February 20, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz discuss various political topics, including the implications of Elon Musk's actions on federal employees, the shifting political landscape among young voters, and the challenges faced by New York Mayor Eric Adams amidst corruption allegations. They explore the media's portrayal of these issues and the broader impact on public trust in government. Normally is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Tuesday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, yeah, as welcome back to normally the show with
normalist takes for when the news gets weird. I am
Mary Catherine Ham.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm Carol markoitz him. Mary Catherine, how's it going.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's all right. It's still freezing here. I know you
don't have to deal with this, but I'm actually going
to escape to Florida next week, so I will see you,
I know, a brief time in person.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We're excited about that. And I hope the weather. You know,
it's like seventy one today. I hope it warms up
for you, because this is clearly unacceptable, unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'll be so cold when I get there, Oh my gosh. Yes,
I'll survive.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I hope. So I really do bring a sweater. In
any case, I'm wearing a sweater for for those watching it.
So you know, we talked about the sixty minutes episode
last show, and yet there was more to say about
that episode that we didn't cover that I think we
need to get into. On this episode, they had on
(00:58):
two people who aim to be USAID employees and the
claim to be that's going to feature into this complaining
about how Elon Musk is shutting down their their work
and doing it really haphazardly. Apparently, according to them, let's
(01:18):
roll the short clip.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
People are really scared.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I think that you know, twelve days ago, people knew
where their next paycheck was coming from. They knew how
they were going to pay for their kids' takecare, their
medical bills, and then all gone.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Overnight, All gone overnight. For Christina Dry and Adam Dubard
fired this month in the chaotic shutdown of foreign aid
distributed by the US Agency for International Development USAID, more
than eight thousand USAID employees were sent home by the administration.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
They're not looking for covenancy.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
They're not looking for if you're good at your job.
They're looking for peer loyalty tests and if you don't
give it you you will be punished.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And they had to leave the building. And these are
folks who had decades and decades of public service serving
USAID across administrations from you know, George Bush to Obama
to the first Trump administration. And they were never able
to walk back in the building again.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
There was no process, No one explained to them why
they were being relieved.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
To my knowledge, they received an email and then if
they didn't leave the building, they were escorted out of
the building.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Interesting because it turns out that these two were not
employees of USAID. They were consultants who were never actually employees.
Therefore they could not be fired for their lack of loyalty.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So Christina Dry in particular, In particular, it turns out
was a consultant and in the capacity largely as a
close confidant and speech writer for Samantha Power. This is
a political position, Okay, There's two different kinds of positions
in the federal government. There are the civil service ones
that are intended to be more neutral and to cross
(03:11):
over several administrations, although in practice they end up being
quite political, just only to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
The left of course. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Then there are political appointees who every time there's a switch,
they change out. That is the custom, that is the
proper way to do things. So Christina Dry was going
to lose that job regardless. And then she's painting herself
as not only a USAID employee or implying that she
is one, but also like a career civil servant, right,
(03:40):
which is not the case. In sixty minutes, isn't telling
you the truth about her? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Also, she was on video the week before as she
was being interviewed also outside of the USAID offices, saying
that she removed a bunch of things from the office
as Doge was coming in, like pride flags or books
they may not like, or other things like that she
said she took out of the building. Hmm. You know,
(04:07):
I can't imagine why.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I empathize with the fact that there are a lot
of people whose lives and finances might be disrupted, yes,
by Doje's actions. Right, what she's relating here is just
what it looks like to get laid off any other place.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
This is what many Americans have experienced in the past.
One day, you know exactly what's happening in your life,
and the next day you don't. Sometimes, and it's not
to say that I'm celebrating that for people, but this
is a normal process that regular people go through. People
in civil service do not have the same experience because
they have extra protections, and the Trump administration is going
(04:47):
to test those protections as we go through this process.
By the way, did you see in the DC District
Court that Judge shoot Can Who's like the best chance
you're going to get a favorable decision for the civil
servants and the people suing Doge decided against the state's
(05:07):
sewing Doge yesterday. They wanted an emergency temporary restraining order,
saying we will suffer irreparable harm, and shut Can was like,
I can't give it to you because you haven't proved
that this is irreparable harm and that it is eminent.
What you've told me is that media is reporting that
(05:29):
they're going to fire a lot of people, and I'm
not allowed to use media reports and speculation as a
way to temporarily enjoin the executive branch, which like, yeah,
like kind of somebody said, imagine how bad their argument
was if shot Can has to say no. She wanted
to say yes, but in this battle no. There's an
(05:51):
interesting line in here where she says the thing about
sort of saying the quiet part out loud, like I
know you're telling me the media's saying this is happened,
but that's not a substitute for showing me that it's happening,
which is a perfect example of how the left and
the media work together to work against the will of
the electorate. They're like, oh, we made a story, and
(06:12):
therefore you should enjoin the executive branch.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Right, Yeah, that's a very interesting point. My friend Joel Engel,
the writer posted on x the sixty thousand people who
got cut loose when the Keystone Excel pipeline extension was
canceled after Biden took office know the feeling, except they
weren't bureaucrats. They were skilled construction workers and engineers. I mean,
people get laid off, and that's what happens a lot
(06:37):
of the time when new administrations take over. And so
also Elon Musk has said that these people are getting
eight months of pay and benefits, so it actually isn't
true that they don't know where their next meal is
coming from.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Well, and to the extent that it's uncertain. One of
the things that's happened is a federal judge has paused
those agreements. Five thousand reportedly have taken the buyout agreement.
But Judge, like I need to see more about this
before we let them do it again. They have protections
that private workers have no idea about, and so we're
(07:12):
going to sort through those. And I'm also open to
the idea that this is haphazard. I think many voters
see this as the only way to make progress in
understanding what's going on, so they're willing to go through that.
I don't want to lose experienced people who are good,
but frankly, a lot of the experienced people in like say, oh,
(07:33):
I don't know public health over the last five years,
have not proved to be knowledgeable or trustworthy or good
at their jobs. And that's a lot of people's experience
of the federal workforce.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That's right. And Dog just posting a lot of the
money that they're canceling on their X account, and it's
stuff like ten million for Mozambique voluntary medical mail circumcision
nine points and for u C. Berkeley to develop a
cohort of Cambodian youth with enterprise driven skills. I mean,
some of it, I'm sure isn't awful, but I just
(08:09):
don't know why we need to be doing biodiversity conversations
in Nepal or social cohesion in Mali or any of
this stuff that sort of just sounds ridiculous. And a
lot of people are realizing that I had a tweet
that I had more se retweeted into my timeline of
minim the d's account. He says, count me as one
(08:31):
of the supporters, much to my surprise. I think a
lot of people recognize that the government needs pruning and
are willing to overlook the occasional errand snip because the
bush is so out of control.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I think that's going to be a lot of people's
take on this, to the point about how they're covering this.
Of course, the media in the District of Columbia area,
certainly everyone who works in media works very closely with
federal employees, right, civil servants in particular, who have been
(09:02):
there for a long time and are arguably deep state
ish and leak all their stuff to the media. Right,
So the media thinks that these are the perfect sympathetic victims.
I think they're misreading, and that doesn't mean that there
aren't victims among them. But I do notice that, for instance,
the Washington Post has like Johnny on the Spot, a
(09:23):
reporter at every town hall for a Virginia politician where
he's getting asked questions about these federal jobs. Because in
Virginia this will make a large difference. The federal workforce
has grown. As it has Virginia has gotten bluer and bluer.
Despite the blip welcome with Youngkin, which may have some
staying power. But Washington Post reporters, they're live tweeting a
(09:45):
local town hall with Representative Vinman so that people can
hear all these sad stories. Not so many national reporters
like in western North Carolina. You know, those victims not
as special as these things.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yepes.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
They didn't really tell a lot of stories from the
Keystone pipeline people being laid off. I didn't really read
a lot of those.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
By the way, I think the AP estimates there are
two point four million federal workers, twenty percent of them
are in the DC area, so it does make a
big economic impact here. Like I said, seventy five k
have accepted the buyout. Reportedly, the VA may have lost
a thousand people, Energy three hundred and fifty HHS and
CDC a couple thousand, but as we note the total
(10:33):
numbers two point four million. Yeah, and a lot of
these jobs. Although they are certainly very important to the
agencies themselves, because the agencies themselves are invested in perpetuating themselves,
it remains to me seeing how important they are to voters, right.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
That is what remains to be seen. We'll see how
much voters care about this. And that's the thing. A
lot of people I've seen kind of people in the
life tweet like alwos you know the voters will feel
this soon, but like will they will they feel this?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I think it's possible you have a phenomenon where voters
feel it in Virginia and Maryland. Although Maryland ain't getting
any bluer like that, one's not going to change. Virginia
could be a place where you see backlash. But again,
it just once again sort of emphasizes that the economic
effects of this are so centralized at the capitol hunger
(11:30):
game style that maybe the regular folks will not be
affected by it.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, it remains to be seen.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
But one more thing, and I'm just going to repeat this.
I know I keep repeating it. This idea that they
have no legal authority is false, right DOJE is the
US Digital Service, which was authorized by Obama. The people
who lead the US Digital Service have been appointed by
the president. I do not believe they were sentate confirmed either.
(12:00):
This idea that a special government employee cannot do anything
is wild, and even shut can is like, actually they
can look at records inside these agencies, right, just as
they've been doing since the Obama administration. Now, letting people
go is the question. And I do think that one
might be a bigger legal question.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And I think you want to talk about voters hearing
that you can't fire government employees. I feel like that's
going to be something that they don't realize is going
to affect.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
People every Yeah, yeah, that's the thing they say. And
again I'm sort of sympathetic to the argument, like, oh,
go at this with a scalpel. Okay, we'd love to,
but you've never let us do it with a scalpel either.
The admonition is always be careful with the bureaucracy. Be
careful with the bureaucracy. Is the bureaucracy ever careful with me?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Never?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Or my money? I would love for them to be.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, they want to know how you spent every penny
last year. They don't want to tell you how they
spent their money new We're going to take a short
break and come right back with normally. So, speaking of
new voters and voting habits shifting, the Atlantic had a
(13:13):
piece about how it could be that the COVID lockdowns
made the young people more right leaning.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, The Atlantic reports you know, for decades, America's young
voters have been deeply and famously progressive. In two thousand
and eight, a youthquake sent Barack Obama to the White House.
In twenty sixteen, voters eighteen to twenty nine broke for
Hillary Clinton by eighteen points. In twenty twenty, they voted
for Joe Biden by twenty four points. In twenty twenty four,
Donald Trump closed most of the gap, losing voters under
(13:43):
thirty by a fifty one to forty seven margin. That
is a five alarm fire startling for Democrats.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I mean, and it's interesting, is it was it
Kamala Harris or is this a permanent shift? Which is
really the question. You know, there was an interesting part
of that Atlantic piece. I really like this that people,
once they change, they really don't change back. They write.
Most famously, so called depression babies who grew up in
(14:13):
the nineteen thirties saved more as adults. And there are
some evidence that corporate managers born in the thirties were
unusually disciplined to take on loans. Perhaps the eighteen to
twenty five Cohort, whose youths were thrown into a people
by COVID will adopt a set of socio political assumptions
that form a new sort of ideology that doesn't quite
(14:33):
have a name yet. Maybe or maybe they're just never
going to trust the government, which is I don't know.
I'm in for that. I'm in for them being skeptical
of everything the government ever tells them.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, that's the thing is that even Derek Thompson, who
I think is better at reporting on this stuff than many.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
He's the one who wrote the Atlantic piece.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
He wrote the Atlantic piece, I do think there's an
inability to recognize just how much government experts betrayed public trust. Yeah,
Like they're just like, oh, the pandemic made them distrustful
because of gestures, you know, generation right, It's like, well,
it was real things that were happening that were making
(15:15):
people say, I think you're full of it. Yeah, and
young people were really damaged by having their milestones taken
from them, and not just that this is what the
left does. It's one step further, take all your stuff
from you and then tell you you're the jerk for complaining
about it.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, you didn't do it good enough, you didn't miss
your prom good enough for them.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You didn't miss your graduation with correct stoicism, because you know,
the left is so good at stoicism, and they got
upset and they should have.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. Look, my kids aren't old enough to vote yet,
but they definitely the takeaway for them of the pandemic
was adults don't know stuff like that was what they
left the last few years thinking, like you know, they
made them eat on the ground at their public schools
in Brooklyn while old people who are at risk of
COVID sat inside at restaurants. And my middle son would
(16:12):
get in trouble all the time for his mask falling
below his nose. But then he'd see politicians on TV
not wearing masks at all, as.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
They had no conversations.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
They realized that a adults can lie to them, but
be that adults don't know everything. And it's a realization
that a lot of people come to. My kids just
will get that realization a little bit earlier than others.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, and I think, you know, you see that that
trend of people sticking with their twenty something politics in
the millennial cohort, which I'm in, although I'm like the
grandma of that court cohort, arguably a little gen X,
but they were the Obama generation right, and gen X
and gen Z on either side of them are more
conservative than the millennials are. The millennials were like, oh,
(16:57):
I'm inspired by Obama. Yes, and it's right. And then
the concern was that every generation after that, and our
friend Christen Soultus Anderson has written about this at length,
that we wouldn't be able to move any future generations
to the right because they're getting married later. Yeah, they're
having kids later, the things that generally make you more conservative.
But it turned out the government and the left just
(17:18):
decided to make conservatives.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
They're like, here's what we have for you. Where's our program. Also,
the effect of Donald Trump and this whole this election
and the fact that he went on all these cool podcasts,
the cool factor really can't be overlooked. It became uncool
to be a Democrat for really the first time in
(17:43):
my life, and I'm relax some firmly. Gen X and
gen X also went major for Trump and this election,
and it was the first time that it was not
just acceptable but like preferable, Like people made fun of
Kamala voters they did. That became a thing that happened
and comedians would you know, mock them and and all
(18:08):
of that, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I think I think that's I think that's part of
the disorientation and unmoored feeling of democratic leadership right now,
is that they have never had to argue in my
lifetime from the position of being the uncool party. Perhaps
maybe Ronald Reagan's second term, like that reelection, right, so
(18:32):
maybe in that area, although I think that was still
a time when just the mostly silent majority was like,
we're a giant majority, We're going to handle this. But
the cool people were still the lefty people in culture, right, right,
So I think they're just they don't know what to
do with that.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, that's really interesting actually because we never hear about like, oh,
the youths, you know, they came out for Reagan, Like,
I still don't think that they did.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I think I think it was actually back then the
male the male female gap was the gender gap was smaller,
and I think the age gaps were smaller. Certainly for
Reagan's reelection, right, you know, he was very unifying.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
He was forty nine states and all that.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, it's just like a little it's wild, it's wild
at the retelling, like in liberals' brains where they're like, oh, Reagan,
very problematic, very unpopular, very nine states.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, one New York, one, New Jersey, one, Massachusetts, Yeah problematic.
May we have future problematic people?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
We'll be right back on normally.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Shall we talk about Mayor Eric Adams? Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
If we must, I guess you know. It's I'm so
torn on him because there's a lot of corruption around him,
and I've written about this in the past. I wrote
about it in September where I wrote about all the
people around him doing really weird, shady things and a
lot of them getting indicted. I don't know that he
(20:08):
is the corruption kind of whirlwind. I don't know that
he's the one causing it necessarily. But it's not great.
It's really not Having said that, if I lived in
New York and I tweeted this before, but I would
be holding on to him with my fingernails, right, So
anybody that comes after is going to be so much worse.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
So this is this is a story in several parts, right,
because Eric Adams fairly unpopular in New York City. But
he did make a political turn, and I think in
some policies towards saying like, hey, the things I've gotten
a little out of hand here with the illegal immigration
and some of the crime, perhaps we could do something
(20:52):
about that for the people.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, you're not exaggerating. That's literally how he did it
in the most delicate, minor way possible. He wasn't like
we should stop a legal immigration. He was like, can
we get more funding for this, or you know, this
seems like a problem.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Perhaps, like let's just acknowledge that we do have many
people coming into the city that.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Were having well he wanted. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So shortly after that turn, and this is correlation, not causation.
I'm just giving you the timeline, he was indicted on
something that surely had been investigated for quite some time.
But it and this is I thought this before any
of this happened with Trump. The indictment was basically like
he's been taking flight upgrades from Turkish airlines, right, which
(21:38):
on the public corruption scale.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and yeah, so just to add to that, he
was taking the upgrades on Turkish airlines. And also, by
the way, like looking into like when he had to
like fly to Texas, he was like, hey, does Turkish
airlines fly there and have his emails asking that not
so smart.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
He's all of it down right like, which is another
thing that I think probably makes him and Trump find
find commonality is they're like, oh, you know, we just
say what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Anyway, I thought the the the alleged crimes in this
were like a little thin.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Let me just add sorry I meant to add. But
the reason that they were giving him the upgrades was
the Turkish embassy was being built in New York and
there was a long waiting list for the FD and
Y it this is.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Such a New York store certification.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, they needed the FD and WY to sign off
on it. They failed their first inspection and they wanted
to be moved to the front of the list for
the second one. Now how common was this in New York?
How common? The Blasio administration that preceded Adams handed the
Adams administration a binder of people and agencies and corporations
and they were like, these people get moved to the
(22:52):
front of the list. God, and so Adams added somebody
to that binder. That's what he did. This is the
this is the an extent of his you know, alleged crimes.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Okay, so it seemed a little thin to me. The
Southern District of New York says, there's more to come.
We were investigating him. We're going to put this in
the you know, in the case as we move forward.
In the meantime, Trump's administration instructs the Southern District of
New York and the lawyers therein to drop these charges,
(23:23):
which on one hand could be a legit like, hey,
we have prosecutorial discretion in the DJ we don't think
this really passes muster for these reasons, and go forth
and tell the judge that this is the reason we're
doing this.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Well, two of the folks involved in this case, one
of whom at least is verified as like a federalist society,
yeah right, yeah, yeah, and like a like a personally
conservative person in the in the legal world, says no, no, no, no, no.
I can't go to a judge and do that. You
didn't give me legal res that were doing this. You
(24:01):
didn't give me a rationale for this, and as such,
I am concerned that your rationale is that Eric Adams
is working with you on immigration and therefore you're gonna
let him off the hook for this, In which case
you should pardon him, not do it this way?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Right, and she ends up resigning.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yes, which is the right thing to do if you
do not want to do something asked of you in
your job.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I agree absolutely. And a lot of conservatives are saying,
why do we need Eric Adams so badly? Like why
sacrifice these people for Eric Adams? And I understand that.
And again, having said all that, if I were a
conservative in New York, I'd be like, these save Eric Adams,
(24:42):
we need him.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Saltines look great to a starving person. Yeah, it's like
exactly right.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Because if Governor Kathy Hokeel removes Mayor Eric Adams, which
may happen, it's public Advocate Jamaine Williams who becomes the mayor.
Let me tell you, New York City, if you're a
wild ride with him.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, and that's that's the second part of this story, right,
is where I go, this looks shady. Why are you
doing this? And by the way, Trump, who's supposed to
be a great negotiator, why are we trading away prosecutorial
credibility for other things you want to do for a
mortally wounded democrat mayor of New York City. And my friend,
my friend Guy Benson has made the point, Well, it
(25:25):
just he really kind of likes a corrupt democrat like there, like.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Likes who he likes. And if you if you're on
the like side, he's going to do things for you,
and if you're not on the like side, he's not.
And you know, and the thing is the only difference
between Trump and other politicians is that he's very open
about this act like super politicians do this. It's just
he's like, I like this guy, I'm going to help him.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I don't like this guy.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I'm not going to help him.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So then so Eric Adams goes on this like publicity
tour with Homan on the morning shows to say, I'm
going to help out. I'm gonna give him Franks Island,
which fine. I think you would have helped out regardless.
I don't think you need to do this. And one
of the allegations is that the reason they didn't get
him pardoned is because they still have leverage over him
when he's in this position. So I'm like, oh, that's bad,
(26:15):
y'all shouldn't do that. This seems like a very bad idea.
And then Kathy Hokele, Governor of New York, comes along
to say I'm gonna unmayor the mayor, and I'm like, okay,
so now you've outdone him. I think you've outdone him.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
So apparently the New York w York State Constitution does
give her some authority in this way. Although it's used right,
it's never been used successfully. I think Fdr Famous respector
of limits Arms. Yeah, he did it. He attempted it
one time. But the state constitution says the mayor. A
(26:51):
mayor may be removed by the governor after giving to
such officer a copy of the charges against him and
an opportunity to be heard in his defense. It is
very unclear what that due process looks like, but as usual,
as long as it's a left of center person, New
York Times is like, yeah, this is fascinating, right, it's
fascinating that she could remove him. How's she going to
(27:13):
do it?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
How is she going to do it? So one of
the hows of how she's going to do it, she
brought in Al Sharpton yesterday to basically be like, Hey,
I know, I'm a white lady going to get rid
of a black man who is the mayor of New
York City. How do you feel about that, And so
if Al Sharpton gave her his blessing, it might be
a go. We don't know yet, but this is where
(27:37):
we are. And again New Yorkers are just in a bad,
bad spot here, and I really hope for that for
their sake, it all works out in their favor. But
Jamaine Williams as the possible next mayor, he, by the way,
is the guy who was for defund the police. But
he lives on a secure army base and he's cool. Yeah,
(27:59):
he's against real ID, but he has to show his
real ID to get on that army base. Really great guy.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean, So this is a dynamic we're going to
see throughout the Trump presidency. As you and I have said,
there will be good, and there will bad and be bad,
and there will be ugly. And I think the Eric
Adams thing is bad. And then the response of his
opponents is always almost always equally.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Bad, if not worse, right, Yeah, I mean, because can
Trump get rid of Kathy Hoko.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Here we go, and then Elon Musk will get rid
of Donald Trump, and then you know it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
All comes and then we really are good to go.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, then we're good we're good.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That was an abnormal ending, but okay, thank you for
it's fine. It's fine. Thanks for joining us on normally.
Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere
you get your podcasts to get in touch with us
at normally the pod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening,
and when things get weird back normally why not
Hey, yeah, as welcome back to normally the show with
normalist takes for when the news gets weird. I am
Mary Catherine Ham.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm Carol markoitz him. Mary Catherine, how's it going.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's all right. It's still freezing here. I know you
don't have to deal with this, but I'm actually going
to escape to Florida next week, so I will see you,
I know, a brief time in person.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We're excited about that. And I hope the weather. You know,
it's like seventy one today. I hope it warms up
for you, because this is clearly unacceptable, unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'll be so cold when I get there, Oh my gosh. Yes,
I'll survive.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I hope. So I really do bring a sweater. In
any case, I'm wearing a sweater for for those watching it.
So you know, we talked about the sixty minutes episode
last show, and yet there was more to say about
that episode that we didn't cover that I think we
need to get into. On this episode, they had on
(00:58):
two people who aim to be USAID employees and the
claim to be that's going to feature into this complaining
about how Elon Musk is shutting down their their work
and doing it really haphazardly. Apparently, according to them, let's
(01:18):
roll the short clip.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
People are really scared.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I think that you know, twelve days ago, people knew
where their next paycheck was coming from. They knew how
they were going to pay for their kids' takecare, their
medical bills, and then all gone.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Overnight, All gone overnight. For Christina Dry and Adam Dubard
fired this month in the chaotic shutdown of foreign aid
distributed by the US Agency for International Development USAID, more
than eight thousand USAID employees were sent home by the administration.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
They're not looking for covenancy.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
They're not looking for if you're good at your job.
They're looking for peer loyalty tests and if you don't
give it you you will be punished.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And they had to leave the building. And these are
folks who had decades and decades of public service serving
USAID across administrations from you know, George Bush to Obama
to the first Trump administration. And they were never able
to walk back in the building again.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
There was no process, No one explained to them why
they were being relieved.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
To my knowledge, they received an email and then if
they didn't leave the building, they were escorted out of
the building.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Interesting because it turns out that these two were not
employees of USAID. They were consultants who were never actually employees.
Therefore they could not be fired for their lack of loyalty.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So Christina Dry in particular, In particular, it turns out
was a consultant and in the capacity largely as a
close confidant and speech writer for Samantha Power. This is
a political position, Okay, There's two different kinds of positions
in the federal government. There are the civil service ones
that are intended to be more neutral and to cross
(03:11):
over several administrations, although in practice they end up being
quite political, just only to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
The left of course. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Then there are political appointees who every time there's a switch,
they change out. That is the custom, that is the
proper way to do things. So Christina Dry was going
to lose that job regardless. And then she's painting herself
as not only a USAID employee or implying that she
is one, but also like a career civil servant, right,
(03:40):
which is not the case. In sixty minutes, isn't telling
you the truth about her? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Also, she was on video the week before as she
was being interviewed also outside of the USAID offices, saying
that she removed a bunch of things from the office
as Doge was coming in, like pride flags or books
they may not like, or other things like that she
said she took out of the building. Hmm. You know,
(04:07):
I can't imagine why.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I empathize with the fact that there are a lot
of people whose lives and finances might be disrupted, yes,
by Doje's actions. Right, what she's relating here is just
what it looks like to get laid off any other place.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
This is what many Americans have experienced in the past.
One day, you know exactly what's happening in your life,
and the next day you don't. Sometimes, and it's not
to say that I'm celebrating that for people, but this
is a normal process that regular people go through. People
in civil service do not have the same experience because
they have extra protections, and the Trump administration is going
(04:47):
to test those protections as we go through this process.
By the way, did you see in the DC District
Court that Judge shoot Can Who's like the best chance
you're going to get a favorable decision for the civil
servants and the people suing Doge decided against the state's
(05:07):
sewing Doge yesterday. They wanted an emergency temporary restraining order,
saying we will suffer irreparable harm, and shut Can was like,
I can't give it to you because you haven't proved
that this is irreparable harm and that it is eminent.
What you've told me is that media is reporting that
(05:29):
they're going to fire a lot of people, and I'm
not allowed to use media reports and speculation as a
way to temporarily enjoin the executive branch, which like, yeah,
like kind of somebody said, imagine how bad their argument
was if shot Can has to say no. She wanted
to say yes, but in this battle no. There's an
(05:51):
interesting line in here where she says the thing about
sort of saying the quiet part out loud, like I
know you're telling me the media's saying this is happened,
but that's not a substitute for showing me that it's happening,
which is a perfect example of how the left and
the media work together to work against the will of
the electorate. They're like, oh, we made a story, and
(06:12):
therefore you should enjoin the executive branch.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Right, Yeah, that's a very interesting point. My friend Joel Engel,
the writer posted on x the sixty thousand people who
got cut loose when the Keystone Excel pipeline extension was
canceled after Biden took office know the feeling, except they
weren't bureaucrats. They were skilled construction workers and engineers. I mean,
people get laid off, and that's what happens a lot
(06:37):
of the time when new administrations take over. And so
also Elon Musk has said that these people are getting
eight months of pay and benefits, so it actually isn't
true that they don't know where their next meal is
coming from.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Well, and to the extent that it's uncertain. One of
the things that's happened is a federal judge has paused
those agreements. Five thousand reportedly have taken the buyout agreement.
But Judge, like I need to see more about this
before we let them do it again. They have protections
that private workers have no idea about, and so we're
(07:12):
going to sort through those. And I'm also open to
the idea that this is haphazard. I think many voters
see this as the only way to make progress in
understanding what's going on, so they're willing to go through that.
I don't want to lose experienced people who are good,
but frankly, a lot of the experienced people in like say, oh,
(07:33):
I don't know public health over the last five years,
have not proved to be knowledgeable or trustworthy or good
at their jobs. And that's a lot of people's experience
of the federal workforce.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That's right. And Dog just posting a lot of the
money that they're canceling on their X account, and it's
stuff like ten million for Mozambique voluntary medical mail circumcision
nine points and for u C. Berkeley to develop a
cohort of Cambodian youth with enterprise driven skills. I mean,
some of it, I'm sure isn't awful, but I just
(08:09):
don't know why we need to be doing biodiversity conversations
in Nepal or social cohesion in Mali or any of
this stuff that sort of just sounds ridiculous. And a
lot of people are realizing that I had a tweet
that I had more se retweeted into my timeline of
minim the d's account. He says, count me as one
(08:31):
of the supporters, much to my surprise. I think a
lot of people recognize that the government needs pruning and
are willing to overlook the occasional errand snip because the
bush is so out of control.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I think that's going to be a lot of people's
take on this, to the point about how they're covering this.
Of course, the media in the District of Columbia area,
certainly everyone who works in media works very closely with
federal employees, right, civil servants in particular, who have been
(09:02):
there for a long time and are arguably deep state
ish and leak all their stuff to the media. Right,
So the media thinks that these are the perfect sympathetic victims.
I think they're misreading, and that doesn't mean that there
aren't victims among them. But I do notice that, for instance,
the Washington Post has like Johnny on the Spot, a
(09:23):
reporter at every town hall for a Virginia politician where
he's getting asked questions about these federal jobs. Because in
Virginia this will make a large difference. The federal workforce
has grown. As it has Virginia has gotten bluer and bluer.
Despite the blip welcome with Youngkin, which may have some
staying power. But Washington Post reporters, they're live tweeting a
(09:45):
local town hall with Representative Vinman so that people can
hear all these sad stories. Not so many national reporters
like in western North Carolina. You know, those victims not
as special as these things.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yepes.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
They didn't really tell a lot of stories from the
Keystone pipeline people being laid off. I didn't really read
a lot of those.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
By the way, I think the AP estimates there are
two point four million federal workers, twenty percent of them
are in the DC area, so it does make a
big economic impact here. Like I said, seventy five k
have accepted the buyout. Reportedly, the VA may have lost
a thousand people, Energy three hundred and fifty HHS and
CDC a couple thousand, but as we note the total
(10:33):
numbers two point four million. Yeah, and a lot of
these jobs. Although they are certainly very important to the
agencies themselves, because the agencies themselves are invested in perpetuating themselves,
it remains to me seeing how important they are to voters, right.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
That is what remains to be seen. We'll see how
much voters care about this. And that's the thing. A
lot of people I've seen kind of people in the
life tweet like alwos you know the voters will feel
this soon, but like will they will they feel this?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I think it's possible you have a phenomenon where voters
feel it in Virginia and Maryland. Although Maryland ain't getting
any bluer like that, one's not going to change. Virginia
could be a place where you see backlash. But again,
it just once again sort of emphasizes that the economic
effects of this are so centralized at the capitol hunger
(11:30):
game style that maybe the regular folks will not be
affected by it.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, it remains to be seen.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
But one more thing, and I'm just going to repeat this.
I know I keep repeating it. This idea that they
have no legal authority is false, right DOJE is the
US Digital Service, which was authorized by Obama. The people
who lead the US Digital Service have been appointed by
the president. I do not believe they were sentate confirmed either.
(12:00):
This idea that a special government employee cannot do anything
is wild, and even shut can is like, actually they
can look at records inside these agencies, right, just as
they've been doing since the Obama administration. Now, letting people
go is the question. And I do think that one
might be a bigger legal question.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And I think you want to talk about voters hearing
that you can't fire government employees. I feel like that's
going to be something that they don't realize is going
to affect.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
People every Yeah, yeah, that's the thing they say. And
again I'm sort of sympathetic to the argument, like, oh,
go at this with a scalpel. Okay, we'd love to,
but you've never let us do it with a scalpel either.
The admonition is always be careful with the bureaucracy. Be
careful with the bureaucracy. Is the bureaucracy ever careful with me?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Never?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Or my money? I would love for them to be.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, they want to know how you spent every penny
last year. They don't want to tell you how they
spent their money new We're going to take a short
break and come right back with normally. So, speaking of
new voters and voting habits shifting, the Atlantic had a
(13:13):
piece about how it could be that the COVID lockdowns
made the young people more right leaning.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, The Atlantic reports you know, for decades, America's young
voters have been deeply and famously progressive. In two thousand
and eight, a youthquake sent Barack Obama to the White House.
In twenty sixteen, voters eighteen to twenty nine broke for
Hillary Clinton by eighteen points. In twenty twenty, they voted
for Joe Biden by twenty four points. In twenty twenty four,
Donald Trump closed most of the gap, losing voters under
(13:43):
thirty by a fifty one to forty seven margin. That
is a five alarm fire startling for Democrats.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I mean, and it's interesting, is it was it
Kamala Harris or is this a permanent shift? Which is
really the question. You know, there was an interesting part
of that Atlantic piece. I really like this that people,
once they change, they really don't change back. They write.
Most famously, so called depression babies who grew up in
(14:13):
the nineteen thirties saved more as adults. And there are
some evidence that corporate managers born in the thirties were
unusually disciplined to take on loans. Perhaps the eighteen to
twenty five Cohort, whose youths were thrown into a people
by COVID will adopt a set of socio political assumptions
that form a new sort of ideology that doesn't quite
(14:33):
have a name yet. Maybe or maybe they're just never
going to trust the government, which is I don't know.
I'm in for that. I'm in for them being skeptical
of everything the government ever tells them.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, that's the thing is that even Derek Thompson, who
I think is better at reporting on this stuff than many.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
He's the one who wrote the Atlantic piece.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
He wrote the Atlantic piece, I do think there's an
inability to recognize just how much government experts betrayed public trust. Yeah,
Like they're just like, oh, the pandemic made them distrustful
because of gestures, you know, generation right, It's like, well,
it was real things that were happening that were making
(15:15):
people say, I think you're full of it. Yeah, and
young people were really damaged by having their milestones taken
from them, and not just that this is what the
left does. It's one step further, take all your stuff
from you and then tell you you're the jerk for complaining
about it.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, you didn't do it good enough, you didn't miss
your prom good enough for them.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You didn't miss your graduation with correct stoicism, because you know,
the left is so good at stoicism, and they got
upset and they should have.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. Look, my kids aren't old enough to vote yet,
but they definitely the takeaway for them of the pandemic
was adults don't know stuff like that was what they
left the last few years thinking, like you know, they
made them eat on the ground at their public schools
in Brooklyn while old people who are at risk of
COVID sat inside at restaurants. And my middle son would
(16:12):
get in trouble all the time for his mask falling
below his nose. But then he'd see politicians on TV
not wearing masks at all, as.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
They had no conversations.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
They realized that a adults can lie to them, but
be that adults don't know everything. And it's a realization
that a lot of people come to. My kids just
will get that realization a little bit earlier than others.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, and I think, you know, you see that that
trend of people sticking with their twenty something politics in
the millennial cohort, which I'm in, although I'm like the
grandma of that court cohort, arguably a little gen X,
but they were the Obama generation right, and gen X
and gen Z on either side of them are more
conservative than the millennials are. The millennials were like, oh,
(16:57):
I'm inspired by Obama. Yes, and it's right. And then
the concern was that every generation after that, and our
friend Christen Soultus Anderson has written about this at length,
that we wouldn't be able to move any future generations
to the right because they're getting married later. Yeah, they're
having kids later, the things that generally make you more conservative.
But it turned out the government and the left just
(17:18):
decided to make conservatives.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
They're like, here's what we have for you. Where's our program. Also,
the effect of Donald Trump and this whole this election
and the fact that he went on all these cool podcasts,
the cool factor really can't be overlooked. It became uncool
to be a Democrat for really the first time in
(17:43):
my life, and I'm relax some firmly. Gen X and
gen X also went major for Trump and this election,
and it was the first time that it was not
just acceptable but like preferable, Like people made fun of
Kamala voters they did. That became a thing that happened
and comedians would you know, mock them and and all
(18:08):
of that, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I think I think that's I think that's part of
the disorientation and unmoored feeling of democratic leadership right now,
is that they have never had to argue in my
lifetime from the position of being the uncool party. Perhaps
maybe Ronald Reagan's second term, like that reelection, right, so
(18:32):
maybe in that area, although I think that was still
a time when just the mostly silent majority was like,
we're a giant majority, We're going to handle this. But
the cool people were still the lefty people in culture, right, right,
So I think they're just they don't know what to
do with that.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, that's really interesting actually because we never hear about like, oh,
the youths, you know, they came out for Reagan, Like,
I still don't think that they did.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I think I think it was actually back then the
male the male female gap was the gender gap was smaller,
and I think the age gaps were smaller. Certainly for
Reagan's reelection, right, you know, he was very unifying.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
He was forty nine states and all that.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yeah, it's just like a little it's wild, it's wild
at the retelling, like in liberals' brains where they're like, oh, Reagan,
very problematic, very unpopular, very nine states.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, one New York, one, New Jersey, one, Massachusetts, Yeah problematic.
May we have future problematic people?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
We'll be right back on normally.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Shall we talk about Mayor Eric Adams? Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
If we must, I guess you know. It's I'm so
torn on him because there's a lot of corruption around him,
and I've written about this in the past. I wrote
about it in September where I wrote about all the
people around him doing really weird, shady things and a
lot of them getting indicted. I don't know that he
(20:08):
is the corruption kind of whirlwind. I don't know that
he's the one causing it necessarily. But it's not great.
It's really not Having said that, if I lived in
New York and I tweeted this before, but I would
be holding on to him with my fingernails, right, So
anybody that comes after is going to be so much worse.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
So this is this is a story in several parts, right,
because Eric Adams fairly unpopular in New York City. But
he did make a political turn, and I think in
some policies towards saying like, hey, the things I've gotten
a little out of hand here with the illegal immigration
and some of the crime, perhaps we could do something
(20:52):
about that for the people.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, you're not exaggerating. That's literally how he did it
in the most delicate, minor way possible. He wasn't like
we should stop a legal immigration. He was like, can
we get more funding for this, or you know, this
seems like a problem.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Perhaps, like let's just acknowledge that we do have many
people coming into the city that.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Were having well he wanted. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So shortly after that turn, and this is correlation, not causation.
I'm just giving you the timeline, he was indicted on
something that surely had been investigated for quite some time.
But it and this is I thought this before any
of this happened with Trump. The indictment was basically like
he's been taking flight upgrades from Turkish airlines, right, which
(21:38):
on the public corruption scale.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and yeah, so just to add to that, he
was taking the upgrades on Turkish airlines. And also, by
the way, like looking into like when he had to
like fly to Texas, he was like, hey, does Turkish
airlines fly there and have his emails asking that not
so smart.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
He's all of it down right like, which is another
thing that I think probably makes him and Trump find
find commonality is they're like, oh, you know, we just
say what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Anyway, I thought the the the alleged crimes in this
were like a little thin.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Let me just add sorry I meant to add. But
the reason that they were giving him the upgrades was
the Turkish embassy was being built in New York and
there was a long waiting list for the FD and
Y it this is.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Such a New York store certification.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, they needed the FD and WY to sign off
on it. They failed their first inspection and they wanted
to be moved to the front of the list for
the second one. Now how common was this in New York?
How common? The Blasio administration that preceded Adams handed the
Adams administration a binder of people and agencies and corporations
and they were like, these people get moved to the
(22:52):
front of the list. God, and so Adams added somebody
to that binder. That's what he did. This is the
this is the an extent of his you know, alleged crimes.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Okay, so it seemed a little thin to me. The
Southern District of New York says, there's more to come.
We were investigating him. We're going to put this in
the you know, in the case as we move forward.
In the meantime, Trump's administration instructs the Southern District of
New York and the lawyers therein to drop these charges,
(23:23):
which on one hand could be a legit like, hey,
we have prosecutorial discretion in the DJ we don't think
this really passes muster for these reasons, and go forth
and tell the judge that this is the reason we're
doing this.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Well, two of the folks involved in this case, one
of whom at least is verified as like a federalist society,
yeah right, yeah, yeah, and like a like a personally
conservative person in the in the legal world, says no, no, no, no, no.
I can't go to a judge and do that. You
didn't give me legal res that were doing this. You
(24:01):
didn't give me a rationale for this, and as such,
I am concerned that your rationale is that Eric Adams
is working with you on immigration and therefore you're gonna
let him off the hook for this, In which case
you should pardon him, not do it this way?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Right, and she ends up resigning.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yes, which is the right thing to do if you
do not want to do something asked of you in
your job.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I agree absolutely. And a lot of conservatives are saying,
why do we need Eric Adams so badly? Like why
sacrifice these people for Eric Adams? And I understand that.
And again, having said all that, if I were a
conservative in New York, I'd be like, these save Eric Adams,
(24:42):
we need him.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Saltines look great to a starving person. Yeah, it's like
exactly right.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Because if Governor Kathy Hokeel removes Mayor Eric Adams, which
may happen, it's public Advocate Jamaine Williams who becomes the mayor.
Let me tell you, New York City, if you're a
wild ride with him.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, and that's that's the second part of this story, right,
is where I go, this looks shady. Why are you
doing this? And by the way, Trump, who's supposed to
be a great negotiator, why are we trading away prosecutorial
credibility for other things you want to do for a
mortally wounded democrat mayor of New York City. And my friend,
my friend Guy Benson has made the point, Well, it
(25:25):
just he really kind of likes a corrupt democrat like there, like.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Likes who he likes. And if you if you're on
the like side, he's going to do things for you,
and if you're not on the like side, he's not.
And you know, and the thing is the only difference
between Trump and other politicians is that he's very open
about this act like super politicians do this. It's just
he's like, I like this guy, I'm going to help him.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I don't like this guy.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I'm not going to help him.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So then so Eric Adams goes on this like publicity
tour with Homan on the morning shows to say, I'm
going to help out. I'm gonna give him Franks Island,
which fine. I think you would have helped out regardless.
I don't think you need to do this. And one
of the allegations is that the reason they didn't get
him pardoned is because they still have leverage over him
when he's in this position. So I'm like, oh, that's bad,
(26:15):
y'all shouldn't do that. This seems like a very bad idea.
And then Kathy Hokele, Governor of New York, comes along
to say I'm gonna unmayor the mayor, and I'm like, okay,
so now you've outdone him. I think you've outdone him.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
So apparently the New York w York State Constitution does
give her some authority in this way. Although it's used right,
it's never been used successfully. I think Fdr Famous respector
of limits Arms. Yeah, he did it. He attempted it
one time. But the state constitution says the mayor. A
(26:51):
mayor may be removed by the governor after giving to
such officer a copy of the charges against him and
an opportunity to be heard in his defense. It is
very unclear what that due process looks like, but as usual,
as long as it's a left of center person, New
York Times is like, yeah, this is fascinating, right, it's
fascinating that she could remove him. How's she going to
(27:13):
do it?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
How is she going to do it? So one of
the hows of how she's going to do it, she
brought in Al Sharpton yesterday to basically be like, Hey,
I know, I'm a white lady going to get rid
of a black man who is the mayor of New
York City. How do you feel about that, And so
if Al Sharpton gave her his blessing, it might be
a go. We don't know yet, but this is where
(27:37):
we are. And again New Yorkers are just in a bad,
bad spot here, and I really hope for that for
their sake, it all works out in their favor. But
Jamaine Williams as the possible next mayor, he, by the way,
is the guy who was for defund the police. But
he lives on a secure army base and he's cool. Yeah,
(27:59):
he's against real ID, but he has to show his
real ID to get on that army base. Really great guy.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean, So this is a dynamic we're going to
see throughout the Trump presidency. As you and I have said,
there will be good, and there will bad and be bad,
and there will be ugly. And I think the Eric
Adams thing is bad. And then the response of his
opponents is always almost always equally.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Bad, if not worse, right, Yeah, I mean, because can
Trump get rid of Kathy Hoko.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Here we go, and then Elon Musk will get rid
of Donald Trump, and then you know it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
All comes and then we really are good to go.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, then we're good we're good.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That was an abnormal ending, but okay, thank you for
it's fine. It's fine. Thanks for joining us on normally.
Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere
you get your podcasts to get in touch with us
at normally the pod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening,
and when things get weird back normally why not
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