August 4, 2016 • 42 mins
Bob Costas is THE voice of the Olympics — the legendary broadcaster has hosted more than a dozen of the games. Today he talks with Katie and Brian about how he prepares to preside over the Olympics, and how a childhood passion for sports turned into a love of sportscasting. He also explains conflicted feelings over Caitlyn Jenner’s 2015 Arthur Ashe award, and weighs in on our current political climate. Plus, we hear some of your favorite Olympics memories.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I love the Olympics. I love them as a kid,
and I still remember some of the huge personalities that
came out of those games. I remember Dick Fosberry in
nine eight he invented this new way of doing the
high jump called the Fosberry flop, where he land on
his back, and I recently read he's almost seventy years old,
(00:23):
which quite frankly kind of freaks me out. But I
remember Peggy Fleming, Olga Corvette, so many great athletes, and
of course, as a little girl, I was most interested
in gymnastics and figure skating. So imagine my delight when
I got to MBC in the early nineties and started
working on the Today Show and I was told that
(00:45):
I got to cover the Olympics in Barcelona. My daughter
was a little baby. She and my husband came over
and stayed for about a week and it was so
much fun. And that was the beginning of my Olympic extents.
I covered eight Olympics in all, and one of the
(01:05):
great things about covering the Games is I got to
see all these incredible cities. Athens, I got to go
to as I mentioned, Barcelona, or as they say, Barcelona,
And I also really loved Sydney because the people in
Australia are so friendly and so nice, and they'd all
gather around the Today Show set and they'd scream azzazazi
(01:26):
Oi Oi Oi. Covering the Olympics was really a positive
experience for me because it was a happy thing to
cover and these athletes had worked so so hard and
this was their moment to shine. These are some of
my Olympic memory, sort of smattering of them through the years.
(01:49):
But we also asked you to tell us your best
Olympic memory and why, and here's what you had to say. Hi,
my name is Michelle Ducepara Ferrell. I'm actually UM, an
Olympic alumni, member of the nineteen eighty four women's gynastics
team and UM. Of course, one of my most indouble
memories of my childhood was watching Nadia scores first perfect ten,
(02:12):
which just celebrated its fortieth anniversary of it happening. Another
hand Dan, look at that? Why did they hand Dan?
My name is Susan Chapman. I live in Christinity, Florida.
Nineteen seventy two, I think seventeen year old OGA Corp.
But did a couple of moves that are still repeated
(02:33):
today that changed the course of the sport forever and
the excitement of Gordon Annis was the announcer I think
was the Chris Jankos did facts, So you're right to
the other bar. Has that been done before by Earl? Never,
not by any human that I know of. I mean
this Oscar from Phoenix, Arizona wanted to share one of
my favorite Olympic memories. We always see the triumphs, but
(02:56):
the heartbreak of Garrick Redman in the nineteen nine two
parcels one of games, who was unable to finish this
and it was joined by his father, definitely stands out
as one of the most emotional, human and touching moments
of the Games. One of the best things about covering
(03:20):
the Olympics for me was having the opportunity to co
host the opening ceremony with Bob Costas. I did that
a few times and we had so much fun. Now
Bob has covered more than a dozen Olympic Games. He
started out as the late night host in and he's
his name has really become synonymous with the Olympics, so
(03:41):
he kind of makes me look like a piker covering
only eight. I think Bob is a living example of
the boy scout motto be prepared. So I wanted to
talk to him about that, but also learn how he
got interested in covering sports. So Bob Costas is with us.
Hey Bob, we're so excited. Hi Katie, let's talk about
(04:01):
your career. How did you get started. Well, when I
was a kid, like many kids of my generation and
every generation, I was fascinated by sports, and as tried
as it sounds, it was a connection between me and
my dad and the other kids that I grew up with.
But maybe unlike most of them, I was also as
interested in the broadcasters as I was in the games
(04:22):
themselves and the athletes. To me, the games weren't the
same without the soundtrack. And I grew up in New
York in the late fifties and in the sixties when
many of the greatest announcers of all time were plying
their trade in New York. And these guys weren't just
competent announcers. And I say guys because for the most part,
(04:43):
although there are more women now, there are originally no
women's sports broadcasters at that time. Uh, those broadcasters didn't
just do a competent job. They did a lyrical job.
In many cases, there was almost a melody to a
good broadcast, and the as of them had a literate
touch without being pretentious. They gave you the notion, the
(05:06):
understanding that they were men of the world, at least
to some extent, that they had interest beyond the game,
and they could weave some of those observations in to
give the broadcast a little more texture than ball one,
strike two, or there's a person down or a touchdown.
And their mastery of that craft was fascinating to me.
(05:27):
And that's when the notion of being a broadcaster first
took hold. And that's what happened to me. I was
going to say you you became a master storyteller and
a sports fanatic, because I think there are very few
people in broadcasting, in my opinion, who are as sort
of seamless, fluent and eloquent as you are in almost
(05:48):
every situation. And I'm assuming that you weren't at Syracuse
even studying communications or really sports and news. I'm sure
you study a lot of other things that were helpful
to you in your career. What were those things that
contributed to your ability to be a critical thinker and
(06:08):
to express yourself so well, well, you know, I've always
been a reader, and I've always been someone who was
interested in pop culture in the biggest sense. Um, I
think there's a part of me that's probably an old soul,
but I was interested in what was going on at present.
But I was also interested in history in the most
(06:31):
classic sense, but also the history of pop culture, and
a lot of that just seeped in and I retained
of the portion of it. And then as I watched
and listened to people on radio and television, I always
admired those who had a certain mastery of language, the
red Barbers of the Vincecullies, who would never miss a
(06:52):
beat on what was happening in the game, but at
the same time would fill in all the little brushstrokes
along with the broad strokes. Know what the weather was
at the ball game, or what the atmosphere was, and
you'd find out some interesting story about a ballplayer's hometown
or something that happened the night before while they were
out to dinner in this city or that, and that
(07:12):
that to me made it a fuller picture. It wasn't
just the primary colors it It had a texture to it. Bob,
could you tell us a little bit more about your
relationship with your parents. I remember reading that sports in
general and baseball in particular, was a way for you
to connect with your dad. Yeah, my father was a
(07:33):
colorful character. He was very smart, he was charismatic, he
was people of an older generational understand this reference. He
was a runyonesque kind of character. But he was also
a compulsive gambler, which led to some exciting and interesting
and numerous circumstances, but also to some heartache because very often,
no joke, the mortgage would be writing, or our ability
(07:56):
to pay it would be writing on whether or very
stressed out by that bos I stretched out, Oh yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, the whole the whole family was stressed out.
And very often my mom, who was the sweetest woman
you could ever hope to meet, and my younger sister
two years younger than me, they would leave and go
to the neighbor's house or go to grandma's house. But
(08:18):
I would stay and watch the games with my dad,
and there was a lot of tension writing. He made
a pretty good living for a guy in the nineteen sixties,
but you know, we lived in a house that he
bought for nineteen thousand dollars on the g I bill,
and it was not unusual at all for him to
have three, four or five thousand dollars worth of action
(08:38):
going on a weekend. So those bets went well, terrific
that those bets went less well, then we couldn't pay
the mortgage. And I remember going with him, and this
is kind of how we bonded. I remember going with
him once to a donut shop in Brooklyn, was around
nineteen sixty six, and he was going to meet the bookie.
(09:00):
So there we are sitting at the counter and a
guy who looks like he was sent in by Central Casting.
He's got a fedora on, he's carrying a pinky ring.
He looks like Nathan Detroit. Nathan Detroited would be charitable.
He looks like a guy who might be mob connected,
but on the other hand made the Detroit might have
been too, But he was. He wasn't as handsome as
(09:21):
Marlon Brando, let's put it that way. But nonetheless I
remember him saying, hey, that your boy. But yeah, he
goes nice boy. He says, you drink milk, And I'm
thinking to myself, I'm fourteen years old, No, you smicked.
I drink tequila. Yes, I drink milk. And the guy
goes give the kid a glass of milk and a doughnut.
(09:42):
And then while all this stuff is unfolding, he slides
a paper bag across the counter to my father and
after a few little pleasantries, were back out in the
car and under a street light in Brooklyn in nineteen
sixty six, my father counts out fourteen thousand dollars in
one hundred dollar bills that he had just collected from
(10:04):
the bookie because he had been on a winning streak. Now,
in that moment, despite all the anxiety and heartache that
came at other times because of his gambling, at that moment,
I'm thinking, my father is one of the coolest guys
in the world. The other dad's on the block, just
mow the lawn on Saturday. This guy, this guy is
living a life of danger and adventure. And in moments
(10:26):
like that, what would happen is he took the money
and he went and bought a Ford Mustang, which, as
you remember, with a really cool car. I remember going
with him and he does the usual things, you know,
he's lifting the hood, he's kicking the tires and I
remember distinctly the salesman said, is it a little out
of your league? And my father reached into his pocket
(10:48):
and he had this giant load of bills. He goes, no,
I'm gonna bleep in buy it cash if I bleep
and decide to bleep and buy it. Um so, And
he didn't say. To be clear, now there was no
senser involved. Did that mess up your attitude toward money?
I mean, I would think that growing up with a
(11:08):
father like that and having that much stress didn't make
you a compulsive saver. Did it affect your attitudes? I'm
not a thrifty guy. Um. I think that if you're
lucky enough to have some money, to use it to
enhance your own life and the lives of others. I'm
not that much for material possessions, but I'm big on experiences.
(11:32):
So if you can you can help someone have an
enjoyable time, or if you can do something with your
family or people you care about that I'm not looking
to die with the highest possible that we're you know,
we're lucky enough to not have to worry about that,
which is quite a contrast to the way I grew up.
What it did affect was by attitudes toward gambling. UM
in the past when I've covered some boxing, which I
(11:53):
haven't done that much, but a lot of the boxing
when I was at HBO was either in Las Vegas
or an Atlantic city. I could walk to it this
know a hundred times and never stopped. I'm just walking
right through and go into my room. UM. And I
never gambled as as an adult, UM, because I saw
what it did to my dad. But at the same time, UM,
(12:14):
it connected me to him. And when I was young,
really young, like nine, ten years old, he would give
me the keys of the car, not to drive it
around the block because I could barely see over the
steering wheel, but because you could get radio reception in
the car better than in the house. And at that
time there's no internet, there's no cable TV, there's no
way to follow his bets on non New York teams
(12:35):
except to hope that through the crackle and static, maybe
you could pick up far away radio broadcast. So when
I was ten years old, I knew where all the
games were and if the atmospheric conditions were just right,
and if I calibrated the dial like a safe cracker
and hit just the right spot. Maybe I could pick
up these out of town broadcasts. And those were my
first reporters jobs, because I'd go back in the house
(12:58):
and I would not only tell him what this score was,
but i'd a bellowship. I'd say, well, clement A single
to right, and Stargell doubled. Clement A scored Star was
at second Skinner single, he scored to nothing, Pirates bottom
of the fourth, and he papped me on the head.
Of course, I'd only do that if I knew his
bet was on the Pirates. If he bet against the
(13:19):
Pirates and this was bad news, I'm going to tell
him that I couldn't get it, but I couldn't find
it because I didn't want to put up with what
his possible reaction would be to the fact that he
was losing a thousand dollars. Bob, you're talking about fighting,
and not that long ago, you and I actually went
to the funeral of Muhammad Ali, and I know he's
somebody you deeply admired. I'm just interested in and sort
(13:44):
of what that experience was like for you, because it
was a real treat for me to see this very
interesting conglomeration of people, including Don King, who really had
you figured for someone else? Altogether? Tell that story because
it was very funny. Don King comes walking in. He's
(14:05):
in his eighties now, he's a slightly diminished version of
Don King, but he's still unmistakably Don King, with the
outrageous hair and the the outfits that he's waving his
American flags and he's greeting everyone. Lennox lewis, former heavyweight
champion of the world, not la most of the Today's Show,
blah blah. And he gets to me and you're standing
right next to me, and he goes, Michael J. Fox,
(14:29):
he wanted his picture with you, and you said, very
very gently, don no, I said Mr King, Mr King,
Mr Kings pok Costice, and he, without missing a beat
in a millisecond, pivots and says Bob cost this greatest
commentator in the world. Don knows no shame. That was
(14:55):
quite an event. And I'm just curious now that some
time has pass, um, what do you remember most about
that day other than being with me and having much together.
Of course that's at the top of the list. Um. Well,
when when you've got a range of people that goes
(15:15):
from former heavyweight champions of the world, and Jim Brown,
who's a much respected figure, and Billy Crystal and President Clinton,
but also includes Chubby Checker, who you know. I've known
Chubby Checker for forty years. Uh, And remember being eight
or nine years old when the Twist was a big hit,
(15:36):
and I guess the Chubby and Mohammed were close. I mean,
the number of people that eventually came into Muhammad Ali's
orbit was was fast and the kind of arc of
his life. He wasn't any one thing. Was he this
angry and too many Americans frightening and polarizing figure and
(15:57):
to other Americans deeply inspiring and ages figured, Yes he was,
and was he ultimately a figure of reconciliation and unity
and brotherhood. Yes he was, which didn't negate what he
was earlier in his life. His life just had an
extraordinary art to it. And when you think of this
guy who was once not only arguably the greatest athlete
(16:20):
in the world, certainly the greatest boxer in the world,
but the most physically beautiful athlete, the most fascinating and
charismatic to watch, the most outspoken, humorous and entertaining, and
then he ends his life with virtually no mobility when
once he was the very definition of athletic grace, and
no ability to verbally express himself when once he was
(16:44):
the most valuable of of athletes. There was something very
poignant about that, and yet, with the help of his wife, Lonnie,
he still managed to be a public figure in a
way that had some dignity to it. The whole art
of his life is unline that of any other athlete.
I remember Bob doing a piece with Michael J. Fox
(17:05):
about Muhammad Ali, and that was very moving to see
them join forces. And I think he got a lot
of courage from Michael J. Fox, because I think there
was a period of time where he was embarrassed to
appear in public and he didn't want people to see.
You know that he had become diminished from this disease.
(17:26):
And I think all the things that he's done for
Parkinson's research and all the inspiration he's given people who
are dealing with the disease. My father died of Parkinson's
and so I became very interested in sort of the science.
I think he sort of died as he lived. I mean,
he was incredibly committed to this cause and I think
(17:48):
very very inspiring to so many people. We're going to
take a quick break and we'll be right back. Thanks
again to our sponsors. Let's get back to the interview.
Let's talk about the Olympics. Bob, You've been the primetime
(18:08):
host for every Olympics on MPC since n you were
the late night host of the Games. Do you ever
get sick of the Olympics? Be honest, no, um no,
I don't get sick of them. No matter who some
days succeeds me. That person, if they're a thinking person
I assume they will be, is not going to agree
(18:30):
with every aspect of it. It's just too vast. There
are parts of it that are going to appeal to you,
arts of it where maybe if you were making the decision,
you might emphasize this rather than that. But in the
big picture, being the host is not only an honor,
it's an important responsibility because so many hundreds of thousands
of people work really hard to produce these pieces and
(18:52):
to put everything in place. You owe it not just
to yourself and to the audience, but to all your colleagues.
Do the best possible job. But are there lines when
I say to myself, you know what this particular thing
isn't my cup of tea, or if I was running it,
I'd do it this way, of course. But of the time,
you know, I'm well aware that no one else has
(19:14):
a better position of broadcasting during those three weeks than
I do. And you do such a great job. And
I think that people probably have no idea of how
much preparation is involved in this, particularly when it comes
to you. I mean, you are just immersed in all
things Olympics. I mean, you know everything about every athlete,
every event. It's ridiculous. I mean, are you just reading
(19:38):
Olympic material from the time you wake up till the
time you go to bed and no offense? But that
sounds kind of boring your poor wife. Well, here's here's
what happens before over Olympics. You're doing preparation, at least
in a general way in the months leading up to it.
For example, with Brazil, I'm aware on an ongoing basis
of all the issues and obstacles that they face and
(20:00):
the controversies. But about a month before the opening ceremony,
you go into a lockdown mode and you take all
of the research that uh, the outstanding research department has
prepared and you start pouring through it and you close
everything else off. But one thing that's really become important
for me over the years is I learned fairly early
(20:22):
on what you don't need to know. You don't have
to know everything about or even the name of every
hurdler from Bolivia or platform diver from Peru. That's what
the people at the venues are for. And if those
athletes become a story, the research department is so good,
and now with everything digitized, you can get it so quickly.
(20:44):
But as long as you're someone who's able to take
a briefing quickly, and you know this from your days
on the Today Show or as the Network news anchor,
some stuff can be scripted and planned, and other stuff
just comes up and you have to take it, take
a quick look at it, and use your experience to
make some sense of it and get it out there quickly.
Over time, you develop those muscles and you're able to
(21:06):
do it. You have to be a quick study and
incredibly fast on your feet. You know. I want to
talk about Rio because having covered so many Olympics, and
many of them have been fraught, I guess at the
onset and usually these cities rise to the occasion. But gosh,
I feel like Rio is under more pressure than any
other city that that I've watched through, you know, the
(21:31):
Olympics that I've been aware of or at least involved in.
Rio faces such an array of issues. The pollution, the
political term, well, the financial crisis, the zeke of virus,
the venues and the infrastructure, and also security. When you
say to yourself, look, if they don't have enough money
(21:52):
to pay the police and security forces when they've got
to ask the federal government for nearly a billion dollars
in additional cord, can we be sure that everything will
be as fully buttoned up as it should be. And
in addition to the kind of terrorism that people worry
about at any big international event, um, Rio has a
problem with just general crime, street crime. You've got to
(22:15):
be very careful if you visit what areas you venture
into and what you stay away from. Are you worried
about the athletes? Are are you concerned a about the
security of the people covering the games? And are you
worried about the athletes as well? Given gosh, where we
seem to be in such a volatile, uh scary time
(22:36):
all around the world, not just in the United States.
What they have told the athletes is, if you stay
in Olympic housing, then we'll have it secured. If you
choose to stay elsewhere, then you're on your own. You've
got to get your own security. And I don't want
to be Debbie Downer here, but it's worth noting that
(23:00):
the athletes in sports where the Olympics are not the pinnacle.
You know, it's great to play on the Olympic basketball team,
but Steph Currier, Lebron James would rather win the NBA
titled than win a gold medal, or Serena Will's rather
win Wimbledon than win an Olympic gold medal. So a
great number of these basketball players, golfers, tennis players have
(23:21):
already announced their intention to skip these Olympics, and most
of them have very rationally said, look, even if the
risk is low, it's not a risk that I'm willing
to take now. If you're a pole vaulter with a
chance to win a gold medal, and you've trained for
this for four years and this is your one big
turn on the international stage, then that risk is more
(23:41):
than worth it. But those who have other options, I'm
not surprised that they've decided this to take a pass
this time. No real masters for pole vaulters, is there No.
I mean, with the Olympics, it's at best once every
four years, and maybe for some of these competitors it's
once in a lifetime. And most Americans don't pay that
much attention to Olympic sports outside the context of the Olympics.
(24:03):
So these competitors stepped out of the shadows and into
the biggest spotlight for just that a couple of weeks,
or in the case of some events, just a few
minutes or a few seconds. I think probably the biggest
story coming out of the Olympics in the United States
is the concern about Zica. And you know, the Brazilian
(24:23):
health minister says that the odds of getting it are
very low because it's happening during the South American winter. Uh.
And yet you have a number of athletes who are
deciding to skip it, as you know better than we do,
largely because of this disease um you have. You have
a number of men who are participating who say that
they're going to preserve their sperm and advance of going.
(24:46):
How are you doing that? I think I'm at a
stage of life where it's not a factor. How how
big of a crisis do you think Zekea represents. Well,
I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on TV.
It does seem credible to me that it being winter
near the equator, UH, that the risk would be diminished,
(25:10):
the mosquito population is diminished, and that if you take
uh proper precautions, the chance of it is relatively low.
But no one can guarantee that there's no chance. And
you can't blame someone from not wanting to roll the
dice if they're a female athlete. Most of these athletes
are obviously people in the prime of their lives. They're
(25:31):
sexually active, many of them are apt to become pregnant
or considering and starting a family whatever may be. Or
as male athletes, that could affect their their partners or
potential partners. So for them to be concerned about it
makes makes perfect sense to me. When you look at
sort of the highlights and low lights of your Olympic experiences,
(25:54):
and I'm sure there's so many, and you must write
a book about this at some point, but up were
some of the moments that are seared in your memory
that you know you still think about today. Well, we
talked about Muhammed Ali a moment ago, when he lit
the cauldron as the final torch bearer in nineties in Atlanta.
(26:15):
That was such a sunny moment because virtually no one knew,
including me and dick Enberg on the opening ceremony. We
might have guessed it, but no one told us that
it was going to be Ali. And they had practiced
at one time at three o'clock in the morning, I'd
say fewer than twenty people actually knew that it would
be Mohammed Ali. In the way they staged it, he
stepped out of the shadows and into that spotlight when
(26:36):
Janet Evans, who had the torch before him, handed it
to him, and there was a moment or two of
silence while it kind of sank in to the crowd watching,
and then there were almost audible gasps followed by this
deafening applause. It was surprising, it was touching, it was
exciting because of his presence, but it was also even
(26:56):
though he lived another twenty years after that, I think
that was the moment of reconciliation for him on the
world stage. There were so many aspects to that that
when I'm asked, what's my most memorable Olympic moment? Even
though I could rattle off another twenty. That's the ones
at the top. Were there any other athletes that just
(27:17):
inspired or moved to you? Yeah, And sometimes they're big
winners and sometimes their relative footnotes. When Kathy Freeman lit
the torch and then also won her event at the
Sydney Olympics because of her Aboriginal background, there was a
story there that was meaningful and inspiring to Australians and
(27:42):
which could be told and understood by the rest of
the world. And her performance she won resoundingly emphatically. But
then you have other moments, and you and I have
covered them, but we could list dozens of them. Will
just give you one. In ninety two in Barcelona, there
was a marathon her from Mongolia named Pambo Tool, and
(28:03):
the Ambo Tool had zero chance to win a medal um.
He came there with the idea of just representing his
country and finishing on top of it all, he was
legally blind. The marathon finishes in the main Olympic Stadium,
which and it's always the last day of the Olympics,
and the closing ceremony takes place in the Olympic Stadium too.
(28:26):
The Ambo tool came staggering towards the Olympic Stadium not
minutes but hours after what officials thought was the very
last competitor had finished. It took him like seven hours
to run the marathon, but he managed to finish. And
when he got to the entrance of the Olympic Stadium,
security at first stopped him, like who is this guy
(28:48):
and what is he doing? And after it was made
clear what was happening, they cleared a path for him
to get to where the finish line would have been.
And right in the middle of a closing ceremony with
all the hooplah and pageantry, this guy came staggering across
the finish line and he had accomplished what he came
there to do. And when asked about it afterwards, he said,
(29:11):
my country didn't send me here to win a medal
because I had no chance. The only thing I could
do was finish. And if you're not touched by that,
you've got to check your pulse. You know, there are
so many great stories, and one Olympics in particular was
marred for you personally because of an eye infection. You
(29:32):
got how how how how bummed were you when you
had to sit out in two thousand fourteen because you
was it officially pink eye? What happened to you? Exactly
how pink I is to viral conjunctive itis, what the
common cold is to a really bad case of influenza. Um,
(29:53):
So I had viral conjunctive itis, they hoped. I woke
up the first day that we're going to be on
the air, felt perfectly fine. When I went to bed,
woke up, looked in the mirror, my left eye was
red and virtually closed, and I'm thinking, what the heck
is this? So I go in and the NBC doctors
take a look, and at first they thought it was
some kind of bacterial infection. They give me some antibiotics,
(30:14):
They tell me it'll be gone in like three days.
But by three days it had jumped from my leftot
in my right, and now both eyes were all red
and inflamed. And they knew at that point that it's
a viral. So with something that's viral, all you can
do is make the person feel more comfortable, but it
just has to run its course and the problem. Here's
(30:35):
how I felt if it had been my first or
second Olympics. I think I would have been crushed, but
because I've done so many Olympics, I really wasn't crushed personally.
But I felt a professional responsibility to all the people
who worked so hard to put on an Olympics, and
you're the guy carrying the ball for them. So I
tried to be as professional as I could about it,
(30:56):
and anyone who recalls it fairly knows that the only
references I'm me to it were very brief, kind of
self deprecating, hopefully humorous remarks. I just was afraid that
I was creeping out most of America, and in fact,
maybe I was, but here it became part of the story,
especially in a social media age, and no matter how
professionally tried to be, and no matter how self deprecating
(31:19):
he tried to be about it, people are going to
do with it what they will. And then after five
or six days, it got to the point where my
eyes were so light sensitive. That's when I had to
step aside because I couldn't be in the studio. So
for six days I'm in a dark and hotel room
with various things over my eyes, washed claus and dipped
in one solution or another and taking whatever they told
(31:40):
me to take, and by I don't know, the six
or seventh day, I was able to come back and
kind of stumble through what remained of the Olympics. But
for about two months after the games, my eyesight was compromised.
My prescription kept changing. I couldn't read the newspaper. It
was really hard to call baseball games because I couldn't
see out of the distance. And it was probably around
June or July before it finally stabilized. Well, we're glad
(32:05):
that it did, and that that you're all better. And
you mentioned social media, and I guess they had a
field day with this, which is sort of shitty when
you think about how miserable it must have been for you.
But social media can be even more than sort of shitty,
and you experience that with your remarks about Caitlyn Jenner
(32:25):
when she got the Arthur Ash Award. Yeah, the backlash
wasn't too terrible. It came from certain quarters and then
in other places, like it was like, hey, he's saying
something that's just common sense. But what happened with Caitlyn
Jenner was this. Dan Patrick has a radio show which
I go on from time to time, and he just says,
(32:46):
what do you make of Caitlyn Jenner winning the Arthur
Ash Award at the SPS? Now, I don't think the
SPS are really worth that much attention. They're clearly made
for TV event and a promotional vehicle for ESPN, and
they're welcome to it. But the only two things that
redeem it are the Jim Belvano Award and the Arthur
(33:08):
Ash Award, because they stand for something. And my point was,
and I took pains to make this clear, I support
Caitlin Jenner in her decision. I certainly hope we're moving
toward a more tolerant and compassionate society, for people are
free to choose their own path in life, and we
treat them with respect and dignity, and so I'm all
(33:30):
for it, and I recognize that it takes a measure
of courage to do it. But at the same time,
the Arthur Ash Award is supposed to represent people who
have used their position as athletes two get beyond just
those achievements, and up until that very moment, Bruce or
(33:51):
Caitlyn Jenner had never done that. So what I said
was what they should have done, would have been A
brilliant stroke would be to have Caitlyn Jenner. Because of
her visibility, and it is television and you're trying to
bring eyeballs to set, why don't you have Caitlyn Jenner
present the Arthur Ash Award to Renee Richards, who had
been Richard Raskin underwent gender reassignment surgery I think in
(34:16):
the nineteen seventies while still an active tennis player, then
played as Renee Richards against whoever her contemporary where she's
still alive and in her eighties. You could have had
Caitlyn Jenner make the speech that she made, which was lovely,
and at the same time present the award to someone
who actually represented what I took the Arthur Ash Award
(34:38):
to represent. But some people just think in a binary way,
and so to some people, how you feel about Caitlyn
Jenner receiving the Arthur Ash Award is a litmus test
of how you feel about the rights and dignity of
transgender people. Well, if that's how some people think, um,
I guess there's nothing to do about it. Do you
think if it were this year and Caitlyn Jenner was
(35:00):
up for the award, you would feel more comfortable given
that she has given voice to many transgender people and
sort of I think increased understanding of the whole issue
to a whole generation of people. Yeah, somewhat. I think
the very first thing that Caitlyn Jenner did to take
(35:23):
a step in that direction actually was after she received
the award, when she made the speech. There's no hostility
in my in my take, he asked me the question.
I gave him what I thought was a well considered
answer under the circumstances. But there's still if you if
you want to parse it, there's a difference between the
experiences of Caitlyn Jenner, who had a five million dollar
(35:45):
reality series waiting for her, and a well thought out
kind of rollout of this cover of Vanity Fair up
from the mistake in the book. Reality show interview with
Diane Sawyer. I'm not criticizing any us, but this is
hardly typical of the experiences and the obstacles that a
(36:07):
transgender person is likely to encounter in going forward. Bob,
Before we wrap up, I have to ask you about
the other great competition dominating the media at this point,
which is, of course, the presidential campaign. Do you know
Donald Trump and what do you make of his role
in this extravaganza. I have known Donald Trump, not well,
(36:32):
but that acquainted with him since the nineteen eighties. He's
always had um some relationships sports. He owned a team
in UH the old USFL, which posed the challenge briefly
to the NFL. So I've encountered him at charity events
and whatnot, and I must say that he was always
extremely friendly and nice to me. We never talked politics,
(36:54):
We talked sports and television. I have not caused paths
with him, probably in the last three years or so.
What do you think about his candidacy and sort of
what it has symbolized I think, or what it has
told us about the state of our country. Well, I
think it comes about because of a confluence of events. Um,
(37:18):
there's some similarity with Bernie Sanders candidacy in that UH
at the root of it, the gut reaction is discussed
or impatience with politics and government and business as usual,
and that's understandable. Depend there's also the aspect of a
celebrity culture and left and right wing echo chambers on
(37:41):
cable television. We live in a post factual universe where anything,
even if it doesn't check out. That supports your gut feeling.
You'll find a place that will echo that, and it
will reverberate. And it doesn't just apply to Donald Trump.
It's hey, if I agree with it, if I like
him or her, I don't want to hear anything that
(38:01):
differs from that, and anything that supports my viewpoint. It's true.
I don't have to check it out. It's it's amazing.
Daniel Patrick moynihan, UM Senator, intellectual long gone but famously
once said, you're entitled to your own opinion. You're not
entitled to your own facts, but these days you are.
We live in a post factual world where at hominum
(38:24):
attacks and baseless assertions, no matter where they come from,
pass for insight and pass forward legitimate arguments. And I
don't think on balance that that can be good for
the country. I'm curious, as somebody who consumes media and
of course understands media as much as you do. What's
your take? Was he given too much airtime while the
(38:47):
other candidates weren't because it was basically good for the
bottom line. To some extent, that has to be true.
He moves the needle news or what passes for news
is business, just the same as any other television program
is UM And except for a few people trying to
hold the line and uphold standards, UM, it's not going
(39:10):
in the direction that that you and I grew up
approving of an aspiring to Well, I'm that happy note
going to hell in a handbasket. Good night everybody. Bob.
It's always great to talk to you. It's always so
wonderful to hear your insights, and you're quite a rock
(39:30):
on tour. By the way, Thank you. Let's let's see
how much trouble you and I can get in over
this one. Yeah, anyway, Bob, I hope I get to
see you soon. Thanks so much for taking the time
to talk to us today. Thanks Katie, Thanks Brian. So
as you can see, Bob can talk about everything and anything,
not just about sports, and that's why I love having
(39:53):
conversations with him, because I'm always dazzled by his eloquence.
He's going to think that's really weird for me to say,
but it's true, Bob. I'm sorry. I can't wait to
hear what he says about Rio because it's been plagued
by some significant problems. You have to feel sorry for
the city in a way, because they're dealing with Zeka,
the economy, crime, and apparently the Olympic village itself is
(40:16):
having some problems. So I hope everything works itself out
by the time they say let the Games begin. By
the way, I just made an appearance on this really
fun parenting show called The Longest Shortest Time. I love
(40:40):
the title because I feel like it is the longest
shortest time having daughters who are twenty five and twenty
and having no idea how that happened. But you can
go listen for a little peek into my personal life.
I talk about what my mom did when she found
me making out in a guy's basement when I was
sixteen years old, mortifying, and how I'm dealing with my
(41:02):
impending sixtieth birthday. So you can find The Longest Shortest
Time on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.
We want to thank Gretta Cone and the Right Reverend
John Delore for producing the show. Thanks to Mark Phillips
for our terrific theme music. David Herman mixed this episode,
(41:26):
and thank you for listening. Please subscribe, rate, and review
the podcast. That's what helps other listeners find the show
and we'll talk to you next time. When my baby
smiles at me, I go to Rio de Janeiro. Okay, Grett,
(41:46):
it's gonna find a way to use that. By the way,
I do have a good voice for radio. I think
you do have a good voice face for radio too.
I have a voice for print. No, that's not true.
That's funny. M
I love the Olympics. I love them as a kid,
and I still remember some of the huge personalities that
came out of those games. I remember Dick Fosberry in
nine eight he invented this new way of doing the
high jump called the Fosberry flop, where he land on
his back, and I recently read he's almost seventy years old,
(00:23):
which quite frankly kind of freaks me out. But I
remember Peggy Fleming, Olga Corvette, so many great athletes, and
of course, as a little girl, I was most interested
in gymnastics and figure skating. So imagine my delight when
I got to MBC in the early nineties and started
working on the Today Show and I was told that
(00:45):
I got to cover the Olympics in Barcelona. My daughter
was a little baby. She and my husband came over
and stayed for about a week and it was so
much fun. And that was the beginning of my Olympic extents.
I covered eight Olympics in all, and one of the
(01:05):
great things about covering the Games is I got to
see all these incredible cities. Athens, I got to go
to as I mentioned, Barcelona, or as they say, Barcelona,
And I also really loved Sydney because the people in
Australia are so friendly and so nice, and they'd all
gather around the Today Show set and they'd scream azzazazi
(01:26):
Oi Oi Oi. Covering the Olympics was really a positive
experience for me because it was a happy thing to
cover and these athletes had worked so so hard and
this was their moment to shine. These are some of
my Olympic memory, sort of smattering of them through the years.
(01:49):
But we also asked you to tell us your best
Olympic memory and why, and here's what you had to say. Hi,
my name is Michelle Ducepara Ferrell. I'm actually UM, an
Olympic alumni, member of the nineteen eighty four women's gynastics
team and UM. Of course, one of my most indouble
memories of my childhood was watching Nadia scores first perfect ten,
(02:12):
which just celebrated its fortieth anniversary of it happening. Another
hand Dan, look at that? Why did they hand Dan?
My name is Susan Chapman. I live in Christinity, Florida.
Nineteen seventy two, I think seventeen year old OGA Corp.
But did a couple of moves that are still repeated
(02:33):
today that changed the course of the sport forever and
the excitement of Gordon Annis was the announcer I think
was the Chris Jankos did facts, So you're right to
the other bar. Has that been done before by Earl? Never,
not by any human that I know of. I mean
this Oscar from Phoenix, Arizona wanted to share one of
my favorite Olympic memories. We always see the triumphs, but
(02:56):
the heartbreak of Garrick Redman in the nineteen nine two
parcels one of games, who was unable to finish this
and it was joined by his father, definitely stands out
as one of the most emotional, human and touching moments
of the Games. One of the best things about covering
(03:20):
the Olympics for me was having the opportunity to co
host the opening ceremony with Bob Costas. I did that
a few times and we had so much fun. Now
Bob has covered more than a dozen Olympic Games. He
started out as the late night host in and he's
his name has really become synonymous with the Olympics, so
(03:41):
he kind of makes me look like a piker covering
only eight. I think Bob is a living example of
the boy scout motto be prepared. So I wanted to
talk to him about that, but also learn how he
got interested in covering sports. So Bob Costas is with us.
Hey Bob, we're so excited. Hi Katie, let's talk about
(04:01):
your career. How did you get started. Well, when I
was a kid, like many kids of my generation and
every generation, I was fascinated by sports, and as tried
as it sounds, it was a connection between me and
my dad and the other kids that I grew up with.
But maybe unlike most of them, I was also as
interested in the broadcasters as I was in the games
(04:22):
themselves and the athletes. To me, the games weren't the
same without the soundtrack. And I grew up in New
York in the late fifties and in the sixties when
many of the greatest announcers of all time were plying
their trade in New York. And these guys weren't just
competent announcers. And I say guys because for the most part,
(04:43):
although there are more women now, there are originally no
women's sports broadcasters at that time. Uh, those broadcasters didn't
just do a competent job. They did a lyrical job.
In many cases, there was almost a melody to a
good broadcast, and the as of them had a literate
touch without being pretentious. They gave you the notion, the
(05:06):
understanding that they were men of the world, at least
to some extent, that they had interest beyond the game,
and they could weave some of those observations in to
give the broadcast a little more texture than ball one,
strike two, or there's a person down or a touchdown.
And their mastery of that craft was fascinating to me.
(05:27):
And that's when the notion of being a broadcaster first
took hold. And that's what happened to me. I was
going to say you you became a master storyteller and
a sports fanatic, because I think there are very few
people in broadcasting, in my opinion, who are as sort
of seamless, fluent and eloquent as you are in almost
(05:48):
every situation. And I'm assuming that you weren't at Syracuse
even studying communications or really sports and news. I'm sure
you study a lot of other things that were helpful
to you in your career. What were those things that
contributed to your ability to be a critical thinker and
(06:08):
to express yourself so well, well, you know, I've always
been a reader, and I've always been someone who was
interested in pop culture in the biggest sense. Um, I
think there's a part of me that's probably an old soul,
but I was interested in what was going on at present.
But I was also interested in history in the most
(06:31):
classic sense, but also the history of pop culture, and
a lot of that just seeped in and I retained
of the portion of it. And then as I watched
and listened to people on radio and television, I always
admired those who had a certain mastery of language, the
red Barbers of the Vincecullies, who would never miss a
(06:52):
beat on what was happening in the game, but at
the same time would fill in all the little brushstrokes
along with the broad strokes. Know what the weather was
at the ball game, or what the atmosphere was, and
you'd find out some interesting story about a ballplayer's hometown
or something that happened the night before while they were
out to dinner in this city or that, and that
(07:12):
that to me made it a fuller picture. It wasn't
just the primary colors it It had a texture to it. Bob,
could you tell us a little bit more about your
relationship with your parents. I remember reading that sports in
general and baseball in particular, was a way for you
to connect with your dad. Yeah, my father was a
(07:33):
colorful character. He was very smart, he was charismatic, he
was people of an older generational understand this reference. He
was a runyonesque kind of character. But he was also
a compulsive gambler, which led to some exciting and interesting
and numerous circumstances, but also to some heartache because very often,
no joke, the mortgage would be writing, or our ability
(07:56):
to pay it would be writing on whether or very
stressed out by that bos I stretched out, Oh yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, the whole the whole family was stressed out.
And very often my mom, who was the sweetest woman
you could ever hope to meet, and my younger sister
two years younger than me, they would leave and go
to the neighbor's house or go to grandma's house. But
(08:18):
I would stay and watch the games with my dad,
and there was a lot of tension writing. He made
a pretty good living for a guy in the nineteen sixties,
but you know, we lived in a house that he
bought for nineteen thousand dollars on the g I bill,
and it was not unusual at all for him to
have three, four or five thousand dollars worth of action
(08:38):
going on a weekend. So those bets went well, terrific
that those bets went less well, then we couldn't pay
the mortgage. And I remember going with him, and this
is kind of how we bonded. I remember going with
him once to a donut shop in Brooklyn, was around
nineteen sixty six, and he was going to meet the bookie.
(09:00):
So there we are sitting at the counter and a
guy who looks like he was sent in by Central Casting.
He's got a fedora on, he's carrying a pinky ring.
He looks like Nathan Detroit. Nathan Detroited would be charitable.
He looks like a guy who might be mob connected,
but on the other hand made the Detroit might have
been too, But he was. He wasn't as handsome as
(09:21):
Marlon Brando, let's put it that way. But nonetheless I
remember him saying, hey, that your boy. But yeah, he
goes nice boy. He says, you drink milk, And I'm
thinking to myself, I'm fourteen years old, No, you smicked.
I drink tequila. Yes, I drink milk. And the guy
goes give the kid a glass of milk and a doughnut.
(09:42):
And then while all this stuff is unfolding, he slides
a paper bag across the counter to my father and
after a few little pleasantries, were back out in the
car and under a street light in Brooklyn in nineteen
sixty six, my father counts out fourteen thousand dollars in
one hundred dollar bills that he had just collected from
(10:04):
the bookie because he had been on a winning streak. Now,
in that moment, despite all the anxiety and heartache that
came at other times because of his gambling, at that moment,
I'm thinking, my father is one of the coolest guys
in the world. The other dad's on the block, just
mow the lawn on Saturday. This guy, this guy is
living a life of danger and adventure. And in moments
(10:26):
like that, what would happen is he took the money
and he went and bought a Ford Mustang, which, as
you remember, with a really cool car. I remember going
with him and he does the usual things, you know,
he's lifting the hood, he's kicking the tires and I
remember distinctly the salesman said, is it a little out
of your league? And my father reached into his pocket
(10:48):
and he had this giant load of bills. He goes, no,
I'm gonna bleep in buy it cash if I bleep
and decide to bleep and buy it. Um so, And
he didn't say. To be clear, now there was no
senser involved. Did that mess up your attitude toward money?
I mean, I would think that growing up with a
(11:08):
father like that and having that much stress didn't make
you a compulsive saver. Did it affect your attitudes? I'm
not a thrifty guy. Um. I think that if you're
lucky enough to have some money, to use it to
enhance your own life and the lives of others. I'm
not that much for material possessions, but I'm big on experiences.
(11:32):
So if you can you can help someone have an
enjoyable time, or if you can do something with your
family or people you care about that I'm not looking
to die with the highest possible that we're you know,
we're lucky enough to not have to worry about that,
which is quite a contrast to the way I grew up.
What it did affect was by attitudes toward gambling. UM
in the past when I've covered some boxing, which I
(11:53):
haven't done that much, but a lot of the boxing
when I was at HBO was either in Las Vegas
or an Atlantic city. I could walk to it this
know a hundred times and never stopped. I'm just walking
right through and go into my room. UM. And I
never gambled as as an adult, UM, because I saw
what it did to my dad. But at the same time, UM,
(12:14):
it connected me to him. And when I was young,
really young, like nine, ten years old, he would give
me the keys of the car, not to drive it
around the block because I could barely see over the
steering wheel, but because you could get radio reception in
the car better than in the house. And at that
time there's no internet, there's no cable TV, there's no
way to follow his bets on non New York teams
(12:35):
except to hope that through the crackle and static, maybe
you could pick up far away radio broadcast. So when
I was ten years old, I knew where all the
games were and if the atmospheric conditions were just right,
and if I calibrated the dial like a safe cracker
and hit just the right spot. Maybe I could pick
up these out of town broadcasts. And those were my
first reporters jobs, because I'd go back in the house
(12:58):
and I would not only tell him what this score was,
but i'd a bellowship. I'd say, well, clement A single
to right, and Stargell doubled. Clement A scored Star was
at second Skinner single, he scored to nothing, Pirates bottom
of the fourth, and he papped me on the head.
Of course, I'd only do that if I knew his
bet was on the Pirates. If he bet against the
(13:19):
Pirates and this was bad news, I'm going to tell
him that I couldn't get it, but I couldn't find
it because I didn't want to put up with what
his possible reaction would be to the fact that he
was losing a thousand dollars. Bob, you're talking about fighting,
and not that long ago, you and I actually went
to the funeral of Muhammad Ali, and I know he's
somebody you deeply admired. I'm just interested in and sort
(13:44):
of what that experience was like for you, because it
was a real treat for me to see this very
interesting conglomeration of people, including Don King, who really had
you figured for someone else? Altogether? Tell that story because
it was very funny. Don King comes walking in. He's
(14:05):
in his eighties now, he's a slightly diminished version of
Don King, but he's still unmistakably Don King, with the
outrageous hair and the the outfits that he's waving his
American flags and he's greeting everyone. Lennox lewis, former heavyweight
champion of the world, not la most of the Today's Show,
blah blah. And he gets to me and you're standing
right next to me, and he goes, Michael J. Fox,
(14:29):
he wanted his picture with you, and you said, very
very gently, don no, I said Mr King, Mr King,
Mr Kings pok Costice, and he, without missing a beat
in a millisecond, pivots and says Bob cost this greatest
commentator in the world. Don knows no shame. That was
(14:55):
quite an event. And I'm just curious now that some
time has pass, um, what do you remember most about
that day other than being with me and having much together.
Of course that's at the top of the list. Um. Well,
when when you've got a range of people that goes
(15:15):
from former heavyweight champions of the world, and Jim Brown,
who's a much respected figure, and Billy Crystal and President Clinton,
but also includes Chubby Checker, who you know. I've known
Chubby Checker for forty years. Uh, And remember being eight
or nine years old when the Twist was a big hit,
(15:36):
and I guess the Chubby and Mohammed were close. I mean,
the number of people that eventually came into Muhammad Ali's
orbit was was fast and the kind of arc of
his life. He wasn't any one thing. Was he this
angry and too many Americans frightening and polarizing figure and
(15:57):
to other Americans deeply inspiring and ages figured, Yes he was,
and was he ultimately a figure of reconciliation and unity
and brotherhood. Yes he was, which didn't negate what he
was earlier in his life. His life just had an
extraordinary art to it. And when you think of this
guy who was once not only arguably the greatest athlete
(16:20):
in the world, certainly the greatest boxer in the world,
but the most physically beautiful athlete, the most fascinating and
charismatic to watch, the most outspoken, humorous and entertaining, and
then he ends his life with virtually no mobility when
once he was the very definition of athletic grace, and
no ability to verbally express himself when once he was
(16:44):
the most valuable of of athletes. There was something very
poignant about that, and yet, with the help of his wife, Lonnie,
he still managed to be a public figure in a
way that had some dignity to it. The whole art
of his life is unline that of any other athlete.
I remember Bob doing a piece with Michael J. Fox
(17:05):
about Muhammad Ali, and that was very moving to see
them join forces. And I think he got a lot
of courage from Michael J. Fox, because I think there
was a period of time where he was embarrassed to
appear in public and he didn't want people to see.
You know that he had become diminished from this disease.
(17:26):
And I think all the things that he's done for
Parkinson's research and all the inspiration he's given people who
are dealing with the disease. My father died of Parkinson's
and so I became very interested in sort of the science.
I think he sort of died as he lived. I mean,
he was incredibly committed to this cause and I think
(17:48):
very very inspiring to so many people. We're going to
take a quick break and we'll be right back. Thanks
again to our sponsors. Let's get back to the interview.
Let's talk about the Olympics. Bob, You've been the primetime
(18:08):
host for every Olympics on MPC since n you were
the late night host of the Games. Do you ever
get sick of the Olympics? Be honest, no, um no,
I don't get sick of them. No matter who some
days succeeds me. That person, if they're a thinking person
I assume they will be, is not going to agree
(18:30):
with every aspect of it. It's just too vast. There
are parts of it that are going to appeal to you,
arts of it where maybe if you were making the decision,
you might emphasize this rather than that. But in the
big picture, being the host is not only an honor,
it's an important responsibility because so many hundreds of thousands
of people work really hard to produce these pieces and
(18:52):
to put everything in place. You owe it not just
to yourself and to the audience, but to all your colleagues.
Do the best possible job. But are there lines when
I say to myself, you know what this particular thing
isn't my cup of tea, or if I was running it,
I'd do it this way, of course. But of the time,
you know, I'm well aware that no one else has
(19:14):
a better position of broadcasting during those three weeks than
I do. And you do such a great job. And
I think that people probably have no idea of how
much preparation is involved in this, particularly when it comes
to you. I mean, you are just immersed in all
things Olympics. I mean, you know everything about every athlete,
every event. It's ridiculous. I mean, are you just reading
(19:38):
Olympic material from the time you wake up till the
time you go to bed and no offense? But that
sounds kind of boring your poor wife. Well, here's here's
what happens before over Olympics. You're doing preparation, at least
in a general way in the months leading up to it.
For example, with Brazil, I'm aware on an ongoing basis
of all the issues and obstacles that they face and
(20:00):
the controversies. But about a month before the opening ceremony,
you go into a lockdown mode and you take all
of the research that uh, the outstanding research department has
prepared and you start pouring through it and you close
everything else off. But one thing that's really become important
for me over the years is I learned fairly early
(20:22):
on what you don't need to know. You don't have
to know everything about or even the name of every
hurdler from Bolivia or platform diver from Peru. That's what
the people at the venues are for. And if those
athletes become a story, the research department is so good,
and now with everything digitized, you can get it so quickly.
(20:44):
But as long as you're someone who's able to take
a briefing quickly, and you know this from your days
on the Today Show or as the Network news anchor,
some stuff can be scripted and planned, and other stuff
just comes up and you have to take it, take
a quick look at it, and use your experience to
make some sense of it and get it out there quickly.
Over time, you develop those muscles and you're able to
(21:06):
do it. You have to be a quick study and
incredibly fast on your feet. You know. I want to
talk about Rio because having covered so many Olympics, and
many of them have been fraught, I guess at the
onset and usually these cities rise to the occasion. But gosh,
I feel like Rio is under more pressure than any
other city that that I've watched through, you know, the
(21:31):
Olympics that I've been aware of or at least involved in.
Rio faces such an array of issues. The pollution, the
political term, well, the financial crisis, the zeke of virus,
the venues and the infrastructure, and also security. When you
say to yourself, look, if they don't have enough money
(21:52):
to pay the police and security forces when they've got
to ask the federal government for nearly a billion dollars
in additional cord, can we be sure that everything will
be as fully buttoned up as it should be. And
in addition to the kind of terrorism that people worry
about at any big international event, um, Rio has a
problem with just general crime, street crime. You've got to
(22:15):
be very careful if you visit what areas you venture
into and what you stay away from. Are you worried
about the athletes? Are are you concerned a about the
security of the people covering the games? And are you
worried about the athletes as well? Given gosh, where we
seem to be in such a volatile, uh scary time
(22:36):
all around the world, not just in the United States.
What they have told the athletes is, if you stay
in Olympic housing, then we'll have it secured. If you
choose to stay elsewhere, then you're on your own. You've
got to get your own security. And I don't want
to be Debbie Downer here, but it's worth noting that
(23:00):
the athletes in sports where the Olympics are not the pinnacle.
You know, it's great to play on the Olympic basketball team,
but Steph Currier, Lebron James would rather win the NBA
titled than win a gold medal, or Serena Will's rather
win Wimbledon than win an Olympic gold medal. So a
great number of these basketball players, golfers, tennis players have
(23:21):
already announced their intention to skip these Olympics, and most
of them have very rationally said, look, even if the
risk is low, it's not a risk that I'm willing
to take now. If you're a pole vaulter with a
chance to win a gold medal, and you've trained for
this for four years and this is your one big
turn on the international stage, then that risk is more
(23:41):
than worth it. But those who have other options, I'm
not surprised that they've decided this to take a pass
this time. No real masters for pole vaulters, is there No.
I mean, with the Olympics, it's at best once every
four years, and maybe for some of these competitors it's
once in a lifetime. And most Americans don't pay that
much attention to Olympic sports outside the context of the Olympics.
(24:03):
So these competitors stepped out of the shadows and into
the biggest spotlight for just that a couple of weeks,
or in the case of some events, just a few
minutes or a few seconds. I think probably the biggest
story coming out of the Olympics in the United States
is the concern about Zica. And you know, the Brazilian
(24:23):
health minister says that the odds of getting it are
very low because it's happening during the South American winter. Uh.
And yet you have a number of athletes who are
deciding to skip it, as you know better than we do,
largely because of this disease um you have. You have
a number of men who are participating who say that
they're going to preserve their sperm and advance of going.
(24:46):
How are you doing that? I think I'm at a
stage of life where it's not a factor. How how
big of a crisis do you think Zekea represents. Well,
I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on TV.
It does seem credible to me that it being winter
near the equator, UH, that the risk would be diminished,
(25:10):
the mosquito population is diminished, and that if you take
uh proper precautions, the chance of it is relatively low.
But no one can guarantee that there's no chance. And
you can't blame someone from not wanting to roll the
dice if they're a female athlete. Most of these athletes
are obviously people in the prime of their lives. They're
(25:31):
sexually active, many of them are apt to become pregnant
or considering and starting a family whatever may be. Or
as male athletes, that could affect their their partners or
potential partners. So for them to be concerned about it
makes makes perfect sense to me. When you look at
sort of the highlights and low lights of your Olympic experiences,
(25:54):
and I'm sure there's so many, and you must write
a book about this at some point, but up were
some of the moments that are seared in your memory
that you know you still think about today. Well, we
talked about Muhammed Ali a moment ago, when he lit
the cauldron as the final torch bearer in nineties in Atlanta.
(26:15):
That was such a sunny moment because virtually no one knew,
including me and dick Enberg on the opening ceremony. We
might have guessed it, but no one told us that
it was going to be Ali. And they had practiced
at one time at three o'clock in the morning, I'd
say fewer than twenty people actually knew that it would
be Mohammed Ali. In the way they staged it, he
stepped out of the shadows and into that spotlight when
(26:36):
Janet Evans, who had the torch before him, handed it
to him, and there was a moment or two of
silence while it kind of sank in to the crowd watching,
and then there were almost audible gasps followed by this
deafening applause. It was surprising, it was touching, it was
exciting because of his presence, but it was also even
(26:56):
though he lived another twenty years after that, I think
that was the moment of reconciliation for him on the
world stage. There were so many aspects to that that
when I'm asked, what's my most memorable Olympic moment? Even
though I could rattle off another twenty. That's the ones
at the top. Were there any other athletes that just
(27:17):
inspired or moved to you? Yeah, And sometimes they're big
winners and sometimes their relative footnotes. When Kathy Freeman lit
the torch and then also won her event at the
Sydney Olympics because of her Aboriginal background, there was a
story there that was meaningful and inspiring to Australians and
(27:42):
which could be told and understood by the rest of
the world. And her performance she won resoundingly emphatically. But
then you have other moments, and you and I have
covered them, but we could list dozens of them. Will
just give you one. In ninety two in Barcelona, there
was a marathon her from Mongolia named Pambo Tool, and
(28:03):
the Ambo Tool had zero chance to win a medal um.
He came there with the idea of just representing his
country and finishing on top of it all, he was
legally blind. The marathon finishes in the main Olympic Stadium,
which and it's always the last day of the Olympics,
and the closing ceremony takes place in the Olympic Stadium too.
(28:26):
The Ambo tool came staggering towards the Olympic Stadium not
minutes but hours after what officials thought was the very
last competitor had finished. It took him like seven hours
to run the marathon, but he managed to finish. And
when he got to the entrance of the Olympic Stadium,
security at first stopped him, like who is this guy
(28:48):
and what is he doing? And after it was made
clear what was happening, they cleared a path for him
to get to where the finish line would have been.
And right in the middle of a closing ceremony with
all the hooplah and pageantry, this guy came staggering across
the finish line and he had accomplished what he came
there to do. And when asked about it afterwards, he said,
(29:11):
my country didn't send me here to win a medal
because I had no chance. The only thing I could
do was finish. And if you're not touched by that,
you've got to check your pulse. You know, there are
so many great stories, and one Olympics in particular was
marred for you personally because of an eye infection. You
(29:32):
got how how how how bummed were you when you
had to sit out in two thousand fourteen because you
was it officially pink eye? What happened to you? Exactly
how pink I is to viral conjunctive itis, what the
common cold is to a really bad case of influenza. Um,
(29:53):
So I had viral conjunctive itis, they hoped. I woke
up the first day that we're going to be on
the air, felt perfectly fine. When I went to bed,
woke up, looked in the mirror, my left eye was
red and virtually closed, and I'm thinking, what the heck
is this? So I go in and the NBC doctors
take a look, and at first they thought it was
some kind of bacterial infection. They give me some antibiotics,
(30:14):
They tell me it'll be gone in like three days.
But by three days it had jumped from my leftot
in my right, and now both eyes were all red
and inflamed. And they knew at that point that it's
a viral. So with something that's viral, all you can
do is make the person feel more comfortable, but it
just has to run its course and the problem. Here's
(30:35):
how I felt if it had been my first or
second Olympics. I think I would have been crushed, but
because I've done so many Olympics, I really wasn't crushed personally.
But I felt a professional responsibility to all the people
who worked so hard to put on an Olympics, and
you're the guy carrying the ball for them. So I
tried to be as professional as I could about it,
(30:56):
and anyone who recalls it fairly knows that the only
references I'm me to it were very brief, kind of
self deprecating, hopefully humorous remarks. I just was afraid that
I was creeping out most of America, and in fact,
maybe I was, but here it became part of the story,
especially in a social media age, and no matter how
professionally tried to be, and no matter how self deprecating
(31:19):
he tried to be about it, people are going to
do with it what they will. And then after five
or six days, it got to the point where my
eyes were so light sensitive. That's when I had to
step aside because I couldn't be in the studio. So
for six days I'm in a dark and hotel room
with various things over my eyes, washed claus and dipped
in one solution or another and taking whatever they told
(31:40):
me to take, and by I don't know, the six
or seventh day, I was able to come back and
kind of stumble through what remained of the Olympics. But
for about two months after the games, my eyesight was compromised.
My prescription kept changing. I couldn't read the newspaper. It
was really hard to call baseball games because I couldn't
see out of the distance. And it was probably around
June or July before it finally stabilized. Well, we're glad
(32:05):
that it did, and that that you're all better. And
you mentioned social media, and I guess they had a
field day with this, which is sort of shitty when
you think about how miserable it must have been for you.
But social media can be even more than sort of shitty,
and you experience that with your remarks about Caitlyn Jenner
(32:25):
when she got the Arthur Ash Award. Yeah, the backlash
wasn't too terrible. It came from certain quarters and then
in other places, like it was like, hey, he's saying
something that's just common sense. But what happened with Caitlyn
Jenner was this. Dan Patrick has a radio show which
I go on from time to time, and he just says,
(32:46):
what do you make of Caitlyn Jenner winning the Arthur
Ash Award at the SPS? Now, I don't think the
SPS are really worth that much attention. They're clearly made
for TV event and a promotional vehicle for ESPN, and
they're welcome to it. But the only two things that
redeem it are the Jim Belvano Award and the Arthur
(33:08):
Ash Award, because they stand for something. And my point was,
and I took pains to make this clear, I support
Caitlin Jenner in her decision. I certainly hope we're moving
toward a more tolerant and compassionate society, for people are
free to choose their own path in life, and we
treat them with respect and dignity, and so I'm all
(33:30):
for it, and I recognize that it takes a measure
of courage to do it. But at the same time,
the Arthur Ash Award is supposed to represent people who
have used their position as athletes two get beyond just
those achievements, and up until that very moment, Bruce or
(33:51):
Caitlyn Jenner had never done that. So what I said
was what they should have done, would have been A
brilliant stroke would be to have Caitlyn Jenner. Because of
her visibility, and it is television and you're trying to
bring eyeballs to set, why don't you have Caitlyn Jenner
present the Arthur Ash Award to Renee Richards, who had
been Richard Raskin underwent gender reassignment surgery I think in
(34:16):
the nineteen seventies while still an active tennis player, then
played as Renee Richards against whoever her contemporary where she's
still alive and in her eighties. You could have had
Caitlyn Jenner make the speech that she made, which was lovely,
and at the same time present the award to someone
who actually represented what I took the Arthur Ash Award
(34:38):
to represent. But some people just think in a binary way,
and so to some people, how you feel about Caitlyn
Jenner receiving the Arthur Ash Award is a litmus test
of how you feel about the rights and dignity of
transgender people. Well, if that's how some people think, um,
I guess there's nothing to do about it. Do you
think if it were this year and Caitlyn Jenner was
(35:00):
up for the award, you would feel more comfortable given
that she has given voice to many transgender people and
sort of I think increased understanding of the whole issue
to a whole generation of people. Yeah, somewhat. I think
the very first thing that Caitlyn Jenner did to take
(35:23):
a step in that direction actually was after she received
the award, when she made the speech. There's no hostility
in my in my take, he asked me the question.
I gave him what I thought was a well considered
answer under the circumstances. But there's still if you if
you want to parse it, there's a difference between the
experiences of Caitlyn Jenner, who had a five million dollar
(35:45):
reality series waiting for her, and a well thought out
kind of rollout of this cover of Vanity Fair up
from the mistake in the book. Reality show interview with
Diane Sawyer. I'm not criticizing any us, but this is
hardly typical of the experiences and the obstacles that a
(36:07):
transgender person is likely to encounter in going forward. Bob,
Before we wrap up, I have to ask you about
the other great competition dominating the media at this point,
which is, of course, the presidential campaign. Do you know
Donald Trump and what do you make of his role
in this extravaganza. I have known Donald Trump, not well,
(36:32):
but that acquainted with him since the nineteen eighties. He's
always had um some relationships sports. He owned a team
in UH the old USFL, which posed the challenge briefly
to the NFL. So I've encountered him at charity events
and whatnot, and I must say that he was always
extremely friendly and nice to me. We never talked politics,
(36:54):
We talked sports and television. I have not caused paths
with him, probably in the last three years or so.
What do you think about his candidacy and sort of
what it has symbolized I think, or what it has
told us about the state of our country. Well, I
think it comes about because of a confluence of events. Um,
(37:18):
there's some similarity with Bernie Sanders candidacy in that UH
at the root of it, the gut reaction is discussed
or impatience with politics and government and business as usual,
and that's understandable. Depend there's also the aspect of a
celebrity culture and left and right wing echo chambers on
(37:41):
cable television. We live in a post factual universe where anything,
even if it doesn't check out. That supports your gut feeling.
You'll find a place that will echo that, and it
will reverberate. And it doesn't just apply to Donald Trump.
It's hey, if I agree with it, if I like
him or her, I don't want to hear anything that
(38:01):
differs from that, and anything that supports my viewpoint. It's true.
I don't have to check it out. It's it's amazing.
Daniel Patrick moynihan, UM Senator, intellectual long gone but famously
once said, you're entitled to your own opinion. You're not
entitled to your own facts, but these days you are.
We live in a post factual world where at hominum
(38:24):
attacks and baseless assertions, no matter where they come from,
pass for insight and pass forward legitimate arguments. And I
don't think on balance that that can be good for
the country. I'm curious, as somebody who consumes media and
of course understands media as much as you do. What's
your take? Was he given too much airtime while the
(38:47):
other candidates weren't because it was basically good for the
bottom line. To some extent, that has to be true.
He moves the needle news or what passes for news
is business, just the same as any other television program
is UM And except for a few people trying to
hold the line and uphold standards, UM, it's not going
(39:10):
in the direction that that you and I grew up
approving of an aspiring to Well, I'm that happy note
going to hell in a handbasket. Good night everybody. Bob.
It's always great to talk to you. It's always so
wonderful to hear your insights, and you're quite a rock
(39:30):
on tour. By the way, Thank you. Let's let's see
how much trouble you and I can get in over
this one. Yeah, anyway, Bob, I hope I get to
see you soon. Thanks so much for taking the time
to talk to us today. Thanks Katie, Thanks Brian. So
as you can see, Bob can talk about everything and anything,
not just about sports, and that's why I love having
(39:53):
conversations with him, because I'm always dazzled by his eloquence.
He's going to think that's really weird for me to say,
but it's true, Bob. I'm sorry. I can't wait to
hear what he says about Rio because it's been plagued
by some significant problems. You have to feel sorry for
the city in a way, because they're dealing with Zeka,
the economy, crime, and apparently the Olympic village itself is
(40:16):
having some problems. So I hope everything works itself out
by the time they say let the Games begin. By
the way, I just made an appearance on this really
fun parenting show called The Longest Shortest Time. I love
(40:40):
the title because I feel like it is the longest
shortest time having daughters who are twenty five and twenty
and having no idea how that happened. But you can
go listen for a little peek into my personal life.
I talk about what my mom did when she found
me making out in a guy's basement when I was
sixteen years old, mortifying, and how I'm dealing with my
(41:02):
impending sixtieth birthday. So you can find The Longest Shortest
Time on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.
We want to thank Gretta Cone and the Right Reverend
John Delore for producing the show. Thanks to Mark Phillips
for our terrific theme music. David Herman mixed this episode,
(41:26):
and thank you for listening. Please subscribe, rate, and review
the podcast. That's what helps other listeners find the show
and we'll talk to you next time. When my baby
smiles at me, I go to Rio de Janeiro. Okay, Grett,
(41:46):
it's gonna find a way to use that. By the way,
I do have a good voice for radio. I think
you do have a good voice face for radio too.
I have a voice for print. No, that's not true.
That's funny. M
Host
Katie Couric
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