December 23, 2021 • 29 mins
This week on Next Question, Katie is sharing some interviews from her whirlwind, nine-city book tour, where she brought her memoir, “Going There,” to life and also shared the stage with some very special guests. On Nov. 13, Katie traveled to San Francisco and was joined at The Masonic by Leslie Jordan, actor, singer and another Instagram fave. Katie and Leslie talk about his childhood in Chattanooga, Tennessee, spending the pandemic with his mother, his surprise viral fame, and new music career. Follow all of Leslie’s activities and antics on Instagram. Also, find out more about that new duets album, “Company’s Coming.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm back with another book to our bonus
episode of Next Question. Today we are headed to the
Golden State, San Francisco, where I got to talk to
everyone's favorite Instagram buddy, Leslie Jordan's. We had a blast
and I think you will too. My next guest really
(00:23):
needs no introduction, with all due respect to David Letterman.
So we all got to know him during the early
days of the pandemic. I thought his Instagram was so
damn funny. I just had to meet him, albeit virtually,
and let's just say we took a liking to each other.
I've since learned about his incredible, unique life story and
(00:45):
just how talented he really is. I mean, he can
do it all. I am so excited for you all
to get to know the wonderful Leslie Alan Jordan's. Thank
you for having me. You are welcome. I am so
happy you're here. Is it hot? In? Hearers at me?
(01:07):
What is the deal with this theater? I am like,
I've already gone through menopause. What the hell is happening?
So I talk to us, Mr tell us what's going on? Well,
what is going on? I'm doing a television show called
Call Me Cat with my Ambiollic who you may know
(01:29):
from how you know her from everything? She was blossom
and she had the uh what's that with? Um? Jim
Parsons the Big Bang Theory? She was amy on the
Big Bang Theory for years. So I've got that going on.
I'm gonna be um. I've got this whole other career
that I just fell into. I'm gonna be a rock
(01:52):
singer or like a hymn singer. I don't know what
you're gonna call. I've got an album called Company's Coming,
and I make a list and I'm not a singer,
but for some reason, hymns, just old Southern hymns I
can sing. Oh, you wouldn't believe. In the church, they said,
(02:13):
just sing out for the Lord, and so I would sing.
But I came up with a list of everybody I
thought I'd like to sing a hymn with and put
together and every one of them said, yes, Dolly, pardon
um uh oh everybody, yeah, everybody. And that's so exciting.
(02:35):
And you well, we're going to talk about the better.
We're gonna talk about that in a minute. Got no, no, no,
it's totally fine. I got a clip because I want
to show everyone how cute you look in your country outfit.
I like your classes. Where did I get them? You
got them in the lobby. I got them from you.
Those are your Catius glasses from the going their tour.
(02:56):
But let's talk Leslie. Let's talk first about this whole
phenomenon that you created on Instagram. You during the pandemic,
you started posting. You moved back to Chattanooga where you're from,
stayed with your mama, and you started posting things on Instagram.
We're going to take a look at one of them,
and it's so random but so adorable. Let's let's watch
(03:21):
Why are ship? What are you all day? It is awful?
It's still March, many days in March. When is I
We're gonna fucking get well? My mother holding up the steps?
(03:44):
Ask me who I'm talking to? I'm talking come, my friend,
mama bothering me? How much more were this gonna take?
So you just did the sort of funny stream of
consciousness videos and you ended up you you started, you
(04:07):
had kind of maxed out at eighty thousand followers, and
then you're You're like, you have six million followers now, Leslie,
So why do you think why do you think so
many people gravitated to your feed during the pandemic? What
was going on there? Well, you know, my mother said
to me, why why would you talk like that? In
(04:28):
all those people you weren't raced to talk like that?
Because I said, and I said, I bought you a condo.
So but what hapever was I started? I was a
marketing genius and I didn't even know it because I
(04:49):
knew I didn't want to talk about politics, I didn't
want to talk about religion, and I didn't want to
sell anybody anything. So for I didn't even know what content.
You know, the wake up in the morning now and
I think I gotta come up with some content, you know,
I got to post something back then. I posted twice
a day for eighty days, just whatever, you know? And
(05:12):
what and how did people react? And you must have
gotten so many d m since as you as I said,
so many followers. What were they saying to you? You
know they were they were wonderful because they were saying,
you know, it's so tough right now. You know, people
would come up to me in the grocery store and saying,
I'm stuck at I was stuck at home with my
husband and my kids, and I would just I just
needed a dose of you every day. And I realized
(05:35):
the power of comedy, you know, just pure comedy, just
you know. And as I said, I didn't try to
sell anybody. I'm rethinking that board. But it was you know,
and and and stuck in Tennessee. And my phone rang
(05:56):
early on because it jumped from like you said, twenty,
I had twenty or thirty forty and then um, Megan
Malally from my will and Grace day, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
back to me. Sorry that bit stole my thunder for
eight years. So she's a dear friend about it. But anyway,
(06:23):
Megan Malally reposted and I jumped to about you know,
I guess I don't know eighty thousand, and I thought wow.
And then I don't know what happened, you know, I
don't know how that works. But my friend called and said, Leslie, honey,
you have gone viral. And I said, no, I'm in Tennessee.
I don't have COVID, I'm he said, no, Internet viral.
(06:49):
And it just well, people, I mean, you just spread
so much joy and you do make people smile and laugh.
And you know, I was talking to Orally Brown. I
don't know if you heard our conversation, but she's just
an amazing woman. Grew up in Mississippi, one of twelve kids,
the daughter of sharecroppers, and I wanted to talk. I'm
fascinated about people's childhoods and what makes them tick. You
(07:11):
were you were born and raised in Chattanooga, Tennessee. You
have twin sisters, and sisters twenty two months. They're twins
and twenty two months younger than me. So tell us
a little bit about your childhood, Leslie. Well, you know,
my my mother was nineteen when I was born. Daddy
was twenty two. You think back, you think, my God,
(07:33):
just babies raising babies. But we were never at home,
you know. We were always on the go. Um My,
uh my, my mother and my maternal grandmother, her mother,
I think took one look at a little Leslie and
(07:54):
thought he's gonna need some help because you know, I
wasn't like the other boys. I didn't play I didn't
like sports, you know, and they created they circle the wagons,
as only good Southern mothers can do. They circle those
wagons and created this amazing little secret garden where I
(08:15):
could play with dolls. You know, I could twirl a baton,
you know, I could do whatever I wanted to do.
But then, you know, you just knew you don't tell daddy,
you know, because I would. I was so doll close.
I said, i'mnna show daddy. No, no, don't show daddy.
It's just don't show daddy. And then, you know, my
(08:36):
dad would come home. He was a lieutenant colonel in
the army. I was not exactly the sun he envisioned,
and so he would and I would be twirling a
baton in the front yard, you know. And then but
he adored me. He adored me, and and you lost
him when you were just eleven years eleven. When he happened,
he was flying, he was in the Army reserves by
(08:57):
the end, and he was flying to Hattisburg, Mrs Hippy
from Chattanooga, Tennessee. And this plane, there were ten men
on it just undershot the runway. It was just but
you know, a terrible time for a kid to lose
his dad, you know, and especially and it's so funny
because I thought that maybe I had been somewhat of
a disappointment to him, and um, I mentioned that to
(09:20):
my mother and she was a bergasted. She said, you're
daddy adored you, you know, but it's just I don't know,
you know, I felt like because I wasn't good. And
then she told me this crazy story. She said, you know,
when you were little, we took you to a wedding
and uh Alan, my dad kept saying, Peggy, he's not
(09:40):
gonna sit still. I'm a very excitable boy. And they
were right. I was up. I was down, and mother thought, well,
I'm gonna have to take him out. And mother said,
all of a sudden, the bride swept down the aisle,
and she said, I just froze like a pointer dog
like and I couldn't get that bright, and all I
(10:03):
could talk about when I got home, and I made
up a game called Bright and Gun, and I was
the bright and I had an angel food cake pan
on my head, and I'd taken mother's white tearcloth bathrobe
and slipped it on backwards. It was Empire ways, it
was beautiful, it was, and I had and I bank.
(10:25):
My cousin Karen walked me around. She made her be
the goon and walked me all around my house. And
then for Christmas, I wanted a bride doll. That's what
I wanted. And my daddy said to my mother, I'm
not gonna get him a bride doll, Piggy. I'm just not.
You know, you're trying. We're talking the fifties, you know,
we're talking the Rank ten fifties, and I'm wanting a
(10:47):
bride doll. And so mother said, well, let's just don't
mention again and maybe he'll forget about it, you know.
But it's all I could talk about Christmas Eve. So
mother said, well, I don't. I don't know what you're
gonna say to him in the morning, Allen. But and
so she heard the front door shut and my daddy
(11:07):
went out. This would have been nineteen. Well, I was
whatever and bought his twelve, his three year old son,
the most beautiful bride doll. Mother said it was. It
was in a box of cellophane. And she said, when
I came down the steps and I saw her under
the tree, I squatted in the floor and pee. I
(11:27):
just paid all over the Thanks for sharing. So you
have talked about the fact that if you hadn't lost
your dad when you were eleven years old as a
as a gay teenager, it you might not have come
out or how would that affected sort of your journey
(11:47):
and being open about your sexuality. You know, I don't know.
I told my mother. You know, people say, well, when
did you come out? I sort of fell out of
the womb and to her high heels. So you have
to have been in and come out. And I don't
(12:08):
know how I negotiated that, but I just you know,
I remember in high school, i'd sit people down. I
would say, listen, I have a secret. I need to
tell you I'm gay. And they'd go and I was
the secret, you're gay and you murdered somebody. It sounds
like it sounds like your father was very supportive of
(12:28):
He was supportive, and I just wonder, you know, I
just wonder what it would have been like. You know,
who knows he loved me, So I cannot imagine, you know,
someone who bought their three year old son of bride doll,
you know, being upset. You know, yeah, you're the one
that bought me the bride dog. You made me this
way more with the one and only Leslie Jordan's right
(12:52):
after this, Well, let's talk about so it's so fascinating
you grow up grow up in in Chattanooga and then
you go to ut Knoxville and you take an acting
class or you know, just kind of to fulfill some
(13:14):
kind of requirement. And then I know you said it
performing hit you like a drug. It was just I couldn't.
I wanted to be a journal journalist. I was a
journalism major, and I took intro to theater for from
my arts elective. And that afternoon I went to the
head of the department. I said, what do I this?
(13:35):
What what do I do? He said, well, first let's
learn how to pronounce he's because it was I was saying, uh, theater. Yeah,
I'm gonna get a green theater. He goes, it's theater.
I won't get me a degrade theater. And but but
(13:56):
you obviously fell in love with acting. Got on a
bus twelve hundred dollars that my mother sewed into my underpants.
I had no fear. I had no fear back then.
I just think back on it just makes me tired.
I got on a bus pinning my underpants, my degree
in theater, and a tiny suitcase, and I got off
(14:18):
at the corner of Hollywood and Vine, which so you're
twenty two years old at the time. No, I was
older than that by then, I think, yeah, and you
got there, you got to Hollywood, and I know your
mom said, if it doesn't work out, you can come home,
she said, and you'll have a standing ovation. That's so sweet.
(14:38):
And and so what was it like when you first
got to Hollywood trying to break into the business, because
you know, well, it was interesting because it was very
wink wink, because you would go out at night to
the gay bars and you would dance and this and that,
and you would see everybody would see producers, you would
see actors and this and that. But in the daytime,
(15:02):
you know, very wink wink, you know. And I had representation,
uh that were gay. My agent was gay. Everybody was gay.
They told me. Now. They would call me up and say, now, listen,
feed on the ground. Put your voice in your lower register.
You know, la la la, don't go in there. Take
(15:24):
it down, you know, take it down a not right.
I wore cowboy boots and I had a mustache. And
you're mazing you. My friend looked back, because who does
she think she's fooling? But that you also had you
(15:44):
struggled back in those days, Leslie, you had some pretty
dark days. You had problems with substance abuse, you ended
up in jail. Um, I mean, what do you think
major life unravel once you got to Hollywood. I don't know.
I just think I really I've I've always you know,
around the rooms of recovery, they talk of this gene,
(16:07):
you know, that addictive people have. And I think I
used to think, oh, bullshit, you're infantile. Is I'm just
need to grow up? No, there's something, as I see
it in my family, you know, with one twin who
who we've had the dark twin. You know, she's had props.
And I think I don't know, I don't know what
it was. I do think that once I got sober,
(16:30):
I was forty two years old, and I remember thinking,
my friends said to me, you're a and this is
a terrible thing to say, but he said, you're a
fag hating fag honey. And I said, what do you mean?
And he said, you you have so much self hatred,
you know. So a lot of that was internal homophobia,
(16:52):
That's just what it was. It was the shame, you know,
having been brought up in the church. Also, I've been
baptized forteen times. We're not gonna go down that road.
But anyway, but just accepting something that I knew, you know,
was me. I was born this way, and so anyway.
It took years and years and years of UM. I'm
(17:14):
glad I got into recovery because they you don't go
over your problems. You don't go under your problems. You
go through and and um, and you're doing well. Now.
I'll tell a really funny story that when I first
got into recovery, my spiritual advisor said, your greatest fearlessly
and fear is what drives us to drink and drug.
Your greatest fear is heterosexual men. I said, well, no, ship,
(17:38):
it wasn't exactly a picnic on the playground, you know.
And he said, well, I want you to join a
stag recovery group all men. And I said, I was
scared to death. I don't know why. So I went
and joined this recovery group. There were fifty of the
butchers men you've ever seen. And my, my, my buser
(18:02):
said I want you to walk right up to the
podium and I want you to tell them I am
scared to death of you man. And so right before
the meeting started I called him and I said, do
you think I should just tell him that I'm gay,
just right off the bat, he goes, Honey, you got
to walk to the podium. They're gonna know you. You
(18:31):
know what, what I think is so interested to that,
while you're in the throes of some of your really
tough days, you were ministering to to AIDS victims because
you were in California at the height of the crisis.
And I'm curious what motivated you to do that and
what you learned from that experience. You know what happened
(18:54):
was and it's it's when when the pandemic started, I
remember thinking of myself, I've been through this on some scale.
I kept thinking, and it hit me like ino, here
we were gay men were dropping like flies. We couldn't
get help from anyone. The government was not really helping us,
(19:15):
and we had I remember looking at one another and saying,
we're going to have to take care of our own.
And so all these you know, groups started, and UM,
I got very involved with an organization called Project night Light,
which was all we did was sit with men who
were in hospice near the end and UM and so
(19:40):
all of that was happening. On top of it was
a very tumultuous time. But I look back and I
don't I'm not. It wasn't a sad time for me.
You know, we galvanized. And I'm hoping kind of that
the same thing is going to happen as we come
through this pandemic, because what happened was after it was
all over the gay community, were we were strong, we
(20:01):
were more apt to reach out to one another, to
help another. We've all been through it together. I'm hoping
maybe with this pandemic that will come out the other
end and as because this doesn't know, you know, gay, straight, white,
black all over the world. You know, maybe we can
come through this and uh be kinder, you know, be
(20:24):
more willing to wouldn't that be nice? Then the pulpit.
I mean, you know, I write in my book about
how you know, first of all, your big break came
in Will and Grace when you played Beverly Leslie. And
it was a role originally for Joan Collins, but it
landed in your lap somehow, Leslie. I mean, and and
(20:47):
and I write a lot in my book about how
much change we've actually witnessed when it comes to gay rights.
You know, I covered Matthew Shepard, that darling boy who
was beaten to death and waoming, and talked about, you know,
all kinds of issues facing the gay community. Then I,
you know, fast forward seventeen years. I interviewed Jim oh
(21:09):
burgha fell, the plaintiff in the same sex marriage ruling
by the Supreme Court. And when you look at the
strides that have made been made and granted, not everywhere
in the country, but in general, do you feel heartened
by that? And and and did you ever think in
your lifetime, growing up as a little boy in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
(21:32):
that we would see a culture where there's much more acceptance.
I thought I was only queer on the planet. I
thought I was the only one. I mean, what would
I what would I know? I was in an elevator
in Denver one time and there was a lady, a
little lady there, and she said, I love your work.
I said, oh, thank you. You're not what really paying attention,
(21:53):
And she said, my name's Judy Shepard. And I burst
into tears, and we got off the elevator and talked
in depth about all that. But you know, to have
been on the forefront of all of this, you know,
um and I'm very proud. You know. Sometimes it's funny.
I saw two guys sitting side by side holding hands
(22:15):
not too long ago, and I walked by the table.
I said, I just love this. I said, I hope
you kids realize you know what we went through there,
like uh huh yeah anyway, And I thought, oh, I
don't want to be that one. You know that all
we red there the war. You have no idea. I
don't want to hear it. You know, they're gonna have
their own thing. And but you know, I'm proud. I'm
(22:37):
proud to have been a part of all that. We'll
be right back. You are got to have so much
going on, as you were talking about, You've got this
show with me, uh my embolic AND's just doing Jeopardy.
She's doing a great job to anything. And you've got
(23:00):
this country album, which was you you write, You recorded
these songs that you were mentioning with all these famous
country artists, and you look so cute in your outfit.
I wanted to show a video of you singing with
Vince Gill. I think we cued that up, and you
guys rolled that. You put my life We're going to
(23:26):
We's it's a holy oh great, you're just having a ball.
(23:50):
I am so it's so great. I mean, it's so
great to see you just being discovered by so many people,
and you're having so much fun less Lee doing all
these things. You wrote a book, You've got an album,
You've got this show. Do you sometimes say you want
to pinch yourself? Every night I lay in bed and
I just think, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And
(24:12):
you know this was I'm a Tennessee boy, so to
be doing the Rheyman, you know, the Rheyman Theater, it
was just beyond anything. Yes, I've got a new one.
I from doing the Rheman again on the of November,
(24:33):
and I've got a brand new outfit. Good Before we go,
we got a quick lightning round Leslie Jordan's Can we
do It? Okay, here we go. What's your favorite country
artists or who's your favorite country artist? Dolly Parton? Okay, okay, okay,
(24:54):
mine are the chicks. Okay? What is your what is
your favorite home cook meal? Uh, beef stew, my mother's
my mother's beef stew. Okay, I like a garden's chicken. Okay.
What's your go to karaoke song um um uh oh,
the one about I remember it all fancy. I remember
(25:16):
it all very well just because I know the words
with Rayba McIntyre. But say I was a big fan
of um Bobby Gentry, who wrote I remember it all
very well looking back as a summer returned eighteen. It's
a girl thing that any way, Mine is crazy by
Patsy k Oh. I love that. Okay, what's the What
(25:38):
would be your dream job if you weren't doing what
you're doing? Something to do with horses? Really? Yeah, I'm back.
I rode my whole life and I'm back riding sixty
six years old. And I went over to the Los
Angeles Equestrian Center and I said, um, and I just
walked into a barn. But it was a barn that
handles show horses. Saddle breads always rode like hunter jumpers.
(26:02):
But these you sit back and you look pretty, and
I'm gonna start showing horses. Are yes, good for you? Okay?
Mine would be cabaret singer. Okay, what's your happy place?
On ambient I read several awful things. I took a
(26:30):
n Ambian one time and I woke up and um,
I had ordered uh I had. I thought I got
too fat at Christmas and I had ordered a slim
fast and they sent me boxes of food for slim fasts,
and I had about I think there were sixty eight desserts,
and I took an Ambian and eight all sixty eight desserts.
(26:53):
You you that happens, you sleep, you eat, that can happen.
I'm not gonna do that again. Okay, um, all right,
what we got two more? What's your favorite movie? My
favorite movie is Coal Miner's Daughter. Oh I love that,
love that movie Space and Levon Ham was in it.
(27:14):
Who I've loved him with the anyway, Leavon Halm, y'all
know who that is. Some of Levon Halm played her
daddy in the movie. But he started a group called
the Band I pulled into Nasre. Just course that's Levon Ham.
Oh yeah, we of course, of course, alright, but night
(27:36):
they drove Old Dixie down. That's yeah, I loved him.
I didn't. I didn't understand who you're saying. Okay, and
what are you most excited about now that you're such
a big deal, Leslie Jordan's I think that I'm excited that. Um,
I'm at a place in my life. I'm sixty six
years old. I've pretty much accomplished what I set out
(27:56):
to do, and so everything it just seems like it's
gravy now. So I have no big thoughts, Oh I
want to do this, I want to do that. I've
done it all and so there's something you know, they
always tell you just live it one day at a time. Well, yeah,
that's not easy, but but I'm trying to do that
and you're just having fun. I'm having a ball. Well,
thank you for coming out, Leslie Jordan and pressing. Thank you,
(28:23):
Thank you, guys, guy, say thank you again to my
friend Leslie Jordan's And if you don't follow him already
on Instagram, well shit, what are you waiting for? He's
the Leslie Jordan's Next Question with Katie Kurik is a
(28:50):
production of My Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media. The
executive producers Army, Katie Couric, and Courtney Littz. The supervising
producer is Lauren Hansen, as associate producers Derek Clements and
Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements.
For more information about today's episode, or to sign up
for my morning newsletter wake Up Call. Go to Katie
(29:12):
correct dot com. You can also find me at Katie Currect,
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Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi everyone, I'm back with another book to our bonus
episode of Next Question. Today we are headed to the
Golden State, San Francisco, where I got to talk to
everyone's favorite Instagram buddy, Leslie Jordan's. We had a blast
and I think you will too. My next guest really
(00:23):
needs no introduction, with all due respect to David Letterman.
So we all got to know him during the early
days of the pandemic. I thought his Instagram was so
damn funny. I just had to meet him, albeit virtually,
and let's just say we took a liking to each other.
I've since learned about his incredible, unique life story and
(00:45):
just how talented he really is. I mean, he can
do it all. I am so excited for you all
to get to know the wonderful Leslie Alan Jordan's. Thank
you for having me. You are welcome. I am so
happy you're here. Is it hot? In? Hearers at me?
(01:07):
What is the deal with this theater? I am like,
I've already gone through menopause. What the hell is happening?
So I talk to us, Mr tell us what's going on? Well,
what is going on? I'm doing a television show called
Call Me Cat with my Ambiollic who you may know
(01:29):
from how you know her from everything? She was blossom
and she had the uh what's that with? Um? Jim
Parsons the Big Bang Theory? She was amy on the
Big Bang Theory for years. So I've got that going on.
I'm gonna be um. I've got this whole other career
that I just fell into. I'm gonna be a rock
(01:52):
singer or like a hymn singer. I don't know what
you're gonna call. I've got an album called Company's Coming,
and I make a list and I'm not a singer,
but for some reason, hymns, just old Southern hymns I
can sing. Oh, you wouldn't believe. In the church, they said,
(02:13):
just sing out for the Lord, and so I would sing.
But I came up with a list of everybody I
thought I'd like to sing a hymn with and put
together and every one of them said, yes, Dolly, pardon
um uh oh everybody, yeah, everybody. And that's so exciting.
(02:35):
And you well, we're going to talk about the better.
We're gonna talk about that in a minute. Got no, no, no,
it's totally fine. I got a clip because I want
to show everyone how cute you look in your country outfit.
I like your classes. Where did I get them? You
got them in the lobby. I got them from you.
Those are your Catius glasses from the going their tour.
(02:56):
But let's talk Leslie. Let's talk first about this whole
phenomenon that you created on Instagram. You during the pandemic,
you started posting. You moved back to Chattanooga where you're from,
stayed with your mama, and you started posting things on Instagram.
We're going to take a look at one of them,
and it's so random but so adorable. Let's let's watch
(03:21):
Why are ship? What are you all day? It is awful?
It's still March, many days in March. When is I
We're gonna fucking get well? My mother holding up the steps?
(03:44):
Ask me who I'm talking to? I'm talking come, my friend,
mama bothering me? How much more were this gonna take?
So you just did the sort of funny stream of
consciousness videos and you ended up you you started, you
(04:07):
had kind of maxed out at eighty thousand followers, and
then you're You're like, you have six million followers now, Leslie,
So why do you think why do you think so
many people gravitated to your feed during the pandemic? What
was going on there? Well, you know, my mother said
to me, why why would you talk like that? In
(04:28):
all those people you weren't raced to talk like that?
Because I said, and I said, I bought you a condo.
So but what hapever was I started? I was a
marketing genius and I didn't even know it because I
(04:49):
knew I didn't want to talk about politics, I didn't
want to talk about religion, and I didn't want to
sell anybody anything. So for I didn't even know what content.
You know, the wake up in the morning now and
I think I gotta come up with some content, you know,
I got to post something back then. I posted twice
a day for eighty days, just whatever, you know? And
(05:12):
what and how did people react? And you must have
gotten so many d m since as you as I said,
so many followers. What were they saying to you? You
know they were they were wonderful because they were saying,
you know, it's so tough right now. You know, people
would come up to me in the grocery store and saying,
I'm stuck at I was stuck at home with my
husband and my kids, and I would just I just
needed a dose of you every day. And I realized
(05:35):
the power of comedy, you know, just pure comedy, just
you know. And as I said, I didn't try to
sell anybody. I'm rethinking that board. But it was you know,
and and and stuck in Tennessee. And my phone rang
(05:56):
early on because it jumped from like you said, twenty,
I had twenty or thirty forty and then um, Megan
Malally from my will and Grace day, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
back to me. Sorry that bit stole my thunder for
eight years. So she's a dear friend about it. But anyway,
(06:23):
Megan Malally reposted and I jumped to about you know,
I guess I don't know eighty thousand, and I thought wow.
And then I don't know what happened, you know, I
don't know how that works. But my friend called and said, Leslie, honey,
you have gone viral. And I said, no, I'm in Tennessee.
I don't have COVID, I'm he said, no, Internet viral.
(06:49):
And it just well, people, I mean, you just spread
so much joy and you do make people smile and laugh.
And you know, I was talking to Orally Brown. I
don't know if you heard our conversation, but she's just
an amazing woman. Grew up in Mississippi, one of twelve kids,
the daughter of sharecroppers, and I wanted to talk. I'm
fascinated about people's childhoods and what makes them tick. You
(07:11):
were you were born and raised in Chattanooga, Tennessee. You
have twin sisters, and sisters twenty two months. They're twins
and twenty two months younger than me. So tell us
a little bit about your childhood, Leslie. Well, you know,
my my mother was nineteen when I was born. Daddy
was twenty two. You think back, you think, my God,
(07:33):
just babies raising babies. But we were never at home,
you know. We were always on the go. Um My,
uh my, my mother and my maternal grandmother, her mother,
I think took one look at a little Leslie and
(07:54):
thought he's gonna need some help because you know, I
wasn't like the other boys. I didn't play I didn't
like sports, you know, and they created they circle the wagons,
as only good Southern mothers can do. They circle those
wagons and created this amazing little secret garden where I
(08:15):
could play with dolls. You know, I could twirl a baton,
you know, I could do whatever I wanted to do.
But then, you know, you just knew you don't tell daddy,
you know, because I would. I was so doll close.
I said, i'mnna show daddy. No, no, don't show daddy.
It's just don't show daddy. And then, you know, my
(08:36):
dad would come home. He was a lieutenant colonel in
the army. I was not exactly the sun he envisioned,
and so he would and I would be twirling a
baton in the front yard, you know. And then but
he adored me. He adored me, and and you lost
him when you were just eleven years eleven. When he happened,
he was flying, he was in the Army reserves by
(08:57):
the end, and he was flying to Hattisburg, Mrs Hippy
from Chattanooga, Tennessee. And this plane, there were ten men
on it just undershot the runway. It was just but
you know, a terrible time for a kid to lose
his dad, you know, and especially and it's so funny
because I thought that maybe I had been somewhat of
a disappointment to him, and um, I mentioned that to
(09:20):
my mother and she was a bergasted. She said, you're
daddy adored you, you know, but it's just I don't know,
you know, I felt like because I wasn't good. And
then she told me this crazy story. She said, you know,
when you were little, we took you to a wedding
and uh Alan, my dad kept saying, Peggy, he's not
(09:40):
gonna sit still. I'm a very excitable boy. And they
were right. I was up. I was down, and mother thought, well,
I'm gonna have to take him out. And mother said,
all of a sudden, the bride swept down the aisle,
and she said, I just froze like a pointer dog
like and I couldn't get that bright, and all I
(10:03):
could talk about when I got home, and I made
up a game called Bright and Gun, and I was
the bright and I had an angel food cake pan
on my head, and I'd taken mother's white tearcloth bathrobe
and slipped it on backwards. It was Empire ways, it
was beautiful, it was, and I had and I bank.
(10:25):
My cousin Karen walked me around. She made her be
the goon and walked me all around my house. And
then for Christmas, I wanted a bride doll. That's what
I wanted. And my daddy said to my mother, I'm
not gonna get him a bride doll, Piggy. I'm just not.
You know, you're trying. We're talking the fifties, you know,
we're talking the Rank ten fifties, and I'm wanting a
(10:47):
bride doll. And so mother said, well, let's just don't
mention again and maybe he'll forget about it, you know.
But it's all I could talk about Christmas Eve. So
mother said, well, I don't. I don't know what you're
gonna say to him in the morning, Allen. But and
so she heard the front door shut and my daddy
(11:07):
went out. This would have been nineteen. Well, I was
whatever and bought his twelve, his three year old son,
the most beautiful bride doll. Mother said it was. It
was in a box of cellophane. And she said, when
I came down the steps and I saw her under
the tree, I squatted in the floor and pee. I
(11:27):
just paid all over the Thanks for sharing. So you
have talked about the fact that if you hadn't lost
your dad when you were eleven years old as a
as a gay teenager, it you might not have come
out or how would that affected sort of your journey
(11:47):
and being open about your sexuality. You know, I don't know.
I told my mother. You know, people say, well, when
did you come out? I sort of fell out of
the womb and to her high heels. So you have
to have been in and come out. And I don't
(12:08):
know how I negotiated that, but I just you know,
I remember in high school, i'd sit people down. I
would say, listen, I have a secret. I need to
tell you I'm gay. And they'd go and I was
the secret, you're gay and you murdered somebody. It sounds
like it sounds like your father was very supportive of
(12:28):
He was supportive, and I just wonder, you know, I
just wonder what it would have been like. You know,
who knows he loved me, So I cannot imagine, you know,
someone who bought their three year old son of bride doll,
you know, being upset. You know, yeah, you're the one
that bought me the bride dog. You made me this
way more with the one and only Leslie Jordan's right
(12:52):
after this, Well, let's talk about so it's so fascinating
you grow up grow up in in Chattanooga and then
you go to ut Knoxville and you take an acting
class or you know, just kind of to fulfill some
(13:14):
kind of requirement. And then I know you said it
performing hit you like a drug. It was just I couldn't.
I wanted to be a journal journalist. I was a
journalism major, and I took intro to theater for from
my arts elective. And that afternoon I went to the
head of the department. I said, what do I this?
(13:35):
What what do I do? He said, well, first let's
learn how to pronounce he's because it was I was saying, uh, theater. Yeah,
I'm gonna get a green theater. He goes, it's theater.
I won't get me a degrade theater. And but but
(13:56):
you obviously fell in love with acting. Got on a
bus twelve hundred dollars that my mother sewed into my underpants.
I had no fear. I had no fear back then.
I just think back on it just makes me tired.
I got on a bus pinning my underpants, my degree
in theater, and a tiny suitcase, and I got off
(14:18):
at the corner of Hollywood and Vine, which so you're
twenty two years old at the time. No, I was
older than that by then, I think, yeah, and you
got there, you got to Hollywood, and I know your
mom said, if it doesn't work out, you can come home,
she said, and you'll have a standing ovation. That's so sweet.
(14:38):
And and so what was it like when you first
got to Hollywood trying to break into the business, because
you know, well, it was interesting because it was very
wink wink, because you would go out at night to
the gay bars and you would dance and this and that,
and you would see everybody would see producers, you would
see actors and this and that. But in the daytime,
(15:02):
you know, very wink wink, you know. And I had representation,
uh that were gay. My agent was gay. Everybody was gay.
They told me. Now. They would call me up and say, now, listen,
feed on the ground. Put your voice in your lower register.
You know, la la la, don't go in there. Take
(15:24):
it down, you know, take it down a not right.
I wore cowboy boots and I had a mustache. And
you're mazing you. My friend looked back, because who does
she think she's fooling? But that you also had you
(15:44):
struggled back in those days, Leslie, you had some pretty
dark days. You had problems with substance abuse, you ended
up in jail. Um, I mean, what do you think
major life unravel once you got to Hollywood. I don't know.
I just think I really I've I've always you know,
around the rooms of recovery, they talk of this gene,
(16:07):
you know, that addictive people have. And I think I
used to think, oh, bullshit, you're infantile. Is I'm just
need to grow up? No, there's something, as I see
it in my family, you know, with one twin who
who we've had the dark twin. You know, she's had props.
And I think I don't know, I don't know what
it was. I do think that once I got sober,
(16:30):
I was forty two years old, and I remember thinking,
my friends said to me, you're a and this is
a terrible thing to say, but he said, you're a
fag hating fag honey. And I said, what do you mean?
And he said, you you have so much self hatred,
you know. So a lot of that was internal homophobia,
(16:52):
That's just what it was. It was the shame, you know,
having been brought up in the church. Also, I've been
baptized forteen times. We're not gonna go down that road.
But anyway, but just accepting something that I knew, you know,
was me. I was born this way, and so anyway.
It took years and years and years of UM. I'm
(17:14):
glad I got into recovery because they you don't go
over your problems. You don't go under your problems. You
go through and and um, and you're doing well. Now.
I'll tell a really funny story that when I first
got into recovery, my spiritual advisor said, your greatest fearlessly
and fear is what drives us to drink and drug.
Your greatest fear is heterosexual men. I said, well, no, ship,
(17:38):
it wasn't exactly a picnic on the playground, you know.
And he said, well, I want you to join a
stag recovery group all men. And I said, I was
scared to death. I don't know why. So I went
and joined this recovery group. There were fifty of the
butchers men you've ever seen. And my, my, my buser
(18:02):
said I want you to walk right up to the
podium and I want you to tell them I am
scared to death of you man. And so right before
the meeting started I called him and I said, do
you think I should just tell him that I'm gay,
just right off the bat, he goes, Honey, you got
to walk to the podium. They're gonna know you. You
(18:31):
know what, what I think is so interested to that,
while you're in the throes of some of your really
tough days, you were ministering to to AIDS victims because
you were in California at the height of the crisis.
And I'm curious what motivated you to do that and
what you learned from that experience. You know what happened
(18:54):
was and it's it's when when the pandemic started, I
remember thinking of myself, I've been through this on some scale.
I kept thinking, and it hit me like ino, here
we were gay men were dropping like flies. We couldn't
get help from anyone. The government was not really helping us,
(19:15):
and we had I remember looking at one another and saying,
we're going to have to take care of our own.
And so all these you know, groups started, and UM,
I got very involved with an organization called Project night Light,
which was all we did was sit with men who
were in hospice near the end and UM and so
(19:40):
all of that was happening. On top of it was
a very tumultuous time. But I look back and I
don't I'm not. It wasn't a sad time for me.
You know, we galvanized. And I'm hoping kind of that
the same thing is going to happen as we come
through this pandemic, because what happened was after it was
all over the gay community, were we were strong, we
(20:01):
were more apt to reach out to one another, to
help another. We've all been through it together. I'm hoping
maybe with this pandemic that will come out the other
end and as because this doesn't know, you know, gay, straight, white,
black all over the world. You know, maybe we can
come through this and uh be kinder, you know, be
(20:24):
more willing to wouldn't that be nice? Then the pulpit.
I mean, you know, I write in my book about
how you know, first of all, your big break came
in Will and Grace when you played Beverly Leslie. And
it was a role originally for Joan Collins, but it
landed in your lap somehow, Leslie. I mean, and and
(20:47):
and I write a lot in my book about how
much change we've actually witnessed when it comes to gay rights.
You know, I covered Matthew Shepard, that darling boy who
was beaten to death and waoming, and talked about, you know,
all kinds of issues facing the gay community. Then I,
you know, fast forward seventeen years. I interviewed Jim oh
(21:09):
burgha fell, the plaintiff in the same sex marriage ruling
by the Supreme Court. And when you look at the
strides that have made been made and granted, not everywhere
in the country, but in general, do you feel heartened
by that? And and and did you ever think in
your lifetime, growing up as a little boy in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
(21:32):
that we would see a culture where there's much more acceptance.
I thought I was only queer on the planet. I
thought I was the only one. I mean, what would
I what would I know? I was in an elevator
in Denver one time and there was a lady, a
little lady there, and she said, I love your work.
I said, oh, thank you. You're not what really paying attention,
(21:53):
And she said, my name's Judy Shepard. And I burst
into tears, and we got off the elevator and talked
in depth about all that. But you know, to have
been on the forefront of all of this, you know,
um and I'm very proud. You know. Sometimes it's funny.
I saw two guys sitting side by side holding hands
(22:15):
not too long ago, and I walked by the table.
I said, I just love this. I said, I hope
you kids realize you know what we went through there,
like uh huh yeah anyway, And I thought, oh, I
don't want to be that one. You know that all
we red there the war. You have no idea. I
don't want to hear it. You know, they're gonna have
their own thing. And but you know, I'm proud. I'm
(22:37):
proud to have been a part of all that. We'll
be right back. You are got to have so much
going on, as you were talking about, You've got this
show with me, uh my embolic AND's just doing Jeopardy.
She's doing a great job to anything. And you've got
(23:00):
this country album, which was you you write, You recorded
these songs that you were mentioning with all these famous
country artists, and you look so cute in your outfit.
I wanted to show a video of you singing with
Vince Gill. I think we cued that up, and you
guys rolled that. You put my life We're going to
(23:26):
We's it's a holy oh great, you're just having a ball.
(23:50):
I am so it's so great. I mean, it's so
great to see you just being discovered by so many people,
and you're having so much fun less Lee doing all
these things. You wrote a book, You've got an album,
You've got this show. Do you sometimes say you want
to pinch yourself? Every night I lay in bed and
I just think, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And
(24:12):
you know this was I'm a Tennessee boy, so to
be doing the Rheyman, you know, the Rheyman Theater, it
was just beyond anything. Yes, I've got a new one.
I from doing the Rheman again on the of November,
(24:33):
and I've got a brand new outfit. Good Before we go,
we got a quick lightning round Leslie Jordan's Can we
do It? Okay, here we go. What's your favorite country
artists or who's your favorite country artist? Dolly Parton? Okay, okay, okay,
(24:54):
mine are the chicks. Okay? What is your what is
your favorite home cook meal? Uh, beef stew, my mother's
my mother's beef stew. Okay, I like a garden's chicken. Okay.
What's your go to karaoke song um um uh oh,
the one about I remember it all fancy. I remember
(25:16):
it all very well just because I know the words
with Rayba McIntyre. But say I was a big fan
of um Bobby Gentry, who wrote I remember it all
very well looking back as a summer returned eighteen. It's
a girl thing that any way, Mine is crazy by
Patsy k Oh. I love that. Okay, what's the What
(25:38):
would be your dream job if you weren't doing what
you're doing? Something to do with horses? Really? Yeah, I'm back.
I rode my whole life and I'm back riding sixty
six years old. And I went over to the Los
Angeles Equestrian Center and I said, um, and I just
walked into a barn. But it was a barn that
handles show horses. Saddle breads always rode like hunter jumpers.
(26:02):
But these you sit back and you look pretty, and
I'm gonna start showing horses. Are yes, good for you? Okay?
Mine would be cabaret singer. Okay, what's your happy place?
On ambient I read several awful things. I took a
(26:30):
n Ambian one time and I woke up and um,
I had ordered uh I had. I thought I got
too fat at Christmas and I had ordered a slim
fast and they sent me boxes of food for slim fasts,
and I had about I think there were sixty eight desserts,
and I took an Ambian and eight all sixty eight desserts.
(26:53):
You you that happens, you sleep, you eat, that can happen.
I'm not gonna do that again. Okay, um, all right,
what we got two more? What's your favorite movie? My
favorite movie is Coal Miner's Daughter. Oh I love that,
love that movie Space and Levon Ham was in it.
(27:14):
Who I've loved him with the anyway, Leavon Halm, y'all
know who that is. Some of Levon Halm played her
daddy in the movie. But he started a group called
the Band I pulled into Nasre. Just course that's Levon Ham.
Oh yeah, we of course, of course, alright, but night
(27:36):
they drove Old Dixie down. That's yeah, I loved him.
I didn't. I didn't understand who you're saying. Okay, and
what are you most excited about now that you're such
a big deal, Leslie Jordan's I think that I'm excited that. Um,
I'm at a place in my life. I'm sixty six
years old. I've pretty much accomplished what I set out
(27:56):
to do, and so everything it just seems like it's
gravy now. So I have no big thoughts, Oh I
want to do this, I want to do that. I've
done it all and so there's something you know, they
always tell you just live it one day at a time. Well, yeah,
that's not easy, but but I'm trying to do that
and you're just having fun. I'm having a ball. Well,
thank you for coming out, Leslie Jordan and pressing. Thank you,
(28:23):
Thank you, guys, guy, say thank you again to my
friend Leslie Jordan's And if you don't follow him already
on Instagram, well shit, what are you waiting for? He's
the Leslie Jordan's Next Question with Katie Kurik is a
(28:50):
production of My Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media. The
executive producers Army, Katie Couric, and Courtney Littz. The supervising
producer is Lauren Hansen, as associate producers Derek Clements and
Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrek Clements.
For more information about today's episode, or to sign up
for my morning newsletter wake Up Call. Go to Katie
(29:12):
correct dot com. You can also find me at Katie Currect,
on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more
podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Katie Couric
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