November 27, 2023 • 30 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, it’s a well-known bit of movie trivia that all 5 films in which actor John Cazale appeared were nominated for Best Picture, and three of them received the Oscar. John Cazale played one of the most iconic characters in film history: Fredo Corleone from The Godfather. Yet today, most people don’t know his name. Here to tell this story is Jonjo Powers, author of A Small Perfection: John Cazale and the Art of Acting.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we continue with our American stories. It's a well
known bit of movie trivia that all five films in
which actor John Cazal appeared were nominated for Best Picture,
three of them received the Oscar. Furthermore, he appeared posthumously
in archival footage in The Godfather Part Three, which was
(00:32):
also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He's
the only actor in American history to have this distinction.
John Cazal played one of the most iconic characters in
film history, Fredo Corleone from The Godfather, yet today most
people don't even know his name. Here to tell this
(00:54):
story is John Joe Powers, author of a small Perfection,
John Cazal and the Art of Acting. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Even though it's been fifty years, I still remember the
first moment I saw John Cazal. I had gone, like
most of the planet had gone, to see The Godfather,
a movie that had exploded onto the popular culture. If
you were a young actor in the seventies, as I was,
it was mandatory viewing because it showcased the once and
(01:31):
future legends of film acting, Marlon Brando al Pacino, Robert Duvald,
James Kahn, Talia Schier, Diane Keaton, so many who would
go on to other great performances. In the opening wedding
scene were introduced to the main players in the film.
One by one, the major characters are featured for a
(01:51):
moment or two, which brilliantly sets up the story. The
last of them we meet is Fredo. Naturally, in a
family of strong, determined men, he's the weak one, the
run to the litter, He's the forgotten one. I remember
when the camera finally fell on John Cazal as Fredo.
I immediately thought, who is this guy? In a scene
(02:13):
populated by so many wonderful actors. This guy wasn't acting.
He was just Fredo, an ordinary guy in extraordinary circumstances,
the guy we wouldn't think twice about if he weren't
so perfectly out of place. Is one of the many
ironies of John's life that this fellow who never seemed
(02:34):
to be acting, was in fact one of the greatest
actors in cinematic history. In the following six years, I
would see him four more times. I found his portrayals riveting.
His acting was audacious in the company of some of
the most celebrated actors of the age. I always considered
him to be their equal. Often they're better among the
(02:57):
lovers and the heroes and the villains. He was the unforgettable,
forgotten one, the easy to pass over one, the weakling,
the loser. He was the one in relief, set back
from the spotlight when everyone else gathered in the center
of the screen. John roamed the lonely edges, finding truth
in each step, and he was fascinating in the process.
(03:22):
John Cazal led a short, ironic life. He was primarily
a stage actor, but made his feature film debut in
one of the most influential films in cinematic history. It's
a rather well known bit of trivia that John is
the only actor with multiple roles to appear in only
films that were nominated for Best Picture, and every actor
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with whom he worked, people like Paccino, De Niro, Hackman,
and Streep, all said the same thing. Working with John
made them better. Yet most audiences don't even know his name.
Everything about John's participation and The Godfather is drenched in irony.
He was seen by director Francis Ford Coppola in an
(04:05):
off Broadway play called Line. Francis thought he was perfect
for Fredo, and he was right. But at the same time,
John's actor friend Al Pacino was having a very hard
time holding onto the lead part of Michael, and the
studio was completely opposed to the casting of one of
John's idols, Marlon Brando in the title role. For weeks, Francis, Marlon,
(04:29):
and Al were always in danger of being replaced, but
John was safe from the start. Who cares about Fredo.
It's another irony that in a film that runs just
under three hours and in which he's only on screen
for about ten minutes, John has as much impact as
the leads. He took the part that no other actor
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would choose, and by virtue of his portrayal, turned it
into the role every actor wished he had played. He
stood equal to all the other brothers in the Colling
Oonne family, with as much importance to the story as Sonny,
Tom or Michael, but with a lot less screen time.
Even so, he made Fredo truly iconic. After the movie
(05:14):
was released, there was a joke that circulated for years.
Someone would say something like, in our group, you're Fredo,
and everyone would laugh because everyone knew what that meant. Weak, stupid, ineffectual.
No one had to explain the joke. It was clear
and vivid because John Cazal made Fredo clear and vivid
(05:35):
and very human. John excelled at bringing his characters to
full human life. As al Pacino said, he really occupied
the space, meaning his characters had height, width, and depth.
He never seemed to be acting at all. In fact,
he was so convincing as Fredo that casting directors often
(05:55):
couldn't see him any other way. Meryl Streep, his co
star on stage and on screen, and his lover off,
described his gifts perfectly, saying that he felt a responsibility
to the fictional character as if it were a real soul.
What a great sense of humanity for an actor to have.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
He was such a special human being and uniquely talented actor.
His compassion for his people that he was portraying, and
the sort of responsibility he felt to a fictional character
as if it were a real soul that made him
go that deep into his characters and do beautiful, beautiful work.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
After The Godfather wrapped, it was entirely possible that John
might have returned to New York and worked the rest
of his life on stage in relative obscurity. But Francis
Ford Coppola knew he had discovered a unique talent. He
revised a screenplay he was writing for his next film,
adding the part of an assistant to the main character,
specific for John to play as Stan. In The Conversation,
(07:04):
John does the hardest thing an actor can do. He
plays a guy who's just normal. No eccentricities, no quirks,
just a guy who goes to work and does his job.
Actors are so inclined to do something that they often
are unable just to be normal. It's deep within us
(07:24):
to want to be noticed. But John had a way
of being normal that made it impossible for an audience
to overlook him. He was life in the midst of performance.
He was reality in the midst of naturalness. Far from
stealing the scene, John instead enriched it. He didn't detract
anything from the other actors by creating vivid characters, he
(07:47):
added to their reality. Coppola would find himself competing against
himself at the Golden Globes and the Oscars in nineteen
seventy five. The Conversation was nominated as Best Picture for
both awards, as was The Godfather Part two. The continuing
story of the Corleone Family, which was in fact both
a sequel and a pre quote. As a further testament
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to John's talents, Francis and Mario Puzo, the co writer
of the films based on his novel, move the character
of Fredo into the center of the action. For those
of us who loved John's acting, I call us cazellots.
This film gave us what we were craving, the chance
to see far more of John's unerring talents and to
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see how the rest of Fredo's story played out. If
the Godfather saga, comprised of all three films, is the
story of Michael Corleone, the first two parts can also
be considered Fredo's story. They are the two characters who
grow and change the most. Fredo is a prince that
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will never see the throne. He will never be head
of the family, but will do instead the bidding of
his younger brother, and he secretly resents it. This is
the stuff of highdrama. It's Shakespearean and its structure. The
man who sits in the seat of absolute power is
betrayed by those around him. To retain his kingdom, he
(09:14):
must destroy many of his subjects, all those he fears
may be disloyal that includes his brother. In another ironic twist,
the least threatening of all the Corleone brothers becomes the
most dangerous when he's talked into a deal that promises
that there might be something in it for him. Instead,
(09:34):
he becomes a traitor to his family.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you've been listening to John Joe Powers, author of
A Small Perfection, John Kissal and the Art of Acting.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
When we come.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Back more of the story of John Kasal, an American icon,
an actor's actor here on our American stories. And we
(10:09):
returned to our American stories. Here again is Jean Joe Powers,
author of a Small Perfection, John Cazal and the Art
of Acting. Let's pick up where we left off with
Kazu's performance as Fredo in Godfather Too.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Now, if a joke came from John's first appearance as Fredo,
this one brought an imitation that was no less repeated.
We just suddenly shout, I'm smart, not like people say
like dumb. I'm smart and I want to respect. It
was Fredo's pathetic protests when Michael confronts him about his betrayal.
(10:45):
Most actors would want to be up on their feet
and in Michael's face to play a scene in which
they finally get to vent their frustration. But John Knewfredo
would never go toe to toe with Michael, so he
played the whole thing, laying in the lounge chair like
a helpless turtle on his back, never daring to stand up,
and it's one of the most famous scenes in cinematic history.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I've always taken care of you.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Breda taken care of me. You're my kid, brother, you
take care of me.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Do you ever think about that?
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Do you ever once think about that? Save Fredo? Off
to do this, sen Fredo, off to do that, Sir Fredo,
to pick somebody up at the airport. I mean your
older brother, Mike, and I was stepped over. Ain't the
way I wanted it. I can handle things. I'm smart.
(11:42):
Like everybody says like dumb, I'm smart and I want
to spect.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Three films into his movie career, and John was showing
just how deep his talent went. Still in reviews in
award shows, he wasn't noticed like Fredo was passed over,
but it was impossible to ignore him. In his next film,
Many believe it may be his crowning achievement of movies,
and it almost didn't happen because ironically, he was wrong
(12:12):
for the part. Dawn Day Afternoon was based on a
real incident, a Brooklyn bank robbery that turned into a
hostage situation. The film was developed as a vehicle for
al Pacino, who by then was one of the hottest
stars in movies. Al had a slight resemblance to the
actual robber, but in real life, the enforcer, the gunman
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who assisted the robbery, was an eighteen year old kid
named Sal Sidney Lemett, the brilliant director, was determined to
make the film as realistic as possible, building a replica
of the bank in an abandoned store, lighting the interior
with fluorescent bulbs, and even asking the actors playing the
bank personnel to bring in their own wardrobes from home.
(12:56):
To find just the right actor for Sal, he auditioned
every eighteen year old actor he could find. Then al
Pacino made a suggestion read John Cazell for the part. Well,
Sidney was hesitant, feeling the same actor who had convinced
the world he was Fredo Corleone, who was completely wrong,
and he was too old thirty nine at the time filming,
(13:18):
Still Sidney had a great relationship with Al, having just
directed him two years prior in serproco. So John read
three lines for the skeptical director and Sidney relented. He
broke my heart. The director later confessed.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I remember we were casting and Sidney Laman wanted a
a nineteen year old boy. He thought that would be
very important, and he was sort of right.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
I'd been reading a lot of people for it, and
Al kept asking me to read John.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
So of course Sidney think, with John, that's not what
I'm thinking. John Gizzelle, no, the guy who did Fredo.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
No.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
Finally, because I've got such respect for Al, John came
in a stunned he could not have looked wronger. And
then he read and it was just the most extraordinary connection,
heartbreaking a scene and what are we talking about? Talking
about a totally anti social and properly terrible man and
(14:18):
Cazal broke your heart.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Despite diverging wildly from his historic counterpart, John created a
character unlike any other. Sal was completely closed, tight against
the rest of the world, a total enigma. Sal is
unpredictable in the truest sense of the word. Tightly wound,
with a history of military service and prison in isolation.
(14:43):
No one, not even al Pacino's Sonny, can know what
he's thinking or when he may come unwound. He's the
ticking time bomb that gives the film its relentless suspense,
and strangely enough, he also gives the film its heart.
One of John's greatest gifts was his ability to draw compassion,
(15:04):
even love, from the audience. For the many portrayed. He
didn't play good guys. He played a pimp, a thief,
and perhaps a killer, a braggart who waves a gun
in the face of his friends and at least once
punched a woman. The most normal of his characters was
a professional voyeir. Yet somehow we have affection for each
(15:24):
of these men. That's because John never judged the characters
he portrayed. He understood them. Such understanding can only come
through exploring their human motivations by asking perpetual questions. According
to Meryl Streep, John was known as twenty Questions in
the industry because he never stopped asking them. And nowhere
(15:45):
was his gift for explorations so completely demonstrated that in
sal there was behind those sunken eyes a deep well
of sadness, sorrow even and our inexplicable urge is to
know what had wounded him so savagely. We want to
get to know the guy with the gun better. Ironically,
(16:05):
we never do. There's no big moment for sal when
he reveals his pain. Instead, as the situation grows more
and more desperate, he retreats further and further into himself,
growing ever more still, ever more quiet, and ever more dangerous.
Dog Day Afternoon, like the previous films in which John appeared,
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was nominated for both the Golden Globe and the Oscar
for Best Picture. And like the three previous times, there
was no Oscar nomination for John, but the Golden Globes
gave him his only nomination for a movie work when
they put him up as Best Supporting Actor. Richard Benjamin
took home the award that year. If the lack of
(16:47):
award recognition bothered John, he didn't complain much about it.
He was far more interested in art than an awards.
While making his final film, he was asked about it
and responded by saying, if you have any nation toward paranoia,
that sort of thing, we'll bring it out in you.
You say, what do I have to do to get recognition?
Of that sort. But then you put it back in
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perspective and ask yourself how much that or any award
really matters in one respect. I'm sorry awards can generate
other works. No actor knew as much about being a
supporting actor. That was never truer than in Dog Day Afternoon,
in which his sal urged al Pacino to one of
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his greatest portrayals.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
And I've done a lot of work with John, so
I know. I did a lot of theater with John,
and he became whoever it was he was playing. And
John would be afraid though you believe that's who he was,
of course, and I watched him do it every role
I did dog Day with him. I did several plays
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with him, and it was amazing to watch. It was
a lesson in itself. I think I learned more about
acting from John than anybody.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And that was al Pacino's voice, you which is listening
to and you're hearing the story of John Kazell as
told by jeanjo Powers. His book A Small Perfection, John
Kazell and the Art of Acting is available at Amazon
and all the usual suspects. John never judged the men
he played. He understood them and it's so true and
(18:29):
that it's best. That's what acting is. It's an exercise
in superhuman empathy. When we come back more of this
remarkable life story, and if you get a chance with
your family, watch Godfather one, then watch Godfather two. I
mean at the age appropriate time because it is Shakespearean.
The acting is remarkable. The discussion points for a family,
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they don't get better. What is the nature of man?
What is good? What is evil? This is not a
movie that calamorizes evil. There are consequences. The story of
John Cazell, his work and his profession. Here on our
American stories. And we returned to our American stories, Let's
(19:41):
return to John Joe Power as author of a small perfection,
John Cazelle and the Art of Acting. Powers picks up
his story with John and his dog Day Afternoon co
star al Pacino.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
One of the great joys of the film is to
see these two actors, who had so much trust than
each other, engage in a brilliant duet. Al said all
he wanted to do was to act with John for
the rest.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Of his life.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
In fact, he admitted that John was not only his
dear friend and acting partner, but he was one of
his acting idols, so much so that when John came
to sel on Broadway, Pacino went overboard and trying to
impress him.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
I was doing a play called The Basic Training of
Pablohamo on Broadway and it was a really great role
and I had done things with it and I had
gone to Tony Ward and I was really but John
was coming to see it. And I don't like to
know when anyone's in the house, but I knew John
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was in the house right And every single thing I did,
every scene, I was trying to impress John, and I
knew I'm doing this, I'm saying this. I'm not doing this,
said I'm trying to impress John. And it was over
and I was really unhappy because I knew I hadn't done.
(21:08):
And John came back. He said, very impressive, Oh, very impressive. Yes, yeah,
I said, you know what I said. He was so
graceful though, he was so gracious about it all. But
I said, you know, I knew you were there, and
I was trying to I've been doing everything twice as
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much as I had to do it. Yeah, he said,
was good. I was good. It was good. So you
don't know you don't realize that you know you've been
doing it. But I knew I had, so I was
very you know, he was like one of my idols,
so that when he was coming to see me, it
was And that's the worst thing you could do is
try to impress your your friends who you love.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Ironically, dog Day Afternoon, their greatest of all on screen pairings,
would be their last. The next year, John and Al
would appear together on stage for a final time, ten
years after they shared their acting breakthroughs. That same year,
nineteen seventy six, John shared the stage with another actor
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whose work would become legendary. While in rehearsals, he confided
to Al that he had met the greatest actress in
the history of the world. Her name was Meryl Streep,
and she was at the start of a career in
quickly gaining a reputation that supported John's assessment. During the
production of Measure for Measure, John and Merrill fell in
(22:38):
love and moved in together. Their lives on stage and
off were colored by a devotion for one another that
intrigued both audiences and friends. At forty one, John was
a bona fide actor with a rapidly growing reputation on
stage and on screen. He was beloved by his friends
and in love with Meryl Streep, and he was on
(23:00):
his way to Broadway. But irony can be cruel. John
played the first preview in the title role of the
Broadway production of Agamemnon. Then he began to cough up blood.
He never returned to the show. An obsessive smoker, John
was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer. One of his
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first concerns was will they let me work? As it
turned out they would one last time. Robert De Niro
and Michael Chimino were preparing The Deer Hunter, an epic
film about a group of friends who work in the
steel mills of Pennsylvania and how their lives were changed
by their service in the Vietnam War. For the role
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of Stan, a braggart who is always trying to be
a bigger man than he's capable of being. Both wanted
John Cazal. As talks about his participation went on. There
was good news and bad news. The good news was
that if John was in the film, Meryl Streep agreed
to play the rather uninteresting role of Linda, a girlfriend
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to one of the main characters. In order to stay
close to John during the shooting, Chimino offered a letter,
developed the character and add more depth to it. The
bad news was that John was dying. The cancer had
metastasized to his bones. Despite trying different protocols, the prognosis
remained grim. The studio backing the film opposed his casting,
(24:26):
worried that he would die before his scenes were finished.
It was only the united front of Cimino, de Niro
and Streep, insisting that he stay in the film or
they'd resign, that convince the studio to relent. The shooting
schedule was drawn off, putting all of John's scenes as
the first to be filmed. In the hot June of
nineteen seventy seven, they begin shooting the cold autumnal scenes
(24:49):
that would open the movie. For the fifth and final time.
John Cazal would show actors everywhere how it's done. When
it's done to perfection, there is no hint of his
personal struggles. His Stanley once again as a fully drawn
human being, alive and compelling and the most fascinating character
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on the screen. Once his and Merril scenes were wrapped,
they retreated to their loft in New York City, where
John tried to remain optimistic in the face of his deterioration.
Early in nineteen seventy eight, it was clear that he
wouldn't beat the cancer as he had predicted. About three
am on the morning of March thirteenth, John died. He
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would not live to see his final film be nominated
for the Golden Globe and win the Oscar for Best Picture,
nor would he see the woman he once called the
greatest actress in the history of the world receive her
first Oscar nomination. I've come to regard John rather like
the Vincent van Goe of acting. Vincent worked obsessively at
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his art during his short lifetime, largely without recognition. While
John routinely drew glowing reviews for his stage work, film
critics largely ignored him, and as mentioned, he was passed
over for rewards. I've long thought that was because no
one knew he was acting. Far from the isolated, damaged
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losers he portrayed, John was a gregarious, curious, funny man
who had a type of charisma that drew others to him.
But he, like Vincent, had a singular vision that created
art that confounded the viewer. John's ability to access the
deepest pain of his characters gave them an uncomfortable vulnerability
(26:38):
that made us wonder if we should be watching. His
art disturbed us, but in a way that compelled us
to keep looking. And Like Vincent, John's notoriety has grown
throughout the decades. Six years after he died, the McGinn
Kazalk Theater was dedicated in New York to him and
his close friend, the actor Walter McGinn, who had died
(26:59):
the year for John. In two thousand and nine, the
filmmaker Richard Sheppard directed to documentary appropriately short called I
Knew It Was You, Rediscovering John Gazal. The publicity from
the film generateds scores of appreciative essays. Then, in twenty fifteen,
a Czech Film festival celebrated John's legacy at their fiftieth
(27:23):
anniversary by running that documentary along with The Godfather Part
two and Dog Day Afternoon. That was the same year
I published my book A Small Perfection, John Kazol and
the Art of Acting. It coincided with the eightieth anniversary
of John's birth. I had by then watched the five
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films in which John had acted over and over for
years and had realized that, aside from being five of
the best portrayals in screen history, there were lessons in
John's work every actor should learn. It's intentionally not a biography,
although it has some biographical notes, but I found myself
(28:04):
reluctant to delve too deeply into his personal life. John,
like Vincent before him, was an artist. If you really
want to know an artist, you look at his work.
That's where you'll find the truest biography. John and Vincent
both had their legacies deepened by premature death. They were
halted at perfection and left us without explanation of their
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art nor a need for it. John Kazu left us
at the height of his promise, with all of the
anticipation of his next appearance still thick in the air.
All of us who love acting and love his acting
will try forever to describe that deep, intangible essence of
John Kazu. If you want to know about him, watch
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us five films. The devotion, generosity, humanity, and responsibility he
displayed as an actor is all we really need to
see in order to know the man he was. The
rest is just a mystery, but mystery is what keeps
us asking questions, and asking questions is what keeps actors alive.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And a terrific job on the production. The editing by
our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to John
Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John Cazal and
The Art of Acting. And I was a young actor
in the early nineteen eighties for a very short time,
and I got to see what John did up close
and personal. I saw him perform on the stage. I
(29:36):
saw Paccino perform on the stage with him. And I
got to see Meryl Streep and measure for measure. These
were things you saw as a young actor, and you
knew these were God given talents. And none more irrespected
and revered than John the Vincent Van Goh of acting.
Both men's body of work shortened by death, the story
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of an actor's actor. All five of his films nominated
for Best Picture Oscars. John Cazal his story here on
Our American Stories
And we continue with our American stories. It's a well
known bit of movie trivia that all five films in
which actor John Cazal appeared were nominated for Best Picture,
three of them received the Oscar. Furthermore, he appeared posthumously
in archival footage in The Godfather Part Three, which was
(00:32):
also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He's
the only actor in American history to have this distinction.
John Cazal played one of the most iconic characters in
film history, Fredo Corleone from The Godfather, yet today most
people don't even know his name. Here to tell this
(00:54):
story is John Joe Powers, author of a small Perfection,
John Cazal and the Art of Acting. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Even though it's been fifty years, I still remember the
first moment I saw John Cazal. I had gone, like
most of the planet had gone, to see The Godfather,
a movie that had exploded onto the popular culture. If
you were a young actor in the seventies, as I was,
it was mandatory viewing because it showcased the once and
(01:31):
future legends of film acting, Marlon Brando al Pacino, Robert Duvald,
James Kahn, Talia Schier, Diane Keaton, so many who would
go on to other great performances. In the opening wedding
scene were introduced to the main players in the film.
One by one, the major characters are featured for a
(01:51):
moment or two, which brilliantly sets up the story. The
last of them we meet is Fredo. Naturally, in a
family of strong, determined men, he's the weak one, the
run to the litter, He's the forgotten one. I remember
when the camera finally fell on John Cazal as Fredo.
I immediately thought, who is this guy? In a scene
(02:13):
populated by so many wonderful actors. This guy wasn't acting.
He was just Fredo, an ordinary guy in extraordinary circumstances,
the guy we wouldn't think twice about if he weren't
so perfectly out of place. Is one of the many
ironies of John's life that this fellow who never seemed
(02:34):
to be acting, was in fact one of the greatest
actors in cinematic history. In the following six years, I
would see him four more times. I found his portrayals riveting.
His acting was audacious in the company of some of
the most celebrated actors of the age. I always considered
him to be their equal. Often they're better among the
(02:57):
lovers and the heroes and the villains. He was the unforgettable,
forgotten one, the easy to pass over one, the weakling,
the loser. He was the one in relief, set back
from the spotlight when everyone else gathered in the center
of the screen. John roamed the lonely edges, finding truth
in each step, and he was fascinating in the process.
(03:22):
John Cazal led a short, ironic life. He was primarily
a stage actor, but made his feature film debut in
one of the most influential films in cinematic history. It's
a rather well known bit of trivia that John is
the only actor with multiple roles to appear in only
films that were nominated for Best Picture, and every actor
(03:44):
with whom he worked, people like Paccino, De Niro, Hackman,
and Streep, all said the same thing. Working with John
made them better. Yet most audiences don't even know his name.
Everything about John's participation and The Godfather is drenched in irony.
He was seen by director Francis Ford Coppola in an
(04:05):
off Broadway play called Line. Francis thought he was perfect
for Fredo, and he was right. But at the same time,
John's actor friend Al Pacino was having a very hard
time holding onto the lead part of Michael, and the
studio was completely opposed to the casting of one of
John's idols, Marlon Brando in the title role. For weeks, Francis, Marlon,
(04:29):
and Al were always in danger of being replaced, but
John was safe from the start. Who cares about Fredo.
It's another irony that in a film that runs just
under three hours and in which he's only on screen
for about ten minutes, John has as much impact as
the leads. He took the part that no other actor
(04:51):
would choose, and by virtue of his portrayal, turned it
into the role every actor wished he had played. He
stood equal to all the other brothers in the Colling
Oonne family, with as much importance to the story as Sonny,
Tom or Michael, but with a lot less screen time.
Even so, he made Fredo truly iconic. After the movie
(05:14):
was released, there was a joke that circulated for years.
Someone would say something like, in our group, you're Fredo,
and everyone would laugh because everyone knew what that meant. Weak, stupid, ineffectual.
No one had to explain the joke. It was clear
and vivid because John Cazal made Fredo clear and vivid
(05:35):
and very human. John excelled at bringing his characters to
full human life. As al Pacino said, he really occupied
the space, meaning his characters had height, width, and depth.
He never seemed to be acting at all. In fact,
he was so convincing as Fredo that casting directors often
(05:55):
couldn't see him any other way. Meryl Streep, his co
star on stage and on screen, and his lover off,
described his gifts perfectly, saying that he felt a responsibility
to the fictional character as if it were a real soul.
What a great sense of humanity for an actor to have.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
He was such a special human being and uniquely talented actor.
His compassion for his people that he was portraying, and
the sort of responsibility he felt to a fictional character
as if it were a real soul that made him
go that deep into his characters and do beautiful, beautiful work.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
After The Godfather wrapped, it was entirely possible that John
might have returned to New York and worked the rest
of his life on stage in relative obscurity. But Francis
Ford Coppola knew he had discovered a unique talent. He
revised a screenplay he was writing for his next film,
adding the part of an assistant to the main character,
specific for John to play as Stan. In The Conversation,
(07:04):
John does the hardest thing an actor can do. He
plays a guy who's just normal. No eccentricities, no quirks,
just a guy who goes to work and does his job.
Actors are so inclined to do something that they often
are unable just to be normal. It's deep within us
(07:24):
to want to be noticed. But John had a way
of being normal that made it impossible for an audience
to overlook him. He was life in the midst of performance.
He was reality in the midst of naturalness. Far from
stealing the scene, John instead enriched it. He didn't detract
anything from the other actors by creating vivid characters, he
(07:47):
added to their reality. Coppola would find himself competing against
himself at the Golden Globes and the Oscars in nineteen
seventy five. The Conversation was nominated as Best Picture for
both awards, as was The Godfather Part two. The continuing
story of the Corleone Family, which was in fact both
a sequel and a pre quote. As a further testament
(08:11):
to John's talents, Francis and Mario Puzo, the co writer
of the films based on his novel, move the character
of Fredo into the center of the action. For those
of us who loved John's acting, I call us cazellots.
This film gave us what we were craving, the chance
to see far more of John's unerring talents and to
(08:32):
see how the rest of Fredo's story played out. If
the Godfather saga, comprised of all three films, is the
story of Michael Corleone, the first two parts can also
be considered Fredo's story. They are the two characters who
grow and change the most. Fredo is a prince that
(08:52):
will never see the throne. He will never be head
of the family, but will do instead the bidding of
his younger brother, and he secretly resents it. This is
the stuff of highdrama. It's Shakespearean and its structure. The
man who sits in the seat of absolute power is
betrayed by those around him. To retain his kingdom, he
(09:14):
must destroy many of his subjects, all those he fears
may be disloyal that includes his brother. In another ironic twist,
the least threatening of all the Corleone brothers becomes the
most dangerous when he's talked into a deal that promises
that there might be something in it for him. Instead,
(09:34):
he becomes a traitor to his family.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you've been listening to John Joe Powers, author of
A Small Perfection, John Kissal and the Art of Acting.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
When we come.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Back more of the story of John Kasal, an American icon,
an actor's actor here on our American stories. And we
(10:09):
returned to our American stories. Here again is Jean Joe Powers,
author of a Small Perfection, John Cazal and the Art
of Acting. Let's pick up where we left off with
Kazu's performance as Fredo in Godfather Too.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Now, if a joke came from John's first appearance as Fredo,
this one brought an imitation that was no less repeated.
We just suddenly shout, I'm smart, not like people say
like dumb. I'm smart and I want to respect. It
was Fredo's pathetic protests when Michael confronts him about his betrayal.
(10:45):
Most actors would want to be up on their feet
and in Michael's face to play a scene in which
they finally get to vent their frustration. But John Knewfredo
would never go toe to toe with Michael, so he
played the whole thing, laying in the lounge chair like
a helpless turtle on his back, never daring to stand up,
and it's one of the most famous scenes in cinematic history.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I've always taken care of you.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Breda taken care of me. You're my kid, brother, you
take care of me.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Do you ever think about that?
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Do you ever once think about that? Save Fredo? Off
to do this, sen Fredo, off to do that, Sir Fredo,
to pick somebody up at the airport. I mean your
older brother, Mike, and I was stepped over. Ain't the
way I wanted it. I can handle things. I'm smart.
(11:42):
Like everybody says like dumb, I'm smart and I want
to spect.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Three films into his movie career, and John was showing
just how deep his talent went. Still in reviews in
award shows, he wasn't noticed like Fredo was passed over,
but it was impossible to ignore him. In his next film,
Many believe it may be his crowning achievement of movies,
and it almost didn't happen because ironically, he was wrong
(12:12):
for the part. Dawn Day Afternoon was based on a
real incident, a Brooklyn bank robbery that turned into a
hostage situation. The film was developed as a vehicle for
al Pacino, who by then was one of the hottest
stars in movies. Al had a slight resemblance to the
actual robber, but in real life, the enforcer, the gunman
(12:32):
who assisted the robbery, was an eighteen year old kid
named Sal Sidney Lemett, the brilliant director, was determined to
make the film as realistic as possible, building a replica
of the bank in an abandoned store, lighting the interior
with fluorescent bulbs, and even asking the actors playing the
bank personnel to bring in their own wardrobes from home.
(12:56):
To find just the right actor for Sal, he auditioned
every eighteen year old actor he could find. Then al
Pacino made a suggestion read John Cazell for the part. Well,
Sidney was hesitant, feeling the same actor who had convinced
the world he was Fredo Corleone, who was completely wrong,
and he was too old thirty nine at the time filming,
(13:18):
Still Sidney had a great relationship with Al, having just
directed him two years prior in serproco. So John read
three lines for the skeptical director and Sidney relented. He
broke my heart. The director later confessed.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I remember we were casting and Sidney Laman wanted a
a nineteen year old boy. He thought that would be
very important, and he was sort of right.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
I'd been reading a lot of people for it, and
Al kept asking me to read John.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
So of course Sidney think, with John, that's not what
I'm thinking. John Gizzelle, no, the guy who did Fredo.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
No.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
Finally, because I've got such respect for Al, John came
in a stunned he could not have looked wronger. And
then he read and it was just the most extraordinary connection,
heartbreaking a scene and what are we talking about? Talking
about a totally anti social and properly terrible man and
(14:18):
Cazal broke your heart.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Despite diverging wildly from his historic counterpart, John created a
character unlike any other. Sal was completely closed, tight against
the rest of the world, a total enigma. Sal is
unpredictable in the truest sense of the word. Tightly wound,
with a history of military service and prison in isolation.
(14:43):
No one, not even al Pacino's Sonny, can know what
he's thinking or when he may come unwound. He's the
ticking time bomb that gives the film its relentless suspense,
and strangely enough, he also gives the film its heart.
One of John's greatest gifts was his ability to draw compassion,
(15:04):
even love, from the audience. For the many portrayed. He
didn't play good guys. He played a pimp, a thief,
and perhaps a killer, a braggart who waves a gun
in the face of his friends and at least once
punched a woman. The most normal of his characters was
a professional voyeir. Yet somehow we have affection for each
(15:24):
of these men. That's because John never judged the characters
he portrayed. He understood them. Such understanding can only come
through exploring their human motivations by asking perpetual questions. According
to Meryl Streep, John was known as twenty Questions in
the industry because he never stopped asking them. And nowhere
(15:45):
was his gift for explorations so completely demonstrated that in
sal there was behind those sunken eyes a deep well
of sadness, sorrow even and our inexplicable urge is to
know what had wounded him so savagely. We want to
get to know the guy with the gun better. Ironically,
(16:05):
we never do. There's no big moment for sal when
he reveals his pain. Instead, as the situation grows more
and more desperate, he retreats further and further into himself,
growing ever more still, ever more quiet, and ever more dangerous.
Dog Day Afternoon, like the previous films in which John appeared,
(16:27):
was nominated for both the Golden Globe and the Oscar
for Best Picture. And like the three previous times, there
was no Oscar nomination for John, but the Golden Globes
gave him his only nomination for a movie work when
they put him up as Best Supporting Actor. Richard Benjamin
took home the award that year. If the lack of
(16:47):
award recognition bothered John, he didn't complain much about it.
He was far more interested in art than an awards.
While making his final film, he was asked about it
and responded by saying, if you have any nation toward paranoia,
that sort of thing, we'll bring it out in you.
You say, what do I have to do to get recognition?
Of that sort. But then you put it back in
(17:09):
perspective and ask yourself how much that or any award
really matters in one respect. I'm sorry awards can generate
other works. No actor knew as much about being a
supporting actor. That was never truer than in Dog Day Afternoon,
in which his sal urged al Pacino to one of
(17:29):
his greatest portrayals.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
And I've done a lot of work with John, so
I know. I did a lot of theater with John,
and he became whoever it was he was playing. And
John would be afraid though you believe that's who he was,
of course, and I watched him do it every role
I did dog Day with him. I did several plays
(17:54):
with him, and it was amazing to watch. It was
a lesson in itself. I think I learned more about
acting from John than anybody.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And that was al Pacino's voice, you which is listening
to and you're hearing the story of John Kazell as
told by jeanjo Powers. His book A Small Perfection, John
Kazell and the Art of Acting is available at Amazon
and all the usual suspects. John never judged the men
he played. He understood them and it's so true and
(18:29):
that it's best. That's what acting is. It's an exercise
in superhuman empathy. When we come back more of this
remarkable life story, and if you get a chance with
your family, watch Godfather one, then watch Godfather two. I
mean at the age appropriate time because it is Shakespearean.
The acting is remarkable. The discussion points for a family,
(18:51):
they don't get better. What is the nature of man?
What is good? What is evil? This is not a
movie that calamorizes evil. There are consequences. The story of
John Cazell, his work and his profession. Here on our
American stories. And we returned to our American stories, Let's
(19:41):
return to John Joe Power as author of a small perfection,
John Cazelle and the Art of Acting. Powers picks up
his story with John and his dog Day Afternoon co
star al Pacino.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
One of the great joys of the film is to
see these two actors, who had so much trust than
each other, engage in a brilliant duet. Al said all
he wanted to do was to act with John for
the rest.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Of his life.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
In fact, he admitted that John was not only his
dear friend and acting partner, but he was one of
his acting idols, so much so that when John came
to sel on Broadway, Pacino went overboard and trying to
impress him.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
I was doing a play called The Basic Training of
Pablohamo on Broadway and it was a really great role
and I had done things with it and I had
gone to Tony Ward and I was really but John
was coming to see it. And I don't like to
know when anyone's in the house, but I knew John
(20:46):
was in the house right And every single thing I did,
every scene, I was trying to impress John, and I
knew I'm doing this, I'm saying this. I'm not doing this,
said I'm trying to impress John. And it was over
and I was really unhappy because I knew I hadn't done.
(21:08):
And John came back. He said, very impressive, Oh, very impressive. Yes, yeah,
I said, you know what I said. He was so
graceful though, he was so gracious about it all. But
I said, you know, I knew you were there, and
I was trying to I've been doing everything twice as
(21:30):
much as I had to do it. Yeah, he said,
was good. I was good. It was good. So you
don't know you don't realize that you know you've been
doing it. But I knew I had, so I was
very you know, he was like one of my idols,
so that when he was coming to see me, it
was And that's the worst thing you could do is
try to impress your your friends who you love.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Ironically, dog Day Afternoon, their greatest of all on screen pairings,
would be their last. The next year, John and Al
would appear together on stage for a final time, ten
years after they shared their acting breakthroughs. That same year,
nineteen seventy six, John shared the stage with another actor
(22:17):
whose work would become legendary. While in rehearsals, he confided
to Al that he had met the greatest actress in
the history of the world. Her name was Meryl Streep,
and she was at the start of a career in
quickly gaining a reputation that supported John's assessment. During the
production of Measure for Measure, John and Merrill fell in
(22:38):
love and moved in together. Their lives on stage and
off were colored by a devotion for one another that
intrigued both audiences and friends. At forty one, John was
a bona fide actor with a rapidly growing reputation on
stage and on screen. He was beloved by his friends
and in love with Meryl Streep, and he was on
(23:00):
his way to Broadway. But irony can be cruel. John
played the first preview in the title role of the
Broadway production of Agamemnon. Then he began to cough up blood.
He never returned to the show. An obsessive smoker, John
was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer. One of his
(23:21):
first concerns was will they let me work? As it
turned out they would one last time. Robert De Niro
and Michael Chimino were preparing The Deer Hunter, an epic
film about a group of friends who work in the
steel mills of Pennsylvania and how their lives were changed
by their service in the Vietnam War. For the role
(23:43):
of Stan, a braggart who is always trying to be
a bigger man than he's capable of being. Both wanted
John Cazal. As talks about his participation went on. There
was good news and bad news. The good news was
that if John was in the film, Meryl Streep agreed
to play the rather uninteresting role of Linda, a girlfriend
(24:03):
to one of the main characters. In order to stay
close to John during the shooting, Chimino offered a letter,
developed the character and add more depth to it. The
bad news was that John was dying. The cancer had
metastasized to his bones. Despite trying different protocols, the prognosis
remained grim. The studio backing the film opposed his casting,
(24:26):
worried that he would die before his scenes were finished.
It was only the united front of Cimino, de Niro
and Streep, insisting that he stay in the film or
they'd resign, that convince the studio to relent. The shooting
schedule was drawn off, putting all of John's scenes as
the first to be filmed. In the hot June of
nineteen seventy seven, they begin shooting the cold autumnal scenes
(24:49):
that would open the movie. For the fifth and final time.
John Cazal would show actors everywhere how it's done. When
it's done to perfection, there is no hint of his
personal struggles. His Stanley once again as a fully drawn
human being, alive and compelling and the most fascinating character
(25:10):
on the screen. Once his and Merril scenes were wrapped,
they retreated to their loft in New York City, where
John tried to remain optimistic in the face of his deterioration.
Early in nineteen seventy eight, it was clear that he
wouldn't beat the cancer as he had predicted. About three
am on the morning of March thirteenth, John died. He
(25:33):
would not live to see his final film be nominated
for the Golden Globe and win the Oscar for Best Picture,
nor would he see the woman he once called the
greatest actress in the history of the world receive her
first Oscar nomination. I've come to regard John rather like
the Vincent van Goe of acting. Vincent worked obsessively at
(25:55):
his art during his short lifetime, largely without recognition. While
John routinely drew glowing reviews for his stage work, film
critics largely ignored him, and as mentioned, he was passed
over for rewards. I've long thought that was because no
one knew he was acting. Far from the isolated, damaged
(26:16):
losers he portrayed, John was a gregarious, curious, funny man
who had a type of charisma that drew others to him.
But he, like Vincent, had a singular vision that created
art that confounded the viewer. John's ability to access the
deepest pain of his characters gave them an uncomfortable vulnerability
(26:38):
that made us wonder if we should be watching. His
art disturbed us, but in a way that compelled us
to keep looking. And Like Vincent, John's notoriety has grown
throughout the decades. Six years after he died, the McGinn
Kazalk Theater was dedicated in New York to him and
his close friend, the actor Walter McGinn, who had died
(26:59):
the year for John. In two thousand and nine, the
filmmaker Richard Sheppard directed to documentary appropriately short called I
Knew It Was You, Rediscovering John Gazal. The publicity from
the film generateds scores of appreciative essays. Then, in twenty fifteen,
a Czech Film festival celebrated John's legacy at their fiftieth
(27:23):
anniversary by running that documentary along with The Godfather Part
two and Dog Day Afternoon. That was the same year
I published my book A Small Perfection, John Kazol and
the Art of Acting. It coincided with the eightieth anniversary
of John's birth. I had by then watched the five
(27:43):
films in which John had acted over and over for
years and had realized that, aside from being five of
the best portrayals in screen history, there were lessons in
John's work every actor should learn. It's intentionally not a biography,
although it has some biographical notes, but I found myself
(28:04):
reluctant to delve too deeply into his personal life. John,
like Vincent before him, was an artist. If you really
want to know an artist, you look at his work.
That's where you'll find the truest biography. John and Vincent
both had their legacies deepened by premature death. They were
halted at perfection and left us without explanation of their
(28:28):
art nor a need for it. John Kazu left us
at the height of his promise, with all of the
anticipation of his next appearance still thick in the air.
All of us who love acting and love his acting
will try forever to describe that deep, intangible essence of
John Kazu. If you want to know about him, watch
(28:51):
us five films. The devotion, generosity, humanity, and responsibility he
displayed as an actor is all we really need to
see in order to know the man he was. The
rest is just a mystery, but mystery is what keeps
us asking questions, and asking questions is what keeps actors alive.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And a terrific job on the production. The editing by
our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to John
Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John Cazal and
The Art of Acting. And I was a young actor
in the early nineteen eighties for a very short time,
and I got to see what John did up close
and personal. I saw him perform on the stage. I
(29:36):
saw Paccino perform on the stage with him. And I
got to see Meryl Streep and measure for measure. These
were things you saw as a young actor, and you
knew these were God given talents. And none more irrespected
and revered than John the Vincent Van Goh of acting.
Both men's body of work shortened by death, the story
(29:58):
of an actor's actor. All five of his films nominated
for Best Picture Oscars. John Cazal his story here on
Our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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