Shawn Mendes: How to Let Go of Your Past Self and Fully Embrace Who You’ve Become Today

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What does it feel like being in this room, dude?
Since such an incredible journey that we're getting to be
a part of here.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
I remember singing treat you better in here. This is
a place of breakthrough for me.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
What's it been like for you having your romantic life
be so public? Elia actually sent us a note. No way,
my sister yes, so she says, dear Sean, Oh no,
I'm going to cray. We'd throwed to announce that we've
reached three million subscribers. We're incredibly grateful for each and

(00:33):
every one of you. If you enjoyed this episode, don't
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Some of your favorite topics are sleep, science, weight loss,

(00:56):
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Upcoming episodes include one of the biggest names in health
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(01:18):
someone who would love this episode, send it to them
to make their day. The number one health and wellness podcast,
Jay Setty Jay sheety Ly. Hey, everyone, welcome back to
On Purpose. I am so grateful to be with you
in this very very special place today with a human

(01:38):
that I'm so lucky to call a friend. And it's
kind of strange sitting opposite him with a microphone in
front of me, because this is not usually how we
spent time together. And I can honestly say that this
individual is someone you already know. He needs no introduction.
But whenever he speaks, you hear truth in his voice.
Whenever he sings, you hear his heart through it. Whenever

(02:01):
he's around anyone, I've seen him light up every room
he walks into and radiate goodness and genuineness around him.
And his new music is going to do that in
such a powerful, beautiful, thoughtful way, and I can't wait
for you to hear it. And we're so lucky that
we get to be in the womb of where his

(02:22):
work's being created right now. I'm sitting there with my
dear friend incredible musician, phenomenal human and all around great dude.
Sean Mendez, Sean, it's good to see.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Man crazy finally.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Finally after four years of hikes.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
It feels like it feels like longer than four years.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Man, it does feel that four years. But yesterday night
I went back and traced back the first time we
messaged twenty twenty, twenty twenty years, so I was like, yeah,
I was like, I thought it was longer too, But yeah,
it's been a lot of deep time there.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, it's it's been crazy, and I mean we've been
talking about wanting to do this, but yeah, I knew
the right time would just appear, and it just feels
like so the right time. And I guess for everyone,
you guys don't really know that, like the last four years, Jane,
I had this beautiful relationship where we go on these

(03:20):
hikes and we just kind of catch up and yeah, man,
you've just been You've been beyond there for me for
so long. So I love you and I'm just I'm
so grateful and this is so important to me and
I'm honored to be here and it's just other things, man.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, truly, brother, thank you for saying that the feeling's mutual.
I think it's really interesting when you connect with someone
and you're being kind and saying I was there for you,
But I think you've equally been there for me, hope so,
and you've helped me see things in myself that I
wouldn't have seen if I didn't know you. And I
think watching you reflect through the process you've been through

(03:57):
in the last four years, and watching you be so
inward focused kind of forced me to do more self
work as well. And so I think it's been a
beautiful mutual relationship. But let's diep straight into I actually
want you to share with people where we are, because
this is not my studio and we're in this beautiful place,

(04:17):
and I think you're the best person to give us
a visual tour. If you're watching, and if you're listening.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, if you're listening, we are and we're sitting in
the middle of a live room in a studio called
the Clubhouse in upstate Rhinebeck, New York. If you're watching,
you're seeing all the beautiful candles and stuff. This is
probably one of my favorite places in the whole world.
This is the room that, oh man, I mean I've

(04:45):
made all of my albums here, all of my music,
and I've had some of the most magical moments of
my life in this room, and so I'm going to
be probably a little emotional, just like even sitting in here,
just because as I sit here and as we talk,
it's just memories kind of circling around.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Of just like time. And Yeah, it's an amazing studio.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah you can feel it. I felt when I walked in,
and I can feel it right now. There's a different
energy in here. So I'm so grateful that you allowed
us to come in and share this with the rest
of the world through this interview. And it's really beautiful
actually being in a space where an artist creates and
moves and cries and breaths, and I think it's rare

(05:38):
you don't really get access to that. I think you
go see artists in a concert or in a public
space where you don't really get this. And I thought
where I wanted to start this interview is kind of
roll back to your announcement about tour, and you talk
about this in your song who I Am you say,
And I'm going to be looking at my notes a
lot because I haven't yet learned all your lyrics off

(06:00):
and I know the fans are going to be really heartbroken.
They're like, yeah, have you not done this yet? But
if I'm on my phone, I'm reading lyrics back to you.
So in Who I Am it says it broke my
heart when I canceled tour, had my soul and my
heart going back and forth, and I wanted to read
the message you actually put up on Instagram at the time,
because I remember it going out.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, we were talking about talking the night before.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, you were actually the person I texted at
like one am that night when I was just in
complete spin of what to do. And I just remember
feeling so much like I think in those situations, it
feels really hard to ask people to give you advice

(06:45):
or to give you an opinion because it's such a
big deal, you know, to do something like that. And
I remember assuming you were going to reply something along
the lines of you can do it, you know, just
you know, you got it, like we can do this,
we can figure out a way, and you were just like,
in the most loving way. I can't remember exactly, something

(07:06):
along lines of just like whatever you need, take care
of yourself, you know, and I remember when I read that,
my whole body just like sunk into the bed and
I was like, oh God, like, yeah, it was really
important to me.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
So thank you for that. But yeah, so sorry, go on.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Noh yeah, no, no, no, I'm sure glad that you
remember that. I remember you telling me that you know,
on tour, an artist has to do something like or
someone like yourself has to do like one hundred and
fifty shows minimum. And I remember asking you, at what
point do you feel like you can't do another show?
And you said around like fifty.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, and I was just like what.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
I was like, so wait, you have to do one
hundred And it was so funny because I went on
my World tour last year, I only needed forty shop
and I felt it around thirty three yeah, And I was.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like, wow, she probably has something to do with relative
to when the end is.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, yeah, fifties any race, ye know? And so anyway,
you said there were two times you posted about it,
but this one you said, this breaks my heart to
have to say this, but unfortunately I'm going to have
to postpone the next three weeks of shows. I've been
touring since I was fifteen, and to be honest, it's
always been difficult to be on the road away from

(08:19):
friends and family. After a few years off the road,
I felt like I was ready to dive back in,
but the decision was premature and unfortunately the toll of
the road and the pressure has caught up to me
and I've hit a breaking point. After speaking with my
team and health professionals, I need to take some time
to heal and take care of myself and my mental
health first and foremost. As soon as there are more updates,

(08:42):
I promise you I will let you know. Love you guys,
walk me through how hard that time was for you, mentally, physically,
even before having to send that message, because I think
when people see that message, they think you've just decided it,
but really it's something you've been holding yeah, for months, weeks,

(09:03):
maybe even years.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, And I think like the reality is, anyone who
does anything at a high level knows that it's hard.
It's hard, Like anything you want to do that's extraordinary
is hard. So there are going to be these moments
where it feels really hard and it feels like you
can't do it, and that I think every athlete or
performer or anyone knows, you know that there are all

(09:26):
these dips and these peaks, and that's just part of it.
The problem is that, for me, the hardest part about
being in a state of I don't even know the
right word to describe it, but you could say, you know, depression,
you could say anxiety, you could say just general darkness

(09:47):
or lowness. The hardest thing about that is not the
feeling that way. It's that the feeling that way makes
you look at your life that lens, and therefore all
the love that's around you and all the people who
are loving you and supporting you, you can't even see

(10:07):
that love anymore. Uh, And so it's all just kind
of getting consumed by this feeling. I mean, I've done
I've done a lot of tours and that was you know,
and I've been in hard places before, and I think
the reality was that it just became really really clear
to me that I needed to diversify in life, you know,

(10:31):
and that since I was a kid, my entire life
had been about one thing. It had been about performing
and making music and just a constant kind of cycle.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
And it was amazing.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
And but the reality is that, you know, I really
do believe all your eggs in one basket is a
dangerous way, you know. And I was like, I was
the number one ruter of like I have no plan B.
I don't have, you know, And I had nowhere to
go when things were getting hard, you know, I didn't

(11:05):
have other aspects of life that I felt connected to
that I could have like leaned into to have a
little bit of like a break from touring and come
back and just find that balance. And I knew there
was only one way of doing that, and it was
by step by step, just like creating a life, you know.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
And so yeah, I mean, canceling that.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Tour was by far the hardest decision of my life
and by far the greatest decision of my life. And
it gave me a life, you know, it really it
gave me time to discover so much about myself. And yeah,

(11:47):
I'm smiling now because it's so far away, but it, yeah,
did so much for me.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Who did you feel? I know later on you talk
about in the same song this idea of I feel
pressure from the people that I love and it hurts. Yeah,
but I know I got to do it, got to
put me first. Like who do you feel you were
letting down at the time, yourself and others.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, I think the reality is not just as the artist,
is not just you that sacrifices everything to do that.
You have a team of almost one hundred people who
are away from their families for year and they're every
day working, They're not sleeping, they're sacrificing everything to put
this show on. That was one of the hardest pills

(12:32):
to swallow.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
It's just like, oh man, and like they are excited
to like, you know, you got to be an insane
person to be a touring crew or anyone on tour.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
You have to truly love it.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
You have to understand that, like this is profoundly greater
than you and what's happening is magical. And so it
was like not letting people down and like we've worked
so hard. It was like, oh man, people were excited,
you know, people were proud out of what they created,
and that was the hard part.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, it feels like I remember when we would talk
about it. Then there was also this weight around it
where it was like you'd had this growth period in
your life, where as you said, you've been doing this
since you were fifteen. Yeah, and then all of a sudden,
you were kind of getting the growth opportunity to say,
I get to make my own decisions now. And I remember, like,

(13:26):
just learning from you about that dynamic of young people
who become successful and famous and very very early on,
it's like you're still a kid. Yeah, and then all
of a sudden you're like, oh, well, am I allowed
to make my own decisions? Am I allowed to say
I don't want to do something? Walk me through a
bit of that reflective process, because I think it's not
an age thing. I think we all go through. We

(13:48):
all go through this arc in our life where we go, oh, I'm.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Going to be the one to make the decisions now?
Am I going to take the responsibility?

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah? And I think, yeah, that's the hardest part is.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
He really comes down to the moment you're prepared to
take responsibility for your life and for everything that goes
wrong and for everything that goes right. And it's hard,
you know, because your whole life you either you have
your parents to either rely on, like you know, you
look at them and.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
They go, okay, yeah, well they said.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's always kind of like you can deflect that responsibility
on to someone else, whether it's my manager or someone,
and uh, yeah, that was just like, this is going
to be a big decision I make and then there's
going to be repercussions here and I'm going to have
to be responsible for it. And yeah, it's it's kind

(14:44):
of it's kind of just like that. And the beautiful
thing is that once I did that, it felt like, now, okay,
that was the kind of big one, and then every
other little decision it was kind of like, well here
here I am again making another decision and you kind
of go so like I might started bring my sister
into this, but like for Yuli, yeah, but like she's like, oh,

(15:06):
I don't want to. She's like, can't I just not
have the responsibility? And I'm like, that's not how it works. Like,
once you start taking responsibility, you just got to keep
taking responsibility. And it's simultaneously grueling but also so much
more rewarding because when it goes well, you know, it's
you who put yourself in that position.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
So, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Said something beautiful just now you said it was the
hardest decision and it was the greatest decision.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Have you found those two things often go together or
would you say that's not the case.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
I find that simultaneously the hardest moments of my life
are coupled with the most beautiful moments of my.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Life every time.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, it actually became kind of like a joke during
this making of this album, because when I would walk
into the studio and I you know, people would see
on my face immediately if I'm having anxiety or and
they would be like, we're going to write a good
song today. Like every time, it was like there was
some sort of healing crisis that had to happen. I

(16:09):
had to like get through this pain, this fear, this anxiety,
these tears, this anger something, and on the other end
of that was just like plain truth and plain truth
was just the best ingredients for a song, you know.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
So, yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
How does an eyes never find peace?

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Then that's a great question.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think like I would be following through, and I
do follow through even if there's no song to write.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think we're so taught, especially in so many societies
and cultures, but like I feel like in the West,
we're so taught to just there's a time and place
for things. And if you're in an interview and tears
are about to come if you're in an interview and
anger is about to happen, you can't let that happen.

(16:57):
And I really have noticed that, like, if you can
just like express it in an honest, calm way, most
likely a more beautiful thing is going to come through
that than what you desired. You know, I would do
that if there was no song that came out of it.
That's kind of my way of moving through life. It's
like I head to the gym, and I'm like, if
I'm walking into the gym today and to decrying in

(17:18):
the gym, that's a better outcome, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
So you do live like that?

Speaker 2 (17:23):
I do?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You do live like that? And I haven't said it yet,
but you know, this album, it's so fascinating for me
to see it from the moment that we're talking about
now to then its creation, because I remember when it
was you trying to figure out your voice and figure
out who you are as an artist, as a person,
as a human. And now when I listen to it,

(17:44):
it almost sounds so effortless and true and authentic in
this really flowing way, kind of like this channeling experience
of even listening to it, and I couldn't believe it
when I listened to it, because I was like, wow,
like you did it like that? That's how I felt like.
I was like, you did it? And then some like
it was even it far superseded any of the expectations

(18:08):
I would have had in the conversations we had of
how you were thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, yeah, and it's like, you know, you have the
idea of some if I said to you, you know,
six months ago, I want to make the most honest
album ever made. Then you start having ideas of what
that sounds like and what that looks like. And then
at some point actually in the studio, at some point
when you're done with all the ideas of what you

(18:33):
are trying to force it to become, there's a breaking
point and you surrender to it and the album starts
to become what it's meant to be, and you just
have to like roll with that, you know.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, And that's that's hard though, it's super hard.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
How do you trust that? How do you trust it?
Because I feel like, with exhaustion, I think we're living
at this time where I feel like everything's perfectly engineered, manufactured,
and even authenticity is programmed. Yeah. Yeah, and then you're
trying to say, well, no, I actually want to create
something like that, but then how do I not engineer it?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Something that I learned on this process was just like
the foundation, like the first brick you lay, If that
brick is a brick of like authentic truth. If you
work really hard to get to that place, and that
first brick you lay is truth, each brick after that
will be much easier, you know. And like I remember,

(19:27):
it felt like as long as every word I say
comes out of my like the writers I was working with,
everyone became so attuned to me saying something, and if
I was like, you know, saying it and then I
was kind of quincing after if I was saying it
and then it just didn't sound right coming out of
my mouth, we would just be like, all right, that's
not it, Like we need it needs to have that,

(19:47):
like you said, that natural flow and that first brick
just like set a foundation for truth to just be it.
Now we're at the point where anything that really isn't
in that space is so obvious that we can't even

(20:08):
put it next to it, you know, And so it's
just really if you start there, it's so much easier
to build it's so much harder to start in a
kind of place of I want to be perceived this way,
and then halfway through that be like I want this
to feel like truth, and because it itself gets confused, you.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was saying this to Helena
the other day yesterday when we were driving from Boston
last night, and I was just saying that I'm at
a point in my life where i just want to experience,
like I don't want to think about It's not that
I don't I want to be It's not that I
want to be irresponsible and not think about consequences or repercussions.

(20:48):
But there are certain experiences that I want to open
myself up to, regardless of how they're perceived or how
I may have perceived them in the past, because that's
the only way I'm going to actually get to live.
If I'm constantly curating and perfectly managing every part of
my appearance, perception, reputation, whatever environment, I don't actually get

(21:10):
to live or breathe or experience. And when I hear
you talk, I feel like that's something I definitely learned
from you, because there's been this part of you that's
just been so open to being all of yourself and
not having to pick. There was one lyric where you say,
and why why why you say I stepped off the
stage with nothing left. All the lies are with my head?

(21:34):
Think with my head? What were the lies?

Speaker 3 (21:38):
What lights? Is the lyric you get the fans.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
There we go, I message, we go, there we go,
there we go?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
The lights?

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, there lies. I heard lies.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
I mean no lies.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
I mean maybe lies internally, but yeah, I think the lights.
And metaphorically I think it was just more so it
had so much to do with perception, just this kind
of instant, just this constant focus on what I look
like and what I feel like to the world, and
I needed to I stopped. I didn't even know at

(22:10):
that point what I felt like and what I looked
like to myself.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
There was a real like stripping down process that had
to happen and took me a long time. But up
until up until, like I would say, like the creation
of this album, I don't remember the last time I
felt so like just myself. Probably the last time was

(22:36):
when I was like nine or ten.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Wowstly, Yeah, Hey everyone, it's Jay Schatty and I'm throwed
to announce my podcast tour for the first time ever.
You can see my on Purpose podcast live and in person.
Join me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful
conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top

(22:59):
wellness expert, or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive
into experiences designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build
real connections. I can't wait to see you there. Tickets
are on cell now, head to Jayshetty dot me and
get yours today. What was he about nine or ten
that felt so true?

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Not having the need to like cover the late cover
the layers of what I was feeling. You know, I
was just like an expressing ball, you know, like similarly
to how I'm a Probably I probably like more emotional today,
similarly to how it was when I was nine, you know.
And yeah, I guess just that not having the.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
The words and.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
The stories that you've been told, you know, as you
start to grow up, spinning in my head and just
expressing truth of who I am. And I'm lucky too,
man Like. I know that a lot of people they're
not surrounded by people who are maybe super accepting or
embracing of that truth, and I know that's hard, and
I think I have a lot of compassion for that.

(24:12):
And the reality is that I wasn't around a lot
of people who were. And I think part of starting
to just like strip back those layers is also to
just maneuver the people you're around in your life and
starting to be around people who you can be like
that with, and it just becomes kind of a feedback
loop of positive, honest reinforcement. And then you know, you

(24:35):
look around one day and you're like, Oh, all these
people in this room like really love Sean, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Walk me through that discomfort, because I think it's easy
to jump from. Like I canceled tour too. I'm in
the studio making new music and we both know it
wasn't like that.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
I walk me through. So one thing in the discomfort
you're saying is surrounding yourself with people that allow you
to be yourself. Yeah, you to be and figure it out.
What else were like really important kind of principles that
guided you through that no man's land, through that desert
of time? What was it for you that kind of

(25:14):
showed you that nought style when things were dark?

Speaker 3 (25:17):
So many things.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Like, you know, I think the process of like healing
and moving through a dense moment in your life is
not just sticking to one thing. It's really using everything
at your fingertips. And whether that was therapy or whether
that was like friendship, or it was reading, or it
was music or what it was you know, Uh, it

(25:39):
was just a mixture of all of it. And I
think the hardest thing for me and my life has
been this kind of wanting to always have the perception
of like strength and altogether kind of grounded and still,

(26:02):
you know. And when I started to like allow myself
to really I think it's like it really you got
to really feel pain to like let your ego get
out of the way when you when you when I
started to really allow myself to like lean on my
family and my friends and.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Also like.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Just reach out to people and be like, you know,
that was just such a huge part of it. You know,
I didn't know at the time, but just using using
the people around me to support me was a huge
huge part of it. And yeah, not and being open

(26:47):
to not knowing how to get through it and just
letting people maybe help me how they can, you know,
and they might have their own way. And yeah, the
people a song on the album called Heavy, and it's
just so much of it. It's just about letting people
who love you help you. You know, it's a hard

(27:08):
People talk a lot about it's hard to give love.
It's hard to be in that state. But man like
receiving love, Like when love is in front of you
and it's trying to give itself to you through someone,
that's a hard thing to receive.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
It's really hard.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
You know, a lot of people, including myself, just like
want to freeze up. And so my new thing is
kind of like instead of walking into a room when
I'm feeling bad holding it, the first thing I'll do
is just like literally like lean on someone like physically,
like hey can I can I have some love and
I need it? And that changes it like shifts so much,
you know.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah that's so powerful. Yeah, that's so powerful.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
And I feel like I remember in the beginning when
we'd hang out if you weren't feeling good, they'd be
a part of you be like I don't think.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
I want to hang out you Yeah, yeah exactly, And
then that.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Switch of what you're saying where it's like, oh no,
no matter how I feel, Yeah, I need to lean
and I love that and that's freeing.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Like if I can only hang out with you when
I'm feeling still in at peace and coming from a
very high perspective, I am like I got three percent
of the time, you know, like and I think even
for doing.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Something like this podcast.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
I mean when we first met each other, I used
to be like, oh, I got to get to this
degree of you know, calm and understanding of life. And
the reality is I don't have a deeper understanding of life.
I just have a deeper acceptance of self. And that
allows me to sit here and be like, hey, like here, here,
it is here, this is what we got, you know,

(28:35):
and that has changed everything to me. It frees you
from so much, you know, you can kind of just
be like, hey, this is That's actually a huge part
of it. I used to before I would get out
of a car and go into a social situation, or
before I would I just would say like, I'm as,
I'm moving as fast as I can. I cannot be
healing any quicker than this.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
I'm this is it. I'm here, So let's just let's
be this, you know.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, Yeah, and it trips us up. I feel like
we just, yeah, we're trying to be something we're not,
or trying to be something we're not feeling.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, we're trying to feel.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Something we don't genuinely feel in the moment, whether it's
us trying to be more confident, trying to be more calm,
trying to be more whatever else it may be fill
in the blank.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, and it.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Lets us down and.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Wand letting yourself down too. You know there's a part
of you that you're just like telling yourself. You're telling
that part of yourself like you're not good enough to
be around these people or to be in front of
this camera.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
You know, what was the hardest question you had to
ask yourself during this whole period, Like, what was the
question that you asked yourself the most often that you
sought the answer for?

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Was just like general direction.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
I remember so many times I was just like driving
my car aimlessly and I would just be like literally,
I think the verbatim words I said out of my
mouth were like you're exactly where you're supposed to be,
Like you're exactly where you're meant to be, Like this
is I know it might not look like what you
thought it was supposed to look like. It might not

(30:10):
feel like what you thought, but like something about this
is uh is it? And there was just a lot
of beautiful things that happened in that time. Like I
moved to la and I didn't really have a lot
of people around at that time. And I remember I
went to this coffee shop every morning and I got this,
I got a coffee. And as I was like sitting
there telling myself this, you know, I saw this one guy,

(30:33):
his name is Josh, he's great human and was reading
this book it's called When Things Fall Apart he basically read.
He was reading that book for two years, sitting on
the coffee shop and I went up to him, said,
what's this book?

Speaker 3 (30:44):
You know?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
He introduced me to another friend and another friend, and
by the time after I knew it was like every
day there's three or four of us would sit around
having coffee and it was like just little group therapy sessions,
and it just became the most the best thing in
the world world to me. It was like nine am,
We're gonna go talk it out.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
And it was exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Where I was supposed to be at that time, and
it was so weird and awkward and uncomfortable, but it man,
it really, yeah, really that little thing changed my life.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
It was funny because I'd always people wuld always tell
me I just saw sure and hang around a coffee
shop like this.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
I sit there, like you can see the mayor of
the coffee shop.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
And it's start to become like this this thing where
everyone would like watch it and be like, what's going
on here? Uh? And I feel like you you really
took shelter in like building your men's circle and your
men's group and having that ability to have, you know,
a group of men around you that you could be
honest with and with What was what was unique about that?
Like why was that such an interesting thing to build?
Because I know you'd always talk to me about that

(31:45):
as well, this yeah group that you were nourishing and.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, and like I had a couple I had, you know,
I have I had this this kind of coffee men's group,
and I had this other beautiful men's group simultaneously happening.
And I think, you know, just having like men from
all ages, from all parts of the world to do
all different things like really just show up and strip

(32:10):
it all back and just be brave in front of you.
I remember like one someone something, someone something I don't
know told me, like when someone is sharing something hard
with you, like nine times out of ten, you don't
have to say anything back because the most healing part

(32:32):
about that experience is just to be witnessed in your pain.
And I think it's just that it's like to be
witnessed in your pain and for the person in front
of you not to be like I don't want this.
It's just for them to you know, when do you
open your eyes and the pain is over and you
look up and they're still.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
There, like, hey man, still here?

Speaker 2 (32:51):
You know, that's beyond you know, So in simple ways
like that, that's been a huge part of it.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, And I like that you were playing that role
while you were receiving that. I think there's something really
interesting about that.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
It's empowering.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
You're simultaneously being vulnerable and then also listening to other
people go through their stories and you're empowered to be
strong and hold for them. And it's just a beautiful process,
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Because I think a lot of us feel like when I.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Get there, I'll be strong enough and I'll be strong
enough to.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Hold space for others. It's almost like this simultaneous mutual
holding is what we all need. And you're actually only
going to be better at holding others if you allow
yourself to be held and if you practice holding others
even when you have nothing to hold them with exactly,
and that balance is what creates that structure, that foundation
that you're resting on.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
The roots.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, you were talking about this, You're talking about heavy
and in the song you say it's been so heavy,
it's been so long running from everything and nothing at all.
I was thinking about that a lot. It was like,
so often we think things are so heavy and there's
so much going on, and then at the same time
you're like, but it's not. Yeah there, look me through
that dilemma, because.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
The constant dilemma. It's like, in.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Reality, there is a lot going on, and then also
in reality it's okay oftentimes too. You know, it's that
internal perspective that you're going through. And I felt like, yeah,
just running when you have the money and the ability

(34:30):
to be on the constant move and run. I just ran,
and I was just never still and it was like
I couldn't figure out how to get away from the
feeling that was that was feeling so bad, and at
some point I was just like, okay, you know. A

(34:52):
friend of mine was like, hey, man, wherever you go,
there you are. And at that point I was just like, okay,
I gotta let it kind of hit me, you know,
And yeah, that was just a big part of it.
It's just, like I said, the realization that like when
you kind of move all of the stuff out of
the way, it just kind of kind of it just
drops into the truth. It's really hard to get to

(35:15):
that place when all of the noise gets out of
the way.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's very hard to get to that state.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
But sometimes when you do, it allows you to look
around and be like, Okay, actually it's okay.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
You know, well, you're running away from fame? Was it
was it? What was it? What did you feel you
were running away from? Did you Was there a point
where you're like, I don't want to be famous, like
I don't want to have the platform.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Absolutely, And I think just like more of like what
I felt like the fame was doing to my mind,
and I was I was letting it do to my mind,
and it all was based around perception and just all
I wanted to feel was comfortable in my own body,
you know, and like not rowling in my skin, from

(36:03):
like every word that would come out of my mouth
to the way I would sit in a chair, everything,
you know. And I think it just takes time because
the reality is that if you spend your life around
cameras and around social media and around people who are
constantly talking about the way you look, the way you sound,

(36:23):
the way you act in a way that has more
to do with a performance and perception than that is
what you're going to be focused on. And you really,
if you're stuck in that spending, you need to put
yourself around people who are like doing the opposite of that,
who are like not worried about how you're acting, not
worried about what you're saying, not worried about how you're
sitting and just existing, you know.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
And I had to.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Just reconnect with that, and that's that's why I name
the album Sean Too Like, And you know, I just
felt like, yeah, just that that process of stripping just
took so long, and a lot of it is just
like I think, a lot of it is.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
This idea of who.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I wanted to be in this world, you know, this
like this image of perfection, and I just like, even
right now, I'm just like, oh, man, like, thank God
for everything, because I'm sitting here and I really am
not having tons of intrusive thoughts about like is how
are you saying the right thing? Are you doing the
right thing? It just it just is, you know, and

(37:33):
I'm just grateful for that. It's a nice feeling. I
just got to like check on that for a second.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
You know. I'm glad you're feeling that way. That's what
I say what I was doing the intro. I mean,
I felt that way because we always talk about these
things anyway. Yeah, it's even strange having all this stuff. Yeah,
and this is And it was funny because I was
noticing something that was happening in our conversation. I'd be
halfway through a thought and you'd lead on it, let
me ask the question. Sorry no, And I was like,
but that's what would do, like we would never we

(37:58):
would never have perfect pa. And I was liking that,
like I was appreciating that. I was noticing it, going, oh,
this is really nice. I'm not even finishing my thought
and Sean already knows what I'm about to say, and
I was like that, I'm glad that we're doing that
and that you know, when we started this, like my
you know, it was like I was like, yeah, I
don't want this. This doesn't need to be a performance

(38:19):
because there is, because it's real. There doesn't need to
be that. And so I keep doing it as what
I'm saying, and I'm happy that you're feeling there's no
intrusive thoughts. I mean, you know, I think that constant
filtering that we always live in is exhausting.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
It's exhausting, man.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
And I remember, like you told me about some of
the pressures back then that came from different sources of like, oh,
if you want to be the biggest artist, then you
have to do this. If you don't do this now,
then you won't be as big as so and so whatever,
like you know, and it's so and I was thinking
about that, and you know, when I met you, you were whatever,
like twenty two years old or something, and it's like
you're like, gosh, like hearing that as a twenty two

(38:54):
year old and then you hear about like you know,
TikTokers who are taking off and they're hearing about it
eighteen years old, sixteen years old and you probably heard it. Yeah,
when you start at fifteen like that can really push
someone into only caring about those things.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, of course, what did.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
That stripping away look like? Where Like we always talk
about this, like you look great, you're dressing well, you know,
the hair looks good. Like, how have you got to
a point where like you can care? Yeah? Then still, I.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Think that's part of it. Actually, honestly, I can.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
My tendency is to be very extreme, and a lot
of what I work on in therapy is just finding
this middle ground, is to not be in these black
and white binaries, you know, And I oftentimes I went
from like, you know, wanting to look like the image
of perfection to like I'm just going to go be
a man in the woods and like I don't care
what I look like, I don't care what you think.

(39:44):
And there's a good period I'm sure of paparazzi photos
where people could tell, you know.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
And we'll find them in Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
And I think like it took me a long time
to also come back around to just like caring about
how you look and caring about that type of stuff.
There's nothing wrong with that, you know. It's actually a
beautiful thing. It's just when you start to be completely
consumed by it. And so I started to find a
middle ground again where I was like, Okay, you know
what you can care, just like don't kill yourself caring,

(40:16):
you know, and yeah, it's just yeah, the extremes they
don't work for me anymore.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, I didn't really work for any of us.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
No, no, no, they don't, man, they don't. The second
you can start allowing room for complete like paradox to
exist in your life and like two things to like
the number one thing I say in therapy is yeah,
I know I'm feeling this and I'm also feeling this
at the same time, and that's okay.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
And that's just like it's just creating more space all
the time.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
You have this song Hot of Gold. This was something
that stood out to me. You say, I'm sorry I
wasn't there to hug your mama at the funeral. Yeah,
I didn't cry. I didn't even feel the pain. Then
it hit me all at once when we talked about
it yesterday. Yeah, walked me through who that was what
happened there?

Speaker 2 (41:15):
When I was young, when I was like twelve thirteen,
I had a friend his name was Daomi. My friend Brian,
you know Brian, him and I and Diomi were just
great friends and we, uh we spent a lot of
time together, and he was awesome dude. He was a
lot like me. He's like very sensitive dude, and just

(41:37):
like I really really connected with him. And when I
was fifteen, obviously got signed, started making music and you know,
went off and started touring, and then him and Diomi
and I just kind of started to disconnect. And yeah,
I don't know exactly how old I was, but I

(41:57):
think I was about you know, I was like probably
like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and Brian, you know, would call
me and say like hey, he would say, you know,
Diomi's gotten into drugs and stuff, and just thinking about
his mom. His mom's name is Gail, and you know,
hoping that she sees the beauty and the story of

(42:21):
talking about him and I hope it's okay. But you know,
when I was like eighteen, around eighteen, Brian called me
one day and he said, hey, man, dooe me, he
passed away in his sleep last night, and uh, yeah,
he overdosed. He and I remember when I heard it.
Brian was on the phone crying, and I was just

(42:42):
kind of like somewhere on tour, and uh, I just
like felt numb, like I didn't really feel anything, you know,
and just like hung up and I just kind of
went on with everything, and time just went on. And

(43:04):
sitting in the studio about you know, three months ago,
and I keep hearing this kind of title it's Heart
of Gold, and asking myself like what is this song about?

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Is this song about? And Scott, who I make a
lot of music with. He looks over.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I mean, he goes, didn't you have a friend who
passed away from an overdose? And second he said that
Brian was in the room. Brian goes talking about Diomi,
And yeah, the second he said Diomi's name, it's just
like hit me, Like years of like not processing it
just like all hit me. And we sat there and

(43:46):
sobbed and yeah, the song, man, it was a hard
song to write, and it just felt like a letter.
It felt like a letter to my friend that I
never got to the things I never got to say
to him. And you know, I imagine that like when
you die of an overdose, especially as someone as sweet

(44:08):
and kind and loving as him, like you kind of
wake up wherever you wake up, and there potentially is
this moment of like what happened, you know, Not that
he needs it, but it just felt like a good
opportunity to just be like, hey man, we love you
and you had a heart of gold and and we're
here down here thinking about you, and yeah, it's one

(44:32):
of my favorite songs to play.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Man, it just is.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Uh it's just this beautiful golden light and he is
just like this super swaggy dude, and it just like
it holds his energy and it's just like every time
we play it, I just imagine this huge golden light
beaming up from the place we're in wherever he is,
just reaching him and uh, yeah, I love that song.

(44:58):
Little I can play I can play it for you
on the on the song, but yeah, man, I love.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
That song as well. I was, Yeah, I was intrigued
because that wasn't something I was aware of.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Yeah, it's funny, man, like how these things are when
you're open to the truth and what wants to come
out of you and what wants to be made.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah, it h it's unexpected and it was extremely healing.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
It's still very healing to just like sing that song
out to him every every time I play it.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Now, have you played it for his family?

Speaker 3 (45:34):
I haven't.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Actually, I have to go back to Pickering and play
it for his mom.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah. Yeah, how do you think she'll react?

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Yeah, I don't know. I think she'll love it. She's
an amazing human being.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
I always had an amazing connection with her, and so
I could see her just like she's just a badass,
just totally rock into it and loving it.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
And yeah, special family, special human.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
It's nice to immortalize it in a song, and it
is mortalize him.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Yeah, it is. It is really really nice. I never
wrote about death in that way before. So yeah, was it?

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Was it a process of forgiving yourself for not having
for Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah, yeah, that was a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
A lot of it was the guilt for not reaching out,
or the guilt for not being there for him, or
even more so, just the guilt for not being at
his funeral and seeing his mom and all this stuff.
And music has this funny way of healing and a
way that other things can't, you know. So yeah, I

(46:41):
can't wait to play for his mom. Honestly, I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, I can't wait for you to tell me I well,
I can imagine it just being like this, yeah, really
special moment, and I think, you know, it's it's so
human that, like you know, there's there's so many things
we we go through that we're not ready to process
something yet, and then we feel guilty that we weren't

(47:05):
ready when we almost feel we needed to be. But
then you realize that actually, when you were ready to
process it, something more beautiful came from for everyone. I
think I spoke to him about him, but one of
my monk friends passed away from cancer. My closest friend
during my time in the monastery passed away a couple
of years back. He was maybe a year older than me,

(47:27):
had colon cancer, and I couldn't go back to see
him because it was the pandemic when it happened, and
I couldn't fly back. I couldn't be by his side.
It couldn't be there with him. And in the last
few weeks to months of his experience of it, he
wasn't even in a place to do like phone calls

(47:49):
or you know. And I spoke to him three days
before he passed away on the phone and he was
like crouched over because he was in so much pain physically,
and so I couldn't even look at him. And yeah,
I always carried that as like I wasn't there by
his side. I should have been, I could have been.
And it's been something that when I was listening to
it and I heard that, that's what I was thinking about. Yeah,

(48:11):
it's strange because you kind of bury it until you're
ready to look at it. Yeah, and sometimes you don't
even know if you're ready to look at it yet,
like what part of it. And it's I agree with you.
I think music's the only thing that can get in there,
get into that complexity of it.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, it's grieving is just a complex thing, probably lasts
a lifetime.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
It's beautiful that it came to you in that moment
and that you were able to Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Yeah, I'm glad you related to it.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Man. Yeah, no, I mean I relate to in so
many ways. I mean, even even grieving, Like I think
grief as we talk about obviously this is talking about
the loss of a friend and mine too, but I
think grieving is also like I was at my sister's
wedding last year, and my sister's one of my favorite
people on the planet, one of my best friend. She
knows everything about me. She's four and a half years

(48:58):
younger than me.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Weilar sister vibes. Yeah, same with mine.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, she's just like I love her to bits and
she's like she's like my little brother. Actually, yeah, that's
how unfortunately she's been treated. But you know, I was
at our wedding last year and I left the UK.
I left London eight years ago now, and we've kept
in touch and we've kept our relationship like we're as
tight as ever, so it hasn't been affected. But it
was really funny because I was at her wedding and

(49:25):
I was just like sobbing the whole time, and I
have to show you, can I show I wasn't even
planning on doing this, but now that I remember, I
think I just showed it to my team the other
day because my sister was just with me and she.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
I don't even have it on hand of me crying
at my sister's wedding.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
I have to show you. It was just wait, sorry,
I wasn't prepared for this. That's why it's genuinely in
the moment. I'm trying to make sure that I have
it man so good, and then zoom out to see Roddie's.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Oh man, it's really good. I've never seen your face.
Oh man, that is so good.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
That is an unreal photo. There's so much happening on
your face. There's a whole story on your face.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Rather's like taking a picture, taking a picture. And then
I made her cry and that was yeah good. But
what I'm getting to is this idea of like I
was at my sister's wedding thinking it was going to
be completely normal, and it wasn't because I started to
realize that when I left London, I had to switch off.

(50:45):
Partly I was connected with her and I loved her.
We talked all the time. There was a part of
my emotional connection to my family that I had to
turn off because if I thought about it every day
in New York and then lay, you couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it because I didn't have any family
and friends in New York and La and I didn't
I didn't know how my life was going to go,
and I didn't know what I was going to do.

(51:05):
And I was like, if I stayed too connected emotional,
I'm going to have to run back. And then I
remember I went back to my house, my parents home,
me and my sister grew up and it was the
first time she wasn't there, and I last Christmas, like,
I felt like I was alone, fully alone, and it
was so strange because I was like, what is going on?

(51:25):
And it was all these feelings I denied or put
away or hidden from myself because it was too uncomfortable
to go there. And they all just came up with
my sister leaving and getting married and all the rest
of it. And so I think grieving also is also
the loss of a former life, the loss of a
former self, the loss of There's so much to it
that I think you bring up in that song that

(51:47):
at least you got me thinking about.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, yeah, grief is a really really complex, interesting thing.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
But yeah, that's beautiful, man. I love that photo so much.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I was ended to you, please, I said afterwards, that's
so good. I wanted to talk to you a bit
about you know, and I hope you don't mind doing
an album at all, because I think it's to me.
I always get happy when I can. You know your
music's so healing for me, and I know it's going
to be so healing for people. Actually, actually talked to
me about that because you had fifteen fans in here, yeah,

(52:20):
last night night, and that was the first time you
played this album to them. I wasn't here for that,
so I want to hear about.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Oh man, what was that?

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Like?

Speaker 3 (52:27):
It was really special. It was just like so.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
It was my first time really telling the story of
all the songs, you know, and it was just a
sobbing fest. Everyone was sobbing and everyone was crying. And
it's just another reminder that like, greatness is not one person.
It really is just so many things happening and aligning

(52:53):
to make something special.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
It's like the end of the night. Like when I
look around, I'm like, oh, the can't and those are
lit and like all the people in the room, the
fans in there, like the friends who've come, like our
friends who are amazing chefs who've come and made this
amazing meal for them, and like there's flowers around, like
you know, I didn't do any of this and my band,
Like there are all these humans who are so amazing

(53:18):
who come together to make something special happen. And when
you like make room for that and give space for
that collective effort to be felt.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Oh it was just.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Like and on top of that, just like the album itself,
we put so much effort into just the stories and
the truth of it that I felt like my job
was so easy. All they had to do was represent
the song. All they had to do was speak the
truth of what we wrote about and perform it that
way and move on like there was the greatest show

(53:54):
ever was already wrote before we started, and I just
had to step into it, you know. And I think
that's such a I think that's such a representation also
just of like for me, like as a performer, like
I have had a really hard time, you know, when
A I am carrying the weight of everything on my shoulders,

(54:14):
when I'm the one when I'm telling myself this being
fantastic all realized, all comes down to me. If I'm
not fantastic, it all doesn't matter, which is not true
at all. And the more I take that weight off
of me, the more fantastic it becomes. And b when
the art I've chosen to create comes from such a

(54:35):
truthful place, the show.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
You play is so much easier. It just like it
supports you.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
It feels like you just have the lift of the truth,
you know, and you can't rush that stuff.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
At the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
You cannot rush art and music and you have to
really allow it. And the fans last night they were like, hey,
you know, at the end of the show, they're like, hey, like,
if this is the type of music back with, take
as much time as you need. And so it was
so sweet. Yeah, it was so special for me.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, I feel like when I'm listening to this album,
it feels like I'm listening to a friend talk to
me about what they've been going through that we're catching
up on a call. Good and I'm listening to a
friend just hearing about what's going on in their life
and how they're thinking about it.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Good, That's that's perfect.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Then, that's how And I feel like that's it's so
beautiful And it's obviously so hard to do because you're
doing it at you know, everyone's feeling that way and
so that's not easy. And continuing our tour of the album,
you talk about you know, loving relationships, which is a
romantic relationship, which is such a big part of your

(55:47):
own journey, and we've talked about this. It's such a
it's such a sensitive part of our hearts, Like such
a like. It's almost like society has also made it
more more sensitive, like on such a pedestal, as I
often talked about recently. I was just saying this to
someone the other day who's going through something, and I

(56:07):
was saying that they've always overvalued and overweighted romantic.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
Love instead of just generated the general love.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
And you know, in your song in Between, you say,
if I'm not all in, then I'm all out, And
it's never going to happen. If it doesn't happen right now,
if it doesn't end with the ring, is it just sex,
If it isn't black and white, then it's onto the next.

(56:37):
I mean, I can't think of how many people can
relate to that experience, and how many people when they
hear that, are going to think, that's my life, that's me,
walk me through what you're experiencing, what you're going through,
and you're writing that.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, for me, I'm definitely one of those people who
has over put way too much weight on the romantic
part of love. Doing that has done to many things.
That's suffocated love. It has closed the door to any
other kind of love that I could be receiving. I
guess there comes a point where there came a point

(57:16):
of the last couple years, I was just like I
realized life is hard, Like this thing is too long
and too hard to like not just not just be
open to the love that's in front of you asking
to be received right now, you know. And that was
kind of what I was writing about there is isn't

(57:37):
it enough just to have someone.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Share a moment with you of love?

Speaker 2 (57:43):
And it's hard at first because it's like it's really
vulnerable to like allow that because all the things come
in is like is this romantic?

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Is this this? And is this going to be forever?
Is this going? What does this mean? You know?

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Is this weird because you're you're with someone and we're
having a beautiful connection.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
What is that? I mean? Is this bad? Is this wrong?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
And all of that can exist at the same time
and it's okay. And when you start making more space
for all that complexity to exist, like you start to realize, Wow,
there's a lot of opportunity for me to feel love
every day. And I have noticed that my fixation on

(58:22):
romantic love has dwindled, and I've just been so much more,
you know, I guess generally feeling that empty space of
love fill up. And that's just because I think I'm
more willing to receive it from more places, you know.
And it's tough too, because we have been watching Disney

(58:45):
since we were kids, and so we're like, where is
my forever? You know, And even in the song, like
you know, I have another song in there where I'm like,
you're the one and I live for this moment. It's
like I'm that like tickles apart of us, you like
love to hear that, and you know, to the end
of life, I'll be hopeless romantic like that, but like, yeah,

(59:06):
but part of me also has to just know that, yeah,
love can just it can really be there. You can
you can experience it. And if you just wait your
whole life for one person to give it to you,
you might be let down. And also you might just
that person might just be so might be so impossible
for them to feel that for you, you know.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
So yeah, I'm open to love, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
What's it been like for you having your romantic life
be so public and then when you break up it's public,
and then if there's a potential reconnection, it's public. And yeah,
I feel like that is kind of I mean, for
anyone I've ever interviewed, for anyone I've ever known, that
that seems to be one of the hardest things because

(59:53):
it's brutal for both people, fans, audiences, people in people's
pri life, like walk me through what that's been like
and maybe where certain songs felt connected to that experience brutal.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
It's I mean, honestly, I think Camille and I have
just done the best job at preserving our private little
fire of love for each other. Because no matter how
strong mentally you are, when there are millions of people

(01:00:30):
commenting on it, it's so hard not to be affected
by it and to be swayed by it, and to
be inspired by it, and to desire it because people
desire it, or to hate it because people hate it,
and it's just human. And I feel like her and
I have just like worked extremely hard to just protect
each other and protect that love, you know, And I've

(01:00:52):
learned a lot about that, and it's part of it.
It's definitely part of it, and there's no getting away
from that. But if I'm being completely honest, I don't
really I don't really go on social media anymore, so
I don't really see or care what people say about

(01:01:13):
my love life or my relationships because it's just it's
honestly too detrimental to the actual relationship itself that I've
become pretty strict on that part of it, you know,
But it is It's crazy, man, We're not in a movie.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
This is not a movie.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Celebrities are, you know, sometimes maybe they think they are,
and sometimes they literally are. But like it is in
a movie, this is real life. This is real love,
and love is confusing and hard and goes through dips, and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Goes through pauses, goes through breaks, goes through.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So much and so yeah, I really feel for everyone
who goes through that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I just feel like, as a celebrity, I just want
to just come at it and be really truthful from
the place of this is what love is like for me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
You know, what have you both done? And maybe obviously
speaking for yourself, what have you done to protect the
relationship in apart from distancing yourself from the noise? Yeah,
what else has been useful in protecting whatever relationship may
be in any faith?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
For me and for us, I think immense honesty, just
like over communication, you know, Like I felt this way
when I was doing this interview and I said this thing,
and I felt weird, and I'm sorry if it came
off like that, and you know, I love you and
that's my you know. It just immediately cuts through any
type of assumption that I could make or she could

(01:02:45):
make from anything. And you know, we're both amazing at that.
I'll be the first to text her, She'll be the
first to text me, and we just as long as
we're good, all the noise is just noise. And that's
been a huge part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Yeah. So rather than be like, oh, I hope they
don't see that, or I hope they don't, yeah, it's like, oh,
I'm just going to tell them what I was while
I was feeling that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yeah, and then how do you open yourself up to
receive that honesty when it isn't comfortable, let's say.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
I think it's also just a part of just understanding
the situation we're in as and not only as celebrities
but artists, you know, being two people that make music
and tell the story of the heart, and that's just
a big part of it, and we both are very
aware of that, you know, So just having respect for

(01:03:34):
the fact that we're storytellers, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Wow, and that takes a lot though, Yeah, that takes
it takes a lot of maturity.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
That's like a really mature perspective to have.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Yeah, And I mean we've been doing it since we're
very young, so I think at this point we're just
like we hopefully just have a great, deep, great respect.
So I don't think either of us would ever cross
a line. You know, we deeply respect each other.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
That takes a lot. Man, It's so hard to, like,
you know, as I've always said to you, you're an
old soul, because I'm like, I don't people like twice
your age, maybe even more than that, who struggle with that. Yeah,
it's so hard to actually have that perspective and understanding
and respect for someone's personal professional.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Yeah, you know, orbit it is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
It is, And it's hard when it's two people too.
It's easy for one person to do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
I'm just lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
She's an amazing human being and she's incredibly understanding and
thoughtful and caring, so communicating with her is not difficult,
and I think that's just probably a huge part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Yeah. Yeah, why does it feel sometimes that you can
have two people who respect each other so much, connect
so much, have so much admiration and love for each other,
but that it's not right romantically, Like, why is that?
Because you have this beautiful lyric that nobody knows that
says when you're so in love in your soul's touch,

(01:05:01):
but it's still not in love? Where does it go? Like,
I feel like that's something a lot of people have.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Been struggled with.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Yeah, that's a great question. It is a great question.
I don't have the probably greatest answer for. I think
that's exactly why I asked, where does it go? Where
does that love go? When it's so present? And I
think the best answer I can come up with is
just that love is a lot, but partnership is more

(01:05:33):
than love. And I think it has a lot to
do with how you support each other in your day
to day life and really being honest about who you
are and making sure that someone that you're with is
in support of that and doesn't have to bend themselves
entirely to be in support of that, and vice versa,

(01:05:55):
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
And I think.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
It's tough because you can go your whole life and
never feel that feeling of deep love again. And I
think it's just really complex. It's been something I think
people have been trying to figure out for a long time.
And I just think potentially, you mean, we've talked about
love a lot. I think potentially we're still all wrapping

(01:06:19):
our heads around love and we're still working through such westernized,
movie romanticized, dramatized versions of it. And if you go
to places that have been less exposed to that type
of thinking, then maybe love is a little simpler or
a little more I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
And so for me, like, I.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Just like, hopefully there's a little bit of both. Hopefully
you can have that spark and that magic and that love,
and you can also have that compatibility where your two
lives are working in flow with each other, you know,
and obviously you're going to have to bend here and there.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
But I think to a degree, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
I don't ask you or anyone because I think someone
has the an answer. I know. I don't I ask
because I think when people are navigating something, that's when
they have the most reflective, variegated view of it. Because
when you're actually going through it, yeah, you actually can
at least people can hear themselves in Youah, in your voice,

(01:07:18):
and that's what the song does. It's like people listening
to it going gosh, I'm am I with the right
person at the wrong time or is it the wrong
person at the right time or is it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
And it's a constant question. It's like a constant question
to be like, I mean that's also part of it,
is like not it's okay to be unsure, even if
you're unsure for the rest of your life, Like that
might be part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
And that's that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Yah, yeah, yeah, I mean the art of what you're
talking about in the album, what you talk about, what
we've talked about, what you're speaking about, it is just
this like how do we get comfortable with discomfort? How
do we get okay with uncertainty? Whether that's and but
that's like that is the hardest and like you said,
it's not something that you ever get to. It's something

(01:08:03):
you're constantly practicing, like constantly working on it. And I
feel like romantic love is the one that exposes everything
because there's love, there's envy, there's comparison, there's competition, Like
there's so many emotions that it kind of triggers out
in you. What have you done to manage your discomfort
uncertainty when it comes.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
To love, or just generally ill to both.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Yeah, both, yeah, both.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
I mean, I think it's it's a lot of therapy, honestly,
and I think for me, it's just I think everyone's different.
For me, it's really helpful to just speak as practical
as I can about each situation. This is what's happening,
and this is what's not happening, and this is what's
going on, and I'm feeling confused and all this is

(01:08:52):
just happening, and that's okay, you know, I think, to
be honest, it's like, I'm currently not in a relationship,
so I'm sure I can't wait to be back in
the love spins that all the emotions getting triggered and
all this stuff, because being in a relationship is really hard.
It's I think sometimes it's easier from the place of
being single to be like in a place of like hey,

(01:09:14):
like you know, find the balance, but like, once you're
in a relationship, it's much harder. It's well, once you
have something to lose, it's much harder to not have
a tight grip on it, you know. And so we'll
see when I'm back in that state.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
No, I love what you're saying, because I've always said
maybe I've never even said this out loud, but I
always reflect on like if forever, for whatever reason, and
not that this is indicative of anything that's happening, but
if for whatever reason, me and RADI were to ever
go our separate ways. It's interesting. I think a lot
of people would say, oh, but you told us you
loved each other. Yeah, and you told us you had

(01:09:50):
the perfect relationship, in which I have not. But and
I don't have a perfect relationship. I've never claimed to
have one. But the viewpoint becomes but you guys, like,
you know, Jay, you wrote a book on love, like
how could you break up with someone? And I'm like, no, no, no,
like that's life, like, that's reality, like, and I think
we have this view again clarifying there's nothing going on here. Yeah,

(01:10:12):
of course, I'm just saying it for an example because
I think it's so important to address these things, because
I think we have these very fixed viewpoints of what
something should be and what something should look like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
And I think it goes back to just like I
don't know, like maybe this sounds too idealistic or like optimistic,
but like I think it goes back to just finding
what you actually figuring out what it is you actually
want in life. Like for me, it's like, do I
want to be in a constant state of like I

(01:10:48):
have someone, I have this like this fiery thing that
always is mine and it you know, it's like more
of that like ownership that like desire, which is which
is super enticing and gorgeous and it's in itself.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Or like what is it that I actually want?

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Or do I want to feel just a general more
more love from more places? And do I want to
feel supported and like I'm growing and like I'm being seen?
And if you really ask yourself that question and then
you find an answer, you might not, but if you
find an answer, then you can start moving forward with

(01:11:31):
what your answer was. And for me, it was really
more of just like I really do want to just
like have a greater I don't want on my ex
to be in one basket, you know, because I don't
know how life can go. Like things happen, people die,
people get sick, people you know, fall out like I
and I don't want to be I would love nothing
more than to meet my wife as I walk out

(01:11:53):
of the store today, but like at the same time too, like, yeah,
I just want to until that moment, I'd love to
be experiencing love also, yeah, and I want to just
wait till then, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
So there's some fans outside waiting now ready to go. Yeah, No,
it's no. I you know what. That's what I've always
admired about you, and I I'm hearing it today. I
hear it in the album, like You've just always focused
on asking good questions. Yeah, and that's like your life,
Like that's who you are. And I think that it's
so funny because as humans, we get so fixated on

(01:12:27):
the answers, and we get so fixated on just a
few answers, so we ask the same questions, yeah, like
will I ever find my person? Is this the right person?
Like we asked the same questions, and we don't ever
get any better answers to the same question.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Yeah, there's no answer to those questions.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
There's no answer to this question. And what I've seen
in you is you're always trying to ask like this
wide array of questions that you know, like where will
it go? Yeah, like isn't because the normal question to
that will be like like so when you're so in
love and your soul's touch, but it's still not in love.
Where does it go? Most people would go, well, is
that love or not?

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Does that mean it was love?

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Yeah, exactly, but that's not I don't question that. There's
a zero doubt in my mind that love is love.
It's yeah, it's like where does all that love go to?
And I think that question itself is like, oh, that
love is still completely here and able to funnel into
the same person if they're willing to receive it in
a different light, or funnel into anyone else around you

(01:13:23):
that you love, you know. And but it's also like damn,
like that absolutely sucks. Like that there's just that is
just a it just sucks, you know. So I also
I also might have said, like, doesn't that suck? You

(01:13:46):
didn't you didn't But that's all I didn't know. But
that's something I would have read, Yeah, because it does.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Yeah, exactly the truth. Yeah, it goes back to your point. Yeah,
have the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
No, I really want to encourage people to you know,
and I'm going into my world a bit here, but
everyone who's listening and watching, I really hope this album
helps you ask different questions. Yeah, because I feel like
that's a real strength you have and I've learned through
being in your company. Man, you don't really ask the
same questions that we all ask. And I think that's
what's led you on this beautiful journey and beautiful path

(01:14:17):
and been able to look at the same things we
all go through but in a different lens. Is because
it's your ability to always zoom out and ask a
question that isn't the obvious one.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
Oh wow, thank you, And it's really.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Powerful and I love that it's through music. So yeah, sorry,
I went into a self development person.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Now, but hey, man, I'm right there. They all know that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Yeah, for sure. There's a couple more lyrics here that
I that I love because they're just so powerful in
the love and relationship space that I have to bring
them out this year this one. So but what about
the in betweens you lay your head on me living
for the next time that we touch. Isn't that enough?
Talk me through that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
I think similar kind of to what we were just
saying is if you're if you're always focused on the highs,
you might be waiting a while to receive something special,
you know, And all these all these beautiful in between moments,
like even like for me allowing myself to kind of
like love the moment before the show and after the

(01:15:23):
show and the morning and.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
All of that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Really it does one, it does a lot of things.
Actually takes pressure off of the show to have to
be such a big deal. And then it also just
helps me enjoy the day generally much more. You know,
if I sit there all day being like, there's one
important thing today and that's the show. That's basically one
and an hour and a half two hours of my day,
what about the rest of it? You know, I want

(01:15:50):
to enjoy the in betweens two because they are beautiful,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Yeah, because otherwise our lives just bookends.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
They're just our life. We look back, it's just the
highs and lows, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Yeah that well, like yeah, that's yeah. And I find
like it's also then your life becomes a waiting for yeah,
And so you're living in constant anticipation or constant anxiety
for something to end. Yes, And that's the only in
between you have. It's still linked to a beginning and
an end. So I'm in anticipation of when will that

(01:16:24):
good thing come? And then I'm an anxiety of.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
When will this good thing end? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Yeah, one last one which you go so vulnerable and
you say, where is it? Visions of a naked in
my head? Head? But I went off and shows my
self instead.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
Yeah, I mean that's that's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
There is a voice maybe you can call it a
voice or a feeling I think inside of us that
says sometimes like, this is what you gotta do. You
gotta do something hard here, you know, and our very
human side will do everything in its power to get
you not to do that, and it will just like

(01:17:08):
show you images and movies and the best plot you've
ever you know, seen in your life of the thing,
and it can really confuse you and just be like
what have I done? You know, if you are I mean,
I think a really common thing, actually I've noticed is
a lot of people who have recently been in a

(01:17:29):
breakup would be would tell me like, oh, like I've
been having dreams of them every single night for three months,
you know, And.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
I thought that was just me.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
I thought I was just I thought I was the
only one, and I thought it meant something. And I
think that it's really common, you know, just for our
it's part of the process of something and at the
end of the day, like I think we all we
can do is try to make the best decision that
we think is best for ourselves and accept that because

(01:18:02):
I'm not going to at the end of my life,
God's not going to appear and be like, hey, all
these things you did, those were the right decisions and
all these ones were the wrong ones. Like that's not
going to happen. I'm never going to get that. I'm
never going to get that. So I'm just trying to
understand that, Like, yeah, I think it's it's just expressing

(01:18:26):
that side of just like mental torment when you're going
through healing, that's just like it wants to.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Keep you somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
A big question I ask myself is like, when I
am struggling to move past something, I ask myself, like,
what is it that holding on to this thing or
this person or this way, What is that protecting me from?
Like what is that way of being protecting me from?
So many times it comes back to such a similar thing,

(01:18:58):
you know, And in relationships it's oftentimes just like oh,
this feeling of comfort, this feeling of I don't want
to be alone, you know, and the beautiful thing is
that if you can kind of move through those feelings,
on the other end, might be like a grander sense
of comfort from within yourself, but also a greater diversified

(01:19:18):
comfort from many people, and that creates a more consistent
sense of home and comfort. And it's just like, it's
just interesting how it all works.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
What about the torment of people who would say, like, well,
why can't you and come and just make it work
and just be together and just like come on, you
love each other so much. All the other side where
people would say, well, well, if it's not working, just
let it be, just just throw it away, just forget
about it, and you're kind of happy to live in
the torment of like I'm happy to be in the
in between.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
I think the reality is no one will ever know
what it's like to be in our bodies and to
feel what we feel and to know where we know
we're going, because oftentimes where we know we're going is
not something we can express through words to other people.
It's just a sense, a sense of where I'm headed,
and no one's ever gonna understand that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
So I just that stuff. There's just noise in the wind.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
For me. It feels like we're talking something so surface
here about something so immensely deep and complex that it's
not even worth my time to go into the answer
those questions, because there's not even an answer to those questions,
you know, And it's not a sense of I think
choosing to live in torment. I think it's exactly like

(01:20:36):
listening to yourself and trusting that. And I had a
friend who's going through a hard decision and they asked me, like,
I said, you just got to follow your intuition, Like
what does that feel like? And I'm like, well, I
can't necessarily. I'm like, I don't know, like a like
a little thing in your stomach or your heart.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
I'm like, I actually don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Like, but this is clearly exactly the moment that you
are about to learn what it feels like. And like,
if you can't find that sense of intuition, then at
that point, I don't know what guides us.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Also, if you're not sure, you might not be ready
to make the decision yet, Like there's a pressure to
make decisions all the time. Like, I understand you don't
want to waste people's time. I understand you don't want
to do the wrong thing prematurely, but like, some things
just need to play themselves out, and it's just I

(01:21:32):
think that's just a reality too, you know. So allow
yourself to get to that place, but don't let yourself
go over that place.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Please.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
I'm going to say this to you because I don't
think I've said this to you before, but but it's
an interesting reflection I'm having right now. I actually feel
with you. We get a sense of your old soul
when I ask you a superficial question and actually, like,
and I haven't tried to ask any profound questions today
because that's not my goal, but there's a beautiful simplicity
of you that comes out out because you would never

(01:22:02):
answer a basic, simple question in a basic, simple way.
And that's what I think actually kind of demonstrates where
your consciousness is, Yeah, in a beautiful way. And so
it's just the thought I'm having right now. I'm like,
I'm never going to ask you a profound question ever
again in my life, because that's not it for you.
For you, your your like essence comes out when you're

(01:22:22):
having like a conversation that people woul think is really normal. Yeah,
but you just don't look at it that way. It
doesn't make sense totally.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
I almost can't compute. It's like the thing happens in
my head where I can't compute surface and I'm like,
it's not computing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
You gotta get we gotta get under it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
That's how we get to see that you're not computing. Yeah,
And I only realized it while having this conversation. I
was like, oh yeah, like but but yeah, I wanted
to show you something because I sent it. You can
you'll probably guess where it's from, which I thought was
really beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Man, it's Tony crying.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
What was he crying about?

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
I probably a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
He's going through a lot of beautiful things in his
life right now too. But these are my people, Like
these are I talk about, Like an album is not
just about making music, if you let it, it can
also be about completely changing your life and the relationship
to the people you've made the album with. Like what

(01:23:31):
this has done for me and these guys, it's just
like they became friendships to lifelong friendships.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
You know, what does it feel like being in this
room ten years dude? Since like that to me feels
like such an incredible journey that we're getting to be
a part of here, Like to sit in here ten
years older you were what you were sixteen, yeah, fifteen
going on sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Yeah, I remember singing treat you Better in here, and
like I just was, I remember just like so much
inner torment and so much breakthrough. Like this is a
place of breakthrough for me. This is always where I'm
found the wall and I've broken through it and it's

(01:24:17):
just a magical little place.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
It's like it's like my version of Hogwarts here, you know,
it really is, and I can't I'm just so like
this this time around, Like what I've been really trying
to do is everything to be really have a lot
of intention of just like we're here right now, you know,
and we're upstate and I'm going to play a show
in a few days. Where I made the album. It's

(01:24:40):
like you have to work so much harder to curate
an experience when you just allow the story. You just
kind of let the story happen and support that, you know,
and it just feels like, yeah, I needed a lot
of holding and even even just through this week, like
the first little show I did yesterday, like I needed

(01:25:02):
to be in this room.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
This room knows how to hold me. And yeah, man, just.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
It's cool. I just love it here. I'll be here
for many more years.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
Yeah, I think I feel like everyone can find a
similar place like this for themselves. It may not be
a place where they record music, but a place that
they can turn to and come to and be held
by and be embraced by and feel rooted and feel nourished.
And yeah, I hope there's access is symbol to encourage

(01:25:35):
people to look for that. And it could just be
a little tree somewhere on a hike. It could just
what's your take on.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
That, Yeah, look for it or be open to the
fact that you might be in it and you might
know it very well.

Speaker 3 (01:25:48):
And yeah, it's just having a space.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
That holds the intention of the place you go to
lay it all out, you know, really like lay it
all out and break through and and struggle, and not
all studios feel like this. It's also a beautiful town
we're into like this town is special and being you know,

(01:26:15):
in nature, like that's just like in the winter, it
gets really different here too.

Speaker 3 (01:26:20):
It's a whole whole story.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
We've had rain and thunder, and every day it's a
beautiful I've been looking at it. Yeah, it was raining, Yeah, yeah, Sean.
You talked about your sister and I talked about mine.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
And Elie actually sent us a note.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
No way my sister.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
Oh no, I'm gonna cry already.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Is it? Yeah? Crash choked it up.

Speaker 3 (01:26:52):
Crash looked this up. Oh no, you're ready? Sure, so,
she says.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
Dear Sean, I want to start by saying a huge
thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you
for opening up your heart, being brave and sharing your
incredible gifts with all of us. Thank you for being
not just a beautiful human but also the most amazing friend, brother, son, mentor,

(01:27:22):
and artist. I'm truly at a loss for words to
describe how proud I am of you, how proud we
all are. Your music today feels like the most genuine
and authentic art you've ever created. It's filled with vulnerability, fear, diversity, patience, humility, pain,

(01:27:45):
and a sense of home. But above all, it feels
unapologetically and beautifully you. Watching you grow over the years
has been such a privilege. I feel extremely lucky to
be by your side as your little and to be
a part of this incredible process with you, You've taught
me so much about connecting with my own heart and body,

(01:28:08):
tapping into embracing my truths, and living with more love, perspective,
and abundance. I absolutely adore your eagerness to learn and
the way you listen so thoughtfully.

Speaker 3 (01:28:19):
Eagerness is a kind word.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
And I'll be honest, I really enjoy watching your unique
YouTube videos with you. Honestly, you're like a real life,
freaking cool superhero to me. Thank you for having the
courage to be imperfect and for sharing that with the world.
Your compassion and kindness, both towards yourself and others are
real superpowers. We all feel the depth of your connection

(01:28:45):
through your authenticity. It shines in everything you do, and
it's especially powerful in Shoran the album Low. This connection
you create through your music has helped me feel more
grounded in my own life, and I know or resume
with others in just as meaningful a way. It's like
nine hearts with love so deeply.

Speaker 3 (01:29:07):
Eliah oh Man, that's so beautiful. Thank you. That means
a lot. I love you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Lena oh Man. Yeah, she is my best friend. Like
over the last six months, we've just gotten so close
and my little big sister too. Like I think when
you start letting your little sister be your big sister sometimes,
you know, it's such a beautiful experience when you see

(01:29:37):
your pain turn into something beautiful. And then people start
to feel that way, and you got to believe people
when they tell you, you know, especially in people in
my life, like she would not say that if she
didn't mean it, even for you. And so yeah, I'm
just I'm kind of in awe of it all and
grateful for it all because although I was there every
day doing it like they're really was a greater thing

(01:30:01):
at play in.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Man, it's it's been the most healing thing I've ever done.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:10):
I really hope people feel that way, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean I wanted you to hear
it from her because I feel like we all need
to hear it. Yeah, we all need to hear it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
And you know, I can imagine that when you finish
an album, it's actually the beginning of then sharing it
with the world.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
And so my hope today internally was like I want
you to feel so much love, yeah, and so much
support and so much embrace so that as you go out.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
And I thought of it almost like this, like at
the beginning, it's this little spark that's so you know, tender,
and you have the people you really trust, and you
show them little clips of it, little voice memos, and
they put little they put their little twigs on it,
and that flame starts to grow. And then you start
showing other people and they put a log and I
almost imagine my team and my friends and my family

(01:30:59):
each place logs on this fire, and now we just
have this like massive bonfire going there. If there was
a hurricane, it wouldn't blow it out. And it's just like,
all right, now, we're good. Give it to the world.
It can handle anything, you know. And that's really what
it feels like. It feels so much greater than anything
I could be a part of.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
And but thank you. That's really so sweet man.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
I love you, man, I always have. It's really special
for me as well, because I feel like I've said
this to you, and I want to say out loud,
it's the You had every reason when I met you
to just keep doing what would have been the right
business decision, the right professional decision, the right artist decision

(01:31:45):
from a results standpoint, and I think your bravery encourage
at your age and the maturity to step back and
actually say, I'm going to go on a deep in journey.
And I don't even want to use the words find
yourself because that would mean that you've completed it and

(01:32:07):
now you're sharing it. So just go on a journey
of self discovery and adventure and then to come back
to this when you feel you're ready to share wherever
you currently are. It would have been so much easier
to just not think about these things in the short term.

(01:32:31):
And as I've said to you before, I've seen people
do that for three or four decades and then finally
figure it out. And the fact that you chose to
do it so young is an immense credit to your
incredible family, your friends, to your team and everyone around

(01:32:51):
you because you made the hardest, most difficult decision in
your position and so like happy to just see the
fruits of it. You too, man, because I still remember
so many conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
Of infinite all the little seeds that we planted of
like tension and love and hope and everything. It's all
just everything's blooming. We're standing in the farm of just
like like everything at the same it's almost overwhelming the
amount that starts to happen in the harvest, and it's

(01:33:28):
just yeah, this season.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
And I'm so humbled that you allowed me to not
only walk that parts of that journey, little parts of
that journey with you, but have this opportunity today too,
because it's rare that you get to live in these
cycles with people. Yeah, especially when we're so busy and
you know, and so I'm so grateful that this is
the first of our hopefully forever cycles. Yes, sir, I'm

(01:33:52):
with you all the way. I love you, rooting for you,
and thank you. Jy, I've got your back through it all.

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
Thank you, man, I know you do.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
Yeah, I really appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:33:59):
Man to man.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
We end every on purpose with a final five, which
are fast five. You have to answer each question and
one word to one sentences. Not superficial. I'm not like,
what's your favorite you start getting question questionable one, Sean,
these are your fast five. Questionable one. What is the
best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Wow, nothing's coming to mind.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
That's good. I like that already.

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
It all sums up in an energy. I guess more.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
That's just like anytime someone says something that just allows
there to be more space, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
To suck it up?

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Question number three, how would you define your current purpose?

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
I would define my current purpose with just being committed
to be the most honest version of myself in every moment.
You know, I have a lot of trust in what
that will do in this world.

Speaker 3 (01:35:26):
And I think.

Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
I've learned so much, like even just to be here,
I've learned so much about following my truth into the
dark and feeling like I'm letting people down, but how
that led me into creating a really beautiful healing album
and hopefully to how that will pick people up. And
it's kind of all part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
Question for is what's the message to the fans with
this album?

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
Sean and bring your tissues.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
I love you, guys, and I am beyond grateful for
your patience and your love. And it's a beautiful thing
to be growing up at the same time as you,
and so I hope a lot of the words and
the stories resonate with you, and I hope you feel me,
because I feel like we've been out of connection for

(01:36:14):
a long time. And I just always want to be
honest with you guys, no matter what, and so I
hope you love it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
A little offshore of that, why was now the right
time to come back for you?

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
There was a moment six months ago when Andrew and
a couple of people I love, they kind of like
were like, hey, can we just play you back some
ideas you've sent us that we think are cool. And
I was like, they're probably not. And they brought me
into a room and they played them back, and I
was like, these are kind of cool, and it was
just very obvious to me that, like I gotta go try,

(01:36:51):
you know, like I think oftentimes people wait for inspiration
to fall into their lap before they try, and then
sometimes you got to go in there and chop with
and water for a few days before inspiration strikes, and
you know, three days of like why am I here?
I should not be here, I'm not ready to be here.
The fourth day inspiration strikes. Six months later, you forgot

(01:37:12):
you ever were shopping wedod and carrying water. You were
just enjoying yourself and making art and it just changed,
you know. So it's the right time, I guess, just
because it is.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
Did you really want to leave in those first three.

Speaker 3 (01:37:26):
Days, desperately.

Speaker 2 (01:37:27):
Yeah, And it's funny how quickly I forgot I wanted
to leave, and how quickly it just turned into passion
and inspired to make something beautiful again, like almost like
a night and day difference. That's how inspiration works sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:37:45):
Yeah, feel the fear and do it anyway exactly. Yeah,
you're not going to wait for it to be free
of fear and then take the step.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Yeah, no, no, no, The fear is like the greatest thing
because you're scared of something, and that's something is probably
something worth writing about if you're a writer.

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
You know. If some final question, we asked this to
anyone who's ever been on the show. The question is,
if you had to create one law that everyone in
the world had to follow, what would it be.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
The law would be to say what you really feel,
you know, but to say it in a way that
doesn't really hurt people, but like to speak the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
You know, speak your truth. You're going to get so
much further.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
I think with that that'd be a horrible law though.
And Lars, yeah, I'm gonna get arrested if I don't
say this, man, but that hair does not not your
hair right now.

Speaker 3 (01:38:38):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:38:40):
I love that. Yeah, Sean, thank you, my brother. I
appreciate you. Yes, it's been beautiful. It's been a lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:38:45):
Fun, Yes it has.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
It's been emotional. It's been deep and raw and vulnerable,
just like the album. And I can't wait to see
you perform live. I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 (01:38:54):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode
with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how
to speak to yourself with more compassion.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
My fears are only going to continue to show me
what I'm capable of.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
The more that I face my fears, the more that
I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I
just want to keep doing that.

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Host

Jay Shetty

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