November 20, 2024 • 58 mins
This week, S.E. brings in comedian Brad Garrett! Brad talks about growing up with very encouraging parents who also struggled deeply in their own ways. He shares some fantastic stories about opening for Sinatra, being the youngest comic to appear on Johnny Carson and why Ray Romano didn't want him to play his cop brother, Robert, on the hit sitcom, Everyone Loves Raymond. And S.E. divulges the super random connection they have to a little art gallery in Boston. And find out if Brad Garrett can choose between Albert Brooks or Billy Crystal in a comedy-themed lightning round.
You can also see Brad perform at his own comedy club (Brad Garrett's Comedy Club) at the MGM in Las Vegas. Or check him out in the new Pixar movie, Elio, coming out summer 2025.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If I could like walk into a house in the
Midwest unannounced and just just sitting down with regular people. Yeah, no,
here's here's a nine foot insecured you coming to your
home and you just knock on the door. What's that smell?
You could be that boy, I smell meat loafing aim.
(00:24):
You have to be like Allen, you know? Can I
come in?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I love talking to comedians because I feel like to
be a really good comedian you have to be really
self aware. And I think my least favorite people to
talk to are people who can't see what everybody else sees,
like do you know yourself at all? And comedians know thyselves.
There are no pretenses or veneers. And my next guest
(00:56):
is so funny but also so thoughtful and lovely. You
know him from Everybody Loves Raymond, the Emmy nominated film Gleason,
where he played Jackie Gleason till Death the Night at
the Museum Movies. He performs regularly at his own comedy
club at the MGM Grand because he's a baller who
has their own comedy club. It's Brad Garrett. Welcome to
(01:17):
off the cup. Brad. How are you good? I'm better now?
That you're here.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Great to be here. I feel a little self aware.
Is it okay?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Your hair looks great?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Thank you. Part of it's mine and part of it
was donated to me.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It was a gift.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Actually, I took the hair off my dog before I
ate it. So it's Alicia. It was time. It was
time for him. He was ready, had a shelte. Good
to see you, honey, Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm so happy to talk to you because we've been
like Twitter or Instagram friends for a few years now.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Have you been getting my dms and everything? You're okay
with the pictures?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Nothing untoward was sent. Just want everyone to know.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Good.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
There's so much I want to get into with you.
I want to start. I want to start with your childhood.
Were you funny as a kid?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know? I think, yeah, I was? I was. I
think I you know. I was raised by uh, loving
parents that really struggled mentally, okay, and my mom suffered
from extreme depression. My father was a wonderful man and
(02:42):
really really my hero growing up, but he was bipolar
and we didn't know that until much later in life.
We just thought he was eccentric and yeah, fun and
you know, wanted his son to be his wingman and
all great things when I was growing up. But I
think when you're raised with parents that struggle no matter
what it is, I think we feel like it's our
(03:04):
job to entertain.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Them or make them happy, make them laugh.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Them happy, fix the problem.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
There's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, it is. It is. And you know, my mom
was very critical, and it was like she didn't even
want me in the home movies, which every time she
would think she always said, you know what, good audition,
We're going another way. And she would try to cast
(03:33):
other children in my room growing up, which she heardened
me made this armor. No, but I think you know,
my father was incredibly funny and I got a lot
of that from him. But I was bullied a lot
growing up because I was like six feet to twelve.
I had no athletic ability. I looked and this is
(03:57):
a compliment, I looked like Liza Minelli as I was
growing up. No, I really did. I'll send you some
picture they're touching them please. But I had, you know,
I had eyes that looked like I was crying off
my mascarra every time I went to school. I just
I had that looked like when I look at the pictures,
there's only three pictures of me from my childhood. One
(04:19):
was in court. I look like I have three jobs.
I looked like I could be making iPhones in China.
When I look at the small, small pictures of me,
I look at I go what was I going through?
But it was a lot of people really trying hard
to do their best. Yeah, and you know there was
(04:39):
there was a lot of you know, dysfunction.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But did you have siblings?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I had two older brothers, quite a bit older than
I'm the youngest of three, and my oldest brother was
nine years older and then the middle was six years older.
We have the same mom, different dads, okay, and we
were as close as we could be. You know. The
key was to get out as soon as we could
(05:04):
of the house and kind of do our own, our
own thing and it. You know, it's so difficult when
people you love and you're closed with struggle and the
refuse help.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh, is that what happened? They didn't want to get
They really didn't want the help. That's of a generation,
I think it is.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
That's why I love talking about this stuff, you know,
because of people like yourself and you know it's now important,
you know, and that it's okay, you know, to not
be okay as they say, I know that's so clich Yeah,
it's true, and it's good to know that people do,
you know, face a lot of challenges, and I think
more so than ever because of this crazy world word
(05:45):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And I want to talk about mental health a lot
with you because that's the point of this. But so
you you go to college but you drop out right
to do comedy.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yes, well I was. I was also encouraged to leave. Yeah,
the school was like, you're you're not cut out for this,
and I you know, I busted my behind to be
like a strong B student. And growing up I really
didn't have friends, you know, a lot of them. Some
I paid and they were right by the house and hunk.
(06:18):
But my teachers were kind of like my See. I
knew early on that if you if you make the
teachers laugh when you're the class clown, they have something.
It's easy to make the other kids laugh, especially in
public school because you know, so I think when I
made my teachers laugh, I knew that there was really
(06:39):
something there. And early on my teachers really went like
you got to get in the theater. I mean I
was doing stand up at like sixteen, I was doing
bar Mitzvah's and it was really you know, it's horrific.
I don't know if you've ever tried to make rabbis laugh,
but it's it was hell.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
You had encouragement and people recognize that you were talented young.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I had encouraged it. My parents were incredibly encouraging. You know.
My dad really got it. And I think my mom
was hoping that, you know, if if I got famous,
that maybe she could get a job. You know, I
think it was kind of her thing. You know. It's
like when I started opening for different acts in Vegas,
(07:24):
I would have my parents, you know, would I would
have my mom and her third husband, my stepdad. I
would have him in the audience. I was opening for
Sinatra for a while and last part of his life,
you know, when he was God bless him, I mean,
the greatest, but he was like does summer Win does
a tray up? Bob Bob? So now, yeah, I was
(07:48):
just so happy for the gig. And I grew up
on that music, so that was like it was incredible,
But less Frank, he had bigger things to remember, and
he called me Greg Barrett for two years while opening
for him, you know. And Frank isn't the guy you
stick down and correct.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
You don't correct Frank, you don't.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
You know. And I went to his buddy Julie and
I went, you know, we've been on the road five months.
Maybe you can tell Frank that I'm Brad, you know.
And he's like, you want the gig or not? You
don't like working with Frank. And it became that. So
I was Greg, and my mom from the audience was like,
his name is Brad?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
His name?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
This happened in Vegas, okay? And I would take her
and I would talk about my mom and my aunt.
She would say that isn't true. His mother I never
you know. So there was eventually a restraining order at
the Desert Inn to keep my mom from and then
she hit on Steve Lawrence when I opened for Steve
(08:53):
and Edie.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And she's like a character.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Oh, she was wonderful. She told Sammy Davis that not every.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Night is bad Duke my god.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah it was, I gotta tell you, but but I
felt better if I did an invite her. Yeah, was
a wonderfully complicated woman.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So at twenty three, you go on Carson, one of
the youngest comedians ever to go on that show. What
how did you take all of that in?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well, you know, it was, you know, it's it's kind
of hard to explain. I mean it was you know,
you're behind that curtain you grow up watching, and you
know it was, you know, my stand up until I
really found myself. It was very you know, pedestrian and
really kind of hackey and just nothing really where you're going,
(09:58):
wow this, you know, and uh, it was okay. But
I had one Star search and Ed McMahon hosted that
winning star search, and you know I would always get
ice for Ed and sneak it into his trailer and
I would open up the salve and he would tell
me stories. And so he helped, I think, get me
(10:20):
on the Tonight Show. And I did a handful of him,
and you know, it really really helped because in those days,
you know, there were five channels and if you did
decent would you know, I think my key was timing
in cadence over material.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Suit.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, and then I just like when I was opening
for the big acts and they never want to see
the opening act. I left my material and I just
started to roast the crowd.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
You know, rejection anger. And then Frank's audience, you know,
you take went to the melon if you roast the
wrong guy. John Gotti in the front row in Atlantic City.
I didn't know who John Gotty was. This was ninety one.
He was in the front row in a top hat,
(11:14):
dark glasses and like a white shirt and tails. And
I went, oh, my god, it's mister peanut, you know,
just joking around. So I go backstage and.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
You said that to his face.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Well he was in the audience. I didn't know it
was John Gotti, you know. And I go backstage and
Jilly was like, you have to hide. So they put me,
you know, they said, don't come out until we let
you know. John Gotti went backstage, and I'm sure there
was gunplay and him Frank played I don't know crazy
eights or whatever they did. But the point is I
(11:48):
started busting the balls of Frank's people that were in
the front row, and they loved it. And you know,
it's kind of like Rickles on steroids. Yeah, and so
now in this, you know, and this what I do
at my club is just you know, mostly crowd work
and improv, which I love and.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That's my thing, and that's really come back, Like crowd
work is so popular now.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, it's all I've really, I mean, I mean
never done, you know, And yeah, yeah, like Gray, you know,
Ray and I worked together for a while and he
would say, why Kurt, you suit down for five minutes
and right, just right, and I'm like, look you right,
and I'm great. Now. He's really amazing. I mean, he's
(12:38):
really funny. He's a great writer. That's never been my thing.
I'd rather go out without a net and I get
moored easy. And you know, we spent many many years
on the road together and having a great time and
working the casinos together. Yeah, but I think there was
a time where the casinos were really worried, especially during
the cancel culture, and I went, you know, this is
(13:00):
what I do and this is what it is, and
you know you're not going to change at sixty four
and I love doing this. And yeah, that it did
a whole full circle. And now people seem to really
want the edge because they're so tired of hearing what
they can laugh at what they can't laugh at. Yeah,
and you know, you have to have a career to
(13:21):
get canceled. So thank god I can't get canceled.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You've had a career. Stop.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I'm working the food court, Essie. I love to have
you and the kid come by. We got balloons. He
can color the menu.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Okay, So you mentioned Ray is landing a sitcom, especially
a successful one, the dream for comedians or do you
prefer stand up?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, you know, I always felt that acting was I mean,
I was always doing stand up. But to me, acting was,
you know, the holy grail. That was the brass room
for me, you know, and get on that show. I
mean I auditioned and a couple times, and I knew
how lucky I was, you know, a halfway through the
(14:09):
first season you go board. The chemistry of the cast
was so organic, and that's really the key. After you
have great writers. You got to have the writers. And
this group was just about, you know, as good as
they get. And there was that synergy of just everything popping,
and Ray knew what the show is about, and Phil
(14:30):
knew how to create it around Ray, and it was
just one of those things. And I got lucky. You know,
you got to you gotta be lucky too. You got
to work hard, but when that audition comes, you got
to be prepared. I was never some I mean I
could have done stand up my whole life and been
happy because I still love it. You know. It wasn't like, well,
I'm going to try stand up and maybe that'll get
(14:52):
me a sitcom because you know, like for a while
they were giving people on TikTok that had two million
followers a pilot, and yeah, you know what happens with
that because they don't have a skill set, they just
have something that went viral. Right, So back in those days,
you know, we really worked on our craft. I was
an acting class since I was eighteen, So it was
(15:13):
something that I always, you know, felt I wanted to do,
not something that would necessarily crack for me.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So Raymond Goes ninety six to two thousand and five,
Seinfeld was eighty nine to ninety eight, Fraser Is ninety
three to two thousand and four, Friends ninety four to
two thousand and four, Will and Grace ninety eight to
two thousand and six. King of Queens ninety eight to
two thousand and seven. You were airing concurrently with the
biggest sitcoms on the planet, including yours. Yeah, well, what
(15:45):
was that? I mean, it's such a high time for sitcoms.
What was that like? And were there like any rivalries?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
You know, there really weren't rivalries. I mean to be honest.
You know, Friends and Seinfeld they were the juggernauts. You know,
we were very different show. Those shows were really pushing
the envelope and friendship super sexy and really funny and
yeah and Frasier was you know, that was such a
high bar. We were doing something really kind of different.
(16:14):
That kind of went back to, you know, that old
vibe of what sitcoms were.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Like all in the family.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, well, I mean to me, that's, you know, nothing
better than that shob right in my opinion, But I
think that's what, you know, that was what I think
everyone wanted to strive for that family unit that you know,
had no choice but to be together and how do
we navigate that? And you know, Phil ran the show
(16:42):
where like when he would break a story literally the
writer's room every Monday, he would go around the table
to the writers and he would go, you know, what
happened this weekend? What happened this weekend? And almost all
the time something would be hatched in that room it's
it's like the luggage episode. It was a big, a
(17:02):
big episode for the show where you know, Ray and
Dever just argued over who's going to put away that
last piece of luggage?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Are you referring to the suitcase that you haven't moved
in three weeks? Is that the suitcase to which.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
You are referring?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Why couldn't you move it? Why couldn't you move it?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
All right?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You are not going to the airport with a grocery bag.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Take the suitcase. You know, that little pettiness of marriage
and those kind of things. You know, it all happened
the thing with my my lucky suit you know when
I went to interview with the FBI. You know, this
is something that happened to one of the writers fathers,
you know, and it just it just comes from a
(17:49):
good place. That being said, you know, we knew who
the big boys were, you know when we watched Seinfeld
and Friends the way anybody else did, But there weren't
the real you know, a real satisfaction of airing during
that golden era and be able to hold our.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Own Oh totally yeah, And you very memorable part on
Seinfeld the mechanic.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
There's really nothing wrong on the inside. Well, the ship
Nove is loose. You know about that?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
No, I haven't noticed.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Have you been picking at it?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Have I been picking at it?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
No? You know, just wear and tear, wearing tear.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I see love it. But I've heard tell me if
I'm wrong. I've heard that that was a tough set
because they were so big and coming on for an
episode or two was tough. How did you find that?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You know, I found it incredibly easy. Actually, we shot
on location. I read for Jerry And.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Did you know Jerry before?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, No, no, I didn't. I didn't even know Ray before.
Oh okay, but no, Ray, yeah, yeah, and we heard
when I was up for his brother. You know, Ray
was like, not the guy from Star Search. And you know, honestly,
you know I get it because you know, I'm on
Star Search going you know, what if Cosby was a pilot,
(19:12):
you know, give me this stuff. You know, obviously before
the yeah right, obviously before he found out he really
wasn't a pilot. Now, yeah, so I was doing stuff
like that. You know that scared a lot of comics.
It scared me, but you know I needed the money.
So you know, My point is, it's you know, I
(19:34):
had to find my way physically and really every other way.
I wasn't the character they were looking for for Ray's brother,
you know, because Ra's brother, really, you know, was an
NYPD cop under cover. They kind of wanted like a
Danny DeVito type of scrappy, smaller guy that wasn't intimidating
(19:58):
to Ray because the line everybody loves Raymond is what
his cop brother said in real life to him when
Ray won the Ace Award. You know, he came home
and he looked at the award and he said that line.
When did he get this?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Oh, that's an award your brother got for his sports column.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Never ends for Raymond, Robbie, Everybody loves Raymond. I go
to work, people shoot at me. Why goes to work?
People do the wave? When he sits down, has a
hot dog, doodles on a piece of paper, they gimme
a trophy. So I knew the writing was so great
(20:39):
when I read the pilot, and I had trouble getting
in because they didn't see me as and I got that,
but I said, just let me read. I have a
different take of this guy, and it was, you know,
I had to go against my size by not playing
him too e or I mean like from year one
a year two. I had to bump it up a
bit because and you know, pivot a little because it
(21:03):
was able two beaten where you're two. You know, it
was like it was like, you know, he's got to
be a contender. It's he's a contender, you know. Yeah,
we didn't find him at a carnival, you know, rightful
way of putting things. So as an actor, I use
the thing is like in my head, I was raised
an only child, and they forgot to tell Robert. So
(21:26):
this is something I tried to carry.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know, it's so great. How'd you come up with that?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It was just, you know, I knew I had to
find something a fine line of I haven't given up
in life, I've given up on them.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, okay, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So I was able to celebrate even the small things
that happened. And then later in the show, I discovered, wait,
I have something that none of the men in this
family have. My freedom. That was before I got married
to the wonderful Monica. So but before for that, I
had that freedom. And the way the writers wrote it
is that was something that filled and Ray envied my
(22:06):
social life, me being able to come home when I want,
eat dinner when I want. So they found that nugget
to keep me on life support.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You know, yeah, I get it. I want to talk
about a movie. I absolutely adore music and lyrics. Oh
really love it?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Do you have cable? Oh no, I had, I had
a lot of That was a fun movie.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I mean it's got such great heart. I love the music.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, it was a ball.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It looked fun like first Drew and and Hugh just
look fun amazing. Yeah, and you play an agent of
this like aging sort of wham, like the artist just
like struggling to get him on like county fairs exactly. Well,
it's just so great. I hope other people have seen it,
(23:05):
and if they haven't, go see it because it's just
a great movie. It looked like a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It was a fun one. When they used to do
those rom coms.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I don't know what happened, Yeah, yeah, don't know what.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Happened to that. You know, I think they can do
it now, and even you know, they can keep the
edge that they want to do now. So many of
the of the feature comedies are just they're not out there,
which is just too bad. Hopefully that'll come around.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I agree, there's nothing wrong with a great rom com.
We all love them, even if we're embarrassed to admit it.
We all love a great rom com.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think so. I think so.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's such a great antidote everything else that's going on.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah it is. Well, are you going to quit the
news and maybe do maybe a cooking show?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
See?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Now, have you thought of it?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I would love to quit the news.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
What a time to be doing what you're doing, and
you do it so great.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's really hard, and as we'll discuss, it's not been
great for my mental health. Okay, okay, but we'll get
to that. We'll get to that. Are you big into music?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
You like music?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I am?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
You know. My thing is, you know, I love the
old stuff. I love some of the new stuff. But
you know, I was raised on R and B, and
my dad turned me onto soul music and motown. And
he was a big white guy from the Bronx and
he just had a great, great taste in music and
he so, so I kind of like that genre. But
(24:49):
you know, I went to see Pearl Jam a few
months ago, and I you know, I love Dave Matthews,
and and I wish Neil Diamond would come back, and
and you know, it's I'm all over the place I was.
You know, I love Tony Bennett.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Are you a fan of Elo?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know it's interesting to say that.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think you know why I'm asking?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Are they there? Oh? Okay, you know it's it's funny.
I didn't it's it was. It was.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You can say no, but our listeners should know you
were on an album. You are on the back of
an Elo album Discovery from nineteen seventy ninety three.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Isn't that crazy? I was?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, how did that happen? How'd that come to be?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I'll tell you how it came to be. It was
nineteen seventy eight and I was doing stand up for
twenty minutes. This is how different the time. And I
needed an agent, and like a wacko, I walked up
and down Sunset with my composite eight by ten. One.
I'm holding a briefcase because everyone, you know, wants to
(25:57):
cast a giant Jewish accountant. One. I'm hitch hiking, Oh yeah,
oh yeah, hitch hiking on the road with my shirt
open and my book hanging out like I'm like, I'm
about to break my water. I will send it to you,
you know. And I'm walking up and down and I'm
(26:19):
literally going into agencies. There were no security, there were
no double locked doors. And I walked into the Beverly
Hecked agency on sunset and I would do stick, you know.
I would go up to receptionists and I would go,
what if Cosby was a pilot and she she would
(26:39):
press the red button under the desk and the police
would come. But literally I would walk in. You know.
It's just I was out. I wanted it so bad.
So I'm in a Beverly h Heck was in those days,
in the early eighties, late seventies. She was kind of
in the middle. She had a little boutique agency. And
I walk in and I'm doing you know, I have
(27:03):
a voice like fog horn, leghorn, you know, so everywhere,
so I hear someone yell from a closed door.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Who the hell is so freaking loud out there?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And that was Betterly And the receptionist his name was
Doug Warner, and he became a manager, and he was
twenty one at the time, and he said, I'm working
on it. I'm getting him out. And I opened the
door like a Waco and she's with the graphic artists
and the label from the Elo new album and they're
at that table and they were looking. In those days,
(27:34):
you couldn't say get me a giant Arab. You couldn't
or Abdul as your friend calls him. So I opened
the door and they go, who's that? And I went
to Cosby as a pilot. I'm really beating that to death.
I'm so sorry, and they said, hey, you know, and
(27:59):
of course I I was very far from a model,
but as you could see, the shot is really back
and they put me into turban like, you know, have
you ever held the machete? And I was like, of course,
you know. I mean I was a latch key kid
in you know, in the suburbs, and believe it or not,
(28:19):
that is a crazy story and that's that's how it happened.
And I was on the back of it and there
was a huge poster on on Sunset and uh, you know,
I was a giant Arab, you know, holding you know,
next to a lamp with a genie coming out.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Oh, I know it. Yeah, I love Elo. I'm getting
the sense you're not an Eelo fan, not not really
I nor.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Did the photo shoot help me with the ladies? It is,
you know, more and more lonely years and a lot
of banking.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, I just love that little that little fact about
you in front of you. Okay, so you will never
guess where I had my first job. I promise you'll
never guess Vose art gallery. No, yeah, so tell me
the story I.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Should have gone in earlier. When were you there?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
This would have been nineteen ninety seven. I was home
from college and I wanted I was an art history
major at Cornell. I wanted a summer job. I worked
there sort of like cataloging.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I do believe this, I know.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I couldn't when I saw this. I couldn't believe it either,
because I don't know if you know this. That gallery
is never visited, like it's always empty. We would get
maybe a visitor a day.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Ye you know.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's the Family Owed Gallery. It's the oldest art gallery
in the country, but it's very small, precious. It's on
Newberry Street. It's beautiful, but it's it's not like heavily trafficked. Yeah,
so how did you meet your wife there?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Oh? Gosh, it's I love art and I was I
was on a layover from doing a comedy tour in
in Boston. And I was on my way to the tents,
you know, the melody tents right out like in Cohasset, Massachusetts,
and and I was I was working with Joan Rivers
that week, one of my heroes. And I was walking
(30:27):
around and I really like art, and I'm not that
much into American folk art. I like the ones, you know,
the big woman eating fruit. That's kind of I think,
whatever whatever category that would be. And so I walked in,
and you know, she's quite a bit younger, and I said,
(30:47):
is your daddy here? And uh? And I started walking in,
you know, doing my ridiculous stick.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
So she works there, she was.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
She was working there, she was, yes, I'm sorry, okay,
the facts. And she was working there, and you know,
I was hacking it up. You know. There was like
an original a picture, a painting, a portrait of George Washington,
you know, and I like, I love Barbara Bush, really hacky,
hacky ship, you know, stuff for she.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
And did she know who you were?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Oh no, she did not.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
She thought I was Kramer.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Stop it, are you serious?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I want to show you this right now? No, have
you ever been mistaken for Michael Richards.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yesterday? Yes?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Okay, con continue, continue this.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
This is amazing and uh so uh that So I
played it. I played it like I was because it
was a much bigger show. I'm not gonna lie. I'm
so I'm so lonely, see so lonely, you know, Yes,
you know, I went.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I went right into it the door.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And so, you know, we talked a little bit, and
you know, it all felt and sounded cliche because you know,
I'm the older guy and she's young and lovely and
there's a brain. And I was like, I have no shot,
and she went, you're absolutely right, you know. So I left.
I took a brochure and I said, maybe I'll buy
(32:26):
the milk can next to the lavender. And I went
up the street. And I was going through a little
bit of a of a head case at the time
in my life with relationships and you know, just got
out of a divorce and really struggling emotionally. You know,
never wanted to repeat how I grew up and and
(32:50):
I you know, I fell into it. That's okay. So
I was going. So I went up the street and
I bought this other big portrait that is really when
I look at it now, it's really oddly depressing. It's
a woman lying in bed, not naked but covered and
her she's it's not a great position where you know
(33:12):
she's either blissfully aware or she's odeed.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Okay, I can't.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Because the eyes, you know, one eye is a little
it's a little sammy, you know, it's a little like that.
And she's holding a communion wafer.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Then there's a glass of wine next to her. So
it's all the things that put my issue with women,
how I don't believe, I don't like religion, and how
I've stopped drinking. It was all in one picture. So
instead of buying you know, the Confederate flag with a
guy with no teeth holding it at vose, I buy
(33:56):
the uh, you know, my demise, and and it hung
in the in the club forever, and you know people
would go, God, what, that's such a donner, and he's like,
he bought that the day we met. Yeah, yeah, that's
what I got to put in a time out and
back in the ball pit. But we met, and you know,
we were both kind of you know, in a relationship
(34:18):
at the time, and you know, we we just kind
of we we were texting. It wasn't right, but it
had to be. And here we are, almost sixteen and
a half years later.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Believe or not.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
She just got her driver's license. But she's forty, you know,
but I'm sixty four. So it's you know, it's but
it works. I mean, it's what I you know, I
had ten minutes of material about it in the beginning,
which was my way of dealing with my uncomfortableness about it.
But she's got an incredible sense of humor, and I've
(34:56):
never felt more comfortable in my life. You know, if
it was ten years earlier, she would have put up
with my shit for five minutes. And there was still
stuff that she helped me get through and deal with,
not by holding up a mirror, but by you know,
(35:19):
holding my hand through some of it.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I went through a lot of loss when I started
dating her. I lost my brother, my best friend, and
my father within like a two year period, just out
of the blue. And then I lost my other brother,
and then my best friend's wife passed ironically, And I
have seven incredible god children in my life that live
(35:44):
in Vegas and helped me at the club and work
at the club. So it's been a full circle. But
it was just a real ship storm, you know when
I had met her, and it was one that wasn't
created by my doing like it was in the past.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, that I was just like, wow.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You know, this is tough stuff to get through. Luckily,
I'm not using because so many people need me and
I need me, and you know we're very different and
scary similar as well.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, but I got very lucky.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
It's definitely, you know, I'm way way out of my league.
And I told her, I say, I tell her all
the time, and this is comforting. I say, when I
pass on and I go to the big casino in the.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Sky, because that's how I think is up there.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I always say, you'll have your whole life ahead of you,
which is great. You'll be able to, you know, find
some when you really want, and you'll have a little money.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So I've also interviewed for this podcast Kelly Rizzo Okay.
She was she is the widow of Bob Saggatt okay,
and they were several decades apart. Yeah, and it was
something apparently he talked to her a lot about like
I'm gonna you know, you're going to be single at
(37:06):
some point, Yeah, because I'm so much older.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, I want you.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
To prepare for that. She didn't realize she'd have to
prepare for that, like's years into her marriage.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, such a wonderful guy. Yeah, And I talk about
it a little too much, and I think it's a
downer for her. You know, I said, I'm not going
to be here forever, and then she leaves the room.
I check out where she is on my phone. She's
at party City. So I think a lot. I think
(37:36):
a lot of it is really is really perception.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
She's planning.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah. Yeah, but it's like, you know, it's like I
want to talk about it. You know, it's weird. It's
like when you find someone that you love so much
that you've never been that that you know, having that.
I don't know what it is, and I don't want
to overanalyze it, but it's like you always you know,
it's like your children, you want them, Okay, that's all. Yeah,
(38:03):
that's all you care about.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, And you know, I talked.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
About it a lot, you know, before we got married.
I'm like, you know, you have to understand, you know,
you're going to have to reintroduce yourself to me every
week eventually, you know, because it's it's not pretty, you know,
it is it and I'm you know, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, I love the story of how you met. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
She will not believe this about VOS.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I couldn't believe it. I've never met anyone who even
knows that place.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's so amazing. It makes it even more special. Were
you fired for stealing or what?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, I went back to school. I grew up in
andover Massachusetts. I grew up dancing at Boston Bala, so
I was in the city all the time, and I
thought that's where I'll just get my summer job. And
then I went back and I was just back at VOS.
I had a birthday in February, and I brought my
husband and my two best friends my son Gunkles to
(39:01):
Vose just to show them, like, really these were.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
It's a cool little street and a cool little building.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
It is.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I love that story.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
How were you?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, let's get into it. Let's get into mental health.
I'm better. I had a break down, a nervous breakdown
in twenty twenty one, and did not know I had
been living with severe anxiety, okay, for about twenty years,
compounded by the news, compounded by my job and politics.
(39:47):
But really, I mean I had always been very anxious,
and then when I had my son, it went to
eleven and I didn't know that I was doing this,
but I was catastrophizing on a loop all day long
about the worst thing that's going to happen. It's going
to happen, and I would vividly see it in my head,
(40:09):
and it would always involve my son, something awful happening
to my son. And it got to the point where
I felt like, if I do it, that will prevent it.
If I don't do this ritual, it's going to happen.
So my anxiety was keeping me safe, I thought, but
obviously it wasn't and it wasn't rational, and it was
actually really really unhealthy. So when I had this breakdown,
(40:33):
it was like my body said, stop doing this to me,
stop doing this to us. And then I got therapy
and I went on medication, and so I've only been
learning about what I was doing for about four years,
and I am better, but I still struggle. I'm always
(40:54):
going to struggle with anxiety. And sometimes when I think
I'm great, it'll come back and be like, Hi, you
haven't beaten me. You can't beat me. So it's hard.
It's hard, and the news doesn't help. Yeah, yeah, because
this is the other thing someone would tell me, you know,
the odds of like something awful happening in this way
(41:18):
are really low, and I'd say, really, I just covered
four of them, like sure, you know, so I had
this other effect of thinking there were only bad things
because that's all I.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Cover, Yeah, exactly, which is.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
So messed up. And you know, obviously had had a
big effect on my brain, and my brain feels a
little broken now. But this is why I talk about
it because I wish, I wish I knew what I
had been doing, and I wish someone had given it
language that would have alerted me to get help earlier,
(41:55):
because twenty years in it's really hard to unlearn some
of these habits.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Now, did you you know I never heard that turn catastrophizing. Yeah,
so God, that like rang a bell for me, because
I've done a ton of that, and my anxiety, you know,
quadrupled when I became a father, and that's all I
really ever wanted, And boy, I could, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Just I can you know you know what I'm talking
about you for?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Did you have a lot of that? You must have
had it as a kid, right, I did. Were you
with the ballet?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, I was at Boston Ballet. Ballet was tough because
it wasn't like the fun dancing where you wear the
costumes and like. It was really really tough. But I
also moved a lot, and I was constantly waiting for
a change. What's going to happen to disrupt the stability
of my life in the moment? Yea, my parents have
gotten divorced remarried. I moved like eight or nine times
(42:53):
as a kid, so I was always the new kid, introducing, auditioning,
becoming whoever they needed me to be. But I was
also on tenderhooks all the time. What's coming next?
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Oh my honey? Wow?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
So, but.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I thought all of this was normal, Like imagining some
driving my car, right, and I'm driving next to train
tracks and I'm thinking, Okay, if a train comes and
derails and comes into the road, what would I do?
These are absurd things to think about. But if my
brain isn't doing that, I would think I'm gonna be
(43:34):
surprised by something awful, and at least I can avoid
the surprise part of it.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
So you can't win.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You can win where exactly constant. It was constant at
its worst, it was twenty four seven. I'd go to
bed doing it and wake up doing it, and then
I would do these rituals, like where I'd have to
to be able to send my kid to school, which
is down the street he walks. Yeah, I'd have to
(44:04):
look him in the eyes. I'd have to make sure
we had eye contact. I'd have to say I love
you to him. He'd have to look right, like good
enough for me to feel okay. If something was off,
I'd have to do it again.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
So there's some like compulsions that were created out of
this anxiety as well.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah, yeah, boy,
that's tough. Does any of that stem from not ever
feeling good enough or the anxiety that you were You know,
sometimes the dysfunction we're raised with is our comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yes, and that's all we know. And my therapist, I
have great parents, but my therapist is like, just because
we're talking about some of the traumas of your childhood
doesn't make them bad parents, like because that was hard
for me exactly. I didn't want to think of them
that way. But listen, they weren't perfect and I went
through some stuff. Yeah, of course, and it's important to
look back at that. That's why therapy is so great
(44:58):
because I never would have told told you that I
was doing anything based on my childhood. And of course
I am.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
We all are, well, well, we all are. But you know,
it's always that thing. Is that nature or nurture? You know?
How much is chemical? How much of it is my wiring? Yes,
and it's I think sometimes it's both or one is
greater than the other. I mean, you know, I had
a lot of love from parents that despised themselves.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, so what kind of love is it? You know?
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Far greater than a lot of people, I know, you know,
and not near the trauma that you hear about her
or anything like that. But it's different when you're taught
how to love by people that don't love themselves, because
it's very superficial. It's given, you know, in ways that
may not be the healthiest because they're not in that spot,
(46:04):
you know. But once I became a parent, and you
know I was a helicopter parent trying to make up
for all the stuff that I felt, you know, wasn't
done correctly. And I you know a lot of my
parenting was grounded in fear, you know, and I so
(46:25):
relate to that.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
And so what do you do? What do you do
about about your anxiety?
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Well, you know a lot of my anxiety is depression fueled.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
OK.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
So I'm on meds for depression that I've been on
for a long long time that have helped immensely. That
I didn't get on until after I had stopped using,
which is twenty seven years. And it wouldn't have worked
anyway if I was using and on the meds that
doesn't work even though people think it does, it doesn't
as well as it could. And I know it sounds corny,
(47:03):
but I had to get to a place of trust
within our little village. You know. It's like I can't
explain the world to my kids. I know you can't.
There's no explanation. It's so out of control. But I
know my anxiety will just hinder them from dealing with
(47:25):
it better than I am, right, and I'm honest about it,
and I'm really out about my emotions, you know, and
I was my whole time with my kids. I think
the honesty of when I was struggling or I wish
I could do better, or it's important they see a
parent fail. Yes, they see a parent have to start over.
(47:47):
It's like what I always say. I always wish that
my kids could have seen me in the days where
I struggled artistically or career wise, wherever I saw, you know,
I was I. You know, I didn't always have this house.
I didn't know things. I started out in apartments much
(48:10):
smaller than yours. And I wish they could have seen that,
just to get a better idea of what life is
really about. So you know, anxiety runs through this family. Yeah,
a lot of it is I really believe wiring and
chemical and hereditary and uh you know they were raised
(48:35):
by two parents that that both had anxiety too. There
was a little cleanup I think where that's where that's concerned.
And and I try to you know, try to be
you know better at it's it's it's funny how a
lease in my case and I can tell in your case,
how children and when you love being that parent and
(48:57):
not everyone's wired for it, you know, I have buddies
that I talked to them about parenting. They look at
me like, you know, I'm from another planet, because not
everyone's wired that way. Yeah, this is really what you want.
But look how it's made us really deal with our
own crap that we've had for so long because we
(49:17):
don't want to pass it on because they.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Don't totally, you know, and it's it's still a stroke totally.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
It's why I'm doing the work.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
So clud of that you can do this because you know,
you're so admired, you're so looked up to. You're such
a force in journalism, and a lot of it is
what you bring to it. I love that you that
you you're really your own voice in what you have
to say, and there are things you have been said
that you have said, what I've watched you. That's that's
(49:45):
made me go wow, okay, yeah, and you know I
didn't look at that before, and I really just in
what you do.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Just you know, I admire that and we need people
like you talking about stuff like this. Thank you because
we always feel alone.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
I know, and I did too, because I'd always looked
at my colleagues at the news and thought how are
they doing that? How are they so healthy? And I
thought maybe they're not. They're I don't know what they're right.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, and I'm going to tell you who's really sick
over coming? No, no, but I mean, I mean yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's what anxiety and depression does. It wants us
to fill alone. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
It's a liar and it lies to you.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, it's like I would beg my parents. Let's try help,
Let's try this. If you don't like it, you don't
have to do it. But when the depression and the
bipolarity and the shame and the guilt, the more infesters,
it makes your decisions for you. You have no voice,
(50:48):
and depression is like sleep another forty hours, you'll be fine.
You now pick up that drink or that thing.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
What's the big?
Speaker 1 (50:56):
What is there to be clear about? You don't need clarity,
so it's right. The longer you wait, the more it
just becomes your being, you know, it's that alien thing.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Totally. Well, I'm really I'm glad we had this talk
and me too. Yeah, I really did really enjoyed this.
I have a quick lightning round to end on a
lighter note.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Okay, it's not math is it.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
There's no math.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Okay, there's no math.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Who are people at the Bible? Okay? I should probably
wait for the question.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Well, first was have you ever been compared to or
mistaken for Michael Richards? And you answered that yes?
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
The second is Matt Rife or Nate BARGHETSI.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Boy, this is tough because I hate to ever that
I'm not that familiar with Matt.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Okay, he's not for you, he's for like young women.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Oh you don't mean to like live with I thought
we were. Boy, this is tough. I have to say
I'm not that familiar with with Matt, though I know
the kid's on fire, and I know.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
He's he does crowd work.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
That's his things, A.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
Lot of crowd work. Yeah, more sit ups than me
for sure.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Cute, but uh, you know, I mean I don't know
Nate's You know, Nate's a very very special talent.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
He is, right, I really like his his stuff.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's just is he nice?
Speaker 1 (52:37):
I've only met him once? Okay, And the only thing
he said, ish could you please pull my car around?
I was I wasn't dressed great. I only met him once,
super kind, super nice and everyone seems to like you.
I'm happy and I'm happy for Matt and these. You know,
I know how tough it is.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
So anyone that's doing it, I uh, you know, kudos.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, Albert Brooks or Billy Crystal.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Oh boy, that's brutal.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
I know, I know it is.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
I love the boy. These are tough. Quick go back
to rife. Boy, Well, I would say, Billy God, I
don't know. They both had such an influence on me.
You know, these are guys that coming up I would
see and I you know, I'd want to put my
head in the oven.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, you know, because they're just like, well.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Why am I doing this? Boy? Can I say a tie?
Speaker 2 (53:31):
You can't. It's intentionally hard. I love them both too.
I'm a big Albert Brooks fan, but but Billy too.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Yeah, no question. His documentary of Brooks wasn't that great?
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Defending My Life? Oh my god? Oh so good? Yeah,
and so rich with little details and the rhiners and.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Oh my god, so good, so amazing.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Everyone should go, that's a tie for me, I get it.
Roast or stand up special.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Boy, You're you're really hitting my insecurity. I love that,
uh for me or for other things for you for you, well,
I don't. I don't think I should do either. No,
nor should I be involved in either. You're a yeah,
I know, you know my you know, my thing was
(54:26):
just to have a talk show and just sit down
with people and kidd its and into it and just
you know, like like like a hundred years ago, I
stood in for Rick Dy's I don't know that that
had a little in the nineties, a little talk show
and uh and it took a week off and I
went in and I was you know, I pushed a lot,
(54:47):
and I was much too, you know, because I was
so desperate to land that that would have done it differently.
But my thing is just to get out with real people.
And so I guess I guess the roast and then
I was on one of the roasts. But I you know,
I didn't love what I did and it wasn't that great.
But and a special you know, it's got to be
(55:08):
I mean, it's it's got to be really I think
material driven more than that. That's up my strength. You know.
If I could like walk into a house in the
Midwest unannounced and just at the like, like my thing
was having dinner with America. Yeah, just sitting down with
regular people.
Speaker 3 (55:28):
Yeah, you know, and go and you know, letting that
would show.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Yeah, I just wanted to do it. You know, here's
a here's a nine foot insecured you coming to your.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Home, what do you announced?
Speaker 1 (55:40):
What do you make? And you just knock on the
door and you know, you hope they don't hurt you show. Yeah,
I've always wanted to do something like Yeah, I just
thought it would be good just to just and I
mean literally put me, you know in the mix. That's
that's where I that's where I thrive. You know, I've
never been a Hollywood person. I've never been the yick guy.
(56:04):
You know. I've always worked so so hard and loved
what I do, but always knew my territory and and
that to me, I mean, if I could just unscripted,
you know, that's that's my round. You know, roast battles,
all that stuff. That's that's all great, but it's not this.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah, you know, I think we need to make this
show happen. Okay, Brad, Brad Garrett's coming for dinner?
Speaker 1 (56:28):
How about breaking Brad?
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Love? It even better? Even better with Brad?
Speaker 1 (56:35):
What's that smell? It could it could be like, boy,
I smell you know, I smell meat loathing and sim
you know, to be allan. You know, can I come in?
Speaker 2 (56:53):
You know, we need to make this show happen. Okay,
last question, This question is a very important to me culturally.
When is iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Iced coffee season?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Fucked twenty four seven for me?
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yes, correct answer? Congratulations? Oh yeah, correct answer.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Coffee is my last advice And you know, I just
I just love it perfectly.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, anyway, I liked you. Brad Garrett's coming up in
a new Pixar movie called Elio saying that right, Elliot.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
You said it exactly right.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
He's in the new Jason Rightman SNL film Saturday Night.
I can't wait to see that. Thank you so much
for coming on. This was really I loved this.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
Thank you meant a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Next week on Off the Cop, Kelly Rizzo, this guy
messaged me and was like, hey, Bob Sagat's.
Speaker 4 (57:51):
Gonna send you a DM and I was like, oh why.
I was just not interested at first, like it was
not my type, too old, but I was It's like,
that's just weird.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart podcasts as
part of the Reasoned Choice Network. I'm your host, Si Cupp.
Editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Si Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If
you like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever
you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes
every Wednesday
If I could like walk into a house in the
Midwest unannounced and just just sitting down with regular people. Yeah, no,
here's here's a nine foot insecured you coming to your
home and you just knock on the door. What's that smell?
You could be that boy, I smell meat loafing aim.
(00:24):
You have to be like Allen, you know? Can I
come in?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I love talking to comedians because I feel like to
be a really good comedian you have to be really
self aware. And I think my least favorite people to
talk to are people who can't see what everybody else sees,
like do you know yourself at all? And comedians know thyselves.
There are no pretenses or veneers. And my next guest
(00:56):
is so funny but also so thoughtful and lovely. You
know him from Everybody Loves Raymond, the Emmy nominated film Gleason,
where he played Jackie Gleason till Death the Night at
the Museum Movies. He performs regularly at his own comedy
club at the MGM Grand because he's a baller who
has their own comedy club. It's Brad Garrett. Welcome to
(01:17):
off the cup. Brad. How are you good? I'm better now?
That you're here.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Great to be here. I feel a little self aware.
Is it okay?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Your hair looks great?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Thank you. Part of it's mine and part of it
was donated to me.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It was a gift.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Actually, I took the hair off my dog before I
ate it. So it's Alicia. It was time. It was
time for him. He was ready, had a shelte. Good
to see you, honey, Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm so happy to talk to you because we've been
like Twitter or Instagram friends for a few years now.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Have you been getting my dms and everything? You're okay
with the pictures?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Nothing untoward was sent. Just want everyone to know.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Good.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
There's so much I want to get into with you.
I want to start. I want to start with your childhood.
Were you funny as a kid?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know? I think, yeah, I was? I was. I
think I you know. I was raised by uh, loving
parents that really struggled mentally, okay, and my mom suffered
from extreme depression. My father was a wonderful man and
(02:42):
really really my hero growing up, but he was bipolar
and we didn't know that until much later in life.
We just thought he was eccentric and yeah, fun and
you know, wanted his son to be his wingman and
all great things when I was growing up. But I
think when you're raised with parents that struggle no matter
what it is, I think we feel like it's our
(03:04):
job to entertain.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Them or make them happy, make them laugh.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Them happy, fix the problem.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
There's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, it is. It is. And you know, my mom
was very critical, and it was like she didn't even
want me in the home movies, which every time she
would think she always said, you know what, good audition,
We're going another way. And she would try to cast
(03:33):
other children in my room growing up, which she heardened
me made this armor. No, but I think you know,
my father was incredibly funny and I got a lot
of that from him. But I was bullied a lot
growing up because I was like six feet to twelve.
I had no athletic ability. I looked and this is
(03:57):
a compliment, I looked like Liza Minelli as I was
growing up. No, I really did. I'll send you some
picture they're touching them please. But I had, you know,
I had eyes that looked like I was crying off
my mascarra every time I went to school. I just
I had that looked like when I look at the pictures,
there's only three pictures of me from my childhood. One
(04:19):
was in court. I look like I have three jobs.
I looked like I could be making iPhones in China.
When I look at the small, small pictures of me,
I look at I go what was I going through?
But it was a lot of people really trying hard
to do their best. Yeah, and you know there was
(04:39):
there was a lot of you know, dysfunction.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But did you have siblings?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I had two older brothers, quite a bit older than
I'm the youngest of three, and my oldest brother was
nine years older and then the middle was six years older.
We have the same mom, different dads, okay, and we
were as close as we could be. You know. The
key was to get out as soon as we could
(05:04):
of the house and kind of do our own, our
own thing and it. You know, it's so difficult when
people you love and you're closed with struggle and the
refuse help.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh, is that what happened? They didn't want to get
They really didn't want the help. That's of a generation,
I think it is.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
That's why I love talking about this stuff, you know,
because of people like yourself and you know it's now important,
you know, and that it's okay, you know, to not
be okay as they say, I know that's so clich Yeah,
it's true, and it's good to know that people do,
you know, face a lot of challenges, and I think
more so than ever because of this crazy world word
(05:45):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And I want to talk about mental health a lot
with you because that's the point of this. But so
you you go to college but you drop out right
to do comedy.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yes, well I was. I was also encouraged to leave. Yeah,
the school was like, you're you're not cut out for this,
and I you know, I busted my behind to be
like a strong B student. And growing up I really
didn't have friends, you know, a lot of them. Some
I paid and they were right by the house and hunk.
(06:18):
But my teachers were kind of like my See. I
knew early on that if you if you make the
teachers laugh when you're the class clown, they have something.
It's easy to make the other kids laugh, especially in
public school because you know, so I think when I
made my teachers laugh, I knew that there was really
(06:39):
something there. And early on my teachers really went like
you got to get in the theater. I mean I
was doing stand up at like sixteen, I was doing
bar Mitzvah's and it was really you know, it's horrific.
I don't know if you've ever tried to make rabbis laugh,
but it's it was hell.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
You had encouragement and people recognize that you were talented young.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I had encouraged it. My parents were incredibly encouraging. You know.
My dad really got it. And I think my mom
was hoping that, you know, if if I got famous,
that maybe she could get a job. You know, I
think it was kind of her thing. You know. It's
like when I started opening for different acts in Vegas,
(07:24):
I would have my parents, you know, would I would
have my mom and her third husband, my stepdad. I
would have him in the audience. I was opening for
Sinatra for a while and last part of his life,
you know, when he was God bless him, I mean,
the greatest, but he was like does summer Win does
a tray up? Bob Bob? So now, yeah, I was
(07:48):
just so happy for the gig. And I grew up
on that music, so that was like it was incredible,
But less Frank, he had bigger things to remember, and
he called me Greg Barrett for two years while opening
for him, you know. And Frank isn't the guy you
stick down and correct.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
You don't correct Frank, you don't.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
You know. And I went to his buddy Julie and
I went, you know, we've been on the road five months.
Maybe you can tell Frank that I'm Brad, you know.
And he's like, you want the gig or not? You
don't like working with Frank. And it became that. So
I was Greg, and my mom from the audience was like,
his name is Brad?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
His name?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
This happened in Vegas, okay? And I would take her
and I would talk about my mom and my aunt.
She would say that isn't true. His mother I never
you know. So there was eventually a restraining order at
the Desert Inn to keep my mom from and then
she hit on Steve Lawrence when I opened for Steve
(08:53):
and Edie.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And she's like a character.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Oh, she was wonderful. She told Sammy Davis that not every.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Night is bad Duke my god.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah it was, I gotta tell you, but but I
felt better if I did an invite her. Yeah, was
a wonderfully complicated woman.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So at twenty three, you go on Carson, one of
the youngest comedians ever to go on that show. What
how did you take all of that in?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well, you know, it was, you know, it's it's kind
of hard to explain. I mean it was you know,
you're behind that curtain you grow up watching, and you
know it was, you know, my stand up until I
really found myself. It was very you know, pedestrian and
really kind of hackey and just nothing really where you're going,
(09:58):
wow this, you know, and uh, it was okay. But
I had one Star search and Ed McMahon hosted that
winning star search, and you know I would always get
ice for Ed and sneak it into his trailer and
I would open up the salve and he would tell
me stories. And so he helped, I think, get me
(10:20):
on the Tonight Show. And I did a handful of him,
and you know, it really really helped because in those days,
you know, there were five channels and if you did
decent would you know, I think my key was timing
in cadence over material.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Suit.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, and then I just like when I was opening
for the big acts and they never want to see
the opening act. I left my material and I just
started to roast the crowd.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
You know, rejection anger. And then Frank's audience, you know,
you take went to the melon if you roast the
wrong guy. John Gotti in the front row in Atlantic City.
I didn't know who John Gotty was. This was ninety one.
He was in the front row in a top hat,
(11:14):
dark glasses and like a white shirt and tails. And
I went, oh, my god, it's mister peanut, you know,
just joking around. So I go backstage and.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
You said that to his face.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Well he was in the audience. I didn't know it
was John Gotti, you know. And I go backstage and
Jilly was like, you have to hide. So they put me,
you know, they said, don't come out until we let
you know. John Gotti went backstage, and I'm sure there
was gunplay and him Frank played I don't know crazy
eights or whatever they did. But the point is I
(11:48):
started busting the balls of Frank's people that were in
the front row, and they loved it. And you know,
it's kind of like Rickles on steroids. Yeah, and so
now in this, you know, and this what I do
at my club is just you know, mostly crowd work
and improv, which I love and.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That's my thing, and that's really come back, Like crowd
work is so popular now.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, it's all I've really, I mean, I mean
never done, you know, And yeah, yeah, like Gray, you know,
Ray and I worked together for a while and he
would say, why Kurt, you suit down for five minutes
and right, just right, and I'm like, look you right,
and I'm great. Now. He's really amazing. I mean, he's
(12:38):
really funny. He's a great writer. That's never been my thing.
I'd rather go out without a net and I get
moored easy. And you know, we spent many many years
on the road together and having a great time and
working the casinos together. Yeah, but I think there was
a time where the casinos were really worried, especially during
the cancel culture, and I went, you know, this is
(13:00):
what I do and this is what it is, and
you know you're not going to change at sixty four
and I love doing this. And yeah, that it did
a whole full circle. And now people seem to really
want the edge because they're so tired of hearing what
they can laugh at what they can't laugh at. Yeah,
and you know, you have to have a career to
(13:21):
get canceled. So thank god I can't get canceled.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You've had a career. Stop.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I'm working the food court, Essie. I love to have
you and the kid come by. We got balloons. He
can color the menu.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Okay, So you mentioned Ray is landing a sitcom, especially
a successful one, the dream for comedians or do you
prefer stand up?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, you know, I always felt that acting was I mean,
I was always doing stand up. But to me, acting was,
you know, the holy grail. That was the brass room
for me, you know, and get on that show. I
mean I auditioned and a couple times, and I knew
how lucky I was, you know, a halfway through the
(14:09):
first season you go board. The chemistry of the cast
was so organic, and that's really the key. After you
have great writers. You got to have the writers. And
this group was just about, you know, as good as
they get. And there was that synergy of just everything popping,
and Ray knew what the show is about, and Phil
(14:30):
knew how to create it around Ray, and it was
just one of those things. And I got lucky. You know,
you got to you gotta be lucky too. You got
to work hard, but when that audition comes, you got
to be prepared. I was never some I mean I
could have done stand up my whole life and been
happy because I still love it. You know. It wasn't like, well,
I'm going to try stand up and maybe that'll get
(14:52):
me a sitcom because you know, like for a while
they were giving people on TikTok that had two million
followers a pilot, and yeah, you know what happens with
that because they don't have a skill set, they just
have something that went viral. Right, So back in those days,
you know, we really worked on our craft. I was
an acting class since I was eighteen, So it was
(15:13):
something that I always, you know, felt I wanted to do,
not something that would necessarily crack for me.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So Raymond Goes ninety six to two thousand and five,
Seinfeld was eighty nine to ninety eight, Fraser Is ninety
three to two thousand and four, Friends ninety four to
two thousand and four, Will and Grace ninety eight to
two thousand and six. King of Queens ninety eight to
two thousand and seven. You were airing concurrently with the
biggest sitcoms on the planet, including yours. Yeah, well, what
(15:45):
was that? I mean, it's such a high time for sitcoms.
What was that like? And were there like any rivalries?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
You know, there really weren't rivalries. I mean to be honest.
You know, Friends and Seinfeld they were the juggernauts. You know,
we were very different show. Those shows were really pushing
the envelope and friendship super sexy and really funny and
yeah and Frasier was you know, that was such a
high bar. We were doing something really kind of different.
(16:14):
That kind of went back to, you know, that old
vibe of what sitcoms were.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Like all in the family.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, well, I mean to me, that's, you know, nothing
better than that shob right in my opinion, But I
think that's what, you know, that was what I think
everyone wanted to strive for that family unit that you know,
had no choice but to be together and how do
we navigate that? And you know, Phil ran the show
(16:42):
where like when he would break a story literally the
writer's room every Monday, he would go around the table
to the writers and he would go, you know, what
happened this weekend? What happened this weekend? And almost all
the time something would be hatched in that room it's
it's like the luggage episode. It was a big, a
(17:02):
big episode for the show where you know, Ray and
Dever just argued over who's going to put away that
last piece of luggage?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Are you referring to the suitcase that you haven't moved
in three weeks? Is that the suitcase to which.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
You are referring?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Why couldn't you move it? Why couldn't you move it?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
All right?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You are not going to the airport with a grocery bag.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Take the suitcase. You know, that little pettiness of marriage
and those kind of things. You know, it all happened
the thing with my my lucky suit you know when
I went to interview with the FBI. You know, this
is something that happened to one of the writers fathers,
you know, and it just it just comes from a
(17:49):
good place. That being said, you know, we knew who
the big boys were, you know when we watched Seinfeld
and Friends the way anybody else did, But there weren't
the real you know, a real satisfaction of airing during
that golden era and be able to hold our.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Own Oh totally yeah, And you very memorable part on
Seinfeld the mechanic.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
There's really nothing wrong on the inside. Well, the ship
Nove is loose. You know about that?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
No, I haven't noticed.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Have you been picking at it?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Have I been picking at it?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
No? You know, just wear and tear, wearing tear.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I see love it. But I've heard tell me if
I'm wrong. I've heard that that was a tough set
because they were so big and coming on for an
episode or two was tough. How did you find that?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You know, I found it incredibly easy. Actually, we shot
on location. I read for Jerry And.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Did you know Jerry before?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, No, no, I didn't. I didn't even know Ray before.
Oh okay, but no, Ray, yeah, yeah, and we heard
when I was up for his brother. You know, Ray
was like, not the guy from Star Search. And you know, honestly,
you know I get it because you know, I'm on
Star Search going you know, what if Cosby was a pilot,
(19:12):
you know, give me this stuff. You know, obviously before
the yeah right, obviously before he found out he really
wasn't a pilot. Now, yeah, so I was doing stuff
like that. You know that scared a lot of comics.
It scared me, but you know I needed the money.
So you know, My point is, it's you know, I
(19:34):
had to find my way physically and really every other way.
I wasn't the character they were looking for for Ray's brother,
you know, because Ra's brother, really, you know, was an
NYPD cop under cover. They kind of wanted like a
Danny DeVito type of scrappy, smaller guy that wasn't intimidating
(19:58):
to Ray because the line everybody loves Raymond is what
his cop brother said in real life to him when
Ray won the Ace Award. You know, he came home
and he looked at the award and he said that line.
When did he get this?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Oh, that's an award your brother got for his sports column.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Never ends for Raymond, Robbie, Everybody loves Raymond. I go
to work, people shoot at me. Why goes to work?
People do the wave? When he sits down, has a
hot dog, doodles on a piece of paper, they gimme
a trophy. So I knew the writing was so great
(20:39):
when I read the pilot, and I had trouble getting
in because they didn't see me as and I got that,
but I said, just let me read. I have a
different take of this guy, and it was, you know,
I had to go against my size by not playing
him too e or I mean like from year one
a year two. I had to bump it up a
bit because and you know, pivot a little because it
(21:03):
was able two beaten where you're two. You know, it
was like it was like, you know, he's got to
be a contender. It's he's a contender, you know. Yeah,
we didn't find him at a carnival, you know, rightful
way of putting things. So as an actor, I use
the thing is like in my head, I was raised
an only child, and they forgot to tell Robert. So
(21:26):
this is something I tried to carry.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know, it's so great. How'd you come up with that?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It was just, you know, I knew I had to
find something a fine line of I haven't given up
in life, I've given up on them.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, okay, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So I was able to celebrate even the small things
that happened. And then later in the show, I discovered, wait,
I have something that none of the men in this
family have. My freedom. That was before I got married
to the wonderful Monica. So but before for that, I
had that freedom. And the way the writers wrote it
is that was something that filled and Ray envied my
(22:06):
social life, me being able to come home when I want,
eat dinner when I want. So they found that nugget
to keep me on life support.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You know, yeah, I get it. I want to talk
about a movie. I absolutely adore music and lyrics. Oh
really love it?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Do you have cable? Oh no, I had, I had
a lot of That was a fun movie.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I mean it's got such great heart. I love the music.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, it was a ball.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It looked fun like first Drew and and Hugh just
look fun amazing. Yeah, and you play an agent of
this like aging sort of wham, like the artist just
like struggling to get him on like county fairs exactly. Well,
it's just so great. I hope other people have seen it,
(23:05):
and if they haven't, go see it because it's just
a great movie. It looked like a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It was a fun one. When they used to do
those rom coms.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I don't know what happened, Yeah, yeah, don't know what.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Happened to that. You know, I think they can do
it now, and even you know, they can keep the
edge that they want to do now. So many of
the of the feature comedies are just they're not out there,
which is just too bad. Hopefully that'll come around.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I agree, there's nothing wrong with a great rom com.
We all love them, even if we're embarrassed to admit it.
We all love a great rom com.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think so. I think so.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's such a great antidote everything else that's going on.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah it is. Well, are you going to quit the
news and maybe do maybe a cooking show?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
See?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Now, have you thought of it?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I would love to quit the news.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
What a time to be doing what you're doing, and
you do it so great.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's really hard, and as we'll discuss, it's not been
great for my mental health. Okay, okay, but we'll get
to that. We'll get to that. Are you big into music?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
You like music?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I am?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
You know. My thing is, you know, I love the
old stuff. I love some of the new stuff. But
you know, I was raised on R and B, and
my dad turned me onto soul music and motown. And
he was a big white guy from the Bronx and
he just had a great, great taste in music and
he so, so I kind of like that genre. But
(24:49):
you know, I went to see Pearl Jam a few
months ago, and I you know, I love Dave Matthews,
and and I wish Neil Diamond would come back, and
and you know, it's I'm all over the place I was.
You know, I love Tony Bennett.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Are you a fan of Elo?
Speaker 1 (25:08):
You know it's interesting to say that.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think you know why I'm asking?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Are they there? Oh? Okay, you know it's it's funny.
I didn't it's it was. It was.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You can say no, but our listeners should know you
were on an album. You are on the back of
an Elo album Discovery from nineteen seventy ninety three.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Isn't that crazy? I was?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, how did that happen? How'd that come to be?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I'll tell you how it came to be. It was
nineteen seventy eight and I was doing stand up for
twenty minutes. This is how different the time. And I
needed an agent, and like a wacko, I walked up
and down Sunset with my composite eight by ten. One.
I'm holding a briefcase because everyone, you know, wants to
(25:57):
cast a giant Jewish accountant. One. I'm hitch hiking, Oh yeah,
oh yeah, hitch hiking on the road with my shirt
open and my book hanging out like I'm like, I'm
about to break my water. I will send it to you,
you know. And I'm walking up and down and I'm
(26:19):
literally going into agencies. There were no security, there were
no double locked doors. And I walked into the Beverly
Hecked agency on sunset and I would do stick, you know.
I would go up to receptionists and I would go,
what if Cosby was a pilot and she she would
(26:39):
press the red button under the desk and the police
would come. But literally I would walk in. You know.
It's just I was out. I wanted it so bad.
So I'm in a Beverly h Heck was in those days,
in the early eighties, late seventies. She was kind of
in the middle. She had a little boutique agency. And
I walk in and I'm doing you know, I have
(27:03):
a voice like fog horn, leghorn, you know, so everywhere,
so I hear someone yell from a closed door.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Who the hell is so freaking loud out there?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And that was Betterly And the receptionist his name was
Doug Warner, and he became a manager, and he was
twenty one at the time, and he said, I'm working
on it. I'm getting him out. And I opened the
door like a Waco and she's with the graphic artists
and the label from the Elo new album and they're
at that table and they were looking. In those days,
(27:34):
you couldn't say get me a giant Arab. You couldn't
or Abdul as your friend calls him. So I opened
the door and they go, who's that? And I went
to Cosby as a pilot. I'm really beating that to death.
I'm so sorry, and they said, hey, you know, and
(27:59):
of course I I was very far from a model,
but as you could see, the shot is really back
and they put me into turban like, you know, have
you ever held the machete? And I was like, of course,
you know. I mean I was a latch key kid
in you know, in the suburbs, and believe it or not,
(28:19):
that is a crazy story and that's that's how it happened.
And I was on the back of it and there
was a huge poster on on Sunset and uh, you know,
I was a giant Arab, you know, holding you know,
next to a lamp with a genie coming out.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Oh, I know it. Yeah, I love Elo. I'm getting
the sense you're not an Eelo fan, not not really
I nor.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Did the photo shoot help me with the ladies? It is,
you know, more and more lonely years and a lot
of banking.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, I just love that little that little fact about
you in front of you. Okay, so you will never
guess where I had my first job. I promise you'll
never guess Vose art gallery. No, yeah, so tell me
the story I.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Should have gone in earlier. When were you there?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
This would have been nineteen ninety seven. I was home
from college and I wanted I was an art history
major at Cornell. I wanted a summer job. I worked
there sort of like cataloging.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I do believe this, I know.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I couldn't when I saw this. I couldn't believe it either,
because I don't know if you know this. That gallery
is never visited, like it's always empty. We would get
maybe a visitor a day.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Ye you know.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's the Family Owed Gallery. It's the oldest art gallery
in the country, but it's very small, precious. It's on
Newberry Street. It's beautiful, but it's it's not like heavily trafficked. Yeah,
so how did you meet your wife there?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Oh? Gosh, it's I love art and I was I
was on a layover from doing a comedy tour in
in Boston. And I was on my way to the tents,
you know, the melody tents right out like in Cohasset, Massachusetts,
and and I was I was working with Joan Rivers
that week, one of my heroes. And I was walking
(30:27):
around and I really like art, and I'm not that
much into American folk art. I like the ones, you know,
the big woman eating fruit. That's kind of I think,
whatever whatever category that would be. And so I walked in,
and you know, she's quite a bit younger, and I said,
(30:47):
is your daddy here? And uh? And I started walking in,
you know, doing my ridiculous stick.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
So she works there, she was.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
She was working there, she was, yes, I'm sorry, okay,
the facts. And she was working there, and you know,
I was hacking it up. You know. There was like
an original a picture, a painting, a portrait of George Washington,
you know, and I like, I love Barbara Bush, really hacky,
hacky ship, you know, stuff for she.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
And did she know who you were?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Oh no, she did not.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
She thought I was Kramer.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Stop it, are you serious?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I want to show you this right now? No, have
you ever been mistaken for Michael Richards.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yesterday? Yes?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Okay, con continue, continue this.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
This is amazing and uh so uh that So I
played it. I played it like I was because it
was a much bigger show. I'm not gonna lie. I'm
so I'm so lonely, see so lonely, you know, Yes,
you know, I went.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I went right into it the door.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And so, you know, we talked a little bit, and
you know, it all felt and sounded cliche because you know,
I'm the older guy and she's young and lovely and
there's a brain. And I was like, I have no shot,
and she went, you're absolutely right, you know. So I left.
I took a brochure and I said, maybe I'll buy
(32:26):
the milk can next to the lavender. And I went
up the street. And I was going through a little
bit of a of a head case at the time
in my life with relationships and you know, just got
out of a divorce and really struggling emotionally. You know,
never wanted to repeat how I grew up and and
(32:50):
I you know, I fell into it. That's okay. So
I was going. So I went up the street and
I bought this other big portrait that is really when
I look at it now, it's really oddly depressing. It's
a woman lying in bed, not naked but covered and
her she's it's not a great position where you know
(33:12):
she's either blissfully aware or she's odeed.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Okay, I can't.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Because the eyes, you know, one eye is a little
it's a little sammy, you know, it's a little like that.
And she's holding a communion wafer.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Then there's a glass of wine next to her. So
it's all the things that put my issue with women,
how I don't believe, I don't like religion, and how
I've stopped drinking. It was all in one picture. So
instead of buying you know, the Confederate flag with a
guy with no teeth holding it at vose, I buy
(33:56):
the uh, you know, my demise, and and it hung
in the in the club forever, and you know people
would go, God, what, that's such a donner, and he's like,
he bought that the day we met. Yeah, yeah, that's
what I got to put in a time out and
back in the ball pit. But we met, and you know,
we were both kind of you know, in a relationship
(34:18):
at the time, and you know, we we just kind
of we we were texting. It wasn't right, but it
had to be. And here we are, almost sixteen and
a half years later.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Believe or not.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
She just got her driver's license. But she's forty, you know,
but I'm sixty four. So it's you know, it's but
it works. I mean, it's what I you know, I
had ten minutes of material about it in the beginning,
which was my way of dealing with my uncomfortableness about it.
But she's got an incredible sense of humor, and I've
(34:56):
never felt more comfortable in my life. You know, if
it was ten years earlier, she would have put up
with my shit for five minutes. And there was still
stuff that she helped me get through and deal with,
not by holding up a mirror, but by you know,
(35:19):
holding my hand through some of it.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I went through a lot of loss when I started
dating her. I lost my brother, my best friend, and
my father within like a two year period, just out
of the blue. And then I lost my other brother,
and then my best friend's wife passed ironically, And I
have seven incredible god children in my life that live
(35:44):
in Vegas and helped me at the club and work
at the club. So it's been a full circle. But
it was just a real ship storm, you know when
I had met her, and it was one that wasn't
created by my doing like it was in the past.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, that I was just like, wow.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
You know, this is tough stuff to get through. Luckily,
I'm not using because so many people need me and
I need me, and you know we're very different and
scary similar as well.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, but I got very lucky.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
It's definitely, you know, I'm way way out of my league.
And I told her, I say, I tell her all
the time, and this is comforting. I say, when I
pass on and I go to the big casino in the.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Sky, because that's how I think is up there.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I always say, you'll have your whole life ahead of you,
which is great. You'll be able to, you know, find
some when you really want, and you'll have a little money.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So I've also interviewed for this podcast Kelly Rizzo Okay.
She was she is the widow of Bob Saggatt okay,
and they were several decades apart. Yeah, and it was
something apparently he talked to her a lot about like
I'm gonna you know, you're going to be single at
(37:06):
some point, Yeah, because I'm so much older.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Yeah, I want you.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
To prepare for that. She didn't realize she'd have to
prepare for that, like's years into her marriage.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, such a wonderful guy. Yeah, And I talk about
it a little too much, and I think it's a
downer for her. You know, I said, I'm not going
to be here forever, and then she leaves the room.
I check out where she is on my phone. She's
at party City. So I think a lot. I think
(37:36):
a lot of it is really is really perception.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
She's planning.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah. Yeah, but it's like, you know, it's like I
want to talk about it. You know, it's weird. It's
like when you find someone that you love so much
that you've never been that that you know, having that.
I don't know what it is, and I don't want
to overanalyze it, but it's like you always you know,
it's like your children, you want them, Okay, that's all. Yeah,
(38:03):
that's all you care about.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, And you know, I talked.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
About it a lot, you know, before we got married.
I'm like, you know, you have to understand, you know,
you're going to have to reintroduce yourself to me every
week eventually, you know, because it's it's not pretty, you know,
it is it and I'm you know, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, I love the story of how you met. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
She will not believe this about VOS.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I couldn't believe it. I've never met anyone who even
knows that place.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's so amazing. It makes it even more special. Were
you fired for stealing or what?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, I went back to school. I grew up in
andover Massachusetts. I grew up dancing at Boston Bala, so
I was in the city all the time, and I
thought that's where I'll just get my summer job. And
then I went back and I was just back at VOS.
I had a birthday in February, and I brought my
husband and my two best friends my son Gunkles to
(39:01):
Vose just to show them, like, really these were.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
It's a cool little street and a cool little building.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
It is.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I love that story.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
How were you?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, let's get into it. Let's get into mental health.
I'm better. I had a break down, a nervous breakdown
in twenty twenty one, and did not know I had
been living with severe anxiety, okay, for about twenty years,
compounded by the news, compounded by my job and politics.
(39:47):
But really, I mean I had always been very anxious,
and then when I had my son, it went to
eleven and I didn't know that I was doing this,
but I was catastrophizing on a loop all day long
about the worst thing that's going to happen. It's going
to happen, and I would vividly see it in my head,
(40:09):
and it would always involve my son, something awful happening
to my son. And it got to the point where
I felt like, if I do it, that will prevent it.
If I don't do this ritual, it's going to happen.
So my anxiety was keeping me safe, I thought, but
obviously it wasn't and it wasn't rational, and it was
actually really really unhealthy. So when I had this breakdown,
(40:33):
it was like my body said, stop doing this to me,
stop doing this to us. And then I got therapy
and I went on medication, and so I've only been
learning about what I was doing for about four years,
and I am better, but I still struggle. I'm always
(40:54):
going to struggle with anxiety. And sometimes when I think
I'm great, it'll come back and be like, Hi, you
haven't beaten me. You can't beat me. So it's hard.
It's hard, and the news doesn't help. Yeah, yeah, because
this is the other thing someone would tell me, you know,
the odds of like something awful happening in this way
(41:18):
are really low, and I'd say, really, I just covered
four of them, like sure, you know, so I had
this other effect of thinking there were only bad things
because that's all I.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Cover, Yeah, exactly, which is.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
So messed up. And you know, obviously had had a
big effect on my brain, and my brain feels a
little broken now. But this is why I talk about
it because I wish, I wish I knew what I
had been doing, and I wish someone had given it
language that would have alerted me to get help earlier,
(41:55):
because twenty years in it's really hard to unlearn some
of these habits.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Now, did you you know I never heard that turn catastrophizing. Yeah,
so God, that like rang a bell for me, because
I've done a ton of that, and my anxiety, you know,
quadrupled when I became a father, and that's all I
really ever wanted, And boy, I could, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Just I can you know you know what I'm talking
about you for?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Did you have a lot of that? You must have
had it as a kid, right, I did. Were you
with the ballet?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, I was at Boston Ballet. Ballet was tough because
it wasn't like the fun dancing where you wear the
costumes and like. It was really really tough. But I
also moved a lot, and I was constantly waiting for
a change. What's going to happen to disrupt the stability
of my life in the moment? Yea, my parents have
gotten divorced remarried. I moved like eight or nine times
(42:53):
as a kid, so I was always the new kid, introducing, auditioning,
becoming whoever they needed me to be. But I was
also on tenderhooks all the time. What's coming next?
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Oh my honey? Wow?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
So, but.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I thought all of this was normal, Like imagining some
driving my car, right, and I'm driving next to train
tracks and I'm thinking, Okay, if a train comes and
derails and comes into the road, what would I do?
These are absurd things to think about. But if my
brain isn't doing that, I would think I'm gonna be
(43:34):
surprised by something awful, and at least I can avoid
the surprise part of it.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
So you can't win.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You can win where exactly constant. It was constant at
its worst, it was twenty four seven. I'd go to
bed doing it and wake up doing it, and then
I would do these rituals, like where I'd have to
to be able to send my kid to school, which
is down the street he walks. Yeah, I'd have to
(44:04):
look him in the eyes. I'd have to make sure
we had eye contact. I'd have to say I love
you to him. He'd have to look right, like good
enough for me to feel okay. If something was off,
I'd have to do it again.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
So there's some like compulsions that were created out of
this anxiety as well.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah, yeah, boy,
that's tough. Does any of that stem from not ever
feeling good enough or the anxiety that you were You know,
sometimes the dysfunction we're raised with is our comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yes, and that's all we know. And my therapist, I
have great parents, but my therapist is like, just because
we're talking about some of the traumas of your childhood
doesn't make them bad parents, like because that was hard
for me exactly. I didn't want to think of them
that way. But listen, they weren't perfect and I went
through some stuff. Yeah, of course, and it's important to
look back at that. That's why therapy is so great
(44:58):
because I never would have told told you that I
was doing anything based on my childhood. And of course
I am.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
We all are, well, well, we all are. But you know,
it's always that thing. Is that nature or nurture? You know?
How much is chemical? How much of it is my wiring? Yes,
and it's I think sometimes it's both or one is
greater than the other. I mean, you know, I had
a lot of love from parents that despised themselves.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, so what kind of love is it? You know?
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Far greater than a lot of people, I know, you know,
and not near the trauma that you hear about her
or anything like that. But it's different when you're taught
how to love by people that don't love themselves, because
it's very superficial. It's given, you know, in ways that
may not be the healthiest because they're not in that spot,
(46:04):
you know. But once I became a parent, and you
know I was a helicopter parent trying to make up
for all the stuff that I felt, you know, wasn't
done correctly. And I you know a lot of my
parenting was grounded in fear, you know, and I so
(46:25):
relate to that.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
And so what do you do? What do you do
about about your anxiety?
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Well, you know a lot of my anxiety is depression fueled.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
OK.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
So I'm on meds for depression that I've been on
for a long long time that have helped immensely. That
I didn't get on until after I had stopped using,
which is twenty seven years. And it wouldn't have worked
anyway if I was using and on the meds that
doesn't work even though people think it does, it doesn't
as well as it could. And I know it sounds corny,
(47:03):
but I had to get to a place of trust
within our little village. You know. It's like I can't
explain the world to my kids. I know you can't.
There's no explanation. It's so out of control. But I
know my anxiety will just hinder them from dealing with
(47:25):
it better than I am, right, and I'm honest about it,
and I'm really out about my emotions, you know, and
I was my whole time with my kids. I think
the honesty of when I was struggling or I wish
I could do better, or it's important they see a
parent fail. Yes, they see a parent have to start over.
(47:47):
It's like what I always say. I always wish that
my kids could have seen me in the days where
I struggled artistically or career wise, wherever I saw, you know,
I was I. You know, I didn't always have this house.
I didn't know things. I started out in apartments much
(48:10):
smaller than yours. And I wish they could have seen that,
just to get a better idea of what life is
really about. So you know, anxiety runs through this family. Yeah,
a lot of it is I really believe wiring and
chemical and hereditary and uh you know they were raised
(48:35):
by two parents that that both had anxiety too. There
was a little cleanup I think where that's where that's concerned.
And and I try to you know, try to be
you know better at it's it's it's funny how a
lease in my case and I can tell in your case,
how children and when you love being that parent and
(48:57):
not everyone's wired for it, you know, I have buddies
that I talked to them about parenting. They look at
me like, you know, I'm from another planet, because not
everyone's wired that way. Yeah, this is really what you want.
But look how it's made us really deal with our
own crap that we've had for so long because we
(49:17):
don't want to pass it on because they.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Don't totally, you know, and it's it's still a stroke totally.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
It's why I'm doing the work.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
So clud of that you can do this because you know,
you're so admired, you're so looked up to. You're such
a force in journalism, and a lot of it is
what you bring to it. I love that you that
you you're really your own voice in what you have
to say, and there are things you have been said
that you have said, what I've watched you. That's that's
(49:45):
made me go wow, okay, yeah, and you know I
didn't look at that before, and I really just in
what you do.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Just you know, I admire that and we need people
like you talking about stuff like this. Thank you because
we always feel alone.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
I know, and I did too, because I'd always looked
at my colleagues at the news and thought how are
they doing that? How are they so healthy? And I
thought maybe they're not. They're I don't know what they're right.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, and I'm going to tell you who's really sick
over coming? No, no, but I mean, I mean yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's what anxiety and depression does. It wants us
to fill alone. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
It's a liar and it lies to you.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, it's like I would beg my parents. Let's try help,
Let's try this. If you don't like it, you don't
have to do it. But when the depression and the
bipolarity and the shame and the guilt, the more infesters,
it makes your decisions for you. You have no voice,
(50:48):
and depression is like sleep another forty hours, you'll be fine.
You now pick up that drink or that thing.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
What's the big?
Speaker 1 (50:56):
What is there to be clear about? You don't need clarity,
so it's right. The longer you wait, the more it
just becomes your being, you know, it's that alien thing.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Totally. Well, I'm really I'm glad we had this talk
and me too. Yeah, I really did really enjoyed this.
I have a quick lightning round to end on a
lighter note.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Okay, it's not math is it.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
There's no math.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Okay, there's no math.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Who are people at the Bible? Okay? I should probably
wait for the question.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Well, first was have you ever been compared to or
mistaken for Michael Richards? And you answered that yes?
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
The second is Matt Rife or Nate BARGHETSI.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Boy, this is tough because I hate to ever that
I'm not that familiar with Matt.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Okay, he's not for you, he's for like young women.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Oh you don't mean to like live with I thought
we were. Boy, this is tough. I have to say
I'm not that familiar with with Matt, though I know
the kid's on fire, and I know.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
He's he does crowd work.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
That's his things, A.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
Lot of crowd work. Yeah, more sit ups than me
for sure.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Cute, but uh, you know, I mean I don't know
Nate's You know, Nate's a very very special talent.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
He is, right, I really like his his stuff.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's just is he nice?
Speaker 1 (52:37):
I've only met him once? Okay, And the only thing
he said, ish could you please pull my car around?
I was I wasn't dressed great. I only met him once,
super kind, super nice and everyone seems to like you.
I'm happy and I'm happy for Matt and these. You know,
I know how tough it is.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
So anyone that's doing it, I uh, you know, kudos.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, Albert Brooks or Billy Crystal.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Oh boy, that's brutal.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
I know, I know it is.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
I love the boy. These are tough. Quick go back
to rife. Boy, Well, I would say, Billy God, I
don't know. They both had such an influence on me.
You know, these are guys that coming up I would
see and I you know, I'd want to put my
head in the oven.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, you know, because they're just like, well.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Why am I doing this? Boy? Can I say a tie?
Speaker 2 (53:31):
You can't. It's intentionally hard. I love them both too.
I'm a big Albert Brooks fan, but but Billy too.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Yeah, no question. His documentary of Brooks wasn't that great?
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Defending My Life? Oh my god? Oh so good? Yeah,
and so rich with little details and the rhiners and.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Oh my god, so good, so amazing.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Everyone should go, that's a tie for me, I get it.
Roast or stand up special.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Boy, You're you're really hitting my insecurity. I love that,
uh for me or for other things for you for you, well,
I don't. I don't think I should do either. No,
nor should I be involved in either. You're a yeah,
I know, you know my you know, my thing was
(54:26):
just to have a talk show and just sit down
with people and kidd its and into it and just
you know, like like like a hundred years ago, I
stood in for Rick Dy's I don't know that that
had a little in the nineties, a little talk show
and uh and it took a week off and I
went in and I was you know, I pushed a lot,
(54:47):
and I was much too, you know, because I was
so desperate to land that that would have done it differently.
But my thing is just to get out with real people.
And so I guess I guess the roast and then
I was on one of the roasts. But I you know,
I didn't love what I did and it wasn't that great.
But and a special you know, it's got to be
(55:08):
I mean, it's it's got to be really I think
material driven more than that. That's up my strength. You know.
If I could like walk into a house in the
Midwest unannounced and just at the like, like my thing
was having dinner with America. Yeah, just sitting down with
regular people.
Speaker 3 (55:28):
Yeah, you know, and go and you know, letting that
would show.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Yeah, I just wanted to do it. You know, here's
a here's a nine foot insecured you coming to your.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Home, what do you announced?
Speaker 1 (55:40):
What do you make? And you just knock on the
door and you know, you hope they don't hurt you show. Yeah,
I've always wanted to do something like Yeah, I just
thought it would be good just to just and I
mean literally put me, you know in the mix. That's
that's where I that's where I thrive. You know, I've
never been a Hollywood person. I've never been the yick guy.
(56:04):
You know. I've always worked so so hard and loved
what I do, but always knew my territory and and
that to me, I mean, if I could just unscripted,
you know, that's that's my round. You know, roast battles,
all that stuff. That's that's all great, but it's not this.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah, you know, I think we need to make this
show happen. Okay, Brad, Brad Garrett's coming for dinner?
Speaker 1 (56:28):
How about breaking Brad?
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Love? It even better? Even better with Brad?
Speaker 1 (56:35):
What's that smell? It could it could be like, boy,
I smell you know, I smell meat loathing and sim
you know, to be allan. You know, can I come in?
Speaker 2 (56:53):
You know, we need to make this show happen. Okay,
last question, This question is a very important to me culturally.
When is iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Iced coffee season?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Fucked twenty four seven for me?
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yes, correct answer? Congratulations? Oh yeah, correct answer.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Coffee is my last advice And you know, I just
I just love it perfectly.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, anyway, I liked you. Brad Garrett's coming up in
a new Pixar movie called Elio saying that right, Elliot.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
You said it exactly right.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
He's in the new Jason Rightman SNL film Saturday Night.
I can't wait to see that. Thank you so much
for coming on. This was really I loved this.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
Thank you meant a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Next week on Off the Cop, Kelly Rizzo, this guy
messaged me and was like, hey, Bob Sagat's.
Speaker 4 (57:51):
Gonna send you a DM and I was like, oh why.
I was just not interested at first, like it was
not my type, too old, but I was It's like,
that's just weird.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart podcasts as
part of the Reasoned Choice Network. I'm your host, Si Cupp.
Editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Si Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If
you like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever
you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes
every Wednesday
Host
S.E. Cupp
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