Jelly Roll: 5 Powerful Ways to Overcome Guilt and Shame & How to Finally Forgive Yourself

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm honest enough to be on your podcast today to
tell you that I still get stuck here sometimes. I
probably never said it this honestly, but this is the
podcast to be that real about it is that I
have just.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
He's a crossover artist and we'll waste them one multi
genre multi plata really wrong. You went to jail for
an armed robbery at fifteen? Have you ever thought about
what you'd say to that person if you met them?

Speaker 3 (00:21):
I guess it's the best question I've ever been asked.
I've avoided this question.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Do you truly believe that you're a horrible person? I
can't imagine you're having a horrible heart weird throw to
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(01:09):
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Speaker 3 (01:29):
The number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Jay Setty, Jay Sheetty.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Je.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you
come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest
is someone that I have been dying to have on
the show ever since the moment I saw him perform
live and I got to give him a big hug
the day after. This guest's story is truly unbelievable, truly inspiring,

(01:59):
truly spectacular. I'm speaking about the award winning, Grammy nominated
Nashville native singer songwriter Jelly Roll, who debuted top three
on the Billboard two hundred All Genre chart and number
two on the top Country album charts with his debut
country album, and it earned him the biggest country debut

(02:20):
album in Billboard Consumption chart. History. Jelly Roll was nominated
for Best New Artist and Best Duo Group Performance for
Save Me with Landy Wilson at the twenty twenty four
Grammy Awards, a four times winner at the twenty twenty
three People's Choice Country Awards, and the most nominated male
at the twenty twenty three CMO Awards with five total nominations,

(02:44):
capturing his first CMO Award for New Artists of the
Year for the twenty twenty four CMO Awards. Jelly Roll
was just nominated this morning for Entertainer of the Year,
Album of the Year, and Male Vocalist of the Year.
Jelly Roll is set to least his new album, Beautifully Broken,
on October eleventh and launch his Beautifully Broken Tour on

(03:06):
August twenty seventh. Welcome to on Purpose, Jelly Role.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yes, as you kept reading off, I was getting nervous.
I was like, that's wow, this is all associated with me.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh, it's beautiful to see it. And you know you
just said to me outside, you said, did you ever
dream of this? And I said to you, no, I
didn't dream of it, and you were saying it was
the same back And I just want to take folks
back to how we connected because I went to Clive
Davis's pre Grammy party. That was the first time I've
ever seen you perform, and I was just like, who

(03:40):
is this guy? Like, that's a hard party to perform at.
I feel there's short segments, it's moving fast, there's so
much going on, and you came on stage and you
had everyone in raptures. I remember like MGK was bopping
a lit that stood on his chair on his table,
like everyone was rocking out to you, and I was thinking,
you had everyone in there, fully present, fully locked in.

(04:03):
It was beautiful. So I posted it. I took a video,
posted it. I thought nothing of it. I was just like,
this guy's amazing. Can't way to follow his work, listen
to more of his music? And then you DM me
back and I was just taken away because you said
you were aware of my work and you'd read think
like a monk had a really low time in your life,
and I was like, I was genuinely humbled. I was like,
no way. I was like, I didn't have a clue

(04:24):
that you knew who I was. And I was just
so grateful and I wanted to ask you. They're like,
how did you even get think like a monk? How
did you find on purpose? Like what was the low
time in your life that it found you out?

Speaker 3 (04:34):
It's funny, man.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
So in twenty nineteen, my father passed away in March
of twenty nineteen. He got sick in January of twenty nineteen,
and I had spent the last three months of his
life with him and every day because it was kind
of one of those really kind of slow ninety data
clients and I was coming out of.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
That really really struggling.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
And about a year later, I had gained like sixty
or seventy pounds back right, because I'd lost a lot
of weight at the time and I just felt it
weighing on me. And we were going into COVID at
that point too, and I had discovered you on YouTube
and I think this, I don't remember when did you
launch on purpose? Because I think this was yeah, yeah,
So I just discovered the pod and I was watching

(05:16):
just like the initial stuff, like I got into the
super earlier stuff where you were just like direct to
camera stuff before the pod, and then I was like,
I should read this book. So my wife knows. Side note,
I've always been obsessed with monks and like that whole.
I live a very chaotic life, and I maybe romanticize
this idea of disappearing too the mountains for a year
and refiguring my life out Unlike every other kid that

(05:39):
watched Dumb and Dumber, you know what I'm just saying,
it's like, you.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Know, like maybe this will work.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
So when I read it, and it was a really
big transition for me, my father had just died. I
thought my purpose had been taken away from me because
to that point, music to me was a donkey to
get to people, right, and that was taken away. I
couldn't get to people the way I used to get
to people. I was used to doing two hundred bar

(06:06):
shows a year. So I'm trying to grieve my father
and I'm going through this and we're all going through
this national pandemic together. And of course the fear of
it initially was really strong as well. And that was
kind of that season of life that I got introduced
to mister Jay shetty Man.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
It was really really cool because.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I've always believed that what we put in our body
comes out, and that's a lot deeper than just what
we eat or drink. I think it's what we consume.
You know, if I'm watching a bunch of murder mysteries,
I'll feel a certain kind of anxiety if I watch
them for a month straight. You know, if I'm listening to,
if I'm listening to On Purpose or Doctor Despenser, these
people that I look up to, Cuberman, you know, these

(06:44):
guys that I think are just great.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Then I'm always putting out better stuff. So yeah, you
have no clue how much your art helped me, and
in exchange, I think my art's been able to help people.
It's funny how iron sharpens iron without us even knowing
each other. You know what I mean that I was
being inspired by what you were saying and what you
were doing.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Now, what you're doing is so inspiring. I mean, whenever
I'm hearing you any music you put out, I'm like,
I can pray to this, I can meditate to this,
you know, I can dance to this. It's real heart
music and soul music. And for me hearing that from
you and the big hug you gave me at the Grammys,
I was feeling so much love and so thank you

(07:24):
because knowing that someone who was having such an incredible
impact that I had somehow been connected to your life
was really profound. But you spoke about your father then
losing your father, What was your relationship like with him
up until that point, and what was what walk us
through that moment of losing him and what that felt like?

Speaker 1 (07:42):
He was He was like, really, we were really really
close when I was a really troubled juvenile. My father
was an alcoholic, My mother had her own struggles, and
we wasn't as close whenever I was a kid because
I was just so rebellious in spirit. But as I
got in my twenties and finally got out of that
revolving cycle of the judicial system, me and him started

(08:05):
really getting close and I started leaning on him, and
we would go to happy Hour three or four days
a week, every day, and we'd go sit at the
same spot at the same bar and the mumber and
Street in Nashville called the ten Roufe from four to six.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
And he was such an impactful man.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Later in his life, he really started becoming enriched in
his community in his church, helped with the Room and
the End program for the homeless every Thursday. I mean,
he just was a but he also kind of taught
me that duality of man because he'd still throw one
back and party. He wasn't like a square, you know,
but he was like it was cool. So he kind
of encouraged me, and we were really close. And he

(08:39):
was one of those situations, Jay, that I didn't see
it coming and he didn't either. We all thought he
was good. I knew he was getting older. He was
probably about seventy six, but he was still sharp as attack.
And it kind of out of nowhere, he got a
really he thought he just got sick, and it turned
out that he'd had leukemia for a few years and
just never even really checked on it. But he was
one of them old tough dudes that never went to
the doctor, didn't believe in you know. He was one

(09:01):
of those guys that Grandpa's cough syrup in a good
sweat will get any cold out of you know, drink
a little burbon and go to sleep.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Sleep in a hot room with two blankets.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
You'll be like, oh, like penitentiary dudes, it'll just try
to sweat colds out.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's like, just sweat it out.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
So those last ninety days were really cool for me, Jay,
because I got to really spend the time with him.
Like when he got sick that day, I showed up
to his house, I put him in my car and
drove him to the hospital closest to my house. And
I got to drive up there every morning and hang
out with him all day is you know, all the
way until the end. And it was really cool because
he taught me how to live, and he also taught
me how to die. And uh, because man, he did

(09:34):
it like a gangster. He did it just the way
I thought my father would do it, you know, not
a tear in his eye, not not not a worry
in his face, just just a man of faith that
was just kind of ready to go, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
But it was but it hurt, you know, it hurt hard.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Was there a lesson or something he said at that
time or was it just the way he was, just the.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Way he dealt with it.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
He Uh, he was, I think not even what he said.
One thing he said, I'll never forget. That was funny,
but it stuck with me. Was the nurse came in
to give him his pain pills or whatever medicine it was,
and he chewed it. It was a whole tough just
swallowed it. I said that don't bother you, and he
was just just as quick as he could say it.

(10:14):
He said, sometime when the pills too hard to swallow,
you just got to chew it right.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Stuck with me good, it's like.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
And I thought about that because I was like, that's
so much bigger than just this particular moment, you know
what I mean. But he was always full of those
little one liner wisdoms. That's kind of how it was.
He was the opposite of me. I'll talk to everybody
a lot. My dad was very kind of reserved, and
when he spoke, it really counted, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
And what about your mother, because I've heard that sheilds
she was dealing with her own mental health challenges when
you were growing up. What was that experience like of
you know, having a father that was this way? And
then what was she like? And was she complimenting who
he was? And how does she impact you?

Speaker 1 (10:55):
They were polar opposite. She was she struggled with drugs
and just real mental health stuff. She started becoming really reclusive.
There was a twenty year period in my life that
I didn't see my mother outside of a nightgown, but
maybe twice ever you know, I just never seen her
come out of her room very much more or less
out of our house. And I didn't understand anything about
drugs at the time or mental health, but she really

(11:17):
really struggled with that. But I connected music with her
mental health right because the few times when she was
out of that bedroom and at that kitchen table, she
was thriving. I mean it was like and she would
hold court and she was so special in how she
dealt with people and she's still like this that she
would come downstairs and sit at that table and it

(11:39):
was almost like a light shot out at the top
of the house. The whole family would come into the table.
We wouldn't talk about it. We just like you would
just see them start to Neighbors would start to come over,
her girlfriends would start to pull up. She'd start playing music,
smoking cigarettes, telling stories, talking shit, holding court at the
kitchen table, and it'd be like a group of us

(12:00):
have her four girlfriends sitting around the table. We'd all
be standing around them some I mean like it was
like a crowd trying to just just take anything she'd
give us.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
You know.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
But that's where my love for music came in, because
imagine you're ten years old and you don't see your
mother in a healthy space very much. But when she
seems her healthiest, there's always music playing. There's always this
record player, there's always and I always tell the story, Jada,
it was that you're old enough to remember this era
that we didn't have Google, we didn't have a bunch
of thesauruses, so.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
You just had to believe people.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
So they would just tell these wild stories about I
don't know if any of these stories I heard about
all these songs are true. But she would always set
up a song first for a big story and then
play it. So we were like all on the edge
of our seat and she'd hype up a song that
we'd never heard and then play it. We were all
like listening, like we were watching a movie, like the
first time she played Coward of the County or The Gambler,
Like we're like ears locked, you know what I mean,

(12:52):
or that.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Oh, oh, come my baby, you know, We're just all
like She's like, listen, listen, listen. She wait for the
good parts. We'd all get goosebumps at the end of
a song. And it really really kind of brought that
being young to me. I was like, Oh, this solves problems,
this brings people together, this makes sick people better. Like
there's something happening with this vibration that's different. And I

(13:14):
probably tend Jay And right then I was like, I
want to write songs.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
I came down like a week later with a poem,
you know what I mean. I didn't know how to
write a song, so like I wrote a poem, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Did you sing in perform it for her?

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Oh? Yeah? Every time? Oh dude.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
It got to the point where, like and if she
was downstairs with her girlfriend, she'd called me up there
to read whatever. The most one I wrote was. She
was very looking back now, you don't realize how much
that feeds the positive side of reinforcing a little dreaming
you as a kid. But she I don't even know
if she did it, but she hammered it home because
she made me feel like the bell of the ball.

(13:46):
I mean, she'd be like, Jason, come down here, little Jelly,
Come down here, little Jelly, and I'd come down. She
goes show pat that thing you wrote last week, and
I'd run back up get my little sheet of paper
and I'd come down like, check this out Pat and
Pat would act like it was the coolest thing ever.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
You know, it sucked. Of course I was ken. It
was horrible, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
But they were super, super complimentary, and that was something
that really encouraged me.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Do you still have any of those original poems?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
No, dude, we are such a white trash family. We
lost all our pictures, all our poems. We lost everything.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Man.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, I can imagine. Just no matter how bad you
think it was, it would be fun to look back,
Oh for sure, see what you were writing about.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Just to see that. I'd love to see some of
the my home videos. I was watching the I forget
her name. I think her name is Sadie. She's with
the Duck Dynasty family, but she's a pastor now, and
they were showing a video of her standing on her
kitchen table when she was two going three, going Jesus.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Forgives everybody, He'll love.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
You, and then fast forward and she's twenty eight now
and she like runs a mega church, and it was like, oh,
that's funny. I wonder there's any videos of me being
a little asshole. Yeah, I'm running around wrapping the people.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
That's beautiful, man, that's beautiful. It's uh, how does he
go from that to then being incotrated to the thirteen Like,
I feel like, you know, that's ten years old. You say,
it seems like there's the ability to find joy. You're
looking back and smiling, but then thirteen, that incarceration journey begins.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
It deep rooted insecurities. Early.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I was always a bigger kid, always struggle with an
eating disorder. I just I think I ate my emotions
whenever I was younger in feelings and what was happening
in my environment, in the household and outside. So I
had a little chip on my shoulder naturally as a
young kid, I was I've always said this and it's

(15:31):
but it's true. Excuse my language is, big kids become
are one of two ways. They're either very shy and
very timid, or they're very funny and can be very aggressive.
And I was the funny, aggressive, big guy, you know
what I mean. And I carried that in my neighborhood
was you know, I mean, it was happening. It was
a very active area, you know what I mean. It

(15:51):
was a very very normal, middle lower class neighborhood in
the nineties, So there was just so much crap happening.
It was so easy to get involved. When you're a kid,
you're just looking for any kind of acceptance, any you know,
any any sense of belonging, any sense of want, and
the streets will always give it to you, you know
what I mean. They're they're, they're they're praying on it.
They're they're they're they're praying on it and praying for

(16:13):
it that it happens. And I just immediately got washed
into it just and I also was one of the
people in my family that had a I've probably never
said this this way, and I hope I'll get in trouble.
I didn't have a good relationship with how I looked
at money, you know. I looked at money as the
way out of this particular situation, and I was willing

(16:35):
to do whatever it took to get that. And I
had no morals about it. I had no moral compass
at all.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
You know.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
I mean, I I looked back at those years, Jane,
I'm so embarrassed to talk about them.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
I was such a I was.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I was still a bad person in my early thirties,
but I mean I was a really horrible kid all
the way into my mid twenties.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
I was people always like, You're the nicest dude I've
ever met.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I'm like, I'm so glad, y'all haven't met nobody that
need me twenty years ago, you know what I mean.
But yeah, So I just immediately started getting this shit.
And the first time I caught a real case, i'd gotten, well,
we got caught with weed and stuff and all that
little two days and juvenile stuff. But I'd gotten a
fight with a kid, and back then, they had the
chain wallets, and when we were wrestling, I grabbed a

(17:18):
chain wallet to try to hit them with it. And
that was a strong arm robbery case. So I ended
up in the system for like twenty something months when
I was like thirteen, for that strong arm robbery.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Hey everyone, it's Jay Chatty and I'm thrilled to announce
my podcast tour. For the first time ever. You can
see my on Purpose podcast live and in person. Join
me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations
with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert,
or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences

(17:52):
designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections.
I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on
sell now. I had to Jay Shetty, don't me and
get yours today? Do you truly believe that you're a
horrible person. I can't imagine you're having a horrible heart.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
I kind of leaned towards I don't know if I
had a bad heart as much as I leaned towards
kind of the Damascus thing where I think I was
just a really less than admirable person.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
I was desperate and delusional. I say it.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I was a desperate, delusional dreamer in the desperate park
got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers.
Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer,
you know. But I definitely was consciously making really horrible decisions.
I just had such an anger. I was just so
mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault
of mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took

(18:48):
zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the
kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started
with everything but me, you know what I mean? And
it took years for me to break that, like years
of work, solid work to just like break that. It
also has took in years of work for me to
even forgive that kid, years of real intensive work to

(19:12):
just be like, you know what, because when you're sixteen
and you do something very manipulative and you look back
at it, Jay, you're like, man, that was super manipulative. Like, man,
what was I thinking back then? That's just I knew
what I was doing. I knew I was being being manipulative. Man,
I was also sixteen. I was a kid. And I
know that because I now have a sixteen year old
and Jay, Man, she's the smartest kid's cool And of

(19:32):
course everybody thinks they got the coolest smartest kid. I'm
no exception, you know, but she's the smartest. She's so
much smarter than me. She's so much better than me.
She's gonna be everything I wasn't in life. It's going
to be so fun to watch. But she'll still do
shit that'll make me go, oh, she's sixteen.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Like all the time, like I have moments where I
look like, dude, I think you could build a rocket,
And then I have moments when I'm like, I think
you put your shoes on wrong.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Today, you know what I mean, She's sixteen, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I've been able to do the work and forgive
myself for being that, for being what I was. But
I definitely did a lot of work to change my
whole outlook on people and love. That's why I'm such
a hugger man. I was not a touchy guy, dude.
I was a fist bump, stay away from me, flat faced.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I was kind of a jail guy. And now I'm like,
I just I joke all the time.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Jah. I didn't cry until I was thirty three. Now
I can't quit.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I mean, it's like if I thought I'd caught up
by now, but I mean I still just just for
no reason, I'll just sob.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
I love that. What does it take what's blucking us
from forgiving ourselves?

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Mmmugh?

Speaker 1 (20:40):
I think accepting our responsibility in what we did. It's
really hard for me. That was the hardest part of
forgiving myself was just really when I quit running out
of it was this person's fault, It was that person's fault.
It took a long time for me to, as my
father would say to that peal of realizing that maybe
it was me. You know, it's the classic quote on
relations and chip number twenty seven. You look up and go, now,

(21:02):
there's no way I picked twenty seven crazy with you
know what I'm saying, like, at some point, maybe I
am the problem. And that's the first thing I did
to forgive myself was just almost like the basic principles
of AA. I just had to admit, like, you know
what this is, this is me. This is all a
reflection of the way I've carried myself. And yeah, things

(21:23):
happened to me in life that created this, And yeah,
there was a lot of I don't look at people
and go what's wrong with them?

Speaker 3 (21:28):
No more. I look at people and go what happened
to them? But I've that is no excuse not to
not to move on.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
And I was tired of forgiving everybody but me, and
I couldn't figure out what the problem was. I was like,
I forgave everybody. I don't have a bitter heart about nothing,
like you haven't forgave you, And man, I just.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
It hit me like a ton of bricks.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
You went to jail for an arm rubbery at fifteen.
Have you ever thought about, or maybe you have even
met them, but have you ever thought about what you'd
say to that person if you met me?

Speaker 3 (22:00):
I guess it's the.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Best question I've ever been asked. I've avoided this question
hoping because I don't know how to answer it. Jay,
I really want to have a conversation with them. I've
thought about reaching out. This has been twenty four years
ago now, and I just don't know how that would
even start, you know, how it would go about it?
Because sometimes I wonder if they might have even seen
me in passing and are aware of my success, and

(22:22):
I wonder if they've even correlated. I mean, I've obviously
dramatically changed. You know, I was fifteen, dude, you know
what I mean. I couldn't grow facial hair at all.
You know, I didn't I hardly hit puberty. I still
had my hay voice when I did that rivalry. So
I've thought about that a ton, and they're definitely on
my list, my men's list.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
I just haven't made it that far down yet.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
What do you think you would say?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
I would just ask them to understand. I would ask
them to just one forgive me, because there's no excuse
and that the first accountability is no matter how old
I was, I had no business taking from anybody. Just
this entitledment that I had the world owed me enough
that I could come take your stuff. Just what a horrible,
horrible way to look at life and people. It's what

(23:07):
a horrible way to interact with the earth, you know.
And I would apologize for that first, just flat just
one accountability is what I'm so big on now.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
Jays just looking at me, an I go, man uh.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
And then I would hope they would give me a
little grace as I explained to them that I was
fifteen and I was just trying to be. I don't
know what I was even trying to be. When I
look back now, I don't know what my thought.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
I don't have.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
This is how I know I was fifteen because there
When I try to make logic of it, I can't.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
There was no logic to what I did. It made
absolutely no sense.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
And I learned so much from it and the way
that I interact with people. And I hope that they
would see that I've made it my life's mission to
change and to change people, because that's what I'm representing
the most.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
In what I do.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
With my This whole thing for me is I think
people cheer for me Jay because they see a little
bit of me and them, or they see their cousin
or their I'm a family member, they relate, and I
speak for an unspoken group of people, you know, and
I hope they would know that. You know, money doesn't
create character, it reveals it. Right, if I was an asshole,

(24:11):
what a great time to start, you know what I mean,
What a great time to show the world.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
I think that I'm trying to diligently prove myself that
I'm I've not only changed that I took the platform
serious and it's making me change more every day, you know,
the responsibility that God's given me, and I would hope
they would forgive me.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
That's beautiful. Even sitting with you for a few moments
and the few interactions we have had, it's so evident
to me that you've done so much work, Like it's
so clear, it's so clear, and I think you remind
everyone of the potential we do want to see in humanity,
Like it's like that's what we want to see. Like

(24:46):
when we see someone struggling, we want to see them
figure out how's that transformation? And I think what you
were saying that when people see you, I think they're
reminded that, oh it's possible, Oh it's real, or it
can be genuine like it it's so genuine to your
care when you're talking about it to me, like I
feel the vibration of just you know, the growth and
transformation you chose. What I'm fascinated by is how did

(25:12):
it affect you at the time to make a mistake
in your early years? How long did that end up
putting you in jail for that time?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
That's the time I got charged an adult, So I
still have that felling on my record of this day
for that crime that was I did a few years.
I mean I came home right, I've made bond right
before I was seventeen, So I did two and a
half years, and then I ended up having to go
back and do another few years for the actual case
when it settled out.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
What does that experience do to a young person? Walk
us through that, because I feel like you're now looking
back at it when you're, you know, late thirties, But
when you're looking back at it, it's a different perspective
to like when you're actually fifteen in jail for two
and a half years, going back in and out cases.
What does that do to the mental health of a teenager.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Well, here's the perspective. Jay.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Imagine us as adults now to me and you go
have a conversation. I go, hey, man, let's go spend
three months in the mountains together, not use our phones.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Just fellowship.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
You look at a like, great idea, right, You're like,
it's just three months, it'll be fun. I mean, I
think this will be great. We'll bring our wives, we'll
invite other people. Let's actually make a thing of this
now because us, because we know in our age that
three months is but the hardest we're working three months.
But I might be need to break we need You know,
when you're fifteen years old, three months is your life.

(26:32):
It's an entire semester of school. You're now going to
be a second year freshman, or you're going to have
to make up these whole classes next summer because of
three months. You know. So imagine getting thrown into that
vortex for three years. I missed high school, I missed
any kind of normal socializing, any kind of what would
be growing up, what would be developing in those airs.

(26:54):
And I was developing in a room and I did
a crime that deserve this, by the way, But I
was developing in a room with stone, white walls, a conk,
a steal commode, and a steal bunk and a six
by eight sel six foot wide, eight inches long. By
the time I was an adult, I had to sleep
with my legs curled, couldn't stretch all the way out.
You know, I'll never forget being seventeen realizing I grew

(27:17):
enough that I couldn't fit in the bunk no more
length wise. So you go through these things as a juvenile.
And do you ever see Blow? You gotta watch the
movie Blow. It's incredible. It's a crazy movie. It's about
a guy named George Young Young that was a huge
Johnny Depp played a huge Shiny Death fan. But he

(27:38):
was a big weed dealer and he finally got some
federal time for moving, you know, hundreds of thousands of
pounds of weed. And the joke he says in the
movie is I went to prison with a bachelor's degree
in marijuana. I left with a PhD in cocaine because
he came home and ended up being the biggest cocaine
dealer in American history. So that's the true though. That's

(28:01):
how that impacts us, Jay when we're in these situations.
Our judicial system is set that when you put the
worst of the worst in a room together and give
them nothing to do but talk, argue and fight, you're
only making smarter criminals. They're only when there's no outlets.
Because there was very few outlets for us. Even as
a juvenile, we didn't have no outlets. I didn't get

(28:23):
my diploma, I didn't get my ged until I was
twenty five. In adult jail, we didn't have real classes.
We didn't have a real wreck yard, an exercise program,
a mentorship program. At the juvenile we didn't have anything.
I mean, they treated us like lifers, you know, orange jumpsuits.
And these were hainous crimes we were committing. And I
understand that I am huge on discipline, Like I'm one

(28:45):
of the few people that even in my justice reform
doesn't anywhere do I believe people shouldn't be incarcerated. I
think that I've learned some of the greatest things in
my life and that it's changed my life. But what
changed my life the most of those facilities. Was later
when I started getting resources in them, when they started
and education units where I could get my ged and
they had a Christian program that I could go to
call Jericho breaking the walls down, and these were the

(29:07):
things that I started learning, these fundamentals, and they had
AA in NA and I started being getting access to
different kind of books and literature and these things.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
But all through my juvenile years, Jay, none of that.
You're just sitting in there.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
You know there's kids that went to juvenile my age
and came home and couldn't never could read and write.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Well, yeah, no, I appreciate that perspective. And it comes
back to what you keep referring to is this principle
of accountability. And I think accountability gets a bit of
a hard rap right now, Like it's a difficult reputation
that accountability has because talk to me about the difference
between accountability and self sabotage or self blame. Right there's

(29:46):
a difference huge, and I can tell you know it
because from the way you're using the word. But I
think people get scared of accountability because they think, well,
if I think it's all my fault, right, then maybe
I shouldn't be here, or maybe I don't matter or
I'm not enough? How do you see the difference.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
There was a poem called the Guy in the Glass.
Have you ever read this poem? It's an incredible poem.
I used to have it memorized, but I read it
in jail and I hung it up on my jail mirror,
and until about two years ago, it was on the
mirror in my bedroom every day, my whole as long
as me and my wife have been together. It's something
I live by. The Guy the pretty much says that

(30:24):
you can be king for a day and get pats
on the back in life as you pass, but it's
only heartache and tears if you fool the Guy in
the Glass. That was the moment where now, if there's
a triggering thing that happens in my life, I used
to the old mentality was who did this? First thing
I do now is I go straight to the mirror
and go what could Jason have done differently? What could

(30:46):
I have really done differently to avoid this situation? Because
once I learned that there's accountability, this old head once
told me, if I'm running up a flight of steps
and I slip on a step and fall whose fault
is it is a mine of the steps or what's
it's mine? He goes, what if there's a cracking of steps?
I go, it's the steps? He goes, You think, and
I go, well, for sure, that's the variable. Right, there's

(31:07):
a cracking of steps, it's the steps fault.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
He said.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
The steps didn't have a choice to be there. You
had a choice to run up them. Man, those are
the moments where you're like, oh so, and then if
I can assess that I did everything right, that's how
I avoid self blame. Real self assessment, honest self assessment
to go because a lot of times we just don't
honestly assess ourselves. Something I learned through AA that I

(31:31):
love so much is going home and having these like
you assess your day, you write what did you do?

Speaker 3 (31:36):
What do they call it? Like a moral inventory?

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Right, and having these real moments, and then you get
freedom because sometimes you find out it ain't you and
then you're like, you know what, I actually did pretty
good by this. Then you can start handling your business
and then going down the line all right, well where
did this fall apart?

Speaker 3 (31:51):
You know what I mean? And then you can start
checking your boxes.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
But I've learned that even and then it'll always come
back to you, because even if it's somebody you hired
to do a job and they fail to do the job,
still hired that person to do the job, that was
still my own going and that just changed everything. I
had to do it that way, though, Jay, because I
was a chronic. I was the spider Man. Mean, you
know what I mean all the time, Dude, it was everybody.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
You know what I'm saying. I had Taim, but Tim
at Tim, it was never me. You know what I'm saying.
Turns out it was pretty much always me.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
But I love that you can laugh at that and
say that, right. I think that's the I think that's
the beauty of it when you start realizing that even
when you got it wrong, it wasn't this like deep
dark paint. And it was just like we're young, we're stupid,
we think about things. We were kind of we're kind
of trained to believe the problem is not us, and

(32:43):
when we do make it us, we don't need to
hold it as like this heavy dark weight. It's like,
oh wait, let me just relieve myself of this stupid
idea I have that it's not me and maybe if
it is me.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
I love that poem Guy Guy in the glass. Question
and opinion on that, how do you think that? How
do you encourage people to get over that? Because that's
a real thing you're saying is to be like when
you do assess it, you there is a heavy, heavy
feeling for me. I just started finding freedom in it

(33:16):
to be like like you said, it was more. I
started looking at less like damn, I'm enough to more like,
oh I can let that go. I blew that? What
did I?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I started taking this mentality of I don't lose.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
I learned, you know what I mean? Like like I said, yeah,
like we don't this team, we don't. We might screw
stuff up, but we don't. Just we learned something. It
was all valuable. Yeah, what do you think? What do
you think that process?

Speaker 2 (33:36):
There's two things that come to mind. One of them
is in the monk tradition, our highest self is called
the monk mind and our lower self is called the
monkey mind. And so whenever you're acting in that way,
it's compared to a monkey. So if you see a monkey,
and obviously you're not going to see a monkey in
most places, but at least in India. When you see
a monkey, monkeys are crazy. They're silly. They're jumping brands

(34:00):
to brands, they're swinging around, they make you funny sounds.
They're playful. They'll show you their teeth to scare you
a little bit. They'll steal your credit card and trade
it back for a banana. They're like, they're silly. And
the reason why the mind is compared to a monkey
is because it often acts like that. It's silly, it's unreasonable,
it's awkward, it does funny things. And so when you

(34:23):
look at the mind that way, you're like, oh, it's
just a monkey, Like it's okay, Like it doesn't have
to be this serious, heavy thing. You recognize that the
mind's nature, the mind's propensity, is to be that way.
And then you go, wait a minute, I wouldn't judge
a monkey if it did that. So let me not
judge myself. Let me free myself of that guilt and shame.

(34:44):
And I think the bigger thing there is Guilt blocks growth.
Guilt doesn't make you want to grow. It might make
you start to grow, but it won't help you grow
long term if you keep guilting yourself. Shame is not
going to help you shift. If you keep shaming yourself,
you're so only gonna shift. It may shift you a
tiny degree, but it's not going to cause a transformation.

(35:05):
And so guilt, shame, and judgment don't help you grow,
shift and transform. And I think so many of us
have to realize that it's just not a useful emotion sustainably.
It can be useful in the interiom to like get
you off your backside and get you going, but it's
not a where I see you today. It's not like

(35:26):
love and grace and compassion, like these things are sustainable.
These things are infinite, whereas shame, guilt, and judgment are
finite reasons for motivation, they run out. I don't know
if that makes sense. Yeah, So that's how I see it. Yeah,
that's how I see it. And that's big to touch on,
especially with shame. That shame spiral for me has been

(35:50):
my biggest demonally. I mean, it's the monster in front
of me all the time.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
It's the monster that I battle the most with my obesity,
which to me is one of the things that I'm
working on, but it's clearly where I have the most
work to do. My nan would always say, you can't
quit everything at once. I was with my dad one time.
My nan was at a nursing home and she was
she was so funny, man, and uh, we came in.
First thing my dad tells her is Jason quit smoking cigarettes.

(36:17):
Old baby Jason quit smoking cigarette. She said good, I said, Grandma,
I ain't gonna lie.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Man.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
It was hard as hell. And uh, buddy goes. My
dad goes, hey, you could tell he didn't quit cussing.
She looks up and goes, wait, can't quit everything at once?

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Can? I like that?

Speaker 1 (36:33):
So my uh, I'm finding that getting out of that
shame as I'm focusing on emotional sobriety. So I'm really
focusing on that, you know what I mean. And it
was just in the last few years I got I
did enough work to even learn what emotions were when
I seen any emotion chart for the first time, because
you ever heard, you know, people to ask you how
do you feel? And I just like it was always
one of two things. It was always just angry, you

(36:55):
know what I'm saying. For so many years, every emotion
that came to me was anger. But I didn't I
didn't know that it wasn't really anger. It was uh uh.
Sometimes I was disappointed. Sometimes I was sad, you know.
Sometimes I was guilt. I felt guilt. Sometimes I was
in a shame spiral. But I didn't know that. So
to me, it was like they were like, well, well,
you know what, tell me how you feel right now.

(37:16):
But it was just always angry, you know. And then
I worked my way through that too, learning more about
the emotions and trying to anchor down and being honest
about how I feel. Now where I still struggle, jay Is,
I still struggle when I get stuck ruminating, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
I still.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
My time of clearing my head and getting a logical
thought sometimes takes still takes a little longer than I
wanted to, because I can accually get stuck Miles. You see, Miles,
my buddy from on site. He always calls it. I
don't know if I remember.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
He calls it.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Rumination laying a rumination row. But I'll just end instead
of making a decision. You know, it's freedom or grace
here and you can ruminate here. And I'm still the
guy that'll just pace here for three or four days
just making myself madder about something.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
We let it go one of the things you're reminding
me of is this idea that like one of the
most addictive things in the world is actually shame. Shame
is such an addiction. We get addicted to it and
it just becomes our rhetoric, our habit, our go to place.
It's a go to comfort and it's a go to pain,

(38:21):
and we know it's both, but we kind of hold
on to it like an addiction and we get caught
in that spiral. I think that's real, but it sounds
like you're taking a lot of steps in your health journey.
You were just saying to me drinking like two gallons
of water a day.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Like you know what's crazy too. I'm just having a
fan moment right now where you just looked at me
and said the kind of shit I watch you say
on this podcast.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
That inspires me. But it was to me, you know
what I'm saying, that was so cool? Thank you.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
I was just sitting here like a little giddy kid,
like I see this all the time. This is cool
that I'm on the other side of this now.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Anytime.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Thank you, brother. I think the wait for me right now.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
It's the mountain in front of me and I'm taking
I'm learning, you know, I'm being very diligent with it,
and I'm taking it serious. I'm drinking a bunch of water,
I'm cold plunging, I'm eating right, I'm doing good. I
just I just have to fight that little that little
pirate on my shoulder, that's you know them late nights
and just I'm a food addict, man. I've always I
probably never said it this honestly, but this is the

(39:19):
podcast to be that real about it. Is that I
have just had a bad relationship with food from birth.
I've never had a good relationship with food. I've never
had a good example around me of it, you know
what I mean? And uh, I've always said that I
believe obesity is directly connected to mental health. I know
how easy it is for people to go just quit
eating so much, just work out. It's so easy, you

(39:40):
know what I was like, I just I don't I
wish I looked at food that way. But I understand
it from the perspective of an attic, because I know
what addiction is.

Speaker 3 (39:48):

Speaker 1 (39:49):
And how I struggle with food is the same way
I struggle with codeine. It's the same way I struggle
with cocaine, like couldn't you know, even getting.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
It away from me.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
It took years to be able to be around people
doing cocaine and just not be doing it, you know,
just to know what's happening in my environment and be
okay with that. So I'm having to take that same
approach with food, to be honest, and I'm not ashamed
to say it that I'm having to make those dramatics
of decisions where I'm like, I don't need nothing to
eat in my gream room, you know what I mean.

(40:21):
I need to change my entire relationship with how I
look at food. But a lot of that changed with
me how I looked at myself, you know what I mean.
A lot of that started changing with me loving me
and really starting to love me because I went through
this thing forever where I did all this work and
started loving people and hugging people, and I still laid
down and hated me, you know, And I deal with

(40:43):
days of this.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
I still deal days. It's real.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
I'm honest enough to be on your podcast today to
tell you that I still get stuck here sometimes and
it's scary, man, it's really scary.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Scared of myself.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
But I've got a good support system around me, and
I will say that all that cliche stuff is real.
When they're like, go walk out in the sun, drink water.
You remember you hear it as a fat person. I'm
like you, it's not that easy.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
It's just hard.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
And then I started walking around in the sun and
drinking water. I'm like, dude, I feel somewhat you know
what I mean, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I feel like it sounds like though that because you've
been through other addiction Jenny's there's a part of you
that is inspired and knows you can do it. Yes, right,
it feels like you've been You've been able to break
so many habits and so many addictions at this point
that it feels like you have an inn belief that

(41:34):
you can. Would you agree with it?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
I believe it in my spirit, in my soul, I
believe it. And I also believe it's because God's purpose
for me is so much bigger than even what I'm
doing now. And I almost feel like I heard the spirit,
my spirit tell me that you're holding you back from
what's really for you. You know, your physical is what's
holding you back for what we have for you. And
I want to shed that skin. I want to shed

(41:58):
it bad, but I also want to do it to
us by our kids the same way I've inspired. I
never thought I would be able to talk to you
in real life. I never got into this thinking I
would be a mental health advocate or that I would
be you know, this wasn't I just wrote songs about
how I felt and how people around me felt and
the brokenness that was in my life. And man, it's

(42:19):
helped so many people. The messages you get. You know,
I think we could connect on that, the messages because
I've sent you messages of how I feel of things
that we actually are helping people. This is called on purpose.
Purpose is what changed my life. Shil Lah buff did
an interview one time where he said, I quit trying
to be happy. I started being useful. I started trying

(42:41):
to be useful, and I've lived by that quote ever since.
It's like, once I started prioritizing my purpose, it's funny
how much life's just awesome, you know what I mean.
When I was trying to make life awesome, it sucked
when I when I started just trying to be a
man of purpose and just try to walk in my
purpose and what I think God put me here for.
It just opened up every thing for me. It's been
such a dynamic shift.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, you said, I want to read this from you
because it's from your own post, but this was to
your wife. You said, happy anniversary. This is my best friend. Literally.
People ask me what was the turning point in my career,
and the answer is simple. I married my best friend period.
This woman changed my life. Four years ago. On a

(43:23):
drunken night in Las Vegas. My wife and I made
a decision that night during a deaftone show. I walked
on stage during Yellowolf's performance, Thank you for this brother.
I'll always be grateful for that moment. We rushed the
courthouse and got married at some random chapel. I was
a lost cause. I was in the middle of custody battle.
I was broke, living out of a van, doing two
hundred shows a year for two hundred dollars a show.

(43:46):
I was addicted, bruised, used, and barely breathing. She came
in and changed everything. She made me whole, She gave
me purpose. It was truly the turning point in my
career in life. I mean when I read that, I
was like, you know, you can't read that not feel
moved by that? How was how would the people we

(44:08):
choose to spend our life with A, Y are they
so important?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
And B?

Speaker 2 (44:13):
How did she help you find your purpose? Like that would? Especially?

Speaker 1 (44:17):
First of all, it felt like somebody actually believed in me,
and I hadn't felt that in a while. My father
believed me, my mother, you know, but like outside of
my little crew, she just prophesied over me from I'll
never forget the first time we hung out, she whispered
in my ear. She said, I don't know what it is,
but your special. She's like your special. And I felt

(44:39):
the same way about her. We just celebrated our eighth
anniversary last week. Thank you, man, I'm talking to you
about I've done so many interviews.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
I never talked about this.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
I was so insecure in my body for so many
years that I found validation through women, and I thought
that if I could pull pretty women.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
That it would then I wasn't that, you know what
I mean, And it was just something else, you know.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
And because of that, I had a really really bad
relationship with women, multiple women all the time, many partners
as I could get, living double, triple, quadruple lies, relationships
with all these people. The first thing that happened was
when I got with Bunny. It was something that just
happened where I was immediately, I didn't want to talk
to nobody.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
I just wanted to be with her.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
And somebody used to always tell me that anybody who's
ever built an empire, it was a modern era. It
was always a one woman man. You know what I mean,
because when you focus on one woman, and one woman
focuses on you, and y'all focus on building together.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
I've seen it with you and your wife. It's amazing
what happens.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
So it's crazy, Jay, just what happened the day. I
just was like, this is all that matters, is just
me and you and building this thing together.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
And she came straight in.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
And now keep in mind, I'm fixing to get custody
of a kid that I don't even have a place
for them to live. I don't know what I'm doing
with my life. If Bunny comes right in and goes, look,
I don't know if we're gonna work or not, but
I'll help you get custody of your daughter. Let's go
get an apartment for you. I go stand in court
beside you as a you know, as a person of
this like she put together this thing for me to
get cussed. And we call her our daughter now because

(46:15):
she raises her as her own, and she calls Bunny mama.
We've had that little girl for eight years now, and
she gave me purpose because I felt like our story
was one that could help so many people. The two
broken people that were able to kind of heal and
then come together, not as healed as we probably should
have been, even but then we were able to heal
together and grow together and learn together. And just knowing

(46:39):
I have somebody that really supports me, really encourages me,
and holds me accountable too.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Bunny, will you know, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Your wife's the same way. When them doors closed, man,
Bunny will get in my ass. Bunny will tell me
what's really going on. She will check me if I
start egoing out a little bitter getting a little son.
Bunny will be the first person go, man, I don't
know what's up with you. Man, You know what I'm saying.
She was the first woman. And I know people are
going to say this ain't right, but she was the
first woman. I had a healthy amount of fear of
I've never been afraid of losing something before ever.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Never.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
I was always lived by the motto of heat. If
you can get rid of you can't get rid of
it in thirty seconds. That don't need to be in
your life, you know. And she was the first one
where I was like, I don't want to lose this.
I don't want to blow this. I'm willing to do
the work for this. I'm willing to get in there
talking about doing work. This will be a cool podcast.
Share this story me and my wife. I was learning

(47:29):
about how trauma affects us as our children, our children
years and about my wife was in a place where
when she was growing up, she had a very abusive
stepmother and her father that was detached and she was
grounded to her room a lot, so her room became
her safe place. When I was growing up, I had
a mother that never left her room. So for me,
the room is a dark place.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Right. It reminds me of a story about you and
your wife. The dishes. Yeah, for the dishes story, you
sit down, you do them after y'all watch TV.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
She does them before, yes, yes, yeah, So it's like
this is a similar thing, but you know, so imagine
when she would shell up and life would be hard
on her, she would back into the bedroom.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
What is that trigger for me? Jay, it's my mother.
I got to go entertain my mom. What's wrong? Go
to the room. Try. I'm trying trying to hoist her out,
but she's I think she needs to come out here
to be better. But this is better for her.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
And you could imagine this is rubbing rocks together. We're
starting fires all the time. And then as soon as
we really did the work and I found out that
about her, Man, we do we argue, but we have
a typical relationship argument once a year and it's almost.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Always over the kid. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
But it's like, once I learned that, now it's like
when she goes to a room, I'll walk in, Hey baby,
are you okay?

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Cool? Do you want to talk about something? I want
to talk cool? I love you. I'm downstairs. Call me
if you need me, Because I know that's how she processes.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
I don't take it personal no more, you know, But
those are the things and I learned. So she's taught
me so many things like that. Her patience with me,
Jay Man I don't deserve that. I didn't earn that patience.
That's just grace. She just gave that to me because
she loves me, very very dial and she lets me
be the wild horse. I still am as something else.
Every other woman still tried to tame this old wild mustang.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
I got to run, you know. Know what I'm saying.
I'm programmed to go Jay two or three hundred days
a year, I'm out of the house.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
It's just how I offer rate, you know. And she's
the opposite. She's a homebody, prefers to be home. But uh,
she cheers for me.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
Man.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
So that's my best friend. Dude.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
I love that, and it reminds me. It definitely reminds
me of me and my wife in so many ways
as well. Like I talk about that example in my
in my second book gave Rules of Love. I talked
about how just like there's love languages, there's fight styles.
And so my fight style is venting. I want to
talk about it. I want to fix it. I want
to get to a solution by talking about.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
It, right.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And my wife's fight style is hiding. She wants to
go into a room right, like she don't want to
talk about it. Yeah, And in the beginning of our marriage,
I used to think she doesn't care about it as
much as I do because I want to talk about it.
That's because I care. But what I didn't realize is
her having that space that was her caring so that
she could come back with a solution, so that she
could come back with the energy and the capacity for

(50:16):
going to some resolution. Whereas to me it was like, Oh,
you don't care as much as I do. I'm standing
right here ready to fix this and solve this, and
you just want to run away. What does it take
to have the humility to have your partner help you heal?
Because I think it requires humility on both parts to

(50:36):
a allow someone to heal you and be healed someone
else without judging them and like you said, giving grace
and space, Like, how do you strike that balance, especially
as a man, of putting your ego aside and allowing
someone to come in with the medicine.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
I had to quit looking at the word help as
an ego death and start looking at it as I
had to start looking at it as an empowerment.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Almost.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
That's so good, you know, to just be like, hey,
can I get some help? There's a book that I
read when I was an on site doing some therapy work.
I'll always butcher the name, and they should have changed
the name because of this, by the way. But it's
like you probably read. It's a children's book, but it's
all drawn. It's like the horse, the mule, the donkey,
and the fox, right, and it's this version of winning

(51:27):
the pood. They could have done way better. They picked
weird animals. That person should call me. I'll help them
with the next book. But they had some really good
stuff in it. But it goes to the horse and
it goes what's the hardest thing you've ever had to do?
When the horse goes ask for help?

Speaker 3 (51:40):
I cried. I've seen that illustration the first time, sitting
in that cabin.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Of course, I was in a highly emotional place doing
some intensive therapy, but I just bawled because I was like, man,
that's a core thing with me and my wife. We
got to look at the word help is we're trying
to make the word help sexy. Now you know what
I mean, like instead of like this, oh help, because
that's how we're growing up, like you don't ask for help.
I'm trying to look at it like all that sexy.
She asked me to help her with something, you know what,

(52:06):
like he yo, can can I run something by you?

Speaker 3 (52:08):
That's like, man, I get goosebumps and she can so
she hit if I hit her with that or she
hits me. It's like, oh, this is this is the good.
This is we're growing. This is where we grow, baby,
you know what I mean. We call it the foxhole.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's the biggest thing is that we started making it fun,
like let's getting a foxhole. Lets huddle up, let's talk
about this, you know, like making real decisions. It's kind
of where we started thriving. So it went from being
afraid to ask for help to like now it's like
our thriving point, like when we can really get in
that foxhole and start trying to sharpen each other's skills.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
It's really cool.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, that that putting your ego side's huge. I wrote
another chapter those called your partner is your Guru, and
it was that idea that your partner is your teacher,
but your partner never makes you feel like they're your teacher,
and you never feel like you're the student. Right, Like,
there's learning, there's growth without the other person kind of

(52:58):
pointing a finger at you, making you like pointing out
your mistakes in a negative way, Like my wife will
call me up and call me out like you're saying.
But I know it's full of love, full of love,
like I know it's to make me better. I know
it's because she actually cares about me, not the perception
of me, and she doesn't want me to get carried away.
But you have to trust that, because as a man,

(53:20):
it's so easy to have your ego rise above that
and go, who are you to tell me? Or you
know where's that coming from? Or you don't even see it,
you don't know it. And so I love hearing how
much you've been able to put that ego aside and
truly allow it in. I think that's really inspiring.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Oh yeah, well, the first step for me was just
admitting I had an ego. Now hard that was.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
It was like I used to I was like I
thought I was the only dude on earth that didn't
have an ego. I'm telling you, I'm the most egoist
dude ever. And I had such an ego, you know,
And I still have to have to fight that guy
a lot. I always joke with my management, but it's true,
is that I need an hour when I wake up
before I deal with people.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
I need to.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I got to kill the bad half of me. Me
and that guy go to war as soon as I
wake up, because he's there, he's waiting for me. He's
by the night's then you know what I mean, Be mad,
Be mad because I used to just wake up angry.
Just woke up mad, and uh, I fight that guy
for an hour every morning we wrestle. You know, I
feel like Jacob. I break a hip every day wrestling. God,
you know what I'm saying. But it makes me and
you'll notice it because I'm a lesser, better version of me.

(54:23):
If I don't get that album, I come out and
you can kind of steal sens it on me. But
that's all about that ego death man. But I started
I just replaced ego with love and compassionate, started going
what would love say? Because it's so funny how fast
you separate what's love and what's not when you really
think about it, when you go, if you really just
bring everything back to like did I say that really

(54:45):
out of love or was it a loving way?

Speaker 3 (54:46):
I said it? Most of the time and say I
bleew that one. You know what I mean, I couldn't
reframe that for sure.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
It's uh, hearing about your purpose through your wife as
well as I mean, I'm just gonna read a few
things that are happening right now, because there's SOUTI Save
Me is one of the most played songs at recovery centers.
I mean, how does that feel me? Before I go on?
How does that feel?

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Unbelievable? Man, It's.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
One of the coolest experiences of my life is being
able to especially catch people in that.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
First thirty days, of those first ten or fifteen days.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Anytime we get to go back to a detox center
and love on people and play songs for them.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
We go to prisons all the time and play, and
we go to homeless shelters.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
But you catch somebody on them first ten days, man,
because I know what them ten days are, you know,
And to know that that's the song getting people through
that particular stretch, I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
You know.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
It's like when they told me that save Me's becoming
the new free bird in the South for funeral homes,
cause you know, free bird roll Leonard Skinnert's song has
been like the famous funeral home in the South, and
they said they get more requests for save Me Now.
And that used to really bum me out and make
me sad because I used to carry that. But then
I started thinking about how much that's helping people grieve,
because how many songs have really helped me grieve? You
know what I mean, Toby Keys, I'm gonna miss that smile.

(56:02):
I'm gonna miss you, my friend. I mean, it got
me through the death of my father. I listen to
that song every day, so I know how music can
do that. Even though I'm leaving by Luke Combs, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I think it's beautiful to hear that, to feel that
your music's there. And then this one too, when you
performed for the Oregon prison mates, the inmates, it's the
first time the prison has allowed live music in twenty years.
I mean, how does that feels?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Cool?

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Stevie ray Vaughan, So even cooler shoes to follow for
them to trust us enough to bring our message to
a yard. That prison has the most lifers in Oregon, Orgon.
There's twelve prisons in Orgon. It has the most lifers.
I probably met thirty or forty men that day that
were doing life. It was such a different perspective, Jay,
because you're not normally when you go into a jail,

(56:48):
you're kind of trying to show the change is possible
and that you know recidivism is you know, you can
bring down recidivism and go home and actually do something
productive with your life. It's a whole different thing when
you're looking at guys that aren't going home, you know,
which made it even more special because then you're just
spreading one thing.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Hope, just a little smile, baby, a little love. I
just want to be.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
All I'm looking for today is a smile because I
know this is a place that a lot of not
a lot of that happens, you know. I just want
these guys rocking. And it was chicken soup for the soult. Jay,
you should come with me one day.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
I would, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
I was just speaking to the gentleman outside for his
name Miles, Yes, and I was telling him when I
was reading about researching the work you're doing, I would
love to be alongside you in any way I can.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
I think we'll reach out. We're setting up something big
with a big prison. We'll talk about loft camera, but
we can use all this, but I'll tell you the
exact when you'll be like, oh, but we do it.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
I'd love to have you.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
I'd love to suppoint anyway. I think the work you're
doing is spectacular. When I was researching for this interview
and reading about all the stuff you do, I was like,
I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is this
is exactly it. I mean, this is what's needed. This
is the most important work you could do right now.
So any way I can be helpful, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
I'm on in and you just let me know. I
will call.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Oh, it's I'm putting putting feet on faith, baby, That's
what we say. Yeah, you know, is you gotta It's
It's one thing to sit in these interviews and talk
all that shit, but it's another one. You got to
get them go do it, you know. And I got
and I'm as a musician, I make it a point
to to go do it. It's also so much easier
what we do than what most people do, because you know,
it's music, right, it just works anywhere all the time,

(58:21):
you know what I mean. It's just super It's like
I love sometimes we'll go to these places we won't
talk at all.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
We'll just go in and sing three or four songs,
just like a regular show. You know, we don't.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
It's just being present, man, It just seeing inspiration and
spiring these guys. It's such a dark place. Those places
are people are getting sexually assaulted every day in there,
you know what I mean. It's people do not truly
understand how dark prison is.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
It is a point.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
It is the scariest thing I've ever lived through any
kind of any kind of incarceration. So you see them
dudes out there smiling and nodding their head for a
day and dancing. Dude, man, I'll make you cry like
a baby.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Oh man, Are there any memorable intractions you've had any
with any inmates that kind of stick out to you,
or any conversations that you have had that tons.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
But I'll start with the Oregon State Penitentiary, Jay Man.
So there was some guys that were work in the prison.
So they're the ones who set up the equipment that day. Uh,
you know, they're they're they're the trustees, is what they are.
They're the people that they trust in this prison. So
I first moment talking about ego death, I'm singing and
I come off stage, I go, hey, I'd love to

(59:29):
meet as many of y'all as I can before I leave.
So I go kind of stand over here, and everybody
on that yard formed a line to get an autograph
from me. And I was like, what an ego death
for these guys, Like these are tough dudes, these are
you know, these are murderers, you know what I'm saying,
that are standing in line to get one for their
daughter or their wife. So you see the humanity in them,

(59:49):
you know what I mean, And the and the and
the gratefulness because they've been incarcerated so long that getting
an extra snack at dinner is.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
A big deal. Where to thank you, thank you, thank you.
So it was.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
But then after I meet, I meet three hundred in mate,
sign autographs, hug everybody that touched, everybody, just it was emotionally.
I come back and there's these twenty trustees Jay and
they go, can we grab some pics? I was like,
of course, I'm taking pics with all of them. And
the guy taking the picture has been in there for
thirty nine years. He spent thirty something years on death

(01:00:21):
row before they got rid of the death penalty in Oregon.
Completely in solitaire and now he's the camera guy for
the prison. He's still incarcerated, but we're all taking these
pictures and at the end of it, they go, hey,
can we take one with just the lifers And I'm like, yeah, Now,
these are the trustees. These are the best inmates in
this prison. And when they said the lifers, I thought
maybe it was two or three of them. I've been
talking to these guys. Every one of them were the smartest,

(01:00:42):
most talented, they were just awesome guys. Twelve of the
twenty were doing life Jay and I was so emotional
in that moment dog because they were so full of life,
they were so grateful. I was there and these dudes
will never see the streets again, and uh, we're taking
a picture and I'm starting to cry, like I am

(01:01:04):
now and I'm like, God, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Just because they were just I was hopeful that I
was hopeful that some of these guys are going on
because they're telling me their dreams, their wives, their kids,

(01:01:26):
you know, showing me pictures and I'm excited. I'm thinking,
all these are the trustees. At least some of these
guys got a chance, and it was just sad man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
But the good thing about humor is while we're taking
the pictures, I go, damn, it's twelve of y'all. He
said yeah. I said, well, hell, it would have been easier.
Just tell the eighth wn't doing life. Get out of
the picture.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
And one good thing about prison is every one of
them cried. Every one of them cried laughing. I said, uh,
and I was right before I turned around left, I said,
I'm gonna come back and do this again next year,
and they said, we're not going anywhere. I was like,
thank you all for making me laugh. But it was
just such a moment because I had never even fully
experienced that yet. I've been to a lot of prisons

(01:02:07):
and a lot of jails, but I had never got
to do the yard or do three four hundred inmates,
and I'd never got to really go into death row
or going to see this many people doing. It's such
a different perspective. You go to jail, I'm spreading hope, like, hey,
you're coming home, you could change. There's dudes that are
never coming home, you know, never coming home, And uh, man,
that just really really really for me a little bit,

(01:02:28):
absolutely sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I got no man. I think you you invited us
into a world that we wouldn't have a understanding of,
right Like, that isn't a daily experience. We're not We're
not getting to interact with what that feels like. And
we can have all of views and assumptions or whatever
it may be. But I think through you, we're getting

(01:02:51):
to have a human experience of what that looks like.
I wanted everyone to know this. If you haven't heard
Jelly Row's congressional speech, I highly commend it to everyone.
I thought that was one of the most powerful things
that I've seen you do. Every every line was just
so that's the way word I'm looking for. It was

(01:03:14):
just so clear, it was so powerful, it was so
it just grabbed my attention immediately. You said there was
one thing that just stood out to me. I had
to write it down. You said that there's one hundred
and ninety people every day that die in the USA,
and you said that that was based on well, I'll

(01:03:35):
let you explain it. Actually you explained the point because
you went on to compare it to a seven three
seven plane. And when I heard that, I was like,
I'm going to let you explain because it's so powerful.
But I want everyone to go listen to that speech.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Please.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
The idea that I said was, could you imagine if
there was a plane crashing every single day in the
United States of America with two hundred passengers on it?
How many days would that happen before as Americans we
completely lost it, canceled every flight, looked under every engine
of every plane again, whatever I mean, we would you know.

(01:04:09):
I also use the comparison sometimes that if there was
eleven squirrels a day dying in Central Park unexplained, I
bet that don't go four days before the EPA comes
out there, shut Central Park down and it's a national crisis.
I bet fifty squirrels die before it is like, hold on,
we've got to figure this out. But one hundred and
ninety humans jay every single day or dying because of drugs,

(01:04:34):
drug addiction and fentanyl, and the way we have looked
at them previously as society is well, that's their fault,
that's their choice. They chose to be drug addicts. They
should make their bed and lay in it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
One.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
That's just such a not compassionate way to look at
life and humans. It's just such a way to dehumanize people.
And I think part of us dehumanizing people is why
America's got put into all these separate boxes and so
again each other. I say this and I mean it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
I went and spoke to Congress because I had a
moment where I was like, maybe I should bring these
statistics here, because there's no way our federal government could
know this is happening and not be doing nothing about it. Right,
I would like to believe in the betterment of the
world that they just don't know. Let me be the
guy that goes and tells them, like, hey, maybe y'all
are missing what's really happening out here. Y'all are so

(01:05:24):
busy arguing with each other about stuff that people have
been disagreeing about for.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
One hundred years.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Anyways, what I know is, and I said this in
a speech, and I really really do hope y'all go
check it out. This is somebody's cousin.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Jay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Have you ever known somebody that's been addicted to drugs,
like real, like a heroin addiction, like a full blown
like somebody close to you by chance.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yeah, close to a friend, dewn.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
If you've never experienced that. For the people watching, it
might not have. It's like seeing somebody you've known your
whole life become a zombie. It's like watching somebody you've
known your whole life become a completely different human. They
talk different, act different. It's irrational. It makes no sense
at all. You have no clue what drugs do to

(01:06:07):
people if you've never really experienced that, And those are
mostly the people who are quick to go, oh, they
should just shouldn't do them in the first place. It's like, man,
you don't know what it was like when that young
lady broke her back in that car accident and they
started feeding her these extremely addictive pain pills to help
with the pain that she couldn't shake herself out of.
And then eventually you're doing thirty twenty Lord tabs a day.

(01:06:28):
It's cheaper to go get a gramar heroin. You know
this issue. These are humans. It's kind of like I
try to talk about the inmates, man, kids. They've done
horrible things, but they're humans, and I want to humanize.
What I wanted to do in that speech, cha was
I wanted to humanize drug acts. I wanted people to
remember that, and that's why I said to that panel,
I said it's some of y'all right now sitting up

(01:06:49):
here in this Senate that have family members that you're
thinking of right this moment that are addicted to drugs.
And you know what I'm telling the truth. Does that
person have to die before you walk up here and
make a difference. That's all I want, man, And just
back to practice and what we preach. It's sad that

(01:07:10):
we didn't learn nothing from They said, history is bound
to repeat itself if we don't learn nothing from it.
And I don't think anything could be more true if
you watch what was the cocaine epidemic, into the crack epidemic,
into the pill mill epidemic, into what was the heroin
epidemic that's now into the fen and al epidemic, and
it has done nothing. But it's a snowball that's just

(01:07:32):
getting bigger and bigger and less addressed. We got to
do something about it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
How did they receive it? What was the What did
you feel was their response?

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
I felt genuine love in that room. I felt like
they were very receptive. I think the bill, the bill
got passed into law, which was a big which was
a huge, huge deal because that bill had got put
up three or four times before it never got passed,
so it's huge. But what it did the most was
I'm walking the Grammy red carpet and I will never

(01:08:04):
say the names, but when I tell you a list celebrities,
we'll talk about loft camera friends of ours, friends of mine,
now I've probably been friends of yours are dragging me
to the side, going hey, I just want to tell you,
I've never heard a song of yours. But I watched
the five minutes and thirty seven seconds that you gave
that speech to Congress, and I cried because my son

(01:08:25):
is seven years sober. And right then I was like,
this is what God's purpose was for me, was for
these kind of conversations to not be taboo, no more
to be These aren't conversations that are being had on
Grammy red carpets, these aren't conversations being had at Clive
Davis's party. And I'm creating this kind of vulnerability with

(01:08:46):
people that they that they'll walk up to me, and
it won't even just celebrities, people that work there security.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Guys, Hey man, what you did? Ist sen it man?
Thank you. I got a nephew, I got a niece.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
It showed me how it started putting faces to the
hundred and ninety people a day, And once we started
putting faces to them, I think things will change. It's
my hope at least, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yeah, No, I think that's what Whether it's you're telling
us the stories of the inmates or the congressional speech,
I love that you said it in your own words,
that it's really humanizing these stories and these experiences of
people that are happening all around us, and we either
choose not to believe they exist, or we live in
a blissful ignorance, or you know, hide away from it

(01:09:27):
all or put it away into this area of society.
And I think it it's it's harsh, but it's like
until we have to deal with it face to face,
we don't really deal with it. And so being aware
of it, hearing about it in all of these spaces,
opening up conversations. You're right, I mean, I hear it,
I hear about I'm sure from this interview I'm going
to get so many calls and messages saying, oh my god,

(01:09:48):
I saw the clip of you and Jelly Roll and
jelly Roll speaking about that made you know that's going
to happen, right, And I think that's the beginning of
the opposite snowball effect, the one you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
People haven't really conversations about it, and maybe that'll start helping.
I mean, dude, getting into a rehabilitation center in America
is so hard getting into a real rehab The ones
that are state funded or federally funded are backed up
for years. You can't afford the other ones, you know.
I mean, it's a it's a big problem to fix,
but it's one that it's one of the ones I'm
gonna advocate for. I'm definitely gonna spend my time in

(01:10:21):
life pushing towards that because I know what drug addiction
did to my family. Do you all I hear all
this in the speech. You know my daughter's a victim
of drug addiction. I used to think drugs was a
selfless crime, right. I used to think they were that.
It was like nobody got harmed kind of crime. It
was like, this was a fair exchange. You need drugs,

(01:10:43):
I have drugs.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
You have money. Here's the drugs for your money. It's
just like it was.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
I used to justify it, like it's no different than
KFC selling that chicken. It's killing people.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
You know it was that was.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Now you get insight into how I used to think.
We were talking about it earlier. And then when I
came home from jail, my daughter was born and her
mother was addicted to heroin and was completely out of
her life. Now I every day look in the eyes
of a victim of what drug dealing is and what
drugs are. And I was a guy that sold drugs.
I went to jail for selling drugs. I got caught

(01:11:14):
with the same pain pills that lead to people doing heroin.
I got caught with cocaine, I got caught with crack,
I got caught with these these I was selling these
same drugs. That's why I'm so passionate about it, Jay,
That's why I tear up when we talk about drug
addicts or prisoner inmates, because I remember genuinely being.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
The other side of that problem, the same guy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
So this has been so good for me, the same
guy we talked about it forty minutes ago, where I was,
like I do, did not think logical at all, you know,
thought it was I was better than KFC. I had
more integrity than KFC. They're killing people and not talking
about it. That was how lack of accountability I had
in life, even when I'm selling heroin, and I justified

(01:11:56):
it by well, so it was KFC.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
You know, it's like, come on now, big fella.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Well I hope there's a kind of believe that too.
And I'm like, yeah, I think I think that does
need to change. Yeah, sure, there's there's stuff that happened.
There was this picture that I saw you spoke about
you do it just for a second, this picture that
I loved. It brought so much joy to my heart.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
This one, Oh yeah, that's my muchkin.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Dude. You brought so much joy to my heart when
I saw that. What's it been like to perform together? Man?

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Because it's been so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
Just to share anything in life together, but then to
share what we both love. And I was the first
and I don't I don't know. I think if I
remember right, you were the first person in your family
to kind of go into the space you're in. Yes,
nobody we know. I don't come from a family of musicians.
I come from a family of the opposite. I don't
nobody in my family can carry a tune of the bucket.
We all nobody has music there. We sound like drunk

(01:12:54):
alley cats together.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
It is nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
So when my daughter started getting interested in the guitar
and the piano, it was like I didn't I tried
not to show her, but everything in me was just glowing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Same way.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
I have a niece that plays the guitar and I
just was so excited when she picked it up. I
was like, I think I might have been the inspiration
that'll change his family and that in three generations will
be a music family.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Yea.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Three generations from now, those kids will be born probably
wanting to play instruments because everybody in the family did something,
you know, and they'll link back one day and go,
we always been a music family, and that somebody gets
to go, No, actually, you had a great great grandfather
that wrote a bunch of country songs.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
It was famous.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
That's beautiful. That's beautiful, man. It's like you're getting to
rewrite your family's history.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Yes, sir, breaking generational curses. Bunny and I were.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
That was our mission too, man, taking an next drug dealer,
convict and an ex prostitute and showing people that you
can really come from the sketchiest of past and completely
change everything about it. Change everything about the way you
look at life, how you interact with people. It's never
too late to forgive, it's never too late to love.
It's never too late in life. Anyways, Jay, I'm probably forty.

(01:14:05):
I didn't this shit didn't start working for you. I
was thirty seven, you know what I mean. You know
how long I was throwing darts in the dark. It's
there had to have been groups of people around me
that loved me that just now. I'm glad they didn't.
They were just scared to come go. Hey, Bubba, maybe
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
I don't know. December fourth, Yeah, I'll be forty December
of the fourth, Ba. I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Yeah, that speech you gave it the CMA's last year.
I mean that, just like you you like took us
to chest. That's what it felt like. When I saw that.
I was like, I felt like I was at check.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
Hey you, it's like a jelly roll show. I got
to get you out to one there. I used to
I have a natural Uh. I grew up in a
Southern Baptist church, so I have a natural thing that
happens whenever I speak. But one day I came off
stage and somebody said that was church tonight, that was church.
This was a two hundred person bar and my wife goes,
that was church. And I looked at her, and I

(01:14:57):
was such a Southern Baptist. Still, I was like, I
hadn't really forged my own true relationship with my higher
power like I have at this time.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
And I was like, hey, that's where I'm from. That's sacrilegious.
I don't want to call this church.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
I know some people no no, no, no, no no no,
but what you're in a lover this goes and she goes,
this is the only church some of those people ever
walk into.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Jay, I changed it. Now it's church. I make it church.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
So you saying that that's what I want people to feel,
because I have a room full of people every night
that might be disconnected from any kind of spirituality, but
they're all hurting and.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
This music has helped them in some way, and we
can this can be church for them. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
It's like I want you to laugh, I want you
to dance, I want you to cry, and I want
you to leave inspired and filling ten pounds lighter. You
know I don't want not you know, well, some crises
will put you to sleep, and some cries make you
feel better.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
I want to make you feel better. Cry, not to
put you to sleep. Cry, you know. And that is it,
and ever since then we we lean into it. We
call it. It's the church, man, it's this is church.
We say it on stage every night. Brother, this is church.
And once again, my wife, my purpose, reframed that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
For me in a way that I needed it, because
she was like, why would you go away from what
you naturally do? God naturally gave you a gift of
evangelism of the way that you speak, like, this is church.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Right. Then I was like, you're right, this is church.
And ever since then it's been church. Baby, Yeah, No,
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
It's for me too.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
It's been like.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
In our tradition, it's almost like you carry a temple
in your heart, right, like you carry God within your heart.
And so a lot of people to me would also
be like why are you going to this event? And
why are you in this? Like why are you going
to this event? And that? And I'm like if usually
when I go to these events, someone will come up
to me and start a spiritual, God centered healing conversation.

(01:16:52):
I'm like, but if I don't show up in these places,
we're not going to have that conversation. So that conversation
heals me, that conversation hopefully helps support someone else. It's
like I get to go as an ambassador for spirituality
and get to just put in a little sprinkle of
a reminder, and that to me feels like a hopeful,

(01:17:12):
beautiful thing to do because you never know who's going
to need that conversation, that interaction, that connection. It's not
that I'm doing it. I don't have any of that power.
But when we're being a vessel and we're being an instrument,
and we're happy to play that, play our role and
play our part and just be there as a as
a connector of worlds and be a portal. You know,

(01:17:34):
I don't have any power or any any of that,
but the ability to just represent whatever that may be
to the individual. I think, to me, that's that's how
I see my role in these places, and it's to me,
I feel like that's what I needed.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Yeah, well, sometimes the messenger has to become the message.
Yeah right, and you your presence, Jay, sometimes you got
to go places like I think about us. I don't
know how long it would have took for the universe
to put us together had it not happened at a
Cloud Davis party.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
I know I've been wanting it to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
And also equally, the last person I thought I was
gonna meet at the Cloud Davis party.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Was Jay Shetty, you know what I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
So it was really cool for me to be like,
because I'm an example of that of you being somewhere
where somebody might be like, what're you doing out at
this party at one o'clock in the morning, But it's
like you've helped me a ton, and getting to see
you lifted Just seeing you and hugging you lifted my spirit.
It's like I always call them them little arrows that
are showing you you're going the right way, and we

(01:18:33):
ignore them so much in life. We miss them. And
to me, you were an arrow. You were an arrow
that night, you know what I mean. Tyler Childers was
at my table. It's a country music artist I love.
I'd never met him and he's a big fan. Him
just saying that to me, it was like, that's an arrow.
I'm point going the right direction around here, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
This is all right. I wasn't as loss as I
thought I'd be at a big LA party.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
You know what I'm saying, dude, Yeah, that's what I mean,
like that idea, it's a big LA party and saying
for me, I was like, I'm watching this guy sing
about gut instead. Yes, this is insane, you know it is.
It was so special and I think watching you just grow.
I mean this new album I've picked out on my
favorite lyrics from some of my favorite tracks from yours.
There's this, uh well, this one of stone. Yes, there's

(01:19:14):
one lyric that says, I've had enough of my demons,
but angels only meet you where you are and I'm
in the duck.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
This is my favorite song on the album.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I know that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
That's what's so cool, and it's my favorite song because
of the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
I think these lyrics say the most and this whole
album if they were like lyrically, who do you stand
for and what do you stand by?

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
On this album?

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Every song's great winning streak means a lot to it,
but this record, man, that line that angels only meet
you where you are and I'm in the dark, and
it goes at least for now Lord, I an't losing
hope that somehow you could make a heart of gold
from a heart of stone. And I love songs. When
you can read a song and it's impactful. That is

(01:19:59):
as a song writer, Jay, that's it. That's the tail tale,
because most of the time our messages in the melody,
and if you don't have the melody there, they'll kind
of be like, oh, it didn't sound as cool as
I thought it did when I just read it flat.
But when I read heart of Stone, it goes, uh,
Dear Lord, can you hear me?

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
But dear Lord, can you hear me? I falling out
of grace. It's running like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
The river filled with all of my mistakes. My blood
is getting heavy, there's metal in my veins. The second
verse goes, their, Lord, can you hear me? I'm sackling
these chains. I'm haunted by the lies of every time
I said I change. It's slipping through the shadows and
that's weighing on my soul. The lights are shining on me,

(01:20:44):
but there ain't nobody home. I get goosebumps reading that,
and I you know what I mean. It's like, that's
to me, that was the ultimate cry for help.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
And like my whole music is about honesty. I love
the idea of being like God, I know I need you,
you know what i mean. But you got to come
over here, and I'm in a really dark place if
you're gonna get me out of this one, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
Yeah, Man, that song is just the goose. I just
every lyric on that record. Man, just that song was
the one. I would not let that song go. We
we wrote that song three different times. Oh wow, true
story just where I'd go home and just be like,
it's just not I wanted every every single line. You

(01:21:31):
wrote books, so you know every single word can't be
a killer, you know what I mean. But this song,
I just was like, I want every line of this
song to be thought out.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
I want to be a killer, you know what I'm saying.
But sometimes you got to get people to that. You
got to set them up for the kill and so
they really get it, you know what I mean. But
this was one of those where it's like I just
wanted Man, every lyric on that.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
Was it for me. So powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
There's another one that I love. I mean, there's so many,
but I'm picking a couple that I love and we've
talked about this. This is on un pretty. Uh. I
hate the man I used to be, but he would
always be a part of me, the man who I
was wrong, but he's the one who built me. I
feel like that's been our conversation today of just being
able to accept that he'll always be a part of you,

(01:22:17):
but that doesn't make you any lesson it's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Do you ever watch Stutz? Yeah, it's the shadow, right?
You know what I mean, It's that, it's that idea
of the shadow that's there. It's yeah, that's that's exactly
that there was. I'm so glad you got to get
into these lyrics and you're picking the ones that were
Me and Miles were talking about the other day, is
that you can tell on this album that I was
doing some work because it came out on the album,

(01:22:43):
like the way that I'm the stuff, the way I'm
writing is clearly like oh, you're like, oh yeah, this
kid's really doing some therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
For sure, and and and so so clearly, I mean,
this is higher than heaven. I get higher than heaven
to hide from myself, you know. Uh, just even that idea,
like is there a place higher than heaven? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
Right exactly. Yeah, and then think about this, you want
to get to heaven to hide from you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
The thought of that was so good, and you hearing
that lyric right was awesome. I've had to send back
my label.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
They sent me the list because they try to transcribe
my lyrics and I'm so country. They thought I said
too high for myself, and I was like, no, no, no,
too much from myself, and they were like okay, But
I was like that was cool too, but not as
cool as for myself.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
I love that. That's so funny, that's hilarious. No, but
I'm so excited for people to hear it. I was
lucky enough to, you know, get it earlier. I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
Thanks for taking the time to listen to a couple
of MS.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
Of course, No, I think it's I mean, it's not
even I listened to a lot of it, but those
were just I mean, I've got so many more. But
we could go on for every track. But I just
feel like it's healing music. And it's like I said earlier,
I could pray to it, I can meditate to it.
I couldn't to it, I can hang to it. I
get you know, and I think it's rare that I

(01:24:03):
feel that way, where a lot of music, when it
tries to be healing, it's cheesy, it's like kind of
like a bit corny, it doesn't you know. And I
feel that's when it's your real journey. That's that comes
across exactly because you're not trying to preach, you actually
going through it exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
You're going through it with the me and the listener
are going through this together, and we're sharing this experience
and feeling together. And it's also you're right because you
know what when they try to write songs, they try
to write these you songs, and nobody wants to be youwed,
you know what I mean. It's like you know, uh,
I know, I know you, I know you're feeling down.
It's like I don't you know, you don't know I'm
feeling down, you know what I mean? So, yeah, they

(01:24:41):
just write it on such a weird yeah, they it's
so hard to write cathartic music without it coming off
super corny or preachy or.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
Also that's why I don't feel a need to resolve
every song.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
And this is where we talk about how my sausage
is made a little bit but I think artists and
songwriters feel the need to resolve songs. It's like like
a song is a authority. Yeah yeah, and it's like
it's not. This is just a part of the movie.
It doesn't have to resolve, Like there doesn't have to
be Hope can happen at the end of the album.
Hope can happen on the first song of the album, right,

(01:25:13):
but you can take them through a genuine journey. Everything
doesn't have to cap you know what I mean, It doesn't.
Sometimes leaving a song unresolved. Fire and Rain by James Taylor,
I feel like that song never fully resolved itself, right,
And because of that, it's made it open for my interpretation.
And It's Against the Win by Bob Seeker, never really

(01:25:34):
resolved itself. These songs are the songs I always come
back to because you can identify with them every part
of your life. You know, when you resolve a song,
sometimes you take that away, and you take away the
power from allowing the person who's healing healing the song,
hearing the song to heal from what they're getting from it.
I hate when people go, what was this song about?
I love it when people like you go what's up

(01:25:55):
with this lyric?

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
This is deep.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
When they're like, so, what's this song about, I'm like, yo,
I want this person to get some from this song.
I don't know if they might think about it. I've
tell him what I thought it was about. They might
not ever hear it the way they need to hear.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
Yes, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Yeah, yeah, because then it's not their story. They're not
a part of this story. Yeah. You want someone to
fill in the blanks. You want someone to be the
guy in the glass.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
Art exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
Artists open for interpretation, and I want you to find
yourself in it, which is also why I write from
first person a lot. It's not a big eye thing
because I'm not a big eye guy, but first person
writing for me is a It's a cry for help
that we can all feel.

Speaker 3 (01:26:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
Yeah, there's only two more things I want to talk
to you about, because I know you've got to get
out here to perform today, so kind to us. This
blew my mind. Jim Todd, Yes, this is crazy. When
I heard about this, I was like, what so, Jim Todd,
who's the young attorney who prosecuted you. You're now working

(01:26:52):
with him?

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
That's true. This is a fact. It's the first time
we told this story too.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
This is really cool, this is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Yeah, he's starting the Dinkins Center for Juveniles to teach
traits for juvenile at risk kids. And you want to
talk about somebody just being awesome, Jay, imagine being the
guy who he charged.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
Me as an adult bound me over.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
I mean, the hardest thing that's ever happened in my life,
a felony I'm still trying to get rid of, is
now working to help juveniles. And then me, the same
kid he bound over, who is as wrong as I
should have been. You know, are now work.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
It's just to me one.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
It's such a change. It's such a signature of like,
I keep having these really cool moments Jay, where I'm like,
what a full circle moment?

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
God?

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Really?

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
You know, there's an old saying that when you do right,
they'll restore everything that went wrong. I'm watching it all restore.
It's happening, Jay, right in front of me. Dog like
my old prosecuting attorneys, my partner now to help juveniles.
You know that old juvenile I was in. Now let
me build studios in it and paint the walls for

(01:27:59):
the kids. You just like, I look at all these
moments and I'm like, man, God is like He's healing
my inner child in front of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
It's dude.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
When I got slimmed at Nickelodeon, I was like. I
went back that night and I was like, and I
got to do some with summer Slam. I got to
choke Slamspiday Summer Slam. I was like, God is really
healing my inner child in front of the world.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
I suffered in silence by myself for so long that
I'm now getting to redeem myself on a national platform.
The sheriff to Davidson County's jail, his name is Darren Hall.
Twenty two years he's been a sheriff. He was the
sheriff whenever I was in that county jail. The last
time I got locked up, the day my daughter was born.

(01:28:42):
He gave me a key to the jail I was
locked up in. It's the first inmate he's ever gave
a key to the jail too. And I got a necklace, mate.
I made a diamond crusted got a necklace with a
pair of handcuffs for every time I got arrested for
it and I call it my redemption chain. And to
have the relationship with Sheriff Darren Hall that we're close.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
My mayor loves me. Me and Jim Todd. I mean
that guy put me in jail. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah.
What's funny is they reached out to us. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
I've always been friends with him because when he became
an attorney, we used to talk and he represented a
couple of cases of mine.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
That wasn't that case because he conflict of interest.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
The cool part of this story is not even just
what I'm doing with it, but him think about the
heart change. He had to be hands on and watch
the system fail these kids for so many years that
it bothered him enough that later in life he was like,
I gotta circle back.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
And fix that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
That's beautiful, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Like Jim Todd's the real hero of that story to me,
you know what I mean, because I've been changed my life.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
It's glad you came around, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
That's what It just shows that if everyone's intentionally reflecting
looking at that life, what's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
Just a little bit of Jim Todd had some guy
in of glass. Mama, didn't he At some point in
time he went and looked at guy in glass and said,
you know what, I was a part of the problem
at one point too, and I want to be the solution.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Let's help these kids. Let's give these kids the resources
they didn't have whenever I was a district attorney. And
they said that he had that heart back then. But
you want to talk about humanizing stuff, Jay and I go.
I do a songwriter program with a company called The
Beat of Life at the Juvenile I was incarcerated in
and we go in there one day and Judge Callaway,
who's a judge in juvenile is there and she came

(01:30:23):
in to write songs. Jay and I'm in there watching
for the first time. I'm listening to her in her
group and they're giggling, they're laughing, they're writing lyrics, they're
having a ball. And I thought to myself, back to
the human thing. I love that we've had themes of
this whole conversation. She's seen those kids as kids for
the first time. She got not an inmate case number

(01:30:46):
that killed somebody or shot somebody or did something wrong.
She seen them as little, giddy fifteen year olds playing
cards and trying to write a song they never wrote before,
and they got to see her as a concerned mother,
and man.

Speaker 3 (01:30:59):
It just it was cried.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I mean, it was just so special to watch and
it was it was such a good thing. They were
so in the moment they didn't realize how special it was.
It's when she left. I was like, I want you
to know that that is the coolest thing that I've
ever seen a judge do. That you came, took off
the road, showed up a regular clothes and sat down
and wrote songs with these kids, Like that'll go maus

(01:31:21):
with everybody, you know what I mean. I understand you
still have a job to do and guidelines, you got
a bad bite, But I think this humanized everybody. I
think we all looked at each other a little different
that day in that jail cell, you know what I mean.
And uh, it was cool because you could tell that
she loved songs and singing in church, so to be
a part of that, it brought out a little child
and her right. And then these kids they never wrote
a song, so they're just they're they're they're really tough kids.

(01:31:44):
That are holding it back, and they just you start
seeing them get excited, and I was like, this is special, man,
this is a this is redemption spectacular.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
It's incredible. I want to and the the one thing,
Jelly Roll, that we reached out to your brother, who
sent through this beautiful love letter for you, Scott. Yes,
and so I'm going to read it to if you
don't mind, because you've given us such a gift today
and I wanted to find a way to thank you,
and I thought who better than the person who's known

(01:32:13):
you for so long? So he says, Dear Bubba Love,
Where to begin? First off? I just want to tell
you how unbelievably proud I am of you for what
you've achieved, and even more so the man you have
become personally. One of my proudest memories was being in
the courthouse with you, Bunny, Dad, and Pook the day

(01:32:36):
you got full custody of Bailey. Makes me tear up
a little just remembering how proud we all were of
the man you grew to be. Even back then. One
of those moments I remember looking at Dad with a
smile and not even having to say a word. Growing up,
I always saw the talent that the world is getting
to see now. Thinking back to your first day of

(01:32:57):
middle school and you had missed the bus, my mama said,
take your brother to school. We pull up across from
JC Napier Housing Projects and before you could open the
car door, me telling you that it would probably be
a good idea to start rapping, or to not be
the guy who doesn't throw the first punch. Long you
figured it out, brother. You were freestyling every ride after that.

(01:33:21):
I know, growing up I was not always the best
role model, and the older I got has given me
many sleepless nights of regret. You always always always came
to visit me when I was locked up, and yeah
I came to juvenile a few times, but when you
got bound over I was not there. Just know that
I had to leave TM, Bubba. I know it had

(01:33:43):
to hurt you that your brother wasn't there, and I'm
so sorry. Being young and where we came from is
my only excuse, Bubba, although not a good one. But
the amazing part of it all is what you're doing
as a human now, being so young and getting out
of being incarcerated over and over. Then hearing you had
a little girl born. While being there, you grew strength

(01:34:05):
and changed everything, started helping others with your songs. Those
who went and still are going through similar pasts and
struggles as we did. Being at your shows and seeing
people cry and be so touched by the words you
sing and person you are as amazing. You portray love
and hope. Jaja, you got out of lock up and

(01:34:25):
totally changed your direction, taking all the negatives and turning
them positive. For helping others to overcome what they've gone
through is amazing. Reaching out to me in Idaho Falls
several months ago and taking me out the dark place
I was in for years and years. I'm forever grateful
for you, brother. You've always been there for me and
our family. I love you more than you will ever know.

(01:34:48):
I know Dad is in heaven looking down, smiling ear
to ear with Nan and Beebee. He called it thirty
plus years ago at the Italian Street Fair in Brentwood, Tien,
where you were on stage doing carry to George Straight.
He looked at me and said, Jason has never met
a stranger. One day he will be an entertainer. Well,

(01:35:08):
look at you now, Bubba, I just want you to
know how proud your family is of you, and thank
you for doing what only you can do every day,
helping the world to be better and letting people know
it's never too late. You're a true inspiration to so many,
including your big brother. I love you, Bubba, Scott, Scooby Defort, Scooby.

Speaker 3 (01:35:28):
Baby God, Man, that is so awesome, dude. Oh thank you,
brother God. I love him. Man. He didn't even tell me,
he just left. I was just with him three days ago.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
Oh man, I want to thank you for just being
an amazing inspiration in my life brother, being introduced to you.
From the moment we met, I was like, this is
the guy I need to talk to. I'm here to
support you, serve alongside you in any way I can
thank you, Jack, and I can't wait to go want
to see what you do. I know this is just

(01:36:01):
the beginning, and I'm so so inspired by you. Your
true true light in this world and a true testament
to every transformation we believe in. You're you're living in
right now. So deeply humbled and uh. We end every
episode with a fast five. Every question has to be
answered in one word to one sentence.

Speaker 3 (01:36:19):
All right, And the first of.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
All, though, Jay I need to give your flowers though, brother,
you thank you again for your impact. You don't know
how many people you help. I always have this phrase
I use that. Uh, it's not a ticket stub, it's
a story. Those YouTube views are sold, baby, and you're
touching them.

Speaker 3 (01:36:39):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
Appreciate that deeply, deeply, man, I feel that and I
receive it all right, last last few minutes. Fair. Question one,
what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
Oh, best advice I ever heard or received, as cliche
as it is, just don't give up. It just my
father was real big about don't give up. He was
just super super. He believed in the law of hours
that if you put enough time into something that it
would work.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever
heard or received?

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
Give up?

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
The worst advice I ever received with somebody telling me,
you know it's not going to work, cut your losses.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Question number three. If you could define your current purpose,
what would it be. My current purpose is to help
and heal. I think my current purpose is to help
people heal through music.

Speaker 3 (01:37:34):
Beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
Question number four, a message you'd like to share to
anyone who's listening right now, like just what you need
them to hear, what you feel they need to hear
right now.

Speaker 3 (01:37:45):
I said it in my speech, but I live by
this quote.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
It's a quote I live by that the windshield is
bigger than the rearview for a measing baby, You've got
to move forward talk.

Speaker 3 (01:37:53):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
And fifth and final question we asked this every guest
has ever been on the show. If you could create
a law that everyone in the world world had to follow,
what would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Love truly, love truly, act out of love. If you
just thought to yourself, is that what love would say?
Every time you were fixing to say? Something that would
change the way we all talk to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
Jelly Row, thank you so much, Thank you brother, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
The album is out right now while we're speaking.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
And beautifully Broken, Babe, you got the biggest podcast in
the world.

Speaker 1 (01:38:23):
Shameless plug. My name is Jason Jelly rol D four.
My album is available. It's called beautifully Broken.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
Check it out. I'm trying to have my first number
one album.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
We're gonna make out, We're gonna make your mouth, We're
gonna put everything behind it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:36):
Beautif So grateful. Thank you for such a good conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,
You're trying to build more. I need you to listen
to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break
into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving
what you do. If you're trying to find your passion
and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 3 (01:39:05):
Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,
like as an artist, if you like it, that's all
of the value. That's the success comes when you say
I like this enough for other people to see it.

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Host

Jay Shetty

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jelly Roll: 5 Powerful Ways to Overcome Guilt and Shame & How to Finally Forgive Yourself