Dr. David Spiegel: 10-MINUTE Hypnosis Hack to Rewire Your Brain & Reduce Stress 80% Faster

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hypnosis is a state of highly focused attention. Have you
ever gotten so caught up in a good movie that
you kind of forget you're watching a movie? Absolutely, you
become part of the movie instead of part of the audience.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
World renowned psychiatrist expert on self hypnosis, doctor David.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Spiegel, How do we change ourselves? Deal with the aspect
of the threat and you can control it? Wow, your
boss may have said something awful to you, but your
body doesn't have to react that way.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Is it possible to control others with hypnosis?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
The number one health and well in the.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Podcast Jay Shet, Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,
the place you come to become the happier, healthier and
more healed.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
You know that I love sitting down with thought leaders
and experts who introduce us to new modalities and ideas
and insights that can improve our daily lives. Today's guest
is someone I've been really excited to talk to. I'm
speaking to doctor David Spiegel, who's a Wilson Professor and
Associate Chair of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, director of the

(01:07):
Center on Stress and Health, and medical director of the
Center for Integrative Medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine.
Doctor David Spiegel is the founder of Reverie, the world's
first interactive self hypnosis app. You can download it as
soon as you want to while you're listening to this conversation.
Doctor Spiegel has more than forty five years of clinical

(01:30):
and research expertise, has published thirteen books, four hundred and
four scientific journal articles, and his work has been supported
by the National Institute of Mental Health, the National Cancer Institute,
and so many more. Please welcome to On Purpose, doctor
David Spiegel. David, it's great to have you here. Thank
you for being here.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Thank you so much. Jay. I'm delighted to be here
talking with you.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm so fascinated by your work and I'm so excited
I get to bring it to my community and audience.
And I wanted to start off because I really want
to take the audience on a journey today to really understand.
I think hypnotherapy and hypnosis are words and ideas and
things that we've heard about for a long period of time,
but we have a very limited understanding of what it

(02:15):
actually is. So I'd love to start with what is
hypnosis and what are some of the misconceptions about it.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Hypnosis is, oddly enough, the oldest Western conception of a psychotherapy,
the first time a talking interaction was thought to have
therapeutic benefit. And I think there's much overlap some of
the things you do and think like a monk, you know,
focusing on visualization, on controlling or breathing, on visualizing things

(02:43):
that can be ways of being different. And hypnosis is
a state of highly focused attention. It's like getting Have
you ever gotten so caught up in a good movie
that you kind of forget you're watching a movie? Absolutely
so you become part of the movie instead of part
of the audience. Now, what you're doing when you're doing
that is using for consciousness what a telephoto lens does

(03:04):
for a camera. You see what you see with great detail,
but you're less aware of the context. You dissociate other
things you would ordinarily be aware of. Our brains are
processing thousands of things all the time, what's going on
in the body, noises, potential threats, all kinds of things.
But in hypnosis you narrow the range of focus. And
for example, right now you're having sensations in your body

(03:27):
touching these nice chairs, but hopefully you weren't even aware
of that. If you're ware, we could stop the interview
right now. So we all do that. We can put
out of awareness things that would ordinarily be inawares and
hypnosis you focus intently, you dissociate, and the third thing
you do is you disconnect from your ordinary ways of

(03:48):
being and thinking. And this is where I think there's
a lot of similarity between meditation, mindfulness and what you
do in hypnosis, which is you kind of get over yourself,
but in a somewhat different way. You suspend your view
of yourself and you try out being different. Now, the
thing that scares a lot of people is that many

(04:10):
people have been to one of these awful stage shows,
you know, where they've seen the football coach dance like
a ball arena. And I don't like making fun of people.
But at the same time, there is a point, and
the point is for us to change. And that's what
your life's work is about now, is how do we
change ourselves? How do we not get trapped in sort
of wrote desires or I love that there was a

(04:33):
quote you had about how life is too short to
spend your time living somebody else's life, you know, And
I think what you can do in hypnosis, in narrowing
your focus of attention in dissociating is suspend your usual
view feeling about what you're like and try out being different.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Absolutely, yeah, I believe those Steve jobs Is said.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
That, Yes, such Steve Jobs, such a.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Powerful message, and I really appreciate the way you're explaining
hypnosis and hypnotherapy. I find that what would you say
are the common uses or because I think again, like
you said, you've seen something on stage, or you've seen
it in a movie, and it's used to often manipulate someone,

(05:18):
or it's used to extract information, it's used for some
sort of heist right in the movie or entertainment world.
How would you find hypnosis or hypnotherapy being useful as individuals?
Where does it become something that any one of us
can access, use, utilize a need.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well, the thing is that hypnosis is really a naturally
occurring ability that people have to varying degrees, but it's
something that we just don't tap. And all hypnosis is
really self hypnosis. So just like you try to teach people,
you do teach people how to meditate, how to be

(05:57):
mindful of what they're doing, you're helping them discover a
capacity within themselves that they can use. Hypnosis is very
similar in that sense that most people have some ability
to narrow their focus, and it's not a loss of control,
it's a gain of control. You're learning that you can
filter heart out of pain, that you can get to

(06:19):
sleep better, that you can manage stress in a way
that doesn't keep it proliferating, but teaches you to control it.
I saw a man yesterday who a brilliant professor, who
had radiation to his nose because he had a tumor
there that needed to be treated, and he had terrible

(06:43):
sensitivity in his noses, in his mouth, and he tried everything.
He tried like seven different ways to neutralize the nerve signals.
He took medications, he did all. It didn't work, and
he was getting more and more frustrated because his life
was his words and he was a tea and couldn't
stand the thought of not being able to do that

(07:03):
because he was so frustrated by it. And he found
with a few minutes of learning self hypnosis that he
could reduce the interference by fifty percent. He was amazed.
He said, you know, my hand is feeling light and
I feel some waves going through it, and I had
him touch his face and kind of spread those waves,

(07:23):
and he felt different right away. He was amazed. His
wife was sitting and watching and she said, I'm not surprised,
but it is a way of altering the way we
manage our focus of attention, our processing of sensory input,
and so literally we can filter the heart out of
the pain. We can manage stress better by focusing from

(07:44):
on the body up rather than the head down. You know,
we often think, well, if I just figure out what's
stressing me, and you know, decide is not a portin,
or figure out a better way to do it, I
won't be stressed. But what happens with stress is usually
it's from the up that you see something that threatens you.
We're pretty pathetic physical creatures. We don't run that fast,

(08:07):
we don't smell that well, we don't hear that well,
and so normally we have to re evolved because we
treated most stressors as physical threats and you better get
your heart rate up, in your blood pressure up, be
ready to fight or flee. But most of the stresses
we have now are not life threats. So if you
respond physically your body's telling your brain, oh my god,

(08:30):
this is really terrible, and the brain thinks, oh, yeah,
this really I feel bad. This must be really bad,
and it's like a snowball rolling downhill. And with hypnosis,
you can deal with the aspect of the threat that
actually makes you most worried about it, and you can
control it. You can say, well, your boss may have
said something awful to you, but your body doesn't have

(08:51):
to react that way. So imagine you're floating in a bath,
the lake tubb or floating in space, and then picture
on an imaginary screen your boss on one side and
what you might say or do on the other in
the context of feeling physically more comfortable. So hypnosis is
a way of, in a very focused way, controlling mind
and body interactions in a way that helps you handle

(09:13):
them better.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
And can you look us through, David, the neurobiology what's
happening to our brain in this period? Because I think again,
often people have looked at some of these modalities as
being wo wo or being slightly alternative, et cetera. But
what's actually happening from a neuroscience perspective.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, well, I've lived with it for a long time
But we've spent a decade studying what's going on in
the brain using functional magnetic resonance imaging with people who
are high and low and hypnotizability in and out of
hypnotic states, and we find three things happen in the
brain when you go into hypnosis. The first is you

(09:54):
turn down activity in the anterior cingulate cortext that's part
of what we call the same alience network. It's a
pattern matching region of the brain that says there's something
different going on here. Maybe you better look out. So
you hear a loud noise and you think, is it
a threat? What is it? That's the salience network firing off,
saying there may be trouble here, you're better attend to it.

(10:16):
You turn down activity in that part of the brain.
The singulate cortex is like an inverted sea right in
the middle of the brain, and the front part of
it is the salience network. We found that the more
hypnotized people felt, the less activity there was in that
part of the brain, So you're turning off the home
alarm system and just letting yourself experience what you experience.

(10:38):
We find actually that the more hypnotizable people are the
more of an inhibitory neurotransmitter, gamma aminobuteric acid they have
in the anterior cingulate. So it's the drug that benzodiazepines,
anti anxiety drugs actually stimulate GABBA receptors, and so that's

(11:00):
how we can control ourselves. We can reduce anxiety, but
you don't need a drug to do it. You can
do it yourself. The second thing that happens is we
have more functional connectivity between the dorsalateral prefrontal cortex on
the left and a part of the rank called the insuli.
It's Latin for island, and it's a little island of

(11:20):
tissue in the middle of the front part of the
brain that is a mind body conduit. So when you're
when that connection is happening, you have more ability to
control what's happening in your body, to control heart rate
and blood pressure, your level of arousal, to control of
the functioning of the gastrointestinal system. We found that highly

(11:42):
hypnotizable people given a hypnotic construction to imagine imaginary meal
actually increase their gastric acid secretion by eighty nine percent.
We had one subject who was taking a gastronomictory of
the Bay Area, and after about a half an hour
of she said, let's stop. I'm full, you know, just

(12:02):
eating imaginary food. And when they do the opposite, when
they relax but think of anything butt food or drink,
we got a thirty nine percent decreasing gastric acid. So
the brain has an amazing ability to control what's going
on in the body. That's this prefrontal cortex to insul
a connection and also to be more aware of what's
going on in the body. We call that interroception, so

(12:25):
you enhance your regulation of the body and perception of it.
The third one, and I think this might be especial
interest to you, Jay, in view of your interest of
how we get trapped in notions of ourselves and try
to be something we're not and don't focus on the
fundamental things. You get inverse connectivity between the prefrontal cortex

(12:45):
and the posterior singular cortext that's a part of the
brain that we call the default mode network where you
contemplate who you are what you are instead of what
you're doing. When you're not working or doing anything, you're
just reflecting. And it's the part of the brain that
is the closest probably to what we call the superego
and analytic terms, where you're looking at yourself and saying,

(13:08):
who am I, who should I be? What do I
want to be? And so you're to the extent you're
engaged in the hypnotic task, you're suppressing activity there. And
that's the football coach dancing like a ballerina. You know,
I don't care. I'll just try it anyway and see
what it's like. Now, that's silly, but if you want
people to change, it's a great opportunity to say, you

(13:28):
know what, just try it. See what it feels like
to be different. Can you be in the same situation
and react to it differently, not struggle against it, not
fight it, see what you can learn from it. And
so that and that's a part of the brain where
activity is suppressed. In experienced meditators too. The mindfulness tends

(13:49):
to inhibit activity in this posterior singula default mode area,
or I call it the my fault mode network. You know,
it's when you're reflecting on what's wrong with you. And
so it's a part of the brain that is also
affected by psychedelic drugs that this sort of dissolution of
the self comes but through disorganization of activity in the

(14:14):
posterior singulate cortex. There's a new paper in Nature out
with some leading neuroscientists who took psychedelics and scanned their
brains eighteen times over a couple of weeks and found
disorganization in that region of the brain. So it's a
center for change because you can inhibit your usual views

(14:35):
of who you are, and that's something that hypnosis helps
you to do.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Is it possible to control others with hypnosis and hypnotherapy?

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, jay I I would say yes and no. I
mean we're social creatures. We're susceptible of social influence. And
you know, if you pay any if you engage in
the painful act of paying any attention to recent American politics,
you'll see that people are influenced by all kinds of
things and believe all kinds of things that just flat

(15:07):
out aren't true. And it is the case that people
in hypnosis, since they're more focused, are more likely to
suspend their usual evaluation and judgment of things and see
what it would be like if this were true instead
of that. And there are people who have been and
can be influenced to some extent. But you know what,
people who are highly hypnotizable do that without ever having

(15:30):
been formally hypnotized. They'll tell you. I just you know,
the highly hypnotizable people tend to be very sensitive to
other people. They pick up their emotional cues very well,
and they respond often easily, putting somebody else's priorities above
their own. So does that mean you're more easily influenced. Perhaps,

(15:53):
But frankly, I think you're better protected if you understand
more about your tendency to do that, and you can
defend yourself more. So. Hypnosis is a way of being
influenced by other people but also being influenced by your
own desires and wishes. So I would say it's there,
take full advantage of it.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
How does one know if they're hypnotizable? Because I believe
that most people would feel like, oh, I would never
work on me, and I don't think it would work
on me like they do with meditation as well. People
always think, oh, that won't work for me. My mind
is everywhere. How does someone know if they can be hypnotized? Well?

Speaker 1 (16:31):
On the Reverie app, we have a six minute hypnotizability
test it's a standard test. I've used it with about
seven thousand patients and research subjects in my career. It
just it can be done very quickly. You give a
series of hypnotic instructions and see how the person can
respond to them. And if you'd like, Jay, I can

(16:52):
test your hypnotizability right now.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think we should do it.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah you are. I bet your listeners are placing bets
just admatizable.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
So get as comfortable as you can. Put one arm
on either side of the chair, and please look up
now to the top of your head, all the way up,
eye as you can, pass your eyebrows all the way up,
way way up. Good, And as you keep looking up,
slowly close your eyes. All right now, let your eyes relax,

(17:22):
but keep them closed. Take a deep breath in nice
slow exhale through your mouth. Let your eyes relax, but
keep them closed, and let your body float. Just imagine
you're floating somewhere safe and comfortable, like a bath, a lake,

(17:42):
a hot tub, floating in space. And while your body's floating,
I'm going to ask you to take your right hand
and stroke the back of your left middle finger. So
let your right hand float over and stroke the back
of your left middle fing and stroke backward towards your wrist.

(18:03):
Now and up your forearm to your elbow. And as
you do that, you'll feel a sense of tingling and
numbness and lightness. And now put your right hand back
down and let your left hand float up in the
air like a balloon. Let it float up to a
comfortable upright position. You can leave it straight up in

(18:25):
the air as it is, or you can rest your
elbow on the arm of the chair. Whatever feels better
to you. And I'm going to give you this instruction.
Your hand will remain light and in this upright position
even after I give you the signal for your eyes
to open. Later, when I ask you to pull your
left hand back down to the arm of the chair

(18:46):
and then let go, your left hand will float right
back up to the upright position. You'll find something pleasant
and amusing about this sensation. After that, when I ask
you to touch your elbow, your usual sensation and control
will return. Each time you go into this state of concentration,

(19:07):
you'll find it easier and easier to do, and you
can use it to help you concentrate on what's important
to you. Right now, we'll come out of this state
of concentration together by counting backwards from three to one.
On three, you'll get ready. On two with your eye
that's closed, roll up your eyes and one let your
eyes open. Ready, three, two, one? Right now stand in

(19:31):
this position. Please and describe what physical sensations you're aware
of now in your left hand and arm. There's a
tingling in my fingers, tingling? Is it comfortable?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Comfortable?

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Very comfortable. Does your left hand feel as if it's
not as much a part of your body as your
right hand? Agreed, it's lighter, it's lighter. Okay. Does that
surprise you at all?

Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's interesting to perceive the sensation.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
The sense it, Yeah, to be aware of it. Okay,
it's interesting for sure. It's curious. Okay. Now please take
your right hand, pull your left hand back down to
the arm of the chair, and then let go. Now,
your left hand just popped up. Can you describe what
that felt like?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
It felt like a pull, almost like that I that
I had to lift it up, That you had to
lift it up. Yeah, that it felt like I should
It felt right to do it.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
It felt right good? Yeah? Is that surprising to you
that is very.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Surprising to me.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
All right, I can feel it. It was a physical sensationhip,
it was physical.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
It was physical. It wasn't mental, because I know you'd
said that in the instructions, and I could hear that,
I could feel it in my brain, so I guess
there's something better. But it felt physically.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
It felt like it felt like a force, a physical force.
By way of comparison, please raise your right hand, put
that one down. Any difference in sensation.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, there's no feeling of there being any other this
and my left hand almost feels like there's puppet strings attached,
puppet strings, whereas here I don't feel they're They're like,
I feel like I can do what I want with this,
whereas this hand feels very like.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Well, I'm here to tell you folks, there are no puppets.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
But in that in that sensation of the idea that
in the sense I don't know how to describe that,
it's this hand feels fully under my control, whereas this
hand feels like there's a sense of I'm trying to
I want to nail the expression. It's this hand I
can do whatever I want with it right now. Is
this hand feels like that's where it's meant to be.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
That's where it's meant to be, so you clearly have
more control over your right right all right, now, please
take your right hand, touch your left elbow, and then
let go.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Let go like this.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, now I see that your left hand went back down.
Can you describe what that feels like?

Speaker 2 (21:49):
There's still a sensation in my forearm that makes me
want to lift it slightly for some comfort. But when
I put it down fully, it's slowly getting more acclimatized
to matching with the right but it's not there yet.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
There yet, Okay, some sensation there, so it feels the
sensation is different, but the control is now.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, I could like still want to lift it a
little bit. There's still that feeling of wanting to lift it.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
All right, Well, touch your left elbow again with your
right hand open now, shake both hands and tell me
when the control becomes the same. Slowly getting there, getting there? Okay.
Did I do or say anything that would indicate there'd
be a change in sensation or control in your left

(22:35):
hand and arm?

Speaker 2 (22:36):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Did I say anything to you about your elbow or
touching your elbow?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
I believe.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
So, yes, yeah, do you remember what I said?

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah? You said when I would touch my elbow that
would return back.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
You didn't, and you did touch your elbow. Okay. Did
you have a sense of floating lightness or buoyancy in
your left hand and arm during Did you have that
sense in any other part of your body? I don't
think in chest. Okay, so your score is seven out
of ten. You're quite hymnatizable, which is shocking to me.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
It is really, I just I just never thought I
had this really strange thing happened that when you were talking.
And I know we haven't even got into it yet,
but when you asked me to roll my head, I
think I find myself often to be non hypnotiza were
just because I don't know. I guess I've never opened

(23:26):
myself up to it. But I felt this when you
were kind of about to calt me down. I felt
like my head is getting heavier and lowering, and I
felt like I was like I could. I was aware
that I was sinking, but I was like, why am
I sinking? Like what's going on? And so it's always
like my head was straight back because you asked me
to be comfortable as if I was floating. So when

(23:47):
you said that, I kind of leaned back and I
felt like I was floating in a lake, as you said.
But then when you said, like, we're going to bring
back ourselves conscious and my head started to do this
and it was such a natural heaviness that brought my
head down. But there was a part of me that
was going, why are we doing this right now? Why
am I dropping my head? But I am dropping my head.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
So your head was drooping forward, it was leaning was.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Leaning forward, but you didn't ask me to do that,
and I didn't know why I was doing it, but
it felt natural to kind of feel like I was
sinking in.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yes, sinking into it. So you were elaborating upon the
image that you were feeling, and that's you know, hypnosis
is about very rapidly doing things, changing the way your
body feels. You have with all of your experience in mindfulness.
This is something different for you. How would you say

(24:36):
it's different from where the state to get into mindfulness?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
That's a great question. I would say that the state
of sinking and being in that state of awake and
alert but also resting is something I feel certain mindfulness
practices can allow us to create that STUF eight. I've

(25:01):
never created it through physical movement. It's always created through
being present or still or bringing my awareness to a
particular object or my breath or whatever it may be.
But I've never really felt it physically. It's probably the
best way I could define the difference. I felt like
I'm floating while meditating, or I felt a lightness in

(25:23):
my entire body, but not in a specific hand or
a specific part of my body I see.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
So it's more slipping into the state but not using
it right away to see if you can produce a
change correct and frankly, when I use hypnosis with subjects,
and I use this test with every person I use
hypnosis with because it's a way for them to discover
what the experience is like and how they feel it
and to observe it, know, to see, don't take my

(25:50):
word for it, try it out and see what it
feels like, and for me to be able to evaluate
in what way to work with them. Because some people
can do something like what you did, some less not
at all, not that many, but some people not at all.
But it becomes a kind of immediate object lesson and
how much more control we have over our body and
how we react to that than we usually give ourselves

(26:12):
credit for.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
What about the cynical mind that says, And that's what
I'm so glad I'm talking to you about this, because
you know years of research Stanford Medicine. It's the cynical
mind that I avoided having in this experience, because I
generally consider myself someone who wants to be open to
experience and curious and open to letting things in to

(26:34):
figure it out and see how useful it may be.
But the cynical mind that says, well, of course Jay
lifted his hand because David had said that he would
lift his hand when he put it back down. But
to me, I can genuinely say that, yes, there was
an instruction in the brain, but there was also a
feeling that was there. And so both those things and
my cynical self. If I was trying to be annoying,

(26:56):
which I would never want to in a you know,
I've invited you to be my guest to my show,
but the cynical, skeptical part of me would be like, oh,
I'm just going to hold my hand down just to
make a point. But I wanted to go with how
I was actually feeling and intuitively feeling. So the cynical
person that says, well, it's a placebo effect or it's
something that David told you to do and that's why
you did it. How do you process that kind of

(27:18):
response or reaction that often I imagine arises.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Well, you know, I frankly think the best answer is
you are highly experienced in mindfulness, in trying out different
ways of being. And yet for you, and you're telling
and look, I'm a guest on your show, this is
your show. It would be fine for you to just say,
you know, sorry, doc nice try I don't feel it,

(27:44):
and I think you would be honest with your audience
in doing that. I would, yes, But you had the experience.
You know, years ago. I don't know if you remember this,
but there was a guy named Phil Donahue who had
a very popular daytime show and he invited me as
a guest. Was at a time when it was thought
to be dangerous to hypnotize someone in public. You wouldn't
do that, other people might get hypnotized. So this woman

(28:07):
I had hypnotized before the show began, and I had
her arm up in the air like this. The show
opens and I pull the hand down and it pops
back up the way yours did. And the camera comes
in closer, and Donna Hue says, look, this is just
some doctor. I'm Phil Donahue. Keep your hand down, and
he pulls her hand down and it pops right back

(28:29):
up in the air, and she says, I'm starting to
feel like a slot machine, you know. So the fun
thing about it is is that if it's the real deal,
it wasn't like you were saying, oh, I'll just keep
my hand down. Your hand wanted to go up right.
And that ability to quickly rearrange your mind body relationship
is part of what's so interesting about hypnosis. And you

(28:51):
experienced it, so you know. People can fight it if
they want, or they can misrepresent what their experience is,
but you didn't. You had the experience and that element
of surprise that where people can see, damn, I look
look what's happening in my body. Look what I can
do this quickly? That's our world. I'm already starting therapy there,

(29:11):
you know, because I'm showing people that they have more
of an ability to control their body than they like
to think, or than they usually think, and that's a
tremendous opportunity.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Right, even though you're the one giving the instruction, you
feel that that's showing that I have the power to
control my body.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
That's a very important point, chat because it's I'm not
taking control. And you may have did you feel like
I was taking No? No, no, I thought. I'm a teacher.
You know, I'm teaching you how to identify and utilize
the abilities you have the way you do when you
teach people how to use mindfulness, you know, you're not
implanting mindfulness in them, You're showing them. Look, you know

(29:53):
you're you've narrowed your view of who you are and
what you are, and I'm going to help you expand it.
And I'm going to show you the beauty and everyday
experience and how you can reassess what's important to you
in life. And people can be open to that and
learned from it or not. But you're teaching them how
to explore capacities they have that they may not have

(30:14):
known about. And that's what I'm doing with hypnosis. I'm
teaching them how to utilize their own ability. You know,
our major evolutionary advantage as humans is our brain. This
three pound object on the top of our shoulders. It
doesn't come with a user's manual. You know, there are

(30:35):
a lot of things our brains can do, and that's
what you do teaching people mindfulness that you can use
your brain in ways you hadn't thought of, and if
they didn't have the basic ability to do it, it wouldn't work.
And the same is true. That's what I'm doing with hypnosis.
I'm not projecting anything onto someone. I'm teaching them how
to use what they already know. When automobiles were invented

(30:56):
some hundred and some years ago, there were a bunch
of state laws against windshield wipers. Why because remember the
oldest image of somebody inducing hypnosis was the dangling watch,
you know, and it doesn't work very well with electronic
watches now, But they thought people would be waving their
eyes back and forth with the windshield wipers and going

(31:17):
into hypnotic states when they were driving. It doesn't happen.
But so it's an ability that people have and we
just teach them how to use it.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, that's brilliant. Hey, I'm Jay Shatty and I wanted
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(31:48):
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(32:09):
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(32:30):
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(32:51):
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not just lived, but truly loved. See you there. How

(33:14):
can hypnotherapy affect our memory? How does it work with memory?

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, there's a that's a fairly controversial area, hypnosis. It
can be a powerful thing. It can help people relive
events and with not just remember, but relive them with
the same kind of emotion, sort of like a flashback
in PTSD, but under control, and then help people come

(33:43):
to a new understanding of what happened. Now, does it
mean that the hypnotic what we call age aggression, is
an absolute, totally accurate recollection of what happened? Though? But
then none of our recollections are, you know, they're a
combination of what we experienced and put down in memory stores,
and what we interpret and what we've learned later. But

(34:04):
it can help people in a controlled way to get
back to relive and remember things that they previously might
not have been able to remember, in part because the
emotions are so painful and difficult that one way to
protect yourself is to just keep it dissociated, just put
it away somewhere and not think about it. And hypnosis

(34:25):
can be a way of cutting through that and helping
people come to terms with situations that they previously hadn't
thought about or didn't want to think about. So what
I tell my patients and what is the case, is
that hypnosis is no true serum. It's not like your
memory is a tape recorder and you just rewind the

(34:46):
tape and look at it. But it can be a
way of dealing with the emotional implications of things you're
remembering and get a better look at what happened. And
one example, I don't know if you remember this, but
not far from here, there's a town called chow Chilla
where a school bus full of children was hijacked by
two idiots who literally buried the bus underground in some

(35:07):
an old mining pit, And they finally found the bus
and really freed the kids, and the bus driver couldn't
remember much about the guys who overtook the bus. So
he was hypnotized, and he of course was traumatized too,
and he had to help keep these kids alive in
a terrible circumstance. And he recalled seeing this car overtaking

(35:31):
the bus, and he remembered in hypnosis all of the
numbers and letters of the license plate correctly. He got
the order wrong, but he remembered it all, and that
led to the arresting conviction of the two guys who
did it. There are times when, yes, you can add
new information that is accurate. It doesn't mean it's always accurate,
but it's additional and often useful information.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
I mean, that's so fascinating that sometimes our conscious memory
doesn't hold onto these I expect with the subconscious calm
And so is it that you're able to also relieve
past stress and anxiety and to overwhelm Is it by
reframing the narrative in hypnosis or hypnotherapy that would do?
Is that the work that's doing? Could you give some examples? Y, Yes.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
That's very important. So there's a woman I saw who
suffered an attempted rape as she was coming home just
at dusk with her arms full of groceries, and this
guy jumped her and she starts fighting with him. Eventually
she fought him off. Actually he was trying to get
her upstairs into her apartment, and the police came. She

(36:38):
hadn't actually been raped. They thought, no big deal. She
then had a full out seizure. She's had a basel
or skull fracture from the fighting with this guy. So
it was a terrifying, horrible thing. And she wanted initially
to just remember more about what the guy looked like,
and she couldn't remember much. It was getting dark, so
I said, all right, here's how we're going to do this.

(36:59):
We're going to take you back to this time. But
your body is floating in a bath. You're safe and comfortable,
and whatever you see or remember, nothing has happened to
your body is now safe and comfortable. So I was
reassuring her. And very often, when understandably, when people remember
an event like that, they start reacting physically as though

(37:19):
what were happening, And that's that feedback cycle of physical
and mental hyper arousal that is very uncomfortable. So remind
yourself at all times you're safe and comfortable. But I
want you to picture him and she said, you know,
I really it was getting dark. I really can't see
much more about his face than I recall, she said,
but I see something else. If he gets me upstairs,

(37:42):
he's not just going to rate me. He's going to
kill me. And so you might say, well, thank you,
doctor Spiegel. You've now made her feel even worse than
she did before. It was a more horrible experience than
even she had imagined. And I said, well, you're looking
at this on a split screen. Picture him on one
side and what you see about him on the other side.
I want you to picture something else. What did you

(38:05):
do to protect yourself? And I have yet to meet
a trauma victim that doesn't engage in some creative strategy
to protect themselves. And she said, you know, he's surprised
that I'm fighting that hard. He didn't think I would.
And she'd been feeling very guilty that she got herself
as badly injured as she was, And I said, you know,
you saved your life. You know, think about what you did.

(38:27):
You know, you just jumped and you defended yourself, and
you saved your life. So she came away from that,
on the one hand, seeing things that you might say,
are even more upsetting than what she was already living with.
But recognizing that she had done something to save her
life and that changed her reaction to the whole event.
You know, she saw it as something that was an

(38:52):
attribute and aspect of herself that she hadn't recognized. And
there's I don't remember the name, but there's a Japanese
custom that when some very beautiful precious vase breaks when
somebody drops it or something, when they glue it back together,
they don't use glue, they use gold and they're there

(39:13):
is what they're saying is it will now be even
more beautiful than it was. And in a sense, she
it was a terrible thing, but it was also she
learned something wonderful about herself. And that's so you can
help people relive an event in a very controlled way
and at the same time learn something that helps you

(39:34):
cope with it a lot better.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, I believe it's known as kintsugi.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yes, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yes, they use that gold powder and things like that,
and that you get these gold veins, yes, in the vases.
That is so beautiful. And thank you for showing that
extreme example, because I think it's It's so interesting because
you could do that as a theoretical activity, but it
doesn't it doesn't work like that. You know, you could

(40:00):
say like what did you learn from this? Or how
did you react? And sometimes it can be so painful
to reflect on it in such a technical theoretical way.
That's right, and being able to see yourself fighting and
being brave and being courageous and how it affects. How
does then that work with self hypnotherapy, like when you
talk about your app revery, how does that work? Because

(40:21):
you're not physically there to guide people? How do them
people allow themselves to practice it on their own in
a safe way, in a safe environment, in a way
that it can.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Help well in many circumstances. Jay, it's you know, it's
pretty easy, that is. You know, there was a reporter
for the Times of London who started using Reverie. She
had metastatic breast cancer and she was dealing with that

(40:52):
very openly with her readers and talking about that, and
she tried wherever she was having trouble sleeping, you know,
she just couldn't stay asleep and would wake up anxious
and with some discomfort. She said about after about five
days she would just listen to my malifluous voice every night.
And you know, I used to worry that the app

(41:15):
wouldn't be nearly as good as being in the office
with me, But then I thought, you know, if you
wake up at three in the morning, you probably don't
want me in your bedroom teaching how to go back
to sleep. But you've got me there on the app,
and it's interactive. So I asked, how are you responding?
And depending on what you tell the app, you get
a different instruction, so it is as much like being

(41:35):
with me as possible. And she said, I woke up
one morning after about five days of this. Rosamond Dean
is her name. She's a lovely person and grave reporter,
and she said, I looked at the clock sort of
out of the corner of my eye, and I thought,
oh my god, it's seven or nine am. It's the
first time I've slept through the night in a year.

(41:59):
And so people can learn to incorporate it into their
own practices. Now, I would say that people dealing with
post traumatic stress disorder and these severe things probably would
benefit more from having a trained therapist helping them to
do it. But once you sort of set them on
that path, they can revisit it having learned what the

(42:19):
experience is like, and they can help them. But more
commonly we use it for more common problems for distress, insomnia, pain, focus,
things that are widely disseminated, mental problems that we don't
have nearly enough resources to help people with. So Reverie
is a great way to say, try it for yourself

(42:41):
and see what it feels like. And if you need
the help of a professional along with it, by all means.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
When you're working directly with the professional, how long have
you seen it take for results to start forming? In reality?
So if someone struggling with sleep and insomnia, how long
does it take the average person to get back to
a sense of well?

Speaker 1 (42:59):
I can tell you I have the most data jay
from Reverie. We have people rate their level of stress
or their level of pain pre to post within ten
minutes the beginning of the interactive session to the end,
and we find that four out of five of them
report improvement of about one and a half to two

(43:20):
points on a ten point scale within ten minutes and
reductions in pain, stress management, improving focus is so eighty
or ninety percent report improvement and so the great thing
about this is you know right away whether you're going
to feel better. I had one woman who was pregnant

(43:41):
and had terrible lower back disease, and they couldn't give
her opioids, thank god, because she was pregnant, and they
implanted a nerve stimulator didn't work, and her pain was
seven out of ten and the bigger the baby got.
Of course, the worst the pain was because it was
pulling more on her spine. And so I had her
imagine she was doing something that gives her relief, which

(44:04):
is taking a nice warm bath. And if you think
about it, so she has the opportunity to put her
brain into the state it is in when she's got
the pain, but she's an a warm bath, and our
brain can recall that and see, well, okay, the pain
signals are still there, but I can also imagine them
being interfered with by this comfort that comes with a warmth.
So she did, and she said the pain was down

(44:27):
from seven out of ten to three. But she looked angry,
and I said, what are you angry about? She said,
why in the hell are you the last doctor I
got sent to instead of the first. It doesn't seem real.
If there is an incision, ingestion, or injection, you're not
doing anything real. I'm a doctor, I use medications, I
do a lot of other treatment techniques. But our brains

(44:50):
are powerful things, and if we learn to use the better,
we can be a lot more comfortable and unlike opioids,
which killed eighty eight thousand Americans last year alone, the
worst thing it happens with hypnosis is it doesn't work.
So we're finding from people using Reverie, and this is
thousands of people. We have one study with stress reduction,
thirty three thousand people get an average reduction of one

(45:12):
and a half points in ten minutes just using the app.
So it's worth to try.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
What's the most extreme case or unique case where you've
used typnotherapy that you remember that you think would be
really powerful for the audience.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
To hear about. I worked with a Vietnam veteran who
had been He had just kind of gone berserk in Vietnam,
and nobody knew quite knew why. But he hijacked an
ambulance and went out into the jungle and started shooting
at people he thought were Viatkan and he wound up

(45:51):
being hospitalized in a statemental hospital for a year because
he was picked up in a drug bust. He was
using taking psychedelics and a social worker interviewed him and said,
he doesn't look like our typical chronic patient in a
statemental hospital. And so I got to see him, and
he was very hypnotizable, and I said, I'd like to

(46:16):
relive with you what happened before this event. So we
went back and he was extremely hypnotizable. He was even
higher score than you, Jay, and he relived the Tet
offensive in Vietnam. And he comes back to the hospital
we worked. He was a cook in the army. He was,

(46:37):
you know, long standing, highly regarded cook in the army.
And he comes upon the body of a little boy.
He called him Shytown because he gave him Chicago, who
he had informally adopted. The boy was an orphan. He
was badly wounded in a bombing and had burns and

(47:01):
walked with a crutch, and he just became his dad.
And they hung out together and slept together, and he
started crying. He's looking at the boy's body there. He's saying,
they ain't got to kill kids. You know, we got
the Geneva Convention they can't do this. They can't bomb hospitals,
they can't kill kids. And he just takes off Commandeers's

(47:25):
ambulance and starts yelling at vietname. He's hyri Ta truck.
You know, he's angry at these people and shooting at them.
And I said, all right, I want to remember now
one happier time you had with Shytown and instantly, and see,
the nice thing about hypnosis is the control you have
that he's one minute grieving and angry at himself for

(47:48):
not having somehow known he could, you know, thinking he
could have saved the boy. And I said, picture one
time you were happy with him, And a smile comes
on his face and he says, you remember your birthday party.
You know, the doughnut Dollies gave us some food for
this party. And my sister Josie sent an electric train

(48:11):
set from Chicago. The joke was it was from the
Spiegel Brothers company either, you know, what are the odds?
And he said, you ain't never seen an electric train before,
and they were, you know, just he was suddenly happy.
And I said, all right, I want you to remember
two things. On one side of the screen. I want
you to picture shy Town's grave, and he as he

(48:35):
looked at it, he held out his hand and said, ashes
to ashes, dust to dust, I guess and I said,
on the other side, I want you to picture that
time when you were really happy with him. And I
do this in helping people grief using hypnosis, I said,
because you're facing and dealing with the grief and the loss,
but you're also remembering something different about it. That the

(48:56):
reason it's so painful is how much joy you had together.
So I want you to remember both the loss and
you're having to bury shy Town. And at the same time,
I want you to picture those times you were happy
with him, because that's still true, you still have the
joy that you shared together. He then I said, all right,

(49:17):
so let's come out of the hypnosis now, and he,
you know, he had tears down his cheeks. He was
really upset, and I said, what do you remember? And
he looked a little puzzled and dazed, and he said,
I remember a grave and a cake. Wow, that was it.
That was all he remembered. And he practiced this exercise.

(49:38):
He was in the ward of the hospital doing the
self hypnosis. After that, grieving the boy you know, he
told me later, he said he knew he was going
to die. He was crippled the at arthritis. He didn't
think he was going to survive the war. And I said,
and you gave he did die, but you gave him
a period of happiness and feeling loved before he died,
and that's not going to go away. And he had

(49:59):
one going to rehospitalization when one of his brothers, who
was a Chicago police officer, was killed in a line
of duty, and we had to kind of piece him
back together and help him grieve that loss. But he
went on to teach adolescent boys how to do long
distance cycling and he was, you know, he was out
of the hospital, nomads and he was he was doing fine.

(50:22):
So you know, that's an experience I will I will
not forget. And it shows you how the interesting thing
about hypnosis is how much you know, people think you're
losing control. You watch this guy doing this, and I was,
I was reassuring myself. I was holding onto his arm

(50:42):
while I was doing this. But I was struck by
how much control we both had over the mental these
extreme emotional states he was in and shifting from one
to another, despite how intense they were. And that's one
of the really cool things about hypnosis is that you
can be very intense with intense emotions but help people

(51:02):
feel themselves as different people. So he was dissociated in
the sense that he was two different guys. He was,
on the one hand, terribly upset and angry about the loss,
and angry at himself for somehow not having been able
to prevent this in the middle of a war. But
at the same time he could be the loving guy
who grieved this boy and who recognized the gift they

(51:25):
had given to one another in forming the relationship that
they formed. So the capacity to focus intently to control
what's going on in mind and body, but also to
be comfortable with the idea that you can be two
different people in the sense that you can be this
horribly angry, furious guy at himself and everyone else about

(51:49):
what happened, and at the same time this warm, loving
parent to this poor little kid is something that is
a real strength of hypnosis.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
What I mean, thank you for sharing that story is
super fascinating. I hope there's some way we can read
and learn about all of these Yes, please let us
know where, well where the audience can go to learn more.
But what makes someone unhypnotizable? And when someone isn't open
to it and it doesn't work on them, what do

(52:22):
they do about it? Can they develop the ability to
become more hypnotizable? What can they do to open themselves
up to if they feel it's a modality that could
help them.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Well, Jay, there's good news and bed news about this.
The good news is that most children are in trans
states most of the time. You know, all eight year olds,
you know they're out playing, You call them at for dinner,
they don't hear you. They're doing anything. Work and play
is all the same thing for kids. They live in
their imagination, so they live hypnotic like experiences all the time,

(52:52):
and they can change all the time and be different
and play it being different. And so it's one of
the wonderful things about you to it is that you're
in a more of a hypnotic consciousness state more of
the time. But as we go through adolescence, we go
through what the famous psychologists PHA called formal consciousness, in

(53:13):
which you evaluate more and experiencing is less a part
of that. So you learn to try to be more
logical and analyze more and just let yourself feel things less.
So some people lose some of that hypnotic ability when

(53:33):
they acquire these formal operations, and they are about twenty
percent of the population who by the time they're twenty one,
just are not very hypnotizable. They're very logical. In Reverie,
where we have the hypnotizability test, we call them the researchers.
They want to examine and evaluate everything. At the other extreme,

(53:54):
some people retain extremely high hypnotizability, and we call them
the poets. They just get to it. They just absorb
themselves in anything. I had one guy recently who gets
he loved getting lost in movies. You know, he just
enters another world. He becomes an actor in the movie
and part of it. And he decided he loved it

(54:14):
so much that he went to film school to learn
how to make movies. And he said, you know what,
it was spoiling my experience of movies because I started thinking, well,
why did they put the camera over here and the
lightings and right in all this? And he said, so
I quit film school, Chris, I was losing that ability.
About sixty percent of the adult population are they're moderately hypnotizable.

(54:35):
They haven't experienced, then they step back and reflect on it,
and then they try it again. Most of them can
benefit to some extent from Reverie from other hypnotic techniques,
because even if you're not in it all the time,
if you can dip into it and have the experience,
you can change. And part of what we offer with
Reverie is not just hypnosis, but the way we use hypnosis.

(54:58):
And I think there's some of this and you know,
thinking like a monk where you talk about you know
the value of positivity, of having a finding a positive
aspect of even the most menial things that you have
to do. And with hypnosis, we try to use it
in a way that you focus on what you're for.
So when people want to stop smoking, I don't say, oh,

(55:19):
cigarettes smell terrible. You know, they're awful things to do.
Look at what you're doing to your buddy. I say,
have them recite this to yourself. For my body, smoking's
a poison. I need my body to live. I owe
my body respect and protection. So you're being a better
parent to your own body. You'd never put, you know,
tar and nicotine laden smoke into your baby's lungs or

(55:39):
your pets lungs. Why would you do it to your
own body? It depends on you. So you people can
get with that approach to the problem, even if they're
not that hypnotizable, focusing on what you're for, So can
you change it? It's remarkably stable trait. Jay I didn't,

(56:00):
but colleagues of mine at Stanford did a twenty five
year follow up on former students who in psych one
had had their hypntizability measured, and they blindly retested them
twenty five years later. The test retest reliability zero point seven.
Now that's as reliable as IQ it was over that interval,

(56:22):
and so it's an extremely stable trait there are We
just published a paper recently in which we used a
technique called transcranial magnetic stimulation, in which you apply magnetic
activity to the surface of the skull and if you
line it up in the right place, you can connect

(56:44):
between the prefrontal cortext to deeper components of the brain
like the dorsal anterior cingulate, And we found that we
could transiently increase hypnatizability a bit, and we're hoping that
we can expand upon that and maybe find ways to
increase hypnotizability, But I'd say for most people, just make
good use of what you've got. The odds are that

(57:05):
you will be able to benefit. And we're struck by
the fact that at least four out of five people
who use Reverie feel immediate improvement. And that's a whole
It is correlated with their hypnotizability. We looked at that
the more hypnotizable ones were more likely to respond, but
most people responded to some extent anyway.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
David, is anything I didn't ask you that you really
feel is on your heart in mind that you want
to show and that's intuitively something you'd like to show.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Well, thank you, I certainly, you know. I want to
kind of banish the fear that people have about hypnosis
and the misunderstanding. You know, we're sort of remember Rodney Dangerfield.
You know, he was the comedian who said I don't
get no respect, and he said they asked me to
leave a bar so they could start happy hour. You know,

(57:52):
it's people don't see hypnosis as the tool that it is,
and they see it as some weird thing that you know,
people do on stage or something. It's an aspect of
our brains that allows us to take control of things.
It's not losing control, it's gaining control that you can

(58:15):
modulate pain, you can control your sense of relaxation so
you can get to sleep or get back to sleep.
You can focus intently on your work. There are athletes
who use it, you know. Tiger Woods is one well
known example of an athlete who Adele the singer, uses
it to sing. It can really help people focus their

(58:39):
attention and get in a better relationship with their own bodies,
control what's going on in their bodies, and react better
to their bodies. There's so much possibility that people can
have from learning to identify it and use it. That
That's why I build Reverie is a kind of legacy project.

(59:00):
I'm not going to be able to do this forever.
I love helping the people I have helped and still help,
but I just wanted to be out there and available
for people to use it for themselves and just explore it.
It's an opportunity for people to make better use of
their brains and their bodies.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Absolutely, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
And we end every episode of On Purpose with a
final five. These have to be answered in one word
to one sentence, Doctor David Spiegel. These are your fast five.
Your final five. Question number one is what is the
best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
I would say the best advice came from reading Kirker
Guard Fear and Trembling, which is that what we are
is about relationships and relating to ourselves that don't get
stuck in any one image of who you are, which
is not so different from what you write about with

(59:59):
mindful illness.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Second, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Don't think about purple elephants.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Question number three, which you can expand on, is how
do we get over our fear of revisiting the past
technotherapy opening up to new modalities that we you know,
that aren't as familiar even you know, we're almost not
scared to put a pill in our body or injection

(01:00:30):
as you said, or sometimes have a surgery, but these
things feel scarier.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Well, try it, you'll like it, you know, I think
that's the nice thing about it. You know. The biggest
risk is it might not work. There are no side effects.
You know. Opioids killed eighty eight thousand Americans last year.
Hypnosis has not succeeded yet in killing anybody. Let's see

(01:00:58):
see so I think try it. You know, we tend
our culture is so overprocessed. You know, it's all you know,
big companies, things processing and a lot of times what
we do with our food and our medications and other
things make us worse rather than better. So this is

(01:01:19):
a do it yourself approach with some training, and that's
what I want people to do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Amazing. And the question number four, how would you define
your current purpose?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
My current purpose is helping people help themselves. That's what
I want to do, and that's why I say all
hypnosis help hypnosis. I'm not a magician. I'm not doing
anything to you, and my purpose is to just spread
it as widely as we can, as quick as we can. Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
And fifth and final question, if you could create one
law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
It would be that a Supreme Court judge could last
no longer than fifteen years. We need the rule of
law and we're losing it absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Doctor David Spieagle, thank you so much for joining. I
hope that our audience will practice along with me, join
Reverie and continue to connect with Dr David Spiegel's work.
Such a joy and honor to be with you today
and so grateful for you making the trip over, and
I look forward to reconnecting very soon.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Thank you. I hope so, and I so admire what
you're doing and helping people discover what they can do
for themselves within themselves. Thank you, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to
heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Everything in nature goes only where it's vulnerable. So a
tree doesn't go over it's hard and thif does it.
It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dr. David Spiegel: 10-MINUTE Hypnosis Hack to Rewire Your Brain & Reduce Stress 80% Faster