October 19, 2021 • 46 mins
Brian brings John Krasinski aka Jim Halpert back onto the podcast for the second half of their conversation, where they laugh, they cry, and they reveal a long-lost secret. Okay, two out of three of those are true. John talks about how hard he had to fight to stop Jim from cheating on Pam, the time a fan confused him for an old buddy from school, and why he had to lie to his TV dad.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh, I'm John Krasinski and I played Jim Helbert on
The Office. Hello everyone, thanks for stopping by today. You
know what today feels like, Well, it feels like the
perfect day for a new episode of the Office Deep Dive.
(00:27):
Do you see what I did? I am your host
Brian Baumgartner, and I am beyond excited, giddy in fact,
to bring back my main man, John Krasinski for the
second half of our conversation today, and boy, are you
in for a treat because this time we go deep. Okay,
we always go deep, but seriously, I made him blush.
(00:49):
I made him cry. Well, he didn't quite cry, but
he did go into details of the way he cries,
which is all in like everything else he does. I
even got to well or I was forced to hear
his sexy voice in my brain, and if I'm honest,
I would be okay never hearing that again. But maybe
(01:13):
you'll feel differently now. If you've been listening to this
podcast since the very beginning, you've heard me talk about
how the Office is a family a few times. Well,
John really gets into why that's the case and why
the Office is not just a family. For the cast
and crew who were there, but for you too, Yes, you,
(01:35):
the person listening to this right now. So few shows
have been able to cross that threshold where it really
feels like you know the characters that you're watching on
screen and not to tute our own horns, but I
really think with this show we achieved that. And that's why,
no matter how many movies he directs, or how successful
(01:59):
he becomes, how many billboards he is on, John Krasinski
will always be Jim Halpert, Everyone's favorite goofy haired prankster.
So please join me in welcoming back, my old friend
and yours, John Krasinski. Bubble and Squeak, I love Bubble
(02:27):
and Squigan. Bubble and Squeaker cook at every month lift
over from the Night Before. The Office was constructed in
(02:48):
the opposite way than most comedies, or certainly television comedies,
where typically the leads are the young lovers and then
you've got a crazy uncle or the crazy boss that
that is back in the corner coming No um. This
(03:10):
show was the reverse which which is which? Which was
putting and specifically the moments and examining like why Jim
and Pam, like why that relationship became so important to people?
And so charged was people weren't watching a half hour
of it. They were just stealing a moment from the corner,
(03:31):
which makes you like, I want to lean forward. And
the other thing was there's an idea that when you generalize,
it becomes more universal, right, like this is generally who
this guy is from this midwestern town. But the amount
of specificity and reality both in those moments between Jim
(03:55):
and Dwight and Jim and Pam. The opposite is true
that the more ccific you get, that the character has
become infinitely more real and therefore universal and relatable. To me,
that idea is is interesting. No, I think it's I
think it's really true, and I think that's sort of
the magic trick of the show is. And I don't
(04:18):
I don't know the specifics of why it's so huge now.
I mean, it's mind blowing to me. A four year
old came up to me at the airport and was like,
it's my favorite show and I was like, do you
get any of it? And they're like, yeah, like it
totally universal, like you said. But I also think that
the stakes were set up so wonderfully because that's real life, right.
(04:38):
I think when you're in love with someone, especially someone
at work. You very much look forward to those interactions
at work, but that means that when you go home,
in your home life with your friends or whatever else
you're doing, you will not see that person. So you
are sort of, I don't know, tantalized by the idea
that like, when I get that moment, I'll savor it.
And I think that's real life, and that's what did
(05:00):
in the show. I particularly, I'm thinking right now about
the relationship with Roy, you know what I mean. It's
like it's like lighting a fuse that might blow six
weeks from now, but it was a very specific fuse, right,
So the first time you saw me and David together,
people were like, oh, okay, so you just told me
(05:20):
that this is a potentially explosive thing, and then we
didn't go into it. You'd reference him a couple of times,
and it was very specific references, and she said that
he brought me to the game and left me at
the arena, like things like that, where you're just slowly
leading the breadcrumbs back to the trigger, and then by
the time he comes in and pushes me, you're so
(05:43):
invested in that. Not in a television way I think
in like a like these people are my friends, Oh right,
my friend as much as I love them together, is
trying to go after a girl who's taken. That's real
life steaks rather than TV steaks. And I think that's
what made it like the first time that we accidentally
(06:04):
kissed at Dundees and like that's real life, whereas a
regular television show would have a big, huge kiss sing
like they finally got together and it was I remember
reading that script and being like, man, that is so
smart that have the audience be like did they just kiss?
And it's and not give them what they thought they want.
It was so because that's how I felt. I felt like,
(06:24):
oh my god, I thought we're gonna do some huge
kissing and instead she just did it at Dundees and
you're like, oh my god. And of course I would
have stewed on that for months and been like was
that did that count? Was she just drunk? Rather than
if it was a big kiss scene where I took
her out back and like, you know, made some huge overture,
(06:46):
you'd be like, oh good, I'm being entertained by this moment.
But I don't feel anything. I'm not connected I don't
know if any of that made sense. No, that's so smart,
I think. I um, I think people see themselves in
the show, and it's a combination I would imagine of
every character, you know. I don't think you look at
one character and you go like, oh, I'm Michael. I
(07:07):
hope you're not Michael. But it's more like, oh, man,
I have a co worker that loves cats, and I
have a coworker that drives me insane. I don't know.
Maybe that's it, And certainly people have bosses that are crazy, right, Yeah,
it's what you were talking about, I think is so true.
I had a conversation with Greg where traditional sitcoms there's
(07:32):
a rhythm, there's a rhythm to the joke. It's it's
totally on the beat. And I think that in the
relationship between Jim and Pam, everything happened off of the beat,
not at the time you expected, right from moments way early,
like right like in terms of like the progression. But
(07:54):
then also what Greg talked about a little bit was
once it got to a certain point that he was like, well,
we need to get them together, Like I'm not going
to create artificial impediments that make everybody go like, come
on right, because I think he had brought this audience
in to a very seemingly realistic relationship. So if you
(08:16):
started doing weird things that felt fake, then people wouldn't
relate to it anymore. I'm saying, like, I love I
can admit on this podcast. I was never like a
casting No. I wasn't really great with dating, and I
feel and I think that's what's so great about the
show is how do you go about that? Like how
(08:36):
do you start a relationship with someone who's already with someone?
It's a great place to start, and then just you know, slowly,
you know. I remember also how bold it was that
when you thought you would do something, you know, like
proposed to her, he would write an entire episode where
you're like, oh man, and at the end, this is
gonna be the proposal because again in TV, you know
(08:59):
that like the big scenes are coming, and he wouldn't
do it. And then when I did propose, I love
that talking head where I was like, I've been planning
on this forever, like I love that, you know. Um,
I've said to people that nothing shut down production like
an important gem and pan moment, like when there were
(09:22):
moments between the two down. No, I mean like shut
it down right right, like like like you're blushing right now.
But it's I mean like Casino night and not and
not just one, two different moments in Casino Night because
the relationship was so important to the two of you
and getting it right totally. I remember those two moments
(09:44):
very well. I remember the parking lot Yeah, it's funny
now that you say that, Yeah, which must have been
frustrating for you, Like, oh, you'd be like, oh, please
just get me out of here before they filmed this,
or it's going to be seven hours. Well we were
in there that seven hours. But again I had never
experienced anything else, so that was weird for me. Was
(10:07):
I remember like there was an energy around those moments.
I remember. I remember so many different things, but I
remember that parking lot scene. I remember not knowing where
Matt was and Ken wouldn't tell me, and he was like,
don't worry about it, just do the scene or whatever,
you know, and I thought that was cool. And then
certainly I remember the like the big moment, the big
(10:27):
kiss that was shut down, like that was nobody was
on set, nobody was around the craft service table, but
I didn't know that was happening. So I walked on,
you know, ready to joke with folks, and they were
like not wanting to make eye contact with me, and
I was like, what happened? I feel like I said
something to you, like I was going on. I know.
I kind of remember that too. And then it made
me more nervous because then they were like, all right, now,
(10:49):
maybe you should go out the door and whenever you're ready,
come in. And I was like, what's happening. There is
no I'm gonna call action, and they're like, no, man,
well do you remember that night? I remember, I remember
because you were so frustrated you were still there. No,
I just I remember it being so big. I think
the thing that I am most proud of artistically he
(11:12):
is not blowing your top in that moment in the
shot in the show was every single shot where the
camera was positioned, just the discussion about are the cameras
in the room, Are the characters aware the cameras in
the room, How does that change behavior based on the
fact that the cameras are in the room or if
(11:34):
they think that they're alone. And I think that at
that moment, specifically, at the end of Casino Night. You
see the slats in the blinds and them shooting and
catching you guys that they're such an intimacy, you know.
It's like Randall and Matt were to my favorite people
on Earth and I couldn't see them, and like, I
don't even think I got to see the set before
(11:55):
I went up, you know what I mean? Like it
was also weird, and I'm sure for a better actor
you'd think like, oh, that's what you need, right, And
so I was like I am a terrible actor because
I don't know, I'm nervous, and maybe that was the intention,
but I was like, I don't even know. Remember, Randall
wasn't anywhere, and usually I was like what are we doing?
Like what what? What? What? How? Where do you want
me to be? Whenever? And it was really weird. I
(12:18):
was so freaked out. And I remember I was on
set for a while before Jenna got onto because Jenna
was taking her moment, which is fine, but again I
was so not knowing of that world that I didn't
know that I could take thirty minutes in my trailer
to prepare. Mentally, I was like, mentally, what's happened? And
then I got so much more scared, and I was like,
you know, then you start to think, like, oh god,
(12:39):
I didn't do my homework and she's doing her homework. Right.
Were you on board with the trajectory of Jim and
Pam's relationship, like just in terms of the timing, did
you have concerns about it happening to soon? No, it
sounds like a hallmark version of Greg, but I truly
and Greg I trusted. I could tell that he had
(13:01):
to beat on it. He was always so nice to
involve Jenna, and I remember that he would tell you
kind of when things were going to happen, and he
would remind you in scenes, you know, don't worry. This
isn't the moment that's going to lead to this, that
will happen later, like he he had it all tracked out. Also,
we were what in season five or six by the
time that I was in that motel with that other
(13:21):
girl and stuff like that, And that's the only time
I remember putting whatever, put my foot down, not really,
but I remember I got that was the only time
I was very much against because he was saying, you're
going to actually make out with her in this scene,
and that was the episode I directed. Yes, that's right,
that's the bed Bucks And I don't remember. It might
have been an earlier version about you guys making out,
(13:43):
but I remember that was the only time we had
like a it was like a bad, negative moment. But
I remember being in a room and it was like
I remember finding myself kind of saying things that I
never thought i'd say before, like I'm not going to
shoot it. I remember Paul Lieberstein was in the room.
He was like, no, you you will do it in
an aggressive way, but it was like he saw the
(14:05):
benefit of doing it. And I remember saying to Greg,
there's a threshold with which you can push our audience.
They are so dedicated, we have shown such great respect
to them. There's a level of messing with them that
you've done, like in a great way. I mean like
you've messed with them by the whole kiss happening too early.
And I think there's a moment where if you push
(14:26):
them too far, they'll never come back. And I think
that if you show Jim to be cheating, they'll never
come back. Yeah, And I what did you think? That's right?
You directed? What what was your field? Well? My recollection, Well,
It was never that you were going to make out,
but it was about there was what was the line?
(14:48):
How far can we go? I was supposed to kiss
her in that bathroom. I remember that's what they were pitching,
and I was like, I don't know that that's going
to go well for us. But even just you being
in a room him with her, you know, how would
you behave even if you didn't think the cameras were there,
because the cameras were shooting from outside and they weren't
(15:08):
in the room except when Dwight came in. Um. Anyway,
the whole point is the passion for which you fought
and Jenna fought and Greg like that. Everybody was collaboratively.
Oh that's why it wasn't a negative fight. It was
a big conversation because again it was so important to everybody. Yeah,
(15:30):
but also I had trusted Greg up to that point,
and it was really hard for me to say, I
think we're actually making the wrong decision, right, so Steve, Well,
(15:58):
I'm gonna start with us. When you found out that
Steve was leaving, Oh yeah, what did you think was
the greater loss, Michael or Steve? Jesus, It's like a
existential crack right there in the Yeah, my brain literally
(16:19):
just melted. Oh my god. I mean, it's weird, right.
I think there might be one of those esoteric, kind
of actory bogus things that happened, which is we kind
of started blending ourselves and our characters because we spent
so much time together, and Steve and I had a
(16:41):
really wonderful relationship We started because we were both from
Boston and we really had a great friendship, and even
though we didn't hang out all that much, I felt
very deeply connected to him, and he was always so nice.
So I think that I think I have to be
honest and say it was losing Steve because as much
as he was so good on the show, his presence
(17:03):
on the set was fantastic and mean he was. He
was as professional as it gets. He was your clean
up hitter, just crushed everything that he was thrown. And
so I think I'm saying I think what I'm getting
at is, in that moment, it felt like the end
of an era. It felt like the the end of
something more than even losing Steve or losing Michael. It
(17:23):
felt like the end of our show in a way,
or that evolution of our show. It's like when you
graduate college, your life isn't over, but that version of
your life will never come back. You'll never have your
college years again or your high school years again. Um,
(17:44):
that's what it felt like. I felt like we were
graduating college that day. I'm trying to figure it out
in real time. Why I cried so hard when we
did that scene. I also remember him crying, and I
was not expecting that. I thought that he was so
good at comedy that he was able to be like,
it's just a scene, then will cry after or not
(18:05):
or whatever. And the energy in that room was so
thick and palpable that when they called action or go ahead,
I remember Steve tiered up right away, and that was
so unlike him. Not that he was an emotionless but
it was like it was so unlike him to let
real life bleed into the moment, right. I think, I think,
I actually remember. The actual number was seventeen takes of
(18:26):
not even speaking, just just dribbling crying. For me, it's
I mean, you talked about it, you were waiting tables.
I was doing theater for you know, some class, sometimes
seventeen people you know or whatever, Like everybody we all
grew up together, and there was like Greg as like
(18:50):
our on set dad, but like Steve as like the
greatest brother you could have. Yeah. Yeah, it was like
the steady brother, you know, whether it's like John Steinbecker,
Arthur Miller, like there was always like a steady brother
and we were all the crazy people and he was
always really steady. Yeah no, But I mean I was
(19:11):
twenty three years old when we started shooting season one,
and I look back and I'm like, I basically graduated college,
had two and a half years. Like I was shot
out of a literal canon, because my my life wasn't
real life. I was living in a fantasy camp because
(19:33):
every day I was going to work on something I
loved and something that was edgy and fun, and I
would have watched in anyway. But like you said, we
were also intermingling in a way that was such perfection.
I've never been on a job since where every single
human being, from crew member to you know, actor was
so in tune and such a family. I always felt
(19:54):
bad for the guests actors. Did you feel that? And
you had to pop in for one episode? Oh? And
I thought that must be awful, because here I am
being like, right, who you picking up in the second
round of fantasy and like They're like, no, this is
a big show, and I'm like, it's not. It's fine.
I mean of your m and m's are like just
goofing off and then like throwing things at each other
(20:15):
in the middle of scenes, and people were probably like, dude,
this is my big break. We were trying to throw
stuff at each other when the camera, when the camera
wasn't on us. We were throwing a football in the
middle and I remember there were a couple of people
who were like, did not like the football throw? Yeah,
stop you jackasses, And I was like, what's the big deal?
And yeah, like Amy Adams, I thought did the best
(20:37):
job of it. She came in and somehow felt like
she was always on the show. Remember she wasn't the
original purse girl did kill someone else. And then all
of a sudden Amy showed up and I was like, oh,
there's been a recast and she was not nervous, not scared,
came in and was like yeah, I'm I'm not taking
this too seriously either. I'm just super good at my
(20:59):
job and then crushed. It was one of the best
storylines we've ever had. I love that storyline because I
loved how she ended her character where she was understanding
of how much I loved Pam and you're like that
was also Rob Wriggle, Right, that was Riggles Booze, Cris
(21:19):
Riggle god, one of the funniest human beings I've ever
met in my life. Do you remember anything about that?
Speaking of boost Cruise, the twenty seven seconds of silence,
that was a big deal for the fans. I remember
was there a discussion when we were shooting. I remember
I felt it was a big deal when someone gave
me the number of twenty seven seconds, because if someone
(21:40):
counted it surely wasn't us, and so it had aired
and someone timed it, which meant that it was a
big enough deal to time it rather than remember how
silent they were. I remember that. I also remember, do
you remember we had shot to like the wee hours
and the sun was cracking and we drove back on
a boat and it it conked out. It conked out, Yeah,
And we were in pitch black water, like terrifying, scary,
(22:04):
shark infested, shark infested water, and we were just kind
of crapped out on a tiny boat and we were
all exhausted and the other boat got there just in time.
They had left and we were like, this is gonna
be a while. Remember that was terrifying. Yeah, I remember
Phillis was on our boat. It was you Phillis. It
(22:24):
wasn't coopas he got off on the good one. Was
it Angela? I think Angela was there anyway? Was that
season two? Well? And that was the episode. As we're filming,
you know, seven pm to seven am. I wake up
from like sleeping all during the day and have like
(22:47):
seventy four messages from my agents saying the office wants
to make you a serious regular. Where are you? I
remember that. I remember being in the parking lot before
we went to the boat, and you were very nice
to say, I want to talk to you about this
and get your take on it. And we talked a
lot about it. You took none of my advice, No,
none of them. Um, did you think the show could
(23:10):
go forward? When Steve laughed, I knew the show could
go forward. I didn't know what the plan was. I
couldn't see through the trees. Um. But again that's where
I really trusted Greg. I remember when they came to
us for season nine. I had a very honest conversation
with Greg. He called me about season nine and said,
(23:37):
what do you think? And I said, you have to
end the show. I was like, I don't want to
negotiate because we none of us had contracts. Since I
was like, this isn't about a negotiation. You have to
end the show before they end it for us, because
I was like, it's coming to an end regardless. You
don't want to be the one that like. And he
by the way, it wasn't. I wasn't telling him anything.
You didn't know. I just felt with the landscape of
(23:57):
what other shows were on and whatever that like. And
again keep in mind we were not even as popular
then as we are now. It's like I remember that
feeling of like we don't want to be taken out
back right, I think I'll go up behind the shed.
I don't want too for sure. That is a lesson
(24:18):
you everyone should abide by. Um what did you think
did you want to did you think we should have
kept going? I remember being conflicted, but ultimately I felt
like that was the right decision, and I mean conflicted
just that you did well, that it that it could
have well I think what was inevitable was and I
(24:39):
just call it the e er syndrome, Like, I think
the writing was there that people were going to begin
to leave, and so it's like, oh, okay, are we
going to e er this? And are we going twenty?
To me, there was sort of like are we going
to stop at nine or we going twenty? It totally
could have gone twenty because everybody would have slowly cycled
(24:59):
out and we just kept the reality of it. My
question is would people have wanting to see that, not
not that people are leaving, but that they would be
like I am now aware of the fact is the
TV show and we ended it before you Technically you
gave them that respect of saying, you guys have been
so good to us. We don't want to be taken
out back behind the shine the wood shed. No. I think.
(25:20):
So here's what I know that I believe that that story,
like the idea that this documentary is actually going to
air and these characters are going to watch it, that
had to happen right then or that never happens. I
think because you can't do that after twenty years, when
(25:41):
you're on your and your third cast. I think that's
that's really true. Um, finale comes. I mean you mentioned
that you you felt like we needed to end, and
you were clear with Greg season nine. Once the finale
finally comes, are you prepared for it? No? No, But
(26:02):
I I don't know. I might have an issue that
I need to look into, which is like I I
think I tried to disengage from things and then they
kind of catch up to me later. So while we
were shooting, I was very disengaged to the fact that
that also meant that it was ending, that we had
called our shot, which I loved in theory, but I
didn't really let my brain be like, oh my god,
(26:24):
only two weeks left, only two episodes left, only two
scenes left, only you know whatever. And I think a
big thing that helped was when we went to Scranton.
I think that getting together and having some version of
a life experience that felt like we were memorializing it
helped because I don't know if I would have been
(26:45):
good having the finale just come out. What do you do?
Do you do? I like call you and be like, so,
what what do you think about last night's episode? You
know what? I mean? Like there, I didn't know what
to do, so I think that really helped. When we
went to Scranton, that felt really Um, that was a
really special experience for me. Right, I want to show
(27:07):
you something? Is it me behind the bar? I don't
why Why would you ruin something when I'm god, I'm
trying to like, I know you took a picture of
me behind the bar because I got paranoid about it. Um,
my favorite picture of me and you and Jenna behind
the bar. Behind the bar in Scratton. That was so
(27:29):
much fun and nothing that I would have thought I
would be doing. But I remember you had told me
you had done this before, and then you told me
how awesome it wasn't how amazing all the people were
Unlike anything else I've been a part of. The fans
of the office had this incredible warmth. I don't know
that I ever would have done that if the love
(27:53):
for the show didn't always feel so warm. It never
felt fanatical. Everybody in that bar felt like they respected
the fact that they got to have this moment where
we were all celebrating the show together, cast and fans alike,
we're all together, felt so organic, rather than like a
PR stunt. Were like and if you come down at seven,
(28:13):
like I loved. I remember the decision to get behind
the bar. There was only like fifty sixty people, and
then by the end they were like five hundred. Maybe
I'm not remembering. I remember even Steve stuck around for
the end and he kept saying, like, dude, look at this.
Like imagine being at home right now and being told like, dude,
(28:36):
you should probably come because Denzel Washington is bartending. Like
I would if I was a kid in high school,
I would be like, what you know what I mean.
And the fact that they were like, dude, the cats
from the office is bartending right now. And Steve got
back there, didn't He sure did. Yeah, I remember that
being just so special. I remember they're like they're going
to be in a parade and we're gonna have the
top down. I was like, top down, Like what's happening?
(28:58):
And then Jenn and I got into a car with
the top down, like a straight like a convertible. Yeah,
and drove up to the starting area and we saw
some people, like a lot of excited people, and then
we made that bend. We took a left down some
main street and it was like thousands of thousands of people.
(29:19):
I thought it was going to be the town of
Scranton came out and thought it was cool that you
shot in their town. It was people who had driven
or flown like people traveled to be at that moment,
and that I think was so moving to me. I
was like, I knew our show was successful, but again,
I always was moved by the success of the interpersonal
(29:42):
connection that people had. That it wasn't fandom for the
successful show. It was the feeling of connectivity that we
were all part of this show. And so I guess
that was even that late in the game, it was
still not clear to me how big our show was
in that level. Yeah, yeah, I mean to me, what
(30:05):
did you what did you take from the from the set?
What did you take on the last day? Um, I
got a story. I bet jarv Eminem's smart. There you
go jarb Eminem's and the name plate jarv Eminem's took home.
Put it on my desk. Six months pass, a year passes,
(30:25):
I look and I realized that the Eminem's were going down.
I'm like, mm hmm, that's odd. I'm definitely not eating them.
I know how old they are. Nobody in my house.
Only solution I came up with was that my house
cleaner every week was coming in walking into my office,
(30:46):
cleaning my desk and grabbing a handful of looks, it
looks like something that she could do. So I realized
I potentially was poisoning her. Yeah, so I took them, panicked,
I threw them away. So I have the you are
still there are no Eminem's. You should have put the
You should have put that on a shelf or something,
because you'd want the Eminem's from the set right. Also,
(31:07):
it's a great science experiment. Eminem's lasting for a hundred
years is probably something we should look into. We probably should.
But no, I was like, I'm I'm poisoning her. I
have to throw them away because what the The only
solution is to say to her, I know you're stealing
Eminem's from yea, by the way, you're poisoning yourself. Way,
what if it wasn't her and you're just a horrible
(31:28):
person that accused her. What if she's like, actually broke
into my house. Maybe I'm just saying it seems like
you're leading the witness there and I don't like it.
I'm just saying, what if you asked her and she goes, oh,
I'm allergic to chocolate, and then you're like com com
and then the lawn order starts for the Eminem's thanks
for asking me what I took? Um, what did you
(31:51):
take from the set? Well, it's funny. I'm only think
about it now. I think it's the only time I
ever lied to Greg. So well, you remember the last moment, right,
That was vicious. That was vicious. That was hard. Nobody
saw it? Oh boy, god, what was hard? Um? That Greg,
(32:14):
unbeknownst to us, knew what the last shot of the
day would be the last shot ever of the show,
but we didn't know. We're all goofing off and we
were leaving the office, which was very poetic, and of
course he's smart enough to have planned that, and we
were like laughing and having a great time, and then
we came back in for a reset and he was
standing there weird in the middle of the room and
(32:34):
he was like, that was the last take of the office.
And I was like, what I mean, like a bus
hit me. It was so intense, wasn't it, man? And
I was like amazing and brilliant, but also, how dare
you I think I bent over? Like I was gonna puke.
I cried very hard. Did you cry? You were? You
were like a stoic cryer, like a like a Gary
(32:56):
Cooper kind of cry, whereas I was I cry like
I laugh. I just it's it sounds like just way
too much, just way too much. But anyway, so I
remember that moment, and then everybody was going back to
their trailers and stuff to change to go to the
warehouse to do like a big presentation of a gift
or something, right, and as Jim, I didn't have like
(33:17):
a ton of stuff on your desk, yeah, and like
I took the nameplate for sure, but I was like,
I want something that is undeniably from our set. And
so I remember, like I think I lied to you,
Like you were like, so what time, because remember we
went right to the party and I super shadily ran
back in the five minutes that everybody was gone and
(33:39):
stole the dunder Mifflin sign that we always used to
walk by and do the talking heads and get this.
So then I was like, I'm a little ashamed that
I didn't tell anybody, but I really wanted it, and
I was like, you know, I'll look back on this
and it'll be like, you know, a bad high school
kid decision. So I get to the party and I
was like, Greg, what did you take? And he goes,
I'm really bummed someone took the dunder Mifflin sign. That's
(34:00):
what I wanted. And he goes, do you know who
took it? And I went no, and I legit to
his face, was like no, that is terrible who took it.
I was like, if you want it, that should be
yours and he was like right, And I was like, well,
good news days. You got tons of other stuff. And
remember he was talking about like we were going to
donate the set to the Smithsony or something. He had
that plan, so I was like, he has plenty. But
(34:22):
then the longer I thought about it, I was like,
you lied to your TV dad. Do you have it
on your wall now? Oh? Yeah, it's in my office. Yeah.
I got it framed like it looks great. Oh look
good for you. The way that night I hit a
speed bump and the eye and under Mifflin flew off
and I almost oh, I almost lost my mind. And
then Phil Shay emailed him like a year and a
half later, and I was like, bro, that's I won't
(34:45):
go back, and I don't want to, you know, kind
of like I don't want to be the one to
put it up because it's like you being the one
to add paint to a famous paintings. He was like,
I'm gonna send you an eye, like the same type
of foam and everything. I'll just send it to you.
And I was like, great, and he sent it to me.
That's amazing. And then later he sent me the Adventures
of Jimmy Halpert comic my actual bag. I thought you
(35:08):
were going to say, the bag is what you took
when I think of you. Yeah, I'm talking like five
years later. I asked for it and he sent it.
I don't know how he knew where that was, but
it was the comic. It was my dundee, and then
my bag, and then maybe my watch. I think I
had a watch that he put in there. Anyway, That's
all I have now. That was the greatest decision props wise,
that I ever made on that show, was not asking
(35:31):
for a watch early on. So I'm not having to
do with that problem beginning and the end. For you,
it's like learning not to eat on camera. That's that's again.
You're trained. You're a trained actor. I don't know about that.
I just had to learn it the hard way. Yeah,
(36:03):
you obviously wildly successful. When people approach you, Now what
percentage of it is about the office? Oh, large majority. Again,
I think it's the difference between fans who feel like
they're a part of something and fans who have watched something.
(36:24):
I think there's very few things that I watched when
I was a kid that I felt so connected to.
It was more like, oh, I like the movie e T.
But there were very few things that I felt like
if I ever saw that person, we shared a life
moment together. Had I ever met Chris Farley, I would
have said that because I watched Tommy Boy so many
(36:45):
times that he didn't know he was my best friend,
but he was my best friend. So I think that
thing is like I shared so much in my life
with that show. That's why I think that people, you know,
people have seen other things, which is great. Certainly recently,
like I think Quiet Place, Jack Ryan people are coming
up a lot more. But I I think our fans
(37:06):
see me and instead of going up to an actor
to get a picture or something, they're actually seeing a
friend of theirs. Is my point. My long meandering point
is no one looks at Jack Ryan. I was like,
oh my god, my buddy, Jack Ryan, Oh my god,
you're an actor. I didn't realize they do think that
with Jim and I've had my favorite experiences with fans
is when they think we've gone to school together or something.
(37:27):
That's my favorite. Like I I had one where a
woman said we know each other and I said do
we and she goes, we went to school together and
I was like, I don't. I don't think we did,
and she went, yes, we did. And it was like
that thing of like why am I being awkward about it?
And where did you go to school? And she said
some school and I went, I did not go to
that school and she went, yes, you did, and like
(37:48):
I was like okay, and then I left and I
could see that either else someone else has been like,
you don't know that person. You just thought that it
was at the airport bookshop, and then through the window
you saw them being like in silence, being like, oh no,
god it was. But I think that that's such a
credit to the show that you don't just like the show,
you actually think you know those people. Yes, because I
(38:10):
I by the way, I'm not necessarily comparing you to
Ted dancing in exactly the same way. No, But I
just mean like Ted Danson was doing a lot of
stuff and immediately after Cheers, but there was something about
Cheers sam alone that everything else, not even that other
things wouldn't have been as good or better, but Cheers
(38:34):
was what I shared because there was a purity to
that experience that you had watched the same with me.
I mean, I was. I grew up in Boston, like
Cheers was a form of like television religion or something. Yeah,
I will take a comparison to Ted danceing anytime. Then
I won't do that agoin God damn it. Here, put
(38:54):
on these airphones. I want you to hear something. I'm
playing something for everybody. Boy, we should have had these
on the whole time. I would have. I would have
changed my voice. Um, don't ever, ever, when I have
earphones on and I have your tone right in my ear,
don't talk low like that. My voice slips and Nope,
(39:16):
I just would have slips around. I don't like that
in my head. I don't like your voice slipping around
in my ear. Um, we play clip six for me?
Clip six? I thought it was weird when you picked
us to make a documentary. But all in all, I
think an ordinary paper company like dunder Mifflin was a
(39:38):
great subject for a documentary. There's a lot of beauty
and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point? So
Gregg wrote that clearly for him, that was the point.
(39:58):
What did you think the It was the point of
what shooting the show? Sorry, my brain just exploded again. Um.
I think that that is so beautiful that writing, and
I would only suspect that it came from someone who
created the show, because someone who creates the show and
doesn't just act on the show would have to have
(40:20):
in their head a beginning, middle, and end, and you're
shooting for something, and I love that that's what he
was shooting for. What are you most thankful for? Oh
my god? Everything? I mean, are you asking me as
a person? Well, I mean, without sounding hyperball, it's it
is my everything. I mean, that show changed my entire
(40:44):
life twenty three when it started, so I hadn't even
really formed an identity of who I was, and so
that show not only from a career perspective, where I've
had more opportunity than I ever would have dreamt of
having for one day, I have for an entire lifetime.
Is all due to that show. I never would be
doing any other thing that you've seen me do, writing, directing, acting,
(41:06):
and something else if it wasn't for that show. But
as a person, I think it sort of gave me
this very quintessential building block that I got to stand
on to build the rest of my life. Yeah, you're
you're about to say, that's all crack of ship? What what? What?
What would you say? I think it's very similar. I
(41:28):
think I was processing what you were saying that because
of the people who were working on it, not just
the actors, but the writers who are like all showrunners
now from the early season, you know, who are extremely successful,
fun good shows. It's but also our crew. Like you said,
like you know again in a very probably lame, cliche,
(41:49):
hallmark way, like I don't know that as a person
I would be able to have the luxury forget you know,
success or fine dance or anything. It's the luxury of
being who I wanted to be. I didn't know who
I wanted to be. And because of such a warm
environment where if everyone had a color, people were splashing
(42:11):
their experience and their colors all over me. I got
exposed to everything I wanted to be and then got
to choose to move forward with my life in a
way that I not only didn't know existed, but that
I could sustain. Like that you could, you could do
fantastic fun stuff every day for ten years of your life.
(42:32):
And genuinely, I've been asked. I'm sure you get asked
all the time, what year were you guys? All over it?
Like when were you guys? Like, we're over it? And
I genuinely am trying not to look back with revisionist history.
I don't remember one moment where I was like, such
a job. Yeah, would you do a reunion? I'm asking
(42:56):
the questions, what are you? What are you doing now?
I just feel like we're you picked up pencil, You're
like doodling. No, I just wanted I was thinking about
writing some questions down for you, and then I started
do doling my Um, what was your question? Would you
want to do a reunion or a show like a
reunion show? Yeah? I don't know that you want to
be on a reboot, right? I think that I think
(43:20):
with the right idea because clearly the show is bigger
now than it was. Sure, and that's all great. That's
again that's the that's the business side of it. I
think that for me, it's really simply down to wouldn't
that be fun? Like just throw an episode out there,
almost like they did the Christmas specials for the British one.
(43:42):
What I like about the idea is that it doesn't
have to be better or worse than any of the
episodes we've ever done. It would actually be cool to
just tell a story just like no stakes. Yeah, um,
thanks blood, You're welcome. Is it over? Yeah? I mean,
do you have anything else you want to say? I mean,
we feel like we covered a lot of topics, we
(44:03):
covered a lot of ground. I don't know what I said. Um, John,
I love you so much and I appreciate you coming
and talking to me. This is great. But also it's
just so good to see you. It's so good to
see you. I feel like I just went to a
therapy session. You did, you did great? Which you don't
cut yourself out of this, you you You'll get my bill. Um.
(44:27):
We still have headphones on, which allows me to do that.
I don't want to slip around. I don't want your
slipper I don't want to slipping around in my brain
or ear. Um are we done? Can I please get
him out of here? All right? Ali? Guys, dude, thank you,
(44:47):
welcome dude, Thank you John. Why do you always have
to ruin everything? Just the slippering? I'm just kidding. That
(45:09):
was incredible. Thank you so much for coming on the show,
and to all of my listeners, thank you for making
us a part of your day. Well, we'll be back
soon with another tantalizing conversation, big word and a very
(45:29):
big announcement. What could it be? But until then, make
sure to leave us a review and just you know,
have an amazing week for me. We'll see them the Office.
(45:53):
Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
Our producers for this episode are Liz Hayes, Emily Carr,
and Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
(46:13):
my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
by Seth Olandski
Oh, I'm John Krasinski and I played Jim Helbert on
The Office. Hello everyone, thanks for stopping by today. You
know what today feels like, Well, it feels like the
perfect day for a new episode of the Office Deep Dive.
(00:27):
Do you see what I did? I am your host
Brian Baumgartner, and I am beyond excited, giddy in fact,
to bring back my main man, John Krasinski for the
second half of our conversation today, and boy, are you
in for a treat because this time we go deep. Okay,
we always go deep, but seriously, I made him blush.
(00:49):
I made him cry. Well, he didn't quite cry, but
he did go into details of the way he cries,
which is all in like everything else he does. I
even got to well or I was forced to hear
his sexy voice in my brain, and if I'm honest,
I would be okay never hearing that again. But maybe
(01:13):
you'll feel differently now. If you've been listening to this
podcast since the very beginning, you've heard me talk about
how the Office is a family a few times. Well,
John really gets into why that's the case and why
the Office is not just a family. For the cast
and crew who were there, but for you too, Yes, you,
(01:35):
the person listening to this right now. So few shows
have been able to cross that threshold where it really
feels like you know the characters that you're watching on
screen and not to tute our own horns, but I
really think with this show we achieved that. And that's why,
no matter how many movies he directs, or how successful
(01:59):
he becomes, how many billboards he is on, John Krasinski
will always be Jim Halpert, Everyone's favorite goofy haired prankster.
So please join me in welcoming back, my old friend
and yours, John Krasinski. Bubble and Squeak, I love Bubble
(02:27):
and Squigan. Bubble and Squeaker cook at every month lift
over from the Night Before. The Office was constructed in
(02:48):
the opposite way than most comedies, or certainly television comedies,
where typically the leads are the young lovers and then
you've got a crazy uncle or the crazy boss that
that is back in the corner coming No um. This
(03:10):
show was the reverse which which is which? Which was
putting and specifically the moments and examining like why Jim
and Pam, like why that relationship became so important to people?
And so charged was people weren't watching a half hour
of it. They were just stealing a moment from the corner,
(03:31):
which makes you like, I want to lean forward. And
the other thing was there's an idea that when you generalize,
it becomes more universal, right, like this is generally who
this guy is from this midwestern town. But the amount
of specificity and reality both in those moments between Jim
(03:55):
and Dwight and Jim and Pam. The opposite is true
that the more ccific you get, that the character has
become infinitely more real and therefore universal and relatable. To me,
that idea is is interesting. No, I think it's I
think it's really true, and I think that's sort of
the magic trick of the show is. And I don't
(04:18):
I don't know the specifics of why it's so huge now.
I mean, it's mind blowing to me. A four year
old came up to me at the airport and was like,
it's my favorite show and I was like, do you
get any of it? And they're like, yeah, like it
totally universal, like you said. But I also think that
the stakes were set up so wonderfully because that's real life, right.
(04:38):
I think when you're in love with someone, especially someone
at work. You very much look forward to those interactions
at work, but that means that when you go home,
in your home life with your friends or whatever else
you're doing, you will not see that person. So you
are sort of, I don't know, tantalized by the idea
that like, when I get that moment, I'll savor it.
And I think that's real life, and that's what did
(05:00):
in the show. I particularly, I'm thinking right now about
the relationship with Roy, you know what I mean. It's
like it's like lighting a fuse that might blow six
weeks from now, but it was a very specific fuse, right,
So the first time you saw me and David together,
people were like, oh, okay, so you just told me
(05:20):
that this is a potentially explosive thing, and then we
didn't go into it. You'd reference him a couple of times,
and it was very specific references, and she said that
he brought me to the game and left me at
the arena, like things like that, where you're just slowly
leading the breadcrumbs back to the trigger, and then by
the time he comes in and pushes me, you're so
(05:43):
invested in that. Not in a television way I think
in like a like these people are my friends, Oh right,
my friend as much as I love them together, is
trying to go after a girl who's taken. That's real
life steaks rather than TV steaks. And I think that's
what made it like the first time that we accidentally
(06:04):
kissed at Dundees and like that's real life, whereas a
regular television show would have a big, huge kiss sing
like they finally got together and it was I remember
reading that script and being like, man, that is so
smart that have the audience be like did they just kiss?
And it's and not give them what they thought they want.
It was so because that's how I felt. I felt like,
(06:24):
oh my god, I thought we're gonna do some huge
kissing and instead she just did it at Dundees and
you're like, oh my god. And of course I would
have stewed on that for months and been like was
that did that count? Was she just drunk? Rather than
if it was a big kiss scene where I took
her out back and like, you know, made some huge overture,
(06:46):
you'd be like, oh good, I'm being entertained by this moment.
But I don't feel anything. I'm not connected I don't
know if any of that made sense. No, that's so smart,
I think. I um, I think people see themselves in
the show, and it's a combination I would imagine of
every character, you know. I don't think you look at
one character and you go like, oh, I'm Michael. I
(07:07):
hope you're not Michael. But it's more like, oh, man,
I have a co worker that loves cats, and I
have a coworker that drives me insane. I don't know.
Maybe that's it, And certainly people have bosses that are crazy, right, Yeah,
it's what you were talking about, I think is so true.
I had a conversation with Greg where traditional sitcoms there's
(07:32):
a rhythm, there's a rhythm to the joke. It's it's
totally on the beat. And I think that in the
relationship between Jim and Pam, everything happened off of the beat,
not at the time you expected, right from moments way early,
like right like in terms of like the progression. But
(07:54):
then also what Greg talked about a little bit was
once it got to a certain point that he was like, well,
we need to get them together, Like I'm not going
to create artificial impediments that make everybody go like, come
on right, because I think he had brought this audience
in to a very seemingly realistic relationship. So if you
(08:16):
started doing weird things that felt fake, then people wouldn't
relate to it anymore. I'm saying, like, I love I
can admit on this podcast. I was never like a
casting No. I wasn't really great with dating, and I
feel and I think that's what's so great about the
show is how do you go about that? Like how
(08:36):
do you start a relationship with someone who's already with someone?
It's a great place to start, and then just you know, slowly,
you know. I remember also how bold it was that
when you thought you would do something, you know, like
proposed to her, he would write an entire episode where
you're like, oh man, and at the end, this is
gonna be the proposal because again in TV, you know
(08:59):
that like the big scenes are coming, and he wouldn't
do it. And then when I did propose, I love
that talking head where I was like, I've been planning
on this forever, like I love that, you know. Um,
I've said to people that nothing shut down production like
an important gem and pan moment, like when there were
(09:22):
moments between the two down. No, I mean like shut
it down right right, like like like you're blushing right now.
But it's I mean like Casino night and not and
not just one, two different moments in Casino Night because
the relationship was so important to the two of you
and getting it right totally. I remember those two moments
(09:44):
very well. I remember the parking lot Yeah, it's funny
now that you say that, Yeah, which must have been
frustrating for you, Like, oh, you'd be like, oh, please
just get me out of here before they filmed this,
or it's going to be seven hours. Well we were
in there that seven hours. But again I had never
experienced anything else, so that was weird for me. Was
(10:07):
I remember like there was an energy around those moments.
I remember. I remember so many different things, but I
remember that parking lot scene. I remember not knowing where
Matt was and Ken wouldn't tell me, and he was like,
don't worry about it, just do the scene or whatever,
you know, and I thought that was cool. And then
certainly I remember the like the big moment, the big
(10:27):
kiss that was shut down, like that was nobody was
on set, nobody was around the craft service table, but
I didn't know that was happening. So I walked on,
you know, ready to joke with folks, and they were
like not wanting to make eye contact with me, and
I was like, what happened? I feel like I said
something to you, like I was going on. I know.
I kind of remember that too. And then it made
me more nervous because then they were like, all right, now,
(10:49):
maybe you should go out the door and whenever you're ready,
come in. And I was like, what's happening. There is
no I'm gonna call action, and they're like, no, man,
well do you remember that night? I remember, I remember
because you were so frustrated you were still there. No,
I just I remember it being so big. I think
the thing that I am most proud of artistically he
(11:12):
is not blowing your top in that moment in the
shot in the show was every single shot where the
camera was positioned, just the discussion about are the cameras
in the room, Are the characters aware the cameras in
the room, How does that change behavior based on the
fact that the cameras are in the room or if
(11:34):
they think that they're alone. And I think that at
that moment, specifically, at the end of Casino Night. You
see the slats in the blinds and them shooting and
catching you guys that they're such an intimacy, you know.
It's like Randall and Matt were to my favorite people
on Earth and I couldn't see them, and like, I
don't even think I got to see the set before
(11:55):
I went up, you know what I mean? Like it
was also weird, and I'm sure for a better actor
you'd think like, oh, that's what you need, right, And
so I was like I am a terrible actor because
I don't know, I'm nervous, and maybe that was the intention,
but I was like, I don't even know. Remember, Randall
wasn't anywhere, and usually I was like what are we doing?
Like what what? What? What? How? Where do you want
me to be? Whenever? And it was really weird. I
(12:18):
was so freaked out. And I remember I was on
set for a while before Jenna got onto because Jenna
was taking her moment, which is fine, but again I
was so not knowing of that world that I didn't
know that I could take thirty minutes in my trailer
to prepare. Mentally, I was like, mentally, what's happened? And
then I got so much more scared, and I was like,
you know, then you start to think, like, oh god,
(12:39):
I didn't do my homework and she's doing her homework. Right.
Were you on board with the trajectory of Jim and
Pam's relationship, like just in terms of the timing, did
you have concerns about it happening to soon? No, it
sounds like a hallmark version of Greg, but I truly
and Greg I trusted. I could tell that he had
(13:01):
to beat on it. He was always so nice to
involve Jenna, and I remember that he would tell you
kind of when things were going to happen, and he
would remind you in scenes, you know, don't worry. This
isn't the moment that's going to lead to this, that
will happen later, like he he had it all tracked out. Also,
we were what in season five or six by the
time that I was in that motel with that other
(13:21):
girl and stuff like that, And that's the only time
I remember putting whatever, put my foot down, not really,
but I remember I got that was the only time
I was very much against because he was saying, you're
going to actually make out with her in this scene,
and that was the episode I directed. Yes, that's right,
that's the bed Bucks And I don't remember. It might
have been an earlier version about you guys making out,
(13:43):
but I remember that was the only time we had
like a it was like a bad, negative moment. But
I remember being in a room and it was like
I remember finding myself kind of saying things that I
never thought i'd say before, like I'm not going to
shoot it. I remember Paul Lieberstein was in the room.
He was like, no, you you will do it in
an aggressive way, but it was like he saw the
(14:05):
benefit of doing it. And I remember saying to Greg,
there's a threshold with which you can push our audience.
They are so dedicated, we have shown such great respect
to them. There's a level of messing with them that
you've done, like in a great way. I mean like
you've messed with them by the whole kiss happening too early.
And I think there's a moment where if you push
(14:26):
them too far, they'll never come back. And I think
that if you show Jim to be cheating, they'll never
come back. Yeah, And I what did you think? That's right?
You directed? What what was your field? Well? My recollection, Well,
It was never that you were going to make out,
but it was about there was what was the line?
(14:48):
How far can we go? I was supposed to kiss
her in that bathroom. I remember that's what they were pitching,
and I was like, I don't know that that's going
to go well for us. But even just you being
in a room him with her, you know, how would
you behave even if you didn't think the cameras were there,
because the cameras were shooting from outside and they weren't
(15:08):
in the room except when Dwight came in. Um. Anyway,
the whole point is the passion for which you fought
and Jenna fought and Greg like that. Everybody was collaboratively.
Oh that's why it wasn't a negative fight. It was
a big conversation because again it was so important to everybody. Yeah,
(15:30):
but also I had trusted Greg up to that point,
and it was really hard for me to say, I
think we're actually making the wrong decision, right, so Steve, Well,
(15:58):
I'm gonna start with us. When you found out that
Steve was leaving, Oh yeah, what did you think was
the greater loss, Michael or Steve? Jesus, It's like a
existential crack right there in the Yeah, my brain literally
(16:19):
just melted. Oh my god. I mean, it's weird, right.
I think there might be one of those esoteric, kind
of actory bogus things that happened, which is we kind
of started blending ourselves and our characters because we spent
so much time together, and Steve and I had a
(16:41):
really wonderful relationship We started because we were both from
Boston and we really had a great friendship, and even
though we didn't hang out all that much, I felt
very deeply connected to him, and he was always so nice.
So I think that I think I have to be
honest and say it was losing Steve because as much
as he was so good on the show, his presence
(17:03):
on the set was fantastic and mean he was. He
was as professional as it gets. He was your clean
up hitter, just crushed everything that he was thrown. And
so I think I'm saying I think what I'm getting
at is, in that moment, it felt like the end
of an era. It felt like the the end of
something more than even losing Steve or losing Michael. It
(17:23):
felt like the end of our show in a way,
or that evolution of our show. It's like when you
graduate college, your life isn't over, but that version of
your life will never come back. You'll never have your
college years again or your high school years again. Um,
(17:44):
that's what it felt like. I felt like we were
graduating college that day. I'm trying to figure it out
in real time. Why I cried so hard when we
did that scene. I also remember him crying, and I
was not expecting that. I thought that he was so
good at comedy that he was able to be like,
it's just a scene, then will cry after or not
(18:05):
or whatever. And the energy in that room was so
thick and palpable that when they called action or go ahead,
I remember Steve tiered up right away, and that was
so unlike him. Not that he was an emotionless but
it was like it was so unlike him to let
real life bleed into the moment, right. I think, I think,
I actually remember. The actual number was seventeen takes of
(18:26):
not even speaking, just just dribbling crying. For me, it's
I mean, you talked about it, you were waiting tables.
I was doing theater for you know, some class, sometimes
seventeen people you know or whatever, Like everybody we all
grew up together, and there was like Greg as like
(18:50):
our on set dad, but like Steve as like the
greatest brother you could have. Yeah. Yeah, it was like
the steady brother, you know, whether it's like John Steinbecker,
Arthur Miller, like there was always like a steady brother
and we were all the crazy people and he was
always really steady. Yeah no, But I mean I was
(19:11):
twenty three years old when we started shooting season one,
and I look back and I'm like, I basically graduated college,
had two and a half years. Like I was shot
out of a literal canon, because my my life wasn't
real life. I was living in a fantasy camp because
(19:33):
every day I was going to work on something I
loved and something that was edgy and fun, and I
would have watched in anyway. But like you said, we
were also intermingling in a way that was such perfection.
I've never been on a job since where every single
human being, from crew member to you know, actor was
so in tune and such a family. I always felt
(19:54):
bad for the guests actors. Did you feel that? And
you had to pop in for one episode? Oh? And
I thought that must be awful, because here I am
being like, right, who you picking up in the second
round of fantasy and like They're like, no, this is
a big show, and I'm like, it's not. It's fine.
I mean of your m and m's are like just
goofing off and then like throwing things at each other
(20:15):
in the middle of scenes, and people were probably like, dude,
this is my big break. We were trying to throw
stuff at each other when the camera, when the camera
wasn't on us. We were throwing a football in the
middle and I remember there were a couple of people
who were like, did not like the football throw? Yeah,
stop you jackasses, And I was like, what's the big deal?
And yeah, like Amy Adams, I thought did the best
(20:37):
job of it. She came in and somehow felt like
she was always on the show. Remember she wasn't the
original purse girl did kill someone else. And then all
of a sudden Amy showed up and I was like, oh,
there's been a recast and she was not nervous, not scared,
came in and was like yeah, I'm I'm not taking
this too seriously either. I'm just super good at my
(20:59):
job and then crushed. It was one of the best
storylines we've ever had. I love that storyline because I
loved how she ended her character where she was understanding
of how much I loved Pam and you're like that
was also Rob Wriggle, Right, that was Riggles Booze, Cris
(21:19):
Riggle god, one of the funniest human beings I've ever
met in my life. Do you remember anything about that?
Speaking of boost Cruise, the twenty seven seconds of silence,
that was a big deal for the fans. I remember
was there a discussion when we were shooting. I remember
I felt it was a big deal when someone gave
me the number of twenty seven seconds, because if someone
(21:40):
counted it surely wasn't us, and so it had aired
and someone timed it, which meant that it was a
big enough deal to time it rather than remember how
silent they were. I remember that. I also remember, do
you remember we had shot to like the wee hours
and the sun was cracking and we drove back on
a boat and it it conked out. It conked out, Yeah,
And we were in pitch black water, like terrifying, scary,
(22:04):
shark infested, shark infested water, and we were just kind
of crapped out on a tiny boat and we were
all exhausted and the other boat got there just in time.
They had left and we were like, this is gonna
be a while. Remember that was terrifying. Yeah, I remember
Phillis was on our boat. It was you Phillis. It
(22:24):
wasn't coopas he got off on the good one. Was
it Angela? I think Angela was there anyway? Was that
season two? Well? And that was the episode. As we're filming,
you know, seven pm to seven am. I wake up
from like sleeping all during the day and have like
(22:47):
seventy four messages from my agents saying the office wants
to make you a serious regular. Where are you? I
remember that. I remember being in the parking lot before
we went to the boat, and you were very nice
to say, I want to talk to you about this
and get your take on it. And we talked a
lot about it. You took none of my advice, No,
none of them. Um, did you think the show could
(23:10):
go forward? When Steve laughed, I knew the show could
go forward. I didn't know what the plan was. I
couldn't see through the trees. Um. But again that's where
I really trusted Greg. I remember when they came to
us for season nine. I had a very honest conversation
with Greg. He called me about season nine and said,
(23:37):
what do you think? And I said, you have to
end the show. I was like, I don't want to
negotiate because we none of us had contracts. Since I
was like, this isn't about a negotiation. You have to
end the show before they end it for us, because
I was like, it's coming to an end regardless. You
don't want to be the one that like. And he
by the way, it wasn't. I wasn't telling him anything.
You didn't know. I just felt with the landscape of
(23:57):
what other shows were on and whatever that like. And
again keep in mind we were not even as popular
then as we are now. It's like I remember that
feeling of like we don't want to be taken out
back right, I think I'll go up behind the shed.
I don't want too for sure. That is a lesson
(24:18):
you everyone should abide by. Um what did you think
did you want to did you think we should have
kept going? I remember being conflicted, but ultimately I felt
like that was the right decision, and I mean conflicted
just that you did well, that it that it could
have well I think what was inevitable was and I
(24:39):
just call it the e er syndrome, Like, I think
the writing was there that people were going to begin
to leave, and so it's like, oh, okay, are we
going to e er this? And are we going twenty?
To me, there was sort of like are we going
to stop at nine or we going twenty? It totally
could have gone twenty because everybody would have slowly cycled
(24:59):
out and we just kept the reality of it. My
question is would people have wanting to see that, not
not that people are leaving, but that they would be
like I am now aware of the fact is the
TV show and we ended it before you Technically you
gave them that respect of saying, you guys have been
so good to us. We don't want to be taken
out back behind the shine the wood shed. No. I think.
(25:20):
So here's what I know that I believe that that story,
like the idea that this documentary is actually going to
air and these characters are going to watch it, that
had to happen right then or that never happens. I
think because you can't do that after twenty years, when
(25:41):
you're on your and your third cast. I think that's
that's really true. Um, finale comes. I mean you mentioned
that you you felt like we needed to end, and
you were clear with Greg season nine. Once the finale
finally comes, are you prepared for it? No? No, But
(26:02):
I I don't know. I might have an issue that
I need to look into, which is like I I
think I tried to disengage from things and then they
kind of catch up to me later. So while we
were shooting, I was very disengaged to the fact that
that also meant that it was ending, that we had
called our shot, which I loved in theory, but I
didn't really let my brain be like, oh my god,
(26:24):
only two weeks left, only two episodes left, only two
scenes left, only you know whatever. And I think a
big thing that helped was when we went to Scranton.
I think that getting together and having some version of
a life experience that felt like we were memorializing it
helped because I don't know if I would have been
(26:45):
good having the finale just come out. What do you do?
Do you do? I like call you and be like, so,
what what do you think about last night's episode? You
know what? I mean? Like there, I didn't know what
to do, so I think that really helped. When we
went to Scranton, that felt really Um, that was a
really special experience for me. Right, I want to show
(27:07):
you something? Is it me behind the bar? I don't
why Why would you ruin something when I'm god, I'm
trying to like, I know you took a picture of
me behind the bar because I got paranoid about it. Um,
my favorite picture of me and you and Jenna behind
the bar. Behind the bar in Scratton. That was so
(27:29):
much fun and nothing that I would have thought I
would be doing. But I remember you had told me
you had done this before, and then you told me
how awesome it wasn't how amazing all the people were
Unlike anything else I've been a part of. The fans
of the office had this incredible warmth. I don't know
that I ever would have done that if the love
(27:53):
for the show didn't always feel so warm. It never
felt fanatical. Everybody in that bar felt like they respected
the fact that they got to have this moment where
we were all celebrating the show together, cast and fans alike,
we're all together, felt so organic, rather than like a
PR stunt. Were like and if you come down at seven,
(28:13):
like I loved. I remember the decision to get behind
the bar. There was only like fifty sixty people, and
then by the end they were like five hundred. Maybe
I'm not remembering. I remember even Steve stuck around for
the end and he kept saying, like, dude, look at this.
Like imagine being at home right now and being told like, dude,
(28:36):
you should probably come because Denzel Washington is bartending. Like
I would if I was a kid in high school,
I would be like, what you know what I mean.
And the fact that they were like, dude, the cats
from the office is bartending right now. And Steve got
back there, didn't He sure did. Yeah, I remember that
being just so special. I remember they're like they're going
to be in a parade and we're gonna have the
top down. I was like, top down, Like what's happening?
(28:58):
And then Jenn and I got into a car with
the top down, like a straight like a convertible. Yeah,
and drove up to the starting area and we saw
some people, like a lot of excited people, and then
we made that bend. We took a left down some
main street and it was like thousands of thousands of people.
(29:19):
I thought it was going to be the town of
Scranton came out and thought it was cool that you
shot in their town. It was people who had driven
or flown like people traveled to be at that moment,
and that I think was so moving to me. I
was like, I knew our show was successful, but again,
I always was moved by the success of the interpersonal
(29:42):
connection that people had. That it wasn't fandom for the
successful show. It was the feeling of connectivity that we
were all part of this show. And so I guess
that was even that late in the game, it was
still not clear to me how big our show was
in that level. Yeah, yeah, I mean to me, what
(30:05):
did you what did you take from the from the set?
What did you take on the last day? Um, I
got a story. I bet jarv Eminem's smart. There you
go jarb Eminem's and the name plate jarv Eminem's took home.
Put it on my desk. Six months pass, a year passes,
(30:25):
I look and I realized that the Eminem's were going down.
I'm like, mm hmm, that's odd. I'm definitely not eating them.
I know how old they are. Nobody in my house.
Only solution I came up with was that my house
cleaner every week was coming in walking into my office,
(30:46):
cleaning my desk and grabbing a handful of looks, it
looks like something that she could do. So I realized
I potentially was poisoning her. Yeah, so I took them, panicked,
I threw them away. So I have the you are
still there are no Eminem's. You should have put the
You should have put that on a shelf or something,
because you'd want the Eminem's from the set right. Also,
(31:07):
it's a great science experiment. Eminem's lasting for a hundred
years is probably something we should look into. We probably should.
But no, I was like, I'm I'm poisoning her. I
have to throw them away because what the The only
solution is to say to her, I know you're stealing
Eminem's from yea, by the way, you're poisoning yourself. Way,
what if it wasn't her and you're just a horrible
(31:28):
person that accused her. What if she's like, actually broke
into my house. Maybe I'm just saying it seems like
you're leading the witness there and I don't like it.
I'm just saying, what if you asked her and she goes, oh,
I'm allergic to chocolate, and then you're like com com
and then the lawn order starts for the Eminem's thanks
for asking me what I took? Um, what did you
(31:51):
take from the set? Well, it's funny. I'm only think
about it now. I think it's the only time I
ever lied to Greg. So well, you remember the last moment, right,
That was vicious. That was vicious. That was hard. Nobody
saw it? Oh boy, god, what was hard? Um? That Greg,
(32:14):
unbeknownst to us, knew what the last shot of the
day would be the last shot ever of the show,
but we didn't know. We're all goofing off and we
were leaving the office, which was very poetic, and of
course he's smart enough to have planned that, and we
were like laughing and having a great time, and then
we came back in for a reset and he was
standing there weird in the middle of the room and
(32:34):
he was like, that was the last take of the office.
And I was like, what I mean, like a bus
hit me. It was so intense, wasn't it, man? And
I was like amazing and brilliant, but also, how dare
you I think I bent over? Like I was gonna puke.
I cried very hard. Did you cry? You were? You
were like a stoic cryer, like a like a Gary
(32:56):
Cooper kind of cry, whereas I was I cry like
I laugh. I just it's it sounds like just way
too much, just way too much. But anyway, so I
remember that moment, and then everybody was going back to
their trailers and stuff to change to go to the
warehouse to do like a big presentation of a gift
or something, right, and as Jim, I didn't have like
(33:17):
a ton of stuff on your desk, yeah, and like
I took the nameplate for sure, but I was like,
I want something that is undeniably from our set. And
so I remember, like I think I lied to you,
Like you were like, so what time, because remember we
went right to the party and I super shadily ran
back in the five minutes that everybody was gone and
(33:39):
stole the dunder Mifflin sign that we always used to
walk by and do the talking heads and get this.
So then I was like, I'm a little ashamed that
I didn't tell anybody, but I really wanted it, and
I was like, you know, I'll look back on this
and it'll be like, you know, a bad high school
kid decision. So I get to the party and I
was like, Greg, what did you take? And he goes,
I'm really bummed someone took the dunder Mifflin sign. That's
(34:00):
what I wanted. And he goes, do you know who
took it? And I went no, and I legit to
his face, was like no, that is terrible who took it.
I was like, if you want it, that should be
yours and he was like right, And I was like, well,
good news days. You got tons of other stuff. And
remember he was talking about like we were going to
donate the set to the Smithsony or something. He had
that plan, so I was like, he has plenty. But
(34:22):
then the longer I thought about it, I was like,
you lied to your TV dad. Do you have it
on your wall now? Oh? Yeah, it's in my office. Yeah.
I got it framed like it looks great. Oh look
good for you. The way that night I hit a
speed bump and the eye and under Mifflin flew off
and I almost oh, I almost lost my mind. And
then Phil Shay emailed him like a year and a
half later, and I was like, bro, that's I won't
(34:45):
go back, and I don't want to, you know, kind
of like I don't want to be the one to
put it up because it's like you being the one
to add paint to a famous paintings. He was like,
I'm gonna send you an eye, like the same type
of foam and everything. I'll just send it to you.
And I was like, great, and he sent it to me.
That's amazing. And then later he sent me the Adventures
of Jimmy Halpert comic my actual bag. I thought you
(35:08):
were going to say, the bag is what you took
when I think of you. Yeah, I'm talking like five
years later. I asked for it and he sent it.
I don't know how he knew where that was, but
it was the comic. It was my dundee, and then
my bag, and then maybe my watch. I think I
had a watch that he put in there. Anyway, That's
all I have now. That was the greatest decision props wise,
that I ever made on that show, was not asking
(35:31):
for a watch early on. So I'm not having to
do with that problem beginning and the end. For you,
it's like learning not to eat on camera. That's that's again.
You're trained. You're a trained actor. I don't know about that.
I just had to learn it the hard way. Yeah,
(36:03):
you obviously wildly successful. When people approach you, Now what
percentage of it is about the office? Oh, large majority. Again,
I think it's the difference between fans who feel like
they're a part of something and fans who have watched something.
(36:24):
I think there's very few things that I watched when
I was a kid that I felt so connected to.
It was more like, oh, I like the movie e T.
But there were very few things that I felt like
if I ever saw that person, we shared a life
moment together. Had I ever met Chris Farley, I would
have said that because I watched Tommy Boy so many
(36:45):
times that he didn't know he was my best friend,
but he was my best friend. So I think that
thing is like I shared so much in my life
with that show. That's why I think that people, you know,
people have seen other things, which is great. Certainly recently,
like I think Quiet Place, Jack Ryan people are coming
up a lot more. But I I think our fans
(37:06):
see me and instead of going up to an actor
to get a picture or something, they're actually seeing a
friend of theirs. Is my point. My long meandering point
is no one looks at Jack Ryan. I was like,
oh my god, my buddy, Jack Ryan, Oh my god,
you're an actor. I didn't realize they do think that
with Jim and I've had my favorite experiences with fans
is when they think we've gone to school together or something.
(37:27):
That's my favorite. Like I I had one where a
woman said we know each other and I said do
we and she goes, we went to school together and
I was like, I don't. I don't think we did,
and she went, yes, we did. And it was like
that thing of like why am I being awkward about it?
And where did you go to school? And she said
some school and I went, I did not go to
that school and she went, yes, you did, and like
(37:48):
I was like okay, and then I left and I
could see that either else someone else has been like,
you don't know that person. You just thought that it
was at the airport bookshop, and then through the window
you saw them being like in silence, being like, oh no,
god it was. But I think that that's such a
credit to the show that you don't just like the show,
you actually think you know those people. Yes, because I
(38:10):
I by the way, I'm not necessarily comparing you to
Ted dancing in exactly the same way. No, But I
just mean like Ted Danson was doing a lot of
stuff and immediately after Cheers, but there was something about
Cheers sam alone that everything else, not even that other
things wouldn't have been as good or better, but Cheers
(38:34):
was what I shared because there was a purity to
that experience that you had watched the same with me.
I mean, I was. I grew up in Boston, like
Cheers was a form of like television religion or something. Yeah,
I will take a comparison to Ted danceing anytime. Then
I won't do that agoin God damn it. Here, put
(38:54):
on these airphones. I want you to hear something. I'm
playing something for everybody. Boy, we should have had these
on the whole time. I would have. I would have
changed my voice. Um, don't ever, ever, when I have
earphones on and I have your tone right in my ear,
don't talk low like that. My voice slips and Nope,
(39:16):
I just would have slips around. I don't like that
in my head. I don't like your voice slipping around
in my ear. Um, we play clip six for me?
Clip six? I thought it was weird when you picked
us to make a documentary. But all in all, I
think an ordinary paper company like dunder Mifflin was a
(39:38):
great subject for a documentary. There's a lot of beauty
and ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point? So
Gregg wrote that clearly for him, that was the point.
(39:58):
What did you think the It was the point of
what shooting the show? Sorry, my brain just exploded again. Um.
I think that that is so beautiful that writing, and
I would only suspect that it came from someone who
created the show, because someone who creates the show and
doesn't just act on the show would have to have
(40:20):
in their head a beginning, middle, and end, and you're
shooting for something, and I love that that's what he
was shooting for. What are you most thankful for? Oh
my god? Everything? I mean, are you asking me as
a person? Well, I mean, without sounding hyperball, it's it
is my everything. I mean, that show changed my entire
(40:44):
life twenty three when it started, so I hadn't even
really formed an identity of who I was, and so
that show not only from a career perspective, where I've
had more opportunity than I ever would have dreamt of
having for one day, I have for an entire lifetime.
Is all due to that show. I never would be
doing any other thing that you've seen me do, writing, directing, acting,
(41:06):
and something else if it wasn't for that show. But
as a person, I think it sort of gave me
this very quintessential building block that I got to stand
on to build the rest of my life. Yeah, you're
you're about to say, that's all crack of ship? What what? What?
What would you say? I think it's very similar. I
(41:28):
think I was processing what you were saying that because
of the people who were working on it, not just
the actors, but the writers who are like all showrunners
now from the early season, you know, who are extremely successful,
fun good shows. It's but also our crew. Like you said,
like you know again in a very probably lame, cliche,
(41:49):
hallmark way, like I don't know that as a person
I would be able to have the luxury forget you know,
success or fine dance or anything. It's the luxury of
being who I wanted to be. I didn't know who
I wanted to be. And because of such a warm
environment where if everyone had a color, people were splashing
(42:11):
their experience and their colors all over me. I got
exposed to everything I wanted to be and then got
to choose to move forward with my life in a
way that I not only didn't know existed, but that
I could sustain. Like that you could, you could do
fantastic fun stuff every day for ten years of your life.
(42:32):
And genuinely, I've been asked. I'm sure you get asked
all the time, what year were you guys? All over it?
Like when were you guys? Like, we're over it? And
I genuinely am trying not to look back with revisionist history.
I don't remember one moment where I was like, such
a job. Yeah, would you do a reunion? I'm asking
(42:56):
the questions, what are you? What are you doing now?
I just feel like we're you picked up pencil, You're
like doodling. No, I just wanted I was thinking about
writing some questions down for you, and then I started
do doling my Um, what was your question? Would you
want to do a reunion or a show like a
reunion show? Yeah? I don't know that you want to
be on a reboot, right? I think that I think
(43:20):
with the right idea because clearly the show is bigger
now than it was. Sure, and that's all great. That's
again that's the that's the business side of it. I
think that for me, it's really simply down to wouldn't
that be fun? Like just throw an episode out there,
almost like they did the Christmas specials for the British one.
(43:42):
What I like about the idea is that it doesn't
have to be better or worse than any of the
episodes we've ever done. It would actually be cool to
just tell a story just like no stakes. Yeah, um,
thanks blood, You're welcome. Is it over? Yeah? I mean,
do you have anything else you want to say? I mean,
we feel like we covered a lot of topics, we
(44:03):
covered a lot of ground. I don't know what I said. Um, John,
I love you so much and I appreciate you coming
and talking to me. This is great. But also it's
just so good to see you. It's so good to
see you. I feel like I just went to a
therapy session. You did, you did great? Which you don't
cut yourself out of this, you you You'll get my bill. Um.
(44:27):
We still have headphones on, which allows me to do that.
I don't want to slip around. I don't want your
slipper I don't want to slipping around in my brain
or ear. Um are we done? Can I please get
him out of here? All right? Ali? Guys, dude, thank you,
(44:47):
welcome dude, Thank you John. Why do you always have
to ruin everything? Just the slippering? I'm just kidding. That
(45:09):
was incredible. Thank you so much for coming on the show,
and to all of my listeners, thank you for making
us a part of your day. Well, we'll be back
soon with another tantalizing conversation, big word and a very
(45:29):
big announcement. What could it be? But until then, make
sure to leave us a review and just you know,
have an amazing week for me. We'll see them the Office.
(45:53):
Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
Our producers for this episode are Liz Hayes, Emily Carr,
and Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
(46:13):
my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
by Seth Olandski
Host
Brian Baumgartner
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.