Jay Sean: Master This Skill to Unblock Your Potential & Get to the Next Level in Your Creative Process

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:44):
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
I lost myself even when I was behind the mic
singing it. There was no smile on my face. It
was me against everyone else in the music industry. The
next guest is taking America by storm, Clocking upstairs and
huge hit Baby.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Are you down, Down, Down, Down Down, Jay Sean.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I would get my car and just cry because I
was so lost and so scared. Who else gets a
major record deal and then walks away from him?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite
you to join this community to hear more interviews that
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(01:48):
It means the world to me, the best selling author
on the most the number one health and wellness.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Podcast and Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one
health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every
one of you that come back every week to listen,
learn and grow. Now, one of my favorite things about
this platform is I get to sit down with friends
who are change makers, incredible influencers doing amazing things in
the world. But I have this behind the scenes friendship
with them, and I get to hang with them. I

(02:16):
get to invite you all into a genuine, truthful conversation,
a sincere conversation that we probably have had at dinners
and when we're hanging out, but then we get to
record it and share it with all of you. And
today's guest is someone that I was a fan of
ever since I was in my teens. I remember when
his first song that I discovered him through dropped and
it literally felt like it changed culture for me and

(02:38):
my friends, and we knew what we wanted to play,
we knew what we wanted to listen to. We were
sharing it with all our friends. And to watch his
career from Afar rise in the way that it did
and the changes that he's made, the moves that he's made,
was phenomenal for little Jay aged fourteen and beyond there.
I'm speaking about British Indian singer songwriter Jay Sean, who

(03:00):
emerged in the American pop music scene a decade ago
with his Billboard Hot one hundred number one single Down
the Pop Music Titan changed the game stateside for both
Asian and UK acts alike, hitting historical strides and breaking
down multiple doors as a solo artist, Jay was the
first Asian artist in history to have a Billboard number

(03:20):
one in America. He was also the first Asian and
first British artist to have two simultaneous top ten Billboard singles.
Jay's also the first British and first Asian artist to
have a Spanish language number one in America. Welcome to
the show, my good friend and amazing human, Jay Sean.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Bro. Wow, thank you beautiful introduction.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
I mean it, dude, I love that. It great to
be here. Brother. It's so good to have you here, man.
And obviously I got I met you. So for everyone
who doesn't know, and you probably don't know this, I
met Jay the first week I moved. When I say Jay, also,
I'm now talking about Jay Sean, not referring to myself.
The first time I met you was the first week
I moved to La Wow, because I met Jeremy, who's

(04:02):
you've been working with for a long time. I love you, Jeremy. Yeah,
And Jeremy introduced you to us, and this was in
twenty eighteen, and I loved how genuine you were, how
down to earth you were, like it was so easy
to chat to you.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Thank you, Bro.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
We hit it off right away and I wish you
lived in La Still so we can hang out.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I know, Bro, I know we keep talking about that, right,
but now it is. It's so lovely to be here
with you, Bro. So proud of you and what you've done,
you know what I mean. I know that you have
guests on and it's about them, but you know what
you've been doing. I've been watching everything. It's amazing. Makes
me proud. And you know, obviously we're both from England,
you know, both from what part of London?

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Were you from the north? Okay?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
So I was West London obviously, Houndslow, Southfield. Of course
first standard as ciches against for any Indian. But you
know it's not easy, right having these lofty dreams, you know,
and then being here in La which is literally the
land of dreams and broken dreams. Let's be honest about that.
There's people who have goals, but there's also broken dreams.
So to be able to, you know, do what you're

(05:06):
doing and what I'm doing is it's really beautiful. So yeah,
thank you for having me, man.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, man, let's let's let's start there because I think
I find it really interesting. At one point in my life,
I think I had big dreams when I was a teenager,
but I never actually believed the dreams could be real
because I didn't have role models people I could see
doing those things. Did you always have big dreams in
a belief that your life could go down that way?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
You know?

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Bro?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
The one thing about me ever since I was a kid,
I always wanted to a work my hardest, try my hardest,
and apply myself. I've been a very driven person ever
since I was a kid, and I think really and
so is my brother. I have one brother in the roup,
and I think both of us have that we share
that same quality. We're very, very highly driven people. Now

(05:55):
that comes solely from my parents, it really does. My
dad is a big, big dreamer, big dreamer, bro. And
I only found out recently, like when I started going
into music and my brother went into film, that these
were also my dad's dreams, but they were hidden my
dad always you know, my dad used to write poetry
and nobody ever knew it, but he ended up being
a businessman and a very successful businessman. But seeing my

(06:17):
dad's drive and my mom is super hard working as well,
we were always inspired by that, like wow, like how
did dad do this? He had three factories they used
to manufacture denim. They were like, you know, Top top
Man and River Island, all these places they used to
make all the jeens and it came from nothing, came
from just a vision. So that was them. But then
also they put us into a private school. Now private

(06:40):
school in England, as you know, it costs a lot
of money. Now I could have gone to a school
in the area that I lived in, Hounslow, but it
wasn't the most affluent area time. It wasn't the best
school system at the time. So my parents wanted to
be able to put us into an education system where
they felt like we could excel, and so they did.

(07:00):
But that was a sacrifice. They didn't get to go
on holidays every summer and go to Barbados, and that
money they invested into me and my brother, and I
think because I saw that sacrifice, we always wanted to
work hard, so you know, we knew what they were
doing was for us. But the school that we went

(07:21):
to was I think and Latimer Upper School. I'll have
to shout them out, because an incredible school because not
only did you have to be smart to get in,
so you had smart kids, but they weren't like, oh stuffy,
I go to Latimer and I don't do anything fun. No,
it was creative. They were fun. We had so much
of a laugh. And it was an all boys school.

(07:41):
And the reason I'm telling you that is we weren't
getting dressed up during the day to impress girls. I
wasn't doing my hair to impress girls. So how did
you make friends? How did you become the popular one?
Everyone was smart, You had to have something. You had
to either be the funny guy, you had to be
the athletic dude, or you had to be like the
captain of the football team. So everybody excelled, but in

(08:04):
a competitive way, but like in a nice, friendly, competitive manner.
So that has always been my nature to do well
and to apply myself to whatever I do. And I
think I've been like that my whole life. That's why
I always, you know, I'm always doing different stuff, picking
up different projects. Because if this is all we got, bro,

(08:25):
you know, why not make the most of it. Do
do the things you enjoy and try to try to
see how far you can get with them.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, definitely. What was it like having those conversations with
your parents in those early days, Because we've talked about
a million times, and every Indian has that pressure. And
even you know, the other night I was at an
event and it was the same thing where like, Indian
parents are talking about this idea of just like doctor lawyer,
and you know we've heard it a million times. Of

(08:53):
course you were on that path. You were on that
path to make your parents the proudest Indian parents of
all time. And I think there are a lot of
people who listen to this, and even if they don't
have an Indian upbringing, they may have an upbringing where
their parents' expectations mean something absolutely and their parents' expectations
are important to them because they love their parents and

(09:14):
they see their sacrifice. A lot of people who are
listening maybe thinking, my parents work so hard, I look
ungrateful if I follow my dreams. What was that like?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Absolutely listen, that's such a good point, Jay, because I
of course I get asked that question a lot, right like,
and some people might not know, You're right, I was
on my path to being a doctor. It's not just
necessarily an Asian thing. We can really break this down
because as a parent now myself, I understand what it's
like to want the best for your kids. You want

(09:43):
them not to struggle. You want them to have a profession.
You don't want them to be like, oh, yeah, you know,
I have this dream. I want to be an painter
and this, and you're like that's great, I love that,
But I also don't want you to struggle for money.
I don't. So you don't have to be an Asian
parent to want your kids to do well school, job.
But the Asian thing, the reason is stereotype, I think

(10:04):
personally is because we were immigrants, so therefore you can
come with a dream and you can come on a
ship from India, come to England to go hmm, I
want to be a professional gymnast. They were like, what
shut up, bro, you just left the bend. You've left
the village. You need to earn money. So that our
grandparents didn't get to have a lofty dream. They just

(10:24):
had to work hard. They had to work two jobs,
sometimes three jobs to put food on the table. So
then therefore that also gets passed down to their kids.
But with my particular situation, the medicine wasn't my parents'
dream for me, it was actually mine. I was a
super nerd in school, Bro. I loved getting straight eight
grades I loved working hard and then seeing the fruits

(10:48):
of my labor. So when I used to get those
top grades, it made me feel like I'd achieved something.
And it wasn't like, oh, Mom and Dad would be happy.
I knew they'd be happy as well, but it was like,
I'm happy for myself. I worked hard for this, right,
So I actually got fascinated with science. I still am
completely and utterly fascinated with the human mind and the
human body. So before I did medicine, actually bro I

(11:11):
actually not many people know this. I think you might
with first person who knows this. I actually did a
degree in a combined science degree in psychology and biology.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, right, So I did a degree in psychology and biology,
Bachelor of Science. I fully enjoyed it, and then I
was thinking, I'm going to go on to perhaps become
a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I wanted to help people.
I wanted to get in there was always been my thing.
Ended up quite applying for medicine and did two years

(11:40):
of medicine. But like anybody, you have hobbies. My hobby
was music. So I was probably about twelve or thirteen
years old when I got obsessed with hip hop. I
couldn't give it up. I was writing raps at the
age of thirteen because I was watching these rappers from

(12:02):
do you remember I don't know if you remember this
probably agent show my age Hereyo. MTV raps okay, used
to be because in England. Growing up in England, we
didn't have access to eight. Of course, we didn't have
the Internet back then. We didn't have access to all
of these hip hop shows. So we had this cable
show on MTV and it would come on and it
was called Loo MTV Raps with Heed Lover and Doctor Dray.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
I had MTV Base Nelson Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, and Westwood. Yeah,
all of that.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Obviously I'm going to completely off topic I wanted to do.
But but yeah, like point being, you know, the applying
yourself and the working hard and all that stuff. It
was anything I took an interest in, I would take
it to the extreme. So science, work, academia, interested in it,
want to do well, took it to the extreme. Let's
go one degree, all right, No, but I want to

(12:51):
do this too. And in my head there was nothing
saying you can't do that. There was nothing saying you
don't need a degree, bro, Chill, now go get a job.
I was like, no, but I'm also want to do this,
and I think I've always been like that my whole life.
So there, I am studying medicine, but I also want us,
for some weird reason, go on stage and rap.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
And I was a rapper then, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
I wasn't a singer anyway. So I've always been juggling, bro,
I've always been juggling things that I'm passionate about.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
What's been something that you think you've taken to the
extreme more recently or is that mindset still there or
has that changed has time's gone on.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
So it's not necessarily taking things to an extreme recently.
But I have really been interested in being the entrepreneur
side of the entertainment industry. And it's for a number
of reasons. Okay, first of all, being an artist. This
is going to like next year is going to be
twenty years of me being an artist. That's amazing and

(13:49):
it's cool, but it doesn't have to be everything I
do for the rest of my life. I've been so
blessed to be able to do music. Literally, if you
think about my job, I write songs, then I sing songs,
and I go around the world and I travel and
I try to make people happy when I'm performing my music.
But that doesn't mean I don't have other interests. It

(14:11):
doesn't mean that I'm like, for example, I love restaurants
and bars. I love them. Anytime I go to a
different city, first thing I do, either before or after
my show. Where can we go? Where do the locals
go and eat? What's the local cuisine? Here's where where
should I go and sample this city so that I
can get to say I went to Milan, and I
knew what that felt like, So then I was like

(14:33):
my dream was always like, I want my own restaurant,
I want my own bar. So then I did that.
You know, we set up an Indian restaurant called Namah
and a bar called Switch and that was fun because
it allowed me to use a different side of my
brain space and all of a sudden now making entrepreneurial decisions,
which I never really got to do through music because

(14:53):
it's a different field. So I like, so, you know,
and we have the yoga studio that you know, my
wife Tara owns and runs. So all of these things
keep life interesting for me and I think that's the thing.
I want to do as much as I can and
enjoy it and see where I can take it. But
it doesn't mean you try to do everything because you

(15:14):
don't want to be a jack of you know, jack
of all trade's master at none. It's just what feels me.
And so that, you know, I think that the recently
that it's been the entrepreneurial stuff.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, that's awesome. What has been like you spoke about earlier,
like breaking that stereotype of it's not only you know,
Asian families want their kids to like, you know, be
taken care of and do well in the music industry.
Walk me through what that was like, because I think
even as a British Indian and an Asian South Asian person,
I don't think we necessarily know what it was like

(15:45):
because I think when you grow up in England, especially
in London and around I mean to be honest, all
across England, Indian culture is very accessible. Of course, it's normalized.
It's everywhere. Yeah, and then coming to the US, I
don't believe when you did that it was like that
as far as I know. And what did you feel
you were working with? What were you excited about what
did you come up against that you were trying to

(16:07):
make sense of? Because I think there's a lot of
people even right now. I think everyone in different cultures,
different traditions, different trajectories, has to face some form of resistance,
some form of stereotypes, some form of opposition. And I've
always appreciated your way of navigating these things because I
don't think you look at it it's like, oh my god,
everyone's against me. I don't think you lived life that

(16:28):
way to walk us through. What's what goes through your mind?

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, of course, man, So I guess we should really
just take it right back to the beginning, right, So
to answer that question, you know, I'm there, I'm a student,
I'm a medical student. I'm obsessed with hip hop still,
I'm obsessed with music. My love for hip hop, but also,
like then, gone into R and B as well, because
they were sort of hand in hand by then.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Good times. Yeah, I just saw Usher alive in Vegas.
Oh did you again? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Man, it's you know, it's again. Oh my god, brother,
there's so much that we can talk about these things.
Because you say that, and he took you back to
a He literally transported you back to a period of
your life, which I did sixteen, and what the stress
is when we were sixteen, nothing passing our exams, doing
well in our GCSEs. Everything else was childhood. It was

(17:17):
it was big dreams. It was you're fearless, you can
take on the world, you want to do anything and everything,
and life is just good. You had music was great then,
just you know, vibes were there, right and and that's
what I was experiencing. I was I was listening to
you know, all of that same kind of stuff Usher
and and you know and Jagged Edge and Black Street

(17:38):
and all that stuff. And I used to think to
myself every time we went out and we'd go out
clubing with my friends and stuff, it would always be
especially in London, as you know, this quite a heavy
Indian demographic. Well I should say just like a you know,
an Asian demographic what we call Asian in England they
call South Asian here, Yeah, tons of us in all

(18:00):
these clubs. We'd go to concerts, I'd go and see
Fujis in concert, or I'd go and see you know,
DA's effects, I'd go and see Lords of the Underground.
All of these people still a bunch of of Asians there.
And at that time I had started writing, and you know,
I had a friend of mine who's a DJ, and
we used to make these mixtapes, me and my cousin,
and we used to make mixtapes just for our own fun.

(18:22):
And then our friends would be like, actually, that's pretty sick,
like can you make me a copy? Fin mgame a
copy making. All of a sudden, it was kind of
spreading around school, and then that chubby, nerdy Indian kid
you know, became cool. It's all of a sudden in school,
and that felt nice. But that was just in school.
It wasn't happening on a major level anywhere. There was

(18:46):
no Asian mainstream artist on stage that we could go
and watch who would sing or wrap the music that
we love. So we would go there, and I'm like,
I'd be at an Usher concert. I'm watching him, and
I'm watching tons of Asian scream for Usha, and I'm there,
I'm in the mosh pit, but I'm going why isn't

(19:08):
one of us up there? We clearly love this music.
If we can listen to this music and we can
buy this music, why can't we make this music? Why
can't we be the one up there on stage. And
I think when that click switched for me, that changed everything,
because again talking about how I just thought nothing was impossible,

(19:30):
I said, well, I'm going to do that. Why can't I? Okay,
how do I do that? All right, I'll enter talent competitions.
So I did, and I'm simultaneously studying. But then I'll
be listening to Choice of M.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
At the time, it was choice Yeah, something like that, right,
A nine six point nine I think it was. It
was both, was one of those ones, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
So anyway, I'll be listening to Choice of M. And
there was this competition and it was called Commander B's
Night Flight. Okay, it's around about midnight, and all you
have to do you have to pick up the phone,
spit your best verse or sing. At the time, I
was just a rapper, right, I was obsessed with hip hop.
So I said, all right, well I got to lose,

(20:16):
picked up the phone, dropped a little rhyme. You either
get flushed, you got the toilet flush sound, or you
get passed on to the next round. I got through.
Eventually they chose the top one hundred in the country
and then that one hundred was put down to was
cut down to the final twenty. Then the final twenty

(20:36):
had to perform live in Brixton Academy. Okay, that was
my first time on stage ever. And when I looked around, Jay,
I'm not lying to you, I was the only only
non black, non white person in that room. And I
didn't think about it at the time, because you're not going,
You're not looking at that. You just got the mic

(20:58):
in your hand and you've got an opportunity. You're going,
this is amazing. How did I even get here? This
is so fun? It was fun. But now looking back,
I was like, I was the only Asian kid and
it didn't scare me. And so therefore, you know, I
just did what I loved and I did it without fear,
and I ended up coming third in the whole competition.

(21:18):
And that's what gave me the confidence to know that
I can't I think I can take this somewhere.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
How did you have that courage and guts at that age?
And I guess it's part of that extreme focus mentality.
But like I feel like today, I have so many
people in my life that I know that are scared
of posting on TikTok or posting on Instagram or putting
out like for you to like drop that verse on
a phone call, you know other people are gonna hear it.
Other people are going to find out about it. When
you're on stage, of course, you're laid bare in front

(21:45):
of all the audience. I think so many people today
get in their heads and they're like, well, I can't
post that I look stupid, or I can't do that.
I'm not good enough. And even people who are really
talented stop themselves from putting things out there because they're
scared of what their friends say. I remember when I
posted my first video, it was the people closest to
me that criticized it or riady killed it. It wasn't

(22:07):
It wasn't the audience. The audience actually responded fairly well
for day one, but it was the people around me
that said, Jay, you talked too fast. Jay, that point
didn't make sense. Jay, your editing is not as good
as it should be. Like that was coming from people
I knew, whereas the comments were like, oh, I love this.
I just shared this with a friend, and so I
feel so many people have that block. What was it
for you that gave you that courage to say, this

(22:28):
is fun. I love that idea of this is fun.
I'm doing what I love and I actually don't care.
How did you have that then? I didn't care?

Speaker 2 (22:35):
And you're right. You know the reason why I didn't
care back then because in order to find out somebody's opinion,
they had to actually be in front of you and
talk to you about it in person. Right now, we
live in a day and age where we've got connection
with every single human being on the planet. We're not
built like that, bro, where our brains are not built
to have that many connections with that many people were

(22:56):
just not built like that. That's why we get anxiety.
That's why we get because we know that I post this,
it's going to go out to the world, and then
ninety nine point nine percent of the people who react
are people I don't know, and I have to take
their criticism on board. But we weren't bill to be
able to deal with that. We just not designed to
be able to deal with that much. So therefore, of

(23:18):
course it overwhelms us. Of course it gives us anxiety.
Of course we get depressed because users Z one five
ninety nine said this about me, but we don't know
that person. So when I was a kid, I just
did what I did because I didn't have the opinions
of too many people around me. And even if I did,
like you said, and that's another great point, often the

(23:39):
people who are around you might not have the courage
to take a step out of the comfort zone like
you did or I did. So therefore they're just like,
oh no, bro, or maybe it's love. Maybe they're just like,
I don't want you to be sad if someone says
something about you. I don't want you to be hurt
if it doesn't work out. I just loved it. That's

(24:00):
the only that's the only truth of it all is
when I tell you that it was an obsession, jay
I was obsessed with hip hop and R and B,
but like not just the culture, the technique. Okay, So
if I was to really break it down, obsessed with
the fast rappers of that time, that's what it was.

(24:23):
I was obsessed with big l I was obsessed with
chip food from food food stickens. I was obsessed with
jay Z with original flavor and the way that they
would rhyme. It was very very fast, and that to
me was just so cool at the age of fourteen,
How are you rapping that fast? So I would emulate
it and I would try to do what they were doing.
I was like, damn, how did they do that? So

(24:43):
it became like this nerdy obsession. And then when it
came to singers, it was vocalist, how are you singing
like that? How are you doing those runs? How are
you doing those rifts? So I would study them. I
would study boys to men. I would study all these
guys and copy their rifts and copy. And that's how
I sort of learned how to rap and how to
sing by literally just said, my these people who had
such a great skill set.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
And so therefore, when I learned how to do it
for myself, of course I wanted to just go and
have a go at it. So why not go up
there and have a go. And it wasn't because the
end goal was going to be a record deal. I
didn't know. I wasn't thinking that far ahead. The end
goal was I love doing this. If you love football,
you want to kick a football around, You don't want
to just do it in your back garden. If you
get a chance to play on a big pitch, are

(25:24):
you're not going to go yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
I love that there's simplicity of their answers beautiful, because
I do think that it is love that carries you through,
and I think today it's almost the opposite. It's the inverse, right.
So at that time, we didn't have a lot of
role models or people that look like you, or people
like you that had made it. And I don't just
mean that by race and gender and back, I just
mean in general in life, fame and success and careers

(25:50):
like that were reserved for a few. There were only
a finite number of TV channels, find that number of
music artists, find that number of actors, all very mysterious
and unreachable. Ever knew how they got there. Today we
live in the opposite where it's like all your friends
are influencers. Everyone has yeah, everyone's doing everyone's doing something interesting.
You know someone in your family or a network who's

(26:12):
figured something out, Like people are running businesses, there's entrepreneurs here,
there's this, and that, someone has a podcast whatever. So
now it's almost the inverse where it's like, now you
see it happening so much that now you think it
has to work out that way. So that time you
just said, I never believe I never even thought about
a record deal. Now, when you start making music, all
you think about is a record deal because it does

(26:33):
feel within reach or it does feel like someone else
did it. And I fully agree with you. When I
put out my first video, all I thought was I
love sharing this wisdom. I'm tired of just sharing it
in small rooms of five people. I think the wisdom
should reach more people, and I'm just trying to see
if it works. But there wasn't. There wasn't a goal

(26:56):
or a strategy or a whole approach. One day it's
gonna be this and we're gonna have this. We're gonna
build a media empire like it wasn't like that. It
was just I love this, and I actually don't know
what else to do with this apart from try and
share it.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
I've always believed one thing, right, if I operate from
a place of panic, desperation, just looking around competition, it
won't work. It doesn't work for me because it's not true.
It's not organic, it's not real. There is no actual
substance in that product. It's hollow, it's fake, and people

(27:27):
can see it. And I really believe in that it
sounds airy fairy, but I believe in it. I know
for a fact I have made songs just chasing hits,
just like ah, that song work. I went so far
down that rod bro of trying to chase big pop hits.
I lost myself. I lost. I didn't even even when

(27:48):
I was behind the mic singing it. There was no
smile on my face because I knew you were writing
songs for this climate, and you got this guy talking
in your ear. Hm, you need to do a song
like this because so and so I had another big Oh,
we'll get the producer who did that. Oh, we're right
this right with the songwriter who did that. I'm like,
but I don't even like that music. Yeah, but that's
all that's working right now. So you got to do it.

(28:09):
And there was no love in it. And guess what
my fans could tell. They can tell they're not stupid.
They know the Saint Jay shaw Man seeing I see
what he's doing. It's cool. I love him, so I
let him do it. But the Saint Jay, Saint the
Jay that we loved, Saint the Jay that we fell
in love with. I see what he's doing. There's a
pressure for him to do it. That's cool. We'll stand

(28:29):
by him, but we'll wait for him to come back.
He'll find his way back, as I always do. But
when it's not from a place of love, and it's
not from a place of passion, and it's not real,
I feel like there's a metadata in that that people
can feel. And that's always been the story of my life.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
And that's beautiful. Yeah, No, And and it's great to
have that connection to your audience. But when you start obviously,
like you said, I mean, I still remember when Dance
with You came out and we used to wait for
it to be played on Channel You, and I'm trying
to think of where else but Channel You was. Yeah,
And at the back in the day, this is again

(29:07):
agent made. You'd have to wait for the songs you
love to come on to record them on VHS, so
you'd record it and then you'd make your own VHS
music video so that I'd have Usher you, pddy eminem
like whatever else it is. And you're collecting all these
people and then now whenever your mates come over, you
put this video in and then you play that, or

(29:27):
you're playing Channel You in the background anyway, But it's
like I remember when Dance with You came out, and
for anyone who doesn't know it, if you if you
didn't know Ja before the US world, like go back
and see check that video out, because I still think
it's a brit like it lands even today. That's how
good that song is you and it's and I can
still bump in the car and it's it's awesome. But

(29:49):
to me, it was such a moment for the culture
because it was actually good music and it was actually
cool too. And I think that that's hard to do
as well. I think it's really hard when you're like
trying to do something fresh. You're new and you're trying
to own a sound or create a sound, but to
actually do that is really challenging. So when you're at
your best, most creative self, as you were just describing, now,

(30:11):
walk us through the more texture of that recipe of life,
when you're really landing in that passion, that love, the excitement,
as you said, like, walk us through when you're at
your peak creativity and it's truly authentic. What does that
creative process look like?

Speaker 2 (30:24):
There's no thought And that's what I always tell people.
Making music is not a science. There will be people
who tell you and listen. Fine. Some people have had
a very very long, successful career by methodically thinking, hmm,
verse must be x amount of syllables, and this melody
works because this chord structure works for the last ten years,

(30:46):
top ten hits. This is the chord progression and cool.
I'm not built that way. That's not how I make music. Amazing,
hats off to the people who can write hits like that.
That's not how I make music. I feel. I feel,
and I smile and I jump up and down in
the studio when that song is done. And if I'm
feeling like that. The one thing the rule I have

(31:07):
is after I've written a song, if I am not
so excited, regardless of what time it is, it could
be four in the morning, I could have had a
twenty hour day. If I'm not excited enough to go
behind that mic bro and sing that song right there,
that second, it ain't it. If I can say, ah,
I'll wait till tomorrow, then that means my fans can go, ah,

(31:31):
I'll wait till tomorrow to hear it. You understand, they
have options. And the thing is I go off of
that excitement. So when dance with you happened. I had
met Richie rich who really you know, responsible for just
everything from the beginning of the genesis of my career,
our work together. He heard something in me. He knew

(31:52):
I wrapped, He knew us I sang. And what I
had developed was a style of blending the two. So
I would fast rap and sing, but sing it with
a melody. So, because the rapper in me was so alive,
I didn't approach the beat the way that I would
say perhaps if I was just a singer. So I

(32:13):
actually wrote it as a rap. So, girl, whatever told you,
but thin get of all the possibilycical ways they're going
to broach you. And so then i'd write those lyrics down.
But then I put a melody. Girl, whatever told you,
but they get all of the puzzle of lilyriical ways
they're going to broach you. And it was something that
I don't think many people had heard before, but it
was my style. And had there been like a suit
in the room, like an A and R, he would
have gone, hmhmm, you're way too fast. I don't know

(32:34):
what you're saying. Slow it down too many words, This
doesn't work. Who does this have you seen give me
an example of someone who's had success with a song
like this, with a verse like that. That's exactly why
you should do it. That's exactly why I did it.
It's because it is new, because it was fresh, and
because it was it was me, bro It's me, you know.

(32:55):
So when that landed on that song, I think a
lot the Asian kids in England growing up. If you're
growing up in England, you're listening to you know, probably
R and B and hip hop, which is very common
for us at the time. That was a culture, right,
that was kind of what we were into. And then
your mum's watching some Indian drama or some Indian shark movie,

(33:17):
so you got Bollywood, so you got like beautiful Hindi
melodies going on in the background. And if you're Punjabi
like me, you're going to weddgs and they're playing punga
Punjabi music and it's upbeat. Those were all of my
musical influences. So when I was in that room, it
was not foreign or weird or even contrived for Rishie

(33:37):
and I to have. First of all, when Rishie put
that Indian flu to me, I wasn't like, oh, that's Indian.
I was like, damn, that's sick. That's a sick. Example
that sounds amazing over a hip hop, beat, pop, R
and B chords. It was something brand new, but it
was something. It was all the music that we listened
to in one party. It wasn't like control, it wasn't

(34:00):
like we're trying to create a new genre. We created
a new genre by accident because it was just the
stuff that we were into. So then when we did that,
had written that song originally kind of left it there.
Rishie was working with Juggide, obviously a Punjabbi artist.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
He heard it.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
He was like, this is sick. Jump on it, brav h.
He did his thing. Before you knew it. We had
a song that no one had ever heard. And guess what,
the people that Asian culture at that time had all
of their favorite music on one song. You had punjubbi,
you had hip hop, and you had R and B,
and you had this whole thing in three minutes of

(34:42):
one song. And for the first time ever, I think
by three at that time, young dudes, because if you
were like listening to pun jubby music, they were like
uncle ages.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Exactly and like a good sing but he's like fifty.
All of a sudden, you got these young girls and
guys who were listen to people who look like them, yeah,
doing this stuff, and that kind of I think was
something that was brand new and it it just changed
the game. Man.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, no, I agree with that, even when you see
that in new artists, Like I remember, yeah, the first
time I ever heard a Drake song right right, like
early mixtapes, Like you're like, who's this guy who can
sing and run rap and do his own thing? Now
I know that today, Like you know, Drake's gone on
to just do after Hitt and all the rest of it,
And I think sometimes he gets a hard time where

(35:30):
people are like, oh, yeah, he just makes it, and
I'm like, well, if you think about it, when he started,
he was probably only like real rapper that also did that,
like was able to mix the two. And I've always
I've always loved his music, but to me as well,
it was that same thing where it's like he was
putting together two things that felt natural to him in
his own way, Like he could sing really high notes

(35:50):
and then put in like a rap verse. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
He could do both, Yeah, and it was just exciting.
It was to me, it's always been exciting when people
are not kind of imprisoned and limited by a box.
And it's what you're saying about even the entrepreneur and
the musician in you and allowing yourself, Like I think,

(36:11):
I think today we've become so much better at recognizing
that people are multi hyphen its like you know that
Rihanna can have a music career and be a fashion
I got exactly right. You know that an actress can
also have an amazing company. You know that exactly. Ryan
Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or whatever it may be.
You know, there's there's so many different ways of doing that.

(36:32):
He can own a football team exactly the exactly. But
in the beginning, it was like, no, you're an actor,
Just just be an actor, honored.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
That, do that, and sometimes oh, actually you do this role.
You're only doing comedies. And then an actor could be like, dude, yeah,
I know I'm good at comedy, but like, give me
a drama man, just give me a shot. Yeah, show me,
let me show those skills, right. Yeah, So for me,
it was always like Okay, I do music, but like,
don't tell me, I can only do the these records,

(37:00):
I can only sing these kind of songs. I can
only you know, sing, I can't bust into a rap randomly.
So I was so that always confused me because I
was like, hold on a second, this is my artistic expression,
So surely it should just be why why aren't I
just allowed to do who I am? Because otherwise then

(37:22):
it's not Jay Sean, it's Jay Sewan with other people
in his ear. Then it's not just Drake, it's Drake
with other people in his ear. So I think the
reason why people fall in love with an artist is
because that person has something unique to share with the world, right,
you know, like if you're in a certain mood, you're
gonna be like, man, I know, man, I feel like

(37:43):
I it's put on some Adele right now or something.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Why?

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Because you know what Adele offers, you know what her music,
how it makes you feel?

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, as opposed to just a random singer who's got
a beautiful voice.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah right, truly? Yeah, I know you reminded me of
Matthew McConaughey came on the podcast. He talked about how
he was known as the rom com guy, so he
was doing How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days.
He was doing all those types of movies and he
was amazing at it. It was like ghosts of Girlfriends past,
and like he was that guy. He was like the
hot heart throb you know that holds those movies. And

(38:19):
he said he had to take a two year break
from making movies to shift his brand to be able
to do movies like The Lincoln Lawyer later on Dallas
Bias Club, which he won the award for. And it's
like he literally didn't make movies for two years and
he was getting paid like fifteen million to do a
rom com, right, And he said, for two years he
didn't do anything because that was his brand and he

(38:40):
wanted to do more serious roles. He wanted to do
roles that he cared about. And it took him saying
no for two years. And that's a lot of like,
you know it, it's amazing to think that people who've
made pivots in their career have had to kind of
have these very like interesting transition periods. Yeah, what was
it like for what's the biggest difference between the UK

(39:01):
and the US music scene? Because I think you have that,
you know, you have that as unique experence. There's a
few of you, right, there's you, and then like more
recently obviously that people like Ed Sheeran Adele like, there's
there's few people who've been able to be successful in both.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
I'll tell you a funny thing. Right, So obviously at
the time, pre two thousand and nine, I was lucky
enough to have guarded myself a worldwide fan base excluding
I thought, excluding America. I just thought, there's no way
America knows my music. And that's because America has, Let's
be honest, they have the kreme de la creme of everything.
If you think of any of the biggest stars, they're

(39:34):
usually American, whether they're Hollywood stars, you know, or Canadian
right or from specifically Toronto. So right. But at the time,
so when we're in that's why when we were in London,
London is a small island, and so what happens is
sometimes you can get I refer to it a small
island syndrome. You can walk around your little place and

(39:56):
feel like the big shot.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, man, I'm a daggon them. People know me and
hear me. Yeah, I'm lester Brough. People know me here
boy a Scotland man. People know me in Scotland Brough. Okay, cool,
that's amazing and great and if you can have a
career then you're happy with that, that's great. I always,
again going back to me being a person who's highly driven,

(40:18):
I would always say, take me somewhere when no one
knows me. I want to win them over. Take me somewhere,
take me anywhere where nobody knows me, and let me
see if I can win them over. And that has
always been something that's very dear to me, even when
it comes to shows. Any show, like you could do
a corporate gig right and they have it, and it's

(40:38):
like people be like, oh, they're waiting for the show.
I'll be okay, cool, what's the demographic? This is x
y zed. I don't then think okay, I'm just gonna
sing x y Z song. I go, well, how can
I connect with them? What am I going to be
able to on what level? And then win them over
so that then they can go you know what. I
didn't actually know Jayshaun before or even like his music,

(41:00):
but I like the dude. I like the guy. I
connected with him and he was fun on stage and
he was funny and he was an endearing and then
he actually rocked the crowd and now all of a sudden,
you want him over.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
So when it came to America, I took that same approach.
I was. I remember distinctly being at Passport Control and
I was going to go and sign with cash money.
That's why I was going over there. And it was
a big day for me, and I was super excited.
I was like, I can't believe this man about to
get a record deal in America. But I went knowing

(41:32):
that if I don't succeed, at least I have everything
else that I've worked hard for. And if I do succeed, man,
that's only a bonus. Now that can only be even better.
But I'm excited. I'm a bit gassed up right I'm there.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
It's like, oh my gosh, a big deal, young Money,
catch me record. It's like yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
So then I'm there at passport Control and the guy goes.
You know how they are America. Sometimes they're like, what
is the purpose of you?

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Oh gosh, I still get it. Every time you're nervous.
I get so nervous years and.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
It's like, what are the purpose of your visit to
the United States. I was like, so here's me, and
how I look slightly cocky. I go, be honest with
your mate, that's sign a big record deal. And he
goes yeah, he goes, what's your name? And I go
Jay Sean and he goes, I haven't heard of you.
So now I know I've got work to do right
on my entry to this country. The Good Lord has

(42:30):
gone relax, mate, calm your ego. There's work to be done.
And it was through that one guy, that immigration officer
who looked me dead in the eye and said, so what,
I haven't heard of you? And I thought, all right,
let's do this. Let's work. Let's work.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
It's always the immigration officers. I don't recognize anyone man.
I get the same thing every just the best.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
But I love that and Bro, you it humbled me
in a split second. And I'm not saying I had
a big head either, But if I was to be
cocky about my venture in the United States, I learned
right there. And then bro, prove yourself again. And that's
what I had to do from scratch.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, And it's such a great mindset to have because
you could have had that interaction and gone where you
should know me, right, you could do that or you
will know, Yeah you will get cocky, right, yeah, you
will know. And it's just it's so interesting because I
feel like that is just never a satisfying way to live.
That's what I've discovered, Like the the idea of thinking

(43:30):
you're at the top of the mountain or that you're
doing things it's the same thing as you said earlier,
like when you're making music from love, passion and excitement.
I feel like if you're doing something because of revenge,
because of proving someone wrong, because of I'll show you
because I'll see you at the top, Like when you
do things with that energy, even if and when you

(43:52):
make it, it never fulfills you because that person may not
have the reaction you want them to have their place,
that person would still be like, yeah, don't listen to me,
I don't like your music. Or when you go up
to that guy and go, oh wait, did you hear
me now I'm number one Billboard and they go, yeah,
my girlfriend didn't like it exactly, but yeah, it still
doesn't It won't feel you, bro.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
And it's a very very good point, and I think
that it's it's such an important point because for me,
twenty years of work, Okay, what have I learned? What
are my lessons? I've been around the world. We were
calculating this of coming up to a million miles just
on one airline. Wow, just on one airline. Wow. So

(44:33):
I've definitely done way more. Must have been around the
world fifty times, at least fifty in terms of my legs, Yeah, easily.
That means I have had experiences after experience after experience
after experience after experience, some amazing, some horrible, some that
can make you feel like you're on top of the world,

(44:54):
and some that can pull you into a dark place
and you don't even want to talk to anyone depressed.
So where's that safe place? Where's the place where you're
just okay? Man, I'm alright with this. I'm in this
industry and it can either make me or break me,
or it can do neither, or I can just have
a great time while I'm here, make people happy that

(45:16):
I love, take care of my family, earn a good living.
And it all comes down to exactly what you just said,
Why are you doing this? If I was for the
rest of my career only driven to write songs and
perform and record to beat the big monster that is down.

(45:37):
If that was my only incentive, gotta beat down, gotta
be down, I've gotta top that. I am setting myself
up for failure, A and definitely a ton of anxiety,
a ton of like bad feelings and feelings that just
aren't on a vibe at all, because I'm doing it
all for the wrong reasons. If if I then go,

(46:01):
if I switch my mentality and go, Man, how lucky
were you? How blessed were you to be able to
have written that beautiful unicorn of a song that makes
so many people happy, That really did break a lot
of records and change your life. Gave you a life, man,
gave you a life. Put that in your back pocket. Yeah,

(46:21):
and be grateful and say thank you. That was wicked,
That was amazing. Now let's go on and write stuff
that you enjoy, that you love, that perhaps your fans
might connect to. But if I was to make the
metric of my happiness chart positions, comments, likes, followers, I'm
setting myself up failure because I can't control any of

(46:43):
those things at all. The only thing I can control
is the music that I write. The music that I record,
the music I put into this world, the way I
interact with people when I'm on stage and make them
feel those are the things I can control. And so
therefore my happiness hopefully will be in a safe place,

(47:03):
you know, because I'm not pinning it, I'm not rooting
it in something that is so out of my control.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
There's this quote that I heard that someone said that,
you know, at one point I had to stop being
a hit machine and go back to being an artist.
And I love that idea, but I feel every artist
goes through this series of phases where you start as
a pure artist, You start with pure creativity and pure patchet,

(47:29):
and then in the scaling of a business of having
team members of whatever it is, you become a hit machine.
And you kind of try and like you said, you
try and like mathematically figure out the equation. You may
kind of have some hits, you may not have some hits,
but you have this and either way, whether you've had
it or whether you haven't, you become unfulfilled. And that's

(47:49):
what happens so externally, even if this person is having
all the number ones, they're still feeling internally fulfilled because
it doesn't link back to that pure artistry that they
started started doing and then they try to go back there.
Everyone goes back that everyone wants to go back there.
Some people take thirty years, some people do it in
three years. I've met people at both ends of the

(48:10):
spectrum who they made stuff they hated for thirty years.
Some people gave up after three years and said, you
know what, I'm going back to doing what I love right,
And it's normal, Like it's normal for everyone to have
that so so true. It's so wonderful to hear you
talk about it in that way, because I think that
we had Rick Rubin here a few months ago and
he was saying the same thing.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
He was just like you.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
He was saying the same thing you said. He was like,
we're not music isn't made formulaically. Like he was like,
you're not trying to think what people are going to love,
and so I'm gonna make it. And you know, to
hear that across artists and musicians, different genres, different backgrounds,
it speaks to a lot when was your darkest time
or when was a moment where you felt like you'd
you were just this is not.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
You know, it's so true. Everything you're saying artists we are.
We exist in one of two states. We're either you
can't mess with me best or I suck. Everyone hates me.
I'm the worst. I should quit.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I can relate in between.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
The hardest place to be is I'm all right, I'm
gonna right. I guess I'm gonna write. Artist who wants
to be I'm an alright artist? Nobody how's it good?
All right? Man? Nobody wants that. So if you're not
killing it, you're here.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
I suck.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
I should quit. Nobody likes me. People aren't listening to
my music. That listen to that person's music. So of
course I've had those moments. Not only have I had
them epically in one particular point in my life. My
whole journey man has been like It's been like the
Rocky Story, which is why I'm so obsessed with Rocky.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
And love Rocky bro The Slide docs out.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
I watched it. I'm also obsessed with Sorests, the dude.
That dude, he's he's so smart, and I watched the
I watched it. I'm not going to ruin it for you.
But one thing I've always known for about SYBESTERI stallone
is that this guy bet on himself. That's the story.
We know. He bet on himself. Didn't get cast in
movies because of the way he looked, the way you spoke.
So what did he do? He wrote roles for himself.

(50:19):
What an amazing, what a genius thing to do that
you're not gonna cast me? Fine, and he bet on
himself with Rocky, but he didn't win immediately in Rocky.
But what that story tells me is, here's a grit.
Here's a guy, a bum, just a dude that no
one pays attention to. But he's still a human being.
He symbolizes your average Joe, your average Joe who the

(50:43):
world ain't really looking at. They don't really stop to
notice him. But he has a secret dream. He has
a little dream inside of him, you know what I mean.
And then when he gets that opportunity, he goes for
it because he's gotten a nothing to lose. But b
he's all hot, he's all hot, and he's doing it
from a place of love. He doesn't necessarily need that belt.
He just loves a the game. And B, I can't

(51:06):
believe I got this opportunity. Man, I'm gonna take this
I'm gonna take it with both my hands. I'm not
gonna let go. But then the Rocky saga, the storyline continues,
the rise and then the fall. And that's why he's
to me he's such a great writer, is because I
think he was simultaneously writing about what was going on
in his life, from nobody to becoming the biggest stuy

(51:26):
in Hollywood to then maybe getting caught up in the game,
losing your roots. Oh now I'm not even speaking the
same way. I don't walk the same way, talk the
same way, I don't write the same way. Because now
I'm a star, people are looking at me expecting different things.
And my career was like that when I started off.
I just wrote from the heart. Man. I wrote it
because Jay, Rishie Rich and Juggie Deer coming through on

(51:48):
a song. Who says that, why are you calling your
own names out on a song? Most songs are just like, hey, girls,
so you from the last time. It's an imaginary story
about something now that you. Yeah, this guy thinks it's
okay on his first ever song to Goya, of the song,
it's not the intro part.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
It's not like that, yo, It's yeah, it's not it's
not that far. It's it's the verse.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
It's the verse. Why young, cockiness, fresh fun? Not even
thinking about it, not studying other songs, going well, what
are the kind of lyrics today?

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Write?

Speaker 2 (52:24):
What are the big hits? I did it and it
connected and it felt right and it worked first album.
I mean, you're familiar with you all.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Against I remember buying Me against Myself on CD There
You Go, because I was so excited to look at
the art and I love the idea because on the
last track you had to wait like a few minutes
and fast forward it to wait for like bonus material.
I love this kind of like hidden things like yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Mass yeah, and So Me against Myself? Why was it
even called Me against Myself? It was called me against myself? Because, bro,
in all honesty, truth be told, from the beginning of
my career, I have been in this little bubble where
I have been fighting myself the whole time. The rapper

(53:08):
versus the singer, the R and B guy versus the
pop guy. It's always been this duality of who is
actually keeping it real and who's the one making the
money and you know, up on the stages, and are
they the same person? Because the guy who's keeping it
real was the rapper. He was the guy who was like, yo,
you sold out. You're writing these fictional songs about hey,

(53:31):
baby girl, this, baby girl that, and on the song
me against myself, it's literally the rapper versus the singer.
And the other part of this whole thing was it
was me against everyone else in the music industry because
at the time when I started, I didn't really know it,

(53:52):
know it, and you know, but now we look back,
I was really out there by myself as the only
Asian kid in a sea of and we're talking like
a bit of the mainstream artists now.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
And twenty years ago, even more so twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
And it was only until I sort of really started
coming across situations where I realized I am the odd
one out, I am the fish out of water here,
I'm the one that doesn't look like anybody else. It
was very different, and you know, for me, I felt
like at that point the only thing that was going

(54:24):
to get me through all of this was by staying
true to who I am. Right, So there's this, you
know song I wrote called good Enough. So what I
would do is I would instead of screaming about it
on interviews and ranting on about it and complaining about
how difficult it is trying to break through and not
having the same opportunities as other artists. I used to

(54:47):
disguise my songs my love songs. I used to write
open letters to the music industry and disguise them as
love songs. So there's a song on my first album
on Me Against Myself called good Enough, And in the lyrics,
you think he's talking about a girl who's not the
same race as her, so like he's dating a girl

(55:07):
from a different race. But it's actually a letter, open
letter to the music industry, and it says it says,
I've got my mother's skin, I've got my father's eyes.
That's something that I can't deny, and that's nothing that
I want to hide. And even though my roots come
from the other side, they told me that they won't mind,
because I heard that love is blind. And then it says,
how do I change a million minds in this lifetime?

(55:29):
What is it I have to do if I erase
my history? What defines me? If I had to change
my truth, would I be good enough for you? And
really it was about me talking to the music industry, yeah,
saying like, I'm just like you. Why are you giving
me a harder time? Man, listen to my music, tell
me if it fits in where it should fit in.

(55:51):
So but when all that stuff started to happen, I
went in a bit of a It was hard for me.
I went into like a little bit of a dark
place because I was like the Saint, this is meant
to be fun, this is meant to be my dream,
and now like I'm not getting the same opportunities. And
I didn't know what to do about that. You know,
when my first album, when they tried to take me
onto the second album at Virgin, I realized that these

(56:14):
people don't understand me, they don't understand my vision, my art.
I'm gonna go step out. So any money that I
had earned off that first album and touring, I invested
in myself, like Sylvester Stallone, and that's where I did
my Own Way album. Of course why it's called My
Own Way. On that album, I remember leaving Virgin and

(56:36):
at the time being told, don't worry, you're gonna get
another record deal. You know you've got all the success,
You've got these chart hits. Of course you're gonna get signed. Immediately,
I was like, yeah, okay, good, I'll get signed to
a label that understands me. Then happen didn't happened, And
now I'm like, well, I had like four years in
the game, that's it. Maybe I should have stayed with

(56:57):
virgin who who else gets a major record deal and
then walks away from And then I had to talk
to my parents tell them the situation. I've just given
up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one
album out toward the World a little bit. Didn't really
smash it, though, did I Like for the Indians around

(57:18):
the world, yes, I smashed it. Of course, they were
like the first guy, our guy, but in terms of
mainstream they were kind of like, oh yeah, that guy
had a couple of songs. So I remember being lost,
really lost, and I pretended actually to my parents that
I was off to the studio working on a new album.

(57:39):
And there were times where I would get my car
and I was drive around park up somewhere and literally
sit down in my car and go and cry and
your own on my own and just cry because I
was so lost and so scared. Here's a guy who
had all the big dreams in the world or the

(58:00):
guy who worked so hard at school two degrees. I
had to just really just sit there and think about
there has to be a reason. There has to be
a reason that this gift was given to me, that
this blessing was given to me to be able to
try to fly the flag for us. What do I do?
It can't just end it amazingly as the universe would

(58:20):
have it. About two weeks later, there was this event
where I was in doing like a meet and greet
and this kid comes up to me and he's about
sixteen seventeen at the time, hands me a CD and
he goes, hey, man, I'm such a big fan I
make music. Please listen to it if you can. My
contact details are on there. So yeah, cool man. Now

(58:40):
look when this happens, as you know, like sometimes we're
like you're bro cool, but sometimes you get one hundred
CDs you don't get to listen to them all. On
the way home, put it in the car. Listening to it,
I'm like like this beat is insane. And I was like, holy,

(59:03):
I'm calling this guy straight away. I picked him up,
picked up the phone and I was like, where do
you live? Where's your studio. He's like jashon. I was
like yeah, He's like, bro, come on. I was like, no,
I'm coming over now to your studio. And he had
a studio in his garden in Slough. He had a
studio in his garden shed in Slough and this is

(59:24):
a fan of mine. And I said we're gonna work.
He's like, dude, come on. I was like, I'm serious.
And it was just me and him, and on that
day I wrote write it with this kid who had
just given me a demo CD. He had a dream,
He had a lofty dream. He didn't know that. I
was also in a place in my life where I

(59:45):
needed I needed something. He needed something and I needed something.
We both wanted to win. And that song was just
sent bro, and it changed everything. That song obviously, as
you know.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
I mean, I was about living, and that song has
had so many lives, yeah, and so many edits and
so many like it's insane. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
But I and without have getting too heavy on the
spiritual shit about it. I think it's because there is
something special about that song. I think it's because that song,
it's very genesis, came from a place of where I
was at my lowest and needed so badly to be
plucked out of this dark place. And I needed something
from up here. Man, I needed something to lift me up.

(01:00:29):
And that song not only just did that for me,
It's kind of like a sacred song for me, you know.
And it gave this kid a life. It gave him
an entire career one song. And then fast forward twelve
years later, it goes and gives another guy a life,
some random dude in Lithuania who's just like done a

(01:00:52):
remix and put it on YouTube, and then it goes
on TikTok. This guy is now touring the world, do
you know what I mean? So, like, you know, it
did pretty good for me during the pandemic. Yeah, a
little nice little pocket change for me too, And it
was like, you know, it's special. So there you go.
There was my rocky story. Right, yeah, boom down here

(01:01:12):
in the dumps. Back up now, right, it's out Jase Seawan.
Version two's out, shaved head, right, the spikes are on
the shaved head, and all of a sudden, man, I
got another shot at it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
The reason why I love hearing it is because I remember,
like I remember trying to figure out what had happened
between the two albums too, and I remember like, as
as your fans were following, it was like, I can't remember.
It was like was it relentless or reckless? Relentless? Right?
It was relentless, and it was like, yeah, you were
seeing that shift and you never know what's going on
on the other side. The best part about that story, though,

(01:01:46):
is the randomness and allowing the randomness, because I think
so often as you become more successful, you become more closed,
and you become more are You're just a little kid.
What do you have? And that ego. We've talked about
ego a few times in this conversation. It just shows
me again and again and again the thing that gets

(01:02:06):
in all of our ways is our ego. Ego stops
you from being creative because you're scared of what your
friends will think. That's ego. Ego stops you when you
start thinking you're the man getting into America. And if
you would have acted in that way back at that guy,
but you were like, no, no, no, I'm going to get better.
I need more. I need to get more people to
know my work. And then ego again could have stopped

(01:02:27):
you from going. He's a little kid. What is he Noo,
I'm jas schwan like he's just everyone gives me CDs.
It's so interesting just how we have to work against
our ego constantly, and me against myself in and of itself,
is actually us against our ego on a daily basis.
That's the real battle. The real battle is us against
our ego. It really is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
It's so true, man, I think I think all of
that ties in also bro so just keeping not just
keeping your eyes open, right, but keeping your mind open.
And the thing is, I always look at it like this.
And self awareness is obviously something that you of course
talk about a lot, and some people go their whole life, man,
not being self aware, Okay, their whole life, I think

(01:03:12):
very Fortunately for myself, I got it quite early on
once I started this career, I kind of understood again
just like standing out as the only brown dude, I
was very self aware. I understood also understanding that when
I came across those problems and those obstacles, I realized
very quickly that my sense of humor was able to
get me out of them rather than letting it destroy me.
So rather than letting me go when someone says something

(01:03:34):
dumb or something stupid or insensitive or culturally inappropriate. Instead
of getting mad and causing an argument, I would use
wit and intelligence to be able to get myself out
of it. Now I realized what kind of person I
was in this industry that I'm in, and this industry
you know, as you know, it can be very, very fake.
It can be very it's hard to find connections with

(01:03:55):
certain people. But if you know who you are in
that space, I think you're going that just you'll be
okay through the highs and through the lows, do you
know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
But yeah, I love what I love that you recognize that,
because it's it's very true. If I wasn't open to
the randomness and I wasn't open to the science, you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Just miss out. And I think about that, right, like,
I think we all have to reflect on our own
life and go where do we miss out on that randomness?
Because we've started to think that things have to be
formulaic or equations or perfectly fitting or coming from the
right source. Like sometimes yes, you know, right, Like we

(01:04:35):
always think, oh yeah, that business person will tell me
the right thing, or that individual and it's like, well, no,
there could be some random person in your family or
your friends group who says one thing to you that
actually shoots you off in an amazing direction. There was
I'm going to give a shout. Me and Jeremy had
a call like this recently. So Jeremy said to me,

(01:04:55):
he goes to me. He said to me, I just
called I called him randomly. I was on a and
I hadn't caught up with them for a while, so
I'll call up Jeremy and we start having this phone call.
And I had no agenda, there was no plan. It
was just catching up with the mate. And he said
to me random because Jay, I can't wait till you
start a school. And I was like, dude, what are
you talking about? Very Jeremy, Yeah, yeah, And I was like,

(01:05:19):
first of all, Jeremy, I don't have kids, so I
don't even know what school feels like for kids. Second
of all, I feel really unqualified to start a school.
I think it's actually very There needs to be a
lot of research, There needs to be a lot of understanding,
like dealing with kids' mind should be dealt with extremely
delicately and thoughtfully. I don't think everyone should start schools. Thirdly,

(01:05:40):
like sure, it's a nice idea, but like it's so
like I wouldn't. I've never even thought of that as
even a concept in my life. But I answered all
of that, and then immediately something came to my mind.
I'd love to go and study the best schools on
the planet. And I was like, I would love to
actually go and understand not because I want to start
a school, but because I would love to understand the

(01:06:02):
human mind and what we're messing up that's creating kids
who cause issues in the world versus kids that get
it right. Now. There's lots of studies and research, but
I would actually love to go and sit with parents
and teachers. And I came back to my team the
next day I was like, guys, I have to go
and do this, and we have to document it and
we have to get because not because I think there's
content and I don't even know what I do with it.

(01:06:23):
I just know that I would be fascinated if over
the next five years I could understand more deeply how
to build more compassionate children. Not because I want to
start a school, not because I think I should. Random conversation.
It's random conversation that my mate just said, I could
be like, what does Jeremy know I've got a content,
you know, I've got stuff going on. You know, he's nice.

(01:06:45):
He thinks he wants me to start a school, but
like that's it. But really it sparked, like genuinely, I
can't tell you how much that idea is, Like you
are captivated because I'm like, yeah, you know, I'd love
to know how we build compassionate, empowered, confident children who
change the world. I would love to understand that on
a very deep, intimate and personal level. And so I

(01:07:06):
started researching, like where are the best schools in the world,
and like what are the schools that make the most
creative kids? What are the school that make the most
of this kids. So I'm like, I've got to go
to the school in Spain. I've got to go to
this girl. And I was like, amazing, travel now feels alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's not like I've got to jump on a plane
to do tod It's like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
It's and it's for a purpose and it's fun. It's
something fun. And I think, really, what you're onto there,
bro is is it's very easy to like sort of
become complacent as well, like you go, this is what
I do great studio at this time, I write a song, great,
blah blah blah. When do you find out if we've
got if you're lucky enough to have another forty fifty
years on this earth? Right, what's going to light us

(01:07:42):
up that whole journey? What's And I think about that constantly.
If I've already done this much, I have been lucky enough,
blessed enough to have twenty years in the music industry,
What am I going to do for the rest of
my life? What's going to light me up? And I'm
just gonna retire. I'm just gonna sit there lovely. I
got my kids with my family and my wife. That's lovely.

(01:08:03):
It's beautiful. But I'm not like that. I need something
to fire me up. Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Which is like I said, why I did this thing,
all of these different companies that I've created, But the
biggest thing now that really lights me up, Jay, is
seeing what's happening with this new generation of Asian artists.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
I was about to ask you it really is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
It's crazy. Man. I I am, as you probably know,
haven't done an album for a long time. Okay, a
lot of people you man, when you're gonna do another album,
And you know what my answer always was, there's what
I said, honestly, is what I used to say. Nobody
cares about an album anymore. They just want music content.

(01:08:45):
If you, let's say your favorite arts, let's just say
Drake for example. Let's just say you're waiting for a
Drake album, and it's like a Guys, I'm gonna be
back in three years. I'm gonna just work really hard
on this in this day and age that we're in
with our attention spans, ain't no, I'm waiting three years,
which is why he could turn one out a year.
But that's Drake. But people don't want to wait around.

(01:09:07):
So I used to just said, I said, forget album.
That model is old. It's an old notion. I'll just
keep giving you music. I'll just keep putting it up.
It's on my Spotify, it's some Apple music. And I
did that consistently for years, and through doing that, I
sort of like, you know, just spend a lot of
time on these streaming platforms. I started discovering all this music,

(01:09:30):
which to me was reminiscent of what me and Rishi
and JUGI were doing twenty years ago. So all of
a sudden you had these kids from India singing in
Punjubbi but they're singing over like a drill beat and
there's like an English vocal on there from some random artists.
And I was like, this fusion stuff is happening again,

(01:09:51):
except this time it's happening with these twenty year old
kids who are living in India, who have basically grown
up with access to the Internet from the moment there born.
They got this device. So yeah, of course they're listened
to Bollyword and then listen to all this stuff, but
they're also listening to Travis Scott and they're listening to
you know, and then Rihanna whatever it is. So that

(01:10:12):
was us twenty years ago, and I, when I tell you,
something happened inside me. It just started bubbling. I was like,
I need to get in front of these kids. I
need to soak up their energy. It's that youthful energy,
that excitement because they're not jaded. They're not they haven't
even stepped into the industry yet. They're just kids having fun.
That's who I was twenty years ago, and it lit

(01:10:34):
me up and I said to Jeremy, and of course
it was the best news you ever heard. I was like, Jeremy,
that's it decided. Man. He was like, you're what an album?
I was like, yep, and we're going to India. That's
why we're doing it. He's like, great, never been to India.
I was like, Oh, this is going to be fun
for you, bro.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
So we did.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
We went to India this year and I recorded three
quarters of my album in India with these guys, these
immenseally talented kids whose faces were just lit up from music.
There was no journey, they hadn't even been on a
journey yet. There were no obstacles, there was no problems,
there were no highs and lows. It was just love

(01:11:14):
for music. And this album for me, now, I'm so
excited about it because again, it came from a place
of joy and excitement, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so it's so interesting, how
like even that with the going back to your Rocky
story example, there's Rocky five where he trains Tommy Gunn Yeah,
and it's like that whole feeling of he gets his
enthusiasm back because he's back in there he's with a
young guy who reminds him of himself, and like, again,

(01:11:45):
there's such a need for us to always go and
be with the beginner again and go to the source again,
and we miss out on that in life because the
higher you get again, less randomness I means you spend
time with the same people. You're not spending time with
the person who's at the grassroots, who's got their finger
on the pulse. And all of a sudden again you're disconnected. Yeah,

(01:12:06):
you're disconnected, Yeah, completely disconnected.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
And that's so right, man. I felt myself going. I
felt like through through my journey and through twenty years.
You know what's really interesting is that it's very easy
to age yourself out the game, right it is. And
you know, I think it's funny. I don't know if
you've ever too, if any of the other artists who
you've had on your podcast I've ever talked about this

(01:12:30):
ageism is a funny thing in the music Yeah, yeah,
I think we are in the music industry. It's weird, right, Like,
if you're an actor, it's brilliant. You just get to
play older roles. Yeah, and sometimes they've become even better
because they've been active for so many years and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Now right, well, now I feel like most like main
the main actors like in movies are fifty years old, right,
that's like the standard age if you actually checked their age.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Yeah, it's really interesting. So in a way, the more
time you spend there, the more years you put into
that craft will actually play off. I mean, let's say
if I was a doctor right now, I'll probably be
a consultant within a few years. The more years you
put in, you step up the ladder. And whereas music,
it's like the more years you put in, it's like
you're ending. You're going closer towards the finish line, and

(01:13:11):
they're like, come mate, enough, now I get off stage.
No one wants to see a fifty year old dancing around, right,
And it's a very weird thing. If again, if I
didn't have a sense of humor about that, I could
be like, who are you to tell me when to
stop working? Who are you to tell me I'm too
old to be on that stage? Who are you to
tell me that I have not done anything great since

(01:13:33):
that song or this song? But I do understand, I
do understand. It's kind of awkward and cringe worthy. At
some point if you see some people who aren't self
aware enough to understand that, Bro, maybe you shouldn't be
dancing right now, go and sit on a stool. Make
the song acoustic, and let's just get that audience.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Yeah, right, Being able to let go of a former
identity that worked, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
That's right. That's so interesting. And the thing is, quite
often we're frozen in time. I'm frozen in time on
those plaques in my house and in Jeremy's house, there's
a baby face Jasehwan, And I look at him, and
I see that young boy, and I see what he's achieved,
and I'm proud of him. But I'm also very aware

(01:14:20):
that maybe I don't want to keep doing this ten
years down the line. Who knows, I mean, truth be told.
I'm sure Snoop and all these guys said that they
wouldn't be rapping.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
I feel like your favorite artists redoing songs that are
either nostalgic. I think nostalgia is such a big part
of music, right, You listen to music to feel that
way again. To me, exactly like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
For me with us, she too.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
I don't think I should have made a load of
new music in recently, it's like to me when he
did You Remind Me, obviously, and there was this scene
in that You Remind Me video where the song shuts off,
but he's on that silhouette of that, you know, the
son's in the background, and he did that on stage
and for me, I was just like, that's all I
want to see because to me, it's like that is

(01:15:03):
exactly where I was at sixteen. I remember trying to
do the moves and failing exactly, and I still anything.
I don't dance. Yeah, but that's the thing. And it's
like if Eminem picks up a mike ever, I will
be there. I will just sit and watch. I mean,
I mean watching Beckham in his documentary Take three Kicks
and Happily words, David Beckham play football any day of
the week because there's there's a feeling there that you'll

(01:15:25):
never get because nostalgia is built that way. Nostalgia will
never change. Like if you had a positive experience watching Rocky.
I can still watch Rocky because me and my dad
used to watch Rocky together, so it will never Rocky
will never ever be old or boring for me because
you know, I've watched Rocky a million times, Bro, every

(01:15:45):
word of all of them, even Rocky five, even though
they say it's a bad one. I still love Rocky
love it right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
But Bro, you you bring up such a good point.
It's such a true point. Yeah, which is why I mean,
if you go to Vegas White why all of the
biggest acts are noster I act. But they put you
in a place where you just feel they transport you
back in time. What can ever transport you back in time?
As well as music? Does you know where you were,
what you were wearing, what girl you were dating? You

(01:16:12):
know all of that stuff. You know, when you listen
to a song, you know where you were, and it's
a beautiful thing. But it's really funny. You reminded me
of something when he said about the Rocky thing, right,
and you were saying again just to go back to that.
The other day when I was watching a document his documentary,
and I'm not not going to spoil anything for you.
There's some of the scenes are in his house in LA.

(01:16:34):
You've probably been to his house.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
I haven't. I haven't. I've only met him once and
he was amazing. Dude. Yeah, I've only met once and
he's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
I hope. I'm so glad he lived up to what.
But here's a guy who's been acting for what fifty
years now, fifty fifty years in the game, and what
was his biggest breakthrough here? Rocky Rocky one biggest breakthrough here?
But then fifty years of more films. Now, if Sylvester

(01:17:01):
Stallone is walking down Sunset Boulevard and me and my
maid or whoever was there and they saw him, oh
my god, or just any person sees him, what do
you think he hears every day of his life? Your Rocky? Right,
that's what we do. Now. He could take that in
one of two ways, couldn't he. He could either go

(01:17:22):
shut up, I've done like a hundred films what he
keep going back to Rocky? Or he could go, yo,
I get it because I love Rocky too, and Rocky
for me changed my life. And I know you guys
love Rocky totally. And he took Rocky his baby that
changed his whole life. And instead of rejecting it and
going you remind me of the fact that maybe I've

(01:17:45):
never topped you, instead of doing that, He's like, come here,
I'll put a massive statue of myself as Rocky in
my swimming pool in my house, and I will have
all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house and I
will embrace you and I will be grateful for you. Yeah,
and that I really love that because I think the

(01:18:06):
problem as artists is that sometimes we want to when
we do a show, right, people are waiting.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
You go see Michael Jackson. It's Michael Jackson. He has
some of the biggest best songs on planet Earth, one
of the biggest pop stars that ever lived. What are
people waiting for? And you want to see him do
his dance and moonwalk and he's probably like, I'm Michael
Jackson and that's what you're waiting for, bijeon.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Oh great, of.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Course they are, because that's why they fell in love
with him, and that's why they fell in love with
Rocky and they're the people who for me in American man,
they fall in love with down. So when I do
my shows and stuff like that, whatever it is, even
if I've got new songs, I'm not turning my concert
into me. I'm not turning it into Hey, guys, I
know that you loads of songs that you guys want

(01:18:55):
to hear, but I'm actually gonna spend the next forty
five minutes singing my brand new album not doing it.
They don't care because they don't know it. The show's
for them.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Yeah. Right, It's such a good point. And I love
this idea of you know, every we all and whether
it's age, whether it's time, whether it's changes in life,
there is a part of your identity where you have
to shad, you have to let go, like everyone has
to do that. And what's amazing is I actually saw
what you just said you don't do happen recently. I
won't name the aryst I'll tell you after it. I'll

(01:19:23):
tell you after it. Right. So it comes on stage
and we're waiting for this song, right, waiting and he's
he's the he's the first act before the main stage.
But it's still an artist that I love, and I'm
waiting for the song. The beat comes on and we're
all there and yes, like me and Radi and our
friends that we went, we're really excited. And then ten

(01:19:43):
seconds into the track they cut the beat and he goes,
you think I'm going to do that? Here he goes,
you think I'm going to give you that alsong? He
goes in Oh, thirty years of songs to give you,
and then he goes plays all these songs that we
didn't recognize and he actually did that, and it was like,
I was like, you just took away my moment, Bro.
I wanted you to do that song. Not because I'm
limiting you, not because I think you have no other hits.

(01:20:05):
You actually a really talented but that song is so
special and iconic. Yeah, that I need to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
I need to hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
And I felt like ten seconds of it was all
he gave us. And then and then he never went
back to it, and I thought, oh, maybe he gave
it ten seconds, he'll go back set finished. Didn't get it,
you know. And that's exactly that feeling.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Of our own stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
But you're saying we're dealing with that. We're all dealing
with that. We all have a trapped identity somewhere. All
of us have what you're saying somewhere, and somehow we're
actually mad at it, right, it's annoyed by it rather
than welcoming and embracing it. And I think about that,
it's been ten years since I left the monastery. I'm

(01:20:44):
a very different externally, a very different person. Today, I'm married, businesses,
we have you know, media, we change where we live,
like so many things. But in my heart, I'm the
same person. I'm a very different Externally, my life has
different things. Of course I've changed. People change to me,
they've changed, but I embraced that experience. It's a massive
part of me. But I found that whether you embrace

(01:21:06):
or reject, people always have an issue with it because
it doesn't make sense to them if it doesn't fit
into their version of how they perceive you. It's complicated,
and I think for me, I've I've learned to accept
that I need to give myself permission to be who
I am today, to be who I was ten years
ago and who I will be ten years from now,

(01:21:27):
and I promise you it won't be the same. And
I need to give myself permission to allow that. And
I think we when you see, like you said, when
you see silves and give himself permission, I was. We
had Arnold Schwarzninger on the podcast. He's the same. He
has he has the original Terminator outfit in his place,
he has alien, he has everything, and he loves it

(01:21:48):
like he really loves it. And I love him for
it because I'm like, yeah, bro, you to you of
course you should. You crushed it and you're not trying.
He's not trying to be determinator anymore. He's not trying
to be But he loves it. He loves was doing
we want. My social media manager asked him a question
on the way out, and they said, do you have
any last words? And you're like, I'll be bad, you know, like, oh,
he loves it, and I love it, and I love

(01:22:09):
it and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
Give him what they want.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Yeah, and I love him for it. And he's not
he's not disingenuous, he's not inauthentic, he's not stuck in
the past. He's a really he was great to chat to.
And so yeah, man, all these people were talking about
but Jay, I could talk to you for hours. I
think we have. Yeah, we have been. I could genuinely
talk to you guys, and I love this and I
think we've What I love about this conversation, genuine is

(01:22:32):
I feel like we've drawn like you pulled out Rocky,
and I think because we have that, we we've drawn
this really nice arc and narrative for people. And I
hope everyone who's listening and watching this I really hope
that you find your own rocky journey, like genuinely in
your own way as you've seen mirrored in your life
that you've shared so wonderfully today. But Jay, we end
every episode with a final five or the Fast five.

(01:22:53):
Jay Sean Dizzi your Fast five. The first question is
what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Spend so much time on self improvement that you have
no time to criticize. Others love it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
That is great advice and no one's ever said it
on the show. Second question, what is the worst advice
you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
It sounds so stupid, but it's like when you get
the big money, nobody told me how to spend it
or invest it? So great point, right, And nobody told
me anyway about that go buy some houses instead of like,
you know, wasting on stuff like that. So I wish
I actually got some advice on that how to manage money.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
Yeah, that's good, that's good. I hope, I hope all Yeah,
I hope everyone is coming into new money is hearing that?
Question Number three, what has been the gift of parenting
that you didn't expect? Because I know you're a great dad, and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
That is no longer. The world is no longer about me,
My job is no longer about me, My life is
no longer about me. It's all about It's all for
my kids. All of this now is for my kids.
And it's the most beautiful thing. Is there's nothing more
that grounding. You know, then when you can be a
pop star and famous around the world, but you come
home and you're just daddy. It really is the cutest.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Question Number four, What is the thing that surprised you
most about the music industry in twenty years?

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
How much how much of a change technology would have
on it. It's literally flipped it on its head. It
is a totally different animal. There's one hundred and twenty
thousand new songs that come out every day now every day,
every day, one hundred and twenty thousand new songs come out.
So you imagine trying to put get yours is just
a needle in a haystack. And so many people can

(01:24:34):
be independent. You could do whatever you want. Don't need
that big record deal anymore. Although I do have a
record company that I've started for South Asian Talent that
that's my way of giving back.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
I'm so excited about that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
But yeah, and that's what I want to use all
of my twenty years for.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
All of my experience is to now pass it on
to the next generation. So I have experienced it, I
know all about it now, so now it's my turn
to be able to help other people through.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
I love that you're doing that as well, because I
think there's your need for that support. I was probably
the two you know, I was the guy watching jump
off but too scared to go on. Right, that's it,
you know, I.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
Know you love.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
I think the age, but but no that idea of
like there's just I think there's any I'm so happy
that you're doing that. Honestly, when I heard about that,
that was amazing. And so Sata can't come to the event.
I was on a plane. I was out of town.
Fifth and final question, if you could create one law
that everyone in the world had to follow, what would
it be?

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
The obvious thing for me to think that the world
is missing right now is kindness. So what if there
was a law that every person that you meet you
had to do a kind act. But if there was
a law that you had to do one random act
of kindness a day and I think that could go
on to make the world a better place.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Yeah, that would beauty, I think so. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
Even if you didn't want to do it, if it
was a law and you knew you had to do
a random act of kindness for somebody, that could have
a knock on effect.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
Because it would make you do it even end of
the day, like you exact figure it out. Yeah, I
love it, Jay, Sean. Everyone, I'm so grateful Jay, thank
you so much for coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Thank you bro, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Yeah, no, this is so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
I knew it would be. I mean, it would be
yapping on for hours. I don't even know how long.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
I don't know. I'd have to ask these guys. But no,
that was awesome man. Thank you so excited for people
to continue to listen to your new album on Spotify?
And where do you Where do you like as an
Actually that's a great question as a musician. Where do
you like people to discover your work? Now?

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Well, the streaming obviously, the streaming platforms is where it's
all at, right, so everybody knows that whatever they have
a favorite stream but whatever you like it will obviously
be up on there. But really, Also, I love being
on TikTok man.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
I know you do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
You know, TikTok for me is actually a really cathartic
tool because it allows me to my silly, goofy sense
of humor I allowed. It allows me to just be
a human being rather than just an artist. So yeah,
if you guys want to just follow me on TikTok,
it's just at jay Sean and all all of the
usual stuff is very easy. It's just at Jayshan everywhere.
So yeah, man, brother, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
Fun man ma man, if you love this episode, you'll
really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your
inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
My fears are only going to continue to show me
what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears,
the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom,
and I just want to keep doing that.

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Jay Shetty

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