May 9, 2023 • 55 mins
Broadway Loving, Street Wise and Sassy Game Playing Actor, Camryn Manheim joins Rosie for an electrifying conversation.Listen as the two friends run the gamut of showbiz, motherhood, flying 1st class, and surviving the pandemic together online.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Well, hey everybody, it's me Rosie O'Donnell. How are you?
Are you good? It's May already? How the hell is
it going so fast? I'm trying to tell it to
slow down. You know, I can't believe that in June
I will have been on this beach for one year
(00:31):
and then I'm going to leave the beach. And it's
so very difficult to do. I gotta tell you, I
just love this house. I just love the being on
the ocean. It's brought me so much joy. And not
only did we see that one whale about a week
and a half ago, we saw another whale three days ago.
(00:53):
And it's so wild. It looks like a prehistoric dinosaur
neck coming up, you know. And it's just it's mother's
mother humpbacks and baby humpbacks, and they swim close to
shore because the orcas kill them out in the deep ocean.
This is what I've been finding out in my new
love of Wales. But yeah, I'm gonna miss this house.
(01:15):
I really am. And you know, I got great friends
who live close by, so it's going to be you know,
it's going to be sad, But I am also so
grateful and I like when I make a plan and
I stick to it. You know. The plan was take
a year, get a chef, get healthy, enjoy the beach
and your child. And that's what I did. And Dakota,
(01:37):
you know, had some opinions and decisions. And you know,
Franny Dresher, my friend, says, why are you letting them
make a decision for you about if you're gonna stay
off the beach? You know, like, if you're not a mom,
you don't get it. You know. I've got this little kid.
She has autism, and she is very unique and particular,
and she's articulate about her feelings and wants you to
(02:01):
know where she's at at all times. And I said,
I don't understand why you would want to move away
from this house. And she said, well, Mommy, I'm afraid
of the tsunami and I would like to have a pool,
and I would like to have Oh my god, I'm
seeing another whale right now. I am seeing another whale
right now. Oh this is too funny. This is too funny.
(02:26):
Three whales in the last three and a half weeks.
Oh god, it keeps bobbing up its little prehistoric black
kind of head area. I don't even know, they almost
come like vertically up from the ground. This is too wild. Listen.
As I'm sitting here thinking how great my life is.
(02:48):
We have a great conversation coming up with my buddy
Cameron Mannheim, who you all know from all of the
many shows she's been on and right now she's on
Law and Order and kicking ass on NBC over there.
And you know what, I love her so much. I
love her so much, and it was such a great conversation.
All I want to say is sit back, relax. Here
(03:10):
we go, everybody. We got some questions at the end
of the podcast. But coming up Cameron Mannheim, I Cam,
I miss you being out here.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I miss it out there too, But I said I
was gonna wait to gloat until your earphones were back
on that It's really beautiful in New York.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right now today. Yeah, but Surreion Malibu, so it's cold,
you're by the ocean, and it is like so stormy
that I was sitting in my house feeling like there
were earthquakes likely that's how much it's rocking. I'm telling you,
the Earth is pissed off. You are not kidding, honey.
It is crazy the weather everywhere and you know, how
(04:01):
how long are we going to be able to just
pretend it's not happening? That's the question, right, It's tragic.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
As long as you know big corporations are paying off
the Republicans.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Oh my god, we're not going there. We could, we could,
but we won't. We won't. Now, are you enjoying your
time in New York? You've been there like a year almost? Right?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I know, I'm here eight months out of the year,
and I love New York. I love it up when
I'm here. You know, I'm at the theater, I'm at
the Knicks game, I'm at the Rangers game.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I saw Billy.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Joel at the garden, right. I love this town. It
is so electrifying. I mean, I love my home in
Los Angeles too, but I am truly by coastal right now.
And isn't that the dream? It really is? It's I'm
sort of that way too. I mean, I live here,
and Dakota's going to school here, but I have my
place still in New York, and I go home to
(04:52):
see the bigger kids. And there's something really wonderful about
being able to live like that.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I know. And now that my son has grown up,
and I feel like I don't have to be in
one place, you know, keeping a steady home for him,
because he's all over the world. I can, you know,
live my second life. This is like a whole new
chapter for me coming back to New York. I went
to college here, where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I went to NYU, I got my master's agree at NAU,
and I lived in this very same apartment that I'm
in right now talking to.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You'll see all the construction going on behind me because
now I'm a grown up and I can afford to
redo the kitchen and do a few nice things to it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So I'm I'm renovating it. Have you kept it for
all these years in New York? I kept it all
these years. I bought it in nineteen ninety one because
I'm very smart. You really are. You're good once money.
You know what you're doing, you know how to decorate.
You're like my go to person out here, you know, Rosie.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
When you're like a big girl like I am, and
you get a dream job like the practice, you think
this is probably the last job I'm ever getting, because
you just never believe you're going to get another one.
So I was really smart, and I saved my money
and I invested it and I did all the right
things because I thought, you know, i'll be teaching in
two years when this show's off the air. So I
(06:11):
just really tried to be smart about it. And then
you know, all I dreams came true and I got
to continually work.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So now I'm retibating my college apartment. Wow, that is something, Cam,
that really is. And I see you on Instagram going
out to a different Broadway show every night, and I
read something that you posted that you don't post about
a theater piece unless you loved it, because you don't
want to tear down theater. And I did the same
thing when I had my TV show. You know, when
(06:40):
I loved it, I was effusive. I couldn't stop talking
about it. And then they'd say, hey, could you come
and see the Scarlet Pimpernel. I was like, I saw it.
They're like, okay, would you talk about it. I'm like,
I can't, you know, because once, once you say that
you love something, you didn't all your credit.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Well that's the truth, you know, Rosie. I just want
to say you did for theater what Oprah did for books.
You really got people back into the theater. And I
was here in New York, you know, doing plays, and
everyone was so thrilled that you focus so much of
your show on the magic of Broadway and off Broadway
(07:23):
and off off Broadway.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
But it's true.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I write really positive things about the theater, and then
people start.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
To not believe me. They're like, well, now I don't
know what to see because you write something nice about everything.
And I finally posted and said, I really want to
set the record straight. I see dozens of plays that
I don't write about, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Write a bad review because something I don't like. Another person,
you know, thought was the second Coming of Christ, right,
So why would I try to stop someone from going
to the theater. I'm just not going to personally put
my stamp on it.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, I think that's vital, because you know, it is
just as hard to get a play that isn't wonderful
up on Broadway. The work that's put in by the
directors and the lighting design, all the people that work
on it and the actors that by the time it
gets up there, it's a major accomplishment period. And Youina Rosie,
you produced the show with boy George, right, correct, you
(08:20):
produce that, And I remember they did a documentary and
the critics they're just hateful. Yeah, you know, not just
to your show, but to a lot of shows the
like Wicked will never work, right, you know, what the
fuck do they know? Right? Right? And somebody said, I
think it was boy George, or it could have been you.
I'm sorry, I don't remember. You know. The only thing
I retain is water these days. But somebody said, you know, critics,
(08:45):
the people, the very people who are supposed to love
the theater just tear it down.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yes, And it really resonated with me when I saw
that documentary.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
And you know what it takes to put up a
play is what it takes is backbreaking year of solid
work and belief when no one else has it. And
you know, cam one of the most redemptive things that's
ever happened to me in my life. Stephen Sondheim did
a big interview before he died a couple of years
before he died, and he said that Taboo was the
(09:17):
most underrated musical he'd ever seen in his life. And
I was crying when I read. I'm crying, just tearing
you say it. Yeah, it really gave me like all
of the horror that I felt about its failure was
kind of erased by the being seen by him, you know,
you know, had he only been writing reviews, that could
(09:38):
have gone an entirely different way. Yes, you know, it's
just one person. And I always say that to my.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Friends who are being you know, critiqued by reviewers. It's
just one person, right, you know, and you can't you
can't give them so much power. But just because you're
talking about Sondheim, I don't know if you know this,
ROUSI but I was the reader when Sondheim was doing
Merrily We Roll Along at Arena Stage.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Are you kidding? I was the reader for a whole week.
They paid me six dollars an hour to come in
and read with Brunadette Peters, Victor Garber like.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It was a dream come true for me. And at
the end of the week this is the absolute truth.
Stephen Sondheim turned to the casting directors and said, well.
He first said to me, Cameron, can you sing? And
I said, yes, I can sing. And he turned to
the casting directors and he said, we should call Camera's
agent and get her in next week to audition for
this because I'd been reading every part all week, and
(10:33):
I guess he liked what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yes, And then I turned to him and I said,
you know, mister Sondheim, I don't have an agent, but
if you want to call me, I'll arrange a meeting
for me to come in next week. Right. And he
turned to the casting director, hand to the god. I
don't believe him. He said, can we get Cameron an
agent and then call that agent next week and get
(10:57):
her in here for an audition? And I would say
five days later, I had my first agent because of
Stephen Stodheim. That is unreal. Cameron. You have magical Hollywood stories.
When I got to know you and got to sit
with you playing poker during the pandemic, every night I
heard these tales and I couldn't believe it. The story
(11:19):
about the practice, about the game that you saw. What's
it called cribbage or something cribbage? Cribbage? Yeah, I don't
even know the name of it. Nevermind tell everyone that story.
This is how you got to be on the practice. Yeah.
I was, like, I said, I graduated from MYU in
the master's program, so I've been seven years of college.
I get out of school. I'm a heavy set girl.
(11:40):
Nobody knows what to do with me. Every agent I
meet says, he remind me of the Kathy Baits. You're
gonna work in about ten years when I grow into
your maturity, And I'm like, wait a minute, I mean
that is a huge honor. They should say that about
Kathy Bates, right, but she's a foot shorter, ten years older,
you know, Southern Next, what about us are the same
(12:01):
except that I'm a big girl, you know, That's all
they could peg me in. So I wasn't getting I
didn't have an agent out of school. I wasn't getting
a lot of jobs. So somebody said, you know, write
what you know, write what you're an expert at. So
I wrote a one woman show called wake Up. I'm
Fat about growing up in America, being fat, having parents
(12:22):
who were you know, it was really hard for them
because they wanted me to thrive and knew that this
town didn't know what to do with me. So I
wrote a one woman show and it happened to hit
a nerve, you know, because no one had been writing
about that, right. And I happened to have gone to
school with Marsha Gay Harden, who's a dear friend of mine. Now,
she introduced me to my son's father. I'm her children's
(12:45):
god parent. You know, we're like sisters, sisters, we're like sisters.
And she's like, who's coming to your opening night? I'm like,
I don't know, Marsha, just my friends. She goes, no,
you'll have to have people at your opening night. I'm like,
I don't have people. I don't even have it. What
are you talking about? She goes, I'm going to get
you some people. So and she did. She brought her manager,
(13:09):
she brought a casting director. He brought Jody Foster. Like,
there were people at my opening night. I feel really
felt like a star, you know. Right.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Anyway, after the show was over, the casting director says
to me, how come I don't know who you are?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
And I'm like, well, isn't that your problem? Like that's
your job. Haven't you heard? Haven't you heard? Anyway, he
asked me for a tape. I gave him the only
tape I had. He brought it back. He goes, my
boss is looking for a street wise and sassy, gum
smacking lawyer. And I'm like, I'm street wise. I'm I'm
(13:45):
gum smacking, and he brings my one tape back. I
had done one show in my life. It was on
Law and Order, which we'll come back to. I'm sure.
I played a lawyer who knew sign language and I
had a deaf client and because I know sign language,
another crazy story, they asked me to do this role.
So I give him this date. He brings it.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Back to his boss. His boss says, she's not for me.
It's not what I'm looking for. She's too she's too
buttoned up. I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And the casting director fought for me and he said
she's butting up because the wardrobe person put her in
that outfit. She's wearing pearls because of that. This girl
is street wise and sassy. You're gonna have to trust me.
And so his boss is like, okay, I'll meet her.
And so Marsha's manager says to me, Cameron, David Kelly
(14:32):
wants to meet you. You're gonna have to fly out
to New York. And I'm like, oh my god, I've
heard these stories. When they fly you out she shit
the chocolate chip cookies in first class exactly, and she's like, well,
it's not really like that he wasn't really planning to
meet you, but the casting director kind of forced his hand.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So if you want to find your way out to
La and need him, he's happy to meet you. I'm like,
that doesn't sound like he's happy to meet me right
at all?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Like that doesn't sound inviting at all. I'm gonna pay
four one hundred dollars we have trip, you know, to
go visit this guy who hates me already. And she's like,
if I were you, I would do it. You don't
get these opportunities. So I'm like, all right, I flew out.
I get in the room with this guy, David Kelly.
I don't know anything about him. I heard he wrote
(15:16):
like on La Law in Chicago Hall, but that's it.
There was no Go, no Google, there's no Google, and
so I, uh, I'm in the room and it was
the probably worst four minutes of my life. I could
see the four hundred dollars going down the drain, and
he was he was He's very dry, but I it
was scary. He was like, so, uh, you're an actor
(15:38):
and I'm like, yeah, that's why I just met my
wife's evings that flew across the contint to meet, and
he wasn't helping because he didn't want.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Me to win, you know, he didn't want me to
He wasn't into me. So it was over four minutes.
I was walking out the door and I noticed next
to his couch he had a cribbage board. And I'm
a big game player, as you know, right, I do
know code names, whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I love a game, and cribbage is a game that
I have known and loved my whole life. So I
just kind of stop. I thought to myself, this guy
is married to Michelle Pfeiffer. When does he play cribbage?
So I just said, uh, do you play cribbage? David Kelly?
And he looked at me. It was the first time
(16:22):
he showed any like signs of life, and he looked
at me. He said, yeah, I do, But I don't
think you want to go there with me. And he said, really, David,
because I feel like I could have this conversation with
you and try to impress you like I'm obviously doing
unsuccessfully now, and I could beat the shit out of
you at cribbage at the same time. And he said, no,
(16:43):
I don't think you understand. I play the computer and
I said, eh, I don't think you understand I play
for money, so why don't we just screw this audition
right now and I'll play you for the part. And
it was crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Because now he's like up on his seat and he's
forward facing and he'said, ah, I just want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I mean, I don't want to freak you out or anything,
but I skunk to my mother last week and I said, wow, David,
you know what what I'm sensing. I sense your fear,
So what's the problem. Let's play for the part. If
I lose, you'll never see me again. And if I win,
I walk out with the script and he's like ah.
He was like heaming and haueing. It was so beautiful
to see him off balance. Yes, And he's like, look,
(17:23):
I can't play you for the part because I haven't
written the script yet, but I'll make you this deal.
If you leave my office right this minute, you'll be
the first one to get it when it's finished. Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And I was like, you got a deal, buddy, And
I walked out and the casting director followed me.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
He goes, what just happened? And I go, uh, your boss, nikes,
he can beat me in cribbage and he's wrong, right anyway,
the beauty of that story is I mean, it's if
you really want to know the whole thing, you gotta
And I wasn't even planning to. I don't even know
if you can get my book. I don't even know
if it's some plopless daywork, right, but the whole story
is there. It's really quite beautiful what happened over the years.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I did get the script when it was written, and
it felt like the description had changed for me, if
you know. Instead it was like this big ballsy woman
walks in and takes over the room, and like three
weeks later I had this role wow, and cut to
I turned sixty last year, and my son and my
mother for my birthday, organized something really groovy. I went
(18:23):
to my office, I turned on my computer and David
came up on my zoom screen.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And said, I want to challenge you to a rematch.
And on my sixtieth birthday, David Kelly and I replayed
Cribbage and who won that one? The last time. I'm
going to seal the verdict because I'm a lady more
with Cameron Manheim. After this, you are, I have to say,
(19:04):
Camm one of the best game players you and that
kathen A jimmy friend of ours. She is a pretty
damn try she does. She's not enthusiastic, but she's a
great player. It's like she's kissed by the game. God,
I don't understand. She doesn't even care and she wins.
It makes me so mad. Yeah, yeah, she's good. She
beat me on Pyramid a couple times. She's so good
(19:27):
at it. She's really amazing. Now do you remember the
first time you did fly first class? Because when you
said that about the cookies, it reminded me of the
first time I did. And uh, it was so trippy.
Do you remember what yours was? Well? It was. It
was very interesting because I was auditioning for a Disney show,
(19:48):
Pictionary for Kids, and I was going to be the host.
And I get on the flight coming back and I'm
in first class and who do I see? First? Peter
Frampton is so in first class and I'm like, I
will my god, that's Peter Frampton. Like I couldn't even
you know, I'm like twenty one years old at this point,
maybe you know. And so then in walks Christopher Reeve
(20:14):
stop it, and he's in the first row of first class,
but on the other side of where I'm sitting, and
I'm like, Christopher Reeve and Peter Frampton are on my flight,
and I had never ever seen a celebrity like that
up close. So then get this. Someone is escorted to
the scene in my row but across the aisle from me,
(20:36):
so I could have reached out my arm and tapped
her shoulder. All flight, Meryl Streep, stop it, Meryl Streep,
Why did you so thrown? You pose yourself? Now? I
was so thrown that I did whatever she did. The
flight attendant came by and said, do you want champagne?
She said no, I said no. They asked her what
(20:57):
she wanted. She had the veggie platter, which, trust me,
I've never ever had a veggie platter. I ordered the
veggie platter. I did whatever she did, and then the
script that I had, which was for a game show.
But the script I was looking thinking that she was
going to like look over and go, do you need
help reading with that? Sweetheart? But she didn't say anything.
And I've since told her the story and it's it's
pretty funny. But I remember being on that flight, and
(21:20):
I remember feeling so upset that I didn't get the
ice cream Sunday because Meryl Streep didn't. Oh my god, Rosie,
my heart is so full listening to those. I have
two things to say about that.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
When I am on a first class flight now and
big stars come on, I think to myself, Man, if
this plane goes down, I'm not going to make the
headline exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think we all do that, honey.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And by the way, I just saw, I don't mean
to drop this name. Hold on, well, I'm gonna bend
over and pick it up. Ahead, get it go, get
I just saw Meryl Streep. We did a reading here
in New York for a wonderful, celebrated playwright called John
Guer and I reminded her of a story between her
and I that happened many years Guys had a big
(22:01):
Hollywood party and.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I had occasion to speak to MARYL. Street, who had
never spoken to and we're talking. I don't I just
it was amazing, And all of a sudden, her lips
are moving, and I say to her, Meryl, I can't
concentrate on anything you're saying because Mick Jagger is standing
right behind you. She's like to my left or to
my right, and all of a sudden we were just
(22:24):
the same person and ride with Mick Jagger and this
is such a sweet moment. I reminded her of that
a couple of weeks ago, and that was fun for me.
I will say, this is a fun story. I'm free
to flying and I didn't know that I don't like
to fly. Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And I had to finally go to a hypnotherapist because
I was turning down jobs like whoopee, always was turning
down stuff, you know, I didn't like to fly. So
I went to a hypnotist and I had like five
sessions and then I accepted.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
This job in Vancouver. And so I'm on the flight.
I'm sitting next to a gentleman who looks, you know,
like a nice diuye and good looking, and I'm feeling
pretty good and I'm like, man, that hypnotherapy worked. And
I'm sitting next to the sky going I just feel
comfortable next to him somehow. And then we fly. We
(23:12):
land in Vancouver and everyone that's when all the celebrities
talk to each other. They don't talk to each other
within the flight, but when everyone's getting up, they're like, hey,
and I saw that, and I really loved your works.
And somebody said to my seat mate, oh, Richard, you're
doing such great work on mcgiver, and I'm like, oh
my god. That's why I was still comfortable. I was
sitting next to mcguy, for he could have landed the
(23:34):
plane for me exactly with a paper clip and a
rubber band. He could have landed it safely. So that
was my best flight.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And I just want to call up you know him, Richard,
and just say could we just fly together all the time?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
But I'm much better at it now. Did it really help?
The hypnotism? I think it really did help.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I think that you know, when you have a
kid and you're a single mom, it's like, if I
something happens to me, who's going to love my kid
as much as I love him?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Totally? Can't I mean totally get what you mean and
like to fly for that reason.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
But no, now he's his own person and he can
you know, navigate life.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Now, your son I adore, as do all of your
friends who know him. He is the kindest, most affable,
most genuinely big hearted man child, and he's so talented
as an actor. Thank you, Rosie. I mean did you, Cam,
did you think that you were raising an actor? Did
this ever enter your mind? Like, was was he a
(24:29):
little boy who was into this or did it come
when he was a teenager. No, he fell in love
with community theater when he was about seven or eight.
I mean, he's done thirty musicals in his little life.
Did I think he'd go on to become, you know,
a well known actor at the age of fifteen. No,
I thought he would love acting, love musicals, love dancing,
(24:54):
go on to college, decide if he wanted to direct
or write or whatever I've told you going to be
in this world. He seemed to kind of move in
and out of it very fluidly. And he loved all
my friends.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
He loves adults, and you know, I have game nights
all the time, and.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And he just I don't know, he seemed to love it.
But he was discovered in high school in a musical
and a casting director came to see a musical that
his high school was doing and she was like, who's
that kid, And she like, that's Milo Manheim's any relation
to Cameron? And she kept him on file for about
a year, and then a year later she hunted him
(25:33):
down through my agent and said I'd like to see
the Smilo Manheim for a show, and then it's just
was born. It was kind of a runaway train. There
was no stopping it, you know. Once he was playing
Billy Flynn in Chicago and Roger and Rent and you know,
Tevia and Fiddler, every role that train. Yes, and he's
(25:57):
so handsome too. He's such a good looking, tall, gorgeous
young man and a harticle. You know, we were talking
one night and you were there, of course, and a
bunch of our friends. I think it was at Robin's,
I don't remember, but he said to me how he
used to fall asleep listening to you and all your
friends play games, and how it comforted him and made
(26:19):
him it made it easier for him to fall asleep.
What a beautiful kind of testament to his childhood and
how you raised him, and how he was included in
everything and a part of everything. You know, he wasn't
sent to his room while your friends were there. He
was part of the whole thing, you know. Yeah, thank you, Rosie.
He loves games, he loves poker.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
He will you know, he comes on our code names
and he doesn't mind that, you know, none of us.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Are his age. He loves the whole strat you know,
he's an escape room master. Wow, he travels the world
to do escape room. He's on his way to Greece
to do a twenty four hour escape room. When you
sleep there, when I can tell, it's crazy. So that's
the mathematical side of my family handed down to him.
(27:06):
That he loves strategy and figuring out puzzles and clues.
And then my competitive side that you know, I'm not
competitive where I'm mean, I'm just competitive for you know,
the honor of it. You know, of course I don't
care for playing for a nickel ride for five hundred dollars.
I'm playing for pride and which is and for fun.
(27:26):
You have so much fun doing it. But you come
from a family of braining acts, don't you.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, my family are. They're kind of like intellectual Jews.
My father was a professor of mathematics, my mother was
a teacher. My brother went to Harvard Law school. You know,
my sister is brilliant. Her sons or doctors and you know, biologists.
It's insane, how you know, from the top down kind
(27:52):
of education and college was really important. So Milo being
the only person in the lineage right now who hasn't
you know, filled out a four year college degree.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Was hard on my ninety seven year old mother. I'm
sure it was. I'm sure it was. She was like,
are you sure he's not going to go back. I'm like,
you know, like, mom, he's doing okay. Yeah, he's starring
in college. Every Disney show there is, He's the star
of it. I hell, I know. And it's like types
of change, Rosie. You don't have to go to college
(28:25):
to do well anymore. It's so true.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It used to be this staple you had to achieve
in order to get somewhere else. But now the world
has really opened their minds about how brilliant young people are.
And you know, there are things you miss by not
going to college, you know, socialization, how to make dinners and.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Clean up at the hard way. When Google hires you
at eighteen, yes, yes, for sure. Now you told your
friends that you were going to have a baby by
yourself if you weren't with anyone by the time you
hit forty, and then you hit forty and said it's
a now or never? Is that kind of how it happened? Well,
(29:04):
because you know, I'm a planner. I'm like, I'm thirty eight,
and there's no way I'm going to fall in love
with someone and agree to have a baby with them
by the time I'm forty. So I'm gonna start working
on that right now. Wow, good fan. You know. I
thought about it really long and hard, and I decided
to instead of trying to enter into a relationship that
(29:25):
I didn't know if I wanted to navigate with that
person for the lifetime of a child, I decided to
ask a friend. So I at first focused on like
my Jewish intellectual friends, and I thought, maybe that's what
I should do because that's so much like my family.
And then I'm like, we got enough of that in
my family. Let me go and ask an elegant, model, musical,
(29:52):
you know, artistic person. So I asked it old dear
friend who Marsha get hard and introduce me to circling back.
She's always a mind. I know she's she plays heavily
in my life magic force.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And we had a really long talk about it, and
that's you know, I've always been an independent woman.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I believe that there's all kinds of different families.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
You do too, and I know that all that matters
is love, and so I decided to go that route.
And I didn't tell the story early on because I
thought it was really Milo's story to tell and he
could tell it how he saw fit. But he is
now very proud and about his father and how he
(30:37):
was raised, So now I feel like I could talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
But Milo got the best of both of us.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You know, he got his father's beautiful physique, he's got
my perfect nose, he's got you know, and both of
us are very affable and friendly, and so he really
he did.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
He did good. Milah got Milo got some good genes.
And was there any complications with them raising him with
the father? There was none like, oh I want him
on this now, I want custod Nothing of like that.
Absolutely zero. We had an incredible understanding. You know, we
had legal documents too that were never called upon. You know, you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Always say, hey, we're going to do this, you know, mutually,
what's good for both of us. But then you know,
you he probably worried and thought, well, what if it's
not mutual, And so we did. We had, you know,
legal documents drawn up to protect him, which I completely understood,
and that is fair. But we never had to resort
to that because we travel together. We've been to Europe
(31:36):
and Canada. We've been, we've ski we do tons of
things together while Milo was growing up. And actually Milo
and his dad just went to Hawaii for a week.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So it's been it's been wonderful, and I've tried to
guide other friends down this path, you know as well,
because there's nothing wrong with getting sperm donors up of
a buff firm.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Me I just think I wanted to know the full history,
you know, And that went to littleness since that was
for me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
All Kelly and I did the same thing. One of
her friends was the donor, and I could not do
the anonymous either because I thought, like every time I'd
walk down the street and look at someone, I go,
is that it is that the you know? I wanted
to know, and I thought it would be important for
the baby to know, you know, when when looking for
their identity or their birth parents. And Vivi has UH
(32:33):
when she turned eighteen, so for two years she's been
in contact with him and he has a wonderful wife
and a son, and they came over to the house
here and and it was just a beautiful thing, you know,
I haven't seen this guy in twenty years and he
walks in still gorgeous, and you know, I was like,
I don't know how to thank you for the greatest
thing that I've ever been gifted, you know, thank you.
(32:55):
And he's so proud of her, and they have a
beautiful thing. You know, they're building a relationship now. That's wonderful. Yeah,
I never eat Father's Day. I think Milo was. I
came to it with love and the right perspective, you know,
and I think he knew that. So we never had
any conflict. I didn't try to steal him.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
For time, and he didn't try to steal him for time,
and it was really it was perfect. And Milo is
you know, a great representative of that because he knows that,
you know, it was all positive and good.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, the intent was right from the get go. The
intent matters, you know, and everything.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You so by the way, you know, you said to me,
I wanted to have a baby by the time I
was forty. Milo was actually due eleven days after I
was born, but I induced him and I had him
two days before I turned forty.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
So I had that guy. I did a kid before
I turned forty. Yes, you did, honey, Yes do, but
I induced.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
It because he was nine point six pounds. Oh my gosh,
Oh he baked and ready to come out. Yeah, he
was done, and boy did he grow up good. He's
a fine looking young and I really love him, Cammy, He's.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
A Grammy's a lot to me, Rosie. Now, I also
am a little jealous of you having a vibrant participatory,
a live, eccentric mother who is ninety seven years old.
I like, I can't fathom it, you know, I look
at it and I go, she's a grown up with
kids who are grown up, and she has the mother
(34:23):
still living. I mean, what do you think about that?
Does it go through your head? Like? How did how
did we get this? It is a gift from the
universe to have my fully capable and remarkable mother at
ninety seven years old. My mother goes to Senior University
four days a week. She goes and takes classes on
(34:48):
you know, existentialism, current events, Shakespeare.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It is crazy. She is truly a remarkable woman. She
marched with Martin Luther King, she fought for women's right
to choose. She has been a steadfast, you know, fighter
of freedom, and she is really the incredible matriarch of
our family. She is great grandkids, She's something else. It
(35:14):
is not lost on me. I call her every day, Yeah,
every day. I sometimes hear the same stories. That's okay,
but that's by you.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I'll take you. Yeah. And how do you think she
stays so? I mean she's obviously curious. She keeps her
intellectual uh you know, stimulation on high. I mean, how
do you explain to be that healthy at that age
and still going strong jeans? You think it's just jeans
or I think some of it is jeans, And I
(35:45):
think she has led. She's trim. She has never taken medication.
I'm like, mom, just take a mo trin. She's like,
I don't need it. She is. She's just one of that.
But women never complains and never shows her pain. And
she's so stalwart. You know, she's so stolid. But I
(36:08):
don't know's. She's got stuff to do, and we keep
giving her things to look forward to. You know, there's
a wedding next year, there's an opening, there's babies being porn.
We just keep giving her and she focuses all her
attention on those great upcoming events. So she makes new friends.
It's just she loves people, so she's out and about.
(36:30):
She takes watch My mother is legally blind and walks
a couple of miles a day with her cane by herself.
I don't need a babysitter. Oh, that's what she says.
That it's wild.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
We never know what to expect when a phone call
comes about your mother wandered into our house and had
some of our coffee cake.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Like that would be my mother, right right, But if
you sit next to her on a plane, Rosie, it
would go like this, do you watch TV? My daughter's
on television? And then before you know it, that's the
whole conversation, right, yes, well, how proud she must be,
come on, especially when she worried whether you would work
because you were heavy. You know, yeah, she did not
(37:11):
think I would more with Cameron Mannheim after this, you
(37:34):
and I have talked about this about, you know, struggling
with our weight and that sometimes wardrobe people can be
really cruel, like, you know, they can say, well, I
don't have anything in your size. Can you bring your
own clothes? That happens to me all the time. And
still yeah, and you've lost and you you've lost some weight,
you know, I keep trying, you know. I just had
(37:56):
knee surgery and it's been it was really hard on me,
and I'm like, I have to participate in not being
in so much pain, you know, And my mother is
such a good role model about that. So I've worked
really hard at it, most recently, just to get out
of pain. Pain is really has been the roughest part
about being in New York. New York will kill you. Yeah,
(38:17):
you gotta moved so much of you totally. Yeah. You
get in a cab and you sit so people walk
thirty blocks forty blocks to their destination without a blink.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I ride a city bike almost every day, and I
think that has a lot to do with it. I'm
on those bikes constantly. A. I don't want to pay
for ubers. They're so ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And even though I can afford it, it's the point, right,
And so yeah I will. I will get on a
city bike and ride up to you know, I look
in the East Village. I'll ride up to the Central Park, right,
just so I don't have to pay thirty five dollars
for exactly I get you, honey, I totally get you.
Now you're in New York because of Law and Order
(38:58):
and that was your first job and now you got
it again. It's a dream come true, that's for sure.
How did that come about? Was it just like we
want her back, get her back? How did that go down?
I don't I don't know what the back room talks were,
you know it. I was just minded my own business.
I had no idea this show was even being brought back, right,
(39:21):
it had been you know, Lawn Order was on the
air for twenty years and then it went off the
air for ten years. And from that original Lawn Order
also spun new lawn Orders Lawn Order SBU, Law and
Order Organized Crime, which we're on now. It's very confusing
to people who aren't Law and Order fans, right, but
if you're a Lawn Order fan, you know exactly what
I'm talking about. So I just thought the original mothership
(39:43):
was over. Yeah, and then I got a call. That's
the beauty of it, Rosie. I know, you never know
what's gonna happen. They called and they wanted you imagine that, right,
I didn't have to be like I heard their rebooting
Lawn Order. Can you see if I can get in?
What were they casting like? I have to do that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I get a call and I really think it was
Dick Wolf. He was like, we need a formidable.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Female lieutenant who wal't take crap from the two detectives,
you know, at the time it was Anthony Anderson and
Jeffrey Donovan. And I need someone who can stand up,
you know, stand up and boss those those dudes around.
And I'm like, I'm street wise and sassy as the
boss dudes around. Still street wise and sassy from the beginning, right,
(40:30):
And so I got the offer, and it was a
hard It was hard at the time to make a
decision to move across the country, you know, you just
moved the other way exactly. I would really loved it
if you were still here. And I hadn't lived in
this apartment for twenty five years, right, I was renting
it for twenty five years. And I'm like, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Back, like I'm like a college student, back to my apartment,
back to you know, working in New York.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
And it took me.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
It took me a second to like really understand that
this is a whole other chapter for me. I get
to go back and fall in love with New York
and revisit all of those friendships that.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
You know when you're across the country, you don't get
some harter, yes, see as much harter right. And I
got here.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I did a remodel on my apartment, and I started
having game nights right away. In fact, I made Kathen
to Jimmy have two game nights for me because my
apartment was being remodeled.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I'm like, I have to have a game night.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I invited my friends, I got food, like you have
to host it. And now I had a Super Bowl party.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I've already had two game nights in the past ten days,
like I can't.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
That is my happiest place on the planet right and
in my retirement, I would like to have a bed
and breakfast and we do games at night after you
go out for your day trifts and you come back
and we have some good food and a good game.
One night we'll be code names. One night we'll be poker.
Another one will be running Charie that Catan and you
(42:01):
can't forget Catan.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Oh, you know how much I love Yes. I just
learned it a few a few months ago. Parker was
When Parker was here, he taught me how to play
it and you know you get free onlon. We could
play online just you and me. All right, honey, I'm
in all You taught me code names. You could help
me with this one too. So do you think you're
gonna stay there as long as the job goes or
you're gonna try to come back when it? You know,
(42:23):
I know you're here when when you're on hiatus, right,
it's the in between you come back here. But as
you know, I don't love to fly. So you know
some people I have friends who have three days off
and go go home, you know, to see their family.
I need a good like ten days if I'm gonna
(42:44):
commit to flying across the country. I came home for.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Christmas for a month, and I'll come home for hiatus.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
But no, I'm in it for the long haul. This
is an incredible job.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I was at an opening of a play a few
weeks ago and this woman at.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Me and she was serious, to what you have my job?
I want that job.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I hope she was in a tradition for it, right,
She's an actress and she wanted that goddamn job.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
It is. It is like the mother load for a
woman my age. I don't work that much, but I'm
on a show that is loved and I'm in a
city that I adore, So I will be on it
as long as network television exists, which I don't know
how long that yeah, nobody knows. It could be over
in a year, but it's a You're great on it.
(43:34):
You're great in everything you do. I remember when I
saw you in The Full then the Deaf Spring Awakening, Yes,
and you were across the stage walking in that outfit,
and you have such presence. Cam. I was like in
the audience watching going look at how she can command.
You were like, you know, deep in the in the set,
(43:57):
on the set, away from where the audience was, and
you slowly walked across the whole stage, and I remember
being transfixed. You're such an amazing actress really and everything
you do. And I first fell in love with you
with that David Kelly show Private Practice, and everyone else
in America did too, and I think you've been like
(44:17):
a staple in our life and world since then. You know, hey,
you It's it's been really amazing moving here and getting
to know you so well. It's been a gift.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
That has been one of my favorite things. You know,
if there's any silver lining to COVID, and there aren't many.
You know, I can say the same about you, and
we don't have to have like this full on, you know,
love fest. But Rosie, of course, I was so deeply
in love with you on so many levels. When you
did your show, what you did for theater, the kind
of questions you asked, they weren't frivolous.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You let me ride by motorcycle onto your stage. Come on,
we're so that I did a mammogram with a deaf
woman on one of your shows. Right, you were so
influential in my generation and to others, and then you know,
this horrible thing happens to the world.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
And you and I have talked and seen each other, yeah,
and there and Allie's enjoyed each other's company when we
were around each other, and all of a sudden we
come together night after night, not just one night for games,
but another night for games, and then another night for
our private little hooking around a community that we had.
(45:29):
And you talked about your kids, and I talked about mine,
at our mothers, at our lives and our weight and
our loves and our you know, misfortunes, and it was
I don't know there was.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
That was such a special time. And what's even more
special is now that COVID has found a way to
interact in the world, our friendship is still so solid.
I came to visit you in your beautiful home and
your daughter, and we just it is the silver lining
of a horrible time in our history. I agree. It
was the friendships that I made. And you know, it's
(46:03):
funny moving out here. You guys were like, come on,
I was so depressed in New York, in my house
in New Jersey, unable to move it. You were like,
you could do it. I'm like, but it's COVID. You're like, no,
you could do it. Come on. And uh when I
finally did it, I was like, thank god, I did it.
I think it was just in time, because boy, that
was a depressing time for so many millions of us,
(46:25):
right if you struggle with depression to begin with, and
then to be in the middle of that. I was
like in New York when I think about what New
Yorkers went through, like the streets. Yes, I look at
those photographs, but but sometimes you just need a little
sun shine. Rosie honey, And it's helped me so much.
(46:45):
It's helped me so much. I have a trouble here
in New York with the darkness, and I'm thinking about
getting one of those lights that make it look like
the sun is rising with you. Yes, I've had. I've
used those. They're very helpful because they're you know, from
like November through March through spring. That was the toughest
time for me there, and I remember feeling it as
(47:07):
a child. I remember the gray descending and me thinking,
oh no, I have to go back in the cave.
You know, it's it's such a struggle, but I find
it here. For my depression, it's exponentially increased. You know.
I'm so happy, and it's thanks to you and all
my pals from out here who made it such an
easy transition and helped me so much that you know,
(47:29):
it's been just serendipity for me. So thank you. Cameron Manheim.
Oh my god, I'm so happy. You're at the beach
with the sunshine and your daughter is thriving and thriving.
You should say her man listen, thank you for doing this,
but thank you so much. Okay, honey, I'm going to
go get my kid after school, and I love you
(47:49):
and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much.
It was great. Thank you so much. She is delicious,
Cameron Manheim. Did I tell you she really is? Stay tuned, everybody.
We got some questions coming up, and thank you Cameron Manh.
(48:24):
Hey we're back. Thanks for sticking around commercials. They can
be long and annoying. I understand, but hey, there's a
business and show business people. Okay, making myself laugh. Sorry,
we've got some questions from you. Here's the first question.
I haven't read these or I don't know what they're about,
so hit it.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
Hey, Rosie, it's Adam and Boston. I'm so glad you
have this podcast. I missed hearing you often, so it's great.
I just was calling in to tell you that well,
first of all, that I love you, and the second
of all, just that I hope you don't have regrets
(49:06):
about producing Taboo the Musical, because my mom took me
to see that show in New York because it was
a real bonding moment for us being a young queer person.
I wanted to ask if you, I guess, had any
regrets about it and if you would ever produce another
(49:29):
musical again on Broadway. And my second just thought for
you is. I just want you to know that I
didn't know who Lee Bowery was at the time when
I saw the show, and I just was opened up
to this world. And it's one of the reasons that
I went to art school and became a designer. So
(49:50):
thank you so much for that, And onward with my
question and podcast row love you.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
How sweet, Hi, honey. I'm so glad that you went
to see Taboo and that you saw it with your mom,
and I understand the profound effect it had on you
because it had an effect on me like that too.
You know. I saw that show Taboo over in London
and boy George was in it, playing Lee Bowery, and
it was in a small kind of off Broadway theater
(50:18):
over there in the West End. And I went up
to the usher and I said, does boy George come
often to the show? And they said he was on stage.
I didn't even know it was him, and he came
over and we introduced ourselves, and I was like, how
can I make this into a Broadway show? You know?
(50:40):
And I thought it would be simple, and I thought
it would be easy, and it was none of the above.
But it was so much fun and it was so
helpful to me as an artist too, to learn all
about Lee Bowery and his life and his art, and
it woke me up in a lot of ways to
a kind of a person who lives their art daily.
(51:04):
And it used to be I think when I was younger,
that I would be a little afraid of people who
were kind of way out of the norm. And Lee
Bowery kind of taught me, not himself obviously, through the show,
taught me how to accept everyone and see the art
in their daily living. It's quite a thing to master
(51:25):
to be able to use yourself as a canvas and
be out in the world fully presenting your art and
yourself as one. But Adam, your note is very sweet,
and I have no regrets about doing it, because there's
nothing better in showbiz than Broadway. There you go, Thank you,
Adam very much. You're very sweet. All right, we got
(51:46):
another question on the way. Here we go hit it.
Speaker 5 (51:50):
Hi, Rosie, this is Victor from San Francisco. I've been
enjoying all your interviews and discussions, especially with Cheeta Rivera.
You have mentioned at various times you had lots of
determination and confidence from a young age. It's so impressive.
But where does it come from when you were that
young as a child, nature, nurture, maybe a combination. Welcome
(52:11):
your thoughts, take care and appreciate all that you've done.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Thank you so much, very sweet. You know where does
that come from, that kind of self confidence? I don't
really know. I think it probably came in my jeens
in some capacity. And then there was the nurture part
of having my mom die when I was so young,
having five children with no kind of leader at home,
because my dad was lost in his own way and
(52:37):
at work like men were in the seventies, you know,
early seventies. He was gone. He wasn't somebody that was
prominently featured in our lives the way dads are today.
You know, in the seventies, your dad was somebody who
went to work, begrudgedly and came home and had a
couple of drinks and watched the game and yelled at
their kids. I don't know. It didn't seem so kumbaya
(52:58):
with that. When I was growing up, I came out
of the birth canal. I think no one who I
was in some ways, and I think from having my
mom died so young, it forced me kind of to
be an adult in some ways, and I always thought, well,
(53:18):
I got to take care of everybody now, and I'm
sure my siblings felt the same thing. I think, you know,
mother laws or parent loss at such a young age
is really defining for your whole life. And I think
the combination of wanting to bully myself up and have
(53:39):
it as a protection, I think all those things are
combined into one. But self confidence is something that I
hope to instill in all my kids, and I think
I've done it with the big ones, and I'm trying
very hard with my little daughter, who is autistic, as
I said before, and has her own specific way of
looking at the world, and it's opened by world in
(54:02):
ways I can't even describe adequately. You know, She's really
changed the way I am in this world and the
way I feel about it. And a dolphin just swam by. Everybody.
We had a whale about an hour ago, and now
we have a dolphin just swem by, which means they
probably are friends because they hang out in pods, you know,
(54:24):
But anyway, that's what I think. It's a combination of both,
and I'm glad you love the Cheetah RIVERA interview. I
love her so much and she's such a living legend,
and how great that she did that for all of us,
So thank you for saying that. All right, everybody, so
we are done for the day. And if you want
to leave a voice memo, how do you do it?
(54:46):
You take your iPhone, you hit voice memo, you go
hey Rosie, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
You hang up, and then you go to Onward Rosie
at gmail dot com and you you little voice memo
to that email and it will come right to this show.
Thank you for all your comments, and wish we could
(55:07):
get to all of them, but we'll get to as
many as we can. And next week a wonderful guest,
another friend of mine, Ricky Lake, and we have a
laugh riot, fun hour for you with her as well.
So listen. Thanks everybody, This is Onward with Rosie o'donald.
We'll see you next week.
Well, hey everybody, it's me Rosie O'Donnell. How are you?
Are you good? It's May already? How the hell is
it going so fast? I'm trying to tell it to
slow down. You know, I can't believe that in June
I will have been on this beach for one year
(00:31):
and then I'm going to leave the beach. And it's
so very difficult to do. I gotta tell you, I
just love this house. I just love the being on
the ocean. It's brought me so much joy. And not
only did we see that one whale about a week
and a half ago, we saw another whale three days ago.
(00:53):
And it's so wild. It looks like a prehistoric dinosaur
neck coming up, you know. And it's just it's mother's
mother humpbacks and baby humpbacks, and they swim close to
shore because the orcas kill them out in the deep ocean.
This is what I've been finding out in my new
love of Wales. But yeah, I'm gonna miss this house.
(01:15):
I really am. And you know, I got great friends
who live close by, so it's going to be you know,
it's going to be sad, But I am also so
grateful and I like when I make a plan and
I stick to it. You know. The plan was take
a year, get a chef, get healthy, enjoy the beach
and your child. And that's what I did. And Dakota,
(01:37):
you know, had some opinions and decisions. And you know,
Franny Dresher, my friend, says, why are you letting them
make a decision for you about if you're gonna stay
off the beach? You know, like, if you're not a mom,
you don't get it. You know. I've got this little kid.
She has autism, and she is very unique and particular,
and she's articulate about her feelings and wants you to
(02:01):
know where she's at at all times. And I said,
I don't understand why you would want to move away
from this house. And she said, well, Mommy, I'm afraid
of the tsunami and I would like to have a pool,
and I would like to have Oh my god, I'm
seeing another whale right now. I am seeing another whale
right now. Oh this is too funny. This is too funny.
(02:26):
Three whales in the last three and a half weeks.
Oh god, it keeps bobbing up its little prehistoric black
kind of head area. I don't even know, they almost
come like vertically up from the ground. This is too wild. Listen.
As I'm sitting here thinking how great my life is.
(02:48):
We have a great conversation coming up with my buddy
Cameron Mannheim, who you all know from all of the
many shows she's been on and right now she's on
Law and Order and kicking ass on NBC over there.
And you know what, I love her so much. I
love her so much, and it was such a great conversation.
All I want to say is sit back, relax. Here
(03:10):
we go, everybody. We got some questions at the end
of the podcast. But coming up Cameron Mannheim, I Cam,
I miss you being out here.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I miss it out there too, But I said I
was gonna wait to gloat until your earphones were back
on that It's really beautiful in New York.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right now today. Yeah, but Surreion Malibu, so it's cold,
you're by the ocean, and it is like so stormy
that I was sitting in my house feeling like there
were earthquakes likely that's how much it's rocking. I'm telling you,
the Earth is pissed off. You are not kidding, honey.
It is crazy the weather everywhere and you know, how
(04:01):
how long are we going to be able to just
pretend it's not happening? That's the question, right, It's tragic.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
As long as you know big corporations are paying off
the Republicans.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Oh my god, we're not going there. We could, we could,
but we won't. We won't. Now, are you enjoying your
time in New York? You've been there like a year almost? Right?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I know, I'm here eight months out of the year,
and I love New York. I love it up when
I'm here. You know, I'm at the theater, I'm at
the Knicks game, I'm at the Rangers game.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I saw Billy.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Joel at the garden, right. I love this town. It
is so electrifying. I mean, I love my home in
Los Angeles too, but I am truly by coastal right now.
And isn't that the dream? It really is? It's I'm
sort of that way too. I mean, I live here,
and Dakota's going to school here, but I have my
place still in New York, and I go home to
(04:52):
see the bigger kids. And there's something really wonderful about
being able to live like that.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I know. And now that my son has grown up,
and I feel like I don't have to be in
one place, you know, keeping a steady home for him,
because he's all over the world. I can, you know,
live my second life. This is like a whole new
chapter for me coming back to New York. I went
to college here, where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I went to NYU, I got my master's agree at NAU,
and I lived in this very same apartment that I'm
in right now talking to.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You'll see all the construction going on behind me because
now I'm a grown up and I can afford to
redo the kitchen and do a few nice things to it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So I'm I'm renovating it. Have you kept it for
all these years in New York? I kept it all
these years. I bought it in nineteen ninety one because
I'm very smart. You really are. You're good once money.
You know what you're doing, you know how to decorate.
You're like my go to person out here, you know, Rosie.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
When you're like a big girl like I am, and
you get a dream job like the practice, you think
this is probably the last job I'm ever getting, because
you just never believe you're going to get another one.
So I was really smart, and I saved my money
and I invested it and I did all the right
things because I thought, you know, i'll be teaching in
two years when this show's off the air. So I
(06:11):
just really tried to be smart about it. And then
you know, all I dreams came true and I got
to continually work.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So now I'm retibating my college apartment. Wow, that is something, Cam,
that really is. And I see you on Instagram going
out to a different Broadway show every night, and I
read something that you posted that you don't post about
a theater piece unless you loved it, because you don't
want to tear down theater. And I did the same
thing when I had my TV show. You know, when
(06:40):
I loved it, I was effusive. I couldn't stop talking
about it. And then they'd say, hey, could you come
and see the Scarlet Pimpernel. I was like, I saw it.
They're like, okay, would you talk about it. I'm like,
I can't, you know, because once, once you say that
you love something, you didn't all your credit.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Well that's the truth, you know, Rosie. I just want
to say you did for theater what Oprah did for books.
You really got people back into the theater. And I
was here in New York, you know, doing plays, and
everyone was so thrilled that you focus so much of
your show on the magic of Broadway and off Broadway
(07:23):
and off off Broadway.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
But it's true.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I write really positive things about the theater, and then
people start.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
To not believe me. They're like, well, now I don't
know what to see because you write something nice about everything.
And I finally posted and said, I really want to
set the record straight. I see dozens of plays that
I don't write about, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Write a bad review because something I don't like. Another person,
you know, thought was the second Coming of Christ, right,
So why would I try to stop someone from going
to the theater. I'm just not going to personally put
my stamp on it.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, I think that's vital, because you know, it is
just as hard to get a play that isn't wonderful
up on Broadway. The work that's put in by the
directors and the lighting design, all the people that work
on it and the actors that by the time it
gets up there, it's a major accomplishment period. And Youina Rosie,
you produced the show with boy George, right, correct, you
(08:20):
produce that, And I remember they did a documentary and
the critics they're just hateful. Yeah, you know, not just
to your show, but to a lot of shows the
like Wicked will never work, right, you know, what the
fuck do they know? Right? Right? And somebody said, I
think it was boy George, or it could have been you.
I'm sorry, I don't remember. You know. The only thing
I retain is water these days. But somebody said, you know, critics,
(08:45):
the people, the very people who are supposed to love
the theater just tear it down.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yes, And it really resonated with me when I saw
that documentary.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
And you know what it takes to put up a
play is what it takes is backbreaking year of solid
work and belief when no one else has it. And
you know, cam one of the most redemptive things that's
ever happened to me in my life. Stephen Sondheim did
a big interview before he died a couple of years
before he died, and he said that Taboo was the
(09:17):
most underrated musical he'd ever seen in his life. And
I was crying when I read. I'm crying, just tearing
you say it. Yeah, it really gave me like all
of the horror that I felt about its failure was
kind of erased by the being seen by him, you know,
you know, had he only been writing reviews, that could
(09:38):
have gone an entirely different way. Yes, you know, it's
just one person. And I always say that to my.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Friends who are being you know, critiqued by reviewers. It's
just one person, right, you know, and you can't you
can't give them so much power. But just because you're
talking about Sondheim, I don't know if you know this,
ROUSI but I was the reader when Sondheim was doing
Merrily We Roll Along at Arena Stage.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Are you kidding? I was the reader for a whole week.
They paid me six dollars an hour to come in
and read with Brunadette Peters, Victor Garber like.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It was a dream come true for me. And at
the end of the week this is the absolute truth.
Stephen Sondheim turned to the casting directors and said, well.
He first said to me, Cameron, can you sing? And
I said, yes, I can sing. And he turned to
the casting directors and he said, we should call Camera's
agent and get her in next week to audition for
this because I'd been reading every part all week, and
(10:33):
I guess he liked what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yes, And then I turned to him and I said,
you know, mister Sondheim, I don't have an agent, but
if you want to call me, I'll arrange a meeting
for me to come in next week. Right. And he
turned to the casting director, hand to the god. I
don't believe him. He said, can we get Cameron an
agent and then call that agent next week and get
(10:57):
her in here for an audition? And I would say
five days later, I had my first agent because of
Stephen Stodheim. That is unreal. Cameron. You have magical Hollywood stories.
When I got to know you and got to sit
with you playing poker during the pandemic, every night I
heard these tales and I couldn't believe it. The story
(11:19):
about the practice, about the game that you saw. What's
it called cribbage or something cribbage? Cribbage? Yeah, I don't
even know the name of it. Nevermind tell everyone that story.
This is how you got to be on the practice. Yeah.
I was, like, I said, I graduated from MYU in
the master's program, so I've been seven years of college.
I get out of school. I'm a heavy set girl.
(11:40):
Nobody knows what to do with me. Every agent I
meet says, he remind me of the Kathy Baits. You're
gonna work in about ten years when I grow into
your maturity, And I'm like, wait a minute, I mean
that is a huge honor. They should say that about
Kathy Bates, right, but she's a foot shorter, ten years older,
you know, Southern Next, what about us are the same
(12:01):
except that I'm a big girl, you know, That's all
they could peg me in. So I wasn't getting I
didn't have an agent out of school. I wasn't getting
a lot of jobs. So somebody said, you know, write
what you know, write what you're an expert at. So
I wrote a one woman show called wake Up. I'm
Fat about growing up in America, being fat, having parents
(12:22):
who were you know, it was really hard for them
because they wanted me to thrive and knew that this
town didn't know what to do with me. So I
wrote a one woman show and it happened to hit
a nerve, you know, because no one had been writing
about that, right. And I happened to have gone to
school with Marsha Gay Harden, who's a dear friend of mine. Now,
she introduced me to my son's father. I'm her children's
(12:45):
god parent. You know, we're like sisters, sisters, we're like sisters.
And she's like, who's coming to your opening night? I'm like,
I don't know, Marsha, just my friends. She goes, no,
you'll have to have people at your opening night. I'm like,
I don't have people. I don't even have it. What
are you talking about? She goes, I'm going to get
you some people. So and she did. She brought her manager,
(13:09):
she brought a casting director. He brought Jody Foster. Like,
there were people at my opening night. I feel really
felt like a star, you know. Right.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Anyway, after the show was over, the casting director says
to me, how come I don't know who you are?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
And I'm like, well, isn't that your problem? Like that's
your job. Haven't you heard? Haven't you heard? Anyway, he
asked me for a tape. I gave him the only
tape I had. He brought it back. He goes, my
boss is looking for a street wise and sassy, gum
smacking lawyer. And I'm like, I'm street wise. I'm I'm
(13:45):
gum smacking, and he brings my one tape back. I
had done one show in my life. It was on
Law and Order, which we'll come back to. I'm sure.
I played a lawyer who knew sign language and I
had a deaf client and because I know sign language,
another crazy story, they asked me to do this role.
So I give him this date. He brings it.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Back to his boss. His boss says, she's not for me.
It's not what I'm looking for. She's too she's too
buttoned up. I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And the casting director fought for me and he said
she's butting up because the wardrobe person put her in
that outfit. She's wearing pearls because of that. This girl
is street wise and sassy. You're gonna have to trust me.
And so his boss is like, okay, I'll meet her.
And so Marsha's manager says to me, Cameron, David Kelly
(14:32):
wants to meet you. You're gonna have to fly out
to New York. And I'm like, oh my god, I've
heard these stories. When they fly you out she shit
the chocolate chip cookies in first class exactly, and she's like, well,
it's not really like that he wasn't really planning to
meet you, but the casting director kind of forced his hand.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So if you want to find your way out to
La and need him, he's happy to meet you. I'm like,
that doesn't sound like he's happy to meet me right
at all?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Like that doesn't sound inviting at all. I'm gonna pay
four one hundred dollars we have trip, you know, to
go visit this guy who hates me already. And she's like,
if I were you, I would do it. You don't
get these opportunities. So I'm like, all right, I flew out.
I get in the room with this guy, David Kelly.
I don't know anything about him. I heard he wrote
(15:16):
like on La Law in Chicago Hall, but that's it.
There was no Go, no Google, there's no Google, and
so I, uh, I'm in the room and it was
the probably worst four minutes of my life. I could
see the four hundred dollars going down the drain, and
he was he was He's very dry, but I it
was scary. He was like, so, uh, you're an actor
(15:38):
and I'm like, yeah, that's why I just met my
wife's evings that flew across the contint to meet, and
he wasn't helping because he didn't want.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Me to win, you know, he didn't want me to
He wasn't into me. So it was over four minutes.
I was walking out the door and I noticed next
to his couch he had a cribbage board. And I'm
a big game player, as you know, right, I do
know code names, whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I love a game, and cribbage is a game that
I have known and loved my whole life. So I
just kind of stop. I thought to myself, this guy
is married to Michelle Pfeiffer. When does he play cribbage?
So I just said, uh, do you play cribbage? David Kelly?
And he looked at me. It was the first time
(16:22):
he showed any like signs of life, and he looked
at me. He said, yeah, I do, But I don't
think you want to go there with me. And he said, really, David,
because I feel like I could have this conversation with
you and try to impress you like I'm obviously doing
unsuccessfully now, and I could beat the shit out of
you at cribbage at the same time. And he said, no,
(16:43):
I don't think you understand. I play the computer and
I said, eh, I don't think you understand I play
for money, so why don't we just screw this audition
right now and I'll play you for the part. And
it was crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Because now he's like up on his seat and he's
forward facing and he'said, ah, I just want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I mean, I don't want to freak you out or anything,
but I skunk to my mother last week and I said, wow, David,
you know what what I'm sensing. I sense your fear,
So what's the problem. Let's play for the part. If
I lose, you'll never see me again. And if I win,
I walk out with the script and he's like ah.
He was like heaming and haueing. It was so beautiful
to see him off balance. Yes, And he's like, look,
(17:23):
I can't play you for the part because I haven't
written the script yet, but I'll make you this deal.
If you leave my office right this minute, you'll be
the first one to get it when it's finished. Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And I was like, you got a deal, buddy, And
I walked out and the casting director followed me.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
He goes, what just happened? And I go, uh, your boss, nikes,
he can beat me in cribbage and he's wrong, right anyway,
the beauty of that story is I mean, it's if
you really want to know the whole thing, you gotta
And I wasn't even planning to. I don't even know
if you can get my book. I don't even know
if it's some plopless daywork, right, but the whole story
is there. It's really quite beautiful what happened over the years.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I did get the script when it was written, and
it felt like the description had changed for me, if
you know. Instead it was like this big ballsy woman
walks in and takes over the room, and like three
weeks later I had this role wow, and cut to
I turned sixty last year, and my son and my
mother for my birthday, organized something really groovy. I went
(18:23):
to my office, I turned on my computer and David
came up on my zoom screen.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And said, I want to challenge you to a rematch.
And on my sixtieth birthday, David Kelly and I replayed
Cribbage and who won that one? The last time. I'm
going to seal the verdict because I'm a lady more
with Cameron Manheim. After this, you are, I have to say,
(19:04):
Camm one of the best game players you and that
kathen A jimmy friend of ours. She is a pretty
damn try she does. She's not enthusiastic, but she's a
great player. It's like she's kissed by the game. God,
I don't understand. She doesn't even care and she wins.
It makes me so mad. Yeah, yeah, she's good. She
beat me on Pyramid a couple times. She's so good
(19:27):
at it. She's really amazing. Now do you remember the
first time you did fly first class? Because when you
said that about the cookies, it reminded me of the
first time I did. And uh, it was so trippy.
Do you remember what yours was? Well? It was. It
was very interesting because I was auditioning for a Disney show,
(19:48):
Pictionary for Kids, and I was going to be the host.
And I get on the flight coming back and I'm
in first class and who do I see? First? Peter
Frampton is so in first class and I'm like, I
will my god, that's Peter Frampton. Like I couldn't even
you know, I'm like twenty one years old at this point,
maybe you know. And so then in walks Christopher Reeve
(20:14):
stop it, and he's in the first row of first class,
but on the other side of where I'm sitting, and
I'm like, Christopher Reeve and Peter Frampton are on my flight,
and I had never ever seen a celebrity like that
up close. So then get this. Someone is escorted to
the scene in my row but across the aisle from me,
(20:36):
so I could have reached out my arm and tapped
her shoulder. All flight, Meryl Streep, stop it, Meryl Streep,
Why did you so thrown? You pose yourself? Now? I
was so thrown that I did whatever she did. The
flight attendant came by and said, do you want champagne?
She said no, I said no. They asked her what
(20:57):
she wanted. She had the veggie platter, which, trust me,
I've never ever had a veggie platter. I ordered the
veggie platter. I did whatever she did, and then the
script that I had, which was for a game show.
But the script I was looking thinking that she was
going to like look over and go, do you need
help reading with that? Sweetheart? But she didn't say anything.
And I've since told her the story and it's it's
pretty funny. But I remember being on that flight, and
(21:20):
I remember feeling so upset that I didn't get the
ice cream Sunday because Meryl Streep didn't. Oh my god, Rosie,
my heart is so full listening to those. I have
two things to say about that.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
When I am on a first class flight now and
big stars come on, I think to myself, Man, if
this plane goes down, I'm not going to make the
headline exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think we all do that, honey.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And by the way, I just saw, I don't mean
to drop this name. Hold on, well, I'm gonna bend
over and pick it up. Ahead, get it go, get
I just saw Meryl Streep. We did a reading here
in New York for a wonderful, celebrated playwright called John
Guer and I reminded her of a story between her
and I that happened many years Guys had a big
(22:01):
Hollywood party and.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I had occasion to speak to MARYL. Street, who had
never spoken to and we're talking. I don't I just
it was amazing, And all of a sudden, her lips
are moving, and I say to her, Meryl, I can't
concentrate on anything you're saying because Mick Jagger is standing
right behind you. She's like to my left or to
my right, and all of a sudden we were just
(22:24):
the same person and ride with Mick Jagger and this
is such a sweet moment. I reminded her of that
a couple of weeks ago, and that was fun for me.
I will say, this is a fun story. I'm free
to flying and I didn't know that I don't like
to fly. Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And I had to finally go to a hypnotherapist because
I was turning down jobs like whoopee, always was turning
down stuff, you know, I didn't like to fly. So
I went to a hypnotist and I had like five
sessions and then I accepted.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
This job in Vancouver. And so I'm on the flight.
I'm sitting next to a gentleman who looks, you know,
like a nice diuye and good looking, and I'm feeling
pretty good and I'm like, man, that hypnotherapy worked. And
I'm sitting next to the sky going I just feel
comfortable next to him somehow. And then we fly. We
(23:12):
land in Vancouver and everyone that's when all the celebrities
talk to each other. They don't talk to each other
within the flight, but when everyone's getting up, they're like, hey,
and I saw that, and I really loved your works.
And somebody said to my seat mate, oh, Richard, you're
doing such great work on mcgiver, and I'm like, oh
my god. That's why I was still comfortable. I was
sitting next to mcguy, for he could have landed the
(23:34):
plane for me exactly with a paper clip and a
rubber band. He could have landed it safely. So that
was my best flight.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And I just want to call up you know him, Richard,
and just say could we just fly together all the time?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
But I'm much better at it now. Did it really help?
The hypnotism? I think it really did help.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And I think that you know, when you have a
kid and you're a single mom, it's like, if I
something happens to me, who's going to love my kid
as much as I love him?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Totally? Can't I mean totally get what you mean and
like to fly for that reason.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
But no, now he's his own person and he can
you know, navigate life.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Now, your son I adore, as do all of your
friends who know him. He is the kindest, most affable,
most genuinely big hearted man child, and he's so talented
as an actor. Thank you, Rosie. I mean did you, Cam,
did you think that you were raising an actor? Did
this ever enter your mind? Like, was was he a
(24:29):
little boy who was into this or did it come
when he was a teenager. No, he fell in love
with community theater when he was about seven or eight.
I mean, he's done thirty musicals in his little life.
Did I think he'd go on to become, you know,
a well known actor at the age of fifteen. No,
I thought he would love acting, love musicals, love dancing,
(24:54):
go on to college, decide if he wanted to direct
or write or whatever I've told you going to be
in this world. He seemed to kind of move in
and out of it very fluidly. And he loved all
my friends.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
He loves adults, and you know, I have game nights
all the time, and.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And he just I don't know, he seemed to love it.
But he was discovered in high school in a musical
and a casting director came to see a musical that
his high school was doing and she was like, who's
that kid, And she like, that's Milo Manheim's any relation
to Cameron? And she kept him on file for about
a year, and then a year later she hunted him
(25:33):
down through my agent and said I'd like to see
the Smilo Manheim for a show, and then it's just
was born. It was kind of a runaway train. There
was no stopping it, you know. Once he was playing
Billy Flynn in Chicago and Roger and Rent and you know,
Tevia and Fiddler, every role that train. Yes, and he's
(25:57):
so handsome too. He's such a good looking, tall, gorgeous
young man and a harticle. You know, we were talking
one night and you were there, of course, and a
bunch of our friends. I think it was at Robin's,
I don't remember, but he said to me how he
used to fall asleep listening to you and all your
friends play games, and how it comforted him and made
(26:19):
him it made it easier for him to fall asleep.
What a beautiful kind of testament to his childhood and
how you raised him, and how he was included in
everything and a part of everything. You know, he wasn't
sent to his room while your friends were there. He
was part of the whole thing, you know. Yeah, thank you, Rosie.
He loves games, he loves poker.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
He will you know, he comes on our code names
and he doesn't mind that, you know, none of us.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Are his age. He loves the whole strat you know,
he's an escape room master. Wow, he travels the world
to do escape room. He's on his way to Greece
to do a twenty four hour escape room. When you
sleep there, when I can tell, it's crazy. So that's
the mathematical side of my family handed down to him.
(27:06):
That he loves strategy and figuring out puzzles and clues.
And then my competitive side that you know, I'm not
competitive where I'm mean, I'm just competitive for you know,
the honor of it. You know, of course I don't
care for playing for a nickel ride for five hundred dollars.
I'm playing for pride and which is and for fun.
(27:26):
You have so much fun doing it. But you come
from a family of braining acts, don't you.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, my family are. They're kind of like intellectual Jews.
My father was a professor of mathematics, my mother was
a teacher. My brother went to Harvard Law school. You know,
my sister is brilliant. Her sons or doctors and you know, biologists.
It's insane, how you know, from the top down kind
(27:52):
of education and college was really important. So Milo being
the only person in the lineage right now who hasn't
you know, filled out a four year college degree.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Was hard on my ninety seven year old mother. I'm
sure it was. I'm sure it was. She was like,
are you sure he's not going to go back. I'm like,
you know, like, mom, he's doing okay. Yeah, he's starring
in college. Every Disney show there is, He's the star
of it. I hell, I know. And it's like types
of change, Rosie. You don't have to go to college
(28:25):
to do well anymore. It's so true.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
It used to be this staple you had to achieve
in order to get somewhere else. But now the world
has really opened their minds about how brilliant young people are.
And you know, there are things you miss by not
going to college, you know, socialization, how to make dinners and.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Clean up at the hard way. When Google hires you
at eighteen, yes, yes, for sure. Now you told your
friends that you were going to have a baby by
yourself if you weren't with anyone by the time you
hit forty, and then you hit forty and said it's
a now or never? Is that kind of how it happened? Well,
(29:04):
because you know, I'm a planner. I'm like, I'm thirty eight,
and there's no way I'm going to fall in love
with someone and agree to have a baby with them
by the time I'm forty. So I'm gonna start working
on that right now. Wow, good fan. You know. I
thought about it really long and hard, and I decided
to instead of trying to enter into a relationship that
(29:25):
I didn't know if I wanted to navigate with that
person for the lifetime of a child, I decided to
ask a friend. So I at first focused on like
my Jewish intellectual friends, and I thought, maybe that's what
I should do because that's so much like my family.
And then I'm like, we got enough of that in
my family. Let me go and ask an elegant, model, musical,
(29:52):
you know, artistic person. So I asked it old dear
friend who Marsha get hard and introduce me to circling back.
She's always a mind. I know she's she plays heavily
in my life magic force.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And we had a really long talk about it, and
that's you know, I've always been an independent woman.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I believe that there's all kinds of different families.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
You do too, and I know that all that matters
is love, and so I decided to go that route.
And I didn't tell the story early on because I
thought it was really Milo's story to tell and he
could tell it how he saw fit. But he is
now very proud and about his father and how he
(30:37):
was raised, So now I feel like I could talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
But Milo got the best of both of us.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You know, he got his father's beautiful physique, he's got
my perfect nose, he's got you know, and both of
us are very affable and friendly, and so he really
he did.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
He did good. Milah got Milo got some good genes.
And was there any complications with them raising him with
the father? There was none like, oh I want him
on this now, I want custod Nothing of like that.
Absolutely zero. We had an incredible understanding. You know, we
had legal documents too that were never called upon. You know, you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Always say, hey, we're going to do this, you know, mutually,
what's good for both of us. But then you know,
you he probably worried and thought, well, what if it's
not mutual, And so we did. We had, you know,
legal documents drawn up to protect him, which I completely understood,
and that is fair. But we never had to resort
to that because we travel together. We've been to Europe
(31:36):
and Canada. We've been, we've ski we do tons of
things together while Milo was growing up. And actually Milo
and his dad just went to Hawaii for a week.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So it's been it's been wonderful, and I've tried to
guide other friends down this path, you know as well,
because there's nothing wrong with getting sperm donors up of
a buff firm.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Me I just think I wanted to know the full history,
you know, And that went to littleness since that was
for me.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
All Kelly and I did the same thing. One of
her friends was the donor, and I could not do
the anonymous either because I thought, like every time I'd
walk down the street and look at someone, I go,
is that it is that the you know? I wanted
to know, and I thought it would be important for
the baby to know, you know, when when looking for
their identity or their birth parents. And Vivi has UH
(32:33):
when she turned eighteen, so for two years she's been
in contact with him and he has a wonderful wife
and a son, and they came over to the house
here and and it was just a beautiful thing, you know,
I haven't seen this guy in twenty years and he
walks in still gorgeous, and you know, I was like,
I don't know how to thank you for the greatest
thing that I've ever been gifted, you know, thank you.
(32:55):
And he's so proud of her, and they have a
beautiful thing. You know, they're building a relationship now. That's wonderful. Yeah,
I never eat Father's Day. I think Milo was. I
came to it with love and the right perspective, you know,
and I think he knew that. So we never had
any conflict. I didn't try to steal him.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
For time, and he didn't try to steal him for time,
and it was really it was perfect. And Milo is
you know, a great representative of that because he knows that,
you know, it was all positive and good.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, the intent was right from the get go. The
intent matters, you know, and everything.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You so by the way, you know, you said to me,
I wanted to have a baby by the time I
was forty. Milo was actually due eleven days after I
was born, but I induced him and I had him
two days before I turned forty.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
So I had that guy. I did a kid before
I turned forty. Yes, you did, honey, Yes do, but
I induced.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
It because he was nine point six pounds. Oh my gosh,
Oh he baked and ready to come out. Yeah, he
was done, and boy did he grow up good. He's
a fine looking young and I really love him, Cammy, He's.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
A Grammy's a lot to me, Rosie. Now, I also
am a little jealous of you having a vibrant participatory,
a live, eccentric mother who is ninety seven years old.
I like, I can't fathom it, you know, I look
at it and I go, she's a grown up with
kids who are grown up, and she has the mother
(34:23):
still living. I mean, what do you think about that?
Does it go through your head? Like? How did how
did we get this? It is a gift from the
universe to have my fully capable and remarkable mother at
ninety seven years old. My mother goes to Senior University
four days a week. She goes and takes classes on
(34:48):
you know, existentialism, current events, Shakespeare.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It is crazy. She is truly a remarkable woman. She
marched with Martin Luther King, she fought for women's right
to choose. She has been a steadfast, you know, fighter
of freedom, and she is really the incredible matriarch of
our family. She is great grandkids, She's something else. It
(35:14):
is not lost on me. I call her every day, Yeah,
every day. I sometimes hear the same stories. That's okay,
but that's by you.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I'll take you. Yeah. And how do you think she
stays so? I mean she's obviously curious. She keeps her
intellectual uh you know, stimulation on high. I mean, how
do you explain to be that healthy at that age
and still going strong jeans? You think it's just jeans
or I think some of it is jeans, And I
(35:45):
think she has led. She's trim. She has never taken medication.
I'm like, mom, just take a mo trin. She's like,
I don't need it. She is. She's just one of that.
But women never complains and never shows her pain. And
she's so stalwart. You know, she's so stolid. But I
(36:08):
don't know's. She's got stuff to do, and we keep
giving her things to look forward to. You know, there's
a wedding next year, there's an opening, there's babies being porn.
We just keep giving her and she focuses all her
attention on those great upcoming events. So she makes new friends.
It's just she loves people, so she's out and about.
(36:30):
She takes watch My mother is legally blind and walks
a couple of miles a day with her cane by herself.
I don't need a babysitter. Oh, that's what she says.
That it's wild.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
We never know what to expect when a phone call
comes about your mother wandered into our house and had
some of our coffee cake.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Like that would be my mother, right right, But if
you sit next to her on a plane, Rosie, it
would go like this, do you watch TV? My daughter's
on television? And then before you know it, that's the
whole conversation, right, yes, well, how proud she must be,
come on, especially when she worried whether you would work
because you were heavy. You know, yeah, she did not
(37:11):
think I would more with Cameron Mannheim after this, you
(37:34):
and I have talked about this about, you know, struggling
with our weight and that sometimes wardrobe people can be
really cruel, like, you know, they can say, well, I
don't have anything in your size. Can you bring your
own clothes? That happens to me all the time. And
still yeah, and you've lost and you you've lost some weight,
you know, I keep trying, you know. I just had
(37:56):
knee surgery and it's been it was really hard on me,
and I'm like, I have to participate in not being
in so much pain, you know, And my mother is
such a good role model about that. So I've worked
really hard at it, most recently, just to get out
of pain. Pain is really has been the roughest part
about being in New York. New York will kill you. Yeah,
(38:17):
you gotta moved so much of you totally. Yeah. You
get in a cab and you sit so people walk
thirty blocks forty blocks to their destination without a blink.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I ride a city bike almost every day, and I
think that has a lot to do with it. I'm
on those bikes constantly. A. I don't want to pay
for ubers. They're so ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And even though I can afford it, it's the point, right,
And so yeah I will. I will get on a
city bike and ride up to you know, I look
in the East Village. I'll ride up to the Central Park, right,
just so I don't have to pay thirty five dollars
for exactly I get you, honey, I totally get you.
Now you're in New York because of Law and Order
(38:58):
and that was your first job and now you got
it again. It's a dream come true, that's for sure.
How did that come about? Was it just like we
want her back, get her back? How did that go down?
I don't I don't know what the back room talks were,
you know it. I was just minded my own business.
I had no idea this show was even being brought back, right,
(39:21):
it had been you know, Lawn Order was on the
air for twenty years and then it went off the
air for ten years. And from that original Lawn Order
also spun new lawn Orders Lawn Order SBU, Law and
Order Organized Crime, which we're on now. It's very confusing
to people who aren't Law and Order fans, right, but
if you're a Lawn Order fan, you know exactly what
I'm talking about. So I just thought the original mothership
(39:43):
was over. Yeah, and then I got a call. That's
the beauty of it, Rosie. I know, you never know
what's gonna happen. They called and they wanted you imagine that, right,
I didn't have to be like I heard their rebooting
Lawn Order. Can you see if I can get in?
What were they casting like? I have to do that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I get a call and I really think it was
Dick Wolf. He was like, we need a formidable.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Female lieutenant who wal't take crap from the two detectives,
you know, at the time it was Anthony Anderson and
Jeffrey Donovan. And I need someone who can stand up,
you know, stand up and boss those those dudes around.
And I'm like, I'm street wise and sassy as the
boss dudes around. Still street wise and sassy from the beginning, right,
(40:30):
And so I got the offer, and it was a
hard It was hard at the time to make a
decision to move across the country, you know, you just
moved the other way exactly. I would really loved it
if you were still here. And I hadn't lived in
this apartment for twenty five years, right, I was renting
it for twenty five years. And I'm like, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Back, like I'm like a college student, back to my apartment,
back to you know, working in New York.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
And it took me.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
It took me a second to like really understand that
this is a whole other chapter for me. I get
to go back and fall in love with New York
and revisit all of those friendships that.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
You know when you're across the country, you don't get
some harter, yes, see as much harter right. And I
got here.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I did a remodel on my apartment, and I started
having game nights right away. In fact, I made Kathen
to Jimmy have two game nights for me because my
apartment was being remodeled.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I'm like, I have to have a game night.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I invited my friends, I got food, like you have
to host it. And now I had a Super Bowl party.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I've already had two game nights in the past ten days,
like I can't.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
That is my happiest place on the planet right and
in my retirement, I would like to have a bed
and breakfast and we do games at night after you
go out for your day trifts and you come back
and we have some good food and a good game.
One night we'll be code names. One night we'll be poker.
Another one will be running Charie that Catan and you
(42:01):
can't forget Catan.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Oh, you know how much I love Yes. I just
learned it a few a few months ago. Parker was
When Parker was here, he taught me how to play
it and you know you get free onlon. We could
play online just you and me. All right, honey, I'm
in all You taught me code names. You could help
me with this one too. So do you think you're
gonna stay there as long as the job goes or
you're gonna try to come back when it? You know,
(42:23):
I know you're here when when you're on hiatus, right,
it's the in between you come back here. But as
you know, I don't love to fly. So you know
some people I have friends who have three days off
and go go home, you know, to see their family.
I need a good like ten days if I'm gonna
(42:44):
commit to flying across the country. I came home for.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Christmas for a month, and I'll come home for hiatus.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
But no, I'm in it for the long haul. This
is an incredible job.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I was at an opening of a play a few
weeks ago and this woman at.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Me and she was serious, to what you have my job?
I want that job.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I hope she was in a tradition for it, right,
She's an actress and she wanted that goddamn job.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
It is. It is like the mother load for a
woman my age. I don't work that much, but I'm
on a show that is loved and I'm in a
city that I adore, So I will be on it
as long as network television exists, which I don't know
how long that yeah, nobody knows. It could be over
in a year, but it's a You're great on it.
(43:34):
You're great in everything you do. I remember when I
saw you in The Full then the Deaf Spring Awakening, Yes,
and you were across the stage walking in that outfit,
and you have such presence. Cam. I was like in
the audience watching going look at how she can command.
You were like, you know, deep in the in the set,
(43:57):
on the set, away from where the audience was, and
you slowly walked across the whole stage, and I remember
being transfixed. You're such an amazing actress really and everything
you do. And I first fell in love with you
with that David Kelly show Private Practice, and everyone else
in America did too, and I think you've been like
(44:17):
a staple in our life and world since then. You know, hey,
you It's it's been really amazing moving here and getting
to know you so well. It's been a gift.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
That has been one of my favorite things. You know,
if there's any silver lining to COVID, and there aren't many.
You know, I can say the same about you, and
we don't have to have like this full on, you know,
love fest. But Rosie, of course, I was so deeply
in love with you on so many levels. When you
did your show, what you did for theater, the kind
of questions you asked, they weren't frivolous.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You let me ride by motorcycle onto your stage. Come on,
we're so that I did a mammogram with a deaf
woman on one of your shows. Right, you were so
influential in my generation and to others, and then you know,
this horrible thing happens to the world.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
And you and I have talked and seen each other, yeah,
and there and Allie's enjoyed each other's company when we
were around each other, and all of a sudden we
come together night after night, not just one night for games,
but another night for games, and then another night for
our private little hooking around a community that we had.
(45:29):
And you talked about your kids, and I talked about mine,
at our mothers, at our lives and our weight and
our loves and our you know, misfortunes, and it was
I don't know there was.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
That was such a special time. And what's even more
special is now that COVID has found a way to
interact in the world, our friendship is still so solid.
I came to visit you in your beautiful home and
your daughter, and we just it is the silver lining
of a horrible time in our history. I agree. It
was the friendships that I made. And you know, it's
(46:03):
funny moving out here. You guys were like, come on,
I was so depressed in New York, in my house
in New Jersey, unable to move it. You were like,
you could do it. I'm like, but it's COVID. You're like, no,
you could do it. Come on. And uh when I
finally did it, I was like, thank god, I did it.
I think it was just in time, because boy, that
was a depressing time for so many millions of us,
(46:25):
right if you struggle with depression to begin with, and
then to be in the middle of that. I was
like in New York when I think about what New
Yorkers went through, like the streets. Yes, I look at
those photographs, but but sometimes you just need a little
sun shine. Rosie honey, And it's helped me so much.
(46:45):
It's helped me so much. I have a trouble here
in New York with the darkness, and I'm thinking about
getting one of those lights that make it look like
the sun is rising with you. Yes, I've had. I've
used those. They're very helpful because they're you know, from
like November through March through spring. That was the toughest
time for me there, and I remember feeling it as
(47:07):
a child. I remember the gray descending and me thinking,
oh no, I have to go back in the cave.
You know, it's it's such a struggle, but I find
it here. For my depression, it's exponentially increased. You know.
I'm so happy, and it's thanks to you and all
my pals from out here who made it such an
easy transition and helped me so much that you know,
(47:29):
it's been just serendipity for me. So thank you. Cameron Manheim.
Oh my god, I'm so happy. You're at the beach
with the sunshine and your daughter is thriving and thriving.
You should say her man listen, thank you for doing this,
but thank you so much. Okay, honey, I'm going to
go get my kid after school, and I love you
(47:49):
and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much.
It was great. Thank you so much. She is delicious,
Cameron Manheim. Did I tell you she really is? Stay tuned, everybody.
We got some questions coming up, and thank you Cameron Manh.
(48:24):
Hey we're back. Thanks for sticking around commercials. They can
be long and annoying. I understand, but hey, there's a
business and show business people. Okay, making myself laugh. Sorry,
we've got some questions from you. Here's the first question.
I haven't read these or I don't know what they're about,
so hit it.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
Hey, Rosie, it's Adam and Boston. I'm so glad you
have this podcast. I missed hearing you often, so it's great.
I just was calling in to tell you that well,
first of all, that I love you, and the second
of all, just that I hope you don't have regrets
(49:06):
about producing Taboo the Musical, because my mom took me
to see that show in New York because it was
a real bonding moment for us being a young queer person.
I wanted to ask if you, I guess, had any
regrets about it and if you would ever produce another
(49:29):
musical again on Broadway. And my second just thought for
you is. I just want you to know that I
didn't know who Lee Bowery was at the time when
I saw the show, and I just was opened up
to this world. And it's one of the reasons that
I went to art school and became a designer. So
(49:50):
thank you so much for that, And onward with my
question and podcast row love you.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
How sweet, Hi, honey. I'm so glad that you went
to see Taboo and that you saw it with your mom,
and I understand the profound effect it had on you
because it had an effect on me like that too.
You know. I saw that show Taboo over in London
and boy George was in it, playing Lee Bowery, and
it was in a small kind of off Broadway theater
(50:18):
over there in the West End. And I went up
to the usher and I said, does boy George come
often to the show? And they said he was on stage.
I didn't even know it was him, and he came
over and we introduced ourselves, and I was like, how
can I make this into a Broadway show? You know?
(50:40):
And I thought it would be simple, and I thought
it would be easy, and it was none of the above.
But it was so much fun and it was so
helpful to me as an artist too, to learn all
about Lee Bowery and his life and his art, and
it woke me up in a lot of ways to
a kind of a person who lives their art daily.
(51:04):
And it used to be I think when I was younger,
that I would be a little afraid of people who
were kind of way out of the norm. And Lee
Bowery kind of taught me, not himself obviously, through the show,
taught me how to accept everyone and see the art
in their daily living. It's quite a thing to master
(51:25):
to be able to use yourself as a canvas and
be out in the world fully presenting your art and
yourself as one. But Adam, your note is very sweet,
and I have no regrets about doing it, because there's
nothing better in showbiz than Broadway. There you go, Thank you,
Adam very much. You're very sweet. All right, we got
(51:46):
another question on the way. Here we go hit it.
Speaker 5 (51:50):
Hi, Rosie, this is Victor from San Francisco. I've been
enjoying all your interviews and discussions, especially with Cheeta Rivera.
You have mentioned at various times you had lots of
determination and confidence from a young age. It's so impressive.
But where does it come from when you were that
young as a child, nature, nurture, maybe a combination. Welcome
(52:11):
your thoughts, take care and appreciate all that you've done.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Thank you so much, very sweet. You know where does
that come from, that kind of self confidence? I don't
really know. I think it probably came in my jeens
in some capacity. And then there was the nurture part
of having my mom die when I was so young,
having five children with no kind of leader at home,
because my dad was lost in his own way and
(52:37):
at work like men were in the seventies, you know,
early seventies. He was gone. He wasn't somebody that was
prominently featured in our lives the way dads are today.
You know, in the seventies, your dad was somebody who
went to work, begrudgedly and came home and had a
couple of drinks and watched the game and yelled at
their kids. I don't know. It didn't seem so kumbaya
(52:58):
with that. When I was growing up, I came out
of the birth canal. I think no one who I
was in some ways, and I think from having my
mom died so young, it forced me kind of to
be an adult in some ways, and I always thought, well,
(53:18):
I got to take care of everybody now, and I'm
sure my siblings felt the same thing. I think, you know,
mother laws or parent loss at such a young age
is really defining for your whole life. And I think
the combination of wanting to bully myself up and have
(53:39):
it as a protection, I think all those things are
combined into one. But self confidence is something that I
hope to instill in all my kids, and I think
I've done it with the big ones, and I'm trying
very hard with my little daughter, who is autistic, as
I said before, and has her own specific way of
looking at the world, and it's opened by world in
(54:02):
ways I can't even describe adequately. You know, She's really
changed the way I am in this world and the
way I feel about it. And a dolphin just swam by. Everybody.
We had a whale about an hour ago, and now
we have a dolphin just swem by, which means they
probably are friends because they hang out in pods, you know,
(54:24):
But anyway, that's what I think. It's a combination of both,
and I'm glad you love the Cheetah RIVERA interview. I
love her so much and she's such a living legend,
and how great that she did that for all of us,
So thank you for saying that. All right, everybody, so
we are done for the day. And if you want
to leave a voice memo, how do you do it?
(54:46):
You take your iPhone, you hit voice memo, you go
hey Rosie, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
You hang up, and then you go to Onward Rosie
at gmail dot com and you you little voice memo
to that email and it will come right to this show.
Thank you for all your comments, and wish we could
(55:07):
get to all of them, but we'll get to as
many as we can. And next week a wonderful guest,
another friend of mine, Ricky Lake, and we have a
laugh riot, fun hour for you with her as well.
So listen. Thanks everybody, This is Onward with Rosie o'donald.
We'll see you next week.
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