Tom Holland ON: How to Overcome Social Anxiety & Beneficial Life Lessons You Can Learn From Family

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I just felt like I was so addicted to this
kind of false version of my life that it was
just taking over. And the thing that really upset me
is the press ran with that. They were saying, Oh, look,
he's not the perfect, happy, go lucky.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Kids you think he is.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. If I
was having a mental breakdown.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
That's not for you to report on.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
They took the story in the wrong direction, and they
kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong life.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
The best selling are during Post, the number one health
and wellness podcast, and.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,
the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to
each and every one of you that come back every
week to listen, learn, and grow. Now I'm so grateful
and so excited because I get to sit down with
people that I find fascinating, incredible, thoughtful, insightful, and people
who allow me into their lives and into their minds.

(00:49):
And today's someone who I've wanted to sit down with
for a long long time, and I'm so grateful that
in his busy schedule he's been able to carve out
some time to sit down with me today. I'm talking
about the one, the Only, Tom Holland Tom. It is
so great to be with you, mate, Thank you, mate. Thanks,
I'm genuinely grateful that you're here. I know we've just
been casually catching up before this, and it's already been

(01:09):
so fun. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah. No, I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I'm excited to listen to you and learn from you
and speak about mindfulness. And I love you know that
your programs about health. I'm going through a little bit
of like a health journey right now, which I'm loving,
so I can't wait to dive into that.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
And thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, absolutely. Man. Well, I've always really appreciated how much
you've opened up about that journey in your own way,
And I think what's really interesting for me is a
lot of people open up after it's solved, sure, whereas
you've kind of been telling us as things are going on.
And I think that's actually quite rare because usually when
you're going through something, it's kind of harder to articulate

(01:46):
it and explain it and have people understand it. Sure,
And the fact that you're doing that, I think takes
a lot of courage. So I just wanted to point
that out straight off the bat, that that's really tough
and people don't do that. People kind of wait till
they're out of it. And again I'm not judging either
a pro because it's up to the individual, but I
do think it takes a lot of strength to do
what you're doing. So thank you for that, but.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
May thank you for saying now, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, But let's dive in. I wanted to talk about
I know that your family is very close to you,
and you're very close to family, very close. We're just
talking about your living in Kingston, which is I believe
where you grew up.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, right down the road.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, amazing. And what's really interesting is that a lot
of studies show that how we were loved or unloved
between the ages of zero to five impact the next fifteen,
twenty five, fifty years of our life and how we
give love to ourselves and how we give love to others.
And so I was thinking, do you have a core

(02:39):
memory or an experience with your family from childhood that
kind of embodies the feeling you have about them now
or that keeps you tied close to them.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I'd say sort of more than a memory, is just
a feeling that we I could say, all of my
brothers and I had was that Because our dad's a comedian,
his job only ever existed once we had gone to bed,
and our mum worked from home, she was a photographer.
So to us as kids, our parents didn't really work.

(03:08):
They just were always home. So we had this amazing
foundation where no matter any time of the day, either
mum or dad would be at the house and we
felt so kind of solid as a family, which is why,
like I kind of have this dream of one day
having kids and putting my work to bed and just
kind of being there as a dad, because I really
admire how my dad was around. You know, being a

(03:30):
comedian is a very very volatile job. The highs and
lows are so extreme, and as kids we never saw that.
The only version of my dad I ever saw was
the happy dad. Let's go to the park. We used
to play this game called golf Goals where we.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Would go down to the park.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
There's like this big blue metal goal and we would
just fire golf balls into that goal every day, and
he would give us ten p every time a ball
went in. The goal, and that was kind of the
foundation of our golf and all that sort of stuff.
So for me, broad than a core memory, was the
idea of always feeling connected and safe within my family unit.

(04:06):
And I think a large portion of that is that
my mum and dad have always been such a solid
team and they've always been there for us.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, wow, have they? As you've grown older, have they
kind of opened up about some of the challenges that
they were going through that they obviously didn't show you
and your family when you were kids, Because I can
imagine we always talk about this, right, like being a
comedian is extremely difficult because you're making everyone else laugh
at the same time. It's a career path that, like
you said, is completely volatile. Sure have they opened up?

(04:36):
Has times gone on? And how has that felt when
you've gone from like seeing your parents always been happy
to being like, oh wait, there was all this other
stuff going on.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Absolutely, they have.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
And it's not even sometimes things that they've told us,
it's just things that we've grown up to recognize. As
a young kid, you know, you're not looking to how's
my mom feeling, how's my dad feeling? And now as
an older person, you know those are things I care about.
I want to call my mom because I know it
all brighton a day. So that's all part of growing up,
I guess. So seeing the way in which my dad's

(05:06):
job affects him, or my dad's job affects my mum
is something we've all sort of come to terms with.
And he's amazing at it. I mean, to be honest,
I say, effect it doesn't really affect anyone. He's so
good at handling it, which is.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
A lot of why I feel like I am the
way I am.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
For example, the Crowded Rooms come out, the critics absolutely
hated it. They thought it was the worst thing they've
ever seen, and it doesn't really upset me. And I
think a large part of my feeling towards that has
come from my dad being able to do a gig,
the gig not going well, him brushing it off his
shoulder and just right onto the next one.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah. Well, and first of all, I want to point
out as well, so I've been watching The Crowded Room, right,
and me and my wife been watching it together, and
we're actually really enjoying.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
It, thank you.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
We're actually loving it because I love a show that
has mystery. Sure that's trying to like get me to
figure it out and get me to think about it.
I'm kind of confused, and I love stuff like that.
Like I'm a massive Christopher Nolan. Yeah, but all my
favorite movies and Nolan movies, and the reason why I
love them is because I have no idea what's going on? Sure,
And that's you've got to figure it out, and you've
got to figure it out. And I love puzzles and
I love escape rooms and I love anything escape room. Yeah.

(06:10):
I love anything that's got me thinking, what is going
on here? And why can't I figure it out?

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Mate? Do you know what you should watch?

Speaker 1 (06:16):
I admittedly watch it to go to sleep if I'm
ever feeling stressed or like over stimulated.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I watched this guy.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Called Chris Ramsey. He's like a YouTube guy. He's a magician,
but I just watch him solve puzzles. He like buys
these Japanese like handcrafted puzzle boxes and he just solves them.
And I've started buying them. And they come to the
house and you sit down for four hours, put it down,
pick it up, and try and solve this puzzle.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
And it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Have you are you good at them.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
No, I'm terrible, absolutely terrible. I've had an unsolved rube
excuse since i was like eleven. But I but yeah,
So I watch his videos because there's just something about
like the sound of the wood. I'm a carpenter, so
I love like craftsmanship and that sort of stuff. So
I love the way that these pieces are put together.
So watching him solve the puzzles I find so relaxing.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah. I think for so many of us, you know,
getting bad reviews, perceptions, people talking about us, whatever, that
maybe whatever scale we live at can actually affect us. Sure,
and you're saying that actually seeing your dad, letting him,
seeing him shrug it off, and seeing him move on
actually really helped him. Do you think that you've been
able to create a bit more of a skill around

(07:29):
that now or is it something that happens naturally for you,
Because I'm guessing that there's a lot of people who
are listening and watching going Tom. That's pretty amazing that
you can do that at your scale and your level.
But you know, I'm still affected by that, or I
really struggle when my mates says something like I know
the number one thing I hear is like most people
don't chase their dreams because they're scared of what their
mates will say, let alone what.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
The world in the world will say.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, I had this late. I was I was flying
back last night. As I was telling you, so, I
was on a plane from DC to London last night
and the air hostess, who's wonderful when EMA's Jeanette. She
said to me, she was like, do I really want
to start a YouTube channel? But you know, you just
got to block out what your friends are going to say, right,
And she was just worried about it, so that it's
a very real thing. So I guess have you kind
of figured out a little formula for it or is

(08:12):
it just natural because you saw your dad and it's
become easier that way.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think it's a little bit of both.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Really, you know, I think it's something you definitely get
better at. I'm really lucky that I have an incredibly
strong group of friends. Like one of my best mates
just called me up earlier to say'd seen the fifth
episode and it's like, I know what happens in the
show and I'm still loving it. The people I'm watching
it with have no idea what's going on, but they
can't wait for the next one. So you know, I

(08:38):
really really hold high the opinions of people that I
really care about. I'm also really lucky to have an
amazing group of fans who are so supportive. They are
die hard, they are their day one and that makes
me feel really good. But I do think a lot
of my lessons in life have come from my dad
and the ways that he can deal with things, things
that he hasn't done very well in the past that

(08:59):
he has passed on to me, and I sort of
I live by this really. I don't actually know if
Christian Bale did say this, but I but I think
the quote is if you have a problem with me,
text me, and if you don't have my number, you

(09:20):
don't know me well enough to have.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
A problem with me.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's so good And I think that that is such
a great piece of advice because as a celebrity, you
live on this stage, you live out there. You kind
of give out a version of yourself that you want
people to see, and that can be the version of
yourself that they can have a problem with or they
can love. And there is a you know, I feel
like I'm quite authentic in my public persona. But I

(09:44):
just try to really care about what my family thinks,
what my friends think, what the people in my local
community think. I live in Kingston, I know everyone that
lives there. I can't walk five feet without bumping into
one of my mum's friends. So yeah, so it's something
I've been working on. I try my best to not
let that stuff affect me.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
It does. Yeah, of course I'm not cold hearted or
anything like that.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
It does affect me, but I just tried to move
on and focus on the positives.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. What was a Did you ever see
your dad deal with everything and you thought, wow, that
was incredible. Was there anything specific that you remember that,
like seeing him like tackle something and you thought, wow,
that really impressed me, even if it was something really small.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
In hindsight, I think the thing I admire most about
my dad is his resilience. You know, he's someone who
has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life,
and then later in life his career sort of plateaued
and he struggled, and he's never stopped. He's never given up.
He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books.
He has a patron, he has a podcast. He's constantly

(10:46):
grafting to get to where he wants to be. And
I think being a young kid and seeing your dad
continually working as hard as he can to kind of
put his best foot forward. For me, has been a
huge drive for my work ethic I'll give it one
hundred percent or I'll give it nothing, And I think
a lot of that has come from my dad and
seeing him deal with that. The funny thing about my dad,

(11:07):
as you talk about doing a bad gig, I must
have seen him twenty times. I've never seen him do
a bad gig. He always seems to absolutely rip it.
But maybe that's just because we're in the audience. He
But no, I owe a lot to my dad, and
a lot of the teachings are thinks he's told me
and things I've just witnessed him.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, And was there ever a piece of feedback or
a rumor or something you saw that did affect you
where you actually thought, well, at least made you stop
and go, God, I'm trying to see the positives, but
this one's tough, Like this actually made me have to
pause and figure it out.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Something that did really upset me. I was in New York,
I was shooting the Crowning Crowded Room, and I was
having a really hard time with the job just because
of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I
was having to get to every day. And I decided
to delete my Instagram because I just felt like I
was so addicted to this kind of false version of

(12:02):
my life that it was just taking over. I would
be on set working, I'd come and sit in my
chair and just scroll, scroll, scrolls, CROs scroll, and it.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Was becoming a problem.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
I was just obsessed with it, and I was obsessed
to find out what people were saying and how people
what they thought about me. So I decided to make
an announcement, which unfortunately we have to do, and say
that I'm taking a break from social media. And I
tried to position myself and say like, I'm taking a
break from social media because I feel like my mental
health will benefit from it. And the thing that really

(12:32):
upset me is the press ran with that and they
tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown,
and what upset me was if I was having a
mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They
took the story in the wrong direction. And they try,
they painted again this negative light on mental health. Rather
than saying, oh, he's doing it, it's okay that he's

(12:55):
doing it, so we should all feel okay to do
it too, they were saying, Oh, look, he's not what
the perfect, happy, go lucky kid you.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Think he is.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. And I
think that that was a really unfair line of journalism.
Let's say he because I just think it again kind
of painted people looking for help in the wrong light,
if you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, it almost sounds like you were
actually preemptively going, I'm doing this so that I don't
go in that direction.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Totally, at least I'm not.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Trying to put words in your mouth, but absolutely, it's
almost like I'm proactively seeing that I could end up
in a position where sure I might have a breakdown.
I don't want to be in that position, and so
I'm responsibly saying, guys, I'm taking a break right in
order to protect myself.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, which makes a lot of sense and actually is
quite admirable.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Again, totally, and that's kind of what the message of
the show is about. Like the message of our show
is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate.
If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel
bad and you wake up and you go to a friend,
a therapist, a teacher, an employee, or a colleague and
say I'm really struggling, I need some help. That should
be something that we give you a pat on the back,

(14:06):
like I would love to help you. I'm delighted that
you asked me, and that for me, that announcement was
kind of my olive branch. And the press ran with
it how they ran with it, But to be fair,
it kind of gave me a great drive to finish
the crowded room in the way that we did, to like,
if you're not going to listen to my personal message,

(14:27):
then you have to listen to the message of my show.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, so it kind of went hand in hand.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah. Absolutely. You've reminded me actually when you said that,
because I think we naturally today think of therapists or doctors,
but you mentioned teacher there, and I was thinking when
I was going through a really rough time at school.
Once I remember my walk to school from the bus stop,
I'd see a teacher every day that I was really
close with that school. But you never talk to your
teachers walking to.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
School, crazy person, Yes, but.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
I was so lonely at the time that I remember
like almost thinking like, well, he's the only person I
can talk to because of other stuff that I was
going through at school. And I remember I started talking
to him on the way to school. His name is
mister bucker Is. He knows I go on about him
everywhere and he avoids it because everyone's always like, oh, day,
he's been talking about it. But it was it was
that exact feeling where it's like he was someone that

(15:15):
I felt I could open to it, that open up
to at that point in my life without feeling judged,
without feeling like he was going to see me through
another lens, and just having that space to be seen
for as a human who is going through stuff by
a teacher was a huge, huge win. And so you know,
it's you are right that that help can come in
all different forms, and it doesn't It doesn't have to

(15:35):
come in the ways that we expected to come in.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be a professional. H I
go to my friends a lot, and and you know,
some friends are better than others in certain situations. I've
got some friends that are very much like, pull your
socks up and get on with it, and then other
friends who are like, come here and have a cry
on my.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Shoulder, but like it. It varies.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
So I just really hope that that's what the show
could do is sort of paint this positive picture of
asking for help is something to be proud of.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
But that's a great message, and I think we all
need to hear it. And I want to go back
a little bit because there's a lot of interviews that
you've done, and I've watched a lot of stuff over
the time, but like we were talking about a lot
of its soundbites because it's quick and short and the entertainment,
you know, interviews, and that's why I was really grateful
that you took out the time to do this. But
you were diagnosed as far as I read, with dyslexia
at age seven, yes, And I was wondering, how, you know,

(16:22):
a lot of our community and our audience is diagnosed
as well, or some of them are not, but they're
finding out later on in life. How did that affect you?
How were you set up for success with that from that?
Because as an actor, you've got to learn lines, You've
got to read lines. There's a lot of activities that
people would assume are quite challenging. Sure you found a
way and walk us through that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
My mum has always been really hands on with our education. She,
you know, really wanted us to just do our best.
Our dad always said like, look, I don't care what
grades you get, as long as you try your best.
You try your best, and that's all that we can
ask for. But yeah, Mike, dyslexia, it's really just my spelling.
I mean, honestly, it's just that. You know those sort

(17:02):
of games that you play at Christmas? Have you ever
played the one we have to write down the answers
that such a good game?

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Is it? Bolderdash? I don't know. Bolderdash? Is it?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
It's basically a game where someone will read out a
scenario or ask a question, and then you have to
answer the question.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
To the best of your ability. But you can also
bluff and lie.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
I've never played this, and if.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
You write somewhat a believing answer and people vote for
your answer, you win.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Oh cool, Okay, I've never played it, which.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is great, But when I play it, Everyone's like, what
does that say? That is definitely not spelt right?

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Good?

Speaker 1 (17:36):
But yeah, so my spelling was really the biggest heardle.
I worked really hard at school. I didn't do particularly well,
but again my parents said, as long as you try
your best, then that's all we can ask for.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, and acting you started early too, age nine, right,
Like that was something that you started pursuing really early
on in life. And I feel was that something that
you were always sure about. There's that famous viral TikTok
that always goes around with you. You know, I can't.
I don't know how old you were being asked you
know what superhero would you play? Maybe Spider Man? Right?
And I wonder, like, how much of your acting career

(18:11):
do you feel like you've manifested or there was a
vision or a focus or is it more just like
this was naturally what you were into in it and
it grew? Where Where did that come from?

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I do believe in manifesting, actually, I really do. I
think what's interesting about my career is this was never
something I wanted. I just was a young kid. I
loved dancing.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
My mum would take me to a dance class every Saturday.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
And I got spotted through that dance class to audition
for a show on the West End.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
I ended up doing the show.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I loved it, Billy Elliott, it was the top of
my life, you know, it was such a cool experience.
I'm just by complete fluke. An agent came to see
the show the night that I was on. She signed me.
She sent me to an audition for a film. I
was lucky enough to get the part. All of a sudden,
I was on set with You McGregor and Naomi Watts
and we made the impossible. And to be perfectly honest

(19:01):
with you, it was it was just a hobby. It
was something that my mum would let me do on
the summer holidays. She was very keen that I kept
my schooling up. And there sort of came that time
in England where you were in between gccs and A
levels and you're trying to figure out when I was
going through that you could still drop out.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Her A levels.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Obviously now you have to do A levels. And I
had that moment where I was like, what do I
want to do? I could try and stay at school
and figure out what I want to do or this
thing that's been a hobby for my sort of summer
holiday activity, which is acting. I could try and do
that for a living, and I've been so lucky that
i've been you know, offer jobs and all that sort
of stuff. I decided to go with it. I joined

(19:42):
the brit School because, you know, my mum was keen
that I didn't go for school for an education, but
went to school to expand my social skills and meet
kids my own age. All my friends when I was
fifteen were like thirty year old people because they're all
adults from the business. So I think my mum was
keen that I had some friends that are my ag
who are now my best friends today. So I never

(20:02):
really wanted this. I just sort of never stopped doing it.
And I love it.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
I absolutely love it. I love the creativity.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
I love the building blocks that are required to put
a film together. I love the collaboration on set between
people from all different walks of life. You know, a
film set is a melting pot of all sorts of
different people.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So I love it. I absolutely love it.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah. Wow, And I read something that you said you
were bullied for like doing ballet, which obviously got you
into the playing the role of Billiyellick because it's ballet
and tap, right, sure, it's both. So was that tough
at the time or like, were you trying to hide
it and then you end up on you know, you
end up at the west end and you're on the
main stage and everyone's seeing it or was it kind

(20:44):
of easy to navigate and how did that go down?
Because I feel like as a kid, doing ballet and
tap must have been a little challenging.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't easy, but it also wasn't tough.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
I went to a rugby school, so you can imagine,
like the one kid in the school that does ballet,
there's going to be comments here and there.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
It wasn't the easiest thing in the world. There were
kids that.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Didn't understand why I was doing it or what I
was doing it for, no matter how many times I explained,
like I'm the only guy in a class of thirty
girls in tights. I was like, guys, this is what
you want to be doing, Like rugby is not it.
But I know it was tough, but again, like it
goes back to what we were saying about resilience and
keeping your head down and crowded room was the hardest
job I've ever had for all sorts of different reasons.

(21:27):
And there was a point in time where we were
talking about do we shut this down and walk away
from it because of how challenging it was, And you know,
I dug my heels in, I put my head down
and was like, now I'm going to finish this.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I'm going to see it through.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
And I think, you know, you learn from past experiences
like that, So I really am proud of the way
everyone handled the crowded room, and I think that stems
from my childhood, my dad's experiences and all that sort
of stuff.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty and I'm thrilled to announce
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see my arm Burpose podcast live and in person. Join
me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations
with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert,
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(22:15):
designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections.
I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on
cell now, Head to Jay Shetty dot me and get
yours today. Well, so I've got a confession as well tonight.
Go on. So I went to rugby school as.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well, okay, and I played.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, I played for my A team and I was
I was pretty that was pretty good, okay because blindside flanker. Okay,
so I was. I was really into rugby because I
went to rugby school and I loved football. But my
school didn't play football, and so I was like, no,
I've got to be on the school's main team. So
I worked really hard to get on the team. But
after we played rugby on a Saturday, my mom forced

(22:54):
me to go to dance class and part of it
was ballet and taff as well. Although I did not
end up at the West End, and because I don't
think Billy Elliott was brown, so that wasn't going to happen.
It wasn't the same path as you. But I also
had that experience. That's why I had to ask you about.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Did you enjoy it?

Speaker 3 (23:12):
I really enjoyed it for the community aspect for it,
Like I love all the lads that I was there
with it, and they were just they were just a
great laugh and it was really interesting because we'd go
from I'd literally go from playing rugby straight to class
on a Saturday, and I'm going there with all my
bruises exhausted and all the rest of it. But everyone's
just so much fun. Sure, And it's almost like the
rugby pitch was more stressful because everyone was, like, you know,

(23:32):
trying to be intense and trying to be this and that,
whereas everyone just having a laugh at the dances. So
we do everything from hip hop to street to whatever.
But yeah, I remember never telling I think this is
the first time I've ever smoke about in a safe
space with you.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
But it's interesting because rugby is regimented, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, I love rugby.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You play a position that is as specific as saying
the blied side flanker. You know, when you're a dancer,
you're just a dancer. You can fit in however you
want to it in. The teacher can ask you how
are you feeling about that, rather than like you need
to get your head down to the left to make
a proper tackle. I did love playing rugby when I
was smaller. Yeah, well not when I was smaller, when

(24:11):
all the kids were smaller. And then there was that
time where I came back to school after Billy Elio
and everyone had just become a man, and I was
still very much a child. I remember we played this
school called Trinity College and it was my first game back,
and I was playing scrum half. I came on the
second half and it was a violent game. It was
not a gentleman's game of rugby. And I was standing

(24:34):
there were kicking to us, we receiving, and I remember thinking,
as long as the ball doesn't come to me, offer
the kick, I'll be fine. I need the game to
get going and then I'll be fine. I'm scrum half,
relatively safe position, a good playmaker. As soon as he
kicked the ball, it's coming straight towards me. I'm trying
to catch it. I can hear the boots running towards me.
I fumble it, knock on. The game goes on, I

(24:54):
start playing well. I assisted a try and then I
don't remember what happened or how it happened, but there
was a really tough kid on our team who will
remain nameless.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I haven't spoken to him since.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I don't know what he's doing, but he got into
a fight with some kid on the opposing team, and
it was really quite ugly, and then the kid's dad
came on the pitch to tell off this boil that
was on my team, and the kid on my team
knocked out his dad no proper, like it's the first
time I've ever seen someone hit someone, and I couldn't
believe that a kid who was hold are you? He

(25:28):
must have been sixteen at the time. He's one of
those sixteen year olds that would look older than I
do now when he was sixteen, and I just remember
hearing the noise. He'd like, crack this dad on the
draw hit the floor. Then this whole big fight broke out.
I'm not a fight, so I stepped away and was
sort of like, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, it was wild.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
And that was the last game of rugby I ever played.
It was against Trinity College. Oh my god, it was
really intense.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
Wow was intense. That's how intense he got. My last
game was similar, but not not watching a fight. So
someone ran I had. It was a big game and
it's I was playing really well that season and everything
was going really well and someone ran into a rock
but with their elbow, which is obviously illegal. Totally they

(26:12):
ran in and they elbowed me right there like right
blends it's on this side and right below there. And
the next thing I know, I get up and I'm
like kind of feeling a bit aggressive.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
You cut as well well.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
I didn't notice, and then blood starts to drip, and
I was like, that's when you freak out, because oh god,
I'm like and there's a lot of blood just dripping.
So I get subbed off and the nurse on the
side just puts a bit of glue there, like just
stick it together, and at that time you don't really notice,
and you think you're all right, and then literally an
hour later, it's just getting thicker and thicker and thicker,

(26:43):
and I'm ending up with this run to the hospital
on the way home because my coach was just like,
suck it up, it's fine, fine, run there. They're like,
if you were any later, you would have had nerve
damage and like personally potentially lost your eyes out whatever
it was, and they had to like glue it and
a little bit of stitches or whatever it was. And
I for the for the rest of the month, I
walked around with my like, you know, I literally hanging

(27:04):
over and I looked like I got into like the
worst fight I walked into a store and everyone kind
of back off and stuff, and it was just really uncomfortable.
That was my last game of rug with us. I
just remembered that. But yeah, it was it was intense.
It was it was intense, but it was great, Like
you said, it was great regimented discipline training. I loved
training with my mates. I love playing. I loved as
a young man as well. Like having a outlet to

(27:26):
release the energy that I had was good in obviously
in a way that wasn't trying to hurt others.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's what's so great about boxing. Yeah, It's like boxing
is such a great release. You know, you see these
young kids, like young kids who are angry. You need
to let something go, like go and punch your bag
for an hour. That will make it, that will carm
you down. I love how boxing is such a great
thing for young for young people to release that sort
of endery you boxing, do you But.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
I love boxing.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I spent a few years since I've done any sort
of training. I used to go to this great gym
in New York called Church Street Boxing.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Just love it.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
There had a great pro You could sort of spar
with him because you know, that he wouldn't batter you
because he could control himself. I went to a one
sparring session, just a general session, and I got.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Absolutely Yeah, it was tough, but I love it. I
love the sport.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
I'm a little bit sad as to like how the
sport is being run right now, but I do love
the sport and I admire the athletes.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
I think they're amazing.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
What's your take on YouTubers boxing and all that kind
of stuff, And because it's obviously bringing a lot of
attention to.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
The sportest with you. I don't really mind it. I
think it's quite fun. I think if you're doing it
for the right reasons, you know, there's a great opportunity
to raise some money for amazing charities, and I think
a few of them have done a lot for charity.
I think it's really great. I think, yeah, you know,
my brother Paddy would never have been watching boxing, and
now he loves his favorite YouTubers are boxing. So if

(28:49):
it's good for the sport, it's good for the sport.
I sort of don't really mind. I think it's funny,
to be honest. Yeah, because you sit at home watching it,
I could do that can get in there and do that.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
You're like, well, I don't you And you're like, well, yeah,
I don't really want to do.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
That, so we might see you in Creed Forward then yea,
yeah we do. We do the acting boxing.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
I'd love to do a boxing movie.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I think it would be cool to do a boxing movie,
but where the fighting is real. I wouldn't necessarily be
in that right, but I do think that you could
make a really interesting film where the outcome of the
film is determined on the outcome of the real fight.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Has anything like that ever been done, like racing or
any can you I'm just trying to not that I
know of, I know that's what I'm trying to think.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
It could be really cool. Yeah wow, but yeah, I
love I love boxing movies. I'm a sucker for it.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, which ones? Which one's your favorite?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I think Rocky two is probably my favorite.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
I remember when we were in Billy Elliott, we had
this room called the Billy Room, and there was always
a Billy backstage while the show was going on. Because
the show was so labor intensive, it was very dangerous.
There's lots of moving parts, there's lots of acrobatics. It
wasn't too uncommon for a billy to get injured, and
then there would be someone upstairs who would replace that billy,
and we would just hang out upstairs, and there was
an Xbox and a television and all that sort of stuff.

(30:04):
And one of the DVDs that we had, the two
DVDs we had was Step Up to the Streets, my
favorite film of all time, and Rocky two.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
And I must have seen that film forty times.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
How many times did you practice the dance in the mirror.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I've got the whole dance down right, can we see it?

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah? No, I love that film. I absolutely love that film.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, i'd say I'd say my favorite. So Rocky was
my favor because I'd watched it with my dad and Rocky.
I struggled between Rocky three and Rocky four because I
love mister T and four three, that's three three. I
loved Ivan Drago as well, which was four and they
were both just such great movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
just yeah, it's such great entertainment, even though it's nothing

(30:44):
like real boxing.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, nothing, nothing real box.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
But then I remember watching real boxing when I was
growing up. It was printing the scene. Yeah, yeah, my
dad was a big fan of his, so I remember
watching him a lot.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I love his style.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
There's a video of him working with the I guess
it's just a swinging bag. And he is so effortless
because Canelo's got a great head movement, but he looks
like he's thinking about it, whereas Ziem is just living
the dream.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Just he's so fluid.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
And I love the way he used to move, and
I love how we would enter the ring. Me I
would overrotate and this slam on my face or something. Yeah,
he was brilliant wrestling meets boxing. He must have been
a nightmare to fight. It must have been like he's
beating me and he's embarrassing me. This is really tough, terrible.
What do you think of Lemachenko? Did you see his

(31:32):
last fight?

Speaker 3 (31:32):
I haven't. No, I didn't see it. I didn't see it.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
That's an interesting one.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Go and tell me I didn't see it at all. Well.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I think the general consensus is that he won, but
it was given the other way. He is my favorite
boxer because of his history, his background in dance. He
was like, I guess, a really talented boxer, and then
I get I don't know if this is true, but
his dad sent him to go and study dance for
sort of five years or something like that.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
For his boxing.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
For his boxing, which is why his footwork is like
on another planet. There's loads of examples of where he's
fighting people and they look up and he's just gone.
He's behind them. So I really admire him. But his
most recent fight he lost.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
How did it go against him? Was it vote?

Speaker 2 (32:10):
It was a vote? Yeah, yeah, they went against him.
So I wonder whether they'll fight again.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, I guess I'll have to if there's it seems
like this isn't a conspiracy theory.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
That's the problem with boxing though, like will they fight again?
You know, because it's a tricky it's a tricky business,
unlike the UFC, where you know, if they want to fight,
they'll fight. That's what I love about it. I took
my brother and my cousin to the UFC the other night,
and that is such a savage sport.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
It is.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
That is Yeah, it's terrifying.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
We don't want that to be a movie, and a
real one talk about so good. The Warrior is one
of the most underrated movies. That good.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
It's a little ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
The idea that they have like six fights a night
getting ready for one final.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
But I do love that film.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's a really brilliant it's a really good movie.
Oh well, okay, all right, so we know there's a
boxing movie become in somewhere. Yeah, it's got to be
one down the way.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, And we want to see you work your way
up and I mean we might see you, like, you know,
actually go do it for real.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Sound yeah, imagine for charity.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
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of the things that you mentioned recently was that you
gave up drinking about a year and a half ago. Yes,
and you said it was the hardest thing you ever did. Yes,

(34:58):
And I wanted to know what was so hard about
it for you? Why was it so hard?

Speaker 1 (35:03):
It's interesting I didn't one day wake up and say
I'm giving up drinking. I just like many Brits, had
had a very very boozy December Christmas time. I was
on vacation. I was drinking a lot. And I've always
been able to drink a lot. I think I get
my genes from my mom's side in that thing that
I can I can drink, and I decided to just

(35:24):
give up for January. I just wanted to do dry January,
and all I could think about was having a drink.
It's all I could think about. I was waking up
thinking about it. I was checking the clock, when's it twelve,
and it just really scared me. I just was like, Wow,
maybe maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing.
So I sort of decided to punish myself and say

(35:46):
I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off.
If I can do two months off, then I can
prove to myself I don't have a problem. Two months
go by and I was still really struggling. I felt
like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't
go to the pub and have a lime soda. I
couldn't go out for dinner. I was really really struggling,
and I started to really worry that maybe I had

(36:08):
an alcohol problem. So I decided that I would wait
until my birthday, which is June first. I said to myself,
if I can do six months without alcohol, then I
can prove to myself that I don't have a problem.
And by the time I had got to June first,
I was the happiest I had ever been in my life.
I could sleep better, I could handle problems better. Things

(36:30):
that would go wrong on set that would normally set
me off, I could take in my stride. I had
so much, such better mental clarity. I felt healthier, I
felt fitter, and I just sort of said to myself, like,
why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I
so obsessed by the idea of having this drink? And
I would look back and recognize that I would go

(36:51):
to events for work and be like, I can't enjoy
myself until I've had a few beers, and I just.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Felt so much pressure.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
And this is one of the things where I've sort
of distanced myself from the rugby community because so much
of it is about how much can you drink. Let's
get you as drunk as possible, and it's honestly been
the best thing I've ever done. I'm a year and
a half into it now, it doesn't even cross my mind.
I've found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic, ones
that are also really healthy. I found this one beer

(37:21):
that it's full of electrolytes and it's you know, the
carbohydrates in it are long lasting energy. So like having
a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing.
I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive
about it. I've never run into that scenario where my
friends are like, oh god on, just have a beer,
like you're fine. They've always sort of really supported me,
and I don't want to be that person that's saying

(37:42):
to people you should get sober, you should get sober.
If I get encouraged someone to drink less, then that's great,
But I don't want to start getting into the world
of you need to stop drinking, because I just it's
not for me to say. I went on my own
little journey. I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my
mum's as also given up. She's loving it and it's
been amazing. I can't believe the difference that I feel

(38:03):
from not drinking. Yeah, I feel amazing.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
That's amazing, man. I love hearing that, and I love
hearing that it's been great for you, right, I think, yeah,
that's the point. Not everything has to be like, look
what I did, you can do it too. It's kind
of like, no, this is just what's been great for me.
Do you think it was partly that attitude for you,
at least in the beginning, where it's like, well, look
I can drink. I drink a lot, comes from my
mum jeans and it doesn't affect me, and then all
of a sudden you realize, well, wait a minute, it's
more than that, Because I think there is that, Like

(38:27):
I was like that as a young man as well.
Like for me it was it was easy to drink.
I didn't drink daily. For me, I drank a lot
more socially, sure, and I love playing drinking games with
my mates. Yeah, that was really what I enjoyed the most, probably,
and for me when I quit, I could just quickly
see how it just got me into doing things I
would never do if I wasn't drunk. So for sure,
for me it was more that. But yeah, I wonder

(38:47):
for you. Did you find that. It's there's a really
fine line between like, I know, I can drink a lot,
and then all of a sudden you're kind of not
addicted beyond.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
That, I'm happy to say a lot.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
I was definitely addicted to alcohol, not suit away from
that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and
has not wakes up, anyone that has a beer every day,
it's probably got a little bit of a problem.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
But yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
I would drink and drink and drink and drink, and
then you would just reach that moment where you're like, well,
I shouldn't have had that last beer, and you wake
up the next day and you have a terrible headache
and you're suffering.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I bought one of those rings that will.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Tell you about your sleep, yeah, or a ring yeah,
and it was amazing because I couldn't sleep.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I was like, why can't I sleep?

Speaker 1 (39:23):
I'm working fourteen hours a day, I'm doing two hours
in the gym, I'm eating really healthily, and I can't sleep.
What's wrong with me? I bought this ring and it
was booze. It just it was completely affecting my sleep.
And since I've given it up. I can sleep anywhere,
you know. It's also interesting as well, going on nights
out and having a great time as the sober person

(39:43):
and then getting to that point in the night where
people start, you know, spitting in your ear and everyone's
I love you, man, I love you so much, and
you're like, yeah, brilliant, I love you too. I see
tomorrow I'm going to bed. I love being that person now.
I love seeing my friends on the golf course at
eight am in the morning feeling and ready to go
and they're sort of crawling out their car. So yeah,

(40:04):
so I'm over the moon to be sober.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah. For anyone who is listening right now and is
going Tom, I love that for you. I want to
do it too. Like they're listening, going, I'm having too
much every day. I can notice some of those things,
but I'm just stuck. And it's hard because we know
that addictions that way, we know that this is heavy.
It's not easy. But if someone is watching, going Tom,
tell me what did you do to even get started?
How did you have that courage to say I'm going

(40:29):
to do January. I'm going to stick at it. Were
there any moments where you actually fell back and then
I had to get back on the horse again, Like,
we'll just walk us through that a little bit more
for anyone who is watching, going, tom mate, I want
to be in your position in like six months.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
I didn't fall back on it. I have done in
the past.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
I've had periods of my life where I'd given up
drinking and then gone back to drinking.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
But this time, I don't know, it was just different.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I really worked to sort of change my mindset. I
really asked myself, like, why do you drink? Why are
you drinking? And a lot of the time my answer
would be to feel more comfortable in the social environment,
and I just put myself in those environments and just
would force myself to be there. I'd force myself to
hang out and go to a club, or go to
a bar, go to a dinner.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
As we went avoiding those places.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
I was at the beginning because I didn't feel like
I could go and not have a drink because of
the stress of it. But then after a while I
sort of was like, mate, you've got to pull your
socks up here, and you can't just live in your
house all the time.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
You've got to go out and enjoy yourself. And if
you're only.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Enjoying yourself because you're drinking, then you really do have
a problem. But I just changed my mindset. I found
really good replacements. Things that I could sort of attribute
to having a beer I often found with me. Most
of it is just the ritual of cracking something open
and sharing it with friends and drinking it. Whether it's
sparkling water or a beer. I now can't I don't

(41:52):
associate like I don't see a difference, but I think
it's different for everyone. I had a great support system.
Jack is one of my best mates and we travel
all over the world. Doesn't drink, and doing it with
him was a really helpful experience for me.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
My brother is always on the road with me. He
was very supportive, and.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, I just really set my mind to it. I
was like, I really want to do this. I want
to prove to myself I can do it. And then
once I'd felt the health benefits and started really feeling
like my full self, it was like, oh my god,
this is this is the best.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
But do you not drink?

Speaker 3 (42:21):
I haven't drank for seventeen years. No way, amazing, Yeah,
it was it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
So one of the best feelings in the world, and
it's my biggest like worry when I was about to quit,
was like, how am I going to hang out with
my mates? I was like, my mates knew me as
the guy who was like first of the game, last
to get out. That was me, you know, the clown
when I got drunk, like life of the party, kind
of like that kind of guy. And then all of
a sudden, I decided I wasn't gonna drink anymore. I
was like, crap, I'm going to fit in. And then

(42:49):
I remember I went into the corporate world for a
bit and I didn't drink, and I was like, God,
am I going to miss out on opportunities and networking?
Like you know, all the guys afterwards are like going
to get drinks and I'm like, oh, but I'll have
a water or I'll have a soda, whatever it is.
And what was really interesting for me is not relying
on drinking made me rely on qualities and skills I

(43:12):
had sure that were actually better. So now that I
couldn't drink as an excuse to hang with the lads,
I was bringing out parts of my personality that I
probably would have just hidden away. Yeah, surpressed, and all
of a sudden you were actually getting respected and liked
for who you were rather than the person who you
were when you were drunk. Sure, and actually that worked
in the workplace, and there was no one at the

(43:32):
workplace going RJ doesn't drink, so he's not getting promoted.
It wasn't like that. People were like, oh, yeah, hanging
out with J, or he's a really good guy, or
whatever it may be. And I was still getting the
same opportunities, and I was still getting promoted at work
and whatever it was. And I think that's what I'd
like to remind people that don't feel like your career
or your work is going to suffer even for you
like you've I'm sure as a you know, with your

(43:54):
career path, you have to be at parties, you have
to be at events co And the fact that you're
able to do that now without having alcohol and you don't,
it doesn't sound like it's negatively impacting your career. If anything,
it is the opposite.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Mate, I honestly cannot believe like the amount of times
I've sat down with an actor that I've really admired
or sat down with the producer or director and being like, oh,
you know, well, I don't drink anymore, and they go, I.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Don't drink ten years and you're like, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
And I've had so many insightful conversations with people like
yourself where you've heard their story, their reason for giving up,
and there is a wonderful community of people and I
love it. I love being a part of that community.
I'm really proud to be a part of it. I
hope that, you know, I can meet other people and
chat them about it, because it's really nice.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's lovely to be like, let's go to get a
lime cioner together, you know, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Let's get a juice, let's get a smooth Yeah. Yeah, No,
it is true. It's true, and it's really interesting because
they I can't remember. I'm trying to remember. There was
this blog that came out years ago. I can't even
remember it now, and there was this girl on Instagram
who was getting a lot of likes and a lot
of comments and a lot of attention, and one day

(44:58):
she just disappeared, like she stopped posting, and everyone's just
like all the comments were like, where are you? What happened?
Are you okay, like what happened to you? You know,
everyone was frantic trying to figure out what happened to
her because they loved her, they were following her and
all the rest of it. And what they didn't know
is that it was built by a team that was
trying to show that. What people didn't notice is that

(45:18):
in every picture she posted, she was drinking and it
was a made up It was almost like original AI
that was made up to prove the point that you
can love someone and you can think you're really close
to them, and you you could think their lifestyle looks amazing,
but actually they've got a drink in every picture they post,
and you didn't realize that an alcohol problem. So there
was no real person who died. But the point was
that this your friends could be struggling even when they're

(45:40):
posting these beautiful lifestyle pictures. But are you aware, wow,
and are you conscious of how much it affects you?
And I can't can't remember who built that. Well.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
I think that's one of the problems with alcohol, is
that if you came out with alcohol right now, if
alcohol wasn't a thing, and you like, I've invented this
drink that is going to make you like, either really
happy or really aggress If we're really stupid and we're
going to just sell it to the masses, people be like, now, mate,
keep your funky juice, Like we don't want that.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
That sounds terrible.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
And it's one of those things because it is so
socially acceptable that the addiction side of it, the bad
sides of it, really do fly under the radar. And
that's really interesting. I'd say something I do love about
being a non drinker. I love being the designated driver.
I love being that person that makes sure that everyone
gets home. I don't know, I just I like being
a dependable person. I think I'm quite dependable, and I

(46:30):
really like that that thing. And I saw this crazy
YouTube video once, This was years ago, of a guy
that went to a bar, he got drunk, and he
drove home and he.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Crashed his car.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
And I don't know if this is real. It could
have been fake, but it's really impactful. Basically, what his
friend had done was set up the room as if
he had been in a coma for like ten years.
And his friend wakes up hours after the crash and
his friend is there and he had all like old
makeup on to make him look older, and now I'm

(47:04):
thinking about it, there's no way this could have been real,
because how would they have been able to pull that off?
But he basically is saying to him, like, you've been
asleep for ten years. Everyone's missed you, Like we can't
believe you're awake. This is amazing and it shows like
how a stupid decision like driving drunk can affect the
future of your life. So I do love being the
designated driver. That is something I enjoy seeing my friends

(47:24):
have a good time and being like, don't worry, Tom
will take you.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah. I used to love being the designated driver until
I realized that next girlfriend just had me do that
because I was the one who didn't do that right,
That wasn't a fun design driver. Yeah, but I've always
been that guy since. Because so I lived as a
monk for three years. Yeah, and when I came back
after that, obviously I never went back to drinking alcohol
and everything, and so but I went back into the workplace,

(47:47):
and I remember everyone would always open up to me
and give me advice. But it's what you're saying. When
someone was drunk, they tell me their whole life story.
Next day, they'd come and go, Jay, you'd actually remember
what I said. I remember everything, like, please don't tell anyone. Yeah,
you know. I loved that part where I was like
I was able to be there for people to hear
their stories and someone that had context the next day,
because if they told someone else who was drunk, you'd

(48:08):
both not remember then it'd be gone.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
No.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
I think the benefits that you've just pointed out of
good sleep, good health, mental clarity huge. But there's a
couple of things I want to point out for everyone
who's listening, just as takeaways, because Tom makes it so
seamless when you're talking about it's really beautiful as well.
But one of the things you mentioned was finding alternatives.
And during my month life, we always talked about how
there was there was something that we called the higher taste,

(48:32):
and it was saying you can never give up a
lower taste unless you had a higher taste, sure, and
so there has to be a switch, there has to
be a replacement. And the fact that you found alternatives,
I think that's half the battle, because most of us
are trying to take something out of our lives and
then you're just trying to fill it and then you
have to go back to what you had before because
you're not finding a replacement. So that was beautiful. And
the second thing you said, which I loved, which was

(48:53):
having this conversation and dialogue with other people, someone who's
one year ahead of you, someone who's ten years ahead,
someone's twenty year ahead, who's gone through that process, and
they're open and honest and vulnerable about well, you know,
I did have a week moment or you know what.
This was really tough for me, and I think having
those communities where you can talk about these things makes
a massive difference. So if anyone struggling, I hope then

(49:14):
those two things can kind of, you know, give you
the support you need.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
And again it goes back to the message of the
show is that like, you should ask for help, and
you should feel in powered to do so, but tell
me about.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Your monk life. Like that must have been amazing.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Respect, I've always been so tempted to go away and
do one of those retreats where you know, you go
to somewhere like India and you go to those places
we don't speak for a month or something like that,
Like that must have just been the most enlightening experience.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Mate, Now that you've said that, when you want to go,
I'm going to take you.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Please, I absolutely love to go.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
I met a guy I was on holiday earlier this year,
and he had just got back from a retreat he
did two weeks where he didn't make a sound and
was just explaining to me how eye opening it was.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean to me, it was one
of the best the experiences of my life because even
the stuff that I did then, I was twenty two
years old when I did it. Even the stuff that
I did then, I don't even know if I'd be
able to do it anymore now. But there was such
a like energy you had as a twenty two year
old just opened to any experience and wanting to try
it all out amazing. And I think for me it

(50:16):
was because and it comes back to the people that
have done things. When I was eighteen was when I
first met a monk. I never really knew what monks
did or any of their practices, but I met a
monk who I write about in my book, who just
blew my mind because he was the first person I
met that I felt was at ease with himself. And

(50:36):
when I was eighteen. I'd met people who were like
rich and famous and you know, beautiful and powerful and
all this type of stuff, but I don't think i'd
met anyone who was truly happy and content with themselves.
Not happy like, oh I'm so happy, Life's amazing. I
mean more like happy with who they who they were.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
And for some reason at eighteen, that kind of like
was an arrow straight to my heart where I was like,
that's that's real, Like I want that, And it just
it's so hard to explain because everyone's like, well, how
did you know that eighteen? I was like, I don't know.
It must have been how powerful he was. It's kind
of like it's kind of like you wake up when
when the sun's out and the lights out, and you
just wake up because you feel that energy. And I

(51:15):
felt it through him. And then I went to university
and i'd talk to him and i'd meet him in
the summers and Christmases. But I just decided, I was like,
I want to do this because I'd met someone who
I felt had emotional and mental mastery in a way
that I'd never seen before. Wow. And so when I
went out there and whether it was the meditation training,
or whether it was the simplicity training of the lifestyle,

(51:38):
or whether it was the teachings and the values that
you had to live by. I just got so I
got so much from it that I honestly believe that
anything that I'm good at doing today is because of
what I learned during that time. And so anything I'm
good at today is because of that.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Do you think that you found what he had?

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Yeah? I believe so, And I would say that or
hasn't Yeah, yeah, And I still see him every year,
amazing and he still has it. Yeah, it's like swag,
like it doesn't go. Yeah, he still has it. And yeah, definitely, definitely.
I got a glimpse into it. Obviously he's been doing
it for you know, nearly thirty years, and yeah, I
only did it for three. But you still get to

(52:16):
a glimpse of it and you get an experience of it,
so you know that it exists. And I think that's
half the battle too, Like even with your sobriety, it's
like you just need to know it exists totally and
then you're like, wow, there's this other side. And even
though it's a challenge, and even though I'm still trying
to be more mindful every day, and I'm still working
on myself because it's I know, yeah, it's ending going yeah,

(52:37):
I know, I know. And I take a lot of
friends and people I know on retreats there because just
a couple of years ago, I took someone that I
love to one of the caves in Rishi kish. So
one of the things I love about caves is that
they're equally dark and silent. So it's almost like the
first time, like we could be silent in this room
and it would be silent, but the silence of a cave.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Is just a different level.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Yeah, And so when you go then you can't see
anything either, so you can't even see yourself.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
So you're so deep into the cave that there's no
light from the mouth of the caves.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
There's no light from the mouth of the cave, no
your hold hands. But it's just it's one of those
experiences that you actually get to experience real stillness and
real silence and real disconnection sure from everything around you,

(53:26):
and then you can actually listen to yourself.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
That it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I would love to do something like that, something that
I find myself doing a lot is if I see
a beautiful landscape or something, I will try and see
if I can find an angle of it where there's
nothing man made in the view, because you know what
it's like, like you see a beautiful heel or something

(53:51):
and there's a telephone pole in the middle of it
or a lamp post or something. So doing something like
that where there is nothing but just mother nature and
the silence and being with yourself. I'm obsessed with nature.
It's one of my biggest passions. I'm absolutely like this
new Our Planet show has just come out. One sitting,
I've done the whole thing. So I would love to

(54:12):
do something like that. So the next time you go in.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Yeah, figure it out. No, Where's Where's the place I
love nature too. I just took me and my wife
just went to Bali, Yeah, and it was unbelievable. We
went whitewater rafting and it almost felt like Jurassic Park.
I was just waiting for a dinosaur head and it
was just beautiful. It's so lash, it was so natural,
that waterfalls everywhere. And another place that I've loved nature wise,

(54:35):
India of course we mentioned, but Iceland. I would love
to go to Iceland A few years ago, and my
friend was filming a documentary out there, and so I
got to experience it with the documentary travelers, and we
went to a real glacier and we went to amazing
you know, and it was incredible to just it was
the first time I felt like I'd landed on another planet. Yeah, yeah,
it was just I literally I was like, this looks

(54:57):
like nothing I've ever seen before in my life. Like
I'm on another Like I I could have I could
have gone into outer space and landed.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
There's a reason why every single space film Iceland is
the first on the list for locations. And I don't
know that everyone think Interstellar probably, I'm sure all of
those films, you know, because you could do you could
do Mars, you could do Venus all in you know,
in Iceland.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
I would love to go. I don't know. We were thinking.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
About doing some climbing, and I'm not sure about how
I feel about glaciers and walking across them and just
falling and never being found.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Yeah, we we walked across them, and obviously there were
teams there, and then they had an expert and they
went down into the glacier like they went into one
like and it was, and it was really scary because
while we were walking on the glacier, we've got that
I forgot the those little boots are called the ones
with the kind of like.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
The little prongs.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Yeah, yeah, I forgot what they called. But anyway, we
had those on and crapons crampons, Jack, and so we're
wearing these cramp and literally it was like three steps
further and you're you would have fallen and you don't see.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
It, and you would never be found.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
You would never be found and you never know, and
it would be like that movie, was it, one hundred
and twenty six hours? Yeah, the guy had to saw
off his own arms one.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Hundred and twenty six hours, mate in ten minutes. Yeah, no,
that that's a bit too far for me.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Well, if you went with a group of you know,
experts and all the rest of it.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah, but you've seen the documentary.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Sometimes the experts go out and it's it's a one
way story. They don't ever come back, you know.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you got You've got to be careful.
I agree. I agree. I'll show you some videos later there.
Because it was pretty love to Yeah, it was pretty spectacular.
It was really amazing. No, I love I loved that
with your journey with Sobrite. And and again, the other
thing we were talking about this earlier, going back to it,
was you decided to take a break from acting. Yeah,
because you were doing this role it was really tough

(56:50):
and challenging, and you're like, you need some time. And
again you were saying that that was misconstrued, and just
before we dive into why you needed to take a
break and what was challenged about it, I just wanted
to just if you wanted to give context to that,
and you don't have to, but if you want it
ures to clarify what you meant and what was going
on there.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It's only a break from acting because I'm an actor.
It's not like the acting itself. I just have been
so lucky that in my life I've been working so much.
I just wanted to take a break. I just wanted
to be in one place for a while. I wanted
to be with my friends, be with my family, move
into my house. So it wasn't necessarily oh my god,
I need to have a break from acting because it's

(57:30):
too much. I just needed to have a break from
traveling and working. And also I've done so much of
my growing up on the road. I needed to do
a lot of growing up at home, paying my water bill,
pay in my council tax, and sorting out my bins
and all that sort of stuff that they don't teach
you at school, which I think there should be a lesson.
I think there should be a lesson at school that's
called life, which is like laundry, basic cooking. Like I

(57:55):
didn't realize you have to pay for your water. I
just thought that was a luxury of living in England.
What comes out the sky and then it comes out
your tap.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
I was so behind on my water bill. I didn't realize.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I'm up to date now, don't worry. So yeah, I
just wanted to take this break. And it's a shame
again talking about the press and how they can spin things.
It's a shame that this year off has come after
this incredibly hard job, and that they kind of ran
with this idea that yes the show did break me,
and yes it was difficult, but I could have gone
back to work. I was always planning on taking this
break after this job. So thank you for giving me

(58:27):
the time to sort of clarify that I am loving
having time off and going back to work is something
that isn't.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Really on my radar yet.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I'm just loving being with my family and my friends
and enjoying, you know, the fruits of my labor a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
And traveling and seeing.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
The world because you know, we get to see the
world for work, but it's different. Yeah, you know, going
off of your own accord and seeing these places and
meeting people is what I love. I'm very social, which
is one of the things I found so difficult about
giving up alcohol is because I was like, that's my
key to my social life, and then I really I
was like, no, you're just actually naturally a really social person.

(59:04):
The alcohol is just an additive to that, so we
get rid of it. So yeah, so my year off
has been amazing. I'm loving it. I'm six months, seven
months into it now. I have a job to go to.
But you know, obviously we're going through this writer's strike
right now. We're unsure as to where we are. I'm
hoping that, you know, the writers can make a deal
and we'll be looked after as they.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Should be, because it'd be great to get back to work.
But I'm in no rush. I'm really loving some time
at home. Yeah, because how old are you now, twenty seven?

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Yeah, and so if you've been working since you're nine
or at least later on into your teens, I think, Yeah,
I think people forget that. And I coach personally a
lot of musicians and who go on tour a lot. Sure.
And I just finished a forty city world tour for
my second book, and we did like forty cities maybe
in like seventy five eighty days maybe, Like it was intense,
and we went all over the world.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
So we did like fifty done anything like that.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Yeah, did fifteen cities in the US and then twenty
five cities around the world. And so we did everyone
from in Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Melbourne, we did three shows
at the Sydney Opera House, Brisbane, did Singapore, did five
shows in India, did Dubai and it was amazing. I
had one of the best experiences of my life. At
the same time, I was reflecting on my music clients

(01:00:16):
who have to do one hundred hundred and fifty shows.
A lot of them pull out of doing their tours.
A lot of them announce kind of like you're saying,
I took a break. Sure, a lot of them will
announce and say, you know what, guys, I can't I
can't finish, I can't do it anymore. And it's really
interesting because I messaged some of them straight away saying
I always could understand why you needed that. Sure, now
I actually have actual empathy for you because now I'm

(01:00:38):
on the road and I can see how displacing it is. Sure,
and I'm older and I have a certain set of
skills that helped me with that, based on my monk
life and all the rest of it. But I can
imagine if you've been touring since you were fifteen years old,
which is what a lot of these artists have done,
Like you just said, you grow up on the road, sure,
and then all of a sudden you're like, well, who

(01:00:59):
am I? Who are my friends? And what is my life?
And now everyone that I pay is my friend and
that's the only friends I have, and you know, and
so it's really interesting how when you get a little
glimpse into someone's life. And then on the last show
I had was in Barcelona and then yeah it was amazing.
And the night before my last show, Live Nation, who
was doing my show there. They also do a cold

(01:01:20):
place tour and they were like, do you want to
come to cold watch Copla? I'd love to watch Coplash.
So when the night before to watch Coplex Unbelievable. They
did four sold out shows of sixty five thousand people
each night in Barcelona and Chris. I went towards the
fourth night and Chris Martin and the crew were just unbelievable.
And then I found out as the eighty ninth show
and I was thinking, gosh, like it is so hard,

(01:01:41):
Like it's just so hard, and all their families are
with them and traveling with them and all the rest
of it. And so I want to touch on that
with you as well, that walk us through, because I've
talked about this with actors offline, and I don't think
I've fully done it online, And so if you're willing
to go there, I'd really appreciate it. When you're playing
a role, I think as a viewer we massively underestimate

(01:02:03):
how hard acting is, especially when the role is the
kind of role that you're playing in the crowded room. Yeah.
I think we just underestimate as a viewer. And I'm
fortunate enough to know enough actors offline where I've had
these conversations before, whether whether it's people who do method
acting or whether it's people who you know, really try
and get into character, Like you always hear about the
stories of like how Jared Letto already was becoming the

(01:02:24):
Joker was sending people rats and human feces in their
male Like literally, like, what if.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
You send me human feces in my mail? There'd be trouble.
I wouldn't be putting up with that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
You and Jared Letter in a boxing man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, boxing movie then.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
But but you know the idea of like I think,
I think as viewers, we don't. It's what I'm saying
is like when I went on tour, I was like,
I get it. I get it. Now, as viewers, we
don't get it because we don't really hear about the
deep process that actors go through of getting into a
role playing someone with multiple personalities, Like you know that
I don't know. Is that is that tough? For? Is

(01:03:00):
Is that not? Am I getting it wrong? And that's
not actually the tough part.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
You're definitely not getting it wrong. I think it's just different.
It's case by case. You know, there are people like
Jared who dive into their roles and they do things
like sending people dead rats and stuff like that, and
they think that that's what they need to do. I've
always been really good at separating my onset emotions from
my personal life emotions. As a young kid, I used
to really heavily rely on my personal emotions to get

(01:03:27):
them to come across on screen, and I just found
it really unhealthy. I just found that the line between
my life and my character's life would be blurred, and ultimately,
at the end of the experience of making the film,
I would be a very different person, but not because
of my experiences as Tom. It would be because of
my experiences as my character. So I decided very early

(01:03:47):
on to find certain techniques in certain ways to get
into those emotions from a sort of technical point of view.
I never sit on set and think about my mum
getting sick, or or speaking to my brothers again, or
something like that. I never blur the lines with my
personal life and my work life. I always leave work
at work. There are jobs like the crowded room that

(01:04:10):
are particularly taxing. Getting to those emotions on a daily
basis is really difficult and really tiring, but you know,
it's probably somewhat like Coldplay on the eighty ninth show,
you just dig your heels in. You realize you've got
a job to do. We're all wonderfully well paid. There
are people that work far harder for far less. I
recognize how lucky I am, so I'm like, if I

(01:04:30):
need to cry today and tomorrow and the next fifty
days in a row, I'll do so. Yes, it's difficult,
but I think your question, I'm probably the worst person
to ask that, because I think I have like a
really healthy outlook on how I achieved my emotions on set.
But I have worked with people that shut their bedroom

(01:04:50):
door and just dive into the character and are pouring
through the script every night and are in character all
the time, and I admire them. I don't necessarily think
it's the healthier way to go about it, But yeah,
I've always been really strict on myself to leave my
work at work. Obviously, I come home and read the
script and do all of my prep work, but I'm
not I'm leaving the character at work because it's too

(01:05:11):
it's too much, especially when you're playing a character like
Danny from the crowded room, like you can't bring that
into your personal life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
It's tough.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that. But I'm actually glad I
asked it to you the way, because what I'm actually
hearing is you did it early on and you saw
it wasn't healthy, sure, and so you actually found another way. Yeah,
And it's really interesting because a lot of people may
not have found another way, or that is their way
and that is their method, and so it actually is
interesting hearing it from your perspective because you're actually saying, yeah,

(01:05:42):
I could have gone down that road, so I could
see the dangers with it, right, And obviously depends on
the roles too. Sorry you're going to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Say no, it's just it's my acting coach. Ben Perkins
was my acting coach on my first film, and that
film's really really emotionally intense, and we started off by
doing things like can you imagine you know your mum passing?
Or can you imagine things like that, and I would
cry instantly, and he was the one that actually recognized
at a point, this is too much for this young

(01:06:09):
kid to kind of take. So he devised these exercises
where him and I could kind of have these fake
arguments where I was as a twelve year old, Oh,
maybe I was older than that thirteen year old could
recognize that they were exercises, and I would allow the
emotion to kind of come from these kind of acting techniques,
let's call it. So it's actually Ben that was the

(01:06:30):
one that switched my mindset.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
I can't take credit for that. Yeah, so you live
in LA.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Yeah, so I moved to LA five years ago and
I moved to the state seven years ago. So I
was in New York for the first two.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Whereabout to New York.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
I was on twenty third Street near Flat Eye in Okay, nice. So, yeah,
it was good in Manhattan, and moved with my wife
Wemain married for seven years for ten fantastic And yeah,
it's just been really interesting mate. It's like, did you
ever end up moving, did you ever live in LA
or a tall or in the US at all? Or
have you always been in London.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Sort of what we were talking about earlier. I've kind
of lived all over the place.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
I've lived in LA, I've lived in New York, I've
lived in Atlanta, you know, I've lived in Cleveland, which
was amazing. So I really liked spending time in the States. Yeah,
which is obviously crowded room. We did a year in
New York. We moved to dry Beeker. We started off
in Midtown, and Midtown for me was a bit of
a nightmare. It's all the schools are so I come
home from work and I come outside and it's like

(01:07:27):
all the biggest Spider Man fans you've ever seen you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Yeah, it's like the worst.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
We moved out to Tribeca to this amazing apartment, which
was really lovely.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
We're very lucky to be down there. But where, so
how do you find LA? I?

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
So, you know what it's really interesting is when I
moved to New York first, Yeah, and I loved it.
I found New York to be just a bigger, crazier London,
a bit more intense. Yeah yeah, yeah, And I love London.
I'm a London boy through and through. I went to
university here, and my family's still here, my wife's family
is here. Everyone's amazing and so but I enjoyed New York.
My wife didn't love New York. And also at the

(01:08:05):
same time, I started spending more time in LA for work,
and my wife and I just like fell more in
love with each other when we were there, And so
that's what it was that drew us there. It wasn't
really everyone's as like, ah, I was it career, and
I was like, to be honest, we went there for
a month for work, and we rented an apartment because
we're going to be there for a month and we're
living together there, and we just loved living with each

(01:08:27):
other there. Home is heart, yeah exactly, and so we were like,
all right, we love it here, why don't we pack
our bags and move across And so we went back
in New York. Two months later we moved over to
La So it wasn't even you know, and now we've
been there for five years. And the truth is that
I was really intentional when I moved somewhere. So while
I'm building my purpose and my work and my career,
which I absolutely love what I get to do every

(01:08:48):
day and I could never have dreamed of doing what
I do to them, super grateful, but at the same time,
I was really intentional about building community and family and
it was like an actual like thought process sure where
I was like, as well, as you're always building the
people you know at work, you always building relationships, you're
hiring employees and team members and everything. At the same time,
I've got to think about actually making friendships. Because in London,

(01:09:11):
I've got all my mates. So I've got my best
man at my wedding, I've been mates with Rods for
like seventeen years, like I've got people around me. But
in la I don't have that. I don't have any family,
any friends, I don't know anyone, and so I've really
made an effort. And now after five years, I can
honestly say, you know, obviously not in a wonderful way,
but the pandemic did help deepen some of those friendships
because I was stuck with those people, so I only

(01:09:31):
could go deeper, made some really good friends nice and
so I feel happy there and I feel really connected
to my purpose there. And at the same time, I
love coming back to London right and hanging out with
my mates. And so I've and me and my wife
made a decision when we moved that we would never
say we lived anywhere. We would just be allowed to
go wherever we wanted to go. So whenever my wife

(01:09:52):
missus London, she's back on a flight to London. She'll
come live here for two months and come back whenever
she wants. Amazing, and it's the same for me, and
that kind of like not having a rule around. You know,
obviously we're lucky to have that choice.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
That's an amazing luxury to have.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Yeah, And but yeah, I share the same kind of
outlook on it. You know, I couldn't really say I
live anywhere. I sort of live where the work is,
and when I'm not working, I'm either here or in
la And I'm so lucky to be able to sort
of call the world my home.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
I just go wherever the wind takes me, I guess exactly.
But that's glorious.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Yeah, man, Yeah, it's been good. It's been good for me.
It's been good to me. And I think because of
the work I do, it very clearly lets people know
whether I'd connect to them or not. I feel like
my work is so obviously one way sure that it's
very easy because not everyone wants this in their lives,
So it's kind of easy for people to be like, no,
I'm not going to make any efford, going to make
lots of effrowidge in So it kind of makes it

(01:10:45):
very easy because my work is me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Do you find because of what you do and your
skill set and your experiences and your life is a
monk that people unload on you a lot. Yes, Like
you might meet a new person and they're sort of saying, well,
I'm feeling this way and I would love to try
and get to a place of enlightenment.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Like that must happen to you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
A lot, Yes, yeah, a lot. It can happen at
the train station, having on a plane, it can happen
anywhere in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Yeah, And do you welcome those conversations? Do you like
having those sorts of conversations?

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
So I think it depends where we are, sure, and
it depends who it is. And I always say to
people as a disclaimer that I don't want to give
you the belief that I can solve your life in
thirty seconds, yeah right, or that I could ever solve
your life for you, just to be really clear. And
I always say that to people because people are like, Jay,

(01:11:34):
tell me what I need to do, and I'll be like, look,
I just wanted to be fully aware that I'm happy
to share some insights with you, but I don't have
the power or gift or magical ability right to transform
your life. And nothing I can say in thirty seconds.
I don't even want to take that responsibility on, because
we should really think about this, like you should reflect

(01:11:55):
on your life, like especially when people are making big
decisions where it's like Jay, should I break up? Should
I move kind we should do this? And I'm like,
we're not solving this in thirty seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
This is a bigger conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
Yeah, And I like people that takes the pressure off me,
but it also takes the pressure off them. Yeah, because
a lot it's not even about me. This is about
the fact that that person needs to make a really
important decision and they're putting all the pressure of their
life on that moment. And actually I'm saying, well, let's
just take it off and here's a few things I
want you to reflect and think about. And I know
that will help you and you'll figure it out. And
so yeah, I welcome them because I appreciate that. I

(01:12:27):
don't feel that I'm the one holding space and I
don't believe that I'm the one who has the power
to hold space. I believe that the universe holds space.
I believe that energetically that space is held for others,
and I don't feel I'm this powerful human beings who's
the one that everything rests on sure and has the
answer to everything, and I think that's what allows me

(01:12:48):
to be liberated from it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Yeah, no, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Like. I also don't put the pressure on myself, going, God,
I better say the most perfect thing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
To this person's life.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Yeah, and I can't and I don't. And I think
once upon a time I probably did feel that way,
Like when you're when you're immature and you're an amateur
in your work, you almost feel like you have to
have all the answers. And I'm like, you know what,
I don't and it's fine, and actually people really appreciate
it when you just chat to them and you know,
and so yeah, and again you know, I'm always happy
to listen to someone when I can. Obviously, there's sometimes

(01:13:18):
when I'm like rushing late for a plane or yeah, yeah,
and I can't. I can't do it, sure, but I
always stop and say hello, give someone a hug, and yeah.
So I don't have to answers the question, but.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
No, absolutely it does.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
I guess what's interesting what you're saying about making decisions.
Something that I am constantly battling with myself is the
inner battle between my gut and my brain.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
And that sounds really weird.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
No, like it's real.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
I go with my gut a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
I'm very very I think a lot of the decisions
I make in life are very sort of instinctual. I
don't like to be bombarded with evidence and facts and
all that sort of stuff. I just like to feel
a certain way about how I would like something to
sort of transpire. Can be taking a film, accepting a gript,
doing a business deal, buying a house, like, it's all
sorts of different things through your monk life. Did you

(01:14:05):
feel like you would rely on your kind of inner
instincts rather than like getting the evidence of this is
going to make you this much money?

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Or if you do that, these are the risks. How
do you? Where do you stand with that sort of thing?
That's the most poorly worded question.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
No, no, no, mate, mate, I think both. I think
this has been such a conversation that that is what
a question sounds like in a conversation, right, And I
think I've asked you fairly poorly worded questions today as well.
But I think that's what real communicata. Yeah, rather than like, mate,
I've got a question word like right? But no, I
think I get what you're saying, and if I go
on the wrong track, let me know. But living as

(01:14:43):
a monk, you're trained to understand that everything exists in
a certain mode. And so I'll explain what that means.
And so in the monk philosophy, there are three modes,
and the modes are the mode of ignorance, the mode
of passion, and the mode of goodness. And it's said
that every day decision, every thought, every action, every intention,

(01:15:04):
every relationship can be in the mode of ignorance, mode
of passion, or mode of goodness. And the mode of
ignorance is where your relationships or any act is based
on insecurity of fear. So when you're doing something out
of fear, or you're doing it out of insecurity, or
you're doing it out of pressure, that's considered the mode
of ignorance. And energetically we all feel that right like
you know, whether you I would know whether you were

(01:15:26):
being forced to do this interview today out of out
of some sort of fear or some sort of whatever.
Maybe the mode of passion is where you're doing something
because you want a certain result, you're doing it just
for the reward, you're doing it just because it's going
to get you what you want, it's going to get
you to the goal, okay, And so that's considered the

(01:15:46):
mode of passion. And again energetically you can tell that
when someone has an agenda or someone wants something out
of you, you've.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Come here to get my point across on something or
right totally.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
And then finally, the mode of goodness is the energy
of like, I feel really at peace, I feel really ease.
This feels aligned with my values, and therefore it feels
like the right decision. And so we were trained to
sense energetically whether things felt like the mode of ignorance,
modi passion or mode of goodness, which was a really
helpful framework because sometimes things were really hard to just

(01:16:19):
sense without knowing where it sat in terms of a
characteristics interesting and so that was really really helpful at
the time. And so I find that I'm I'm the
same as you where I make decisions energetically. But I
think having moved into the real world again, I felt
that I had to start getting used to understanding other

(01:16:39):
elements kind of what you've mentioned earlier, which I loved,
which was like I wish they had a class on
life at school. Because it's like you haven't paid your bill,
and you know you you know, there's football players not
paying their taxes or whatever, and maybe and like that,
maybe for different reasons, but anyway, you get the point
that there's some things that you just don't know. And
so what I've started to do, and I've I've said
this a few times. So that's where it's a little

(01:17:00):
formula that I use when I sit down with someone,
whether it's business, whether it's relationships, whether it's work, even
whether it's this. The first thing is always energy. That's
my first gait that I want to get through. And
if I don't feel energetically aligned with someone, then already
there's no future here, like it's not going wow. And
then the next thing I look at is strategically if
it's business. So if it's personal, it's only energy. But

(01:17:23):
if it's business, I look at, well, I like this
person energetically. Do I think they're strategically aligned with where
this has to go? Like, do I think they can
actually implement this? Do I believe because a lot of
people have great energy, but they don't have to implement anything.
And then finally I look at well does the money align,
does the monetary value aligned with the energy and strategy. Sure,

(01:17:44):
that's been my business version of what I learned as among.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
So what you're saying then that is a combination of
both correct allowing your gut, your energy to kind of
allow yourself to pursue further the opportunity, and then you
take a sort of mental look at it to be like,
I'm accepting the opportunity from an emotional point of view.
Now I need to see if it makes sort of
logical sense.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
Correct, and if it doesn't, then we're going to stop
there again, right, Yeah, exactly. So I've found that more
useful for me because I found that energetically, I can
get excited about a lot of stuff and the same yeah,
and I'm that kind of person, and again, I never
want to block that. At the same time, I think
we have to become more selective with our opportunities and
know when to say no and know how to managed stuff.

(01:18:29):
And that's at least helped me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
So again I'm not saying anyone else to live like that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
I'm just it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
It's really interesting. I am very much like go off
my guar. I'll tell you what my mum is an
unbelievable judge of character. Wow, And I think she might
have without knowing what you're talking about, where she can
pick up on people's energies because we can meet a
new person. As a family, we've met this new person,
three of us could love this new person and another

(01:18:55):
three could not like this new person. And my mom
will be like, no, no, don't like that person, And
then within six months all of us like.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Do you remember that person that we were really good
friends with for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
She's really got a keen eye for people that we
would get along with.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
That.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
Moms are like that now that you say that. All
my mates who let me down when I was a
teenager and I was like, mom, no, they're my best friend.
I'm never going to leave them. They're like a brother
to me. And they're like, seven months later, the person
stabbed you in the back and then you're like, oh, yeah,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
But the good thing about mums is they wouldn't judge
you for it. Yeah, they're like, look, I told you,
but you have to make your own.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
Stead Yeah, exactly exactly. But it's interesting that you've been
able to hold onto that, and I love that. Do
you feel like you were asking me about moving to
LA and I think, what have you felt? And there's
a part of you that's obviously wanting to be back
in Kingston, be back to sure have you felt that
there's been parts of yourself that have been challenged? I
don't feel sitting with you today that you know. I

(01:19:54):
don't know you before, I don't know you after. I've
only met you today, so I can't judge who you
are or what you And that's all I can say
is that when I'm sitting with you today, I feel
like I'm sitting with an authentic individual and your energy
comes across very easily.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
Do you feel like you've had to hold on to
that at times with opportunities, challenges the industry? Or is
that all stuff that we kind of make up in
our heads and it's actually just be yourself and you're fine.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
I really don't know the answer to that question.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
I've definitely walked away from a lot, and I think
had I not walked away from certain situations, let's just
put it at that, I would be a very different
person today. I've been really good at keeping in touch
with my friends, keeping my family close, listening to the
lessons not getting caught up.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
In the Hollywood hype.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
Like I really am a massive fan of making movies,
but I really do not like Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
It is not for me that the business really scares me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
I understand that I'm a part of that business and
I enjoy my kind of interactions with it. But that said,
I am always looking for ways to kind of remove
myself from it, to kind of just live as normal
life as possible. Today, doing this is a very rare
thing for me to do. Like in London, to come
in and speak to someone about my life is something

(01:21:09):
I would not typically do. But because I'm a fan
of yours and I was keen to kind of hear
what you had to say and chat to you today,
I felt like this would be a safe space for
me to do that. But yeah, I definitely think it
has been an ongoing thought, which.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Is don't lose yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
I've seen so many people come before me and lose themselves,
and I've had friends that I've grown up with that
aren't friends of mine anymore because they've lost themselves to
this business. And I just am really really keen to
focus on what makes me happy, which is my family.
It's my friends, it's my carpentry, my golf, the charity
that my mum runs. Like that is the stuff that

(01:21:50):
makes me really happy, and that's the stuff that I
should protect. My relationship is the thing that I keep
most sacred. I don't talk about it. I try my
best to keep it as private as possible. We both
feel very strongly that that is the healthiest way for
us to move on as a couple, so I do
try to keep as removed from it as possible. Like
You'll never see me at an award show that I

(01:22:12):
don't have to be at. I'm never going to a
red carpet event that I'm not in the film of.
You know, I don't want the attention when I don't
need it. I love the spotlight. I love the pressure
that comes with it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Just watch that tennis documentary Breaking Point. You've got to
see it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
It's amazing. I never realized how brutal tennis was. I've
always been a huge tennis lover. I am now absolutely
in awe of what those athletes go through. But there's
a quote from Billy Jean King that's on the stand
at her Stadium in New York that says pressure is
a privilege, and that is so true, Like, oh my god,
feeling pressure on a daily basis in the capacity that

(01:22:50):
we feel is such a privilege. I love feeling pressure.
I feel like I thrive under pressure. The best golf
I've ever played in my life is when there are
cameras around and people are watching. I just think that
that is a real amazing thing to be able to experience.
So I enjoy it while I can, and then when
it becomes a bit much, I kind of become a
bit of a recluse and I disappear. I come back
to Kingston. I play golf, I play tennis, So I

(01:23:11):
hang out with my friends and my family, do the
pub quiz and all that sort of stuff. So yeah,
so it is something I actively try to do. As
I get older, it only gets easier.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, And I can. I can relate
to that where in my in my small way, or
in my world where a lot of my friends think
like I'm in La like always that events always a pies.
I'm not. I'm like in bed by nine thirty pm, right,
And I only live there because it works for me.
In the world that I do and what I do,
and I enjoy living in LA but it's it. I
don't live there for Hollywood, and I think that's often

(01:23:44):
the perception as well, where I was like, Oh, you're
all Hollywood now, and I'm like, well, no, not really,
Like I don't really I don't really go to all
the events and gatherings and stuff unless I need to
be there. I'm connected to a project, so so I
relate to that what you mentioned a few things there.
But if I had to ask you, as Tom, when
do you feel most to yourself? Like when do you
feel most connected or and what are you trying to

(01:24:05):
reconnect to if You're like, well, I know what it is,
but I'm still figuring it out. Again.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
I think when I feel most myself is to do
my relationships. I'm going to leave that and not all
about that absolutely. But I think the other thing, and
this is such a stupid thing, but it's when I'm
playing good golf, Like there's something about how golf is
the most humbling sport in the world. I agree, who
you are, it doesn't matter how much money you've got,
how successful you are, Golf will batter you no matter

(01:24:30):
who you are, And I love That's what I love
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
You know, it's such a leveling sport.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
I love going to a golf course and meeting new
people that I've never played with before.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
Playing around the golf, I struggle when.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
I don't play badly, Like I've got a bit of
a temper, and like you're supposed to have fourteen clubs
in your bag, I currently have nine and you could
probably guess why.

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
But I.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
Just love being outside. I've always been an outdoorsy person.
I love being on the golf course. I love my mates,
they all love playing golf. There's just something about the
challenge of shooting lower than your lowest score that really
kind of takes my mind off of the work. The
interesting thing about golf is that you could be having
a terrible day, you could be really upset about something,

(01:25:13):
and if you play really well, you completely forget about it.
If you play really badly, you then are playing badly
because of what's happening outside of golf.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
It's like a.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Really weird kind of catch twenty two, I guess, but
I love it. I think when I'm playing good golf
is when I feel most like myself.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
Wow, that's a unique answer, but I get it. Yeah, weird, Yeah,
I've only ever played golf like twice in my life, right,
and I totally get the point of how humbling it is.
Is horrendous. No matter how quickly you pick up other
things in life, golf is not one of those things
that you pick up that easily.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Wet.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
You can sign the biggest deal of your life and
go out to play golf to celebrate, and it will
ruin your day, like absolutely ruined.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
Don't go to play golf to celebrate.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
No, never go to celebrate. Crazy do you play? Do
you still play any sports?

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
I love playing football when I'm back here, Okay, so
that's one of the things my mates to know that
when I'm back in London. Okay, we're going to play
a game.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Where do you play?

Speaker 3 (01:26:09):
Well, we'll just we we were just playing like a
seven a side pitch, a five a side pitch, like
close to northwest London, which is where most of my
mates are, so like Stan Moore, Edgeware, Watford, that's like
where all my mates are, and so we'll just go
rent a pitch, kick a ball about. I'm not any
good anymore. Sure I still got the full kit and.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Yeah, I always.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
I've actually got Amar's kit like from here. Oh wow,
you best believe our show to five a side in
his full kit.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
I love it is him.

Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
We went on a lads holiday to Portugal recently to
play golf and at the resort we were staying at,
the people were so nice. I said, let's have an
England versus Portugal football match. There was like, I think
there's eight of us, and there was a bunch of
Brits that were working at the resort, so they kind
of joined our team and we literally did England versus Portugal.
It's a full sized pitch. We did sixty minutes, thirty

(01:27:02):
minutes each way.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
I'm fit.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
I train every day. I absolutely love my fitness. I
really really like im into it. By the end, I
could not make five paces without my legs cramping up.
They are so fit, these football players. It's unbelievable. And
we won, and it's so funny how the first ten
minutes of the game was really friendly, like soft fouls,
sorry mate, like your free kick, and by the end

(01:27:25):
it was savage.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
It was really intense.

Speaker 3 (01:27:27):
Well at least you won there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
We won.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
I got an assist. It was actually a glorious as well. Actually,
I just I pinged the ball over the top. My
brother made a run and it bounced and he managed
to get his foot to it and he chipped the keeper.

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
And scored it. There's no footage.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
There's no footage, which is yeah, no proof, no bruth.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
I sometimes think when the whole no proof thing, like,
we had the craziest experience of my life the other day.
I'll tell you about it because our lives are so crazy, like,
there's no why would I lie. But the other day
we went swimming with killer whales in Mexico.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
I said the other day.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
It was last year, and it was one of the
most humbling experiences of my life. There's no proof of it,
there's no evidence because it was so off the cuff.
We weren't planning on doing it. So most people I
tell are like, you definitely didn't do that, But we were.
We were in Mexico and we were on a boat
and we just so happened to see this pod of
orca jack.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
My security guard thought it would be a good idea
to jump in.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
He jumped straight in, flippers on, goggles on, and we
were driving to keep up with the whales because they
were kind of following our boat. So by the time
Jack had jumped in, he was like this, He was
like one hundred meters away and you could see him
and the whales were like swimming around him. So I'm
starting to freak out because he's a good friend of
mine and he's a security and he's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
My security on Jack.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
We got to get back to the hotel, so I
said to the guy, like, excuse me, sir, can you
turn around and go and get my friend because we
now can't see him anymore, like he's gone. We found him,
We got him back in the boat, and he sort
of said, like, lads, you have to get him there
is it's unlike anything you've ever seen before. My brother
Harry is like googling whether or not it's safe to
swim with them, and it's sort of the general consensus

(01:29:05):
online is don't go swimming with killer whales. You can
there's never been a recorded tack in the wild, but
they are wild animal.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
As big as a bus.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
And also Jack's giving it like, don't worry time, I'll
be there, I'll look after.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
I'm like, Jack, what are you gonna do?

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
Bro?

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
Like what this whale decides to eat me?

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
So anyway, we put the flippers on, put the goggles on.
We find the whales. They're sort of interacting with the
back of the boat. They're clearly curious, and I just thought, like,
I guess it goes back to what you're saying, the
mode of ignorance. I just was like, I'm gonna try
it and see what happens. I jumped in, My brother
jumped in, Jack jumped in. We kind of came together.

(01:29:45):
We're thirty miles out of the coast, so it's literally
like dark blue water, nothing below us, and to my relief,
the whales had gone. We couldn't see them. So I'm
sort of thinking, oh, well, that's actually a bit of
a touch. At least I can say. I in and
they have gone. But then Jack said, look down, and
we looked down, and it came from beneath us. And

(01:30:08):
what has been such an interesting experience for me was
as soon as I saw the whale, I wasn't scared
anymore because I could just tell that it wasn't going
to eat me. I don't know, I don't know how
to explain it, but you could just see from its
body language.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
I remember it so vividly. It swam up to us.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
It was maybe ten meters below us, and it was
kind of motionlessly sort of just looking at us, and
then it kind of rolled on its back. It did
this weird thing where it kind of put its head
like this and you could see its eye like we
were having this crazy like moment, and then it just
swam off and it was gone. And then for three
hours afterwards, I couldn't speak. I had the biggest adrenaline dump.

(01:30:47):
I just basically was asleep. But it was such an
amazing experience to sort of meet the apex predator of
the world and it kind of looked at you and
just swim away. Most people don't believe me because I
believe it. There's no evidence, but it was. I think
about it now and then you know, it's so funny
as well. I see these ice like our planet. There's

(01:31:09):
there's more footage of orcas hunting and another way in
which they hunt. There is no way I would do
that again.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
Yeah, there's no way I'd get in there again.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
But yeah, it was hearing you explain it is like
you're so present, Yeah, that you can tell that you
just you were so present in that moment that you
stop thinking about like, oh, well, you know if I
tell this afters and no one's gonna believe it or
whatever it is. You're just like, wait a minute. Yeah,
you know, nature makes you present like.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
That, and that's what I love about nature is it's
completely unbiased as well, like if that whale wanted to
have a snack, then you know it's not looking at
you going, oh no, but that's a famous person. I've
got to leave him alone. Or it just you are
at one with mother nature. We're in the middle of
the ocean. There's nothing we could do, and we just
were able to enjoy it somewhat, maybe like being in

(01:31:54):
the cave. Like you were saying, it was just about
us and this whale. My brother and I were holding hands.
But then as soon as it presented itself to us,
any stress just dissipated. And it was just this unbelievable
experience and it was so leveling. It was so humbling
that it makes me feel like I can take on
certain things. So honestly, even thinking about the experience down

(01:32:16):
my heart is racing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
Yeah, I can imagine it was.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
It was wild.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
Yeah, it was cool, unbelievable that that's an incredible experience,
and it is different from the cave though, because I
do think it's it's different when you're with another living
being sure, and so that's what I found. Like my
closest experience to what you're talking about is I went
trekking with or looking for mounting gorilla and Rwanda. Last time,

(01:32:39):
have you been.

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
On the top of my list? I would love to.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
Okay, yeah, we should do it. I would do that
again any day because it was unbelievable. So you're not again.
These gorillas are not like in a park or something.
They're mounting gorilla. They're in their world and you go
and look for them, and there's no tagging devices or
any tech. There's people who have watched the gorilla for
so many years that they know where their droppings are,

(01:33:03):
they know where families hang out, they know what their
routines are. So depending on what time you're going out,
there's someone who's just around them, who's calling their friends,
calling your guide saying walk, this is where you've got
to go exactly, just just to make it very very
clear that you know the gorilla is being treated very well.
So you're literally looking around and you could be on
the lookout for them for like two to six hours.

(01:33:24):
You may not find them. You're just hiking. So I
love that though you might not find it, you might
not find them. So we found them in two hours.
One group that we heard about because you go in
smaller groups of like ten. The other group that we
were friends with, they took eight hours to find gorillas,
but they saw them too. And when I went, I
was kind of like, oh, we're going to see one
gorilla whatever, like they're going to be far away. Like
I was a bit skeptical because I didn't know how

(01:33:45):
it was going to be. And it was incredible because
we looked around for two hours and I'll show you
the video afterwards, but we got and we just saw
them like hanging out kind of like how I'm looking
at everyone here, just hanging out still, and then all
of a sudden they all started walking together. There was
a family have twenty gorillas and you've got two silver
backs that are like, you know, they're like their fists

(01:34:05):
are like, you know, just hugeah exactly. And it was
really interesting because the guides who were there with us,
they said to us that when you go close to
them kind of like and this is why I remembered
it and why I'm telling you. It's because when you
were talking about the way the whale looked at you
and it was kind of like you knew it wasn't
going to eat you.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:22):
And so they were saying that when you get close
to these gorillas, the only thing you can't do. You
can't touch their kids, and you can't touch them, so
you can't drop something near their kids and then try
get it back because they'll think you're trying to harm
their kids. But what they recommended was they said you
had to make this sound when you see them, and
this sound means we come in peace, and so the
sound was so that's what you have to make that sound.

(01:34:45):
I was, all right, there's some Disney last I'm not
believing this stuff. Like whatever, I'm going to play around
with it. And so I'm walking around. So we go
to the gorilla and we get close to them, and
I made that sound because we were told they were like,
make that sound. And then the gorilla did it back
and it was just unbelievable. And then there was this
one moment where we were walking and we were literally

(01:35:06):
surrounded by gorilla. Now I was getting it, and that's
when I was like a bit scared because they were
all around us and like literally, if they ran at you,
like I'm done. Yeah, you know nothing, you can do nothing,
nothing you can do. And so we're walking, they're walking
around us, and this massive silver back came up. So
my business manager was with me as well, and so
he's there. He's like my godfather in la like he

(01:35:27):
really looks takes care of me, so very close to him.
And so this big, this big gorilla that walks behind
him and I'm looking at him, going, oh man, like
he stopped and we're all looking at him because he's
got this massive silver back behind him and we're all like,
how do we tell him to move? And the guys
like just be still, like just you know, be really present,
like you can't freak out, and the gorilla just went

(01:35:50):
wow behind him and they moved out the way and
just walked fast wow. And it was just it was
that same presence that you're feeling that I felt with them.
And that's what I mean. The living being with another
living being is is spectacular.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
So do you think that level of ease comes from
the helpless nature of being in the presence of an
animal that could do to you whatever they want to.
I think part of the reason why I felt so
calm when the whale had come up was because there
was nothing we could do.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
Should it go sideways?

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
And I think being almost finding that kind of inner
piece of like, I've made my mind, this is the
choices I've made. I'm here now, there's nothing I can do.
It's almost like you should make peace with your choices.
I guess, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
No, no, no, I think that's I think you've actually
taken it somewhere, really beautiful, mate. I think for me
as well, it's humility.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Yeah, that's why.

Speaker 3 (01:36:42):
And like when you when you meet someone new, rarely
are we humble. Sure, we often feel the pressure to
be like, well look at who I am, or like
you know, or we're trying to create, even if it's
not out of ego, there's a certain sense of like
wanting to gain people's like and respect, and people, no
matter what I do this way or Gorilla is not
going to like or respect me, So I better just

(01:37:04):
be humble about it and at piece, as you said,
and it levels you, and it levels you and it
allows that human being, that that being also of course
it's not you know, of course we're not recom there's
no we're not recommending that you just go into these
places I want. Yeah, yeah, but the idea being that
I do think there's something magical about nature where humility
is kind of nature's way, and it is that what

(01:37:25):
you're saying that when you're at peace with your choices
and you're at peace with here, we are here, I am,
I can't do anything and guess what, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
Right, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's somewhat sort of
like I've made a decision. If the decision is a mistake,
you've got to live with it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
You made it.

Speaker 3 (01:37:40):
Yes, I want to talk about sports because I was thinking,
I play a lot of tennis, play a lot of football,
play a lot of pickleball now because that's become a
but I'm massively more into paddle. I don't think I
love love paddle. So I want that to blow up
in the US, but it's not going to. So when
I went to Dubai and I went to Miami and

(01:38:00):
I went to Madrid because a big in Spain. Mate,
are they playing it here? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:38:05):
My local tennis club has got two courts, like you
can't book them they're so sold out, all right, honestly,
paddle tennis.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
I love tennis.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
Yeah, I think tennis is one of the best sports
in the world, and I think that, you know, they
are the highest performing athletes some of in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
But it's really hard tennis.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
Like I find unless I'm playing with someone who's much
better than me, I don't play well, Like I really
I need to be chasing someone. Yeah, paddle tennis is
so social. It's it's easy to have great rallies. You
still get the satisfaction of really smacking a ball because
pickle is it's all about placement and trying to kind

(01:38:44):
of one up your opponent. Where it's playing at the
kitchen and just exactly why is it called a kitchen?

Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
I have no idea. And that's so I played pickle
like paddle right because I'm like, no, no, like.

Speaker 2 (01:38:55):
Why I do like pickle, But paddle tennis amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
Next time, Yeah, pad was one of my favorite favorite.
I was in Dubai with a client for work for
months a couple of years back. I played it every
day for three months. It was just Yes, it's the
best workout, the most fun. Like time just flew is amazing.
But I was bringing it back to sports because I
was saying I was saying, you know you you personally
tried to recruit Mbappe for Tottenham. I did, yeah, And

(01:39:23):
I just thought that was amazing because I was like,
I've never seen this ever happen before, where you know
someone's using their clout in the right way.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
Listen, I saw him.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
I'm a mad tottenm fan and I just thought, now's
my chance. And he said no, the deal didn't go through.
No signing bonus for myself. That was a crazy trip
that going to the ball on Door. Yeah, we were
there for Spider Man Spider Arms coming out. I'm not
really sure how that was promo for Spider Man, but
like it was part of our trip for some reason.
But it was amazing meeting these players and I admire

(01:39:54):
them so much.

Speaker 3 (01:39:55):
It's incredible when you can notice other athletes and under
greatness and I see that at the top, which we've
talked a lot today about, and you're really good at this,
like you really, I feel like I feel like you're
quite tuned into like admiring and observing greatness and like
the one percent and trying to figure out what they're doing. Differently,
And I think that's one of the things I've definitely
seen of the one percent, is that there's a humility

(01:40:17):
and that they have the ability to appreciate other people's
greatness and skills and values and purpose, Like they're not
looking at it going I'm the best of all time. Sure,
there's a part of that. They may have to say
that for the cameras, or they may have to say
that before they go on the pitch, But actually, if
you talk to them and you ask them about someone else,
they'll be like, yeah, best player I've ever seen, Like
they're incredible. And so who did you admire growing up

(01:40:40):
in acting? Who do you admire today? Like? Who have
been the people that And maybe on a mindset level
or maybe on a or a performance level as well.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
There are definitely performances of people that I look up to.
There are the types of careers of certain actors that
I really admire. They're also like the types of lives
that certain people lead that I really admire and that
I really aspire to sort of be. Like I tend
to let all of my admiration go towards athletes. I'm

(01:41:08):
just so blown away by what they can do under
the pressure that they're under me As an actor, I
realize that my job is a high pressure job because
it reaches millions of people. But that said, there are
so many people that help me get to where I
need to be. I get picked up, someone makes me breakfast,
someone writes the words that I'm supposed to say. Someone

(01:41:31):
chooses my costume, someone does my hair and makeup, someone
sets the camera up. Ultimately, I walk onto set and
I do my bit. But I'm a small part in
a massive machine. But when you look at someone like
Djokovic or Federer, or this new Alcoraz you know, or
the golfers or Lewis. Lewis is slightly different. Because Formula

(01:41:52):
one is so much about the team in the car
and all that sort of stuff. They have to do
it themselves at a certain point, there's only so much
help they can get. But then when they walk onto
that court for the first time, when they walk into
the ring or into the octagon, it's them by themselves.
They're under that amount of pressure. It's up to them
whether they deliver or not. And I just have always
been admiring of seeing some of the greats lose their

(01:42:14):
wind streak and come back even stronger. I've always really
been an admirer of people that are able to do that.
I think it's a folly when you see these wind
streaks of fifty and oher and all that sort of stuff,
and you're like, well, that to me, isn't what a
champion is. A champion is someone who had it all,
lost it all, and got it right back again.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Tyson Fury's story is a crazy one.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
I'd love to see aj come back and be on
top again because I'd love to be alive to witness
that legacy that he would leave behind. You know, I
feel sorry for him what happened to him when he
sort of seemed to really lose it a little bit
in the ring when he took the microphone, and I'd
love to see him back on top and to have
some clarity and to be a champion again, because I

(01:42:55):
admire him as an athlete, So I save most of
my admiration for athletes and musicians.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
I love musicians.

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
I see someone like Ed sheeran eighty thousand people in
the palm of his hand. I think comedians are equally
as talented, the ability that they can just go on
stage and make people laugh. That is terrifying actors for
me because it's what I do.

Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
Yeah, It's like, you.

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
Know, yeah, I get. I get what he's saying. I
got it saying. And at the end of the day,
it's just it's it's taking what you can from from
what you aspire for, right, Like you can take something
from all these people, right. And what I love about
is some of these people you know. Some of these
people you don't. But I always say to people who
are listening and watching that you can be mentored by
people you've never met, You're right, And I think that's

(01:43:39):
a really important skill to gain because I think we
live in a world right now where somewhat access has
become easier, and we always think we need access to
people directly in order to learn from them. But you
don't know everyone you've just mentioned, even though you may
know a couple of them closely. And same with me,
Like I was really fortunate, you know, growing up as
a teenager. I got introduced to like Martin Luther King's
work and Malcolm X's work, and I was reading crazy

(01:44:01):
stuff at that age, but it had a massive impact
on my mindset. I never met all those people, and
obviously would never have got the opportunity to do that.
But I feel mentored by them without ever having sat
in the same room as them, because you study how
they made decisions, and you study what they said and
what they wrote. They stood for and they stood for
and how and the parts that you don't hear through history,

(01:44:23):
the parts that were actually more difficult, and the parts
where they weren't the perfect hero right, and so all
of that kind of stuff. But Tom, before we go
to the final five, you've been so gracious with your
time today, I have to ask you if you want
to clarify the Harry Kane situation, because I'll tell you why.
The reason why I say this is I had the dream.
So I'm a Manchester United support Everyone on my community
knows that very well. I have always had the dream

(01:44:45):
that Harry Kane, when Wayne Rooney retired, Harry Kane was
going to come to Manchester United and he was going
to follow in the footsteps of all the great England
forwards that have played Manchester United. That didn't happen. I'm
still holding onto the that dream. But you want him
to go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
Well, listen, listen. Let me just clarify right. I love
Harry Kane. I love humans on human Son is my
favorite foot player.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
He is a hero. I love Tottenham. I'm a big
Tottenham fan.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
But I just I know that those players could thrive
and have the best careers ever. Else I just want
to see I want to see Harry lifting a trophy,
and I want to see Son there by him, and
and and I just don't think you're.

Speaker 3 (01:45:28):
Rooting for the individual.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
Yeah, I'll always be a tottenm fan. You know, I
love being a Spurs fan. My brother Harry and I,
you know, we've really ponded over it, but I just
you know, Harry Kane is one of the best strikers
in the world, and he would fit into almost any team, and.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
I'd love to see him on top.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
An interesting question, do you think he would have had
a similar season to Harland had he gone to see.

Speaker 3 (01:45:53):
Ooh, that's a I personally think.

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
Because I think Harland's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:45:59):
I think Harland, with his age, his strength and his mentality.
You know what's crazy about Harland is I saw this
interview and you know, obviously it hurts me to say it,
but city and all, but when Harland did this interview,
he just scored like I can't remember which game.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
It was, He's unbelieving scored.

Speaker 3 (01:46:16):
He scored like five goals that game and he was like,
I should have had seven. And the interview was like,
come on, they take some credit, like he scored five goals,
and he was like, yeah, I'm happy with that. But
he goes, you know, there were a couple of assists
that should have gone in, and I thought that mentalityts
a whiner his mindset. I was like, he was he
knew exactly which opportunities he missed. And I was like, so,
I think it's an AIDS thing. Yeah, it's a strength thing.

(01:46:38):
I feel like Harland's kind of like I've always compared
Harland to like Ivan Drago, like he was made in
the lab. He was made like he was manufactured this
incredible talien. I think he's good with like he admitted,
like he scores a lot of tappings, and I think
that's his game. He's not a scorecard, you know, in
a good way. I'm saying that he's been built in
that way and city played that way. I don't know

(01:46:58):
if Kanes are tapping guy he's got. His goals have
generally been a bit more diverse in that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Magic. Yeah, magic is the way I would describe Kane.

Speaker 3 (01:47:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
No, I love him.

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
And obviously it's a typical thing of like the press
are out saying, oh, Tom Hollands begging Kane to leave.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
I'm not begging him to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
I love that he's at our club because I'd be
terrified to see where we'd be without him.

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
But I just love to see him have the career
I know he could have.

Speaker 3 (01:47:21):
What do you think, dude belling him to Madrid?

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
I think that's a great move. I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:47:26):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
And what's what's interesting is that all of my friends
in Spain are from Barcelona.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
I have one friend from Madrid.

Speaker 1 (01:47:32):
I've always been a big Bars supporter because I used
to go to Barcelona all the time as a kid.
I had a few weekends where I'd say to my
mom and dad, I'm going to my friend's house and
I would go to Barcelona.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
Sneaky wrote if.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
I don'd my Indian parents that, I was like, they
know the dial tone straight away.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
And mate, I got caught. My mum called me up
and was like, where are you.

Speaker 1 (01:47:53):
I was my friend's house. She said, no, you're not
because I'm here and I was in laramblasted Barcelona, but
I just I just love players. I think jud Benham's
amazing and you know, I just love to see what
he could do there. I think it's the thing for
me is I love legacy. I love seeing what players
can do. I'm less about the teams, so I love
about tennants or golf.

Speaker 2 (01:48:14):
You know, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
About the team, it's about the player. So I would
just love to see what he could do there. And
you know, I'm sure one day we'll see England raizor trophy.
And we've got such a great young team and.

Speaker 2 (01:48:27):
I admire them all.

Speaker 1 (01:48:27):
But yeah, I think it's a great move for him.
He's only nineteen or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:31):
That's insane. Ye it's nineteen and that's wild incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:48:33):
He's a year older than my brother Paddy. That's mental.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Mate. You've been amazing today, honestly, this is Yeah, this
has been some of the most fun I've had in
a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Yea too, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:48:44):
I appreciate it. I went, we ask everyone the final
five and so these are the fast five questions, okay,
which means answers have to be one word to one
sentence maximum okay, no more than that done? Okay, and
you don't have to write or spell them out, so no, no,
a long, none of that. All right? So Tom Holland
is your final five. Question one, what is the best

(01:49:05):
advice you've ever received.

Speaker 2 (01:49:06):
To turn your nerves into excitement?

Speaker 3 (01:49:09):
I like that that we've never had done this show.
I loved that, all right. Second question, what is the
worst advice you've ever received?

Speaker 1 (01:49:14):
Move to LA, get a marijuana license, and buy a
hot tub?

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
Who told you that Mark willwork?

Speaker 3 (01:49:22):
That's brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:49:22):
Now he told me that honor chat shows. I don't
know if that was legit advice, but I didn't take
his advice.

Speaker 3 (01:49:28):
Okay, good, Well who would you have been if you
took that advice?

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (01:49:31):
Who knows? All right? Question number three, what's the first
thing you do every morning? In the last thing you
do every night?

Speaker 2 (01:49:37):
Make my bed.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
It's the first thing I do and the last thing
I do before I go to bed. Admittedly is I
check my emails, which I shouldn't do, but.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
That is what I do. Yeah, it's bad.

Speaker 3 (01:49:47):
Yeah, we asked that just to make you aware of
what you need to change.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
I do need to change that making my bed is
a good start. I used to never do that, and
now like, my first thing I do is I make
my bed. That's my first challenge of the day. It
is a good it's an easy one to get done.

Speaker 3 (01:50:00):
Question for what's something you're trying to learn at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
I'm currently taking golf lessons and we see.

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
A trend is not going very well. Where are you
at at the moment?

Speaker 1 (01:50:11):
The thing is with golf is that the golf swing
is a very, very particular thing. So in order to
get better, you do have to take quite a few
steps backwards. I've taken maybe twenty five sets backwards, but
I will I will benefit from it eventually.

Speaker 3 (01:50:27):
He did every day, every day.

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
Every day, but I practice every day.

Speaker 3 (01:50:30):
I've always said that to my wife. I was like,
I want to go away for a month and I
want to get trade there. I'm going to play golf
every single day any way. Yeah, that's the only way
I had a really So one of my clients took
me to phg in Arizona, Yeah, which is like its
beautiful place, Bob Passon's place, and I had a coach
there for two days and I was like half decent
after two days because the coach was so good. Yeah,
And when I got back to LA, I tried to

(01:50:51):
get a coach and I couldn't find a good one.
And then I had a coach that literally he came
highly recommended, but it didn't work out for me. He
didn't let me take like zero point seven of a
swing before he gave me a feedback, and I was like,
I just need to hit a few, like I need
to kind of just and it was like every time
I was about to hit the boy, but I know,
I was like, I just need to kind of like
get a feel for it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
And so the guy I go to is a guy
called James Heath, and he does most of his teachings
off of feel. So it's not about numbers, it's not
about results, It's more about.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
How do you feel?

Speaker 1 (01:51:21):
He calls it the feels, So like I'm working on
twisting my hipsmore and my backswing and he will say
to me, how does that make you feel? Like physically,
where do you feel the stretch? Where do you feel
the pain? Where do you feel the pinch? Great, that's
what I need you to feel. And I coming from
a dancers background, that's a really great way for me
to learn because everything in dancing is about feel. So
if you need a great teacher in London, James Heath

(01:51:43):
is fine.

Speaker 3 (01:51:43):
Thank you, Shautow, James Heath, James. Fifth and final question,
If you could create one law that everyone else in
the world had to follow, what would it be.

Speaker 2 (01:51:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
I don't know what one law would solve the most
amount of problems.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
What would you say? Curious?

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
I'd probably go to something you said earlier. If I'm
giving a genuine answer, a real answer, is I really
wish there was a life school like that would be it?
Because I'm not saying that would solve all the problems
in the world, no, but it would set people up.
And when I say live school, I mean emotional mastery,
I mean one hundred percent ego master I mean the

(01:52:21):
ability to be kind and empathetic and vulnerable and compassionate
and create safe spaces. I think a life school that
taught you how to be non judgmental, sure, and non
critical of others without understanding them. I think, sure, that's
what I mean by life school. So not just the
like paying taxes and bills and stuff, but the life
school of like well, what if we didn't have to
live in a world where we just said everything we

(01:52:43):
wanted to and did everything we wanted to and got
away with it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:46):
And you know, but I think life, the life lesson
for me should be basic health and CPR and basic
first aid training. It should be, like you said, creating
an environment at school where young people feel more comfortable
talking about themselves, what they're going through, you know, things
that might be happening at home or things that are

(01:53:08):
happening at school. Like I think that that would be
an amazing way for us to be more expressive and
more comfortable expressing. And again, like I know, I keep
going back to it, but it's about what my show
is about, which is you should feel empowered when asking
for help. It should be something that you're proud of,
Like you're recognizing that you have an issue. It might

(01:53:28):
be an internal issue, it might be an external issue,
but you are seeking help, which I think is very admirable.

Speaker 3 (01:53:34):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, I do encourage and recommend everyone go
watch The Crowded Room. I personally loving it with my wife. Honestly,
like I I barely watch TV shows, if I'm completely honest,
and it's because I like something that makes me think
and reflect and you know, and entertain me at the
same time. Sure, And I think it does a brilliant

(01:53:54):
job of doing all three. Like it's gripping, I'm like
trying to figure out what's going on next nice at
the same time, like's it's amazing watching you being able
to be this very different character to what we know
you as. Sure, And that's really impressive. So even even
on a performance level, I'm like, I'm forgetting that you
are Spider Man nice right, Like, And that's that's how

(01:54:15):
I watch movies where I'm like, can I forget right
who this person is and or are they playing a
caricature of themselves? Obviously, And with you, I'm like, I
don't even think to think it's you right right, right
right now, I'm talking to you, and I've been watching
the show. I'm like, oh, it's not in the same person. Sure,
And that is really really impressive on a performance standpoint.
So thank you so much, best, I really appreciate it. Yeah,

(01:54:35):
thank you, Matte, thank you. If you love this episode,
you'll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to
be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose. Our children
have become less imaginative about how the problem solve imparents
and coaches have become more directive and trying to tell
them how to behaviorsus teaching them how to behave

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