January 17, 2025 • 17 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, the story of the woman who said "no" to giving up her seat on a segregated Alabama bus is widely known. But here to tell the raw, real story, is Rosa Parks herself.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
Up next, the story of the American woman most well
known for challenging segregation and on in the South. Here's
Felicia Bell to tell the story. She's the director of
(00:31):
the Rosa Parks Museum. You'll also be hearing from Rosa
Parks herself.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Segregation was an intense, rigid system of separating blacks and whites,
and I mean down to the cemeteries, down to the
pages in the phone books were separated by black people
and white people. So everything, every aspect of life, even
(00:59):
in entrances to buildings, the colored entrances were smaller doorways
or lower steps, separate water fountain, separate facilities for everything.
Every aspect of life was meant to keep black folks
suppressed and oppressed. So the effects of segregation on mister
(01:25):
and mssus Parks was one that they witnessed among their friends.
They saw how, for instance, she was not the first
woman black women to be arrested. They saw other women
in the community being harassed by these bus drivers. They saw,
(01:45):
you know, the effects of children being harassed. It was
just before her arrest was the Brown decision so desegregating
public schools, which did not immediately take place.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I left WHAT on my way home December first, nineteen
fifty five, about six o'clock in the afternoon, I voted
the bus downtown Montgomery on Coach Square. As the UH
bus proceeded out of town on the third stop, the
(02:20):
white passengers had filled the front of the bus. When
I got on the bus, the rear was filled with
UH colored passengers and they were beginning to stand.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
The seat I occupied was the.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Face of the seats where the Negro passengers UH take
as a on this route. The driver noted that the
front of the bus was qu filled with white passengers
and there would be.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Of two or three men standing. He looked back and
asked that the seat where I had.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Taken, along with three other persons, one in the seat
with me and two across I was seated. He demanded
the seats that we were occupying. The other passengers very
reluctantly gave up their seats, but I refused to do so.
I want to make very satan that it is understood
(03:21):
that I had not taken a seat in the white section,
as has been.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Reported in many cases.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
The seat where I occupied, we were in the custom
of taking this seat on the way home, even though
at times on this on the same bus route we
occupied the same seat with white standing if there the
space had been taken up, the seats had been taken up, and.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I was very much surprised at the driver at.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
This point demanded that I removed myself from the seat.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
These bus drivers have policing powers, so they have firearms.
Sometimes these firearms actually went all phone buses, and they
had policing power to have you arrested. So when he
asked her to give up her seat, he was actually
in the wrong because she was seated legally. That was
(04:22):
a decision mister Blake made on his own to make
her get out of her seat because she was not
seated illegally. Six months or so prior to this moment,
missus Parks was at the Highlander Folks School in Tennessee,
and there was where she trained on UH civil disobedience
(04:46):
and UH peaceful protest. They held integrated workshops and this
was her first time in a classroom setting with white people,
and she quite enjoyed it, uh, maybe a timid a
little bit at first, but then she really enjoyed the
uh the sessions, and that's where they trained and learned
about how to resist segregation and unjust laws peacefully. So
(05:14):
she was already, you know, trained in that. So when
the driver told her to get out of her seat,
she just simply said no. That was part of the
training to always search yourself clearly and in simple terms.
And then the driver said, if you don't get out
of your seat something til they figure, I'll have you arrested,
(05:35):
and and then she just said you may do that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
She did, and when they they came, they placed me
under wrist and I was bond bailed out shortly after
the arrest, and the trial was held December fifth, on
the next Monday, and the protest began.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
From that day.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I don't know why I wasn't, but I didn't feel afraid.
I had decided that I would have to know once
and for all what rights I had as a human
being and a citizen, even in Montgomery, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
One misconception is that missus Parks was tired when she
got off of work and that's why she didn't give
up her seat.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
She was not.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
She didn't not give up her seat because she was tired.
She didn't give up her seat because she was resisting segregation.
And so when we say her feet were tired, it
diminishes all It just erases all of that.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And you've been listening to Felicia Bell, director of the
Rosa Parks Museum and Rosa Parks herself, tell her story.
I had to know once and for all what rights
I had as a human being, even in Montgomery, Alabama.
Rosa Park said. That's why she did what she did.
She wasn't tired, she was sick and tired. When we
(07:16):
come back more of Rosa Park's story here on Our
American Stories. This is Lee Habib, host of our American Stories.
Every day we set out to tell the stories of
Americans past and present, from small towns to big cities
(07:37):
and from all walks of life doing extraordinary things. But
we truly can't do this show without you. Our shows
are free to listen to, but they're not free to make.
If you love what you hear, go to our American
Stories dot com and make a donation to keep the
stories coming. That's our American Stories dot com. And we
(08:09):
returned to Our American Stories and to Felicia Bell directory
of the Rosa Parks Museum, and we're picking up with
Rosa Parks herself.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I hadn't thought that I would be the person to
do this say, it hadn't occurred to me.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
In our area.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
We always try to avoid trouble and be as careful
as possible to stay out of trouble. And along this line,
the time had just come when I had been pushed
as far as I could stand to be pushed.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I suppose.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
From the time of the rest on Thursday night and
Friday and Saturday and Sunday, the weight had gotten around
over Montgomery of my arrest because of this incident, and
people just be again to decide that they wouldn't uh
ride the bus.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
On the day of my.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Trial, which was uh Monday, December fifth, and the Monday
morning when the buses were out on the regular run,
they remained empty and people were walking, uh getting rides
and cars with people who would pick them up as
best they could. On Monday night, the mass meeting at
(09:29):
the Whole Street Baptist Church had been called and there
were many thousand people there. They kept coming and some
people never did get in the church.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
There were so many and the.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
First day of remaining off the bus had been so successful.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
It was organized and that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We wouldn't uh ride the bus until our requests had
been granted.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The Montgomery Improvement Association met had a mass meeting at
Whole Street Baptist Church, and a young pastor of Dexter
Avenue Church who was new in town and had a
young family and a wife. He was there as well,
and his name was doctor Martin Luther King, and he
(10:23):
led the meeting.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Happened to a persona.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
My mother comes down the.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Bounds reach high integrity.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
My mother comes down.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Nobody come down. I put the commitment of the child
to the teaching to deat all.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, I had to think it.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
Here to happen. It happened to a perpert in the community.
May find couldn't be impression. I trun yet that is
termed the entire for that and turned across the refused
to get off. He never rush, you're not back comfor.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Tie what people.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
At this mass meeting also they decided what demands they
wanted out of this What would be a boycott, a
three and eighty two day boycott. So one of those
demands was to be treated with respect as passengers. Then
also they wanted African American men to be hired as
bus drivers on city buses, so that was actually a
(11:51):
job for a white man. Black men couldn't be bus drivers,
so that was one of their demands. And thirdly, they
wanted for come first service seating on buses.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I feel they kept on walking because I was not
the only person who had been mistreated and humiliated. Others
had gone through the same experience, some even waste experienced
than mind, and they all felt that the time had
come that they should decide that we would have to
(12:30):
stop supporting the bus company until we were given better service.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
All four seasons of weather, walking in the rain and
the cold and the heat, taking carpools, and there were
all kinds of obstacles in terms of taxis being banned
or insurance companies not ensuring taxis, so they couldn't have
taxi service. So they set up a system of pick
(13:02):
up locations through the city and you could catch a
ride in what were called rolling churches. So uh these
were station wagons with the names of churches on the
side of them where the churches sponsored that station wagon,
and then you would be picked up and then rather
than paying that driver, which that would make it a
(13:23):
taxi and illegal. You would just put money in the
offering of a church on Sunday that was on the
side of the vehicle. So then that way that money
paid for the gas and the maintenance and the driver
and that. So they there was strategy involved with the
protest and they met frequently. It wasn't just we're not
(13:44):
going to ride the buses. There was a lot of
strategy involved in the process and making it successful.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
That the those that we are not here advocating balance,
we love somebody.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I wanted to be known something.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Bractic nations that we are Christian people. We believe in
the Christian religion. We believe in the teachings of Jesus.
I'm the will that we have our words this evening
as a worman of pect that would be nobody met
(14:36):
the Monoch who would stand up and define the constitution
of this nation. We on the symbol here your passing
out is boun to see right and shis.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
For missus Parks.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
How did it happen to become the kind of religious
movement it became, or at least we seem to understand
it as a kind of a religious movement there's the
talking of walking and praying, there's the the whole appeal
to the religious peaceful aspects, and of course a number
of ministers have taken a very active.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Part in the leadership. How did this come about?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I think this came about because the ministers were very
much interested in it, and we had our meetings in
the churches and we felt that nothing could be gained
by violence or threats of a belligerent attitude. We believe
(15:41):
that more could be accomplished through the non violent passive resistance.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
We had no carl with anyone. We only want to.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Stop riding the buses until we are treated as any
other passenger.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Really, the civil rights movement in general, I think you
could say was largely led by people who were very
faith conscious. You know, from doctor King on down. There
were many people clerical members who were leaders in the
(16:21):
movement and in general, I think the sense of faith
and the principles of Christianity, I think is what shaped
the nonviolent civil rights movement.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Madison Dericott, and a special thanks to
Felicia Bell, director of the ROSA Parks Museum, and it
was so good to hear from Rosa Parks herself and
a very young pastor at the time the Dexter Avenue
Baptist Church in Montgomery. He would become the Martin Luther King.
(16:56):
We all know there he was young and leading and
eating the Christian way that was demanding, commanding that we
do it Jesus's way, and that is the nonviolent way.
And as Rosa Parks also added, belligerence wasn't going to
get us anywhere. And my goodness, the role of the
church has served shuttling people back and forth from work.
(17:18):
Is how was one to get from here to there
in a city without getting on its bus or buses
and this was a year long bus boycott and without
the role of the church playing not only a spiritual part,
but also a logistics part, a strategic part. Again, the
role of faith in this country can never ever be
(17:41):
underestimated the story of Rosa Parks, the woman who took
on segregation. Here on our American Stories
This is Lee Habib and this is our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
Up next, the story of the American woman most well
known for challenging segregation and on in the South. Here's
Felicia Bell to tell the story. She's the director of
(00:31):
the Rosa Parks Museum. You'll also be hearing from Rosa
Parks herself.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Segregation was an intense, rigid system of separating blacks and whites,
and I mean down to the cemeteries, down to the
pages in the phone books were separated by black people
and white people. So everything, every aspect of life, even
(00:59):
in entrances to buildings, the colored entrances were smaller doorways
or lower steps, separate water fountain, separate facilities for everything.
Every aspect of life was meant to keep black folks
suppressed and oppressed. So the effects of segregation on mister
(01:25):
and mssus Parks was one that they witnessed among their friends.
They saw how, for instance, she was not the first
woman black women to be arrested. They saw other women
in the community being harassed by these bus drivers. They saw,
(01:45):
you know, the effects of children being harassed. It was
just before her arrest was the Brown decision so desegregating
public schools, which did not immediately take place.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I left WHAT on my way home December first, nineteen
fifty five, about six o'clock in the afternoon, I voted
the bus downtown Montgomery on Coach Square. As the UH
bus proceeded out of town on the third stop, the
(02:20):
white passengers had filled the front of the bus. When
I got on the bus, the rear was filled with
UH colored passengers and they were beginning to stand.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
The seat I occupied was the.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Face of the seats where the Negro passengers UH take
as a on this route. The driver noted that the
front of the bus was qu filled with white passengers
and there would be.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Of two or three men standing. He looked back and
asked that the seat where I had.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Taken, along with three other persons, one in the seat
with me and two across I was seated. He demanded
the seats that we were occupying. The other passengers very
reluctantly gave up their seats, but I refused to do so.
I want to make very satan that it is understood
(03:21):
that I had not taken a seat in the white section,
as has been.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Reported in many cases.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
The seat where I occupied, we were in the custom
of taking this seat on the way home, even though
at times on this on the same bus route we
occupied the same seat with white standing if there the
space had been taken up, the seats had been taken up, and.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I was very much surprised at the driver at.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
This point demanded that I removed myself from the seat.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
These bus drivers have policing powers, so they have firearms.
Sometimes these firearms actually went all phone buses, and they
had policing power to have you arrested. So when he
asked her to give up her seat, he was actually
in the wrong because she was seated legally. That was
(04:22):
a decision mister Blake made on his own to make
her get out of her seat because she was not
seated illegally. Six months or so prior to this moment,
missus Parks was at the Highlander Folks School in Tennessee,
and there was where she trained on UH civil disobedience
(04:46):
and UH peaceful protest. They held integrated workshops and this
was her first time in a classroom setting with white people,
and she quite enjoyed it, uh, maybe a timid a
little bit at first, but then she really enjoyed the
uh the sessions, and that's where they trained and learned
about how to resist segregation and unjust laws peacefully. So
(05:14):
she was already, you know, trained in that. So when
the driver told her to get out of her seat,
she just simply said no. That was part of the
training to always search yourself clearly and in simple terms.
And then the driver said, if you don't get out
of your seat something til they figure, I'll have you arrested,
(05:35):
and and then she just said you may do that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
She did, and when they they came, they placed me
under wrist and I was bond bailed out shortly after
the arrest, and the trial was held December fifth, on
the next Monday, and the protest began.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
From that day.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I don't know why I wasn't, but I didn't feel afraid.
I had decided that I would have to know once
and for all what rights I had as a human
being and a citizen, even in Montgomery, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
One misconception is that missus Parks was tired when she
got off of work and that's why she didn't give
up her seat.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
She was not.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
She didn't not give up her seat because she was tired.
She didn't give up her seat because she was resisting segregation.
And so when we say her feet were tired, it
diminishes all It just erases all of that.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And you've been listening to Felicia Bell, director of the
Rosa Parks Museum and Rosa Parks herself, tell her story.
I had to know once and for all what rights
I had as a human being, even in Montgomery, Alabama.
Rosa Park said. That's why she did what she did.
She wasn't tired, she was sick and tired. When we
(07:16):
come back more of Rosa Park's story here on Our
American Stories. This is Lee Habib, host of our American Stories.
Every day we set out to tell the stories of
Americans past and present, from small towns to big cities
(07:37):
and from all walks of life doing extraordinary things. But
we truly can't do this show without you. Our shows
are free to listen to, but they're not free to make.
If you love what you hear, go to our American
Stories dot com and make a donation to keep the
stories coming. That's our American Stories dot com. And we
(08:09):
returned to Our American Stories and to Felicia Bell directory
of the Rosa Parks Museum, and we're picking up with
Rosa Parks herself.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I hadn't thought that I would be the person to
do this say, it hadn't occurred to me.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
In our area.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
We always try to avoid trouble and be as careful
as possible to stay out of trouble. And along this line,
the time had just come when I had been pushed
as far as I could stand to be pushed.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I suppose.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
From the time of the rest on Thursday night and
Friday and Saturday and Sunday, the weight had gotten around
over Montgomery of my arrest because of this incident, and
people just be again to decide that they wouldn't uh
ride the bus.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
On the day of my.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Trial, which was uh Monday, December fifth, and the Monday
morning when the buses were out on the regular run,
they remained empty and people were walking, uh getting rides
and cars with people who would pick them up as
best they could. On Monday night, the mass meeting at
(09:29):
the Whole Street Baptist Church had been called and there
were many thousand people there. They kept coming and some
people never did get in the church.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
There were so many and the.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
First day of remaining off the bus had been so successful.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
It was organized and that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We wouldn't uh ride the bus until our requests had
been granted.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The Montgomery Improvement Association met had a mass meeting at
Whole Street Baptist Church, and a young pastor of Dexter
Avenue Church who was new in town and had a
young family and a wife. He was there as well,
and his name was doctor Martin Luther King, and he
(10:23):
led the meeting.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Happened to a persona.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
My mother comes down the.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
Bounds reach high integrity.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
My mother comes down.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Nobody come down. I put the commitment of the child
to the teaching to deat all.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Right, I had to think it.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
Here to happen. It happened to a perpert in the community.
May find couldn't be impression. I trun yet that is
termed the entire for that and turned across the refused
to get off. He never rush, you're not back comfor.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Tie what people.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
At this mass meeting also they decided what demands they
wanted out of this What would be a boycott, a
three and eighty two day boycott. So one of those
demands was to be treated with respect as passengers. Then
also they wanted African American men to be hired as
bus drivers on city buses, so that was actually a
(11:51):
job for a white man. Black men couldn't be bus drivers,
so that was one of their demands. And thirdly, they
wanted for come first service seating on buses.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I feel they kept on walking because I was not
the only person who had been mistreated and humiliated. Others
had gone through the same experience, some even waste experienced
than mind, and they all felt that the time had
come that they should decide that we would have to
(12:30):
stop supporting the bus company until we were given better service.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
All four seasons of weather, walking in the rain and
the cold and the heat, taking carpools, and there were
all kinds of obstacles in terms of taxis being banned
or insurance companies not ensuring taxis, so they couldn't have
taxi service. So they set up a system of pick
(13:02):
up locations through the city and you could catch a
ride in what were called rolling churches. So uh these
were station wagons with the names of churches on the
side of them where the churches sponsored that station wagon,
and then you would be picked up and then rather
than paying that driver, which that would make it a
(13:23):
taxi and illegal. You would just put money in the
offering of a church on Sunday that was on the
side of the vehicle. So then that way that money
paid for the gas and the maintenance and the driver
and that. So they there was strategy involved with the
protest and they met frequently. It wasn't just we're not
(13:44):
going to ride the buses. There was a lot of
strategy involved in the process and making it successful.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
That the those that we are not here advocating balance,
we love somebody.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I wanted to be known something.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Bractic nations that we are Christian people. We believe in
the Christian religion. We believe in the teachings of Jesus.
I'm the will that we have our words this evening
as a worman of pect that would be nobody met
(14:36):
the Monoch who would stand up and define the constitution
of this nation. We on the symbol here your passing
out is boun to see right and shis.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
For missus Parks.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
How did it happen to become the kind of religious
movement it became, or at least we seem to understand
it as a kind of a religious movement there's the
talking of walking and praying, there's the the whole appeal
to the religious peaceful aspects, and of course a number
of ministers have taken a very active.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Part in the leadership. How did this come about?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I think this came about because the ministers were very
much interested in it, and we had our meetings in
the churches and we felt that nothing could be gained
by violence or threats of a belligerent attitude. We believe
(15:41):
that more could be accomplished through the non violent passive resistance.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
We had no carl with anyone. We only want to.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Stop riding the buses until we are treated as any
other passenger.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Really, the civil rights movement in general, I think you
could say was largely led by people who were very
faith conscious. You know, from doctor King on down. There
were many people clerical members who were leaders in the
(16:21):
movement and in general, I think the sense of faith
and the principles of Christianity, I think is what shaped
the nonviolent civil rights movement.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Madison Dericott, and a special thanks to
Felicia Bell, director of the ROSA Parks Museum, and it
was so good to hear from Rosa Parks herself and
a very young pastor at the time the Dexter Avenue
Baptist Church in Montgomery. He would become the Martin Luther King.
(16:56):
We all know there he was young and leading and
eating the Christian way that was demanding, commanding that we
do it Jesus's way, and that is the nonviolent way.
And as Rosa Parks also added, belligerence wasn't going to
get us anywhere. And my goodness, the role of the
church has served shuttling people back and forth from work.
(17:18):
Is how was one to get from here to there
in a city without getting on its bus or buses
and this was a year long bus boycott and without
the role of the church playing not only a spiritual part,
but also a logistics part, a strategic part. Again, the
role of faith in this country can never ever be
(17:41):
underestimated the story of Rosa Parks, the woman who took
on segregation. Here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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