Claudia Oshry: How to Stop Letting Your Body Image Hold You Back & Build Lasting Confidence

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, It's Jay Schetty and I'm thrilled to announce
my podcast tour for the first time ever. You can
see my on Purpose podcast live and in person. Join
me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations
with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert,
or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences

(00:23):
designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections.
I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on
cell now, Head to Jayshetty dot me and get yours today.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I think a lot of people let their weight control
their lives. I didn't think that I was capable of changing,
and now I know I'm capable of that. Like bitch,
I can do anything, like I really can't. Shit is
a multi talented entertainment personality. Hope everybody's having a urgy
Ergin Mendy the.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
One, the only. Claudia Austri, what do you feel is
the biggest misconception about you?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I felt so misunderstood by people, and I remember getting
married and being like so angry that my dad wasn't
going to be there. When I was struggling with myself image.
I feel like I'm gonna cry now. Sorry. The number
one health and wellness podcast Jay Setty Jay Sheety s
Y only shet.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Hey, everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
choose to become a happier, healthier and more healed today.
I'm excited because I'm actually speaking to someone who is
my team's number one pick. My team will only want
to show up for Michael B Jordan, Lewis Hamilton, and
Claudia Ashery.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I'm not siding women into male dominated fields.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I'm not kidding. My team are the biggest fans of
today's guest. I was lucky enough and grateful enough to
go on her show, The Toast, the hit show award
winning incredibly huge, huge, huge podcast called The Toast last year.
It is genuinely the thing. Whenever I get stopped, people
are like, I heard you on The Toast. I loved it.
I loved it. I loved it. So I am so

(01:57):
excited I get to return the favor today with Claudia Ushery. Clia,
thanks for being.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Here, my god best intro Ever do it again.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I'd be happy to.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I'd be happy.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
It was genuine, it was honest and.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I love you, by the way, Like when we met,
I'm not gonna lie. I was like a little I'm like,
who's this guy? Because I wasn't super familiar. I read
your book and I was like, Okay, let's see what
it's about. I feel like sometimes when someone becomes really
known with a lot of celebrity friends, it can be
like a little smoke in mirrors. And I was like, honestly,
I'm suspicious this guy's coming in. And you were so
kind the second you walked in. It was very disarming.

(02:29):
I was like, oh, never mind, I take back, like
I love him. And we had such a great conversation,
and I actually loved so many things about your book
because your book was like really heavy on relationships, and
I just loved it ever since, and I've just like
loved you.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Oh are you? That genuinely means the word to me.
And you made me feel so comfortable that day because
I was like, guys, like you guys. I was talking
to my team and I was like, you guys, listen
to her. And I was like, I'm not cool, I'm
not funny. I was like, how am I going to
fit in? Like how's this going to work? And they
were like, no, no, no, She's gonna be wonderful. And
you were and you are and I'm so grateful that
I now get to do this back. So let's dive
straight in. Because you just said something to me. I

(03:01):
wasn't gonna die, but you just said something to me,
and I wanted to ask you, like, what do you
feel is the biggest misconception about you? Oh?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, that's a good question. I don't know if I
would say there's one misconception, I would say like though largely,
and there was a period a few years ago because
I remember writing about this in my book where I
felt so misunderstood by people, And I feel like, unless
you were watching my podcast every day and listening to
everything else thing that I said, you didn't really get me.
Because I feel like I come off as like a
lot of different things, so like a little crazy, a
little outlandish, but I feel like the person that I

(03:28):
really am, as like a sister, a wife, I feel
like kind of gets lost in the mix. Sometimes I
like to think I'm like and I'm always like joking
about how funny and sweet and kind of beautiful I am.
But I really do believe that about myself and I
feel like just because I always lead with like humor
and a little bit of like outrageousness, I do feel
like that softer very what I think is genuine gets

(03:49):
a little bit lost.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
That's so interesting. I mean, I can relate in so
many ways. I feel so misunderstood so often, and it's
because we have a view of what a spiritual person
or a teacher or a guide looks like. And I
think I'm just trying to be people's friend. I'm trying
to be the person who's just reminding you something.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yes, I feel like your job title definitely like you
lead with that, and people have conceptions about that before.
And I feel the same way that coming from a
comedy space, especially when you make jokes like sometimes are
a little you know, people are like, oh, she's crazy,
she's radical, and it's just like I'm actually just a girl.
Like I'm just a girl, and nothing makes me happier
than making people laugh, and like sometimes they take it
a little far, but like it's funny, it's fine, what's

(04:30):
a big deal.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, And that's why for me as well, it's like
I want to help people. I want to make people
feel better. I want to introduce people to great ideas
and insights. It's not it doesn't have to be heavy,
it doesn't have to be like everything. I also love
soccer and love fashion and love you know, just I'm
a normal human being. And it's like, I love that balance,
and I think that's how I see myself, as someone

(04:53):
who has these very nuanced interests and hobbies and everything else.
But I think naturally we're kind of forced to be
in a box.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Get you both one hundred percent. I so believe that.
I feel like I'm so hard and I'm so soft.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, I love that, yeah at the same time at.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
The same time. And I feel like I'm always leading
obviously because what I do is like just try to
make people laugh, which I love. So I'm always leading
with that. And I do you feel like my sort
of so wee sensitive side And I'm very sensitive. I
feel like I don't show that a lot, and I
don't want to show it that much because I feel
like on the internet it's so toxic. If you open
up about a vulnerability or something, people throw it back

(05:30):
in your face and they use it against you. So
I'm also really protective of my own piece.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Wow, when did you learn that you had to do that.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
I feel like when I first started opening up, I
feel like the first thing I really opened up about
because I share everything on the Internet and it's not hard.
I don't feel like I'm digging deep to share. I'm
a nap. Like if I mean you for the first time,
I'll tell you my life story. That's just how I am.
So I've never felt like I was sharing something that
I wasn't comfortable sharing until I shared my journey with ozambic,
which was so personal to me, and you know, I

(05:57):
got a lot of support for it, but there were
also but you know, you're stealing drugs from diabetics, Like literally, no,
I'm not, And there was like a lot of there's
a lot of discourse around that, do people who struggle
with their weight and need medication? Are they stealing medication
from diabetes patients? So I felt like scared to share
that one because I think the emotion I felt most
was like I was really embarrassed that one I'd gotten

(06:18):
myself to a place where I required a medication, and
two I did feel a little pushed to share just
because it was so obvious to people that I was
on it, and you know, everybody, nobody love me live,
let me sleep for five minutes. They're like, she's on
a sing she don't know something. And when I did share,
I'm ultimately so glad that I did. But I didn't
feel at first like it was my choice necessarily.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
That always feels hard. Yeah, yeah, when you feel like
you had to share something because there was already so
much tool regulation.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, and now when I look back, I wish I
shared sooner. It's like the greatest journey I went on.
I have so many positive things to say about it.
I think when I tell people it makes them feel
like a little less embarrassed about their journey because look
at me, I'm so fabulous and even I did it,
and I wish I did it sooner, and I loved
every minute of the journey, But at the time I
was so embarrassed, Like that was just the emotion I

(07:09):
remember feeling, was like pure shame.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
That's I mean, And that sounds like such a hard
place to be. We actually interviewed ent video and Harry,
a good friend of mine who wrote the book The
Magic Pill. He's on ozen Pick and he's gone and
done all the research from the biggest experts in the
space and the naysays in the space, And so for
anyone who's looking for a very research guide to his
MP he was brilliant and he talked about it from
so many different perspectives. But going back to what you said,

(07:33):
one of the first things that I think so hard
for people is how society has made people feel shameful
about their body in general. I mean, you've talked before
about I saw that I actually couldn't believe this existed.
But you've talked about going to fat camp. Oh, yeah,
like I'd never heard of my life, we never I've
never heard of that living in America up in London. Yeah, Like,

(07:53):
first of all, explain to me how you can get
away with calling something fat camp. And what is fat camp?

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Well, actually, at the time, I believe they were going
by weight last camp, not that it mattered like colloquially
it's called the fat camp. And yeah, so I went
to summer camp my whole life. And when I was like,
I feel like maybe I was in like the sixth grade.
I don't remember how old I was. My older sister
was really struggling with her and I never struggled with
my weight as a kid, and you know, my parents

(08:17):
tried a lot of different things, and one of the
things that they tried was sending her to like a
summer camp that was focused on physical fitness. I think
what people think of as a fat camp, like a
fat farm, where like the kids are up every day
pulling tires up hills. It wasn't like that at all.
It was a very standard all American summer camp with
fitness and diet just sort of at the forefront of
meals and activities, and all my sisters went to support

(08:38):
my older sister and we ended up having like the
most amazing time. We went back. I never went back
to the old camp that I had originally went to.
We went back every summer. It was the greatest experience
of my life. Some of my best friends I still
talk to you to this day from camp, and so
I know how it like sounds and looks to other people,
But for me, it was just such a regular camp experience.
But I also wasn't on the program, So for any
of the summers that I spent at a weight loss camp,

(08:59):
I was actually never struggling with my weight. So'd wear
this special bracelet that just let everyone at the facility
know like I'm not on the program. And then it
turns out, you know, the second I left camp, I
actually started to, you know, struggle with my weight and
I really could have used a weight loss camp.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, I mean, so what was that like then in
the beginning years? Because I think what's interesting as we
talk about a ZMPIG to me, so much of it
is about how we're conditioned since we're young. So I
grew up overweight?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh did you?

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah? For I was overweight until I was about like fifteen, wow,
sixteen years old? Maybe can you picture it? And yeah,
I'll show you pictures. Yeah, yeah, I will, I will.
My wife has plenty of embarrassing pictures of me, and
she was as well. Oh really, yeah she was as well.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
So let me tell you. People who have never struggled
with their weight, like, are are not people. Not that
there's anything wrong with them, but like, they're not people
I can relate to. I feel like struggling with your
weight makes you such a real bitch, like can I
curse on here? Ye? Like I feel people who have
struggled with their weight they know real struggle, they know
being uncovered. Like I just feel I when I meet
someone and they've struggled with their weight, Like I automatically
know they're like, they're my type of pers do you

(10:00):
know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
But that's that's why I'm sharing my.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
It creates such you're resilient and it's like you're serious.
Especially as a kid.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Oh my god, Yeah, it's huge. I mean, like I
remember the bullying, the name calling, the awkward thing of
trying to pull myself out of a swimming pool and
not being able to, like you know, moments like that
where you're just like, oh gosh, this is the worst
thing that could have ever happened. And then being forced
to wear speedos at school. Yeah not in America, right, No, never,
that's our version of fat camp. Yeah you have to

(10:27):
wear that's terrible. Actually. Yeah. And so when I look
back at all of that, I think about how much
shame guilt is already set up just in our perception
of what it means to be overweight. And now you're
talking about feeling shame of going on a zempic, which
you're taking to do the opposite.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, it's like you can't win. I used to get
like so much you know, backlash and messages like that.
I'm setting a bad example that I live in unhealthy lifestyle.
So then I take control of it and like, I
start changing my life. And now I'm you know, running
diabetics over with a bus, Like you really can't win,
so you just had to do what makes you happy.
And going on that journey made me really happy. It
was like the first time in my life where I

(11:06):
ever felt in control of my weight. Like since I'm like,
I started gaining weight in college, so since I'm eighteen,
I it was the craziest feeling. It was so foreign
to me, and I think a lot of especially girls
who struggle with their weight, maybe able to relate to this.
Like I was always a confident person, even when you
know I was struggling with my weight, and I was
always really happy in my own body. That was like

(11:27):
something I really worked on. I think a lot of
people let their weight control their lives, whether it comes
to work or personal relationships. For me, I was never
gonna let it stand in my way. But that didn't
mean that I didn't like that. I liked it, like
I loved myself and I loved my life. But deep inside,
I always wanted to be skinny. So when you're an
overweight girl, like you wake up every day and you
think about like you look, you pass a mirror, you

(11:48):
pass a window. You're thinking probably one hundred times a
day about like the inevitable day when maybe one day
you will be skinny. So Ozembic gave me that like.
And to achieve a lifelong dream that you never think.
I know it sounds so dramatic, but to achieve a
lifelong dream that you never think is going to come
to fruition is the craziest feeling. And that's why I
really felt so compelled to share my journey because at

(12:09):
the time when I shared it was twenty twenty three,
I think maybe around the end of the year, and no,
it was like the summer. There was so much negative
stuff out there about ozembic, like the Daily Mail. Every
time somebody ended up in the er with a headache,
it was Ozembic's fault, and I just felt like everybody
was being made fun of for being on ozembic and
no one was really talking about how life changing it is,
and especially as like a girl who always wanted to

(12:31):
be a mom, I was. I was like, I can't
ever get pregnant at this weight. I have to lose
the weight before I can gain the weight. So it
just gave me opportunities. It gave me a whole new life,
and I felt so compelled to share because it bothered
me how negative everything was about this journey, Like we
were all supposed to feel shamed, Like the amount of
negative media representation that negative mentions of ozembic like was

(12:52):
supposed to I think shame people into not doing it,
And I was like, I don't feel like And I
think that's why Oprah did her special too. Her special
was really powerful because she's somebody who's benefited enormously from it,
and you don't hear those stories enough, and it makes
me so sad. So ultimately it was the best decision
I ever made, going on it and also sharing the journey.
But at the time, I just wish people had given

(13:12):
me like a little bit more space to process it.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
You know, did you ever worry about the side effects
and what you because I'm guessing you a thing about
those things as well.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, of course. So when I when it was first
brought up to me by my plastic surgeon, I was
like super intrigued. Then I spoke to like my primary
care physician about it and both of them were really
like down and excited, and they wanted me to do it,
So I fair really good, like knowing that my doctors
supported it. And that's why I like, I didn't share
from day one because one, what if it didn't go well?
Two so it doesn't work for some people. So I

(13:42):
make this whole big thing I'm going on, and then
I don't even lose the weight, Like there were so
many factors at play, so I couldn't share from day one,
and then when I started to drop significant weight, I
was just then feeling embarrassed. That's why I didn't share.
I was like, Wow, my life got to a place
where it was where I'm so out of control. I
need medication to get me to stop eating, like and

(14:04):
that's what I loved about Oprah Special, But she really
dived into like the illness the disease of obesity and
how it's like telling someone to stop eating is like
telling a depressed person to just be happy, Like it's
really not in our chemical compound. So I felt like
the whole journey, I was learning about myself. I was
learning about the disease, I was learning about the medication,
and yeah, of course I was worried about side effects,
but after a couple of weeks when I had minimal
nausea and it went away pretty fast, I felt like

(14:26):
this was the right drug for me.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, and then what was it that decided to get
you off it? Oh?

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Well, I had lost the weight and I feel like
I was on it for a year and the first
six months I just kind of let the drug like
do its thing. I didn't change my life at all.
I was like still eating like crap, but that's how
the drug works. You eat like crap, but you eat
half So I was losing weight. And then halfway through,
I was like, Okay, now that I've kind of gotten
my life a little bit under control, let me actually
try and change my life. So I joined the gym,

(14:52):
I got a trainer, I started working out, I started
eating way healthier. So I did the journey like in
two parts, one where I just kind of let the
medicaid run me, and then where I use the medication
as like a tool to change my life. And I
really wanted to see if I could do it without.
And I also knew that I had wanted to get
pregnant sometime soon, and you have to be off the

(15:12):
medication for a minimum of two months. So I got
off of it in December of twenty twenty three. I
knew in the next year I'd wanted to get pregnant,
and I kind of wanted to put as much time
between being off the drug and starting my journey, and
I wanted to see, like if I could keep up
with my working out and my eating well regimen without
the drug. And I was able to. And that's like
one of the things I'm most proud of because like,
and I never would have been able to get there

(15:34):
if it weren't for the tool of ozembic and all
those GLP on medications.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Well, and how did you, How has it changed you?
Because you, like you said, you're already confident, You already
liked yourself. Now I knew who you were. What's changed?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
I mean, I'm insufferable now. Like No, I think that
so much of my confidence was I really had to
work at it. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
It was.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I don't want to say fake, but I just remember
one day waking up and like deciding to be confident,
and slowly, by slowly, brick by brick, I built up
a sense of confidence that really it was real, but
I do think it was built on a foundation of
like kind of lies. And now that I, like really
changed my life, I felt so confident. But I also
felt so confident that I was capable of change. I

(16:19):
think for many years, I'm such a stubborn person. I
didn't think that I was capable of changing anything anything,
let alone this huge thing for me which has always
been my weight, which has kind of been like my
Roman empire. So I think the fact that I successfully
changed something in my life, something bad, and turned it
into good like that, and now I know I'm capable
of that, like bitch, I can do anything, like I

(16:40):
really can.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I love that attitude, But how did you build that
energy before? Like I don't want to take away from
the fact that even though you say you were faking it,
obviously it was working in that you were still doing well.
It seems like you were comfortable in your own skin.
Like what would you say to someone who maybe does
doesn't have doesn't want to go on his MPG because

(17:03):
they're scid or whatever it may be, But like, what
would you say with him?

Speaker 2 (17:07):
So I feel like people don't like my answer because
when I was like struggling with my self image. I
feel like I'm gonna cry and ass are so much
of my confidence, I would say, like all of it
came from the fact that I had a husband or
a boyfriend at the time, Beyonce, who loved me so
much and he thought I was like the greatest thing.
And so if he thought and look at him like

(17:27):
I just I love him so much, and so he
thinks I'm so great, Like that's nothing. You should get
your confidence from a man, whatever, But like I did,
just to be loved so unequivocally by somebody who I
think is so great that gave me a lot of confidence.
Like he thought I was the best, he thought I
was the smartest, he thought I was the prettiest, so
like I was because his opinion is only one that matters.

(17:48):
But also like I look at him and I think
of him as like so charming attractive, like who wouldn't
want to marry him? And he likes me, like, oh
my god, I must be like the greatest thing ever.
And and I really feel like so much of my confidence.
It's so funny because he says that he gets confidence
from me, which I feel like really happy that it's
a two way street. But having a relationship that I

(18:09):
felt really solid about, but also somebody who just loved
me so much. Really, it just made me believe like
what he was saying, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (18:18):
What's interesting to me is just so much of how
whether it's body shaming we do to ourselves or that
society does to us, how so much of it is
built up around aesthetics and visuals, and how health and
vitality are actually not based on simply visuals.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
No, but I will say visually at the time, like
if you were to just compare me visually now and
me visually then, like I was very unhealthy, Like I
had a lot of random medical issues that like a
twenty five year old girl shouldn't be having. So I
agree with you that like a lot of times we
judge people's health based on their weight, and that's not
the case for everyone. But to be clear, like it
was the case for me. Yeah, like I was not healthy.

(18:58):
I did not walk to work, like I was really
like living a very inactive, unhealthy lifestyle. That's not the
case for everyone you see who's overweight, but that was
one thousand percent the case for me.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Bitch, well, now pregnant, so like it's kind of reverted back,
but so not pregnancy wise. I just really like lead
my day with little pockets of activity. I think that
like met going to meetings, going to work, Like I'm
always being like, okay, I'll walk. I worked out like
before I got pregnant, I worked out like, you know,
three to five times a week. I would spend my

(19:31):
weekends like doing things that I enjoy whilst being active,
like going for walks in the park with Ben. Just
like making sure that I wasn't rotting in bed as
much as I can I'm capable of, because I'm capable
of a great deal of rotting. And then with meals,
that's really where I probably struggled the most, but just
just trying to be a little bit more well rounded.

(19:52):
I feel like I eat like a six year old,
and so I do, like I eat rice and chicken fingers,
and so just changing sometimes to like brown rice and
grilled chicken and you know, thinking a little bit more.
But it's hard because I'm such a picky eater that
you know, I'm not going to be making bronzino on
the weekends with like a top of nod, you know,
that's never gonna happen. I don't even know what top
of nod is.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
And then I mean, as I'm hearing you speak, I'm
just like, is there a lot of people talk about
this right now, like this idea of when you become pregnant?
Is there like a loss of the life you had? Like,
is there a feeling of like, wait a minute, just
a few moments ago, a few months ago I was I.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Would say, I don't feel I really. I mean, I've
been married for one hundred years and we decided to
wait to have kids. And I think that because we
made that choice, I am now not spending my pregnancy
and you know, hopefully the next year or two morning
a life. I feel like I lived life to the
fullest and I really really waited till I was ready.

(20:53):
So the only thing I feel like I'm mourning is
my body. Like that, nobody talks enough about like what
it's like to lose significant weight and then get pregnant.
I don't know how I feel about it. I don't
have like fully fleshed though outs. I'm like struggling every
single day. But no, I don't feel sad about like
a life left behind. I feel like I lived every

(21:14):
minute of my twenties, like on the edge of cliffs,
going on trips, partying, like doing everything I wanted to do.
And when I turned thirty over the summer, I was like,
you know what, I'm done, Like I really feel And
that's what I'm so happy about, because, yeah, I like
see my friends with kids, and I'm like, oh, I
do wish I had, like, you know, joined them. But
I feel so fulfilled in that one chapter of my
life that I'm really ready to start the next chapter.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Ye, what was the reason for putting kids off in
the beginning?

Speaker 2 (21:37):
What was the I would say it was mostly career.
I've been working since I'm eighteen, and I just could
not fathom taking time off. And I don't know, it
just it really scared me. It doesn't scare me so
much anymore. But also the weight thing played I could
not fathom at my previous weight getting pregnant. I think

(21:57):
it would be a high risk pregnance one and two Like,
I think it would take me to a new way,
a new category that I might not be able to
come back from. So I always knew I had to
figure it out before and Ozemba came to me at
like the perfect time.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah. I think the first thing you mentioned I related
to that is obviously me and my wife don't have
kids yet and we'd love to one day. But I
think a big thing for me also was I was
very clear on who I was when we met and
things were kind of going in the right direction for
me and then my wife, I was like, really patient
and I really wanted her to find her purpose before
we had kids, because I wanted her to know who

(22:32):
she was and know her identity and have clarity on
her worth and her value in everything before we have
a child. Because I just felt I was like, I
want her to also live a life and what that
looks like. And you know, in the past couple of
years she's just like blossom and grown. It's been so
fun to watch and it's like now I'm like, yeah,
now you know I from when we're lucky to have children.

(22:53):
It's more you can conceive it totally. Yeah, and that
you're coming at it from a point of like I
know who I am without anything, Yes, And I think
that was so important to me for her, I already
had it myself.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
And also different career thing right, like as a woman
it's not like you give birth and then you go
back to work. It's like a two year thing from
conception to the end, like till you really start to
feel like yourself again, especially when your job is like
being public and people have so much to say about
your body, Like I don't necessarily didn't want to put
myself through that, Like I really wasn't ready for it.
So I cannot recommend enough waiting till you're really ready.

(23:25):
And I know that that's a privilege, but like I
I'm so pleased with how it's worked out so far,
and I'm really really glad that I waited because I
remember I always used to say, like I wanted ten
kids when I was twenty five, and I remember sitting
at my friend's couch and I was like drunk, and
he was like, by the way, like when do you
want have kids? I'm like, when I'm twenty five, and
he was like, how old you? I'm like twenty five,

(23:47):
So maybe maybe when I'm twenty six, And I don't know.
I always I've always always known I love kids, like
my niece and my nephews or my whole life, like
I've always known that I wanted to be a mom,
and then I started to get a little worried because
I didn't feel it. I'm like, oh crap, Like I
was so annoyed at the biological hawk, and I was
so annoyed at COVID. It like took two years for
me that like maybe if COVID hadn't happened, I would

(24:08):
have been living my life those two years and been
ready when I was twenty eight. But I was like, crap, noe,
and I got a little worried that I was never
gonna be ready because I know it's something that I want.
And that's why I feel so grateful that I very
naturally came to the conclusion that I'm ready. And my
husband was amazing about that. Like if I had said
Tim five years ago, let's have a kid, he'd say, okay.
If I said Tim this year, Like he was really
let me lead, which I so appreciatd and never put

(24:30):
pressure on me to like either wait longer or hurry up.
Same with our families, Like nobody really tortured us about it.
And I know a lot of girls get like endless
harassment from their parents and their in laws, and like
I didn't get that, And I'm so grateful because I
really came to the conclusion on my own. So no,
I don't. I don't like look around and I don't
look at social media and see people like you know,
on trips and flying out of planes and think, oh,
I wish that was me. I'm like, you know what

(24:51):
I did my time. Honestly, that video makes me tired.
I want to go take a nap.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Walk me through that internal dialogue of like, how do
you get to that place of getting ready? I think
so many, any of us, yeah, are waiting to feel
ready in life, whether it's waiting to feel ready to
start a podcast, whether it's waiting to write your book,
whether it's waiting to have a kid, whether it's waiting
to get married. And you're we're just waiting, yeah, but
we never feel ready for most of us, I know,
walk me through what you feel being ready means.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I feel like jealousy is a really powerful emotion, and
I started to feel like I might be ready to
start a family when like I would hear about other
girls that I knew, friends people telling me, and up
until that point, when people would tell me, I would
be so happy for them, like I would cry, like
really genuine and I remember the first time. It was
like December of twenty twenty three. One of Ben's friends,
who his fiance excuse me wife is one of my

(25:39):
good friends. They told us that they were pregnant, and
I was so happy for it, but like I was
a little jealous. And then I was like, oh, that's interesting.
And that's why I feel like it's so important to
listen to yourself and be able to identify emotions, because
I was like, Okay, let's jut that down. I told
Ben I'm like, by the way, I'm a little jealous
of Natalie. He was like, oh, that's great. And that
was in December. That was actually when I decided to
get off of zembic and I was like, ohkay o,

(26:00):
good to know. And then I just started like listening
to my feelings and when other people would tell me,
I'd be like, damn, now I'm starting to feel a
little left behind. And so really it was my own
emotions that told me I was ready. And I've always
been very good at like identifying my own emotions and
like thinking how does this make me feel? And I
pissed him. I happy, and that's really I would say,
how I knew yeah, but it was a struggle.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
It feels like you're someone that always knows you ready
there because you got what married at twenty three?

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yes, I got married very young. I got engaged. Me
and Ben met when I was eighteen. We got engaged
when I was twenty one, so we did author of
college and then twenty three. Yeah, when I got.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Married, how did you know Ben was the one and
you were ready to get married? Then?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
It just wasn't even a question. Honestly, I would have
gotten married sooner, Like I know, it sounds so crazy,
and it is. But we met when I was eighteen,
so I was a freshman in college, and then when
I was a senior, I wasn't allowed to get engaged
in college. It was like girl, get a degree and
then we could talk. So I graduated in May, and
then Ben and I got engaged in June. It was
I know, it sounds it was four years. I was like, bitch,
I'm ready, Like let's go. Like I knew like from

(26:59):
day one that Ben was loved my life. It took him,
i want to say, like three months to know that
I was the love of his life. But it's okay.
Some people were all on our different journeys. We all
have our impresses.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
I'm you and my wife's Ben.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah. No, I I try not to like hold resentment.
I'm like, oh, no, I remember that time you knew
that I was so cute? Yeah, like, okay, you know
like me, I don't know. I just I just knew.
And it's so crazy because we met when I'm eighteen.
I'm thirty now, so there is a huge part of
my life where Ben isn't a factor. But I don't
even remember. It's like before Ben and after Ben, Like
I don't remember. It's weird if ill like tell him

(27:31):
a story and he wasn't there, I'm like, eh, where
were you? Like you, I actually feel like we're related
and we might be, but like whatever, I it's the
craziest thing. I can't really explain how I knew, but
I think when I when we first met, I was
like so excited to have a boyfriend because I loved
watching movies growing up. I'm like, oh my god, I'm
literally share from clueless. I finally have a boyfriend. And
I was so obsessed with the idea of having a
boyfriend and like the fact that there was this person

(27:52):
who wanted to spend time with me, and I was
so excited about it, and then like, I feel like
a relationship. We really grew up together. So the law
we were together in the more time we would spend,
it was like becoming abundantly clear, like we really had
the same values and we really are the same person.
And it's so funny because Ben is so funny, but
he's married to me, so it's like good luck. And

(28:13):
I always say if he had married anyone else, he
would be the funniest guy in every room. But people
say to me, people have known Ben for like three years, like,
by the way, Ben's funny. I'm like, no, I know,
but he can't get a word in with me. He's
just the best. And I honestly, I know it sounds
so crazy to have gotten married so young. And when
we were getting married, I grew up in a modern
Orthodox Jewish community, so it really wasn't that crazy. Most

(28:34):
my friends have been married around the same age as me.
But when I would meet like people, you know, regular
secular folk, they would think it was so crazy. And
I remember like being offended when people would say that,
I'm like, you don't know me and Ben, you don't
know but let me tell you something, the older I've gotten,
the more I learned, like we were crazy. We've changed
so much, you know. And when people say like not

(28:55):
to get married young, like they're right for that, they're
saying it for a reason. I think that the way
it worked out for me and Ben is really not
how it works out for most people. Because I'm so different.
Oh my god, I used to be so annoying, if
you can imagine it, Like I was just such a
different person and so was Ben. You know, I was
like very insecure and I don't know, I just was weird.

(29:16):
And I and I grew up, I think, into a
person that's amazing. But I grew up to be somebody
a little different. And it's possible that I had grown
that I would have grown into somebody that Ben didn't like.
And it's possible that Ben would have grown into he
was twenty one, that he would have grown into somebody
that I wasn't particularly into. But we really made a
conscious choice to like grow up together. So I understand
why people said that, and they were probably right for that.

(29:37):
But we're different. Sorry, just saw we are. No.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think that's a really fair point, and I think
even Roddy was twenty five and I was twenty eight,
and even that is somewhat it's still you know, it's
still younger, and it's like it's it's the same for us,
like we were sure, you know, it worked out for us.
But I would say I knew myself very well. Rodiye
knew herself enough for the time. She's definitely grown. I've

(30:01):
kind of staid the same, Yeah, And so there is
a sense of like, sometimes you get lucky and you're
fortunate and you're blessed and it's beautiful, and sometimes it
can be really hard. Of course I'm crazy, And I
think what I'm hearing from you is just like it's
not an issue if whether you're the rule or the
exception or whichever one you think you are, the point
is just be thoughtful about it, like because yeah, you

(30:24):
don't want to rush into something too young.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah. I also think Ben's a really patient person. And
I definitely did not know who I was literally until
I would say a year or two ago, And I
think I led with that like sort of insecurity, and
he was very patient with me, and he was still
like dealing and growing with his own thing. But I
don't know if in those early years, if I was
like the best version of myself, and I think that
he really saw in me who like my potential and
was very measured and really patient. So it takes two

(30:50):
people to tango. And he definitely is like the kinder,
patient one in the relationship and I'm a little bit
more like rough around the edges, if you can imagine.
And he I would attribute a lot of our marital
success to him.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
I love that much. You love then he's the best. Yeah,
it's amazing, call to me.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
But not you've never met him. He's downstairs, honestly on
a call. Like, let me tell you, my husband is
always on a call. I don't know who the hell
he's talking to. Literally this morning, he doesn't. It's the phone.
Forty minutes, I'm where are he was like walking the talk,
I'm on a call. Who the hell are you talking to?
I can't.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
No, it's it's lovely to say, I want you love
him like it's it's really beautiful.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Thank you, I will say. Like, one other reason why
you shouldn't get married young is I have oddly made
so many lifelong friends much later in life. And these
people weren't even at my wedding. It's the weirdest thing. Like,
and some of these bitches at my wedding, like, girl,
I don't know, you get out of here, and they're
like in my pictures and shit. Also, I wish I
had waited because like, if I had been on ozembic
at my wedding photos, I would have been a lot
happier with the end results of the pictures. But that's

(31:47):
my fault. That's my fault.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
No, I could so relate to that. I'm at that.
I'm at that stage where I've got a lot of
friends who are older than me, and they all renewing
their vows right now, right and they literally were like, Jay,
you went at my wedding. But I love that. You
how weird because friends change so much from when you
get married.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
So much, And I feel like there's a point in
your life where, like you you have made all of
your friends, and twenty one was not that for me
at all.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, because you haven't. You haven't worked enough, you know.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
And so many of my best lifelong friends are people
I've met through work.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
How's that? How does that work?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I like my two of my best friends, like Brian
and Taylor like I met they were guests on our show.
You meet a lot of people, and like, you know,
the reputation of podcasters, content creators, influencers like is what
it is for reason, Like some of them are insufferable,
but some of them are just like the most fabulous
people you'll ever meet in your entire life. And that's
my friends Brian and Taylor. And they were not at
my wedding. And sometimes I'll think about that and I'll

(32:42):
be like, oh, I should have wait, yeah, I should
have listen to everybody. Well you I know, but you know,
they do say that's a curse. I don't know if
that's just for the real housewives, but every real housewife
who has ever renewed her vows ended up divorced.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Really just about that that's a fact.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, wow, you know it's a fact. But it's like,
I don't plan on renewing my vows. Also, I feel
like bow renewal is like an inherently non Jewish thing,
Like Jewish people don't renew their vows. I don't know,
at you a single Jewish person that's renewed her vows.
Oh interesting, Yeah, I don't know if it's like in
the Bible or anything. I just feel like it's not culturally.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Jewish interesting, got it, Okay, understood? Understood. Yeah, it's a
I guess, yeah, I've I'm always trying to convince Rady
that I want to do it, and she's like, yeah,
of course you wont another wedding because you didn't plan
the last one once.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
I'm so with her on that, although the only reason
I would do it was would be like to get
new pictures because I was like so ugly at my wedding.
It's kind of like one of my biggest regrets.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I think Rady would do it for new pictures because
she even though she looked absolutely gorgeous, she's still she's evolve.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
They're not really, but I guess there are. It's a
time capsule, you know. It's a moment in time, not
a moment I want to remember.

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the code on Purpose. How do you decide what parts

(35:13):
of your life to share publicly and what parts to
keep private.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
I generally just lead with what I'm comfortable with. It's
like if I wouldn't be ashamed to tell the person
next me on the train, and I don't really feel
shame about a lot of things. I feel like maybe
that's something I could and should work on. But no,
I would say the ozembic thing is like the one
thing I really had to push myself to share. But
for the most part, I share what's comfortable, and I'm
just I'm an open person. I think that some people
find that unconceivable, but I just am.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
So it's easy for you. But you were saying earlier
that there's there's times when you're like, oh, this could
be judds, this could yeah, this could be misconstrued in
so and I think that's a really valid point. I
appreciate you being so honest about it. That's why I'm
raising it because I think at one point we were
in this phase where we're like, vulnerability means you share
everything with everyone, and I don't subscribe to that definition

(35:58):
of vulnerability. I think vulnerability is actually I know why
I'm sharing it with this person, and I feel safe
to share it there, and so I think that societies
had to evolve. And then you also see performative vulnerability
where people are like literally telling a vulnerable story only because.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
They you get rewarded for it.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Totally exactly. It's then ruins the purpose of vulnerability because
then it's not vulnerable. So it's like this messy space
where I'm trying to I'm constantly reflecting on like what's
truly vulnerable? How comfortable do I feel about it? What
does that mean? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
I guess then, like I wouldn't categorize myself as a
particularly vulnerable person because when I share things, even things
that are deeply personal, I don't feel like it's a
big deal, do you know what I mean? I'm just
in hope. That's just how I am. So I would
feel weirder not telling people things Like even when I
was trying to conceive with Ben, I do a podcast

(36:52):
ever day, I'm alway talking about what's going on in
my life and my marriage, and it was this huge
part that I wasn't sharing, and it felt so deceitful.
It was so foreign to me because I'm so used
to saying, yeah, last night I did X, Y and
Z and my color and my underwearest purple, Like I'm
such a sharer that actually not sharing is what makes
me uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
And why did you not share that? What was there?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
You know, what's it's like a Jewish superstition, like.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
H culture culture, it felt private? Yeah, you know, yeah, no, no,
I think Indian culture Jewish culture are very similar. It's
a lot in common. And yeah, there's definitely there are
definitely certain things that you don't share and you don't
open up too much about you wait.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Till they're real and yeah, taking care of you exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, No, no, I respect that, and I get that.
I think it's I think it's healthy for people to,
you know, find I just I just want to encourage
people to think about, you know, whether they're a public
figure or not, who you share what with This is
so important and just don't fall into the trap of oh,
everyone's being vulnerable, that's what it means to you know.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, well, I think that's like a byproduct of the
Internet is like nobody really keeps anything to themselves anymore.
And I think what started out as like a genuinely
like good initiative to open up a things is now
like we're all sharing, we all know a little too
much about each other.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
That's how I feel, let's pull back.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah. Sometimes I word something like we shouldn't tell us that, Like, yeah,
I don't think there was a need for.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
You with myself. Like today on the podcast, I was like,
I gotta go. I got a poop, And it's like,
why when I say that and just say it again,
do you know?

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. And also one thing's really interesting to me.
I got a friend's birthday last month and he said
to me, he was like, Jay, like, I noticed, like
you never post what we're doing personally and privately. And
I said to him, I said, it's because I'm really lucky.
I think my public life's amazing, but my private life's
better than my public life. And I imagine a world

(38:37):
in which I'm sitting in an old rocking chair talking
to my grandkids and talking to family and sharing these
stories that no one knows anything about. Yeah, And there's
something about that feels really sacred and special to me.
And I really want that because I remember years ago
sitting with someone and I'm not even family or close
with him, but I remember sitting on a beach with him,
and he was an older man. I was in my

(38:58):
late twenties, he was probably in his sixties, and he
just had so many life stories to share. He wasn't famous,
he wasn't well known, and he just had all these
cool stories that I was like, no one's gonna know these, yeah,
but he gets to live them every day. And there
was something about that. I was like, I want to
have memories that are only mine. Yeah, that was important
to me.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
I think that that's something I learn as I get older.
But it also makes it complicated when sharing is your life.
And I feel like there used to be a time
when I would literally be sharing a piece of content
every thirty minutes. I would have a cocktail and post,
which is like so dangerous and stupid, but the craziest,
Oh my god. I used to be like blackout in

(39:36):
a drive through at Waterburger in Texas, like Blackout ordering
like a crispy chicken biscuit like whatever, like, and it
was just I looked so scary and I'd catch them
all over my face, like and I think that's why people,
you know, that's why I have a lot of the
following that I do. They loved that life. But that's
not my life anymore. And it occurred to me, like
several years ago that I didn't have to share every

(39:57):
thought that I have. One it was getting me in
trouble and two like, yeah, some things can just be
like thoughts or memories or things that you keep to yourself.
And so I do feel like my strategy has shifted.
But it's tough when that's also how you make a living.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah. So how
do you balance that.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I'm working on it.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, it's hard.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
It is hard. I think that I've gotten much better,
and I look at it a lot like this is
my job. We're putting out content like for the job,
but it doesn't have to be like the most authentic
one percent, three hundred and sixty degree view of my life.
Like I can have things for myself.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
That's it's it's good to know you're working on it.
That's the point, right, So none of us have figured
it out.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Too. Like an Instagram story from twenty nineteen, I would die.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I would die.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Well, I was out of control, Like I just used
to say so many things like stop talking, okay, stop
like not everything needs to be shared.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
One thing I want to dive into with you. We've
talked about a zembig, We've talked about pregnancy, we've talked
about marriage, and of course we can keep talking about those.
But I think what often happens with someone like yourself.
And I'm projecting because I feel this happens to me sometimes,
But I'm projecting this idea that people don't see the
hard work from a business perspective, the strategy perspective, the

(41:07):
sleepless nights, the growth, Like you've built something incredible and
it's shadowed, not in a bad way, but it's overshadowed
by this amazing persona that you have and your charisma
and your aura and everything else. Right, It's like it's
that's what we're watching and that's what we're captivated by,
but there's a really thoughtful business person behind it who's

(41:30):
and I don't mean that from a oh, you're just
figuring out how to build a business, what you mean? Yeah,
I mean it from like a you've you've figured out
how to turn a tumbler page into you know, yeah, exactly,
which which is really amazing and I think so many
people today want to do that. So I wanted to
kind of go back to the start and ask you, like,
what did you want to be before girl with no job?

Speaker 2 (41:51):
That's a great question. I almost like didn't have time
to figure it out. So I started this tumbler in
freshman year of college, which is when people figure out
what they want to do. It very slowly, but also
quickly became something I was making money off of. So
much so by the time I graduated, I was making
like sponsored Instagram posts for a fee that would have

(42:11):
been my salary if I ended up with like a
job in media, and at the time, like content creation
was not a job. So when I made the decision,
it just made no sense, like to sit at a
desk and earn a living that was comparatively small to
what I was pulling for my Instagram. But people were
just like they couldn't believe it. They're like, it's not

(42:32):
gonna last forever, and I'm like, maybe, but maybe what
if I just ran with it? And it was really
like inconceivable to people that I was not getting a
job postgrad and that I would be like on my phone.
And I understand why because right after that I was
making a really good living, but I was doing nothing,
Like I was home all day, and I was watching
a lot of TV, and I was like recapping in
and writing funny blog posts and I was making money,
but I was not doing anything, Like, I had no

(42:54):
structure to my day. I did not set an alarm
and it was lovely, but it was not fulfilling, and
I knew that it wasn't a sustainable way. And that's
why when we started the podcast, I loved it so
much for a million different reasons. But it gave me structure,
It gave me a day like and now even to
this day, I very much operate like on Monday to Friday,
nine to five. I work forty hours a week, like

(43:15):
every other American like, and I think some people run
from that sort of convention, but when you didn't have it,
it was like kind of horrible. So I craved that
sort of structure instability, Like, seriously, if you're looking to
answer an email for me after five o'clock, I'm not answering, Like,
I have boundaries, and I love that my life kind
of mirrors that conventional work life. But that was a
goal that Jackie and I like set because this line
of work, well, yes, it can be very lucrative. It

(43:38):
is kind of nuts, and it can be a little unstable.
You have a month where you get a ton of
work in a month where you don't get So it
was fun for a girl who was twenty one, but
I knew it wasn't going to be like a sustainable
way to live. But the funny thing is that I
think there's like a large, you know, misconception that like
I work an hour a day. People are always saying
that to me, Like it's like when you say someone
from SNL works an hour a week, Like, well, no,
you see them an hour a week. You see me

(43:59):
one hour day on the show. But there's so much
that goes into running a show of that size. And
also it's not the only thing that I do. I'm
not bothered so much that people think I don't work
like whatever, you know, Like, sorry, you're dumb, you don't
know how the industry works, Like, bitch, I work hard. Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Have you ever had a real drug?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Oh my god? Okay, so yes, Like in the sense
that throughout high school and like summer's in high school,
I was a camp counselor. I worked at a toy
store by the when I went to college, All through
four years of college, I worked a had an internship,
like a paid five day a week internship at a
media company. It was an internship, but it was structured

(44:36):
at like a corporate job. So yes, I did work
in a corporate office for four years, never like full
full time because I was part time student And it
probably would have worked at that media company postgrad if
I didn't decide to become a full time content creator.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
So like yes and no, Yeah, what did you learn
from the toy store? The intenship that.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Work toy store was not for fucking me. Like, seriously,
gift wrapping is hell on Earth. I still can't do it,
And honestly, when anybody asked me to wrap a gift,
I actually have trauma from that fucking store. Really yeah,
it was horrible, like that stupid gift wrapping section, Like
no matter how many times somebody showed me how to
do it, like I could not fucking do it.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Here, I am trying to make this amazing point that
you guys, am, your point, just this idea that maybe
you picked up all these really cool skills that help
you in your career today.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
That actually I will say, like we'll get a toy
story like having to talk to strangers like who you
don't know, and like pretend like you know what you're
talking about. That builds character, That builds actually like a
great personable vibe in the corporate space. I don't feel
like I learned much, honestly. I I liked the free
lunch like it was amazing. It was one of those
big companies that gives you free lunch, and there were

(45:42):
snacks everywhere, like free snacks. I was always eating goldfish
and m and ms, and I liked I don't know.
Actually my sisters worked at the same company. It was
this huge company with like different media companies within it,
so they all work at different companies, so we all
have lunch together. I have very fond memories of that time.
And I think it's a good corporate like media especially
that's like a lot of women. It's it's a good
environment to learn how to talk to people, learn how

(46:04):
to deal with like workplace antics and people's personalities. And
sometimes I do miss like I think there's a lot
of stability that comes with the corporate job, especially when
you're thinking about like motherhood. I mean some of these
bitches over here with there's six months paid maternity leave,
like that is a joy, and they're a corporate health insurance.
There are a lot of things about like what people
consider a boring corporate life that actually is somebody without

(46:25):
a lot of like without a lot of that I'm
very envious of, especially when I'm like entering this phase
of my life, like me and my husband both have
our own companies, Like we don't have maternity leave. We
leave and the company suffers. Do you know what I mean?
There's no built in we have our own two person
health insurance. It's expensive and it sucks, okay, Like people,
there is a little bit of that privilege from the
corporate life. And I know people who are in corporate
would look at someone like me and be like, oh,

(46:47):
I always wanted to be my own boss and it's great,
but you know, there's no insurance. Yeah, there is a
one hundred percent. And I feel like I'm only as
I get older appreciating the prose of that sort of
what people would say more stereotypically boring life.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, and I think that stigma needs to go as well.
I think that there was this whole cultural shift towards entrepreneurship.
Quit your job, build your passion, and it's like, I
don't think either is for everyone, and I think we've
kind of made.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Like we've put we've put more value on the latter,
the entrepreneurship. But to be clear, I feel like we
did people of disservice when we did that, because there
is something lovely about a boring job that doesn't keep
you up all night, that you can set boundaries with
that pace, that makes that pace your bills and you
don't own it. You don't overrun the company if things
are going south. That's literally not my problem. Like there

(47:34):
is a piece in that. Yeah, Now you don't have
as much creative control. Who cares?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah. And also just like I think about this very often,
like I couldn't do anything without my team. My team
are all employed, right, and it's like I couldn't last
without them.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
So it's not like one of the best parts though
it's amazing being a business owner. It is like other
people making their living from you.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I love it. It's the best feeling in the World's
the craziest feeling. Yeah, it's the most fulfilling feeling. And
I know I couldn't do anything without them, which is
why I value I'm like, oh, we going to push
entrepreneurship real, right, but it's like what would we do
without our amazing team members? Like I know I wouldn't survive.
My chief of staff was like unwealth for like a week,
and I was just like, I was like, I don't
know what to do right?

Speaker 2 (48:15):
That toxic like hustle culture entrepreneurshi I'm not a fan of.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, But was there ever a time you had to
do it? Was there every time you did have to
work twenty four seven.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Before when when things started to really blow up for me?
But it wasn't this like standardized economy like it is now,
Like there's a formula you blow up on Instagram, you
get an agent, you get a manager, you get a
rate card, you get a media kit. Like No, that
was like not the case for me. So when things
started to work really quickly, I was doing all my
own deals. I did not have a publicist, I did
not have a manager, I did not have an agent,
I didn't have an assistant. It was literally just me
and it was manageable because it was my full time job.

(48:44):
But I don't know shit about fuck, Like I'm literally
seventeen like somebody else. So I was just kind of
making it up as I went, and I think people
really underestimated me because I was advocating on my own behalf.
I was eighteen. I'm much better now, but I used
to have like a really thick, long Island accent, and
I was just like every other word out of my
mouth is like and totally and it's not necessarily giving you,

(49:05):
you know, business woman. So I would get underestimated a lot.
And it was a unique time. Now the girlies and boys,
but mostly girlies who end up doing what I do
now it's kind of all set up for them. But
at the time, it wasn't a thing people like a
brand would reach out and based on like if it
was a brand I heard. I'm like, one of the
first brands I ever worked with was Burger King and

(49:26):
they're like, how much would you want to And I
was like a thousand dollars and they were like okay,
and I was like, bitch, a thousand dollars. I about
a purse, I was like, and then I forgot like
I had to pay taxes, but whatever. And that's another thing,
by the way, when you do this line of work
and nobody teaches you how to do your taxes, not
me getting a bill from the government, like in twenty
eighteen for like one hundred thousand dollars to pay taxes. Yeah,

(49:48):
and my biggest fear is going to jail. But yeah,
that's another thing they don't tell you. Nobody teaches you.
You kind of just have to learn along the way.
Now I feel like it's pretty set up where if
you join this line of work, there are certain business
managers and accounts who know how to do this. But
at the time when I was getting started, it was like, girl,
you're on your own. Good luck.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Have you ever been close to going to jail? No?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
No, if only I was that interesting. Like when I
was I senior in high school, I went to go
visit my sister Jackie at college and it was a flight,
so I packed up my things. I didn't have a
group in Manhattan, so I didn't have a license at
the time, which used to make traveling really hard because
I didn't have any form of identification. I used to
give them a high school idea. They're like, this is
not legally admissible, so I'd be like, I don't have
a license. Sorry, I'm literally seventeen and I don't have

(50:28):
a driver. I don't have a driver's license, and for
some reason, they pulled my bag and they were going
through my wallet and they found my fake ID and
they were like, I thought you didn't have Now now
I realized they were like doing this to scare me,
but at the time, I thought I was really going
to jail. They brought a cop out. She wants to
call my parents. She's swiping my hands. You know when
you ever get like that, and they're like, you tested
positive for explosives. I'm like, bitch, what are you talking about.

(50:50):
I'm literally high school student.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Wait, how do you test positive?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
I don't know. I mean I had gotten a mad
a cure, so I imagine there was like some chemicals
on my hands. But it was so they were really
trying to scare me, and this police officer was like, listen,
I think you're a good kid. I'm gonna let you go.
And I ran for my fucking life. I was so afraid,
but I was never I didn't break the law. I
didn't say that. This was my idea. It could have
been my cousin Sandra, Like. It was the scared, most
scared I've ever been in my life, and probably the

(51:14):
closest I've ever gotten to go into jail, which is
like not that close.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Still, it was scary.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
It was scary. And let it be a lesson to
any of the miners listening, like, put your fake ID
in your check bag.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Got it, Yeah, put your fake idea in say bag.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Don't say I never touch anything.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
What advice would you have, like you were saying, like
it seems like and I agree with you, there is
more set up. We kind of yeah, I think our careers.
Actually we didn't know each other then, but they took
off her on the same time. I was twenty sixteen
years oh yeah, I was a little older. I was
twenty eight, oh yeah, twenty seven, twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
So we had like a pretty good idea of the world.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
To some degree for sure. I mean I never knew
a person. I'd never known anyone who worked in entertainment,
anyone who'd worked in media, anyone who'd done outside anything
outside of London. So it was a whole new world
for me completely. But you're right, there are more systems
today than they were then. What advice would you have
for people who are at the age you were when

(52:07):
you first blew up, like seventeen eighteen years old, because
that's happening more and more now, Yeah, you were more
of an anomaly.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yes, that's now I'm old in the space. Yeah. I
have two A really hardcore piece. Yeah, I mean you're ancient. Sorry.
I have two extremely important pieces of advice if you
find yourself wanting to get into this line of work,
Like I don't care who you are, where you're from,
what you've done. Delete all your old social media posts,
like none of it is gonna age. Well, it's gonna
come back to buy you and they ask, and it's
gonna ruin your life. Like if I had to go

(52:34):
through what I went through, Like everybody found my old
tweets and they were like, oh r, she's fucking crazy.
Delete your tweets. I ca't believe people are still having
their tweets. Girl, Delete your tweets, like stop. That's the
first second of all is every dollar you make, put
fifty cents in a savings account for your taxes because
that's depending on where you live. Like, that's what it is.
It's half. And the good thing is sometimes you save
too much and then you get a little left over.
But just know, if somebody pays you one hundred dollars,

(52:56):
you got fifty.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, very pragmatic advice.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Well as if her in my life, like when when
before I had a business manager, trying to do my
own taxes with like an old school accountant who, like
I think I got from like a family member. They
had no idea what I did for a living, and
so I was underpaying, I was under reporting. I was
not getting any like ten ninety nine from the brands
that I work with. It was such a mess. It
was the wild wild West, so much so that years

(53:19):
later I got that huge bill and it was like
the worst thing to ever happen to me. I almost
had to go on a payment plan with the government,
Like it was so crazy. And I think that happens
a lot in entertainment, especially just like new wave of
social media entertainers. So finding an accountant, a business manager,
or teaching yourself, that's fine. But as long as you're
putting away half of what you make for taxes, like
you're safe.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Yeah. Don't you think it's incredible how much you've learned
in the last day years.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yes, Sometimes I go back and read my old emails
of like me like talking to people, and I'm like, girl,
that's the worst email ever. But it's like so cool
to see how different I speak now and how i'm
I think a lot smarter and able to advocate on
my own behalf, and the little girl sending those emails
work out like that's who I am.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Yeah, that's big. Did you ever pretend to be owned manager?

Speaker 2 (54:04):
As the name Rebecca? I was always pretending to be
my own assistant, like trying to get dinner reservations, trying
to set up calls a cloud is available. I mean,
while it's like literally mein and it worked.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
It worked. They negotiating your behalf sometimes.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Well, I actually was always negotiating on my own behalf.
And because I always found that, like so many of
the girls who worked at media companies worked at agencies,
these account managers were followers of mine, were listeners to
the toast, and that's always worked on my own behalf. Actually,
I think like a huge demographic of my following is
media girls, girls who who work at brands, who work
at agencies, And so it's always kind of benefited me
to lead with me because they're excited to work and

(54:40):
they want to make it work. And look, it's charny.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
On the other line, if someone wants to be the
next to you and start the toast, and you know,
start their.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Virtual don't everybody's set the toast isn't off.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
What advice would you have for someone who's listening to you,
watching you going, I want to build that, I want
to create that. Where where should they start work? Should
they think about? Well?

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I would just get started. I think a lot of
people are always talking about they're like making strategy plans
and outlines for projects. Just get the project up and running.
You can record a podcast on your phone. The voice
Memo app actually is very high quality audio. It's good
enough for a starting podcast. Then you can start to
make money, invest in the sure microphones that everybody has.
But before then, like, just get started. People are always
like throwing launch parties for things that don't exist yet, like, just.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Get to work, do it, yeah, don't don't overthink it.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
No.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
And it's also like it's a podcast, Okay, it's not
like the nuclear program. It's just just talk.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
What's the new?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I was trying to sound smart. I didn't think of anything.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
No, I love it. I couldn't agree with you more
as well. I think there's just such a I feel
like we're all stifling ourselves by procrastinating.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
And we're afraid of being judged. Right, we want to
put something out that's perfect, but it's like, you don't
get far without people making fun of you. Like I'm
sure my old posts used to get sent around my
high school like, oh my god, look what Quauda is doing. Cringe, cringe, crns. Well,
it's not so cringe anymore, like girl, because I'm successful
and you're not. But you have that's just part if
you if you can't take being mocked, like I wish
that weren't the case because people are cruel and it

(56:04):
is what it is. And think about how you talk
to your friends about people on social media. So someone's
going to talk about you like that and you have
to be okay with that.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, did you lose any friends along the way.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
No, Actually, I've always been really good. I've never been
that girl with like a thousand friends. I've always had
like five really good friends and they're the same friends
I love. I love that too. There I have like
the best friends. But you know, you do notice people
treating you differently, like peripherally, and whenever anybody like started
being extra nice or whatever. I always accepted it, like, sure,
you want to come to your Hampton's house, I'll be there.

(56:33):
But you know, you got to keep note of people
who only started acting that way at a certain time
in your life.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yeah, yeah you have.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yeah, there is definitely that switch. And and yeah I'm
the same as you have all my same friends from
back in the day. I can't I literally fly to
London tonight to see everyone looking forward to just yeah,
just catching up, kicking it. And it's it's one of
those things that I've also fortunate that I had such
a good group of friends right before everything took off.
You must feel like with Ben too, because it was

(56:59):
around the same time.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
So I was like, yeah, I guess I met Ben
freshman year and freshman years also when I started my blog.
I don't think it really took off till a year later,
but he's been there since the very beginning.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yeah, how much do you think that?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
That's a good question. But I often like thank the
Lord that I don't have to date at all period,
because I think dating end this day and age is horrible.
But also like with my weird job, like I think
it would just I wouldn't even know how to explain
it to people, and like I would just feel so
like awkward and embarrassed. So I'm like grateful for that.
But again, I think having this really stable force in
my life in Ben when it came to when it
came to like you know, how I felt about myself,

(57:33):
how I felt about my job, Like I think stability
is so beneficial when you're trying to build a business
and like having someone to come home to and having
a very stable personal life. I think it allowed me
to be a little nutty in different areas of my life,
like my job, because I didn't have to worry that
I was going to come home and it would be chaos,
Like Ben was always there, just how was your day?

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Yeah, I think that's what it is. You just hit
the nail on the head. I think there's certain stages
in life where you go if I decide this, it
now no longer takes up any space. I felt that
way about getting married. I felt that way about deciding
which city we were going to live, because when we
first moved to the States, we lived in New York
for two years, then we moved to la We've been
there for six years. When we decided we were living
in LA and we got our place. It was like

(58:12):
another thing at there was a settled that freed up space.
And I think we're currently living at a time where
we struggle to make decisions, yes, because we don't want
to kind of you know, put our roots down, but
actually that creates more chaos in our lives.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
One thousand percent. And I think we also live in
a culture that values that's sort of like wonderless do
I live in my car and I don't care, I
don't have a job. Well, I like a little bit structure,
a little bit boring, a little bit settled. I think
that's me getting older. But I also think it's just
like there's value in also leading a very sort of ordinary.
That's one of my sister's favorite quotes. And I forget

(58:48):
it's like, you know, being ordinary in your personal life
so you can be violent in your creative or artistic life,
because it's like you can't have a million balls in
the air at one time. But so to have a
very I don't want to say regular because I feel
like that as a negative connotation, but like a very peaceful,
very settled private life, it really does allow you to

(59:08):
you know, for me, it's my work for anyone, it
could be something else, just to like, I don't know,
fuck shit up.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
You know what's the hardest part about working with family
and what's there?

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (59:18):
One? Really?

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Yeah? I know, And I'm unique in that. I think
some people have different family issues. I could never I mean,
look at how many female podcasting duos that it's every
day we're talking about another one breaking up. Me and
Jackie will be podcasting to the day that we die,
like we are bound by blood. She's the only person
I can really talk to honestly. Like, I think a
lot of people think I'm very confrontational because I'm loud
and like a little aggressive, but actually, like if I

(59:40):
have a problem with you, I'll just start crying. Like
I cannot talk to people except my sister. I could
say whatever I want and it just like I don't
have a single complaint about working with family.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
That's amazing. Yeah, I know, I know. I love that
me too.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
To some people, they're like so confused by it. For me,
I wouldn't have it any other way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
No, I love that. For you. I'm glad. I mean,
it's it's the best thing when it works.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yes, Yeah, And I know, I'm special and lucky that
it does work.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
How is your relationship had to change? Like, what's it
meant to keep that up? Like what have you had
to do in order to have a sister relationship and
a business partner relationship because or all your conversations always
about the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Yeah, I mean it's so intertwined. But interestingly enough, when
Jackie and I were growing up, were four sisters total
from top to bottom, Like there's six years between us,
so we're all really tight, and we were all really
tight growing up. You know, there were different dynamics as
we got older, Like in the beginning, it was always
the two older sisters and the two younger sisters, Me
and Margot, Like we were just sort of divided by age,
and Olivia and Jackie would like leave us out, and
me and Margaret were just like sharing a room, so

(01:00:41):
we were like, Okay, whatever, I guess it's just us.
And then as we got older, my interest started to
align a lot more with Olivia's, and then Jackie and
Margo became like really similar and really close to the
dynamics of what we shifted. But the dynamics when we
were kids were never Jackie and I we actually probably
got along the least. We didn't fight, we didn't hate
each other, We just were not drawn to one another.
So I would say we were probably the least close

(01:01:02):
out of all four. Not that we had issues, but
we were just not I don't think we understood each other.
Jackie's very reserved, Jackie's very quiet but not shy quiet. Me,
I'm spreading my legs for everybody. I'm like, what's up?
Who you want to talk to you? Let's go here,
let's go there. So I think that I thought she was, like,
you know, weird, and she thought I was weird. We
didn't understand one another, and then when we started to

(01:01:23):
work together, our differences ended up, you know, working in
our favor. It made the conversations on the podcast more dynamic,
and we just very naturally became so close through work.
But also we were talking all the time, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
So wait, when you're when you're putting on an episode,
how much of it have you talked about before? Zero zero?
Literally zero zero.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Every single episode is completely off the cuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Everything about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
We have like five topics that we need to hit
every day, whatever the news of the day is, but
everything else is completely off the cuff, like we've never
once had a converse. And sometimes we used to sit
on FaceTime for like an hour before we would start
recording to get set up. We would just end up talking.
And we actually felt like it was ruining that the show.
She calls me a ten thirty, we start recording a
ten thirty one, like we do not because we don't
want to waste any of the it's we will never

(01:02:08):
recreate a conversation that's so fake, like we just go
for it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
That's amazing. So that way, you're really catching up in
that time too, exactly, you're avoiding talking the night before exactly,
you're saying what you did.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
She lives in a different state, so we have a
lot to catch up on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
How when did she move? And that when did you
guys she moved?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I think twenty twenty one. And I was like, okay,
it's the end of the show, Like, well, we'll do
remote but who the hell wants listened to remote podcasters?
Like it's so covidy and it sucks. And I knew
that it was the beginning of the end, and I
was freaking a little bit. And let me tell you,
it's the best thing to ever happen to us. One,
because of COVID, we were forced to really invest in

(01:02:46):
the tech, so there's actually no delay, there's no lag.
A lot of people don't know that we live in
separate states, so I think a lot of times people
are shocked to find out that Jackie doesn't live in
New York anymore, which makes me so happy. And Two,
a little bit of the distance physically has benefited us
greatly because we're no longer on top of each other
and we get to, like you say, have these natural
catch up conversations that we might not be having if

(01:03:10):
she lived down the block for me, which she did
for many years. So it's actually been the best thing
to happen to the show. And I thought it was
going to be like the beginning of the end.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
What makes you feel like when you've recorded a great episode?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
How do you know, Oh my god, when we just
a laugh laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, Like sometimes we are
just so silly that I don't even think we're speaking
English anymore. Like it's just that sisterly thing where you
can really only act so nuts with your sister. Those
are the best episodes, like true belly laughs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Yeah, And that is something you can only do with
someone you know very exactly, very well exactly, and do
you guys call it so there afterwards and like, oh
my god, you are so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
That's a good question. Now, actually it's so routine to us. Yeah,
that's kind of sad. We should be like listen, that
was so funny. Now we don't do that, but.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
It kind of protects why that hour is so good. Yes, right,
like that's the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Point and we're not trying so hard, like we're just talking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
That's it's such a special skill. It's actually such a
special talent.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
I agree that podcasting is a skill and it's a
talent because I think every I mean, the running joke
is like, you know, everybody has a podcast. Not everybody should,
but there are a lot of failed podcasts, and I
think that a lot of people think like, yeah, I
could talk for an hour a week. I actually don't
think you could. It is an art, especially with a
co host, especially as an interviewer, when to talk, when
to listen, when to stop, and so a lot of
people don't possess that skill. And I appreciate you saying

(01:04:26):
that because it's definitely a skill the same way like
you know, any other job is a skill. Like if
you're a mathematician, you know you need a certain set
of skills, and podcasting definitely requires that too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Yeah. No, I just like to point it out because
I think we just it is that I have so
many friends who just like I remember when when I
first started creating content, and my friends like, oh, we
can do that, and then it was like this whole
journey where everyone realizes that it's different. And I think
with you, because it's so natural and because it's so
off the cough, it can often be you can kind
of be like, oh, yeah, well that's whatever, but it's

(01:04:58):
like no, no, no, there's there's a real time, there's
a skill there. How much have you practiced over the
years or was this who you were at school with
your friends? Like is this just who you've been? Where
was the training, where were the reps?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
It's this is always who I've been, like very like
leading with like, I've always loved attention, I've always loved
to talk. I've always loved to make people laugh. But
I do think that I have practiced and rehearsed a
little bit in recent years. Just knowing when to listen.
That's always been my that's the biggest critique people have
of me on the show, and they're totally valid in
that I never let my sister talk. I talk over people.

(01:05:31):
I'm sure I've done it to you. I'm so sorry,
like and I'm really trying. It's one of my worst
skills personally and professionally. I do it at a dinner party.
It's so annoying and like when other people do and
I'm like, oh my gosh, she didn't shut up, and
people are like, bitch, that's you. So I am working
on that. I used to be much worse. So it's
a work in progress. But it's important to know, like
your skills, but it's also important to know what you're
not good at. And I know that I'm not good

(01:05:52):
at knowing when it's my time to listen, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Right now, have you ever measured how fast you talk?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
But I know it's insane. And if you see that insane.
I used to talk so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Much that it's funny because me and you, I'm at
the opposite end, like I usually talk so slowly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Are you're very measured?

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Yeah? I knownice. It's so funny because when we're together,
I'm just like, I'm speeding up slightly just to yeah,
I need you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
To listen to episodes of The Toast from like twenty nineteen.
I used to swallow full paragraphs like I don't even
know what I was saying. You think it's fast now
to me, this is me being so much better.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
It used to be really bad.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
It's amazing. Have you you talked about their like wanting attention,
and I think anyone is doing something publicly naturally there
is a part of them that enjoys the attention, enjoys.
I always say, like, I love when people come up
to me on the street and say hello. I tell
people in the podcast to say, hey, if you see me,
come and say hello, I want to say hello to you.
I really appreciate the feedback and the energy I get.

(01:06:48):
I had a I was walking a few years ago,
now quite a while ago with one of my clients
who's a well known actor. He gets recognized a hundred
times for every one time I get recognized, so super
well known and successful, and like he'd get stopped. I'd
get stopped once, He'd get stopped multiple times. I'd get
stopped once, And I asked him, like, how does that
feel and he said, you know what, he goes, Jay,

(01:07:10):
You're really lucky and I was like why and he said,
you're lucky because people stop me for who I pretend
to be, and people stop you for who you are.
And I was like wow, Like that really stayed. It
really stayed with me. Is one of those It was no,
I can't but it was not enough fun. But that's
my private part.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
You'll tell me afterpated.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yeah, but that was one of my favorite moments. It
stayed with me ever since that. I'm like, wait a
minute and saying with you like people when they're coming
up to you and saying the toast is amazing, or
when I keep hearing Jay, we heard you on the toast.
It was so fun. You know, when I get that
feedback from people, I'm thinking, oh, wow, like you're doing that.
How have you been careful about your relationship with attention
so that it doesn't get unhealthy? How have you thought

(01:07:49):
about that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
You know what's so funny. The more attention you get,
the less you want it. And so I think as
somebody who was an attention whrror seeing I was an
attention segin whore growing up my whole life to end
up in a line of work where you get a
lot of it. It's fulfilling for a second, and then
it's like enough, and I actually feel like I am
an attention or I'm actually really not so much anymore.

(01:08:10):
I like I got the attention that I wanted and
it felt good, but it didn't solve all my problems
like I thought it was going to. So not that
anybody who's, you know, is an attention seeker should get
the attention because then it'll it's kind of a problem
that fixes itself. But I'm really not. I think when
people meet me, like on the street, sometimes they're a
little uh taken aback. How Actually I'm not like a

(01:08:32):
dancing monkey, like I'm not so crazy all the time,
like making jokes something like I actually and definitely as
I've gotten older, like a little bit more pulled back.
You know, I'm still a little nuts more than the
average person. But not, I think as much as people
would expect.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
What part of your confidence are you still working on?

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
I'm really not, honestly, Like I feel very confident in
all aspects of my life. Like I know that I'm
great at my job. I know I'm a great wife,
I know I'm literally gorgeous, Like, I don't feel like
I'm lacking confidence in any area honestly.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
I have a lot of other problems though, but not that, like,
oh girl, what I again? Okay, what what I say?
Is my biggest problem? I actually would say my biggest
problem is sometimes my humor can be mean, and I
think that's like the worst type of humor. And I'm
actually really working on it. Like when you poke fun
at someone, sometimes I feel like I really take it

(01:09:22):
too far, Like it's okay to like think something and
not say it, because I've noticed that a lot that
I sometimes border on mean, and I don't like being mean.
That's not funny to me. I think some people feel
like they have to be mean in order to be funny,
and that's not true. I can be funny without being mean.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Yeah, and that's something you're working on, yes, Like, sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
I'll say something, I'll be like, damn, that was rough,
you know, like, and so I'm aware of it and
I'm really trying to stop. Yeah, if I will, at
least I'm aware of it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
You love the percent evil it's fun yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's uh no that that's so beautiful to hear, I
mean to hear you say, hey, you know what I'm
like too, really confident. I love hearing that. I love
it when someone says that because.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
It's a journey.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Yeah no, but I mean you've not that you've arrived,
because there is no arrival, but the idea that you
feel that way.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
I mean that doesn't mean that like I don't see
a picture of myself and like literally want to die.
But I don't try not to place too much value
on that because there are other parts of me that
are worthy, probably more worthy than how I look. Yeah,
but I am a shallow person. I do place a
lot of emphasis and value on my physical appearance.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Yeah, is that something you've ever tried to change your
shift or you've just accepted it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
It's actually like a new thing. I think since losing weight,
I've kind of become obsessed with it. And that's like
one thing that I've gained during my weight loss journey
that I don't like, the obsession with how I look,
because before, like I knew and it looked great, so
like whatever, you know, I worked on other things. But
then I started to really like the way that I
looked on the ozembic journey, and I kind of became
obsessed with it. Like I used to weigh myself and

(01:10:51):
be like, oh, I mean it's not great, but whatever.
Then I would lose weight. And when I would weigh
myself and it wasn't exactly what I wanted, I would
be so hard on myself and I used to not
care about that. So that's actually something I'm working on,
but with a pregnancy, like it's a problem for later may.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Yeah. Of course I can't thix everything a lot once.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
I'm not shating, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Trust me, I can't either that. No, But it's interesting
how sometimes the things we work on more become our
greatest stresses.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Yes, that's definitely how I feel with my weight.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Yeah, and it's one of those things that it's But
the great thing is you're aware, and I think that's
what I always think about. I remember when Kevin Hart
came on the podcast, he was talking about how in
a very different context, but he was talking about how
like some of the mistakes he made and not comparing
at all, but he was talking about some of the
mistakes he made, and they came from a place of
him feeling like this was never going to go away.

(01:11:38):
And then he was like, now I need to deal
with the fact that one day I may not be
as famous or successful as whatever. And it was just
really interesting him saying that when I still think he's
crushing it and killing it and he's like, you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Know, and how we perceive people versus how they perceive
themselves are so interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Correct, Yeah, And that's what I find is always fascinating,
because you think someone's peaking, yeah, and in their head
they're like, oh, I'm insignificant right now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Yeah, But it does not that you want people to
feel poorly about themselves, but seeing someone whom you perceive
to be on top of the world talk about how
they perceive themselves and it's not necessarily like the best.
There is like solace in that. Like even people who
are killing it and rich and famous, like even they
hate themselves, So who cares if I do? Yeah, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Wanted to end with talking about you know, you talked
a lot about last year losing your dog, which I
think no one prepares you for. Yeah. I had so
many friends who sadly went through the same thing in
the last twelve months. I don't know what it was
about the last twelve months and maybe it's sadly always
the case, but at least in my life, I had
so many people telling me that I had my business manager,

(01:12:40):
a really close friend, like just so many people in life.
We had Taylor Hill who came on the podcast and
talked about the loss of her dog Tait and just
how hard that was for her. What has been your
greatest lesson for grief in that journey?

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
So funny because you know, I lost my dad when
I was in the eighth grade or excuse me, the
ninth grade, like literally the first month of high school,
worst time ever, and it was extremely hard, and I
actually feel like being younger, I was able to bounce
back a little bit more. I remember going through that,
and really I had just transferred schools and then my
dad passed, and I really didn't want to be known
as like the girl with the dead dad. So I

(01:13:15):
remember making an active effort to get back to my life,
and I leaned so heavily into my sisters. And that's
really why my sisters and I are so close, and
my friends and extra school and I really and that's
just being a kid, right, You're more susceptible, you're more adaptable,
like you just bounce back. And I've found like when
you know friends of mine now are losing parents, like
it's so much harder. Like you're an adult, you understand
the importance of life, You have kids of your own,

(01:13:36):
and so not that it's the same at all, but
like losing my dog at twenty nine was like the
first experience with grief as an adult, and let me
tell you, it is so much harder. And this was,
you know, a dog, not a human being. The difference
was and I've long wondered my dad passed away overnight,
like he was not sick. He had a heart attack
and he died before he even got to the hospital,

(01:13:57):
like completely kind of freak accident. And always talk about
like is it better, you know, for someone to die
like that, or to get a chance to say goodbye
to somebody who has like a terminal illness, But we
have to watch them suffer for months, And I feel
like there's no right answer. Just everybody thinks their own
and I never really knew what the answer was. But
with THEO, he had terminal cancer and we ended up
putting him down, but so we lived with the cancer,

(01:14:18):
I want to say, for like two or three weeks,
like really not a long time. It was the worst
time of my life, Like it was worse than when
he actually had died. Like seeing something you someone you
love so much being such pain, it's not worth being
able to say goodbye, honestly. So oddly that experience brought
me peace with my dad, Like I like, yeah, I
didn't get to say goodbye, but like I didn't have
to watch him suffer, Like that's it's definitely worse. And

(01:14:41):
so the older I get, the actually the harder grief is.
You know, Like I remember getting married and being like
so angry that my dad wasn't going to be there
and feeling like this was so unfair. But I hadn't
really felt that anger up until that point. Like the
older you get, the more important life moments, marriage, kids,
you realize like how much you need a parent, And

(01:15:02):
so as a kid, like, yeah, okay, he's not in
my soccer game, but like you just are. You're more
resilient as a kid, you really are. And so going
through grief as an adult is forty five times harder.
And that was just with my dog, you know, whom
I loved more than anything. But a dog is not
a person. And it was the most challenging thing. I
actually don't even remember it. I blacked out that part
of my life. It's coming up on a year actually,

(01:15:23):
like this week. It was the hardest thing I've ever
been through in my life. Like seriously, I like, I
can't believe. I don't even think about that time because
it was so it was traumatizing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
That's so profound though the connection between the two.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
I know, well it was. They were so polar opposite.
It's like what I've I think I actually would have
preferred just like to take THEO to the doctor and
have him die, like the three weeks of diapers of
medic Oh my god. It was horrible, and I felt
like I was doing the wrong thing because you know,
it's cruel to keep a dog like that alive for

(01:15:57):
your own they're so clearly in pain, it's the right
thing to do to put them down, and if you're
selfishly keeping them, And I said, I'm not going to
do that. And so when we woke up one morning
it was so clear that he was suffering, we were like, listen,
this is cruel. We're keeping him alive for us, Like
we knew we had to do that, and with my dad,
like I had always felt like, oh my god, I
never got to say goodbye. It was, you know, high
one day by the next. But what THEO, the passing

(01:16:20):
of THEO really taught me is like, honestly, it's better
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
I think, what did girl with the dead dad like
mean to you? Like? What did that kind of like
what did that symbolize for you that you didn't want
to be? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
I just remember in middle school there was a girl
whose dad had died and her she was in my grade,
and then her brother was in my sister's grade, and
it was just kind of like the thing people said,
do you know what I mean? No, not pointing, but
like if you overheard like another parent talking, oh didn't
did you hear? It was just kind of what you know,
they were led with. And I didn't want that. I
wanted to be a girl who was funny, a girl

(01:16:53):
who was good at soccer, a girl who was beautiful,
like literally anything. I did not want to have that
to be the thing like, oh did you hear about
that Austray girl her father died? Like I didn't want
that to be the first thing people said about me.
So I remember making a conscious effort to just like
bounce back, and it did work for for in a
period of time.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
I can't imagine how challenging it is to you know,
be going be giving birth, having lost and then let.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Me tell you, it sucks. Like and I see Ben
who has both parents, I'm so happy for him, but
I'm jealous naturally. Yeah, I don't think that's bad.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
No, no, of course not.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
And they're the best Ben's parents, Like his dad is
like always inviting me on Father's Day, but you know,
a parent as.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
A parent, Yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing, thank you,
thank you for being open. And it's I'm hoping that, Yeah,
I'm hoping that people who have been through similar things
or you know, I know plenty of people in my
life who lost a parent early. And it's it's something
that's not talked about enough online, Like you don't you
don't really hear about it. Yeah, it's kind of like

(01:17:55):
something you talk about in therapy and nowhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Yeah, it's just like hard to talk about. Nobody wants
to be crying all the time. And I think that
no matter what stage of your grief that you're at,
like you can't talk about it without crying. That doesn't
mean that you're not healed. It's just sad, like it's
and I don't want to be sad, Like that's my
whole thing. Like I love being happy. I love making
people laugh. I love laughing, Like if I'm laughing, I'm
so happy. So I hate like sit around. And that's why,

(01:18:16):
Like I know when I talk about this on the podcast,
people don't like it. But I don't do therapy, not
for any reason. I'm not like against it. I know
it's really powerful for a lot of people. But I've
never really had a hard time communicating. And I'm very
blessed that, Like I have a lot of people in
my life who I feel completely open and comfortable opening
up to, and I know that's a privilege that not
a lot of people have. But I also like, I

(01:18:39):
don't know, I just don't want to spend my life
being sad, Like the world is sad enough, Like I
wake up every day with the goal of like making
people laugh, like I like to be joyous and spread joy.
And I don't know, sitting in the therapists office for
an hour a week like crying like oh my god,
like seriously, I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Yeah, yeah, no, And I think that everyone has their
different coping mechanisms, like you said, and for some people
that is the only place they have to say space
and a space where they don't feel judged, in a
space where they don't feel, you know, look down a
certain way because their family friends may be that way.
And it's beautiful that you don't have that. I was
gonna ask you, what's been your Have you thought a

(01:19:15):
lot about like your energy, baby's energy, Like what like
walk me through that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Yes, I have a lot because you know, people tell
me that I'm kind of like a baby whisper because
I love to sing and I love to dance and
I love to like I'm obsessed with babies and that's
what babies love, and that's what babies need, like their
first couple of months, always looking for somebody to sing
and dance to them. And so that's the type of
mom I want to be, like super joyous, super like
always singing. I don't know if you follow jesse j

(01:19:42):
the singer on Instagram. Okay, so she had a baby
and like she's always singing to her baby on Instagram.
Now I know she has like one of the best
voices in the world. And I don't. But like, I'm
gonna be Jesse j Like I'm gonna be singing to
my baby, and my baby's gonna think I have the
most amazing voice because my baby's gonna be my number
one fan.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
It's gonna be so funny if they don't, Oh my.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
God, stopp so upset, like every time I saying the
baby cries.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Yeah, well they love it till they're like four.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Oh of course, no, I'm talking about here.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
One yeah, yeah, one, you know, one one fan for
one year is good enough. I love that. I love that.
And have you thought about whether you're going to be
sharing baby journey online?

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
And I have thought about it. I definitely want to
share my journey. I'm pretty against, you know, putting your
kids on social media. I don't judge other people who do,
but I'm not going to. And I feel like I
see a trend of people sharing less and actually pulling
their kids off social media because the dangers of it
are like so obvious.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Yeah, I know that's something. I mean, rather they talk
about lot like it's it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
I would love to.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
It's one of our discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
But the internet wasn't such a disgusting place. I would
love to like have fun, but no, we can't have
nice things. People are disgusting and absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Yeah, it's challenging, it's it's such a Yeah, that's that's
the hard part, right, that's the hard part. That it's
like in the same way as you wouldn't just put
your kid up somewhere physically in that way that they're
exposed to anyone and everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Yeah, And it just actually passed that law in California
about like family channels, and Damilvado was a big part
of it of like just child's actors, but also child
like family channels, like basically explaining your kids on social
media for money. They're all still actively happening, but I
feel like in ten fifteen years, like we are going
to be hearing like the most craziest stories about kids
who were forced to be on like YouTube family channels.
It's disgraceful, but it's also slippery slope. Like you know,

(01:21:18):
like you start posting your kids and that's the most
engaging content, so you post more and more and more,
and then you rely on it to pay your bills.
So you're yelling at your kids to smile for the thumbnail.
And I never want I never want to be that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's great that you guys have sat because.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
The actually haven't even talked to Bean about it. But
I don't care what he says, Like I love them.
I'm sure he'll agree with me. Yeah, but we haven't
had like a full conversation about it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Okay, good to know. Good tonight he'll be hearing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
About this on the Jay Shatty podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Is this usually how it goes? No?

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Actually, certain things I feel really strongly about and I
say Ben, like, this is what we're doing. Certain things
he feels super strongly about. I'm like, Okay, sometimes we
both don't know how to feel. And there are people
in our life whose opinions we like respect, and we'll
call them and ask and get their opinions. That will
come to a decision together. It just depends on what
the topic is, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Yeah, I think that makes a lessonse. Yeah, if you
feel strongly enough, it's a rule.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
And yeah, and if you don't need to know, like
as a half of a part, like a half of
a marriage, like if there are certain things you don't
have like strong feelings about what your partner does, like,
so let them have that one and then when you
have strong feelings about something and they don't, they will
let you have it. Like that's the whole you know,
stick with compromise, but also knowing when you don't know,
like some all of this is new to me, motherhood, pregnancy,

(01:22:25):
and so knowing that I have no experience and talking
to people who do and if I trust them and
I think that like their values aligned with mind taking
their advice, but like it's important to know, like when
you don't know enough.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Claudia, you you're one of the most fascinating people I
ever met. You are hilarious, yes, profound today at times.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I really don't want to cry. It is what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
No, I appreciate you being so honest and vulnerable with
us and showing that soft side. Yeah, you know, I
like for people to be able.

Speaker 2 (01:22:57):
To see you keep it turning in a box like
she is going to surprise you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
I love it. Well, Clodia, it's been such a joy
talking to you. We end every episode with a final
five Okay, these have to be answered in one word
to one sentence game, not a Clodia sentence.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Okay, I promise I will do one word yes, yeah, one.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
Word of one sentence. Oh okay, but not a sentence
seventy nine walls not JA calling me out? Okay, all right, okay, yeah,
and I'm not judging you no first time. Okay. So
question number one, what is the best advice you've ever
heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
This isn't like, you know, a curated sentence, so I'm
just going to like speak, And I think it's something
I've realized as I've gotten older, especially as like a
woman in the industry, you feel really competitive with like
other people, I feel now like I like to work
to live and not live to work, like I just
would like to make a living. I don't need to
be the biggest podcast or don't mean the number one
selling comedian. I just would like to provide for my family.

(01:23:50):
I think when you get really caught up in like
the hustle culture, it's good to have ambition, of course,
but what you sue be important to me is actually
really not important to me anymore now, Like just a
job is a job. It's to provide and that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Great sentence.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Thanks, Oh god, I forgot about the sentence. Okay, sorry,
I'm gonna no.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
No no, as well explained I would have asked you
to explain Question number two, what is the worst advice
you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Oh my god, there is a okay, sorry, it's gonna
be more than one. Seven. There is a phrase that
I hate. It's called like being realistic is the quickest
path to mediocrity. Like I so disagree with that. I
think being realistic is so important, like so important.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Yeah, good answer. Question number three? What excites you most
about motherhood?

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
I'm such an affectionate person, Like I love all my
nieces and nephews who are growing older now they're like
starting to hate it, but like I cover them and kisses,
Like I just says with kisses and hugs, and like
this baby like is gonna but this movie's gonna love
me more than anyone. It probably end up liking Ben more.
But this maybe like is mine, you know, And I
could kiss it as much as I want.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
I love it. A question number before, what are you
most excited to see about Ben becoming a dad? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
My god, Like, I just know Ben is going to
be the best, the best, like most affectionate. The kids
are gonna love him. They're gonna like him so much more.
They're gonna go to him I'm like, I don't know
what exactly I'm most looking forward to, but I feel
a lot of peace and knowing that I'm bringing a
baby into the world with like someone who's seriously going
to be the best out on the Ponet.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Fifth and final question, we asked this to every guest
who's ever been on the show. If you could create
one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
what would it be.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
It should be absolute law that everybody listens to the
Toast every second morning. And then yeah, of course, of course, yes,
actually no, this is my answer, not a purpose, sorry, just.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
The tost Oh thanks, all right, Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
No, it should be law like it should be an
NPR should be public radio.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
I love it. Yeah, that's a great love. Thanks, I
love it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
Thanks, and then I ultimately you know that affects my
bottom line.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
Clorodia, thank you so much, me too, Thank you. If
you love this episode, you will also love my interview
with Kendall Jenna on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:54):
You're in a child You could be reading something that
someone is saying about you and being like that is
so unfair because that's not who I am and that
really gets to me sometimes, But then looking at myself
in the mirror and being like, but I know who
I am. Why does anything else matter

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