June 5, 2024 • 56 mins
With Michael Jordan retired from the NBA, attention shifts to the other greats: Olajuwon, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, and Barkley — all hungry for a championship. Former Rockets coach Rudy T and seven-time NBA Champion Robert Horry sit down with Hannah to talk about the team’s back-to-back wins, the strangest Game Five ever played, and the surprising origins of The Heart of a Champion.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We interrupt this regularly scheduled podcast to tell you about
one of the strangest days of my career. It all
started around two pm on June seventeenth, nineteen ninety four
ian Us Approach It.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Too one for a Sevel one eighty seven and West
the Lady Vision suspect named Marthel Jane Simpson O J. Simpson.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Four days, every American with a television has been following
the drama unfolding in Los Angeles as Nicole Brown Simpson,
ex wife of NFL legend and celebrity O J. Simpson,
was found brutally stabbed to death outside her condominium in Brentwood.
Nicole's friend, a waiter named Ron Goldman, who was visiting her,
(00:45):
was murdered too.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's maybe driving a white or light colored Ford Bronco
S's that was last seen wearing a yellow golf shirt,
staded blue jeans, and white Rebot tennis shoes.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
From the outset, things didn't great for OJ. He disappeared
to Chicago the night of the murder. The cops found
evidence at his home and in his car, and on
this afternoon, the seventeenth of June, the LAPD confirmed it
was actively searching for OJ. A few hours later, Dave
Gascon from the LAPD confirmed the unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Detectives from the Los Angeles Police Department, after an exhaustive investigation,
which included interviews of dozens of witnesses, a thorough examination
and analysis of the physical evidence both here and in Chicago,
sought and obtained a warrant for the arrest of Oj Simpson,
(01:43):
charging him with the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and
Ronald Wyle Goldman.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
The Juice pitch Man, TV analyst, movie star, all of
course after Act one of his career Heisman Trophy hero MVP,
but now a fugitive on the run, wanted for a
double homicide. At five pm, OJ's friend, an attorney named
(02:11):
Robert Kardashian, held a cress conference to read a letter
written by Simpson.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I think of my life and feel I've done most
of the right things, So why do I end up
like this?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Simpson ended his letter with the phrase I've had a
great life. An hour later, at five point fifty one PM,
OJ called nine to one one.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
We are looking at live pictures of Interstate five in
Los Angeles. We believe that that white vehicle which is
being trailed by a failanx of California Highway Patrol cars
and helicopters belongs to l Collings, who disappeared with OJ
Simpson earlier. Today.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Police traced OJ's location to the five Freeway in Santa Anna.
He's in a white fordco his best friend Al Collings
is driving. California Highway Patrol tracks him in minutes, and
then a news chopper finds him across the country.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
An estimated ninety five million.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
People watched the real life drama unfold on TV.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
Quarter to go, give us first half. We will set
up to NBC News work call.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Thank you Marvin.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
We are looking once again at pictures of el Cowing's cars.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
That makes it work for me.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
June seventeenth came in the middle of a busy stretch
covering the NBA Finals for NBC. It was Game five
Nicks versus Rockets at Madison Square Garden. With a series
tied two games apiece, few things would be big enough
to interrupt our coverage.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
This was one of them.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Halftime the Madison Square Garden leading the Rockets in Game five,
forty eight to thirty seven.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Tom Brokaw happily described.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
The circumstances surrounding the Oj Simpson story is not just tragic,
but now surreal. And it is also somewhat.
Speaker 8 (04:08):
Surreal for us to sit here.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
And do the only thing we can do until we
hear of new developments.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Viewers watching the NBA broadcast saw a split screen. Half
was Game five, the other half was the Bronco Chase.
I was the Western Conference reporter covering the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Robert Rory for the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
As you saw, is starting the night after a scary
incident during Game four, after a flavored film by Anthony Mason.
Remember there were no cell phones at the time, no
way for people to follow the Bronco Chase unless they
were watching television, and the only TVs in the garden
were up by the concession stance. I was sitting baseline
(04:48):
with a tiny television monitor in front of me. The
entire section behind me was filled with fans straining to
watch the events unfold on my little screen. The game
play by play interrupted by live updates from Tom Broke
up and Tom.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
Broke on New York. You're looking at a Ford Bronco
and Oj Simpson is almost back home.
Speaker 8 (05:10):
He's in that car, we're told that he.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Has a gun.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Courtside coaches pat Riley and Rudy tom Janovich were tasked
with keeping their teams focused.
Speaker 7 (05:21):
At every lost.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
But how much were you aware during Game five of
that series at the Garden about the OJ chase, the
fact that NBC had the game and one part of
the screen the OJ chase and the other were you
guys clued in on that?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah? We were, and I was worried that it was
going to play our focus off the game, and we
didn't know what the heck was going.
Speaker 6 (05:52):
On at that time.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Robert Or was a second year power forward for the Rockets,
playing in his first NBA five.
Speaker 9 (06:07):
We didn't find out until halftime because you had to
have the TV on one stand with the VCRs underneath
recording the game so you can do film session, and
so when you go into the locker room, the TV
is still on. So we walk in the locker room,
all we see is like a Broncos going down the
freeway and we're like the hell And then all of
a sudden, someone I don't know who it was, turned
(06:28):
the volume up. It was Colin is talking about oh
Jay in the car and going like We're like, oh,
turn that out, and we're like, let's get focused, and
so he.
Speaker 10 (06:38):
Said we can't.
Speaker 9 (06:39):
You know, we don't have no game film around there
because of that. BS is going to LA and you know,
we just got even though we went out and lost
that game, but we were still like focused on you know,
what was what was at hand. But it was a
weird situation. And I remember after that game, I called
my mom and she was like, no, I didn't see
the game because of that damn o J Chase.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
The outcome of OJ's story is well known. He was
acquitted in what would become the trial of the century,
as divisive as it was surreal. On the basketball side,
things were much simpler. The Knicks would win Game five,
ninety one to eighty four, paving the way for a
dramatic Game six, and my adopted hometown would enter its
(07:35):
sports heyday, finally giving fans what they had craved for decades,
a championship. From the NBA and iHeart podcast This is
NBA DNA with Me Hannah Storm, Episode seven, part of
(07:57):
a Champion, the nineteen ninety three ninety four NBA season
began a lot like it ended, full of drama in
the fall of ninety three, the biggest story in basketball
was the exit of the best player in basketball, Jordan.
Speaker 11 (08:24):
Michael Short Michael, thanks Sherry. I think everyone knows exactly
what the circumstances are right now in terms of my
decision not to play a game of basketball in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Michael Jordan had won three NBA championships in three years.
Speaker 10 (08:44):
The fall have repeated. Let the party begin.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
He was a three time MVP, two time Olympic Gold Medalist,
nine time All Star, and a cultural force without precedent.
He changed the sneaker industry, revolutionized the advertising industry, and
heightened the way athletes endorsed products. He was a mythic figure,
one of one. News of his decision to leave the
(09:12):
game at just thirty years old was shocking.
Speaker 8 (09:15):
Good evening from Chicago. Michael Jordan's retirement means not only
the end of an era here in Chicago, that it
also means the end of one of the most spectacular
careers in sports.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
It had been a harrowing time for Michael. A little
more than a month after the Bulls beat the Phoenix
Suns in the finals to secure their first three peat,
Jordan's father, James Jordan was murdered, a devastating loss for
Michael and his family, and while mj was clear he
might come back and play at some point, for the
(09:46):
first time in nearly a decade, he would not be
on the Bulls roster.
Speaker 10 (09:52):
I've talked to.
Speaker 11 (09:52):
All my confidence, my family, my friends, as Jerry is
just you uh, to the organization. H I even talked
to David Stern as of yesterday and even today, and
I'm very solid with my decision of not to play
the game of basketball.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
With Jordan out of the league, came opportunity other great
players and teams eager to be the main attraction to
the year.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
There's darkly there Scotch Starts among them.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
The franchise that I covered at the start of my career,
the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 12 (10:36):
I'm the right Elijah Wan one on one Donald's and thanks,
Jets fan said coast to Robert are.
Speaker 13 (10:41):
If dogs.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Michael Jordan has retired from the sport of basketball, how
did that resonate in Houston?
Speaker 9 (10:52):
You know, we really we really didn't care because if
you look at our record when Mike was there, it
was like nine and two of his or something like that.
Speaker 10 (11:01):
It was it was something crazy. What we didn't have
no fear.
Speaker 9 (11:05):
And I think the way that Vernon used to guard Mike,
we didn't worry about that, And the way I used
to guard Scottie, we didn't worry about that.
Speaker 10 (11:12):
But they had nobody, no answer for Dream. They go
to a key.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
Here's the fight away, It's got.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Jan a Keem e lajahwan aka a Keem the Dream
was entering his tenth season in the NBA. He had
been the first overall pick over Michael Jordan in the
nineteen eighty four NBA draft. He was virtually unstoppable, but
at the start of the ninety three season, frustrations were
(11:42):
running high.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Fall Away Jis, the Rockets, the league.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
A championship had eluded not just a chem but the
entire city of Houston. The Rockets, the Astros, the Oilers.
Near misses in every sport had fans wondering if it
were ever meant to be. The Rockets had an especially
rough road after losing to the Celtics in the nineteen
(12:09):
eighty six NBA Finals.
Speaker 9 (12:11):
The Boston Celtics will have won their forty first grade
home game.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
They lost their entire backcourt to a drug scandal, and
failed to make it past the second round of the
playoffs for the remainder of the decade. Here's former Rockets
GM Steve Patterson. You lose your backcourt, you go into
this rebuild mode. Where did you start? What was the
(12:35):
key first move that you made?
Speaker 8 (12:39):
Well, I think probably the biggest piece was the trade
for August thorpe Born for.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
The whole I don't.
Speaker 10 (12:48):
I don't believe that.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
Now to Jim Peterson and Rodney McCrae, we got Kenny Smith.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Kenny Smith has to say what he does and he leaves.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
The Jet.
Speaker 8 (13:01):
Build a team that could shoot threes and play inside
out outside, and we were able to build that team
alage we're on and it, you know, ultimately resulted in
a couple of NBA championships.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
When you're building a team at that time and the
Bulls and Michael Jordan are having the kind of success
that they're having, how are you thinking in that regard
that's a franchise that's out there, that's setting a standard
that you need to match or be.
Speaker 8 (13:31):
Yeah, I think you'll see trends where like when we
started the Twin Towers, the other teams in the league
tried to emulate.
Speaker 10 (13:38):
That I do ali Jo on he thanks looking's up.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
Sampson collapses inside of the past.
Speaker 10 (13:45):
The count in East foud and.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
The Twin Towers of Texas now have really started the Rockets.
Speaker 8 (13:49):
And they started playing more inside out.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
You know.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
Now you see everybody shoots threes like crazy. It wasn't
like that back then. So you're looking at who your
competition is and who you have to get by in
your conference first, right, So with us, generally it was
the Lakers, and then who's going to be in the finals.
In that era it was Boston in Chicago. Then you
have to work with where your strents are, right. Obviously
it was more in the back court with Chicago, and
(14:13):
with Us it was more in the front point. You know,
if you look at that era when we played each other,
we won six out eight games against the Bulls during
the regular season. So there are those that say, well,
you only want it because Jordan has gone. It's not true.
We beat them regularly with full rosters.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
The early nineties ushered in a significant coaching change. In
the middle of the ninety one to ninety two season,
the Rockets fired head coached Don Cheney and replaced him
with Rudy tom Janovic, an assistant coach who had played
for the Rockets from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 12 (14:49):
I'm dan of it, put it up out a hook.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Well, first of all, I love Don Chaney, I love Rooker.
And we lost the game where we had a twenty
point lead against Minnesota and Errel Dawson and I had
a real bad feeling about it because it was just
so negative. And the next day we go to they
(15:16):
call us to the office and we're going to fight
for Don. You know, he had done a great job.
He had been Coach of the Year and all that,
and they said it's two way. He's gone. And then,
you know, I thought Errol Dawson would get the job,
and Carol had some health issues, and Steve Patterson says, Rudy,
if you wanted, you got it, and he left us alone.
(15:39):
And I was like, oh my god, I had no
idea this was going to happen. And I walked out
and said, Okay, I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Do you remember the moment when you got the job
permanently after being an interim coach.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yeah. There was a lot of stuff flying around. Tom
Heinsten's name was was big, Mike Tellow's name was big,
and uh, it was here it is. I got a chance.
I've got some years. This isn't going to be for
a month or so, this is this is what you
got to do. And we went to work. I was excited,
(16:14):
but I didn't know for sooner if I could really
be good at it. But here's what happened. Here's what
added to the drama, the whole thing. We spent the
whole summer looking for trades for a team. Because a
team and Kellie Thomas we're not seeing it eye to eye.
I said, well, I want to coach a team. You know,
(16:36):
I've been here, I knew him, and I saw what
he could do. So luckily on in a training camp,
he and a team got together and they ironed it out.
And I was the happiest guy, you know for that.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
With Rudy t on board and a team still there,
the pieces began to fall into place.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
That year.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
With the eleventh pick in the NBA Draft, the Rockets
selected Robert.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
Or Wild class later Class Orange.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
So take me back to that day, and you know
what you thought of the Rockets at the time.
Speaker 9 (17:21):
When I was coming out of college, I really really
wanted to go to the Houston Rockets. I felt like,
looking at all the teams that were coming along, where
would I fit best? Because in college I played center
and everybody like wall, he's the center. No, I'm a
small four who was forced to play center. And I
was like, looking at the Rockets said they got they
got a great point guard, they got a great two guard,
(17:43):
they got a great four or five.
Speaker 10 (17:44):
I'm like, they have no three, that's me. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It's so funny to hear you say that. People were like,
oh is he three or four or five? You know,
and you think of basketball today and it's so positionless,
you know, it's hard to imagine people having the cutter
covers today. They'd be like, he's great, let's let's ring
him in right.
Speaker 9 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, Oh that's what we need because he can
play multiple positions, you know, And back then it was like, oh,
he's a you coming in, you know, to play the
specific position and that's who you were. And it worked
for me because I know, think about it, I'm playing
alongside Vernon Maxwell, Kenny's men, oldest stored dream and I
fit perfect because I'm like, who's the three on this team. Carr, No,
(18:25):
Matt Bullet, Nope, Hey it's me. It was my spot
to take.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
So hello, it was really cool.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I mean, and they had had a disappointing season and
at one point there were you know, there was talk
of that a team wanted to be traded.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
I mean this was.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Before you got there, right, So then they bounced back.
They went fifty five games and that's.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Your rookie year.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
And it was also Rudy Tea's very first year full
season as the head coach.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
What was that like? Take me through that time.
Speaker 8 (18:54):
Well, you know, the.
Speaker 9 (18:55):
Rookie season was you know, my eyes were wide open,
trying to learn as much as power.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
We depended on Dream a lot, and Dream dependent on
himself a lot.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Goes right to a team, good heads up play and
I steal by Strickland.
Speaker 7 (19:09):
My lazy cash. Wow.
Speaker 9 (19:16):
You know he was kind of reluctant to share the basketball.
You think about, he's one of the best players in
the game, rightfully, so he should go out and try
to do as much as possible.
Speaker 10 (19:25):
And it was so so strange.
Speaker 9 (19:26):
It was almost like someone had a conversation with him
and say, hey, you have to depend on your teammates
in order to be successful. And that next year, my
second year in the league, we started out the year
you know, game busters, you know, we know, we tied
a wreck for most wins and start the season.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
In the power ranking of NBA teammates, Robert or is
among the very best. He would go on to win
seven NBA championships with three different teams, the Rockets, the Lakers,
and the Spurs.
Speaker 8 (20:00):
Three we at Hory basically was a seven footer that
could shoot the ball and had probably had the best
entry pass outside of Oscar Robertson of anybody I've ever seen.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
A shot bottom.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
On me just smuttered by.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
Everybody marries the three, not because of it. He could
get the ball in the lodger on, he could get
the ball the thorpe.
Speaker 10 (20:21):
Done on the block.
Speaker 8 (20:22):
He could guard anybody on the other team, whoever was
getting out of control. It's like put Robert On in
this front and down.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
The Rockets continued to fine tune their lineup before the
start of the ninety three ninety four season. They picked
up Mario Ellie, the junk yard Dog from the Trailblazers.
Speaker 11 (20:40):
There's a steel by Ellie Ellie.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
He's gonna get the steel in the.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Slop and drafted tireless rookie Sam Cassell.
Speaker 10 (20:50):
It flows so well, and it started with Vernie.
Speaker 7 (20:52):
Maxwell with a great move out front.
Speaker 9 (20:55):
You know, everybody thinks of Matt Max and his all
his craziness he's done on the court, but his defensive
intensity was what that key to us, you know, him
playing the perimeter defense, and then myself and you know
Sam and they're all funneled to dream. We think, when
you got a shot blocker that allows you to press
up on guys on a perimeter, you know, okay, we
(21:16):
going senior dream. Do you really want to get that
shot blocked? Do you really want to get knocked to
the ground. It's so many things we were able to
do as a unit, and that's why we was like,
you know, I think we will be finished that year
number one defensively at number two. And that was one
of the things that you have to love about Rudy.
We talked about defense every day, We talked about offense
every day. And Rudy was so great at talking and
(21:40):
communicating the players, and not like these coaches now where
they do a lot of yelling or they are afraid
to talk to people. I think Rudy was just that,
you know, because he played the game, he's been at
a high level.
Speaker 10 (21:51):
He just talked to the individual. What makes you feel a
part of the team. I know.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
I played for Phield, I played for Pop And the
one thing I loved about Rudy was Rudy would come
to us as players, say what.
Speaker 10 (22:02):
Do you guys want to run? What are you comfort with?
What are you seeing out there on.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The Rockets finished first in the Midwest, going fifty eight
and twenty four, but the road to the finals was
a tough one. Portland Barkley's Phoenix, Suns, Stockton and Malones.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
You taught jazz.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
The Rockets defeated the Trailblazers easily. The Suns were a
different story.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Age stops to three point range but doesn't take the shot,
gets the pass where they're at the kJ.
Speaker 12 (22:38):
Out of Barkley, Barkley on the drive baseline about a
twelve footer.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yes, indeed, and you face the Suns in the Western
Conference semis. It was a seven game series, but actually
you lost the first couple of games, blowing a twenty
point lead with home court advantage and twice and then
the headline said, Choke City. Yes, in Houston, what is
wrong with you guys in those first couple of games?
(23:02):
And then how did you turn it around to then
become Clutch City.
Speaker 10 (23:07):
You know, you look what's going on in the NBA.
Now you look what happened to Denver.
Speaker 9 (23:11):
Sometimes you get you need to get knocked down and
then you have to get back up. And for us
and the Suns came out, we were winning and then
we got comfortable. It pissed us off just from the
fact that we lost those two games. Everybody was like
our championship to win, because that's you know, that was
the road and we just laid an egg. But we
came together, you know, and that's how Rudy always say
(23:33):
is the heart of a champion. We just came together
and said, yo, man, it's all about us.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
At what point did you develop the phrase that became
so famous, of the heart of a champion? When did
you start saying that?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I start saying that after an opponent sat and it
was in the morning all and they beat us both
games in Houston when we had twenty point victories. That's
(24:09):
when Choke said he started I saw that paper and
then Dard letters you know, and I'm thinking, maybe this
is what I'm going to be remembered for. You know,
balling two games at help, which was very characteristic of
our team. So you know, how to turn that thing
(24:30):
around was one of the biggest balances and what it was.
And started trying to aim the ball. We started playing
conservative and it just snowball and we sold how we
got those twenty point leads, and you know, the guys
were feeling terrible, and I was like, look at this stuff.
(24:51):
These guys can't stop us. They have them, you know,
they have problems dealing with us, you know, and then
Vernon goes crazy. There has some one big game where
he takes over the game. And we went both games
there and get the home court and manage back.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I didn't realize that kJ said that first. That's really interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
After we did that, he says, well, you know, the
Eastern markets have the heart of extent. That's what I said.
That's a great, great uh. I like that.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
The Rockets came back from that two game deficit, beating
the Suns in seven games and then the Utah Jazz
four games to one in the Western Conference Finals.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
The market is Houston record, talent is that in different games.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Rudy Tom Jon Bridge has had a different players.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
That got bigs And I remember covering that series on
the sidelines, right, so I was like around the benches
a lot, and it.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
Just felt like the Rockets psyched them out.
Speaker 9 (25:52):
I think Dream has a lot to do that because
you know when you guard someone and they pull it
out moves like Dream does, and you looking around like,
what the heck just happened, it's demoralized.
Speaker 10 (26:04):
You know.
Speaker 9 (26:04):
You think about when you knocking down three's, you contest
and shot and you got a guy making moves you've
never seen before. He's like, oh, the basketball guys are
taken over. So we just got to take this butt
whipping and pay for next year.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
For a Lajawan and the City of Houston, the ninety
four finals against the Knicks and Patrick Ewing was the
matchup they'd been waiting for US at NBC. The hype
surrounding the matchup was unreal. For pat Riley, it was
(26:48):
a chance to coach a championship team for the fifth time.
For Rudy t a shot at his first NBA title,
and for the Stars, a collegiate rematch.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
Here's Albert Now for Patrick Ewing at a King Elijah
wadd for only the second time of their career and
has come down to one game winner.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
Check all. It was back in nineteen eighty four at
the King Golvin Seattle, Washington and the age A championship
game Ewing against Elijah Want Georgetown.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
I've played a lot of basketball, but that was the
most physical matchup ever. You think about the way pat
Riley had that team constructed, You think about you got Oakley,
You and Charles Smith, Mason, Derek Harper in the starks
that that's that's all.
Speaker 10 (27:36):
Those guys are physical guys.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
They want to beat you up, grind you down, make
you tie mentally and physical and then knockdown shots. And
from us, it was exciting because a part of us like, okay,
dream you gotta get you, gotta get you in back.
He took it, he took a national championship. For me,
that's getting.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Back Pepper's firing between the rockets half of the.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You know, the modern day Nicks kind of remind me
at times of those Knicks back then. I mean they
were super intimidating. Yes, they really were, you know, And
it's really funny because pat Riley and obviously you have,
you know, ties the Lakers franchise, having won a couple
of titles there.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
But he was this kind of you know, slick.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
ARMANI Clad, you know, coach like showtime guy. And then
he had the Knicks and they were just this grinded out,
like physical team, right, so intimidating. How did you guys
match that physicality and intimidation.
Speaker 9 (28:40):
Well, you know, when you got Vernion, Maxwell, Oldest Thought,
and Dream, you kind of you kind of got three
guys right there that you know, can strength wise can
match them, you know, and then mentally strength wise they
can match them. For us, you know, Kenny and I
kind of two weekends on the team kind of just
fed off it.
Speaker 10 (28:58):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 9 (28:59):
And and then you think about Mario really Beer from
New York, he had that attitude anyway, and Sam he
had the attitude Beer from Baltimore.
Speaker 10 (29:06):
So we kind of match that greedy gramness that they had.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
So what was the strategy?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
As you mentioned they were big, strong, aggressive, tough. What
was the strategy to preserve a king?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I don't have my board here, but we definitely had
a strategy. What it was is the Knicks were very
good at double teaming the pick and roll, they jump
out aggressively and make you have to make a pass.
And we didn't have the three point shooting that we
(29:45):
had own Us, only it is not a three point shooter,
and he was a fair mid range seater. What happened
is if we threw the ball to own Us, the
man who was starting a king on the other the
side of the basket automatically had to run to take bonus.
(30:06):
Now we would swing the ball around and throw it
to a key who hadn't been pounded out, so that
as an indirect way to get it to a key.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
This series was tight.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
The Rockets took game one, the Knicks took game two,
The Rockets won Game three, and the Knicks won games
four and five, looking like they might wrap it up
in six.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Still might be surprised to see John Starks side to
win from.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
With five and a half seconds left and the Rockets
up by two, John Starks took an in bounce pass
Star Game six, y'all just broke the Knicks fans. Hearts
(31:03):
a came blocks John Starks buzzer beater. Take us into
that moment.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Well, you know, we talked about Dream being defensive player,
of the year so much and his ability to recover
because John made a good move, but Dream was able
to recover and blocked that shot. And I think John
was on fire that game too. He was the one
that kept in the game, not Patrick, not you know,
not do Charles or any It was John.
Speaker 10 (31:29):
Stark stars controls.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
He was killing us that game, and we were very
fortunate that Dream was able to get a fingertip on
that and block that shot. They take it to Game seven.
I just think about the intensity in that game and
us using the fear of losing because the Rockets had
been there before, you know, they lost to Boston in
the finals, and so it was that fear like, no,
we ain't doing this again.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
Live from the Summit in Houston, Texas, that Houston Rockets
are about to play the biggest game in this city's history.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Game seven was another grueling matchup. At the half, the
Rockets held just a two point lead in the Battle
of the centers, a team put up twenty five points
and ten rebounds. Ewing would finish with seventeen points and
ten rebounds. The Knicks backcourt, John Starks, in particular, had
an abysmal night. He shot just two for eighteen from
(32:23):
the floor and went oh for eleven from beyond the.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
Arm stars great Don starks has been off mash with
the rebound another offensive rebound.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
By the third quarter, the Knicks had fallen behind and
were unable to catch up. Unfortunately for the Knicks. Part
of the big legacy of that game is obviously one
of the most beloved Nicks ever, but John starks had
an absolutely nightmarish shooting night. Were you surprised that pat
Riley led him in and that he kept shooting?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
I was surprised. John Starkson is one of my favorite players.
You know, when I scouted and I looked at guys,
He's the kind of guy I liked what he was
emosed to know. He was streat key, he played and
spot off and played hard. So yeah, I was surprised.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Riley's decision to leave him in the game and allow
him to shoot was the biggest headline for Knicks fans
and one of the most intimidating moments of my career
because after the game, my boss, Dick Eversoll, told me
to go into the Knicks locker room and ask Riley
what he was thinking. Pat Riley, pat We're live on
air if he can come up here.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Please, which I did on live TV.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Coach John Starks had been so instrumental in bringing the
series to the seventh game because he had been so important.
Did you feel like it had to stay with him
even though he wasn't hitting tonight.
Speaker 9 (33:44):
Yes, you know, you go with your guys that got
you here, and John.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Who's the kind of player that's so explosive.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
You know, have you had any kind of an edge
where we.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Had some some airspace, maybe I could have given him
the rest that we were always fighting from behind.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
The Rockets won Game seven on their home court ninety
to eighty four, and.
Speaker 7 (34:05):
The Houston Rocket are the world champions of nineteen ninety four.
As they take the next and the seventh and decisive
game here at the.
Speaker 6 (34:13):
Funal penning h Town, what had eluded them for years,
a championship.
Speaker 9 (34:20):
I remember the first player of that game, Dream gives
it to me and I.
Speaker 10 (34:24):
Duncan Patrick Yung. Crowd gets excited. From that moment on,
we just kind of took off.
Speaker 9 (34:32):
And after winning that championship and watching Dream, you know,
shed a tear. You know, you think about all these
great athletes that fight to get to a championship, and
you think about the ones who finally get it, and
you think about the ones who don't get it, and
it's just a happy moment for me because I grew
(34:53):
up a Dream fan.
Speaker 10 (34:54):
I had the shoes that he wore and everything I did.
I just kind of watched him and follow him. I was.
Speaker 9 (35:02):
So happy for my teammates, not me. I was happy
for Dream oldest and running, because it's a grind to
get there, and when you've been in the league as
long as those guys have, you know, it's such a
feather in your cap anything. My second year, I got
a chip, you know, And so I tell everybody I said,
I didn't even touch the first trophy because I didn't
(35:24):
feel like I earned the right to touch it. Wow,
because I hang't grind enough like those guys. So I say, here,
but that changed next year.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
What was the reaction in Houston. This was the.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
First professional sports championship of any kind for the city
of Houston.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
It was very hard to explain. We enjoy as a
coach the sense of what I believed in work, We're
the best, We're the best there is this year, and
tremendous pride. We got out of town and went the
(36:07):
family went to South Carolina and we're watching TV and
advertisement comes on. You know, get this video of the
Euston Rockets winning their championship, and it was all different
angles and I sat down, I said, that's us.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
In the ninety four to ninety five season, the Rockets
found out just how tough it is to repeat.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
For the Crawler, No Rockets fire now.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Houston started strong with nine straight wins, but a series
of losses to conference rivals signaled the need for a change.
To quote Rudy t from that time, sometimes it seems
like we've been running against the wind. Later that month,
the Rockets announced a trade.
Speaker 9 (37:07):
Slammer Jamma Bride Boklyde truck Flande.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's clutch City. You've won your championship, and about midway
through the following season that you're trying to defend this championship,
you acquire Clyde the Glide, Clyde Drexler over up.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
That's why he's one of the.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Great Houston favorite from five Slama Jama days. What went
behind that acquisition and how did you integrate him into
this team that had already had a lot of success.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Before the season That he said, would you make the
trade to break this team up? I'd say absolutely not
what they did. They deserved to be together and defend
their championship. But things got so bad.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
Time a new career high leads to the upset over
the world champion Houston Rocket.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
You know, some horrible losses in to the Clippers and
heard the news that Clyde was available. Always expected Clyde's
staying one of the best guards ever played the game.
You know, he made a trade for another high profile player,
and how he would master with the Keeam would be
(38:33):
a big adjustment. But a guy who's like your best
friend that you played with in college that says this
can't happen, and to get a Clyde, you got to
give up good players.
Speaker 6 (38:45):
Here's how Robert remembers it.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
They don't run it back with the same team because
in February they make a huge trade and they acquired Clyde,
Drexler and Tracy Murray.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
Otis Thorpe was in that trade.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Obviously with the Trailblazers and Clyde, the Glide and a
team had played together at you of h Rudy t
has said not everybody was happy with the trade.
Speaker 6 (39:08):
At the time, what's your recollection? That was me, you
were not everybody.
Speaker 9 (39:14):
I was not happy with the trade, you know, and
I knew this was a business coming into it, but
oldis Thorpe and I were like close. We would go
to breakfast together before shoot around. We would have like
we lived around the corner from each other. But I
also looked around the room and I'm like, okay, we
just lost our power forward. Who's next in line? Me like,
(39:35):
oh no, And this is before I put on weight.
When I got to the legers, I was like still
like two fifteen at this time.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
You were so scared.
Speaker 10 (39:45):
I was super stillar Yeah.
Speaker 9 (39:47):
So for me, I think it was two parts of that.
I was mad about that I eventual was gonna have
to play power forward. And then then my best friend
on the team outside Sam Sail, was leaving, so it
was it was very disappointing. And then I feel like, okay,
now we got two dynamic two guards and my next
to be trader. I'm gonna move to the four or
I'm gonna move to the bench.
Speaker 10 (40:07):
You know.
Speaker 9 (40:07):
It was a lot of things going through my mind selfishly,
That's why I kind of hated the trade and the
people was like so happy because Clyde from Houston.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
Right, the whole thing.
Speaker 9 (40:19):
Yeah, you think about that part. But me, I was
thinking about on the lines of how this is gonna fit.
Speaker 6 (40:24):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
You guys end up as the sex seed in the
conference and you have to fight your way through the playoffs.
Speaker 6 (40:30):
And I want to get to that in a minute.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
When did it start to gel, because you're also talking
about a February trade. Yes, right, So at what point
do you think that it started working for you post trade?
Speaker 9 (40:44):
It was five games left into the regular season where
it started working. But people forget that dream got heard.
Mario broke his arm and he got taken out of
air by Jalen Rose in Denver.
Speaker 10 (40:57):
He broke his arm. He was out, and so we
didn't come to get as.
Speaker 9 (41:00):
A team after that train until like five games left,
and then it started clicking.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
I go to Trump on the back to marry all
find the back, Chuck Ye slammed off right, Playlian Hello, Chunky.
Speaker 6 (41:12):
Black, Oh, get a license point number.
Speaker 10 (41:14):
I think it starts with twenty two together at the time.
Speaker 7 (41:18):
There it is there.
Speaker 9 (41:19):
It is is because we didn't know how to play
with Clyde and Clyde stot It was so weird. Clyde
start developed these individual things with each player, Like him
and Sam had this back door thing.
Speaker 10 (41:31):
He and Checking had his pick and roll thing. He
and I had this live thing.
Speaker 9 (41:35):
He started like, you know, becoming accustomed to us, and
we started coming a good accustom to him, and then
it started clicking.
Speaker 10 (41:41):
And then it really clicked when.
Speaker 9 (41:42):
We got to playing the Utah Jazz in that first game,
when Clyde and Dream had forty each and we were like, oh, oh,
we might have something here.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
The Rockets finished the regular season forty seven and thirty
five as the sixth seed in the playoffs, they had
an uphill climb and a loaded Western Conference.
Speaker 6 (42:03):
They had to get by the Jazz, the.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Suns, and the Spurs, all of whom had beaten them
in the regular season.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Marley breaks out on the.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
River, He's gonna take it all.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
Brought thunder Dan Dam slam age leader. I mean, you
guys had a.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Brutal run to the finals in terms of who you
had to face. Because you're you get you have to
go through the Jazz. You got stocked in them alone.
You got the Suns with Charles and thunder Dan and
the whole gang there, and then the Spurs you have
David Robinson, Dennis Rodman.
Speaker 6 (42:38):
I mean, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
How different was that run to the championship from the
year before.
Speaker 9 (42:47):
It was so different because you know everybody, you have
guys like Shawn Marion and a couple of guys.
Speaker 10 (42:55):
Talking about how we started small ball.
Speaker 9 (42:57):
Now doubt it started in round two against the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 10 (43:02):
When we were down three one to the Suns.
Speaker 7 (43:05):
Black shirt that he's fast. He that's the play off,
the playoffs.
Speaker 9 (43:15):
And everybody locked one. Who's gonna guard Charles? We can't
get Nobody guard Charles, and everybody look over Rob. I'm like, yo, Rob,
can you guard him? I said, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 7 (43:24):
Wait short.
Speaker 9 (43:29):
We got and I think the first game I guarded Charles,
he went like he was like one for fifteen us,
oh for something.
Speaker 10 (43:35):
It was something ridiculous, right, and as oh, we got
a new team. Rob's gonna start the four.
Speaker 9 (43:41):
And so from that moment on, we just started rolling
because it worked out because you think about it, now,
I'm guarding Charles. I don't have to guard Karl Malone
in the first round. I'm gotting Charles, who is just
as strong, but I'm taller than him, so I can
use yeah, my side guys. And then the next round
(44:01):
we go to Tantonyo Dennis Robin here, oh Fiser, so
I can do whatever I want. I can use my eye.
Let us him the trap roam. And then the next
series Harst Grant. You know, it wasn't any true power
forwards like Carl Malone, so we moved into the small
ball thing and it worked out.
Speaker 13 (44:18):
Sham a great defense and why Joan gets the loose
ball up ahead.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
The brexer Bres were on the drive for good.
Speaker 9 (44:25):
And this is the one thing that people sometimes forget
about the ninety five championship. Of the ninety five season,
they moved a three point line in, and so that
was the year the three point line was in. And
you're thinking about you got Vernie, you got Clyde, you
got Kenny, you got Sam, you got Mario. We were
lighting up from three.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Mary.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
We are pretty good team. I'm a regular game. You
pushed us into a corner. We become phenomenal. We have
the will to survive all our little petty differences we had,
you know, doing a regular deal. When it's time to win,
that game man, they would come together for you.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
As a coach, when did you you talk about players
understanding what it means to be a champion and having
gone through that as a coach, do you remember a
point where you relied on sort of your own confidence
and experience having won a title.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
You never know how they're going to now people are
going to respond. The clouds are going to come. The
storms are going to come. Everybody's got to deal with them.
And I said, you gotta stick together to the clouds
pull away. A lot of times people get upset about
things that aren't even true because of the way things
(45:59):
are covered. There's so much many different articles. There's somebody saying, well,
the two guard battle, this guy's winning that battle, and
all of a sudden, somebody they hit a nerve and
it throws somebody off and they get defensive and they
lose that unity. So we used to talk about that
(46:19):
a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Among the unforgettable moments of that ninety five playoff run
game one of the Western Conference Finals against the Spurs,
and you hit this game winning jumper with six seconds
on the clock to beat the Spurs by one.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Rush Buffalo. The PA over man is Elijah walk I
got to tack down Robert by what's the trumper?
Speaker 6 (46:51):
You know what's always blew my mind?
Speaker 1 (46:53):
And I'm sure people have told you this a million times.
You're so laid it seems so laid back, so calm,
so cool, and then hit this deadly shot, like what
is that dynamic?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Like you know what's happening? Take us inside your mind.
Speaker 9 (47:07):
It all stems from my mom, I think, and it's
gonna sound weird from you know. I love playing games
growing up as a kid, and I used to cry
and get upset when I lost. We could be playing marbles, cards,
you know, basketball, football, baseball. If I lost, I'm like crying.
She was like, she would always say, you know, you
got to figure it out. You got to slow it
down mentally and think about it. Think about what you're doing,
(47:29):
and do it to the best of your ability. And
for me, everything started slowing down even in high school.
Things would slow down for me in college because my
mom was always saying, use your noodle, use your noodle
and think about it, because the mental part of everything
you do in life is so important. And for me,
I think when I slow things down mentally, I'm able
to go through my steps and when you go through
(47:51):
your steps, it goes down to fundamentals. And if you
shoot the ball the correct way, you get your you
know whatever, your routine is to go up and gather.
Speaker 6 (47:59):
And I been able to do that, and the Rockets
followed suit.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
They beat the Jazz in Five's over this Baby's over.
Speaker 6 (48:12):
The Sons in seven, and the Spurs in six. I'll
tell you line you on.
Speaker 10 (48:17):
Has David Robinson just bam.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Boozel getting back to the NBA Finals, where they would
meet the Orlando Magic, led by a young rookie named
Shaquille Onney.
Speaker 6 (48:27):
Got chance, O'Neal rocks a fat Jason. The Magic appeared
to have the edge in Game one.
Speaker 10 (48:37):
Juston looks very rusty.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
This is not the tea that dominated the Western Conference.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Player leading one to ten to one oh seven with
ten seconds left until Robert or fowls Nick Anderson, and
Anderson misses four free throws.
Speaker 7 (48:59):
Users fourth straight for Walt track time.
Speaker 6 (49:03):
Out with five and he goes to the line.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
The Magic is leading by three and he misses his
free throws. You know, Kenny gets a rebound, takes the
game into overtime.
Speaker 6 (49:15):
Kenny Duck lead.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
He fill I'll never forget like sitting there and watching
him miss those free throws. I'm wondering what that was
like being on the other side.
Speaker 10 (49:28):
Well, you gotta understand that.
Speaker 9 (49:31):
I hate to say this, but I'm have to say
it all right, when you missed the first the second
of the first two, I was boxing out hards, but
my horris a little bit stronger than me. And that's
where I come in talk about playing small, being small
for a plin of power. For I kind of got
pushed under the basket and he tipped it out. He
was able to get they were able to get the
offensive rebound, but we file and go back. So I
(49:51):
made sure I did everything in that second the box
that But for me, it was just when you know
when you talk about confidence, I wanted that shot. McKinny
was able to knock it down over Penny and I
was like happy for it. And once he made that shot,
you're going to look at the rest of the game.
We were just talk about the basketball guys and things
(50:12):
are meant to be, and you think, like, oh, it's
meant to be.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Tarkle got back and said, they give up the dragon.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
He's right there, grinving.
Speaker 8 (50:18):
He goes he put off.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
Team.
Speaker 7 (50:23):
But the Houston Rocket touch stun the Orlando Magic and
they win the game one of the NBA Finals.
Speaker 9 (50:30):
He just started playing with a different type of swagger
going into game to game three.
Speaker 10 (50:34):
You know, we were just we were just killing it.
Speaker 6 (50:37):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Game three you also hit the game winner with fourteen
seconds last. Yeah, you know you're hitting another shot, you're
putting the game away. And in game three and and
(50:59):
that was it. Listen, it was you breeze to like it.
It was a sweep. What's your most.
Speaker 6 (51:06):
Enduring memory about winning that second championship?
Speaker 9 (51:08):
I think at one point, you know, when I set
the Finals record for steals in a game in game two,
you know, average twenty and ten in that series, and
all of a sudden, someone comes to me and says,
they're thinking about giving you MVP right.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
For people on that baseline corner you catch it out
the horse and just like that, just been back off
top by one.
Speaker 10 (51:29):
And I was like what.
Speaker 9 (51:31):
I'm like, yeah, because and I was like stop playing.
They said no, they was they thought about it. I said, okay,
as long as I was in that thought process. But
of course it was just dream dream. Dream was just
dynamic and but it was like you you you hit
so many threes in this game, you had you set
a recorded steals, You did so many things, And for me,
I thought that was my coming out party.
Speaker 13 (51:52):
Come up, suck it up.
Speaker 6 (52:07):
What's your enduring memory of that finals?
Speaker 4 (52:11):
How important that first game was? That first game was amazing.
Now I respected that game greatly. They had so much talent.
They just kicked our butt during the regular season, and
now here we are, we go on our first game,
they're picking our butt again, and then you know, we
(52:32):
fight back. We fight back then, but magic happened for us.
Speaker 10 (52:36):
No one has.
Speaker 12 (52:37):
Ever done what this team's done, come from the sixth
seed down in series, and we had non believers all
along the way. I have one thing to say, those
non believers don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
When people look back at that era, and obviously they
see the Bulls three peat, then the two Rockets titles,
then that when Michael Jordan was playing baseball, and then
another Bull's three peak. A lot of teams had the
chance to step in when Michael Jordan was out.
Speaker 6 (53:14):
Of the league. The Rockets were the ones to do it.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
How do you look on those two championships sort of
within the prism of his presence in the NBA.
Speaker 4 (53:26):
We keep it, well, you did it when Michael was
playing baseball, But we had to go to Call Malone
and John Stockton and Gary Sloan. We have to go
through Charles, Markley AJ and all those shooters. I mean,
we have to go through that New York being with
Patrick Ewing and later when Charles joined the team. The
(53:49):
first time we went to Phoenix, he invited the coaches
over the house for a great stake dinner. We had
two he had two surprise guests, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods.
Speaker 6 (54:03):
What can you share? What can you share from that coach?
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Well, what was funny is Charles was such a big
personality on our team. But he's around those guys. He's
number three, you know. But what Michael Jordan said was,
out of all the teams during that era, we respected
(54:27):
you guys the most, he says, because we had nobody
to stop a team. You're a team that week here.
Speaker 10 (54:35):
Coming straight together. You always pick together the whole game
and take him out. Take him.
Speaker 6 (54:41):
Coach.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
As you sort of look back on a Hall of
Fame career, what was the most gratified part for you.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
I'd like to say, you know, sticking, sticking with things.
I've had guys about me all along, even as a coach,
and I understand why I don't have a typical personality,
but I believe and myself I got people that were
good people to help me. No one does it alone.
(55:13):
And to see that you could get the results pulling
together and you don't have to pound it. If it's
somebody you could do it as a gentleman. I'm just
proud of help. I had a lot of expectations as
a player, never knew how it would be as a coach,
but it actually turned out better than I could ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Never underestimate the heart of a champion. Next time on
NBA DNA, Women's Hoops goes prime time.
Speaker 6 (55:51):
After in the history of women's sports, the debut of the.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
WNBA and Houston Gets a Dynasty. NBA DNA with Hannah
Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts, the NBA and
Brainstorm and Productions. The show is written and executive produced
(56:17):
by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver and Alex French.
Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver. Our Senior
producers are Peter Kouder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese. Editing
and sound design by Kurt Garren and Julia Weaver. The
show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean ty Tone,
(56:40):
Steve Weintraup and Jason Weikelt.
We interrupt this regularly scheduled podcast to tell you about
one of the strangest days of my career. It all
started around two pm on June seventeenth, nineteen ninety four
ian Us Approach It.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Too one for a Sevel one eighty seven and West
the Lady Vision suspect named Marthel Jane Simpson O J. Simpson.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Four days, every American with a television has been following
the drama unfolding in Los Angeles as Nicole Brown Simpson,
ex wife of NFL legend and celebrity O J. Simpson,
was found brutally stabbed to death outside her condominium in Brentwood.
Nicole's friend, a waiter named Ron Goldman, who was visiting her,
(00:45):
was murdered too.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's maybe driving a white or light colored Ford Bronco
S's that was last seen wearing a yellow golf shirt,
staded blue jeans, and white Rebot tennis shoes.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
From the outset, things didn't great for OJ. He disappeared
to Chicago the night of the murder. The cops found
evidence at his home and in his car, and on
this afternoon, the seventeenth of June, the LAPD confirmed it
was actively searching for OJ. A few hours later, Dave
Gascon from the LAPD confirmed the unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Detectives from the Los Angeles Police Department, after an exhaustive investigation,
which included interviews of dozens of witnesses, a thorough examination
and analysis of the physical evidence both here and in Chicago,
sought and obtained a warrant for the arrest of Oj Simpson,
(01:43):
charging him with the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and
Ronald Wyle Goldman.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
The Juice pitch Man, TV analyst, movie star, all of
course after Act one of his career Heisman Trophy hero MVP,
but now a fugitive on the run, wanted for a
double homicide. At five pm, OJ's friend, an attorney named
(02:11):
Robert Kardashian, held a cress conference to read a letter
written by Simpson.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I think of my life and feel I've done most
of the right things, So why do I end up
like this?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Simpson ended his letter with the phrase I've had a
great life. An hour later, at five point fifty one PM,
OJ called nine to one one.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
We are looking at live pictures of Interstate five in
Los Angeles. We believe that that white vehicle which is
being trailed by a failanx of California Highway Patrol cars
and helicopters belongs to l Collings, who disappeared with OJ
Simpson earlier. Today.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Police traced OJ's location to the five Freeway in Santa Anna.
He's in a white fordco his best friend Al Collings
is driving. California Highway Patrol tracks him in minutes, and
then a news chopper finds him across the country.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
An estimated ninety five million.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
People watched the real life drama unfold on TV.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
Quarter to go, give us first half. We will set
up to NBC News work call.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Thank you Marvin.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
We are looking once again at pictures of el Cowing's cars.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
That makes it work for me.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
June seventeenth came in the middle of a busy stretch
covering the NBA Finals for NBC. It was Game five
Nicks versus Rockets at Madison Square Garden. With a series
tied two games apiece, few things would be big enough
to interrupt our coverage.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
This was one of them.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Halftime the Madison Square Garden leading the Rockets in Game five,
forty eight to thirty seven.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Tom Brokaw happily described.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
The circumstances surrounding the Oj Simpson story is not just tragic,
but now surreal. And it is also somewhat.
Speaker 8 (04:08):
Surreal for us to sit here.
Speaker 6 (04:11):
And do the only thing we can do until we
hear of new developments.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Viewers watching the NBA broadcast saw a split screen. Half
was Game five, the other half was the Bronco Chase.
I was the Western Conference reporter covering the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Robert Rory for the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
As you saw, is starting the night after a scary
incident during Game four, after a flavored film by Anthony Mason.
Remember there were no cell phones at the time, no
way for people to follow the Bronco Chase unless they
were watching television, and the only TVs in the garden
were up by the concession stance. I was sitting baseline
(04:48):
with a tiny television monitor in front of me. The
entire section behind me was filled with fans straining to
watch the events unfold on my little screen. The game
play by play interrupted by live updates from Tom Broke
up and Tom.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
Broke on New York. You're looking at a Ford Bronco
and Oj Simpson is almost back home.
Speaker 8 (05:10):
He's in that car, we're told that he.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
Has a gun.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Courtside coaches pat Riley and Rudy tom Janovich were tasked
with keeping their teams focused.
Speaker 7 (05:21):
At every lost.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
But how much were you aware during Game five of
that series at the Garden about the OJ chase, the
fact that NBC had the game and one part of
the screen the OJ chase and the other were you
guys clued in on that?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah? We were, and I was worried that it was
going to play our focus off the game, and we
didn't know what the heck was going.
Speaker 6 (05:52):
On at that time.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Robert Or was a second year power forward for the Rockets,
playing in his first NBA five.
Speaker 9 (06:07):
We didn't find out until halftime because you had to
have the TV on one stand with the VCRs underneath
recording the game so you can do film session, and
so when you go into the locker room, the TV
is still on. So we walk in the locker room,
all we see is like a Broncos going down the
freeway and we're like the hell And then all of
a sudden, someone I don't know who it was, turned
(06:28):
the volume up. It was Colin is talking about oh
Jay in the car and going like We're like, oh,
turn that out, and we're like, let's get focused, and
so he.
Speaker 10 (06:38):
Said we can't.
Speaker 9 (06:39):
You know, we don't have no game film around there
because of that. BS is going to LA and you know,
we just got even though we went out and lost
that game, but we were still like focused on you know,
what was what was at hand. But it was a
weird situation. And I remember after that game, I called
my mom and she was like, no, I didn't see
the game because of that damn o J Chase.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
The outcome of OJ's story is well known. He was
acquitted in what would become the trial of the century,
as divisive as it was surreal. On the basketball side,
things were much simpler. The Knicks would win Game five,
ninety one to eighty four, paving the way for a
dramatic Game six, and my adopted hometown would enter its
(07:35):
sports heyday, finally giving fans what they had craved for decades,
a championship. From the NBA and iHeart podcast This is
NBA DNA with Me Hannah Storm, Episode seven, part of
(07:57):
a Champion, the nineteen ninety three ninety four NBA season
began a lot like it ended, full of drama in
the fall of ninety three, the biggest story in basketball
was the exit of the best player in basketball, Jordan.
Speaker 11 (08:24):
Michael Short Michael, thanks Sherry. I think everyone knows exactly
what the circumstances are right now in terms of my
decision not to play a game of basketball in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Michael Jordan had won three NBA championships in three years.
Speaker 10 (08:44):
The fall have repeated. Let the party begin.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
He was a three time MVP, two time Olympic Gold Medalist,
nine time All Star, and a cultural force without precedent.
He changed the sneaker industry, revolutionized the advertising industry, and
heightened the way athletes endorsed products. He was a mythic figure,
one of one. News of his decision to leave the
(09:12):
game at just thirty years old was shocking.
Speaker 8 (09:15):
Good evening from Chicago. Michael Jordan's retirement means not only
the end of an era here in Chicago, that it
also means the end of one of the most spectacular
careers in sports.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
It had been a harrowing time for Michael. A little
more than a month after the Bulls beat the Phoenix
Suns in the finals to secure their first three peat,
Jordan's father, James Jordan was murdered, a devastating loss for
Michael and his family, and while mj was clear he
might come back and play at some point, for the
(09:46):
first time in nearly a decade, he would not be
on the Bulls roster.
Speaker 10 (09:52):
I've talked to.
Speaker 11 (09:52):
All my confidence, my family, my friends, as Jerry is
just you uh, to the organization. H I even talked
to David Stern as of yesterday and even today, and
I'm very solid with my decision of not to play
the game of basketball.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
With Jordan out of the league, came opportunity other great
players and teams eager to be the main attraction to
the year.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
There's darkly there Scotch Starts among them.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
The franchise that I covered at the start of my career,
the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 12 (10:36):
I'm the right Elijah Wan one on one Donald's and thanks,
Jets fan said coast to Robert are.
Speaker 13 (10:41):
If dogs.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Michael Jordan has retired from the sport of basketball, how
did that resonate in Houston?
Speaker 9 (10:52):
You know, we really we really didn't care because if
you look at our record when Mike was there, it
was like nine and two of his or something like that.
Speaker 10 (11:01):
It was it was something crazy. What we didn't have
no fear.
Speaker 9 (11:05):
And I think the way that Vernon used to guard Mike,
we didn't worry about that, And the way I used
to guard Scottie, we didn't worry about that.
Speaker 10 (11:12):
But they had nobody, no answer for Dream. They go
to a key.
Speaker 6 (11:16):
Here's the fight away, It's got.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Jan a Keem e lajahwan aka a Keem the Dream
was entering his tenth season in the NBA. He had
been the first overall pick over Michael Jordan in the
nineteen eighty four NBA draft. He was virtually unstoppable, but
at the start of the ninety three season, frustrations were
(11:42):
running high.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
Fall Away Jis, the Rockets, the league.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
A championship had eluded not just a chem but the
entire city of Houston. The Rockets, the Astros, the Oilers.
Near misses in every sport had fans wondering if it
were ever meant to be. The Rockets had an especially
rough road after losing to the Celtics in the nineteen
(12:09):
eighty six NBA Finals.
Speaker 9 (12:11):
The Boston Celtics will have won their forty first grade
home game.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
They lost their entire backcourt to a drug scandal, and
failed to make it past the second round of the
playoffs for the remainder of the decade. Here's former Rockets
GM Steve Patterson. You lose your backcourt, you go into
this rebuild mode. Where did you start? What was the
(12:35):
key first move that you made?
Speaker 8 (12:39):
Well, I think probably the biggest piece was the trade
for August thorpe Born for.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
The whole I don't.
Speaker 10 (12:48):
I don't believe that.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
Now to Jim Peterson and Rodney McCrae, we got Kenny Smith.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Kenny Smith has to say what he does and he leaves.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
The Jet.
Speaker 8 (13:01):
Build a team that could shoot threes and play inside
out outside, and we were able to build that team
alage we're on and it, you know, ultimately resulted in
a couple of NBA championships.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
When you're building a team at that time and the
Bulls and Michael Jordan are having the kind of success
that they're having, how are you thinking in that regard
that's a franchise that's out there, that's setting a standard
that you need to match or be.
Speaker 8 (13:31):
Yeah, I think you'll see trends where like when we
started the Twin Towers, the other teams in the league
tried to emulate.
Speaker 10 (13:38):
That I do ali Jo on he thanks looking's up.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
Sampson collapses inside of the past.
Speaker 10 (13:45):
The count in East foud and.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
The Twin Towers of Texas now have really started the Rockets.
Speaker 8 (13:49):
And they started playing more inside out.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
You know.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
Now you see everybody shoots threes like crazy. It wasn't
like that back then. So you're looking at who your
competition is and who you have to get by in
your conference first, right, So with us, generally it was
the Lakers, and then who's going to be in the finals.
In that era it was Boston in Chicago. Then you
have to work with where your strents are, right. Obviously
it was more in the back court with Chicago, and
(14:13):
with Us it was more in the front point. You know,
if you look at that era when we played each other,
we won six out eight games against the Bulls during
the regular season. So there are those that say, well,
you only want it because Jordan has gone. It's not true.
We beat them regularly with full rosters.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
The early nineties ushered in a significant coaching change. In
the middle of the ninety one to ninety two season,
the Rockets fired head coached Don Cheney and replaced him
with Rudy tom Janovic, an assistant coach who had played
for the Rockets from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 12 (14:49):
I'm dan of it, put it up out a hook.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Well, first of all, I love Don Chaney, I love Rooker.
And we lost the game where we had a twenty
point lead against Minnesota and Errel Dawson and I had
a real bad feeling about it because it was just
so negative. And the next day we go to they
(15:16):
call us to the office and we're going to fight
for Don. You know, he had done a great job.
He had been Coach of the Year and all that,
and they said it's two way. He's gone. And then,
you know, I thought Errol Dawson would get the job,
and Carol had some health issues, and Steve Patterson says, Rudy,
if you wanted, you got it, and he left us alone.
(15:39):
And I was like, oh my god, I had no
idea this was going to happen. And I walked out
and said, Okay, I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Do you remember the moment when you got the job
permanently after being an interim coach.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yeah. There was a lot of stuff flying around. Tom
Heinsten's name was was big, Mike Tellow's name was big,
and uh, it was here it is. I got a chance.
I've got some years. This isn't going to be for
a month or so, this is this is what you
got to do. And we went to work. I was excited,
(16:14):
but I didn't know for sooner if I could really
be good at it. But here's what happened. Here's what
added to the drama, the whole thing. We spent the
whole summer looking for trades for a team. Because a
team and Kellie Thomas we're not seeing it eye to eye.
I said, well, I want to coach a team. You know,
(16:36):
I've been here, I knew him, and I saw what
he could do. So luckily on in a training camp,
he and a team got together and they ironed it out.
And I was the happiest guy, you know for that.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
With Rudy t on board and a team still there,
the pieces began to fall into place.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
That year.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
With the eleventh pick in the NBA Draft, the Rockets
selected Robert.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
Or Wild class later Class Orange.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
So take me back to that day, and you know
what you thought of the Rockets at the time.
Speaker 9 (17:21):
When I was coming out of college, I really really
wanted to go to the Houston Rockets. I felt like,
looking at all the teams that were coming along, where
would I fit best? Because in college I played center
and everybody like wall, he's the center. No, I'm a
small four who was forced to play center. And I
was like, looking at the Rockets said they got they
got a great point guard, they got a great two guard,
(17:43):
they got a great four or five.
Speaker 10 (17:44):
I'm like, they have no three, that's me. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It's so funny to hear you say that. People were like,
oh is he three or four or five? You know,
and you think of basketball today and it's so positionless,
you know, it's hard to imagine people having the cutter
covers today. They'd be like, he's great, let's let's ring
him in right.
Speaker 9 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, Oh that's what we need because he can
play multiple positions, you know, And back then it was like, oh,
he's a you coming in, you know, to play the
specific position and that's who you were. And it worked
for me because I know, think about it, I'm playing
alongside Vernon Maxwell, Kenny's men, oldest stored dream and I
fit perfect because I'm like, who's the three on this team. Carr, No,
(18:25):
Matt Bullet, Nope, Hey it's me. It was my spot
to take.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
So hello, it was really cool.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I mean, and they had had a disappointing season and
at one point there were you know, there was talk
of that a team wanted to be traded.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
I mean this was.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Before you got there, right, So then they bounced back.
They went fifty five games and that's.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Your rookie year.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
And it was also Rudy Tea's very first year full
season as the head coach.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
What was that like? Take me through that time.
Speaker 8 (18:54):
Well, you know, the.
Speaker 9 (18:55):
Rookie season was you know, my eyes were wide open,
trying to learn as much as power.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
We depended on Dream a lot, and Dream dependent on
himself a lot.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Goes right to a team, good heads up play and
I steal by Strickland.
Speaker 7 (19:09):
My lazy cash. Wow.
Speaker 9 (19:16):
You know he was kind of reluctant to share the basketball.
You think about, he's one of the best players in
the game, rightfully, so he should go out and try
to do as much as possible.
Speaker 10 (19:25):
And it was so so strange.
Speaker 9 (19:26):
It was almost like someone had a conversation with him
and say, hey, you have to depend on your teammates
in order to be successful. And that next year, my
second year in the league, we started out the year
you know, game busters, you know, we know, we tied
a wreck for most wins and start the season.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
In the power ranking of NBA teammates, Robert or is
among the very best. He would go on to win
seven NBA championships with three different teams, the Rockets, the Lakers,
and the Spurs.
Speaker 8 (20:00):
Three we at Hory basically was a seven footer that
could shoot the ball and had probably had the best
entry pass outside of Oscar Robertson of anybody I've ever seen.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
A shot bottom.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
On me just smuttered by.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
Everybody marries the three, not because of it. He could
get the ball in the lodger on, he could get
the ball the thorpe.
Speaker 10 (20:21):
Done on the block.
Speaker 8 (20:22):
He could guard anybody on the other team, whoever was
getting out of control. It's like put Robert On in
this front and down.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
The Rockets continued to fine tune their lineup before the
start of the ninety three ninety four season. They picked
up Mario Ellie, the junk yard Dog from the Trailblazers.
Speaker 11 (20:40):
There's a steel by Ellie Ellie.
Speaker 7 (20:42):
He's gonna get the steel in the.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Slop and drafted tireless rookie Sam Cassell.
Speaker 10 (20:50):
It flows so well, and it started with Vernie.
Speaker 7 (20:52):
Maxwell with a great move out front.
Speaker 9 (20:55):
You know, everybody thinks of Matt Max and his all
his craziness he's done on the court, but his defensive
intensity was what that key to us, you know, him
playing the perimeter defense, and then myself and you know
Sam and they're all funneled to dream. We think, when
you got a shot blocker that allows you to press
up on guys on a perimeter, you know, okay, we
(21:16):
going senior dream. Do you really want to get that
shot blocked? Do you really want to get knocked to
the ground. It's so many things we were able to
do as a unit, and that's why we was like,
you know, I think we will be finished that year
number one defensively at number two. And that was one
of the things that you have to love about Rudy.
We talked about defense every day, We talked about offense
every day. And Rudy was so great at talking and
(21:40):
communicating the players, and not like these coaches now where
they do a lot of yelling or they are afraid
to talk to people. I think Rudy was just that,
you know, because he played the game, he's been at
a high level.
Speaker 10 (21:51):
He just talked to the individual. What makes you feel a
part of the team. I know.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
I played for Phield, I played for Pop And the
one thing I loved about Rudy was Rudy would come
to us as players, say what.
Speaker 10 (22:02):
Do you guys want to run? What are you comfort with?
What are you seeing out there on.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The Rockets finished first in the Midwest, going fifty eight
and twenty four, but the road to the finals was
a tough one. Portland Barkley's Phoenix, Suns, Stockton and Malones.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
You taught jazz.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
The Rockets defeated the Trailblazers easily. The Suns were a
different story.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Age stops to three point range but doesn't take the shot,
gets the pass where they're at the kJ.
Speaker 12 (22:38):
Out of Barkley, Barkley on the drive baseline about a
twelve footer.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yes, indeed, and you face the Suns in the Western
Conference semis. It was a seven game series, but actually
you lost the first couple of games, blowing a twenty
point lead with home court advantage and twice and then
the headline said, Choke City. Yes, in Houston, what is
wrong with you guys in those first couple of games?
(23:02):
And then how did you turn it around to then
become Clutch City.
Speaker 10 (23:07):
You know, you look what's going on in the NBA.
Now you look what happened to Denver.
Speaker 9 (23:11):
Sometimes you get you need to get knocked down and
then you have to get back up. And for us
and the Suns came out, we were winning and then
we got comfortable. It pissed us off just from the
fact that we lost those two games. Everybody was like
our championship to win, because that's you know, that was
the road and we just laid an egg. But we
came together, you know, and that's how Rudy always say
(23:33):
is the heart of a champion. We just came together
and said, yo, man, it's all about us.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
At what point did you develop the phrase that became
so famous, of the heart of a champion? When did
you start saying that?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I start saying that after an opponent sat and it
was in the morning all and they beat us both
games in Houston when we had twenty point victories. That's
(24:09):
when Choke said he started I saw that paper and
then Dard letters you know, and I'm thinking, maybe this
is what I'm going to be remembered for. You know,
balling two games at help, which was very characteristic of
our team. So you know, how to turn that thing
(24:30):
around was one of the biggest balances and what it was.
And started trying to aim the ball. We started playing
conservative and it just snowball and we sold how we
got those twenty point leads, and you know, the guys
were feeling terrible, and I was like, look at this stuff.
(24:51):
These guys can't stop us. They have them, you know,
they have problems dealing with us, you know, and then
Vernon goes crazy. There has some one big game where
he takes over the game. And we went both games
there and get the home court and manage back.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I didn't realize that kJ said that first. That's really interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
After we did that, he says, well, you know, the
Eastern markets have the heart of extent. That's what I said.
That's a great, great uh. I like that.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
The Rockets came back from that two game deficit, beating
the Suns in seven games and then the Utah Jazz
four games to one in the Western Conference Finals.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
The market is Houston record, talent is that in different games.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Rudy Tom Jon Bridge has had a different players.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
That got bigs And I remember covering that series on
the sidelines, right, so I was like around the benches
a lot, and it.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
Just felt like the Rockets psyched them out.
Speaker 9 (25:52):
I think Dream has a lot to do that because
you know when you guard someone and they pull it
out moves like Dream does, and you looking around like,
what the heck just happened, it's demoralized.
Speaker 10 (26:04):
You know.
Speaker 9 (26:04):
You think about when you knocking down three's, you contest
and shot and you got a guy making moves you've
never seen before. He's like, oh, the basketball guys are
taken over. So we just got to take this butt
whipping and pay for next year.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
For a Lajawan and the City of Houston, the ninety
four finals against the Knicks and Patrick Ewing was the
matchup they'd been waiting for US at NBC. The hype
surrounding the matchup was unreal. For pat Riley, it was
(26:48):
a chance to coach a championship team for the fifth time.
For Rudy t a shot at his first NBA title,
and for the Stars, a collegiate rematch.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
Here's Albert Now for Patrick Ewing at a King Elijah
wadd for only the second time of their career and
has come down to one game winner.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
Check all. It was back in nineteen eighty four at
the King Golvin Seattle, Washington and the age A championship
game Ewing against Elijah Want Georgetown.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
I've played a lot of basketball, but that was the
most physical matchup ever. You think about the way pat
Riley had that team constructed, You think about you got Oakley,
You and Charles Smith, Mason, Derek Harper in the starks
that that's that's all.
Speaker 10 (27:36):
Those guys are physical guys.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
They want to beat you up, grind you down, make
you tie mentally and physical and then knockdown shots. And
from us, it was exciting because a part of us like, okay,
dream you gotta get you, gotta get you in back.
He took it, he took a national championship. For me,
that's getting.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Back Pepper's firing between the rockets half of the.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
You know, the modern day Nicks kind of remind me
at times of those Knicks back then. I mean they
were super intimidating. Yes, they really were, you know, And
it's really funny because pat Riley and obviously you have,
you know, ties the Lakers franchise, having won a couple
of titles there.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
But he was this kind of you know, slick.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
ARMANI Clad, you know, coach like showtime guy. And then
he had the Knicks and they were just this grinded out,
like physical team, right, so intimidating. How did you guys
match that physicality and intimidation.
Speaker 9 (28:40):
Well, you know, when you got Vernion, Maxwell, Oldest Thought,
and Dream, you kind of you kind of got three
guys right there that you know, can strength wise can
match them, you know, and then mentally strength wise they
can match them. For us, you know, Kenny and I
kind of two weekends on the team kind of just
fed off it.
Speaker 10 (28:58):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 9 (28:59):
And and then you think about Mario really Beer from
New York, he had that attitude anyway, and Sam he
had the attitude Beer from Baltimore.
Speaker 10 (29:06):
So we kind of match that greedy gramness that they had.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
So what was the strategy?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
As you mentioned they were big, strong, aggressive, tough. What
was the strategy to preserve a king?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I don't have my board here, but we definitely had
a strategy. What it was is the Knicks were very
good at double teaming the pick and roll, they jump
out aggressively and make you have to make a pass.
And we didn't have the three point shooting that we
(29:45):
had own Us, only it is not a three point shooter,
and he was a fair mid range seater. What happened
is if we threw the ball to own Us, the
man who was starting a king on the other the
side of the basket automatically had to run to take bonus.
(30:06):
Now we would swing the ball around and throw it
to a key who hadn't been pounded out, so that
as an indirect way to get it to a key.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
This series was tight.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
The Rockets took game one, the Knicks took game two,
The Rockets won Game three, and the Knicks won games
four and five, looking like they might wrap it up
in six.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Still might be surprised to see John Starks side to
win from.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
With five and a half seconds left and the Rockets
up by two, John Starks took an in bounce pass
Star Game six, y'all just broke the Knicks fans. Hearts
(31:03):
a came blocks John Starks buzzer beater. Take us into
that moment.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Well, you know, we talked about Dream being defensive player,
of the year so much and his ability to recover
because John made a good move, but Dream was able
to recover and blocked that shot. And I think John
was on fire that game too. He was the one
that kept in the game, not Patrick, not you know,
not do Charles or any It was John.
Speaker 10 (31:29):
Stark stars controls.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
He was killing us that game, and we were very
fortunate that Dream was able to get a fingertip on
that and block that shot. They take it to Game seven.
I just think about the intensity in that game and
us using the fear of losing because the Rockets had
been there before, you know, they lost to Boston in
the finals, and so it was that fear like, no,
we ain't doing this again.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
Live from the Summit in Houston, Texas, that Houston Rockets
are about to play the biggest game in this city's history.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Game seven was another grueling matchup. At the half, the
Rockets held just a two point lead in the Battle
of the centers, a team put up twenty five points
and ten rebounds. Ewing would finish with seventeen points and
ten rebounds. The Knicks backcourt, John Starks, in particular, had
an abysmal night. He shot just two for eighteen from
(32:23):
the floor and went oh for eleven from beyond the.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
Arm stars great Don starks has been off mash with
the rebound another offensive rebound.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
By the third quarter, the Knicks had fallen behind and
were unable to catch up. Unfortunately for the Knicks. Part
of the big legacy of that game is obviously one
of the most beloved Nicks ever, but John starks had
an absolutely nightmarish shooting night. Were you surprised that pat
Riley led him in and that he kept shooting?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
I was surprised. John Starkson is one of my favorite players.
You know, when I scouted and I looked at guys,
He's the kind of guy I liked what he was
emosed to know. He was streat key, he played and
spot off and played hard. So yeah, I was surprised.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Riley's decision to leave him in the game and allow
him to shoot was the biggest headline for Knicks fans
and one of the most intimidating moments of my career
because after the game, my boss, Dick Eversoll, told me
to go into the Knicks locker room and ask Riley
what he was thinking. Pat Riley, pat We're live on
air if he can come up here.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Please, which I did on live TV.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Coach John Starks had been so instrumental in bringing the
series to the seventh game because he had been so important.
Did you feel like it had to stay with him
even though he wasn't hitting tonight.
Speaker 9 (33:44):
Yes, you know, you go with your guys that got
you here, and John.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Who's the kind of player that's so explosive.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
You know, have you had any kind of an edge
where we.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Had some some airspace, maybe I could have given him
the rest that we were always fighting from behind.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
The Rockets won Game seven on their home court ninety
to eighty four, and.
Speaker 7 (34:05):
The Houston Rocket are the world champions of nineteen ninety four.
As they take the next and the seventh and decisive
game here at the.
Speaker 6 (34:13):
Funal penning h Town, what had eluded them for years,
a championship.
Speaker 9 (34:20):
I remember the first player of that game, Dream gives
it to me and I.
Speaker 10 (34:24):
Duncan Patrick Yung. Crowd gets excited. From that moment on,
we just kind of took off.
Speaker 9 (34:32):
And after winning that championship and watching Dream, you know,
shed a tear. You know, you think about all these
great athletes that fight to get to a championship, and
you think about the ones who finally get it, and
you think about the ones who don't get it, and
it's just a happy moment for me because I grew
(34:53):
up a Dream fan.
Speaker 10 (34:54):
I had the shoes that he wore and everything I did.
I just kind of watched him and follow him. I was.
Speaker 9 (35:02):
So happy for my teammates, not me. I was happy
for Dream oldest and running, because it's a grind to
get there, and when you've been in the league as
long as those guys have, you know, it's such a
feather in your cap anything. My second year, I got
a chip, you know, And so I tell everybody I said,
I didn't even touch the first trophy because I didn't
(35:24):
feel like I earned the right to touch it. Wow,
because I hang't grind enough like those guys. So I say, here,
but that changed next year.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
What was the reaction in Houston. This was the.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
First professional sports championship of any kind for the city
of Houston.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
It was very hard to explain. We enjoy as a
coach the sense of what I believed in work, We're
the best, We're the best there is this year, and
tremendous pride. We got out of town and went the
(36:07):
family went to South Carolina and we're watching TV and
advertisement comes on. You know, get this video of the
Euston Rockets winning their championship, and it was all different
angles and I sat down, I said, that's us.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
In the ninety four to ninety five season, the Rockets
found out just how tough it is to repeat.
Speaker 6 (36:40):
For the Crawler, No Rockets fire now.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Houston started strong with nine straight wins, but a series
of losses to conference rivals signaled the need for a change.
To quote Rudy t from that time, sometimes it seems
like we've been running against the wind. Later that month,
the Rockets announced a trade.
Speaker 9 (37:07):
Slammer Jamma Bride Boklyde truck Flande.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's clutch City. You've won your championship, and about midway
through the following season that you're trying to defend this championship,
you acquire Clyde the Glide, Clyde Drexler over up.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
That's why he's one of the.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Great Houston favorite from five Slama Jama days. What went
behind that acquisition and how did you integrate him into
this team that had already had a lot of success.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Before the season That he said, would you make the
trade to break this team up? I'd say absolutely not
what they did. They deserved to be together and defend
their championship. But things got so bad.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
Time a new career high leads to the upset over
the world champion Houston Rocket.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
You know, some horrible losses in to the Clippers and
heard the news that Clyde was available. Always expected Clyde's
staying one of the best guards ever played the game.
You know, he made a trade for another high profile player,
and how he would master with the Keeam would be
(38:33):
a big adjustment. But a guy who's like your best
friend that you played with in college that says this
can't happen, and to get a Clyde, you got to
give up good players.
Speaker 6 (38:45):
Here's how Robert remembers it.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
They don't run it back with the same team because
in February they make a huge trade and they acquired Clyde,
Drexler and Tracy Murray.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
Otis Thorpe was in that trade.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Obviously with the Trailblazers and Clyde, the Glide and a
team had played together at you of h Rudy t
has said not everybody was happy with the trade.
Speaker 6 (39:08):
At the time, what's your recollection? That was me, you
were not everybody.
Speaker 9 (39:14):
I was not happy with the trade, you know, and
I knew this was a business coming into it, but
oldis Thorpe and I were like close. We would go
to breakfast together before shoot around. We would have like
we lived around the corner from each other. But I
also looked around the room and I'm like, okay, we
just lost our power forward. Who's next in line? Me like,
(39:35):
oh no, And this is before I put on weight.
When I got to the legers, I was like still
like two fifteen at this time.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
You were so scared.
Speaker 10 (39:45):
I was super stillar Yeah.
Speaker 9 (39:47):
So for me, I think it was two parts of that.
I was mad about that I eventual was gonna have
to play power forward. And then then my best friend
on the team outside Sam Sail, was leaving, so it
was it was very disappointing. And then I feel like, okay,
now we got two dynamic two guards and my next
to be trader. I'm gonna move to the four or
I'm gonna move to the bench.
Speaker 10 (40:07):
You know.
Speaker 9 (40:07):
It was a lot of things going through my mind selfishly,
That's why I kind of hated the trade and the
people was like so happy because Clyde from Houston.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
Right, the whole thing.
Speaker 9 (40:19):
Yeah, you think about that part. But me, I was
thinking about on the lines of how this is gonna fit.
Speaker 6 (40:24):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
You guys end up as the sex seed in the
conference and you have to fight your way through the playoffs.
Speaker 6 (40:30):
And I want to get to that in a minute.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
When did it start to gel, because you're also talking
about a February trade. Yes, right, So at what point
do you think that it started working for you post trade?
Speaker 9 (40:44):
It was five games left into the regular season where
it started working. But people forget that dream got heard.
Mario broke his arm and he got taken out of
air by Jalen Rose in Denver.
Speaker 10 (40:57):
He broke his arm. He was out, and so we
didn't come to get as.
Speaker 9 (41:00):
A team after that train until like five games left,
and then it started clicking.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
I go to Trump on the back to marry all
find the back, Chuck Ye slammed off right, Playlian Hello, Chunky.
Speaker 6 (41:12):
Black, Oh, get a license point number.
Speaker 10 (41:14):
I think it starts with twenty two together at the time.
Speaker 7 (41:18):
There it is there.
Speaker 9 (41:19):
It is is because we didn't know how to play
with Clyde and Clyde stot It was so weird. Clyde
start developed these individual things with each player, Like him
and Sam had this back door thing.
Speaker 10 (41:31):
He and Checking had his pick and roll thing. He
and I had this live thing.
Speaker 9 (41:35):
He started like, you know, becoming accustomed to us, and
we started coming a good accustom to him, and then
it started clicking.
Speaker 10 (41:41):
And then it really clicked when.
Speaker 9 (41:42):
We got to playing the Utah Jazz in that first game,
when Clyde and Dream had forty each and we were like, oh, oh,
we might have something here.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
The Rockets finished the regular season forty seven and thirty
five as the sixth seed in the playoffs, they had
an uphill climb and a loaded Western Conference.
Speaker 6 (42:03):
They had to get by the Jazz, the.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Suns, and the Spurs, all of whom had beaten them
in the regular season.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Marley breaks out on the.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
River, He's gonna take it all.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
Brought thunder Dan Dam slam age leader. I mean, you
guys had a.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Brutal run to the finals in terms of who you
had to face. Because you're you get you have to
go through the Jazz. You got stocked in them alone.
You got the Suns with Charles and thunder Dan and
the whole gang there, and then the Spurs you have
David Robinson, Dennis Rodman.
Speaker 6 (42:38):
I mean, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
How different was that run to the championship from the
year before.
Speaker 9 (42:47):
It was so different because you know everybody, you have
guys like Shawn Marion and a couple of guys.
Speaker 10 (42:55):
Talking about how we started small ball.
Speaker 9 (42:57):
Now doubt it started in round two against the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 10 (43:02):
When we were down three one to the Suns.
Speaker 7 (43:05):
Black shirt that he's fast. He that's the play off,
the playoffs.
Speaker 9 (43:15):
And everybody locked one. Who's gonna guard Charles? We can't
get Nobody guard Charles, and everybody look over Rob. I'm like, yo, Rob,
can you guard him? I said, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 7 (43:24):
Wait short.
Speaker 9 (43:29):
We got and I think the first game I guarded Charles,
he went like he was like one for fifteen us,
oh for something.
Speaker 10 (43:35):
It was something ridiculous, right, and as oh, we got
a new team. Rob's gonna start the four.
Speaker 9 (43:41):
And so from that moment on, we just started rolling
because it worked out because you think about it, now,
I'm guarding Charles. I don't have to guard Karl Malone
in the first round. I'm gotting Charles, who is just
as strong, but I'm taller than him, so I can
use yeah, my side guys. And then the next round
(44:01):
we go to Tantonyo Dennis Robin here, oh Fiser, so
I can do whatever I want. I can use my eye.
Let us him the trap roam. And then the next
series Harst Grant. You know, it wasn't any true power
forwards like Carl Malone, so we moved into the small
ball thing and it worked out.
Speaker 13 (44:18):
Sham a great defense and why Joan gets the loose
ball up ahead.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
The brexer Bres were on the drive for good.
Speaker 9 (44:25):
And this is the one thing that people sometimes forget
about the ninety five championship. Of the ninety five season,
they moved a three point line in, and so that
was the year the three point line was in. And
you're thinking about you got Vernie, you got Clyde, you
got Kenny, you got Sam, you got Mario. We were
lighting up from three.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Mary.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
We are pretty good team. I'm a regular game. You
pushed us into a corner. We become phenomenal. We have
the will to survive all our little petty differences we had,
you know, doing a regular deal. When it's time to win,
that game man, they would come together for you.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
As a coach, when did you you talk about players
understanding what it means to be a champion and having
gone through that as a coach, do you remember a
point where you relied on sort of your own confidence
and experience having won a title.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
You never know how they're going to now people are
going to respond. The clouds are going to come. The
storms are going to come. Everybody's got to deal with them.
And I said, you gotta stick together to the clouds
pull away. A lot of times people get upset about
things that aren't even true because of the way things
(45:59):
are covered. There's so much many different articles. There's somebody saying, well,
the two guard battle, this guy's winning that battle, and
all of a sudden, somebody they hit a nerve and
it throws somebody off and they get defensive and they
lose that unity. So we used to talk about that
(46:19):
a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Among the unforgettable moments of that ninety five playoff run
game one of the Western Conference Finals against the Spurs,
and you hit this game winning jumper with six seconds
on the clock to beat the Spurs by one.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Rush Buffalo. The PA over man is Elijah walk I
got to tack down Robert by what's the trumper?
Speaker 6 (46:51):
You know what's always blew my mind?
Speaker 1 (46:53):
And I'm sure people have told you this a million times.
You're so laid it seems so laid back, so calm,
so cool, and then hit this deadly shot, like what
is that dynamic?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Like you know what's happening? Take us inside your mind.
Speaker 9 (47:07):
It all stems from my mom, I think, and it's
gonna sound weird from you know. I love playing games
growing up as a kid, and I used to cry
and get upset when I lost. We could be playing marbles, cards,
you know, basketball, football, baseball. If I lost, I'm like crying.
She was like, she would always say, you know, you
got to figure it out. You got to slow it
down mentally and think about it. Think about what you're doing,
(47:29):
and do it to the best of your ability. And
for me, everything started slowing down even in high school.
Things would slow down for me in college because my
mom was always saying, use your noodle, use your noodle
and think about it, because the mental part of everything
you do in life is so important. And for me,
I think when I slow things down mentally, I'm able
to go through my steps and when you go through
(47:51):
your steps, it goes down to fundamentals. And if you
shoot the ball the correct way, you get your you
know whatever, your routine is to go up and gather.
Speaker 6 (47:59):
And I been able to do that, and the Rockets
followed suit.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
They beat the Jazz in Five's over this Baby's over.
Speaker 6 (48:12):
The Sons in seven, and the Spurs in six. I'll
tell you line you on.
Speaker 10 (48:17):
Has David Robinson just bam.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Boozel getting back to the NBA Finals, where they would
meet the Orlando Magic, led by a young rookie named
Shaquille Onney.
Speaker 6 (48:27):
Got chance, O'Neal rocks a fat Jason. The Magic appeared
to have the edge in Game one.
Speaker 10 (48:37):
Juston looks very rusty.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
This is not the tea that dominated the Western Conference.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Player leading one to ten to one oh seven with
ten seconds left until Robert or fowls Nick Anderson, and
Anderson misses four free throws.
Speaker 7 (48:59):
Users fourth straight for Walt track time.
Speaker 6 (49:03):
Out with five and he goes to the line.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
The Magic is leading by three and he misses his
free throws. You know, Kenny gets a rebound, takes the
game into overtime.
Speaker 6 (49:15):
Kenny Duck lead.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
He fill I'll never forget like sitting there and watching
him miss those free throws. I'm wondering what that was
like being on the other side.
Speaker 10 (49:28):
Well, you gotta understand that.
Speaker 9 (49:31):
I hate to say this, but I'm have to say
it all right, when you missed the first the second
of the first two, I was boxing out hards, but
my horris a little bit stronger than me. And that's
where I come in talk about playing small, being small
for a plin of power. For I kind of got
pushed under the basket and he tipped it out. He
was able to get they were able to get the
offensive rebound, but we file and go back. So I
(49:51):
made sure I did everything in that second the box
that But for me, it was just when you know
when you talk about confidence, I wanted that shot. McKinny
was able to knock it down over Penny and I
was like happy for it. And once he made that shot,
you're going to look at the rest of the game.
We were just talk about the basketball guys and things
(50:12):
are meant to be, and you think, like, oh, it's
meant to be.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Tarkle got back and said, they give up the dragon.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
He's right there, grinving.
Speaker 8 (50:18):
He goes he put off.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
Team.
Speaker 7 (50:23):
But the Houston Rocket touch stun the Orlando Magic and
they win the game one of the NBA Finals.
Speaker 9 (50:30):
He just started playing with a different type of swagger
going into game to game three.
Speaker 10 (50:34):
You know, we were just we were just killing it.
Speaker 6 (50:37):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Game three you also hit the game winner with fourteen
seconds last. Yeah, you know you're hitting another shot, you're
putting the game away. And in game three and and
(50:59):
that was it. Listen, it was you breeze to like it.
It was a sweep. What's your most.
Speaker 6 (51:06):
Enduring memory about winning that second championship?
Speaker 9 (51:08):
I think at one point, you know, when I set
the Finals record for steals in a game in game two,
you know, average twenty and ten in that series, and
all of a sudden, someone comes to me and says,
they're thinking about giving you MVP right.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
For people on that baseline corner you catch it out
the horse and just like that, just been back off
top by one.
Speaker 10 (51:29):
And I was like what.
Speaker 9 (51:31):
I'm like, yeah, because and I was like stop playing.
They said no, they was they thought about it. I said, okay,
as long as I was in that thought process. But
of course it was just dream dream. Dream was just
dynamic and but it was like you you you hit
so many threes in this game, you had you set
a recorded steals, You did so many things, And for me,
I thought that was my coming out party.
Speaker 13 (51:52):
Come up, suck it up.
Speaker 6 (52:07):
What's your enduring memory of that finals?
Speaker 4 (52:11):
How important that first game was? That first game was amazing.
Now I respected that game greatly. They had so much talent.
They just kicked our butt during the regular season, and
now here we are, we go on our first game,
they're picking our butt again, and then you know, we
(52:32):
fight back. We fight back then, but magic happened for us.
Speaker 10 (52:36):
No one has.
Speaker 12 (52:37):
Ever done what this team's done, come from the sixth
seed down in series, and we had non believers all
along the way. I have one thing to say, those
non believers don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
When people look back at that era, and obviously they
see the Bulls three peat, then the two Rockets titles,
then that when Michael Jordan was playing baseball, and then
another Bull's three peak. A lot of teams had the
chance to step in when Michael Jordan was out.
Speaker 6 (53:14):
Of the league. The Rockets were the ones to do it.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
How do you look on those two championships sort of
within the prism of his presence in the NBA.
Speaker 4 (53:26):
We keep it, well, you did it when Michael was
playing baseball, But we had to go to Call Malone
and John Stockton and Gary Sloan. We have to go
through Charles, Markley AJ and all those shooters. I mean,
we have to go through that New York being with
Patrick Ewing and later when Charles joined the team. The
(53:49):
first time we went to Phoenix, he invited the coaches
over the house for a great stake dinner. We had
two he had two surprise guests, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods.
Speaker 6 (54:03):
What can you share? What can you share from that coach?
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Well, what was funny is Charles was such a big
personality on our team. But he's around those guys. He's
number three, you know. But what Michael Jordan said was,
out of all the teams during that era, we respected
(54:27):
you guys the most, he says, because we had nobody
to stop a team. You're a team that week here.
Speaker 10 (54:35):
Coming straight together. You always pick together the whole game
and take him out. Take him.
Speaker 6 (54:41):
Coach.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
As you sort of look back on a Hall of
Fame career, what was the most gratified part for you.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
I'd like to say, you know, sticking, sticking with things.
I've had guys about me all along, even as a coach,
and I understand why I don't have a typical personality,
but I believe and myself I got people that were
good people to help me. No one does it alone.
(55:13):
And to see that you could get the results pulling
together and you don't have to pound it. If it's
somebody you could do it as a gentleman. I'm just
proud of help. I had a lot of expectations as
a player, never knew how it would be as a coach,
but it actually turned out better than I could ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Never underestimate the heart of a champion. Next time on
NBA DNA, Women's Hoops goes prime time.
Speaker 6 (55:51):
After in the history of women's sports, the debut of the.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
WNBA and Houston Gets a Dynasty. NBA DNA with Hannah
Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts, the NBA and
Brainstorm and Productions. The show is written and executive produced
(56:17):
by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver and Alex French.
Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver. Our Senior
producers are Peter Kouder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese. Editing
and sound design by Kurt Garren and Julia Weaver. The
show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean ty Tone,
(56:40):
Steve Weintraup and Jason Weikelt.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.