December 11, 2024 • 48 mins
If you want to know where S.E. will be on Thursday Dec. 12, look no further than the Bravo schedule and the debut of the new season of Southern Charm. Who better, then, to have on the show this week than Bravolebrity and friend, Shep Rose! The Southern Charm charmer talks about the upcoming season, dishes on some hot Bravo goss, and talks about what makes Southern Charm different from Bravo's slate of reality TV. S.E. also asks some tough questions about some public moments of debauchery and Shep's journey to confront the "wild animal" inside of him. Before the episode is up, Shep pretty much talks S.E. into going on her own Ayahuasca journey after going deep into his own life-changing experience.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're just like, oh my god, this is like a
Tarantino movie or a David Lynch movie, like something out
of a dream, like a fever dream.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Off the Cup. It's your mental health break
from the news. I'm Si Cup. I have had the
pleasure of meeting many Bravo lebrities over the past decade
or so. Some have even become real friends friends in
real life. One in particular, though, I'm just really grateful
for I feel like he and I would have been
(00:37):
friends had we met organically. We have a lot in common.
I think we think similarly. We're both into politics and
the news. I think we just get each other. And
my husband vibes with him. My kiddo likes him. He
crashes at my place sometimes when he's up in the Northeast.
He was the life of the party at my Christmas
(00:58):
party this year. But I'm you know, he's the life
of every party. It's my friend Southern Charms. William Shepherd
Rose the Third.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Hey, I see, how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I'm good. I just love seeing you. Are you good?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, I'm good. The feeling is mutual, definitely, And yeah,
I think you know, if we want to chart this
back to its inception. We yeah, you're a Bravo fanatic, right, yes, essentially,
and I mean even even acknowledged as much by the
(01:30):
great Andy Cohen.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So, I don't know how we maybe we said hello
on Twitter again we did, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Because you're also you're a fan of the news.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I am.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I grew up in an interesting political household, considering my
grandfather was a Democrat.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I was a Southern Democrat.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Not to be confused with a Dixie krat, which is
a little nefarious or something. I don't even know, have
to go back and look it up. But yeah, he
was just a guy who was and then he was
He went to Yale Law School, was in World War
Two in the Navy, my grandfather great great man, and
then he was He was a Supreme Court clerk, Justice's clerk,
(02:16):
and then became a lawyer in Birmingham, Alabama. He went
back to wear it All where he was born in Selma.
And years after that, when Jimmy Carter was president, he
appointed my grandfather as a federal judge, so I had that.
I listened at the feet of him. But then my
dad was very much a Republican. He was in the
(02:37):
Reagan administration and the Tax Division under Edwin Meese. And
so I would listen to them very respectfully, let me
underline and highlight, respectfully debate about the issues and socially
and economically. And I was at the feet of that,
and so I was interested, and of course I sided
(02:59):
with my dad. Well, first of all, he's a tax attorney,
so he has every reason to be a Republican, especially
when they were actually fiscally conservative.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I remember that time.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, good times.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, right and now and so, but then things kind
of shifted. If we want to just get right into politics, now, well, this.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Is not a place where we talk about politics, Okay,
we can talk about how you got interested.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So I have that both
sides of the coin in me somehow.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And I sort of started to shift once the evangelical
movement started to take shape, and I was like, I
don't agree with these people and on so many different topics.
So I'm willing to pay a little more taxes to
feel good about about the things that I believe in. Yeah,
And that's a very broad way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But I think that like this is where we connect,
because you know, you're smart, you're well read, you come
at this with a lot of knowledge, but you're also
very open minded, and you're not stuck in a place,
in a box that your family's told you to be in,
or your geography has told you to be in, or
you know, you're very sort of open minded. And I've
(04:13):
I've tried to be that way myself, you know, coming
up through politics. So I think that's where we kind
of just we just vibed, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, we sat and we had you showed me CNN
and we we had a couple of drinks and yeah,
we talked and talked and talked.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And uh yeah, Yeah. It was just like it was
like an old friend basically.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe it. Sometimes you
meet someone and you're like, oh, we've been friends forever. Yeah,
then later you met my husband, and you guys have
a lot of like hunting, fishing in common. We'll get
into that, but but yeah, it just fit. It just
felt like we were meant to be friends.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, And it didn't matter that did Our sort of
opinions on things actually were overlapped quite a bit, but
that didn't hurt either.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, No, exactly and okay, so there's a lot I
want to talk to you about today, but can we
just start off easy with some hot Bravo gos?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Go ahead?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay. For folks who don't know, Shepp is on a
show called Southern Charm, which follows a group of young,
youngsh now Southerners and their exploits around Charleston. It's great.
It's one of the Bravo shows that I think guys
can get into too, you know, maybe maybe unlike the Housewives.
So you know, my husband watches it. You know a
lot of guys that watch it. Are you filming a
(05:25):
new season now or did you? Did you wrap filming?
We've wrapped in Okay, by all accounts, it'll be out
in the winter time. I know you can't give away anything,
but what, like, just generally, what are we in for
this upcoming season?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A completely different season?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I mean, oh, there's not everyone's here's the thing, like,
there's there is undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
For example, last season there was that there was a
smoking gun, right, and that was the Austin and Taylor thing.
And boy, I think everyone even down to the executives,
were fatigued by the whole thing, right.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, because it was for people who don't know. It
was this circular story that never resolved. It just had
going over and over it. Did you do it? Did
you not do it? Did you do it? Did you
not do it?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, And that was And you know, it's funny because
Scandival or whatever had happened and people are like, oh,
you're copying that. I was like, No, that happened before
Scandaval ever was a thing.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Like that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
We filmed in the fall, and I think scandabal thing
came out in the winter, So it just so happens.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You had to wait and to see what was happening
in our world.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, I don't know what.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I don't watch fander Pump. I like many of those people,
and I respect what they've done. Totally different animal, totally
different and like totally different personalities and the way they
deal with things is different. And that's another thing about
Southern charm because and sometimes you have to push back
because you know you're saying to yourself, wait a second,
(06:57):
it's in the title of the show Southern. Think about
Southern that's genteel and not exactly aggressive. It's sort of
crazy like a fox, sort of thing. You know, you're
not overt, you're not confrontational. That's that's against what we
do in the.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Stuff, unless you're Madison.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
But yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You're conal.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
No.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
And another person I want to bring up Catherine Dennis.
She was an original cast member who survived a number
of scandals and is no longer on the show. She's
had a rough few months in real life. Any word
on how she is doing following several literal run ins
between her car and the law.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah. Yeah, I send her a message in the vein
of you know, it's always dark as for the Dawn,
which is a silly platitude, but it's good to hear
from people sometimes. And then I said to her, actually,
and we can talk about this later.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I went and did Iahwuasca last January.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh, we're talking about it, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And so I became friends with the guy who started
it and the whole staff there. We stay in touch
and he mess the founder and the guy runs it
reached out and was like, do you think your friend
Catherine might be interested? And I never heard back from
Catherine after the how are you? Which was fine. I'm
not offended by that at all, understand and I texted her.
(08:21):
She got right back to me. It was like, I
actually am interested in and I was like, well it
helped me a lot, and I think and she and
so I put her in touch with him.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And that's the last I've heard of it.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay, but interesting ayahuasca evangelist Shep Rose, Oh.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
God, it's evangelists. Please, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, we're going to talk about that because I you've
been meaning to tell me about that for a month,
like since Christmas, and so I will hear the story
in real time. But before we do that, just a
couple more Bravo issues we have to cover. Craig conover
another og. He's made a big and pillows all things.
What's Craig up to these days?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
We just we've been talking this week.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Craig is like a pretty involved with the stock market
these days.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I like he's I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Of course, of course he's opened He's opened a store
in Nashville, a sewing down South store good which is
a risk and he and you know, I'm hoping it
pays off for his manager. We share a manager shout
out to Jerry. So we're close. Craig and I. I mean,
we will never see the world the same way. There's
(09:35):
just no way. We are like two different people to
the maximum.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, let me ask you a question. Are Panda's real?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I think? So?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay, So you'll never see the world the same way? No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Maybe that's that's the biggest illustration of our differences.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
That's it right there. Okay. And then Austin came onto
the show a little bit later. You've had sort of
an up and down love hate relationship. Are you guys
still friends now?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, we are. We talk you know, we took a
break after last season. Yeah, for you know, several months,
and it was hard because we talked like two three
times a day for a while there. Because Austin's a talker,
I'm a talker, and so we share a lot of
the same characteristics and there's a lot of the same
(10:21):
interest live music, things like that and just having fun.
I mean, and Craig. Craig shares a lot of it too.
We're an interesting trio, that's for sure. Yes, So Austin
has been actually a good friend of late, and we
as part of this season is trying as seeing if
(10:43):
we can repair some things and redefining relationships and expectations
and things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well good. I think people like to watch you guys
getting along.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, so it's different. There's no smoking gun, I would say,
you know, but it's real gross and that's great and mean,
let's be honest.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
We've done this for ten seasons. Ten seasons.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, you can't expect us to be the person we
were ten years ago, nor would any of anything work
that I would hope. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, well that's good. I'm looking forward to that. What
about do you and Taylor, which is the longest relationship
we've seen you in on the show? Do you guys?
Are you guys closer?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
No, she doesn't want that, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You know that's probably best for her.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I tend to agree. And she's seeing somebody.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Just because it seemed like she had she had some
trouble detaching and that, you know it, maybe that wasn't
good for her.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I get it, And you know, I don't have a
ton of relationship experience, like long term, serious relationship experience. Yeah,
but I've always had I've always just held a big
soft spot for anybody that I've been in love with,
and I would do anything and to make sure that
they were okay and happy. But I understand that not
(12:00):
everybody approaches that, even if they feel that, they don't
approach it the same way.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think that's what viewers love
about you. You're very loyal, you're a good friend, You're
very compassionate. They love you for your wit, your charm,
and your willingness to be yourself. And so you've had
a lot of great memorable moments on TV where I
think viewers were really like, you know, either fruiting you
on or just happy to watch you. But what is
(12:27):
it like also having moments like your worst moments aired
for the world to pick apart and feel like they
have a say in.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean it's it's painful because it happens twice.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, in real time, and then you have to watch it.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, exactly, So that sucks, but you just try to
limit that. But like at the same time, you know,
when you're filming, it's stressful, and so you sometimes blow
off steam and then that creates more stress. It's like
it can be a nasty little cycle, you know. But anyhow,
(13:09):
I look, I don't listen to chatter, I don't read
the comments oh good. Yeah, yeah, And I don't read
the blogs. I mean, I just don't. I'm off Twitter.
I just removed myself from that. I mean, we've done
ten years, ten seasons now. Like to get down in
(13:30):
the muck and the mire with someone who might even
be a fan, but they're they're trying to goed you
into a response like I won't play that game.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, what about I always think about this, not just
with you, but like with all you know a lot
of reality stars. What about like your parents, Like do
your parents talk to you after like, you know, scenes
where you've hooked up with a girl or you know,
broken up with a girl or gotten in a fight.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Do they you know, they watch only when I tell
I mean if I'm like, hey, you like this episode
because it's like fun.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
But I mean that's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
My good close friends and family at this point, they're like,
we get it, you know, congratulations on the news, but
like we don't need to stay up to date with
the whole crew, you know, so.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
If it makes you feel any better, My parents stopped
watching me on TV many many years ago too.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And by the way, I mean I couldn't get through
like I watched the first three seasons of Scandal, and
I loved it, and then I.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Was just like, Okay, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I can move on now. And like the same thing
with Dexter. I loved the first three or four seasons,
and then I was like, no more. So I get
a little taste of it, and then I appreciate it,
but I can I can move on comfortably.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I'm going to ask you this, you can give me
an honest answer. Can we talk about Vegas?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Okay, So last year we all went to Bravocan. You
were there as a star. I was there to interview y'all.
I did various panels. I brought my husband John. It
was huge, amazing, so much fun, and generally we had
a blast, you and I and my husband we did.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That was the one night where I was fine.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You were fine, but you were also. I mean, there
was a moment when I thought we were in the
casino where I thought you might get thrown out. But
it got it got, it got worse. Can you just
talk about that, yeah, because it's an important entry into
ayahuasca and everything else.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah. Man, I sort of trace it back to I
was after season nine wrapped, I traveled around Europe and
then spent the summer doing all these things in Alaska
and and all these fun exciting adventures and Argentina I
(16:09):
think I went, Remember I invited justin to Coome to Argentina.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yea, And all these things.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Are just like you know, just with the boys or
or you know, by myself and cruising around Europe. So
I get back to Charleston in the fall. I don't
know really what to do with myself.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Does that make sense? Like I'm like, oh, well, I'm.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Still on vacation, which you can trick yourself into doing.
I mean, look, we've got an interesting life, and we've
got a very lucky, fortunate life.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I do, and so do my co stars.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
We worked three four months a year, you know, intensely,
and then we have time off, and you know, if
you don't have a side project or you can fall
into the the trap of you know, to Martini lunch,
you know, what have you? And you know everybody wants
(17:02):
to hang out and.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Everyone wants to buy you drinks. I mean that's a
thing for you where you go places and everyone wants
to buy you drinks.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Take shots, take shots, correct, And so I went into
Bravo cons kind of like riding high.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I guess I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I mean, you know, I just thought that maybe this
was a party, a big giant party. Now, the one,
the one in New York a couple of years before.
Two years I loved those, by the way, like there's
no casino. Yeah, you're done with the thing and you
go out to a nice dinner and maybe go to
a bar after all.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Right, but this one, like the party was all night.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Las Vegas is a giant bar, you know, like it's
just crazy.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And I went into it the wrong approach.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And you know, you go to the Bravo Con and
everybody you go to the VIP section, Hey, have a margarita.
I'm like, well, it's nine thirty am. Well, and and
then by the time you're done, like you can make
it through the day. Great, everybody's wonderful and the fans
are great, and you take the thousands and thousands of pictures. Yeah,
(18:10):
and you make you put a smile on a lot
of people's faces.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
It's it's quite nice. Right.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Then you go back to the hotel and you've got
two three hours before you do Andy's show. Watch what happens,
which is a zoo anyways, and what do you do?
You know, you sit in your hotel room, you know
what I mean. So I just I hook line and
sink are like the dumbest fish in the ocean, you
know what I mean, Like and just wents for every
(18:38):
lure that I could find, and thought that I was
doing good work. You know. That tricked myself into thinking
I was doing really good things, which which I feel
like I will. I mean, I'm sure I made a
lot of people happy. But yeah, you know, is the
nighttime approached after these long days, then it's totally out
of your control, and that happens several nights and uh,
(19:01):
it sucked.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
It sucked, and you got in trouble.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well, no, I did a little.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I mean, honestly, it was more of the aftermath, like
there was like whispers, like there was nothing. There's no
smoking gun or glaring incident necessarily, right. It was just
like people being like getting back, like a couple of
people like Jesus, you know, it was up. And then
Andy called and was very nice and I was in
a little shame spiral at the time.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
What did he say?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
He just he basically said, you know, I want you
to be on this channel as long as you want.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
And if you.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You know, behave in such ways in front of these
eyeballs that are serious, important eyeballs, then you're You're not
You're not gonna be able to live life on your
terms as least as it pertains to this, you know,
to to Bravo TV.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So would you say, was it tough love or was
it like?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
No? It was no, it was you know, I said,
I know, I feel terrible.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
He goes, well, that's good to hear.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
He was glad that I was cognizant of the fact
that I that something had gone sideways, you know, and
some people could be in denial and stuff. I'm really
I'm a hard I'm a hard, harsh critic of myself,
no doubt.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And you're very self aware.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I try to be.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
We were hanging out, you and I the day after
you taped the reunion, yeah, and you told me what
you had just said to your castmates. You apologized, you
said some I thought really brave things. You got some
tough love back from your castmates. Was it hard to
be that vulnerable both to them and the cameras?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah? I was, I was, man. I thought about what
I wanted to say for weeks prior, because I wanted
it to mean something and to land correctly and emphatically,
but also to just be vulnerable too. I just thought
that was the best thing I could do in that moment.
(21:03):
There's a bit of holding myself accountable again, not to
be in denial and to shrug things off that that
you're not pleased about is not the way I want
to go through life. And and but boy are there's
there's a litany of things that I that that could
keep me up at night, just stupid things. So you
don't want to you don't hold on to it too long,
(21:23):
but you really really examine things, uh and incidents and
circumstances and and then you try to really apply some
lessons and move forward.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
All right, So tell me about ayahuasca.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So yeah, I was like kind of like, what should
I do? Like, you know, it's nice to get that
off my chest on national television.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, And but what should I do?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
And I started talking to some friends around Charleston, and
then this guy's like, you should talk to this guy, Kenny.
He's the next Navy seal and he did Iowa. He
does some alternative medicine stuff. And I was like, yeah,
I'd be happy to because my friend Bailey, he's been
on the show. She lived in Buenos Aires for a
long time and she's done it like seven times and
(22:11):
she always always.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Telling me we get so much out of it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And so I talked to Kenny and he was like,
he was like, have you heard of the Toad? I
was like, no, I have not heard of the toad?
And the toad is like He's like, well, I don't
think you should do it because it's not first he
was like, you know, you should maybe like start with
ayahuasca and then but the toad is something crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
You should look it up.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
No, this is the licking toad's thing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Well, you smoke it, but it's off of toad's back
or something.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
No, I'll tell you who told me to do this.
You won't believe this.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Who.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Rick Perry, former governor of Texas.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, wow, called.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Me when I first opened up about my mental health challenges.
He called me directly and said, Essie, I got something
for you. I take all my guys from like with
PTSD from the military, I take them all down to
Mexico and we do this toad thing and it changes
their lives. Yeah, I didn't do it, but I really
appreciated his outreach.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah that's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So so he was like, yeah, try this place and
called Ridmia and so I went, all right, I called
out there. It's in Costa Rica, Okay, And so I
get there. I'm writing a book about this, by the way,
about my whole experience. It was so crazy and so interesting.
And so we're not in Kansas anymore, and first day
(23:34):
of camp for school or what have you. It was
a bunch of people thrown together about to embark on
this crazily spiritual journey and nobody knows what to expect,
and everybody's gingerly shaking each other's hand and it's just
like and you know, it was just outrageously interesting. And
I just started writing as soon as I landed at
(23:56):
the airport and got on this bus with some of
my my new friends and fellow participants. Yeah, and just
was listening to all the conversations, partaking in many of
them as well. And uh just was my percolating with
with some I don't know creativity and uh so yeah,
I mean I don't I don't know how bogged down
(24:17):
you want to get into it, but.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Oh, I want to get into it, like what did
you hope to get out of it? And what did
what did what did it feel like when you were
on it, and what happened after?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Right right? Well, one of the things they say is
you might think you know why you're here or why
you want to be here, but you you there's very,
very possible you'll leave with something completely different than what
you thought you were trying to go there for.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You know, Hey, I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, but I was there. Well, part of the reason
I was there. Most of the reason was just like
sort of confront the uh the wild animal inside me
or whatever, the the guy that takes it too far,
the guy that you know, three isn't enough, I need
six kind of thing, you know what I mean. And
so I did confront that guy, and uh I pretty
(25:07):
successfully and pretty Oh I got vividly. I mean I
could go into it. I mean some of the visions
I had were just absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Do you have visions of yourself or you have visions
of other things?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, I mean I had. Well I don't want to
spoil the.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Book, Okay, yeah, you don't have to get like, but
just gives me the general idea here.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, so they asked you all these different question you're
supposed to ask the medicine a question that the medicine
is called mother ayahuasca, and it's like a female and
she is in charge and she permeates throughout the room
and and you're supposed to ask her questions. Uh, and
then try to be as specific as you as you can.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Like a board kind of.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And so you know, the first night is who have
I become? Is the question you're supposed to ask. Now,
you can ask any question you want, but they have
a little roadmap for it. It's a very slick, very
well done operation. It's like they've thought of everything. And
the accommodations are nice and the food is good, you know.
So it's a very lovely environment that they create. It's
(26:14):
very wellness and you know they you don't have to
but they you know, you do breathing exercises and a
little bit of yoga, so they kind of get you
in the mood. And then and then everybody sort of everybody,
because it's such a outlandish experience, is lets their guard
down and uh, and you and people are really honest
(26:35):
with one another. So it was really great, and I
mean so yeah, I mean I'll just tell you, like
the first night I'm going through it, man, Like the
way I see it is mother Ayahuasca enters like you yawn.
I don't know if you've eaten mushrooms before of it,
(26:57):
you know they're working when you yawn really deeply, is
like I don't know why it's okay. So that that
that happens in my theory is that mother Ayawaska enters
enters your body when you yawn okay, and then untangles
all these knots and webs insides you, whether it be
ego or past trauma, and then you're literally writhing on
(27:21):
the ground like ah, like you remember the matrix where
the guy she jumped jumps into the agent.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
And yeah, all this stuff that's how it feels.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You're like, ah, is it painful?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
No, no, nothing, but it's just it's just intense and yeah,
but it's and then you you know, you purge, and
this is my theory.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
This there's no basis of fact here.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
You purge, whether it's go to the bathroom or throw
up in their bucket next year's mattress. And then it's
sort of over that that section is over. Whatever you
dealt with is dealt with, and maybe you can revisit it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
But does everyone purge.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I don't know, no, not everybody, some more than others.
There's some guys next to me. I thought their guts
were turned inside out. But but you can get up
and walk around. You don't have to stay in the
in the enclosed, beautiful enclosed area by the way, and
the shaman was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
There's four different ones each night, and.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
They had a band with them, like bongos and guitar
and flute like a like a made out of bamboo,
and a singer singing these beautiful Spanish lullabies. There's a
bonfire and you're just like, oh my god, this is
like a Tarantino movie or a David Lynch movie, like
(28:40):
something out of a dream, like a fever dream. And
meanwhile you're just like, right, you're like either coming to
some aha conclusion or you're dealing with something that's inside you.
And all this stuff, and I mean, I'll just give
you one example. The first night, I envisioned a amusement
(29:04):
park ride where there's the pole and all the and
then there's all the swings hanging down from the pole,
and then it goes around and round, and the swings.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Go out and out, you know, ye ye yep.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Well in the swings where all the people that I
knew and loved and they're laughing and carrying on. And
I was like, oh, that's nice. And then I look
up and I'm the pole.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I'm the one. I'm the one that has to be sturdy.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I have to be reliable, or the amusement park life
that I so desire.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Trumbles and is a disaster.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
And then I was like, oh my god, it's so
cool and so vivid and so vivid.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, and once it's over, these things stay with you.
It's not like a dream where you like forget it.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I wrote, I wrote down everything. You should see my journal.
It's hilarious. It's like it's like diagonal vertical, like I
write because you can't see that well A and B
like you can't write, you're like out of your mind
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
But I got a lot from my journal. It's sitting
over here.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
I've already written twenty five thousand words. I've got probably
another fifteen twenty to go before it's a book.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, and I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
But my biggest takeaway, not personally, just overall in the
world takeaway is I see there is so much trauma
and pain in the world, so much and anybody you
walk past you have no idea what they're going through.
Anybody literally, you know, the guy raking the lawn, the
(30:42):
guy behind the camera at CNN, Like, everyone has a
story and it's and some of them are very sad.
And so I think the biggest thing for Ayahuasca, I
don't have much trauma. I'm really really blessed to not.
I mean, childhood was idyllic. I was in toldon had Island,
(31:04):
ride my mountain bike around, playing basketball, and my brother
and sister were both were happy, and yeah, everyone was great.
That part I actually brought me to tears at the
end of the whole process because just so much gratitude
because of all these wonderful memories and all this love
and care that I've been provided and support. But boy,
(31:28):
I heard stories there that you couldn't write in a script.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
No one would believe it.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
But and that's how beautiful it was, meaning beautiful in
the fact that people were just shared they were there
to share it, and they were there to tell them
what they would tell you what they were going through.
And I had grown men cry in my arms at
lunch the next day, wow, talking about how terrible their
father was or something like that.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
And I mean some tough guys too.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I mean I met some really cool guys there too,
Navy seal who I became buddies with, and another like
a jiu jitsu champion, and so I met all these
great people. But my takeaway was gratitude and realizing how
much people struggle out there.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
But I think.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Ayahuasco really really unlocks your ability to.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Appease the trauma. I really do.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
A lot of people talked about spending times with dead
relatives wow, or with transgressors of their youth, whatever that
may be.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And because if you hold on to.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
That, I don't know firsthand, but if you hold on
to that, that can really ruin everything. Right.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, And in my therapy, I've learned you know that
you could be holding on to some traumas that you
didn't identify as traumas or because they didn't seem big.
You know, they didn't seem impactful, but they are in
ways that really imprint on your life. And if you
don't do the work of sort of packing that. In
(33:01):
my case it led to an extreme anxiety disorder and
a nervous breakdown. But I mean, it can just lead
to so many things. You know, you pass it on generationally.
So doing the work on yourself, learning what might have
been a past trauma or or what you were reacting
to in your life, you know, things you didn't realize
(33:22):
you were constantly reacting to. It's just really helpful. I
would encourage everyone to get, you know, therapy or do
something like you're describing to just know yourself better.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because Craig, you know, in
the reunion and even even in this upcoming season, he's like,
is it possible that some of your behavior is do
to the post you know Taylor breakup, like or and
the and you know, the Austin Taylor thing last year.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
It's entirely possible, that's true, But I just don't think
about it that way, you know what I mean, right, And.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So you're right, You're right, it's not it's not redline
every time you know, you don't have to be abused.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
It can be something completely else totally.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Do you feel different now, Like is it a before
and after.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
You have to do the work, like you said, And
I'm the first to admit it. I'm going to write
a PostScript or a chapter at the end with saying
I came back and I had all these lovely feelings
and thoughts, and I reverted a handful of times back
to exactly why I went there, like what are you doing?
But I talked to some like my navy seal friend
(34:32):
I was there was after, you know, just actually like
you know, after a night that I was just like,
what happened, you know? And I mean I was fine,
everybody's fine, nobody got hurt. But I was like, that's
not what we're trying to do anymore, dude, And he goes, shah,
you think you can change overnight, you think you're.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
A different person.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
No, No, All habits die hard, and you know, certain
friendships that you have to sort of draw new bounce
with friendships too, And so that's something that takes time
and it takes mistakes. So it's not like a magic pill.
It's not an elixir, you know. And I learned that
(35:14):
a little bit the hard way, and I'm still learning.
I'm still learning about it, but I have it in
me and maybe I'll go back. I mean, there's other
stuff I'd like to try, but I mean this this
is I Okaine, I had, I had, I know, and
there's something else it's like kind of more intense, and
I invite everyone to at least think about it. Yeah,
they say, the worst thing that can happen to you
(35:36):
is nothing, like you come to no conclusions and you
don't see anything, even the worst episodes on a particular
night where you know one woman, I should say, this
is a book, but fuck it, I'll tell you because
I love you. On the first night, I was in
there on that pamock outside staring at the Big Dipper
(35:58):
and the galaxy, and this woman was going berserk. They
moved her outside and put her on a mattress outside
just just like she was being absolute torn apart by wolves.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
And I was just like, ugh, this staff was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
The staff was there for her. They were saying, breathe
and you know, it's okay, You're gonna be fine, and
then she would start laughing maniacally. I was like whoa,
And I just got up and left because like it
was like not where.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I didn't need to be around that, and I think
everybody else did. Just give her space.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
And the next day I went and found her and
was like, hey, how are you, And she's like, I'm
actually really good. And I was like, oh god, well
it didn't sound like you last night. She's like yeah, well,
And I was like, do you want sharing with me?
And she said, yeah, yeah, of course I will. She's like,
my mother committed suicide when I was twelve years old
and I was with her last night.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
So I was like, oh man, how powerful is that?
Speaker 4 (37:00):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So, however painful it might be when you're on the medicine,
it's so therapeutic, I think. And uh, all these people
just like really coming to terms with a lot of
serious personal things, including myself.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Including myself.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
But I mean, this plant based stuff has been going
on for thousands and thousands of years. This isn't like nothing.
I mean that it should be explored and studied. And
I mean it's from a root and a leaf in
the Amazons.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
So oh, you're definitely getting me to think about it
for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Oh my god, you would get so much out of it.
I really believe that.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I want to switch gears just a little bit. Why
why are people obsessed with you settling down. I don't know, right, Like,
why is that? I think you just know who you
are and it's not that you're like avoiding marriage. It's
that I think you think you won't be good at it,
and that's actually very self aware and responsible.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Yeah, it's funny, man.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I don't think I would do toddlers that well, but
I know it once they walk and talk and their personality,
I would thrive.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
I would love that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I'm glad you said that because let me tell you,
I've told you this, but listeners, how great you would be.
Because that same day after the reunion we were talking,
right before you came, you came over to my house
for the Christmas party's kaplan. Yeah right, I was going
(38:48):
through something scary with my kiddo and I shared that
he was having some challenges at that time, and you
said something so great to me. You said, well, all
that means is he's going to get that awesome opportunity
to overcome those challenges and think about how amazing he'll
be because of that. And it was just such a
(39:11):
great perspective and it meant a lot to me. But
that you said that like instinctively, and I think if
you wanted to, I think you'd be a great dad.
Now that doesn't mean you have to be, but I
think you're just your perspective, Yeah, would make you a
great dad.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I love Kay. I'm a child, you know, and I
know how to talk to them. I like talking to
them and hearing what they have to say. And yeah,
I would love that. It would be so rewarding in
so many ways. So I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking
about it a lot. And I'm forty four, about to
turn forty five, and yeah, I'm accepting all applications.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Kidding, just you know, double spaced outline.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
For well, speaking of you shot a reality show, a
dating show called Relationship, did you enjoy that?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I wanted it to be different, I'll say.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
That, like from a production standpoint.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yeah, basically what I wanted it to be SI was.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
To show a debutante from Dallas is not like a
beach bum from San Diego, which isn't like a aspiring
actors from la which isn't like a tech girl from
San Francisco who isn't like a hipster from Portland, who
isn't like a farmer's daughter from Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, I kind of wanted.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
It to be like a fun like where in the
world is shep and go out on dates, you know,
and we're going to examine the local culture and maybe
even on each date, dress like how I think the
person would dress in that city, you know, like a
Dan Dana Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
You know, a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
And I know that sounds silly, of course I'm silly
at my heart at heart, but no, I like, well,
it's very expensive apparently to go from Cities city with
all the all the cameras and the crew and stuff.
So I was pie in the sky. Yeah, I guess
by like one thing and is that. Yeah, I won't
(41:12):
get into I'm not going to criticize it. I had
a lot of fun doing it. It was way different
than Southern Charm and the fact that it was just me.
If I was having a bad day, I couldn't sit
in the corner. Not that I usually do or ever do, really,
but if you're in an ensemble scene in Southern Charm
and you're just like you don't have there's not a
lot of pressure. You know, you can pick your spots.
(41:34):
But yeah, all of it was on me, and that's cool.
But let's think about this the girls that were I
was dating with have never really been on TV, so
I had to lift. I had to do what I
could to make it the most entertaining thing.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
So I'm proud of that. I really am.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
My improv skills I guess you would call it or
ad lib abilities.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
And producer skills. I mean that's a producer hat that
you were wearing to try and make it TV. Yeah,
I was so.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, I'm proud of it. I don't know, I you know,
is it a little frustrating that everybody was in a
house together, like like you know what show? Yes, it was,
it was a little it kind of watered down everything
in my opinion, Right, I get.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
It, I get it, all right. I want to do
now lightning round before we say goodbye? All right, what's
the best sports movie?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Bull Durham?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I knew because we are such were romantics and we're
you know, intellectuals a bit, I knew you were going
to say that. And that's mine too. I just knew it.
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
There's so many though. All the football ones are pretty bad.
The longest yard is good, I mean that's old. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Burt Reynolds does mash.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Count Remember the Mash the movie where they played football.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Now, yeah, I love Mash. Finally, it's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
But that's not that doesn't count as a sports movie.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
What are some other ones? Just?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
What's the other Kevin Costner one? And I'm not thinking
of Field.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Of Dreams for Lover Money.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Kevin.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Kevin Costner has his own genre of sports movies. He's
got about Jerry Maguire is a good one. I like Rudy.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah, there a miracle?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah okay. Next question, who would you bring back if
you could bring anyone back to Southern charm?
Speaker 1 (43:37):
I mean Cameron of course.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah. Are you guys still good friends?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, we are, she messaged me this morning if.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
The show ended tomorrow. Who would you still be very
good friends with?
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Whitney? Okay?
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Could you ever live in the North, I mean the
North of America above the Mason Dixon Line.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yes, I could, I really, I'm just I'm looking, but
I'd rather live in the in the Rockies.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Okay, so not the not the Northeast, yes, yes, all right.
You can only choose one. Pheasant hunt or deep sea
fishing charter pheasant.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Okay, fly fishing in Alaska pheasant hunt fly fishing in Alaska.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Oh, and that's an important distinction.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, okay, or part of the Bahamas or something like that.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
I mean, salmon fishing in Alaska is like one of
my all time favorite things to do. It is, so
it's like spiritual. I love it. Okay. Lastly, this is
the question we always ask, and it's very important to
me personally, culturally, spiritually. When is iced coffee season?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I don't drink ice coffee. I had, I just don't.
I like hot coffee.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I like my coffee hot.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
So for you, iced coffee season is never maybe July
and August. Okay, that's an incorrect answer. It's your round,
it's your round. But that's okay. This is this is
really the only area and where we differ.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
But that's right. I think I can handle that.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
All right.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, what I was about to tell you is that
you know, we tried. We did our test run on
on doing this. We knew yeah, yes, doing a podcast
and whatever. You know, we by no fault of either
of us. Nothing came of it. But uh so, Whitney
and I have have started our in the gestation stages
(45:30):
of doing something together. So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
And good that Whitney Southerlersmith, who is a producer and
sort of creator creator of the show and also was
on the show for some seasons.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna do like a different podcast,
like on location somewhere like maybe in Europe, like bouncing
around the cities and just do things. And we're gonna
do on camera too. So it's gonna be like a
podcast on camera. But also so so some of us
sitting down, but a lot of us moving around and
talking and meeting people. So I love that it could
(46:06):
be something different. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
That's great. And you should be on the road. You
both of you are childless men who of means, who
can travel to incredible places, and that's one hundred percent
what you should be doing.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
And we should and we thrive in these places and
then percolate creatively creatively. Yes, so yeah, I'm excited about
And you mentioned Cameron. Yeah, this is just an idea,
but Cameron, I think is on board. Cameron and I
are obsessed with Bigfoot, So oh my god, you should
come down. We're gonna go to the big Foot Festival
(46:44):
and on camera. Do you want to do you want
to join us.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Okay, we're going to do it.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
So when I when I had to show at MSNBC,
I had I had squatch watchers come on and and
talk about like finding Bigfoot and doing squatch calls. No,
I'm about love.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
I love it. Okay, all right, I think it's happening.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
All right, thank you so much, shep Rose. Friend reality star,
but really like member of the family at this point,
I just appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Thank you. See take care.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Coming up next week on Off the Cup, I get
to talk to Huey Lewis. It doesn't get any better.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
I called all the boys in the band and we
all went came to my place and we sat there
and watched the radio like you used to do in
the thirties, you know. And I'm watching the radio and
now they say, okay, here's a new band from Marin
County and blah blah blah. Do you believe lovers Huey
Lewis the news and they play the record and I could.
I thought two things and I'll never forget it. One,
(47:43):
I thought, Wow, it's going to be a hit at
number two, I thought, and it doesn't sound anything like us.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the recent Choice Network. I'm your HOSTESSIO editing
and sound designed by Dirk Clements. Our executive producers are
me Si Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If you
like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever you
get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
You're just like, oh my god, this is like a
Tarantino movie or a David Lynch movie, like something out
of a dream, like a fever dream.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Off the Cup. It's your mental health break
from the news. I'm Si Cup. I have had the
pleasure of meeting many Bravo lebrities over the past decade
or so. Some have even become real friends friends in
real life. One in particular, though, I'm just really grateful
for I feel like he and I would have been
(00:37):
friends had we met organically. We have a lot in common.
I think we think similarly. We're both into politics and
the news. I think we just get each other. And
my husband vibes with him. My kiddo likes him. He
crashes at my place sometimes when he's up in the Northeast.
He was the life of the party at my Christmas
(00:58):
party this year. But I'm you know, he's the life
of every party. It's my friend Southern Charms. William Shepherd
Rose the Third.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Hey, I see, how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I'm good. I just love seeing you. Are you good?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, yeah, I'm good. The feeling is mutual, definitely, And yeah,
I think you know, if we want to chart this
back to its inception. We yeah, you're a Bravo fanatic, right, yes, essentially,
and I mean even even acknowledged as much by the
(01:30):
great Andy Cohen.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So, I don't know how we maybe we said hello
on Twitter again we did, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Because you're also you're a fan of the news.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I am.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I grew up in an interesting political household, considering my
grandfather was a Democrat.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I was a Southern Democrat.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Not to be confused with a Dixie krat, which is
a little nefarious or something. I don't even know, have
to go back and look it up. But yeah, he
was just a guy who was and then he was
He went to Yale Law School, was in World War
Two in the Navy, my grandfather great great man, and
then he was He was a Supreme Court clerk, Justice's clerk,
(02:16):
and then became a lawyer in Birmingham, Alabama. He went
back to wear it All where he was born in Selma.
And years after that, when Jimmy Carter was president, he
appointed my grandfather as a federal judge, so I had that.
I listened at the feet of him. But then my
dad was very much a Republican. He was in the
(02:37):
Reagan administration and the Tax Division under Edwin Meese. And
so I would listen to them very respectfully, let me
underline and highlight, respectfully debate about the issues and socially
and economically. And I was at the feet of that,
and so I was interested, and of course I sided
(02:59):
with my dad. Well, first of all, he's a tax attorney,
so he has every reason to be a Republican, especially
when they were actually fiscally conservative.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I remember that time.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, good times.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, right and now and so, but then things kind
of shifted. If we want to just get right into politics, now, well, this.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Is not a place where we talk about politics, Okay,
we can talk about how you got interested.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So I have that both
sides of the coin in me somehow.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And I sort of started to shift once the evangelical
movement started to take shape, and I was like, I
don't agree with these people and on so many different topics.
So I'm willing to pay a little more taxes to
feel good about about the things that I believe in. Yeah,
And that's a very broad way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But I think that like this is where we connect,
because you know, you're smart, you're well read, you come
at this with a lot of knowledge, but you're also
very open minded, and you're not stuck in a place,
in a box that your family's told you to be in,
or your geography has told you to be in, or
you know, you're very sort of open minded. And I've
(04:13):
I've tried to be that way myself, you know, coming
up through politics. So I think that's where we kind
of just we just vibed, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, we sat and we had you showed me CNN
and we we had a couple of drinks and yeah,
we talked and talked and talked.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And uh yeah, Yeah. It was just like it was
like an old friend basically.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe it. Sometimes you
meet someone and you're like, oh, we've been friends forever. Yeah,
then later you met my husband, and you guys have
a lot of like hunting, fishing in common. We'll get
into that, but but yeah, it just fit. It just
felt like we were meant to be friends.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, And it didn't matter that did Our sort of
opinions on things actually were overlapped quite a bit, but
that didn't hurt either.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, No, exactly and okay, so there's a lot I
want to talk to you about today, but can we
just start off easy with some hot Bravo gos?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Go ahead?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay. For folks who don't know, Shepp is on a
show called Southern Charm, which follows a group of young,
youngsh now Southerners and their exploits around Charleston. It's great.
It's one of the Bravo shows that I think guys
can get into too, you know, maybe maybe unlike the Housewives.
So you know, my husband watches it. You know a
lot of guys that watch it. Are you filming a
(05:25):
new season now or did you? Did you wrap filming?
We've wrapped in Okay, by all accounts, it'll be out
in the winter time. I know you can't give away anything,
but what, like, just generally, what are we in for
this upcoming season?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A completely different season?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I mean, oh, there's not everyone's here's the thing, like,
there's there is undoubtedly.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
For example, last season there was that there was a
smoking gun, right, and that was the Austin and Taylor thing.
And boy, I think everyone even down to the executives,
were fatigued by the whole thing, right.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, because it was for people who don't know. It
was this circular story that never resolved. It just had
going over and over it. Did you do it? Did
you not do it? Did you do it? Did you
not do it?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, And that was And you know, it's funny because
Scandival or whatever had happened and people are like, oh,
you're copying that. I was like, No, that happened before
Scandaval ever was a thing.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Like that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
We filmed in the fall, and I think scandabal thing
came out in the winter, So it just so happens.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You had to wait and to see what was happening
in our world.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, I don't know what.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I don't watch fander Pump. I like many of those people,
and I respect what they've done. Totally different animal, totally
different and like totally different personalities and the way they
deal with things is different. And that's another thing about
Southern charm because and sometimes you have to push back
because you know you're saying to yourself, wait a second,
(06:57):
it's in the title of the show Southern. Think about
Southern that's genteel and not exactly aggressive. It's sort of
crazy like a fox, sort of thing. You know, you're
not overt, you're not confrontational. That's that's against what we
do in the.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Stuff, unless you're Madison.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
But yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You're conal.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
No.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
And another person I want to bring up Catherine Dennis.
She was an original cast member who survived a number
of scandals and is no longer on the show. She's
had a rough few months in real life. Any word
on how she is doing following several literal run ins
between her car and the law.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah. Yeah, I send her a message in the vein
of you know, it's always dark as for the Dawn,
which is a silly platitude, but it's good to hear
from people sometimes. And then I said to her, actually,
and we can talk about this later.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I went and did Iahwuasca last January.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Oh, we're talking about it, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And so I became friends with the guy who started
it and the whole staff there. We stay in touch
and he mess the founder and the guy runs it
reached out and was like, do you think your friend
Catherine might be interested? And I never heard back from
Catherine after the how are you? Which was fine. I'm
not offended by that at all, understand and I texted her.
(08:21):
She got right back to me. It was like, I
actually am interested in and I was like, well it
helped me a lot, and I think and she and
so I put her in touch with him.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And that's the last I've heard of it.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay, but interesting ayahuasca evangelist Shep Rose, Oh.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
God, it's evangelists. Please, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, we're going to talk about that because I you've
been meaning to tell me about that for a month,
like since Christmas, and so I will hear the story
in real time. But before we do that, just a
couple more Bravo issues we have to cover. Craig conover
another og. He's made a big and pillows all things.
What's Craig up to these days?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
We just we've been talking this week.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Craig is like a pretty involved with the stock market
these days.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I like he's I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Of course, of course he's opened He's opened a store
in Nashville, a sewing down South store good which is
a risk and he and you know, I'm hoping it
pays off for his manager. We share a manager shout
out to Jerry. So we're close. Craig and I. I mean,
we will never see the world the same way. There's
(09:35):
just no way. We are like two different people to
the maximum.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, let me ask you a question. Are Panda's real?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I think? So?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay, So you'll never see the world the same way? No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Maybe that's that's the biggest illustration of our differences.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
That's it right there. Okay. And then Austin came onto
the show a little bit later. You've had sort of
an up and down love hate relationship. Are you guys
still friends now?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, we are. We talk you know, we took a
break after last season. Yeah, for you know, several months,
and it was hard because we talked like two three
times a day for a while there. Because Austin's a talker,
I'm a talker, and so we share a lot of
the same characteristics and there's a lot of the same
(10:21):
interest live music, things like that and just having fun.
I mean, and Craig. Craig shares a lot of it too.
We're an interesting trio, that's for sure. Yes, So Austin
has been actually a good friend of late, and we
as part of this season is trying as seeing if
(10:43):
we can repair some things and redefining relationships and expectations
and things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well good. I think people like to watch you guys
getting along.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, so it's different. There's no smoking gun, I would say,
you know, but it's real gross and that's great and mean,
let's be honest.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
We've done this for ten seasons. Ten seasons.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, you can't expect us to be the person we
were ten years ago, nor would any of anything work
that I would hope. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, well that's good. I'm looking forward to that. What
about do you and Taylor, which is the longest relationship
we've seen you in on the show? Do you guys?
Are you guys closer?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
No?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
No, she doesn't want that, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You know that's probably best for her.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I tend to agree. And she's seeing somebody.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Just because it seemed like she had she had some
trouble detaching and that, you know it, maybe that wasn't
good for her.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I get it, And you know, I don't have a
ton of relationship experience, like long term, serious relationship experience. Yeah,
but I've always had I've always just held a big
soft spot for anybody that I've been in love with,
and I would do anything and to make sure that
they were okay and happy. But I understand that not
(12:00):
everybody approaches that, even if they feel that, they don't
approach it the same way.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think that's what viewers love
about you. You're very loyal, you're a good friend, You're
very compassionate. They love you for your wit, your charm,
and your willingness to be yourself. And so you've had
a lot of great memorable moments on TV where I
think viewers were really like, you know, either fruiting you
on or just happy to watch you. But what is
(12:27):
it like also having moments like your worst moments aired
for the world to pick apart and feel like they
have a say in.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean it's it's painful because it happens twice.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, in real time, and then you have to watch it.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, exactly, So that sucks, but you just try to
limit that. But like at the same time, you know,
when you're filming, it's stressful, and so you sometimes blow
off steam and then that creates more stress. It's like
it can be a nasty little cycle, you know. But anyhow,
(13:09):
I look, I don't listen to chatter, I don't read
the comments oh good. Yeah, yeah, And I don't read
the blogs. I mean, I just don't. I'm off Twitter.
I just removed myself from that. I mean, we've done
ten years, ten seasons now. Like to get down in
(13:30):
the muck and the mire with someone who might even
be a fan, but they're they're trying to goed you
into a response like I won't play that game.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, what about I always think about this, not just
with you, but like with all you know a lot
of reality stars. What about like your parents, Like do
your parents talk to you after like, you know, scenes
where you've hooked up with a girl or you know,
broken up with a girl or gotten in a fight.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Do they you know, they watch only when I tell
I mean if I'm like, hey, you like this episode
because it's like fun.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
But I mean that's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
My good close friends and family at this point, they're like,
we get it, you know, congratulations on the news, but
like we don't need to stay up to date with
the whole crew, you know, so.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
If it makes you feel any better, My parents stopped
watching me on TV many many years ago too.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And by the way, I mean I couldn't get through
like I watched the first three seasons of Scandal, and
I loved it, and then I.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Was just like, Okay, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I can move on now. And like the same thing
with Dexter. I loved the first three or four seasons,
and then I was like, no more. So I get
a little taste of it, and then I appreciate it,
but I can I can move on comfortably.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I'm going to ask you this, you can give me
an honest answer. Can we talk about Vegas?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Okay, So last year we all went to Bravocan. You
were there as a star. I was there to interview y'all.
I did various panels. I brought my husband John. It
was huge, amazing, so much fun, and generally we had
a blast, you and I and my husband we did.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That was the one night where I was fine.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You were fine, but you were also. I mean, there
was a moment when I thought we were in the
casino where I thought you might get thrown out. But
it got it got, it got worse. Can you just
talk about that, yeah, because it's an important entry into
ayahuasca and everything else.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah. Man, I sort of trace it back to I
was after season nine wrapped, I traveled around Europe and
then spent the summer doing all these things in Alaska
and and all these fun exciting adventures and Argentina I
(16:09):
think I went, Remember I invited justin to Coome to Argentina.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yea, And all these things.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Are just like you know, just with the boys or
or you know, by myself and cruising around Europe. So
I get back to Charleston in the fall. I don't
know really what to do with myself.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Does that make sense? Like I'm like, oh, well, I'm.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Still on vacation, which you can trick yourself into doing.
I mean, look, we've got an interesting life, and we've
got a very lucky, fortunate life.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I do, and so do my co stars.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
We worked three four months a year, you know, intensely,
and then we have time off, and you know, if
you don't have a side project or you can fall
into the the trap of you know, to Martini lunch,
you know, what have you? And you know everybody wants
(17:02):
to hang out and.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Everyone wants to buy you drinks. I mean that's a
thing for you where you go places and everyone wants
to buy you drinks.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Take shots, take shots, correct, And so I went into
Bravo cons kind of like riding high.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I guess I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I mean, you know, I just thought that maybe this
was a party, a big giant party. Now, the one,
the one in New York a couple of years before.
Two years I loved those, by the way, like there's
no casino. Yeah, you're done with the thing and you
go out to a nice dinner and maybe go to
a bar after all.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Right, but this one, like the party was all night.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Las Vegas is a giant bar, you know, like it's
just crazy.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And I went into it the wrong approach.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And you know, you go to the Bravo Con and
everybody you go to the VIP section, Hey, have a margarita.
I'm like, well, it's nine thirty am. Well, and and
then by the time you're done, like you can make
it through the day. Great, everybody's wonderful and the fans
are great, and you take the thousands and thousands of pictures. Yeah,
(18:10):
and you make you put a smile on a lot
of people's faces.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
It's it's quite nice. Right.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Then you go back to the hotel and you've got
two three hours before you do Andy's show. Watch what happens,
which is a zoo anyways, and what do you do?
You know, you sit in your hotel room, you know
what I mean. So I just I hook line and
sink are like the dumbest fish in the ocean, you
know what I mean, Like and just wents for every
(18:38):
lure that I could find, and thought that I was
doing good work. You know. That tricked myself into thinking
I was doing really good things, which which I feel
like I will. I mean, I'm sure I made a
lot of people happy. But yeah, you know, is the
nighttime approached after these long days, then it's totally out
of your control, and that happens several nights and uh,
(19:01):
it sucked.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
It sucked, and you got in trouble.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well, no, I did a little.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I mean, honestly, it was more of the aftermath, like
there was like whispers, like there was nothing. There's no
smoking gun or glaring incident necessarily, right. It was just
like people being like getting back, like a couple of
people like Jesus, you know, it was up. And then
Andy called and was very nice and I was in
a little shame spiral at the time.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
What did he say?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
He just he basically said, you know, I want you
to be on this channel as long as you want.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
And if you.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You know, behave in such ways in front of these
eyeballs that are serious, important eyeballs, then you're You're not
You're not gonna be able to live life on your
terms as least as it pertains to this, you know,
to to Bravo TV.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So would you say, was it tough love or was
it like?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
No? It was no, it was you know, I said,
I know, I feel terrible.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
He goes, well, that's good to hear.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
He was glad that I was cognizant of the fact
that I that something had gone sideways, you know, and
some people could be in denial and stuff. I'm really
I'm a hard I'm a hard, harsh critic of myself,
no doubt.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And you're very self aware.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I try to be.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
We were hanging out, you and I the day after
you taped the reunion, yeah, and you told me what
you had just said to your castmates. You apologized, you
said some I thought really brave things. You got some
tough love back from your castmates. Was it hard to
be that vulnerable both to them and the cameras?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah? I was, I was, man. I thought about what
I wanted to say for weeks prior, because I wanted
it to mean something and to land correctly and emphatically,
but also to just be vulnerable too. I just thought
that was the best thing I could do in that moment.
(21:03):
There's a bit of holding myself accountable again, not to
be in denial and to shrug things off that that
you're not pleased about is not the way I want
to go through life. And and but boy are there's
there's a litany of things that I that that could
keep me up at night, just stupid things. So you
don't want to you don't hold on to it too long,
(21:23):
but you really really examine things, uh and incidents and
circumstances and and then you try to really apply some
lessons and move forward.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
All right, So tell me about ayahuasca.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So yeah, I was like kind of like, what should
I do? Like, you know, it's nice to get that
off my chest on national television.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, And but what should I do?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
And I started talking to some friends around Charleston, and
then this guy's like, you should talk to this guy, Kenny.
He's the next Navy seal and he did Iowa. He
does some alternative medicine stuff. And I was like, yeah,
I'd be happy to because my friend Bailey, he's been
on the show. She lived in Buenos Aires for a
long time and she's done it like seven times and
(22:11):
she always always.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Telling me we get so much out of it.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And so I talked to Kenny and he was like,
he was like, have you heard of the Toad? I
was like, no, I have not heard of the toad?
And the toad is like He's like, well, I don't
think you should do it because it's not first he
was like, you know, you should maybe like start with
ayahuasca and then but the toad is something crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
You should look it up.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
No, this is the licking toad's thing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Well, you smoke it, but it's off of toad's back
or something.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
No, I'll tell you who told me to do this.
You won't believe this.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Who.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Rick Perry, former governor of Texas.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, wow, called.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Me when I first opened up about my mental health challenges.
He called me directly and said, Essie, I got something
for you. I take all my guys from like with
PTSD from the military, I take them all down to
Mexico and we do this toad thing and it changes
their lives. Yeah, I didn't do it, but I really
appreciated his outreach.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah that's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So so he was like, yeah, try this place and
called Ridmia and so I went, all right, I called
out there. It's in Costa Rica, Okay, And so I
get there. I'm writing a book about this, by the way,
about my whole experience. It was so crazy and so interesting.
And so we're not in Kansas anymore, and first day
(23:34):
of camp for school or what have you. It was
a bunch of people thrown together about to embark on
this crazily spiritual journey and nobody knows what to expect,
and everybody's gingerly shaking each other's hand and it's just
like and you know, it was just outrageously interesting. And
I just started writing as soon as I landed at
(23:56):
the airport and got on this bus with some of
my my new friends and fellow participants. Yeah, and just
was listening to all the conversations, partaking in many of
them as well. And uh just was my percolating with
with some I don't know creativity and uh so yeah,
I mean I don't I don't know how bogged down
(24:17):
you want to get into it, but.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Oh, I want to get into it, like what did
you hope to get out of it? And what did
what did what did it feel like when you were
on it, and what happened after?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Right right? Well, one of the things they say is
you might think you know why you're here or why
you want to be here, but you you there's very,
very possible you'll leave with something completely different than what
you thought you were trying to go there for.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You know, Hey, I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, but I was there. Well, part of the reason
I was there. Most of the reason was just like
sort of confront the uh the wild animal inside me
or whatever, the the guy that takes it too far,
the guy that you know, three isn't enough, I need
six kind of thing, you know what I mean. And
so I did confront that guy, and uh I pretty
(25:07):
successfully and pretty Oh I got vividly. I mean I
could go into it. I mean some of the visions
I had were just absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Do you have visions of yourself or you have visions
of other things?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, I mean I had. Well I don't want to
spoil the.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Book, Okay, yeah, you don't have to get like, but
just gives me the general idea here.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, so they asked you all these different question you're
supposed to ask the medicine a question that the medicine
is called mother ayahuasca, and it's like a female and
she is in charge and she permeates throughout the room
and and you're supposed to ask her questions. Uh, and
then try to be as specific as you as you can.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Like a board kind of.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And so you know, the first night is who have
I become? Is the question you're supposed to ask. Now,
you can ask any question you want, but they have
a little roadmap for it. It's a very slick, very
well done operation. It's like they've thought of everything. And
the accommodations are nice and the food is good, you know.
So it's a very lovely environment that they create. It's
(26:14):
very wellness and you know they you don't have to
but they you know, you do breathing exercises and a
little bit of yoga, so they kind of get you
in the mood. And then and then everybody sort of everybody,
because it's such a outlandish experience, is lets their guard
down and uh, and you and people are really honest
(26:35):
with one another. So it was really great, and I
mean so yeah, I mean I'll just tell you, like
the first night I'm going through it, man, Like the
way I see it is mother Ayahuasca enters like you yawn.
I don't know if you've eaten mushrooms before of it,
(26:57):
you know they're working when you yawn really deeply, is
like I don't know why it's okay. So that that
that happens in my theory is that mother Ayawaska enters
enters your body when you yawn okay, and then untangles
all these knots and webs insides you, whether it be
ego or past trauma, and then you're literally writhing on
(27:21):
the ground like ah, like you remember the matrix where
the guy she jumped jumps into the agent.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
And yeah, all this stuff that's how it feels.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You're like, ah, is it painful?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
No, no, nothing, but it's just it's just intense and yeah,
but it's and then you you know, you purge, and
this is my theory.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
This there's no basis of fact here.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
You purge, whether it's go to the bathroom or throw
up in their bucket next year's mattress. And then it's
sort of over that that section is over. Whatever you
dealt with is dealt with, and maybe you can revisit it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
But does everyone purge.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I don't know, no, not everybody, some more than others.
There's some guys next to me. I thought their guts
were turned inside out. But but you can get up
and walk around. You don't have to stay in the
in the enclosed, beautiful enclosed area by the way, and
the shaman was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
There's four different ones each night, and.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
They had a band with them, like bongos and guitar
and flute like a like a made out of bamboo,
and a singer singing these beautiful Spanish lullabies. There's a
bonfire and you're just like, oh my god, this is
like a Tarantino movie or a David Lynch movie, like
(28:40):
something out of a dream, like a fever dream. And
meanwhile you're just like, right, you're like either coming to
some aha conclusion or you're dealing with something that's inside you.
And all this stuff, and I mean, I'll just give
you one example. The first night, I envisioned a amusement
(29:04):
park ride where there's the pole and all the and
then there's all the swings hanging down from the pole,
and then it goes around and round, and the swings.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Go out and out, you know, ye ye yep.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Well in the swings where all the people that I
knew and loved and they're laughing and carrying on. And
I was like, oh, that's nice. And then I look
up and I'm the pole.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I'm the one. I'm the one that has to be sturdy.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I have to be reliable, or the amusement park life
that I so desire.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Trumbles and is a disaster.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
And then I was like, oh my god, it's so
cool and so vivid and so vivid.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, and once it's over, these things stay with you.
It's not like a dream where you like forget it.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I wrote, I wrote down everything. You should see my journal.
It's hilarious. It's like it's like diagonal vertical, like I
write because you can't see that well A and B
like you can't write, you're like out of your mind
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
But I got a lot from my journal. It's sitting
over here.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
I've already written twenty five thousand words. I've got probably
another fifteen twenty to go before it's a book.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, and I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
But my biggest takeaway, not personally, just overall in the
world takeaway is I see there is so much trauma
and pain in the world, so much and anybody you
walk past you have no idea what they're going through.
Anybody literally, you know, the guy raking the lawn, the
(30:42):
guy behind the camera at CNN, Like, everyone has a
story and it's and some of them are very sad.
And so I think the biggest thing for Ayahuasca, I
don't have much trauma. I'm really really blessed to not.
I mean, childhood was idyllic. I was in toldon had Island,
(31:04):
ride my mountain bike around, playing basketball, and my brother
and sister were both were happy, and yeah, everyone was great.
That part I actually brought me to tears at the
end of the whole process because just so much gratitude
because of all these wonderful memories and all this love
and care that I've been provided and support. But boy,
(31:28):
I heard stories there that you couldn't write in a script.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
No one would believe it.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
But and that's how beautiful it was, meaning beautiful in
the fact that people were just shared they were there
to share it, and they were there to tell them
what they would tell you what they were going through.
And I had grown men cry in my arms at
lunch the next day, wow, talking about how terrible their
father was or something like that.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
And I mean some tough guys too.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I mean I met some really cool guys there too,
Navy seal who I became buddies with, and another like
a jiu jitsu champion, and so I met all these
great people. But my takeaway was gratitude and realizing how
much people struggle out there.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
But I think.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Ayahuasco really really unlocks your ability to.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Appease the trauma. I really do.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
A lot of people talked about spending times with dead
relatives wow, or with transgressors of their youth, whatever that
may be.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And because if you hold on to.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
That, I don't know firsthand, but if you hold on
to that, that can really ruin everything. Right.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, And in my therapy, I've learned you know that
you could be holding on to some traumas that you
didn't identify as traumas or because they didn't seem big.
You know, they didn't seem impactful, but they are in
ways that really imprint on your life. And if you
don't do the work of sort of packing that. In
(33:01):
my case it led to an extreme anxiety disorder and
a nervous breakdown. But I mean, it can just lead
to so many things. You know, you pass it on generationally.
So doing the work on yourself, learning what might have
been a past trauma or or what you were reacting
to in your life, you know, things you didn't realize
(33:22):
you were constantly reacting to. It's just really helpful. I
would encourage everyone to get, you know, therapy or do
something like you're describing to just know yourself better.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because Craig, you know, in
the reunion and even even in this upcoming season, he's like,
is it possible that some of your behavior is do
to the post you know Taylor breakup, like or and
the and you know, the Austin Taylor thing last year.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
It's entirely possible, that's true, But I just don't think
about it that way, you know what I mean, right, And.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So you're right, You're right, it's not it's not redline
every time you know, you don't have to be abused.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
It can be something completely else totally.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Do you feel different now, Like is it a before
and after.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
You have to do the work, like you said, And
I'm the first to admit it. I'm going to write
a PostScript or a chapter at the end with saying
I came back and I had all these lovely feelings
and thoughts, and I reverted a handful of times back
to exactly why I went there, like what are you doing?
But I talked to some like my navy seal friend
(34:32):
I was there was after, you know, just actually like
you know, after a night that I was just like,
what happened, you know? And I mean I was fine,
everybody's fine, nobody got hurt. But I was like, that's
not what we're trying to do anymore, dude, And he goes, shah,
you think you can change overnight, you think you're.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
A different person.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
No, No, All habits die hard, and you know, certain
friendships that you have to sort of draw new bounce
with friendships too, And so that's something that takes time
and it takes mistakes. So it's not like a magic pill.
It's not an elixir, you know. And I learned that
(35:14):
a little bit the hard way, and I'm still learning.
I'm still learning about it, but I have it in
me and maybe I'll go back. I mean, there's other
stuff I'd like to try, but I mean this this
is I Okaine, I had, I had, I know, and
there's something else it's like kind of more intense, and
I invite everyone to at least think about it. Yeah,
they say, the worst thing that can happen to you
(35:36):
is nothing, like you come to no conclusions and you
don't see anything, even the worst episodes on a particular
night where you know one woman, I should say, this
is a book, but fuck it, I'll tell you because
I love you. On the first night, I was in
there on that pamock outside staring at the Big Dipper
(35:58):
and the galaxy, and this woman was going berserk. They
moved her outside and put her on a mattress outside
just just like she was being absolute torn apart by wolves.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
And I was just like, ugh, this staff was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
The staff was there for her. They were saying, breathe
and you know, it's okay, You're gonna be fine, and
then she would start laughing maniacally. I was like whoa,
And I just got up and left because like it
was like not where.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I didn't need to be around that, and I think
everybody else did. Just give her space.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
And the next day I went and found her and
was like, hey, how are you, And she's like, I'm
actually really good. And I was like, oh god, well
it didn't sound like you last night. She's like yeah, well,
And I was like, do you want sharing with me?
And she said, yeah, yeah, of course I will. She's like,
my mother committed suicide when I was twelve years old
and I was with her last night.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
So I was like, oh man, how powerful is that?
Speaker 4 (37:00):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So, however painful it might be when you're on the medicine,
it's so therapeutic, I think. And uh, all these people
just like really coming to terms with a lot of
serious personal things, including myself.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Including myself.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
But I mean, this plant based stuff has been going
on for thousands and thousands of years. This isn't like nothing.
I mean that it should be explored and studied. And
I mean it's from a root and a leaf in
the Amazons.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
So oh, you're definitely getting me to think about it
for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Oh my god, you would get so much out of it.
I really believe that.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I want to switch gears just a little bit. Why
why are people obsessed with you settling down. I don't know, right, Like,
why is that? I think you just know who you
are and it's not that you're like avoiding marriage. It's
that I think you think you won't be good at it,
and that's actually very self aware and responsible.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Yeah, it's funny, man.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
I don't think I would do toddlers that well, but
I know it once they walk and talk and their personality,
I would thrive.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
I would love that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I'm glad you said that because let me tell you,
I've told you this, but listeners, how great you would be.
Because that same day after the reunion we were talking,
right before you came, you came over to my house
for the Christmas party's kaplan. Yeah right, I was going
(38:48):
through something scary with my kiddo and I shared that
he was having some challenges at that time, and you
said something so great to me. You said, well, all
that means is he's going to get that awesome opportunity
to overcome those challenges and think about how amazing he'll
be because of that. And it was just such a
(39:11):
great perspective and it meant a lot to me. But
that you said that like instinctively, and I think if
you wanted to, I think you'd be a great dad.
Now that doesn't mean you have to be, but I
think you're just your perspective, Yeah, would make you a
great dad.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I love Kay. I'm a child, you know, and I
know how to talk to them. I like talking to
them and hearing what they have to say. And yeah,
I would love that. It would be so rewarding in
so many ways. So I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking
about it a lot. And I'm forty four, about to
turn forty five, and yeah, I'm accepting all applications.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Kidding, just you know, double spaced outline.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
For well, speaking of you shot a reality show, a
dating show called Relationship, did you enjoy that?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I wanted it to be different, I'll say.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
That, like from a production standpoint.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yeah, basically what I wanted it to be SI was.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
To show a debutante from Dallas is not like a
beach bum from San Diego, which isn't like a aspiring
actors from la which isn't like a tech girl from
San Francisco who isn't like a hipster from Portland, who
isn't like a farmer's daughter from Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, I kind of wanted.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
It to be like a fun like where in the
world is shep and go out on dates, you know,
and we're going to examine the local culture and maybe
even on each date, dress like how I think the
person would dress in that city, you know, like a
Dan Dana Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
You know, a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
And I know that sounds silly, of course I'm silly
at my heart at heart, but no, I like, well,
it's very expensive apparently to go from Cities city with
all the all the cameras and the crew and stuff.
So I was pie in the sky. Yeah, I guess
by like one thing and is that. Yeah, I won't
(41:12):
get into I'm not going to criticize it. I had
a lot of fun doing it. It was way different
than Southern Charm and the fact that it was just me.
If I was having a bad day, I couldn't sit
in the corner. Not that I usually do or ever do, really,
but if you're in an ensemble scene in Southern Charm
and you're just like you don't have there's not a
lot of pressure. You know, you can pick your spots.
(41:34):
But yeah, all of it was on me, and that's cool.
But let's think about this the girls that were I
was dating with have never really been on TV, so
I had to lift. I had to do what I
could to make it the most entertaining thing.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
So I'm proud of that. I really am.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
My improv skills I guess you would call it or
ad lib abilities.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
And producer skills. I mean that's a producer hat that
you were wearing to try and make it TV. Yeah,
I was so.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, I'm proud of it. I don't know, I you know,
is it a little frustrating that everybody was in a
house together, like like you know what show? Yes, it was,
it was a little it kind of watered down everything
in my opinion, Right, I get.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
It, I get it, all right. I want to do
now lightning round before we say goodbye? All right, what's
the best sports movie?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Bull Durham?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I knew because we are such were romantics and we're
you know, intellectuals a bit, I knew you were going
to say that. And that's mine too. I just knew it.
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
There's so many though. All the football ones are pretty bad.
The longest yard is good, I mean that's old. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Burt Reynolds does mash.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Count Remember the Mash the movie where they played football.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Now, yeah, I love Mash. Finally, it's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
But that's not that doesn't count as a sports movie.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
What are some other ones? Just?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
What's the other Kevin Costner one? And I'm not thinking
of Field.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Of Dreams for Lover Money.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Kevin.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Kevin Costner has his own genre of sports movies. He's
got about Jerry Maguire is a good one. I like Rudy.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah, there a miracle?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah okay. Next question, who would you bring back if
you could bring anyone back to Southern charm?
Speaker 1 (43:37):
I mean Cameron of course.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah. Are you guys still good friends?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, we are, she messaged me this morning if.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
The show ended tomorrow. Who would you still be very
good friends with?
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Whitney? Okay?
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Could you ever live in the North, I mean the
North of America above the Mason Dixon Line.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yes, I could, I really, I'm just I'm looking, but
I'd rather live in the in the Rockies.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Okay, so not the not the Northeast, yes, yes, all right.
You can only choose one. Pheasant hunt or deep sea
fishing charter pheasant.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Okay, fly fishing in Alaska pheasant hunt fly fishing in Alaska.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Oh, and that's an important distinction.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, okay, or part of the Bahamas or something like that.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
I mean, salmon fishing in Alaska is like one of
my all time favorite things to do. It is, so
it's like spiritual. I love it. Okay. Lastly, this is
the question we always ask, and it's very important to
me personally, culturally, spiritually. When is iced coffee season?
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I don't drink ice coffee. I had, I just don't.
I like hot coffee.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I like my coffee hot.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
So for you, iced coffee season is never maybe July
and August. Okay, that's an incorrect answer. It's your round,
it's your round. But that's okay. This is this is
really the only area and where we differ.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
But that's right. I think I can handle that.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
All right.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, what I was about to tell you is that
you know, we tried. We did our test run on
on doing this. We knew yeah, yes, doing a podcast
and whatever. You know, we by no fault of either
of us. Nothing came of it. But uh so, Whitney
and I have have started our in the gestation stages
(45:30):
of doing something together. So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
And good that Whitney Southerlersmith, who is a producer and
sort of creator creator of the show and also was
on the show for some seasons.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna do like a different podcast,
like on location somewhere like maybe in Europe, like bouncing
around the cities and just do things. And we're gonna
do on camera too. So it's gonna be like a
podcast on camera. But also so so some of us
sitting down, but a lot of us moving around and
talking and meeting people. So I love that it could
(46:06):
be something different. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
That's great. And you should be on the road. You
both of you are childless men who of means, who
can travel to incredible places, and that's one hundred percent
what you should be doing.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
And we should and we thrive in these places and
then percolate creatively creatively. Yes, so yeah, I'm excited about
And you mentioned Cameron. Yeah, this is just an idea,
but Cameron, I think is on board. Cameron and I
are obsessed with Bigfoot, So oh my god, you should
come down. We're gonna go to the big Foot Festival
(46:44):
and on camera. Do you want to do you want
to join us.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Okay, we're going to do it.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
So when I when I had to show at MSNBC,
I had I had squatch watchers come on and and
talk about like finding Bigfoot and doing squatch calls. No,
I'm about love.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
I love it. Okay, all right, I think it's happening.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
All right, thank you so much, shep Rose. Friend reality star,
but really like member of the family at this point,
I just appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Thank you. See take care.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Coming up next week on Off the Cup, I get
to talk to Huey Lewis. It doesn't get any better.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
I called all the boys in the band and we
all went came to my place and we sat there
and watched the radio like you used to do in
the thirties, you know. And I'm watching the radio and
now they say, okay, here's a new band from Marin
County and blah blah blah. Do you believe lovers Huey
Lewis the news and they play the record and I could.
I thought two things and I'll never forget it. One,
(47:43):
I thought, Wow, it's going to be a hit at
number two, I thought, and it doesn't sound anything like us.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the recent Choice Network. I'm your HOSTESSIO editing
and sound designed by Dirk Clements. Our executive producers are
me Si Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If you
like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever you
get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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