June 26, 2023 • 66 mins
We all know about that fateful day on the Boy Meets World set that found Danielle Fishel as the replacement, and new, Topanga Lawrence. But ever since finding out that she wasn’t the first girl hired for the role, we’ve been begging to hear the OTHER perspective. And after a recent recap episode reminded the gang of the original actress’s name - well, here we are. Find out what it was like to be fired from a role you were destined to play, how she dealt with never being able to escape “the Barbie girl” and how she’s since become the most interesting human in the world. Telling her story for the first time ever - it’s actress, contortionist and the very FIRST Topanga: Bonnie Morgan.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
So I was having this conversation with my wife the
other day and I don't know why this pops up,
but Susan, Susan, my wife, we were talking about, what's
your favorite word.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Oh, melifluous. I don't get to say it often, but
I love the word melifluous.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I love the word transcendent.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I like usurp. Oh really, yeah, I'm a bit like.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
I love them.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
But the sound itself, I love it all.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I don't know if it's it's and it's so on
a monopoetically incorrect for what it is it's meant for,
but it's so great.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
So one of my one of my favorite words for
the meaning is synesthesia.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh I don't know what that means.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's when you experience one sense with another. So in
other words, see music like the idea of like see like,
and some people have it actually as a brand and
then they close their eyes and they can actually see
color or hear colors or you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I think you can take color.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I love the way it sounds like. And then also
just you know, the meaning of the word is so cool.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So that's a great run. I feel like I got
my love of words because I do love words. I
just started following Merriam Webster the Dictionary. I just started
following the Dictionary on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know, it's not really the Dictionary that's instagramming their stuff.
There's somebody that's the Dictionary.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, guys, it's the book. It's the book. I've seen it. Okay,
it's very it's I love words, and I will I
will again. Credit to David Combs. David, David, he had
such a vocabulary and and I mean involving calls froom
as we've discussed all it's such a vocabulary and and
(02:06):
just finding like great words to describe things. It was
so important. And you learn it too, if you enjoy
if you enjoy school and you work hard on your papers,
and you find you have to come up with, you know,
good words, and there's so many out there. And yet
you also want to find the fine line between like,
I don't want to sound pompous. I don't want to
(02:26):
sound like.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Sound about the pretentious person in the world.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Yes, you have to.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Like no, I love good vocabularies, and it's so fortunate
that people don't use it enough. Like I feel like
we all use so many simple words when we could
have better ones. I love experience. And what's cool is
that it's one of those things that does get better
with age, Like yeah, your vocabulary, just like my vocabulary
just keeps getting bigger. And I love that, like you know,
and and yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I was I was listening to a podcast this weekend
about William shap It's it's all the things in history
that are myths that you know, are kind of debunked.
And one of them, you know, the little famous one
is did Shakespeare write his own plays? But one of
the things they talk about is William Shakespeare apparently invented
over twelve hundred words.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh yeah, oh something like of his vocabulary, of his
his words were made up.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Made come up and have become just part of the lexicon.
I mean, that's amazing, amazing. So that's why I think
all the time we keep I keep trying to invent
words on this podcast, hoping just one of them will stick.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We could still try to get strafty bright Man.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
We just drafty bright could work.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
We could using tage now instead of montage, but that's
just like delish, we know it, that's all.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Where we use Jackting, I can't no jacket and I
think do.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You use facting when you were talking about face acting?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yes, that's the other one. I'm a good factor, so you're.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
A good factor, and I can't. I'm a I'm an
I cannot jactor.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Abelia Shakespeare, William Fredell, similar.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm rather strong,
and I'm Wilfredell or William Shakespeare Fordell or William Shakespeare.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I wrote all of my own plays.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So we have commonly referred to this show as more
than just a podcast, because it also sometimes doubles as
a therapy session, and not just when we had a
real therapist on. Many of the things we've remembered or
the memories we've unlocked have led us into our own journeys,
both on the air and off, unpacking a childhood that
may have been seen on TV, but also had its
(04:47):
own set of private issues and puberty laced confusion. And
nothing from Pod Meats World has displayed this therapeutic side
effect more than recalling the day I was cast as
to Panga Lawrence, a moment that would change my life forever.
I have told that story for thirty years. I had
previously only focused on the aspirational angle, the unbelievable tale
(05:09):
of going from a character in the background to center
stage within just minutes the long night my mom and
I put into nailing Michael's notes, and it was my
story of success and the origin of my Hollywood career,
something that I am still lucky enough to have now
as a director. But it was my adulthood and now
also having children of my own, that allowed me to
(05:30):
realize recently it wasn't just my story. There was somebody
else in that story who shaped the rest of their life.
There was the original topanga. Her name, Bonnie Morgan, went
in and out of my memory for the past thirty years,
either consciously or subconsciously, I don't know. She was part
of this story I retold on TV and on the radio,
(05:52):
and in my book and really anywhere that asked me,
But I never thought about what it must have meant
to her, and if I was forcing her to relive
a hard time in her young career. I didn't know.
So when writer recently recognized her sister during a rewatch,
also a child actress who appeared on Boy Meets World,
you heard me in real time announce that I wanted
to speak to Bonnie because our lives have been so
(06:15):
connected and yet we have never spoken. So I was
able to get in touch with her and we had
a meaningful and beautiful conversation that lasted well over an hour,
and she very graciously agreed to come on the podcast.
And so today I am genuinely honored to introduce to
(06:37):
our audience for this week's Pod Meets World someone I
know you're going to love, actress and contortionist Bonnie Morgan. Welcome, Bonnie.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Good gosh, this is a room I never thought I'd
be sitting in.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Right. Bonnie, we recently spoke on the phone in a
conversation that I truly chair and have thought of many
many times since we spoke. And before we get into
what you remember about your time on Boy Meets World,
I wanted to talk about your family and how you
started in the industry.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
I am third generation vaudeville. My grandma opened for Frank
Sinatra in nineteen forty two in his Bobby Socks tour.
She was regularly requested by Jimmy Duranty. My grandparents were
swing and sway with Morgan and May, and they were
(07:35):
wow a soft shoe, jitterbug acro duo. My gosh, did
us so very cool people. They had my father, the
little scamp Gary Morgan, and had to come off the
road like many do, to seek a normal life. Their
version of a normal life was to open a dancing
(07:56):
school in Pasac, New Jersey. Hmm. And my dad became
a Broadway brat. He was a child star on Broadway.
He worked with Olivia de Haviland, oh Man, Henry Fonda,
Lillian Gish, I mean.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah ah.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
The man knows his history.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
And like many, sought his fame and fortune in California.
So he picked his jew fro, put on a top hat,
got in his Volkswagon bus with a surfboard on the roof,
and drove to California. Now we're more or less circus spolk.
Our idea of a straight job is a center ring,
(08:44):
still walking, trampoline, rolling globe, tight wire, high wire, low wire,
anything acrobatic that's like, that's your day job. Really so
my dad, My gosh, my dad is also a horror icon.
He doubled the dog in Kujo.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I mean that is coraz.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
My dad did all the attack scenes with Dee Wallace,
and any So anytime you see the dog attacking, some
of the dog's attacking trainer, whenever you see an actor
being attacked, it's my father in a suit, going, that's
my dad. So great. My aunt Robbie was Jason's first
(09:32):
victim in Friday the thirteenth. You know, the little hitchhiker, Hi,
can we go to Camp Cristal Lake, the one that
gets her throat foot on the tree. My aunt Robbie. Wow,
my dad was Billy and Logan's Run No Way. He
screen tested for Luke Skywalker because of that. Oh, my
(09:55):
dad had two screen tests with George Lucas.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
But my dad was didn't quite have that fresh faced
you know country boy. Look, he's a little more han
solo mischievous.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
So wow.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
It was also the first Frangie that you saw in
Star Trek.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Really really, we're we're speaking my language.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
Wow. Oh, talk nerdy to me, man.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Exactly, that's how I am. That's how I am. Oh man, Oh,
that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So I mean, as you guys, as you can tell,
like truly, it never ends. She has story like this
after story like this, after story like this. It's incredible
and so I think it's probably when you started acting.
Did you basically walk out of the womb as an actress.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
I always say I came to an age of reason
with a sad card and a pension, right, like right?
Like really? On Facebook you're like, you know, oh, my
first head shot, I'm like, hmm yep, nope, like.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Herber stuff, right, that's called a baby picture literally gerber sheets.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
And again it was the family business. We always joke
whenever one of our cousins has a baby nine months old,
not that much job.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yet, like.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
This is normal for us. I think the only way
to disappoint my father is if one of us had
become a CPA. Right, that's not a joke. So if
you're ever looking for a fun read, La Weekly did
a piece called the Fabulous Flying Morgans. It's a fun read.
(11:34):
Star Forman did all the artwork. It's it's photos of
are the blue pastel in Laurel Canyon. So literally, I
was raised by hippies and Laurel Canyon. My parents met
at a Hollywood party. Before she met my dad, my
mom was living with hal Ashby, whoa. She was Ruth
(11:57):
Gordon's like stand in stunt double for Harold and Maude,
a few other movies. So like literally Hip be Chick,
Hip Bee guy hurtying in the canyon. This is my life.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well that's a perfect segue.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Into that's exactly why.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What do you remember about auditioning for Boy Meets World?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
So crazy thing that my parents got married into Panga Canyon.
I got a call from my agent. I was working
a lot as a kid at this point. I was
an Oscar Mayer Wiener kid. I was. I did a
lot of commercials. I was on The Nanny, I was
(12:46):
on Life Goes On. I had just done Blossom. Yeah,
as like a tech nerd in jail, and I had
a lot of auditions for a show called The Torkul Sins. Okay, yes,
playing Ruthan.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
So I'm Michael Jacobs.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
I've been seen for that many times in many incarnations
of the show, it seemed. So I get a call
from my agent that was like this is weird, Like
she's like I would normally say, you could get this,
but it's it's like it was written for you. Like
you don't hear that a lot. I mean, I mean,
(13:26):
look at me. You don't hear that a lot, especially
as a kid and the thing is as an actor, kid,
The Brass Ring is a series. You know, when can
I get a pony? When you get a series? What
everything in your life is going to happen when you
get a series? Yeah, long running syndication, all words that
(13:51):
you know, So I get the sides and and it's weird.
It's it's stuff that I I know, it's stuff in
my life. I'm reading this going this is easy. First
call really, casting directors look at me like, wow, I
(14:12):
you know what, Let's just try it this way just
for fun. Wow, okay, we thank you for coming in.
Now here's where it gets a little weird. I had
three callbacks. They kept bringing me back, and I have
I have a hyper thymusic memory. I remember what I
wore to the audition. I remember the French doors in
(14:36):
the office for one of the meetings on the lot
so and it was rooms full of people every time.
And weirdly, every time i'd audition, we'd talk a lot.
I'm a luquacious felure and every time I'd come back,
the script would change slightly. It seemed to that we
(15:00):
had talked about And I have a lot of strange
side abilities from contortion to animal calls. By the time
I had this audition, I'd already done two full productions
of Midsummer Night's Dream, one of which I went on
(15:20):
for Puck at eleven.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
So the whole humpback whales so pale with the I had,
like I knew how to do the makeup for that.
I was like describing the geometric patterns that would be
exciting for that scene. They kept bringing me back, though,
which was strange, and one time I even left the
(15:45):
building and someone chased me down in the party lite. Hey,
could you come back? We want to try something else.
We want to give you a different script. You want
to the what do you call it? A The Men
Underground scene made it into the audition.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Okay, right, like.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
All of it so, and it was even my parents
were going, what's up, something's up? And I got a
call from my agent that said there's a power struggle
and Bonnie stuck in the middle of it. The creator
loves her. And every time someone tees like it's like
(16:24):
it was written for you. Yeah, it's like it was
written for you. My mom grew kombucha mushrooms in our
kitchen right literally, So finally it came down. You got it,
Michael Won, I didn't know that you could get fired.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
What seems like in some ways Michael was writing the
part for you. Yeah you know, I mean if you
had auditioned for Toko since because I mean, I know
he kept track of Like the reason I auditioned for
Boy Meets World is because my brother had audition had
come close on another. So he like kept track of
actors and he remembered people that he would read with
and work with. So it seems like the character of
Topanga was essentially written for you. Around you.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
It would make sense because we did talk a lot,
I mean more so than now. Anytime you had like
a significant audition, you talk to people. They want to
know who you are, what you are, what does your
mom do? What does your dad do?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Okay, so you get this call, there's a power struggle.
The creator loves you, and then you get the call.
You've got the part.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
You are to Panga. Even the name, even the name
was out of my parents' love story history. It was.
It was the coolest thing ever. And what's more, I mean,
you were all kid actors. You would audition for things
that you were like, I don't know what to do
(17:53):
with this. I mean, I'll go in. I'll sometimes it
was so off, you'd get coaching because you had to
make something out. Even as a kid, this.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Was just easy, and you think that's it. I got
it that you don't know that you could be fired.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
I didn't know that was even possible. So I come
to set and it was the weirdest day of my life,
even as a kid. I was like, what's going on here? Weird?
I remember what I was wearing too. I know you
(18:34):
can't imagine this. I was a bit of an odd kid. Now.
Tapanga was originally written as a quirky girl, an outlandish
hippie flower child. Yes, and quirky was the main word.
So I came in and all the adults were very
short with me. I went to wardrobe and I had
(18:58):
a duffel bag of all of my stuff, all of
my mom's batiqued clothing from the Renaissance there and all
of that. And she looked at the bag and looked
at me like just I couldn't describe it at the time.
I know what it was now, but at the time,
(19:19):
I like, I went to open the bag, She's like,
leave that in the corner. All right, okay. So she
fitted me in this strange what I could only describe
as a sweatshirt dress aka sweatshirt dress. Like, well, that's
(19:40):
not very hippie, like it doesn't matter. H humhm. Like
they put me in very frumpy, strange wardrobe and wouldn't
look at my stuff. They're like, you know what, just go,
we'll do this later. Okay. Weird. So the table read
was great, fun, it was all there. It was couldn't
(20:05):
have gone better with everyone around. The minute I was
separated out, it was another story. So now we're blocking
and Ben started kind of poking at me a little bit.
He would make faces and try to break me, and
(20:25):
it worked. At this point, I was becoming a nervous wreck.
I couldn't get his name. The opening line, Corey, I
would like, beffaw Corey. And David was just like, get
it tag together, and I'm trying to pull it together.
And I pulled it together in sheer fear, and Ben
just kept kept doing this thing to.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Crack and you were breaking. You were giggling and breaking
and giggling.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Another strange fact is that my dad was not on
set with me that day. My dad was almost always
on set with me. Actually on big days it was
my mom, and my mom was much more. You know.
I would stay to the side. And I know that
(21:11):
Michael wasn't there that day, right, Michael wasn't there, My
dad wasn't there. Strange. And at one point I had
a line. It was a sweet line, and David went,
I want you to say it's sweeter peace.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I was like, I said peace, okay.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Okay, and uh he said, say it's sweeter. So I
said its sweeter. He went, no, I want you to
say it, and he got really close to me, like
you're saying up birthday. And I was. I was so
(21:58):
tiny at that moment, and I just said, Okay, I
really goes do it. I said. I thought he meant
during the take, he goes do it now, wish me
a happy birthday. And I took every bit of sacharin
(22:19):
in my body and just said happy birthday. Good, that's better.
I was. I was amazed and knew not what to say.
So and again, benk I would say that your hair
looks different, so upline. He would mock me. While I
(22:40):
was saying that. I would say a line and he'd
mock it back to me. And I think I went, mmmm,
what are you whoa hey, like, that's not cool. It
every step of the day, and we were gonna do
the kissing scene on the locker, but at that point
I was like, I'm just gonna stay away from him
till Wednesday, right, geez right, thinking I was, you know,
(23:06):
stand on my ground, making a good went back to wardrobe.
They were like, you just take your stuff home. It's like, oh, okay.
The people that were nice to me were nice. Everyone
who was lovely was lovely. But it was the strangest
day on set I had ever had. I went home
(23:28):
and knew nothing. I did not know what was happening
that day.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Of course, so this is this is our Friday. You're
very the very first day. You probably arrived to set
around seven or eight. For school, we would have had
our table read at nine. Rehearsal would have started pretty
much immediately after, and then the day is usually wrapped.
Like you, we were done for the day by four
or five o'clock. And so you're having this awkward, uncomfortable,
(23:58):
super strange day on set and you're probably thinking, well,
thank god, there's a weekend after this. I just get
to go home. Recoop, have a nice weekend, and I'll
be back on Monday to start fresh.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Well. And what's even funnier is even with that crazy day,
I was like, and Monday'll be even better, right, Monday
will be even better? Uh you know, I'll pull out
all my my btique tie dyed boardroom that I have.
I had a whole thing, the humpback Whale. I was
(24:32):
gonna go full contortion on that scene in my audition.
I sat down, put both legs behind my head and
began doing pushups like my gosh, like a dolphin going
through a wave shape. Like I had a whole choreograph plan,
yoga centric bit to go with that. I was like,
(24:54):
when we all get it on our feet, it's gonna
be great, right, Jes. I had no clue.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And how old are you? Are you eleven or twelve?
We're about the same age, right, eighty one?
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Eighty one roughly? Okay, yeah, so you're twelve ish twelve?
Speaker 5 (25:15):
I was twelvesh Now, what's I remember it so very clearly?
I had no idea. I woke up the next morning
to celebrate. I made myself blueberry pancakes because I was
so grown up with the job now, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
I made blueberry pancakes and brought them up to my parents'
bedroom to sit and eat them. When the phone rang.
My dad picked up the phone. They're like, we're a
we're the kind of like hanging out, hanging out in
bed all day sort of it's Saturday. Yeah, the mom
and dad are totally just you know, chilling. Dad picks
(25:57):
up the phone and and he didn't wait to get
off the phone. He just said, what you're kidding? They
fired you? You're fired? What what? I left my pancakes,
(26:22):
ran into my room, took a blue blueberry smelling Markron
wrote the worst day of my life on my Hummingbird calendar.
What came out? Fortunately, I had been with my agent
a very long time. I'd been working with her a
very long time. The director said I couldn't take direction,
(26:47):
which is one thing I had never been accused of.
I was working a lot, and my agent immediately fought
back on that one. It's like, she can't take direction,
we have to fire or her.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, well, she's worked on this show and that show,
and this show and that show, and none of them
have ever said she can't take direction.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
And actually every director been like she takes she too
wonderfully like that. She even said that's a lie. What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
And because I always say corpse's float. There are no secrets,
especially in this industry. It came out very quickly to
my agent that the director didn't think I was pretty enough,
literally did not think I was pretty enough. So that
(27:45):
meant that a grown up, a man, a boss, would
could lie about me and tell me I was untalented
because the fact was he didn't think I was pretty. Wow.
Live with that, I'm taking away the thing you want
most in the world that was all but written for you. Yeah,
(28:07):
it's because you're not talented. Sorry, eyelied, It's just because
you're not pretty, right right?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And so when you hear this, we all know because
we've all been those twelve year olds who also operate
like adults. Do you take this with twelve year old
emotion or like, how does this affect you when you
hear it? Do you just like this this this professional
adult side kick in and you kind of muster up
(28:49):
the courage, or do you just emotionally break?
Speaker 5 (28:54):
I was shattered. I was shattered there. I don't know
a lot of adults that could handle that one.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
No way, no way, let.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Let alone a quirky kid.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Emotional people.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Quirky in the nineties was also kind of code for nerdy, like.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Just weird, abnormal and different. Quirky was the positive spin
on the correct characteristics that were not considered great.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
I never knew who got the job until it aired.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Wow, And did you watch it then? When it aired?
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I watched the show exactly once in my life, and
it was that episode.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
There is a lot that goes on throughout that time.
But I had found out that that you and Marla
had auditioned over the weekend, which.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Was Friday night. To be exactly what you did.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
No, such a slap in the face to find out
that I was dead man walking.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, by that time you left on Friday, you were
already gone. I bet you.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
My theory is that they made the decision at the
table read. I bet you it was. The reason you
felt so awkward. Is that whoever was pushing against you,
whether that was David Traynor alone or someone at the
network or whatever, who decided they made that decision after
the table read, and then you were dead man walking
the entire day.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
That's my feeling. And that's why I haven't even a
bigger feeling than that I was dead before I ever
walked on that set. I truly believe that David Traynor
decided the minute the phone call was made that he
was going to get rid of that kid, come hell
or high water. And what a hell of a thing
(30:46):
to do to somebody. Yeah, I'm sure you all had
amazing experiences with him. He went on to do a
lot of great shows. Yeah, it makes me wonder why
didn't my second choice, Why wasn't there a backup?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Well, because I think, really, when when we take our
if we can get to a place where we can
completely take ourselves out of it. There was a power
struggle that had nothing to do with characters or topanga
or actors at all. It was a power struggle between
two adults who wanted power, period and the the we
(31:27):
were all just you know, yeah, I want to get
back to Bonnie. You and you're where you were at
that day. So you're just absolutely shattered. Your job has
been taken from you. This dream you thought you had
finally fulfilled. You were going to be this character on
the show that was going to be amazing. What's the
(31:49):
first thing you do. Your dad hangs up the phone,
and what's the first thing you do to like pick
up and move on from this situation.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Well, that's where it gets a little more interesting. At
the time, I had booked two series.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
When you got the role of Tapanga and I got
something else ya.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
When I got the role of Tapanga, I had also
booked a pilot and they both shot at the same time.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Oh no oh.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
I had to make a decision, a very hard decision
between a series regular role that was the exact character
I wanted to play, or the little sister on a
Nickelodeon pilot who was written like Doogie howser tough Call
(32:43):
pilot and it was really, you know, like bird in
the Hand is worth two in the Bush pilot might
not ago, and I was. I was gung ho for Tipanga,
but the grown ups were talking, the parents and the
agents were like wow, decision was made for that. So
while I'm know hugging Gone by Bed now, my parents
(33:05):
are trying to find the silver line, like, well, maybe
you can do the other show, which was such a
consolation prize because this was Nerd Glass of knee Socks
and Peter.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Pan collars because everything.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
So immediately my scheme goes in damage control to get
that back, and miraculously they did. They got it back,
so I didn't have a chance to wallow, and I
wanted to waller. Oh my pity party was going to
(33:48):
be amazing. There were going to be tea cakes and everything.
How you have a job to do, and you're going
to do that job because that's what we do. If
you hear strange screeching, it's because I have a cockatoo
in the other room.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Who was going to say, do you have a food? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Yes, I have a small menagerie at my house. And
the kind of it is a let me know if
it's a too invasive in the sound process.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, maybe your cockatoo is something he'd like to say
to me.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
He will, he will make sweet Casanova bird love too, Sweetie.
I'll go get him in a minute.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Okay, great.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
So this show was about a girl who gets doused
with a nuclear waste or something and she gets superpowers,
and like that was really the cool rule that once
again went to the pretty girl. Now I hate to
use that term so much because I'm in no way
(34:48):
disparaging myself, but every generation has their ideal of beauty,
if you will. Sure in the nineties it was Alyssa Milano.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Mm hmmm, it was that type.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Right now it's Anya Taylor Joy or Ananta Sea Freed. Like.
That's not to say that others aren't beautiful, but when
you have Charlie's their own as your measure of beauty,
I am not a common looking that, especially for the nineties.
(35:25):
So there's the girl covered in nuclear waste who's suddenly
moving things with her mind, and I'm the nerdy doogie
howser MD type genius who has already graduated college and
is sort of her sidekick, almost little sister, but helping
her navigate her powers. A lot of big words, yeah right, Yeah,
(35:47):
a lot of big words in that script. So I
went from one to the next, and I am just
trying to keep it together and not talk about it, right,
because you're not supposed to talk about.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
It, right. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
Really, I do have to go back just a little bit, though,
because you definitely had something to add because as viciously
as I was treated by David, who was championing a
(36:24):
different look which he cast, he cast that look, he
had a type. You and Marla were definitely on the
same call sheet looking wise. Yes, So he had his
ideal replacements on deck in lesser roles. So the minute
(36:44):
I walked off that set, those two were ushered into network.
And I understand that you had an equally terrible experience
with my champion, Michael.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah on that Yeah. So Friday was your brutal day
and David was hard on you. And I thought it
was very interesting that you really remembered that cafeteria scene
where you had to say peace, because I remember that
scene and watching David work with you, and I remember
(37:18):
hearing David say, no, Sweeter, it's peace. It's not peace,
it's peace, and I remained in my voice. Yeah, you know,
Michael loves your voice. Michael is my whole life. Michael
told me, lower your voice, lower your voice the register
(37:40):
I needed your Michael wanted me to have your voice,
and David wanted you to say peace. And so you
had that day Friday, Hary Willow.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Yeah, I believe, and.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know, and I then went to work on Monday
as the new to pay and had a perfectly fine
day with David. Went all day rehearsal. Think it's great,
I've got it. This feels good, and then I did
the run through, and at the end of that run through,
Michael did in front of everybody what David had done
(38:17):
to you in front of everybody on Friday.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Can I ask, was a male actor ever treated like that?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I can't think of a single time when a male
actor on our show was treated like that?
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Can anybody else?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
No? I mean kids were fired, right, We had multiple
sh but they weren't fired.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
They weren't called out in front of everybody and then fired.
They just weren't there again.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
It seemed like it seemed like this was for some reason.
If you were a girl, I'm going to wreck you
in front of everybody.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Whoever. I've weirdly been on other sets observing when one,
let's just say one mogul champions one person and another
logal champions and other so they'll like take turns, and
this happens when time's up. Happened it was time. They'll
(39:08):
take turns, like abusing the other one's favorite if you will, like, well,
I'm gonna yell at yours and like beat them down.
It's like, oh, you want to yell at mine, I'll
yell at yours. And I've watched it obvious when it
happens and it's like, wow, it's alive and well, isn't it.
(39:28):
But even in my episode, the hair straightening serum was
from another actor, a young actor, and I remember the doves.
Rochelle says, it was.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
All about I will and yeah, I had a tiny
part that week until.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
When finally came to Fruition, he was gone too. It
was like they cleaned house and all of a sudden,
Stacey said said, geez, so.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
But I want I mean, I don't. Maybe it didn't
bring you the same comfort it brought me, But it
was so interesting when Bonnie and I were on the
phone and first of all, just for her and I
to connect as just woman to woman, but then also
actor to actor, and all this time between the two
(40:23):
of us, and yet our lives have we have in
my mind, I mean, Bonnie and I are like this,
and yet we've had all this time, but are are
no Our stories are inextricably flinked, and yet we have
had all the space. And to hear what she what
(40:48):
from her POV and her perspective and what she went through,
and then to have it go all the light bulbs
went off for me that, oh that that that note
session had nothing to do with me. It had nothing
to do with my performance. And guess what, everything Bonnie
had happened, everything that went through there had nothing to
do with Bonnie, had nothing to do with her looks,
(41:08):
had nothing to do with her performance, had nothing to
do with her. It was another storyline that was playing
out behind the scenes, and we were just characters in
the play. And we never would have known that had
we not talked.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
But what I told you too, which got even a
little weirder, was this is really, this is the thing
that doesn't go away in my life. Very weirdly, it
keeps rearing its head no matter how much I get
past it, Like really, it just keeps showing up. Yeah,
(41:51):
I have to back up one more time too. When
I saw the show, I realized because I had found
out all of that, and I saw the Barbie Mettell
Girl a literal doll as Topanga, and it was like, oh,
(42:13):
it was the only time I would ever watch the
show because I was not about torturing myself, which is
probably healthy, and it was a hard show to avoid really,
so the one time I did see it was very
hard and I had to just and it's hard not
(42:36):
to become a bitter twelve year old.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, z, you don't want to be that.
Speaker 5 (42:41):
So in the meantime, the show The Secret World of
Alex Mack gets picked up by Nickelodeon. Yes, and I
get a letter in the mail how wonderful you were
in the pilot and how much energy you brought. However,
(43:01):
that network has decided it would serve the show better
to have an older sister as Dianer sixteen. So better
luck next time.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Geez.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
So I have now lost both series, which was again
the hits came so hard and so fast, and again
they had nothing to do with me. And finally someone
(43:36):
from Alex Matt Colden said it was a conflict. We
couldn't have Doogie Howser on the show with So now
time March is on. My sister and I are both actors.
Molly was on Full House actually for several episodes as Mickey,
(43:56):
the girl that gets Stephanie to smoke. All of them
had bad noir, Big Sister. So now I get word
from the and everyone knows this is a touchy subject.
Molly has an audition for Boyet's World.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah. It's about a year later, because it's season two.
Speaker 5 (44:14):
Yeah, it's about a year later. And Mollie actually did
two episodes and it was a very small part. And
I was like, no, absolutely not but professional small role.
This is not how we do things. So Molly auditioned.
Of course, she booked it. Mollie was a wonderful actress,
(44:37):
all of those things. She books it, and then the
character recurs, and then the character recurs, and it was
very happy for her, very hard. This is still really fresh.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
And what's more is we didn't think they knew she
was my sister. We didn't know how much of a
scourge I was on set, so we really didn't want
anyone to know right that we were related, that she
had anything to do with me, because we didn't want
(45:14):
her to get fired too.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
So there she is on set. And what's strange is
I was always the contortionist, all of that, and Molly
had also figured out how to pop hers. Not quite
the same, but apparently everyone on set had been talking
(45:37):
about party tricks or strange things, and Molly, without thinking,
pulled it out. And she.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Even said the.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
Minute she did it, and I was like, hey, you
know who you look like? And she went, oh, no,
oh no. So Molly pulled you aside and confided it
to you. And that was kind of a big deal
(46:09):
for her to do, because, look, she trusted you to
tell you that. At that point, she was probably a
little scared she might get found out or fired. So
insult to injury comes. It's tape day and the family's like,
you should go and support your sister.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Wow, so do you.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
I had to put on my big girl panties this
show that day.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Good four there.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
And showed up and I sat in that audience and
when the warm up, guys like, does anyone have any
special talents that they want to show off to our
studio audience. I had so many T shirts from all
my friends shows Growing Pains. I had a T shirt
from every show that I got up and entertained on.
I didn't get up. I sat there and watched and
(47:05):
at the end of the show, Cast takes a bow
and Molly weaves the family down setting foot on that set.
Really like my toes curled when I walked like past
audience land onto that set. It was just like yeah
and cast, yeah, and everyone was really nice to me.
(47:32):
Everyone was really nice, and it was kind of awkward.
And I didn't know this. My dad said that David
came in from the corner and clocked me and saw me,
and he said the look on his face was just
he said, he just gave a look to you. And
Dad looked at him like, hey, man, gave him a
(47:54):
total hay Man look. And he said that it was
a look of I don't know if it was Contricia Gilt,
but it was like right, it was a definite look.
And weirdly, weirdly, I ran into the rider. I don't
know if you remember this where when I was doing
Shakespeare in northern California. I think I may have been
(48:18):
doing Midsummer again. This time I was playing Puck and
Molly was there, and we were at the Burbank Airport.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Writer's favorite face Home away from Home.
Speaker 5 (48:29):
You were walking through and again you're walking through. I
was sitting with a man named David Springhorn who was
playing bottom genius actor, and I just he goes, well,
you look like you just saw a ghost and you
saw my sister and you were like me and you
(48:51):
two sat down and Molly like pointed me like you
got like hey, hi, and you do. I think our
was delayed because we had a lot of time, and
I sat and told bottom David Springhorn the story of
what happened, and he looked at it was like, well,
(49:14):
aren't you just the little survivor? Yeah, because because I
didn't leave, I stayed in this business. This destroyed me
at the time. Make no mistake, this was probably one
of the more defining experiences of my life. But it's
(49:36):
one of severe perseverance. I did not let it take
me out of of my life.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
And so over the years, have you ever shared this
story publicly with as many times as you've been interviewed
with as an illustrious this is a of a career
as you have had. Have you ever when somebody asks you,
what's a little tidbit about you that nobody knows? Have
you ever shared this story publicly?
Speaker 5 (50:09):
Never? Once? Never? Once? And I'm asked a lot tell
me something that nobody knows about you, and this is
always that thing. It's like a dirty little industry secret.
And I haven't said it for a lot of reasons.
Number One, I don't want to disrespect you, Danielle. Really,
(50:32):
you were on that show a long time. You are
an icon of that day, and who am I to
take anything away? From you. Really, even if as a
child I felt something had been taken away from me,
I didn't think it would do me any good to
(50:53):
stand up and say even come across as that was
not like right, Really it didn't matter by then. And
what's more, I didn't know if that was ever public.
I know I read once, because unfortunately, when something happens
to you, even if you break up with someone, people
(51:16):
feel the need to keep tabs for you. Exactly broken
up with so they're like, hey, so she's dating someone new,
and you're.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Exactly, that's nice. I didn't want to know her.
Speaker 5 (51:29):
So people would send me articles even as a kid, Oh,
this was the worst. As a kid, people go, hey,
so there's this new character on this show. Did you
audition for that? I mean, it's like it was written
for you. I got that for the first three seasons
of Brains, like oh my gosh, and don't you live
(51:52):
into Panga Canyon. I'm like yeah, So, like a very
few people knew about it, and those who did would
like send me articles like hey, she said she wasn't
the first choice. Why don't you get up? And I'm
like no, thank you, yeah, thank you. And then years
(52:17):
past and then Girl Meets World came up. I was like, Oh, holy, how.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
Did this show die with the nineties?
Speaker 5 (52:28):
Come on, maybe it'll work on it. I was like,
Oh good, let's just reignite that old flame. Wow.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
No.
Speaker 5 (52:41):
I also wasn't sure if I would be disavowed if
I said so. You never know. I can't imagine how
Eric Stoltz felt Back to the Future. He filmed for
like two or three weeks and they went it's just
not working. I don't know if he ever broke it
(53:04):
or if that's just something that's come out in recent decades. Yeah,
because make no misp, I don't know what that is.
Everyone has been fired anyone who has lasted in this
town for any amount of time, director, producer, writer, is
(53:25):
specially actors. Everyone has been fired or replaced for one
reason or another.
Speaker 4 (53:32):
Yes, yep, absolutely true.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
So this is not a unique story. But again, I
would hate to say something to Fangoria or to one
of those and have it be fact checked and have
Disney disavow right or have you called out of the blue, hey,
so this person is saying that they are and put
(53:57):
you in that position.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Well, and again, because we hadn't spoken, you didn't know
how I what I knew about you or how I
felt about you, and I've never known how you felt
about me, And so I do I have to ask,
was there at twelve when this whole thing happened and
you then watched the episode and find out it was me?
Did you ever hate me? Did you ever think like
(54:21):
that girl?
Speaker 5 (54:22):
Oh? Of course, yeah, I am not going to lie,
and I was the bigger man about this, right. Well,
what's more is what you don't know as a kid
is that you had nothing to do with it, is
that someone else was going to have that role because
(54:44):
at that point it was going to be anyone but
me because there were too many egos involved in it. Yeah,
my victory was to be short lived because someone didn't
want that guy to win. So absolutely, when I turned
on the TV and saw literally Barbie the prettiest girl,
(55:09):
a literal model you were. You were literally on Barbie
commercials like you and Barbie next to each other, it
was like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Gosh, that was the live action skipper.
Speaker 5 (55:23):
That's who they got and it was not me. So yes,
of course, for a long time it was like she
took it from me, but you were not in the
corner conniving and conspiring. No, the seat was open and
you were ushered into it.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah. Well, and to touch on, like you said, the
story of perseverance, I mean the career you have had
after Boy Meets World. It was like a Boy Meets
World was a blip on your radar. I mean, you
are Samara in the Ring mov franchise, You come out
of the TV. You have been in tons of things,
Minority Report, Criminal Minds, you did three episodes of a
(56:08):
Series of Unfortunate Events, three episodes of Ant Farm, Shamelets,
the Muppets, stunt performances, and over thirty projects. Your career
has You have an incredible career anybody would die for.
And I just our phone conversation was so I don't
know if I could ever put to words how it
(56:30):
felt for the two of us on that phone call
to have connected after all this time and to have
shared the things that we shared. And looking back now
a full thirty years later, how do you feel about
your experience on Boy Meets World and how it has
shaped your life over this time and the fact that
(56:53):
now here we are sitting here together.
Speaker 5 (56:56):
Goodness, it was not a good experience. I'm not going
to sugarcoat it and say that it was. It was
a hard lesson in the real world of the business
be chosen. But as they said in The Godfather, we've
chosen this business. No one put a gun to our head,
and you choose to stay in it as far as
(57:19):
it goes. I do get to say in my own head,
in my own world that I did get that role.
The ways and the reasons it was taken well, that
was outside of my control. But really one thing that
(57:41):
kind of cracks me up that we joke about is
I became the monster that the pretty girls are scared of.
I'm the thing in the dark that will scare your
children and your boyfriends wherever. Though I have lived on
(58:04):
I've lived a life that I don't know that I
would have lived had I been to Pangolorence on boy
Meet's World. In my life, I opened for Paul McCartney.
I toured with Sir Paul McCartney for ten weeks and
stood on stage with him and took a bow every night.
(58:30):
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Yeah, I've
seen attack ships off the shoulder of Orion. In my life,
I have ridden horses with my dad to the foot
of the Pyramids at sunset and sipped tea in a
Bedouin outpost. Cool. I have lived a crazy, adventurous life.
(58:54):
I have ridden wire rigs that frankly, only a handful
of people and mostly from the Matrix movies, have ever ridden.
I have safeguarded other children on sets. Yeah, that couldn't
speak up for themselves, or stand for themselves, or fall
(59:16):
down for themselves. I am one of five women who
can say they were a Terminator.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Hm.
Speaker 5 (59:27):
I'm actually in the legacy of the Terminators series. I
was one of the female Terminators. Really, I would love
to have met the girl that went on that show.
I really would. But I had had adventures that I
(59:48):
think my life took me so far beyond that, beyond
being a kid on a series.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Yeah, in that sense, you know, that's exactly right. I
just thank you so much for being willing, for the
first time ever to come out here and share your
story with us and share your experience with our listeners.
(01:00:16):
I also would like to make it clear I did
not coerce you in any way into doing this. I
said to you when I first called you, I said,
if nothing else, all I care about, truthfully, was that
you and I got to have a conversation and with that,
if you wanted to share your story publicly and to
share your life and to share your story with the public,
(01:00:39):
then I wanted to give you that platform. However, if
you're if you were, if you never wanted that, I
was never going to force you to do it. What
was most important to me was that we got to
have the conversation that we had, and the very first
when I said, do you have any desire in coming
on and sharing your story and you said I will,
I will do it. I would like to do it.
(01:01:00):
And I know that it took courage and I know
it took bravery. And I am so eternally grateful for
you and to you for not only coming on here
and sharing your story with everyone, but just for accepting
that phone call on that random Tuesday and for talking
to me. And you know, just.
Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
Daniel, you're lovely, You are lovely. It couldn't have happened
to a nicer person, really, So thank you for being
kind and open and really being just so lovely about
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Thank you, Bonnie. It really means a lot to us.
So ah, thank you. This has been a nice one.
It's it's just a really beautiful full circle moment for me.
So I appreciate you so much.
Speaker 5 (01:01:51):
And are you thank thank you for talking about it,
because my gosh, this has been like the dark industry
secret in my life. Wow. And I have gone on
to other strange and wonderful things, but this is not
something that's ever come out.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
So yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
I was so good to see you everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Bye bye. Oh wow. What a life, what a career,
what a story.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Is just a total class act, just so classy about
the entire thing, the situation back then. I'm coming to
the show with her sister to support her sister after.
Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
What she went through.
Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
That is so intense at thirteen years old. She would
have been there a thirteen years old ago, a year ago.
My entire life feels ripped out from under me.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yep, crushed, and I'm now going I'm going to go
set back back to that set, same directors, same people there,
see those people sister she.
Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Was describing the secret world of alex Mack was like,
is she talking about secret world of Alexis's show? And
then it was like right, which was also Nitania's show, right,
like ended up being the sidekick. So what in a
yeah world of Yeah, like she's man, she's super classy,
so classy, can't you know? Yeah, I mean in a
(01:03:27):
weird way.
Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
It couldn't have happened.
Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
I mean, it's it's she was lucky that she had
to show biz family, do you know what I mean? Like,
could help her be resilient about this, because if you didn't,
you know, like I don't know about the other kids
who were fired off of our show, what their experiences
were like moving forward, you know, if any of them continued,
and and you know the fact that she was able
to stick it out, yeah, god, I.
Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Mean, and even the fact that her parents made her
do the hard thing and were like, you should go
support your sister. You know, they probably knew better than
she did that staying away from the set was only
building it up to be this big, horrible, scary monster. Yeah,
that once she actually went there, it would give her,
you know, probably a sense of comfort.
Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
This is our family, this is our business, this is
what we do. There's good times, there's bad times, and
the bad times can be really bad, and the good times.
Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
Can be amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
And that's the same. There's the highs and lows in
this business are insane.
Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
And we have we have both of them to talk
about all of us. You know, we all have those
horrible lows and we have those extreme highs, and yet
you know, thankfully for most of us, we go, you
know what, it's all worth it, and we and we
love what we do, and you know, it's just yeah,
it's just amazing. So anyway, I I just my conversation
(01:04:45):
with her was just even you know this it was
it was better than this was because it was intimate.
It was just the two of us learning of these
things about each other and sharing our experiences, and it
felt like there were just men's like men, little little
patches to spots on our heart and in our soul
that needed patching. And so I'm so glad that she
(01:05:07):
agreed to come on and share just share her life
with all of you, because she's so special and so
classy and so yeah, thank you, as always everyone for
following along with this episode of Pod Meets World. As always,
you can follow us on Instagram pod meets World Show.
You can email us pod meets Worldshow at gmail dot com.
And we have merch.
Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Merchandise I try to do it classy.
Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
I like its Bonnie classy great.
Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
Thank you for Bonnie, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I will send us out this time. We love you all,
pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced
and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Wright Strong Executive producers,
Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production,
Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Jackie Rodriguez,
(01:05:55):
engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our
theme song is by Kyle Mooreton of Typhoon. You can
follow us on Instagram at Podmeets World Show or email
us at podmeetsworldshowat gmail dot com.
So I was having this conversation with my wife the
other day and I don't know why this pops up,
but Susan, Susan, my wife, we were talking about, what's
your favorite word.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Oh, melifluous. I don't get to say it often, but
I love the word melifluous.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I love the word transcendent.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I like usurp. Oh really, yeah, I'm a bit like.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
I love them.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
But the sound itself, I love it all.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I don't know if it's it's and it's so on
a monopoetically incorrect for what it is it's meant for,
but it's so great.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
So one of my one of my favorite words for
the meaning is synesthesia.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh I don't know what that means.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's when you experience one sense with another. So in
other words, see music like the idea of like see like,
and some people have it actually as a brand and
then they close their eyes and they can actually see
color or hear colors or you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I think you can take color.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I love the way it sounds like. And then also
just you know, the meaning of the word is so cool.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So that's a great run. I feel like I got
my love of words because I do love words. I
just started following Merriam Webster the Dictionary. I just started
following the Dictionary on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know, it's not really the Dictionary that's instagramming their stuff.
There's somebody that's the Dictionary.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, guys, it's the book. It's the book. I've seen it. Okay,
it's very it's I love words, and I will I
will again. Credit to David Combs. David, David, he had
such a vocabulary and and I mean involving calls froom
as we've discussed all it's such a vocabulary and and
(02:06):
just finding like great words to describe things. It was
so important. And you learn it too, if you enjoy
if you enjoy school and you work hard on your papers,
and you find you have to come up with, you know,
good words, and there's so many out there. And yet
you also want to find the fine line between like,
I don't want to sound pompous. I don't want to
(02:26):
sound like.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Sound about the pretentious person in the world.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Yes, you have to.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Like no, I love good vocabularies, and it's so fortunate
that people don't use it enough. Like I feel like
we all use so many simple words when we could
have better ones. I love experience. And what's cool is
that it's one of those things that does get better
with age, Like yeah, your vocabulary, just like my vocabulary
just keeps getting bigger. And I love that, like you know,
and and yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I was I was listening to a podcast this weekend
about William shap It's it's all the things in history
that are myths that you know, are kind of debunked.
And one of them, you know, the little famous one
is did Shakespeare write his own plays? But one of
the things they talk about is William Shakespeare apparently invented
over twelve hundred words.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh yeah, oh something like of his vocabulary, of his
his words were made up.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Made come up and have become just part of the lexicon.
I mean, that's amazing, amazing. So that's why I think
all the time we keep I keep trying to invent
words on this podcast, hoping just one of them will stick.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We could still try to get strafty bright Man.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
We just drafty bright could work.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
We could using tage now instead of montage, but that's
just like delish, we know it, that's all.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Where we use Jackting, I can't no jacket and I
think do.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You use facting when you were talking about face acting?
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yes, that's the other one. I'm a good factor, so you're.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
A good factor, and I can't. I'm a I'm an
I cannot jactor.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Abelia Shakespeare, William Fredell, similar.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm rather strong,
and I'm Wilfredell or William Shakespeare Fordell or William Shakespeare.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I wrote all of my own plays.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So we have commonly referred to this show as more
than just a podcast, because it also sometimes doubles as
a therapy session, and not just when we had a
real therapist on. Many of the things we've remembered or
the memories we've unlocked have led us into our own journeys,
both on the air and off, unpacking a childhood that
may have been seen on TV, but also had its
(04:47):
own set of private issues and puberty laced confusion. And
nothing from Pod Meats World has displayed this therapeutic side
effect more than recalling the day I was cast as
to Panga Lawrence, a moment that would change my life forever.
I have told that story for thirty years. I had
previously only focused on the aspirational angle, the unbelievable tale
(05:09):
of going from a character in the background to center
stage within just minutes the long night my mom and
I put into nailing Michael's notes, and it was my
story of success and the origin of my Hollywood career,
something that I am still lucky enough to have now
as a director. But it was my adulthood and now
also having children of my own, that allowed me to
(05:30):
realize recently it wasn't just my story. There was somebody
else in that story who shaped the rest of their life.
There was the original topanga. Her name, Bonnie Morgan, went
in and out of my memory for the past thirty years,
either consciously or subconsciously, I don't know. She was part
of this story I retold on TV and on the radio,
(05:52):
and in my book and really anywhere that asked me,
But I never thought about what it must have meant
to her, and if I was forcing her to relive
a hard time in her young career. I didn't know.
So when writer recently recognized her sister during a rewatch,
also a child actress who appeared on Boy Meets World,
you heard me in real time announce that I wanted
to speak to Bonnie because our lives have been so
(06:15):
connected and yet we have never spoken. So I was
able to get in touch with her and we had
a meaningful and beautiful conversation that lasted well over an hour,
and she very graciously agreed to come on the podcast.
And so today I am genuinely honored to introduce to
(06:37):
our audience for this week's Pod Meets World someone I
know you're going to love, actress and contortionist Bonnie Morgan. Welcome, Bonnie.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Good gosh, this is a room I never thought I'd
be sitting in.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Right. Bonnie, we recently spoke on the phone in a
conversation that I truly chair and have thought of many
many times since we spoke. And before we get into
what you remember about your time on Boy Meets World,
I wanted to talk about your family and how you
started in the industry.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
I am third generation vaudeville. My grandma opened for Frank
Sinatra in nineteen forty two in his Bobby Socks tour.
She was regularly requested by Jimmy Duranty. My grandparents were
swing and sway with Morgan and May, and they were
(07:35):
wow a soft shoe, jitterbug acro duo. My gosh, did
us so very cool people. They had my father, the
little scamp Gary Morgan, and had to come off the
road like many do, to seek a normal life. Their
version of a normal life was to open a dancing
(07:56):
school in Pasac, New Jersey. Hmm. And my dad became
a Broadway brat. He was a child star on Broadway.
He worked with Olivia de Haviland, oh Man, Henry Fonda,
Lillian Gish, I mean.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah ah.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
The man knows his history.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
And like many, sought his fame and fortune in California.
So he picked his jew fro, put on a top hat,
got in his Volkswagon bus with a surfboard on the roof,
and drove to California. Now we're more or less circus spolk.
Our idea of a straight job is a center ring,
(08:44):
still walking, trampoline, rolling globe, tight wire, high wire, low wire,
anything acrobatic that's like, that's your day job. Really so
my dad, My gosh, my dad is also a horror icon.
He doubled the dog in Kujo.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I mean that is coraz.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
My dad did all the attack scenes with Dee Wallace,
and any So anytime you see the dog attacking, some
of the dog's attacking trainer, whenever you see an actor
being attacked, it's my father in a suit, going, that's
my dad. So great. My aunt Robbie was Jason's first
(09:32):
victim in Friday the thirteenth. You know, the little hitchhiker, Hi,
can we go to Camp Cristal Lake, the one that
gets her throat foot on the tree. My aunt Robbie. Wow,
my dad was Billy and Logan's Run No Way. He
screen tested for Luke Skywalker because of that. Oh, my
(09:55):
dad had two screen tests with George Lucas.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
But my dad was didn't quite have that fresh faced
you know country boy. Look, he's a little more han
solo mischievous.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
So wow.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
It was also the first Frangie that you saw in
Star Trek.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Really really, we're we're speaking my language.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
Wow. Oh, talk nerdy to me, man.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Exactly, that's how I am. That's how I am. Oh man, Oh,
that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So I mean, as you guys, as you can tell,
like truly, it never ends. She has story like this
after story like this, after story like this. It's incredible
and so I think it's probably when you started acting.
Did you basically walk out of the womb as an actress.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
I always say I came to an age of reason
with a sad card and a pension, right, like right?
Like really? On Facebook you're like, you know, oh, my
first head shot, I'm like, hmm yep, nope, like.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Herber stuff, right, that's called a baby picture literally gerber sheets.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
And again it was the family business. We always joke
whenever one of our cousins has a baby nine months old,
not that much job.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yet, like.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
This is normal for us. I think the only way
to disappoint my father is if one of us had
become a CPA. Right, that's not a joke. So if
you're ever looking for a fun read, La Weekly did
a piece called the Fabulous Flying Morgans. It's a fun read.
(11:34):
Star Forman did all the artwork. It's it's photos of
are the blue pastel in Laurel Canyon. So literally, I
was raised by hippies and Laurel Canyon. My parents met
at a Hollywood party. Before she met my dad, my
mom was living with hal Ashby, whoa. She was Ruth
(11:57):
Gordon's like stand in stunt double for Harold and Maude,
a few other movies. So like literally Hip be Chick,
Hip Bee guy hurtying in the canyon. This is my life.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well that's a perfect segue.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Into that's exactly why.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What do you remember about auditioning for Boy Meets World?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
So crazy thing that my parents got married into Panga Canyon.
I got a call from my agent. I was working
a lot as a kid at this point. I was
an Oscar Mayer Wiener kid. I was. I did a
lot of commercials. I was on The Nanny, I was
(12:46):
on Life Goes On. I had just done Blossom. Yeah,
as like a tech nerd in jail, and I had
a lot of auditions for a show called The Torkul Sins. Okay, yes,
playing Ruthan.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
So I'm Michael Jacobs.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
I've been seen for that many times in many incarnations
of the show, it seemed. So I get a call
from my agent that was like this is weird, Like
she's like I would normally say, you could get this,
but it's it's like it was written for you. Like
you don't hear that a lot. I mean, I mean,
(13:26):
look at me. You don't hear that a lot, especially
as a kid and the thing is as an actor, kid,
The Brass Ring is a series. You know, when can
I get a pony? When you get a series? What
everything in your life is going to happen when you
get a series? Yeah, long running syndication, all words that
(13:51):
you know, So I get the sides and and it's weird.
It's it's stuff that I I know, it's stuff in
my life. I'm reading this going this is easy. First
call really, casting directors look at me like, wow, I
(14:12):
you know what, Let's just try it this way just
for fun. Wow, okay, we thank you for coming in.
Now here's where it gets a little weird. I had
three callbacks. They kept bringing me back, and I have
I have a hyper thymusic memory. I remember what I
wore to the audition. I remember the French doors in
(14:36):
the office for one of the meetings on the lot
so and it was rooms full of people every time.
And weirdly, every time i'd audition, we'd talk a lot.
I'm a luquacious felure and every time I'd come back,
the script would change slightly. It seemed to that we
(15:00):
had talked about And I have a lot of strange
side abilities from contortion to animal calls. By the time
I had this audition, I'd already done two full productions
of Midsummer Night's Dream, one of which I went on
(15:20):
for Puck at eleven.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
So the whole humpback whales so pale with the I had,
like I knew how to do the makeup for that.
I was like describing the geometric patterns that would be
exciting for that scene. They kept bringing me back, though,
which was strange, and one time I even left the
(15:45):
building and someone chased me down in the party lite. Hey,
could you come back? We want to try something else.
We want to give you a different script. You want
to the what do you call it? A The Men
Underground scene made it into the audition.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Okay, right, like.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
All of it so, and it was even my parents
were going, what's up, something's up? And I got a
call from my agent that said there's a power struggle
and Bonnie stuck in the middle of it. The creator
loves her. And every time someone tees like it's like
(16:24):
it was written for you. Yeah, it's like it was
written for you. My mom grew kombucha mushrooms in our
kitchen right literally, So finally it came down. You got it,
Michael Won, I didn't know that you could get fired.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
What seems like in some ways Michael was writing the
part for you. Yeah you know, I mean if you
had auditioned for Toko since because I mean, I know
he kept track of Like the reason I auditioned for
Boy Meets World is because my brother had audition had
come close on another. So he like kept track of
actors and he remembered people that he would read with
and work with. So it seems like the character of
Topanga was essentially written for you. Around you.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
It would make sense because we did talk a lot,
I mean more so than now. Anytime you had like
a significant audition, you talk to people. They want to
know who you are, what you are, what does your
mom do? What does your dad do?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Okay, so you get this call, there's a power struggle.
The creator loves you, and then you get the call.
You've got the part.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
You are to Panga. Even the name, even the name
was out of my parents' love story history. It was.
It was the coolest thing ever. And what's more, I mean,
you were all kid actors. You would audition for things
that you were like, I don't know what to do
(17:53):
with this. I mean, I'll go in. I'll sometimes it
was so off, you'd get coaching because you had to
make something out. Even as a kid, this.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Was just easy, and you think that's it. I got
it that you don't know that you could be fired.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
I didn't know that was even possible. So I come
to set and it was the weirdest day of my life,
even as a kid. I was like, what's going on here? Weird?
I remember what I was wearing too. I know you
(18:34):
can't imagine this. I was a bit of an odd kid. Now.
Tapanga was originally written as a quirky girl, an outlandish
hippie flower child. Yes, and quirky was the main word.
So I came in and all the adults were very
short with me. I went to wardrobe and I had
(18:58):
a duffel bag of all of my stuff, all of
my mom's batiqued clothing from the Renaissance there and all
of that. And she looked at the bag and looked
at me like just I couldn't describe it at the time.
I know what it was now, but at the time,
(19:19):
I like, I went to open the bag, She's like,
leave that in the corner. All right, okay. So she
fitted me in this strange what I could only describe
as a sweatshirt dress aka sweatshirt dress. Like, well, that's
(19:40):
not very hippie, like it doesn't matter. H humhm. Like
they put me in very frumpy, strange wardrobe and wouldn't
look at my stuff. They're like, you know what, just go,
we'll do this later. Okay. Weird. So the table read
was great, fun, it was all there. It was couldn't
(20:05):
have gone better with everyone around. The minute I was
separated out, it was another story. So now we're blocking
and Ben started kind of poking at me a little bit.
He would make faces and try to break me, and
(20:25):
it worked. At this point, I was becoming a nervous wreck.
I couldn't get his name. The opening line, Corey, I
would like, beffaw Corey. And David was just like, get
it tag together, and I'm trying to pull it together.
And I pulled it together in sheer fear, and Ben
just kept kept doing this thing to.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Crack and you were breaking. You were giggling and breaking
and giggling.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Another strange fact is that my dad was not on
set with me that day. My dad was almost always
on set with me. Actually on big days it was
my mom, and my mom was much more. You know.
I would stay to the side. And I know that
(21:11):
Michael wasn't there that day, right, Michael wasn't there, My
dad wasn't there. Strange. And at one point I had
a line. It was a sweet line, and David went,
I want you to say it's sweeter peace.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I was like, I said peace, okay.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Okay, and uh he said, say it's sweeter. So I
said its sweeter. He went, no, I want you to
say it, and he got really close to me, like
you're saying up birthday. And I was. I was so
(21:58):
tiny at that moment, and I just said, Okay, I
really goes do it. I said. I thought he meant
during the take, he goes do it now, wish me
a happy birthday. And I took every bit of sacharin
(22:19):
in my body and just said happy birthday. Good, that's better.
I was. I was amazed and knew not what to say.
So and again, benk I would say that your hair
looks different, so upline. He would mock me. While I
(22:40):
was saying that. I would say a line and he'd
mock it back to me. And I think I went, mmmm,
what are you whoa hey, like, that's not cool. It
every step of the day, and we were gonna do
the kissing scene on the locker, but at that point
I was like, I'm just gonna stay away from him
till Wednesday, right, geez right, thinking I was, you know,
(23:06):
stand on my ground, making a good went back to wardrobe.
They were like, you just take your stuff home. It's like, oh, okay.
The people that were nice to me were nice. Everyone
who was lovely was lovely. But it was the strangest
day on set I had ever had. I went home
(23:28):
and knew nothing. I did not know what was happening
that day.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Of course, so this is this is our Friday. You're
very the very first day. You probably arrived to set
around seven or eight. For school, we would have had
our table read at nine. Rehearsal would have started pretty
much immediately after, and then the day is usually wrapped.
Like you, we were done for the day by four
or five o'clock. And so you're having this awkward, uncomfortable,
(23:58):
super strange day on set and you're probably thinking, well,
thank god, there's a weekend after this. I just get
to go home. Recoop, have a nice weekend, and I'll
be back on Monday to start fresh.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Well. And what's even funnier is even with that crazy day,
I was like, and Monday'll be even better, right, Monday
will be even better? Uh you know, I'll pull out
all my my btique tie dyed boardroom that I have.
I had a whole thing, the humpback Whale. I was
(24:32):
gonna go full contortion on that scene in my audition.
I sat down, put both legs behind my head and
began doing pushups like my gosh, like a dolphin going
through a wave shape. Like I had a whole choreograph plan,
yoga centric bit to go with that. I was like,
(24:54):
when we all get it on our feet, it's gonna
be great, right, Jes. I had no clue.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And how old are you? Are you eleven or twelve?
We're about the same age, right, eighty one?
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Eighty one roughly? Okay, yeah, so you're twelve ish twelve?
Speaker 5 (25:15):
I was twelvesh Now, what's I remember it so very clearly?
I had no idea. I woke up the next morning
to celebrate. I made myself blueberry pancakes because I was
so grown up with the job now, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
I made blueberry pancakes and brought them up to my parents'
bedroom to sit and eat them. When the phone rang.
My dad picked up the phone. They're like, we're a
we're the kind of like hanging out, hanging out in
bed all day sort of it's Saturday. Yeah, the mom
and dad are totally just you know, chilling. Dad picks
(25:57):
up the phone and and he didn't wait to get
off the phone. He just said, what you're kidding? They
fired you? You're fired? What what? I left my pancakes,
(26:22):
ran into my room, took a blue blueberry smelling Markron
wrote the worst day of my life on my Hummingbird calendar.
What came out? Fortunately, I had been with my agent
a very long time. I'd been working with her a
very long time. The director said I couldn't take direction,
(26:47):
which is one thing I had never been accused of.
I was working a lot, and my agent immediately fought
back on that one. It's like, she can't take direction,
we have to fire or her.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, well, she's worked on this show and that show,
and this show and that show, and none of them
have ever said she can't take direction.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
And actually every director been like she takes she too
wonderfully like that. She even said that's a lie. What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
And because I always say corpse's float. There are no secrets,
especially in this industry. It came out very quickly to
my agent that the director didn't think I was pretty enough,
literally did not think I was pretty enough. So that
(27:45):
meant that a grown up, a man, a boss, would
could lie about me and tell me I was untalented
because the fact was he didn't think I was pretty. Wow.
Live with that, I'm taking away the thing you want
most in the world that was all but written for you. Yeah,
(28:07):
it's because you're not talented. Sorry, eyelied, It's just because
you're not pretty, right right?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And so when you hear this, we all know because
we've all been those twelve year olds who also operate
like adults. Do you take this with twelve year old
emotion or like, how does this affect you when you
hear it? Do you just like this this this professional
adult side kick in and you kind of muster up
(28:49):
the courage, or do you just emotionally break?
Speaker 5 (28:54):
I was shattered. I was shattered there. I don't know
a lot of adults that could handle that one.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
No way, no way, let.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
Let alone a quirky kid.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Emotional people.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Quirky in the nineties was also kind of code for nerdy, like.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Just weird, abnormal and different. Quirky was the positive spin
on the correct characteristics that were not considered great.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
I never knew who got the job until it aired.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Wow, And did you watch it then? When it aired?
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I watched the show exactly once in my life, and
it was that episode.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
There is a lot that goes on throughout that time.
But I had found out that that you and Marla
had auditioned over the weekend, which.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Was Friday night. To be exactly what you did.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
No, such a slap in the face to find out
that I was dead man walking.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, by that time you left on Friday, you were
already gone. I bet you.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
My theory is that they made the decision at the
table read. I bet you it was. The reason you
felt so awkward. Is that whoever was pushing against you,
whether that was David Traynor alone or someone at the
network or whatever, who decided they made that decision after
the table read, and then you were dead man walking
the entire day.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
That's my feeling. And that's why I haven't even a
bigger feeling than that I was dead before I ever
walked on that set. I truly believe that David Traynor
decided the minute the phone call was made that he
was going to get rid of that kid, come hell
or high water. And what a hell of a thing
(30:46):
to do to somebody. Yeah, I'm sure you all had
amazing experiences with him. He went on to do a
lot of great shows. Yeah, it makes me wonder why
didn't my second choice, Why wasn't there a backup?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Well, because I think, really, when when we take our
if we can get to a place where we can
completely take ourselves out of it. There was a power
struggle that had nothing to do with characters or topanga
or actors at all. It was a power struggle between
two adults who wanted power, period and the the we
(31:27):
were all just you know, yeah, I want to get
back to Bonnie. You and you're where you were at
that day. So you're just absolutely shattered. Your job has
been taken from you. This dream you thought you had
finally fulfilled. You were going to be this character on
the show that was going to be amazing. What's the
(31:49):
first thing you do. Your dad hangs up the phone,
and what's the first thing you do to like pick
up and move on from this situation.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Well, that's where it gets a little more interesting. At
the time, I had booked two series.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
When you got the role of Tapanga and I got
something else ya.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
When I got the role of Tapanga, I had also
booked a pilot and they both shot at the same time.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Oh no oh.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
I had to make a decision, a very hard decision
between a series regular role that was the exact character
I wanted to play, or the little sister on a
Nickelodeon pilot who was written like Doogie howser tough Call
(32:43):
pilot and it was really, you know, like bird in
the Hand is worth two in the Bush pilot might
not ago, and I was. I was gung ho for Tipanga,
but the grown ups were talking, the parents and the
agents were like wow, decision was made for that. So
while I'm know hugging Gone by Bed now, my parents
(33:05):
are trying to find the silver line, like, well, maybe
you can do the other show, which was such a
consolation prize because this was Nerd Glass of knee Socks
and Peter.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Pan collars because everything.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
So immediately my scheme goes in damage control to get
that back, and miraculously they did. They got it back,
so I didn't have a chance to wallow, and I
wanted to waller. Oh my pity party was going to
(33:48):
be amazing. There were going to be tea cakes and everything.
How you have a job to do, and you're going
to do that job because that's what we do. If
you hear strange screeching, it's because I have a cockatoo
in the other room.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Who was going to say, do you have a food? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Yes, I have a small menagerie at my house. And
the kind of it is a let me know if
it's a too invasive in the sound process.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, maybe your cockatoo is something he'd like to say
to me.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
He will, he will make sweet Casanova bird love too, Sweetie.
I'll go get him in a minute.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Okay, great.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
So this show was about a girl who gets doused
with a nuclear waste or something and she gets superpowers,
and like that was really the cool rule that once
again went to the pretty girl. Now I hate to
use that term so much because I'm in no way
(34:48):
disparaging myself, but every generation has their ideal of beauty,
if you will. Sure in the nineties it was Alyssa Milano.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Mm hmmm, it was that type.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Right now it's Anya Taylor Joy or Ananta Sea Freed. Like.
That's not to say that others aren't beautiful, but when
you have Charlie's their own as your measure of beauty,
I am not a common looking that, especially for the nineties.
(35:25):
So there's the girl covered in nuclear waste who's suddenly
moving things with her mind, and I'm the nerdy doogie
howser MD type genius who has already graduated college and
is sort of her sidekick, almost little sister, but helping
her navigate her powers. A lot of big words, yeah right, Yeah,
(35:47):
a lot of big words in that script. So I
went from one to the next, and I am just
trying to keep it together and not talk about it, right,
because you're not supposed to talk about.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
It, right. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
Really, I do have to go back just a little bit, though,
because you definitely had something to add because as viciously
as I was treated by David, who was championing a
(36:24):
different look which he cast, he cast that look, he
had a type. You and Marla were definitely on the
same call sheet looking wise. Yes, So he had his
ideal replacements on deck in lesser roles. So the minute
(36:44):
I walked off that set, those two were ushered into network.
And I understand that you had an equally terrible experience
with my champion, Michael.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah on that Yeah. So Friday was your brutal day
and David was hard on you. And I thought it
was very interesting that you really remembered that cafeteria scene
where you had to say peace, because I remember that
scene and watching David work with you, and I remember
(37:18):
hearing David say, no, Sweeter, it's peace. It's not peace,
it's peace, and I remained in my voice. Yeah, you know,
Michael loves your voice. Michael is my whole life. Michael
told me, lower your voice, lower your voice the register
(37:40):
I needed your Michael wanted me to have your voice,
and David wanted you to say peace. And so you
had that day Friday, Hary Willow.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Yeah, I believe, and.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know, and I then went to work on Monday
as the new to pay and had a perfectly fine
day with David. Went all day rehearsal. Think it's great,
I've got it. This feels good, and then I did
the run through, and at the end of that run through,
Michael did in front of everybody what David had done
(38:17):
to you in front of everybody on Friday.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Can I ask, was a male actor ever treated like that?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I can't think of a single time when a male
actor on our show was treated like that?
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Can anybody else?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
No? I mean kids were fired, right, We had multiple
sh but they weren't fired.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
They weren't called out in front of everybody and then fired.
They just weren't there again.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
It seemed like it seemed like this was for some reason.
If you were a girl, I'm going to wreck you
in front of everybody.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Whoever. I've weirdly been on other sets observing when one,
let's just say one mogul champions one person and another
logal champions and other so they'll like take turns, and
this happens when time's up. Happened it was time. They'll
(39:08):
take turns, like abusing the other one's favorite if you will, like, well,
I'm gonna yell at yours and like beat them down.
It's like, oh, you want to yell at mine, I'll
yell at yours. And I've watched it obvious when it
happens and it's like, wow, it's alive and well, isn't it.
(39:28):
But even in my episode, the hair straightening serum was
from another actor, a young actor, and I remember the doves.
Rochelle says, it was.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
All about I will and yeah, I had a tiny
part that week until.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
When finally came to Fruition, he was gone too. It
was like they cleaned house and all of a sudden,
Stacey said said, geez, so.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
But I want I mean, I don't. Maybe it didn't
bring you the same comfort it brought me, But it
was so interesting when Bonnie and I were on the
phone and first of all, just for her and I
to connect as just woman to woman, but then also
actor to actor, and all this time between the two
(40:23):
of us, and yet our lives have we have in
my mind, I mean, Bonnie and I are like this,
and yet we've had all this time, but are are
no Our stories are inextricably flinked, and yet we have
had all the space. And to hear what she what
(40:48):
from her POV and her perspective and what she went through,
and then to have it go all the light bulbs
went off for me that, oh that that that note
session had nothing to do with me. It had nothing
to do with my performance. And guess what, everything Bonnie
had happened, everything that went through there had nothing to
do with Bonnie, had nothing to do with her looks,
(41:08):
had nothing to do with her performance, had nothing to
do with her. It was another storyline that was playing
out behind the scenes, and we were just characters in
the play. And we never would have known that had
we not talked.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
But what I told you too, which got even a
little weirder, was this is really, this is the thing
that doesn't go away in my life. Very weirdly, it
keeps rearing its head no matter how much I get
past it, Like really, it just keeps showing up. Yeah,
(41:51):
I have to back up one more time too. When
I saw the show, I realized because I had found
out all of that, and I saw the Barbie Mettell
Girl a literal doll as Topanga, and it was like, oh,
(42:13):
it was the only time I would ever watch the
show because I was not about torturing myself, which is
probably healthy, and it was a hard show to avoid really,
so the one time I did see it was very
hard and I had to just and it's hard not
(42:36):
to become a bitter twelve year old.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, z, you don't want to be that.
Speaker 5 (42:41):
So in the meantime, the show The Secret World of
Alex Mack gets picked up by Nickelodeon. Yes, and I
get a letter in the mail how wonderful you were
in the pilot and how much energy you brought. However,
(43:01):
that network has decided it would serve the show better
to have an older sister as Dianer sixteen. So better
luck next time.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Geez.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
So I have now lost both series, which was again
the hits came so hard and so fast, and again
they had nothing to do with me. And finally someone
(43:36):
from Alex Matt Colden said it was a conflict. We
couldn't have Doogie Howser on the show with So now
time March is on. My sister and I are both actors.
Molly was on Full House actually for several episodes as Mickey,
(43:56):
the girl that gets Stephanie to smoke. All of them
had bad noir, Big Sister. So now I get word
from the and everyone knows this is a touchy subject.
Molly has an audition for Boyet's World.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah. It's about a year later, because it's season two.
Speaker 5 (44:14):
Yeah, it's about a year later. And Mollie actually did
two episodes and it was a very small part. And
I was like, no, absolutely not but professional small role.
This is not how we do things. So Molly auditioned.
Of course, she booked it. Mollie was a wonderful actress,
(44:37):
all of those things. She books it, and then the
character recurs, and then the character recurs, and it was
very happy for her, very hard. This is still really fresh.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
And what's more is we didn't think they knew she
was my sister. We didn't know how much of a
scourge I was on set, so we really didn't want
anyone to know right that we were related, that she
had anything to do with me, because we didn't want
(45:14):
her to get fired too.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
So there she is on set. And what's strange is
I was always the contortionist, all of that, and Molly
had also figured out how to pop hers. Not quite
the same, but apparently everyone on set had been talking
(45:37):
about party tricks or strange things, and Molly, without thinking,
pulled it out. And she.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Even said the.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
Minute she did it, and I was like, hey, you
know who you look like? And she went, oh, no,
oh no. So Molly pulled you aside and confided it
to you. And that was kind of a big deal
(46:09):
for her to do, because, look, she trusted you to
tell you that. At that point, she was probably a
little scared she might get found out or fired. So
insult to injury comes. It's tape day and the family's like,
you should go and support your sister.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Wow, so do you.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
I had to put on my big girl panties this
show that day.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Good four there.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
And showed up and I sat in that audience and
when the warm up, guys like, does anyone have any
special talents that they want to show off to our
studio audience. I had so many T shirts from all
my friends shows Growing Pains. I had a T shirt
from every show that I got up and entertained on.
I didn't get up. I sat there and watched and
(47:05):
at the end of the show, Cast takes a bow
and Molly weaves the family down setting foot on that set.
Really like my toes curled when I walked like past
audience land onto that set. It was just like yeah
and cast, yeah, and everyone was really nice to me.
(47:32):
Everyone was really nice, and it was kind of awkward.
And I didn't know this. My dad said that David
came in from the corner and clocked me and saw me,
and he said the look on his face was just
he said, he just gave a look to you. And
Dad looked at him like, hey, man, gave him a
(47:54):
total hay Man look. And he said that it was
a look of I don't know if it was Contricia Gilt,
but it was like right, it was a definite look.
And weirdly, weirdly, I ran into the rider. I don't
know if you remember this where when I was doing
Shakespeare in northern California. I think I may have been
(48:18):
doing Midsummer again. This time I was playing Puck and
Molly was there, and we were at the Burbank Airport.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Writer's favorite face Home away from Home.
Speaker 5 (48:29):
You were walking through and again you're walking through. I
was sitting with a man named David Springhorn who was
playing bottom genius actor, and I just he goes, well,
you look like you just saw a ghost and you
saw my sister and you were like me and you
(48:51):
two sat down and Molly like pointed me like you
got like hey, hi, and you do. I think our
was delayed because we had a lot of time, and
I sat and told bottom David Springhorn the story of
what happened, and he looked at it was like, well,
(49:14):
aren't you just the little survivor? Yeah, because because I
didn't leave, I stayed in this business. This destroyed me
at the time. Make no mistake, this was probably one
of the more defining experiences of my life. But it's
(49:36):
one of severe perseverance. I did not let it take
me out of of my life.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
And so over the years, have you ever shared this
story publicly with as many times as you've been interviewed
with as an illustrious this is a of a career
as you have had. Have you ever when somebody asks you,
what's a little tidbit about you that nobody knows? Have
you ever shared this story publicly?
Speaker 5 (50:09):
Never? Once? Never? Once? And I'm asked a lot tell
me something that nobody knows about you, and this is
always that thing. It's like a dirty little industry secret.
And I haven't said it for a lot of reasons.
Number One, I don't want to disrespect you, Danielle. Really,
(50:32):
you were on that show a long time. You are
an icon of that day, and who am I to
take anything away? From you. Really, even if as a
child I felt something had been taken away from me,
I didn't think it would do me any good to
(50:53):
stand up and say even come across as that was
not like right, Really it didn't matter by then. And
what's more, I didn't know if that was ever public.
I know I read once, because unfortunately, when something happens
to you, even if you break up with someone, people
(51:16):
feel the need to keep tabs for you. Exactly broken
up with so they're like, hey, so she's dating someone new,
and you're.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Exactly, that's nice. I didn't want to know her.
Speaker 5 (51:29):
So people would send me articles even as a kid, Oh,
this was the worst. As a kid, people go, hey,
so there's this new character on this show. Did you
audition for that? I mean, it's like it was written
for you. I got that for the first three seasons
of Brains, like oh my gosh, and don't you live
(51:52):
into Panga Canyon. I'm like yeah, So, like a very
few people knew about it, and those who did would
like send me articles like hey, she said she wasn't
the first choice. Why don't you get up? And I'm
like no, thank you, yeah, thank you. And then years
(52:17):
past and then Girl Meets World came up. I was like, Oh, holy, how.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
Did this show die with the nineties?
Speaker 5 (52:28):
Come on, maybe it'll work on it. I was like,
Oh good, let's just reignite that old flame. Wow.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
No.
Speaker 5 (52:41):
I also wasn't sure if I would be disavowed if
I said so. You never know. I can't imagine how
Eric Stoltz felt Back to the Future. He filmed for
like two or three weeks and they went it's just
not working. I don't know if he ever broke it
(53:04):
or if that's just something that's come out in recent decades. Yeah,
because make no misp, I don't know what that is.
Everyone has been fired anyone who has lasted in this
town for any amount of time, director, producer, writer, is
(53:25):
specially actors. Everyone has been fired or replaced for one
reason or another.
Speaker 4 (53:32):
Yes, yep, absolutely true.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
So this is not a unique story. But again, I
would hate to say something to Fangoria or to one
of those and have it be fact checked and have
Disney disavow right or have you called out of the blue, hey,
so this person is saying that they are and put
(53:57):
you in that position.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Well, and again, because we hadn't spoken, you didn't know
how I what I knew about you or how I
felt about you, and I've never known how you felt
about me, And so I do I have to ask,
was there at twelve when this whole thing happened and
you then watched the episode and find out it was me?
Did you ever hate me? Did you ever think like
(54:21):
that girl?
Speaker 5 (54:22):
Oh? Of course, yeah, I am not going to lie,
and I was the bigger man about this, right. Well,
what's more is what you don't know as a kid
is that you had nothing to do with it, is
that someone else was going to have that role because
(54:44):
at that point it was going to be anyone but
me because there were too many egos involved in it. Yeah,
my victory was to be short lived because someone didn't
want that guy to win. So absolutely, when I turned
on the TV and saw literally Barbie the prettiest girl,
(55:09):
a literal model you were. You were literally on Barbie
commercials like you and Barbie next to each other, it
was like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Gosh, that was the live action skipper.
Speaker 5 (55:23):
That's who they got and it was not me. So yes,
of course, for a long time it was like she
took it from me, but you were not in the
corner conniving and conspiring. No, the seat was open and
you were ushered into it.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah. Well, and to touch on, like you said, the
story of perseverance, I mean the career you have had
after Boy Meets World. It was like a Boy Meets
World was a blip on your radar. I mean, you
are Samara in the Ring mov franchise, You come out
of the TV. You have been in tons of things,
Minority Report, Criminal Minds, you did three episodes of a
(56:08):
Series of Unfortunate Events, three episodes of Ant Farm, Shamelets,
the Muppets, stunt performances, and over thirty projects. Your career
has You have an incredible career anybody would die for.
And I just our phone conversation was so I don't
know if I could ever put to words how it
(56:30):
felt for the two of us on that phone call
to have connected after all this time and to have
shared the things that we shared. And looking back now
a full thirty years later, how do you feel about
your experience on Boy Meets World and how it has
shaped your life over this time and the fact that
(56:53):
now here we are sitting here together.
Speaker 5 (56:56):
Goodness, it was not a good experience. I'm not going
to sugarcoat it and say that it was. It was
a hard lesson in the real world of the business
be chosen. But as they said in The Godfather, we've
chosen this business. No one put a gun to our head,
and you choose to stay in it as far as
(57:19):
it goes. I do get to say in my own head,
in my own world that I did get that role.
The ways and the reasons it was taken well, that
was outside of my control. But really one thing that
(57:41):
kind of cracks me up that we joke about is
I became the monster that the pretty girls are scared of.
I'm the thing in the dark that will scare your
children and your boyfriends wherever. Though I have lived on
(58:04):
I've lived a life that I don't know that I
would have lived had I been to Pangolorence on boy
Meet's World. In my life, I opened for Paul McCartney.
I toured with Sir Paul McCartney for ten weeks and
stood on stage with him and took a bow every night.
(58:30):
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Yeah, I've
seen attack ships off the shoulder of Orion. In my life,
I have ridden horses with my dad to the foot
of the Pyramids at sunset and sipped tea in a
Bedouin outpost. Cool. I have lived a crazy, adventurous life.
(58:54):
I have ridden wire rigs that frankly, only a handful
of people and mostly from the Matrix movies, have ever ridden.
I have safeguarded other children on sets. Yeah, that couldn't
speak up for themselves, or stand for themselves, or fall
(59:16):
down for themselves. I am one of five women who
can say they were a Terminator.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Hm.
Speaker 5 (59:27):
I'm actually in the legacy of the Terminators series. I
was one of the female Terminators. Really, I would love
to have met the girl that went on that show.
I really would. But I had had adventures that I
(59:48):
think my life took me so far beyond that, beyond
being a kid on a series.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Yeah, in that sense, you know, that's exactly right. I
just thank you so much for being willing, for the
first time ever to come out here and share your
story with us and share your experience with our listeners.
(01:00:16):
I also would like to make it clear I did
not coerce you in any way into doing this. I
said to you when I first called you, I said,
if nothing else, all I care about, truthfully, was that
you and I got to have a conversation and with that,
if you wanted to share your story publicly and to
share your life and to share your story with the public,
(01:00:39):
then I wanted to give you that platform. However, if
you're if you were, if you never wanted that, I
was never going to force you to do it. What
was most important to me was that we got to
have the conversation that we had, and the very first
when I said, do you have any desire in coming
on and sharing your story and you said I will,
I will do it. I would like to do it.
(01:01:00):
And I know that it took courage and I know
it took bravery. And I am so eternally grateful for
you and to you for not only coming on here
and sharing your story with everyone, but just for accepting
that phone call on that random Tuesday and for talking
to me. And you know, just.
Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
Daniel, you're lovely, You are lovely. It couldn't have happened
to a nicer person, really, So thank you for being
kind and open and really being just so lovely about
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Thank you, Bonnie. It really means a lot to us.
So ah, thank you. This has been a nice one.
It's it's just a really beautiful full circle moment for me.
So I appreciate you so much.
Speaker 5 (01:01:51):
And are you thank thank you for talking about it,
because my gosh, this has been like the dark industry
secret in my life. Wow. And I have gone on
to other strange and wonderful things, but this is not
something that's ever come out.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
So yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
I was so good to see you everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Bye bye. Oh wow. What a life, what a career,
what a story.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Is just a total class act, just so classy about
the entire thing, the situation back then. I'm coming to
the show with her sister to support her sister after.
Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
What she went through.
Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
That is so intense at thirteen years old. She would
have been there a thirteen years old ago, a year ago.
My entire life feels ripped out from under me.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yep, crushed, and I'm now going I'm going to go
set back back to that set, same directors, same people there,
see those people sister she.
Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Was describing the secret world of alex Mack was like,
is she talking about secret world of Alexis's show? And
then it was like right, which was also Nitania's show, right,
like ended up being the sidekick. So what in a
yeah world of Yeah, like she's man, she's super classy,
so classy, can't you know? Yeah, I mean in a
(01:03:27):
weird way.
Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
It couldn't have happened.
Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
I mean, it's it's she was lucky that she had
to show biz family, do you know what I mean? Like,
could help her be resilient about this, because if you didn't,
you know, like I don't know about the other kids
who were fired off of our show, what their experiences
were like moving forward, you know, if any of them continued,
and and you know the fact that she was able
to stick it out, yeah, god, I.
Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Mean, and even the fact that her parents made her
do the hard thing and were like, you should go
support your sister. You know, they probably knew better than
she did that staying away from the set was only
building it up to be this big, horrible, scary monster. Yeah,
that once she actually went there, it would give her,
you know, probably a sense of comfort.
Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
This is our family, this is our business, this is
what we do. There's good times, there's bad times, and
the bad times can be really bad, and the good times.
Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
Can be amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
And that's the same. There's the highs and lows in
this business are insane.
Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
And we have we have both of them to talk
about all of us. You know, we all have those
horrible lows and we have those extreme highs, and yet
you know, thankfully for most of us, we go, you
know what, it's all worth it, and we and we
love what we do, and you know, it's just yeah,
it's just amazing. So anyway, I I just my conversation
(01:04:45):
with her was just even you know this it was
it was better than this was because it was intimate.
It was just the two of us learning of these
things about each other and sharing our experiences, and it
felt like there were just men's like men, little little
patches to spots on our heart and in our soul
that needed patching. And so I'm so glad that she
(01:05:07):
agreed to come on and share just share her life
with all of you, because she's so special and so
classy and so yeah, thank you, as always everyone for
following along with this episode of Pod Meets World. As always,
you can follow us on Instagram pod meets World Show.
You can email us pod meets Worldshow at gmail dot com.
And we have merch.
Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Merchandise I try to do it classy.
Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
I like its Bonnie classy great.
Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
Thank you for Bonnie, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I will send us out this time. We love you all,
pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced
and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Wright Strong Executive producers,
Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production,
Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Jackie Rodriguez,
(01:05:55):
engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our
theme song is by Kyle Mooreton of Typhoon. You can
follow us on Instagram at Podmeets World Show or email
us at podmeetsworldshowat gmail dot com.
Hosts And Creators
Will Friedle
Danielle Fishel
Rider Strong
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