October 31, 2024 • 57 mins
In this sobering conversation, Katie Couric sits down with comedian Samantha Bee and political commentator Van Jones to unpack the turbulence surrounding the final days of the 2024 Presidential election. From campaign strategies to media responsibility, they explore how humor, outrage, and disinformation shape the home stretch.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cancer Straight Talk is a podcast for Memorial Sloan Kettering
Cancer Center where hosts doctor Diane Reedy Lagunas has intimate
conversations with patients and experts about topics like dating and sex,
exercise and diet, the power of gratitude, and more. I
love being her guest. Listen to Cancer Straight Talk. You'll
(00:20):
learn so much. Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this
is next question. Well, folks, we're taping this episode the
morning after a pretty shocking Trump rally that took place
at Madison Square Garden. The rhetoric was more inflammatory than
(00:43):
ever as if that's possible. My friend, comedian and cultural
commentator Sam b is here today. Is my plus one. Sam. Hi,
how are you? It's so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I swear to God, you know what, There's nowhere i'd
rather be than right here talking to you right now.
I'll tell you right.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh good lord. We have so much to talk about.
But first, how how have you been? I haven't seen
you in person for quite a while. I miss you
and your show, but you've been staying very busy, Sam,
tell us what you've been up to? Very busy?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I did I did a one woman show called How
to Survive a Mental pas, which I loved so much
and it was probably just like one of the most
fun creative experiences I've had in a really long time.
So I'm going to do it more. I just don't
know when. And I'm doing the Daily Beast podcast with
Joanna Coles, which is super fun. It's like a it's
(01:37):
a pretty great outfit and we get to like plunder
their reporting in a really fun way. It's been I
don't know, I'm just kind of going along for the ride.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And you're you're You're Canadian. You're in Toronto right now,
I am. Do you have you have Canadian citizenship? Have
you been thinking about that?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's I'm just lightly scoping out neighborhoods, you know what
I mean. Like, I'm not sure i'd go back to
the neighborhood where I grew up, but I'm just like,
that's interesting. Look at this delightful neighborhood with these coffee shops.
This is very lovable. People aren't at the absolute end
of their rope at all moments of the day and night.
(02:14):
It's an interesting vibe.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I know, well, you can't say that about this country,
right now you can kind of feel it in the air,
the anxiety, the trepidation, the sphincter tightening that is going on.
And whenever I can use the word sphincter, I like
to embrace that. And why I couldn't think of someone
who would be a better partner my plus one to
(02:40):
talk to one of my favorite people, Van Jones, about
what is happening right now in our country, because honestly,
I don't know what to make of it anymore. And
that's why Van is going to explain it all to us.
I think in many ways, Van Jones has been a
kind of north star during the course of this election,
(03:03):
although at times even his magnanimity that's a good word,
look it up has been tested. So how do we
get here? What does this say about us? Could Kamala
have done anything differently? And what about Trump's closing argument?
Van Jones? Welcome to Next Question with my co host
Samantha Bee.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Helloathan, Hello, been blessed to be a guest with sam
in the past, so it's good to be that.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's nice to see and of course she loved me too. Van,
can we please at that we.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, I mean that goes out. I think the global
love affair with Katie Kuric is unending and all inclusive always.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, all right, now you're going overboard. But thank you
for being here, and Gosh, Van, we have so much
to talk about. I saw you on Bill Maher on
Friday night. I watched it last night because I had
a wedding out of town and caught up with you there. Obviously,
I watch you on CNN and big fan, Van, big fan,
(04:06):
and you've.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Always been very kind and very encouraging. I sincerely appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Really well, let's talk about Gosh. I guess the latest
thing we need to talk about is what happened last
night right here in New York City, not far from
where I live at Madison Square Garden. Did you all
watch this rally? Did you see clips of it? And
(04:32):
what can I say? What did you think?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Look? You know I have a friend who I've been
talking with her earlier in the day, and you know,
she's she's frustrated with where the Democrats are a number
of her issues. She's quite progressive, and she was like,
I'm going to vote but and then I sent her
the clip of this horrible bigot making fun of Mexicans
(05:00):
is talking about. You know, they have so many babies
they have They never pull out. They always come inside
the same way that they came inside our country. Ha
ha ha. And when she heard the crowd, this massive crowd,
one of Trump's biggest crowd, laughing, laughing, laughing and making
fun of Mexican immigrants like her and Puerto Ricans, you know,
(05:22):
she immediately started sending it around to her family members
because like, this is a choice. You know, we have
as always imperfect, you know, Democratic candidates, except for Barack Obama,
they've all been imperfect. And then we have a literal
clown car fascist who was doing like racist insult comedy
(05:47):
eight days away from an election. You know, there's a
lot going on. Like I don't know if you guys
know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage
in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah, I
think it's called Puerto Rico. I don't get it. Like,
there's no if you need more information than that, And
there there was no rebuke. There's nobody to come out
(06:09):
and said that we don't believe in that. Well, no,
they love that. They are going to pull off the
biggest con ever, and that they're going to get black
some black people marginally more than what would have given
them a vote, and some Latin people to vote for
someone who is going to turn around and do a
massive crackdown on black and brown communities. Colm was trying
(06:30):
to lift people up. Trump wants to lock people up.
And you know that's where we are eight days out.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Sam as a comedian, Yeah, I had to ask you
about the quality of the humor. Obviously it was insulting,
but it wasn't even funny, you know what the.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Crazy the thing that is so I mean, everything about
it is so incredibly disheartening and I definitely watched it
sitting on those side just kind of just like just
like in a state of disbelief from like this is
who you you know this comedian like Tony Hunchcliff, Like
they hired him, they asked him to come and do this.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
They know by the way, Sam, it's like a he's like.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Very well known for like roasting people. He's like a
roast comic and he did you know he did one
that Tom Brady wrote like he does really like outrageous,
like like super just like hardcore, like pushing the boundaries
that's like his signature. That's his signature. If you've watched
one minute of his comedy, you know exactly what he's
(07:30):
all about. So having him come to a political rally
with tens of thousands of people there that's going to
be watched like nationwide, is on purpose. It's an on
purpose dog whistle. When you pay this person to come
and speak at your thing, you know what you're getting.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I wouldn't say it was a dog whistle, right, it
was just it's just like a right, just like.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
A blowhorn, Like you know, they all knew what was
going to happen, and unfortunately I just kind of go, wow,
that's so an intentional Like this is where your part is.
This is where you want people to vote for you,
but this is what this is what you have intentionally
put out in the world as a representative of you
(08:12):
and all the people that you stand for.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Like it's so awful.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I want to just I feel like I don't even know,
I don't even know what to do, and it's working
for them in a way because they're getting wall to
wall free press for it, and I'm like, wow, this
is like it's like Machiavellian. I'm like, I can't believe
that anyone could look at this person and think that
(08:35):
this crew of people could possibly be the president of
all Americans. Is so disgusting to me on such a
deep level, Like how dare you?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I think a lot of people, and we live in
like the United States of Amnesia, right, A lot of
people really have just kind of forgotten how bad it was,
you know, in during the years, and I think people
have I thinks a couple of these going on one
as people remember that they were good economic times, they
forget that that was the Obama economy that Trump inherited.
(09:09):
I mean Obama we had, we had seventy five straight
months of job growth under Obama. He handed that off
to Trump. It actually slowed down under Trump, but he
still had the good momentum from the Obama years. And
then he started chasing off all the good people around him,
and by the time he got to COVID, he was
(09:30):
down to not the B team, not the C team,
but the D team. He had taken Obama's playbook for
a pandemic and put in a garbage cant someplace, dismountled
that whole function in the federal government. So we had
a million, six hundred thousand extra Americans die because Trump
had a d team around him and they had thrown
(09:51):
away the eight teams playbook and didn't know what that
well he was doing. I was talking about injecting bleach.
So you had a worse economic performance under Trump. Only
thing that Trump did for the economy was cut tactics
for rich people. He didn't pass Obamacare, he didn't do
anything to help anybody, but he put his name on
stimulus checks, and so people think that Trump was for them.
(10:12):
So that was terrible. But then the thing that's even
more awful is it going forward? People say, well, it
wasn't so bad before. Democrats always scream hit, leer and racist.
I don't have to listen. I said, you know what, honestly,
you have a point. If you're a conservative. We said
Romney was unfit, we said we didn't like John McCain.
(10:33):
You have a point to say. They Democrats always attack
our nominee. And you might be rational and saying I'm
not going to listen to Democrats, but you should listen
to Republicans. You should listen to all the Republicans who
serve with them. Do just listen to all the generals
who serve with them, who are screaming and yelling and saying,
this guy is completely incompetent. You should listen to the
Supreme Court that says now Supreme that the president can
(10:55):
be lawless, which that was a restraint before. Now there's
no restraint from the Supreme You have people who are
Republicans saying he's a racist and a fascist, and you
will no longer have You won't even have the D team.
You're going to have the Z team around him in
the White House. This is this is a very very
serious threat that we're facing eighty days.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I want to know why you think people have amnesia.
I think you know what are the root causes and
the root reasons that you think people are gravitating to
Donald Trump and the race is so tight.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I think social media. I think there's a big campaign
from Russia, China and Roan to just discourage and distress progresses,
and so I think that's more effective than that. Honestly,
I think that RFK Junior supporting Trump has hurt us,
hurt progressive and helped Trump more than people really understand.
(11:57):
Because I do think that the make America healthy again Maha,
that slogan does appeal to some people in the yoga
and kil crowd and other people who.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
The wellness community.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Wellness community has been pulled very far to the right,
frankly objectively, in ways that I think people are not tracking.
So I do think that there's that, But but yeah,
I think people are hurting and uncertain. I think that
you know, it sucks to go at the grocery store
and have to take stuff out of your cart and
put it back on the shelf because you know, you're
(12:28):
watching those numbers go up in a way that's kind
of scary. I think. I think the economy managed a
lot of people, and you know, everything is twenty percent
more expected than it used to be. And now that
was a worldwide global phenomenon and we beat it back better,
faster and quicker than era. But people don't like that
kind of thing, and there's a lot of disinformation out
(12:49):
there too.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I was going to say, do you think that people
understand that Joe Biden. I mean, my husband and I
talk about this because he thinks that Joe Biden has
had impact on inflation. I say that it's sort of
a worldwide trend, as you do, Van, But were there
things that Joe Biden could have done to get prices
(13:12):
down at the grocery store. Was flooding the economy with
all the COVID money was flooding, you know, with adding
to the deficit with student loan forgiveness. I'm not the
economy is not my strong suit. But were there things
that were initiated by the Biden administration are not done
that have led voters to feel that he could have
(13:38):
had a bigger impact on these things?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Well? Look, possibly, though it's hard to tell. Look, and
there were people the works of economists warning you might
be putting too much gas on the fire by doing
some of the investments and other things that needed to
get done. But you know what, I think what people
forget is a lot of that spending you know that
Biden and Harris did on infrastructure. It's still that's that's
(14:07):
long term, that's not it's not like they just poured
it all on the streets. Everybody went and grabbed it
and like started buying cotton candy. Like long term investments
in the country payoff over a long period of time,
they also hit the economy over a long period of time.
So look, I think you have to just look at
the comparison. We got an inflation down faster than everybody
(14:28):
else around the world. It was a global problem. There
were two things happening. You had the supply chains that
had been you know, backed up, and demand that it
had been held up because of the COVID pandemic globally,
and so you know, once everything opened back up, prices
went through the roof around the world. And you know,
(14:48):
some of biden palsy frankly smart mantary policy from the Fed,
which Biden had done the doing, also finally beat it
back down. But you know, you're still up above where
you used to be. I think the thing people don't
think about enough is Okay, I'm mad about inflation and
prices today. So I'm going to vote for Donald Trump,
who is going to make it all massively worse because
(15:09):
both of his big ideas are inflationary. His big idea
of putting your riffs on everything is going to drive
up prices, and so you're either going to have to
pay buy more expensive stuff overseas or largely more expensive
stuff from American producers. You might say that's great for
long term you know, reshoring, but short term prices are
going to go through the roof. And the other thing
(15:31):
is grab all the immigrants thrown out of the country,
which is then going to create a labor shortage, is
going to drive up the price of labor, which is
also inflationary. His two big ideas. If you don't like prices,
now vote for this guy. He is Captain inflation. He
is mister Inflation. He is the father of inflation. That's
what you're dealing with with Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, and it's not even just just amnesia, because it's
also like disinformation campaigns like that are just hugging for force.
It's like, you know, there's a proportion of the American
electorate who thinks that Joe Biden dismantled Roby Waite and
you just kind of go what and what now? And
it's a large proportion.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's not it's not tiny. I wanted to ask both
of you, I mean, do you think the Democrats van
are talking enough about these two highly inflationary policy proposals,
i e. Tariffs and the Great Deportation And what the
impact is really going to be. Why isn't that registering?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
You know, I just don't know. I think the blizzard
of bs that you have to go with every day
from the joke. Yet, Babe, I mean, by the time
you get finished talking about Arnold Palmer's penis and you
know that's just clown joke. I mean it's so hard.
I mean, that's part of the strategy. I guess it
just to put just that a blizzard of bs. And
(16:57):
it's hard to disappoint out basic stuff. Donald Trump will
make inflation worse by throwing out immigrants. It's hard. The
other thing, it's hard, you know, thinking about this over
the weekend with black men. Donald Trump literally has on
his own agenda, not you know, part of twenty twenty
five Donald Trumps that's not mine. Well, you know, Donald
(17:18):
Trump never lies, it's always very honest. So we said
this not is I have to agree with that. But
Donald Trump's actual agenda forty seven is all about attacking
black men. It's literally, we're going to bring back stopping frisk.
We're going to have the Feds put anybody who's involved
in any sort of like street level pity crime put
(17:39):
them in federal prison. Like it's an amazing you could
not come up with a more terrifying agenda for black men.
But you know this, you know the Trump crackdown on
black men, which he's promising, we haven't really been able
to get ourselves to talk about in clear terms.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
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(18:30):
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and every episode of Cancer Straight Talk. Isn't the problem
(18:59):
that people who are supporting Donald Trump are not listening
to anything that is trying to convince them otherwise? On
Fox and Friends this morning, apparently I didn't see it,
but reportedly they were gushing over the Madison Square Garden event.
Right Wing media in general is not analyzing Trump's policies,
(19:25):
so people are getting, you know, a very distinct brand
of news and information that is staying in its lane.
It's pro Trump. Don't criticize Trump lane. In fact, criticize
obviously Harris till the cows come home. And you know,
(19:46):
by the way, one could argue that the other networks
and media outlets do the same to Trump, and I
don't think you can compare the two. We can talk
about that in a moment. But they're not hearing these
things about tariffs, and that's what they're listening to. Twenty
four to seven.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah, well, look, you know, you know, you do have
people who are like really brought into like you know,
Trump media, and you have people who by other media.
It's the people in the middle who are really just
not tuned in that much at all. Those are good
people who decide the election. It's the independent and swing
voters in swing counties and swing states, and those people.
(20:24):
That's why do you see Donald Trump going on too
all these podcasts, all these quote unquote bro podcasts, because
that's where a bunch of people who are not watching
Bots and Friends, who aren't listening to Rachel Bado, who
are just that's all, that's that's what they're their kind
of corny cousin or their crazy uncle does. They're interested
in sports and other things. He's going after those people,
(20:44):
I think very well, and trying to get these you know,
these guys to come out and vote. It's very, very
hard to communicate in this environment. And I think that
that's everybody wakes up in the morning, an environment where
there's an algorithm. Your next door neighbor is looking at
their phone at the same time you're looking at your phone,
and they are seeing completely different things. It's not to
(21:06):
say that yours is right and there's is wrong. Maybe
their's is right and yours is wrong. It's just to
say that it's completely different. And so when you go
out to check your mail box and she goes out
to check her mail box, you're literally living in a different,
algorithmically created world that she didn't pick constantly for herself,
and you didn't pick constantly for yourself. And so that's
one reason why I really focus on kindness, civility, empathy.
(21:34):
We're all at the effect of something that we didn't
create or choose. Four years ago. You clicked on something
about Hillary Clinton, or you clicked on something about you know,
some issue in the environment, and that is still informing
what your algorithm is giving you. Your next door neighbor
clicked on something maybe anaquis about, you know, buying a gun,
(21:55):
and that is now informing four years later what she's
seeing in her algorithm. Then come out and say you're
an idiot, you're a cult member, you're crazy. The whole
last second, everybody's slow down. Now, somebody, not me and
not you, is creating this division for their own purposes,
and so mentally, can we be kind? And that's you know,
I try to focus on that and try to remind
(22:15):
myself that none of us chose this crazy, dystopian disinformation
reality that we're living in, and none of I's got
to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay, mister Rogers, So you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I mean I I aspire to that too. But I
guess one question, and Sam, I'm curious how you feel
about this? You know, how do you cover Trump? The
media has gotten, you know, tied itself in knots. How
you cover this guy? And I think they're still trying
to figure it out eight years later. Van, you know,
(22:54):
Jeff Zucker got trash for covering all his rallies without
any kind of critical commentary. A company them because they
rated well, right, and now.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You have just in just defense. We were criticizing it
the whole time, but it turns out just the overall
effect of covering it that much, covering even empty podiums,
had a positive effect, even though the whole time we
were I was on the air that during those years
we criticized it, but we also just showed it so
much that it wound up backfiring very much, very much.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, I still think we have not like we have
not figured it out. No one has figured it out
because it is so outrageous, Like last night's rally is
so outrageous, and he's just getting like volumes just like
you know, uh Kamala has like raised a billion dollars,
but he's got a billion dollars in free advertising that's
(23:43):
occurring today. Like the more you know, I have good
friends in the advertising industry who are like, it's all
about brand. The only thing that matters is brand awareness.
It's not even like really what the brand is doing.
It's brand awareness. So you want to be like pushing
the brand again and again and again and so that
it's the last thing you think of when you're in
that voting booth, and that's what's happening, and it's happening
(24:05):
for free today. It's just everywhere. We're talking about it
right now, because how can you not talk about it?
But I don't think we're talking about it. I think
we're talking about it in a horrified way. I mean,
we're horrified, but we're so think that that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You can't tell me that that rally at Madison Square
Garden helped him van you know, to interviewed Tara Palmery,
maybe it helped solidify his base and he was throwing
red meat out to them. But he certainly, as she said,
elections are about addition, not subtraction. And if you're going
(24:40):
to alienate Puerto Ricans, right, four hundred and fifty thousand
Puerto Ricans are eligible to vote in Pennsylvania. Did you
know that.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I didn't know that number. I'm happy to hear that number.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
There's a huge population of Puerto Ricans. Like, why would
you invite a guy who's going to trash people? Why
would you say you want to bring back the Alien
and Sedition Acts of seventeen ninety eight, which gave the
president the power to deport non citizens who were subjects
of foreign enemies, gave the president the power to deport
(25:15):
any alien he considered dangerous, and the Sedition Act, if
we need to be reminded, made it a crime to
write or publish anything quote, false, scandalous and malicious about
the government or the president.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, I hate to drop this right in the middle
of this chat, but this election is close. So actually
it works really well, Like it actually works really well,
because if it didn't work, this election would be like
a shoeing for Carmel Herro's. But it really super works.
And that is my honest feeling.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
What works. What are you saying? This campaign strategy works.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
To be this outrageous, It works to have that comedian
on that stage being so repulsive, like being actually being
repugnant actually really works for them.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And like I don't know what to say.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
The other thing that it does is, which is even
more troubling and more reasons for people who are listening
to you get involved and to make sure that everybody
bothes and trusts, get their friends to vote, and make
sure that when you vote, triple it, make sure you're
three other people are voting. Is because if he wins
with this, he's got a permission structure now to do
whatever he wants. If you can be this badly behaved
(26:32):
before you're the president, if you can tell people, and
by the way, notice he will say things like I'm
going to lock up all my opponents, I'm going to
lock up Nancy Pelosi, I'm going to do all these things,
and then all the Republican apologies come out and say
he doesn't mean that, he's just speaking in hyperperly. And
then the next day he says, no, no, no, no,
I meant what I said, like he's literally will tell
(26:54):
that the next interviewer. Well, everybody said he didn't mean it.
No I meant it. So here's the thing. If you
get elected with that, you can say, with some justification,
I have a mandate to lock up all my opponents.
I told you I was going to do it, and
you left it me. I have a mandate to crack
down on all of these communities because I told you
I was going to deport all these people, and you
(27:16):
elect me. So it is unfortunately very effective, but it
also should be galvanizing on our side. And I think
that for people who believe in democracy, for people who
believe in human rights, people who believe in the Constitution.
This should be galvanizing on our side. We shouldn't be like, yeah,
well I don't like what Kamala said twenty years ago,
or I don't like her foreign policy on this thing,
(27:37):
or I don't like so therefore I'm going to vote,
but I'm going to be sad about it. Look, you
should vote and be passionate about it, because not only
does Kamala actually have plans that will actually help you,
like help you get a house, help you get an apprenticeship,
help you start a small business, actual plans. With Donald
trup has never passed a plan to help you. His
(27:58):
only economic adgeda to was passing the tax clubs for
his friends. He's never passed a bill to help ordinary Americans.
Kalma has a stack of those bills ready to sign.
And so, if you care about the future, if you
don't want more inflation, if you do want help getting
for your kid to buy a house, if you want
to start a business, there's only one candidate for you,
(28:20):
and you should be passionate about it. You should be
texting everyone you know about it. We lost Florida in
year two thousand by five hundred and thirty seven votes.
There were almost what one hundred and fifty million votes cast.
It came down to five hundred and thirty seven votes
in Florida plus five boats in Supreme Court. But that's
another story.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And well a lot of hanging chats and votes that
got thrown away, right sure, sure, but they start every
morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating pop culture,
I mean likes.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So everyone should be passionate about saying I don't care
what you say about any of the deficiencies of Kamala Harris.
You know, Donald Trump gets to be lawless, Kamala has
to be flawless.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yes, a lot of people have been commenting that on
my Instagram.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And you know, social media does a great job of reinforcing.
If you click like on somebody who's grumpy about, you know,
any issue, you'll get nine hundred more of those next tomorrow,
and so it will reinforce whatever grumpiness, whatever unhappiness, whatever dispepsia,
(29:33):
they will be reinforced. And then if you click or
like or share or comment I want, then you'll get
nine thousand the next day. And so that's why everybody's
so depressed. I'm not on social media, so you know,
and I've got a good therapist, so I'm not depressed.
But everybody that I know is, you know, miserable. And
I'm like, honestly, your life is pretty good. You live
in the United States. People are like, well, all these
(29:55):
people with all this privilege, you know, the most privileged,
every American citizen. There's never been a more privileged people.
I don't care if you're black, white, brow, There's never
been a more privileged people of people that live in
the United States. Today. We have clean near clean war.
I mean, we have our problems, but we are in
a great position. Everybody's miserable. Why because these things do
(30:18):
not give us information.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
They give you affirmation. That's my famous line that I
co opted from my friend Nicole Seligman. Affirmation not information.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I like that. And if you happen to have a
bad day today, you'll have a worse day tomorrow because
whatever you're clicking and liking, that's what it gives you
more of. And so yeah, people are you know, the
people are unhappy. And so that's why it's rationally a
change election. People do want change. The problem is that
(30:50):
you know, you said, well, okay, I'm going to vote
for change. I'm going to vote to change political parties. No, honey,
no sir, no man. The worst thing you could do
right now is to say we're going to put the
car in reverse and go back to this clown car
administration that boshed COVID, that you know, ruined the Obama economy,
(31:13):
that you have an extra six hundred thousand dead people
because this guy didn't know what he was doing, and
he's more disinhibited now. He's crazier now. The Supreme Court
s is he can do more damage now his team
is worse now. That is not the change that you want.
You want the change that Kam was talking about, which
is to build on the progress Limiteda has been with
(31:33):
Biden and get you more of what you need. That's
Kama Harris.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
At least want someone in the White House who you
can have a conversation with, who you can move, who
you can like, you can push in a direction that
you care about. You just want some You want a
coherent voice, like minimally you want a coherent voice in
the White House? Please can we please have that?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
But Van, you know you talk about building on the
Biden administration for reasons I guess you know again, food prices,
gas prices, housing prices. Whether he's to blame or not,
but it happened during his administration. He is incredibly unpopular,
(32:16):
and Kamala Harris I don't think has done a very
good job. She started to of separating and saying what
she would do differently than Joe Biden? And what do
you think of that? Could she have said, listen, I'm
proud of this, but or we could have done this better.
(32:37):
Why is she so cautious about saying how she might
approach some problems differently than an incredibly unpopular incumbent.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I hate to say this because it's going to sound Look,
Kamala Harris is a loyal person. That is very It
might sound corny. She's she's not going to take out
her knife and start stabbing somebody in the back to
(33:12):
advance herself. People think that the opposite about Comma said, Oh,
she's Matchiavella. She's this, she's at you know, she's tough minded,
she's a she's a super practice is she's not She's
not California progressive. I'll tell you that's a California. She's
never in the progressive camp at all, as you know.
But I think that she has a reluctance to say
(33:36):
we fucked this up, we fucked that. I don't I
don't think she believes it. But also don't think that
she is that type of a person. And so I
think that I would have preferred if I were if
I were her, I would have preferred for her to say,
you know what, Joe Biden's a hell of a man.
He's done a hell of the job. But everybody has
been the number two and had other ideas. I've been
number two. I had other ideas. Here's what I wanted
(33:56):
to do. But I know no calm for thirty years.
She cannot fix her mouth to say something like that.
She just can't do it. And so if it's a
character flaw that costs her the election, and that character
flaw is just too much loyalty to people who gave
her a shot, I just I just think you got
to eat the whole hamburger will come here. She's not
(34:16):
that kind of person. She is not that kind of politicans.
I don't think she believes it. I think that she
honestly believes that they did a better job than they
get credit for. I think she does have critiques and
criticisms of him. But I don't think that she feels
comfortable doing that in public. And that's just the reality
of it.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And also in a very truncated campaign, like it's not
you know, when you have like a very narrow window
to like come in, take over, take over the whole campaign.
You are driving, you are driving to election day. You
really do not have time or you don't have like
(34:52):
the grace of the public to go sinkly need some
mistakes here, you just don't those. It is not the
time to like look back, like and go I think
we failed on this measure.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I think you need to do.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I think she is just driving the most forward the
best she.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Can, like go for it.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I just want to say, as a political guy, I
agree with Katie that it had been politically smarter and
better for her to find a couple of things to say. Look,
I wish we had done this earlier. I whish we
had done this all. Here's what I learned when I
came in. It's unfracking, very easy on fracking. So you
know what, as a California Democrat and you know, we
(35:32):
were very anti fracking, and I came out of that.
But like a lot of California like a lot of Democrats.
But here's what I learned in office. I learned, first
of all, you can have fracking and also do the
clean energy agenda. But much more importantly, I learned that
we needed that natural gas we were fracking in Pennsylvania
to beat Putin. Putin when I came into office, Putin
(35:53):
started threatening Europe. He was going to cut off natural
gas and freeze Europeans in their beds because we wanted
to defend Ukraine. And I learned we needed that natural
gas coming out of Pennsylvania fracking to stop Putent fracking
as a part of my geopolitical arsenal to defend democracy.
And I would never write, so didn't you tell you that?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I haven't heard her say any of that. I heard
her say the first part. I heard her say, you
can have clean energy and be involved in fracking. That
her views have evolved, But what has been sometimes missing
I think for some voters Van and Sam is sort
of that second or third sentence to help people understand
(36:34):
a little bit more than kind of one or two
sentences that kind of give the general idea. And I'm like,
when you're asked about the Supreme Court as she was
in that CNN town hall. I interviewed Neil Katilla in
front of his law firm and a bunch of clients. Now,
he's brilliant, right, he's a constitutional law professor. I mean,
the guy's brain is unparalleled. And he was talking about
(36:58):
the pros and cons of expanding this Supreme Court and
of term limits from a historical perspective. And I don't
expect her to say that, but I want a little
bit more meat on the bone van If not so
much for me, but for listeners. I want her to say,
you know what, I want to look into this. There's
some pros to that, there's some cons. But one thing
(37:18):
I do think is absolutely necessary is a code of
ethics for Supreme Court justices who have clearly exhibited a
conflict of interests on several occasions over the past two years.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I think when you've got a candidate on the other
side who's like people are ripping the heads off cats
and dogs in the street, You're just like, let me
just hold on everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, I guess. I guess we treat her as a
normal candidate and we want, you know, and we tolerate
him as an abnormal candidate. And so is that unfair
in your view?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I think at one hundred percent unfair. But I also
think that I understand what Sam is saying. She's saying, listen,
she's already pulled off eight hundred miracles, right, like to
take over a campaign one hundred days of colection day,
to hold this party together, to get the Chenese and
Chompsky on the same bus, to keep driving it forward,
to be able to have to switch out some of
(38:14):
the campaigns the up, but you can't switch out all
of it because you don't have a beat. Like, So
I agree, it's like she's pulled out eight hundred and
fifty miracles already and we should just give her our applause.
And I also feel that for whatever reason, she has
locked in on the strategy of just saying the same
thing every time, And even Charlamagne and God said, you know,
you just sound like a robot, and she goes, that's
(38:35):
called discipline, ha ha ha. But I do think that
given the voters we're trying to move, who you know,
they can't. You can't be more appauled by Donald Trump
and they still haven't moved. And you can't be more
impressed by her resume, and they still haven't moved. What
do they need to hear? I do think they need
to hear something else. There's something that she's not doing.
(38:56):
And so look, I would say I'd love that answer,
and Supreme Court, I love my instrument tracking. We can
all answers, but we're eight days out, and so the
thing I would say is whatever you need to say
to your own friends, because again, five hundred and thirty
seven votes, whatever you like, Tom's not going to talk
to your friends. She's going to be on a stage,
She's going to be interviewing. You get to talk to
(39:18):
your friends. You have your Facebook followers, you have your
Instagram followers, you have your WhatsApp chat groups, You've got
your and you should just say, I am now the
common haras campaign manager, and I am fortually myself going
to make the arguments that I think are a ballad
to my friends and be aggressive about it and be
passionate about it. Donald Trump closes strong. He always closes strong.
(39:40):
He's going to have even more devastating campaign ads to
come out. He's going he always closes strong. And so
if you if you to Sam's point, if you can
appreciate that if you had to run for president one
hundred days from now, how hard it would be for you.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, Like, I feel so cynical for being a person
who's like, actually, I think there's no almost no room
for a nuance.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It's just like everything.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Anytime she dips into a nuance, I think she risks
a larger swath of the population. I think it's all
about risk management, keeping steady, get into the ellipse, giving
delivering that like heavy hammer. Like, I just don't I
feel I totally understand and appreciate what you're saying. I'm
(40:24):
just not sure that the nuance is going to move people.
I literally think it could be like a coupon per
a sandwich on the way into the voting booth.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
It's gonna move from up.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
No one's doing that. That's not legal, But I do
think a coupon for a Quiznos might actually seal the deal.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's buddy.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
If you want to get smarter every morning with a
breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com before
(41:10):
we go. I want to ask you all about the kerfuffle.
It's not actually bigger than a kerfuffle. I would say
it's a full out brewhaha over the La Times and
the Washington Post failure to endorse a candidate. You know,
I'm surprised that there are many people who don't understand
or appreciate, or maybe it's outlived its usefulness, the separation
(41:34):
from an editorial board and the rest of the paper.
And I do think I was talking to Nancy Gibbs,
who was at a wedding I was at former editor
in chief of Time, now teaches public policy at Harvard.
You know that when Ruth Marcus the Washington Coast says
an endorsement represents the heart and soul of the newspaper,
(41:54):
that's a little misleading for readers. It's really the editorial
board and it's a separate entity. But I'm curious for
you both to weigh in on these two major newspapers
at the behest of their billionaire owners, deciding not to
endorse a candidate.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah. I don't love it. I don't like it. I
do think I think can subtle and not so subtle
ways people are preparing for a Trump presidency, and I
don't like to see it. I don't like to see
it on Wall Street, and I don't like to see
it in I guess it feels to me like democracy
is signed darkness, like what the editorial I don't think
(42:37):
that the editorial board has outlived its usefulness. I think
they should have done it, and I'm really dismayed, like
really disheartened that they weren't doing it.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I don't know that it moves people, but yeah, it
should exist. What do you think, Van, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Think I think newspapers don't matter as much as they
used to, but they still matter. And I think thateople
don't understand the editorial board. You know, you can you
can have an opinion about a candidate and still have
the The other on the other side of the wall
often literally are the reporters, and they can still do
fair reporting. So we've kind of known that for one
hundred fifty years in the United States. So I would
(43:16):
much rather them the way in. I don't think ten
years from now, if we have very bad outcomes from
the Trump presidency, anybody's going to be proud that they
stood on the sidelines. I think that people should think
I think that I think that people should take to
take a sting one way or the other. I agree
with you, I don't. I don't think you carvery yourself
in glory if one hundred years from now or ten
(43:38):
years from now, you wouldn't register an opinion about what's coming.
And by the way, and I say this, no matter
what your what your view is. If your view is
that you know Kama Harris has just not met your bar,
and if your view is that you think that the
economy would be in better hands with Donald Trump, that
would be interesting to know. Like whatever it is, I'm
(43:59):
just saying, I'm I'm not saying it's got to be
for comment, it's got to be for Trump. But I
think that we don't want our institutions to be We
don't want our few remaining institutions to not offer their
honest opinion at a time of great consequence.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, now is the time to plant a flag one.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Way or the other. I mean, jin maybe there's something
I haven't heard.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
I think it's also a little ironic that Trump administration
or Trump officials were visiting Blue Origin when this decision
was made by Jeff Bezos. It just seems really yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Look, I know Jeff Bezos. I'm quite fond of him.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Oh yeah, he gave you a lot of money to
give away, like one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Right exactly. I know Jeff Bezos, I'm quite fond of him.
I've not talked to him about this. I don't know.
I literally Kim Kardashian's a good friend of mine. Jeff
Bezos friend of mine. I discount ninety eight percent of
what good said about them in public because it's almost
always not right. So I do not know what decision
making was, but I would just say, as a matter
of principle, I would say this too, or about anyone,
(45:09):
this is not the time to be quiet. I think
people should put their best thinking forward so that we
can make informed decisions.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
When this episode drops, the election will be less than
a week away. What do you think is going to happen? Man?
Speaker 3 (45:24):
You know, I think it's going to be house to
house combat. I think it's going to come down to
I think this will be the closest I think it's
going to be one of the closest elections in American history.
But I'll tell you it's in the hands of the
people who are listening. I mean, we can all sit
here and write speeches for everybody and that sort of stuff.
They ain't got to read those speeches. You can write
(45:46):
a text message, it's going to be read. You can
make a phone call, it's going to be heard. It
will come more than anything else. What I would say is,
you don't want to be sitting there, whoever you're for
sitting there election, I would saying I wish I had
done one thing more the next several days. You should
put every arrow in the air. You should do everything
you possibly can. You know, if you've never done a
(46:07):
video selfie on your social media, do it because that
might move three votes. You have no idea the impact
you can have. So sometimes people put stuff up and
it goes mega viral and changes the whole conversation. So
I think that it is in the hands of ordinary
people at this point, every day people at this point,
especially in the seven battleground states. And if you don't know,
(46:28):
if you live in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, Arizona,
or Nevada, your vote matters more than anybody else's vote
in the country those seven states. If you live in
those states, your vote is one hundred votes. If you
live in those states, your vote is a thousand votes.
Your vote counts more than all the rest of our
votes combined, because those are the seven states that will
(46:50):
determine this election. So if you live in those seven
battot ground states, you have a responsibility to vote whichever
way you feel, and you will have a bigger impact
on the election those states and any of us talking
about it, I.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Think we're going to know the night of no.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Well, I don't think so, And I think we should
remind everyone we know that you don't have to tell
anybody how you voted in that voting booth. You don't
have to tell a damn soul. You don't have to
vote one way just because your parents did and your
grandparents did, and your husband told you that you had to,
or your wife thought that that would be a good
idea for you. You can tell anybody anything you want,
(47:25):
and you can vote with your conscience, But for what
do you know it's right?
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I thought Michelle Obama's speech is great emphasize that, yeah,
we have to use.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Our voices to make these choices clear to the men
that we love our lives are worth more than their
anger and disappointment. And we are more than just baby
making vessels. And if you are a woman who lives
(48:05):
in a household of men that don't listen to you
or value your opinion, just remember that your vote is
a private matter, regardless of the political views of your partner.
You get to choose, You get to use your judgment
and cast your vote for yourself and the women in
(48:27):
your life. Remember, women standing up for what is best
for us can make the difference in this election. So
let us use our voices in these final days.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
That was a pretty powerful speech to anythink fan.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Migielle Obama may be the best communicator in the English
language right now. I mean, she is so good. Always
say I love Obama and her husband. I mean, she's
just a believable and and I thought she did a
great job of pointing out to men what it's like
(49:06):
to be a man when you're you're the woman that
you care about your partner, your daughter is in medical
distress and you can't and she's bleeding out, and the
doctors are standing there looking at her, afraid that they
help your You love the one they've got to go
to prison and really just letting people bleed out of
parking lots, as a as a man, as a as
(49:26):
someone who wants to be able to protect the people
that you love, what does it mean?
Speaker 2 (49:32):
And also the message of like it takes two people
to make an unplanned pregnancy, do you want to be
able to do something about that?
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Or do you not?
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Like you have skin in the game, you're part of this,
being a part of it.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I thought Michelle did just an unbelievable job, as she
always does, and she makes it look so easy. It's
very difficult to do what she does. Like, that's the
arguments that she makes, the way that she makes them.
Who she's being when she's making them might just sing
Michelle Obama as a national trend.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I also had a little bit of a cold, I
could tell.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
So, yeah, got your nose, she pulled it off. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Do you think the Democratic Party needs to retool? My
husband John says things like, how this election is so close,
what does it say about the Democratic Party? And I'm
curious what you think it says about the Democratic Party?
Has it lost its way? Has it lost its mojo?
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Look, I am very I'm always willing to look in
the mirror, Like, if something goes wrong in my life,
the easy thing to do is to say that person sucks,
and that person sucks, the other person sucks, and why
do they do that? The harder thing to do is say,
you know what, what did I do to create this situation?
Even if it's nine nine percent of the other person's fault,
I looked for my one percent. And so I am
(50:49):
not trying to let literal fascists off the hook. That
is its own thing. But is there anything I can
look at on our side?
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, I think like a stuff on our side. I
think we we have created a style on the progressive
left that is that's obnoxious and that makes people feel
uncomfortable and unwelcome. Too often. I mean we change terms
every six months. Somebody said I was a BIPOCK. I said,
what is the I've never gone to a BIPOC church
(51:21):
or a bi I've never eaten any BIPOC food, Like,
is there a BIPOC barber shop? What are you talking about?
Latin X. You make up these terms and then people
feel dumb because they don't know them. And then I
think we also have created a situation where we think
that Trump is pulling people. I think we're pushing people,
you know, I said, I'm Bill Maher. If we if
(51:41):
we have a party where we say all white people
are racist, all of you you're all racist, All men
are toxic, all billionaires are evil, well then you can't
be mad when white male billionaires like Elon Musk leave
our party. Elon Musk was a Democrat supporting Andrew Yang
four years ago. Now he is on some crazy look.
I don't I don't let him off the hook. He
(52:02):
has a responsibility to defend democracy not undermined. But is
there a one percent where if he if someone like
him comes into the room, if a straight white male
comes into the room, if if someone who is Jewish
and who is pro Israel coming to the room, are
they welcome or not? Do we want them or not.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
I have a friend who's covering the Trump campaign and
I asked her about Trump supporters and she said, in
her view, a lot of it has to do with
quote lefty lecture culture. I thought that was a very
interesting observation, and I think it basically encompasses, man, what
you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
And after the election, I think we should do a
whole analysis of it. But until the election. Whatever sins
and flaws we have are literally nothing compared to a
overtly racist, overtly fascist, overtly raitorian mass phenomenon that is
about to not only ruin America if it wins, but
(53:05):
also abandoned people in Ukraine and also make sure we
don't fix the climate crisis. So I am not trying
to take any of the the foot off the gas.
But after the selection, can we say the same things
more kindly? Yes? Can we defend African Americans, Latinos, latinas
poor folks, the environment more kindly, more wisely, more empathetically.
(53:28):
Can we be more magnetic?
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yes we can, and perhaps be less judgmental and self
righteous I don't know.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Less judgy and shitty toward people, Yes, that's not Can
we improve yes? Can we be more magnetic and welcoming? Yes?
Should we be? Yes? After we win this selection?
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Van Jones, thank you, Van all right, thank you, Talk
to you soon. Sam. Yes, I really like Van Jones.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
I like them too, talk to them. They are arenas
and I always enjoy I always enjoy his perspective. He's great.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
What do you think about those closing remarks about the
Democratic Party.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
People just want to be governed from the middle. They
just want to be governed from the middle. They just
seem to, like the majority of the country lives pretty
much in the middle zone, and they just want a
steady hand. They want things that are like actually more
simple than sometimes we make them.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
I can agree with that. Who do you think is
going to win? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I don't want to manifest. I don't want to I
don't want to manifest a big, bad problem. But I
will say that I think it's going to be extremely
close and a squeaker, and that is so distressing. So
I don't know either way. But I do have a
sick feeling in my stomach that there's a you know,
there's a chance we could have a repeat of twenty
(54:56):
sixteen and Amlowen's popular vote a wide margin, but those
electoral colleges barry pesky. So I don't really know. I
think anything is possible. I don't know that one is
more probable than the other. And that is extremely distressing,
and that I think necessitates like a real reckoning, like
(55:21):
who actually are we here? Regardless of who wins, who
actually are we That this is a squeaker. It's absolutely
it's absolutely awful.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Well, I have to say on that positive note, Sam,
thanks so much for being with me today and to
be continued. Hang in there, Hang in there.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Stay strong, drive people to the Owling station.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
a subject you want us to cover, or you want
to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy
world reach out. You can leave a short message at
six h nine five P one two five five five,
or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I
would love to hear from you. Next Question is a
(56:18):
production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers
are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer
is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and
Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
(56:39):
newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the
podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You
can also find me on Instagram and all my social
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app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(57:00):
I want to tell you all about the Cancer Straight
Talk podcast from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center with MSK
oncologist doctor Diane Reedy Lagunis. I was a guest and
we had a totally candid conversation about my family's experiences
with cancer, including my husband Jay's illness, my own treatment
for breast cancer, and of course, the time I got
(57:21):
that kolonaskby on National TV. Cancer straight Talk features life
affirming conversations with experts and patients alike about topics affecting
everyone touched by cancer. If that includes you or someone
you love, I hope you'll listen to my episode and
every episode of Cancer Straight Talk
Cancer Straight Talk is a podcast for Memorial Sloan Kettering
Cancer Center where hosts doctor Diane Reedy Lagunas has intimate
conversations with patients and experts about topics like dating and sex,
exercise and diet, the power of gratitude, and more. I
love being her guest. Listen to Cancer Straight Talk. You'll
(00:20):
learn so much. Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this
is next question. Well, folks, we're taping this episode the
morning after a pretty shocking Trump rally that took place
at Madison Square Garden. The rhetoric was more inflammatory than
(00:43):
ever as if that's possible. My friend, comedian and cultural
commentator Sam b is here today. Is my plus one. Sam. Hi,
how are you? It's so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I swear to God, you know what, There's nowhere i'd
rather be than right here talking to you right now.
I'll tell you right.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh good lord. We have so much to talk about.
But first, how how have you been? I haven't seen
you in person for quite a while. I miss you
and your show, but you've been staying very busy, Sam,
tell us what you've been up to? Very busy?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I did I did a one woman show called How
to Survive a Mental pas, which I loved so much
and it was probably just like one of the most
fun creative experiences I've had in a really long time.
So I'm going to do it more. I just don't
know when. And I'm doing the Daily Beast podcast with
Joanna Coles, which is super fun. It's like a it's
(01:37):
a pretty great outfit and we get to like plunder
their reporting in a really fun way. It's been I
don't know, I'm just kind of going along for the ride.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And you're you're You're Canadian. You're in Toronto right now,
I am. Do you have you have Canadian citizenship? Have
you been thinking about that?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's I'm just lightly scoping out neighborhoods, you know what
I mean. Like, I'm not sure i'd go back to
the neighborhood where I grew up, but I'm just like,
that's interesting. Look at this delightful neighborhood with these coffee shops.
This is very lovable. People aren't at the absolute end
of their rope at all moments of the day and night.
(02:14):
It's an interesting vibe.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I know, well, you can't say that about this country,
right now you can kind of feel it in the air,
the anxiety, the trepidation, the sphincter tightening that is going on.
And whenever I can use the word sphincter, I like
to embrace that. And why I couldn't think of someone
who would be a better partner my plus one to
(02:40):
talk to one of my favorite people, Van Jones, about
what is happening right now in our country, because honestly,
I don't know what to make of it anymore. And
that's why Van is going to explain it all to us.
I think in many ways, Van Jones has been a
kind of north star during the course of this election,
(03:03):
although at times even his magnanimity that's a good word,
look it up has been tested. So how do we
get here? What does this say about us? Could Kamala
have done anything differently? And what about Trump's closing argument?
Van Jones? Welcome to Next Question with my co host
Samantha Bee.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Helloathan, Hello, been blessed to be a guest with sam
in the past, so it's good to be that.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's nice to see and of course she loved me too. Van,
can we please at that we.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, I mean that goes out. I think the global
love affair with Katie Kuric is unending and all inclusive always.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, all right, now you're going overboard. But thank you
for being here, and Gosh, Van, we have so much
to talk about. I saw you on Bill Maher on
Friday night. I watched it last night because I had
a wedding out of town and caught up with you there. Obviously,
I watch you on CNN and big fan, Van, big fan,
(04:06):
and you've.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Always been very kind and very encouraging. I sincerely appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Really well, let's talk about Gosh. I guess the latest
thing we need to talk about is what happened last
night right here in New York City, not far from
where I live at Madison Square Garden. Did you all
watch this rally? Did you see clips of it? And
(04:32):
what can I say? What did you think?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Look? You know I have a friend who I've been
talking with her earlier in the day, and you know,
she's she's frustrated with where the Democrats are a number
of her issues. She's quite progressive, and she was like,
I'm going to vote but and then I sent her
the clip of this horrible bigot making fun of Mexicans
(05:00):
is talking about. You know, they have so many babies
they have They never pull out. They always come inside
the same way that they came inside our country. Ha
ha ha. And when she heard the crowd, this massive crowd,
one of Trump's biggest crowd, laughing, laughing, laughing and making
fun of Mexican immigrants like her and Puerto Ricans, you know,
(05:22):
she immediately started sending it around to her family members
because like, this is a choice. You know, we have
as always imperfect, you know, Democratic candidates, except for Barack Obama,
they've all been imperfect. And then we have a literal
clown car fascist who was doing like racist insult comedy
(05:47):
eight days away from an election. You know, there's a
lot going on. Like I don't know if you guys
know this, but there's literally a floating island of garbage
in the middle of the ocean right now. Yeah, I
think it's called Puerto Rico. I don't get it. Like,
there's no if you need more information than that, And
there there was no rebuke. There's nobody to come out
(06:09):
and said that we don't believe in that. Well, no,
they love that. They are going to pull off the
biggest con ever, and that they're going to get black
some black people marginally more than what would have given
them a vote, and some Latin people to vote for
someone who is going to turn around and do a
massive crackdown on black and brown communities. Colm was trying
(06:30):
to lift people up. Trump wants to lock people up.
And you know that's where we are eight days out.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Sam as a comedian, Yeah, I had to ask you
about the quality of the humor. Obviously it was insulting,
but it wasn't even funny, you know what the.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Crazy the thing that is so I mean, everything about
it is so incredibly disheartening and I definitely watched it
sitting on those side just kind of just like just
like in a state of disbelief from like this is
who you you know this comedian like Tony Hunchcliff, Like
they hired him, they asked him to come and do this.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
They know by the way, Sam, it's like a he's like.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Very well known for like roasting people. He's like a
roast comic and he did you know he did one
that Tom Brady wrote like he does really like outrageous,
like like super just like hardcore, like pushing the boundaries
that's like his signature. That's his signature. If you've watched
one minute of his comedy, you know exactly what he's
(07:30):
all about. So having him come to a political rally
with tens of thousands of people there that's going to
be watched like nationwide, is on purpose. It's an on
purpose dog whistle. When you pay this person to come
and speak at your thing, you know what you're getting.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I wouldn't say it was a dog whistle, right, it
was just it's just like a right, just like.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
A blowhorn, Like you know, they all knew what was
going to happen, and unfortunately I just kind of go, wow,
that's so an intentional Like this is where your part is.
This is where you want people to vote for you,
but this is what this is what you have intentionally
put out in the world as a representative of you
(08:12):
and all the people that you stand for.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Like it's so awful.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I want to just I feel like I don't even know,
I don't even know what to do, and it's working
for them in a way because they're getting wall to
wall free press for it, and I'm like, wow, this
is like it's like Machiavellian. I'm like, I can't believe
that anyone could look at this person and think that
(08:35):
this crew of people could possibly be the president of
all Americans. Is so disgusting to me on such a
deep level, Like how dare you?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I think a lot of people, and we live in
like the United States of Amnesia, right, A lot of
people really have just kind of forgotten how bad it was,
you know, in during the years, and I think people
have I thinks a couple of these going on one
as people remember that they were good economic times, they
forget that that was the Obama economy that Trump inherited.
(09:09):
I mean Obama we had, we had seventy five straight
months of job growth under Obama. He handed that off
to Trump. It actually slowed down under Trump, but he
still had the good momentum from the Obama years. And
then he started chasing off all the good people around him,
and by the time he got to COVID, he was
(09:30):
down to not the B team, not the C team,
but the D team. He had taken Obama's playbook for
a pandemic and put in a garbage cant someplace, dismountled
that whole function in the federal government. So we had
a million, six hundred thousand extra Americans die because Trump
had a d team around him and they had thrown
(09:51):
away the eight teams playbook and didn't know what that
well he was doing. I was talking about injecting bleach.
So you had a worse economic performance under Trump. Only
thing that Trump did for the economy was cut tactics
for rich people. He didn't pass Obamacare, he didn't do
anything to help anybody, but he put his name on
stimulus checks, and so people think that Trump was for them.
(10:12):
So that was terrible. But then the thing that's even
more awful is it going forward? People say, well, it
wasn't so bad before. Democrats always scream hit, leer and racist.
I don't have to listen. I said, you know what, honestly,
you have a point. If you're a conservative. We said
Romney was unfit, we said we didn't like John McCain.
(10:33):
You have a point to say. They Democrats always attack
our nominee. And you might be rational and saying I'm
not going to listen to Democrats, but you should listen
to Republicans. You should listen to all the Republicans who
serve with them. Do just listen to all the generals
who serve with them, who are screaming and yelling and saying,
this guy is completely incompetent. You should listen to the
Supreme Court that says now Supreme that the president can
(10:55):
be lawless, which that was a restraint before. Now there's
no restraint from the Supreme You have people who are
Republicans saying he's a racist and a fascist, and you
will no longer have You won't even have the D team.
You're going to have the Z team around him in
the White House. This is this is a very very
serious threat that we're facing eighty days.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I want to know why you think people have amnesia.
I think you know what are the root causes and
the root reasons that you think people are gravitating to
Donald Trump and the race is so tight.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I think social media. I think there's a big campaign
from Russia, China and Roan to just discourage and distress progresses,
and so I think that's more effective than that. Honestly,
I think that RFK Junior supporting Trump has hurt us,
hurt progressive and helped Trump more than people really understand.
(11:57):
Because I do think that the make America healthy again Maha,
that slogan does appeal to some people in the yoga
and kil crowd and other people who.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
The wellness community.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Wellness community has been pulled very far to the right,
frankly objectively, in ways that I think people are not tracking.
So I do think that there's that, But but yeah,
I think people are hurting and uncertain. I think that
you know, it sucks to go at the grocery store
and have to take stuff out of your cart and
put it back on the shelf because you know, you're
(12:28):
watching those numbers go up in a way that's kind
of scary. I think. I think the economy managed a
lot of people, and you know, everything is twenty percent
more expected than it used to be. And now that
was a worldwide global phenomenon and we beat it back better,
faster and quicker than era. But people don't like that
kind of thing, and there's a lot of disinformation out
(12:49):
there too.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I was going to say, do you think that people
understand that Joe Biden. I mean, my husband and I
talk about this because he thinks that Joe Biden has
had impact on inflation. I say that it's sort of
a worldwide trend, as you do, Van, But were there
things that Joe Biden could have done to get prices
(13:12):
down at the grocery store. Was flooding the economy with
all the COVID money was flooding, you know, with adding
to the deficit with student loan forgiveness. I'm not the
economy is not my strong suit. But were there things
that were initiated by the Biden administration are not done
that have led voters to feel that he could have
(13:38):
had a bigger impact on these things?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Well? Look, possibly, though it's hard to tell. Look, and
there were people the works of economists warning you might
be putting too much gas on the fire by doing
some of the investments and other things that needed to
get done. But you know what, I think what people
forget is a lot of that spending you know that
Biden and Harris did on infrastructure. It's still that's that's
(14:07):
long term, that's not it's not like they just poured
it all on the streets. Everybody went and grabbed it
and like started buying cotton candy. Like long term investments
in the country payoff over a long period of time,
they also hit the economy over a long period of time.
So look, I think you have to just look at
the comparison. We got an inflation down faster than everybody
(14:28):
else around the world. It was a global problem. There
were two things happening. You had the supply chains that
had been you know, backed up, and demand that it
had been held up because of the COVID pandemic globally,
and so you know, once everything opened back up, prices
went through the roof around the world. And you know,
(14:48):
some of biden palsy frankly smart mantary policy from the Fed,
which Biden had done the doing, also finally beat it
back down. But you know, you're still up above where
you used to be. I think the thing people don't
think about enough is Okay, I'm mad about inflation and
prices today. So I'm going to vote for Donald Trump,
who is going to make it all massively worse because
(15:09):
both of his big ideas are inflationary. His big idea
of putting your riffs on everything is going to drive
up prices, and so you're either going to have to
pay buy more expensive stuff overseas or largely more expensive
stuff from American producers. You might say that's great for
long term you know, reshoring, but short term prices are
going to go through the roof. And the other thing
(15:31):
is grab all the immigrants thrown out of the country,
which is then going to create a labor shortage, is
going to drive up the price of labor, which is
also inflationary. His two big ideas. If you don't like prices,
now vote for this guy. He is Captain inflation. He
is mister Inflation. He is the father of inflation. That's
what you're dealing with with Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, and it's not even just just amnesia, because it's
also like disinformation campaigns like that are just hugging for force.
It's like, you know, there's a proportion of the American
electorate who thinks that Joe Biden dismantled Roby Waite and
you just kind of go what and what now? And
it's a large proportion.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's not it's not tiny. I wanted to ask both
of you, I mean, do you think the Democrats van
are talking enough about these two highly inflationary policy proposals,
i e. Tariffs and the Great Deportation And what the
impact is really going to be. Why isn't that registering?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
You know, I just don't know. I think the blizzard
of bs that you have to go with every day
from the joke. Yet, Babe, I mean, by the time
you get finished talking about Arnold Palmer's penis and you
know that's just clown joke. I mean it's so hard.
I mean, that's part of the strategy. I guess it
just to put just that a blizzard of bs. And
(16:57):
it's hard to disappoint out basic stuff. Donald Trump will
make inflation worse by throwing out immigrants. It's hard. The
other thing, it's hard, you know, thinking about this over
the weekend with black men. Donald Trump literally has on
his own agenda, not you know, part of twenty twenty
five Donald Trumps that's not mine. Well, you know, Donald
(17:18):
Trump never lies, it's always very honest. So we said
this not is I have to agree with that. But
Donald Trump's actual agenda forty seven is all about attacking
black men. It's literally, we're going to bring back stopping frisk.
We're going to have the Feds put anybody who's involved
in any sort of like street level pity crime put
(17:39):
them in federal prison. Like it's an amazing you could
not come up with a more terrifying agenda for black men.
But you know this, you know the Trump crackdown on
black men, which he's promising, we haven't really been able
to get ourselves to talk about in clear terms.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I want to tell you all about the Cancer Straight
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oncologist doctor Diane Reedy Lagunis. I was a guest and
we had a totally candid conversation about my family's experiences
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(18:30):
that kolon uskby on National TV. Cancer straight Talk features
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and every episode of Cancer Straight Talk. Isn't the problem
(18:59):
that people who are supporting Donald Trump are not listening
to anything that is trying to convince them otherwise? On
Fox and Friends this morning, apparently I didn't see it,
but reportedly they were gushing over the Madison Square Garden event.
Right Wing media in general is not analyzing Trump's policies,
(19:25):
so people are getting, you know, a very distinct brand
of news and information that is staying in its lane.
It's pro Trump. Don't criticize Trump lane. In fact, criticize
obviously Harris till the cows come home. And you know,
(19:46):
by the way, one could argue that the other networks
and media outlets do the same to Trump, and I
don't think you can compare the two. We can talk
about that in a moment. But they're not hearing these
things about tariffs, and that's what they're listening to. Twenty
four to seven.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah, well, look, you know, you know, you do have
people who are like really brought into like you know,
Trump media, and you have people who by other media.
It's the people in the middle who are really just
not tuned in that much at all. Those are good
people who decide the election. It's the independent and swing
voters in swing counties and swing states, and those people.
(20:24):
That's why do you see Donald Trump going on too
all these podcasts, all these quote unquote bro podcasts, because
that's where a bunch of people who are not watching
Bots and Friends, who aren't listening to Rachel Bado, who
are just that's all, that's that's what they're their kind
of corny cousin or their crazy uncle does. They're interested
in sports and other things. He's going after those people,
(20:44):
I think very well, and trying to get these you know,
these guys to come out and vote. It's very, very
hard to communicate in this environment. And I think that
that's everybody wakes up in the morning, an environment where
there's an algorithm. Your next door neighbor is looking at
their phone at the same time you're looking at your phone,
and they are seeing completely different things. It's not to
(21:06):
say that yours is right and there's is wrong. Maybe
their's is right and yours is wrong. It's just to
say that it's completely different. And so when you go
out to check your mail box and she goes out
to check her mail box, you're literally living in a different,
algorithmically created world that she didn't pick constantly for herself,
and you didn't pick constantly for yourself. And so that's
one reason why I really focus on kindness, civility, empathy.
(21:34):
We're all at the effect of something that we didn't
create or choose. Four years ago. You clicked on something
about Hillary Clinton, or you clicked on something about you know,
some issue in the environment, and that is still informing
what your algorithm is giving you. Your next door neighbor
clicked on something maybe anaquis about, you know, buying a gun,
(21:55):
and that is now informing four years later what she's
seeing in her algorithm. Then come out and say you're
an idiot, you're a cult member, you're crazy. The whole
last second, everybody's slow down. Now, somebody, not me and
not you, is creating this division for their own purposes,
and so mentally, can we be kind? And that's you know,
I try to focus on that and try to remind
(22:15):
myself that none of us chose this crazy, dystopian disinformation
reality that we're living in, and none of I's got
to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay, mister Rogers, So you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I mean I I aspire to that too. But I
guess one question, and Sam, I'm curious how you feel
about this? You know, how do you cover Trump? The
media has gotten, you know, tied itself in knots. How
you cover this guy? And I think they're still trying
to figure it out eight years later. Van, you know,
(22:54):
Jeff Zucker got trash for covering all his rallies without
any kind of critical commentary. A company them because they
rated well, right, and now.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You have just in just defense. We were criticizing it
the whole time, but it turns out just the overall
effect of covering it that much, covering even empty podiums,
had a positive effect, even though the whole time we
were I was on the air that during those years
we criticized it, but we also just showed it so
much that it wound up backfiring very much, very much.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, I still think we have not like we have
not figured it out. No one has figured it out
because it is so outrageous, Like last night's rally is
so outrageous, and he's just getting like volumes just like
you know, uh Kamala has like raised a billion dollars,
but he's got a billion dollars in free advertising that's
(23:43):
occurring today. Like the more you know, I have good
friends in the advertising industry who are like, it's all
about brand. The only thing that matters is brand awareness.
It's not even like really what the brand is doing.
It's brand awareness. So you want to be like pushing
the brand again and again and again and so that
it's the last thing you think of when you're in
that voting booth, and that's what's happening, and it's happening
(24:05):
for free today. It's just everywhere. We're talking about it
right now, because how can you not talk about it?
But I don't think we're talking about it. I think
we're talking about it in a horrified way. I mean,
we're horrified, but we're so think that that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You can't tell me that that rally at Madison Square
Garden helped him van you know, to interviewed Tara Palmery,
maybe it helped solidify his base and he was throwing
red meat out to them. But he certainly, as she said,
elections are about addition, not subtraction. And if you're going
(24:40):
to alienate Puerto Ricans, right, four hundred and fifty thousand
Puerto Ricans are eligible to vote in Pennsylvania. Did you
know that.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I didn't know that number. I'm happy to hear that number.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
There's a huge population of Puerto Ricans. Like, why would
you invite a guy who's going to trash people? Why
would you say you want to bring back the Alien
and Sedition Acts of seventeen ninety eight, which gave the
president the power to deport non citizens who were subjects
of foreign enemies, gave the president the power to deport
(25:15):
any alien he considered dangerous, and the Sedition Act, if
we need to be reminded, made it a crime to
write or publish anything quote, false, scandalous and malicious about
the government or the president.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, I hate to drop this right in the middle
of this chat, but this election is close. So actually
it works really well, Like it actually works really well,
because if it didn't work, this election would be like
a shoeing for Carmel Herro's. But it really super works.
And that is my honest feeling.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
What works. What are you saying? This campaign strategy works.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
To be this outrageous, It works to have that comedian
on that stage being so repulsive, like being actually being
repugnant actually really works for them.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And like I don't know what to say.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
The other thing that it does is, which is even
more troubling and more reasons for people who are listening
to you get involved and to make sure that everybody
bothes and trusts, get their friends to vote, and make
sure that when you vote, triple it, make sure you're
three other people are voting. Is because if he wins
with this, he's got a permission structure now to do
whatever he wants. If you can be this badly behaved
(26:32):
before you're the president, if you can tell people, and
by the way, notice he will say things like I'm
going to lock up all my opponents, I'm going to
lock up Nancy Pelosi, I'm going to do all these things,
and then all the Republican apologies come out and say
he doesn't mean that, he's just speaking in hyperperly. And
then the next day he says, no, no, no, no,
I meant what I said, like he's literally will tell
(26:54):
that the next interviewer. Well, everybody said he didn't mean it.
No I meant it. So here's the thing. If you
get elected with that, you can say, with some justification,
I have a mandate to lock up all my opponents.
I told you I was going to do it, and
you left it me. I have a mandate to crack
down on all of these communities because I told you
I was going to deport all these people, and you
(27:16):
elect me. So it is unfortunately very effective, but it
also should be galvanizing on our side. And I think
that for people who believe in democracy, for people who
believe in human rights, people who believe in the Constitution.
This should be galvanizing on our side. We shouldn't be like, yeah,
well I don't like what Kamala said twenty years ago,
or I don't like her foreign policy on this thing,
(27:37):
or I don't like so therefore I'm going to vote,
but I'm going to be sad about it. Look, you
should vote and be passionate about it, because not only
does Kamala actually have plans that will actually help you,
like help you get a house, help you get an apprenticeship,
help you start a small business, actual plans. With Donald
trup has never passed a plan to help you. His
(27:58):
only economic adgeda to was passing the tax clubs for
his friends. He's never passed a bill to help ordinary Americans.
Kalma has a stack of those bills ready to sign.
And so, if you care about the future, if you
don't want more inflation, if you do want help getting
for your kid to buy a house, if you want
to start a business, there's only one candidate for you,
(28:20):
and you should be passionate about it. You should be
texting everyone you know about it. We lost Florida in
year two thousand by five hundred and thirty seven votes.
There were almost what one hundred and fifty million votes cast.
It came down to five hundred and thirty seven votes
in Florida plus five boats in Supreme Court. But that's
another story.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And well a lot of hanging chats and votes that
got thrown away, right sure, sure, but they start every
morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating pop culture,
I mean likes.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So everyone should be passionate about saying I don't care
what you say about any of the deficiencies of Kamala Harris.
You know, Donald Trump gets to be lawless, Kamala has
to be flawless.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yes, a lot of people have been commenting that on
my Instagram.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And you know, social media does a great job of reinforcing.
If you click like on somebody who's grumpy about, you know,
any issue, you'll get nine hundred more of those next tomorrow,
and so it will reinforce whatever grumpiness, whatever unhappiness, whatever dispepsia,
(29:33):
they will be reinforced. And then if you click or
like or share or comment I want, then you'll get
nine thousand the next day. And so that's why everybody's
so depressed. I'm not on social media, so you know,
and I've got a good therapist, so I'm not depressed.
But everybody that I know is, you know, miserable. And
I'm like, honestly, your life is pretty good. You live
in the United States. People are like, well, all these
(29:55):
people with all this privilege, you know, the most privileged,
every American citizen. There's never been a more privileged people.
I don't care if you're black, white, brow, There's never
been a more privileged people of people that live in
the United States. Today. We have clean near clean war.
I mean, we have our problems, but we are in
a great position. Everybody's miserable. Why because these things do
(30:18):
not give us information.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
They give you affirmation. That's my famous line that I
co opted from my friend Nicole Seligman. Affirmation not information.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I like that. And if you happen to have a
bad day today, you'll have a worse day tomorrow because
whatever you're clicking and liking, that's what it gives you
more of. And so yeah, people are you know, the
people are unhappy. And so that's why it's rationally a
change election. People do want change. The problem is that
(30:50):
you know, you said, well, okay, I'm going to vote
for change. I'm going to vote to change political parties. No, honey,
no sir, no man. The worst thing you could do
right now is to say we're going to put the
car in reverse and go back to this clown car
administration that boshed COVID, that you know, ruined the Obama economy,
(31:13):
that you have an extra six hundred thousand dead people
because this guy didn't know what he was doing, and
he's more disinhibited now. He's crazier now. The Supreme Court
s is he can do more damage now his team
is worse now. That is not the change that you want.
You want the change that Kam was talking about, which
is to build on the progress Limiteda has been with
(31:33):
Biden and get you more of what you need. That's
Kama Harris.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
At least want someone in the White House who you
can have a conversation with, who you can move, who
you can like, you can push in a direction that
you care about. You just want some You want a
coherent voice, like minimally you want a coherent voice in
the White House? Please can we please have that?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
But Van, you know you talk about building on the
Biden administration for reasons I guess you know again, food prices,
gas prices, housing prices. Whether he's to blame or not,
but it happened during his administration. He is incredibly unpopular,
(32:16):
and Kamala Harris I don't think has done a very
good job. She started to of separating and saying what
she would do differently than Joe Biden? And what do
you think of that? Could she have said, listen, I'm
proud of this, but or we could have done this better.
(32:37):
Why is she so cautious about saying how she might
approach some problems differently than an incredibly unpopular incumbent.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I hate to say this because it's going to sound Look,
Kamala Harris is a loyal person. That is very It
might sound corny. She's she's not going to take out
her knife and start stabbing somebody in the back to
(33:12):
advance herself. People think that the opposite about Comma said, Oh,
she's Matchiavella. She's this, she's at you know, she's tough minded,
she's a she's a super practice is she's not She's
not California progressive. I'll tell you that's a California. She's
never in the progressive camp at all, as you know.
But I think that she has a reluctance to say
(33:36):
we fucked this up, we fucked that. I don't I
don't think she believes it. But also don't think that
she is that type of a person. And so I
think that I would have preferred if I were if
I were her, I would have preferred for her to say,
you know what, Joe Biden's a hell of a man.
He's done a hell of the job. But everybody has
been the number two and had other ideas. I've been
number two. I had other ideas. Here's what I wanted
(33:56):
to do. But I know no calm for thirty years.
She cannot fix her mouth to say something like that.
She just can't do it. And so if it's a
character flaw that costs her the election, and that character
flaw is just too much loyalty to people who gave
her a shot, I just I just think you got
to eat the whole hamburger will come here. She's not
(34:16):
that kind of person. She is not that kind of politicans.
I don't think she believes it. I think that she
honestly believes that they did a better job than they
get credit for. I think she does have critiques and
criticisms of him. But I don't think that she feels
comfortable doing that in public. And that's just the reality
of it.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And also in a very truncated campaign, like it's not
you know, when you have like a very narrow window
to like come in, take over, take over the whole campaign.
You are driving, you are driving to election day. You
really do not have time or you don't have like
(34:52):
the grace of the public to go sinkly need some
mistakes here, you just don't those. It is not the
time to like look back, like and go I think
we failed on this measure.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I think you need to do.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I think she is just driving the most forward the
best she.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Can, like go for it.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I just want to say, as a political guy, I
agree with Katie that it had been politically smarter and
better for her to find a couple of things to say. Look,
I wish we had done this earlier. I whish we
had done this all. Here's what I learned when I
came in. It's unfracking, very easy on fracking. So you
know what, as a California Democrat and you know, we
(35:32):
were very anti fracking, and I came out of that.
But like a lot of California like a lot of Democrats.
But here's what I learned in office. I learned, first
of all, you can have fracking and also do the
clean energy agenda. But much more importantly, I learned that
we needed that natural gas we were fracking in Pennsylvania
to beat Putin. Putin when I came into office, Putin
(35:53):
started threatening Europe. He was going to cut off natural
gas and freeze Europeans in their beds because we wanted
to defend Ukraine. And I learned we needed that natural
gas coming out of Pennsylvania fracking to stop Putent fracking
as a part of my geopolitical arsenal to defend democracy.
And I would never write, so didn't you tell you that?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I haven't heard her say any of that. I heard
her say the first part. I heard her say, you
can have clean energy and be involved in fracking. That
her views have evolved, But what has been sometimes missing
I think for some voters Van and Sam is sort
of that second or third sentence to help people understand
(36:34):
a little bit more than kind of one or two
sentences that kind of give the general idea. And I'm like,
when you're asked about the Supreme Court as she was
in that CNN town hall. I interviewed Neil Katilla in
front of his law firm and a bunch of clients. Now,
he's brilliant, right, he's a constitutional law professor. I mean,
the guy's brain is unparalleled. And he was talking about
(36:58):
the pros and cons of expanding this Supreme Court and
of term limits from a historical perspective. And I don't
expect her to say that, but I want a little
bit more meat on the bone van If not so
much for me, but for listeners. I want her to say,
you know what, I want to look into this. There's
some pros to that, there's some cons. But one thing
(37:18):
I do think is absolutely necessary is a code of
ethics for Supreme Court justices who have clearly exhibited a
conflict of interests on several occasions over the past two years.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I think when you've got a candidate on the other
side who's like people are ripping the heads off cats
and dogs in the street, You're just like, let me
just hold on everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, I guess. I guess we treat her as a
normal candidate and we want, you know, and we tolerate
him as an abnormal candidate. And so is that unfair
in your view?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I think at one hundred percent unfair. But I also
think that I understand what Sam is saying. She's saying, listen,
she's already pulled off eight hundred miracles, right, like to
take over a campaign one hundred days of colection day,
to hold this party together, to get the Chenese and
Chompsky on the same bus, to keep driving it forward,
to be able to have to switch out some of
(38:14):
the campaigns the up, but you can't switch out all
of it because you don't have a beat. Like, So
I agree, it's like she's pulled out eight hundred and
fifty miracles already and we should just give her our applause.
And I also feel that for whatever reason, she has
locked in on the strategy of just saying the same
thing every time, And even Charlamagne and God said, you know,
you just sound like a robot, and she goes, that's
(38:35):
called discipline, ha ha ha. But I do think that
given the voters we're trying to move, who you know,
they can't. You can't be more appauled by Donald Trump
and they still haven't moved. And you can't be more
impressed by her resume, and they still haven't moved. What
do they need to hear? I do think they need
to hear something else. There's something that she's not doing.
(38:56):
And so look, I would say I'd love that answer,
and Supreme Court, I love my instrument tracking. We can
all answers, but we're eight days out, and so the
thing I would say is whatever you need to say
to your own friends, because again, five hundred and thirty
seven votes, whatever you like, Tom's not going to talk
to your friends. She's going to be on a stage,
She's going to be interviewing. You get to talk to
(39:18):
your friends. You have your Facebook followers, you have your
Instagram followers, you have your WhatsApp chat groups, You've got
your and you should just say, I am now the
common haras campaign manager, and I am fortually myself going
to make the arguments that I think are a ballad
to my friends and be aggressive about it and be
passionate about it. Donald Trump closes strong. He always closes strong.
(39:40):
He's going to have even more devastating campaign ads to
come out. He's going he always closes strong. And so
if you if you to Sam's point, if you can
appreciate that if you had to run for president one
hundred days from now, how hard it would be for you.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, Like, I feel so cynical for being a person
who's like, actually, I think there's no almost no room
for a nuance.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It's just like everything.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Anytime she dips into a nuance, I think she risks
a larger swath of the population. I think it's all
about risk management, keeping steady, get into the ellipse, giving
delivering that like heavy hammer. Like, I just don't I
feel I totally understand and appreciate what you're saying. I'm
(40:24):
just not sure that the nuance is going to move people.
I literally think it could be like a coupon per
a sandwich on the way into the voting booth.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
It's gonna move from up.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
No one's doing that. That's not legal, But I do
think a coupon for a Quiznos might actually seal the deal.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's buddy.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
If you want to get smarter every morning with a
breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com before
(41:10):
we go. I want to ask you all about the kerfuffle.
It's not actually bigger than a kerfuffle. I would say
it's a full out brewhaha over the La Times and
the Washington Post failure to endorse a candidate. You know,
I'm surprised that there are many people who don't understand
or appreciate, or maybe it's outlived its usefulness, the separation
(41:34):
from an editorial board and the rest of the paper.
And I do think I was talking to Nancy Gibbs,
who was at a wedding I was at former editor
in chief of Time, now teaches public policy at Harvard.
You know that when Ruth Marcus the Washington Coast says
an endorsement represents the heart and soul of the newspaper,
(41:54):
that's a little misleading for readers. It's really the editorial
board and it's a separate entity. But I'm curious for
you both to weigh in on these two major newspapers
at the behest of their billionaire owners, deciding not to
endorse a candidate.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah. I don't love it. I don't like it. I
do think I think can subtle and not so subtle
ways people are preparing for a Trump presidency, and I
don't like to see it. I don't like to see
it on Wall Street, and I don't like to see
it in I guess it feels to me like democracy
is signed darkness, like what the editorial I don't think
(42:37):
that the editorial board has outlived its usefulness. I think
they should have done it, and I'm really dismayed, like
really disheartened that they weren't doing it.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I don't know that it moves people, but yeah, it
should exist. What do you think, Van, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Think I think newspapers don't matter as much as they
used to, but they still matter. And I think thateople
don't understand the editorial board. You know, you can you
can have an opinion about a candidate and still have
the The other on the other side of the wall
often literally are the reporters, and they can still do
fair reporting. So we've kind of known that for one
hundred fifty years in the United States. So I would
(43:16):
much rather them the way in. I don't think ten
years from now, if we have very bad outcomes from
the Trump presidency, anybody's going to be proud that they
stood on the sidelines. I think that people should think
I think that I think that people should take to
take a sting one way or the other. I agree
with you, I don't. I don't think you carvery yourself
in glory if one hundred years from now or ten
(43:38):
years from now, you wouldn't register an opinion about what's coming.
And by the way, and I say this, no matter
what your what your view is. If your view is
that you know Kama Harris has just not met your bar,
and if your view is that you think that the
economy would be in better hands with Donald Trump, that
would be interesting to know. Like whatever it is, I'm
(43:59):
just saying, I'm I'm not saying it's got to be
for comment, it's got to be for Trump. But I
think that we don't want our institutions to be We
don't want our few remaining institutions to not offer their
honest opinion at a time of great consequence.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, now is the time to plant a flag one.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Way or the other. I mean, jin maybe there's something
I haven't heard.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
I think it's also a little ironic that Trump administration
or Trump officials were visiting Blue Origin when this decision
was made by Jeff Bezos. It just seems really yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Look, I know Jeff Bezos. I'm quite fond of him.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Oh yeah, he gave you a lot of money to
give away, like one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Right exactly. I know Jeff Bezos, I'm quite fond of him.
I've not talked to him about this. I don't know.
I literally Kim Kardashian's a good friend of mine. Jeff
Bezos friend of mine. I discount ninety eight percent of
what good said about them in public because it's almost
always not right. So I do not know what decision
making was, but I would just say, as a matter
of principle, I would say this too, or about anyone,
(45:09):
this is not the time to be quiet. I think
people should put their best thinking forward so that we
can make informed decisions.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
When this episode drops, the election will be less than
a week away. What do you think is going to happen? Man?
Speaker 3 (45:24):
You know, I think it's going to be house to
house combat. I think it's going to come down to
I think this will be the closest I think it's
going to be one of the closest elections in American history.
But I'll tell you it's in the hands of the
people who are listening. I mean, we can all sit
here and write speeches for everybody and that sort of stuff.
They ain't got to read those speeches. You can write
(45:46):
a text message, it's going to be read. You can
make a phone call, it's going to be heard. It
will come more than anything else. What I would say is,
you don't want to be sitting there, whoever you're for
sitting there election, I would saying I wish I had
done one thing more the next several days. You should
put every arrow in the air. You should do everything
you possibly can. You know, if you've never done a
(46:07):
video selfie on your social media, do it because that
might move three votes. You have no idea the impact
you can have. So sometimes people put stuff up and
it goes mega viral and changes the whole conversation. So
I think that it is in the hands of ordinary
people at this point, every day people at this point,
especially in the seven battleground states. And if you don't know,
(46:28):
if you live in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, Arizona,
or Nevada, your vote matters more than anybody else's vote
in the country those seven states. If you live in
those states, your vote is one hundred votes. If you
live in those states, your vote is a thousand votes.
Your vote counts more than all the rest of our
votes combined, because those are the seven states that will
(46:50):
determine this election. So if you live in those seven
battot ground states, you have a responsibility to vote whichever
way you feel, and you will have a bigger impact
on the election those states and any of us talking
about it, I.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Think we're going to know the night of no.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Well, I don't think so, And I think we should
remind everyone we know that you don't have to tell
anybody how you voted in that voting booth. You don't
have to tell a damn soul. You don't have to
vote one way just because your parents did and your
grandparents did, and your husband told you that you had to,
or your wife thought that that would be a good
idea for you. You can tell anybody anything you want,
(47:25):
and you can vote with your conscience, But for what
do you know it's right?
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I thought Michelle Obama's speech is great emphasize that, yeah,
we have to use.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Our voices to make these choices clear to the men
that we love our lives are worth more than their
anger and disappointment. And we are more than just baby
making vessels. And if you are a woman who lives
(48:05):
in a household of men that don't listen to you
or value your opinion, just remember that your vote is
a private matter, regardless of the political views of your partner.
You get to choose, You get to use your judgment
and cast your vote for yourself and the women in
(48:27):
your life. Remember, women standing up for what is best
for us can make the difference in this election. So
let us use our voices in these final days.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
That was a pretty powerful speech to anythink fan.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Migielle Obama may be the best communicator in the English
language right now. I mean, she is so good. Always
say I love Obama and her husband. I mean, she's
just a believable and and I thought she did a
great job of pointing out to men what it's like
(49:06):
to be a man when you're you're the woman that
you care about your partner, your daughter is in medical
distress and you can't and she's bleeding out, and the
doctors are standing there looking at her, afraid that they
help your You love the one they've got to go
to prison and really just letting people bleed out of
parking lots, as a as a man, as a as
(49:26):
someone who wants to be able to protect the people
that you love, what does it mean?
Speaker 2 (49:32):
And also the message of like it takes two people
to make an unplanned pregnancy, do you want to be
able to do something about that?
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Or do you not?
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Like you have skin in the game, you're part of this,
being a part of it.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I thought Michelle did just an unbelievable job, as she
always does, and she makes it look so easy. It's
very difficult to do what she does. Like, that's the
arguments that she makes, the way that she makes them.
Who she's being when she's making them might just sing
Michelle Obama as a national trend.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I also had a little bit of a cold, I
could tell.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
So, yeah, got your nose, she pulled it off. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Do you think the Democratic Party needs to retool? My
husband John says things like, how this election is so close,
what does it say about the Democratic Party? And I'm
curious what you think it says about the Democratic Party?
Has it lost its way? Has it lost its mojo?
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Look, I am very I'm always willing to look in
the mirror, Like, if something goes wrong in my life,
the easy thing to do is to say that person sucks,
and that person sucks, the other person sucks, and why
do they do that? The harder thing to do is say,
you know what, what did I do to create this situation?
Even if it's nine nine percent of the other person's fault,
I looked for my one percent. And so I am
(50:49):
not trying to let literal fascists off the hook. That
is its own thing. But is there anything I can
look at on our side?
Speaker 1 (50:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, I think like a stuff on our side. I
think we we have created a style on the progressive
left that is that's obnoxious and that makes people feel
uncomfortable and unwelcome. Too often. I mean we change terms
every six months. Somebody said I was a BIPOCK. I said,
what is the I've never gone to a BIPOC church
(51:21):
or a bi I've never eaten any BIPOC food, Like,
is there a BIPOC barber shop? What are you talking about?
Latin X. You make up these terms and then people
feel dumb because they don't know them. And then I
think we also have created a situation where we think
that Trump is pulling people. I think we're pushing people,
you know, I said, I'm Bill Maher. If we if
(51:41):
we have a party where we say all white people
are racist, all of you you're all racist, All men
are toxic, all billionaires are evil, well then you can't
be mad when white male billionaires like Elon Musk leave
our party. Elon Musk was a Democrat supporting Andrew Yang
four years ago. Now he is on some crazy look.
I don't I don't let him off the hook. He
(52:02):
has a responsibility to defend democracy not undermined. But is
there a one percent where if he if someone like
him comes into the room, if a straight white male
comes into the room, if if someone who is Jewish
and who is pro Israel coming to the room, are
they welcome or not? Do we want them or not.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
I have a friend who's covering the Trump campaign and
I asked her about Trump supporters and she said, in
her view, a lot of it has to do with
quote lefty lecture culture. I thought that was a very
interesting observation, and I think it basically encompasses, man, what
you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
And after the election, I think we should do a
whole analysis of it. But until the election. Whatever sins
and flaws we have are literally nothing compared to a
overtly racist, overtly fascist, overtly raitorian mass phenomenon that is
about to not only ruin America if it wins, but
(53:05):
also abandoned people in Ukraine and also make sure we
don't fix the climate crisis. So I am not trying
to take any of the the foot off the gas.
But after the selection, can we say the same things
more kindly? Yes? Can we defend African Americans, Latinos, latinas
poor folks, the environment more kindly, more wisely, more empathetically.
(53:28):
Can we be more magnetic?
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yes we can, and perhaps be less judgmental and self
righteous I don't know.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Less judgy and shitty toward people, Yes, that's not Can
we improve yes? Can we be more magnetic and welcoming? Yes?
Should we be? Yes? After we win this selection?
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Van Jones, thank you, Van all right, thank you, Talk
to you soon. Sam. Yes, I really like Van Jones.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
I like them too, talk to them. They are arenas
and I always enjoy I always enjoy his perspective. He's great.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
What do you think about those closing remarks about the
Democratic Party.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
People just want to be governed from the middle. They
just want to be governed from the middle. They just
seem to, like the majority of the country lives pretty
much in the middle zone, and they just want a
steady hand. They want things that are like actually more
simple than sometimes we make them.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
I can agree with that. Who do you think is
going to win? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I don't want to manifest. I don't want to I
don't want to manifest a big, bad problem. But I
will say that I think it's going to be extremely
close and a squeaker, and that is so distressing. So
I don't know either way. But I do have a
sick feeling in my stomach that there's a you know,
there's a chance we could have a repeat of twenty
(54:56):
sixteen and Amlowen's popular vote a wide margin, but those
electoral colleges barry pesky. So I don't really know. I
think anything is possible. I don't know that one is
more probable than the other. And that is extremely distressing,
and that I think necessitates like a real reckoning, like
(55:21):
who actually are we here? Regardless of who wins, who
actually are we That this is a squeaker. It's absolutely
it's absolutely awful.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Well, I have to say on that positive note, Sam,
thanks so much for being with me today and to
be continued. Hang in there, Hang in there.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Stay strong, drive people to the Owling station.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
a subject you want us to cover, or you want
to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy
world reach out. You can leave a short message at
six h nine five P one two five five five,
or you can send me a DM on Instagram. I
would love to hear from you. Next Question is a
(56:18):
production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers
are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer
is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and
Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
(56:39):
newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the
podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You
can also find me on Instagram and all my social
media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio
app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(57:00):
I want to tell you all about the Cancer Straight
Talk podcast from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center with MSK
oncologist doctor Diane Reedy Lagunis. I was a guest and
we had a totally candid conversation about my family's experiences
with cancer, including my husband Jay's illness, my own treatment
for breast cancer, and of course, the time I got
(57:21):
that kolonaskby on National TV. Cancer straight Talk features life
affirming conversations with experts and patients alike about topics affecting
everyone touched by cancer. If that includes you or someone
you love, I hope you'll listen to my episode and
every episode of Cancer Straight Talk
Host
Katie Couric
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.