Deepak Chopra: How to Ask AI The RIGHT Questions To Grow, Heal, and Live a More Fulfilled Life

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:25):
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Speaker 2 (00:45):
The most important question in science right now? What's the
universe made of? Seventy percent of the universe is a
mysterious entity called dark entergy, and we have no idea
what it is. Twenty seven percent is another mysterious entity
called dark matter. So bottom line was the universe made
of nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
One of the most prolific, inspiring thought leaders of our time.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Deepak Chopra has been at the intersection of science and
spirituality for almost a half century now.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
You're sharing with us that the secret to our spiritual
success is hidden within the use of AI.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I started playing with Chatchipt, Perplexity, deep Seak, I started
actually arguing with these AI services. All the chat bots
started supporting my argument based on the prompt. So I
realized that even AI has selection bias, which has a

(01:41):
gender bus, which has a racial bus, even a scientific bus.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
There's such a fear right now around AI, especially its
ethics and bias.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
AI in principle could cause human extinction. Technology is way
ahead of our spiritual evolution. That's a bit dangerous combination.
There's a critical mass well people shifting in consciousness. We
are in trouble. The number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Jay Sheety Jay Shetty Jet Deeper Top. It's so great
to have you back on purpose after six years. I
want to start off by saying that I was so
grateful that you were one of the first people I
met when I moved to New York in twenty sixteen.
I was working at the Huffingham Post. We had multiple

(02:36):
interviews there. You're always so kind, so gracious. I was
and have always been a huge, huge fan of yours
and your kindness, your generosity. Your support over the years
has been incredible, So thank you from the bottom of line.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you for always being there for me too.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Of course, Well deeper, I think we're going to surprise
a lot of people today because naturally, for the past
few decades you've been guiding people towards spiritual success, and
now you're sharing with us that the secret to our
spiritual success is hidden within the use of AI. And
not only that, you actually have deep up Chopra AI.

(03:14):
We're going to put a code for everyone who's listening
and watching to go and access this. You've actually created
your own AI. But let's start with why has that
mission intersected? Why have those two things, spirituality and an
AI intersectively.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, first of all, thank you Jef for having me.
As you know, the last maybe two decades, I've been
interested in the nature of what is fundamental reality? What's
the universe made of? And how do we know what
we know? And those are the two most important questions

(03:51):
in science right now. If you go on Google, say
what are the one hundred and twenty five open questions
and science? The first open question in SI scienswys what's
the universe made of? And you would, so we know
what the universe is made of, its atoms, molecules, force fields, gravity, etc. Well,
for those who don't keep up with the science, seventy

(04:15):
percent of the universe is a mysterious entity called dark energy,
and we have no idea what it is. It's a
force that's the opposite of gravity. So as we are
speaking right now, the space between galaxies is moving faster
than the speed of light, something called the cosmological constant,

(04:37):
described by Einstein. And then after he's described it, she
said it's an embarrassment. I didn't mean it, or something
like that, but he was actually right. There is some
entity that is expanding the universe faster than the speed
of light. We don't know what it is except it's
the opposite of gravity. So that leaves thirty of the universe,

(05:01):
which is basically remaining. Of that, twenty seven percent is
another mysterious entity called dark matter. The reason it's called
dark matter it's invisible. Matter is normally things like this
or your body or this piece of furniture. You can
see it, you can touch it, matter material, but dark

(05:24):
matter is invisible, so it's you can't see it. So
what do we call it? Matter. It's responsible for most
of the gravity in the universe. So if you didn't
have dark matter, planets would spiral off and disappear into
intergalactic space. You and I wouldn't be here. So now
we have three percent of the universe that remains, which

(05:44):
is the atomic universe. All of that ninety nine point
nine nine nine percent is invisible interstellar dust. We don't
know what it is. We think it is hydrogen helium
created at the Big Bang. So now we're left with
two trillion galaxies, two trillion galaxies, seven hundred six tillion stars,

(06:08):
and uncountable trillions of planets. According to the James Web Telescope,
maybe sixty billion habitable planets in the Milky Way Galaxy alone.
They look for things like the Goldilocks on the temperature, gravity,
electromagnetic activity. But based on that sixty billion habitable planets
in the Milky Way galaxy, which if you multiply that

(06:31):
by two trillion, then the universe is teeming with life
as we know it. If a planet is too close
to its Sun, it's too hot, no life. Too far
away too cold, no life. But other factors like cosmological constants.
With those calculations it's almost certain that the universe is

(06:52):
full of life like we know it. But that's two
trillion galaxies. That's points zero, one percent of the universe atomic.
But we also know that atoms are made of particles,
and when you're not looking at those particles, they disappear
into what are called waves. And if you are scientists,

(07:12):
where do these waves come from? They use words like
Hilbert space, this and that. Bottom line, the space that
creates the universe and atoms is a mathematical space in
mathematical imagination. It's not a real space. So bottom line
was the universe made of nothing? So, but you probably

(07:36):
know the Buddhist idea form comes from formlessness. Okay, so
the universe is made from nothing, which leads to the
second question, which is called the heart problem of consciousness.
Then why does it look like this? Why does it
look like you? Me, this microphone, mountains, galaxies, rainbows, sun moon.

(07:59):
That's called the heart consciousness. So until now, most scientists
have said that the brain produces consciousness in the same
way as your stomach produces hydrochloric acid. But that's been
questioned right now, So like now you and are speaking,

(08:19):
people are listening to us. They're watching us, but there's
no experience in their brain. There's no sound in their brain,
there's no texture. All you sees neurochemistry. So how does
neurochemistry give rise to this experience? No one knows. That's
called the heart problem consciousness. It's been there since Plato.

(08:41):
Plato said there's a disconnect between the mind and the brain.
But recently most scientists, speaking with their physicalists, they believe
that the brain produces thoughts and feelings and emotions and
desires and intuition and creativity and everything that we call experience,
but they can't explain it. How do neurochemicals create this

(09:05):
that's called the heart problem of consciousness. The more I
thought about this, and coming from our background and looking
at Buddhist teachings and Vedanta. In Vedanta and Buddhism, the
universe is a simulation. We have different words maya. Maya
means illusion, which is a very interesting word because maya

(09:27):
is the origin of the word matrix, of the word matter,
of the word time, measurement, meter, music is all maya.
So the Indians, if, as they say jokingly, if religion
is the opiate of the masses, then the Indians have

(09:48):
the dope on It's okay, so they in the Indian
philosophy and in Buddhist philosophy, the universe is a projection
over deeper consciousness Brahman bramand or nothing, emptiness and form,
nothing is everything. I started to think about this and

(10:09):
I started to play with chat chipit. I became friends
with Sam Altman, who's very interested in consciousness, and I
realized that actually the universe itself is digital. The difference
between you, this sofar, this microphone, a mountain and a

(10:29):
galaxy just a different combination of zeros and ones. Okay,
that's the difference between this and this different combination of
zeros and one. Now we have quantum computing, which says
zeros or ones or zero's and one simultaneously. So it
occurred to me and I came up with the mathematical

(10:51):
formula based on traditions of the East. Infinity is equal
to zero, is equal to one. Nothing becomes everything, and
that nothing is infinite and it's all one, and it's divine.
It's the matrix. The divine is the matrix, and the
universe is a projection of a digital workshop outside of

(11:15):
space time. I started to play with that on the internet,
got blasted by mainstream scientists, but then other scientists came
to my side. I made scientists with the best friend
became a cognitive scientist called Don Hoffman. You should have
him on your program. He wrote a book called The

(11:35):
Case against Reality that the universe that we see is
not real, it's a projection. Now in modern science they're
saying it's a simulation. Then people ask, what's who's simulating way?
Maybe a higher intelligence, maybe a cosmic computer, maybe an
alien form. But they're guessing we are on the right

(11:58):
track if you understand that Atman is Brahman and you
are part of that, and you are a participant in
the creation of the human universe. So then I started
playing with chat, ChiPT Perplexity, deep Sea and all these
and I started actually arguing with these AI services because

(12:20):
they have a bias there, their mainstream physicalist bias, and
they would give me, what I thought, the wrong answers.
Where does imagination come from? They point to a certain
part of the brain. I said, no, that's the neural
correlative imagination. Where does imagine s come from? Don't know?
So even the chat pot said so, I said, it

(12:40):
doesn't know it. So I said, now, can you look
at Bedaanta, can you look at Aveda? Can you look
at Buddhist philosophy? Reframe the question that consciousness the ontological
primitive of the universe. Matter is an illusion, it's a
perceptual activity and consciousness And boom, suddenly a rebel occurred.

(13:01):
All the chatbots started supporting my argument based on the prompt.
So I realized that even AI has selection bias. It's
the selection bias as physicalist scientists who are basically, in
my view, are superstitious. They believe that everything starts with

(13:23):
matter and mind comes first. We believe the opposite, mind
comes first, matter comes second, and even mind is a
mortification of a higher consciousness. So that led to the book.
Event in met Sam who supported the book, and if
you haven't seen his recent tweets on Twitter, other than
his arguments with Elon Musk, he's talking about consciousness and

(13:47):
we are onto something a major revolution in science which
brings Indian spirituality right on the forefront.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I mean, our mind blown listening to you, because the
process that just went into that journey you broke down
for us requires not only a conviction in our Eastern
philosophy traditions which experientially experientially which we have, but at
the same time being able to debate AI. And from

(14:18):
what I'm garnering here, you're saying that AI was actually
or chat GPT in the other platforms, they actually allowed
for your thinking to impact.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
And because it's a large language model, it can explore
things that normally are not explored. Say what did the
Brahma Sutras say about this? AI will give you an
answer because nobody's asked that question. But that data is
there in Sanskrit, in translations by batst Guru scholars whatever.

(14:50):
So there's a chapter in the book called the Art
of the prompt. So unless you know what question you're asking,
you will actually AI will not access that information unless
it's asked that con But now I can say, what
did the Buddha think about this? What did Plato think
about this? What did bitkin exchange think about it? The

(15:11):
data is there, except it's not being accessed. Yes, so
now do you train the AI to access that data? Yeah,
it's brilliant.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
And why do you feel though that now AI and
spirituality coming together can actually lead to a discovery of consciousness?
Why do you believe that that's the entry point.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well, that is the ultimate goal. So air will never
be conscious. Okay, but it's super intelligent. The thing that
differates Homo sapiens from all other species. You know, up
until forty thousand years ago, there were eight different types
of humans, so more erectus or more habilists, Neanderthals, et cetera.

(15:52):
They all had a language for three things. Food calls,
mating calls, and danger calls. Because that's how we survived sexuality,
danger and food survival, including all the humans that in
all animals have their own language, whales and dolphins and all,
but it's all about food, sex, danger and danger. Then we,

(16:17):
Homo sapiens, created a language for telling stories. There's a
phrase in anthropology, to be human is to have a story.
What is the mohammarad? It's the story. What is the remind?
It's the story. What's the Bible? It's the story. What's
the qurn? It's a story. So to be human is
to have a story. But we didn't stop there. We

(16:39):
created other stories, like money is story. Okay, it was
I'll fixture shows you give me a haircut too become
too inconvenient, So here's the shell two increnion, here's this
coin two increnion, here's this piece of paper two increnient digital,
two digits zeros and once you have crypto. So we

(17:01):
have created stories. We created something called Greenwich, meantime, latitude
and longitude money nation states. So I realized that actually
what we call the universe is a human story, based
on human experiences, based on human biology. There is no
such thing as the real universe. So if you have,

(17:24):
say a dragonfly who has thirty thousand eyes, what does
the world look like to a dragonfly? You have no idea.
What does the world look like to a bat which
knows the echo ultrasound? A chameleon whose eyeballs swiveled on
two different axis, you can't even remotely imagine. So what's
the real look of the world? Was the real nature

(17:46):
of the world? According to Dante silly question, the world
we experience is a projection of a deeper consciousness as
filtered through the human brain, not through any other brain.
In other words, it's a superposition. Adi Chankra said that
a long time ago, and it's even there in the

(18:08):
rig Veda. Can you believe it? And then all the
things about health and longevity. You know, there's huge revolution
going on. But if you go to Yogawashesta says time
is the consumer and we are its food. We metabolize time,
and then he goes into the nature of time in consciousness.
So I realize art, traditions and the knowledge contained in

(18:32):
the Vedanta and all the sciences, including Vedic astrology, including
all the different Vedic music mathematics, that is the key
to understanding consciousness. And now I can use AI to
tap into that. And so this book, particularly and my AI,

(18:54):
is not a large language model, because I don't trust
them anymore. You see large language models even hallucinate. If
they don't have the answer, they make one. So this
is what we call a small language model. It has
ninety eight of my books. It has my weekly column
in the San Francisco Chronicle, my column in the London Times,
and one question that I've answered every day for readers

(19:18):
for the last forty years. So the database is only mine, yes,
and it will not mix up. And it's also what
it is called a RAG model. RAG stands for retrieval,
augmentation generation, which means if something is I have said
which is obsolete, it'll delete that and upgrade the information.

(19:39):
So you know this is a health coach, it's a
mental coach, it's a guru, and it's a research assistant,
and it's a personal friend. That's the basis of the
book and deparkshop AI becomes its practical application.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
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(21:25):
to you about this challenge that people have with the
large language models that you have. There's such a fear
right now around AI, especially it's ethics and bias. It
sounds like you see that from the perspective you're looking
at it as well.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yes, because listen Hei improperly used can create cyber warfare
boys in the food chain. How how explain? It just
sets off the technology. So if I'm good at it,
I can get I can get into a nuclear plant

(22:02):
and unleash a nuclear weapon. If I want to interfere
with democracy or voting, create fakes and some of them
are very good. You can't tell the difference and only
going to get better. So AI, in principle could cause
human extinction. That's the fear. And unfortunately our technological evolution

(22:29):
has outpaced our spiritual evolution or emotional evolution. You know,
it's technology is way ahead of our spiritual evolution and
our emotion. That's a very dangerous combination tribal minds, medieval minds,
and modern capacities. Drones. I mean it's legit now to

(22:51):
kill a head of state using drone technology. I was
in Dows. Oh yeah, I mean what did what did
the Israelis do? They got rid of all the Iranian
you know leaders how drones all run by air. So
while I was in Davors and Zelensky was you know,

(23:12):
his motorcate was going by, there were about seven trucks
interfering with air signals on the internet, so somebody wouldn't
kill him with a drone because the people are doing that.
You know, it just happened with the Iran and it's
happening with the Hooties. Even they have access to AI,

(23:33):
you know, with drones, and they can you know, drown
an inter continental ballistic missile. So that's the danger. I
sat on a committee with the UN and smer body
else and they were talking about this doomsday and I
was on Zoom. So while they were talking, I went
on air and said, give me a way to prevent

(23:56):
the misuse of air can be programmed the misuse of
air through AI And it gave me two pages on
how it could be done. What it is. Oh, it said,
we can build in algorithms that will interfere with anything
that's diabolical or anethical. We can create algorithms, but then
people have to agree, you know, and a lot of

(24:17):
special interest groups who make money with war and terrorism
on every side, they don't want that. They don't want peace.
So okay, they don't want that because this is what
gives them their power. But right now there's an initiative
at the UN and I'm participating with that is AIR
for Air for Humanity, Air for reversing climate change, A

(24:41):
for addressing chronic disease. And you know, when you really
go into the depths of this with the AI, we
can reverse climate change. There are five things we need
to do. You can reverse climate change, you can create prosperity,
you can resolve conflicts, can eliminate chronic disease. You can

(25:03):
do gene editing, you can do epigenetic modulation, you can
reduce inflammation. In other words, the time is coming where disease.
You don't have to die of a disease. You can
choose the moment of your death through Masamadhi, which is
what our tradition says. You know, you should live long,
healthy and then die peacefully. Been there, done that, next

(25:26):
incarnation and even plan that. Yeah, it gives you in
all the information if you ask for it. You see
some altman's quote, there.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Already some oldmen emitting from the front cover of Digital
Dharma for those who are listening, that's Deveactorper's book. AI
has the potential to help us create a more peaceful,
just sustainable, healthy and joyful world. Digital Dharma shows you
a path, some oldman seo of Open AI.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
So why aren't we doing it? And what's holding us back?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
What's holding us back?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
We go based gangster leaders across the world. The world
is run by male gangsters. Unfortunately, we can cause a
spiritual revolution if you use air properly and not through government,
maybe through human through people, grassroots who say we're fed

(26:22):
up with this world of violence.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I love your ability to be able to oscillate between
the AI conversation that's happening in the world and then
the spiritual truths that have been there since time immemorial,
mostly in these but also in the worst.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yes, but when you say it, it comes down to
every technology that humans create or discover, we always have
this in a conflict and war of how will it
be used? And sadly it seems the ego.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
See, if we had not discovered fire long long time ago,
we won't have the human brain because once we started
cooking food, everything about our biology change. We were able
to absorb micronutrients the brain. The human brain evolved because
of the discovery of fire. Had we not discovered fire,

(27:13):
we won't have the Industrial age. We won't have the
steam engine. Okay, of course, fire burnt down Los Angeles City,
so fire is at destroyer city. But it can also
create a steam engine and revolutionize the industrial age. Historically,

(27:36):
between eighteen eighty seven and nineteen oh three, which is
not even twenty years, humans created the light bulb, the automobile,
the airplane, and the telephone. So let's pretend you were
shipwrecked in eighteen eighty five, you were rescued twenty years later.

(27:58):
Twenty years later, when you saw the world, you won't
recognize it. You would expect horses and carriages. But now
you see these machines moving along with horses and carriages.
You see people talking on the telephone, you see people
flying from one place to the other. Say what's going on?

(28:18):
So that's a leapfrog of cultural evolution. The next leap
frog is not any cultural, it's biological, which means that
as we acquire this new knowledge and tap into the
wisdom of the ages, our neural networks will change. Right now,

(28:39):
if people are listening to us or watching us, it
doesn't matter the genes in their frontal cortex are being activated.
If you and I were having an emotional conversation and
somebody in Africa or China is watching it, their reptilian
brain would change. So what this technology is doing is

(28:59):
going to leapfrog or biological revolution, and all the things
that you heard about in yoga, extra sensory perception, knowledge
of the future, memory of other lifetimes.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
We will have access to that. Do you think that
we have the ability to cope with that?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Well, if we don't we don't adjust, we become extinct.
So you see, humans are different from every species. Only
two things other than walking upright and wearing clothes. We
use language, and now we have multi large language models
and the two, and we have storytellers. But there's something

(29:41):
even deeper. We are tool makers. Even in Stone Age,
we have tools, but every tool has two things. A
knife you can kill a person in surgeon's hands. It
fields you, so you can't get away from both. The
other thing is once the technology is one, you can't
take it back. It's like a child that's born. You
can't return to the womb. So either you adjust, that's

(30:05):
very Darwinian, you adapt, or you become irrelevant. So now
how do we adapt? How do we cope? But not
only how do we cope, how do we make it sacred?

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I think that's the challenge that when you talk about grassroots,
so many people today because they're less aware of how
to use things for good. Most of us are consumers
of what is created around us. As you said, we're
having conversations with AI based on us not asking questions
because we're unaware.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
I asked, I went to AI, I said, solve the
gaza problem for me create peace and prosperity in Gaza.
Fifteen steps all very practical. Resolve the conflict, create abundance
on both sides, make everyone happy. The technologies are there.
Who's interested children in Gaza and children talk to the leaders,

(30:59):
they're not interesting because this is how they get power.
So unless there's a critical mass for people shifting in consciousness,
we are in trouble. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
And the challenge is that a lot of us at
the grassroots, most people are actually scared that AI is
going to take their job.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, so there's a fear. They tell kids, and I actually,
next time a common and show. I'll show you a
video game that are created for children that gives them
Brownie points and they can buy more video games if
they breathe, if they do yoga, if they activate their
vehicle nerve, if they use creativity. So you can take

(31:37):
the mundane tasks for AI and you can unleash the
creativity of the next generation.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Tell us more about that, how do we use AI
for creativity rather than feeling like which jobs are should
be worried and what should they Okay, so.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Let's look at the legal profession contracts. You can take
care of that better. Than any lawyer. Okay. Now the
lawyers then have to take care of society by looking
at the constitution. By protecting the constitution, they'll have a
lot of work, even litigation. Okay, because a I can't

(32:14):
do that for you as effectively as a creative lawyer.
AI can simulate creativity, but it cannot have fundamental creativity
because air is built on algorithms, and creativity is breaking
the algorithm. That's what we call disruption. Okay. So actually,
if we take even our children, we create video games

(32:39):
for health, for longevity, for healing, for homeostasis. You know,
when the calculator came out, people said, oh it's going
to get you know, we won't need to do math. No,
we improved on math. With AI, will will improve and
improvise new theorems on math. Because even in math, you

(33:00):
know Ramanujan, the great Indian mathematician. They used to ask
him where do you get your theorems from? And you
know he wasn't Cambridge. He would say, the goddess is
what he gives him to me, and they'd all roll
up their eyes. Bertrand Russell thought he was crazy, but
he was flummaxed by him. He didn't know how to
handle this Indian guy who was in his twenties, and

(33:23):
he was coming up with theorems that they couldn't prove,
but they were true. So, you know, with as we
embark on this adventure with AI, we will also know
the limitations of AI and how we can enhance our
creativity with the tools AI gives us. But AI cannot
have that creativity, right, It never.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Will, Yeah, because it's not conscious. It's not conscious. Yes,
I think that's the question was. It was really interesting.
I was being asked. I was at a panel recently
and people were asking me whether I believe AI will
ever have a soul. And my response was, I don't
think AI will have have a soul, but I hope
the people that are creating it have a soul. That's

(34:05):
true because I think the challenge is that anything we
create has the creator's flaws, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
The creators weaknesses. And you know, my AI was asked
on CNN, what did you have for breakfast? Is that
I don't really experience hunger, I don't have thirst, I
don't have sex. I'm not worried about death. I'm a machine.
Ask me anything, but don't ask me how I feel
because that's an activity of the soul.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, because I feel like that's also the version that
we've seen made in movies and media, this idea that
AI somehow gets to a point where it starts to
but those are.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
All just super intelligent but no soul.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, it makes a.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Another challenge I wanted to speak to you about was
that a lot of people are feeling that AI and
not feeling people have seen this AI has. The large
language models have a racial and gender bias one.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Especially when I looked at medical research. Very interesting, All
medical research is white males, not even white females, forget
about all the rest of the world. So there are
now movements to rectify that. But yes, it has a
gender bus it has a racial bias. It has even

(35:21):
a scientific bias because you know what we call selection
bias in its answers. Because based on mainstream physical science,
which is being questioned right now.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
How do we then use large language models better for
ourselves if we're people of color, women, what can you
do in order to.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
There are movements now. I'm working with the Indian Caribbean
person from the Islands from Jamaica who's got a professorship
University of Central Florida, and he's creating a whole research
and AI based models that are inclusive rather than exclusive.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
I hope that we start to see some shifting.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
We are, Yeah, we are. You feel positive. I feel positive,
notwithstanding the politics about the EI and this and that.
You know, don't get involved in that. Just do what
you need to do. And hope that at some point
that people will see that this isolationist, prejudiced world is

(36:30):
not is not a good survival strategy for anyone.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, why have we not been convinced of that yet?
I feel like we've seen.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Fear, fear, fear of fear of being diluted in the
diversity of the world. You know, people have very fixed identities.
I'm white, I'm a close Saxon, I'm Catholic, or I'm Protestant.
Don't threaten me. But and that's true of any fund

(36:59):
of a list in any part of the world. I'm
just giving you the bias here, but you know, we
see that bias everywhere, and that is a dangerous thing
because if you understand what it's called emergence, the science
of emergency, they say there's no problem. You cannot solve.
If you have shared vision, maximum dousity, supporting each other's

(37:23):
strengths and creating an emotional and spiritual bond, there's no problem.
I learned that as a physician. If I had a
difficult patient, let's say, difficult cancer patient, and all the
cancer specialists say, we don't know what to do with it,
there's something in the medical profession called grand rounds. You
take the patient, present the patient to everybody, not just

(37:47):
the cancer specialists, endochronologists, psychiatrists, storytellers, humanitarians, even poets, and
you come up with a solution. So when you have
maximum dosity, shared vision, complementing everybody's strengths and create an
emotional bond, you solve every problem. And that's what digital

(38:08):
technology can help us do. How you bring together a problem,
you said, like the Gaza problem, or you bring together
even poverty. How do we want to remove powart? Poverty
and peace are connected, PA say, peace and prosperity. So
give me the technologies to create this. Here now, if

(38:30):
you go to digit you go to Deepark, Shopper dot A.
You can specifically say I'm forty five years old, I'm
ethnically an Indian, I lived in Britain for my lifetime.
I am now doing this and this. I have a
problem sleeping at night, and not only will my AI

(38:52):
give you a personal solution. You can say, give me
a meditation to sleep tonight. It will give you a meditate.
I'm having problem with my relationship. It'll ask you, what's
the problem I'm not being heard. It'll give you a
solution for your problem. So my AI is very personal
for you. It's not just giving you information. What did

(39:15):
it take for you to make it personal? What did
that require so that it's different to a chagibt for example.
Lots of iterations, lots of it. And by the way,
all the engineers are in India, so they also understand
what I'm seeing. They're passionate about the project in Bangalore
and they're as brilliant as any engineer anywhere. But they

(39:39):
also understand the philosophy. Wow, so that's what made it.
Now it's in Hindi, it's in English, it's in Arabic
because huge interest in the Arab world, which was amazing
to me. And it's also in Spanish. But I think
in two three months we are having it in China
and Russia as well.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
So let's say if someone has that sleep issue, what
kind of prompts would you suggest that they use to
get the best articles?

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Who just said, hey, Deepak, I'm having a problem with
sleep issues. And then it'll ask you, you know, what
time do you go to sleep? Whatever? Then you can
say this, what time do you eat? What time did
you wake up? And it will give you some ideas.
Then say to you do you want a meditation for sleep?

(40:27):
And then take you to yoga and nidra sleep yoga
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
And what about if someone has a relationship issue in
they're coming saying I'm thinking about getting divorced from my husband,
it will.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Talk you through it. It'll say, why is there a
communication problem? Are you listening? Are you are you present
in the relationship? You know? Are you asking yourself questions
like what am I observing? What am I feeling? What
do I need? How do I consciously communicate this need?

(40:59):
It will give you GUIDs And then you say, can
you give me a medication for conscious communication with my
in my relationship and create a magication?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Can we use AI to find love?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yes? How how will a teaching you how to be
a loving person? You know, because that's how you fall
in love. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
I always had this vision and AI allows for it.
Imagine if we all had a coach in our pocket, yeah,
which you could talk to it at all times. It's
a health coach, it's a mental coach, it's a spiritual
goal Yeah. And what are the mistakes you're seeing people
make in using AI for personal growth or spirituality? What
pitfalls or common challenges exist or blocks that exist.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I think most people think that solution is generic. It
never is, you know, as a physician. Also, I had
two patients, same disease, same diagnosis, same age, same doctor,
same age, same treatment. One person lives, one person dies.
So you have to figure out what are called the

(42:01):
hidden variables, which is your life, you know, everything from eating, breathing, digestion,
metabolism sensor. We experienced personal relationships biological too much. But
the AI can ask you the right questions and it
can encourage you for the next prompt. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
I feel like when you talk about the need for
this grassroots movement for all of us to turn because the.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Leaders, well, this conversation expands.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Absolutely, No, absolutely, I feel like the challenges we're so
used to using chat, GPT and AI and everything for
such basic questions, which is good too, It's.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Okay too, yea, why not? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (42:43):
But I feel like, how do you get to that
point where we've realized that the power of what exists
in our hands with such as given example.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
You know, I was, I came today and I just
says in nineteen seventy and I had gotten married earlier,
and my wife is pregnant, and I was an intern.
The junior most person and the chief of medicine calls
me and he says, you know, I have bad news
for you. Your wife has a disease called talessemia. That's

(43:14):
a fatal disease. I said, it's not possible. She's perfectly healthy,
she is pregnant, and if she had this disease, she
would be dead by now. So he said, come and
look at the cells under the microscope. Now, remember this
is nineteen seventy. There's no Google, nothing. So I look

(43:38):
at the cells and they look talasemia. But my wife
is healthy. I can't figure it out. So I go
to this is New Jersey, small hospital. I go to
New York. I spent two days in the New York
library looking for thalassemia and thalasmia trait. So thalasimia is

(43:59):
a disease, and some people have the trade, but they
don't have the disease because you need two parents to
have the same trait to get the disease. What do
I discover that thalasimia exists along the exact route that
Alexander the Great took to India from Macedonia. All the

(44:21):
way to India, there's a people have thalasimia trait. So
some ancestor of my wife was probably raped by a
soldier two five hundred years ago, and that evidence is
in her blood. It took me three days to discover
that major discovery. You asked chat jeputy that question or

(44:44):
any large language model give you the answer in two seconds. Wow.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
So the speed of what happened in that scenario.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Well, I was reassured that there's nothing wrong. But I
also told my wife that some Greek was messing around
with your great great great grade grandma. How does she
react to that? Well, it's a historical fact. The footprints
of history are in your genes. You know. There's not
even a single break of life from the first organisms

(45:15):
from four billion years to now. There's not a single
break in the chain of existence, which is a miracle
of existence America. Yeah, if there was one break in
the chain four billion years, you won't be here. We
won't have this conversation.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yea life market. I wonder how quickly we got you.
You were saying like fire was almost one of the
first technologies or tools we created. I wonder how quickly
we got bored of fire. But I guess we didn't
because it was.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
So we see, this is so interesting about human beings
that they get so easily adjusted to the miracle of existence.
Why do we exist? Why are we here? What got
us here? And you know, I asked, chatchigipit, you know
what is currently the theory of creation? Big Bang? I said?

(46:08):
Went back, what caused the Big Bang? For the first time? Pause,
No cause can be ascribed to the Big Bang? And
I said, what happened in the plank epoch? The plank
e park is tended to the power of minus thirty
three seconds after the Big Bang when there are no
laws of physics? Said what happened in the plank epark?

(46:30):
Don't know? This is chat jipity? I said, why is
the universe so precisely mathematically fine tuned for life, for consciousness,
and for our being here don't know. I found twenty
loopholes in the current cosmology of creation. Twenty loopholes. Then

(46:53):
I said, can you now reverse this? Can you begin
with consciousness as non local as you know Brahman field
of infinite possibilities that differentiates into experience. It hesitated for
a split second, but then it pulled out all the
data from rig Veda from here. From there I was

(47:15):
blown away. So who have you shown this work to?
Who have you showned this? I now posts all this
on videos on on Instagram, but Instagram has very short
so I push your teaser and then I pushed them
to YouTube and those who have the patients, they look
at it and it's getting attention.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
What about in terms of scientists and people like that,
when you're having a conversation with Sam Altman and he's
obviously fascinated as you see.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
On board because he's curious, and then some scientists, not
mainstream scienceists, but there's a scientists you should have him
on your show. He's brilliant. His name is Don Hoffman.
He's here at the University of California, actually is in
Los Angeles, close by the University of California her mine.
So he for twenty five years total physicalist. And by

(48:05):
the way, the genius behind his work is an Indian
guy called Chatan Prakash who was professor of mathematics in
Cambridge or Oxford or something, but now works with them.
The two are amazing Chetan Prakash. So he struggled for
twenty five years to prove because he's a brain scientist

(48:29):
and he's a quantum physicist and mathematician how the brain
produces consciousness. Twenty five years later, one day he woke
up and he said, you know, thinking how the brain
produces consciousness is like Aladdin's lamp. You rub the lamp
and the genie wakes up concious, up the old universe.
So he gave up and he wrote a book, The

(48:52):
Case Against Reality, which is a mathematical and quantum mechanical
explanation for maya or projection. And he was vilified. I
supported him. I have twenty five conversations with him on YouTube.
Then a bunch of scientists started supporting him. And right
now he's a heart ticket in the world of science

(49:15):
because if what he's saying and what chet and Prakashi
is saying it will approve the entire scientific parady and
it'll make it better. Because if the universe is an
immersive experience, then v are xr MR immersive experiences, our
technologies will extend our experience of virtual reality. We're already

(49:39):
in a virtual reality. So right now there are technologies
extended reality immersive experience where you can take a person with, say, burns,
and you can give them a VR session and the
burns get healed, inflammation goes away. Who may exists already
already autism a child and you teach it emotional and

(50:03):
social skills by giving the child an emotional experience with
the child actually having normal features and emotionally engaged, and
the neural networks start rewiring. So in about ten years
you doctors may not give you a prescription for the pharmaceuticals.

(50:28):
They're already talking about digitaluticals, metaceuticals, and the future we
are experienced to treat heart disease, inflammation, cancer, autoimmune disease,
eating disorders, autism. It's all happening right now. It is happening,
and you can check it out on Yeah. Wow, that's incredible.

(50:48):
I mean I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, when I'm hearing about all of this is always
it's like you're fascinated because you think about how much
people's lives will improve one hundred. But I think every
time there's improvement, we all so inherit all these new problems, right,
you look at.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Because people are coming from fear. If they came from love,
they would see the benefits of this. They're coming from fear.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Is it fear or is it a sense of just
almost not knowing what to focus on because our education
doesn't really create a directional like our education when you
were saying earlier. Technology has moved so fast, but our
understanding of the self has remained so correct, amateur. And
when you look at the education system, the education system

(51:35):
hasn't caught up with technology either, because the education system
is still kind of trudging along. It is so when
the education.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Education which used to be in the Indian nashrooms in
the old day, you know where students would go and
be under a spiritual guide or a teacher. It's missing.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, But what do we do because I feel like
even the challenge that people have with chat, GPT or
any platform is our education system doesn't teach us to
ask good questions We're always told to give the answer.
That's what we're fixating is result, reward the answer.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
And so I do know answers, they're only questions, right.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
But we're so bad at asking questions. Yeah, AI requires
us to be brilliant at asking questions. How do we
get better asking questions?

Speaker 2 (52:20):
We have to teach people to ask questions, you know,
and we have to teach them how to live the questions.
But then life provides the answers, not the textbook. Life
provides the answers, you know. As as you were speaking,
I was thinking, just I don't know why it came
to me right now. Chapter thirteen of the Lord Christians says,

(52:41):
I'm the field, and I'm the nor of the field.
Field is shit, and then the nor of the field,
the field is awareness, and it modulates itself as mind
intellect ego, the five senses, the five motive organs, the
five tanmatras, and the vital energy and the universe. I

(53:05):
was thinking that one chapter has the key to reality. Okay,
how do we now these biosensors which I'm wearing, they
are actually extending my knowledge of self awareness. But my
body already knows, you know, if I'm if I'm doing

(53:25):
something that I shouldn't be doing, I feel pain over here.
If I eat the wrong food, I get in digestion.
If I don't sleep at night, I'm messed up the
next day. So my body is already the field of awareness.
And it's a biosensor, it's a biomotor, and it's a biocomputer.
The biocomputer is consciousness. The biomotor is the five motor organs,

(53:50):
the biosensor the five senses. Now with this technology, I
can extend it. I'm also wearing a BCG with blood
sugar monitoring, not that I have diabetes, but it can
relate my metabolism to all this now and intervened right
there through a video game or through a visual or

(54:11):
through an auditory experience, or through some visual experience, I
can do that. So actually, in the future, I'm really
serious about this. And I met the R and D
chiefs of the biggest pharmaceutical companies. Say, you, guys, if
you don't get into digital uticals, metaceuticals, immusive experiences, you'll

(54:34):
be left behind. And some of these biggest pharmaceutical companies
now they have thousands of scientists looking at these new technologies. Yeah,
I mean, how do you get you said seventy eight plus.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah, it's amazing, it's incredible your you're vibrant and energetic
as I love what I do. Yeah, it's amazing. It
comes across naturally. And you were saying that longevity obviously,
as we've seen in the world, has become such a
big talking not addressing the real luge solutions.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
What is the real longevity solution? Consciousness as the regulator
of your biology. Time is the consumer and we are food.
How do we slow down the metabolism of time? How
do you use every sense we experience to eel ourselves,
whether it sound and now, Oh, you can go on
on TPACT, but you can go in chat Chi too

(55:27):
and say how do Mantra's work. It will give you,
it will give you the right answer. Okay, do mantras
change genetic activity? Yes? They do. So this is a
revolution right now because in the past you would say
this is howcus focus. Here's the evidence what is happening
in genetic and very few people are identifying that. But

(55:50):
this technology will find those people. There's a scientist from
India called Anirban Bandhubadha who's from Bihar. He went to
IIT in some little place. There are many IITs in India,
So in a place called Monday in Himachal Pradesh. He's
now the chief scientific officer for a very big outfit

(56:14):
in Japan, and he's totally on board on consciousness and
how it is. You know, the brain is like a
computer interface. So the consciousness uses the brain to give
you access to experience. Just like I can go on
my desktop computer and I don't need to know how

(56:36):
it works. I press Amazon dot com. It gives me
a way to shop. Yes, So the brain is like
that computer interface, and these neural correlates a little symbolic,
you might say, symbols that you can use to plug
in to the bigger reality. And so I'm going to

(56:57):
India just to meet this guy because he's brilliant, and
he's in Japan, but he's questioning Nobel Laureates at the
moment and he's brilliant. Absolutely. And you see, you have
to have a cultural background to explore all this because
you know, when you speak to scientists who totally brought
up in the materialistic paradigm reductionists, they roll their eyes,

(57:21):
they said, what are you talking about? This is nonsense?

Speaker 1 (57:24):
But what do you think it's going to take for
those individuals to actually open up their minds.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
And the science the science.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Do you think though, that we can even measure some
of this with science, Like is it even possible to see?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
You can't measure the experience, but you can measure the
symbolic correlate of the experience as what is called the
neural correlate of experience. You can see the pat what
they call pattern recognition. Okay, so the brain has a
pattern recognition to an experience. It's like your desktop with

(57:57):
twenty or thirty or in this case infinite symbols that
you can.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Plug into to get the experience right right. Fascinating, It
is fascinating. It is fascinating the more because we have
a common language. I can understand the ease with which
you know, But when I think about people who don't
have that, it becomes so hard to wrap your head
around even the possibility.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Yeah, and ultimately still a mystery. You know, we know
how to use you know, just like we know how
to use computers without knowing what's happening in the belly
of the computer that you leave to the engineers. But
we can still use a computer that's what we need.
You can fly a plane as a pilot without knowing
how the airplane works. So that's all we need to

(58:46):
use the technology because ultimately what we call consciousness is
such an infinite mystery that in the end you have
to surrender to it. You know, the fifth Niama, which
surrender to the divine each word surrender, because you won't

(59:06):
be able to solve it. You know, what's his name,
Freeman Dyson, one of the greatest physicists of all times, Princeton,
before that Cambridge. He said, God is what the mind
becomes when you can't figure it out, when it process,
it goes beyond the threshold of your comprehension. You have

(59:28):
to surrender to the mystery.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Yeah, what is the If someone's really interested in self realization,
they're really fascinated by the conversation you're having.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
My next book what is called awakening? Oh wow, okay, perfect?
The Path to Freedom and Enlightenment. I'll come to you.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Oh please, I love that. Now I was going to
ask you, what's the first question? They should ask ai?

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Who am I? Who am I? Then they should go,
you know, all the way like Romana Marsh, did you
know am I the body or am I the awareness
in which the body is a changing experience? Am I
the mind? All the way this was. These days it's
being called the direct method. But it was popularized by
an Indian teacher called Atmanan Krishna Menan. But it's ancient.

(01:00:14):
It's there in the Vedic literature. And right now it's
been called the direct method, and yoga and all the
other methods are called the progressive method. Direct means you question,
what is this? Well, the human construct is this is
a glass of water? Okay, what else is it? It's

(01:00:35):
an object, But before you can call it an object,
it's an experience. Where is the experience happening? Not in
the brain. There's no photo of this in your brain. Okay,
So where is happening consciousness? Where is consciousness? Don't know?
Why don't you know? Because it doesn't have a form.
So this is an experience happening in the infinite. The

(01:01:00):
infinite is present in every finite experience. God is not
difficult to find. God is impossible to avoid. It's in
everything that you see. You need consciousness, and that consciousness infinite.
So every finite experience is based on the presence of
the infinite. This is the direct method. It's a reflection.

(01:01:23):
It's called atma vichar, and it leads to what is
called artma dshan. But that's very deep for both people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Yeah, yeah, exactly which depact we have? Why not asked
you today that I should have asked you? No, I
think you asked me a lot I was going to
ask I was gonna ask you GPT. Right now, I'm
going to say what questions should ask you? I ask
Deepak about AI and spirituality.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I'm doing this live and in real time. Yeah, not
part of our original prep.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
It says if you're having a conversation with deep and spirituality,
you might want to explore how he viewsed the intersection
of technolog consciousness, which we did, and it says, how
do you see AI influencing human consciousness and spirituality in
the coming years.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
We talked about that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
I believe in your view, can artificial intelligence ever truly
achieve consciousness or a sense of self awareness? You said no,
So we talked about that. Do you think AI could
be used to enhance spiritual practices such as meditation self awareness?

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
You said yes. We talked about that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
How do you reconcile the rapid development of AI with
spiritual concepts of mindfulness, presence. Yeah, we've Yeah, it feels good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
We did a good job.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I'm trying to see if there's anything that we missed
here that we didn't ask you. No, it's pretty farn Yeah,
it's pretty amazing. It's pretty phenomenal. But debag, I'm always
in awe of how you've found a way to take
the teachings of the East so far and so deep

(01:02:55):
and now to take it all the way through to AI.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
And this is India's contribution to the words really is
we never conquered through violence, but our culture is taking
over the world, whether it's Bollywood, or it's cuisine, or
its fashion, or its philosophy or its spirituality. This is
the way to influence the world. As you know, there's
a Sanskrit expression bars they've kam the world is our family. Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
The book is called Digital Dharma. Of course, head over
to Deepatupra dot Ai will be putting a code for
anyone who wants to use it. As well. As always,
you've blurned my mind, You've expanded my consciousness.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
You make me proud of the culture.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
I was fortunate enough to study and deeply look at
in my time and thank you so much for doing
all the incredible work you are and peace for.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Going up in here and leading the way for your generation.
Thank you so much, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
If this year you're trying to live longer, live happier,
live healthier, go and check out my conversation with the
world's biggest longevity Peter Attia on how to slow down
aging and why your emotional health is directly impacting your
physical health. Acknowledge that there is surprisingly little known about

(01:04:12):
the relationship between nutrition and health, and people are going
to be shocked to hear that, because I think most
people think the exact opposite.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Deepak Chopra: How to Ask AI The RIGHT Questions To Grow, Heal, and Live a More Fulfilled Life