March 21, 2023 • 41 mins
On the premiere episode, Rosie welcomes longtime friend and Emmy award-winning star of Cagney & Lacey and Queer as Folk, Sharon Gless. Tune in for discussion about old Hollywood, reaching for the stars, and love between friends.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Well, hi everybody, and welcome to Onward, my very first podcast,
on my very first episode. On this my sixty first birthday.
That's right, I am sixty wonderful years old, and it's
hard for me to believe. Well, thank you for come
and catching this wave with me. The goal is we
will be together for about an hour at a time
(00:38):
each week and we'll share some human wisdom of hope, inspiration,
and a little humor, a little comedy, a little a
little love, people, just a little bit of love. You
can send me your thoughts and questions by voice memo,
and it took me a while to figure out how
you do that. You make a voice memo on your
phone and then you send it to me via email,
(01:00):
and my email is Onward Rosie at gmail dot com.
Once again, Onward Rosie at gmail dot com, and I
will take your voice memos and we will answer some
of them right here on this podcast. So Onward. My
first conversation is with Sharon Gless, a true friend of mine.
(01:22):
I love her, I love her, I love her. We
became friends many years ago when I was doing a
guest spot on Queer as Folk and when they called
and asked me would you be on the show. I said,
of course, I will be on that show, and you
must write in a kiss between my character and Sharon
(01:42):
gless And I'm happy to say that they did exactly that.
I kissed her, and I've never been the same. That's
all I can say. We've remained really good friends in
each other's lives for the last thirty years, and I'm
so grateful for it. I really am. She's the kind
of friend who just shows up. I was in San
(02:02):
Francisco and couldn't get out of the hospital with a
friend who was quite ill, and two weeks we were
stuck there and one day there was a text on
my phone and she said, do you want some iced tea?
On my text, I'm like, Glessie. She's like, yeah, you
(02:23):
were crying so much last night on the phone. I
knew I had to show up, and she did. She
was sitting there outside of my room holding an iced
tea in a Starbucks croissant, and she gave me the
biggest hug and I cried like a baby, and she
took control and got us a flight home on a
ambulance plane, and she was amazing. I can tell you that,
(02:47):
you know, if you're ever in need, Sharon Gless will
show up for you, and she has shown up for me,
and I will continue to show up for her because
I truly truly adore her, I really do, and I
hope that you will too. So we're going to kick
off this podcast with a good friend of mine, somebody
who you know and love. I'll be back with Sharon
glass All right, well, welcome to my first podcast of
(03:32):
Onward with Rosie o'donald. You know how I got this name, Glassie? No,
I was like, you know, I turned sixty and I'm
looking around and going, what do I have to do?
What have I left to do? What can I possibly will?
You know what? Throw everything that happened already out and
now from here onward. I love that so much. I
think I just programmed you into my life again because
(03:56):
I'm about to turn eighty. I know, honey, isn't that amazing?
And I need something to say when I make that turn.
That's it. Onward. You know what I'm doing? What are
you gonna be doing? I'm doing something I always wanted
to do. I'm crossing the Atlantic, crossing the Atlantic on
the q E two, and I'm having all my friends
(04:17):
meet me at the pier when I get to London.
Oh my god, how wonderful is that going to be?
Is it the best? Got a fancy suite? Yes? And
as Barney going with no, I told him he couldn't come,
and I thought, well, what if I can't move around?
You know, what if something happens. So my friend Dawn
says she'll come with me, but Barney's going to be
(04:38):
I said, I want him at the other end to
be there to greet me. I want my own room,
I want I just want everything all for me, good
for you. Can you believe that you're going to be
eighty and that I'm going to be sixty one? I
can't believe you're gonna be sixty one. It's hard for
me to believe sometimes. And I mean, I know this
as it's just a number. It isn't just a number.
(05:00):
I've been around a long time. But I don't feel it.
You don't look it. Oh, please see I do. I'd
just have a light on here. No, you don't, honey,
you think that's the face of eighty. Sharon Gless is
the new face of eighty. All these eighty year olds
are gonna be jumping off our bridge. No, you look
beautiful and you always have, you always have at eighty.
I don't know how you do it. You defy the years. Well,
(05:21):
I'm still standing, So I'm gonna do this, And thank
you so much for that tiff of onward, because I
don't need something to go forward. I just need my will,
you know, my will and my soul and exactly and
my dreams. My dreams have always sustained me. So I
think I have to get some new dreams. That's important.
(05:41):
When you were that little kid growing up in La,
did you dream all this when you were that little
rich girl in the Hollywood royalty family. Apparently you did that.
You manifested it all happened. Yeah, I did dream it.
I didn't know how it quite manifest, as you said,
But I didn't dream of being in this industry when
(06:03):
I was dreaming it. I didn't even know about television.
Really was all movies. I do remember sitting in front
of the TV row when TV's first came out, with
my nose pressed up against it, and watching the Oscars. Yes,
with that song god da da Da Da Dada, that's
what they used to play to open the Oscars every year,
(06:25):
and you'd see Grace Kelly and Elizabeth Taylor in these
gorgeous gowns, and it was another world. That is, do
you quite like that now? And I lived in la
where they had the Cleague lights, you know, going across
the sky right but the pears, and I used to
sit out on the porch and watch it. And I
didn't know quite how my dream would take form, but
(06:49):
I knew I wanted something special. And I've been very
blessed out of life, yes, and I'm yeah. I was
willing to put in right. You know. I didn't need
things just hand it to me. I wanted to do
I wanted to do it. I wanted to work. I
didn't know that I wouldn't have the good fortune I've had,
(07:10):
but I knew how i'd want to feel. And that's
very important any of your listeners. If you have dreams,
you don't need to know what it's going to look like,
but you do know how you want to feel when
you get it. So true, it is true. I always
had the dream of show business the same way that
you did. I didn't have a famous grandfather, I didn't
(07:32):
know anyone in show business. I didn't really know how
I was going to get to Hollywood. I hadn't been
on a plane, you know. I dreamed this before I
had been on a plane, you know. But I had
a destination in mind. I had a place that I
thought I really would end up in. It's not like
I wanted to be in, and I just thought, Oh,
that's where I'm going. I'm going towards that. We were
(07:55):
just sitting here waiting for your row. We were just
sitting here waiting for you. And that's the true I
wanted you to tell everyone who your grandfather was. Oh,
we wouldn't mean anything to anyone today, but well maybe
it does, Okay. His name was Neil S. McCarthy, because
there he has a son another one, but he was
Neil S. McCarthy. And he was, for sure all a
(08:18):
very very poor boy from Phoenix, Arizona. His father drove
the stage coach and was a raging alcoholic. Wow, but
he went to law school. They put himself through law
school and he came to Los Angeles and he ended
up being the biggest, most famous attorney in the golden
days of Hollywood. He was Howard Hughes attorney sees would
(08:38):
be De Mills, Louispi, mayors, yes, and on and on
and did these people like floated and out of your world?
Did you ever see or were you around or no?
Mister Hughes lived down the street from us, but I
never saw him. My mother met him several times. She
used to have to entertain him. When Grandpa wasn't home.
Mister Hughes would come to the house. My mother's hefted
(09:01):
entertain he called the rats. Was he weird by that?
And was he sort of out of it? Ages? Did
like kids? I don't think I never met him. I
asked my grandfather what he was like, and when my
grandfather used an adjective, he was eccentric, That's all he
would say. He was a very good, loyal attorney and
would never tell stories. Right. They looked in my grandfather's
(09:25):
safe at home for the final will. Remember when Hughes
nobody could find the final will. Yeah, they did find
what they thought was the final will and my grandfather's safe.
My grandfather already died. But anyway, when Grandpa died, I
was at his house. They had this thing, you know,
after the funeral, and this huge guardinia tree, not a bush,
but a huge guardina tree had been delivered in course
(09:49):
being nosy, I just opened up the card and had
just said Howard Hughes. Wow. But my grandfather had a
salad named after him that he is very famous at
the Polo Lounge. It's called the McCarthy chop salad. Was
he or your parents either one of them interested in
you becoming an act? Never? No, not one. I mean
(10:10):
I came from a family where they went to the theater,
but you don't get on stage and perform right. It
just wasn't done. It was a large hurdle for me
to get over. But I believe so much that something
wonderful was going to happen. I didn't know what form
it would take. But as I said in my book,
I was at my grandfather's house one evening. Everything was
(10:33):
going wrong in my life, and he asked me to
bring his car to Arizona. So I did, and I
rearended somebody on the way in his car. It was
just those times, you know. And the first night I
was there, his new wife said, what do you want
to do with your life, Sharon. You're twenty six years old.
(10:54):
You have nothing to show for it. It's a little rough.
I was quiet. She said, just say it. Just give
it air, just say it doesn't matter whether you think
you can have it or not. What is it? And
out of my mouth with a few champagnees in me.
I said, I want to be an actress. She said,
(11:16):
so do it. I said, I'm too old, Mary, I'm
twenty six years old. She said, I was under contract
to MGM when I was your age. Hereon. I was terrible,
only last a year. But you can have it, So
what do I said, I can't because Grandpa is against
me going into show business. Even though I was twenty six,
I still did sort of what I was told by
(11:38):
my grandparents. I mean, I'm saying this hoping that people
will hear this and have the permission to do this
for themselves. So I said it out loud, and I
was petrified to say it, but I did. I said,
please don't tell Grandpa. She said, oh, I promise I won't.
Next morning, your grandfather would like to see you. I
(11:59):
go into his bedroom. He said, Grandpa, Mary said you
wanted to see me. He said, yes, I do. That's ridiculous,
I said, I asked Mary, please not to tell you Grandpa.
I knew this is what you'd say. He said, I mean,
it's ridiculous. You think i'd stop you? Oh? I said, really,
I didn't want to quote what he'd said years ago
about the business being filthy. Right, he says, so what
(12:20):
are you going to do about it? And all of
a sudden, Rosie I was called to task. No one
had ever asked me. Yeah, yeah, what's your plan? Stan?
I'm gonna take acting lessons? He said, really, how much
of those? Well? My cousin was an actress, and I
knew what she paid for her acting lessons. And I
think I said, there five hundred dollars for three months
(12:41):
and I had nothing. Row. I was broke. My job.
I was in as a secretary. The company had folded.
I'd just broken up a wedding engagement. You know. Then
my grandfather says, come and bring a car and I
run it into somebody else. You know, it's just everything.
I touched her, right, and he said, so all right,
now you have five hundred dollars. That was so much
(13:03):
to me, right, He said, so now what are you
going to do? What are you doing until you get
this acting job? I said, well, I'm going to get
another job. I'm a secretary. He said, fine, do you
want to go home today? I said, Grandpa, you invited
me for two weeks, so I'm here to visit. He said,
I'm asking you again, do you want to go home today?
I'd been there one night. Wow. But my grandfather bread
(13:25):
and raced thoroughbred's row and he knew when a Philly
was ready to run. And I'm asking again, you want
to go him today? I said yes, Grandpa. He said,
then have Mary gets your ticket. And as I flew
over La Row from Arizona, I looked down at La
and I I knew I didn't have a great body
(13:47):
or a great face or anything, but I knew I
would not fail. You were certain. I was certain. I
didn't know how I was going to do it. Yeah,
but my grandfather said go for it. And I guess
I just needed somebody's permission to do what I wanted. Right.
And a year later, yeah, a year later, and it's
(14:10):
a it's a great story from your book. Apparently they're
what complaints. And when you told me that title, I
almost paid myself laughing. But it's a wonderful book, and
I mentioned it it's a wonderful story. We're not going
to give it away here, but go buy the book
and read it. But listen, I had that certainty too
as a kid. I didn't understand how it was gonna
(14:31):
happen or what was gonna happen. But like in high school,
everybody signed my high school yearbook saying say hi to
Johnny Carson. I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be
on the Johnny Carson Show. I'm gonna be an actor.
I'm gonna be like I wanted to be Barber streisand
or Bette Midler. I know you did. And you know,
Barbara talked like me. She sounded like me. I mean,
not her singing voice, obviously, but she you know, she
(14:53):
looked and sounded like someone I would know from New York.
You know. Yea and Valerie Harper did that for me too,
that she was Rhoda and I was a kid at
home watching it going. I could be that. I could
totally be that. You know, you're an inspiration. I love
you verifying that story in telling your own because people
(15:13):
need to know dreams where he can come true. They
really can exactly. You don't have to know what it's
exactly going to look like, but you do need to
know how you feel when you get it right, and
those old days of showbiz, boy, it's not like it was.
You know, you climb the mountain and then you get
there and you go, wait a minute. I thought, honestly, Glessie,
(15:36):
and this is the truth, that there would be a
party every weekend at Barber streisand or Bette Midler's Malibu mansion,
and we'd all be invited and we'd all sing. And
now the closest I've ever come to that is going
to lizam and Ellie's parties that she used to have
when she was in New York. And all her furniture
(15:56):
was white, and all the drinks you could have had
to be year because she didn't want anything staining a furniture.
That's great. Yeah, And all these Broadway and showbiz legends
were there and there was a piano player and everybody
got up and sang, and it was pretty much what
I had dreamed of show business, you know, just like
you created it, brow, just like you created it in
(16:19):
your mind. Do you know that. I don't know if
this is in my book, but I was shy. I
know people who know me say, really, but I was
afraid to go to Hollywood parties. Yeah, you know. I
just thought I didn't have anything to say to all
these fancy people. And I said an interview someone in
my heyday said so you must get invited to a
(16:40):
lot of Hollywood parties, and I said, no, actually, nobody
invites me to parties. And do you remember Fred McMurray, Yes,
of course, right, he was a wonderful actor in the forties.
And my three sons, my three and my three sons
and Fred McMurray, yes, heard that I had never been
invited to a Hollywood part This is during Cagney and
(17:01):
Lazy Wow. And my pupicist calls me and said, Sharon,
fred McMurray heard you say that, and he wants to
invite you to a Hollywood party. Wow. How sweet is that?
And they're gonna be big, big, big, big old stars
from that era there and current people, do you know?
And I said, I'd love him, Please have him call me.
So he called me. They said, Sharon's Fred McMurray, and
(17:23):
I heard that you don't go to parties and you're
not invited to parties. My wife and I would like
to invite you to a big Hollywood party where they're
gonna be a lot of people that you watched when
you were young. Wow, Bro, I was so terrified that
I wouldn't have anything to say to anybody that I
lied and said I had to be in New York
and I sat home. Oh no, sat home. That's a heartbreaker. Yeah.
(17:49):
I sat home and I never went to the party.
I've never been to a Hollywood party and I can't
believe Fred McMurray did that. And I said no, and
I could tell he was really disappointed because it was
the heyday of Cagney and Lacy. So everybody in the
room were fans, right, you know, so we're right. The
truth was, they wanted me in the room as much
(18:10):
as I did to know, and I was too afraid,
which is hard to take into your head, right, Yeah,
it's hard to imagine that those people that you grew
up admiring would want to talk to you, talk to me.
I feel the same way. I'm on, Glessie, you know what,
let me tell you the truth. I presented twice at
(18:32):
the Academy Awards, or I was a guest of Richard
Dreyfus once, and I presented once and both times I
left as soon as I was done and went back
to the Four Seasons and opened my swag bag with
one of the cleaning ladies and gave her half the stuff,
you know. And I never went to the after parties.
I never I've never been. Like even when I hosted
(18:53):
the Grammys and I hosted the Tonys, I didn't go
to the party afterwards. I went home. Fuck me too, kids.
I was like, what am I going to say at parties?
You know, I don't do well in those kind of
social situations. It gives me nothing but anxiety, you know.
So I really haven't been to any either. I mean, listen,
I've been to dinner at Madonna's or at Madonna's New
(19:15):
Year's party. That's a pretty big Hollywood part is right.
But I also would feel like, you know, where are
the kids? Can I go hang out with your kids?
You know, like I felt more at ease than around Like,
oh my god, Lenny Kravitz says, there, oh my god,
Diana Ross, like it couldn't it boggled my mind? You know,
it could. It never became my life. I never wanted
(19:37):
my life to be that. I always knew I had
to stay grounded in the reality of who I am
from my childhood. It's either I knew that I had to,
or I wouldn't allow myself. I don't know why. I
really don't know why. I guess I wouldn't allow it.
I just thought nobody would find me interesting. I know
(19:58):
people find my characters. I'm very proud of the characters
I played, But it's you know, hiding in plain sight.
That's the actor's thing. You hide in plain sight. You
hied in these characters, and I played big characters. You know, Yes,
you sure do Emmy Award winning roles. I might add, yes,
(20:18):
thank you. I've never seen your Emmy's in your house.
Do you know that? Come on over. My husband has
the bad taste. They have them on display, the Emmies
and the good books in our living room. I was
raised in Hancock Park in LA. You didn't even have
a photo in the living room. Right now, they're all
these things here. It's nice. I loved the story in
(20:39):
your book. Apparently there were complaints where you talk about
you did a play and there happened to be someone
in the audience and there was a wardrobe malfunction. Yeah,
and it kind of launched your career. I'm so glad
you brought that up, because that is an example. If
I had a dream, right, remember I'm flying over LA.
(20:59):
I had a tree and I looked down and I
don't care. I don't know how it's going to happen
because I'm not a beauty. You know now, Clessie, can
we talk about that. Let's just stop. You always say this,
that you're not a beauty. You are a stunning beauty
and you always have well anyway, seriously, you don't think
of yourself that way. No, not at all. I think
(21:20):
my youth. There were times I've seen photos of me
and go, wow, you were pretty, but it's always a surprise.
Someone gave me one of those frames that flips pictures constantly. Yes, yes,
I love those. Yeah, and we've got filled up and
there are pictures popping up from that more. I'm going, whoa,
I back up. You can't get it safe d Yeah,
(21:41):
that's me. Yeah, And I'm glad I have them because
I'm glad to be proved wrong. You know. Sure, I'm
sorry I didn't realize it at the time. Yes, I
didn't get to enjoy it, but I don't care. I've
had wait, you had asked me something oh oh about
about going to the play and making a mistake. Yes,
tell that, tell the play story. Okay, this is part
(22:03):
of having a dream. I made a terror move sake
in my very first play. It only ran two nights.
We didn't charge anybody. It was It was terrible, but
it was the first time I'd ever been given anything.
And I played the heroine. It was a play within
a play, campy heroine. And I missed my queue. I
(22:24):
played this nurse with the long nurse's outfit, and I
missed my fucking que and I had my costume off.
I didn't know what to do, so I ran on
stage with my costume half off, just so I could
say my line on que not throw off the other actors. Well,
it looked like I, the nurse, had just been raped
by my patient. Backstage, the house fell apart. They thought
(22:48):
I was some genius comedian. And the man the next
Monday called me at my office where I was the secretarian,
said I saw you in your little play. Said I
think he'd be perfect for the lead in John Cassavetti's
new film, and I'd like you to meet Monique James,
the head of our talent department. I said, Okay, cut
the bullshit. Who is this wow, wow, he said, yeah,
(23:10):
and he wrote Monique James and I've seen the letters
saying she's a new She's a new blonde comedian. Who
was the paperwork? He said out It was a mistake.
I just screwed up. He thought I was a brilliant
comedian whose time he was impeccable? Right, And did you
ever meet Cassavetti's for that role? Never did? No, No,
I didn't meet Monnique James. I did a scene for
(23:32):
and she signed me for seven years that night. Wow,
turn your whole life around, change your whole world. Yes,
I said, thank you so much, and I went and
threw up. And I'm not a person who does that, right,
But I was in such shock and my dream had
come true. It's not like I thought she was wrong, right,
Do you know what I mean? I do. I wouldn't
(23:53):
argue with her. It's just, oh my god, how did
this happen? I've been to contract to the biggest television
you do in the world, and I haven't been in
front of a camera, right, So it was that RAN
don't know how it's going to appear, but you do
need to know how you're going to feel, right, And
how did you feel. I was so excited I was
(24:15):
having I was supposed to have Every Thursday, I had
dinner with my grandfather, and I was so excited I
forgot about him. I left him stranded at dinner and
he was so curious. He wasn't talking to me, and
so I said, please, you know, grandpa, give me another chance.
I got this contract. And so he agreed to see
(24:36):
me the next evening, and I brought my contract with me.
You know, I said, Grandpa, they're only offering me one
hundred and eighty six dollars a week. I make two
hundred dollars a week as the secretary. He said, let
me see this. I said, you know Lou wassonman. He said,
to know him very well. Let me see it. And
then he said, Sharon, do you want to be an actress? Yes, Grandpa,
(24:58):
then sign it, right. But I thought, actress has made
a lot of money. And he said, Sharon, you have
to be coming from a position of power from which
to negotiate. You are not smart. Man. Sign it and
let's see where you are next year. That's good, and
he died. He never saw me in film. What was
your first role that you got after signing that contract
(25:21):
at Universal. There's one show that always gives a new
contract player their first part. You don't even have to
read for it. It's Marcus Welby and they let every
new actor have a part on their show so you
can get your Screen Actress Guild card. How wonderful. Yeah,
so the first one I did was Marcus Welby. Do
(25:42):
you remember Laneaverdugo. Was she on Marcus Wellby? She played
the nurse. Yes, I do. She played Consuelo, the nurse.
I lost a wallet when I was a kid. I
was a little teenager and I lost a wallet and
I got it sent to me in my boarding school,
said Eve Ordugo. Elena Rduco was known in those days.
(26:04):
And I opened it. It was from Elena. So when
I got back from boardey school, I went to her
apartment and I thanked her for sending me my wallet.
And there I am sitting next to her. Years and
years later on the Marcus Willby said, and I said,
do you remember the little girl who lost her wallet? Wow?
I said, well I am she. Wow. That's wild, that
(26:26):
is wild. I know. I never missed Marcus WELLBMD with
Josh Broland right or what's his name, Jim Brooks, streisand
Hubby I know. Well then I was asked to come
back on Marcus Willbey a couple of years later and
play his love interest. And I just thanked. Really I
was so there was nothing between us, nothing, and I
(26:47):
got fired. No chemistry, no chemistry, wasn't he was. He
was nice and he was all right and when we
just nothing kind of like your your date was Steven Spielberg. Nothing.
I know. I wasn't his type, right, but he was
a nice man. He didn't talk to me much on
the date. They put you together, just like they would
they would link people up and say, you guys, go
(27:09):
out to dinner. He was like a photo opportunity, I guess,
you know, one of those things. When he needed a
date for the very first Oh it's that big night await.
John Ford was the first honoree and he needed a date,
I guess. And so my picture was sent. A lot
of pictures from Universal were sent to Richard Zanik over
(27:31):
a twentieth and Zanek looked at all the photos and
he picked me. So they dressed me up in black
velvet coat and he came to pick me up and
it was black tie and he opened up his tuxedo
and had a Roadrunner T shirt on. He says, beat me.
It's the first thing he ever said to me. Did
(27:52):
you ever see him after? And have you seen him since?
Never said him again? I mean I've seen him in passing.
I didn't. I saw him at a party like ten
years fifteen years later, and whatever to him? I said, Steve,
And I'm sure, guess it's so nice to see you.
I wondered what had ever happened to you and in
the industry, you know, if you'd ever made it? I did.
(28:12):
Poor guy just needs a break. He was a nice
man and just there was no chemistry, right, as if
there was no chemistry with James Roland. I had hard
time hooking me up man, right, which is hard to believe,
but that's true. You have a wonderful kind of spiritual
belief life. You have a metaphysical perspective on the world,
(28:34):
your life, manifesting things. You have always studied this. When
did that begin? Ever? Since I've known you thirty years now,
you've been well, it was before Cagney and Lacy, it
was almost forty years. You're absolutely right. My foray into
spirituality was my best friend Judithan and I used to
do the Luigi board the spirituality me and Jackie too.
(29:00):
He did it, yeah, exactly. God knows what we were
bringing in, but that thing did fly without our touching it. Yes,
the spirits do appear, but they're probably not the level
that you would want hanging out with you. So then
we heard about this metaphysical teacher friend named Lazaris. So
(29:21):
when we had to interview to get into his class,
and I didn't get accepted, but Judithan did. And then
I was told that Lazaris, who was the teacher, felt
that I wasn't ready, so he wanted Judithan to go
before me. So she came back and she called me
and I mean, she and I are just trouble. Do
you know we're fun? And she very seriously said, Sharon Marguerite,
(29:46):
it's going to change your life. WHOA, Okay, So I
got on a plane to go have my life changed.
All right? Right, it was still, I mean, it was
not hard, but it was. And I understood what he
was saying. I just wanted to believe it was true.
Right then I do it to know, right right, When
(30:08):
we're children, we can blame all kinds of people, but
you know it's an adult. He said, it's you. You
get to do it. And after what I believed him,
and it became exciting because you know what, Row, I
could stop blaming, right I except blaming my grandmother who
you read about in my book. Yes I did, and
I was so relieved I could let her off the hook.
(30:31):
I'm an adult now right onward on it. From now on,
it's my ride. It's my exactly, either I choose to
create it or not. And if I don't get what
I want, and I have to sort of look at
what it is that is the payoff for me, and
you're not get it right. I don't mean to be
lecturing you or anything. It's not a lecture at all.
I find it fascinating, I really do. And I think
(30:51):
it's kept you so centered in your life and your beliefs.
I know you've been through some tremendous loss. I know
your best friend Judith that you speak, she passed away,
and how do you survive that? And now that I'm
going to be sixty one and I've had my best
friend Jackie since I'm three, and we're like fused at
the hip, and I can't imagine what will happen when
(31:14):
one of us goes for the other one? You know, well,
I think time, first of all, is the great healer.
But you two have to have an understanding and a
knowledge that you are always together. Right, one of you
may go before the other, but it doesn't mean they're
going to leave you. Because I believe you can call
(31:36):
her in. Yeah, I believe she will always be there
for you. Yeah, she always has. If in the physical
form you or her, you will always be together. How
old were you when you met Judith? You're a kid
birth birth. It put us in a grib together. She's
a month older than I am, and our parents were
best friends, and we were you born a month apart,
(31:59):
and so they put us in a grip together. As
I said her funeral, I fell in love and I
never recovered. She was beaten to me sometimes, but I
you know, I care. I just took it because I
did love her. And you were estranged at the end,
I remember, right we were. But um, yeah, I got rough.
She got cancer, and she did some stuff that wasn't nice.
(32:22):
But she fought ten years with that cancer, right, and
the day that she heard from the doctrine that the
fight was over. You know, there was no hope. Right.
She came to the one with me and she leaned
over and she whispered my ear because her daughter was
present and my niece Bridge, you know, Bridgie, and um.
(32:42):
She said, I'm sorry, I can't keep my promise to
grow old with you. And I thought, what I say
now is really important. And I turned to her. This
was twenty years ago, and I said, I think sixteen
(33:02):
years is a fucking good run, don't you. Yeah, she
lit up, and she said, it is, it is, it is.
You don't fear dying for yourself, do you? No? No,
But I'd like to do it in bed. You know,
I don't want I'm going to be hit by a truck,
you know, I'd like I'd like to do it peacefully
(33:25):
and with people I love. You're like, I know I'm
in an age, but I think I'm gonna live forever.
But I know I should be saying to all the
people I love the things that I want to say
to them at the end. But I don't. But it's
more of it to go around and saying this. And
if I never get a chance to tell you, yeah,
but roe, if I never get a chance to tell you.
(33:45):
I love you and you have changed my life. I'm
saying that to you, Rosie O'Donnell. Well, thank you, Sharon
gless You've done the same for me. Oh, thank you.
You have a wonderful way of keeping close and connected
to the people you love. You fall in love and
you don't fall out. I don't. I'm still in love
with you. Well, diddo, honey, right back at Yanks. I'm
(34:06):
not kidding. It's been since I saw you on Cagney
and Lacy. I was sitting in Komac Along Island on
the Levitts plaid brown couch with a TV that had
a broken turn signal, and we had wires from the
hangars to to make it come in good like it
shocks me, you know, and everybody I know, all the
(34:29):
girls who were on the softball team and the basketball team,
they only had eyes for Glessie. They did not care
for Mary Beth Lacey. Just let me tell you right now.
The men all were in love with Tyno, and all
the lesbians wanted you. Yeah. Oh, should we tell the
story as we go? Sure? If you want me to,
I don't mind sit in the book, go ahead, tell okay,
(34:49):
Row and I had been friends rowe came to do
queer as Folk with us, and we got really close, yes,
and then you invited me on on those cruises or
not or a relationship just get blossoming and blossoming, and
I don't know what happened, but you just loved me
for who I was. I had this dream about you
(35:12):
one night and we were really really like really really
close intimate friends and you're Rosie O'Donnell. And in my
dream it was like, I know, but you know, in
my dream it was like I loved her so much
and I've never had a friend like this ever in
my dream. And the next night you were and I
were having dinner, and I told you that I had
(35:33):
this dream and then how much I really did love you?
And did you think maybe that you and I could
you know? Yeah? And before I finished the sentence, you
were nice enough to say, oh, Glassie, you are so straight.
Stop it it's true, you're so straight. I mean, you
don't think, no, I don't think. I oh, I wish
for many years you would be gay. You know, truth,
(35:55):
such nerve, you got to know it took such nerve
to say that, but you just laughed. Honey. You just laughed.
I told you a joke. I said, Hey, if you've
only taken the George Washington Bridge into New York City,
there's no reason to try the Holland Tunnel. You started laughing,
and then it was over. But listen, I've told everyone
(36:17):
that story, and I don't let it, you know, I
don't let it get rusty and mind. I proudly tell it.
I proudly tell it. I misunderstood, but I still love
you very much. I love you too, honey, And you're
the best in the book. Apparently there have been complaints.
It's very good title, and it's a wonderful book, and
I love I love any little morsel of information I
(36:40):
can get about you, and who you are in real
life is as glorious as you are as an actress.
And I'm proud to know you. Glessie. Thank you. Do
you want to know how the title happened? Yeah, tell
me tell me how the title happened Because during Cagnet
and they see I was playing a drunk, first famous
drunk on television, right, and we found out that Sharon's
(37:03):
a drunk. So I was being hused anyway, So I
checked into rehab and it was a big scandal. The
press really went after it, and I was locked up
in there. Wood is the twenty eight D program. I
was there for seven weeks, just terrible press. And when
I got out, a friend of mine said, huh, you
were in Hazelton. It's the Harvard of the rehabs, you know. Yeah.
(37:27):
I said, yeah, I was. She said why were you
in a time? And I just came out of my mouth.
I said, apparently there were complaints. Varney laughed and I
started laughing. And it's always been anything about me. It's
apparently there were complaints. Sometimes I miss it. Well, Honey,
(37:48):
I have no complaints about you. I have zero. In
the thirty years of loving you, I have zero complaints.
I love you too. There you go. Thank you for
having me on your show. Thank you for doing this.
This is the very first one. You broke my little virgin,
your chry. You finally did it, Glad say, there you go,
(38:30):
And now it's time for some questions that you guys
have sent in. Hi, Rosie, this is Tinkermazelle, and first
of all, I want to tell you happy birthday. Thank you.
I think it's cool that you're giving us a birthday
present on your birthday that it's very sweet. Congrats on
your podcast. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask
(38:51):
you if you were friends with Kirsty Alli, and if
you were, could you tell us a little bit about
friendship with her. Thanks, thank you so much. Thanks for
your questions and comments and keep them coming. I wasn't
really friendly with Kirsty Alli. I got to know her
a little bit when my show was first on. She
(39:13):
talked to me a little bit about scientology and was
very interested in that. Now I have other friends like
Tom Cruise, who has never brought it up to me once.
You know, there are other people that I know who
are in scientology, and Kirsty was one who brought it
up to me. So we never really connected, I think
(39:35):
on that level, which might have been you know, disappointing
to her. I can't really speak for her, but you know,
she was such a talented actress, and she was so
funny on Cheers and such a character and great on
game shows and the talk show guest. You know, she
was really wonderful. I didn't get to know her very well,
but I did name my son Parker after her husband,
(39:58):
her first husband, Parker Stephens. So there's my Kirsty Alley connection,
but love to her family and friends. That was a
woman gone too soon and gosh so quickly. I remain
your host, Rosie o'donnald. Thank you all for tuning in
to this premiere episode. I really do appreciate it. Every Tuesday,
(40:19):
we're going to drop a new one next week. Rory Kennedy.
Please watch her documentary Volcano Rescue at Vacari and it's
on Netflix and it's totally worth watching. It'll uplift your
spirits and remind you of how resilient humans are. It's
beautiful and Rory Kennedy will be our guest next week.
(40:42):
Here on onward. Thank you everybody. I really appreciate it,
and I'm gonna have myself a great birthday. Hey on
TikTok at Rosie on Twitter, at Rosie at Instagram at
Rosie and right here on iHeart Onward with Rosie o'donnald
Well, hi everybody, and welcome to Onward, my very first podcast,
on my very first episode. On this my sixty first birthday.
That's right, I am sixty wonderful years old, and it's
hard for me to believe. Well, thank you for come
and catching this wave with me. The goal is we
will be together for about an hour at a time
(00:38):
each week and we'll share some human wisdom of hope, inspiration,
and a little humor, a little comedy, a little a
little love, people, just a little bit of love. You
can send me your thoughts and questions by voice memo,
and it took me a while to figure out how
you do that. You make a voice memo on your
phone and then you send it to me via email,
(01:00):
and my email is Onward Rosie at gmail dot com.
Once again, Onward Rosie at gmail dot com, and I
will take your voice memos and we will answer some
of them right here on this podcast. So Onward. My
first conversation is with Sharon Gless, a true friend of mine.
(01:22):
I love her, I love her, I love her. We
became friends many years ago when I was doing a
guest spot on Queer as Folk and when they called
and asked me would you be on the show. I said,
of course, I will be on that show, and you
must write in a kiss between my character and Sharon
(01:42):
gless And I'm happy to say that they did exactly that.
I kissed her, and I've never been the same. That's
all I can say. We've remained really good friends in
each other's lives for the last thirty years, and I'm
so grateful for it. I really am. She's the kind
of friend who just shows up. I was in San
(02:02):
Francisco and couldn't get out of the hospital with a
friend who was quite ill, and two weeks we were
stuck there and one day there was a text on
my phone and she said, do you want some iced tea?
On my text, I'm like, Glessie. She's like, yeah, you
(02:23):
were crying so much last night on the phone. I
knew I had to show up, and she did. She
was sitting there outside of my room holding an iced
tea in a Starbucks croissant, and she gave me the
biggest hug and I cried like a baby, and she
took control and got us a flight home on a
ambulance plane, and she was amazing. I can tell you that,
(02:47):
you know, if you're ever in need, Sharon Gless will
show up for you, and she has shown up for me,
and I will continue to show up for her because
I truly truly adore her, I really do, and I
hope that you will too. So we're going to kick
off this podcast with a good friend of mine, somebody
who you know and love. I'll be back with Sharon
glass All right, well, welcome to my first podcast of
(03:32):
Onward with Rosie o'donald. You know how I got this name, Glassie? No,
I was like, you know, I turned sixty and I'm
looking around and going, what do I have to do?
What have I left to do? What can I possibly will?
You know what? Throw everything that happened already out and
now from here onward. I love that so much. I
think I just programmed you into my life again because
(03:56):
I'm about to turn eighty. I know, honey, isn't that amazing?
And I need something to say when I make that turn.
That's it. Onward. You know what I'm doing? What are
you gonna be doing? I'm doing something I always wanted
to do. I'm crossing the Atlantic, crossing the Atlantic on
the q E two, and I'm having all my friends
(04:17):
meet me at the pier when I get to London.
Oh my god, how wonderful is that going to be?
Is it the best? Got a fancy suite? Yes? And
as Barney going with no, I told him he couldn't come,
and I thought, well, what if I can't move around?
You know, what if something happens. So my friend Dawn
says she'll come with me, but Barney's going to be
(04:38):
I said, I want him at the other end to
be there to greet me. I want my own room,
I want I just want everything all for me, good
for you. Can you believe that you're going to be
eighty and that I'm going to be sixty one? I
can't believe you're gonna be sixty one. It's hard for
me to believe sometimes. And I mean, I know this
as it's just a number. It isn't just a number.
(05:00):
I've been around a long time. But I don't feel it.
You don't look it. Oh, please see I do. I'd
just have a light on here. No, you don't, honey,
you think that's the face of eighty. Sharon Gless is
the new face of eighty. All these eighty year olds
are gonna be jumping off our bridge. No, you look
beautiful and you always have, you always have at eighty.
I don't know how you do it. You defy the years. Well,
(05:21):
I'm still standing, So I'm gonna do this, And thank
you so much for that tiff of onward, because I
don't need something to go forward. I just need my will,
you know, my will and my soul and exactly and
my dreams. My dreams have always sustained me. So I
think I have to get some new dreams. That's important.
(05:41):
When you were that little kid growing up in La,
did you dream all this when you were that little
rich girl in the Hollywood royalty family. Apparently you did that.
You manifested it all happened. Yeah, I did dream it.
I didn't know how it quite manifest, as you said,
But I didn't dream of being in this industry when
(06:03):
I was dreaming it. I didn't even know about television.
Really was all movies. I do remember sitting in front
of the TV row when TV's first came out, with
my nose pressed up against it, and watching the Oscars. Yes,
with that song god da da Da Da Dada, that's
what they used to play to open the Oscars every year,
(06:25):
and you'd see Grace Kelly and Elizabeth Taylor in these
gorgeous gowns, and it was another world. That is, do
you quite like that now? And I lived in la
where they had the Cleague lights, you know, going across
the sky right but the pears, and I used to
sit out on the porch and watch it. And I
didn't know quite how my dream would take form, but
(06:49):
I knew I wanted something special. And I've been very
blessed out of life, yes, and I'm yeah. I was
willing to put in right. You know. I didn't need
things just hand it to me. I wanted to do
I wanted to do it. I wanted to work. I
didn't know that I wouldn't have the good fortune I've had,
(07:10):
but I knew how i'd want to feel. And that's
very important any of your listeners. If you have dreams,
you don't need to know what it's going to look like,
but you do know how you want to feel when
you get it. So true, it is true. I always
had the dream of show business the same way that
you did. I didn't have a famous grandfather, I didn't
(07:32):
know anyone in show business. I didn't really know how
I was going to get to Hollywood. I hadn't been
on a plane, you know. I dreamed this before I
had been on a plane, you know. But I had
a destination in mind. I had a place that I
thought I really would end up in. It's not like
I wanted to be in, and I just thought, Oh,
that's where I'm going. I'm going towards that. We were
(07:55):
just sitting here waiting for your row. We were just
sitting here waiting for you. And that's the true I
wanted you to tell everyone who your grandfather was. Oh,
we wouldn't mean anything to anyone today, but well maybe
it does, Okay. His name was Neil S. McCarthy, because
there he has a son another one, but he was
Neil S. McCarthy. And he was, for sure all a
(08:18):
very very poor boy from Phoenix, Arizona. His father drove
the stage coach and was a raging alcoholic. Wow, but
he went to law school. They put himself through law
school and he came to Los Angeles and he ended
up being the biggest, most famous attorney in the golden
days of Hollywood. He was Howard Hughes attorney sees would
(08:38):
be De Mills, Louispi, mayors, yes, and on and on
and did these people like floated and out of your world?
Did you ever see or were you around or no?
Mister Hughes lived down the street from us, but I
never saw him. My mother met him several times. She
used to have to entertain him. When Grandpa wasn't home.
Mister Hughes would come to the house. My mother's hefted
(09:01):
entertain he called the rats. Was he weird by that?
And was he sort of out of it? Ages? Did
like kids? I don't think I never met him. I
asked my grandfather what he was like, and when my
grandfather used an adjective, he was eccentric, That's all he
would say. He was a very good, loyal attorney and
would never tell stories. Right. They looked in my grandfather's
(09:25):
safe at home for the final will. Remember when Hughes
nobody could find the final will. Yeah, they did find
what they thought was the final will and my grandfather's safe.
My grandfather already died. But anyway, when Grandpa died, I
was at his house. They had this thing, you know,
after the funeral, and this huge guardinia tree, not a bush,
but a huge guardina tree had been delivered in course
(09:49):
being nosy, I just opened up the card and had
just said Howard Hughes. Wow. But my grandfather had a
salad named after him that he is very famous at
the Polo Lounge. It's called the McCarthy chop salad. Was
he or your parents either one of them interested in
you becoming an act? Never? No, not one. I mean
(10:10):
I came from a family where they went to the theater,
but you don't get on stage and perform right. It
just wasn't done. It was a large hurdle for me
to get over. But I believe so much that something
wonderful was going to happen. I didn't know what form
it would take. But as I said in my book,
I was at my grandfather's house one evening. Everything was
(10:33):
going wrong in my life, and he asked me to
bring his car to Arizona. So I did, and I
rearended somebody on the way in his car. It was
just those times, you know. And the first night I
was there, his new wife said, what do you want
to do with your life, Sharon. You're twenty six years old.
(10:54):
You have nothing to show for it. It's a little rough.
I was quiet. She said, just say it. Just give
it air, just say it doesn't matter whether you think
you can have it or not. What is it? And
out of my mouth with a few champagnees in me.
I said, I want to be an actress. She said,
(11:16):
so do it. I said, I'm too old, Mary, I'm
twenty six years old. She said, I was under contract
to MGM when I was your age. Hereon. I was terrible,
only last a year. But you can have it, So
what do I said, I can't because Grandpa is against
me going into show business. Even though I was twenty six,
I still did sort of what I was told by
(11:38):
my grandparents. I mean, I'm saying this hoping that people
will hear this and have the permission to do this
for themselves. So I said it out loud, and I
was petrified to say it, but I did. I said,
please don't tell Grandpa. She said, oh, I promise I won't.
Next morning, your grandfather would like to see you. I
(11:59):
go into his bedroom. He said, Grandpa, Mary said you
wanted to see me. He said, yes, I do. That's ridiculous,
I said, I asked Mary, please not to tell you Grandpa.
I knew this is what you'd say. He said, I mean,
it's ridiculous. You think i'd stop you? Oh? I said, really,
I didn't want to quote what he'd said years ago
about the business being filthy. Right, he says, so what
(12:20):
are you going to do about it? And all of
a sudden, Rosie I was called to task. No one
had ever asked me. Yeah, yeah, what's your plan? Stan?
I'm gonna take acting lessons? He said, really, how much
of those? Well? My cousin was an actress, and I
knew what she paid for her acting lessons. And I
think I said, there five hundred dollars for three months
(12:41):
and I had nothing. Row. I was broke. My job.
I was in as a secretary. The company had folded.
I'd just broken up a wedding engagement. You know. Then
my grandfather says, come and bring a car and I
run it into somebody else. You know, it's just everything.
I touched her, right, and he said, so all right,
now you have five hundred dollars. That was so much
(13:03):
to me, right, He said, so now what are you
going to do? What are you doing until you get
this acting job? I said, well, I'm going to get
another job. I'm a secretary. He said, fine, do you
want to go home today? I said, Grandpa, you invited
me for two weeks, so I'm here to visit. He said,
I'm asking you again, do you want to go home today?
I'd been there one night. Wow. But my grandfather bread
(13:25):
and raced thoroughbred's row and he knew when a Philly
was ready to run. And I'm asking again, you want
to go him today? I said yes, Grandpa. He said,
then have Mary gets your ticket. And as I flew
over La Row from Arizona, I looked down at La
and I I knew I didn't have a great body
(13:47):
or a great face or anything, but I knew I
would not fail. You were certain. I was certain. I
didn't know how I was going to do it. Yeah,
but my grandfather said go for it. And I guess
I just needed somebody's permission to do what I wanted. Right.
And a year later, yeah, a year later, and it's
(14:10):
a it's a great story from your book. Apparently they're
what complaints. And when you told me that title, I
almost paid myself laughing. But it's a wonderful book, and
I mentioned it it's a wonderful story. We're not going
to give it away here, but go buy the book
and read it. But listen, I had that certainty too
as a kid. I didn't understand how it was gonna
(14:31):
happen or what was gonna happen. But like in high school,
everybody signed my high school yearbook saying say hi to
Johnny Carson. I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be
on the Johnny Carson Show. I'm gonna be an actor.
I'm gonna be like I wanted to be Barber streisand
or Bette Midler. I know you did. And you know,
Barbara talked like me. She sounded like me. I mean,
not her singing voice, obviously, but she you know, she
(14:53):
looked and sounded like someone I would know from New York.
You know. Yea and Valerie Harper did that for me too,
that she was Rhoda and I was a kid at
home watching it going. I could be that. I could
totally be that. You know, you're an inspiration. I love
you verifying that story in telling your own because people
(15:13):
need to know dreams where he can come true. They
really can exactly. You don't have to know what it's
exactly going to look like, but you do need to
know how you feel when you get it right, and
those old days of showbiz, boy, it's not like it was.
You know, you climb the mountain and then you get
there and you go, wait a minute. I thought, honestly, Glessie,
(15:36):
and this is the truth, that there would be a
party every weekend at Barber streisand or Bette Midler's Malibu mansion,
and we'd all be invited and we'd all sing. And
now the closest I've ever come to that is going
to lizam and Ellie's parties that she used to have
when she was in New York. And all her furniture
(15:56):
was white, and all the drinks you could have had
to be year because she didn't want anything staining a furniture.
That's great. Yeah, And all these Broadway and showbiz legends
were there and there was a piano player and everybody
got up and sang, and it was pretty much what
I had dreamed of show business, you know, just like
you created it, brow, just like you created it in
(16:19):
your mind. Do you know that. I don't know if
this is in my book, but I was shy. I
know people who know me say, really, but I was
afraid to go to Hollywood parties. Yeah, you know. I
just thought I didn't have anything to say to all
these fancy people. And I said an interview someone in
my heyday said so you must get invited to a
(16:40):
lot of Hollywood parties, and I said, no, actually, nobody
invites me to parties. And do you remember Fred McMurray, Yes,
of course, right, he was a wonderful actor in the forties.
And my three sons, my three and my three sons
and Fred McMurray, yes, heard that I had never been
invited to a Hollywood part This is during Cagney and
(17:01):
Lazy Wow. And my pupicist calls me and said, Sharon,
fred McMurray heard you say that, and he wants to
invite you to a Hollywood party. Wow. How sweet is that?
And they're gonna be big, big, big, big old stars
from that era there and current people, do you know?
And I said, I'd love him, Please have him call me.
So he called me. They said, Sharon's Fred McMurray, and
(17:23):
I heard that you don't go to parties and you're
not invited to parties. My wife and I would like
to invite you to a big Hollywood party where they're
gonna be a lot of people that you watched when
you were young. Wow, Bro, I was so terrified that
I wouldn't have anything to say to anybody that I
lied and said I had to be in New York
and I sat home. Oh no, sat home. That's a heartbreaker. Yeah.
(17:49):
I sat home and I never went to the party.
I've never been to a Hollywood party and I can't
believe Fred McMurray did that. And I said no, and
I could tell he was really disappointed because it was
the heyday of Cagney and Lacy. So everybody in the
room were fans, right, you know, so we're right. The
truth was, they wanted me in the room as much
(18:10):
as I did to know, and I was too afraid,
which is hard to take into your head, right, Yeah,
it's hard to imagine that those people that you grew
up admiring would want to talk to you, talk to me.
I feel the same way. I'm on, Glessie, you know what,
let me tell you the truth. I presented twice at
(18:32):
the Academy Awards, or I was a guest of Richard
Dreyfus once, and I presented once and both times I
left as soon as I was done and went back
to the Four Seasons and opened my swag bag with
one of the cleaning ladies and gave her half the stuff,
you know. And I never went to the after parties.
I never I've never been. Like even when I hosted
(18:53):
the Grammys and I hosted the Tonys, I didn't go
to the party afterwards. I went home. Fuck me too, kids.
I was like, what am I going to say at parties?
You know, I don't do well in those kind of
social situations. It gives me nothing but anxiety, you know.
So I really haven't been to any either. I mean, listen,
I've been to dinner at Madonna's or at Madonna's New
(19:15):
Year's party. That's a pretty big Hollywood part is right.
But I also would feel like, you know, where are
the kids? Can I go hang out with your kids?
You know, like I felt more at ease than around Like,
oh my god, Lenny Kravitz says, there, oh my god,
Diana Ross, like it couldn't it boggled my mind? You know,
it could. It never became my life. I never wanted
(19:37):
my life to be that. I always knew I had
to stay grounded in the reality of who I am
from my childhood. It's either I knew that I had to,
or I wouldn't allow myself. I don't know why. I
really don't know why. I guess I wouldn't allow it.
I just thought nobody would find me interesting. I know
(19:58):
people find my characters. I'm very proud of the characters
I played, But it's you know, hiding in plain sight.
That's the actor's thing. You hide in plain sight. You
hied in these characters, and I played big characters. You know, Yes,
you sure do Emmy Award winning roles. I might add, yes,
(20:18):
thank you. I've never seen your Emmy's in your house.
Do you know that? Come on over. My husband has
the bad taste. They have them on display, the Emmies
and the good books in our living room. I was
raised in Hancock Park in LA. You didn't even have
a photo in the living room. Right now, they're all
these things here. It's nice. I loved the story in
(20:39):
your book. Apparently there were complaints where you talk about
you did a play and there happened to be someone
in the audience and there was a wardrobe malfunction. Yeah,
and it kind of launched your career. I'm so glad
you brought that up, because that is an example. If
I had a dream, right, remember I'm flying over LA.
(20:59):
I had a tree and I looked down and I
don't care. I don't know how it's going to happen
because I'm not a beauty. You know now, Clessie, can
we talk about that. Let's just stop. You always say this,
that you're not a beauty. You are a stunning beauty
and you always have well anyway, seriously, you don't think
of yourself that way. No, not at all. I think
(21:20):
my youth. There were times I've seen photos of me
and go, wow, you were pretty, but it's always a surprise.
Someone gave me one of those frames that flips pictures constantly. Yes, yes,
I love those. Yeah, and we've got filled up and
there are pictures popping up from that more. I'm going, whoa,
I back up. You can't get it safe d Yeah,
(21:41):
that's me. Yeah, And I'm glad I have them because
I'm glad to be proved wrong. You know. Sure, I'm
sorry I didn't realize it at the time. Yes, I
didn't get to enjoy it, but I don't care. I've
had wait, you had asked me something oh oh about
about going to the play and making a mistake. Yes,
tell that, tell the play story. Okay, this is part
(22:03):
of having a dream. I made a terror move sake
in my very first play. It only ran two nights.
We didn't charge anybody. It was It was terrible, but
it was the first time I'd ever been given anything.
And I played the heroine. It was a play within
a play, campy heroine. And I missed my queue. I
(22:24):
played this nurse with the long nurse's outfit, and I
missed my fucking que and I had my costume off.
I didn't know what to do, so I ran on
stage with my costume half off, just so I could
say my line on que not throw off the other actors. Well,
it looked like I, the nurse, had just been raped
by my patient. Backstage, the house fell apart. They thought
(22:48):
I was some genius comedian. And the man the next
Monday called me at my office where I was the secretarian,
said I saw you in your little play. Said I
think he'd be perfect for the lead in John Cassavetti's
new film, and I'd like you to meet Monique James,
the head of our talent department. I said, Okay, cut
the bullshit. Who is this wow, wow, he said, yeah,
(23:10):
and he wrote Monique James and I've seen the letters
saying she's a new She's a new blonde comedian. Who
was the paperwork? He said out It was a mistake.
I just screwed up. He thought I was a brilliant
comedian whose time he was impeccable? Right, And did you
ever meet Cassavetti's for that role? Never did? No, No,
I didn't meet Monnique James. I did a scene for
(23:32):
and she signed me for seven years that night. Wow,
turn your whole life around, change your whole world. Yes,
I said, thank you so much, and I went and
threw up. And I'm not a person who does that, right,
But I was in such shock and my dream had
come true. It's not like I thought she was wrong, right,
Do you know what I mean? I do. I wouldn't
(23:53):
argue with her. It's just, oh my god, how did
this happen? I've been to contract to the biggest television
you do in the world, and I haven't been in
front of a camera, right, So it was that RAN
don't know how it's going to appear, but you do
need to know how you're going to feel, right, And
how did you feel. I was so excited I was
(24:15):
having I was supposed to have Every Thursday, I had
dinner with my grandfather, and I was so excited I
forgot about him. I left him stranded at dinner and
he was so curious. He wasn't talking to me, and
so I said, please, you know, grandpa, give me another chance.
I got this contract. And so he agreed to see
(24:36):
me the next evening, and I brought my contract with me.
You know, I said, Grandpa, they're only offering me one
hundred and eighty six dollars a week. I make two
hundred dollars a week as the secretary. He said, let
me see this. I said, you know Lou wassonman. He said,
to know him very well. Let me see it. And
then he said, Sharon, do you want to be an actress? Yes, Grandpa,
(24:58):
then sign it, right. But I thought, actress has made
a lot of money. And he said, Sharon, you have
to be coming from a position of power from which
to negotiate. You are not smart. Man. Sign it and
let's see where you are next year. That's good, and
he died. He never saw me in film. What was
your first role that you got after signing that contract
(25:21):
at Universal. There's one show that always gives a new
contract player their first part. You don't even have to
read for it. It's Marcus Welby and they let every
new actor have a part on their show so you
can get your Screen Actress Guild card. How wonderful. Yeah,
so the first one I did was Marcus Welby. Do
(25:42):
you remember Laneaverdugo. Was she on Marcus Wellby? She played
the nurse. Yes, I do. She played Consuelo, the nurse.
I lost a wallet when I was a kid. I
was a little teenager and I lost a wallet and
I got it sent to me in my boarding school,
said Eve Ordugo. Elena Rduco was known in those days.
(26:04):
And I opened it. It was from Elena. So when
I got back from boardey school, I went to her
apartment and I thanked her for sending me my wallet.
And there I am sitting next to her. Years and
years later on the Marcus Willby said, and I said,
do you remember the little girl who lost her wallet? Wow?
I said, well I am she. Wow. That's wild, that
(26:26):
is wild. I know. I never missed Marcus WELLBMD with
Josh Broland right or what's his name, Jim Brooks, streisand
Hubby I know. Well then I was asked to come
back on Marcus Willbey a couple of years later and
play his love interest. And I just thanked. Really I
was so there was nothing between us, nothing, and I
(26:47):
got fired. No chemistry, no chemistry, wasn't he was. He
was nice and he was all right and when we
just nothing kind of like your your date was Steven Spielberg. Nothing.
I know. I wasn't his type, right, but he was
a nice man. He didn't talk to me much on
the date. They put you together, just like they would
they would link people up and say, you guys, go
(27:09):
out to dinner. He was like a photo opportunity, I guess,
you know, one of those things. When he needed a
date for the very first Oh it's that big night await.
John Ford was the first honoree and he needed a date,
I guess. And so my picture was sent. A lot
of pictures from Universal were sent to Richard Zanik over
(27:31):
a twentieth and Zanek looked at all the photos and
he picked me. So they dressed me up in black
velvet coat and he came to pick me up and
it was black tie and he opened up his tuxedo
and had a Roadrunner T shirt on. He says, beat me.
It's the first thing he ever said to me. Did
(27:52):
you ever see him after? And have you seen him since?
Never said him again? I mean I've seen him in passing.
I didn't. I saw him at a party like ten
years fifteen years later, and whatever to him? I said, Steve,
And I'm sure, guess it's so nice to see you.
I wondered what had ever happened to you and in
the industry, you know, if you'd ever made it? I did.
(28:12):
Poor guy just needs a break. He was a nice
man and just there was no chemistry, right, as if
there was no chemistry with James Roland. I had hard
time hooking me up man, right, which is hard to believe,
but that's true. You have a wonderful kind of spiritual
belief life. You have a metaphysical perspective on the world,
(28:34):
your life, manifesting things. You have always studied this. When
did that begin? Ever? Since I've known you thirty years now,
you've been well, it was before Cagney and Lacy, it
was almost forty years. You're absolutely right. My foray into
spirituality was my best friend Judithan and I used to
do the Luigi board the spirituality me and Jackie too.
(29:00):
He did it, yeah, exactly. God knows what we were
bringing in, but that thing did fly without our touching it. Yes,
the spirits do appear, but they're probably not the level
that you would want hanging out with you. So then
we heard about this metaphysical teacher friend named Lazaris. So
(29:21):
when we had to interview to get into his class,
and I didn't get accepted, but Judithan did. And then
I was told that Lazaris, who was the teacher, felt
that I wasn't ready, so he wanted Judithan to go
before me. So she came back and she called me
and I mean, she and I are just trouble. Do
you know we're fun? And she very seriously said, Sharon Marguerite,
(29:46):
it's going to change your life. WHOA, Okay, So I
got on a plane to go have my life changed.
All right? Right, it was still, I mean, it was
not hard, but it was. And I understood what he
was saying. I just wanted to believe it was true.
Right then I do it to know, right right, When
(30:08):
we're children, we can blame all kinds of people, but
you know it's an adult. He said, it's you. You
get to do it. And after what I believed him,
and it became exciting because you know what, Row, I
could stop blaming, right I except blaming my grandmother who
you read about in my book. Yes I did, and
I was so relieved I could let her off the hook.
(30:31):
I'm an adult now right onward on it. From now on,
it's my ride. It's my exactly, either I choose to
create it or not. And if I don't get what
I want, and I have to sort of look at
what it is that is the payoff for me, and
you're not get it right. I don't mean to be
lecturing you or anything. It's not a lecture at all.
I find it fascinating, I really do. And I think
(30:51):
it's kept you so centered in your life and your beliefs.
I know you've been through some tremendous loss. I know
your best friend Judith that you speak, she passed away,
and how do you survive that? And now that I'm
going to be sixty one and I've had my best
friend Jackie since I'm three, and we're like fused at
the hip, and I can't imagine what will happen when
(31:14):
one of us goes for the other one? You know, well,
I think time, first of all, is the great healer.
But you two have to have an understanding and a
knowledge that you are always together. Right, one of you
may go before the other, but it doesn't mean they're
going to leave you. Because I believe you can call
(31:36):
her in. Yeah, I believe she will always be there
for you. Yeah, she always has. If in the physical
form you or her, you will always be together. How
old were you when you met Judith? You're a kid
birth birth. It put us in a grib together. She's
a month older than I am, and our parents were
best friends, and we were you born a month apart,
(31:59):
and so they put us in a grip together. As
I said her funeral, I fell in love and I
never recovered. She was beaten to me sometimes, but I
you know, I care. I just took it because I
did love her. And you were estranged at the end,
I remember, right we were. But um, yeah, I got rough.
She got cancer, and she did some stuff that wasn't nice.
(32:22):
But she fought ten years with that cancer, right, and
the day that she heard from the doctrine that the
fight was over. You know, there was no hope. Right.
She came to the one with me and she leaned
over and she whispered my ear because her daughter was
present and my niece Bridge, you know, Bridgie, and um.
(32:42):
She said, I'm sorry, I can't keep my promise to
grow old with you. And I thought, what I say
now is really important. And I turned to her. This
was twenty years ago, and I said, I think sixteen
(33:02):
years is a fucking good run, don't you. Yeah, she
lit up, and she said, it is, it is, it is.
You don't fear dying for yourself, do you? No? No,
But I'd like to do it in bed. You know,
I don't want I'm going to be hit by a truck,
you know, I'd like I'd like to do it peacefully
(33:25):
and with people I love. You're like, I know I'm
in an age, but I think I'm gonna live forever.
But I know I should be saying to all the
people I love the things that I want to say
to them at the end. But I don't. But it's
more of it to go around and saying this. And
if I never get a chance to tell you, yeah,
but roe, if I never get a chance to tell you.
(33:45):
I love you and you have changed my life. I'm
saying that to you, Rosie O'Donnell. Well, thank you, Sharon
gless You've done the same for me. Oh, thank you.
You have a wonderful way of keeping close and connected
to the people you love. You fall in love and
you don't fall out. I don't. I'm still in love
with you. Well, diddo, honey, right back at Yanks. I'm
(34:06):
not kidding. It's been since I saw you on Cagney
and Lacy. I was sitting in Komac Along Island on
the Levitts plaid brown couch with a TV that had
a broken turn signal, and we had wires from the
hangars to to make it come in good like it
shocks me, you know, and everybody I know, all the
(34:29):
girls who were on the softball team and the basketball team,
they only had eyes for Glessie. They did not care
for Mary Beth Lacey. Just let me tell you right now.
The men all were in love with Tyno, and all
the lesbians wanted you. Yeah. Oh, should we tell the
story as we go? Sure? If you want me to,
I don't mind sit in the book, go ahead, tell okay,
(34:49):
Row and I had been friends rowe came to do
queer as Folk with us, and we got really close, yes,
and then you invited me on on those cruises or
not or a relationship just get blossoming and blossoming, and
I don't know what happened, but you just loved me
for who I was. I had this dream about you
(35:12):
one night and we were really really like really really
close intimate friends and you're Rosie O'Donnell. And in my
dream it was like, I know, but you know, in
my dream it was like I loved her so much
and I've never had a friend like this ever in
my dream. And the next night you were and I
were having dinner, and I told you that I had
(35:33):
this dream and then how much I really did love you?
And did you think maybe that you and I could
you know? Yeah? And before I finished the sentence, you
were nice enough to say, oh, Glassie, you are so straight.
Stop it it's true, you're so straight. I mean, you
don't think, no, I don't think. I oh, I wish
for many years you would be gay. You know, truth,
(35:55):
such nerve, you got to know it took such nerve
to say that, but you just laughed. Honey. You just laughed.
I told you a joke. I said, Hey, if you've
only taken the George Washington Bridge into New York City,
there's no reason to try the Holland Tunnel. You started laughing,
and then it was over. But listen, I've told everyone
(36:17):
that story, and I don't let it, you know, I
don't let it get rusty and mind. I proudly tell it.
I proudly tell it. I misunderstood, but I still love
you very much. I love you too, honey, And you're
the best in the book. Apparently there have been complaints.
It's very good title, and it's a wonderful book, and
I love I love any little morsel of information I
(36:40):
can get about you, and who you are in real
life is as glorious as you are as an actress.
And I'm proud to know you. Glessie. Thank you. Do
you want to know how the title happened? Yeah, tell
me tell me how the title happened Because during Cagnet
and they see I was playing a drunk, first famous
drunk on television, right, and we found out that Sharon's
(37:03):
a drunk. So I was being hused anyway, So I
checked into rehab and it was a big scandal. The
press really went after it, and I was locked up
in there. Wood is the twenty eight D program. I
was there for seven weeks, just terrible press. And when
I got out, a friend of mine said, huh, you
were in Hazelton. It's the Harvard of the rehabs, you know. Yeah.
(37:27):
I said, yeah, I was. She said why were you
in a time? And I just came out of my mouth.
I said, apparently there were complaints. Varney laughed and I
started laughing. And it's always been anything about me. It's
apparently there were complaints. Sometimes I miss it. Well, Honey,
(37:48):
I have no complaints about you. I have zero. In
the thirty years of loving you, I have zero complaints.
I love you too. There you go. Thank you for
having me on your show. Thank you for doing this.
This is the very first one. You broke my little virgin,
your chry. You finally did it, Glad say, there you go,
(38:30):
And now it's time for some questions that you guys
have sent in. Hi, Rosie, this is Tinkermazelle, and first
of all, I want to tell you happy birthday. Thank you.
I think it's cool that you're giving us a birthday
present on your birthday that it's very sweet. Congrats on
your podcast. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask
(38:51):
you if you were friends with Kirsty Alli, and if
you were, could you tell us a little bit about
friendship with her. Thanks, thank you so much. Thanks for
your questions and comments and keep them coming. I wasn't
really friendly with Kirsty Alli. I got to know her
a little bit when my show was first on. She
(39:13):
talked to me a little bit about scientology and was
very interested in that. Now I have other friends like
Tom Cruise, who has never brought it up to me once.
You know, there are other people that I know who
are in scientology, and Kirsty was one who brought it
up to me. So we never really connected, I think
(39:35):
on that level, which might have been you know, disappointing
to her. I can't really speak for her, but you know,
she was such a talented actress, and she was so
funny on Cheers and such a character and great on
game shows and the talk show guest. You know, she
was really wonderful. I didn't get to know her very well,
but I did name my son Parker after her husband,
(39:58):
her first husband, Parker Stephens. So there's my Kirsty Alley connection,
but love to her family and friends. That was a
woman gone too soon and gosh so quickly. I remain
your host, Rosie o'donnald. Thank you all for tuning in
to this premiere episode. I really do appreciate it. Every Tuesday,
(40:19):
we're going to drop a new one next week. Rory Kennedy.
Please watch her documentary Volcano Rescue at Vacari and it's
on Netflix and it's totally worth watching. It'll uplift your
spirits and remind you of how resilient humans are. It's
beautiful and Rory Kennedy will be our guest next week.
(40:42):
Here on onward. Thank you everybody. I really appreciate it,
and I'm gonna have myself a great birthday. Hey on
TikTok at Rosie on Twitter, at Rosie at Instagram at
Rosie and right here on iHeart Onward with Rosie o'donnald
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