man, it made us. It made
it so much easier for us knowing that we had
a guy like a King that had great time and
it's such a great shot block of that if we
did get beat, you know that he was there to
back us up and and could block shots. And and
(12:52):
like you said, he didn't block them just to get
the crowd, you know, in the friends or anything. He
blocked him to control the ball just are our fast break.
And so most of the time that he did block shots,
he kept it under control. He would even get the
ball himself or after block shot and and outlet the
ball to one of us for for easy basket. On
the other end. The sixth block of the game for
(13:15):
a team, all the shot of the altar port. What
preached up. I mean, he was just an amazing town,
amazing athlete throughout his entire career. You know he did that.
I think from day one, Drexla remembered his college days
with Dream and her team's incredible defensive ability. Defensively, he's
(13:37):
a stalwart. He's there for everyone when he's on the floor.
All the other four players are better defensive players because
he's there, because he gets to everything. His range is incredible.
He gets up so high so quickly. He's gonna block
most shots. And if he doesn't block him, he's gonna
he's gonna change him. He's gonna alter the shot. And
so in college, just like when I became a rocket,
(13:58):
I'd always say, Dream, when you when you block it,
block it up towards the free throw line, because that's
gonna start the fast break. I'll get it and I'm gone.
I said, you don't even have to run down court.
After that, he would say, okay, Dregs, I got you.
Drake's But you know, we had a lot of stuff
like that going. But you know, he was so good defensively,
I mean, one of the best defensive Bill Russell Chamberlain
(14:20):
along that line. Defensively, tam pointly on a team. Look
at how he spotted the Wiggins who uses then to
break job by a team. He looked all over the
court and went over the talk. Well, he was showing
off his whole bag on this night. Quotas al you
on over the sleepy three point. Yes, he's got more
(14:41):
moves of the guard and he shuts up guards. Now
seventy one, seventy two, and seventy three three pointers for
Floyd on the season three of this game. Stop and
that's seven assists. Now for why is you on? Let's
start talking about Let's start talking about some more just
sub announcers on the Rockets TV broadcast realized in the
(15:02):
middle of the third quarter at Kim had sixteen points,
eleven rebounds, seven blocks, seven assists and only needed three
more blocks three more assists for the quadruple double. For
your fans watching, now, keep in mind if you're keeping
store at home, a Keen needs three blocks and pre
assist for a quadruple double. Are you kidding? And he
gets one of those two categories, he gets his triple double. Geez,
(15:24):
that'd be great. Twenty second time out called by the Rocket.
My question though, is when did you guys on the
bench or on the court realized what was happening stats wise, well,
you know what, we saw it every day, So it
wasn't a big surprise for us. Like I said, he
could have even had a I don't know what you
call a five way triple double bit, but for those
(15:45):
of you keeping score at home, that would be a
quintuple double. It's never happened, well not yet. He could
have easily had ten steals as well, you know, because
he was he was one of the league leaders and
steals and so it could have easily been ten steals
on top of all of those other stats, you know.
And so we saw it daily. You know, we saw
(16:05):
that kind of stuff. I mean, you you better protect
that ball. I don't know, I don't care it was
the guard, forward, center, whoever it was, but you had
to protect the ball again against him. And so I'm
surprised he didn't have us that lie like that, with
with Steal's being one of the one of the double
figures that lines. You know, Kim had a quadruple double
a couple of weeks earlier, but after a video review
(16:27):
by the NBA, they took away one of his assists
then Rockets assistant coach Rudy tom Jonovich remembered what Hakim
said to them when they told him that quadruple double
had been taken away. The assistant coach Carol Dawson, who
worked with him in and uh and me, we were
both very very disappointed. And uh we went to a
(16:48):
chem and and told him the situation, and and uh,
he wasn't that upset, you know, and he saw how
we felt about it, because you know, we loved the
sky and what he had done was amazing. And he said,
you know, don't worry, guys. He says, you know, I'll
get another one. And those things just don't happen. When
(17:09):
Hakim found out he had a quadruple double the first time,
he didn't know what a quadruple double was. And they
made this announcement and all the reporters were coming to
me and tapping about this quae truple double was it
was that they have to explain to me. So I
felt honored and I was very happy. Then the second
day the NBA took that away and they said, well,
(17:31):
there was when I when I seized that encounter or something.
So I was kind of disappointed because I didn't know
about it before, you know, somebody told me and I
was very happy. Then the next day they said, well
this wasn't true, you know, So then that that becomes
a goal for me to shoot for. Watching this game,
we saw him do it all and so much of
it was on the defensive side. Black Corporate. Robert put
(17:58):
it up and it's gonna be a point of a
second violation. The ball never touched a round and I
lie Jouan now with eight block shots, eight assists, watch
it again. Such a beautiful play. Gosh, the guy is
just incredible. I just hope he gets each other people blocked.
Do you feel like this was the most or one
(18:19):
of the most impressive performances you saw from Hakim. Defensively, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I would imagine so, just like you said, dominating on
both ends. He was such a great shot blocker. He
was I mean, Jimmy, even if he didn't block the shot,
he would alter it, can pass nine block shot, Janni
(18:43):
had preple double and then he was quick enough on
his feet to even after the altar shot, he was
able to corral the rebound and start off as break
and so uh. Defensively he was a force I mean,
he was, like I said, as fast as most guards
and and forwards. But then his athletics cilan being you know,
he says some foot when we all know he's not
quite seven footer, you know, but he played like he
(19:05):
was them foot or more, you know. So yeah, man,
he's dominant force on the defensive. Me and for sure
his former Rockets teammate Kenny Smith didn't care how tall
a Keem was the best player on the planet. There's
no one better. And the difference with the team is
if he was five eleven, he would have been the
best player on the planet. Didn't have to be six eleven.
(19:27):
His work ethic and the things his skill set that
he had five eleven guys have you know what I mean,
Like small guys all big guys. It didn't matter. You know,
certain guys, Well, he's really good because he's big. You know,
he's really good because he's fast. It's really good because
he's small. No, no matter what size he was, he
would have been the best player on the planet. You
guys are up thirty with about five minutes left to go.
(19:50):
When this one and A team just needed two more
assists for the quadruple double bound him block shots. Let
the love and block shot, but allows you On. Maybe
you could use him in the other category. Two more assists,
and he has a quadruple double. So so he's got
(20:11):
to get the pass in that ball. Rockets have to
make it. There's number eleven, man, I bring it down
and just throw it into him and let it pass
it out every time, Down said everybody, and Star has
had a great quote about a cheam the other night.
He said, he's here, he's there, he's everywhere. Do you
remember what it was like in the arena as the
crowd started to cheer akim On. You know when when
there's a record to be broken like that, you know,
(20:32):
the crowd gets into it and we're all trying to
help out. We we did not want to be the
guy that didn't make the basket when needed, piss the
ball back out to us. Axwell gets the bucket and
allow you On gets his ninth assist of the game,
one more assistant. I like, you want as a quadruple double,
but Milwaukee wants the time out to talk it over.
(20:54):
And I know I can't remember exactly how the crowd was,
but I know I'm just knowing our crowd back in
the day of knowing Houston fans that we had amazing
fans and so I'm sure they would just you know,
just going crazy at the time. Well, he gets that
tent assist Lewis Lloyd be able to rebound if you're
back out to you put it up. Yeah, that we're
(21:16):
not gonna lose grouple double for heem willie you on.
And just like that, at Rim called well, we'll come
into the huh, don't be louing tonight. Aunt Cheney will
call it time out. He wants to get Ali Juan
out there. It is eighteen points sixteen rebounds, can assists
(21:40):
at eleven block shots, only the third quad group will double.
In the history of the nbair, listen to the crowd
in the summer Sanny Novation put the ground and see
a huge smile I'm h Keen's face as he runs
back and you guys, let's louis uh And you can
tell that there's a lot of excitement. And did he
(22:01):
ever say anything about what that quadruple double meant to him?
You know what? He never talked about it hardly, And
like I said, he was so humble. He never really
thought about that. He was just out playing, having a
good time, you know, being his regular dominat himself. You know,
he never really talked about it. He really we we
we really didn't talk about it too much. You know,
we congratulated him, but to go on about it and
(22:23):
you know, to discuss it further than that, we really did.
We moved on to the next game, and so and
that's how he was. He didn't he didn't care about stats,
you know, all that stuff. He just wanted to win.
And so I was just proud to be, you know,
part of that team with him on that A very
excited Rockets legend. Calvin Burphy talked to Akim and his
family after that historic game. Let me see here we
(22:49):
we we have just seen history. I am so abouping
up part of history. We got a eleven block shop
eighteen point sixteen, naige you want, and we have the
reason why he's so good out here tonight. We have
the beauties though, tremendous game. Congratulations, Well thank you. I
think I dedicated his game to my daughter. Oh hes
dedicated to his daughters. So we gotta hear some words
(23:11):
from door to say, hello, tremendous, tremendous, Let me calm down.
I'm sitting next to the maybe the best center to
play the game in the last twenty five years tonight.
What was the reason for all of the of the
category league? Did you? Did you know that you had
a chance for the quad? Uh? Anywhere during the game
period and told me so. I was concentrating and so
(23:33):
they told you about the quad. I mean, how do
you feel like being a part of history now? He's
a big accomplishment for me. I'm happy. Let's let's look
at the after the monitor here that's showing everything that
you get tonight, the assisting, the rebounding, the passing, and
I want the world to know that I am one
of his coaches. Let's not forget this bucked up. I'm
gonna let him go. I know we can keep him
(23:55):
here all night. But he's excited. He wants to be
with his family, and I'm excited for him. Bill, you
take it away, congratulations. When we come back, we hear
about Hakim's pranks or maybe just about his hit single.
(24:20):
You were Hakim's teammate for six years in Houston, and
you've talked about a lot of qualities that he possessed
on the floor. But what was the one thing that
Hakim did that impressed you most well, just since humility.
You know, he was a very humble guy. Um. He
never talked much about himself, you know, even though he
was he was the best and one of the best
(24:40):
athletes in the league, one of the best players in
the league. But just his humility off the court, you know,
he had a great sense of humor. He and I
would get together even on off days, and we clown
around and we do stuff that people didn't see, you know,
outside of the court, and so on the court, he
had this this game face on most of the time.
But man, off the court, he was the biggest prankster.
(25:02):
He was one of the guys that laughed all the time.
We just had so much fun doing other stuff outside
off the court. And so I think people don't don't
realize that enough, that he was such a humble guy
and such a nice guy to be around. What were
some of the best pranks you remember then with Hakim
when you talk about him being a jokester, just the
(25:24):
way he is, just a sense of humor, and you know,
he actually even had a rap video, a rep song
at one time. I don't know if you guys, remember that.
And he was he was unbeatable. He was unbelievable. Dream
dream Dream drink tea, you know. And so I would
teach him about that all the time. And so he
(25:45):
found out the kind of music I like it. I
liked a lot of reggae back in the day. And
so he would always come in and I remember one
partaking time, he had me a cassette tape on my arm,
on my dance uh and my locker, and it was
it was. It was an old reggae, a third world
reggae tape. And so just little things like that, and
just having a great sense of human and now always
(26:07):
uplifting people. Man, he really can do it all. They
talk about lost Valuable Player Award Michael, and I'm sure
Michael Jordan is going to be considered Magic Johnson. Anybody
who wins the championship with that man right there. Look
at those numbers, every bit of it. No, walking didn't
(26:28):
naked each before. Hi wait the gold. You have to
be a great player and a hard work at the conference.
Trap at this point was still just developing his game,
and it was four more years till he would become
the finals m v P. You talked about what you
saw to him throughout the course of playing with him,
(26:48):
But when did when did you first see his potential
to be the best player in the world. Well, you
know what I saw it from day one, to be honest,
which as a as a rookie coming into Houston and
he and raft together and just as athletics. Sel I mean,
he would out run us guards and fowards down the
court in our drills. I mean, he's the first in line.
He be the first guy now on the at the
(27:09):
end of the court, and so I mean he just
had it all. I mean, and so I could tell
very early on he was going to be, you know,
a top guy in the league for many, many years
to come. Well, we appreciate you've given us all the insight,
not only about this game, but about someone who we
have just adored watching and continue to watch the old
highlights Ofkimla Juan and of course of yourself. But before
(27:32):
we let you go, can you tell us about what
you're doing these days with the Retired Players Association and
the Legends HBCU Scholarship program. Well, yeah, I mean it
retired players. So James has a vast amount of wonderful
programs for former players, and I've been involved in a few. Actually,
I've been involved in assistant coaches program. I went on
two separate occasions and then participated in advertires coaches program
(27:56):
in which i've you know, I played also eight years
over in Europe after my NBA days six years in Houston,
the two years and watching, and then I went and
played another eight nine years over in Europe. But when
I finished Europe, I came back and decided that, you know,
I thought about coaching, and sure enough, the NBA Retired
Players Association has some wonderful programs get you back in
(28:18):
and involved in coaching, and so I did that a
couple of times. They also have programs to you know,
if you're interested in in broadcasting. I went and attended
one of their you know, broadcasting programs as well, and so, man,
there's so many different programs. I mean, if you want
to get into franchise and rest of our franchise, and
there's programs for that. I mean, HBCU they have a
(28:40):
great partnership with the HBCUs. Right now, I'm coaching in
the high school, a little small Christian high school and
right outside of Birmingham, and so I've been doing that
for the last couple of years. Bark, that is tremendous
giving back to to the future. I should have called
you coach Johnson then when I when I introduce you
bringing you on here, I spend time playing when I
(29:00):
played it too, Paul, we played down at u A
B I love Birmingham, Yeah, so much love for that place.
So uh, that's amazing. All the great things you're doing
for the community. We really appreciate that, and I know
all the young kids down there I'm sure appreciate that
as well. But we can't thank you enough for your
time and your memories. Well, thank you so much for
having me. This is great. I love talking about the
(29:21):
Keem And like I said, he's my favorite, one of
my all time favorites. And uh and I'm just so
proud to be he had, you know, I had the
chance to play with him alongside him. NBA Flashback is
a production of I Heart Radio and the NBA. For
more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
NBA Flashback is a production of iHeart Radio in the
NBA And Akim gets a block, He gets a second block, stiff,
gonna try it again? Yeah, you get the dog block.
When will I ever learned? Never apparently says get that
stuff all. It's just all a one getting up in
(00:24):
the air with rules to operate. Find a turn based wine. Hey,
allow you on here. David Robinson, Jeff bam Bogle looking
on coming. He swept at home from my field, makes
(00:50):
a move left her. How I was gonna got from
my Hackim the dream a la Juan one of the
best players in NBA history, maybe the most skilled in
athletic big man ever to play in the league. During
the season, he led the NBA in both rebounds and blocks,
(01:13):
and on this special night, he did something that has
only been accomplished four times in NBA history, a quadruple double.
I'm sarahcu Stock and you're listening to NBA Flashback, the
show that takes you back to the greatest moments in
NBA history, using archival audio from the NBA as well
as new interviews with the players and coaches who were
(01:36):
in the building. On today's episode, we go back to
March when mc hammer was taken over the world with
You Can't Touch This. The Simpsons had just started their
first season and McAuley culkin was soon to be left
home alone for the holidays. We're nearing the end of
the NBA regular season and the Rockets and Bucks are
(01:58):
both battling for playoff spots. On this night in Houston,
a twenty seven year old Hakim a la Juan had
something special in store for Milwaukee. And we are joined
by a man who was a la Juan's teammate for
six years and actually outscored Hakim in this game, Buck Johnson.
I am thrilled to have Buck Johnson joining us here,
(02:19):
taking us back to March twenty nine, Bucks versus the Rockets,
a Chem a la Juan with that quadruple double. Welcome
back to the Summit, everybody, Bill Warrel along with Mike
Ellan man the HNC crew, as we've got NBA action
for you tonight. Milwaukee thirty seven and thirty two with
one of the best road records in the NBA going
(02:40):
against the Houston Rockets thirty six. Rockets one game behind
Seattle in the battle for that eight playoff spot, but
Bucket It's just so great to have you and great
to talk with you. And most importantly, I was looking back.
We're gonna be talking a lot about Hakim, but I
was looking back at your numbers and everything that you
were able to accomplish. The season was your best in
(03:01):
the NBA. You started every game for the Rockets, your
average fifteen points, five rebounds, three assists. What was the
key to your success that season? Well, you know, I
think it was signing a new contract. You know that
had always helped, right, I think in January that year,
I signed an extension and so man, I was so
(03:22):
excited to be, you know, to be brought back on
with the Rockets for its second term for you know,
a new contract. And so that was one of my
best years as a Rocket, and so I was. I
was very excited to be playing alongside of Kim of
laj Juan, and we had a lot of a great
guys like Oldest Thorpe and Larry Smith and Sleepy Floyd.
(03:42):
Starting right up for your at one guard six ft
three in Georgia number Eric sleep before head guard six
four inches from Florida state number fifteen, Joel. We're gonna
at one forward six seven inches for Labama number one,
(04:05):
but Johnson at forward six b genities for promnence number
thirty three, Oldish from the University of Houston, number thirty four.
So I appeared with some really great guys, and so
I was very excited to be a part of the team.
(04:27):
How we needs to be a part of the team.
How would you describe what your role was on that team?
So for me, mostly my role was more of a
defensive role. You know, I was I was the guy
that would you know, take on the the opposing score
on the other team. And usually back in those days,
it was mostly the two guards and the three small forwards.
(04:47):
You know, it took up most of the scoring and
did a lot of scoring most of the teams, and
so I had to match up with those guys, and
so defensively, my my role on the team was more
of a defensive role, even though though I add some
some some pretty good numbers. Um, I got most of
my points out in uh in transition, and so being
able to you know, run and then get out in
(05:09):
transition was it was how I was able to to
get my scoring in on that here. I love that
you bring that up, Buck, because in particular watching this game.
First of all, it was a really crucial game. You
guys were in a battle for the eighth playoff spot
in the West. But early in the game you had
a tremendous block. You ran the floor, scored. On the
other end, I offer a fast break and transition initiates
(05:34):
a fast break. All this I didn't think you was
keeven passing it so quick and the pass was it
in this game in particular, the strategy to get out
and run against the bucks or do you feel like
that was very characteristic of how you guys played, But
that was that was mostly how we played. You know,
uh in the head courts said, you know a team
(05:56):
alage one, he got most of the touches down low
in the head quest sets. So that's he was such
a threat offensively. You know, he was unguardable back in
those days. You on working on stuff from seven points
(06:16):
where I had you on. But you mentioned that Hakim
he had tremendous body control and quickness for a big man,
and you got to watch him develop his skills in
the NBA. Take us inside, you know, the gym, the practice,
the practice hours, all of those times that so many
people weren't able to see. How did he work on
his moves during practice? Well, I think he did. And
(06:38):
what we would do each before each game, um in particular,
before games would started to Kim and I we were
rushed again inside the the arena thing and and get
our uniforms on and go out, go out, And before
the actual game started, he and I would ben We
even worked up us a laugh there, a good sweat
playing a one on one game. And so I knew
(07:00):
from him guard me as a small folk, what he
would do to those centers who who wasn't uh as quick,
you know, on their feet and stuff. And so from
him being able to guard me the way he was
able to guard me in and vice versa, I just
knew that it was not going to be in the
center that could keep up with him. And so he
practiced a lot on his perimeter game and his his
(07:21):
all around game. Even when you know nobody was watching,
he would always get in there, and he challenged me
and challenge other than some of the guards to even
get out there with him and and work on his
perimeter game. Even the way back then, you know, were
you guys keeping scoring those one on one games? You
know I tried. You know, I did all my best
to win one of those games, but he he would
(07:43):
never let me win. Even if I did win, he
would he wouldn't see when me when the tester that
I won that day. You know, yeah, he would, he would.
It was hard to beat him, even in practice, even
in you know, pick up, even in one on one stuff.
He would just like I said, he was ahead of
his time way back then. You know. Well, fortunately the
(08:05):
games you didn't have to play against him, and he
was he was on your side. So obviously in order
to get the quadruple double, had to pass the ball
really well. And in this game he was getting double team,
triple team on the block, and he did such a
nice job of finding the open man the triple teams. Yeah,
(08:26):
doing notice recognize the triple team and got it out
in a hurry. That's the key. That's what was it
like for someone like you to play with the team
because so much of the defense was focused on him
and made it so much easier for most of us
because like you said, he demanded a double team. You know,
(08:49):
no matter who we played, it was no center in
the league that could guard him one on one, and
so he decommanded the double team almost each game that
we played, and so for us, you know, and that's
why I know when I left there, Robert Ory, which
was he was a lot better jump shooting than I was.
He was able to capitalize off of some of those
double teams a lot more than I did because he
(09:11):
was such a he was a lot better jump shooting
than I was. I was more of a slasher, you know, driver, Uh,
get to the end, get out of transition and get
basket and transition. But for most of our guards, man,
he made the game so easy for us because he
demanded double teams, and he when he passed it out,
you know, we swing the ball a couple of times,
we had wide open shots. So he did make the
(09:31):
game a lot easier for everybody on the team. Early
in his career, it's it seemed like a little bit
of trouble passing out of the double team. How much
did you see how to work on that and developed
that throughout the course of his career, You're right, And
then the beginning the first when I first got that
first couple of years or so, it was a challenge
sometimes for him, But man, I mean after you know,
(09:54):
getting double teams so much. You know, throughout his career
he became just an excellent pass out of the of
a team and so it took him a little while,
but man, once he got it, man, he just I mean,
and that's why they were able to go on to
win championships because of his willingness to pass out of
the double team and get his guys open to make
the game easier for everybody. Hakeem's longtime teammate Clyde Drexler
(10:15):
reflected on a la Juan's growth is a passer developed.
I mean, here's a guy who was, uh, having trouble
passing out the double team is the first couple of
years in the league. And then from that he became
a great passer. He became a great teammate, and his
game just matured. Like all young players, you know, you
have facets of your game that are stronger than others.
But when you become complete, that's when it's fun to watch,
(10:38):
and that's when it's like artistry. It's it's like fun
to watch a guy who's on top of his game,
who knows everything, knows when to do it, where to
do it, and what for, and his teammates love that.
If you you have a guy you played with like that,
it's the thing of beauty coming up. Hakim is racking
up the stats and closing in on history. But there's
(11:00):
more to the story. This wasn't the first time a
La Juan had come very close to a quadruple double.
Robertson over at enbund reblock all right, rise you on,
(11:27):
thanks you down, has eight points. There was a play
early in the second quarter where Hakim blocks a shot,
gets the rebound, gets the ball back on the other end,
it passes to you for the assists. And it seemed
like watching him through his career, he didn't block shots
into the crowd. It wasn't about, you know, the showmanship value.
(11:48):
He would block shots and try to get the ball
on the run. So wid you on the thirteen points,
nine rebounds, five block shots, and three assist and we're
still in the first half. Your team is played so well.
He just never has a bad game one way or
the other. He dodges damn it. I just can't remember
(12:10):
the last time I saw him with a poor game.
We are some games, Michael. You'd rather see him pass
it a little more, maybe create a little more offense
for the rest of his teammates. But other than that,
that's about really the only fault. What did his defense
do in helping to generate your offense and generating your pace?
Oh yeah, well it made it. Like I said, he's
on all of us offensively as well as defensively, because
(12:32):
we knew that if we did get beat, and you know,
if you're up and playing defensive pressure defense, sometimes you're
gonna get beat. But man, it made us. It made
it so much easier for us knowing that we had
a guy like a King that had great time and
it's such a great shot block of that if we
did get beat, you know that he was there to
back us up and and could block shots. And and
(12:52):
like you said, he didn't block them just to get
the crowd, you know, in the friends or anything. He
blocked him to control the ball just are our fast break.
And so most of the time that he did block shots,
he kept it under control. He would even get the
ball himself or after block shot and and outlet the
ball to one of us for for easy basket. On
the other end. The sixth block of the game for
(13:15):
a team, all the shot of the altar port. What
preached up. I mean, he was just an amazing town,
amazing athlete throughout his entire career. You know he did that.
I think from day one, Drexla remembered his college days
with Dream and her team's incredible defensive ability. Defensively, he's
(13:37):
a stalwart. He's there for everyone when he's on the floor.
All the other four players are better defensive players because
he's there, because he gets to everything. His range is incredible.
He gets up so high so quickly. He's gonna block
most shots. And if he doesn't block him, he's gonna
he's gonna change him. He's gonna alter the shot. And
so in college, just like when I became a rocket,
(13:58):
I'd always say, Dream, when you when you block it,
block it up towards the free throw line, because that's
gonna start the fast break. I'll get it and I'm gone.
I said, you don't even have to run down court.
After that, he would say, okay, Dregs, I got you.
Drake's But you know, we had a lot of stuff
like that going. But you know, he was so good defensively,
I mean, one of the best defensive Bill Russell Chamberlain
(14:20):
along that line. Defensively, tam pointly on a team. Look
at how he spotted the Wiggins who uses then to
break job by a team. He looked all over the
court and went over the talk. Well, he was showing
off his whole bag on this night. Quotas al you
on over the sleepy three point. Yes, he's got more
(14:41):
moves of the guard and he shuts up guards. Now
seventy one, seventy two, and seventy three three pointers for
Floyd on the season three of this game. Stop and
that's seven assists. Now for why is you on? Let's
start talking about Let's start talking about some more just
sub announcers on the Rockets TV broadcast realized in the
(15:02):
middle of the third quarter at Kim had sixteen points,
eleven rebounds, seven blocks, seven assists and only needed three
more blocks three more assists for the quadruple double. For
your fans watching, now, keep in mind if you're keeping
store at home, a Keen needs three blocks and pre
assist for a quadruple double. Are you kidding? And he
gets one of those two categories, he gets his triple double. Geez,
(15:24):
that'd be great. Twenty second time out called by the Rocket.
My question though, is when did you guys on the
bench or on the court realized what was happening stats wise, well,
you know what, we saw it every day, So it
wasn't a big surprise for us. Like I said, he
could have even had a I don't know what you
call a five way triple double bit, but for those
(15:45):
of you keeping score at home, that would be a
quintuple double. It's never happened, well not yet. He could
have easily had ten steals as well, you know, because
he was he was one of the league leaders and
steals and so it could have easily been ten steals
on top of all of those other stats, you know.
And so we saw it daily. You know, we saw
(16:05):
that kind of stuff. I mean, you you better protect
that ball. I don't know, I don't care it was
the guard, forward, center, whoever it was, but you had
to protect the ball again against him. And so I'm
surprised he didn't have us that lie like that, with
with Steal's being one of the one of the double
figures that lines. You know, Kim had a quadruple double
a couple of weeks earlier, but after a video review
(16:27):
by the NBA, they took away one of his assists
then Rockets assistant coach Rudy tom Jonovich remembered what Hakim
said to them when they told him that quadruple double
had been taken away. The assistant coach Carol Dawson, who
worked with him in and uh and me, we were
both very very disappointed. And uh we went to a
(16:48):
chem and and told him the situation, and and uh,
he wasn't that upset, you know, and he saw how
we felt about it, because you know, we loved the
sky and what he had done was amazing. And he said,
you know, don't worry, guys. He says, you know, I'll
get another one. And those things just don't happen. When
(17:09):
Hakim found out he had a quadruple double the first time,
he didn't know what a quadruple double was. And they
made this announcement and all the reporters were coming to
me and tapping about this quae truple double was it
was that they have to explain to me. So I
felt honored and I was very happy. Then the second
day the NBA took that away and they said, well,
(17:31):
there was when I when I seized that encounter or something.
So I was kind of disappointed because I didn't know
about it before, you know, somebody told me and I
was very happy. Then the next day they said, well
this wasn't true, you know, So then that that becomes
a goal for me to shoot for. Watching this game,
we saw him do it all and so much of
it was on the defensive side. Black Corporate. Robert put
(17:58):
it up and it's gonna be a point of a
second violation. The ball never touched a round and I
lie Jouan now with eight block shots, eight assists, watch
it again. Such a beautiful play. Gosh, the guy is
just incredible. I just hope he gets each other people blocked.
Do you feel like this was the most or one
(18:19):
of the most impressive performances you saw from Hakim. Defensively, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I would imagine so, just like you said, dominating on
both ends. He was such a great shot blocker. He
was I mean, Jimmy, even if he didn't block the shot,
he would alter it, can pass nine block shot, Janni
(18:43):
had preple double and then he was quick enough on
his feet to even after the altar shot, he was
able to corral the rebound and start off as break
and so uh. Defensively he was a force I mean,
he was, like I said, as fast as most guards
and and forwards. But then his athletics cilan being you know,
he says some foot when we all know he's not
quite seven footer, you know, but he played like he
(19:05):
was them foot or more, you know. So yeah, man,
he's dominant force on the defensive. Me and for sure
his former Rockets teammate Kenny Smith didn't care how tall
a Keem was the best player on the planet. There's
no one better. And the difference with the team is
if he was five eleven, he would have been the
best player on the planet. Didn't have to be six eleven.
(19:27):
His work ethic and the things his skill set that
he had five eleven guys have you know what I mean,
Like small guys all big guys. It didn't matter. You know,
certain guys, Well, he's really good because he's big. You know,
he's really good because he's fast. It's really good because
he's small. No, no matter what size he was, he
would have been the best player on the planet. You
guys are up thirty with about five minutes left to go.
(19:50):
When this one and A team just needed two more
assists for the quadruple double bound him block shots. Let
the love and block shot, but allows you On. Maybe
you could use him in the other category. Two more assists,
and he has a quadruple double. So so he's got
(20:11):
to get the pass in that ball. Rockets have to
make it. There's number eleven, man, I bring it down
and just throw it into him and let it pass
it out every time, Down said everybody, and Star has
had a great quote about a cheam the other night.
He said, he's here, he's there, he's everywhere. Do you
remember what it was like in the arena as the
crowd started to cheer akim On. You know when when
there's a record to be broken like that, you know,
(20:32):
the crowd gets into it and we're all trying to
help out. We we did not want to be the
guy that didn't make the basket when needed, piss the
ball back out to us. Axwell gets the bucket and
allow you On gets his ninth assist of the game,
one more assistant. I like, you want as a quadruple double,
but Milwaukee wants the time out to talk it over.
(20:54):
And I know I can't remember exactly how the crowd was,
but I know I'm just knowing our crowd back in
the day of knowing Houston fans that we had amazing
fans and so I'm sure they would just you know,
just going crazy at the time. Well, he gets that
tent assist Lewis Lloyd be able to rebound if you're
back out to you put it up. Yeah, that we're
(21:16):
not gonna lose grouple double for heem willie you on.
And just like that, at Rim called well, we'll come
into the huh, don't be louing tonight. Aunt Cheney will
call it time out. He wants to get Ali Juan
out there. It is eighteen points sixteen rebounds, can assists
(21:40):
at eleven block shots, only the third quad group will double.
In the history of the nbair, listen to the crowd
in the summer Sanny Novation put the ground and see
a huge smile I'm h Keen's face as he runs
back and you guys, let's louis uh And you can
tell that there's a lot of excitement. And did he
(22:01):
ever say anything about what that quadruple double meant to him?
You know what? He never talked about it hardly, And
like I said, he was so humble. He never really
thought about that. He was just out playing, having a
good time, you know, being his regular dominat himself. You know,
he never really talked about it. He really we we
we really didn't talk about it too much. You know,
we congratulated him, but to go on about it and
(22:23):
you know, to discuss it further than that, we really did.
We moved on to the next game, and so and
that's how he was. He didn't he didn't care about stats,
you know, all that stuff. He just wanted to win.
And so I was just proud to be, you know,
part of that team with him on that A very
excited Rockets legend. Calvin Burphy talked to Akim and his
family after that historic game. Let me see here we
(22:49):
we we have just seen history. I am so abouping
up part of history. We got a eleven block shop
eighteen point sixteen, naige you want, and we have the
reason why he's so good out here tonight. We have
the beauties though, tremendous game. Congratulations, Well thank you. I
think I dedicated his game to my daughter. Oh hes
dedicated to his daughters. So we gotta hear some words
(23:11):
from door to say, hello, tremendous, tremendous, Let me calm down.
I'm sitting next to the maybe the best center to
play the game in the last twenty five years tonight.
What was the reason for all of the of the
category league? Did you? Did you know that you had
a chance for the quad? Uh? Anywhere during the game
period and told me so. I was concentrating and so
(23:33):
they told you about the quad. I mean, how do
you feel like being a part of history now? He's
a big accomplishment for me. I'm happy. Let's let's look
at the after the monitor here that's showing everything that
you get tonight, the assisting, the rebounding, the passing, and
I want the world to know that I am one
of his coaches. Let's not forget this bucked up. I'm
gonna let him go. I know we can keep him
(23:55):
here all night. But he's excited. He wants to be
with his family, and I'm excited for him. Bill, you
take it away, congratulations. When we come back, we hear
about Hakim's pranks or maybe just about his hit single.
(24:20):
You were Hakim's teammate for six years in Houston, and
you've talked about a lot of qualities that he possessed
on the floor. But what was the one thing that
Hakim did that impressed you most well, just since humility.
You know, he was a very humble guy. Um. He
never talked much about himself, you know, even though he
was he was the best and one of the best
(24:40):
athletes in the league, one of the best players in
the league. But just his humility off the court, you know,
he had a great sense of humor. He and I
would get together even on off days, and we clown
around and we do stuff that people didn't see, you know,
outside of the court, and so on the court, he
had this this game face on most of the time.
But man, off the court, he was the biggest prankster.
(25:02):
He was one of the guys that laughed all the time.
We just had so much fun doing other stuff outside
off the court. And so I think people don't don't
realize that enough, that he was such a humble guy
and such a nice guy to be around. What were
some of the best pranks you remember then with Hakim
when you talk about him being a jokester, just the
(25:24):
way he is, just a sense of humor, and you know,
he actually even had a rap video, a rep song
at one time. I don't know if you guys, remember that.
And he was he was unbeatable. He was unbelievable. Dream
dream Dream drink tea, you know. And so I would
teach him about that all the time. And so he
(25:45):
found out the kind of music I like it. I
liked a lot of reggae back in the day. And
so he would always come in and I remember one
partaking time, he had me a cassette tape on my arm,
on my dance uh and my locker, and it was
it was. It was an old reggae, a third world
reggae tape. And so just little things like that, and
just having a great sense of human and now always
(26:07):
uplifting people. Man, he really can do it all. They
talk about lost Valuable Player Award Michael, and I'm sure
Michael Jordan is going to be considered Magic Johnson. Anybody
who wins the championship with that man right there. Look
at those numbers, every bit of it. No, walking didn't
(26:28):
naked each before. Hi wait the gold. You have to
be a great player and a hard work at the conference.
Trap at this point was still just developing his game,
and it was four more years till he would become
the finals m v P. You talked about what you
saw to him throughout the course of playing with him,
(26:48):
But when did when did you first see his potential
to be the best player in the world. Well, you
know what I saw it from day one, to be honest,
which as a as a rookie coming into Houston and
he and raft together and just as athletics. Sel I mean,
he would out run us guards and fowards down the
court in our drills. I mean, he's the first in line.
He be the first guy now on the at the
(27:09):
end of the court, and so I mean he just
had it all. I mean, and so I could tell
very early on he was going to be, you know,
a top guy in the league for many, many years
to come. Well, we appreciate you've given us all the insight,
not only about this game, but about someone who we
have just adored watching and continue to watch the old
highlights Ofkimla Juan and of course of yourself. But before
(27:32):
we let you go, can you tell us about what
you're doing these days with the Retired Players Association and
the Legends HBCU Scholarship program. Well, yeah, I mean it
retired players. So James has a vast amount of wonderful
programs for former players, and I've been involved in a few. Actually,
I've been involved in assistant coaches program. I went on
two separate occasions and then participated in advertires coaches program
(27:56):
in which i've you know, I played also eight years
over in Europe after my NBA days six years in Houston,
the two years and watching, and then I went and
played another eight nine years over in Europe. But when
I finished Europe, I came back and decided that, you know,
I thought about coaching, and sure enough, the NBA Retired
Players Association has some wonderful programs get you back in
(28:18):
and involved in coaching, and so I did that a
couple of times. They also have programs to you know,
if you're interested in in broadcasting. I went and attended
one of their you know, broadcasting programs as well, and so, man,
there's so many different programs. I mean, if you want
to get into franchise and rest of our franchise, and
there's programs for that. I mean, HBCU they have a
(28:40):
great partnership with the HBCUs. Right now, I'm coaching in
the high school, a little small Christian high school and
right outside of Birmingham, and so I've been doing that
for the last couple of years. Bark, that is tremendous
giving back to to the future. I should have called
you coach Johnson then when I when I introduce you
bringing you on here, I spend time playing when I
(29:00):
played it too, Paul, we played down at u A
B I love Birmingham, Yeah, so much love for that place.
So uh, that's amazing. All the great things you're doing
for the community. We really appreciate that, and I know
all the young kids down there I'm sure appreciate that
as well. But we can't thank you enough for your
time and your memories. Well, thank you so much for
having me. This is great. I love talking about the
(29:21):
Keem And like I said, he's my favorite, one of
my all time favorites. And uh and I'm just so
proud to be he had, you know, I had the
chance to play with him alongside him. NBA Flashback is
a production of I Heart Radio and the NBA. For
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