Telepathy Tapes Creator Ky Dickens Reveals Shocking NEW Evidence on the Link Between Telepathy and Non-Speakers with Autism

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:25):
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Speaker 2 (00:45):
It was remarkable to be in that room and see
someone reading someone else's mind over and over and over again.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
When you see it, you can't unsee it.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
One of the best remote viewers was the Burbank Police Chief.
Cia was in his office and saw that he had
like marked on the map where submarines were.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, that's alarming. How did you listen to the telepathy tapes?

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Non speaking children on the autism spectrum are able to
read the minds of people.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
It is mind blowing. Have you heard the Telepathy Tapes?
I hope that you go listen to these tapes.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
You want to watch a mind blowing documentary.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
You need to see this. Hi is the host of
a new podcast series called The Telepathy Tapes.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Please welcome, Kai Dickens.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
How would you describe or explain what telepathy actually means?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Telepathy historically is reading someone's mind. You know exactly what
they're thinking. That's what I thought this was at first.
Parents started saying right away, this isn't just your telepathy.
We think we might be sharing a consciousness or no
languages that they've never learned. Well, how is that possible?
Or tell the future and accurately predict something that's going
to happen. The amount of messages parents were telling me
that they were receiving from the other side through their

(01:52):
child was wild. I think we are working with consciousness
coming in from somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
What have you found in your research looking at animal intelepathy?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
That is a beautiful element to this. There are mental
fields around certain animals.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
As you can ask you about the connection between dreams
and telepathy. Has there been any connection there? The Number
one Health and Well Inness podcast Jay sheety Ja shetty Ly. Hey, everyone,
Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you've come to

(02:25):
become happier, healthier and more healed. Today's guest is someone
that I'm really excited to talk about. These are the themes,
the ideas that I really want On Purpose community to
get exposed to. Their conversations that I believe we should
be having, need to be having as humanity, and they
push us forward. They challenge us, they maybe make us

(02:47):
feel uncomfortable, but they propel our thinking forward. And today's
guest is none other than Kai Dickens, an award winning,
acclaimed filmmaker and podcast host known for diving into complex
social issues spark change. Kai is the host of The
Telepathy Tapes, which is a new podcast going absolutely viral.
If you don't know about it, I don't know where

(03:08):
you've been. Kai digs into the incredible abilities of non
speaking individuals with autism, uncovering mind blowing stories of telepathy
beyond different dimensions. The series invites viewers to challenge their
ways and rethink what communication really means and what the
human mind is truly capable of. Please welcome to On Purpose,

(03:30):
Kai Dickens. Kai. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, it's so nice to meet you. And I want
to dive straight in. And the question I want to
ask Kai before we get into it is who were
you before you dove into the Telepathy tapes, before you
dove into this work. Tell me a bit about who
you were, what you believed, what you valued, and what
your system of thinking was.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I was a social justice filmmaker, so I was working
on documentaries that were really diving into complex socialis issues
right to drive change, so whether that was healthcare access
or paid family leave, affordability and access, just things like
this that were not in the spiritual realm at all.
And I've always been very curious. I've always been a seeker.
I've always had a deeply spiritual side of myself that

(04:16):
was a bit gun shy around organized religion because I've
also seen the pain that's caused. But I was just
plowing forward with doc films that I was trying to
make a difference around and the Celepathy tapes. Entering that
world and being immersed in the lives of non speakers
for the past three and a half years has completely
altered me. Every fiber of me, and it's made me

(04:39):
see the world entirely differently.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Can you tell us how you first discovered it, because,
like you said, your work was somewhat different to what
this is now, and I want to know how it
first came across your table.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
So as a documentary filmmaker, what often happens is before
you even get funding for a project, you might be
working and researching and immersed in this world for two
I mean for months, if not years, right, and so
you have to really love what you're looking at and
right in between. After my last film, I had just
moved to California, was trying to figure out what I
was going to do next, and then I lost to

(05:11):
very good friends in the prime of their lives, like
the type of people that you know they lost, they
left kids behind, just unbelievable people.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
And I had a friends stop by to bring flowers.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
And she's not deeply religious, she's just very well read,
and I would say she's spiritual. And she said to me,
you know, they're just right here. And I'm like, what
do you mean, they're just right here? And she's like,
they're just right here, And I thought, how can you
say that with such conviction?

Speaker 3 (05:33):
And she said, you just start reading.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
If you start reading, you'll see that all the material
is out there around where we're going, what we're doing,
what this all means. A lot of research has been done.
She knew I had kind of had a science mind,
and she goes, so just start looking. So I made
a commitment at that moment. Okay, I don't know what
I'm doing next for my next project, which I thought
was going to be a film at the time, but
whatever it is, I want to answer these big questions.
I don't want it to be about social issues in

(05:56):
America anymore. I want it to be about human issues
and why we're here and what we're doing this all means.
Because I was trying to figure out where are my friends?
And I started diving into books about animal consciousness, plant communication,
Ian Stevenson's work around reincarnation, and children and was reading
everything I could get my hands on. And that also

(06:16):
included listening to some podcasts. And there's one I loved
called The Cosmos and You, and they had an interview
with doctor Diane Hennessey Powell, who was a neuroscientist JOHNS.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Hopkins educated Harvard.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
She'd worked at Harvard, who had been studying widespread claims
of telepathy in non speakers with autism, and something hit
me like a lightning bolt. And I always feel, I
deeply believe that as something is intended for you, it
won't miss you. And in that moment, I just thought,
this is whatever is here, this is it, this has
the answer.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
And I think part of.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
It too was my brother's high functioning on the spectrum.
And the thing that I know, just my own experience
with autism is this sense of telling the truth. You know,
there's not a lot of jockeying for ego driven purposes.
There tends to be a deep truth telling, which is
one of the most beautiful things I think about autism
and some respects. And so I felt the messengers in
this case are the most trustworthy and unassuming.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
So that kind of led me down this path.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Had you always felt that way about all your projects
before as well? That there was always this very.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Clear I think most of my films that are self driven,
you know, there are some that are work for hire,
someone just has you directed, but the ones that I
generate tend to be deeply personal, deeply specific. I'm trying
to answer or heal something, but There were two films
that I've made where I remember or projects where I
would actually start praying through it, like if I'm going
to die, just please let me get to the finish

(07:42):
line of this, because I'm intended to do this. If
I don't make it, then it just feels so big.
And this was one of those. There was two my life,
and the first was my first film, Fish out of Water.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
In this one, well.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
To describe for someone who doesn't know anything about this,
how would you describe or explain what telepathy actually means?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Telepathy historically is right reading some of mind.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
You know exactly what they're thinking, so or you could
hear their thoughts as though someone was speaking in And
that's what I thought this was at first, and I
thought there could be a scientific explanation around the You
know when often a site is a muted other senses heightened,
and in.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
This case, it feels a lot deeper.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
And in fact, a lot of the parents started saying
right away, this isn't just sheer telepathy. We think we
might be sharing a consciousness or there's some sort of
merging going on. It feels deeper and much more complex
and simple mind reading.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Wow, And is it mind reading their feeling everything from
as I've heard and seen of like numbers and places
and letters, or is it also emotions and feelings and
what are we seeing that spectrum there?

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, and I think you know again it depends on
the individual. But from a lot of the non speakers
I've met, I'd say the gift could be varied. There
are some parents who will say, my child will know
exactly what I'm doing during the day when they're at school.
They'll know what I'm thinking, where, when, who I met with,
and what is that? That's not to lucky, that's something bigger, right.
There's some parents who say, if I one of my

(09:07):
favorite stories is one of the non speakers once you
start communicatings knew all the things there was to know
about Harry Potter or different books. And the parents thought
how And this individual said, I read them through my
sister's mind when she was reading them, and so just
really fascinating things. Is that mind reading or is it
like fully? And then there's been teachers who say, my
students have said that they can see through my eyes

(09:29):
or hear through my ears, and it feels as though
when they might be using my neurology in some way
because their neurology is unreliable. It's helpful and grounding to
utilize mine. And so I'm just telling you what other
people have told me, and the reports are varied and wide.
But something I've heard from many teachers in particular or
parents is that like, sometimes the thought will occur and

(09:50):
it's like, well, where did that thought even generate? Which
makes you wonder like is it coming? Is consciousness coming
from a different place and we're tapping into it together.
The parents and teachers who are in this world, they
just have so many questions like what is this? Because
it does feel bigger than typical I'm reading your mind telepathy?

Speaker 1 (10:05):
So dwait, did you reach out to doctor Powell? How
did that go?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (10:08):
So yeah, I reach out to doctor Powell and I said, look,
I'm a filmmaker, I'm very interested in what you've been uncovering.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
I'd love to get to know you.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
We did a few zoom calls and then I flew
up to meet her, and it was wonderful because one
of the first things I did is I wanted to see, like,
what's the scope of this? And I asked if she
wouldn't mind reading some emails off from parents, and of course,
you know hippolaws.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
She can't show me the names.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
But I saw in her inbox like the folder of
so many emails from parents, and I thought, good grief,
this is like really big, and.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
She started reading some of the emails.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
And of course, I think anyone walking into this has
a healthy dose of skepticism. I mean, telepathy seems like
a superpower, and the Spider Man movie doesn't feel real
and so but these parents, one after the other, were saying, look,
I didn't believe my wife, and I tested this myself,
and I'm a doctor, so I couldn't fathom this. But
this is real, this is happening, And so many emails
from people like that. It's not that they were and believing.

(11:01):
They were coming to doctor Powell with their own questions
around how is this possible? Can someone answer this for me?
And they were coming in from all over the world.
At that point I realized that like the only place
these people had right now was doctor Powell's inbox, that
most of them hadn't ever met each other, and it
felt like the strings weren't being tied together yet, you know,
and doctor Powell has her own practice, like she's a

(11:24):
researcher and scientist. It just felt like this was so
much bigger than honestly either of us, and certainly the families.
And then I started meeting some of the families. Doctor
Powell introduced me to a few, and I wanted to
find one that she'd never met before, never tested to
test myself. So same thing like it's hard to believe,
and I wanted to not to pick the place. I

(11:44):
wanted to bring my own cues, set it up, make
sure that we covered anything reflective so that we could
test this and see if it bears out. And it
was remarkable to be in that room and see someone
reading someone else's mind over and over and over again,
to the point within like an hour we were like,
this is not boring, but just like it became okay,
she could do it cool, like let's try this, let's

(12:05):
try this, let's you know, just kept kind of pushing
the envelope, and this young girl Mia could read her
mom's mind. Anything we showed her mom, she could tell you,
you know. And then I have more families and more
families and kept seeing it over and over and over
again to the point where now. I'm like, well, that's
self evident, and I think the parents are there too,
it's not. They're like, we don't need anyone to prove
this is happening. We need to know why this is happening.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's their question. Yeah, how would these parents discovering it
in the first place? What was there? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean, I think to me is like the most
beautiful and part of the stories.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
It's really based in love.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
I mean, for so many of these parents, they have
children that are diagnosed with something that is often like
very hope stealing in terms of the diagnosis, and I
think often there's doctors telling them your child will never
be competent, won't learn beyond this certain level, they might
not connect with you, they won't ever speak, And I
don't think these parents are given much hope. And to

(12:58):
love someone without getting a lot of you know, physical
or verbal feedback around like I love you, thank you
back is very difficult. So it's the ultimate sacrifice these
parents are making. And so many of them have been
told again their child will never speak. And somewhere along
the line, most of them, people at least that we've featured,
have discovered spelling to communicate which is a method for

(13:20):
non speakers to communicate by pointing to letters. And that's
a gross motor skill, whereas talking is a fine motor skill.
So if you can't talk, it's okay if you can point.
Often these parents would see this and think that's not
my kid, because my kid is still you know, banging
their head against the wall or maybe even smearing feces,
just really difficult behaviors, and these parents are thinking, there's
no way it's my kid, often like the deepest leap

(13:41):
of hope, not wanting to have your heart broken again.
And these parents would try bring their child to learn
to spell, and it's often time consuming and such sacrifice
and such practice, and their child get there. And there's
a point which is called getting open on the board
where you're not just answering a yes or no question
or filling in a blank, where you start driving the
conversation yourself.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
And when these children became open.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Pretty soon thereafter, they started saying things are about being
able to read minds or knowing what their parent is thinking.
And of course when you first hear that, there's kind
of that like oh wait, wait really, and what happened
in most of these cases that the parents would do
some tests and do their own experiments and then end
up with a ton of questions search about this on
the internet. Up until now, there's nothing about it out there,

(14:27):
and usually they would find doctor Powell.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Did doctor Powell ever explain why this specifically existed for
non speakers?

Speaker 2 (14:34):
No. But I think what a lot of parents believe,
and I think teachers too, is that most of the
non speakers that were featuring have apraxia, which is where
your mind and body are not connected. So if you
have a praxia control your behaviors, that doesn't get you
very far. Because that's a big thing. I want people
take aways like, this is not about autism. I never
talk about it as being about autism. It's about a
praxia and not being connected to your body. Yeah, that's

(14:56):
the that's the thing that's missing. And in fact, a
lot of parents are like, I don't think I could autism.
We have this big wide tent of how we diagnose this,
and people say it's autism, but no, it's a praxia
and that's the mind by disconnect. So a lot of
it is like the diagnosis could be totally wrong too,
And that's when I realized, Okay, this isn't just like
a telepathy thing, this isn't about a biological heightened sense.
It felt to me and this is why I landed,

(15:19):
is that this is a spiritual gift and it's a
and there's a bouquet of them that for some reason,
the non speaking individuals with a praxia the mind body
disconnect seem easier to tap into. Then during COVID, they
had to self teach their children at home, and then
they were shocked at how much their kid knew. But
no one ever spent the time to because these a

(15:40):
lot of the teachers might not have thought these people
are in there either. So COVID was a huge motivator
for a lot of these changes when where parents saw
my kid is in there NI can spell.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Has there been any examples of any parents who weren't
communicating with their non speakers And then maybe through your
work or doctor powers work kind of become aware of
this and then tried to experiment and experience where they
didn't realize that they speaking child could talk to them
in this way by spelling for sure.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I mean, we've had our inbox has been the most
delightfully joyful thing because so many of the emails we're
getting is our people being like, I did not ever
think my child could spell. I didn't think they're in there.
And then I heard these other stories of parents who
felt the same way. And now I'm getting my child
to spell. But the best ones are I mean, they're
not the best ones, they're all the best. But another

(16:31):
really fun thing that we're getting our videos from parents
saying my child is spelling. I never thought in a
million years are a helpathics. So then I started doing tests,
and we tested with four numbers and here's the video.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
They could do it.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
And here's nine numbers and they could do it. And
here's twenty two numbers and they could do it. And
so those are really fun that parents are suddenly doing
like telepity tests with their kids. And then the other
thing that's really beautiful is there's parents who, having listened
to the Fluppity tapes, I think their children realize, Okay,
my parent has opened to this. Just like you, you're
not going to go talk about something to someone if
you think they're going to judge you or be scared

(17:00):
of you or whatever. So what we're hearing a lot
on the ground from parents and teachers. Is that because
they listened, the non speaking student or nephew or child
in their life suddenly feels safe saying, hey, I can
do this too, or here's what's up, or here's all
of me. Let me invite you in. And they've said
that the world has just expanded in this beautiful way,

(17:22):
knowing that that like it's a safe space now to
be fully who you are, which includes those gifts for
some nonspeakers.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
So up until now, what kind of responses of those
questions met.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I don't know if science has like fully done all
the reason they haven't done any research on this really
yet to my I mean, that's not true. There's been
telepathy research and PI research and precognition research that's been
happening for a long time which is pretty conclusive. And however,
the gifts of the non speakers, I think this is
a new frontier for science. And that's one of the

(17:53):
ethical things that I think everyone needs to consider greatly,
is like how do we research this?

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Because what I have found and if.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
You think of like a Jane goodall right, like the
way she did science is she'd go spend time for months,
you know, with the chimps until she finally observed what
their life was really like because she immersed herself in it, right.
And it's like, if you're going to go watch a
beautiful lightning bug sinking up in nature, you wouldn't bring
them into a lab.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
You'd go and watch and immerse.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
And my plea is that scientists will take off their
lab coats, pick up a letter board, learn how to
do this, immerse themselves with a non speaker, and they
will see and experience and can ask the questions because
I think the non speakers have a lot to offer
and they can talk about this themselves what's going on.
But I've been hearing a lot of chatter online about
like put them in a far day to cage and

(18:41):
put them in two separate rooms and do this, and
it's like, I don't know if that's going to be
the most beautiful, helpful, empowering way to research this.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
I do appreciate your insight on immersive observation, especially. I
like your analogy of thinking about it as if you're
watching something in nature and you have to see it
in its own space and its own habitat and its
own environment where it naturally functions and isn't put into
this space. And I've always felt and known that there's

(19:11):
so much more that we're capable of that we don't know.
How do we draw the difference and distinction between this
and intuition and some of the other things that we
may be more familiar with as a society. How is
this so different?

Speaker 3 (19:26):
I don't think it is different.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
And I think that all of these things which you know,
I have learned are called sigh abilities PSI, I think
come from the same place. And in the telepathy tapes
in episode six, we really look at the science and
how our world has been understood, and everything is this
framework of what we call materialism, this idea that what's
real is what can be observed and measured, and materialism

(19:51):
has dictated our thinking for centuries, and most of materialism
is right. I don't think it's wrong. We shouldn't throw
away our textbooks entirely. However, at the very tippy top
of you know, after you have physiology and biology and
psychology and all the things that make up our material world.
At the tippy top right now, we've consciousness, and no
one knows where it comes from and why it's there.

(20:11):
And what I think the theory that many people before
me have put forth and then I believe it. So
I put this forth in the selepty tapes, is that
consciousness isn't at the top of the pyramid of our world.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
It's at the bottom. It's fundamental. It comes first.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I mean everything in this office was a thought first,
none of it was real, and then the thought came after.
And so if you think about it that way, and
that consciousness is fundamental, then telepathy, siabilities, precognition, mediumship, all
these things that seem like woo a little wooby wooby
all makes sense because our truest truth is non physical.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
How do you define consciousness in that context?

Speaker 2 (20:50):
It is the foundation. Consciousness came first and the whole
physical world came after. It's not that the physical world
came first and consciousness came after. And if we just
invert the try trying gole, keep everything else the same
in the materialist world, just put the consciousness from the
top to the bottom, then we can explain all of this.
And if anyone was out out there is like I

(21:10):
want to look into this more, you could look into
remote viewing.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's one of the most easy to.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Validate sihabilities, which is being able to see something at
a location where you're not and the CIA use that
for years.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
We know that that's been de classified.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
You know, what do you mean, tell me a bit
more about it.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well, I'm this is one of the books I read
and like trying to understand all of this is there's
a great book by an author named Annie Jacobson. It's
called Phenomena, and what it was about was the declassified
papers from the CIA about their projects Grill Flame and
Project Stargate programs, which was really active in the seventies
and into the eighties where they were using remote viewing

(21:47):
and because the Russians were and what that was is
they found that some people were extremely good at if
you could give them a line of longitude and a
line of latitude, they could sit at the Stanford Research
into Suit, California and tell you draw a picture of
what was there? No way, Yeah, And it's fascinating. And

(22:07):
so they did a bunch of research around this and
how this is possible, and they would put some of
the best remote viewers under the ocean in a submarine
to be like, okay, well we know waves can't penetrate
that deep of water, Like, so what is this skill,
Like is it still possible underwater because telephone signals aren't right,
cell phone signals aren't like most signals can't go through water.

(22:28):
And these remote viewers were significantly accurate, like statistically so
that they could still.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Find targets when underwater.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
And there's been so much released on that program. Yeah,
and I think one of the best remote viewers was
I believe a Burbank police chief and someone Fbioca was
in his office and saw that he had like marked
on the map where submarines were. Well, that's alarming. How
does this guy know where the submarines were? And he
was like I could just see him. And he became

(22:58):
one of the best like remote viewer in the program.
And they did some of these quote unquote telepity tests,
tapes of these telepathy tests with another man named Uri Geller.
They would have him draw what was in a closed
box and he was pretty accurate. And so if people
want to read that book, like that's a great gateway
into this that shows something is happening, something is real.

(23:20):
And this program went on for a long time and
they say it's expired.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
I think it's probably.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Still going on in the United States government, but that
was remote viewing and using psychic abilities.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Are there any other programs or things you've come across
like that that are used in the modern world in
a less spiritual space.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
For sure, Russia, China, the United States have been looking
into these siabilities as very real elements, and of course
they're trying to use it for warfare and spying.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
I know that there's a lot of people who will
teach revote.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Viewing and map dousing, where you try to go figure
out where something might be located on a map, and
some people are really good at that. It could be
like the ancient whatever aqueduct is here and they can
help you find it, and like, these are things that
have map dowsing has gone on for thousands of years
where people will know what's underground.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
How. I don't understand how, but it's a real thing.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
I did not understand how remote viewing could work, and
so I went to a workshop one day because I thought,
I wonder if I could learn this. And this was
kind of like right in the heart of like me
trying to understand everything, and I was just immersing into
anything I could, And so I went to like a
workshop where they.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Try to teach you how to do this.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
And I was with one of my close friends and
they said, Okay, we're going to do a remote viewing experiment.
We're about to pull a slide up and you all
have to draw what's on the slide. And I was
like a slide, Like, that's not even like in the
physical world that we can like maybe see how's.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
That going to work?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
And so all these everyone's close, you know, trying to
clear the mind, and people. After ten minutes or whatever,
I look at some of the drawings. It looks like
people were drawing like these big circles and stuff. And
what I was getting in my head was like draw
a tree and like a little bit of water and
the word green and a bird and a son. And
my drawing looks so rudimentary, like something a four year

(25:06):
old wuld draw. And then all of a sudden they
show what it was and it was a peacock. And
I'm like, okay, so I had bird and green, but
I don't think that counts. And then my friend turns
over her paper and on her paper was a tree
and a son.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
She wrote the word green. She had water.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
We had the same picture I have a picture on
my phone and that's when I'm like, Okay, I don't
know what's going on here. For we're remore viewing of
her and I just crossed paths and there was like
real telepathy, like we sunk up whatever signal it was.
Her and I had the same drawing. And that's when
I was like, this whole thing is really mysterious. And
I finally understood what the parents were talking about, because
I was like, did we both tune into the same

(25:44):
signal or were we sharing and influencing each other?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
But that was an astounding moment for me that made
me believe in things like remote viewing.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Have you and your friend ever tried doing that again?

Speaker 3 (25:56):
No, I should ask her.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, yeah, that would be really fascinating to sit down again.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, it would really be awesome to try that again.
And for me, the biggest shock was again I thought, okay,
we're setting telepathy. We can do these selepathy tests. We
can prove it or you know, validate it. I guess
there's no proof in science, but validate it. And that's
what I thought was But then when I was immersed
with so many these wonderful human beings and families. The

(26:21):
thing that I started seeing and that they start talking
about quite quickly, especially the non speakers, is no, this
is bigger than selepathy. So many individuals can also no
languages that they've never learned, Well, how is that possible?
Or tell the future and can accurately predict something that's
going to happen and sure that could be coincidental or
maybe it's not. Or had information about something they'd never learned,

(26:43):
be it math or science or even spiritual information. And
so many others were talking about seeing beyond the grave,
like knowing people and bringing messages through, and that was
totally disorienting for me because that was all new. I
didn't think any of that stuff was possible. Individuals talking
about rocks that had powers. I mean I came into
that being like.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Wait what, Yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it.
Where it's it's so hard in our material world to
give space for invisible thinking. Yeah, because like you said,
everything that we look at is so visibly measured, visibly real.
That's how we function as a society. Then almost when
these ideas start to seep in, it starts to become

(27:26):
very challenging. And certain ideas have found their place in
the Western world. When you look at things like astrology
and so coming from an Eastern background, astrologers who have
incredible abilities rarely exist anymore, but those that in India
had these abilities. Like you've seen the Western version of
astrology evolve, and it exists in some capacity in our world,

(27:51):
but you find most of these ideas kind of fall
by the wayside and don't really have a version, or
like a lot of astrology can be and is labeled
as woo woo or just you know, made up or
meant to make people feel safe. What was it that
gave you so much trust when you were doing these
tests yourself, that gave you a sense of confidence from
being someone who, in your own words, you felt, well,

(28:13):
it's not that you came from a spiritual background or
this what you're open to. And all of a sudden
you're like, no, I believe this. What did you see?
What did you experience that you were like, no, no,
this this is legitimate.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
And I think the most important thing for anyone walking
into this world is forget about the telepathy, forget about
all that stuff like meet the people and when you're
talking to parents, in particular, who are stretched thin. They
have so many just daily challenges with working, you know,
just helping their children, but actually battling for their children

(28:44):
every day to get the education they need, the supports
they need, the care they need. And for these parents
who have so much love and so much sacrifice, and
yet there's this other dimension of what the heck is
going on and their sincerity of just like, we know
this is happening, can you just help us? Unders and
why when you start hearing that from parent after parent
after parent who don't know each other, it's pretty clear

(29:05):
there's not a mass conspiracy going on. And so meeting
the parents, loving the parents, I mean, they truly are
the biggest almost they're the love warriors on this earth
right now. And then meeting the non speakers with just
such honesty around what's going on, there's no it's not
for them. This is just life here. I'm going to
talk about this, I'm gonna share this, I'm going to
talk about this. And that became convincing and then and

(29:28):
then so I think I walked in trusting the parents,
trusting them on speakers, believing that they were telling the truth.
And then I think when you are coming from it,
from a place of belief and trust, it's so much
more likely for these things to unfold. You know, a
lot of I think, not just me, but scientists would
say like love is the basis of a lot of

(29:49):
these sigh abilities. If anyone ever has had this moment
where something went wrong, it's because you love that person,
you felt deeply something happened to that person.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
We have accounts of that from all over the world
in history.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Or you're thinking about someone you care deeply about in
the second that the phone rings and it's them. I mean,
these links are I think based in love, and they're
not that rare. We've all had that phone telepathy. And
I just want to say this really quick too, because
I think that that belief as a as a measure
of like being able to experience and see some of
this stuff. There is space for that. In science, we
have the placebo effect that's part and parcel of every

(30:21):
major medical study because it's real belief and believing in
something helps and changes the outcomes. I think if you
to walk in with the non speakers and think, I
don't believe this possible, I don't think you're gonna see much.
But I think when you're like I trust you. I
trust what you're saying is true. I think people are
much more likely to be themselves and show their full

(30:43):
self and to LUPII is part of that.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
In this world, I.

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(32:13):
you see when you spoke to doctor Powell? Like, what
did she see from a scientific point of view that
convinced her that this was real? What research had she
found that made it feel so legitimate to her as well?

Speaker 2 (32:25):
You know, I was so impressed with doctor Powell. I mean,
she's a real thoughtful scientist in this regard, And she
was studying savant syndrome at first, and savan sympdrome is
really interesting, and I mean her big thesis is esp
should be considered a savans skill because science as a
whole legitimately is the savants that you might know a
language or music or math without being taught or exposed

(32:46):
to it. And that's pretty wild. How does that happen
if you haven't taught it? And so you speaks in
the same realm, right, like you know something you shouldn't know,
because how how could you know the future?

Speaker 3 (32:56):
How can you someone's thoughts?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
So could you tell us what esp oh?

Speaker 3 (33:00):
ESP is an.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Extra sensory perception, so a sense of knowing something without
your five senses.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
So she was studying savant skills, and what was.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Fascinating is some of the parents who had a quote
unquote savant, which is a troubling moorden of itself for
a few reasons we can talk about later. But like
we're saying, actually, I don't know if their savant. I
thought they were because I thought they had every book
on my bookshelf memorized. But then I'm learning no, I
think they can see through my eyes or I think
they're reading my mind. And she heard that enough times
that she started studying that and lo and behold in

(33:32):
the studies she did. She was seeing what I saw,
which was the spars out. Unfortunately, because so many of
our scientific institutions are rooted materialism and the journals and such,
it's really hard to publish papers on this to get
grants to do the research around it, to publish a
book on it. And when she published a book and
was on her book tour, suddenly the board said we're

(33:52):
taking your license away because we think you must there
must be something wrong with you.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
And she had a petition.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
She had to go through psychological testing to prove that
she was of sound mind, and then she begged them
to look at the book and they realized, oh, this
is sound science and she's sound. Okay, you can have
your license back and you can do this, but the
trauma is done because you've had to pay a lot
of fees. It hurts your reputation. It comes up on Google.
And so I think for a lot of the scientists
who are on the cutting edge of this too, they've

(34:21):
been harm because for me, I believe that at the
baseline for science, you should have a freedom of inquiry.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
You should be able to ask a question and see
where it leads.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
And as a society we need to ask ourselfs, well,
what is going on if you can't ask a question
because people are afraid of the answer. I mean, that's
troubling and us also limiting because as humans, this is
really exciting that there is a very real, non physical world,
and I think that's what everyone actually cares about at
the end of the day, Like don't we care if

(34:49):
that has implications for where we're going and why we're here. Yeah,
so doctor Powell, she saw the truth of it, but
she also ran hard into the deeply skeptical materialist society
and science world.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well kept her going, I mean.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
I think the same thing.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
I mean, she laid low for a while after that,
you know, and then she actually retired when right before
the telept the tapes came out. She's like, I don't
want to be fined again. I don't want to deal
with all this, and she was ready, but she was like,
this is not worth it. So I think what kept
her going is kind of the same thing that you know,
when I hit upload on that first episode, I was like,

(35:27):
I might destroy my entire reputation as a documentarian, as
a human being. I don't know what people are going
to think, but like this is true, and it's this
truth is worth it. And I think doctor Powell underwent
that when you see it, you can't see it. When
you're in the room and you experience it, you can't
unexperience it. And when you meet these families so full
of love and truth and earnestness that are just like

(35:47):
someone tell us why no one is listening? You kind
of want to carry the burden for them. You shouldered
for them, because you're like, you aren't crazy, You're telling
the truth, like someone does need to listen. And I
think doctor Powell felt that urgency of like, I will
carry your torch. And then I met all of them
and I was like, I will also carry your torch.
And now I think there's a lot of listeners carrying
the torch, which is.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, definitely. There are so many people that I've been
speaking to about it with since I've been listening, and
the conversations that it's starting are actually the most exciting
part for me. I think the curiosity that it's sparking
in people. I was trying to think about, actually, when
else in society, when have we had that kind of
resistance to something like I don't know if you've looked back,
and I'm sure with your research mind, like, have you

(36:28):
looked back at times in society where we would have
been like, no, going to the moon is ridiculous, it's
never going to happen. And then we do it right,
because that in one sense is outside of our visible
world to some degree in terms of before you could
see it or now when we talk about, you know,
building life on another planet. It's become normalized because Elon
Musk or whoever will talk about these things publicly. So

(36:50):
often have you looked at any other times with things?
Oh for sure? You know?

Speaker 2 (36:54):
And there's that quote, all truth goes through three stages.
First it's ridiculed, that it's violently opposed, and then it's
accepted a self evident And I feel like that's one
of these moments. And you know, there's when Mendel first
said that jeans cause disease. I mean that was like
a big moment where people were laughing at that. That
seems silly, like little things would go into and make
you sick. Now it's self evident, you know. It's the

(37:14):
flat earth, Like people believe the Earth was flat for
a really long time and then it wasn't, but people
like clung to that.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
I mean, there's still few.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
But I think about the materialist science of now and
I'm like, I wonder if in a hundred years they're
going to clinging to the materialism.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
It's they're going to look like the flat earthers. You know.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
But even when the Wright brothers first launched their plane,
people didn't believe it.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
They didn't believe it unless they saw it.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
They had to go on a tour and fly their
little plane all over for people to believe it.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
So it's not this.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
I think this happens with any big leap, whether it's
in science and spirituality or whatever it is. And and
this is just this is the blowback, the anger, the confusion,
the trying to find like you know, the character assassination
is going to come from anyone caring that that's happened
throughout history. That it's just part and percel when you
bring in big news.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I thing, yeah, for sure, for sure. And I'd almost
think that it's at like a perfect synchronicity with all
of our developments in AI. Like you know, we're at
this precipice where it's like AI is the new frontier
at a very basic level. Everyone's now using chat, GPT,
and then we're looking at what singularity could look like,
and we're looking at the tech horizon of all of

(38:26):
this advancement. And it only makes sense to me that
at the same time we need this other side that
we're also seeing these advancements in our spiritual understanding and
our spiritual exploration. And I wanted to ask you, like,
so far with doctor Powell's work and what you've seen,
what has been conclusively defined or when people asking the
question why is this happening, what do we know, if

(38:49):
anything right now of why it's happening.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
I don't think we know yet right And I think
it's because there's been such a lack of funding. I mean,
that was one of the hopes with slaptly tapes is
to get doctor Powell some funding, and she's gotten funding now,
which is great, and you know, I know she wants
to look at some MRI scans and some QEG scans
and that's important because she's looking at from the brain stuff,
which is what a neuroscientist should be doing. And I'm

(39:12):
interested in doing like really good telepathy tests that are
visual for film. And so many scientists have been reaching out,
which has been beautiful since this has come forward, being
like I want to work out a experiment or research
and so I'm trying to get on board with our
team non speaking science advisor to kind of help and
then do a roundtable with a bunch of the scientists

(39:33):
who all have big ideas, bring some of the non
speakers in and have a conversation about like what can
we test, what should we test, what would be helpful,
what are the limitations, and kind of go from there.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Why do you think it's so important? What do you think?
I'm intrigued to know what you think it would unlock
for us by discovering the answer behind this? What do
you see?

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Well, again, I think it's more than just telepathy.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yes, agreed. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
And there's a teacher who has been at this longer
than doctor Powell or me I'm in Wisconsin who will
constantly say I think there's a sharing of consciousness.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
I think there's a linking.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
And that's a curious question because if that's the case,
that means that consciousness is coming from somewhere else and
that we like can beam into it.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
I mean, I don't know, Like if you think of.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Our body as a television set, right that will animate
and all this stuff, but that's it's like we don't
carry the signal. The signal is coming from somewhere else.
That's one view of consciousness, Like that is one possibility
and I think the non speaking telepathy pairing that happens
with a teacher or a parent. If we could test

(40:36):
through a QEG and figure out is the message coming in,
Like this is a brain lighting up at the same
time in the same place, we might be able to
learn something.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
I'm not a scientist, so I want.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Other people to carry the torch and figure out the experiments,
and I hope to create for the film, like we're
going to make some spaces where non speakers and researchers
and scientists can talk about it, and then I hope
the science just goes forth in a comfortable way for everyone.
My biggest concern, of course, is exploit of not speaking
individuals in their families, Like it has to be in
a way that feels really safe and good for them,

(41:06):
and some families want answers. Some are just like, we
know this is happening, This is great, this has changed
our lives. Everyone has to volunteer and do what's comfortable
for them.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
But I just my goal goal.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Was to get this out there and so that people
would listen to the parents and hopefully believe them.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, when you start doing the tests, I remember you
saying that you were seeing like a ninety five percent
success rate, which is extremely high. What were you seeing
in the five percent that was inaccurate or incomplete?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, And I'm smiling when you said that because, like
I said ninety five percent, because it just felt like
the more sciencey thing to say, like it.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Was actually pretty much like one hundred.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
But like when I talk about the five percent, it's
because they're spelling to communicate. So sometimes if like they
were if Pony was the thing that was on the
flash card, maybe they spelled like pp it hit twice,
oh and y or something like that, where it's like
can we count it? We won't count it because there
was a p hit twice, so we would discount it. Again,
I'm not scientists, but in like my human mind, I

(42:02):
was like.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
That counted, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
So there is that element where it's like they wrote
the thing it would be it would be a tactical
air like that.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah right, oh wow, So it was it was literally
things like spelling.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Basically it was like yeah, or a double tap a
double tap? Yeah, well yeah, it'd be a double tap.
I remember when we were doing one clep at the experiment,
there was a production assistant that was like walking around
with Dorito's and then every time they entered room at
the room with the Dorito's, it's like the test would
get disrupted, like most of the word would be spelled
like bicycle, and then you would be left off because
it'd be like Dorito's are here, you know, and so

(42:36):
stuff like that. We didn't count it because all bicycle didn't.
But again, like the science they part was like, Okay,
we can't count a bicycle because the whole world wasn't spelled.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
But like the human being in me.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Was like she just wrote bicycle and then Dorito's game
in the room.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
And what about some of them that could see colors
and letters around numbers? Where was that coming from?

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, I mean so there's something called synesthesia, yes, and
that is synesthesia, right, you see colors, different senses get
tied to different things with non speaking individuals, it's really
beautiful and interesting and again like broadbrush here. So but
some of the people I was talking with, like one
girl says that she sees the colors around each letter,
so she doesn't have to see the letter board because
she's pointing to a color.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
So that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
A lot of non speaking individuals say they see auras
not just around people, but around plants and cut flowers,
and they'll see that the aura drifting off as the
cut floor of flowers dying around rocks. And again it
wouldn't be just one individual, it'll be many saying these things.
So at a certain point you're like, Okay, things have
auras and there's colors, and it tells you how if
someone's good or bad or angry or whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
I mean, it was just beautiful the amount of information
that was so articulate and so profound that was being
shared across the board.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
You've dedicated three and a half years to this now, right,
do you feel like it feels like your purpose? It's
become something? That's so I mean, to dedicate three and
a half years is a long, long, long, long time.
And the celebrity types and fairly recently like just around
the holidays or whatever, and to see the incredible success
they've had, but it's been so much study and time.

(44:09):
What I want to know your emotions and feelings throughout
this three and a half years, and then whether it
feels like your purpose now?

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I mean no, I think everything my life has
led to this. I think everything has and it is
fully my purpose for being here. And I'm so humbled, like,
what a wonderful, wonderful purpose. And I don't know if
purpose is given to us from somewhere else or if
it creates your purpose, but like my favorite book is
Victor Frankol's Answers for Meaning, and I love that. One
of the beautiful takeaways in that book, right is like

(44:36):
the meaning of life is whatever gives your life meaning,
and nothing ever to come across my path outside of
the people I love, like my you know, spouse and kids,
but beyond that, like nothing has given my more meeting business.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
It's it's to me.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
It's answering and picking through the most complex important questions.
So like, what a humbling, beautiful gift to just have
fallen into this beautiful.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
What meaning has it spoken to you for you? So?
What questions has it answered for you? Or what questions
has it made you ask? That you find it so
meaningful for us to know?

Speaker 2 (45:09):
You know, for me, it was really appealing of the onion.
And first it was seeing the telepathy over and over
and over again and being like, Okay, I don't need
to ask that question, that's fully happening. And then I
almost feel like the parents would let me in on
things as they thought I was ready.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
So even hearing and understand that Houston, one of the
individuals and to the telepathy tapes, understands that feels rocks
so deeply, and that was something that I always just
shrugged off. Okay, So if telepathy is real and Rocks
truly give off you know, energy and frequency, what else
have I dismissed?

Speaker 3 (45:42):
That's real?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
So I started finding that things that I just shoved
away as like that's impossible, this is fake, or these
are Charlton's or frauds.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I started coming to terms with everything I'd ever just
ignored or dismissed in life and reevaluating it.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
So telepathy like yes, okay, rock.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Crystals Now I'm like, okay, I have crystal things on
my wrist, Like it's like, yes, those have a powerful thing.
And then non speakers talking about the other side. I mean,
that was something that came up a lot. In fact,
that often is the first thing before telepathy is this
person's here, Auntie has this message for you. You know,
this person is telling me not that you tell whoever

(46:22):
in India not to buy this land. Because that land
has a bad well on it. And I mean just
the amount of messages parents were telling me that they
were receiving from the other side through their child was wild.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
That was relevant to the parent's life, that.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Was so relevant, that would bear out that there's no
way their child would know. So then it started making
me think, Okay, we don't go away like there were
here something like it's consciousness survives. I think all of
it was a cognitive dissonance of now. I fully believe
that SIA abilities are real, that consciousness survives death, that

(46:54):
we are all intimately connected, that love is the baseline
for everything. And I think I see and on speakers
as my teacher, not the other way around. I mean,
there are all of our teachers. If people just take
the time to listen and meet them where they're at,
and I think what they would say is love is
the most important thing.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
We have it all wrong.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
We're all connected, it is bigger than any of us,
and that these spiritual gifts are in us all.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah. I mean, the Eastern traditions describe consciousness to have
three qualities, such chain ananda, which mean full of knowledge,
which makes sense to what you're saying. Now eternal, endless,
and full of bliss love. And so when you're saying
that even through your discovery that potentially consciousness, the idea

(47:40):
that there's greater consciousness where there's knowledge, your message is
being inferred that comes from that full of knowledge. The
idea that you're saying consciousness doesn't die. Use the word there,
I've forgot it. But this idea that it's continuous and
that continues to exist is the eternal part. And then
like you said, it's founded on love, is the full
of bliss. So those qualities actually seem to match very

(48:03):
coherently with the Eastern spiritual traditions of understanding what consciousness
actually is. I've always been excited about science catching up
with spirituality, and so I love when science can prove
the value in spirituality and beliefs or practices that have
happened for hundreds or thousands of years. And I've seen

(48:26):
it happen with mindfulness and meditation, where you know, these
practices have been around for thousands of years. In today,
mindfulness and meditation are no longer woo woo and made up.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
When meditation was first being studied, it was kind of
ridiculed as being.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Woo woo, even when I first started practicing it, Like
I first started practicing meditation around two thousand and seven,
and if you talked about meditation to someone in two
thousand and seven, they didn't really think it was that valuable,
or they thought it was just made up. Or if
you told someone that breath work was a way of
calming yourself down or you know, reduce negative thoughts or anxiety,

(49:01):
people would have laughed at you. And so I've seen
it happen with a few things, and I've always been
excited by when science has been able to have the language,
the tools, the vocabulary to talk about these ideas. I
was just back at the monastery that I used to
live out in India this January, and I had some of
my most powerful meditation experiences nearly twenty years after I

(49:22):
first started meditating. And it's hard to explain, like it's
hard to put into words, and you know, you can
often feel and I'm sure you know the nonverbal children
they probably feel as well, like how little they can,
even you know, through the written word, actually explain what
they're experiencing or what they're going through. And we can

(49:43):
all identify with emotions and feelings like that, even if
we don't believe, no trust what's going on. I think
we've all had experiences we're like, I have no idea
how to explain this, or I have no idea how
to put this into words. I've always wanted that marriage
between science and spirituality, where science will actually look to
spirituality for what to look into. Me and Andrew Huberman,
who's been on the show a few times, we'll always

(50:05):
talk about a lot of the practices he suggests and recommends,
like starting off your day looking at sunlight, which kicks
off our circadian rhythm and keeps everything in harmony and balance.
Suria Numashkara, which translated his sun salutations, is an ancient
practice of looking at the sun when you wake up
first thing in the morning, and how that was the
way to get your body invigorated. And so you see

(50:27):
these similarities in these ancient practices that people have done
for thousands of years. They may not have said, oh,
it's about the circadian rhythm, and you know, they didn't
talk about it like that, but they were these beautiful
practices in every tradition that existed because of their value
to the human body, the human mind, and the human spirit.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
It's beautiful and it's all correct. I think you're right,
and I think science is catching up to some of
the stuff because when you look back and things like telepathy,
if you go to most native you know, groups of
people are still around and thriving. I think they would say, yeah, duh, yeah,
you know, the sense of being stared at is real,
like often like remote Viewington, where the hunt is is real.

(51:10):
These are things that were part and parcel of survival
for individuals, and we feel removed from it. But it
doesn't mean that it's hasn't always been there.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, exactly. And while there are naturally as always people
who've exploited or lied or pretended or Charlotte whatever in
these traditions, naturally as there are in everywhere science included
and everywhere else, it's almost like those people exist because
the real thing exists because there's someone who can do

(51:42):
it for real, and then someone's trying to, you know,
do something with it. Exactly, But that's usually how it works.
You only get this a terrible example, but that's when
my mind's going, You only get fake Gucci handbags because
there's real ones, right, And that's the idea with research. Right,
you only get fake something when the real thing has
been existed or experienced, and you make the fake version
because you don't know how the real one exists.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Right, absolutely, And I think you take something that probably
has the most amount of quote unquote Charlatans and the
most amount of skepticism, like mediums.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
However, like the Windbridge Institute, Forever Family Foundation, there are
groups out there that will like double triple blind test
individuals to be like, these are the people we've tested,
we've tested, we've tested, we've they don't even know who's
the sitter versus blank blink, and they've come up with
a list, you know, like fifteen percent of the people
they tested were the real deal according to these tests.

(52:32):
So I think that's what's a good reminder for people too,
is if you look into a lot of this stuff,
some of the people there are organizations and institutions out
there looking at the science trying to vet the best
from the best, and you can do it, Like, if
you spend the time to do the research, you can
figure out if it's real and who's the real deal.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Why is all resistance so deep? Like why are we
so stuck in our ways? When it comes to these ideas,
and the same is probably truecientific and technological advancement too.
I think, you know, I recently spoke to Bill Gates
and he was talking about the idea that computers would
exist in every home. Was just bizarre, like people people

(53:10):
are like, that's ridiculous, Like, no one's going to have
a personal computer in their home? What's the need? Right?
Was that was the opinion that people had, So I
don't think it's I actually don't think it's just spiritually,
I think innovation, any form of innovation, yes, meets that
kind of resistance. Where where does that come from? Why
is it that we're so resistant? What have you seen
from human behavior and people you've come across?

Speaker 3 (53:33):
For sure? People resistant to change?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Right.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
We like our status quo. It feels safe. We like
feeling safe.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
But I think when it comes to siabilities, usually it's
so vulnerable. Right to think that someone could know your mind,
or connect with the other side, or tell your future,
I mean to be had. When it comes to something
so personal, so vulnerable, it's like the worst thing ever.
It's like telling a secret and have someone stabbing you
in the back. It's just to lay bare your soul,

(54:00):
that someone's actually being a good steward of like your
deepest secrets or connections and lying about and profiting off it.
I mean, there's like nothing grosser. Profiting off of vulnerability
and trust is just the worst. And so I think
that's why people are really skeptical. They want to make
sure that this stuff, which is good, like we people,

(54:21):
shouldn't be profiting off of people's vulnerability. But I think
these skills are real, and I think most of them
probably can do it.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Have you felt that spending more time with the children,
the families and everything. Are these abilities that those of
us that mere mortals and normal can develop and build
and grow or are they things that are reserved for
specifically the non verbal speakers.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
No, I think that everyone probably has these in us
to a certain degree, just like some people are excellent
basketball and some people can barely shoot a basket. So
I think that it depends on the individual. Like telepathy
seems so remarkably hard how your I read someone's thoughts,
But I will say the thing that it was the
hardest episode for me to put into the world because

(55:05):
it felt so unbelievable, but I knew it to be true.
Because I witnessed it was that there was a huge
amount of teachers, like a lot of teachers who were
saying that after working with especially usually one student that
they were really close to, they were able to start
hearing them back. So the telepathies at going two ways.
And when I first heard that, I was shocked, and
I was shocked that it wasn't a parents. I mean
it has some parents have said this has happened to them,

(55:27):
but a lot of teachers where like I will hear
their voice in my head, I can hear their full sentences,
I can hear what they're thinking and what they're about
to spell, and it goes the same way. And so
some of these teachers have told me it's so powerful
now that we can sit next to each other and
have a nonverbal educational period and I'll ask questions and
they'll write, or they'll ask questions, and then I hear
it back and there's no they don't even have to spell.

(55:49):
And when I first heard this, I thought, what like
can that be? And then I heard it again and
then again and then again from people who don't know
each other. And then I heard a woman who was
a team you're on a podcast reporting this, and she
thought she was the only persons that ever happened to
the world. And I remember reaching out, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
you're not alone. Like, I know, it seems like a miracle,
but this is not. You know, how's that happened? And

(56:10):
I don't know, but I wonder can certain people help
us turn it on or like rip off the block
in our brain? And I don't know if the non
speaking individuals these teachers were working with help them get there,
or if you just clear your mind and you're in
the space with someone in such a beautiful special way
that we can all do it.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, I mean I often wonder also whether science will
ever be able to measure a lot of these experiences
in phenomena in a way that makes sense to everyone.
I often wondered that whether some of these things are
just the way they are. And like you said, because
our scientific tools have been built to measure that which

(56:50):
is material and seen, how can we measure something with
the tool that's meant to measure something that's seen that's unseen.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Anyway, the most beautiful comment I heard from a non
speaking individual about that was they were like, well, why
are you all trying to measure telepathy with your instruments
was exact wording. And I was like, well, to prove it,
And they're like, well, why aren't you trying to prove
love in a lab? That is the most special and
strongest power. It will cause people to jump into a
choppy ocean or to pick up the car with such

(57:19):
adrenaline if their child is trapped, Like love is the
greatest superpower, that's the biggest superpower. Why aren't you trying
to measure that in a lab? And I was like,
I guess I don't know why. I don't know why
we're not measuring love. Has love been measured? But that
was the equivalent in their mind of like us trying
to measure telepathy. This person was like, this is just
part and parcel of this, like love, connection, communication, almost survival,
right if you can't speak, can't communicate, like beyond spelling,

(57:42):
that it can be a lifeline. And I just thought
that was so beautiful because there are certain things that
you just accept, and telepathy might be so hard for
some people to accept, but if you're living it and
breathing it, it's part of your bouquet of what you
need to get around in the world.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
It might seem silly to measure.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
What have you found in your research looking at animals
and telepathy?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, that is a beautiful element to this, I think,
and to me it really helped helped me believe everything more.
I think that there are mental fields around certain animals.
We see this in schools of fish. How are they
turning at the exact same time, right, and certain like
murmurs of birds who are basically have like the same
mind and there is this idea of like, are they
all kind of connected to a greater mental field of

(58:25):
consciousness that is helping control their movements. Rupert Childrake, a
biologist from Cambridge, talks a lot about this and he's
written books and done incredible research on the animals. Pets
knowing when their owners are coming home and they'll put
cameras around and page somewhat the office, so it's always
they're coming home in a different time, in a different
car from a different place, and they have cameras and

(58:45):
see that. The dog will go stand by the door,
and in some cases cats, and if there's a flat tire,
something happens, or this person gets called back into the office,
the dog will go back and sit down, and then
the sink and their owners heading home again, they come
back up. So there seems to be this telepath thick
link there. And one of my favorite stories that we
share in the Telepathy Tapes has to do with elephants.

(59:07):
And there was a conservationist who was trying to get
you know, some rowdy elephants into an animal preserve. And
after a good amount of time, this man's name is
Lawrence Anthony. You know, he really worked to get the
elephants trust he made their safe space. It was a
huge amount of land and he hadn't been i think,
in touch or seeing these elephants much in the last

(59:28):
few years of his life. And then one day he died. Well,
the elephants all kind of gathered and walked to his
house from where they were and they all kind of
show up right around the same time, and they stayed
for a few days mourning. And it was remarkable for
his widow because the question is how did these elephants
know to go and do their mourning ritual how? And

(59:50):
the story doesn't end there. Every year on the Anniversaro's death,
and this went on for a few years, the elephants
would leave what they were doing and go to his
house and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Hey, their respects only on that day.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
On that day, it took them a while to get there.
They had to walk a few days to get there.
But yes, they knew exactly when he died the first time,
and then they would pay their respects thereafter for a
few years on the day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Of his death.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
And so to me, it's like, if you have a
hard time grasping telepathy in humans, look at the animals,
because we're pretty closely related, you know, And there's just
some beautiful treasures of stories of this telepathic link expressing
itself in nature.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
One thing that really stood out to me was I
think you said that the American Speech Language Hearing Association
says that spelling is not a valid form of communication,
and they call it a pseudoscience. And I was like,
so that's interesting as well. Why is it considered that way.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
There is a history here for sure, And I think
the first thing that kind of made the stigma around
spelling really take hold was with facilitated communication, Where facilitated
communication was the first Oh my gosh, visuals are spelling
that people thought were locked inside and could never spell,
and that required like touch and the use of touch

(01:01:07):
became problematic, I think, especially with some people who weren't trained,
because some awful court cases erupted from consent that wasn't
given right, horrible things that happened through through this form
of spelling. So then spelling evolved into rapid prompting method
and spelling to communicate. And now the speller's method where
no touch at all, I mean you cannot touch it as

(01:01:29):
like a tenant of that. And when you sit in
the room with a speller, it's really remarkable to watch,
you know, because they're not being touched.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
They're spelling.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
It's clear they're pointing directly to where they want to go.
It's not like a struggle. The parent is certainly not
going like this, you know. Often it's completely like rooted.
So it's really difficult that that stigma exists because these
individuals are having to prove constantly I'm in here, my
words are mine, I authored them, and that's really hard.
But I will say that this is not a new thing.
Sign language took over one hundred years to become accepted,

(01:01:57):
even in the sixties.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Yeah, I won't me through that. I didn't know that.
I learned that through listening like, yeah, one hundred and
fifty years, Yeah, sign language took to be accepted. Yeah,
what would the steps? Do you know that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I mean, I think people were saying it wasn't a
real language, there's no grammatical structure. The rallying cry was
that anyone who is deaf should learn to read lips
and try to speak basically fit into our world. We
are not going to allow this language to take place.
Same thing happened with braille. Louis Brailed, the inventor of braille,
kind of modified this language where you could use dots

(01:02:29):
to communicate, and it was considered it was outlawed. They
weren't allowed to use it in school where he was
going to school. When they finally did a big test
to prove like one person who was blind was going
to spell something and another person was going to read it,
because the kids were using it like quietly, even though
it was like outlawed in the school. And when they
did that big test with viewers and people to watch,
the first big claim was they're cheating. They practiced an

(01:02:51):
advance to pretend what they were going to write. It
seemed outlandish that you could read dots with your finger
and spell by poking holes into something, and so Braille
went through the same dilemma. And so I think like
this control of how we use language, who's allowed to
use it, and if it's valid is not new, but
it's really unfortunate because that is a human right to communicate,

(01:03:16):
to say what you want for dinner, I mean, the
most basic things. And if anyone out there is critiquing
this without seeing a speller in action, I just think
it's like a crime because you are trying to steal
a voice from another living human being.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
It's really mean.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Yeah, I mean, what do the skeptics think is going
on in those homes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
There's a lot around the tests around spelling right to
prove it's like efficacy have really changed throughout the years.
So at first it's like, okay, no touch. Well, okay,
there's no touch.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Now sit further apart. Okay, sit further apart. That's working.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Then it's like the parent shouldn't look at the board. Okay,
well we won't look at the board. Then it's like
then can the parent leave the room? Well, there's something fascinating,
which is why I think it's really important that this
whole telepathy bit is getting out there because I think
a lot of people who work with spellers, and there
are some spellers who are absolutely independent, like they're rock
and roll and they're off to the races and it's a.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Journey and it's a evolution.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
But there's certainly many spellers I've talked to who say, like,
I need a person nearby, a trusted communication partner. And
I don't know if it's the physiology is grounding them.
I don't know if it is that it's helpful to
use their eyes. I have no idea what it is.
But there's this beautiful kind of meshing that happens, especially
in the earlier parts of the journey that are a

(01:04:30):
bit inexplicable, and if you try to test it, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Going to be like how do you explain that?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
And I don't know, But it takes two people to
do sign language, you know, you can't do it alone.
And so if this partner, and it doesn't always have
to often people have many partners, right, There might be
some communication partners at school and it work and with
a parent, But if that partner is needed to be
somewhere in the space to ground you, why does it matter,

(01:04:54):
I mean, why does it actually matter if they're typing
on their own with their finger, new thoughts, self diagnosing,
talking about things other people don't know about. I mean,
it's clear they're in there and they're communicating their thoughts.
Why it is that someone might need to be in
the room to help them do it, that's a science
question that I can't answer. I think it has to
do with physiology. I think it has to do with energy.

(01:05:16):
It might have to do with like using someone else's
like frequency to help you just stabilize. I have no
iight or integrate with your body.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
I don't know what it is. I don't think anyone knows.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
But people are asking the wrong questions because they're trying
to test test test tests this and not looking at like, well,
why is that link needed to make spelling work? But
certainly the individuals are typing their own thoughts, often self
diagnosing their own care spelling things that the spelling partner
might not know about. This fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
What's been your If you had to pick a couple
of favorite stories or experiences that have really stayed with
your relationships you've built with some of the parents and families,
and I mean speaking individuals that stand out to you
that you shared on telepathy type.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
So every day is a bit of a it's a
beautiful thing. And I think about even now that we
have a film team working on this, that they are
starting to send their stories with Like my producer just
wrote the other day and she's like, I just met
this mom and then her daughter walked in the room
and knew my name and where I lived and what
my child's name was, and like why I hadn't said
any of that and how did she know that? And

(01:06:23):
I was like, exactly, it's welcome, you know, welcome to
the party, and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
And like one of my favorite memories was once there's
a mom that was trying to get a hold of
me and I was busy on like phone calls and
I wasn't able to answer, and I was a little concerned,
like maybe it's an emergency.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Fast forward, it's like lunch.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
I walk out of my home office into my kitchen
and I'm making lunch in the phone rings and I
was like, oh, your timing is perfect, and she's like,
I know, I know, I just I just was told
you walked out to get lunch and stuff like that,
where it's like oh my goodness, Like are they remote
viewing me sometimes, you know, which is fine.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
So there's just it's it's like it's of magic every day.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Yeah. I'm not claiming to have any telepathic abilities, but
I have this habit of whenever I think of someone,
I always messes them, even if I don't need anything
or want anything. And nine nine percent of the time
when I think of someone, I don't want anything or
need something, yeah, so I'll just message them and say, hey,
I'm thinking of you and you know, sending love them
here for you. And nine to nine percent of the
time someone will mess me back and say I was

(01:07:21):
just thinking about you, yeah, or I need really need
to try now whatever it may be. Now, whatever that is,
I always love the magic of being able to send
that message, whether it mis met with a positive response
or not. Yeah, And it's just a beautiful thing to try.
And I think I just love that your work is
making us more curious and opening us up to these ideas,
because that, to me, is the part of us that's

(01:07:43):
missing when it comes to spiritual innovation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
You know, Mark Twain talked about he called it mental telegraphy,
and this was his observation that often you would write
a letter to someone you haven't thought about in five,
seven years or you know, and then the day that
you postmarked it, you'd receive a lot or seven days
later or whatever it was postmarked the same day from
that person on the other side of the globe. So
it's like you both had like the physical male proof

(01:08:06):
of when you sent the letter. And Mark Swain marveled
in that, as one should. And Upton Sinclair, who wrote
The Jungle, I mean, you know, beautiful writer. And one
of his books that he wrote after he had gone
through his life was called Mental Radio, where him and
his wife did a bunch of telepathy tests together and
they documented how accurate they were. And I love the
opening to that book by Upton Sinclair because he's like,

(01:08:29):
this would be the type of thing that should be
dismissed or you should you know, is held with such
high skepticism. But what he said is, after I've experienced it,
I know this to be true. And I loved his words.
He wasn't like I think this is true. It was
I know this is true. So this has all been around.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Yeah, what about as you can to ask you boy,
the connection between dreams and telepathy. Has there been any
connection there. Have you come across anything between those?

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Well, I mean, I think for people who are deeply
interested in that. We have an episode on that, which
is episode eight of the selepty Tapes, which I encourage
people to listen to an order. But there was one
mom in England and I wanted to we have a
spelling episode all about spelling, and that's episode eight where
we go into the issues around spelling. But I thought
one of the best non speakers to highlight in that
episode would be someone who never learned to spell and

(01:09:16):
him and his mom have a telepathic link together, but
it's formed in their dreams where he brings her into
a lucid dreaming state the first time it ever happened.
I love this story. He was younger, I think he
was maybe like eleven or so. Came to her in
a dream and she thought she was dreaming, and then
he gave her an ace of spades and did this

(01:09:36):
whole thing like look through the ace of spades, and
she like woke up into a lucid dream and then
he started talking and telling her all this stuff and
remember this in the morning, and they're going to tell you.
I need you know, antibiotics, but I need probiotics and
blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
So she woke up in the morning and thought, oh,
I just had a dream and he was talking.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Didn't think anything of it, and then he went and
saw her the next morning, grabbed up ace of spades
from a deck in the other room and like, show
did what he did in the dream. And that's when
she she realized, oh, my goodness, he came to my
in my dream and was talking there and that's how
they have deep conversations and they actually start writing music
together that way. She didn't know he was a musician
until he was starting music therapy late in his life,

(01:10:12):
I mean in his twenties. Once you discovered that, he
started coming to earn dreams and being like this is
a melody or these are the lyrics, you need to
write this down. And now he's I mean, he's pretty
well respected musician in England. Wow, it's all through dreams.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
It's incredible. And one of the things that I came
across listening that I wanted to know more about is
John Paul and Lily and that connection. Can you explain
that to the audience who may not have had it yet.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
I mean there's a non speaker featured in sy tape.
His name is John Paul's episode four. He's episode four,
and he's ginormous. I mean he's almost he's like almost
seven feet doll. He's a huge individual. And he had
a girlfriend named Lily. They would letter board, but they'd
often say when they were letter boarding it was for
like everyone's benefit around them, that most of their relationship
was telepathic. And John Paul's mother used to say it

(01:10:58):
was really funny because they would go on like dates
at her house, and like they'd be on different floors
and she'd be like, are they even hanging out?

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Like what is this?

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
And then she would leave and John Paul would be like,
that was so great. We had so many awesome conversations,
you know, because a lot of it was happening in
mine to mine, and it was just a beautiful part
of it. And the parents would kind of marvel at
like sometimes in the exact second they each each would
come down and say, I want to go see you know,
John Paul, I want to go see Lily. We text
and the text would come in from each other right
at the same time, and that's when the parents were like,
they're talking to each other from where they're what, how

(01:11:28):
is this happening? It was telepathy, so yeah, I mean
and that you know, John Paul loved Lily so much,
and Lily loves John Paul.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
I mean, they really wanted to get married.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
And I think it's such an important, beautiful element of this,
and I think it's important for everyone to understand, is
like a non speaking individual is still an individual with
their high school interests and you know, hobbies and desires
and bands they like and clothes they like and things
they want and relationships they want. I mean, I think
the spiritual gifts is just a part of it. It's
just a part of it. Like I don't think it's

(01:11:59):
hell to look at these individuals as orcoles or you know,
they're human beings that're just sort of more tapped into this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Yeah right, right, And I think that's an really important
point that you made there. It's like we all have
different gifts and abilities, and it's just I think if
you start to think that this person is gifted beyond that,
that I can get quite messy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Yeah, yeah, in any way for anything, for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Sure, you know, I mean, Lily likes biking and go karting,
and John paul love poetry and swimming and manatees, and
like Mia from episode one wants to be a writer.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
She wants to go to Japan.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Like the most important thing is to know any individual
what makes them tick, what their interests are, what they
want to do with their lives. I mean, like, these
are the questions we all should be entitled to answer
for ourselves and every non speaking individual. And I just
want people to remember this as an individual that should
be met in that way. And this is these gifts,
if they appear in such an individual is beautiful and cool.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
But it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
It doesn't define them. Can you explain the well, this
was something that didn't form for me as like a
valid thing. Immediately, there was a few non speakers in
Atlanta that said that they connect on the Hill telepathically
and that it's a chat chat room basically a telepathic
chatroom where you can tune in. And Houston was a
name who named it. He actually named it the Chat
on the Hill to talk on the Hill. And then

(01:13:19):
his good friend John Paula said that he goes there
and he would put pillows on his head to block
out stuff. And then his girlfriend Lily said she goes
there and that a lot of people can get there
and that there's more than one hill. So I had
a hard time wrapping my head around that. And at
first I'm like, Okay, it's an Atlanta thing, like the
individuals in Atlanta are doing this where I really talk
about two by four like. There's been a few moments,

(01:13:41):
and for one for me was when I had just
met this new teacher in Chicago.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
She had no idea idea about telepathy at all.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
She had reached out to doctor Powell because her students
were talking about ghosts and seeing ghosts and knowing things
and it totally weird to tell her not weird, like
this was just weird. So she she absently called me
and doctor Powell she's explaining this. I did a follow
up with her once she saw that tslup It with
his happening, and then she said, and you would not
believe it, like some of the kids are saying they
go to this place called the hill, and on the

(01:14:07):
hill they can learn this and learn that, And I
thought what.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
And then fully.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Third person was this minister from like a mega church
in Arizona. I met him. He was very nervous to
talk about this. He was writing his own book. He
thought this was only in his congregation that he you know, again,
it was a miracle that he alone was privy to.
I met him and then he was telling me a
story about how one of his students would just met
with another non speaker from another church in another state,

(01:14:33):
and he's like, and they were talking about the Weirrees,
saying when they're going through the phone, they started spelling
to each other. Meet me at the Hill and he's like,
do you know what that is? And I think I
was stunned because now here's someone in Minnesota talking about Arizona,
Chicago and Atlanta. So after I had to go through
a lot of Hill references to believe it myself, and
now there's no doubt in my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
That's I can't wait to learn more about that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
It's very frustrating, I think for a lot non speakers,
because you want to do something and your body totally
betrays you. You might want to enter a room instead
you're leaving it. And the only time it seems like
they're able to really like gather and communicate their true
thoughts is through spelling. That mind body disconnect taught me
a lot because, for instance, a Keel who we feature
in episode two, he.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
Didn't know who his body was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
And for a lot of people who need to be
touched when they first learned spelling is because they don't
know where their body is. A Kiell didn't know he
had fingers. He had to be massaged over and over.
I remember Houston when he first was spelling. He said
he needed heavy boots so he knew where the ground was.
And so you can imagine if you don't feel connected
to your body to the point where you don't even
think you have one, you're.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Living in the mental world. That consciousness is fundamental.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
That makes even more sense now, I think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
Less about non speaking people. I don't think it has
much to do with autism at all. I think it
has to do with apraxia and not being connected to
your body.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Yeah, that is completely Yeah, that makes so much more sense.
When I was looking at studies on monk's brains, they
found that when monks who are doing the deepest meditations,
if they put their hand on a hot plate which
most of us would touch and immediately take our hand back,
that they were able to keep their hand on it

(01:16:09):
because they're disconnected from the physical experience, so it didn't
feel hot to them at all because they were so
removed from their physical state. And those studies have been
improven and shown and just that idea of being so
deep in meditation that you didn't feel heat, and I
think people, you know, it's really interesting to think about

(01:16:31):
Eastern traditions. There's a beautiful statement by C. S. Lewis
that says, you don't have a soul, you are the soul,
and you have a body and going to your consciousness.
Point that idea that because we live as if we
are the body, Eastern traditions wouldn't argue that therefore we
only know what the body knows. We only know our

(01:16:51):
limits based on physicality. But for those of us that
know we're not the body and that we're consciousness so
much more as accessible and that's where you'll point around
belief system and value system and everything else come in
that I'll wait a minute, I'm not actually just limited
by this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Right absolutely, And I think that like when we understand
that and praxia and the mind body disconnect, and that
can help inform a lot of the confusion around spelling,
you know, because certainly if you don't know where your
body is when you're learning, it helps to touch. And
that's why when people throw facility communication out because you're
being touched, it's like no, if that's working for someone
and they need pressure the whole time to know where

(01:17:29):
their hand.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Is, put pressure on their hands so they can spell awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Cool, Like let's assist people to get to their best
selves and their whole you know. But yeah, the mind
body disconnect then not knowing where your body is because
non speakers say that over and over and over and
over again that they're not living in their body. They
don't feel their body, they don't have control over their body,
and so so.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Then what is the reality. It's not the body reality.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
It's a different reality, yes, And this is what we're
all tuning into, this different reality that they're able to
talk about as messengers because of a flight. Honestly, I
think most of them feel very frustrated about the inability
to control their body, but the gifts that come along
with it. And John Paul when he said some I
think Libby once asked him, like, you know, what about
what do you love most about yourself and he was like, everything,

(01:18:14):
you know. So I do think like that experience of
not being tethered to your body can be beautiful. It's
just different from what we're seeing. We're seeing a body
that's having a very difficult time managing in the world,
but their experience is not bodily to the same degree.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Yeah. I was speaking to one of my friends the
other day and he was he's very deep into AI,
and he was explaining to me that if you looked
at an extremely, extremely below average individual in terms of IQ,
Einstein was only two point four more times intelligent than
that person, and then if you look at AI, we
can't even comprehend how intelligent AI is because AI is

(01:18:52):
going to be is already one hundred times more intelligent
than that, million times more intelligent, could be expansively ten
million times more intelligent than Ein's, which is bizarre to
even experience and imagine, because how could someone be more
intelligent and have a better IQ than Einstein. And it's
just really interesting when you look at it from that
dimension that I think we're already with AI experiencing something

(01:19:14):
quite remarkable and quite beyond like it. It's quite phenomenal.
That we kind of take it as something that's to
some degree becoming normalized, when it's really not that normal
that there are going to be and just because we
see it as computers in tech, but being able to
understand us, being able to know our needs, being able

(01:19:34):
to know what we want to hear. I've read so
many articles with people now using AI as their therapist
and everything else and feeling so understood. But that's the
same kind of curiosity and openness we have to have
over here, of just being open to marvel at these
incredible abilities. I don't know if that resonates or wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
I mean, no, I think it's fascinating. I mean, I
think we can attach so much of our personal needs
onto anything, you know what I mean. And AI is
just all of this is converging at the same time.
And that's what that's what's most interesting, is like AI
and like what that's making us question about consciousness. I
think even like psychedelics and people's embrace of how that

(01:20:16):
can help with mental health and explorations of consciousness and
the trials are doing where people feel like they are
certain there's more, you know, and that's happening with this
exposure of what the non speakers are hoping to I
think teach us alongside sudden interests and validation are uap
Like it seems like it's all converging at once. Yes,

(01:20:37):
and we're just like in the water of it right now.
Like I don't even think we realize how significant this
moment is for humans and consciousness. It's a cool time
to be alive.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
How do we make sure that it's not made quiet
and put down because I imagine that that's you know,
a natural thing that's happened in the past as well.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
Yeah, that it's been it's back down and just.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Yeah, because it's seen as scary, it's or people are like,
oh this is bad or or it's you know, whatever
is How do how do we make sure that we
keep asking these questions?

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
And I think social media has changed everything because I
think the scaffolding of control was always very powerful before,
because it's like someone had the ability to silence you
and no one would know that happen, Like you could
be just quieted and not be able to your truth out.
They'd steal your camera and it was done, you know.
But I feel like or there just be a mass discredit,

(01:21:25):
you know, discrediting of someone. What's happening now with social
media is you can get out of truth very quickly
and find other people who agree and concur and thumb
up it, and and it's much it's much more difficult
to make someone seem bonkers, especially when there's a lot
of people validating a truth.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
If scientists and others in the community are open to
wanting to go and be with the non speakers and
be a part of this, how do we do and
how does the general public do it in a way
that isn't disrespectful? Isn't because I can imagine that testing
and things could be exhausting for these individuals, the humans
with kind of you know, this whole process is somewhat
invasive of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Yeah, I mean I get very nervous about that, and
I feel like scientists and researchers, it's like you have
your questions, but like just let's pause for a second,
you know. And one of the things that we've been
talking about and trying to start a foundation for and
put like profits that come in from the film or
anything or donations to this foundation that maybe could try
to open up centers in different states or cities where

(01:22:27):
non speakers can go and learn to spell for free
in an affordable way and have physical therapy, and parents
can have respite care where they can bring their child
here and they know they'll be well taken care of,
and the non speakers can have their physical and mental
and spiritual needs met. And then then only then it's
like if there's an interest that one individuals like I

(01:22:48):
do want to study Wales, then maybe like through these
centers of scientists who marine biologists could apply and they
have to learn how to spell, and they have to
like really get vetted and be on the level of
the non speakers, and then there could be like a
way that maybe where they pay the nonspeedch wo or
work with them and so that way it's equitable and
it's all centered on the non speaker and really working

(01:23:08):
to fit into their world instead of asking them to
be a square peg fitting into like the round.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
Hole of our world.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
And so I think we just have to approach it differently.
The thing that makes me sick is the idea of
someone being like I want to test on speakers, do
this and do that, Like that is gross and I
can't imagine. I don't think many families will I mean
some very science minded people might, but like I know
one of our individuals that is in our project like
really wants to learn plant medicine.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
How awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
But like, let's find a scientist who deeply cares and
just doesn't want to like ask questions and cut and run,
like pay the individual, you know, bring them into the fold,
help with their education, you know. So there's a way
to do it ethically and we just have to get
there first.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
How does that feel after thrown our years of work,
I'm sure, like finally sharing it with the world and
receiving those emails yourself and what's that experience being like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
I think the worst outcome for me, which would have
been really would have been like if we were getting
emails being like.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
This isn't true, this isn't true.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
But the opposite has happened, where it's so many parents
who were like I always thought this was but you know,
my wife didn't believe me, or husband didn't believe me,
or bank like blank. And now like we're having open
conversations and we're setting it to the nieces and nephews
and uncle's nants and like that's really cool and it's
just so beautiful I mean it's beautiful because I think
people are finding community. And MY biggest concern always is

(01:24:26):
for people to live like a transparent whole life, like
don't compartmentalize, don't lie in secret, just be all of you.
And I think for non speaking individuals, they are able
to now be all of themselves because so many more
people are willing and able to see them and receive them.
That is beautiful, Like there's no there's nothing that can
compare to that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
And how has it impacted your personal or spiritual and
consciousness journey of understanding yourself on a deeper level.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
I mean, I believe all sorts of things I did
in three and a half years ago. I certainly believe
that consciousness is survives. I actually think consciousness is not local.
I don't believe our body creates it. I mean I
think we help and assist in that, and our memories
and all those things work together. But I think we
are working with consciousness coming in from somewhere else. I

(01:25:15):
certainly believe in things like precognition and siabilities and even
mediumship abilities, stuff like that that I didn't that I
dismissed before. Yeah, I mean, I'm forever changed you know,
and it's cool. Like I have young kids, and it's
cool watching how they're growing up with these things. I mean,
they hear about it all the time. It's hearing the
zoom calls and it's just part of their life. Like

(01:25:35):
I've saw my daughter playing barbies the other day and
they were this is actually a few years back when
I was still working on it, and they were divving
up like, Okay, your barbies are doing this, and this
is the identity of your barbies. My daughter goes and
my two barbies are non speakers. And then her friend
is like, well, how are they going to talk? And
she's like through telepathy and she's like, oh my gosh,
that's great, you know, just watching it, like being part

(01:25:57):
and parcel of you know, their world.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
That was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
What's the wildest thought of yours they read when you didn't?

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
I mean, it was an embarrassing thought and I had
no idea the extent and I'm not even going to
say what it was. But we were sitting at a
table and it was after a long Dave shooting. Doctor
Powell was there, We had another neuroscientist there, I think
Katie was there. Houston was there, and I remember I
don't remember exactly what the thought was, but it was
enough that was like an embarrassing, silly thing. And all
of a sudden, the second I thought it, Houston like
laughed and like spit out his beer practically, and I'm like,

(01:26:27):
oh my gosh, he heard my thought. And that was
where I was like, wow, okay, like because when we
were doing the selepathy test, it's one thing. But when
you experience it over like a beer and you realize
someone heard your thought and like laughed, that was and
I'm like, okay, I gotta like clean it out again
and clear it out.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Gosh, guy, is there anything that I didn't ask you
that you really wanted to share or someone that's on
your ow mind that you didn't get to speak on
that you would like to share.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
The final episode of the Selepathy Tapes, I gave the
floor to speakers from all over the world, and I
think the best lessons aren't there, And like one thing
that I think about all time, as one of the
non speakers said that kindness is the best way to evolve,
and so I just want people to think about that.
And when people are very afraid about you know, one
thing you didn't ask about was like the fear about

(01:27:12):
reading thoughts. And I had to think about that a
lot over the past few years, that why does that
so scary to people? And I think it's scary because
people don't maybe like the thoughts in their head, or
it's too you know, they'd feel too exposed. But if
we are capable of this, and we're being called maybe
to like get to a place where this is a
communication we're all capable of, then we're first called to

(01:27:32):
like clean our own thoughts a little bit. And that's
easy to control. How you think about people, how you
think about yourself, how you think about the world around you,
the choices you're making, and if you are conscious about
those thoughts all the time and making them pure and loving,
it's not scary if someone's reading them, you know. So
I think that, like I love that that kindness is
the best way to evolve, because some nonspeakers are saying, hey,

(01:27:53):
we are all capable of this, this is where we're
going to go. We all have to do that hard
work of like becoming more loving kind individuals.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
First, do you think it's possible that we will become
capable of have the opportunity to become capable to communicate
that way.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Many non speakers I've met have said that we are
capable of that, and again I trust their insights more
than I trust my own. I do think we're all
capable of it. I've seen it turned on in teachers.
I think it's all possible, and I think for those
it's scary to take a look inside. Let that be
a mirror, you know, And it's a beautiful thing because

(01:28:28):
one non speaker and then I know it will end.
But like one non speaker once said that, look, if
you say the word Thanksgiving, you've said the word Thanksgiving.
But if I telepathically send it, you're given the football
game on and your uncle pulling up and sleeping your
childhood bed, and the smells and like your favorite candy
and seeing this person and the smell of your mom's
hair and like all the whole thing, And it's an

(01:28:50):
experience that is so immensely beautiful and there's no sarcasm,
and there's no withholding, and there's no exaggerating. It's all
just the pure And to me, it's like, Wow, what
would happen if we were all living that way? So
if we do get to a space where more of
us are telepathically communicating. I think it's gonna be good
for humanity, not bad.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
If you knew what someone was thinking, how would you
speak differently too, I think that's the other side. One
side is being able to read and maybe someone cleaning
their thoughts. But if I could see what you were thinking,
how would I speak to you differently? Ho would I
look at you differently? How would I connect with you differently?
It would transform hopefully how we'd take care of each

(01:29:29):
other as well.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
It does totally.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
And I've learned that just being around on speaker is
making sure Like in my thoughts it's like, okay, like
they're being read, so just make sure they're and then
so the whole day you're empty. Actually it's like you're
meditating in a way, like my keep my thoughts really empty.
And I actually find even like directing it's with them
is easier to do that. Like you're just empty out
and you feel better at the end of the day.
You feel great at the end of the day. You're

(01:29:52):
living in the moment because most of our thoughts are
what just happened or what's in the future, And when
you're just empty, You're like totally present, and so that's
the GFT where I'm always like being with non speakers,
aware that of my thoughts and just trying to have none.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
That's beautiful, the beautiful way to beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Kay.
It has been so fascinating talking to you. Honestly, I
think the work that you're doing is so inspiring, and truly,
there's been very little that I think we've had to
be curious about for a long time when it comes
to this space, and I really feel like you've brought

(01:30:29):
something to the Ford that we can all be spiritually
curious about. And the questions that you're asking is so
intriguing to me. Then, questions that I believe we all
should be looking for the answers. I think for a
long time we've thought about physical questions like how do
we make the body stronger? And how do we sleep better?
And how do and those are really important questions. I
stand by that we do that a lot on this show.

(01:30:49):
But similarly, I think we're all asking questions of like
why do we exist? And why am I here? And
you know, do I really understand the abilities that I have?
And especially for those that have been seen as like
you said, that they're not in there to realize that
there is a purpose, there is a value, there is
a gift. There is of course there is already but inherently,

(01:31:11):
but there's so much more that we don't know. And
so I'm so grateful for your time and energy, not
just today, but for the last three and a half
years of you dedicated your life to this purpose and
for sharing it with me so openly and graciously with
me and my audience. And I'm sure everyone if they're
not already listening to the Telepathy tapes, which I'm sure
they are, we'll go back and listen, or we'll listen

(01:31:31):
for the first time and help pass it on. How
much can people support or connect if they want to
be a part of this work with you and encourage you,
or even want to write to you. How can they
get in touch or how can they follow along?

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah, I mean we are on all the social media
at the telep ofy tapes. I would encourage people, though,
I mean my biggest ask is please, like, just presume
competence if you see a nonspeaker, if you meet a
non speaker, if you work with non speakers, they are
in there, their human beings help them get on boards,
learn to spell, and if you are interested in getting
engaged with no speakers, you could become a spelling to

(01:32:07):
communicate partner by going to s to see or spelling
to communicate or spellers method like just go look into
this because we need more spellers. I mean, that's the
biggest ask. Is just that everyone starts assisting them and
meeting them and presuming competence.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
That's everything to me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
I hope we can stay in tied so that I
can ask you more questions here, updates, and continue this
conversation offline as well. I feel like there's so many
great spiritual conversations to be had and shared and I
can't wait to see where this works goes. So here
as a supporter and cheerleader and look forward to learning
lots more.

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
Thank you, thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
Thank you so much. If this is the year that
you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more,
I need you to listen to this episode with Rick
Rubin on how to break into your most creative self,
how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and
the seek to genuinely loving what you do. If you're
trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's

(01:33:06):
episode is the one for you. Just because I like it,
That doesn't give it any value, like as an artist,
if you like it, that's all of the value. That's
the success comes when you say I like this enough
for other people to see it.

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Jay Shetty

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