October 4, 2023 • 34 mins
One of the youngest women ever to IPO her company shares the secrets of successful creators and entrepreneurs, the keys to building a great Gen Z team, the right way to get promoted, and reveals that when it comes to work-life balance, “behind the scenes, it’s all a hot mess.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome all this hours where we sit down with the
chief executives shaping the world and answer your most pressing
questions about leadership, career, and life. I'm Mike Steibe and
you and I get to spend the next half hour
with my friend Angelie sud who, at thirty four years old,
became one of the youngest women in the world IPO
her company. Angelie has spent the last six years as
(00:26):
the CEO of Vimeo, the video platform trusted by over
two hundred and fifty million creators, entrepreneurs and companies. She's
a World Economic Forum Young Global Leader and Aspen Institute
Henry Crownfellow, and my colleague on the board of the
leading social change platform change dot org. And though today's
conversation will be focused on Angeli's path to Vimeo, I'm
excited to share that she's recently announced that she'll be
(00:48):
taking over as the CEO of Toob, the leading ad
supported professional video on demand service For the many listeners
of this show who aspire to have it all, an
accelerated career, a wonderful family, and impact on the community.
I think you're really going to enjoy this one. So
with that, Angelie my friend. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Mike.
(01:09):
I'm pumped to be doing this with you. Awesome. So,
as you know, we take questions from the audience, we
answer them together. Today we've got questions from listeners who
are wrestling with their career trajectory, fans of the creator economy,
people who are balancing their ambitions and family, a lot
of fun stuff. We're to jump right into the first one,
which is from Jessica and Palo Alto.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
She says, I'm a co founder and run go to
market for an early SaaS company that helps independent local
retailers run their business more profitably. How did you get
over the early hump and gain traction in the market?
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Give everybody the headline on Vimeo. So this is Vimeo,
and it wasn't always a SaaS company, and it was
a big part of your sort of what you did
with the company. So let's start there.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, So I joined Vimeo eight years ago when we
were really sort of the indie ad free platform competing
with YouTube, and I became CEO six years ago to
really pivot the platform to be this B to B
software offering. And the thesis was really just that the
(02:15):
same way we all used and created and shared video
in our personal lives on TikTok, that we were all
going to be also creating and sharing video at work,
and that if you were a business, whether you were
a marketer trying to reach your customers or you were
trying to engage and train and communicate with your employees internally,
you were going to start using video the same way
that you use chat or email. And so, you know,
(02:40):
the question is relevant because while Vimeo is a platform
at you know, global scale, when I stepped in, we
were in many ways building a totally new product and
trying to get product market fit, and we struggled with
all of the things I'm sure many early stage founders
struggle with.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
One.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It's like, you know, getting just a great product and
you have to start with an MVP and how you
define MVP, and then the signals that you get along
the way from working with customers that allow you to
then iterate on that product. And then I think, you know,
probably the third challenge is like just getting really good
at selling and marketing that product. And for me, I'd
(03:20):
say there are a couple things that I learned from
the experience. One is that your best salesperson is you.
You know, when you get to just scale, that's when
you're not selling anymore. But when you're early stage and
you're trying to figure out product market fit, it's not
only that you're more effective at selling, it's that it's
(03:42):
an incredible source of information that will help you make
better decisions about the overall strategy of how you iterate
on the product from there, and there are nothing beats
talking to customers directly, deeply understanding their needs in an
instinctual way, and figuring out how to make them happy.
(04:03):
And so, you know, for me that was one of
the most impactful things is just getting in there with customers.
That is a job you don't want to outsource when
you're early on awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I want to go to the next one. This is
from Felix in Austin, Hi.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I'm an artist trying to build my reputation and sell
more of my paintings online. As the CEOs of companies
that use technology to support creators, can you suggest best
practices I can employ to grow my practice?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I really would think.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
What I find is that for most creators, the marketing
and distribution is the hardest part because they want, It's
hard to do and it distracts from your time creating.
And usually, you know, the skill sets to be like
the most savvy marketer are not the ones that make
(04:49):
you a beautiful storyteller or artist. And so interestingly, what
I would say is you have to find a way
to embrace that third pillar and find a repeatable strategy
for how you're going to get audience and get content.
And you know, there's social media platforms. Obviously, there's your
(05:12):
own you know kind of whether it's your own website
or whatever you view as like your storefront. There's your
network and your connections. But you know, it's your business.
You know, even if you're an artist, it's still a business,
and you have to address and embrace that side. And
I think there are plenty of platforms that are you know,
(05:32):
trying to help creators, you know, access audience and Vimeo
we do this, We have you know, relationships with all
the social media platforms where we try and help you
get your content anatably on those platforms. But I still
think it just it's so easy to assume you make
something great and like the audience will come and they won't.
(05:53):
They won't, and you have to find a way to
push out that out there and embrace that. Part of
your job is to market.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
For a painter specifically. I know in the art world
the galleries are an indispensable part of the ecosystem. And
so if you were and which is and I'm aware
that not every artist is able to easily get a gallery.
It's a big step up in the art world. But
a gallery has that expertise, They know collectors, they know
how to connect you to the right folks, etc. Upstream
(06:23):
and downstream of that underly touched on social media and
it makes a big difference, especially because one of the
things that makes people want to support creators is the
creator story herself. And so when someone can see not
only your work but your life on Instagram, I mean,
I'm like, I'm friends with a bunch of artists and
(06:43):
it's because I discovered their work on artsy, I acquired
their work from the gallery, I follow the artist on Instagram,
and then it goes full cycle. Like I've it was
really fun for me when an artist was commenting on
my famili's Thanksgiving Day pictures because in the background was
her painting that we love so much is over the
dinner table. It's it's a really cool full cycle, and
social media makes that possible. So it's not always a
(07:05):
natural act for, as you noted, for a creator to
focus on that third pillar. But social media can be
as simple as just being yourself and engaging with people,
and that takes off too, So Felix, we wish you
a lot of good luck with it. Next question is
(07:30):
more focused on careers. This is from Benjamin and Detroit.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You each went from director middle management role to public
company CEO.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
In five years.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I am a director right now.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
I would love to be a CEO, but I don't
see a path.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How did you pull it off?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, first, Benjamin, I was born in Detroit, so lots
of love love it. But my best advice here is
that you have to create your own path and two
things that if I look back at my journey, that
I think helped me do that. First, I remember coming
(08:09):
to Vimeo as a director of metal management, and pretty
soon after I joined, our CEO left, and there was
sort of this vacuum because we were kind of like, well,
I guess we're gonna find a new CEO. Well, we
don't really know, and we're not really sure with the
strategy as there was a vacuum. And I'll never forget
he said something on his last day to a group
(08:29):
of us, which was his.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Best advice was fill in the gaps. Fill in the gaps.
And I really took that to heart.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And instead of just like waiting for a new CEO
to come in and to sort of staying in my
lane and like doing my job, I just sort of thought, well,
if I see a gap in the meantime, like, why
don't I just try and fill it. It will be
good for the company, It'll be a learning experience for me.
I never thought of it as like that's how I'm
going to make my way to the C suite. I
honestly never even thought that was a remote chance of
(08:59):
a possibility.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
But I was.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I filled in a lot of gaps. And I think
that's not because there was a role that was waiting
for me, but in some ways that became the thing
that people saw me almost stepping up and acting like
a CEO, and so it sort of enabled that to
be a possibility for me, even though it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
A clear path.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So that was really the first thing, and then the
second my number one piece of advice I say this
to anybody who has is ambitious and wants to move
up in their career. It's like, the more that you
can frame your own aspirations and goals in the context
of what's good for the business, the more it will
(09:41):
unlock opportunity. I see it all the time now. It's
like I always say, it's like, you know, if somebody
comes to me from the Vimeo team, there's like two
ways that you can have the same.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Conversation, like I want to be promoted.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, Like the first is like I want I want
to have this learning opportunity. I want this How can
Vimeo give that to me? And then the other is
I think I know that you and Julie are staying
up late at night worried about how we're going to
grow faster while getting more profitable. I have an idea
for how we might be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And I'll do the work.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And I'd love to do the work, and I love
if it makes sense and we agree it's worth doing
that you give me a shot to try and lead it,
and I promise you and I'm sure Michael agree with this.
Like if somebody that second conversation happens as a leader,
you are going to bet on that person all day long.
It's like all you want are people like that, and
(10:33):
you will give them opportunities. And I did that, I think,
probably not realizing I was doing it at Vimeo, and
I do believe that it was because it was so
for everything I wanted in my own career was so
framed and like how we were going to help Vimeo
be a better company and grow. That enabled me to
have this like step function change in my career.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So the similarity I think I noticed between our career paths,
I've seen it in a lot of other folks who've
had good growth early in their careers. You're at ic,
it's a big empire. Vimeo was not the biggest part
of it. I was at Google. AdWords was the most profitable, successful,
wonderful product in the world. I didn't work on it.
(11:14):
I worked on new businesses. I felt like there were
plenty of talented people doing the big thing, and there's
you know, it's said disparagingly sometimes, oh, you're a big
fish in a small pond. But sometimes you get to
be the big fish because there's so much to eat.
And I found at those formative stages in the career.
Starting with the smaller pond, even if it was at
a bigger company, creates opportunities to learn, make mistakes, and
(11:38):
stand out because you're not one of four hundred people
making something like AdWords success. You're one of one making
this new thing that other people hadn't been focused on
a success.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's exactly my experience as well. Flying under the radar
is a wonderful canvass for experimentation and learning. And you know,
when you're in the hu highest stakes part of a business,
people are going to take less chances on you and
take less risks. But when it's like you know, and
I still remember, you know, when I I was a
(12:10):
marketer and I was like, I want to try this
other thing as more B to B strategy, and we agreed,
you know that they would give me a small team
and a year to just kind of on the side,
like almost a little incubator within Vimeo, to try try
and work on it. And it was the first time
in my career that I had led engineering and product
(12:30):
and customer support. I had no business leading those teams.
And if I had said, hey, I need this, I
need to do that at like the largest part of
the business. No one was going to give me that opportunity.
But this was sort of like, okay, like what's the
worst that happens, Like either she and the team fail
or maybe they surprise us. And it was a wonderful
way to grow and I never I still to this day,
(12:53):
I've had a lot of experiences since I felt like
I learned the most in that year.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So for all the nbas out, they're choosing between their
offer at Amazon and their offer at Salesforce and their
offer at Microsoft, Vimeo and r T. You're hiring, sometimes
you want to go small to go big. Yeah, there
are moments in your career where it really helps sor right.
Next one is from Margaret in Tulsa. A contant topic
among my peers and HR is the challenge of managing.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Gen z and millennials.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Can you talk about what has worked for you and
you're a millennial? Am I a millennial?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I am? You must be, Yes, you must be a millennial.
I just missed it. I'm X the great generation or
a generation? You and I are? You and I are
a generation party by probably a matter of months. What's
your view in this? So, Margaret, I think a lot
about this.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I've actually written about it because I think it's so
important to acknowledge that the workforce is changing and that
we can't apply traditional or in some ways antiquated frameworks
to try and get the best work and impact out
of the future teams and how they work.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And I do believe there are.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Differences in how gen Z is motivated, how they learn,
and how business companies can get the best work out
of that generation. I also think there's similar a lot
more similarities across generations, Like at the end of the day,
we all spend a lot of our lives at work.
(14:30):
We want to feel valued, we want to feel that
there's a purpose, there's a why behind what we do,
and we want to feel like the work we're doing
has an impact, and those I think are universal. What
I see is the differences is how we communicate and
talk about those things and how they show up for
the younger generations and for me, there's probably two things
(14:51):
that I've really noticed or recognized over the years. The
first is that with the younger generations, at least a
the VIMA workforce like they don't want to be they
don't really like to follow authority or hierarchy, just for
the sake of those things. So they don't want to
just do something as someone told them to. They want
(15:12):
to do something because they understand why and they understand
why it matters. And we have this sort of me too, right, yeah,
I mean, as we all ought to. It's a very
reasonable ask. And so I always say, like, like, we
really talk about starting with why not what in all
of our communications at the company. And what I've found is, actually,
you know, I'm someone who's had to navigate difficult scenarios
(15:35):
of the last couple of years, and we've had layoffs,
we've had cost cutting, we've been in the public markets,
and that means you have to make hard decisions. And
what I've found, especially with the younger generation, is like
when you are really transparent and you provide context around
why you're making a decision, even if people don't like
the decision, even if they don't agree with the decision,
(15:57):
they're much more likely to embrace it and move forward
if they feel like you're giving them the same context
and you're including them in the why. And so for me,
that's been a pretty marked difference from how I think
in the If you think about like how we've communicated
in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's very different.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And the other one that I think is important is
I think the Air generation really wants to feel like
their leaders are human and can be trusted. And maybe
this is like not just in corporate America but also
in political leaders I don't know what it is, but
what I'm finding is like there's a healthy skepticism for
anything that comes from leaders that feel scripted or rehearsed
(16:41):
or corporate. It creates us like us versus them, dynamic
and the most effective leadership styles that I have seen
are the ones where leaders just show up as themselves.
They're real, they're vulnerable, sometimes they show their flaws, They're
not perfect, but.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
They're just real.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And what I have found that has been more motivating
for people in hard times because at the end of
the day, you know, you always hear this that you know,
great people, they don't leave a company, they leave their manager,
and leaders are the ultimate managers, like we're the managers,
and so we have to be trusted. And the way
(17:19):
you earn trust today is very different I think than
you know twenty years ago and or through forty years
ago in our parents' generation.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Margaret, I would know gen Z and Millennials are now
like half the workforce, and so this is no longer
like a small minority of our employees. We have to
figure out how to navigate. It's it's the team. And
I'd also note it's worldwide, hundreds of millions of people.
And so my philosophy on this is, we don't actually
(17:49):
have to shape our values or our culture to meet
an entire generation of hundreds of millions of people. We
have to pick the ones who are a match for
our values and our culture. And so you know, whether
you're a boomer or a millennial or a Gen Z,
there's certain kinds of people I'm looking for, and they're
hustlers and their winners, and they lead with openness, and
(18:10):
they are accountable to their outcomes, and they're good to
their teammates. Find me them in any generation and then sure,
one generation on average may be different than another generation
on average. But the people were looking for lock into
the culture and the values that we have, and they're
an awful lot of fun to work with. And you
mentioned some of the challenges of being a public company.
(18:32):
This is from Anson to New York.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
It is not a dream to take a company public.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Sunday. What size does the company have to be? What
does this process like and what does it look like?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Want your public disabuse everyone of how wonderful it is
to say.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I'll tell you honestly, I sort of knew this when
we when we became public, but I feel it even
more now, Which is be going public is not an
end of itself. It's not a goal. It's just a
funding mechanism. It's a way to access the public markets
to raise capital so that you can grow.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And there are.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Companies that reach a size, or in a stage in
an industry, or a stage in their growth where the
public markets are the right way for them to access capital,
in which case, to me, that is the right reason
to go public. Everything else, everything is a trade off.
So I look back for Vimeo, I actually think despite
(19:34):
how challenging it has been, there have been great positives.
I think we've been. You know, the sort of rigor
and discipline that gets forced on you and the public
markets can make you a stronger company. It also comes
with a whole series of costs. And I don't mean
just like your time and effort and attention, which I
mean money. I mean millions of dollars to stand up
whole functions to spend a.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Lot of more time, yeah, sec and legals. Everything is
a trade off.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
That's less time you're spending on the product, and it's
less time you're spending on your customers. So you have
to think of it as a choice, and I would
recommend thinking about it through the lens less of what stage,
like how big do I have to be, and more
about like what is the best way for my company
to be successful in achieving our mission? And do we
need a certain amount of capital to do that? Are
(20:23):
the public markets the right way? And am I willing
to incur the cost of time and money an effort
to make that happen? And I think I think those
are the right reasons to become a public company. I
will say for us, I also think once you are
(20:44):
a public company, it is the CEO's job to make
sure that you're still focusing your time and your team's
time appropriately on the things that really matter that your
shareholders should really want you to spend time on, which
is your product and serving your customers, and you know,
thinking long term and not getting too like short term
(21:06):
oriented because of the cycle of earnings, and you know
it's it's it definitely takes I think a whole nother
level of discipline to really kind of stay focused on
the things that ultimately matter.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I'll mention we we looked at the data something like
over the last ten years some number of thousands of
private company exits and twenty percent of them were IPOs
and eighty percent were exits to strategics or to new
private equity. And so I would echo it Tony said,
which is an IPO is a way to raise money,
(21:42):
and it's a way to create liquidity. It's not the
only one. And I raise that because you know, I
had I briefly had a colleague when I started at
Artsy who kept saying, you know, investors want we should
do this. Because investors want to see this, we should.
It's kind of fundraising engineering or exit engineering. And I
always said, investors want to see a great company, and
so let's build a great company and one of these
(22:02):
will be our byproduct and it will be fine. This
next one's from Amanda is a good one.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
This is a really tough market for tech companies right now.
Valuations are down, capital is scarce. There have been a
lot of layoffs and bankruptcies. How have you handled it
back from your career, whether for your company or for
you personally?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You know, Amanda, we do a real disservice to people
who are on their way up in their careers when
we write our resumes, because here's what's left out. Been
passed over for a job, a bunch of times, been fired,
had fights with the board, had a manager who didn't
like me, cried in my office, thought I couldn't do it.
Every single person who's at a place where they've had
(22:50):
some success has had all of those as well. They
don't have a section for it on LinkedIn, so you
don't get to hear about it. But that's the norm.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
We should have a section for that on LinkedIn. All
of those things happened to me and I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, or you know what, there should just be a
common sex right where other people can say, well, let
me tell you what what really happened? All right? Terrific
Marcy and South Brunswick.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
As working parents, how do you manage your time and
your responsibilities at home and work.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I recently became a manager and a mom and it
is really difficult.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Congratulations becoming a mother. I have two boys, at home
a four year old and a one year old. Had
both of them while you know, running Vimeo and went
through a long and I had a long journey to
get pregnant, and I went through all the fertility things,
and so I've gone through a lot of it, and
(23:43):
I can only imagine, I know how hard it is.
I think for me, the thing that I've learned that
that's been the most helpful is like acknowledging instead of
trying to believe that I can just do everything, like
I can just be the very best mom and the
very best CEO, and that I can just take on more,
(24:05):
it's acknowledging that, like again, everything comes with trade offs,
and trade offs are okay. And the more intentional that
I have been about when I am making a trade off,
and how the more in control and empowered I have
felt about being a working parent. So like an example
would be, you know, I know I won't be able
(24:26):
to work the same kind of hours that I was
working before because I have a child at home or
my kids at home that I need to see. So
I'm going to just acknowledge that something else has to
give in my schedule, and in my case, I've made
a bunch of decisions about how I want to sort
of optimize my life to accommodate that. Example, like I
(24:48):
don't work out, I have basically no hobbies. I barely
see my friends, but I sleep nine hours at night.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That's a smart trade because I made and I.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Was my choice to say, I just I am a happier,
more energized person. I can't bring myself my best self
to work if I'm tired, I don't have energy. And
this is the this is the right trade off for me,
unduly in this stage of my.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Life with little kids, with little kids, yeah, to be able.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
To to do this, and and you know sometimes it's
it's a hard trade off, but just knowing that I
made it made a big difference.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Same with like my schedule. You know, I've gotten a
lot more. I've just acknowledged, like I can't do everything.
I can't make this event, I can't do this thing,
and that's okay. It's okay because it's my choice. It's
not something that's being thrust upon me. It's not a constraint.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Is a choice.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
And so that for me has been the most helpful thing.
And then look, I'll say this and you need the
right support system. Nobody is doing this without a serious
support system, whether it's a nanny or family or a
partner who's willing to take a bunch of the load.
You know, make sure you find, in whatever way, shape
(26:05):
or form you can, a support system.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
It's too hard a job to do without it. You
seem to be doing a great job from.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The outside the scenes, it's a hot mess.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's good for people to know. I'm married an amazing
partner and she's a baller professional too. So we've got
this challenge of two ambitious, hard working professional parents and
it all works unless the tiniest thing goes wrong. It's
the day of a trip and a board meeting will
also be the day that your kid gets pink eye
(26:36):
and sent home from school. And so we found two things.
The first is in the way that you noted, I'm
just going to not have hobbies right now. There's a
bunch of stuff that it feels like you have to
do as a parent that you do not have to do,
and we just don't do it. We don't do holiday cards.
Do you know what a pain in the butt it
is to do holiday cards? No one notices that they
(26:58):
didn't get a holiday cart? How does it they get
a bad holiday card? So we just don't do it.
And there's like fifty things like that on the list
that it feels like I have to do this, I
have to do this, and it's not the big stuff.
We focus on the big stuff. And the second is,
you know, just like at work, sort of culture and
relationships when times are tough get you through. The SAME's
true at home and so something we've never compromised on
(27:21):
is like we go out and have a good time
together and so then when things are stressful, when the
system does break a little bit, you know, the people
who are in charge are two people who really really
enjoy each other's company and are in love in that
that's very romantic.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Like I will also just say on that point, I
love I can't tell, but I'm on the holiday card
they g as someone who never ever even considered a
holiday card. I do think it's a great point, which
is a broader one, and I'm going to specifically speak
about it from mothers because I think it's it could
be wrong, but I think it's even greater from others.
It's like ditch the mom guilt, like just ditch the
guilt about like I have to do everything perfectly for
(27:58):
my child, altho why they don't love I'm not showing
my child love.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It is so empowering when you're.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Just like okay, like, you know, like this person made
the homemade, organic, you know, cupcakes for the birthday, and
my kid got a you know, he got nothing.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I just forgot about his birthday. Seriously.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Like, sometimes like you just give yourself a little bit
of grace and if you can find a way, I think,
to just not be guilty. And sometimes like the best
way to not be guilty is like drop the ball
on something and then you're like, oh, it's okay, Everything
is okay. My child is healthy and my child is
happy and it will be okay. And that, sometimes, I think,
(28:40):
is like that's the thing that cammire us so much
is because we're ambitious type A people. We want and
we love our children and we want to be the
best for them. But sometimes you just got to be like, Okay,
I'm gonna drop some balls here and I'm not gonna
be guilty.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, and remember it's a you know, there are no solutions,
only trade offs. The trade off here is your child
maybe didn't get cupcakes at two, but gets to grow
up in a home with a mom who's killing it
and having great impact in the success and love's work.
Like it's really hard. There's no there's no substitute for that.
So when you remember that that's the trade off that's
(29:16):
being made and it's really good for your kids, makes
it a little easier. The next one's from Juhey and
San Francisco. He well, I am a woman's color with
two young.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Daughters, and I am eager to see more.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Women in traditioner of power.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
What do companies have to do.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
To hire and retain and support their future female leaders.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's a great question, Juey. I think there's a there's
several things that have to happen. I'm cautiously optimistic that
the tide is turning and that some of them are
really starting to happen, but we're certainly not there yet.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
But I think first, I do think you have.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
To You can't be what you can't see, and you
have to see people at the top who It's not
about being, you know, a female leader even it's just
seeing that leadership can take different forms and like strong
effective leaders don't all have to talk a certain way
and look a certain way and dress a certain way.
I started my career in investment banking. I was the
(30:15):
only woman in my company, which was a small bank,
and like, I remember looking up and then I remember
like you'd read the Wall Street Journal and you'd see
and I would just think, like, there's no way I'm
going to be that person. I don't think that way
and talk that way. It's not who I am. And
I think the more we have leaders of all kinds,
of all genders, like just showing up in different, diverse,
(30:38):
authentic ways, the more we all believe that that leadership
doesn't have one look and doesn't have one flavor, and
therefore we can all see.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Ourselves in that position.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I think that's a big one and I think that
there is more of an intentionality now to showcase and
highlight different leaders. And I see a lot more leaders,
including myself, feeling comfortable just being ourselves on big stages.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I'll take the opportunity to make sure that the guys
who are listening to the podcast understand that there are
a bunch of very subtle ways that women are treated
differently at work that you don't notice until you know
to look for it. And if you start going to
meetings and looking for who talks over whom and who
has a tendency to say something that someone else already
(31:23):
said but make it sound like their ideas, women are
on the wrong end of that trade. So frequently, and
I've taken guys I work with a side and given
the speech and seeing their behavior change overnight in ways
that make the office a place that's more inclusive and
more hospitable and makes it a little bit easier for
not that it's easy, but it makes a little bit
(31:44):
easier for women to thrive at work. I'm married of
a wonderful woman who's made me sensitive to a lot
of that stuff. And if you're not, Joan Littman has
a really good book called That's What She Said, and
it just chronicles all these ways that you may not
be known to sing that women are being treated differently
and unfairly at work, and you personally can fix it. Angelie,
(32:06):
this has been amazing. You're an inspiration, You're a force
for good. It has been wonderful hanging out with you.
I'm I'm sure our listeners enjoyed it just as much
as I did.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Thank you, Mike, It's great to hang out, and I
hope it was helpful for everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Based on the questions of feedback I get from this audience,
A lot of folks out there are at the stage
of their life that Angelie and I find ourselves in,
which is we're being parents and we're being leaders, and
we're trying to advance our careers and have impact with
our work. And I hope you took as much inspiration
(32:44):
from Angelie's comments today as I did. She's a terrific
mom and an amazing leader, and she's having impact on
millions of creators around the world with her work, and
she's able to do it all by not trying to
do it all. You heard her talking about getting enough
sleep and putting in the work and being there for
(33:05):
her kids, but you know, not having hobbies, and she
and I are perfectly aligned on not putting the time
in to producing holiday cards. And for those of you
who are out there at this stage of your lives
as well, I hope you realize that making these trade
offs is not only okay, it's the right thing to do,
it's smart. It has the most impact you can have
(33:27):
with your life. You're allowed to find some of these shortcuts.
You might not be the one who bakes the best
cupcakes for the bake sale, but you can be the
one there for your kids when they need you. Who's
a role model and who's blossoming in your career. That's
a pretty good balance, and Annesley was an amazing example
of it today. So I hope you enjoyed that as
(33:48):
much as I did. Remember, I love to hear from
everybody who enjoys the podcast. You can track me down
at Mike Steib on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. You can also,
time you want, leave us a voicemail with your question
for future episodes and our upcoming guest the numbers two
one three four one nine oh five nine six. Just
(34:12):
leave us a voicemail and you might find yourself on
the next podcast that's two one three four one nine
oh five nine six. Your questions help to drive these
episodes forward, and I really appreciate calling in. I want
to thank Jen, Meg, Jada, Matt and the whole team
at Blue Duck Media for pulling this all together, Dylan
and Christopher at iHeart, and Ben and the team at
(34:34):
William Morris Endeavor for all their support. Office hours is
a production of Blue Duck Media and distributed by Our
Heart Radio. Have a great day, guys. I hope you
see you next week.
Welcome all this hours where we sit down with the
chief executives shaping the world and answer your most pressing
questions about leadership, career, and life. I'm Mike Steibe and
you and I get to spend the next half hour
with my friend Angelie sud who, at thirty four years old,
became one of the youngest women in the world IPO
her company. Angelie has spent the last six years as
(00:26):
the CEO of Vimeo, the video platform trusted by over
two hundred and fifty million creators, entrepreneurs and companies. She's
a World Economic Forum Young Global Leader and Aspen Institute
Henry Crownfellow, and my colleague on the board of the
leading social change platform change dot org. And though today's
conversation will be focused on Angeli's path to Vimeo, I'm
excited to share that she's recently announced that she'll be
(00:48):
taking over as the CEO of Toob, the leading ad
supported professional video on demand service For the many listeners
of this show who aspire to have it all, an
accelerated career, a wonderful family, and impact on the community.
I think you're really going to enjoy this one. So
with that, Angelie my friend. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Mike.
(01:09):
I'm pumped to be doing this with you. Awesome. So,
as you know, we take questions from the audience, we
answer them together. Today we've got questions from listeners who
are wrestling with their career trajectory, fans of the creator economy,
people who are balancing their ambitions and family, a lot
of fun stuff. We're to jump right into the first one,
which is from Jessica and Palo Alto.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
She says, I'm a co founder and run go to
market for an early SaaS company that helps independent local
retailers run their business more profitably. How did you get
over the early hump and gain traction in the market?
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Give everybody the headline on Vimeo. So this is Vimeo,
and it wasn't always a SaaS company, and it was
a big part of your sort of what you did
with the company. So let's start there.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, So I joined Vimeo eight years ago when we
were really sort of the indie ad free platform competing
with YouTube, and I became CEO six years ago to
really pivot the platform to be this B to B
software offering. And the thesis was really just that the
(02:15):
same way we all used and created and shared video
in our personal lives on TikTok, that we were all
going to be also creating and sharing video at work,
and that if you were a business, whether you were
a marketer trying to reach your customers or you were
trying to engage and train and communicate with your employees internally,
you were going to start using video the same way
that you use chat or email. And so, you know,
(02:40):
the question is relevant because while Vimeo is a platform
at you know, global scale, when I stepped in, we
were in many ways building a totally new product and
trying to get product market fit, and we struggled with
all of the things I'm sure many early stage founders
struggle with.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
One.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
It's like, you know, getting just a great product and
you have to start with an MVP and how you
define MVP, and then the signals that you get along
the way from working with customers that allow you to
then iterate on that product. And then I think, you know,
probably the third challenge is like just getting really good
at selling and marketing that product. And for me, I'd
(03:20):
say there are a couple things that I learned from
the experience. One is that your best salesperson is you.
You know, when you get to just scale, that's when
you're not selling anymore. But when you're early stage and
you're trying to figure out product market fit, it's not
only that you're more effective at selling, it's that it's
(03:42):
an incredible source of information that will help you make
better decisions about the overall strategy of how you iterate
on the product from there, and there are nothing beats
talking to customers directly, deeply understanding their needs in an
instinctual way, and figuring out how to make them happy.
(04:03):
And so, you know, for me that was one of
the most impactful things is just getting in there with customers.
That is a job you don't want to outsource when
you're early on awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I want to go to the next one. This is
from Felix in Austin, Hi.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I'm an artist trying to build my reputation and sell
more of my paintings online. As the CEOs of companies
that use technology to support creators, can you suggest best
practices I can employ to grow my practice?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I really would think.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
What I find is that for most creators, the marketing
and distribution is the hardest part because they want, It's
hard to do and it distracts from your time creating.
And usually, you know, the skill sets to be like
the most savvy marketer are not the ones that make
(04:49):
you a beautiful storyteller or artist. And so interestingly, what
I would say is you have to find a way
to embrace that third pillar and find a repeatable strategy
for how you're going to get audience and get content.
And you know, there's social media platforms. Obviously, there's your
(05:12):
own you know kind of whether it's your own website
or whatever you view as like your storefront. There's your
network and your connections. But you know, it's your business.
You know, even if you're an artist, it's still a business,
and you have to address and embrace that side. And
I think there are plenty of platforms that are you know,
(05:32):
trying to help creators, you know, access audience and Vimeo
we do this, We have you know, relationships with all
the social media platforms where we try and help you
get your content anatably on those platforms. But I still
think it just it's so easy to assume you make
something great and like the audience will come and they won't.
(05:53):
They won't, and you have to find a way to
push out that out there and embrace that. Part of
your job is to market.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
For a painter specifically. I know in the art world
the galleries are an indispensable part of the ecosystem. And
so if you were and which is and I'm aware
that not every artist is able to easily get a gallery.
It's a big step up in the art world. But
a gallery has that expertise, They know collectors, they know
how to connect you to the right folks, etc. Upstream
(06:23):
and downstream of that underly touched on social media and
it makes a big difference, especially because one of the
things that makes people want to support creators is the
creator story herself. And so when someone can see not
only your work but your life on Instagram, I mean,
I'm like, I'm friends with a bunch of artists and
(06:43):
it's because I discovered their work on artsy, I acquired
their work from the gallery, I follow the artist on Instagram,
and then it goes full cycle. Like I've it was
really fun for me when an artist was commenting on
my famili's Thanksgiving Day pictures because in the background was
her painting that we love so much is over the
dinner table. It's it's a really cool full cycle, and
social media makes that possible. So it's not always a
(07:05):
natural act for, as you noted, for a creator to
focus on that third pillar. But social media can be
as simple as just being yourself and engaging with people,
and that takes off too, So Felix, we wish you
a lot of good luck with it. Next question is
(07:30):
more focused on careers. This is from Benjamin and Detroit.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You each went from director middle management role to public
company CEO.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
In five years.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I am a director right now.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
I would love to be a CEO, but I don't
see a path.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How did you pull it off?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, first, Benjamin, I was born in Detroit, so lots
of love love it. But my best advice here is
that you have to create your own path and two
things that if I look back at my journey, that
I think helped me do that. First, I remember coming
(08:09):
to Vimeo as a director of metal management, and pretty
soon after I joined, our CEO left, and there was
sort of this vacuum because we were kind of like, well,
I guess we're gonna find a new CEO. Well, we
don't really know, and we're not really sure with the
strategy as there was a vacuum. And I'll never forget
he said something on his last day to a group
(08:29):
of us, which was his.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Best advice was fill in the gaps. Fill in the gaps.
And I really took that to heart.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And instead of just like waiting for a new CEO
to come in and to sort of staying in my
lane and like doing my job, I just sort of thought, well,
if I see a gap in the meantime, like, why
don't I just try and fill it. It will be
good for the company, It'll be a learning experience for me.
I never thought of it as like that's how I'm
going to make my way to the C suite. I
honestly never even thought that was a remote chance of
(08:59):
a possibility.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
But I was.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I filled in a lot of gaps. And I think
that's not because there was a role that was waiting
for me, but in some ways that became the thing
that people saw me almost stepping up and acting like
a CEO, and so it sort of enabled that to
be a possibility for me, even though it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
A clear path.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So that was really the first thing, and then the
second my number one piece of advice I say this
to anybody who has is ambitious and wants to move
up in their career. It's like, the more that you
can frame your own aspirations and goals in the context
of what's good for the business, the more it will
(09:41):
unlock opportunity. I see it all the time now. It's
like I always say, it's like, you know, if somebody
comes to me from the Vimeo team, there's like two
ways that you can have the same.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Conversation, like I want to be promoted.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, Like the first is like I want I want
to have this learning opportunity. I want this How can
Vimeo give that to me? And then the other is
I think I know that you and Julie are staying
up late at night worried about how we're going to
grow faster while getting more profitable. I have an idea
for how we might be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And I'll do the work.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
And I'd love to do the work, and I love
if it makes sense and we agree it's worth doing
that you give me a shot to try and lead it,
and I promise you and I'm sure Michael agree with this.
Like if somebody that second conversation happens as a leader,
you are going to bet on that person all day long.
It's like all you want are people like that, and
(10:33):
you will give them opportunities. And I did that, I think,
probably not realizing I was doing it at Vimeo, and
I do believe that it was because it was so
for everything I wanted in my own career was so
framed and like how we were going to help Vimeo
be a better company and grow. That enabled me to
have this like step function change in my career.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So the similarity I think I noticed between our career paths,
I've seen it in a lot of other folks who've
had good growth early in their careers. You're at ic,
it's a big empire. Vimeo was not the biggest part
of it. I was at Google. AdWords was the most profitable, successful,
wonderful product in the world. I didn't work on it.
(11:14):
I worked on new businesses. I felt like there were
plenty of talented people doing the big thing, and there's
you know, it's said disparagingly sometimes, oh, you're a big
fish in a small pond. But sometimes you get to
be the big fish because there's so much to eat.
And I found at those formative stages in the career.
Starting with the smaller pond, even if it was at
a bigger company, creates opportunities to learn, make mistakes, and
(11:38):
stand out because you're not one of four hundred people
making something like AdWords success. You're one of one making
this new thing that other people hadn't been focused on
a success.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's exactly my experience as well. Flying under the radar
is a wonderful canvass for experimentation and learning. And you know,
when you're in the hu highest stakes part of a business,
people are going to take less chances on you and
take less risks. But when it's like you know, and
I still remember, you know, when I I was a
(12:10):
marketer and I was like, I want to try this
other thing as more B to B strategy, and we agreed,
you know that they would give me a small team
and a year to just kind of on the side,
like almost a little incubator within Vimeo, to try try
and work on it. And it was the first time
in my career that I had led engineering and product
(12:30):
and customer support. I had no business leading those teams.
And if I had said, hey, I need this, I
need to do that at like the largest part of
the business. No one was going to give me that opportunity.
But this was sort of like, okay, like what's the
worst that happens, Like either she and the team fail
or maybe they surprise us. And it was a wonderful
way to grow and I never I still to this day,
(12:53):
I've had a lot of experiences since I felt like
I learned the most in that year.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So for all the nbas out, they're choosing between their
offer at Amazon and their offer at Salesforce and their
offer at Microsoft, Vimeo and r T. You're hiring, sometimes
you want to go small to go big. Yeah, there
are moments in your career where it really helps sor right.
Next one is from Margaret in Tulsa. A contant topic
among my peers and HR is the challenge of managing.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Gen z and millennials.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Can you talk about what has worked for you and
you're a millennial? Am I a millennial?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I am? You must be, Yes, you must be a millennial.
I just missed it. I'm X the great generation or
a generation? You and I are? You and I are
a generation party by probably a matter of months. What's
your view in this? So, Margaret, I think a lot
about this.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I've actually written about it because I think it's so
important to acknowledge that the workforce is changing and that
we can't apply traditional or in some ways antiquated frameworks
to try and get the best work and impact out
of the future teams and how they work.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And I do believe there are.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Differences in how gen Z is motivated, how they learn,
and how business companies can get the best work out
of that generation. I also think there's similar a lot
more similarities across generations, Like at the end of the day,
we all spend a lot of our lives at work.
(14:30):
We want to feel valued, we want to feel that
there's a purpose, there's a why behind what we do,
and we want to feel like the work we're doing
has an impact, and those I think are universal. What
I see is the differences is how we communicate and
talk about those things and how they show up for
the younger generations and for me, there's probably two things
(14:51):
that I've really noticed or recognized over the years. The
first is that with the younger generations, at least a
the VIMA workforce like they don't want to be they
don't really like to follow authority or hierarchy, just for
the sake of those things. So they don't want to
just do something as someone told them to. They want
(15:12):
to do something because they understand why and they understand
why it matters. And we have this sort of me too, right, yeah,
I mean, as we all ought to. It's a very
reasonable ask. And so I always say, like, like, we
really talk about starting with why not what in all
of our communications at the company. And what I've found is, actually,
you know, I'm someone who's had to navigate difficult scenarios
(15:35):
of the last couple of years, and we've had layoffs,
we've had cost cutting, we've been in the public markets,
and that means you have to make hard decisions. And
what I've found, especially with the younger generation, is like
when you are really transparent and you provide context around
why you're making a decision, even if people don't like
the decision, even if they don't agree with the decision,
(15:57):
they're much more likely to embrace it and move forward
if they feel like you're giving them the same context
and you're including them in the why. And so for me,
that's been a pretty marked difference from how I think
in the If you think about like how we've communicated
in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's very different.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And the other one that I think is important is
I think the Air generation really wants to feel like
their leaders are human and can be trusted. And maybe
this is like not just in corporate America but also
in political leaders I don't know what it is, but
what I'm finding is like there's a healthy skepticism for
anything that comes from leaders that feel scripted or rehearsed
(16:41):
or corporate. It creates us like us versus them, dynamic
and the most effective leadership styles that I have seen
are the ones where leaders just show up as themselves.
They're real, they're vulnerable, sometimes they show their flaws, They're
not perfect, but.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
They're just real.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And what I have found that has been more motivating
for people in hard times because at the end of
the day, you know, you always hear this that you know,
great people, they don't leave a company, they leave their manager,
and leaders are the ultimate managers, like we're the managers,
and so we have to be trusted. And the way
(17:19):
you earn trust today is very different I think than
you know twenty years ago and or through forty years
ago in our parents' generation.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Margaret, I would know gen Z and Millennials are now
like half the workforce, and so this is no longer
like a small minority of our employees. We have to
figure out how to navigate. It's it's the team. And
I'd also note it's worldwide, hundreds of millions of people.
And so my philosophy on this is, we don't actually
(17:49):
have to shape our values or our culture to meet
an entire generation of hundreds of millions of people. We
have to pick the ones who are a match for
our values and our culture. And so you know, whether
you're a boomer or a millennial or a Gen Z,
there's certain kinds of people I'm looking for, and they're
hustlers and their winners, and they lead with openness, and
(18:10):
they are accountable to their outcomes, and they're good to
their teammates. Find me them in any generation and then sure,
one generation on average may be different than another generation
on average. But the people were looking for lock into
the culture and the values that we have, and they're
an awful lot of fun to work with. And you
mentioned some of the challenges of being a public company.
(18:32):
This is from Anson to New York.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
It is not a dream to take a company public.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Sunday. What size does the company have to be? What
does this process like and what does it look like?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Want your public disabuse everyone of how wonderful it is
to say.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I'll tell you honestly, I sort of knew this when
we when we became public, but I feel it even
more now, Which is be going public is not an
end of itself. It's not a goal. It's just a
funding mechanism. It's a way to access the public markets
to raise capital so that you can grow.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And there are.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Companies that reach a size, or in a stage in
an industry, or a stage in their growth where the
public markets are the right way for them to access capital,
in which case, to me, that is the right reason
to go public. Everything else, everything is a trade off.
So I look back for Vimeo, I actually think despite
(19:34):
how challenging it has been, there have been great positives.
I think we've been. You know, the sort of rigor
and discipline that gets forced on you and the public
markets can make you a stronger company. It also comes
with a whole series of costs. And I don't mean
just like your time and effort and attention, which I
mean money. I mean millions of dollars to stand up
whole functions to spend a.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Lot of more time, yeah, sec and legals. Everything is
a trade off.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
That's less time you're spending on the product, and it's
less time you're spending on your customers. So you have
to think of it as a choice, and I would
recommend thinking about it through the lens less of what stage,
like how big do I have to be, and more
about like what is the best way for my company
to be successful in achieving our mission? And do we
need a certain amount of capital to do that? Are
(20:23):
the public markets the right way? And am I willing
to incur the cost of time and money an effort
to make that happen? And I think I think those
are the right reasons to become a public company. I
will say for us, I also think once you are
(20:44):
a public company, it is the CEO's job to make
sure that you're still focusing your time and your team's
time appropriately on the things that really matter that your
shareholders should really want you to spend time on, which
is your product and serving your customers, and you know,
thinking long term and not getting too like short term
(21:06):
oriented because of the cycle of earnings, and you know
it's it's it definitely takes I think a whole nother
level of discipline to really kind of stay focused on
the things that ultimately matter.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I'll mention we we looked at the data something like
over the last ten years some number of thousands of
private company exits and twenty percent of them were IPOs
and eighty percent were exits to strategics or to new
private equity. And so I would echo it Tony said,
which is an IPO is a way to raise money,
(21:42):
and it's a way to create liquidity. It's not the
only one. And I raise that because you know, I
had I briefly had a colleague when I started at
Artsy who kept saying, you know, investors want we should
do this. Because investors want to see this, we should.
It's kind of fundraising engineering or exit engineering. And I
always said, investors want to see a great company, and
so let's build a great company and one of these
(22:02):
will be our byproduct and it will be fine. This
next one's from Amanda is a good one.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
This is a really tough market for tech companies right now.
Valuations are down, capital is scarce. There have been a
lot of layoffs and bankruptcies. How have you handled it
back from your career, whether for your company or for
you personally?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
You know, Amanda, we do a real disservice to people
who are on their way up in their careers when
we write our resumes, because here's what's left out. Been
passed over for a job, a bunch of times, been fired,
had fights with the board, had a manager who didn't
like me, cried in my office, thought I couldn't do it.
Every single person who's at a place where they've had
(22:50):
some success has had all of those as well. They
don't have a section for it on LinkedIn, so you
don't get to hear about it. But that's the norm.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
We should have a section for that on LinkedIn. All
of those things happened to me and I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, or you know what, there should just be a
common sex right where other people can say, well, let
me tell you what what really happened? All right? Terrific
Marcy and South Brunswick.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
As working parents, how do you manage your time and
your responsibilities at home and work.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I recently became a manager and a mom and it
is really difficult.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Congratulations becoming a mother. I have two boys, at home
a four year old and a one year old. Had
both of them while you know, running Vimeo and went
through a long and I had a long journey to
get pregnant, and I went through all the fertility things,
and so I've gone through a lot of it, and
(23:43):
I can only imagine, I know how hard it is.
I think for me, the thing that I've learned that
that's been the most helpful is like acknowledging instead of
trying to believe that I can just do everything, like
I can just be the very best mom and the
very best CEO, and that I can just take on more,
(24:05):
it's acknowledging that, like again, everything comes with trade offs,
and trade offs are okay. And the more intentional that
I have been about when I am making a trade off,
and how the more in control and empowered I have
felt about being a working parent. So like an example
would be, you know, I know I won't be able
(24:26):
to work the same kind of hours that I was
working before because I have a child at home or
my kids at home that I need to see. So
I'm going to just acknowledge that something else has to
give in my schedule, and in my case, I've made
a bunch of decisions about how I want to sort
of optimize my life to accommodate that. Example, like I
(24:48):
don't work out, I have basically no hobbies. I barely
see my friends, but I sleep nine hours at night.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That's a smart trade because I made and I.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Was my choice to say, I just I am a happier,
more energized person. I can't bring myself my best self
to work if I'm tired, I don't have energy. And
this is the this is the right trade off for me,
unduly in this stage of my.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Life with little kids, with little kids, yeah, to be able.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
To to do this, and and you know sometimes it's
it's a hard trade off, but just knowing that I
made it made a big difference.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Same with like my schedule. You know, I've gotten a
lot more. I've just acknowledged, like I can't do everything.
I can't make this event, I can't do this thing,
and that's okay. It's okay because it's my choice. It's
not something that's being thrust upon me. It's not a constraint.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Is a choice.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
And so that for me has been the most helpful thing.
And then look, I'll say this and you need the
right support system. Nobody is doing this without a serious
support system, whether it's a nanny or family or a
partner who's willing to take a bunch of the load.
You know, make sure you find, in whatever way, shape
(26:05):
or form you can, a support system.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
It's too hard a job to do without it. You
seem to be doing a great job from.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
The outside the scenes, it's a hot mess.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's good for people to know. I'm married an amazing
partner and she's a baller professional too. So we've got
this challenge of two ambitious, hard working professional parents and
it all works unless the tiniest thing goes wrong. It's
the day of a trip and a board meeting will
also be the day that your kid gets pink eye
(26:36):
and sent home from school. And so we found two things.
The first is in the way that you noted, I'm
just going to not have hobbies right now. There's a
bunch of stuff that it feels like you have to
do as a parent that you do not have to do,
and we just don't do it. We don't do holiday cards.
Do you know what a pain in the butt it
is to do holiday cards? No one notices that they
(26:58):
didn't get a holiday cart? How does it they get
a bad holiday card? So we just don't do it.
And there's like fifty things like that on the list
that it feels like I have to do this, I
have to do this, and it's not the big stuff.
We focus on the big stuff. And the second is,
you know, just like at work, sort of culture and
relationships when times are tough get you through. The SAME's
true at home and so something we've never compromised on
(27:21):
is like we go out and have a good time
together and so then when things are stressful, when the
system does break a little bit, you know, the people
who are in charge are two people who really really
enjoy each other's company and are in love in that
that's very romantic.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Like I will also just say on that point, I
love I can't tell, but I'm on the holiday card
they g as someone who never ever even considered a
holiday card. I do think it's a great point, which
is a broader one, and I'm going to specifically speak
about it from mothers because I think it's it could
be wrong, but I think it's even greater from others.
It's like ditch the mom guilt, like just ditch the
guilt about like I have to do everything perfectly for
(27:58):
my child, altho why they don't love I'm not showing
my child love.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It is so empowering when you're.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Just like okay, like, you know, like this person made
the homemade, organic, you know, cupcakes for the birthday, and
my kid got a you know, he got nothing.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I just forgot about his birthday. Seriously.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Like, sometimes like you just give yourself a little bit
of grace and if you can find a way, I think,
to just not be guilty. And sometimes like the best
way to not be guilty is like drop the ball
on something and then you're like, oh, it's okay, Everything
is okay. My child is healthy and my child is
happy and it will be okay. And that, sometimes, I think,
(28:40):
is like that's the thing that cammire us so much
is because we're ambitious type A people. We want and
we love our children and we want to be the
best for them. But sometimes you just got to be like, Okay,
I'm gonna drop some balls here and I'm not gonna
be guilty.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, and remember it's a you know, there are no solutions,
only trade offs. The trade off here is your child
maybe didn't get cupcakes at two, but gets to grow
up in a home with a mom who's killing it
and having great impact in the success and love's work.
Like it's really hard. There's no there's no substitute for that.
So when you remember that that's the trade off that's
(29:16):
being made and it's really good for your kids, makes
it a little easier. The next one's from Juhey and
San Francisco. He well, I am a woman's color with
two young.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Daughters, and I am eager to see more.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Women in traditioner of power.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
What do companies have to do.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
To hire and retain and support their future female leaders.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's a great question, Juey. I think there's a there's
several things that have to happen. I'm cautiously optimistic that
the tide is turning and that some of them are
really starting to happen, but we're certainly not there yet.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
But I think first, I do think you have.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
To You can't be what you can't see, and you
have to see people at the top who It's not
about being, you know, a female leader even it's just
seeing that leadership can take different forms and like strong
effective leaders don't all have to talk a certain way
and look a certain way and dress a certain way.
I started my career in investment banking. I was the
(30:15):
only woman in my company, which was a small bank,
and like, I remember looking up and then I remember
like you'd read the Wall Street Journal and you'd see
and I would just think, like, there's no way I'm
going to be that person. I don't think that way
and talk that way. It's not who I am. And
I think the more we have leaders of all kinds,
of all genders, like just showing up in different, diverse,
(30:38):
authentic ways, the more we all believe that that leadership
doesn't have one look and doesn't have one flavor, and
therefore we can all see.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Ourselves in that position.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I think that's a big one and I think that
there is more of an intentionality now to showcase and
highlight different leaders. And I see a lot more leaders,
including myself, feeling comfortable just being ourselves on big stages.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I'll take the opportunity to make sure that the guys
who are listening to the podcast understand that there are
a bunch of very subtle ways that women are treated
differently at work that you don't notice until you know
to look for it. And if you start going to
meetings and looking for who talks over whom and who
has a tendency to say something that someone else already
(31:23):
said but make it sound like their ideas, women are
on the wrong end of that trade. So frequently, and
I've taken guys I work with a side and given
the speech and seeing their behavior change overnight in ways
that make the office a place that's more inclusive and
more hospitable and makes it a little bit easier for
not that it's easy, but it makes a little bit
(31:44):
easier for women to thrive at work. I'm married of
a wonderful woman who's made me sensitive to a lot
of that stuff. And if you're not, Joan Littman has
a really good book called That's What She Said, and
it just chronicles all these ways that you may not
be known to sing that women are being treated differently
and unfairly at work, and you personally can fix it. Angelie,
(32:06):
this has been amazing. You're an inspiration, You're a force
for good. It has been wonderful hanging out with you.
I'm I'm sure our listeners enjoyed it just as much
as I did.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Thank you, Mike, It's great to hang out, and I
hope it was helpful for everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Based on the questions of feedback I get from this audience,
A lot of folks out there are at the stage
of their life that Angelie and I find ourselves in,
which is we're being parents and we're being leaders, and
we're trying to advance our careers and have impact with
our work. And I hope you took as much inspiration
(32:44):
from Angelie's comments today as I did. She's a terrific
mom and an amazing leader, and she's having impact on
millions of creators around the world with her work, and
she's able to do it all by not trying to
do it all. You heard her talking about getting enough
sleep and putting in the work and being there for
(33:05):
her kids, but you know, not having hobbies, and she
and I are perfectly aligned on not putting the time
in to producing holiday cards. And for those of you
who are out there at this stage of your lives
as well, I hope you realize that making these trade
offs is not only okay, it's the right thing to do,
it's smart. It has the most impact you can have
(33:27):
with your life. You're allowed to find some of these shortcuts.
You might not be the one who bakes the best
cupcakes for the bake sale, but you can be the
one there for your kids when they need you. Who's
a role model and who's blossoming in your career. That's
a pretty good balance, and Annesley was an amazing example
of it today. So I hope you enjoyed that as
(33:48):
much as I did. Remember, I love to hear from
everybody who enjoys the podcast. You can track me down
at Mike Steib on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. You can also,
time you want, leave us a voicemail with your question
for future episodes and our upcoming guest the numbers two
one three four one nine oh five nine six. Just
(34:12):
leave us a voicemail and you might find yourself on
the next podcast that's two one three four one nine
oh five nine six. Your questions help to drive these
episodes forward, and I really appreciate calling in. I want
to thank Jen, Meg, Jada, Matt and the whole team
at Blue Duck Media for pulling this all together, Dylan
and Christopher at iHeart, and Ben and the team at
(34:34):
William Morris Endeavor for all their support. Office hours is
a production of Blue Duck Media and distributed by Our
Heart Radio. Have a great day, guys. I hope you
see you next week.
Host
Mike Steib
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