Nessa Barrett ON: How to Overcome Loneliness & 8 Ways to Heal From a Breakup

Do you find yourself held back by fear and uncertainty?

Are you struggling with the challenges of being on your own in today's world?

If it's a yes, then you have found the right spot.

I am so happy to welcome my guest for today, Nessa Barrett. After being named as one of Billboard’s “21 Under 21” twice and People Magazine’s “Emerging Artist List” — Nessa Barrett has gone on to accumulate more than 1.4 billion global streams to date.  

Nessa opens up about her current struggle with loneliness, mental health, and the damaging effects of societal perceptions. We will hear her deep thoughts and meaningful words about navigating difficult breakups, recovering from codependency, and finding self-love amidst self-criticism. We will uncover the transformative power of love, both for ourselves and others. 

Through our thought-provoking discussions and her inspiring stories, Nessa continues to explore the healing potential of music, the significance of connection and support, and the transformative act of creating a burn box.

In this conversation with Nessa Barrett, you will learn:

How to deal with fear, uncertainty, and doubt

The importance of having the right people and proper support

How to be more self-aware when feeling alone

How to push forward when you're mentally drained

Bring awareness to eating disorders and other metal health issues

The power of self-love and promote self value

How to stop being too critical towards yourself  

Together, we will empower you to embrace your journey, cultivate self-love, and find strength in vulnerability. 

With Love and Gratitude,

Jay Shetty

What We Discuss:

00:00 Intro

00:16 These days, what makes being a teenager so hard? What makes it difficult to be young today?

02:35 How do you keep going when fear is shackling you?

05:25 How do you turn struggles, not fitting in, and bullying into your motivation to become better?

07:24 Is it possible to reconnect with your parents even after the familial ties are broken?

09:42 Loneliness is a battle we all struggle with, and not many people see how you’re struggling with it

12:49 Would you rather get stressed from challenges and issues of doing something you love to do, then get stressed over something that’s making you unhappy?

14:25 Mental health struggles are real and personal, and not everyone is able to deal with it in a positive light

22:11 The damaging effects of the common perception towards people with an eating disorder

28:50 What is difference between a public and private breakup

33:01 How did you come up with the eight stages of a breakup?

34:20 What’s the hardest stage of going through a difficult breakup?

36:28 How do you recover from codependency when your relationship ends?

38:09 Love is such a strong feeling and it stays with you even after you’re not with that person

40:24 Loving yourself first is an act we often overlook and this is why we all need to practice acts of self-love more often

43:54 We are the worst critics of ourselves, so how do we find things that could make us love ourselves more?

48:03 What is a burn box? How can you bond more with the people you connect with?

51:41 How do you use music to be the voice for the voiceless?

54:36 Why do we need to be vocal, honest, open, and vulnerable to the people that give us support?

58:40 Nessa on Final Five

Episode Resources:

Nessa Barrett | Instagram

Nessa Barrett | YouTube

Nessa Barrett | TikTok

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The word healthy to everyone is a great word. Everyone
wants to be healthy. But for me, when someone says
that I work healthy, it makes me want to spiral.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
The best selling authoring post the number one healthy wellness
podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Everyone, welcome back to
On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in
the world. Thanks to each and every one of you
that come back every week to become happier, healthier and
more healed. And it's been an incredible journey this year.

(00:29):
So far. We've had some phenomenal guests, so many different backgrounds,
so many different walks of life. And today's guest is
someone I'm really excited to have here. I've been looking
forward to this interview for a long long time. I'm
sitting down today with the one and only Neessa Barrett,
a singer and songwriter who's been named Billboard's twenty one
Under twenty one twice, as well as being featured on

(00:51):
Once to Watch list of twenty five artists to Watch
in twenty twenty two. From being an emerging artist to
being an established incredible Todaynessa's gone on to accumulate more
than one point four billion global streams to date. And
her new EP is out now called Hell is a
Teenage Girl. Please, welcome to the show. Nessa barrett Essa,

(01:12):
thank you for.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Being here, Hell, thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
You have such a wonderful, warm, sweet energy. As soon
as you walked in, you were just disarming. It was wonderful.
Just I really appreciate that. Thank you, Thank you so much.
And I saw that it's going to be your birthday,
your twenty first birthday, in like less than three weeks.
Your new EP is titled Hell is a Teenage Girl. Yes,
how does it feel to be out of Hell?

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Oh? My god, it feels amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Honestly, when I think about it, I feel like sometimes
you're never fully away from hell in the bad moments,
but I'm getting there slowly. I feel like healing is
like a really long journey. But yeah, I mean getting
out of the hell that I was in the past
feels great.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
What do you think it is about teenage life? Because
that statement hell is a teenage Girl is so iconic
and it's so powerful as well. And I think we
underestimate how hard being a teenager is, and as we
get older, I think we underestimate even more. But when
you're in that time, it can feel like everything matters,
nothing matters. It's quite chaotic. Walk us through for you,

(02:17):
like what makes being a teenager so hard or what
makes being young so difficult today?

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I know for me, my worst years were I mean
the last twenty that I've spent and most of them
were when I was a teenager. And I feel like
when you're still developing and you don't really have a.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Full sense of who you are yet.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
I mean, when you're a kid, you're taken you know,
and treated as a kid, and I feel like that's
hard as well, trying to grow up and find yourself
and be your own well, being influenced heavily by either
your parents or those that are around you and older
that are supposed to, you know, give you some guidance.
I feel like sometimes it gets tricky and you get misunderstood.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
I feel like it's not all sunshine and rainbow, you know,
when you're young. Everyone likes to talk about childhood like
it's this beautiful thing, but for me personally, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, I think I can relate to in so many
ways for myself. I think hell as a teenage boy too,
And I remember being like teacher's pet. Until age eleven,
I was really well behaved. I was a good son
all the rest of it, and then like from fourteen
to eighteen, I just went completely off the rails and
I was messing around, trying things, experimenting, doing stuff that

(03:27):
wouldn't make my parents proud. And it's really interesting because
it just came out of this need to want to
fit in, to be cool, to be relevant, to want
people to respect me, and you end up doing things
that are disrespectful to yourself for other people to like you.
And it's crazy. You just mentioned now though, that when
I asked you just before we started filming, you said

(03:50):
you actually ran away from home when you were seventeen. Yes,
what made you do that? Like? What did it take
for that to happen?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
So I feel like I've always had like this big ambition,
in this big dream in my head of what I
want to do as a career. You know, I always
dreamt about being in California, dreamt about being a singer,
you know, a huge artist, and that wasn't something that
was understood or at least, you know, seen as possible

(04:22):
in the town that I came from, and my family,
and it was right as COVID hit, and I knew
that I was either trapped and stuck there and forced
to have to go to college and you know, create
a life that I knew wasn't for me, or I
would just do it for myself. And you know, if
I didn't leave, then then I wouldn't be there like

(04:43):
here where I am now, and so it was really weird.
But yeah, I wasn't happy at home. I wasn't happy
in New Jersey, and I felt in my heart that
there was something that I had to do. And I
booked a flight at like one am that left for
like four am.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Knew that I was gonna run away, and.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
It was like this big chaos they had, Like the
cops come and it was like this whole thing, and
so they stole and they took all of my suitcases,
everything that I could use to leave, and so I
found I locked my door, and I found like all
of my old like school book bags and my soccer bags.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Because I used to play soccer.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
And I stuffed all of my things in like these
Duffel bags and like school bags, and I'm lugging around
like and I'm small. I'm like seventeen, like four foot eleven,
like lugging around these huge bags, and I got an
uber and.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, I got on the flight and I've been here since.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
So that's been nearly four years now. That's insane. I mean,
how did you, as a seventeen year old have the
confidence and courage to go, No, I'm going to go
all in on this. I'm gonna because that's you know,
I think a lot of young people today, a lot
of people listening, they want to take risks. Oh yeah,
they want to try things out, they want to follow
their passion, they want to pursue something that's of theirs.

(06:00):
But I think most of us get talked out of it,
or the doubt and the fear creeps in in our
head of what if I don't make it, what if
it doesn't work out? What was it for you that
allowed you to say no, I'm actually going to have
the courage and the confidence at seventeen, I.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Still am not the type of person and I never
was to take a.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Risk like that. I struggle with.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Really bad anxiety, and I as a kid, like I
did everything that I was told, you know, I would
never I would follow the rules to a tee and
something like that was absolutely insane, and looking back on
it now, I feel like there was something out of
this world that kind of took like a toll on me.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Like it was a.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Pretty like I don't even know how to explain it,
but I just knew that I.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Had to and I was scared. I was terrified.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I remember I had there's no NonStop from Philly to
LA at that time, and so I stopped somewhere and
on like my connecting flight. I was freaking out, like
having a pin attack. But yeah, I just kept going.
But it was it was something that was very like
unlike me, and so I feel like I don't know
if it's like my higher power anything like that, and

(07:10):
I just knew that I was that was something that.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
I had to do.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
You know, how did you have the money?

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Thank God?

Speaker 1 (07:16):
So I before I was in La. I actually this
is like such a weird story, but I started off
on social media. I feel like a lot of people
know me as a social media person, even though that
wasn't something that I intended to be. I have social anxiety,

(07:39):
so I feel like me being a social media star
isn't something that you know fits the most with me,
and something that I would ever want to do. But
when social media like Instagram and TikTok became popular apps
when I was young, I never wanted to go on it.
And I remember being in high school, like during lunch,

(07:59):
and a bunch of my friends had it and they
made me make an account and post a video, and
I made one video and I happened to accumulate a
bunch of followers off of that without me even you know,
trying to be an influencer. I was just being a
random teenage girl posting as if any other girl would

(08:20):
on social media.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
And I gained a.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Lot of followers for that, and it was really cool
and it was awesome.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
And I had no money.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
No one in my family had money to just buy
a flight whenever they wanted, let alone live in California,
or be able to get into like a music studio,
you know. And so I honestly think I was truly
blessed with that opportunity, because I wouldn't still be able
to leave and do what I've always wanted to do
and like sing, if I couldn't have the money first
and even the audience. It allowed me to you know,

(08:50):
go to LA and to get in a studio, and
by the time I even had my first song out,
people already knew who I was.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
So that's incredible. That's incredible. What was your going backward?
If you could think of a couple of memories from
your childhood that you feel made you really find it
to be so tough for your teenage life to be
so challenging. What would those memories for you that you
think spurred this desire to leave and build your own
life and create and kind of follow that higher power?

(09:18):
As you said, what were those things that happened to
you specifically that you think were dark and hellish in
that sense?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Growing up, it was very hard for me to have friends.
I struggled a lot in school and with people my age.
You know, I was someone that was never really fit in,
someone no one really understood, left out of a lot of things,
bullied to an extent, And I feel like that also

(09:47):
drove me to want to become better. And I believed
my entire life just being a good person that will
pay off. I feel like luckily it did. But even
you know, my home life wasn't the best and seeing
my parents struggle with you know, financially and within themselves

(10:09):
and with each other. I feel like that really strove
me to want to have a better life than what
anyone in my family had.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
But it was really hard growing up.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
And I'm at a place now where I love my
parents so much, which came, you know, after a lot
of healing. But I just saw a lot, and I
just knew that I wanted to be better than what
I saw and I wanted to do better. And also too,
it's like where I'm from. I'm from a small town,
a nine to five job and going to college, and

(10:42):
that wasn't something that was for me, something that I desired,
something that I was ever interested in. I remember junior year,
I got in trouble because I refused to apply to
any colleges. You know, I knew that I had to
do something different.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Was it you that rekindled your relationship with the parents
or was it then? Like, how did that come about?
Because that's really wonderful to hear when that can happen.
It's not possible for everyone, but yeah, how did that stop?

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Well, I've always had a rocky relationship with my parents,
but my mom, she's always my mom, and I loved
her dearly and I always will, and so we've always
had somewhat of a relationship, even when I ran away,
which at the time me and my parents, we were
not okay at all, which is why I ran away.
But yeah, I started doing hypnotherapy maybe a little over

(11:31):
a year ago, if not a year ago, and that
has been the one thing that has truly been life
changing and changed who I am as a person, because
the whole idea of it is that it reaches down
in your subconscious and that's where all of your trauma
is stored, you know, even things that you don't remember.
And we worked through everything that has affected me to

(11:53):
this day that I couldn't even tell you, you know,
that we were able to bring out.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
And because of.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
That, I I've been able to talk to my dad
that I didn't for years and haven't since I ran away.
I recently just visited them and went home for the
first time last week for the July. I saw my
little brother that I haven't even met yet because he
was born a year ago. It's been really good. I
feel like because of how I grew up and because
of my childhood, I've been very independent and I've been

(12:21):
that type of person that was like I'm going to
do everything myself and I don't need anyone. I never
needed anyone, but you know, coming out here by myself
at seventeen, being in this industry and having to do
a lot, which does put a toll on you mentally
and physically, and also seeing people that are doing the
same thing as me around my age having a family

(12:44):
with them. At a certain point, I kind of realized
how much family is important, no matter what you know,
no matter how bad things have gotten in the past,
family still family. And I've kind of prioritized that recently,
and I mean, I wouldn't be able to do it
with therapy, but it's been really nice to have a

(13:05):
relationship that I now have that I probably never had
with them my entire life.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, and it's so
so wonderful to hear that you've been able to reconnect
in that way. What do you think has been the
hardest thing about coming out here on your own figuring
it out, Like, what's been the biggest challenge with Hollywood,
the music industry, this industry, as you mentioned, Like, what's
been the most difficult obstacle that you think you've had

(13:31):
to face.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
I think loneliness.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
It's so weird how I would assume that some people,
you know, that see me and see all that I've
accomplished and all the people that listen to my music
and follow me, they would think that that's something that
I wouldn't struggle with. But it kind of makes me
feel lonelier in a way. When I go on tour

(13:55):
per se and I perform in front of thousands of people,
and I get off stage and I go back into
a hotel room by myself, There's not a single thing
that could explain how empty and lonely that feels, you know,
being in front of so many people that love you

(14:16):
and that you're connecting with through music and then just
going back to have absolutely no one, you know, no
one to talk to about it. Yeah, it's sad, and
I deal with things daily, you know, all the time,
and sometimes I don't have the people that I can
just you know, call, like my mom. You know, I
can't just have my mom that comes here and she

(14:36):
can like tell me everything's going to be okay.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
And it does get scary.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
And I feel like I've always been very mature for
my age, but since being here, I've matured a lot,
having to deal with certain things in the industry, but
still at the same time, I feel like I'm still
a kid at heart.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
You know.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I just am only about turn twenty one, which is
crazy to think about. But I don't know, I feel
like loneliness is some that I struggle with, and it's
very hard, especially in LA and Hollywood in the industry,
to find the right people that you can really trust
and count on. I feel like I'm even lucky enough

(15:14):
to say that I found like probably four, you know,
the entire time I've been here, But you never know
what people's intentions are, and not everyone has the same
heart as you, which I feel like I struggle with
as well.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, it's so interesting how artists, I feel for years
have struggled with being on the road alone. And this
year I got a glimpse for my first time because
I just went on a world tour. I'd never done
it before. I'm obviously a lot older than you, and
I was traveling from February first till up about up
until about two three weeks ago when I got home,

(15:49):
and that was the longest I've ever been on the road,
and I just sat there and just thought about all
my clients or friends that I have, we are musicians
and people that I work with, and I was just
sitting there thinking about how hard this would be if
I started doing this when I was fifteen or sixteen
or seventeen or twenty. And I can totally see why
it's so challenging, But it feels like no one's really

(16:12):
found a way to make it easier, which is why
you still see artists after all this time canceling tours
and announcing that they need a break. And it's do
you now see that as natural that it is hard
or do you sometimes still sometimes fall into the trap
of like, oh, it's a weakness or it's something about you,

(16:33):
or are you able to accept that this is just hard
to do, because I think some people kind of go
back and forth. They feel guilty that they find it
that challenging.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
I mean, I feel like it has to be hard.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
With all the amazing things that I've been blessed with
doing what I do, like, there has to be things
that have to be difficult, you know, And I don't mind,
you know, struggling, because it gives me something to talk about,
to write about.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
I mean, that's the whole.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
That's what my whole music and everything that I'm about
is focused on, is you know, the things that I
struggle with, and I talk about them so that I
can help people in a way. It's hard, but I
feel like i'd rather deal with this, you know, and
the struggles that come with this, then you know, having
to do something that I don't love and you know,

(17:19):
be unhappy with my life.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
I think that's a great mindset. That's incredible that you've
been able to grasp that idea so young. I think
that idea and I just want to repeat it for
everyone who's listening because it's really powerful. You just said
that the life you've chosen, it comes with stresses and
challenges and issues, but you'd rather choose that life because
it connects you to something you love than the other life,

(17:41):
which sometimes we think like there's a path that has
stress and there's a path that won't have any and
that's just not true, Like both of them have it.
Whether you follow your dreams or you don't follow your dreams,
there'll be stressed on both parts, and it's about choosing
which one you'd rather have. So it's incredible that you've
grasped that idea. I know that you struggle with an
ERECTIONI in the past, and then you had a relapse

(18:03):
during your tour as well, and I can't imagine just
how challenging that is during a tour to have that
experience again. Can you walk us through your relationship with
it and how you've been able to try and navigate
it and still continue to pour out into your music
and connect with your fans. And you show up today

(18:24):
to talk about your experience. It's not easy to do that.
How have you done that?

Speaker 1 (18:30):
I talk a lot about mental health because that's been
something that I've struggled with since I was six and
my entire life I've never really known or had a
figure that has made me feel like I'm understood and
not alone when it comes to things like that, And
I feel like, fortunately now it's not as taboo as

(18:51):
it's always been. But I feel like for the past
almost two years now, in arexia has been one of
my biggest mental health struggles, and I have made a
song about it before, but I made that song when
I was recovered at the time, so I wasn't dealing

(19:13):
with it as hard. But an eating disorder is something
that's very personal and very hard to even articulate yourself
because it takes over your mind and it's very different
for everyone else. And sometimes I shy away from talking

(19:33):
about it because I'm either embarrassed or I don't want
to admit that I'm struggling at the time because it's
a very toxic disorder, or it's very hard to talk
about it and not be triggering to others, which gets difficult,
and I still deal with it pretty bad to this day.

(19:57):
I've been in talks about, you know, getting treatment and
hopefully seeing someone and finally getting help, because as much
as I try to take time to focus on mental health,
when you really need intensive treatment for something and you know,
to go away for three weeks, it's not that easy
when you're trying to write an album, you know, and tour.

(20:19):
Dealing with it on the road, though, was pretty hard.
When I'm at home in La I live by myself,
and the only time I don't go out, you know,
I don't really I'm not that much of a social person,
so the only time I leave my house is when
I go to the studio and I make music.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
So being alone, I.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Feel like it's it's hard to struggle with inarexia, but
it's easier because I'm alone and I don't have to,
you know, deal with anyone around me or any triggers
and things like that. But being on tour, you know,
constantly being around a group of people where it is
normal for people to eat, that's a thing that has

(20:58):
to be done, you know, order to live. So to
be around people that are actually that don't struggle with
it and are taking care of their bodies and that
don't have to deal with body image. And then me
also having to get on stage in front of people
every night where it's like people are there to see me,

(21:19):
not only like the people that come to my shows,
but everyone else gets to see them because people post videos.
You know, there's pictures and videos taken at every angle.
And no matter how much I feel safe and at
home on stage, you know, performing my songs and being
with everyone that relates to them, in the back of

(21:39):
my head when I'm struggling with my interrexta, all I
can think about is how insecure I am and how
I might look and what people might say or think.
And I've had a lot of pretty dark breakdown moments
before stage where I couldn't even see how I could

(22:00):
get on because I couldn't even figure out what to where,
you know, that would make me feel comfortable. And when
you're on the road for how many weeks or months,
you don't have a huge option to you know, to
wear whatever you want, like your stage outfits are your
stage outfits. The biggest struggle, I think is just the

(22:22):
physicality part of it. Scientifically, to be able to get
on stage and have the energy to perform for you know,
over an.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Hour every night.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
You have to have energy, and energy comes with eating
and food. And that was something that I struggled with
because touring and you know, my music and all this
is so important to me and it's really hard to
not let my eating disorder get in the way of that.

(22:54):
And so I would have to no matter how hard
it was, but try and sit is however long it
takes me and force myself to eat. That way, I could,
you know, get up on stage the next night without
being too tired or god forbid, passing out and you know,
not having the energy that they came for, you know,

(23:14):
because that's what it's important. And mentally too, It's like
when I'm at a really low point and struggling and
not eating for a while. I'm not my best self,
you know, I'm not giving off that energy that makes
people feel good around me, and I think that's kind
of the saddest part about it. You know, I want
to be my best self always, and so it's hard

(23:37):
trying to find a balance, you know, and figuring out
ways to help you but also not make things harder,
because the recovery process with inarexxia is probably the hardest
thing that I've ever dealt with my entire life. Like
I've been through intensive I'm a therapy with hypno for

(24:03):
my BPD, but you know, just trying to figure out
how to have a comfortable relationship with food itself is
something that has been one of the hardest and scariest
things that I've ever done my entire twenty years of living.
Which is hard to also do that, you know, during
this time of my life.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, thank you for being so vulnerable and open. I
really appreciate it, because you know, that's what I'm trying
to create here is a safe space where people can
actually be seen and heard yourself, and then everyone who's listening,
who's either struggling with something similar or may love someone
who's going through something like this. I can definitely testify
that getting on stage without a eating disorder is hard

(24:47):
enough in and of itself, and so having that extra
layer of worrying and being concerned and even the energy,
as you were saying about even having the energy to perform.
I remember just before I was go on stage, like
being present. I remember how much presence I needed. I
also sleep really early, so to go on to stage
at eight pm, I'm like, it's coming over my bedtime

(25:08):
in two hours. Like, how am I going to stay
up without pumping my body with sugar or anything else?
I want to stay up naturally, and that's without any
of the stuff you're having to think about. So I'm
just empathizing and listening into what that challenge looks like.
What would you like people to know about anorexia so
that they're aware, because I feel that a lot of

(25:29):
the times these terms get normalized and we hear them everywhere,
but then we kind of become desensitized to it, and
people aren't necessarily aware of how to deal with their
friend who's going through it, or sometimes someone's kids going
through it. From your experience, not as like it's the
same experience for everyone, because we know it's not from
your experience. What do you think it's good for people
to know if someone they love or someone they know

(25:52):
is going through something like this or they think they
might be, what would be useful for them.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I think the first and biggest thing is that not
only with just anorexia, but with all eating disorders, it
looks different on everyone. There's not a look to it,
and I feel like it's so damaging when there's a
common idea or image, you know, of how someone that
is innorexic should look or how someone that struggles with
an eating disorder should look, and they kind of, you know,

(26:21):
take that as to how sick they are, which, uh,
that doesn't matter at all. And I also feel like
it's something that you know, but just it's impossible to
understand something like inarexxia if you have not gone through
it before.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Because I mean to.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Even with me just saying what I struggle without loud,
and the whole idea of that me being obsessive and
scared over food and obsessive with calories and terrifiedive weight.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Gain and a control thing, and all the.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Things that I allow myself to believe, which they're all lies,
and how my brain processes things and all that stuff.
I know that it's not real, and I know that
it's all lies, you know, and I know it's absolutely delusional,
but that's still that's the disorder, that's what happens. And

(27:18):
so when you don't struggle with that, you don't understand that,
you know. So I have a lot of people that
you know, I've told me before, you know, just eat,
you know, or like people will say things that they
think will help, but that's not that's not the issue,
you know. I think most importantly is just to you know,

(27:38):
with any mental health disorder or anything like that, just
the best thing to do for someone is to just
give them love and support. Sometimes it's best not to
try too hard to give advice or to say things
that you think are going to help, because there are

(27:58):
some things that you know, you know, might seem helpful
and that you might have good intentions by saying, but
it might trigger someone you know, it's dealing with it.
For example, I know for me, and I feel like
it might be a common thing for a lot of
people that struggle with Inorexiah, the word healthy to everyone
is a great word, you know, it's a positive word.

(28:20):
Everyone wants to be healthy. But for me, when someone
says that I look healthy, it makes me want to spiral,
you know, it makes me go crazy because that's not
a word that you know, healthy to me, I associate
with something that you know is not the best because unfortunately,
in my brain, being called sick is something that, in

(28:43):
a terrible and ugly way is something that comforts me
more than the word healthy, which little things like that,
I feel like is important for people to know that
want to be there for someone that don't you know, understand,
it's like, just have to be wise and not walk
on shelves, but just be more sympathetic and understanding of

(29:04):
what they could possibly be going through even though you
don't understand.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, something to this day that I still don't understand
or get or I kind of struggle with even coming
to terms with the fact that I deal with it,
because I am now at the point where I'm aware
of how unhealthy it is, but I still can't process,
you know, that it really isn't real because I still

(29:31):
have that eating disorder mind, you know. But yeah, I
think just being supportive and loving and dealing with it
with grace and patience. I feel like that's a big thing.
Everyone wants who they love to be better and the
best that they can be and healthy and to get

(29:52):
help when they need it. But I think sometimes people
forget the fact that getting help and recover is something
that's very linear. I'm not linear. It's a long process,
you know, and it takes time and something like this.
I mean I've been rushed into recovery before, which led
me into a pretty terrible relapse.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
You know, it takes time.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
So you just have to be patient with people that
are struggling and just give them as much love as
you can. I feel like love goes a long way.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah. Well, I think for what it's worth, your awareness
and how eloquent you are in explaining at least what
you're experiencing is really admirable. Honestly, Like just hearing you
talk about it and reflect on it. Your awareness is
so high, which is an incredible step in your journey.

(30:42):
And I think the advice you gave or the insight
you gave is really useful because I think when we
love someone, we think we have to solve their problems,
and we think we have to say the perfect thing,
and we think we can fix it, and you're so
right that actually what we need to do is be
patient and supportive and loving and kind and just be

(31:06):
there and we don't have to say the perfect thing,
and we don't have to have the perfect advice because
we don't know what it feels like. And I think
that that's really useful for people to hear, because we
think we're useless if we can't fix someone's problems and
we love them, and that person doesn't think you're useless.
That person actually prefers if they just know you're.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
There and you don't have.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
To have the solution. One thing I loved when our
teams first started talking about us setting down was your
eight Stages of a breakup, your new music. And I
wrote a book called Eight Rules of Love, and so
when that came up, I was like, how I wrote
a book about love this year, which is why I
was on tour, And you've wrote, you've written music, you know,

(31:50):
and I know on TikTok, I've been watching your videos
of each stage in each part, and I find that
you know, you've had two public breakups. It's never easy.
Could you walk us through what you find is different
between a public breakup and a private breakup because I
almost feel like we don't really grasp that again until
you've lived it. Oh and I'm guessing you had breakups

(32:12):
previously that were not public. Potentially the difference is, like,
what do you notice?

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Breakups in general just absolutely the worst. Yeah, hard, even
though I feel like they are very critical experiences that
you have to go through in life in order to grow,
they suck. But a public breakup, man, I it's just
the fact that it's not you know, just your close

(32:40):
relatives and friends that know about you and your relationship.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
It's probably millions of people that have kept up to.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Date with you know, your relationship, and I've been so
invested and very like fixated on it. And even when
it comes to the media today, anything that happens, even
when it's not a breakup drama is entertainment.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
You know.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
People love to talk, people love to speculate, and so
dealing with public breakups, I feel like all the drama
that has to come with it, which I feel like
is very unnecessary and causes a lot more pain and
hurt to the people that are actually going through it.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
You know, that doesn't help.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
But it's like when I'm dealing with the grief of
a relationship and losing someone that I loved so dearly,
and then also on top of that, having to do
with hundreds of thousands of people talking about it as well,
saying things that aren't true, you know, saying things that

(33:45):
are hurtful, putting their two cents in it, being very
insensitive towards the whole thing, you know, not really understanding
because people don't understand that, you know, people in the
public I could possibly be, you know, actually human with
actual lives and like emotions when they see whatever, you know,

(34:09):
I let them on to see because I, you know,
am like a public figure. I feel like they kind
of take that as oh, this is that's her life,
you know, that's all that they are but buying closed doors.
It's like, I'm I deal with it, you know, the
depth of life as just as anyone else would. And
so a relationship and a breakup for me is just

(34:31):
as real as love is for anyone else, and I
feel like.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
People forget that.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
So I feel like that's hard with having to deal
with everyone's opinions and comments and all the stuff that
comes with that. But as well as NonStop, constantly seeing
you know, pictures or videos and videos like you know,
just anything about me and my past relationship and like

(34:56):
all of that stuff. I feel like when you know,
growing up in high school, when I first had my
boyfriend and everyone started getting in like relationships, like it
was like a rule, Like when you break up with someone,
like you delete their number, like you on follow them
on Instagram, Like you don't look at them, you don't
talk to them, like you don't hang out with them.
Like it's like a out of sight, out of mind
type thing. You know, it helps you get You need

(35:17):
that period where it's like they're gone, you know, and
you can get over them easier. Well, like it's impossible
for me. It's everywhere, and so I feel like that's hard,
you know, that constantly being brought up. I mean, how
could you expect anyone to properly move on and get
over a relationship that was so deep and intense when

(35:38):
it's constantly talked about, constantly brought up in my life,
it's hard not to mention.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
I have a song with one of my.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Exes, which is, uh, you know, it's just it's kind
of it's so different.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
It's it's so different.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
And yeah, I feel like a you know, regular breakup
through having to deal with a breakup with the public
is always going to be hard, and you know they're
both hard, but I feel like having the media evolved
is one hundred percent a lot more difficult.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, how did you come up with the eight stages
of a breakup?

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (36:15):
My god, this is so funny. But I was listening to.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
So a lot of the times, I'm very intentional and
I'm very thought out when it comes to every little
thing that I do, especially with music. But this, this
whole eight stages of a heartbreak and breakup thing actually
came after it was done. I was listening from top

(36:41):
to bottom through my entire EP after it was mixed
and mastered, and I was kind of like, you know what,
this is kind of like going through like all eight
stages of a breakup. So I was like, instead of
the seven stages of grief, like, this is like eight stages,
because there's eight songs of a breakup and the grief
of a relationship. And I was with my Dean and

(37:04):
They're like, whoa, it's kind of it's kind of cool,
and I was like yeah, And so it all makes sense.
Sometimes I plant things out before. Sometimes things just magically
fall into place and make sense after.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
But yeah, I love it. I love it. I think
I think when we start recognizing their stages and phases
to anything, oh yeah, it helps us so much as humans,
where we realize it's not just one big thing, the
exactly changes in how we feel. What's the what have
you found to be the hardest stage in a breakup
for you personally? Or like, what's what's the stage that

(37:38):
you find the most challenging.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I feel like they're all really hard, but I feel
like the one I think that I call this one
the desperate stage, and I just made a video about
it because I have a song called Motel Whore, and
I was like, this one represents the desperate stage of
a breakup, and it's it's kind of like that bargaining
stage where you just try and do whatever you can

(38:00):
to get that person back in your life, no matter
what costs.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
And like however you can.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
So yeah, it's when like you break up with them
and then you're at the point where it's like you
just want them in your life that you're willing to
do whatever it is to keep them in your life somehow,
even though it hurts you because you know the way
that you want them in your life is the way
that you have them before in that relationship, but now
it's like it's not that, and so you kind of

(38:27):
end up hurting yourself more because you're you know, putting
yourself back in that place, but also knowing that like
you're gonna end up leaving heartbroken again because it's.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
A lot harder when you.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Know, you try and be with that person, whether it's
like friends or just like cooking up or any of
that stuff, when there's like actual real love and connection
on your part still, but it's like and you try
to convince yourself like, oh, like this is going to
get them back, like our relationship is going to be
like you know how it was before, but it doesn't happen,
and then it crushes you even more. I feel like

(39:00):
that's the hardest stage, when you just become very desperate
for any ounce of attention that you can get from
that person, because it ends up.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Breaking your heart even more.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
You know you didn't you could skip that stage and
you know fully like lead on the path of healing
the way that you should. But I think that's like
the one stage where we kind of like trip up
the stairs and oh god, yeah we made it harder
for ourselves.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, that's well said. I can agree more that that
really resonates because I think we're living in that dream
of like what it could have been and what it
should be and like they must love me, and it's
I'm going to get it back and I'm going to
win them over, And I mean we waste so much
time in that. What do you think is like the
longest stage? What stage do you think and you spend
the most time in when you break up with someone

(39:45):
where you just like so much energy gets sucked out
in being lost at a stage.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Trying to recover from the codependency part, because I mean
when you're in a relationship, I know, I get so
codependent on someone. You know, that's the person that you
have always. You know, there's something that you go through,
like you have that one person that you can talk to,
cry to. They're always there for you. They become your comfort,

(40:14):
you know, that's your safe place. And then when the
relationship's over, it's like you don't have that, You're left
on your own. I feel like that was the longest
stage for me to get over because I was so
used to being so codependent on someone and you know,
having that comfort when it's all gone. Every time that
I dealt with something that was hard for me, every

(40:36):
time that I got upset, every time I felt alone,
I couldn't help but want and like crave that person
because I was used to having them during those times
and trying to escape from the codependency and learning how
to love yourself and enjoy your own company and even
just like coming to terms with the fact that like

(40:58):
you can be that person for your you know, and
that you don't need anyone. I feel like that's the
longest process.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
You're You're so right, what helped you personally in both
those stages. So let's go back to the first stage,
that stage of like I'm desperate, I'll do anything to
get them back, Like you know, you said that was
the hardest stage, Like what helped you in your life
break through that stage? Because you're so right, It is
the hardest because it's the one where we have the

(41:27):
most hope, but it's false hope, and it's the one
where we also are living the most in dreamland in
our minds. So it's so hard when that picture crumbles. Yeah,
what have you done? What's really worked for you?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
I think therapy was a big thing for me, And
there was a moment where during that time where I
fully took the step to almost fully isolate myself, where
I was only focused on myself and my healing and
my music and things that made me happy. And I

(42:00):
spent that time really trying to figure out, you know,
who I am as a person and the things that
I love and the.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Things that helped me.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
And so it kind of like, you know, that like
point of relationship where like you start to like understand
and like know that like person that you're with, you know,
and you get closer with them.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
It's like that very beginning.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
It was kind of like I started to go through
that with myself, and so it kind of took me
away from having to, you know, really struggle with the
the breakup. I feel like you just got to fake
it until you make it and just force yourself. And
there's always gonna be days. I mean, like I thought,
there was like a day where I was like fine,

(42:42):
and then two seconds later I see something and I'm
bawling my eyes out, you know, and even like randomly,
like you know months later, I'm fully moved on, but
I'll still get sad over things because like love is
such a strong feeling that never goes away matter like
what happens or how things ended, and you know any

(43:04):
of that, Like if you ever had true love for
that person, you're always going to love them. It was
always hard, but I think the second that I really
started to prioritize myself and to really just like focus
on myself and fixate on that rather than how much
I missed that person, it helped.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, that's yeah, that's really I hope that's going to
help you. But I hope it sits with people, because
you're right, it's just almost like you've got to push through.
Sometimes it's not going to be easy, it's not going
to make sense. But when you're in that longest phase
and it's just getting drawn out, how do you even
keep hope and how do you even keep faith that
I can have love again and that I do deserve

(43:45):
to be loved. Because I think in that longest phase
is where a lot of people get so broken down
that they're like I'm not lovable. Yeah, I'm not likable,
I'm not worthy, I'm not attractive. I'm not smart what
it may be that that person made me feel. Now,
it's like I can't be all of those things because
it's that stage is drawn out so much that it

(44:08):
beats up your self esteem. Yeah that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
No, that was something that I struggled with for the
longest time. And I think that the more that you
keep yourself in that mindset like mindset, the hardest that
it's going to be to get out of that, because yeah,
of course, I mean like when you start kind of
like tearing yourself down and thinking about, you know how
difficult it is to find love again, that you won't

(44:35):
because no one's ever going to love you and all
that stuff and you're worthless and everything that comes with that.
It's going to keep you away from doing the proper
healing and to actually want to heal, because if you
have that mindset, then it's like what's the point of healing,
you know, and getting better. I realized I got to

(44:55):
a point where I was like, yeah, I'm never going
to fall in love again or no one's ever gonna
love me. And then it got to the point where
I was like, you know what, I don't care. I
don't care to ever have a relationship, Like, I'm fine
because every relationship, I mean, there's probably gonna be a
few trial and error ones until you find the person

(45:17):
that you like really end up being with, you know.
And so it's no guarantee that the next one that
I get like in a relationship with is going to
be the one which would you know, most likely end
up in a heartbreak that in that moment, I'm like,
I cannot afford to go through again, so I don't
even care to, you know, be in a relationship or
find love again. But then in therapy, I realize that

(45:39):
it's that's not going to change unless you love yourself.
I feel like loving yourself is like the biggest thing
and like the most important thing, and I feel like
everyone kind of neglects that because it's like it seems
like something that's just not like unnecessary, but we overlook
it because like we are, you know who we are,

(46:00):
and we give love to everyone around us because like
that's life, you know. But I feel like a lot
of the times we forget to look internally, and the
only way that you can give things to people is
if you already have it within you. And when I
realize that even if like I want to be in
a relationship and I want someone, I want to be

(46:21):
in love, I'm probably not capable to love someone as
best as I can because I can't even love myself
and I don't right now, and so yeah, I feel
like as soon as you just work on that self love,
that's when things start being easier, because then you also
get out of that mindset where you're like you don't
really need anyone, you know, and you couldn't be okay

(46:43):
with you know, not having to look you know and
constantly like think about wanting a relationship or like finding
that person to be with, and you can just like
spend you know, nights alone without having to cry about
it or wish that there was someone with you.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
But yeah, self love, I feel like, is the key.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
How do you find things or how have you found
things that you love about yourself? Because I think we
live in a society that makes us love ourselves because
other people love us. So it's like if someone thinks
you're attractive, then you think, oh, yeah, I'm attractive, this
is good. Or if someone thinks you're really smart, then
you're like, oh, yeah, they think i'm smart, so now
i'm smart. Like so much of our self value, weirdly

(47:28):
is placed on other people valuing us. How have you
found things to really love about yourself? Because I agree
with you fully, but how do you go that step
further to be like, I really love this about myself
even if no one else sees it.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
I could never understand the things that I could possibly
love about myself until the moment that I thought about
my younger self, because that's still me, you know. The
second that I started, you know, looking back on the
person that I used to be, and you know, even
like six year old me, I started to think about

(48:06):
all the things that she would be so happy and
proud of that I've done, you know today, That's when
I started to, you know, find things that I actually
could feel, you know, love for myself with and to
feel proud of myself for and all of those things.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
And then I don't know, and then sometimes you.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Just kind of have to dig a little bit deeper
because I feel like self love is a lot less
superficial than you know, any other love could possibly be,
and it has to be really deep because it's like,
you know who you are as a person to the
deepest core more than anyone else could more than you

(48:50):
can know other people in order to love them. So
I feel like that's why it's tricky for us to
love you like ourselves, because we know the ins and
outs of us and the worst parts of us and
the ugliest parts, and so we're worst critics.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
So I feel like that's the hardest thing.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
But yeah, when I thought about it, and I'm like, Okay, well,
I've been able to do the things that I did
which I never thought I was able to, Like, that's
something that I should be proud of, the things that
I've gone through that I never thought that I could
make it out of and my strength, Like that's something
that I should love myself for and just have compassion

(49:30):
for myself for, even just the fact that, like, at
the end of the day, no matter all the things
that I've been through and no matter like how bad
people have treated me, like the fact that I'm still
a good person and I still have a good heart
and I know that you know, more than anyone else could,

(49:51):
that's the reason why I should love myself, you know.
So I feel like it's just like little things, and
I feel like it's just very important to just like
sit down and really just like analyze yourself and to
you know, just take time to like understand you, which
I feel like is something that I just learned how

(50:11):
to do. But it's like, it's really nice.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Everyone is listening. I want you to take a screenshot
right now, and I want you to listen to that
part that Nessa just said again and again it again.
It can even put you to sleep, like it's so
brilliant because everything you just said that literally the last
thirty seconds. I promise you if you just listened to
the last thirty seconds again and again and again, the
point will become so clear because what you just said

(50:36):
sums up an idea that I really believe. And I
believe that self care comes from comfort, but self respect
comes from discomfort. And you just said that when you
look back at all the things you've been through and
all the things you survived and all the things you've done,
that's what makes you love yourself. And I believe that
everyone who's listening or watching today, they've all been through

(50:58):
hard things. Everyone's been through some sort of difficulty in
their life. There's still alive, they're still breathing, they've still
held onto their good heart, they're still a good person,
and that's what you really want to love yourself for.
And when you learn to love yourself for that, you
realize no one ever gave you that, and no one
can take it away, and it's yours. Whereas all the

(51:19):
other things they will come and go and people will
change their mind, but this is something that's forever yours.
And so you just summed it up really beautifully, and
I love the way you said it. I hope people will, honestly,
I mean that, just repeat it again and again, because
it's just rewiring our thoughts to be like, that's why
I'm valuable. I'm not valuable because of all these other
things that people are saying. One thing you do that

(51:41):
I love. You do a burn box on stage where
you get fans to write messages and then you burn them.
That is so cool. I love that. That is the
dopest thing I've ever heard of. I was like, you
need to do that my next show. Where did that
ritual come from? Walk me through? Did you used to
do that yourself? Was that something you invented for the community,

(52:04):
Like tell me where I came from? Because I love that?
When I was like, this is amazing.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Well, the thing about my music is that it's very
it's very deep and meaningful. And I talk a lot
about mental health, and I know that a lot of
the people that come to my shows are there because
they have struggled and they relate deeply to my songs.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
You know, it's not just.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I never want my shows and my tour to just
be a show where it's you know, just me playing
you know, their favorite songs.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Like I want this to be like.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Not like a therapy session, but like a healing, you know,
moment for everyone, Like a bonding moment, something that's really real,
something that they can walk away from and not only
just remember the music, but the feeling that they've gotten
from it. And I also wanted to do something that
was interactive and how full and healing the same way.

(53:02):
And I thought that doing a burn box could be
cool and it was also kind of the easiest thing
that we could you know, execute for my show, like
at the time, but I mean, like, what better like
interactive thing to do, like on stage than to have
you know, a bunch of my fans that are coming

(53:23):
to the show and write on a little piece of
paper things that they're struggling with. They want to let
go of get off their chest and just like let
you know, just not bottle up anymore and just like
get off their chests, write it down, anonymously, put it
in this burn box, and then watch it being burned
on stage.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
I feel like that there's something so powerful about that,
and I'm so glad that we did it because it
was it was you know, most of their like favorite
parts of the entire show, and it's helped a lot
of people and even like I've seen like people in
the crowd that cry before a while I'm burning it,

(54:01):
and it's just like that's what like makes that's what
makes my day, and that's what motivates me to you know,
even do the show and to like do what I'm
doing now, because like that's the reason why I'm doing it,
and it's so pure and heartwarming just to see like
how something like that, you know, that I thought could

(54:21):
be like a little fun, like could actually like affect
them like on a deep level.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
But yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Well, I mean it seems like all your music and
all the work you're doing is so healing focused. It
seems like you're doing so much self healing. It seems
like the work you want your community to do is healing.
I think it's I mean, I think it's a genius
idea to do on stage. It's I think it's such
a beautiful thing to have rituals that communities your audience
can come and do together. And I can only imagine
the incredible experience people are having. You said that was

(54:50):
the easiest thing you could do at this stage. What's
like the craziest thing you want to do that you
think would be super healing for everyone? You have like
a vision for it, you don't have.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I just wonder something like I've had like some like
pretty crazy ideas.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Let me try and think.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
I just want to do like a lot like I
know that there's like certain songs that, like I've I
love to just like be able to get certain people
from the crowd that really resonate or struggling with something
that has to do with that song and like bring
them up and you know, have a moment with them.
I would also love like a point where I, you know,

(55:31):
ever have like a big enough show where I can
like actually have you know, some my fans you know,
tell their stories, because I think it's just as important
for me to have a voice as it is for them,
you know, because I've said this before, It's like I
kind of use my music to be the voice for
the voiceless. And so when I get to a point
where I can do whatever the heck I want on stage,

(55:55):
like I want to give them their voice, you know,
I want them to have the mic and I want
them to say what i've they feel they need to.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
I feel like there's so many like cool things to do,
but the brin box is just like so awesome. And
it also was like very disappointing for some venues that
I couldn't do it in because it.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Was a safety hazard.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
But yeah, and also the fire, I think fire is
fun too.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
No.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
I love the interactive element. Even in my show, we
did a ton of interactive stuff. I set people up
on first dates on stage. I love I had what
else did we do? I locked people in the caves
for fifteen minutes. They had spend time alone without their phone.
Oh my god, we were doing this all on stage.
And I love that interactive element because I agree with
you completely that people need to feel and experience this.

(56:40):
It's not just like some idea and you're right, that
people really do have a letting go, releasing energy in
the room when everyone's doing it together. So I'm excited
to see what you do next, Like that's that's that's brilliant.
I think combining music and that sort of a healing
experience is super unique and really powerful. So I'm excited

(57:01):
for you to have bigger on it's these bigger venues
and all of that to come to, all of that
to happen. One thing that comes to mind for me
when we're talking about all of this with you is
just you've done so much at such a young age.
It seems like you're navigating it and doing it in
the best way you possibly can with getting the help
and reconnect with your family doing therapy. I mean, I'm

(57:24):
so happy that you've been supported this young and you've
found that support, because I either meet people who've been
around in the industry for decades and they've just found support,
or I meet people who are young and kind of
really gone off on a different path, and there's very
few people your age who I think have found that

(57:45):
and that's really incredible to see. What do you think
that young artists need in order to be supported in
their journey of being a musician, an actor and actress,
whatever it may be, you think would be really useful
for them for people who are aspiring, because I think
everyone would want everyone from the outside would look at

(58:05):
your life and be like, I want that, I want
to be that. What do you think they should be
aware of in their journey in pursuit that could help them.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
I think that the biggest advice and the biggest thing
that has helped me and that I could tell anyone,
is to be very vocal and honest and open and vulnerable,
you know, to the closest people around you, to your team,
to the people that you trust. Because I think that's
how I was able to create such a stable support

(58:38):
system around me from the beginning, because you know, everyone
knows the type of music that I talk about, and
everyone knows that I actually struggle with it as well,
and so I feel like that's why it's me being
so open and honest about, you know, the things that
I struggle with and my needs and the thing that

(59:00):
I need help with. I think that's helped me be
able to continue this because there's other people that are
aware and in support of that as well. And I
think like even if people don't really struggle with anyone,
just being honest in yourself and never losing sight of that.
I feel like I've even had moments where I've almost

(59:20):
lost myself in this because it's so easy to get
influenced and to try and figure out, you know what,
who's the person that people want you to be, and
who what's the type of music or you know, anything
like that that people want from you. But that's not
going to do anything but hurt you and your career.

(59:42):
And I was just I had like a conversation like
not too long ago where it's like, yeah, like my
dream and my goal is to be like one of
the biggest artists ever. Of course that's like what I'm
doing this for. But I'm not never in my entire
life going to sit down and release a song that
I know as a hit, or to go and write

(01:00:03):
a song that I know as a hit that doesn't
feel like me as an artist and isn't something that
I relate to, just so that you know, it'll you know,
give me a step up in the career and maybe
like you know, create this like skyrocket process for me
because it is a hit, you know, and it's something
that would be good in the industry. I'd rather build

(01:00:25):
whatever I can by being myself because it's more. It's
more like I feel more proud doing that and accomplishing things.
Just being myself and you know, saying the things that
I want to say and being real. I feel like
that means the world to me more than just you know,
being an artist and releasing hits and being a person

(01:00:47):
that you know. It's I feel like it's just the
easy way out a little bit. But I feel like
because of how I started this and how I continue
to do all of this is what's gonna make me
be able to do it for the rest of my
life because I'm not going to get like trapped in
this like facade or this crazy headspace. It's like everyone

(01:01:10):
knows me who I am, and this music helps me
and probably just as much as it helps everyone out there,
and so I feel very fortunate for that. So Yeah,
anyone that is inspiring to do this or needs any advice,
I would just say to be themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
That's that's incredible. I you're definitely wise beyond your years,
and you're I wish you all the best from the
bottom of my heart. Like you know, for everything you
just said, I think we need more art in the
world that is made from a place of healing in
order to help people. It can still be fun and
exciting and interactive and entertaining and all of that, but

(01:01:47):
it's made from that deeper place which I feel like
you're definitely trying to channel. We end every episode of
On Purpose with a final five. These are the fast five.
The questions have to be answered in one word to
one sentence maximum. However, when I get intrigued, I always
go off record, which is fine. We'll do that, so
nest of these are your final five. The first question

(01:02:08):
is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Let go and like, God, like, that's one hundred percent
the best advice ever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Beautiful, all right. Question two, what's the worst advice you've
ever heard or received?

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Text him?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
All right, God, tell me more, Tell me more.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
You know, if you're just like in your head about
like an extra or anything like that, and someone tells
you, you know what, just text him, do not listen, do
not you know. I feel like there's a lot of
advice that kind of just enables your bad habits. Let's
try to stay away from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
That, Yeah, great, great advice. So I'm gonna ask you.
I'm gonna go slightly off peace Dare, because I think
you might have some good advice with people. Let's say
I have a hypothetical friend. It's a real friend. But
let's have a friend who is around your age, and
she deals with people pleasing. She becomes friends with guys

(01:03:08):
who actually want to get with her, but then she
doesn't like them in that way, but then she feels
bad to tell them that. What should she do in
that scenario? Why are you laughing? There's something going to
us like this reminds you so much of myself? That's
so funny. Great advice, but what advice would give to
my friend? It's a real story. So I'm like actually

(01:03:33):
asking when she listens to this, she's going to be like, Jerry,
how did you put me out?

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I think boundaries is like the biggest advice. And I
feel like when you are people pleaser and you're a
very nice person, like at the core, and you only
see like the good in people and you can't really like,
it's easy to like it's it's easy to ignore any
red flags. I feel like, just try and set as

(01:03:57):
many boundaries as yourself and just like protect yourself and
just be cautious. I feel like being cautious is the
biggest thing because there are sticky situations that you can
get into just because you're genuinely a nice person and
everyone has different intentions than you. So I think slow,
being slow and steady and cautious, okay, And yeah, I

(01:04:21):
don't know. Sometimes it's urgery to give advice when like,
as I don't even know, I want.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
To know what you would do. Question number three What
keeps you up at night?

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Honestly?

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Anything, anything and everything I could think about, you know,
certain situations that are happening in my personal life or uh,
you know, I I get paranoid and I have like
anxiety about like with my family because they're so far
from me now, or I just start thinking about deep

(01:04:52):
things like God and the universe and aliens and weird
stuff like that and if I'm even human. But yeah,
I think anything keeps me up at night in a
weird way. The even sometimes like songwriting, I feel like
I've stayed up for hours before trying to write a
song absolutely goes nowhere.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
A question num before if someone needs to break up
with someone, What is your best advice to the person
doing the breaking up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Sit them down and have a really nice, respectful conversation
about it, and be as vocal and honest as you
can and still have compassion and not try to let things.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Get fired up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Or also stand your ground, because if you already want
to break up with them, don't let them convince you otherwise,
and do so without cheating or being disloyal because it
is not nice. I have this song there I wrote
recently that was it's called leave Me Better Than You
Found Me, And so it's kind of like that's like

(01:05:54):
my whole thing like about breakups.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
It's like, if you're going to break.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Up with someone, like, don't do all of the the
yelling and the arguments and the cheating and the slamming
the door before you leave at like when you break up,
like literally, just have it be like a nice, mature,
open conversation and like, you know, have it be a
kiss goodbye rather than like a slam to the door
out type thing. You know, don't cause any more trouble,

(01:06:21):
trouble and like pain then like you know you need to.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Yeah, great advice, Great advice. There we go all right.
Fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest
who's ever been on the show. If you could create
one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
what would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Okay, this one seems so like stupid. This is the
first thing that I came up in my head. But
I think that if there was a law that where
if like you had to I feel like I'm gonna
sound like so like cringe and like clichi you doing this,
But like if you see someone like in public that's like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
Very like obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Going through it and like crying and like in pain,
like give them a hug, give them like love. I
feel like that is something that should be a lot
I feel like nowadays there's so much hatred and separation
in the world. I feel like we just need a
lot more love. So if there was a law that was, like,
if you see someone that needs it, give them love

(01:07:24):
and give them a hug. I feel like that would
make the world a lot more of a better place.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
That's awesome. I love it. Nasa everyone hell is a
teenage girl music is out right now. I hope anyone
who's going through a breakup been through a tough breakup
just wants to have good energy and good healing in
their life should go listen to the music. I know
that I'll be recommending it to everyone. Nasa. I'm just
so grateful to you for you know, even just talking
to you's been so peaceful, so calming, And what's really

(01:07:51):
wonderful is hearing someone who's obviously been through so much
but able to express it in a really coherent way
that's not like that's really tough. And to hear about
all the work that you're doing on yourself and the
therapy and the hypnotherapy and just reflecting and making music
and expressing your art, all of that is just I

(01:08:12):
really appreciate it, and it's wonderful to see and thank
you so much for all the hard work you're doing
for yourself and then to share it with others as well.
But even just hearing you speak, I'm like, I hope
everyone just listens to this episode on repeat because they're
going to get so much out of it. But nessa,
thank you so much everyone who's been listening or watching.
Whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're

(01:08:32):
at the gym, whether you're driving, whatever you're doing, make
sure you tag NASA and I on TikTok, on Instagram,
on threads, on Twitter, on any platform you're using, letting
us know what stood out to you, what stuck out
to you, what you're practicing, what moments you're re listening to.
I love seeing what resonates with you. Maybe you're going
to do your own burn box at home safely. Thank

(01:08:53):
you so much for listening and watching. A huge thanks
NASA for being here, and thank you so much. That
was awesome. Thank you. This episode you'll enjoy my conversation
with Megan Trainer on breaking generational trauma and how to
be confident from the inside out.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for
five minutes. It was already tough for me to love
my body, but after the C section scar with all
the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've
been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I
was like, you know what, her thigh is a cue