Michael Rubin: The One Mindset Shift You Need to Set Better Goals & See Patterns Before Your Competition

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which
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(00:45):
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Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't get about my network. So many people tell
me I've got this great idea, but I don't want
to hear about But like, let's go for it. Part
of being the entrepreneurs have the courage to fail. If
you're afraid to fail, you ain't gonna do shit.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
The global sports company Fanatics and you heard of it.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah Yeah, Founder and CEO Michael Rubin, Welcome back, sir.
I've seen death in its eyes. I've almost gone bankrupt
multiple times. There are so many things that I should
not have succeeded at, but I have because I won't quit.
If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then
you're actually saying you want to fail.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite
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(01:49):
It means the world to me.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
The best selling author on the most the number one
health and well in this podcast, Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, number one health
podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one
of you that come back every week to listen, learn
and grow. Now you know that my goal here and
intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different
walks of life. People who've achieved impact in their own
life and are having an impact around and across the world.

(02:18):
People who are motivated to do better, be better, and
give back. And today's guest is someone who's doing exactly that,
probably not as fast as he would like. I've just
learned as well. I'm talking about the one and only
Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and social justice advocate. Michael
has built several multi billion dollar direct to consumer companies.

(02:39):
Michael CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform that
is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses. Michael's
an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co chair
of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the
biggest names in sports, business, and culture that's dedicated to
advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that

(03:03):
perpetuate injustice in the United States. Michael was named Sports
Business Journal Executive of the Year in twenty twenty two
and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power
fifty list of most influential people in sports. Welcome to
on Purpose, Michael Rubin.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
I'm happy to be here. I've watched what you've done
and myle what you do, and you've got such an
incredible following and just huge respect for you.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, thank you. The feeling is very mutual. It's been
amazing watching your from afar. And I've always been fascinated
and drawn to people who've built incredible businesses and then
used their platform for impact because growing up I didn't
see a lot of that. Growing up, I either saw
people build businesses or have an impact, and so when
I see people doing the same, it's it's exactly the
values I try and live by and I love watching it.
So thank you for going down that line. But let's

(03:48):
dive straight in. I wanted to ask you, Michael, what
was you know, such a successful business person? What was
your first ever job that you ever had in life?

Speaker 2 (03:57):
So for me, I think a lot of people know
the story. I was a terrible student, you know, barely
met out of high school. I went to college for
less than semester. As bad as the students I was,
I was honestly the worst athlete, Like I was just
I wasn't coordinated, I wasn't a good athlete. The one
thing I was always good at was working. Like I
loved business from the time I was a kid. So
everything I remember about being young was working. So my
first job was that I can remember. It was probably

(04:19):
eight years old. I probably had like five different side hustles.
I mean I was selling trading cards, you know, by
the way, not to my friends, but to my friends'
parents because they had the money. I was when it
would snow in Philadelphia where I grew up, I would
get five kids to do the snowshovel and I would
go door to door and actually sell the snowshoveling. I
was selling vegetable seeds door to door. I was making
stationary and the Appletude plus and selling it. I mean,

(04:40):
I was just like I was the real entrepreneur, Like
it's what I was good as, what I like doing,
And so I had so many different jobs as an
eight year old. But I mean that's like when people say,
you know how long you've been at it, it's crazy
forty three years. I've been doing this since I've been
eight years old.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Wow, And when you were doing that, was there any inspiration.
Was it just you wanted money? What did you want
to buy? What were you doing with that? Like excited
you about it?

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't think for me, even at eight years old,
it was ever about money or wanting to buy things.
I think it was always about doing what you're good at.
And for me, knowing that I wasn't good, like I
had a lot of learning challenges. I mean as a kid,
like I had every you know person to try to
help me with all the things I sucked at, whether
it was athletically or you know, it was just like
I just I wasn't good at sports, I wasn't good

(05:22):
at school. But business is what I was good at.
So I just always gravitate to that. I think that's
a good thing. Like you should always figure out how
to do things that you love. You should figure out
how to do things that you're good at and kind
of double down on that. So that's always been my
whole life.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
How did you know that at eight? Because I feel
my most eight year olds today obviously playing video games.
Back then, they're probably watching TV, maybe they were out
riding a bike, Like, how did you know that you
were good at this?

Speaker 2 (05:43):
And I think it's something for me, I was born
with like I was born with that entrepreneur a hustle.
I think I came out of the womb like just
you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur, like just loving
the hustle. And you know, to me, you know, I've
been at this a long time. I work harder than
I've ever worked today. I love. It's an honor to do.
It's fun, it's an opportunity. Like I'm never tired, I'm
never worn out, like I'm just always I just want
to go.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, can it be learned? Can you teach people to
hustle and grind and develop the mindset or is it
born with as you are?

Speaker 2 (06:09):
So I think I was definitely born with it. That said,
I do think, you know, for me, the way I
learned is by being a sponge from people. So I'm
always picking things up from different people. Like if you
just look at the diversity of people I have around me, Like,
I'm always taking so much learnings from them to you know,
be better what I do, and I try to give
those backs. So yeah, I think you can definitely learn
a lot of the stuff just what you know, find

(06:29):
people you respect, find people that you admire, find people
that you want to be like, and then you know,
take the good from them and by the way, figure
out what they do that you don't like and ignore that.
Like I see good and bad each person. I try
to take the good and learn from the bad. And
same thing with me. I've got lots of bad habits.
I mean, like, I'm myself.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
That's right, That's all I ask for. That's all I
ask for. There is no judgment here, there's no it's
a safe space. I just want people to be the
authentic selves and so so please continue to be yourself
and what so what I love that idea of learning
from people, being a human sponge. What's the most recent
or most memorable thing you think you took away from
someone A conversation, a moment, something you read or heard

(07:07):
or learned. Was there anything that kind of stuck with you?

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, I'm in LA for
the week. I'm doing six to ten meetings a day
in my house, and you know, to the people I
met with in the last two days has been through
some real challenges and just watching the challenges that they've
been through, I'm like, Okay, I need to be that
much more careful about how I conduct myself in everything
that I do. So to me, I'm always taking learnings
away from people. I think if you're not like you know,

(07:31):
you have no chance of like you know, getting better
at what you do. I mean it's like life is
no different than sports. You just got to keep getting
better at your sport. And so to me, I keep
working in everything I do.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, what do you think obviously now, like when you
started forty three years ago at eight years old, entrepreneurship
wasn't as talted as this incredible it was.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
It was actually weird, right, Like to be clear, like
I was a nerd like that, I loved business, Like
entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology, Like I don't think
it became cool to almost from my perspective, everything was
really the birth of the dot com error. Yeah, you know,
kind of late nineties is when entrepreneurialism became cool. I
think before that was kind of nerdy and weird. So
I was definitely born before it all.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, And I'd say even off to the financial crisis
in like two thousand and seven eight, like that recession,
which is because I grew up in the era where
we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants. So
when I was at college or when I was growing up,
that was seen if you were into business. My goal
was to go into that world because that's what I
aspired for. Whereas I think the generation off to me,

(08:32):
the one off to me, they were like, I'm not
going to go work for someone. I want to build
something on my own.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
I think that's amazing for me. I love. One of
the things that I'm fortunate enough to do is really
I think, in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism.
And you know, one of our biggest businesses the collectibles business,
which is trading cards of my rebility, and that's all
about entrepreneurs. There's so many entrepreneurs in that business. It's
probably the business in a lot of ways that I
actually related to all three of our businesses. But it's
the business that's maybe the most relatable for me because

(08:58):
I grew up selling trading our snate year old. But
also it's all about entrepreneurialism.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Talk to me through that business because so I remember
so back in London obviously where I grew up, I
collected football stickers, right soccer stick Yeah, so that's what
we'd have. We'd have the big you'd have the spread
with all the premier league clubs, and you'd collect the
little stickers, and that was a big part of collectibles.
How has that industry evolved as technology has grown up?
Has it stayed the same where people are still collecting
cards and like top trumps and things like that.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, well, I'll say we got into the business about
three years ago in a really significant way, and today
we own Tops, which is the you know, kind of
pre eminent brand in trading cards. I'd say that, you know,
until our arrival in the industry little less than three
years ago, I said, there hadn't been you know, a
tremendous amount of innovation. There hadn't been a tremendous amount
of marketing.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
We kind of looked at the business said wow, like
this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible
fan base, yet it hasn't changed for like decades. Here
and you go to a you know, the big trading
card show where there's more than one hundred thousand people
that come to Chicago this past summer. It's called the
National Trading Card Show. Yeah, it looks like something from
only thirty forty years ago. So for us, that was
just that just meant opportunity meant if you actually make

(10:05):
innovative products, you actually really market these products, you build
a better consumer experience and bring people forward into twenty
twenty three. Like what an opportunity. So for me, like,
we do that in all of our business, Like I
love like we love finding great opportunities, big challenges and
kind of being unrelenting about going after them.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, how has that changed? How has that practically changed?
Like people still buying cards and trading.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Physical cards are the biggest part of business. It's in
a lot of way, it's very similar to art. But
I can tell you, like just as one quick example
this year, you know, our team came in and actually
the CEO of our business, Mike Mahon, said, Hey, I
got a great idea. Every time a player debuts for
the first time, I want to put a patch on
their jersey and then as soon as they get done
the game, I'm want to put that patch off and
put it in a one on one trading card so
you have the card from the first So think about

(10:48):
for us, you know, maybe I grew up in the
Michael Jordan or had I had you know, Michael Jordan
or yeah, if I had Michael Jordan or Kobe's first
one on one cards, Yeah, that could be the most
valuable keeps that I could ever have. And so you
know that innovation, Like for us, it was really simple, like, yeah,
why would you not want to put a patch on
someone's jersey sticking into a car to make this a
one on one card? But no one did that until

(11:09):
we created it. And by the way, it's already live.
We came up with the idea this past December. It
was it was live in April with all baseball players.
Is going to be three to four hundred baseball player's
debut this year, you know, with this debut patch that
we put into a one on one card. So that's
just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because
you have to be aggressive, like we have to be
great entrepreneurs, we have to push whatever we do.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah. Now, what I love about that though, for everyone
who's listening is I think we're stuck in this world
now that believes that all innovation has to be digital
or technological or virtual or some sort of you know AI,
whereas this is like the most tangible physical change, but
it's still so valuable because it's what people want.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Look, we're three business there. First business where we started
is what we call fin ex Commerce. That's our merchandise business.
We own Lids, the hat retailer. We own Mitchell Nas,
We own Fanatics, which operates you know, obviously all of
the different league you know, the NFL shop, then BA store,
and we sell you know, more than six billion hours
of mostly fan apparel and headwear. Okay about you know,
you know, more than one hundred million unit sub merchandise

(12:07):
a year. That's a very physical business. Okay, but AI
is helping us to do things more effectively in the
collectible's business. AI is going to help us to be
more effective. And then our third business is the online
sports better than I gaming business. So you know, for me,
we still do a lot of physical things, but there's
so many things in the digital world that help us
to be better.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah. No, but I love that collaboration and thinking about
it that way because sometimes the greatest value to someone
is a physical change. But you're learning that through the AI.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
I still want to wear my Kobe jersey, Yeah exactly,
exactly this, I want my Bronz card.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, that's the same thing I'm still buying. I support
Manchester United, That's that's my soccer team, and I'm still
buying you know, soccer jerseys every single year.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
We appreciate that because that's a fanatics next store.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Even though I absolutely even though we absolutely suck right now,
but it's you know, but.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's what's sports fans about it. Sometimes you great years
and you get you're getting those championships, and other times
you're gonna suck and you gotta stay with your feel
the pain.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm a real fan now. I grew up as a
glue hunter because we just want everything. And now I'm
going through real fandom of ten.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
We're gonna test you now, We're gonna see what you're
made of. But you really committed to man United here.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, that's that's I'm being tested right now, being perfect.
But we were talking about people not being entrepreneurship not
being tired when you started. When you look at it today,
now it's become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for
people to want to try. It's not necessarily things people
are good at like you said you were, It's not
necessarily a skill that we honor or give it the

(13:29):
kudosk that it deserves. What are the mistakes people are
making when they think about being an entrepreneur today?

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Well, first of all, entrepreneurialism isn't for everybody. But if
you think it's for yourself, you better go out there
and try it and put your best foot forward. For me, Look,
the biggest mistakes I see people make in building a
business are kind of a couple of common themes. One is,
first you have like are you even going to take
the app bat? So many people tell me I've got
this great idea, but like I don't want to hear

(13:56):
about but like, let's go for it. Let's see if
you have an idea you want to do something.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
I love the story you were just telling me before
we went on here that you came over here and
you know, you work one place for six months and
then you're like, I want to go out and do this,
and you went out and did it. Like part of
being an entrepreneurs to have the courage to fail, Like
you just have to go out there and try it.
And by the way, when you fail, which many times
you will, you're dont learn from that failure. You're going
to grow from that failure. You think the best. You
talked about Kobe being your favorite, you know athlete, Well,
guess what, how many times did he fail? And then

(14:22):
he got better and he pushed through it. And so
that's what being an entrepreneur is. So from my perspective,
it's really all about first and foremost. If you have
something you want to do, if you believe in it,
go for it. Don't worry about whether you succeed or not.
Go out and take the swing. And if guess what
if you strike out, if you fail, just go back again.
And I know some people going to say, oh, well,

(14:42):
he's really successful now, so it's easy to say, but
I gotta tell you something. I've like, I've seen death
in its eyes. You know, I've Almo has gone bankrupt
multiple times. You know, I've had epic failures and every
one of those led me to be better than what
I do. So that's my first thing. Second thing I'd
say is you need great people around you, Like whether
it's great people you're learning from that you want to
be a sponge from, whether it's you build a great

(15:04):
team to do what you do, like I know for
fanatics script eighteen thousand people that get up and go
to bed obsessed with how do we improve the fan
experience each day? But like I collect and work with
the best people on the planet. Like, if you don't
work with great people, you will fail. Like you can't
win a championship if you don't have great talent, but
that talent also works, needs to work together. And then
the last thing, and this will sound corny, but like,
have fun in what you do. Like I love what

(15:25):
I do. I have the greatest job of the planet.
I get to wake up, you know, work eighteen hours
a day, go to bed thinking about you know what's next.
I dream about my work nearly every day. Like I'm
having work dreams all the time because I'm obsessed with
what I'm doing. It's like it's fun. It's like I
should pinch myself. It's so awesome what I get to do.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, absolutely, no, I love hearing that. And I think,
you know what's fascinating to me as well with being
an entrepreneur. You know, my story was very different to
finding my way into entrepreneurship. I grew up thinking I
had to have a steady job because that's how I
was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me
academically ASTU and so I was a straight A student,
did first class at you like I was always good
at that. And then I got into a job afterwards,

(16:04):
after my own detour, and when I finally got into
a job, I was just like, this doesn't feel right,
Like this doesn't feel like this is going to use
my skills to the best of my ability. This doesn't
feel like I'm going to propel and do well and
become my best version of myself. It wasn't about money
or what I thought I could win at. It was
I just don't feel this is gonna complete me or
make me feel like I'm winning in the way that

(16:26):
I can.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do
every day. And I'm muchay saying I know a lot
of people that have been really successful financially and they're miserable,
you know what. They don't love what they do every day.
They're not happy. Like for me, I don't think about
financial success. I think about like just loving what I'm
doing now. Financial success can tell you are you winning losing?

(16:48):
That's your report card, that's the scoreboard. Right. Good financial
results means you're winning. Bad financial results means you're not
winning in the current moment. But for me, like I
just want to love what I do every day, I
can agree with you more.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
I want to wake up and do what I love,
which is why I do this, because I get to
sit down with fascinating people, pick people's minds.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
And then we each learn from each other.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Absolutely, absolutely, And by the way.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I guarantee you I'll learn, I'll leave you today I
haven't picked up some things from you, and you'll leave
from here. That's the way it works. That's the way.
Like we should all be students of each other.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah. Absolutely, Who's who's the randommest person you've learned from?
I wonder, like, who's the most curious, random, intriguing person
that we wouldn't expect for you to learn from, Like
not like a business mogul or you know, someone like that,
but someone you're like, you know what that person I
didn't expect to learn from them, but I did. Is
there someone like that comes to mind?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I could give you a thousands examples. I mean, I
could tell you when I used to be part of
the ownership group of the Philadelphia Sixers. I'd walk through
the arena, and I would ask lots of arena workers
what's going on here today? You know what's working, what's
not working? Like, you know, you can pick up things
from everybody. I could. I could walk through the street,
look at what someone's wearing and say, hey, where'd you
buy that? Is that a good? Do you like that?

(17:53):
You're not like that? Like I'm always asking questions, so
you know, for me, I mean that's pretty random if
you just walk up in the street and ask somebody,
you know, where'd you buy that? Why did you buy it?
Do you love that? So I'm always picking things up.
I'm watching the way trends are changing with people. I'm
probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity
of friends that I have, And I'm learning from the
people around me every single day.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, I think that's the only way you understand the
pulse of human behavior. Right. It's like asking questions watching patents.
I think patent watching is an ability, whether it's an algorithm,
whether it's the stock market, whether it's you know, crypto
or whatever it is. For people, watching patents is such
an unbelievable skill. Would you say that's a skill that
you've honed and developed and built well.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I think it's a really important skill in business because
I think it's very predictive of the future. Okay, So
the reality is when someone comes in and I'm interviewing
a top executive for a role one of our businesses,
and they could seem great, and then I'm going to
go out and I'm never going to ask anybody for reference. Ever.
I've never asked somebody, hey, can you tell me who
to call?

Speaker 1 (18:51):
It?

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Like, that's the you ask me for reference to myself.
I call each other's people and say, hey, I gave
you a reference. Make sure you say great things about me. Right.
So the reality is I'll interview somebody, the first thing
I do is if I like them. As soon as
they leave, I go out and I start calling people
that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns. Okay,
because to me, fifty percents to interview and fifty percent

(19:11):
is what I learned behind the scenes. And that's probably
the more important fifty percent because someone can blow me
away and then you know, you'll find out one minute
that person sucks, that person people don't like working with them,
or you can find out that person was a little
bit understated, but they are beasts. You know, they've got
huge followership, they're super smart, they've got an unrelenting work ethic.
So to me, pattern recognition is everything I use in

(19:33):
everything that I do. By the way, I use pattern
recognition when I go play blackjack with my friends. You know,
there's three types of cards you're gonna get cars. You're
either going to be you know, you're either streaking hot,
you're streaking cold, or you're kind of in between. And
you know, when you're cold, you should not do what
sometimes I'll do if I'm misbehaved, which is be aggressive
when you're cold, because you got a pattern of going on.
So you gotta recognize patterns whatever you do.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs higher and
fire and recruit and you know, reward and retain people. Well,
what have you found when you're interviewing someone? I feel
like you must have interviewed so many people over the
years for huge positions, small positions. In the beginning, what
are you looking for and how are you finding out?
Apart from the second part, which I love calling out

(20:14):
people that you have in common, what are you asking?
What are you looking for and how are you making
sure you find it in that very date like format.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So let me say first of all, and this will
I think shock you. I still probably spend ten to
twenty percent of a seventy to ninety hour work week
interviewing people. Okay, So I am a beast on finding
great talent within our companies because to me, you can't

(20:44):
win without great talent. So it is probably the thing
or one of the things that I spend the most
time one is the quest for incredible talent. I'm looking
for first, does someone have the subject matter expertise and
the intellect to be successful in what we want them
to do? And then two do they have the leadership skills?

(21:05):
Because generally I'm interviewing people that are either going to
work for me or someone who's gonna work for someone
who I work with. So let's say the top fifty
to one hundred people within our our eighteen thousand people.
So I'm looking for people that are going to be
real leaders, that are gonna, you know, share the same
values that we share. I'm looking for people that can
be with us for a long period of time, Like
I don't want people that want to come in and

(21:25):
be with us for three years. I want people that
want to, like I like, people want to be with
us and build their careers with us for maybe their
entire life, you know. We want people that are just
going to be you know, and also people that are
going to like just they're gonna figure how to win,
They're gonna put it on the shoulders, They're gonna be unrelenting,
Like that's my personality. Like, there are so many things
that I should not have succeeded at, but I have
because I won't quit, okay, and so so I think

(21:46):
those are some of the things that I just rambled
to you that I care about.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
No, no, no, I love those And I guess the thing
about not quitting is really interesting, right, because you've got
this unrelenting You can see it in the way you
speak and your eyes, Like I've just spent a few
moments with you, we've never met before today, and I
can fully see that it is just at the core
of who you are. And you probably find that you
can push people and they may not be able to

(22:09):
go as far every time because they may not have
that same energy in them. So how have you found
that balance of like seeing someone who you know has
the potential. You know, they have the skills, but it's
almost like they're like Michael, I already went seven times
and you're like, yeah, dude, we're gonna go seventeen because
I know at seventeen we're gonna get there.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah. I think the people that are in my real
inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that
I work with day in and day out. The people
that run my three businesses that the online sports betting
and I gaming business, the commerce business which is merchandise,
and the collectible's business which is trading cards and memobilia.
These businesses, and then my three corporate executives, like they

(22:47):
have that same mentality. I wouldn't want to work with
anyone that didn't have that mentality of like, you know,
because they're saying the culture for the entire eighteen thousand
you know, employees at Fanatics and so to me, people
don't share our core values. You know, they don't believe
in what we believe in. This is probably not gonna
be a right fit. They could be a great human being,
a great individual, just not be right for us.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Do you ever take a break? Have you ever taken
a break?

Speaker 2 (23:12):
To me, I don't understand work life balance. It's just
it's not who I am. So I'm not gonna apologize
for it. And I know I sound like if people
could listen to say, like this guy's feel a little
bit deranged, But I am who I am. I know,
like I know what I'm good at and I know
what I like doing.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
I mean, it made sure you, but I fully relate
to it, like to me, it's I you know, I
think people I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm trying to get more people to, you know, try
to get more people to not look at me like I'm.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Crazy, and I would agree with I feel exactly the
same way. Like this week, and this is my average
normal week. I have morning hikes where I'm out with
people that I work with, but I love them and
I enjoy their company. They're not people I have to
work with that people I enjoy working with. So I'm
having a hike meeting in the morning, which is you know,
seven thirty am. Then I'm at work, whether I'm doing

(23:54):
this or whatever I'm up to when I'm recording meditation,
so sometimes i'm alone in a studio and sometimes I'm
with people. And then I have meetings and then I've
been having dinner meetings too, and I love it. I
won't have it any other way. I've had the best interactions.
I'm getting to know the best people. I know their families.
I know they're getting to know their kids, their spouses,
whatever it is. And to me, it's like, this is
what I want life to be. I actually don't look
at life as work and life like I don't have

(24:17):
that disconnect. And I actually think that when you look
at life as a disconnect, that's when you think you're
taking away from the other.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
And I also peach do what you love to do. Yeah,
it almost breaks those barriers down totally.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. No, So I'm actually more on your side than
people may think. I'm a big fan of having my
daily routines and habits that make me the best version
of myself, Like obviously meditation, working out. There are certain
non negotiables. Are there things in your day that you
do that are your routines that may not be those things,
but things that you're like, you know, this one thing
that I do per day, this makes me feel great.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
It's probably centered around work. If I'm going to be out,
that's cool it with you. I was always pleasantly plump
until my journal came out. So now that my journals
came out, I've gone from two ten to once six.
I'd say working out is more important to me. You know,
when you're two ten, it's harder to work out. When
you're one hundred and sixties, much easier to work out.
So you live here in the top of Runion, and
you know for me, you know, kind of hiking to

(25:10):
the top of Runion. You know, I've done that once
already this week. We're gonna do it again tomorrow. Like
I love doing it, like it's a it's a blast
for me. Working out is actually something that is becoming
good for me because it's the one thing that lets
me get a little bit of a mental break. Putting
my phone down sometimes I can be so addicted to
my phone. It's just like I just need like sometimes
at dinner when you know my family has dinner, just

(25:32):
like put my phone down for twenty minutes. That's a
good thing. So I'd say things that have helped me
of late have been you know, getting those three to
four workouts in per week, because it does give me
some mental clarity. And I'd say putting my phone down
twenty or thirty minutes a day when I'm just not
going to look at it and say, okay, like give
me a mental break, because I think you could just
become so obsessed that it is almost it's bad for you,

(25:55):
and then you become less effective. Probably the biggest routine
I have of we say, like, let's keep it real.
It's going to be the people that I work close with.
It's talking to them all the time. I always just
like peeling the lighters back on what we're doing. So,
like any of my top leaders, I'm on the phone
with on zooms with meeting with in person all the
time because that's the way we're just like building the
best business.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah. Absolutely, and I do believe that it's what it
takes for the level of success that you've achieved. I wonder,
you know, if you if you google your net worth
it says eleven billion. It could be more. Probably is
how do you define how much you're worth?

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I don't I'll tell you a story. I probably shouldn't say. God,
this is blowing somebody. I should blowup it. But like
Forbes reached out and they said, hey, we want to
put you on the cover of Forbes for the Forbes
four hundred. I'm like, no, I don't want to be
known for my net worth. I want to be known
for building a great company. By the way, there's so
many things with a company that we suck at that
we need to be better at, Like I want to
be Like the way I look at it is I'm

(26:49):
a big startup, and I want to make sure that
I'm always fighting to be better in everything we do
and everything we do. I want to build what we
make better for the fan, and we have so much
to do to accomplish that. So I don't want to
be known about money. I don't want to be known.
I want to be known about making the world a
better place, for making my company better. Those are, honestly,
you know, the two things I'm maniacally focused on.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
I believe it. I believe it, I genuinely do.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
And I, by the way, who can Like I'm not
in a competition for like it's irrelevant, Like my life
is not changing financially based on anything that happens going forward.
You know, I'm fortunate that I'm in a nice position today.
So like, to me, the thing that gets me most
exciting is winning in business, because that's my sport. That's
what I'm good at. And so I look at each
business and I look at not all the things we

(27:31):
do right, I look at all the things we do
wrong and all the things we can be better at.
And so I'm always saying, how can we improve in
everything we do? Because guess what, there are a lot
of things we need to be a lot better at.
And that's what I'm focused on. And then, you know,
upfront you talked about kind of giving back is interesting.
I never ever cared about making a difference in the world,
and so I had an event in twenty seventeen that

(27:52):
did change my perspective. Before that, I would just always
write checks. You came and said, hey, I'm doing this. Hey,
let me give you a check to shut you up
as quickly as I could because I didn't care, just
want to focus on work. And then my eyes got open,
which is what people say, like, hey, should I be
behind this that? I said, do what's all that? To
do what's real? And you know, for me, that's kind
of how my life is kind of you know, evolved.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, And why was it I believe it was Meet
Miller introduced you to criminal justice.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Well, it wasn't. I mean, everyone knows the story at
this point, you know, you know, meet God, you know,
sent to prison for two to four years for popping
a wheel on a motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
He had.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
The smartest thing he did for both of us was say, hey,
can you come to court with me that day? I
want you see what happens when a black person goes
to court. I didn't, like even understand what he was saying.
And then, you know, I watched him get sent to
prison for two to four years for not committing a
crime for popping a wheel on a motorcycle. Like that
was the most uncomfortable thing that's ever happened to my body,
because it was like, I'm used to being in control.

(28:44):
I'm a strong business leader. I'm used to leading, and
now I had a judge who sent him to prison
for two to four years for not committing a crime
for popping a wheel and a motorcycle. And it was
like the most out of body experience I ever had.
And so once he ultimately got out of prison and
we started the reform alliance, you know, for me me,
you know, I learned a really valuable lesson because a
lot of people told me, don't get involved with this.

(29:05):
Don't get involved with him. You're gonna hurt your business,
You're gonna hurt the Sixers. And I just went with
my instincts, which is like this my brother and like
he needs help him. By the way, Jay Z and
desra Press from Rock Nation stepped up in a huge way,
like you know it. It was kind of us collectively.
But like I've had a couple experiences in the last
four or five years where we've done things with people
told us would be bad for business, bad for us,

(29:26):
and we didn't care. We do what we thought was
the right thing, and you always get paid back in karma.
Like that is something I've learned in the last five years,
probably the biggest thing I've learned in the last five years.
You know, don't worry about what people tell you. It's
going to be the right actime you do what you
think is right. If you do what's right, you know
it generally works out.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah. No, And I'm glad you've repeated that story. There
may be some of alreadyence who may or may not
be away, so thank you for sharing that. But and
I wanted them to hear it from you because it
is it's so interesting when something becomes so personal, when
it happens to someone that's so close to you, the
issue almost becomes so much more relatable and easy to
access for you. What have been some of the most

(30:01):
Like I loved what you said, Like the moment you
walked in here, I was telling you how much I've
appreciated the impact work you're doing. And you're like, we're
not doing it fast enough, there's more to do. You know,
well we're not, And I love that, Like, that's exactly
the energy you need to have. So walk me through
the winds that have been there that have shown you
that you're doing the right thing, and then walk me
through one are the issues that you're still trying to
solve and figure out.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well, look, the interesting thing was when Meek got sent
to prison in November twenty seventeen, just about everybody I
knew said, do not get involved in this. This wee
we fleed poorly on the Sixers, This we fleed poorly
on fanatics. Less people will buy tickets and they're going
to see you helping a criminal, and so dasire pre

(30:44):
As from Rock Nation myself. You know, we spent a
lot of the next six months you know, working every
day to get him out of prison. And once we
got him out of prison, you know, Meek said to me,
And I said to Meek, like, look, this is testinon.
You got sent to prison because you were the one
anointed to help fix the system. And I would if
you would have asked me before November twelfth, twenty seventeen,

(31:05):
when he got sent to prison, if you would have
said to me, what do I care about? From a
charity perspective? Who was writing checks to get people out
of my office as quickly as possible. I did not
care about any issues. But what Meeke used always say
to me, Michael, this is a normal day for black America.
And so you know that he had been sent to
prison for a technical probation violation, it was easy for
us to say, we have to change the probation and

(31:26):
parole system. That's what we set out to do. The
interesting thing was when we finally decided to do this,
which was I guess finally when we did it. Immediately
I was trying to figure out how to come up
with a goal, because to me, you have to come
up with big, bold goals. And this speaks to entrepreneurialism.
And not taking a kind of charitable approach to things.
I asked a friend of mine who I don't want
a name, but someone I have a huge respect for.

(31:46):
I said, you know, how many people should we try
to get out of probation parle. They said, well, how
many people in the system? I said four and a
half million. They said we'll go with ten thousand. That's
a really safe number. I said ten thousand. Let's go
for a million. So we're in this less than five years.
We've passed seventeen bills in eleven states and created a
pathway for seven hundred thousand people to get off of

(32:08):
probation and parrol who shouldn't be on it. And by
the way, there were four and a half million people
on probation proole when we started. There's three point eight
million people ten And what's proven this really important understand
If you keep someone on probation or parole too long,
you entrap them in the criminal justice system, and then
what you do is you actually create a less safe
outcome for neighborhoods and for environments versus. If people serve

(32:29):
their time, have their appropriate amount of rehabilitation, you know
they're on probation Burrow for the right amount of time,
then they're going to go out they're going to make,
you know, a positive impact on them world. So Meek
had been on probation between the time served and time
left eighteen years now. In California where we're doing this today,
the governor as signed it in one of the first
bills that we did with the avenue, which was amazing,

(32:50):
is a one year cap on misdemeanor and a two
year cap on felonies. And that was like breakthrough legislation
that we worked on together, you know, with many people
to bring together to make that happen in the state
of California. It's one of the best things we've done
on the reform line. So my point is like, that's huge.
We turn this negative into a positive. We then came
up with a really bold goal that people thought we

(33:11):
were nuts when I told people million people, Like everyone
looked at me like I have seven heads, But I'm like,
what's the worst that happens? Like, so we get three
hundred thousand people, four undred thousand people, I Alstoll think
we won. I don't care you want to say we
fail because we didn't get the million. And by the way,
now we're gonna we're gonna surpass the million.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
I think, wow, that's incredible, and you're so right. Most
of us, when we set a bold goal, whether it's
to make an impact or whether it's in business, we're
actually just worrying about what everyone will think if we
don't hit that goal.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
So I'm gonna give you a great example. So today
at Fanatics, you know, we built a pretty big business
in our commerce business, which is merchandise. That's where I started,
That's where a lot of people know it's from. By
the way, we still have so much to do to
be better, so many things to improve the consumer experience,
to innovate more product. We're a leader in that business.
In the collectible's business, we're a real leader today. In

(33:55):
the online sports ban a eye gaming business, we're just starting. Okay,
we're gonna be Fanatic Sports book just launched earlier this year,
will be basically in just about every legal state by
the end of this year under the Fanatics brand with
one wallet. I woke up and our guys we talk
about being number three, like you know, hey, Fandels number one,
DraftKings number two, we're number three, and you know, sorry,

(34:17):
we aspired to be number three. Today we're like number eight.
We're just started. And I woke up about three weeks
ago and I called our CEO, Machen, who's amazing as Matt, like,
we got our goal needs to be number one, by
the way, Maybe we're accomplish it, maybe we won't. Maybe
we want to be successful at all. Like the jury's out.
We're investing in a billion and a half dollars to
try to be the top player. Okay, but like, I
don't want to play for number three. Number three is

(34:37):
a loser. I want to play for number one. And
so many people are gonna say to me, so many
people listen to this, we'll be like, wait, you want
to be number one to Fandueling DraftKings, an online sports
bean in eye gaming. I'm declaring right now the first
time my public says this, I want to be number one.
I have no idea whether I have any chance of
that accomplishment, but I can tell you what I'm not
waking up to try to be number three.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
That's a loser, and that's what's got you here. So
you feel convinced that that's what it was. What was
the do you remember the fast big goal you ever.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Set I do. In two thousand and nine, I made
a goal I said to all our team, I said
that I want to build. We were two hundred and
fifty million dollars in revenue. Twenty ten. I said, one
day we could be a billion dollars in revenue. That
division six billion dollars today. Okay. I said one day
we could be a billion dollars. Okay. Then four years

(35:22):
later I said, one day we could be five billion dollars. Okay.
And we're only just trying to come up with goals
for just like to try to measure, you know, success
or failure. But I love come up with bold goals,
and I don't care whether I accomplish them or fail
I care about come up with bold goals to work
against and then making huge progress against them, whether I
accomplish them or not.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, the point is you're more likely to challenge yourself
enough to come up with better strategies, more products, better
customer service, Like you're actually just going to improve drastically
towards that level.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then
you're actually saying you want to fail to start with.
If you come up with bold goals and by it's easier. Look,
I know people going to say I'm an owner, it's
easier to say that as an owner. Okay. And maybe
sometimes you set goals up that you say to yourself
because you don't want to tell your boss, like I
always Okay, what are you talry about? Here's the budgeting
goal I'm giving you. But now let me tell you

(36:11):
the real goal that I have. Okay. And so I
like rallying people against big, audacious, you know, hard your
achieved goals, because I think you're just gonna accomplish more.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah. Absolutely. How does how does this energy kind of
over to Michael's love life? Like, how does this kind
of how does how does Michael in love change? From
my line?

Speaker 2 (36:29):
I mean you have to ask Camille that. I think
what Camille would say is she's incredibly supportive of what
I do. She knows is what I love doing. You know,
she's the most incredible mother in the planet. We have.
So I have a seventeen year old daughter and that
I have a three ye old one year old With Camille,
you know, she puts as much energies I put into work,
she puts into being a mom. And I think that's
what makes us great together. Would I say that, you know,

(36:49):
Amo is the most available person know does she want
to you know, kill me multiple times a week? Probably yes,
But she also knows this what makes me mean what
I love to do, and you know she loves being
the greatest mom in the world. We have a great relationship.
But you know, would you call my personal life or
our personal life perfect? Definitely? Not because I work like
an animal.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
No, of course not. Of course, no, no, No one
has the perfect personal or professional level. But did you
The reason why I ask is, you know, it's really interesting.
I always feel like, you know, so much can be
solved at the point of connection. What I mean by
that is, I you know, my wife's a busy person.
I'm a busy person, but i've you know, I was
saying to some of my team the other day, I'm

(37:25):
really grateful that my wife has never said to me
in the last ten years that we've been together, you
don't spend enough time with me. It's because she knows
who I am, she understands how I work, she knows
I make time, I am present when I'm there. But
she gets me, like she really gets me, and she
got me when we got together. Yes, I was very
not successful when we met, but she gets me and
she's seen that energy grow and so she loves the time.

(37:48):
And by the way, I don't say the same to
her either, as she never hears from me like you
don't spend enough time with me, or you're not around
if she's busy and she has to move. Did you
know that when you met Camille? How did you set
that up? How did that become real? How do you
get to know you that well? Because I feel like
for a lot of people, the way you work, the
way I work, the way certain people work, it would
be unbearable and it would be a deal breaker. But

(38:10):
then it's really hard to also have an amazing life
and build everything you want to build. Right, It's so,
how did you I'm just intrigued as to how you
had that conversation early days.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, I'm not sure if we had the conversation and
it kind of just grew into what it is. I
think the same thing for Camille or my older daughter Kylie,
they would both say they wish that I were more available,
more present, but they also respect and learn from my
work ethic and what I do, and I think you
know it kind of works itself out in the end.

(38:38):
But you know, different than you I do here for
both Kamie and Kylie. You know you don't have enough
time for me. You're not available enough, And sometimes that's
a really good pridecy, like Okay, you know, put your
phone down and turn the ringer off for half an hour.
You know you don't always need to grab every call.
And you know what my older daughter would always say
to me, Kylie is like that, it's always somebody important,

(39:00):
your oldest daughter, and Kamille would say to me, you
know it's me, like just let it go for a
little bit. So they actually help me whatever little balance
I have I think I get from Camille and Kylie.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
I loved what you said, Like, you know, sometimes they
say I need more time, but they also respect me.
How do you reconcile that kind of dad guild that
could come with that? Or and a lot of I'm
not a father yet, but a lot of my friends
you are. They'll say it's so painful watching your little girl.
My friends who have little girls will say, it's so
painful watching your little girls. Say, Daddy, just stay at

(39:29):
home with me today, right, Like, how are you, how
do you reconcile like this is good for them to
see me work hard and I know when to like
put my phone down, But how do you how do
you make sense with you?

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah? Well, the good thing is my three year old
and one year old have grown up with me like this,
so and so did Kylie. By the way, they've all
seen that work ethic. Look, Kylie, as everyone knows, my
seventeen year old is with me, you know, all the time.
She travels with me all the time. She's actually on
a plane right now, she's about to land here in
a few hours. So you know, you know, she's with
me a lot. She's got a great you know, Kylie
and Camil have a great relationship that they may have

(39:58):
a support group you know together for the two of them. Again,
it's me. Every family's different, every person's different, and everyone
needs to do what works for them. And I think
I do what works for me, and they do it
works for them, and I think they appreciate it. I
also know to be there when it really matters, and
so for me, Kylie went through an experience earlier this
year and she called me and had to do with college.
She's like cursing me out. She's like, like I need

(40:19):
you to help me figure this out right now. And
it's about like get you good because Kylie's much smarter
than me, but she's not, Like you know, she goes
to the toughest school in Philadelphia, and she like she
wanted like some help with certain things, and like I
had to call around and figure out how to do
that and learn and pull the layers back and ultimately
figure out together. It's like when it really matters, like
I'm always there and I'm good at figuring out what
matters and what doesn't. And so I think that could

(40:40):
be a superpower I have, which is how to prioritize.
I am good at figuring out when am I really needed?
When do I need to, like, you know, lock in
and focus. It could be locking and focused on a
really important business deal. It could be locking and focused
on a really important moment for Camille or for Kylie.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, what what your daughters do for you? My sister
does for me. She'd be like, stop being Jay shtty,
just be my brother. Like you know, it's like that
feeling of like stop giving me that advice, just be
my brother, and like yeah, yeah, I get that from.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Both of them all the time. My three year old
romy I'm sure be giving me that's like within a
year at time.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
And it's the best feeling, right. It's such a beautiful
feeling because you know someone loves you and wants you
to just be there for them.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's getting those moments which you can really appreciate, so
you know, I try to try to get them when
I can.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, and Michael, that's what I'm trying to do on
this podcast here. You know, I don't have a I
don't think there is an ideal way to live. I
don't think there is a perfect way to approach your problems.
I think that what I like to do is I
like to introduce people. This is kind of my whole
hypothesis in life. If I can introduce people to as
many diverse people as possible that have all in their

(41:41):
own way, found purpose, impact and success, then people actually
have a chance of saying, I like what they're saying,
I'm going to run with that, or actually, you know what,
I never thought about it like that because I find
when I was growing up we're all exposed to the
same set of people and the same set of ideas,
and it was so hard to break that and it
was only for me, obviously, my personal journey. When I

(42:01):
met a monk at eighteen, I didn't know what monks were.
I didn't care what monks were. I had no interest
in anything spiritual. If I had never met a monk,
I would never have gone down the path of life.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I did.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
And so I'm always asking people who's your monk? And
for some people, the monk will be you. And what
I mean by that is they're going to get introduced
to you and go, yeah, that's how I want to
live my life. That resonates with me. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
It makes complete sense. I'm a huge believer in it,
and I have Look, if you'd say what's the most
unique thing about me, it's probably the diversification of the
people around me. And I think I've built that boocause
it's right for me because I'm learning from all these
people around me. And so I've got this person actually
a person owns a local hobby shop and it keeps

(42:43):
up sending me these really long text messages and I
actually keep meeting the sending back a voice and just say, hey, man,
I actually appreciate your input. But I don't I barely read,
Like I'm not that literate, Like you're left and I'm
dead serious, Like I haven't read a book since ninth grade.
The last book I read was in ninth grade. I
read The Swish, the story about I don't know the
story about pil Nate's the last time I read a book. Okay,
So I'm not a good reader. I'm pretty dyslexic. Okay,

(43:05):
So like the way I learned is by it like
quick conversations. You know, you want me to recently, send
me three lines and I'm actually gonna read it. You
send me three paragraphs. I'm already I'm tuned out before
I start. So it's like, that's what I'm saying. We
all got to learn from each other what works for
each other. And that's you know what makes me.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Me absolutely Michael, You've been amazing. We end every episode
with a final five. You'll like this. Each question has
to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum,
so it goes to the ligned with what you just said. So,
Michael Rubin DIZI your final five question one is what
is the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Don't be afraid to fail, because because if you're afraid
to fail, you're never gonna take the shot. Like, how
do you want to be an entrepreneur? You're sitting there
and you're trying to figure out, like should I do
this or not? Like you got to go for it.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever
heard or received?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Do it for the money?

Speaker 1 (43:54):
All right? Question number three? What's something you're currently trying
to learn maybe in busines this or in life. Something
you're working on.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
How to do what's best for the consumer in everything
that we do, Like just complete consumer focus. I didn't
grow up as a complete consumer person, So I think
there's things if I look at parts of Finax where
we're not good enough, we haven't been good enough, I'd
say it's some session with the consumer.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, that's what I always loved about I still love
it today. Like when I grew up, I remember the
first time my parents took me to Disney World and
I was just like, everything about this place is like
perfectly organized for me to have the best time of
my life. Yeah, And it's insane how much detail you
can put into someone's experience.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Yeah, I think we got our business model, right, Everything
I do has to be about the consumer. To win
in a consumer business, it has to be about consumer
person and everything you do. That's something that I've that
I'm really it's the biggest thing I'm focused on right now.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful, all right. Question number four,
how would you define your current purpose with your impact work?

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Real change? Like to make real change, not like so
many people who make impact work they write, First of all,
rating check is easy, okay, if you have money, rating
check is easily. Don't think because you give money away
that you're making a difference, like go do the work, okay,
But making real change like measure the results. Treat like
a business, not like you know, a charity. Like we
don't want to run the Reform Alliance like a charity.
We run around like a business. We business results.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Beautiful. Fifth and final question re else this to every
guest who's ever been on the show.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
If you could.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Create one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
what would it be comp.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Be president after sixty five I want the president of
the United States to be an animal from a work
at the perspective. I want them to be on their
a game. I want to make sure that they're maniacal
about the country the way I'm maniacal about my business.
One law to go in place, Max, you can't be
elected to become president after sixty five years old.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Michael Rubin, Everyone, if you've been listening and watching, make
sure that you cut the clips for TikTok and Instagram
that related to you, insights that you loved, share them.
I love knowing one of the lessons. You'll take it away.
What are you practicing, what are you implementing and putting
into your life. I think everyone just called the best
pep talk that they need for right now in their life.
This is going to get you to those big goals.
Listen to this episode, share it with your friends, share

(46:04):
it with your family. I'm sure someone just needs a
train to come run through their mind and break through
all of the barriers that they've set up. I think
Michael's that train. Michael, thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
So, by the way, disagree with us, you don't agree?

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Bye?

Speaker 2 (46:16):
When you disagree with me?

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Yeah, totally, of course. If you disagree with us, you
can tell us too. You'll do that anyway. I don't
need to ask for that. Thanks for having me a
blessed Thank you, Michael, such a blast. I appreciate you, man,
and thank you for being so. What I appreciate about
you is your clarity, your commitment to that clarity, and
that you're still open and available to learn. I think
that curiosity, that's what I see in you. It's like

(46:38):
complete clarity, complete commitment to who you are, and then
still being curious. That's a deadly combination.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
So thank you. Well well said, try to preach it
and do it every day. Thank you man.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
If you love this episode, you will love my interview
with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive
to find your purpose.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
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to tell them how the behaviorsus teaching them how to behavior.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Michael Rubin: The One Mindset Shift You Need to Set Better Goals & See Patterns Before Your Competition