April 17, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz discuss the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the return of Joe Biden. They also delve into the controversy surrounding Harvard's funding and the cultural perspectives on ADHD, including parenting strategies and screen time management. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yeah, I agree. Back on normally the show with it's
normally she takes but when the news gets weird. I
am Mary Katherine. And by the way, Happy path.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Over and Happy Easter are celebrating this week, Thank you,
Mary Catherine, and I am Carol Markowitz. And it is
a crazy week with the kids off from school. Are
you feeling it over there?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yes, we have the kids home as well. And I
was doing some Easter clothing shopping. We do try to
get a little some special stuff for the kids for Easter.
And you'll appreciate this. When I was wandering through a
store and I was like, I'm not going to get
my oldest new shoes. She's fine new shoes.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And I stumbled on in like Nordstrom rack a pair
of tiny women's the right size for her, bubblegum pink
pat and leather loafers and I do not, I must
buy these.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You must let me know they have them in my size.
I could seriously use some bubblegum pink.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I will send them along if I could find them.
I was like, how is this real? You're getting new
shoes girl, So well, that's happening. That made everybody happy.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, I mean, nothing makes me happier than shoes. Actually
my favorite thing to buy.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So here we are on another normal week. Yeah right,
you're going super normally. The biggest story continues to be
this man they refer to him as Maryland Maryland father,
Kilmar Abrago Garcia accidentally deported to El Salvador. You know what,
(01:45):
Actually I don't know. Maybe you don't know. Let's discuss
how is he accidentally deported?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So this is the part where the Trump administration runs
into a problem because they have admitted in court documents
that they made a clerical error that men he got
on this plane to El Salvador. He was part of
a group that was rounded up to potentially be on
these planes. And then someone realized that at some point
this man who although he was adjudicated possibly MS thirteen
(02:14):
by an immigration judge in twenty nineteen, he did have
what is it called, there's some sort of protection status
he was given that did not allow him to be
sent back to El Salvador because of gang threats to
him allegedly in his home country. But isn't that what
(02:35):
they all say? Well, yes, but the problem was that
that protective status was given by the Trump during the
Trump administration, the last.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
One that's going to leave the mark, Right.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, so he had this thing. Now, it doesn't change
the fact that he was definitely an illegal immigrant in
this country. I've looked at the government's evidence that he
was in thirteen. It's it doesn't seem like a ton
But I'm like of the mind that he definitely shouldn't
be sent to a prison in El Salvador, Right, And
(03:10):
if we had an order that said he should not
be sent to El Salvador, we can deport him, and
we should, but we've got to send him somewhere else, right.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
The thing that's sort of odd about this is I
have never seen Democrats fight harder for any lives in
their lives as they have for this person who was
in the United States legally and was possibly an MS
thirteen gang member.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm with you, if they.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Made a mistake, they should fix it. I don't see
the problem with simply deporting him to El Salvador and
not to the prison there El Salvador. Figure it out
from there. But there is there's just a marked thing
with the Democrats where they are fighting for him in
a way that I have never seen them fight for anything.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, and you know, same with the Columbia card guy
who was down in Louisiana who a court did say,
like he can be deported. Yeah, someone rightly made the
point that Chris van Holland, who's like, I need to
meet directly with this head of state to talk about
this man, you know, releases perfunctory statements about the murder
(04:19):
of his own citizens at the hands of illegal immigrants. Right, right,
there is a marked difference, and that is something that
you know, I think American citizens will give him quite
a bit of leeway on the immigration stuff because he
has had immense success at the border and frankly, Biden
intentionally created a problem so large that correcting it is
(04:40):
going to have mistakes, right, but that's it. Yeah, But
I also think, like you need to show the courts
when we make a mistake, we'll fix it or else
the courts are going to be like, well, then you
have to do this perfectly, and they can't do it perfectly.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right, there's no perfect Yeah, where it's very hard to
achieve perfect. Yeah, they're in a mind and I'd like
to see them fix it instead of continuing to dig
this hole.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, I agree, and they, like I said, he can
be deported elsewhere, but he has to go through a process.
And the people who are removed under this Alien Enemies
Act have to have habeas corpus. You know, they can
do it where they're detained, they can't do it anywhere
in the nation and shop forum shop like they have
been doing. That was the Supreme Court decision on that.
(05:29):
This Abrego Garcia case has been to the Supreme Court
already and then it got kicked back down to the
district court to clarify. They had a hearing today and
the conclusion of that is basically like, yeah, you do
need to facilitate him coming back. I'm going to be
more clear about what that means. And probably this thing's
going to Supreme Court again to discuss this guy's face.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Kind Of wonder where they end up on it, because
they seem to give Trump some leeway on this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, I think they're trying to thread a needle. But
I think there is a risk in them if they're
not clear enough that Trump then has a standoff with
these district courts and like the where then where are you?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But I think I'm very sympathetic to people who are like,
so we're going to do an individual hearing for every
single person who's in this country illegally, and that does
become a nightmare scenario. And there was no rule of
law when people were flowing over the border at tens
of thousands a day.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
That's the best point right there. There was no rule
of law then, but now it has to be to
the absolute letter of law, and that's a little ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It's very frustrating. Yeah, and yet then I you know,
I watched the Oval Office where he's meeting with Bukele,
who I actually talked to a friend from who worked
in El Salvador for many years, and she said that
the download on Boukele is like people really like him
because he made it safer there. Right. Bukele's line, who
is the l Salvador president in the Oval Office was
(07:04):
people say, I've imprisoned thousands, but I like to think
that I have liberated millions, meaning that the many people
who live in El Salvador now don't have to live
in fear of being murdered as nearly as often as
they were before. And Trump leans over to him and goes,
that's good.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, Trump's like, have you considered printing that on red hats?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So he's he's popular for that reason. He has taken
various democratic processes away or limited them during his crackdown,
but generally he's popular. But he's like kind of a
strong man, kind of dude who made the place a
lot safer. So that's the deal with him. And then
(07:46):
Trump is like, we are exploring the option of sending
violent American criminals to l Salvador.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And I'm like, new right, yeah, oh yes, you know,
to quote my fifteen year old Trump says things, yeah,
and so you know, we'll see what happens. But obviously
we hear it, normally disapprove of.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
That kind of behavior. He's like, Pam's investigating it, and
I assume that PAM will come up with the fact
that that's on constitution.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Right, I believe in PAM.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
So that's what's going on with Raio Garcia. Yeah, I
will say that there was one there was one poll
this week that showed a lot of slippage for Trump
among independent voters. And I think between too much of
this plus tariffs and like sort of the chaos in
the market, you run a risk of getting in real
(08:41):
bad political water with that demographic.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Especially, Yeah, the tariff thing. You know, it's so tough
because it changes so often, as we've discussed on here.
That's I think what the real problem is for a
lot of people. People can't plan, they can't think ahead.
And I think that the sense was Trump would take
office and things would be so much better in the economy,
(09:06):
specifically that this has been a shock to a lot
of systems. It still could go great. Ultimately, it could
still work itself out. The stock market's doing better, all
of that, but they need to have some sort of
cohesion going forward to not have this disarray.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I will say, however, if those independents were watching Joe
Biden's first time out since the election, they would have
been reminded why so many people and they themselves voted
for Trump. Because here's the beginning of his speech. Delaware,
like Maryland, was one of those states, a slave state.
We had all the vestiges of what was going on
(09:48):
back in the day. We were one of those states
that still I remember moving from Scranton, Pennsylvania, down to Wilmington, Delaware.
When Cola died. My dad moved back to where here.
I can't even do this, it's too gay, God suo painful.
He I believe uses the word colored at one point mm.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Hm color yep. He saw them on a bus.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Colored kids on a bus. They never turned right to
go to claim Out high school. I wondered why, I
asked Mom, why why? So in Delaware they're not allowed
to go to school in public schools with white kids. Honey.
That sparked my sense of outrageous kid, just like if
they're I mean, and these young kids right here can
tell you things affect them when they learn about something
that's really just unfair and unjust. And that was the opener.
(10:30):
That was the opener, Carol, I gipped half of.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It right that is. Yeah, you're like, thank you Donald
Trump for being here.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I was on Guy Benson's show a few days ago
and he asked me, as a first time Trump voter,
how I thought things were going, and I said, you know,
there were only two options, and the other option was
unacceptable to me. So I'm not going to agree with
everything with Donald Trump. You and I are open about
that fact. Where not sycophants. We're gonna call it as
(11:03):
we see it. But would I at any point trade
him for Kamala Harris or Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I would not. No, I mean that's that's really something else.
The man is still showing that patented Biden judgment by
coming out and giving that speech today.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I mean people are asking for it, right. Somebody was like, hey,
let's get Joe Biden up on that stage.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh man. And at one point I was watching a
streamer watch him, which is a thing we do in
this house, and I look up and he's just cracking up.
The streamer is, and then Joe Biden starts screaming in
that yelly way, yelly angry man way that he does,
and the streamer goes, oh, he found caps lock. So
that was Biden's re emergence.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
We'll be right back on normally. In other Trump news,
Donald Trump has frozen more than two point two billion
dollars to Harvard University. And not to quote my fifteen
year old too much, but she saw this headline over
my shoulder, and she said, why was giving Harvard two
(12:11):
point two billions? She's really, why is that?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Teen? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And I also don't understand how we've let this go
on for so long, where these schools with these giant endowments,
who charge close to one hundred thousand dollars a year
per student are taking this kind of tax payer money.
I just think it's unacceptable and.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
This, Yeah, why did we ever get here?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It makes no sense. Look, the money was frozen because
they want certain demands from Harvard about how to protect
Jewish students on campus. The New York Post posted some
pictures of Jewish students being harassed during these protests that
were going on, and Harvard said, no, we're not going
(12:56):
to do that. We're not going to protect Jewish kids
on campus. We are going to forego this money, and
people are praising it. Barack Obama is praising, praising Harvard
for standing up and saying no, we will not stop
the anti semitism on our campus.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Well, because active violations have gone on on these campuses
that should be like civil rights prosecutions right at UCLA,
especially that there was the actual checkpoint to see if
you were Jewish, which is a nice touch. Somewhere like Columbia,
they're holding people hostage, they're occupying buildings like they're there's
(13:34):
they're preventing people from going class, threatening them all sorts
of stuff. And so I know there's some who are
like that there are concerns with how you do this,
and I'm like, here's how you do it. Any private
university that has an endowment over one billion dollars gets nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
And then you know what, it's not content based. We're
not we're not pulling the strings based on what your
thoughts are. And then you go after him on the
civil rights stuff as well, because they absolutely deserve it.
Piers Morgan made a great point where he was talking
about the activity on these campuses and he's like, so
you're telling me that if the man who was sent
(14:17):
down to the Louisiana facility and then the court said
he could be deported, the Columbia guy with the green car,
So you're telling me, imagine this was a white supremacist
who had been threatening black students in the exact same
ways for this period of time, and you're telling me
this country would be like, oh, we must save him
because of his speech rights, right, Like he's involved in
(14:42):
criminal and threatening behavior.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah to other students exactly. Colin Wright, he tweets at
swipe right. His comment on this was really good. He
said Harvard is free to keep its racist policies, just
not on the taxpayer's dime. All funding comes with strings,
just like all funding. If they don't like the strings,
they're free to reject the money, which they appear to
(15:08):
be doing.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So the left's argument on a lot of this, And
there are some like really consistent free speech people who
make this argument, and I am willing to listen to
the consistent ones. Sure, but there's this thing with both
the immigration and the academic institutions where it's like, okay,
so let me get this string. You get to come
here illegal immigrants, do whatever you want. We're giving you
(15:32):
all sorts of benefits, and then we can't remove you, right,
that's the deal. And then with colleges, it's like, okay,
so we're going to give you billions of dollars, you
do whatever you want, and then we can't take the
money back.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Right, Like, yeah, none of that makes sense elective, that's right.
And so I mentioned Barack Obama his comment on it,
praising Harvard was Harvard has set an example for other
higher ed institutions, rejecting an unlawful and handhanded attempt to
stifle academic freedom while taking concrete steps to make sure
(16:07):
all students at Harvard can benefit from an environment of
intellectual inquiry, rigorous debate, and mutual respect. Let's hope other
institutions follow suit. When did Harvard have rigorous debate? When
was this intellectual inquiry? I have completely missed the mutual respect. So,
I mean, he's just this is nonsense. He knows that
(16:28):
this isn't true. He knows what the real situation is,
and he's just defending a liberal institution.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Just give me my money back, that's all. That's all
I want. Yeah, just give me my money back.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I don't know. I think this is one of those
issues where Trump is on the side of most Americans,
and I think that most Americans will be like my
teenager hearing for the first time that we give this
kind of money to these schools and under.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Why do we do that?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
And for those people saying, you know, all universities get
money like this, this is just how it works, well a,
this is not how it should work, would be. Let
me tell you about Hillsdale College in Michigan. So they
don't really are They're having so much fun. I love Hillsdale.
I did a fellowship there last year. I loved it.
(17:23):
But the fact that they don't accept money from the
federal government and they don't alter anything because of that,
and they don't have to worry about who which administration's
in and which one likes them or doesn't or any
of that. You want to be free of strings, that's
how you do it.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, Yeah, that's how you do it. I don't know.
They're also doing the recisions for NPR and PBS, and
I'm just so on board with that. Yeah, this insane
idea that like, oh no, there will be no children's
programming if there's no PBS come on, while there's like
(18:00):
just just dreams of new streaming products per day. And
also that the NPR folks, much like Ivy League academics,
are some of the most affluent people in this country
and they can just buy more tote bags and fund
them more instead of making me do it. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I don't know why we'd be funding any of it.
People always say, oh, but it's just such a small amount,
but why should it be anything.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, if it's such a I believe in you.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Right, yeah, absolutely, If you're going to fund anything, I
think it should be this podcast called Normally. Yeah, send
Lass your federal money please.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, that's the thing like we would never dream. It's
so funny to me what we're finding out. And I
knew that, yeah existed, I know, I didn't know as
much of it existed as this. Like on the left,
they wouldn't blink an eye thinking, oh, we do have
this very edifying podcast, and we should go ask the
federal gent to slink us in on one of these,
(19:03):
on one of these.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Now we've been paying for all of this.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
We've been paying for all of this.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah, get that cash.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I don't know works of podcasting to pay for the
other podcasters and nonprofits.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I want to get out of these salt mines. Mary Catherine.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Smallest violin for us all that. Yeah, I'm easy, easy cal.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
We're going to take a short break and come right
back with normally. Well. Our last topic today is there
was a blockbuster article in the New York Times about
how we are thinking about ADHD all wrong. I think
(19:45):
you and I are similar where I think we've self
diagnosed as HDHD. I mean I have a lot of
things where when I read about people who have ADHD,
I'm like, I totally have all of that, but I've
never I've never had any issues. I'll just say so
I've remember hating challenges, and I've never been diagnosed in
any way, but I could see myself having this.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, so I have an official diagnosis now. But for
you too, it was like for years I was like, uh, well,
a lot of these things do sort of line up,
and what I discovered and this is actually this actually
speaks to the thesis of this piece, which is worth
reading in full just because it's fascinating about our culture,
because we have like this explosion of people being diagnosed,
(20:30):
particularly young men, and part of that is like maybe
they're just an environment that's not working with their brains,
and so you're just sort of medicating them into complacency
instead of actually solving a medical problem. But one of
the things I realized is like, I work in this
business where I'm either on a writing deadline, or I
(20:52):
have to speak on a stage, or I have to
be on live TV. And the reason I do this
job is because the only time my brain works, not
the only time works, but when.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It works whatevers, well, yeah, is.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
When I have twenty minutes before I have to get
on stage and everything just goes right.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I'm never better than under pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Then I can function and I think that is basically
a career built on self medicating.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Right, But what do you you don't you don't. Actually,
the self medicating is the career, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, No, it's the adrenaline. And that's what the thesis
of this piece is that maybe ADHD should not be
seen as just like a brain disorder, but as something
that is part of who you are and in fact
thrives in the right circumstances, and that you need to
be a little flexible about finding those circumstances, as opposed
(21:50):
to always making yourself sit in a chair for eight
hours to do the work. And what they've found is
that a lot of kids who had ADHD diagnoses when
they were little, as they became older and they were
more flexible and able to get jobs that worked better
for them, their symptoms dissipated, right, or that they felt better. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
So the New York Times actually had a separate piece
summing up the research, and they had this paragraph, which
I think is what you're saying. ADHD is usually portrayed
primarily as a medical condition, a neurodevelopmental disorder with a
genetic cause, which is why we often look first to
medication to treat it, but researchers are now discovering that
(22:32):
ADHD symptoms can be highly responsive to the environment as well.
When the surroundings of a person with an ADHD diagnosis
improve a more engaging classroom, a more stimulating job, a
more congenial home life, his symptoms often improve as well.
And not to minimize anybody going through anything, but I've
(22:53):
often thought that this is similar to depression, that people
sometimes are depressed in certain situations, and when they're out
of that situation, the depression lifts. Again, I'm not a doctor.
I'm not saying that ADHD or depression or any of
that is not real. It is real, but it could
be cured with more than medicine.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right well, and you know, I try to. It's hereditary,
so we have to, or so they think, you know,
like the science is evolving here because there isn't actually
a real like test or biomarker for this thing. But
I'll just say that one of my children has similar
tendencies to me. Yeah, right, and so I do a
lot of reading about how to improve things for her.
(23:37):
And one of the things that improves the symptoms is
having a structured day and having a structured things that
she can expect and that she knows, so she's not
sort of scattered looking around for things all the time.
And so it actually helps that I am married to
my opposites attract husband. It is extremely strong, sure, and
(24:00):
it gives her the gift of I know where my
things are, the day is planned for me, I get
where I need to be next, and that lets her,
that lets her thrive in a different way. We also
do keep the screen time low because for all kids,
but I think especially for those with attention issues can
become a problem.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I think that it's funny because I think we went
through a period where we talked about screens a lot,
and now we don't talk about it as much. We
don't talk about not not you and I, but our society.
I feel like we went through a time where we
were like, yeah, we can't have these kids be on
the screens, and then everyone just gave up. I think
pandemic probably was well de yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
And I think Jonathan hates the anxious generation has made
it interested again.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
My thing with that is that I think that the
kids use screens in a totally different way now, and
they use it, they use it like many televisions and
I talk about this and I write about this. This
is this is one of my pet peeve issues where
they use the TV. They used the phone as a
mini television, and I do too. I watch little clips
(25:08):
all the time. I watched, you know, reels, little I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I don't know on.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
TikTok, but they are essentially tiktoks. And I think that
they're using it in a in a not social media
way anymore. And that's the difference.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, I think, uh, when because I hear parents talk
about it a lot, because there were a lot of
people who had to have their kids on a bunch
of shares during the pandemic, I was yeah, or they
just had to work so they had to do what
they had to do. Sure, I will say that if
you if you cold turkey your kids for a while,
(25:44):
you will see behavior improvements, for sure. Yeah. And it's
sort of, uh, it's like one of the it's like
many parenting things were, like climbing the mountain is hard, right,
once you get to come down, you've made your life
easier by working hard in that way.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Absolutely, Yeah, that's really it. You've solved your kids adhd well.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I do think this piece feels a little vibe shifty
because it was like it has a bit of a
maha message. Yeah, like, hey, maybe we shouldn't be medicating
our kids to extent. And that's not to say that
some kids do not need it, some do, right, yes,
but yes, to consider the evidence and to say one
(26:27):
of the founders, like one of the standby guys of
ADHD studying and the main scientist who undertook the first
randomized control trial in this, I didn't know this. He's like,
the benefits are good for a year, right, for twelve months,
for six months, eight months a year, but if you
(26:48):
check thirty six months later, there's no difference in the
control group that's not getting yeah medication versus the one
that is. And I had never heard that before, and
I like to have that information absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I wonder if this changes anything with how this is diagnosed.
But I feel like this kind of thing takes a
while to shift, and you're right, it is a vibe shift.
Something is different here about them being able to say this,
and you know, here normally we're glad they're telling the truth.
That's really all that we want to hear. We'll see
where it goes. From there. Thanks for joining us on
normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe
(27:23):
anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us
at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and
when things get weird, act normally
Yeah, I agree. Back on normally the show with it's
normally she takes but when the news gets weird. I
am Mary Katherine. And by the way, Happy path.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Over and Happy Easter are celebrating this week, Thank you,
Mary Catherine, and I am Carol Markowitz. And it is
a crazy week with the kids off from school. Are
you feeling it over there?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yes, we have the kids home as well. And I
was doing some Easter clothing shopping. We do try to
get a little some special stuff for the kids for Easter.
And you'll appreciate this. When I was wandering through a
store and I was like, I'm not going to get
my oldest new shoes. She's fine new shoes.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And I stumbled on in like Nordstrom rack a pair
of tiny women's the right size for her, bubblegum pink
pat and leather loafers and I do not, I must
buy these.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You must let me know they have them in my size.
I could seriously use some bubblegum pink.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I will send them along if I could find them.
I was like, how is this real? You're getting new
shoes girl, So well, that's happening. That made everybody happy.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, I mean, nothing makes me happier than shoes. Actually
my favorite thing to buy.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So here we are on another normal week. Yeah right,
you're going super normally. The biggest story continues to be
this man they refer to him as Maryland Maryland father,
Kilmar Abrago Garcia accidentally deported to El Salvador. You know what,
(01:45):
Actually I don't know. Maybe you don't know. Let's discuss
how is he accidentally deported?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So this is the part where the Trump administration runs
into a problem because they have admitted in court documents
that they made a clerical error that men he got
on this plane to El Salvador. He was part of
a group that was rounded up to potentially be on
these planes. And then someone realized that at some point
this man who although he was adjudicated possibly MS thirteen
(02:14):
by an immigration judge in twenty nineteen, he did have
what is it called, there's some sort of protection status
he was given that did not allow him to be
sent back to El Salvador because of gang threats to
him allegedly in his home country. But isn't that what
(02:35):
they all say? Well, yes, but the problem was that
that protective status was given by the Trump during the
Trump administration, the last.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
One that's going to leave the mark, Right.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, so he had this thing. Now, it doesn't change
the fact that he was definitely an illegal immigrant in
this country. I've looked at the government's evidence that he
was in thirteen. It's it doesn't seem like a ton
But I'm like of the mind that he definitely shouldn't
be sent to a prison in El Salvador, Right, And
(03:10):
if we had an order that said he should not
be sent to El Salvador, we can deport him, and
we should, but we've got to send him somewhere else, right.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
The thing that's sort of odd about this is I
have never seen Democrats fight harder for any lives in
their lives as they have for this person who was
in the United States legally and was possibly an MS
thirteen gang member.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm with you, if they.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Made a mistake, they should fix it. I don't see
the problem with simply deporting him to El Salvador and
not to the prison there El Salvador. Figure it out
from there. But there is there's just a marked thing
with the Democrats where they are fighting for him in
a way that I have never seen them fight for anything.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, and you know, same with the Columbia card guy
who was down in Louisiana who a court did say,
like he can be deported. Yeah, someone rightly made the
point that Chris van Holland, who's like, I need to
meet directly with this head of state to talk about
this man, you know, releases perfunctory statements about the murder
(04:19):
of his own citizens at the hands of illegal immigrants. Right, right,
there is a marked difference, and that is something that
you know, I think American citizens will give him quite
a bit of leeway on the immigration stuff because he
has had immense success at the border and frankly, Biden
intentionally created a problem so large that correcting it is
(04:40):
going to have mistakes, right, but that's it. Yeah, But
I also think, like you need to show the courts
when we make a mistake, we'll fix it or else
the courts are going to be like, well, then you
have to do this perfectly, and they can't do it perfectly.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right, there's no perfect Yeah, where it's very hard to
achieve perfect. Yeah, they're in a mind and I'd like
to see them fix it instead of continuing to dig
this hole.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, I agree, and they, like I said, he can
be deported elsewhere, but he has to go through a process.
And the people who are removed under this Alien Enemies
Act have to have habeas corpus. You know, they can
do it where they're detained, they can't do it anywhere
in the nation and shop forum shop like they have
been doing. That was the Supreme Court decision on that.
(05:29):
This Abrego Garcia case has been to the Supreme Court
already and then it got kicked back down to the
district court to clarify. They had a hearing today and
the conclusion of that is basically like, yeah, you do
need to facilitate him coming back. I'm going to be
more clear about what that means. And probably this thing's
going to Supreme Court again to discuss this guy's face.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Kind Of wonder where they end up on it, because
they seem to give Trump some leeway on this kind
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, I think they're trying to thread a needle. But
I think there is a risk in them if they're
not clear enough that Trump then has a standoff with
these district courts and like the where then where are you?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But I think I'm very sympathetic to people who are like,
so we're going to do an individual hearing for every
single person who's in this country illegally, and that does
become a nightmare scenario. And there was no rule of
law when people were flowing over the border at tens
of thousands a day.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
That's the best point right there. There was no rule
of law then, but now it has to be to
the absolute letter of law, and that's a little ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It's very frustrating. Yeah, and yet then I you know,
I watched the Oval Office where he's meeting with Bukele,
who I actually talked to a friend from who worked
in El Salvador for many years, and she said that
the download on Boukele is like people really like him
because he made it safer there. Right. Bukele's line, who
is the l Salvador president in the Oval Office was
(07:04):
people say, I've imprisoned thousands, but I like to think
that I have liberated millions, meaning that the many people
who live in El Salvador now don't have to live
in fear of being murdered as nearly as often as
they were before. And Trump leans over to him and goes,
that's good.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, Trump's like, have you considered printing that on red hats?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So he's he's popular for that reason. He has taken
various democratic processes away or limited them during his crackdown,
but generally he's popular. But he's like kind of a
strong man, kind of dude who made the place a
lot safer. So that's the deal with him. And then
(07:46):
Trump is like, we are exploring the option of sending
violent American criminals to l Salvador.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And I'm like, new right, yeah, oh yes, you know,
to quote my fifteen year old Trump says things, yeah,
and so you know, we'll see what happens. But obviously
we hear it, normally disapprove of.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
That kind of behavior. He's like, Pam's investigating it, and
I assume that PAM will come up with the fact
that that's on constitution.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Right, I believe in PAM.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
So that's what's going on with Raio Garcia. Yeah, I
will say that there was one there was one poll
this week that showed a lot of slippage for Trump
among independent voters. And I think between too much of
this plus tariffs and like sort of the chaos in
the market, you run a risk of getting in real
(08:41):
bad political water with that demographic.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Especially, Yeah, the tariff thing. You know, it's so tough
because it changes so often, as we've discussed on here.
That's I think what the real problem is for a
lot of people. People can't plan, they can't think ahead.
And I think that the sense was Trump would take
office and things would be so much better in the economy,
(09:06):
specifically that this has been a shock to a lot
of systems. It still could go great. Ultimately, it could
still work itself out. The stock market's doing better, all
of that, but they need to have some sort of
cohesion going forward to not have this disarray.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I will say, however, if those independents were watching Joe
Biden's first time out since the election, they would have
been reminded why so many people and they themselves voted
for Trump. Because here's the beginning of his speech. Delaware,
like Maryland, was one of those states, a slave state.
We had all the vestiges of what was going on
(09:48):
back in the day. We were one of those states
that still I remember moving from Scranton, Pennsylvania, down to Wilmington, Delaware.
When Cola died. My dad moved back to where here.
I can't even do this, it's too gay, God suo painful.
He I believe uses the word colored at one point mm.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Hm color yep. He saw them on a bus.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Colored kids on a bus. They never turned right to
go to claim Out high school. I wondered why, I
asked Mom, why why? So in Delaware they're not allowed
to go to school in public schools with white kids. Honey.
That sparked my sense of outrageous kid, just like if
they're I mean, and these young kids right here can
tell you things affect them when they learn about something
that's really just unfair and unjust. And that was the opener.
(10:30):
That was the opener, Carol, I gipped half of.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It right that is. Yeah, you're like, thank you Donald
Trump for being here.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I was on Guy Benson's show a few days ago
and he asked me, as a first time Trump voter,
how I thought things were going, and I said, you know,
there were only two options, and the other option was
unacceptable to me. So I'm not going to agree with
everything with Donald Trump. You and I are open about
that fact. Where not sycophants. We're gonna call it as
(11:03):
we see it. But would I at any point trade
him for Kamala Harris or Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I would not. No, I mean that's that's really something else.
The man is still showing that patented Biden judgment by
coming out and giving that speech today.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I mean people are asking for it, right. Somebody was like, hey,
let's get Joe Biden up on that stage.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh man. And at one point I was watching a
streamer watch him, which is a thing we do in
this house, and I look up and he's just cracking up.
The streamer is, and then Joe Biden starts screaming in
that yelly way, yelly angry man way that he does,
and the streamer goes, oh, he found caps lock. So
that was Biden's re emergence.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
We'll be right back on normally. In other Trump news,
Donald Trump has frozen more than two point two billion
dollars to Harvard University. And not to quote my fifteen
year old too much, but she saw this headline over
my shoulder, and she said, why was giving Harvard two
(12:11):
point two billions? She's really, why is that?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Teen? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And I also don't understand how we've let this go
on for so long, where these schools with these giant endowments,
who charge close to one hundred thousand dollars a year
per student are taking this kind of tax payer money.
I just think it's unacceptable and.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
This, Yeah, why did we ever get here?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
It makes no sense. Look, the money was frozen because
they want certain demands from Harvard about how to protect
Jewish students on campus. The New York Post posted some
pictures of Jewish students being harassed during these protests that
were going on, and Harvard said, no, we're not going
(12:56):
to do that. We're not going to protect Jewish kids
on campus. We are going to forego this money, and
people are praising it. Barack Obama is praising, praising Harvard
for standing up and saying no, we will not stop
the anti semitism on our campus.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Well, because active violations have gone on on these campuses
that should be like civil rights prosecutions right at UCLA,
especially that there was the actual checkpoint to see if
you were Jewish, which is a nice touch. Somewhere like Columbia,
they're holding people hostage, they're occupying buildings like they're there's
(13:34):
they're preventing people from going class, threatening them all sorts
of stuff. And so I know there's some who are
like that there are concerns with how you do this,
and I'm like, here's how you do it. Any private
university that has an endowment over one billion dollars gets nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
And then you know what, it's not content based. We're
not we're not pulling the strings based on what your
thoughts are. And then you go after him on the
civil rights stuff as well, because they absolutely deserve it.
Piers Morgan made a great point where he was talking
about the activity on these campuses and he's like, so
you're telling me that if the man who was sent
(14:17):
down to the Louisiana facility and then the court said
he could be deported, the Columbia guy with the green car,
So you're telling me, imagine this was a white supremacist
who had been threatening black students in the exact same
ways for this period of time, and you're telling me
this country would be like, oh, we must save him
because of his speech rights, right, Like he's involved in
(14:42):
criminal and threatening behavior.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah to other students exactly. Colin Wright, he tweets at
swipe right. His comment on this was really good. He
said Harvard is free to keep its racist policies, just
not on the taxpayer's dime. All funding comes with strings,
just like all funding. If they don't like the strings,
they're free to reject the money, which they appear to
(15:08):
be doing.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So the left's argument on a lot of this, And
there are some like really consistent free speech people who
make this argument, and I am willing to listen to
the consistent ones. Sure, but there's this thing with both
the immigration and the academic institutions where it's like, okay,
so let me get this string. You get to come
here illegal immigrants, do whatever you want. We're giving you
(15:32):
all sorts of benefits, and then we can't remove you, right,
that's the deal. And then with colleges, it's like, okay,
so we're going to give you billions of dollars, you
do whatever you want, and then we can't take the
money back.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Right, Like, yeah, none of that makes sense elective, that's right.
And so I mentioned Barack Obama his comment on it,
praising Harvard was Harvard has set an example for other
higher ed institutions, rejecting an unlawful and handhanded attempt to
stifle academic freedom while taking concrete steps to make sure
(16:07):
all students at Harvard can benefit from an environment of
intellectual inquiry, rigorous debate, and mutual respect. Let's hope other
institutions follow suit. When did Harvard have rigorous debate? When
was this intellectual inquiry? I have completely missed the mutual respect. So,
I mean, he's just this is nonsense. He knows that
(16:28):
this isn't true. He knows what the real situation is,
and he's just defending a liberal institution.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Just give me my money back, that's all. That's all
I want. Yeah, just give me my money back.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I don't know. I think this is one of those
issues where Trump is on the side of most Americans,
and I think that most Americans will be like my
teenager hearing for the first time that we give this
kind of money to these schools and under.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Why do we do that?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
And for those people saying, you know, all universities get
money like this, this is just how it works, well a,
this is not how it should work, would be. Let
me tell you about Hillsdale College in Michigan. So they
don't really are They're having so much fun. I love Hillsdale.
I did a fellowship there last year. I loved it.
(17:23):
But the fact that they don't accept money from the
federal government and they don't alter anything because of that,
and they don't have to worry about who which administration's
in and which one likes them or doesn't or any
of that. You want to be free of strings, that's
how you do it.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, Yeah, that's how you do it. I don't know.
They're also doing the recisions for NPR and PBS, and
I'm just so on board with that. Yeah, this insane
idea that like, oh no, there will be no children's
programming if there's no PBS come on, while there's like
(18:00):
just just dreams of new streaming products per day. And
also that the NPR folks, much like Ivy League academics,
are some of the most affluent people in this country
and they can just buy more tote bags and fund
them more instead of making me do it. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I don't know why we'd be funding any of it.
People always say, oh, but it's just such a small amount,
but why should it be anything.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, if it's such a I believe in you.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Right, yeah, absolutely, If you're going to fund anything, I
think it should be this podcast called Normally. Yeah, send
Lass your federal money please.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, that's the thing like we would never dream. It's
so funny to me what we're finding out. And I
knew that, yeah existed, I know, I didn't know as
much of it existed as this. Like on the left,
they wouldn't blink an eye thinking, oh, we do have
this very edifying podcast, and we should go ask the
federal gent to slink us in on one of these,
(19:03):
on one of these.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Now we've been paying for all of this.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
We've been paying for all of this.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah, get that cash.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I don't know works of podcasting to pay for the
other podcasters and nonprofits.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I want to get out of these salt mines. Mary Catherine.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Smallest violin for us all that. Yeah, I'm easy, easy cal.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
We're going to take a short break and come right
back with normally. Well. Our last topic today is there
was a blockbuster article in the New York Times about
how we are thinking about ADHD all wrong. I think
(19:45):
you and I are similar where I think we've self
diagnosed as HDHD. I mean I have a lot of
things where when I read about people who have ADHD,
I'm like, I totally have all of that, but I've
never I've never had any issues. I'll just say so
I've remember hating challenges, and I've never been diagnosed in
any way, but I could see myself having this.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, so I have an official diagnosis now. But for
you too, it was like for years I was like, uh, well,
a lot of these things do sort of line up,
and what I discovered and this is actually this actually
speaks to the thesis of this piece, which is worth
reading in full just because it's fascinating about our culture,
because we have like this explosion of people being diagnosed,
(20:30):
particularly young men, and part of that is like maybe
they're just an environment that's not working with their brains,
and so you're just sort of medicating them into complacency
instead of actually solving a medical problem. But one of
the things I realized is like, I work in this
business where I'm either on a writing deadline, or I
(20:52):
have to speak on a stage, or I have to
be on live TV. And the reason I do this
job is because the only time my brain works, not
the only time works, but when.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It works whatevers, well, yeah, is.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
When I have twenty minutes before I have to get
on stage and everything just goes right.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I'm never better than under pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Then I can function and I think that is basically
a career built on self medicating.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Right, But what do you you don't you don't. Actually,
the self medicating is the career, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, No, it's the adrenaline. And that's what the thesis
of this piece is that maybe ADHD should not be
seen as just like a brain disorder, but as something
that is part of who you are and in fact
thrives in the right circumstances, and that you need to
be a little flexible about finding those circumstances, as opposed
(21:50):
to always making yourself sit in a chair for eight
hours to do the work. And what they've found is
that a lot of kids who had ADHD diagnoses when
they were little, as they became older and they were
more flexible and able to get jobs that worked better
for them, their symptoms dissipated, right, or that they felt better. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
So the New York Times actually had a separate piece
summing up the research, and they had this paragraph, which
I think is what you're saying. ADHD is usually portrayed
primarily as a medical condition, a neurodevelopmental disorder with a
genetic cause, which is why we often look first to
medication to treat it, but researchers are now discovering that
(22:32):
ADHD symptoms can be highly responsive to the environment as well.
When the surroundings of a person with an ADHD diagnosis
improve a more engaging classroom, a more stimulating job, a
more congenial home life, his symptoms often improve as well.
And not to minimize anybody going through anything, but I've
(22:53):
often thought that this is similar to depression, that people
sometimes are depressed in certain situations, and when they're out
of that situation, the depression lifts. Again, I'm not a doctor.
I'm not saying that ADHD or depression or any of
that is not real. It is real, but it could
be cured with more than medicine.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right well, and you know, I try to. It's hereditary,
so we have to, or so they think, you know,
like the science is evolving here because there isn't actually
a real like test or biomarker for this thing. But
I'll just say that one of my children has similar
tendencies to me. Yeah, right, and so I do a
lot of reading about how to improve things for her.
(23:37):
And one of the things that improves the symptoms is
having a structured day and having a structured things that
she can expect and that she knows, so she's not
sort of scattered looking around for things all the time.
And so it actually helps that I am married to
my opposites attract husband. It is extremely strong, sure, and
(24:00):
it gives her the gift of I know where my
things are, the day is planned for me, I get
where I need to be next, and that lets her,
that lets her thrive in a different way. We also
do keep the screen time low because for all kids,
but I think especially for those with attention issues can
become a problem.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I think that it's funny because I think we went
through a period where we talked about screens a lot,
and now we don't talk about it as much. We
don't talk about not not you and I, but our society.
I feel like we went through a time where we
were like, yeah, we can't have these kids be on
the screens, and then everyone just gave up. I think
pandemic probably was well de yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
And I think Jonathan hates the anxious generation has made
it interested again.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
My thing with that is that I think that the
kids use screens in a totally different way now, and
they use it, they use it like many televisions and
I talk about this and I write about this. This
is this is one of my pet peeve issues where
they use the TV. They used the phone as a
mini television, and I do too. I watch little clips
(25:08):
all the time. I watched, you know, reels, little I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I don't know on.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
TikTok, but they are essentially tiktoks. And I think that
they're using it in a in a not social media
way anymore. And that's the difference.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, I think, uh, when because I hear parents talk
about it a lot, because there were a lot of
people who had to have their kids on a bunch
of shares during the pandemic, I was yeah, or they
just had to work so they had to do what
they had to do. Sure, I will say that if
you if you cold turkey your kids for a while,
(25:44):
you will see behavior improvements, for sure. Yeah. And it's
sort of, uh, it's like one of the it's like
many parenting things were, like climbing the mountain is hard, right,
once you get to come down, you've made your life
easier by working hard in that way.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Absolutely, Yeah, that's really it. You've solved your kids adhd well.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I do think this piece feels a little vibe shifty
because it was like it has a bit of a
maha message. Yeah, like, hey, maybe we shouldn't be medicating
our kids to extent. And that's not to say that
some kids do not need it, some do, right, yes,
but yes, to consider the evidence and to say one
(26:27):
of the founders, like one of the standby guys of
ADHD studying and the main scientist who undertook the first
randomized control trial in this, I didn't know this. He's like,
the benefits are good for a year, right, for twelve months,
for six months, eight months a year, but if you
(26:48):
check thirty six months later, there's no difference in the
control group that's not getting yeah medication versus the one
that is. And I had never heard that before, and
I like to have that information absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I wonder if this changes anything with how this is diagnosed.
But I feel like this kind of thing takes a
while to shift, and you're right, it is a vibe shift.
Something is different here about them being able to say this,
and you know, here normally we're glad they're telling the truth.
That's really all that we want to hear. We'll see
where it goes. From there. Thanks for joining us on
normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe
(27:23):
anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us
at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and
when things get weird, act normally
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